Graeme Howard, 38, who lives in nearby Bond Street, told the Guardian he heard the man shout “Britain First” before the shooting and during the arrest.
I thought the arrest was some distance from the incident - I might be mistaken.
@David_Cameron: It's right that all campaigning has been stopped after the terrible attack on Jo Cox. I won't go ahead with tonight's rally in Gibraltar.
Quite right and the correct thing to do - I wonder who paid for his flight though...
Oh come on!! If that's not Cameron capitalising on the shooting, what on earth is it?
The same could be said for both sides by cancelling their campaigns. If Cameron had said "this is why we should vote remain" I'd agree with you.
No one in the official campaigns has done anything other than what is right and proper so far. Hopefully it will stay that way.
The Leave campaign have always carried a downside risk of something rotten being done in the name of Leave if not by the campaign itself - a poster or speech on immigration or throwaway Farageism that crosses the line into blatant racism, or a bunch of neo-fascist thugs or football hooligans turning up at a rally perhaps, though this is something really shocking and beyond anticipation. (And even if it is really just a nutter, plain and simple, from a political point of view what matters is public perception. A lot of people right now are going to think it is "obvious" this has something to do with her EU stance. Moreover there may be little sympathy for the raised temperatures that the referendum campaign has produced.)
Closest international comparison is perhaps Anna Lindh, who sadly died. Really hope we don't have a repeat of that in this case. But for what it's worth, the Swedish public still voted against the euro in the referendum that Lindh was vocally campaigning on at the time - despite this clearly being "what her attacker would have wanted", so one has to credit the electorate with a certain level of maturity.
Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
Off topic, I really hope that Sir Cliff Richard can sue the hell out of Soutth Yorkshire police and the BBC. The most massive invasion of privacy imaginable.
Oh, and SY Police, again. They should have been disbanded after Rotherham and Hillsborough, now they certainly should be. Does anyone have any confidence in them any more?
Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.
@David_Cameron: It's right that all campaigning has been stopped after the terrible attack on Jo Cox. I won't go ahead with tonight's rally in Gibraltar.
Quite right and the correct thing to do - I wonder who paid for his flight though...
Oh come on!! If that's not Cameron capitalising on the shooting, what on earth is it?
The same could be said for both sides by cancelling their campaigns. If Cameron had said "this is why we should vote remain" I'd agree with you.
No one in the official campaigns has done anything other than what is right and proper so far. Hopefully it will stay that way.
The Leave campaign have always carried a downside risk of something rotten being done in the name of Leave if not by the campaign itself - a poster or speech on immigration or throwaway Farageism that crosses the line into blatant racism, or a bunch of neo-fascist thugs or football hooligans turning up at a rally perhaps, though this is something really shocking and beyond anticipation. (And even if it is really just a nutter, plain and simple, from a political point of view what matters is public perception. A lot of people right now are going to think it is "obvious" this has something to do with her EU stance. Moreover there may be little sympathy for the raised temperatures that the referendum campaign has produced.)
Closest international comparison is perhaps Anna Lindh, who sadly died. Really hope we don't have a repeat of that in this case. But for what it's worth, the Swedish public still voted against the euro in the referendum that Lindh was vocally campaigning on at the time - despite this clearly being "what her attacker would have wanted", so one has to credit the electorate with a certain level of maturity.
We've had MPs murdered by the IRA as well, but most people had the sense not to blame moderate Irish Nationalists.
@David_Cameron: It's right that all campaigning has been stopped after the terrible attack on Jo Cox. I won't go ahead with tonight's rally in Gibraltar.
Quite right and the correct thing to do - I wonder who paid for his flight though...
Oh come on!! If that's not Cameron capitalising on the shooting, what on earth is it?
The same could be said for both sides by cancelling their campaigns. If Cameron had said "this is why we should vote remain" I'd agree with you.
No one in the official campaigns has done anything other than what is right and proper so far. Hopefully it will stay that way.
The Leave campaign have always carried a downside risk of something rotten being done in the name of Leave if not by the campaign itself - a poster or speech on immigration or throwaway Farageism that crosses the line into blatant racism, or a bunch of neo-fascist thugs or football hooligans turning up at a rally perhaps, though this is something really shocking and beyond anticipation. (And even if it is really just a nutter, plain and simple, from a political point of view what matters is public perception. A lot of people right now are going to think it is "obvious" this has something to do with her EU stance. Moreover there may be little sympathy for the raised temperatures that the referendum campaign has produced.)
Closest international comparison is perhaps Anna Lindh, who sadly died. Really hope we don't have a repeat of that in this case. But for what it's worth, the Swedish public still voted against the euro in the referendum that Lindh was vocally campaigning on at the time - despite this clearly being "what her attacker would have wanted", so one has to credit the electorate with a certain level of maturity.
We've had MPs murdered by the IRA as well, but most people had the sense not to blame moderate Irish Nationalists.
First of all. I've been in tears this afternoon. Then heard about Jo Cox and then more tears. A "man" did this to a defenceless woman. Makes me ashamed of my sex. I pray she recovers.
But we can't ignore "Britain First". Had it been "Allahu Akbar" we know the Shock and Outrage that it would have generated in the Daily Hurrah-For-The-Blackshirts. This appears to be - multiple witnesses - a person allying himself with white power fascists.
I'll let you draw your own conclusions about the impact on this referendum. But aside from that, what is wrong with our society. "Men" who think manhood is shirt off drunken assault on police and foreigners at a football tournament shaming the entire nation. And now this.
Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.
We don't know what he looks like. There is a picture of a shaven headed man who might either be being detained or treated. There was one other victim.
There will be a time to consider why this attack took place, whether there are any wider points for consideration or whether this was just a one-off attack by a madman.
First of all. I've been in tears this afternoon. Then heard about Jo Cox and then more tears. A "man" did this to a defenceless woman. Makes me ashamed of my sex. I pray she recovers.
But we can't ignore "Britain First". Had it been "Allahu Akbar" we know the Shock and Outrage that it would have generated in the Daily Hurrah-For-The-Blackshirts. This appears to be - multiple witnesses - a person allying himself with white power fascists.
I'll let you draw your own conclusions about the impact on this referendum. But aside from that, what is wrong with our society. "Men" who think manhood is shirt off drunken assault on police and foreigners at a football tournament shaming the entire nation. And now this.
To be fair to them, the Mail and the Telegraph were the first to report that he did say it.
@David_Cameron: It's right that all campaigning has been stopped after the terrible attack on Jo Cox. I won't go ahead with tonight's rally in Gibraltar.
Quite right and the correct thing to do - I wonder who paid for his flight though...
Oh come on!! If that's not Cameron capitalising on the shooting, what on earth is it?
The same could be said for both sides by cancelling their campaigns. If Cameron had said "this is why we should vote remain" I'd agree with you.
No one in the official campaigns has done anything other than what is right and proper so far. Hopefully it will stay that way.
The Leave campaign have always carried a downside risk of something rotten being done in the name of Leave if not by the campaign itself - a poster or speech on immigration or throwaway Farageism that crosses the line into blatant racism, or a bunch of neo-fascist thugs or football hooligans turning up at a rally perhaps, though this is something really shocking and beyond anticipation. (And even if it is really just a nutter, plain and simple, from a political point of view what matters is public perception. A lot of people right now are going to think it is "obvious" this has something to do with her EU stance. Moreover there may be little sympathy for the raised temperatures that the referendum campaign has produced.)
Closest international comparison is perhaps Anna Lindh, who sadly died. Really hope we don't have a repeat of that in this case. But for what it's worth, the Swedish public still voted against the euro in the referendum that Lindh was vocally campaigning on at the time - despite this clearly being "what her attacker would have wanted", so one has to credit the electorate with a certain level of maturity.
We've had MPs murdered by the IRA as well, but most people had the sense not to blame moderate Irish Nationalists.
Of course they didn't. But they did blame extreme Irish Nationalists.
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
Whether he shouted Britain First or not is irrelevant. This is the work of a madman, let's not pretend it is some political statement.
It's not irrelevant at all. We just don't know.
If a Muslim shouted Allahu Akbar as he shot and stabbed an MP we'd all think that was pretty damn relevant. Same here. We need to know more.
When you say "we", I think you are referring to yourself.
Dangerous and unhinged people grab hold of ideologies to justify their deeds.
I think this is a key point. Most people can distinguish between the actions of a few and the views of the many. For example, 7/7 was carried out by Muslims. This does not mean anything with respect to how I view Muslims. They weren't representative. Fred and Rosemary West were British. Only a fool would think less of the British in light of their actions.
While I love the Internet dearly, I think it has debased our political intercourse - it's an endless stream of "apologise for this", "distance yourself from that", "don't associate with them" together with endless variants of 'no true Scotsman'. It really does smack of playground politics in the very worst sense.
I'm going to be so disappointed if people link the actions of this miscreant in any way with the current referendum campaign. Let the countdown begin....
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.
I presume you're being ironic.
There are, however, already multiple 'False Flag Operation' tweets - no doubt you'll enjoy being quoted as 'proof'......
Gosh my thoughts are with the family. My wife has the same pair of shoes, and I have taken photos of her with the Shard in the background. I love that building. It says something about his character that he has posted such a wonderful photo, at this moment.
W.Yorks Police press briefing at 17:00 Britain First a far right political party have condemned the attack on Jo Cox and say it's nothing to do with them
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
John, I think you should lay off trying to make this point. I am prepared to opine that Juncker is not capitalising.
I posted on here almost the exactly same 'thoughts and prayers' line on here; it is a human thing to do.
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.
Don't forget Putin's plot to send his most dangerous hooligans to France to provoke the English into fighting them, thus getting England thrown out of the tournament and disqualified and, in the ensuing anger against Europe for the injustice, virtually guaranteeing Brexit.
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
You are making a tit of yourself dude. Not for now.
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Maybe Dave just wanted to go somewhere where he could be sure that people were pleased to see him. He's had a pretty brutal few weeks, it can't be easy being vilified morning, noon and night.
I'm sure he's having a number of difficult phone conversations with our European friends to boot.
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
There is another witness in the Telegraph I gave above.
Whether he shouted Britain First or not is irrelevant. This is the work of a madman, let's not pretend it is some political statement.
It's not irrelevant at all. We just don't know.
If a Muslim shouted Allahu Akbar as he shot and stabbed an MP we'd all think that was pretty damn relevant. Same here. We need to know more.
When you say "we", I think you are referring to yourself.
Dangerous and unhinged people grab hold of ideologies to justify their deeds.
I think this is a key point. Most people can distinguish between the actions of a few and the views of the many. For example, 7/7 was carried out by Muslims. This does not mean anything with respect to how I view Muslims. They weren't representative. Fred and Rosemary West were British. Only a fool would think less of the British in light of their actions.
While I love the Internet dearly, I think it has debased our political intercourse - it's an endless stream of "apologise for this", "distance yourself from that", "don't associate with them" together with endless variants of 'no true Scotsman'. It really does smack of playground politics in the very worst sense.
I'm going to be so disappointed if people link the actions of this miscreant in any way with the current referendum campaign. Let the countdown begin....
Well said. A short period of reflection by everyone is desparately overdue. Laters.
Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.
Don't forget Putin's plot to send his most dangerous hooligans to France to provoke the English into fighting them, thus getting England thrown out of the tournament and disqualified and, in the ensuing anger against Europe for the injustice, virtually guaranteeing Brexit.
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
If another report is correct and the police heard him say it while being pinned to the ground, it will be immaterial anyway. What they will want is any more detailed sense of his full motivation. Until then ,any rush to completely disassociate from current political activities is as inadvisable as automatic linkage.
Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
I don't think Juncker is capitalising on it at all - a fellow professional has been seriously injured in the line of duty - if he'd said nothing you'd be claiming 'See - Juncker doesn't care what happens in Britain, even when an MP is attacked'.
IF Juncker had used the opportunity to make a political point 'which is why Britain is Stronger in the EU', then yes, that would be capitalising - but he didn't, so he isn't.
Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.
We don't know what he looks like. There is a picture of a shaven headed man who might either be being detained or treated. There was one other victim.
I think (or at least I hope) Robert was being rather ironic.
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
I am.
Me too.
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.
Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
Since the footie is done, we could switch the discussion to trains?
Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
Shall we have a discussion about AV, the finest voting system know to man?
Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
Since the footie is done, we could switch the discussion to trains?
I'm going to see if I can dig out some commentary from other areas of Europe on Brexit. Of course, this is going to challenge my monolingual skills quite significantly. Later all.
What an awful thing. Like Rochdale, I have been dealing with something very bad on the personal front recently. I've never been one for getting upset when something bad happens to someone I don't know but because I am a bit on the edge at the moment I find myself fighting tears about Jo Cox even though I admit I had never heard of her until today.
Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
Shall we have a discussion about AV, the finest voting system know to man?
How did I forget about that as a possible discussion topic?
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
I am.
Me too.
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.
What? the man who said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
I am.
Me too.
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.
I have a pet hate on here which is when people attack the honest outright federalists in Europe (and in the UK for that matter). We see it a lot with the false claims about Jean Monnet (who never at any time said that the peoples of Europe should be tricked into federalism which is a favourite claim by some). The fact that I share a different vision for Britain and Europe based on my own political views doesn't mean I can't understand or admire those with whom I disagree.
The thing I really hate about UK Europhiles is the examples who try to claim nothing is changing or mislead about the objectives of the EU or their own beliefs in an attempt to con the public.
I don't know much about Juncker but I have never seen him claiming to be anything other than a firm and forthright believer in the EU project.
Irrespective of this terrible incident, the betfair market was already swinging back to remain after this morning's polls- some serious money is being placed on remain...and it is placed after the price eases out.
Has it crossed your mind that there is some private polling going on that is being backed by some serious money? JackW- where has he gone? He has his finger on the private polling in my view. Do you think he's been slightly leant on? If not, and he is genuinely unwell, then I apologise fully.
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
Shall we have a discussion about AV, the finest voting system know to man?
Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.
One could be charitable and assume you're being ultra sarcastic but it is the latest in a number of flippant and inappropriate posts from you today.
Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.
One could be charitable and assume you're being ultra sarcastic but it is the latest in a number of flippant and inappropriate posts from you today.
Whoever did this is a nutter and not representative of anyone but himself.
What we should always do is avoid jumping to conclusions. It turns out, for instance, that the murderer in Orlando may have had some very deep-seated issues around his own homosexuality and that he may not be just a common or garden Isis warrior butcher.
There is a reason that some media outlets do not immediately report that a person is this or that or the other. Just because it is on the Internet, just because it appears plausible, does not make it true. With killings, attempted murders and other attacks the responsible thing to do is to wait. And to pray for the victim(s).
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
There is another witness in the Telegraph I gave above.
Thanks for this. I didn't see that. This is the Clarke Rothwell who runs a nearby cafe and is described in the Telegraph as believing (sic) that the gunman shot Mrs Cox three times while "in the meantime" stabbing her, and alternatively as stating that he shot her three times before stabbing her (so which is it?), and that as he stabbed her he shouted "Britain First, Britain First, Britain First". He also said that he "understood" that the altercation was "always between the guy carrying the gun and the lady that got shot".
Some of this is clearly secondhand.
Any idea what Mr Rothwell actually claims that he himself saw or heard, firsthand?
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
I am.
Me too.
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.
What? the man who said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"
Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
Shall we have a discussion about AV, the finest voting system know to man?
I think an Ed is crap thread is in order. We haven't had one for absolutely ages.
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
I am.
Me too.
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.
What? the man who said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"
Irrespective of this terrible incident, the betfair market was already swinging back to remain after this morning's polls- some serious money is being placed on remain...and it is placed after the price eases out.
Has it crossed your mind that there is some private polling going on that is being backed by some serious money? JackW- where has he gone? He has his finger on the private polling in my view. Do you think he's been slightly leant on? If not, and he is genuinely unwell, then I apologise fully.
Jack W is unwell.
Any private polling should mirror public polling - if it's being done properly.
Irrespective of this terrible incident, the betfair market was already swinging back to remain after this morning's polls- some serious money is being placed on remain...and it is placed after the price eases out.
Has it crossed your mind that there is some private polling going on that is being backed by some serious money? JackW- where has he gone? He has his finger on the private polling in my view. Do you think he's been slightly leant on? If not, and he is genuinely unwell, then I apologise fully.
Irrespective of this terrible incident, the betfair market was already swinging back to remain after this morning's polls- some serious money is being placed on remain...and it is placed after the price eases out.
Has it crossed your mind that there is some private polling going on that is being backed by some serious money? JackW- where has he gone? He has his finger on the private polling in my view. Do you think he's been slightly leant on? If not, and he is genuinely unwell, then I apologise fully.
Tyson, we had a post a week or so ago, I think from his son, saying that Jack W had been rushed into hospital and nothing more would be heard from him at least for a while. I think OGH has been in touch, but I havn’t seen an update, although as I don’t have this on permananet view I could well have missed something.
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
There is another witness in the Telegraph I gave above.
Thanks for this. I didn't see that. This is the Clarke Rothwell who runs a nearby cafe and is described in the Telegraph as believing (sic) that the gunman shot Mrs Cox three times while "in the meantime" stabbing her, and alternatively as stating that he shot her three times before stabbing her (so which is it?), and that as he stabbed her he shouted "Britain First, Britain First, Britain First". He also said that he "understood" that the altercation was "always between the guy carrying the gun and the lady that got shot".
Some of this is clearly secondhand.
Any idea what Mr Rothwell actually claims that he himself saw or heard, firsthand?
Why are you so desperate to discredit the eyewitnesses? The whole "understood" business is probably about the witness missing the first moments,..
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
I am.
Me too.
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.
What? the man who said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"
Irrespective of this terrible incident, the betfair market was already swinging back to remain after this morning's polls- some serious money is being placed on remain...and it is placed after the price eases out.
Has it crossed your mind that there is some private polling going on that is being backed by some serious money? JackW- where has he gone? He has his finger on the private polling in my view. Do you think he's been slightly leant on? If not, and he is genuinely unwell, then I apologise fully.
Jack W is unwell.
Any private polling should mirror public polling - if it's being done properly.
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
I’m told, by people who have relatives there that the Gibraltarians are worried that Spain will use Britains exit as an excuse to put pressure on the Rock again.
Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
Shall we have a discussion about AV, the finest voting system know to man?
Whoever did this is a nutter and not representative of anyone but himself.
What we should always do is avoid jumping to conclusions. It turns out, for instance, that the murderer in Orlando may have had some very deep-seated issues around his own homosexuality and that he may not be just a common or garden Isis warrior butcher.
There is a reason that some media outlets do not immediately report that a person is this or that or the other. Just because it is on the Internet, just because it appears plausible, does not make it true. With killings, attempted murders and other attacks the responsible thing to do is to wait. And to pray for the victim(s).
Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.
We don't know what he looks like. There is a picture of a shaven headed man who might either be being detained or treated. There was one other victim.
I think (or at least I hope) Robert was being rather ironic.
Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.
One could be charitable and assume you're being ultra sarcastic but it is the latest in a number of flippant and inappropriate posts from you today.
I guess you were the kid in the playground who was disgusted when people made jokes in the wake of the Challenger disaster.
This is a tragedy, for Jo herself, and for her family and friends. My making a bad joke does not diminish that.
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
I am.
Me too.
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.
What? the man who said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"
Whether he shouted Britain First or not is irrelevant. This is the work of a madman, let's not pretend it is some political statement.
It's not irrelevant at all. We just don't know.
If a Muslim shouted Allahu Akbar as he shot and stabbed an MP we'd all think that was pretty damn relevant. Same here. We need to know more.
When you say "we", I think you are referring to yourself.
Dangerous and unhinged people grab hold of ideologies to justify their deeds.
I'm not frightened to call out Islamist nuttery when I see it. Equally I accept the possibility that the far right can be violent, here and elsewhere. Breivik did his hideous killings in peaceable Norway, ffs
It's difficult not to see this as a pivotal moment in the campaign. If it had been a Syrian refugee we know it would have won it for OUT. We discussed these black swans many times. If it turns out it is some eurosceptic madman, eesh.
Today was the first day I was really uncomfortable with the LEAVE campaign. That UKIP poster. It's potent, but... No. If you go on Twitter you'll find it exactly mirrors stills from a nazi propaganda movie. Exactly.
I don't think Farage is a racist. I rather like him. But this was a definite error.
I don't think Farage is racist either. I think UKIP was looking for a picture that conveys immigrants as an invasion. They came across this one that seemed to fit the bill.. It wouldn't work if the picture was of someone who looked like your hard working cornershop owner or the cheery cleaner in your office.
Which is the problem when you treat people as concepts rather than individuals.
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
I am.
Me too.
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.
What? the man who said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
I’m told, by people who have relatives there that the Gibraltarians are worried that Spain will use Britains exit as an excuse to put pressure on the Rock again.
I wish the Spanish would read the Treaty of Utrecht.
I guess you were the kid in the playground who was disgusted when people made jokes in the wake of the Challenger disaster.
"It's dangerous and probably people will die – and they'll know that. And then they'll pave the way, and ultimately it will be very safe to go to Mars, and it will be very comfortable. But that will be many years in the future,"
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
Vote Remain or the Gibs get it?
Charming
IN or OUT Gibraltar remains a British Protectorate.
Spain will remember the Falklands.
Cameron would love to send a task force to save his reputation.
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
Vote Remain or the Gibs get it?
Charming
IN or OUT Gibraltar remains a British Protectorate.
Spain will remember the Falklands.
Cameron would love to send a task force to save his reputation.
Boris would lead the task force.
Farage has just demonstrated his naval abilities....
I guess you were the kid in the playground who was disgusted when people made jokes in the wake of the Challenger disaster.
"It's dangerous and probably people will die – and they'll know that. And then they'll pave the way, and ultimately it will be very safe to go to Mars, and it will be very comfortable. But that will be many years in the future,"
What do you think of Musk's comments here ?
I didn't laugh. Really, he's just not good at jokes.
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
Vote Remain or the Gibs get it?
Charming
IN or OUT Gibraltar remains a British Protectorate.
Spain will remember the Falklands.
Cameron would love to send a task force to save his reputation.
Boris would lead the task force.
It’ll take a task force to save Cameron’s reputation.
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
I am.
Me too.
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.
What? the man who said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"
Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
Shall we have a discussion about AV, the finest voting system know to man?
Surely the finest system is the D'Hondt system used in our European elections?
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
I am.
Me too.
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.
What? the man who said "When it becomes serious, you have to lie"
Who said "The Lord sometimes finds it necessary to do things in his public capacity that in his private capacity he abhors".
Was it Jesus?
I think it was in connection about the doctrine of infant damnation or something like that - the point is: A man might oppose you and not be a ruthless enemy, devoid of emotion and utterly pitiless.
Why are you so desperate to discredit the eyewitnesses? The whole "understood" business is probably about the witness missing the first moments,..
Why does a newspaper quote what someone who was nearby says about what he didn't see himself and that directly conflicts with what one or more other witnesses say they did see, namely an altercation between two men before Jo Cox got involved?
That's absolutely shit journalism, unless someone is quoted as saying "everyone round here believes X, but people are too scared to come forward", which isn't what they're saying here.
There's no need to ask me leading questions.
I am questioning the reports because I know that lies often get put out right at the beginning, nice easy ones to remember - the speedometer in the Princess Diana car stuck at 125mph; Jean-Charles de Menezes wearing a thick jacket with wires sticking out.
What's wrong with the method of questioning something and trying to debunk it before deciding whether to accept it?
Comments
Closest international comparison is perhaps Anna Lindh, who sadly died. Really hope we don't have a repeat of that in this case. But for what it's worth, the Swedish public still voted against the euro in the referendum that Lindh was vocally campaigning on at the time - despite this clearly being "what her attacker would have wanted", so one has to credit the electorate with a certain level of maturity.
After all, we're not exactly short on ethnic minority MPs.
From the news of the attack it's amazing she survived at all.
Keep fighting girl!
I think motive does matter but can be left for a later time. Hope for the best.
Dangerous and unhinged people grab hold of ideologies to justify their deeds.
Oh, and SY Police, again. They should have been disbanded after Rotherham and Hillsborough, now they certainly should be. Does anyone have any confidence in them any more?
This is a terrible tragedy, and probably reflects more that people with severe psychiatric issues are not given appropriate treatment.
But we can't ignore "Britain First". Had it been "Allahu Akbar" we know the Shock and Outrage that it would have generated in the Daily Hurrah-For-The-Blackshirts. This appears to be - multiple witnesses - a person allying himself with white power fascists.
I'll let you draw your own conclusions about the impact on this referendum. But aside from that, what is wrong with our society. "Men" who think manhood is shirt off drunken assault on police and foreigners at a football tournament shaming the entire nation. And now this.
This is not that time. TSE says it perfectly.
NOT Britain first
I've just seen on twitter people claiming it was a false flag attack by Remain to stop Brexit.
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
While I love the Internet dearly, I think it has debased our political intercourse - it's an endless stream of "apologise for this", "distance yourself from that", "don't associate with them" together with endless variants of 'no true Scotsman'. It really does smack of playground politics in the very worst sense.
I'm going to be so disappointed if people link the actions of this miscreant in any way with the current referendum campaign. Let the countdown begin....
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
There are, however, already multiple 'False Flag Operation' tweets - no doubt you'll enjoy being quoted as 'proof'......
Britain First a far right political party have condemned the attack on Jo Cox and say it's nothing to do with them
I posted on here almost the exactly same 'thoughts and prayers' line on here; it is a human thing to do.
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
I'm sure he's having a number of difficult phone conversations with our European friends to boot.
Laters.
IF Juncker had used the opportunity to make a political point 'which is why Britain is Stronger in the EU', then yes, that would be capitalising - but he didn't, so he isn't.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10874230/Jean-Claude-Juncker-profile-When-it-becomes-serious-you-have-to-lie.html
The thing I really hate about UK Europhiles is the examples who try to claim nothing is changing or mislead about the objectives of the EU or their own beliefs in an attempt to con the public.
I don't know much about Juncker but I have never seen him claiming to be anything other than a firm and forthright believer in the EU project.
Has it crossed your mind that there is some private polling going on that is being backed by some serious money? JackW- where has he gone? He has his finger on the private polling in my view. Do you think he's been slightly leant on? If not, and he is genuinely unwell, then I apologise fully.
Charming
( Especially rigged elections )
What we should always do is avoid jumping to conclusions. It turns out, for instance, that the murderer in Orlando may have had some very deep-seated issues around his own homosexuality and that he may not be just a common or garden Isis warrior butcher.
There is a reason that some media outlets do not immediately report that a person is this or that or the other. Just because it is on the Internet, just because it appears plausible, does not make it true. With killings, attempted murders and other attacks the responsible thing to do is to wait. And to pray for the victim(s).
Some of this is clearly secondhand.
Any idea what Mr Rothwell actually claims that he himself saw or heard, firsthand?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/the-rock-of-remain-why-gibraltar-is-rejecting-brexit
But what would they know......
As to motivation, I wonder whether the Orlando shooting may also have had some impact in giving the perpetrator the idea.
Any private polling should mirror public polling - if it's being done properly.
This is a tragedy, for Jo herself, and for her family and friends. My making a bad joke does not diminish that.
https://t.co/4U8Dhv9XdC
Which is the problem when you treat people as concepts rather than individuals.
I still laugh at your description of Qat as like chewing a privet hedge for the hit of a double espresso.
Wise move
What do you think of Musk's comments here ?
IN or OUT Gibraltar remains a British Protectorate.
Spain will remember the Falklands.
Cameron would love to send a task force to save his reputation.
Boris would lead the task force.
Leaders have to lie too - especially in war, for the greater good.
Surely the finest system is the D'Hondt system used in our European elections?
European elections would go if we LEAVE the EU.
REMAIN should campaign to save the D'Hondt.
That's absolutely shit journalism, unless someone is quoted as saying "everyone round here believes X, but people are too scared to come forward", which isn't what they're saying here.
There's no need to ask me leading questions.
I am questioning the reports because I know that lies often get put out right at the beginning, nice easy ones to remember - the speedometer in the Princess Diana car stuck at 125mph; Jean-Charles de Menezes wearing a thick jacket with wires sticking out.
What's wrong with the method of questioning something and trying to debunk it before deciding whether to accept it?