Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
Shall we have a discussion about AV, the finest voting system know to man?
Surely the finest system is the D'Hondt system used in our European elections?
Why are you so desperate to discredit the eyewitnesses? The whole "understood" business is probably about the witness missing the first moments,..
Why does a newspaper quote what someone who was nearby says about what he didn't see himself and that directly conflicts with what one or more other witnesses say they did see, namely an altercation between two men before Jo Cox got involved?
That's absolutely shit journalism, unless someone is quoted as saying "everyone round here believes X, but people are too scared to come forward", which isn't what they're saying here.
There's no need to ask me leading questions.
I am questioning the reports because I know that lies often get put out right at the beginning, nice easy ones to remember - the speedometer in the Princess Diana car stuck at 125mph; Jean-Charles de Menezes wearing a thick jacket with wires sticking out.
What's wrong with the method of questioning something and trying to debunk it before deciding whether to accept it?
But the article clearly states what he saw, but that he didn't see the start. Reports are that it lasted several minutes (I recall 10-15). It is perfectly reasonable for an eye witness to only witness the second half, when the attack actually occurred.
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
I am.
Me too.
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.
He is very much in favour of Corporates avoiding tax via Luxembourg. So not all bad.
Any side of this attempting to make political capital will pay for it - just as the Spanish Government did when they tried to turn the train bombings into anti separatist political capital.
Her thoughts on the issues are also getting a good deal of coverage on Buzzfeed and The Guardian. Nothing is really sacred these days. What an evil day.
At long last a witness has now been named (in the Guardian) who claims to have heard the "Britain First" shouting. Called Graeme Howard, he must have very good hearing, because he says he heard the man shout "Britain First" before the shooting, when he himself was still inside a building (perhaps his house in a nearby street), and then he ran outside when he heard a shot and subsequently also heard the man shout the same words during the arrest. And to cap it all, he says "He was shouting Britain First when he was doing it". It sounds as though it was an extremely intensive "hear the gunman shout 'Britain First'" day for Mr Howard!
As for those who think no capitalisation is going on, Jean-Claude Juncker has now climbed in on the act! He has tweeted that he is "Deeply shocked by news of terrible attack against MP Jo Cox. Thoughts and prayers with her husband and children."
Is anyone prepared to opine that Juncker's not capitalising?
I am.
Me too.
I'm of the view that Junker is actually rather a decent bloke.
He is very much in favour of Corporates avoiding tax via Luxembourg. So not all bad.
I really don't have a good feeling about this. One would assume the hospital would be providing updates on her condition, if there was any even remotely positive news to give.
Irrespective of this terrible incident, the betfair market was already swinging back to remain after this morning's polls- some serious money is being placed on remain...and it is placed after the price eases out.
Has it crossed your mind that there is some private polling going on that is being backed by some serious money? JackW- where has he gone? He has his finger on the private polling in my view. Do you think he's been slightly leant on? If not, and he is genuinely unwell, then I apologise fully.
Tyson, we had a post a week or so ago, I think from his son, saying that Jack W had been rushed into hospital and nothing more would be heard from him at least for a while. I think OGH has been in touch, but I havn’t seen an update, although as I don’t have this on permananet view I could well have missed something.
Damn. Best wishes to Jack and his family. First I had heard of it. Seems to be a day for bad news. :-(
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
I’m told, by people who have relatives there that the Gibraltarians are worried that Spain will use Britains exit as an excuse to put pressure on the Rock again.
Correct - Rajoy repeated it today. There is real fear among expats generally in Spain - and wholly justified among those who are elderly and not rich enough to contemplate private health care.
Personally, I don't feel this is the time for commenting on campaigns or on what a witness might have seen. Or indeed on political bets. I'm zoning out for a while.
Shall we have a discussion about AV, the finest voting system know to man?
Surely the finest system is the D'Hondt system used in our European elections?
Just as we should be careful not to automatically link in to any aspect of the referendum, we should be careful not to automatically not to. This could be a madman influenced by the far-right in general, or it could be a madman influenced by something specific that is going on now. The information so far doesn't say much, and until the police have released any more detailed information, it seems inadvisable to speculate.
Or he could be an EU plant, a member of the EU's secret assassination wing. He'll be found 'hanged' in prison, and everyone will forget about him. I think it's no coincidence that he's shaved his head.
One could be charitable and assume you're being ultra sarcastic but it is the latest in a number of flippant and inappropriate posts from you today.
I guess you were the kid in the playground who was disgusted when people made jokes in the wake of the Challenger disaster.
This is a tragedy, for Jo herself, and for her family and friends. My making a bad joke does not diminish that.
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
I know nothing about the subject. So here's my opinion....
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
Vote Remain or the Gibs get it?
Charming
IN or OUT Gibraltar remains a British Protectorate.
No.
British Overseas Territory (before that, British Dependent Territory, and before that British Crown Colony)
Whether he shouted Britain First or not is irrelevant. This is the work of a madman, let's not pretend it is some political statement.
It's not irrelevant at all. We just don't know.
If a Muslim shouted Allahu Akbar as he shot and stabbed an MP we'd all think that was pretty damn relevant. Same here. We need to know more.
When you say "we", I think you are referring to yourself.
Dangerous and unhinged people grab hold of ideologies to justify their deeds.
I'm not frightened to call out Islamist nuttery when I see it. Equally I accept the possibility that the far right can be violent, here and elsewhere. Breivik did his hideous killings in peaceable Norway, ffs
It's difficult not to see this as a pivotal moment in the campaign. If it had been a Syrian refugee we know it would have won it for OUT. We discussed these black swans many times. If it turns out it is some eurosceptic madman, eesh.
Today was the first day I was really uncomfortable with the LEAVE campaign. That UKIP poster. It's potent, but... No. If you go on Twitter you'll find it exactly mirrors stills from a nazi propaganda movie. Exactly.
I don't think Farage is a racist. I rather like him. But this was a definite error.
I don't think Farage is racist either. I think UKIP was looking for a picture that conveys immigrants as an invasion. They came across this one that seemed to fit the bill.. It wouldn't work if the picture was of someone who looked like your hard working cornershop owner or the cheery cleaner in your office.
Which is the problem when you treat people as concepts rather than individuals.
so Sean do you still hate REMAINIANS or have you now switched sides and become a TRAITOR (your words!)
Seriously though, just because there are madmen and racists who use patriotism as an excuse for racism, doesn't mean the concerns of half of the UK are wrong. Just because Britain First uses the cloak of patriotism and the Union Flag doesn't mean we cant be patriotic and use the Union Flag as a nation. No doubt there will be some who will try to capitalise on todays awful events for political advantage in this campaign for our future in Europe, which if they do weaponise this it is wrong because they will try to use it to smear anyone who has genuine concerns for the direction the country is going in and say they are all racists, shame on them. But I think the British Public will see through such opportunism
Her thoughts on the issues are also getting a good deal of coverage on Buzzfeed and The Guardian. Nothing is really sacred these days. What an evil day.
Given that there is absolutely no evidence that this attack has anything to do with 'diversity' in one way or another it is just plain dumb as well as being evil. Your choice of words is perfect.
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
I’m told, by people who have relatives there that the Gibraltarians are worried that Spain will use Britains exit as an excuse to put pressure on the Rock again.
Correct - Rajoy repeated it today. There is real fear among expats generally in Spain - and wholly justified among those who are elderly and not rich enough to contemplate private health care.
I have no sympathy for those who leech off the Spanish welfare state ans public services without ever having paid into the system. These expats (immigrants) should have to live by the same rules we want EU migrants to live by here. Pay into the system for a few years before qualifying for state assistance, including healthcare.
Spain already puts huge pressure on Gibraltar to my knowledge. Being in the EU has not stopped that. Surely the solution is to have appropriate defence measures in place, and let the potential agressor know you're prepared to use them, not staying in the EU in the hope this will make them be a bit nicer. It's like giving a bully your lunch money.
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
I’m told, by people who have relatives there that the Gibraltarians are worried that Spain will use Britains exit as an excuse to put pressure on the Rock again.
I wish the Spanish would read the Treaty of Utrecht.
I suspect the Treaty of Utrecht isn't quite as clear cut as Britain and Gibraltar make it out to be. I would prefer both Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands to assert their sovereignty based on the self determination of the people living there, rather than as colonies that states can claim or dispose of at will. In this case they can do what they want, with Britain guaranteeing their security as long as they act sensibly towards claimants on their territory, who are a lot bigger than they are
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
I’m told, by people who have relatives there that the Gibraltarians are worried that Spain will use Britains exit as an excuse to put pressure on the Rock again.
I wish the Spanish would read the Treaty of Utrecht.
I suspect the Treaty of Utrecht isn't quite as clear cut as Britain and Gibraltar make it out to be. I would prefer both Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands to assert their sovereignty based on the self determination of the people living there, rather than as colonies that states can claim or dispose of at will. In this case they can do what they want, with Britain guaranteeing their security as long as they act sensibly towards claimants on their territory, who are a lot bigger than they are
I suppose it does depend on what the treaty means by "the town and castle of Gibraltar, together with the port, fortifications, and forts thereunto belonging".
FPY Midwinter made the following interesting point
"Ed Miliband was campaigning in northern marginals on election day last year? Seems more likely Dave thinks hes going to win if he's in Gibraltar. Or he doesn't care any more."
Just before the last GE Dave was in St Ives. It was queried why on earth he was there given it was looking lost. Dave of course went onto win a stunning victory
Just saying
I was asking that question - I know nothing about Gib, but from comments on here it is (a) small number of voters (b) high turnout (c) nailed on for Remain. So why bother with Cameron?
Unless you need an excuse to keep him out of the UK...
Apparently, the new pitch for Remain is going to be:
"Vote Remain and ensure that David Cameron spends as little time in the UK as possible."
Derrr. Gib is all about the symbolism on British TV. "LOOK, this loyal and patriotic part of the Old Empire really wants us to STAY, otherwise the Spanish will use them for bayonet practice."
Could swing 50,000 votes in a very very tight plebiscite.
I’m told, by people who have relatives there that the Gibraltarians are worried that Spain will use Britains exit as an excuse to put pressure on the Rock again.
Correct - Rajoy repeated it today. There is real fear among expats generally in Spain - and wholly justified among those who are elderly and not rich enough to contemplate private health care.
I have no sympathy for those who leech off the Spanish welfare state ans public services without ever having paid into the system. These expats (immigrants) should have to live by the same rules we want EU migrants to live by here. Pay into the system for a few years before qualifying for state assistance, including healthcare.
So instead of having a few thousand hard working, tax paying , healthy Poles etc here, you’d rather have a few thousand (formerly) expat pensioners returning to use the NHS!
Why are you so desperate to discredit the eyewitnesses? The whole "understood" business is probably about the witness missing the first moments,..
Why does a newspaper quote what someone who was nearby says about what he didn't see himself and that directly conflicts with what one or more other witnesses say they did see, namely an altercation between two men before Jo Cox got involved?
That's absolutely shit journalism, unless someone is quoted as saying "everyone round here believes X, but people are too scared to come forward", which isn't what they're saying here.
There's no need to ask me leading questions.
I am questioning the reports because I know that lies often get put out right at the beginning, nice easy ones to remember - the speedometer in the Princess Diana car stuck at 125mph; Jean-Charles de Menezes wearing a thick jacket with wires sticking out.
What's wrong with the method of questioning something and trying to debunk it before deciding whether to accept it?
But the article clearly states what he saw, but that he didn't see the start. Reports are that it lasted several minutes (I recall 10-15). It is perfectly reasonable for an eye witness to only witness the second half, when the attack actually occurred.
The way I read the article, it quotes him as saying what he "understands" happened, or rather didn't happen, before he witnessed anything, but I wouldn't say it makes clear that his other statements are about what he witnessed directly. And for some reason "Britain First, Britain First, Britain First" gets reported twice in the same short piece.
Spain already puts huge pressure on Gibraltar to my knowledge. Being in the EU has not stopped that. Surely the solution is to have appropriate defence measures in place, and let the potential agressor know you're prepared to use them, not staying in the EU in the hope this will make them be a bit nicer. It's like giving a bully your lunch money.
If we Leave, Spain remain's a NATO ally of ours.
However, the real risk for Gibraltar is if the UK leaves the single market, given how the economy of the rock has evolved into financial services since the MoD massively scaled down its presence there from the late 80s onwards. I think the economy used to be 60% defence.
Therefore, I think Gib would need to stay in the EEA, at least or be given massive support to become an offshore haven - like a European Caymans, for instance - with a global outlook.
I don't know what the long term solution with Spain is. Inside or outside the EU they will continue to be a massive pain in the arse about it.
Why are you so desperate to discredit the eyewitnesses? The whole "understood" business is probably about the witness missing the first moments,..
Why does a newspaper quote what someone who was nearby says about what he didn't see himself and that directly conflicts with what one or more other witnesses say they did see, namely an altercation between two men before Jo Cox got involved?
That's absolutely shit journalism, unless someone is quoted as saying "everyone round here believes X, but people are too scared to come forward", which isn't what they're saying here.
There's no need to ask me leading questions.
I am questioning the reports because I know that lies often get put out right at the beginning, nice easy ones to remember - the speedometer in the Princess Diana car stuck at 125mph; Jean-Charles de Menezes wearing a thick jacket with wires sticking out.
What's wrong with the method of questioning something and trying to debunk it before deciding whether to accept it?
But the article clearly states what he saw, but that he didn't see the start. Reports are that it lasted several minutes (I recall 10-15). It is perfectly reasonable for an eye witness to only witness the second half, when the attack actually occurred.
The way I read the article, it quotes him as saying what he "understands" happened, or rather didn't happen, before he witnessed anything, but I wouldn't say it makes clear that his other statements are about what he witnessed directly. And for some reason "Britain First, Britain First, Britain First" gets reported twice in the same short piece.
Here is another article with more information from the same witness. This one is caveated with "what sounds like" Britain First.
Spain already puts huge pressure on Gibraltar to my knowledge. Being in the EU has not stopped that. Surely the solution is to have appropriate defence measures in place, and let the potential agressor know you're prepared to use them, not staying in the EU in the hope this will make them be a bit nicer. It's like giving a bully your lunch money.
If we Leave, Spain remain's a NATO ally of ours.
However, the real risk for Gibraltar is if the UK leaves the single market, given how the economy of the rock has evolved into financial services since the MoD massively scaled down its presence there from the late 80s onwards. I think the economy used to be 60% defence.
Therefore, I think Gib would need to stay in the EEA, at least or be given massive support to become an offshore haven - like a European Caymans, for instance - with a global outlook.
I don't know what the long term solution with Spain is. Inside or outside the EU they will continue to be a massive pain in the arse about it.
Does Article 5 get invoked if there is an attack on one NATO member by another?
To be honest unless this guy was pictured with his arm round farage or something I dont think it is relevant.
Britain First is little to do with the EU and leaving would likely bring in more of their non preferred guests not less.
Those trying to link the referendum to it will be judged harshly by the public I expect
Yeah I agree, maybe if the allegation was that he shouted "UKIP" loads it would be relevant, but I suspect most of the general public have never even heard of Britain First.
Any side of this attempting to make political capital will pay for it - just as the Spanish Government did when they tried to turn the train bombings into anti separatist political capital.
There's no point discussing this in the context of the referendum, including to condemn the raising of it. Jo Cox talked about the value of immigration in her maiden speech, presumably because it was important to her. Others may disagree. Now she is shot and so there it is.
"I still laugh at your description of Qat as like chewing a privet hedge for the hit of a double espresso."
Did Mr. T., really say that?
"Howls of laughter"
yes it ranks as one of my PB best.
I also enjoyed the Huhne cheating on expenses and buying a trouser press described as him " having the riches of creases".
I wish I could remember who came up with that one - genius.
The sledging of Adam Afriye was my favourite.
Probably not appropriate for today though
must have missed that one.
I remember Monica getting told to for playing the ball and not the man when we first saw a photo of James Kelly who was a bit more "robust" than his avatar implied. To which the retort came, but what if I can't tell the difference ?
I completely agree. It is reminiscent of how some (fortunately very few) politicians and commentators jumped onto the bandwagon driven by Anders Breivik. When I saw this, I actually first thought it was the Spectator's Paul Johnson, before realising it was the Guardian guy supposedly selling a pro-immigration message not an anti one.
The only good thing that comes from an event like this is that it reminds us we are fortunate to live in a country that still finds it genuinely shocking.
Shit she died... How bloody awful.. A really distressing day for British democracy in that MPs have always been available and approachable. That may be about to change. RIP Jo
Spain already puts huge pressure on Gibraltar to my knowledge. Being in the EU has not stopped that. Surely the solution is to have appropriate defence measures in place, and let the potential agressor know you're prepared to use them, not staying in the EU in the hope this will make them be a bit nicer. It's like giving a bully your lunch money.
If we Leave, Spain remain's a NATO ally of ours.
However, the real risk for Gibraltar is if the UK leaves the single market, given how the economy of the rock has evolved into financial services since the MoD massively scaled down its presence there from the late 80s onwards. I think the economy used to be 60% defence.
Therefore, I think Gib would need to stay in the EEA, at least or be given massive support to become an offshore haven - like a European Caymans, for instance - with a global outlook.
I don't know what the long term solution with Spain is. Inside or outside the EU they will continue to be a massive pain in the arse about it.
Does Article 5 get invoked if there is an attack on one NATO member by another?
"The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security ."
The apposite phrase being "such action as it deems necessary". Which might mean 'not a lot'.
There was a study of serial killers in the US and a frightening proportion of them said Catcher in the Rye was their favourite book.
My reading is largely limited to Asian art, Italian art and the EU so I had to Google it. First paragraph on Wikipedia contained this:
"A controversial novel originally published for adults, it has since become popular with adolescent readers for its themes of teenage angst and alienation."
There was a study of serial killers in the US and a frightening proportion of them said Catcher in the Rye was their favourite book.
My reading is largely limited to Asian art, Italian art and the EU so I had to Google it. First paragraph on Wikipedia contained this:
"A controversial novel originally published for adults, it has since become popular with adolescent readers for its themes of teenage angst and alienation."
Mr. Max, in the same way as those who kill policemen get that sort of sentence, it should apply here.
Agreed - while they are still mere mortals like you and I, they do represent something more. Murdering one is an attack not just on them, but on our entire system of democracy.
Mr. Max, in the same way as those who kill policemen get that sort of sentence, it should apply here.
Agreed - while they are still mere mortals like you and I, they do represent something more. Murdering one is an attack not just on them, but on our entire system of democracy.
Absolutely right. I'm not a fan of capital punishment, however in this case he deserves nothing else. Try him for treason and have him hanged.
Comments
Oh look, my coat.
"I still laugh at your description of Qat as like chewing a privet hedge for the hit of a double espresso."
Did Mr. T., really say that?
"Howls of laughter"
He is very much in favour of Corporates avoiding tax via Luxembourg. So not all bad.
British Overseas Territory (before that, British Dependent Territory, and before that British Crown Colony)
It's never been a Protectorate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectorate#British_protectorates
I wasn't trying to score points of any kind. I thought the post was of interest.
Edit: I was referring to the Guardian journalist.
I also enjoyed the Huhne cheating on expenses and buying a trouser press described as him " having the riches of creases".
I wish I could remember who came up with that one - genius.
Seriously though, just because there are madmen and racists who use patriotism as an excuse for racism, doesn't mean the concerns of half of the UK are wrong. Just because Britain First uses the cloak of patriotism and the Union Flag doesn't mean we cant be patriotic and use the Union Flag as a nation. No doubt there will be some who will try to capitalise on todays awful events for political advantage in this campaign for our future in Europe, which if they do weaponise this it is wrong because they will try to use it to smear anyone who has genuine concerns for the direction the country is going in and say they are all racists, shame on them. But I think the British Public will see through such opportunism
Earlier I posted BBC report which said man who shot Jo Cox shouted "Britain First". Doubts now cast on his words.
Probably not appropriate for today though
Update - 52-year-old man arrested after Labour MP Jo Cox was shot in street outside her constituency surgery has been named as Tommy Mair
Britain First is little to do with the EU and leaving would likely bring in more of their non preferred guests not less.
Those trying to link the referendum to it will be judged harshly by the public I expect
now of course he's a gaylord poncyboots and it's top class merlot and a mug of cocoa before bed at 10.
However, the real risk for Gibraltar is if the UK leaves the single market, given how the economy of the rock has evolved into financial services since the MoD massively scaled down its presence there from the late 80s onwards. I think the economy used to be 60% defence.
Therefore, I think Gib would need to stay in the EEA, at least or be given massive support to become an offshore haven - like a European Caymans, for instance - with a global outlook.
I don't know what the long term solution with Spain is. Inside or outside the EU they will continue to be a massive pain in the arse about it.
http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/jo-cox-attack-britain-first-11483296
I remember Monica getting told to for playing the ball and not the man when we first saw a photo of James Kelly who was a bit more "robust" than his avatar implied. To which the retort came, but what if I can't tell the difference ?
I'm off for a strong drink with loved ones. Best wishes to sage commentators on here, but no more internet for me today.
A really distressing day for British democracy in that MPs have always been available and approachable. That may be about to change.
RIP Jo
Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security ."
The apposite phrase being "such action as it deems necessary". Which might mean 'not a lot'.
RIP.
:-(
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClFdA9IWEAAnaOr.jpg
"A controversial novel originally published for adults, it has since become popular with adolescent readers for its themes of teenage angst and alienation."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Catcher_in_the_Rye
How truly sad.
Her poor husband has to now explain to her children that there are people like Tommy Mair in the world who are twisted enough to kill their mummy.
Awful.