politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Latest YouGov poll suggests Remain might see a caTaffstroph

The Archbishop of Canterbury is coming out with some incredibly helpful lines for Remain and damaging for Farage

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

Dunno if posted earlier but this spreadsheet is good
https://twitter.com/chrishanretty/status/740112760411938817

SeanT said:

blackburn63 said:

SeanT said:

OldKingCole said:

SeanT said:

OldKingCole said:

not_on_fire said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

not_on_fire said:

Vote Leave has been reported to the elections regulator for potentially “misleading” people who are trying to register to vote.

The campaign to leave the EU appears to have purchased an advert on the Google search engine that places its website at the top of UK search results for “register to vote”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vote-leave-accused-of-disenfranchising-people-trying-to-register-to-vote-with-misleading-website-a7068661.html

That's much worse than the 9 million advert.

Vote Leave should be ashamed of themselves.

Vote Leave has some nasty pieces of work in their corner. Look at Plato's comment on the previous thread re: preferring Koreans to Bulgarians.

It’s led by some nasty pieces of work.

How many Korean immigrants do you see living under flyovers, or selling the Big Issue?

"Bulgarians" is code for Roma, and no matter how much we tiptoe around the subject, there are big social issues surrounding Roma, and not very nice ones in the main.

It's just the case.

I thought the code word was Romanians.

Stop being a disingenuous tit.

And - by the by - if you want to hear real racism, then try asking non-Roma Bulgarians, Czechs, Slovakians, Hungarians, etc, here in the UK, what they think of their own Roma - aka gypsy - populations.

I know some Romanians, about 5 years ago they said we would be mad to let Roma people into the UK.

I was told the same thing by lots of Eastern Europeans, for many years. We all know this is the truth, but supercilious wankers, on PB and elsewhere, would rather signal their personal virtues, than face facts.

Voting REMAIN in this Referendum would be the epitome of virtue signalling in a world full of virtue signalling.

TheScreamingEagles said:

The Archbishop of Canterbury is coming out with some incredibly helpful lines for Remain and damaging for Farage

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

We had the politician interference of the church with anti-Tory stuff leading up the GE and I doubt it changed any votes. When people talk about how the papers / traditional media are having less of an effect on changing people's vote, the influence of the church to shift the needle has been reduced to square root of f##k all.

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

The left are coming hard at Farage on this one. Saint Shami, the Venerable Doreen Lawrence and Ayatollah Warsi too.

taffys said:

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

The left are coming hard at Farage on this one. Saint Shami, the Venerable Doreen Lawrence and Ayatollah Warsi too.

Is it racism to point out that one particular religion has a different attitude to women?

TheScreamingEagles said:

not_on_fire said:

Vote Leave has been reported to the elections regulator for potentially “misleading” people who are trying to register to vote.

The campaign to leave the EU appears to have purchased an advert on the Google search engine that places its website at the top of UK search results for “register to vote”.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vote-leave-accused-of-disenfranchising-people-trying-to-register-to-vote-with-misleading-website-a7068661.html

That's much worse than the 9 million advert.
Vote Leave should be ashamed of themselves.

The Conservatives running the Leave campaign should be ashamed of themselves.

But dirty tricks are all they know.

tlg86 said:

taffys said:

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

The left are coming hard at Farage on this one. Saint Shami, the Venerable Doreen Lawrence and Ayatollah Warsi too.

Is Farage scaremongering? Undoubtedly. Is it any worse than the scaremongering by Remain? No.

That's horseshit. Most economists from either side agree there's a downside, short term at least, to Leaving. Nobody other than Farage is suggesting gangs of Eastern European rapists are going to be roaming the streets of English towns violating English girls.

David_Evershed said:

taffys said:

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

The left are coming hard at Farage on this one. Saint Shami, the Venerable Doreen Lawrence and Ayatollah Warsi too.

Is it racism to point out that one particular religion has a different attitude to women?

Religionism

But most BME cultures are more sexist and homophobic than "evil Whitey" culture.

midwinter said:

tlg86 said:

taffys said:

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

The left are coming hard at Farage on this one. Saint Shami, the Venerable Doreen Lawrence and Ayatollah Warsi too.

Is Farage scaremongering? Undoubtedly. Is it any worse than the scaremongering by Remain? No.

That's horseshit. Most economists from either side agree there's a downside, short term at least, to Leaving. Nobody other than Farage is suggesting gangs of Eastern European rapists are going to be roaming the streets of English towns violating English girls.

yeah but give it a week and Dave and George will catch him up.

PlatoSaid said:

not_on_fire said:

PlatoSaid said:

taffys said:

''Oh do grow up. It's precisely this sort childish stuff that's losing Labour tens of thousands of voters. ''

Remainers are desperate to avoid a debate on quality of immigrant for some reason. I don't really understand it.

Me neither. Accusing us of xenophobia has me honking with laughter.

It's so daft.

There is no "us" - there are plenty of people in the Leave campaign who don't share your views on world geography, which appear to be based on The Sun.

LOL

Do keep on posting. This is most amusing.

You either phrased your post extremely thoughtlessly or got caught out. I'd imagine the former. Just admit it.

Alanbrooke said:

midwinter said:

tlg86 said:

taffys said:

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

The left are coming hard at Farage on this one. Saint Shami, the Venerable Doreen Lawrence and Ayatollah Warsi too.

Is Farage scaremongering? Undoubtedly. Is it any worse than the scaremongering by Remain? No.

That's horseshit. Most economists from either side agree there's a downside, short term at least, to Leaving. Nobody other than Farage is suggesting gangs of Eastern European rapists are going to be roaming the streets of English towns violating English girls.

yeah but give it a week and Dave and George will catch him up.

Gangs of Leavers roaming the streets?

midwinter said:

tlg86 said:

taffys said:

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

The left are coming hard at Farage on this one. Saint Shami, the Venerable Doreen Lawrence and Ayatollah Warsi too.

Is Farage scaremongering? Undoubtedly. Is it any worse than the scaremongering by Remain? No.

That's horseshit. Most economists from either side agree there's a downside, short term at least, to Leaving. Nobody other than Farage is suggesting gangs of Eastern European rapists are going to be roaming the streets of English towns violating English girls.

World War 3?

tlg86 said:

midwinter said:

tlg86 said:

taffys said:

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

The left are coming hard at Farage on this one. Saint Shami, the Venerable Doreen Lawrence and Ayatollah Warsi too.

Is Farage scaremongering? Undoubtedly. Is it any worse than the scaremongering by Remain? No.

That's horseshit. Most economists from either side agree there's a downside, short term at least, to Leaving. Nobody other than Farage is suggesting gangs of Eastern European rapists are going to be roaming the streets of English towns violating English girls.

World War 3?

Really?

Another good idea gone wrong. According to the BBC "vehicle tax collected fell £200m after paper discs axed."

midwinter said:

tlg86 said:

midwinter said:

tlg86 said:

taffys said:

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

The left are coming hard at Farage on this one. Saint Shami, the Venerable Doreen Lawrence and Ayatollah Warsi too.

Is Farage scaremongering? Undoubtedly. Is it any worse than the scaremongering by Remain? No.

That's horseshit. Most economists from either side agree there's a downside, short term at least, to Leaving. Nobody other than Farage is suggesting gangs of Eastern European rapists are going to be roaming the streets of English towns violating English girls.

World War 3?

Really?

When he was flagging last night, the last refuge for Hilary Benn was peace in Europe.

david_herdson said:

dr_spyn said:

BBC News reports about cricket in Germany as one of the benefits of migration from Afghanistan and Pakistan.

The benefit being that cricket will soon be something else that Germany beat us at?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cricket_in_Germany

SeanT said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

The Archbishop of Canterbury is coming out with some incredibly helpful lines for Remain and damaging for Farage

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

ROFL yes, that really will turn back the tide of "stuff the establishment".

Old Etonian, scion of posh boys and Archbishop says the plebs must behave from his London palace.

REMAIN should get the Dukes of Westminster and Buccleuch to broadcast live from Blenheim Palace, attired in their ducal ermine, so they can explain to the little man on the Clapham Omnibus how unchecked mass immigration has no effect on working class wages.

Typical Leaver living in the sepia-tinted past.

The man on the Clapham Omnibus these days lives in a £2m terraced house just off the Common.

An interesting anecdote which is perhaps revealing of broader section of the electorate: I had a conversation with a person who has consistently expressed vehement eurosceptic views to me and who I thought would be a nailed on Leave voter but instead is fearful of it actually happening. There is a strand of opinion that would be first in the queue to vote Leave as a protest, but if given the casting vote would chose Remain. The more it looks like Leave has a chance, the more these voters will evaporate in the voting booth.

OldKingCole said:

Another good idea gone wrong. According to the BBC "vehicle tax collected fell £200m after paper discs axed."

This is my chance to say (again):
-MOT garages should give out an MOT disc (for insurance)
-VED should be axed
-Put it on fuel duty - no-one will notice and it will be fair as regards road use/fuel use/size of vehicle
-Retrain the VED admin workforce as some sort of banking help centre and repatriate some business from India.

MaxPB said:

I think if he does the audience may turn on him.

I think a bit of masochism from Cameron would actually do the Remain campaign some good. If he could bring all the anti-establishment ire down upon himself he could make a clear case that he is yesterday's man so you should set aside any views you have about him and vote based on the future.

PlatoSaid said:

MaxPB said:

Just to note, I remember saying that Remain were deploying project fear far too early. The IMF "warning" about Brexit was about two weeks ago, and at the time I was assured that it was the right time and the drip drip effect would outweigh the big bang of doing it later, and getting the information out early would lay the foundation of a remain argument which could refer to these reports. I wonder whether Dodgy Dave will try to tap up these dodgy reports tonight. I think if he does the audience may turn on him.

Isn't there another IMF scare story due next week?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_Missions_Force

Luckyguy1983 - some australian states put 3rd party insurance on fuel as well.

PlatoSaid said:

MaxPB said:

Just to note, I remember saying that Remain were deploying project fear far too early. The IMF "warning" about Brexit was about two weeks ago, and at the time I was assured that it was the right time and the drip drip effect would outweigh the big bang of doing it later, and getting the information out early would lay the foundation of a remain argument which could refer to these reports. I wonder whether Dodgy Dave will try to tap up these dodgy reports tonight. I think if he does the audience may turn on him.

Isn't there another IMF scare story due next week?

Possibly, but that would make three, neither of the first two made any difference so I don't see another one making any difference. People don't believe that we can go from having the strongest economy among developed nations to a catastrophe overnight just by leaving the EU. It isn't a credible statement.

blackburn63 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

The Archbishop of Canterbury is coming out with some incredibly helpful lines for Remain and damaging for Farage

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

The AoC is an increasingly irrelevant figure.

A throwback to a better class of satire:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryWVRS4aehM

French Populism Rising

Le Pen 28%
Sarkozy 21%
Hollande 14%
(Le Monde)

''I am also not convinced that Plaid Cymru's strongholds in the North and West will follow their party.''

There's something a bit weird about a party of independence calling for remaining in the EU.

From that Yougov GMB poll. Conservative 2015 voters on Dave Cameron
37% still trust him
56% do not trust him.

Ugly stuff when he can only attract just over 1/3 of the folk who voted Conservative a year ago.

Also loving the disrespec' to the Archbishop of Canterbury.

The very quintessence of Britain? An icon for all things Leavers hold dear about the UK in all its magnificence? Surely it is to his holy communion that the old maids are cycling?

Nah, some idiot who doesn't know anything about anything.

SeanT said:

Alanbrooke said:

midwinter said:

Alanbrooke said:

midwinter said:

tlg86 said:

taffys said:

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

The left are coming hard at Farage on this one. Saint Shami, the Venerable Doreen Lawrence and Ayatollah Warsi too.

Is Farage scaremongering? Undoubtedly. Is it any worse than the scaremongering by Remain? No.

That's horseshit. Most economists from either side agree there's a downside, short term at least, to Leaving. Nobody other than Farage is suggesting gangs of Eastern European rapists are going to be roaming the streets of English towns violating English girls.

yeah but give it a week and Dave and George will catch him up.

Gangs of Leavers roaming the streets?

Why not, we;ve had just about every other sort of bollocks over the last three months.

Feral gangs of bestial kipper fanatics will hump little old ladies poodles in front of them, nobody will have any money and the country will just become a huge foodbank, all our houses will collapse and you can buy a palace for a knee trembler or 20 silk cut.

There's no monopoly on stupid claims in this campaign.

Labour's "suggestion", today, that LEAVING the EU would bring an "end to paid holidays" was still pretty special.

https://twitter.com/93_smithereens/status/740132396541091840

Does anybody genuinely believe if we left the EU the government would just get rid of all of those. Given they had to back track on reducing tax credits etc, the chance of any serious changes are zilch. The media, the unions, politicians would go into over drive screaming against any changes to these.

Also stuff like equal pay act was 1970 and nothing to do with EU. And I seemed to remember all the rights on maturity / paternity leave again were down to Labour government (and more recently Coalition) wanting to promote this stuff, again nothing to do with EU directives.

Still in two minds about how to vote.

On the one hand, the more I've thought about it the last few weeks, the more I think "Remain" is the better choice. Not for this crap about how there'll be World War 3 and an economic apocalypse if we leave, or because of the naive Guardianista argument about Britain being "outward-facing" -- but because I think the power of big multinational businesses is one of the big issues of the time, and it seems to me that the only way of getting them into line (i.e. paying their taxes, treating their workers decently, giving the decent small businesses a decent shot at competing) is by countries clubbing together and taking joint measures. If the West doesn't put up a "united front" on those issues, then the Googles of the world will be able to play one country off against another, saying "this country doesn't make us pay taxes or pay our workers decently, therefore we'll move all our jobs there if you insist we do those things", etcetc.

However, even though I think purely on the issue that I want to Remain, I really don't want to endorse the official Remain Campaign's strategy. It's basically been everything I hate about political campaigning: lazy and negative, telling people simply to trust the "experts" without critically analysing the "experts"' arguments, getting employers to send out Victorian-style threats to their employees that if they don't vote a certain way then they'll get the sack, egging on foreign leaders to threaten the country. It's been disgusting and unpatriotic, and I don't want to encourage them to use this lazy "don't rock the boat / just switch your brain off and do what nanny tells you" strategy again and again in future.

SeanT said:

Alanbrooke said:

midwinter said:

Alanbrooke said:

midwinter said:

tlg86 said:

taffys said:

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

The left are coming hard at Farage on this one. Saint Shami, the Venerable Doreen Lawrence and Ayatollah Warsi too.

Is Farage scaremongering? Undoubtedly. Is it any worse than the scaremongering by Remain? No.

That's horseshit. Most economists from either side agree there's a downside, short term at least, to Leaving. Nobody other than Farage is suggesting gangs of Eastern European rapists are going to be roaming the streets of English towns violating English girls.

yeah but give it a week and Dave and George will catch him up.

Gangs of Leavers roaming the streets?

Why not, we;ve had just about every other sort of bollocks over the last three months.

Feral gangs of bestial kipper fanatics will hump little old ladies poodles in front of them, nobody will have any money and the country will just become a huge foodbank, all our houses will collapse and you can buy a palace for a knee trembler or 20 silk cut.

There's no monopoly on stupid claims in this campaign.

Labour's "suggestion", today, that LEAVING the EU would bring an "end to paid holidays" was still pretty special.

https://twitter.com/93_smithereens/status/740132396541091840

I cannot wait to repeal the 1839 factories Act and employ some really cheap child labour. I paid 150 Quid to have my chimney swept today and repaired a total disgrace. A bright button and half an orange is all they will get post June 23rd.

SeanT said:

MaxPB said:

Just to note, I remember saying that Remain were deploying project fear far too early. The IMF "warning" about Brexit was about two weeks ago, and at the time I was assured that it was the right time and the drip drip effect would outweigh the big bang of doing it later, and getting the information out early would lay the foundation of a remain argument which could refer to these reports. I wonder whether Dodgy Dave will try to tap up these dodgy reports tonight. I think if he does the audience may turn on him.

I agree. REMAIN have badly misjudged the timing - their narrative has been like a badly plotted novel, with all the big action at the beginning then a gradual slowing. And I speak as SK K TREMAYNE, NUMBER ONE BESTSELLING SUNDAY TIMES NOVELIST, AND AUTHOR OF "THE FIRE CHILD"*

I guess they were worried about Purdah but it was still front loaded to a ridiculous degree.

They should have kept two or three big weapons back, but I don't see any evidence of such. They are simply repeating the same slogans now and the returns rapidly diminish, and possibly go into reverse.

*published next week

My wife tells me that it is one of Good Housekeeping's 5 hot reads for the summer. Hope the excitement of that is not too much for you.

PlatoSaid said:

williamglenn said:

MaxPB said:

I think if he does the audience may turn on him.

I think a bit of masochism from Cameron would actually do the Remain campaign some good. If he could bring all the anti-establishment ire down upon himself he could make a clear case that he is yesterday's man so you should set aside any views you have about him and vote based on the future.

What? Copy Tony Blair over Iraq and his masochism strategy? Well, it's a tactic I suppose.

How many elections did Blair lose?

SeanT said:

Alanbrooke said:

midwinter said:

Alanbrooke said:

midwinter said:

tlg86 said:

taffys said:

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

The left are coming hard at Farage on this one. Saint Shami, the Venerable Doreen Lawrence and Ayatollah Warsi too.

Is Farage scaremongering? Undoubtedly. Is it any worse than the scaremongering by Remain? No.

That's horseshit. Most economists from either side agree there's a downside, short term at least, to Leaving. Nobody other than Farage is suggesting gangs of Eastern European rapists are going to be roaming the streets of English towns violating English girls.

yeah but give it a week and Dave and George will catch him up.

Gangs of Leavers roaming the streets?

Why not, we;ve had just about every other sort of bollocks over the last three months.

Feral gangs of bestial kipper fanatics will hump little old ladies poodles in front of them, nobody will have any money and the country will just become a huge foodbank, all our houses will collapse and you can buy a palace for a knee trembler or 20 silk cut.

There's no monopoly on stupid claims in this campaign.

Labour's "suggestion", today, that LEAVING the EU would bring an "end to paid holidays" was still pretty special.

https://twitter.com/93_smithereens/status/740132396541091840

Ive often wondered who actually sees these posters . If it wasnt for PB I wouldnt be aware any of them exist. Presumably it's to keep the twitterati frothing.

SeanT said:

OldKingCole said:

SeanT said:

OldKingCole said:

not_on_fire said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

not_on_fire said:

Vote Leave has been reported to the elections regulator for potentially “misleading” people who are trying to register to vote.

The campaign to leave the EU appears to have purchased an advert on the Google search engine that places its website at the top of UK search results for “register to vote”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vote-leave-accused-of-disenfranchising-people-trying-to-register-to-vote-with-misleading-website-a7068661.html

That's much worse than the 9 million advert.

Vote Leave should be ashamed of themselves.

Vote Leave has some nasty pieces of work in their corner. Look at Plato's comment on the previous thread re: preferring Koreans to Bulgarians.

It’s led by some nasty pieces of work.

How many Korean immigrants do you see living under flyovers, or selling the Big Issue?

"Bulgarians" is code for Roma, and no matter how much we tiptoe around the subject, there are big social issues surrounding Roma, and not very nice ones in the main.

It's just the case.

I thought the code word was Romanians.

Stop being a disingenuous tit.

And - by the by - if you want to hear real racism, then try asking non-Roma Bulgarians, Czechs, Slovakians, Hungarians, etc, here in the UK, what they think of their own Roma - aka gypsy - populations.

Is the Czech club in Willesden still there? Used to go there for a late drink in the 90s. The guv'ner was very proud of his "no gypsies" sign on the door. Police kept threatening him. The Standard reported it. I argued with him but was told firmly that I didn't know WTF I was talking about and all the Czech patrons were on board.

Danny565 said:

Still in two minds about how to vote.

On the one hand, the more I've thought about it the last few weeks, the more I think "Remain" is the better choice. Not for this crap about how there'll be World War 3 and an economic apocalypse if we leave, or because of the naive Guardianista argument about Britain being "outward-facing" -- but because I think the power of big multinational businesses is one of the big issues of the time, and it seems to me that the only way of getting them into line (i.e. paying their taxes, treating their workers decently, giving the decent small businesses a decent shot at competing) is by countries clubbing together and taking joint measures. If the West doesn't put up a "united front" on those issues, then the Googles of the world will be able to play one country off against another, saying "this country doesn't make us pay taxes or pay our workers decently, therefore we'll move all our jobs there if you insist we do those things", etcetc.

However, even though I think purely on the issue that I want to Remain, I really don't want to endorse the official Remain Campaign's strategy. It's basically been everything I hate about political campaigning: lazy and negative, telling people simply to trust the "experts" without critically analysing the "experts"' arguments, getting employers to send out Victorian-style threats to their employees that if they don't vote a certain way then they'll get the sack, egging on foreign leaders to threaten the country. It's been disgusting and unpatriotic, and I don't want to encourage them to use this lazy "don't rock the boat / just switch your brain off and do what nanny tells you" strategy again and again in future.

See how the polls and betting markets are on the day.

Then vote for whichever side you think will lose

MarkHopkins said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

OldKingCole said:

Another good idea gone wrong. According to the BBC "vehicle tax collected fell £200m after paper discs axed."

This is my chance to say (again):
-MOT garages should give out an MOT disc (for insurance)
-VED should be axed
-Put it on fuel duty - no-one will notice and it will be fair as regards road use/fuel use/size of vehicle
-Retrain the VED admin workforce as some sort of banking help centre and repatriate some business from India.

It's all done electronically these days, so there's no need for an MOT dics at all.

You can check TAX and MOT here...

https://www.vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/

But not very successfully if £200m of it is going missing.

Danny565 said:

Still in two minds about how to vote.

On the one hand, the more I've thought about it the last few weeks, the more I think "Remain" is the better choice. Not for this crap about how there'll be World War 3 and an economic apocalypse if we leave, or because of the naive Guardianista argument about Britain being "outward-facing" -- but because I think the power of big multinational businesses is one of the big issues of the time, and it seems to me that the only way of getting them into line (i.e. paying their taxes, treating their workers decently, giving the decent small businesses a decent shot at competing) is by countries clubbing together and taking joint measures. If the West doesn't put up a "united front" on those issues, then the Googles of the world will be able to play one country off against another, saying "this country doesn't make us pay taxes or pay our workers decently, therefore we'll move all our jobs there if you insist we do those things", etcetc.

However, even though I think purely on the issue that I want to Remain, I really don't want to endorse the official Remain Campaign's strategy. It's basically been everything I hate about political campaigning: lazy and negative, telling people simply to trust the "experts" without critically analysing the "experts"' arguments, getting employers to send out Victorian-style threats to their employees that if they don't vote a certain way then they'll get the sack, egging on foreign leaders to threaten the country. It's been disgusting and unpatriotic, and I don't want to encourage them to use this lazy "don't rock the boat / just switch your brain off and do what nanny tells you" strategy again and again in future.

Agree with you entirely that the Remain campaign has been crap, and a lot of this stuff has misfired - the Obama intervention seemed to go down particularly badly with undecideds I know. On the other hand, I don't think the Leave campaign has been any better, particularly since they have started focusing entirely on immigration, just as scaremongering as Remain. So if you don't want to endorse the Remain campaign, do you really want to endorse the Leave campaign either?

Danny565 said:

Still in two minds about how to vote.

On the one hand, the more I've thought about it the last few weeks, the more I think "Remain" is the better choice. Not for this crap about how there'll be World War 3 and an economic apocalypse if we leave, or because of the naive Guardianista argument about Britain being "outward-facing" -- but because I think the power of big multinational businesses is one of the big issues of the time, and it seems to me that the only way of getting them into line (i.e. paying their taxes, treating their workers decently, giving the decent small businesses a decent shot at competing) is by countries clubbing together and taking joint measures. If the West doesn't put up a "united front" on those issues, then the Googles of the world will be able to play one country off against another, saying "this country doesn't make us pay taxes or pay our workers decently, therefore we'll move all our jobs there if you insist we do those things", etcetc.

However, even though I think purely on the issue that I want to Remain, I really don't want to endorse the official Remain Campaign's strategy. It's basically been everything I hate about political campaigning: lazy and negative, telling people simply to trust the "experts" without critically analysing the "experts"' arguments, getting employers to send out Victorian-style threats to their employees that if they don't vote a certain way then they'll get the sack, egging on foreign leaders to threaten the country. It's been disgusting and unpatriotic, and I don't want to encourage them to use this lazy "don't rock the boat / just switch your brain off and do what nanny tells you" strategy again and again in future.

Well here's some evidence for you on tax avoidance/evasion by multinationals. Our diverted profits tax was a decision taken unilaterally, we are one of the first countries in the world to enforce such an idea, the main anti-tax avoidance measures are being done via the OECD, not the EU. Junker, head of the EC, was Prime Minister of Luxembourg when sweetheart tax deals with multinationals were signed that allowed loads of companies to pay a net rate of tax below 5%.

If we are going to beat corporate tax avoidance, the EU is not our friend in this fight, we will have to do it alone and co-operate with the OECD and the probably France on a bilateral basis. One of the four freedoms of the EU is free movement of capital, part of that means accepting that the tax system in the EU is only as strong as the weakest link and within the 28 nations there is a race to bottom already to be that weakest link and take over from Luxembourg and Ireland.

FrancisUrquhart said:

SeanT said:

Alanbrooke said:

midwinter said:

Alanbrooke said:

midwinter said:

tlg86 said:

taffys said:

ABoC: Farage's claim linking migrants to sex attacks is"inexcusable pandering" to prejudice and "legitimising racism"

The left are coming hard at Farage on this one. Saint Shami, the Venerable Doreen Lawrence and Ayatollah Warsi too.

Is Farage scaremongering? Undoubtedly. Is it any worse than the scaremongering by Remain? No.

That's horseshit. Most economists from either side agree there's a downside, short term at least, to Leaving. Nobody other than Farage is suggesting gangs of Eastern European rapists are going to be roaming the streets of English towns violating English girls.

yeah but give it a week and Dave and George will catch him up.

Gangs of Leavers roaming the streets?

Why not, we;ve had just about every other sort of bollocks over the last three months.

Feral gangs of bestial kipper fanatics will hump little old ladies poodles in front of them, nobody will have any money and the country will just become a huge foodbank, all our houses will collapse and you can buy a palace for a knee trembler or 20 silk cut.

There's no monopoly on stupid claims in this campaign.

Labour's "suggestion", today, that LEAVING the EU would bring an "end to paid holidays" was still pretty special.

https://twitter.com/93_smithereens/status/740132396541091840

Does anybody genuinely believe if we left the EU the government would just get rid of all of those. Given they had to back track on reducing tax credits etc, the chance of any serious changes are zilch. The media, the unions, politicians would go into over drive screaming against any changes to these.

Also stuff like equal pay act was 1970 and nothing to do with EU. And I seemed to remember all the rights on maturity / paternity leave again were down to Labour government (and more recently Coalition) wanting to promote this stuff, again nothing to do with EU directives.

The silly hyperbole hides a bit of a double standard from BOO - defending worker's rights as inherently British and deriding the working time directive as a huge and unnecessary expense on British businesses.

"ECJ ruling says EU countries can't imprison migrants for crossing borders in schengen "

Not particularly good timing for remain