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  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    Mr. D, my view exactly.

    Mr. Llama, will you be putting on your cricket box before telling her that? :p
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,862
    RIP Jo Cox

    Sad day indeed
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    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    For democracy now to flourish and in acknowledgement that Jo Cox was elected for a full term i sincerely hope that all the other parties will not put candidates up at the byelection that will now sadly take place.
    That would be a fitting cross party response.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    To be honest unless this guy was pictured with his arm round farage or something I dont think it is relevant.

    Britain First is little to do with the EU and leaving would likely bring in more of their non preferred guests not less.

    Those trying to link the referendum to it will be judged harshly by the public I expect

    Thats right I doubt they would prefer pakistani doctors to polish plumbers.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,968
    MaxPB said:

    Can he be tried for treason?

    I am confident he'll receive a whole life tariff.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Awful. No other words for it.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    It could be because I've had a few, but I feel both sadness and utter fury at those who would commit such acts of violence. I want the perpetrator eliminated.
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,546
    I'm totally stunned by this. This has really got to me, and I only knew her name until lunchtime. What a terrible price to pay for serving her area. Please please let this lead to more understanding, more thinking and less shouting and aggression in our politics. I dread to think how her family are feeling RIP
  • Options
    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Apart from Airey Neave when was the last time something like this took place?
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited June 2016
    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Can he be tried for treason?

    I am confident he'll receive a whole life tariff.
    Maybe, maybe not. Could just as easily be banged up in Broadmoor. I don't think a prison sentence is passed in those cases (happy to be corrected).
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    Mr. Max, there's no capital punishment for treason (or any other crime). When Jack Straw was Home Secretary, Labour ended that.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,454
    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Moses_ said:

    FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point

    "Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."

    Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory

    Just saying

    I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?

    Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
    Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:

    "Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
    Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."

    Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
    Vote Remain or the Gibs get it?

    Charming ;)
    It's the view in Gibraltar.....

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/the-rock-of-remain-why-gibraltar-is-rejecting-brexit

    But what would they know......
    I’m told, by people who have relatives there that the Gibraltarians are worried that Spain will use Britains exit as an excuse to put pressure on the Rock again.
    Correct - Rajoy repeated it today. There is real fear among expats generally in Spain - and wholly justified among those who are elderly and not rich enough to contemplate private health care.
    I have no sympathy for those who leech off the Spanish welfare state ans public services without ever having paid into the system. These expats (immigrants) should have to live by the same rules we want EU migrants to live by here. Pay into the system for a few years before qualifying for state assistance, including healthcare.
    The UK Government pays for them.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Can he be tried for treason?

    I am confident he'll receive a whole life tariff.
    That's a waste of prison resources on someone who doesn't deserve redemption.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited June 2016

    Scott_P said:

    @paul__johnson: Jo Cox's maiden speech to Parliament - on the benefits of immigration. 'We celebrate our diversity.'
    https://t.co/4U8Dhv9XdC

    Any side of this attempting to make political capital will pay for it - just as the Spanish Government did when they tried to turn the train bombings into anti separatist political capital.
    Sweden had a referundum on the euro, an MP in favour of joining was stabbed to death and No still won. People are much smarter than to make such connections.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,455
    edited June 2016
    timmo said:

    Apart from Airey Neave when was the last time something like this took place?

    Ian Gow 1990?
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,862
    Well done Mods.

    Some awful posts deleted
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClFI93FWQAEwqxY.jpg


    Can I have a request. Can other people please post this picture. It was taken yesterday by her husband and tweeted an hour or so ago- it is obviously how he wants her remembered. This image will stay with me for a long long time.
    RIP Jo
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited June 2016
    timmo said:

    Apart from Airey Neave when was the last time something like this took place?

    There was the attempted murder of Stephen Timms in 2010, and of course, the vile Brighton bombing which killed five and injured many others in 1984. At the moment I can't recall anything else similar, but I'll own to not thinking too clearly at present.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Deleted

    Cut a bit of the chicken off for Thomas :)
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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    timmo said:

    Apart from Airey Neave when was the last time something like this took place?

    Wasn't another northern Labour MP, a chap, attacked by a constituent with a knife in the past few years? Mercifully, he wasn't killed.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,968
    timmo said:

    For democracy now to flourish and in acknowledgement that Jo Cox was elected for a full term i sincerely hope that all the other parties will not put candidates up at the byelection that will now sadly take place.
    That would be a fitting cross party response.

    Although I am currently caught up emotionally in all this right now, I think it right that the other parties not contest the future election.

    Saying that, the by election following Ian Gow's murder was contested.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,968
    tyson said:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClFI93FWQAEwqxY.jpg


    Can I have a request. Can other people please post this picture. It was taken yesterday by her husband and tweeted an hour or so ago- it is obviously how he wants her remembered. This image will stay with me for a long long time.
    RIP Jo

    If I had twitter I would certainly retweet that in mark of respect. A lovely photo.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    timmo said:

    Apart from Airey Neave when was the last time something like this took place?

    Wasn't another northern Labour MP, a chap, attacked by a constituent with a knife in the past few years? Mercifully, he wasn't killed.
    Is Stephen Timms a northerner ?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    Mr. Rising, Stephen Timms (could be wrong, but I thought he was from London). Fortunately, he recovered.
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    LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    tyson said:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClFI93FWQAEwqxY.jpg


    Can I have a request. Can other people please post this picture. It was taken yesterday by her husband and tweeted an hour or so ago- it is obviously how he wants her remembered. This image will stay with me for a long long time.
    RIP Jo

    When I saw the wordless tweet with just that picture, I'm afraid I assumed at that point that she had died.

    RIP Jo Cox. Thoughts with her family, friends and colleagues.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,968

    timmo said:

    Apart from Airey Neave when was the last time something like this took place?

    Wasn't another northern Labour MP, a chap, attacked by a constituent with a knife in the past few years? Mercifully, he wasn't killed.
    Wasn't that Stephen Timms?
  • Options
    What terribly sad news. Her poor family.

    It just shows the very real risks involved with being in the public eye. Those of you who are politicos and campaigners: keep up the good work - democracy needs you - but please watch out for yourselves. Good luck to all of you.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited June 2016
    WTF. There is someone on Sky News claiming others may be involved and implying it is some weird conspiracy.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,968
    Pulpstar said:

    timmo said:

    Apart from Airey Neave when was the last time something like this took place?

    Wasn't another northern Labour MP, a chap, attacked by a constituent with a knife in the past few years? Mercifully, he wasn't killed.
    Is Stephen Timms a northerner ?
    East Ham.
  • Options
    GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Very very sad. I know little about her but from pictures she radiates a genuine warmth. I have also seen pictures of her husband and young children. How utterly terrible for them.

    The man who did this is an utter coward who has attacked our democracy as a whole. We are lucky enough in this country that our MPs are still contactable and do meet regular people. This man has harmed that.
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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    RobD said:

    timmo said:

    Apart from Airey Neave when was the last time something like this took place?

    Wasn't another northern Labour MP, a chap, attacked by a constituent with a knife in the past few years? Mercifully, he wasn't killed.
    Wasn't that Stephen Timms?
    Yes, you're right. Not northern then.
  • Options
    pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649

    Spain already puts huge pressure on Gibraltar to my knowledge. Being in the EU has not stopped that. Surely the solution is to have appropriate defence measures in place, and let the potential agressor know you're prepared to use them, not staying in the EU in the hope this will make them be a bit nicer. It's like giving a bully your lunch money.

    If we Leave, Spain remain's a NATO ally of ours.

    However, the real risk for Gibraltar is if the UK leaves the single market, given how the economy of the rock has evolved into financial services since the MoD massively scaled down its presence there from the late 80s onwards. I think the economy used to be 60% defence.

    Therefore, I think Gib would need to stay in the EEA, at least or be given massive support to become an offshore haven - like a European Caymans, for instance - with a global outlook.

    I don't know what the long term solution with Spain is. Inside or outside the EU they will continue to be a massive pain in the arse about it.
    Maybe they can have Gib back when they return Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    She was DOA, apparently.

    Very sad.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,819
    Terrible news. RIP.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,454
    How terribly sad. Rest in peace.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    DanSmith said:

    To be honest unless this guy was pictured with his arm round farage or something I dont think it is relevant.

    Britain First is little to do with the EU and leaving would likely bring in more of their non preferred guests not less.

    Those trying to link the referendum to it will be judged harshly by the public I expect

    Yeah I agree, maybe if the allegation was that he shouted "UKIP" loads it would be relevant, but I suspect most of the general public have never even heard of Britain First.
    Whilst today is tragic for her family and a very sad day for democracy, it is a totally unifying event for all those who believe in democracy, from whichever side of the divide. We can all rally around one flag - that violence is never the answer to disagreement.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    timmo said:

    Apart from Airey Neave when was the last time something like this took place?

    Ian Gow, 1990.

    Gow was murdered by a pair of PIRA terrorists who were roaming the UK trying to kill any major figure in the political/military scene. So I suppose a bit different from some lonely nutter, for which last example would be the assault on Steven Timms
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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,977
    I am devastated - this is totally beyond politics. An MP, with two young children, murdered in cold blood. So very sad.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,355

    DanSmith said:

    To be honest unless this guy was pictured with his arm round farage or something I dont think it is relevant.

    Britain First is little to do with the EU and leaving would likely bring in more of their non preferred guests not less.

    Those trying to link the referendum to it will be judged harshly by the public I expect

    Yeah I agree, maybe if the allegation was that he shouted "UKIP" loads it would be relevant, but I suspect most of the general public have never even heard of Britain First.
    Whilst today is tragic for her family and a very sad day for democracy, it is a totally unifying event for all those who believe in democracy, from whichever side of the divide. We can all rally around one flag - that violence is never the answer to disagreement.
    Tim Shipman
    11m
    Tim Shipman‏ @ShippersUnbound
    I don't care which side you're on next week, turn up and vote and show that's how we really do things in this country, not this.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    Pulpstar said:

    MP_SE said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MP_SE said:

    The attacker has been described as a loner.

    There was a study of serial killers in the US and a frightening proportion of them said Catcher in the Rye was their favourite book.
    My reading is largely limited to Asian art, Italian art and the EU so I had to Google it. First paragraph on Wikipedia contained this:

    "A controversial novel originally published for adults, it has since become popular with adolescent readers for its themes of teenage angst and alienation."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Catcher_in_the_Rye
    It's the only book I've ever read in one go.
    I read An Evil Cradling in one go. I literally got on and off tubes, walking and reading. I just couldn't put it down.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    DanSmith said:

    To be honest unless this guy was pictured with his arm round farage or something I dont think it is relevant.

    Britain First is little to do with the EU and leaving would likely bring in more of their non preferred guests not less.

    Those trying to link the referendum to it will be judged harshly by the public I expect

    Yeah I agree, maybe if the allegation was that he shouted "UKIP" loads it would be relevant, but I suspect most of the general public have never even heard of Britain First.
    It is relev to the investigation because they (Britain First) have regularly spoken about "taking the law into their own hands".
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    pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649
    Ach! RIP. Her poor children.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,047
    Truly awful. I can't help feel though that Peter Hitchens will be sharpening his pen with some harsh words for the soft on crime social justice warriors.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    pbr2013 said:

    Spain already puts huge pressure on Gibraltar to my knowledge. Being in the EU has not stopped that. Surely the solution is to have appropriate defence measures in place, and let the potential agressor know you're prepared to use them, not staying in the EU in the hope this will make them be a bit nicer. It's like giving a bully your lunch money.

    If we Leave, Spain remain's a NATO ally of ours.

    However, the real risk for Gibraltar is if the UK leaves the single market, given how the economy of the rock has evolved into financial services since the MoD massively scaled down its presence there from the late 80s onwards. I think the economy used to be 60% defence.

    Therefore, I think Gib would need to stay in the EEA, at least or be given massive support to become an offshore haven - like a European Caymans, for instance - with a global outlook.

    I don't know what the long term solution with Spain is. Inside or outside the EU they will continue to be a massive pain in the arse about it.
    Maybe they can have Gib back when they return Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco.
    Cognitive dissonance is a wonderful thing, is it not?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    Awful news, nothing more to say.

    Rest in Peace, thoughts and prayers to the family. :'(
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    tyson said:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClFI93FWQAEwqxY.jpg


    Can I have a request. Can other people please post this picture. It was taken yesterday by her husband and tweeted an hour or so ago- it is obviously how he wants her remembered. This image will stay with me for a long long time.
    RIP Jo

    :+1:
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    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215

    DanSmith said:

    To be honest unless this guy was pictured with his arm round farage or something I dont think it is relevant.

    Britain First is little to do with the EU and leaving would likely bring in more of their non preferred guests not less.

    Those trying to link the referendum to it will be judged harshly by the public I expect

    Yeah I agree, maybe if the allegation was that he shouted "UKIP" loads it would be relevant, but I suspect most of the general public have never even heard of Britain First.
    Whilst today is tragic for her family and a very sad day for democracy, it is a totally unifying event for all those who believe in democracy, from whichever side of the divide. We can all rally around one flag - that violence is never the answer to disagreement.
    Yes, I don't want to make connections (far too soon and distasteful for that, and we still know far too little about what happened), but our democracy has never been about shouting and hollering at each other, been far too much of that recently. Everyone needs to calm down, on all sides.
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,233
    Life is too fragile at times. Yesterday the Cox children had the excitement of a boat ride down the Thames as their mum campaigned for what she believed in, having been a campaigner all her life. Today their mum was brutally murdered, apparently for what she's believed in.

    I'm going home to hug my children.
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    reverend_catreverend_cat Posts: 71
    edited June 2016
    I feel incredibly sick thinking about this. Just shocking.

    All my thoughts are with her family.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001

    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Moses_ said:

    FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point

    "Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."

    Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory

    Just saying

    I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?

    Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
    Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:

    "Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
    Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."

    Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
    Vote Remain or the Gibs get it?

    Charming ;)
    It's the view in Gibraltar.....

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/the-rock-of-remain-why-gibraltar-is-rejecting-brexit

    But what would they know......
    I’m told, by people who have relatives there that the Gibraltarians are worried that Spain will use Britains exit as an excuse to put pressure on the Rock again.
    Correct - Rajoy repeated it today. There is real fear among expats generally in Spain - and wholly justified among those who are elderly and not rich enough to contemplate private health care.
    I have no sympathy for those who leech off the Spanish welfare state ans public services without ever having paid into the system. These expats (immigrants) should have to live by the same rules we want EU migrants to live by here. Pay into the system for a few years before qualifying for state assistance, including healthcare.
    The UK Government pays for them.
    I thought we just paid for E111 costs. If they choose to become resident in Spain then they become the problem of the Spanish government.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited June 2016
    I think we have to go back to Spencer Perceval (1812) to find a sitting MP murdered for a non-political motive - if that indeed proves to be the case...
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    DanSmith said:

    To be honest unless this guy was pictured with his arm round farage or something I dont think it is relevant.

    Britain First is little to do with the EU and leaving would likely bring in more of their non preferred guests not less.

    Those trying to link the referendum to it will be judged harshly by the public I expect

    Yeah I agree, maybe if the allegation was that he shouted "UKIP" loads it would be relevant, but I suspect most of the general public have never even heard of Britain First.
    Whilst today is tragic for her family and a very sad day for democracy, it is a totally unifying event for all those who believe in democracy, from whichever side of the divide. We can all rally around one flag - that violence is never the answer to disagreement.
    Absolutely. We don't think about assassination in this country and we need to keep it that way.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,454
    DanSmith said:

    DanSmith said:

    To be honest unless this guy was pictured with his arm round farage or something I dont think it is relevant.

    Britain First is little to do with the EU and leaving would likely bring in more of their non preferred guests not less.

    Those trying to link the referendum to it will be judged harshly by the public I expect

    Yeah I agree, maybe if the allegation was that he shouted "UKIP" loads it would be relevant, but I suspect most of the general public have never even heard of Britain First.
    Whilst today is tragic for her family and a very sad day for democracy, it is a totally unifying event for all those who believe in democracy, from whichever side of the divide. We can all rally around one flag - that violence is never the answer to disagreement.
    Yes, I don't want to make connections (far too soon and distasteful for that, and we still know far too little about what happened), but our democracy has never been about shouting and hollering at each other, been far too much of that recently. Everyone needs to calm down, on all sides.
    I fully appreciate where you're coming from, but isn't that exactly what our democracy is about? Look at our Parliament!
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    pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649
    rcs1000 said:

    pbr2013 said:

    Spain already puts huge pressure on Gibraltar to my knowledge. Being in the EU has not stopped that. Surely the solution is to have appropriate defence measures in place, and let the potential agressor know you're prepared to use them, not staying in the EU in the hope this will make them be a bit nicer. It's like giving a bully your lunch money.

    If we Leave, Spain remain's a NATO ally of ours.

    However, the real risk for Gibraltar is if the UK leaves the single market, given how the economy of the rock has evolved into financial services since the MoD massively scaled down its presence there from the late 80s onwards. I think the economy used to be 60% defence.

    Therefore, I think Gib would need to stay in the EEA, at least or be given massive support to become an offshore haven - like a European Caymans, for instance - with a global outlook.

    I don't know what the long term solution with Spain is. Inside or outside the EU they will continue to be a massive pain in the arse about it.
    Maybe they can have Gib back when they return Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco.
    Cognitive dissonance is a wonderful thing, is it not?
    Talk to a Spaniard though, and that's "different".
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Moses_ said:

    FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point

    "Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."

    Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory

    Just saying

    I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?

    Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
    Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:

    "Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
    Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."

    Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
    Vote Remain or the Gibs get it?

    Charming ;)
    It's the view in Gibraltar.....

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/the-rock-of-remain-why-gibraltar-is-rejecting-brexit

    But what would they know......
    I’m told, by people who have relatives there that the Gibraltarians are worried that Spain will use Britains exit as an excuse to put pressure on the Rock again.
    Correct - Rajoy repeated it today. There is real fear among expats generally in Spain - and wholly justified among those who are elderly and not rich enough to contemplate private health care.
    I have no sympathy for those who leech off the Spanish welfare state ans public services without ever having paid into the system. These expats (immigrants) should have to live by the same rules we want EU migrants to live by here. Pay into the system for a few years before qualifying for state assistance, including healthcare.
    The UK Government pays for them.
    Correct. Part of a European wide agreement. No one leeching at all.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited June 2016
    The suspected killer appears to have a history of mental illness.

    "Update — Suspected killer may have had “mental health problems”, in receipt of “psychotherapy and medication”
    The suspected killer of MP Jo Cox has been named locally as Thomas Mair, who has featured in a number of local news reports in recent years as a mentally ill man who claimed to be benefitting from local voluntary opportunities.

    An archived 2010 article about a country park which welcomed Mr. Mair from the Pathways Day Centre for adults with mental health problems to volunteer in building a “faith garden” reported Mr. Mair as saying: “I can honestly say it has done me more good than all the psychotherapy and medication in the world."

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/16/breaking-labour-mp-jo-cox-shot-stabbed-constituency-surgery-yorkshire/
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,813
    RIP Jo Cox.

    Been sat on the internet most of the afternoon, pressing refresh and scooting round different sites to see the latest, then pressing refresh in the hope of un-seeing it. Time to go off and do something more constructive, I think.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,337

    Very very sad. I know little about her but from pictures she radiates a genuine warmth. I have also seen pictures of her husband and young children. How utterly terrible for them.

    The man who did this is an utter coward who has attacked our democracy as a whole. We are lucky enough in this country that our MPs are still contactable and do meet regular people. This man has harmed that.

    Yes, after the Timms attack we all wondered if we needed to tighten up security st surgeries etc. In the end we decided it simply wasn't possible for an active MP not to give the opportunity for an attack and we just had to hope for the best.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    RIP Jo Cox :(

    Nothing else to say :(
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,968
    I think I need to stop reading stories about this. The brutality of it, with the attacker described as kicking her even as she lay on the ground. :(
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Life is too fragile at times. Yesterday the Cox children had the excitement of a boat ride down the Thames as their mum campaigned for what she believed in, having been a campaigner all her life. Today their mum was brutally murdered, apparently for what she's believed in.

    I'm going home to hug my children.

    The contrast between yesterday and today is particularly ghastly.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    timmo said:

    For democracy now to flourish and in acknowledgement that Jo Cox was elected for a full term i sincerely hope that all the other parties will not put candidates up at the byelection that will now sadly take place.
    That would be a fitting cross party response.

    No that doesn't make sense. She was selected to serve the term not whoever Labour select. If we don't stand candidates then this person wins.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    edited June 2016
    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    Mr. Max, in the same way as those who kill policemen get that sort of sentence, it should apply here.

    Agreed - while they are still mere mortals like you and I, they do represent something more. Murdering one is an attack not just on them, but on our entire system of democracy.
    Absolutely right. I'm not a fan of capital punishment, however in this case he deserves nothing else. Try him for treason and have him hanged.

    My guess is that this is not what she would have believed in or what her family would want.

    What a truly horrible moment in our country's history.

    May her family find some level of peace and remember her as the wonderful woman, Mum and wife she clearly was.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,968

    Very very sad. I know little about her but from pictures she radiates a genuine warmth. I have also seen pictures of her husband and young children. How utterly terrible for them.

    The man who did this is an utter coward who has attacked our democracy as a whole. We are lucky enough in this country that our MPs are still contactable and do meet regular people. This man has harmed that.

    Yes, after the Timms attack we all wondered if we needed to tighten up security st surgeries etc. In the end we decided it simply wasn't possible for an active MP not to give the opportunity for an attack and we just had to hope for the best.
    Kudos to you all for that.. it would be a shame of our democracy was less open.
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    John_N4John_N4 Posts: 553
    Dreadful news :(

    If she was DOA, then the story that she was fighting for her life in hospital was a lie. Politics is dirty.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.

    Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.
    One could be charitable and assume you're being ultra sarcastic but it is the latest in a number of flippant and inappropriate posts from you today.
    I guess you were the kid in the playground who was disgusted when people made jokes in the wake of the Challenger disaster.

    This is a tragedy, for Jo herself, and for her family and friends. My making a bad joke does not diminish that.
    My favorites were:

    Why did NASA order Diet Coke? - Because they couldn't get 7-UP

    What were the last words heard from the Challenger? - What does this button do?

    *boom, 'tish* I'm here all night, folks
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    David Wooding ‏@DavidWooding 3 mins3 minutes ago London, England

    Earlier I posted BBC report which said man who shot Jo Cox shouted "Britain First". Doubts now cast on his words.

    The Telegraph have removed all reference to it.

    Those spreading it at a time like this should have known better, those using it to gain political advantage are beneath contempt.

    It may or may not be true but time will tell and the last thing the police need is unsubstantiated gossip clouding their search for the truth.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,968
    John_N4 said:

    Dreadful news :(

    If she was DOA, then the story that she was fighting for her life in hospital was a lie. Politics is dirty.

    Telegraph reporting Drs did fight to save her life, but she died an hour after the attack.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited June 2016
    matt said:

    Charles said:

    Moses_ said:

    FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point

    "Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."

    Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory

    Just saying

    I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?

    Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
    I know nothing about the subject. So here's my opinion....
    If you read my post carefully, it wasn't an opinion, it was a question (with a sarcastic faux response)
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    pbr2013 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    pbr2013 said:

    Spain already puts huge pressure on Gibraltar to my knowledge. Being in the EU has not stopped that. Surely the solution is to have appropriate defence measures in place, and let the potential agressor know you're prepared to use them, not staying in the EU in the hope this will make them be a bit nicer. It's like giving a bully your lunch money.

    If we Leave, Spain remain's a NATO ally of ours.

    However, the real risk for Gibraltar is if the UK leaves the single market, given how the economy of the rock has evolved into financial services since the MoD massively scaled down its presence there from the late 80s onwards. I think the economy used to be 60% defence.

    Therefore, I think Gib would need to stay in the EEA, at least or be given massive support to become an offshore haven - like a European Caymans, for instance - with a global outlook.

    I don't know what the long term solution with Spain is. Inside or outside the EU they will continue to be a massive pain in the arse about it.
    Maybe they can have Gib back when they return Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco.
    Cognitive dissonance is a wonderful thing, is it not?
    Talk to a Spaniard though, and that's "different".
    Why? Really, I'm curious as to the mental gymnastics involved here.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,968

    David Wooding ‏@DavidWooding 3 mins3 minutes ago London, England

    Earlier I posted BBC report which said man who shot Jo Cox shouted "Britain First". Doubts now cast on his words.

    The Telegraph have removed all reference to it.
    No they haven't

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/16/labour-mp-jo-cox-shot-in-leeds-witnesses-report/

    Fourth point down.

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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    John_N4 said:

    Dreadful news :(

    If she was DOA, then the story that she was fighting for her life in hospital was a lie. Politics is dirty.

    Hopeful rumours always swirl in such situations.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,968
    nunu said:

    timmo said:

    For democracy now to flourish and in acknowledgement that Jo Cox was elected for a full term i sincerely hope that all the other parties will not put candidates up at the byelection that will now sadly take place.
    That would be a fitting cross party response.

    No that doesn't make sense. She was selected to serve the term not whoever Labour select. If we don't stand candidates then this person wins.
    In a few days/weeks I'll probably agree with you. Probably shows why being emotional and making decisions is a bad combo!
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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    Mr. Max, in the same way as those who kill policemen get that sort of sentence, it should apply here.

    Agreed - while they are still mere mortals like you and I, they do represent something more. Murdering one is an attack not just on them, but on our entire system of democracy.
    Absolutely right. I'm not a fan of capital punishment, however in this case he deserves nothing else. Try him for treason and have him hanged.
    It is becoming clear he was suffering from a mental illness and thus his sentence will be affected accordingly.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    David Wooding ‏@DavidWooding 3 mins3 minutes ago London, England

    Earlier I posted BBC report which said man who shot Jo Cox shouted "Britain First". Doubts now cast on his words.

    The Telegraph have removed all reference to it.

    Those spreading it at a time like this should have known better, those using it to gain political advantage are beneath contempt.

    It may or may not be true but time will tell and the last thing the police need is unsubstantiated gossip clouding their search for the truth.
    Eagles has delete it.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,722
    edited June 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Moses_ said:

    FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point

    "Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."

    Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory

    Just saying

    I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?

    Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
    Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:

    "Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
    Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."

    Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
    Vote Remain or the Gibs get it?

    Charming ;)
    It's the view in Gibraltar.....

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/the-rock-of-remain-why-gibraltar-is-rejecting-brexit

    But what would they know......
    I’m told, by people who have relatives there that the Gibraltarians are worried that Spain will use Britains exit as an excuse to put pressure on the Rock again.
    Correct - Rajoy repeated it today. There is real fear among expats generally in Spain - and wholly justified among those who are elderly and not rich enough to contemplate private health care.
    I have no sympathy for those who leech off the Spanish welfare state ans public services without ever having paid into the system. These expats (immigrants) should have to live by the same rules we want EU migrants to live by here. Pay into the system for a few years before qualifying for state assistance, including healthcare.
    The UK Government pays for them.
    I thought we just paid for E111 costs. If they choose to become resident in Spain then they become the problem of the Spanish government.
    I am pretty sure the NHS is provided free of charge to all residents in the UK. Whatever it is will be reciprocal in Spain.Maybe you are thinking of state pensions?

    Edit: I must have been responding to Lucky G .. Apologies
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,071
    Anorak said:

    pbr2013 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    pbr2013 said:

    Spain already puts huge pressure on Gibraltar to my knowledge. Being in the EU has not stopped that. Surely the solution is to have appropriate defence measures in place, and let the potential agressor know you're prepared to use them, not staying in the EU in the hope this will make them be a bit nicer. It's like giving a bully your lunch money.

    If we Leave, Spain remain's a NATO ally of ours.

    However, the real risk for Gibraltar is if the UK leaves the single market, given how the economy of the rock has evolved into financial services since the MoD massively scaled down its presence there from the late 80s onwards. I think the economy used to be 60% defence.

    Therefore, I think Gib would need to stay in the EEA, at least or be given massive support to become an offshore haven - like a European Caymans, for instance - with a global outlook.

    I don't know what the long term solution with Spain is. Inside or outside the EU they will continue to be a massive pain in the arse about it.
    Maybe they can have Gib back when they return Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco.
    Cognitive dissonance is a wonderful thing, is it not?
    Talk to a Spaniard though, and that's "different".
    Why? Really, I'm curious as to the mental gymnastics involved here.
    It probably involves similar logic to Putin saying that Ukraine isn't a real state.
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,993
    Shocking awful news. Devastating for her family. I really feel for them. Out of the blue. Doing her job. I feel a heavy sadness for them, - and for all of us really as we think of her family.

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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    RobD said:

    John_N4 said:

    Dreadful news :(

    If she was DOA, then the story that she was fighting for her life in hospital was a lie. Politics is dirty.

    Telegraph reporting Drs did fight to save her life, but she died an hour after the attack.
    They fought for JFK too, but he was DOA in reality.
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    RobD said:

    David Wooding ‏@DavidWooding 3 mins3 minutes ago London, England

    Earlier I posted BBC report which said man who shot Jo Cox shouted "Britain First". Doubts now cast on his words.

    The Telegraph have removed all reference to it.
    No they haven't

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/16/labour-mp-jo-cox-shot-in-leeds-witnesses-report/

    Fourth point down.

    So they havent. I stand corrected. I stand by the other points I made though.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,968
    RodCrosby said:

    RobD said:

    John_N4 said:

    Dreadful news :(

    If she was DOA, then the story that she was fighting for her life in hospital was a lie. Politics is dirty.

    Telegraph reporting Drs did fight to save her life, but she died an hour after the attack.
    They fought for JFK too, but he was DOA in reality.
    A good point. It's all moot really, I suppose.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,968

    David Wooding ‏@DavidWooding 3 mins3 minutes ago London, England

    Earlier I posted BBC report which said man who shot Jo Cox shouted "Britain First". Doubts now cast on his words.

    The Telegraph have removed all reference to it.

    Those spreading it at a time like this should have known better, those using it to gain political advantage are beneath contempt.

    It may or may not be true but time will tell and the last thing the police need is unsubstantiated gossip clouding their search for the truth.
    Eagles has delete it.
    Probably so she isn't seen to be making capital out of it.
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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    RobD said:

    John_N4 said:

    Dreadful news :(

    If she was DOA, then the story that she was fighting for her life in hospital was a lie. Politics is dirty.

    Telegraph reporting Drs did fight to save her life, but she died an hour after the attack.
    I remember Fabrice Muamba saying he was technically dead for over an hour before his heart was shocked into beating again.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2118290/Fabrice-Muamba-dead-78-minutes-shocked-15-times-heart-beating-again.html

    The paramedics and doctors were doing the fighting for an hour, by the sounds of it.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    John_N4 said:

    Dreadful news :(

    If she was DOA, then the story that she was fighting for her life in hospital was a lie. Politics is dirty.

    TBH, it became clear when the hospital weren't providing any updates at all that the worst had happened. In a situation like this, they would always be providing updates if there was anything remotely positive to say, even if it was just "her situation remains critical, doctors are continuing to treat her, etc."
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited June 2016
    Many of those on that list were ex-MPs...

    I think PM Perceval was the last MP killed by a nutter (from Liverpool), although there have been a few close shaves in recent years, as people have noted.
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    David Wooding ‏@DavidWooding 3 mins3 minutes ago London, England

    Earlier I posted BBC report which said man who shot Jo Cox shouted "Britain First". Doubts now cast on his words.

    The Telegraph have removed all reference to it.

    Those spreading it at a time like this should have known better, those using it to gain political advantage are beneath contempt.

    It may or may not be true but time will tell and the last thing the police need is unsubstantiated gossip clouding their search for the truth.
    Eagles has delete it.
    Good.

    It should never have been posted by someone in her position and revealed rather more about her than she intended.

    That said she may well have been close to the victim and reacted emotionally.

    Thats why I'm not on twitter, it is just too easy to publish something wild in the heat of the moment that is just too public.

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    JamesMJamesM Posts: 221
    Awful, awful news about the death of Jo Cox. A tragedy. May she Rest In Peace and my thoughts and prayers are with her family and friends.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    God, I hope they cancel Question Time tonight.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Question Time cancelled.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Just home after afternoon out watching football.

    Shocking news, RIP Jo Cox.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,968

    God, I hope they cancel Question Time tonight.

    It surely has to be delayed? Same goes for This Week (or at least remove all the jokey aspects).
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,968
    Looks like you were 1 minute too early Southam!
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    If Spain were returning Ceuta to anyone, strictly speaking it should be to the Portuguese.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Sad news on the death of Jo Cox, but not entirely unexpected following her massive blood loss immediately after the attack. Rest in Peace.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,455
    RobD said:

    God, I hope they cancel Question Time tonight.

    It surely has to be delayed? Same goes for This Week (or at least remove all the jokey aspects).
    This Week is a by-election special on until 2am
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,455
    Norn Iron have taken the lead against Ukraine
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    DavidL said:

    Appalling event. Have we any idea as to motive yet (other than insanity natch)?

    MP Jo Cox shot outside Birstall library by man shouting ‘Britain First’

    http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/16/batley-and-spen-mp-shot-in-birstall-5948867/
    Oh FFS - really ?

    I am just catching up with this.

    Appalling.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    Mr. Floater, it's not quite clear, to be honest.

    The murderer appears to have had psychological problems for quite some years, but we still don't know much for certain.
This discussion has been closed.