Libertarian Rebel The "leaders" of #Remain. Remember them? Apart fm Rudd & Lucas, anyone seen or heard any of them lately? No: nor me! https://t.co/g9dQIWJZSO
Is that your opinion of FPTP General Elections too?
Poor.
The UK doesn't ignore General Election verdicts.
The UK Government is now making it clear it would ignore a Leave vote.
No, it's making it clear that in the democratically elected MPs may opt to stay in the Single Market in the event of a Leave vote. Since the EU is not the same as the Single Market, what's the problem?
You're missing the latest take. Lord Astor (Cameron's father in law) has gone beyond the sort-of ignore the referendum and stay-in-the-single-market thing, he's now saying that MPs would (and should) completely ignore this ADVISORY referendum, and simply not pass the legislation to get us out.
For what it's worth, I don't think many MPs would be insane enough to try this, but the fact Establishment figures are coming out with this sinister bilge is really quite startling.
I reakon a lot of this "we'll ignore the referendum" stuff is just bluster. A bit like how Brown thought he might be able to ignore the will of the British people in 2010 and cling on to power.
We know how that worked out...
At least I hope it's just bluster. My opinion of David Cameron is poor but I don't think he's an anti-democratic dictator. Is he?
It's how the EU operates and we've been part of that for a good many years now. MPs are acclimatised.
On one hand we have remainers proclaiming 70-30 thrashings and on the other we have Remainers trying to work out how to sabotage the result when they lose.
Is that your opinion of FPTP General Elections too?
Poor.
The UK doesn't ignore General Election verdicts.
The UK Government is now making it clear it would ignore a Leave vote.
No, it's making it clear that in the democratically elected MPs may opt to stay in the Single Market in the event of a Leave vote. Since the EU is not the same as the Single Market, what's the problem?
You're missing the latest take. Lord Astor (Cameron's father in law) has gone beyond the sort-of ignore the referendum and stay-in-the-single-market thing, he's now saying that MPs would (and should) completely ignore this ADVISORY referendum, and simply not pass the legislation to get us out.
For what it's worth, I don't think many MPs would be insane enough to try this, but the fact Establishment figures are coming out with this sinister bilge is really quite startling.
Cameron has to be quizzed on this tonight. Anything but a clear cut acceptance of the result will be remarkably bad for Remain.
Isn't invoking article 50 an action carried out by the executive power of the PM? Once he invokes article 50 we begin to leave, bypassing the will of Commons or Lords? So far he has said this will be an immediate action if the result is leave.
Perhaps you need to learn to read and understand a bit more carefully than assuming that I said things which I did not say.
It is those who say that something must not be said because it might lead others to make unwarranted conclusions who are afraid of the facts. And the AoC appears to fall into this category. As, I am afraid, do you. You seem quite unwilling to accept that some migrants have - on the evidence we have seen in Germany and elsewhere - an approach to women which many women find really quite repellent and which often involve breaches of our laws. Saying so is not pandering to prejudice or racism. Not talking about issues does not make them go away. It risks making them worse and it makes the victims of crimes feel abandoned. Please go and read the evidence - as I have - in some of the recent grooming cases in Britain if you want to know what the jury found. Or the report on Rotherham and why those crimes were ignored.
I have been a victim of serious sexual assault and I feel pretty angry when others either seek to diminish what women like me suffer because they daren't criticise the attacker or seek to make spurious political points out of our suffering.
You cannot deal with problems if you ignore them. If people like the AoC won't talk sensibly about the problems of sexual assault and the problems of young men coming from cultures with very different approaches to women and women's sexuality than our own then he can hardly complain if it is left to the Farages of this world to do so and to do so in a way which sheds more heat than light on the subject. .
How does this post differ from the speech made by Farage which nearly everyone except the most dyed-in-the-wool UKIPers found to be unacceptable stereotyping. For the benefit of Mortimer reading between the lines means a subtext. Not really necessary with this except for the first paragraph
I have no idea and no interest frankly. I speak for myself only. Farage leads a party I would never ever vote for. It is only in your imagination that you seem to think that a woman concerned about sexual assaults and the culture of silence which can grow up around such matters is somehow a Farageist and a racist. That is your problem not mine.
Anyway am off to a dinner at the NPG tonight and the Ulverston Music Festival tomorrow for Don Giovanni so may not check in again until next week.
@SkyNewsBreak: Bank of England figures show £65bn either left the UK or was converted into other currencies in the first two months of the #EUref campaign
Right so what you're saying is bumper tax receipts on foreign exchange. That's good news isnt it.
Is that your opinion of FPTP General Elections too?
Poor.
The UK doesn't ignore General Election verdicts.
The UK Government is now making it clear it would ignore a Leave vote.
No, it's making it clear that in the democratically elected MPs may opt to stay in the Single Market in the event of a Leave vote. Since the EU is not the same as the Single Market, what's the problem?
So why all the predictions of economic doom if the single market is not the same as the EU? There would literally be no economic impact in leaving the EU if that were the case.
@SkyNewsBreak: Bank of England figures show £65bn either left the UK or was converted into other currencies in the first two months of the #EUref campaign
Right so what you're saying is bumper tax receipts on foreign exchange. That's good news isnt it.
And what is the average per month
And what other factors are affecting this eg (higher interest rates in USA)?
Wonder if they'll go for the bear pit approach of Sky. Etchingham was widely praised for keeping the politicians in line when she chaired a debate last year.
Is that your opinion of FPTP General Elections too?
Poor.
The UK doesn't ignore General Election verdicts.
The UK Government is now making it clear it would ignore a Leave vote.
No, it's making it clear that in the democratically elected MPs may opt to stay in the Single Market in the event of a Leave vote. Since the EU is not the same as the Single Market, what's the problem?
You're missing the latest take. Lord Astor (Cameron's father in law) has gone beyond the sort-of ignore the referendum and stay-in-the-single-market thing, he's now saying that MPs would (and should) completely ignore this ADVISORY referendum, and simply not pass the legislation to get us out.
For what it's worth, I don't think many MPs would be insane enough to try this, but the fact Establishment figures are coming out with this sinister bilge is really quite startling.
Cameron has to be quizzed on this tonight. Anything but a clear cut acceptance of the result will be remarkably bad for Remain.
Isn't invoking article 50 an action carried out by the executive power of the PM? Once he invokes article 50 we begin to leave, bypassing the will of Commons or Lords? So far he has said this will be an immediate action if the result is leave.
Correct. The only absolute power Cameron has is in invoking Article 50. After that it will depend on his ability to take Parliament with him wherever he intends to go with a post Brexit settlement.
Given that the referendum was only abut in or out, Parliament is entitled to make its own decision about what it does next. Whether it would be wise to do so against the wishes of the country is another matter. But that is a political risk not a legal or constitutional issue.
Is that your opinion of FPTP General Elections too?
Poor.
The UK doesn't ignore General Election verdicts.
The UK Government is now making it clear it would ignore a Leave vote.
No, it's making it clear that in the democratically elected MPs may opt to stay in the Single Market in the event of a Leave vote. Since the EU is not the same as the Single Market, what's the problem?
Don't even try and talk to me.
I don't engage with autocrats and anti-democrats.
I work to defeat them.
I'm an anti-democrat for pointing out the right of our democratically elected legislature's right to decide on our future in the event of a Leave vote? If you want the people to decide perhaps you should be calling for an EEA vs EFTA vs WTO referendum. I'm sure the public can't wait.
Vote Leave have made it perfectly clear what their plan for Brexit is and any vote to Leave will be a mandate to act on the basis.
You are a spineless coward. Don't ever talk to me again.
Is that your opinion of FPTP General Elections too?
Poor.
The UK doesn't ignore General Election verdicts.
The UK Government is now making it clear it would ignore a Leave vote.
No, it's making it clear that in the democratically elected MPs may opt to stay in the Single Market in the event of a Leave vote. Since the EU is not the same as the Single Market, what's the problem?
You're missing the latest take. Lord Astor (Cameron's father in law) has gone beyond the sort-of ignore the referendum and stay-in-the-single-market thing, he's now saying that MPs would (and should) completely ignore this ADVISORY referendum, and simply not pass the legislation to get us out.
For what it's worth, I don't think many MPs would be insane enough to try this, but the fact Establishment figures are coming out with this sinister bilge is really quite startling.
Cameron has to be quizzed on this tonight. Anything but a clear cut acceptance of the result will be remarkably bad for Remain.
Of course he will say that. Project Fear depends on making people see a direct line between a cross on the ballot paper next to Leave and bad things. If he suggests politicians will have any room for manoeuvre it undermines the fear.
So you admit that all this Project Fear is just a skilled piece of political manipulation?
Mr. Royale, this, by Mr. Fire below, is relevant to the Astor comments: "OK, that's [Astor's comments] different, and I completely agree that would be outrageous."
So far on this thread I've seen Remainers referred to as "scum", as "anti-democrats" and read talk of how we must be "CRUSHED" - talk which was then applauded.
Clearly I was very wrong to return to this site. Fine, I'm gone for good this time. The atmosphere is vile and full of hate. If you hard line Leavers wish to converse on here with nobody other than those who share your own views then you're clearly very close to achieving that goal. I'm not the first to go and I'm sure I'll not be the last either.
Is that your opinion of FPTP General Elections too?
Poor.
The UK doesn't ignore General Election verdicts.
The UK Government is now making it clear it would ignore a Leave vote.
No, it's making it clear that in the democratically elected MPs may opt to stay in the Single Market in the event of a Leave vote. Since the EU is not the same as the Single Market, what's the problem?
Don't even try and talk to me.
I don't engage with autocrats and anti-democrats.
I work to defeat them.
I'm an anti-democrat for pointing out the right of our democratically elected legislature's right to decide on our future in the event of a Leave vote? If you want the people to decide perhaps you should be calling for an EEA vs EFTA vs WTO referendum. I'm sure the public can't wait.
Vote Leave have made it perfectly clear what their plan for Brexit is and any vote to Leave will be a mandate to act on the basis.
You are a spineless coward. Don't ever talk to me again.
The referendum has zero legal standing to change British membership of European institutions. You rely on MPs to do that. Someone has to push the button saying Article 50; we know Gove wouldn't, so presumably PB comments think Gove is a traitor to Brexit. A majority of the Commons then has to pass a bill in light of the public will, which will be expressed in the referendum. The problem is, what happens if the public will whips back to favour EU membership after seeing the early consequences of a 50.5 per cent or indeed a 52 per cent LEAVE vote on say sub-60 per cent turnout, which all sides agree would be harmful in the short run?
It's naughty of me to post this from just over a year ago, but an indication of how things have developed in a way that was not universally expected. Apologies to Richard.
I gave up at 'unbiased'. That is one thing you have never been.
Exactly, you make my point perfectly. This is why the Out side are not only going to lose, but are going to be trounced.
This is so obvious, it beggars belief that those who seriously want us to leave the EU (rather than just moan about it) don't see what is going to hit them. It is staggering, absolutely staggering, that they haven't already started organising the campaign, and in such a way that they can attract moderate Conservatives, such as myself, who might be persuadable.
My long-term forecast used to be that the In side would win 60:40, but, given the way things are developing, 70:30 is more likely, I think.
So far on this thread I've seen Remainers referred to as "scum", as "anti-democrats" and read talk of how we must be "CRUSHED" - talk which was then applauded.
Clearly I was very wrong to return to this site. Fine, I'm gone for good this time. The atmosphere is vile and full of hate. If you hard line Leavers wish to converse on here with nobody other than those who share your own views then you're clearly very close to achieving that goal. I'm not the first to go and I'm sure I'll not be the last either.
That's just Sean being Sean....
Ignoring the result of the referendum is pretty anti-democratic though.
Is that your opinion of FPTP General Elections too?
Poor.
The UK doesn't ignore General Election verdicts.
The UK Government is now making it clear it would ignore a Leave vote.
No, it's making it clear that in the democratically elected MPs may opt to stay in the Single Market in the event of a Leave vote. Since the EU is not the same as the Single Market, what's the problem?
Don't even try and talk to me.
I don't engage with autocrats and anti-democrats.
I work to defeat them.
You guys are seriously starting to sound unhinged and there's still 2 weeks to go. The world won't end either way on June 24th you need to get a sense of proportion for your own sake.
Sky News bad news for leave. 65 billion gone out of UK in last two months. Maybe this is why leave are drifting in the betting
If that were true the pound would have collapsed over the period. It has actually appreciated since March, when it went sub 1.40 when Boris joined Vote Leave.
The referendum has zero legal standing to change British membership of European institutions. You rely on MPs to do that. Someone has to push the button saying Article 50; we know Gove wouldn't, so presumably PB comments think Gove is a traitor to Brexit. A majority of the Commons then has to pass a bill in light of the public will, which will be expressed in the referendum. The problem is, what happens if the public will whips back to favour EU membership after seeing the early consequences of a 50.5 per cent or indeed a 52 per cent LEAVE vote on say sub-60 per cent turnout, which all sides agree would be harmful in the short run?
I think it's been discussed up thread. Invoking article 50 is an executive decision. I don't doubt Cameron will do this if we vote to leave. Parliament will be involved in the negotiations of what comes after.
What really astonishes me is that they are stupid enough to publish this two weeks before the polls.
If you want to be antidemocratic, its probably better to keep your trap shut until the polls close to avoid your losing majority becoming ever larger.
Not if you want to try the idea out for size, and soften people up to it. If it gets vomited back into your face, just say it was idle chatter, otherwise you might be on.
Sky News bad news for leave. 65 billion gone out of UK in last two months. Maybe this is why leave are drifting in the betting
If that were true the pound would have collapsed over the period. It has actually appreciated since March, when it went sub 1.40 when Boris joined Vote Leave.
It would rise if the markets see this as likely resulting in remain. And it cannot just be dismissed
Is that your opinion of FPTP General Elections too?
Poor.
The UK doesn't ignore General Election verdicts.
The UK Government is now making it clear it would ignore a Leave vote.
No, it's making it clear that in the democratically elected MPs may opt to stay in the Single Market in the event of a Leave vote. Since the EU is not the same as the Single Market, what's the problem?
Don't even try and talk to me.
I don't engage with autocrats and anti-democrats.
I work to defeat them.
I'm an anti-democrat for pointing out the right of our democratically elected legislature's right to decide on our future in the event of a Leave vote? If you want the people to decide perhaps you should be calling for an EEA vs EFTA vs WTO referendum. I'm sure the public can't wait.
Vote Leave have made it perfectly clear what their plan for Brexit is and any vote to Leave will be a mandate to act on the basis.
You are a spineless coward. Don't ever talk to me again.
The issue of what might be done after a Levae vote is not on the rederendum ballot. As many Leave supporters have been at pains to state throughout the campaign, Vote Leave are not a government and have no mandate to implement anythings beyond an initial exit from the EU.
Is that your opinion of FPTP General Elections too?
Poor.
The UK doesn't ignore General Election verdicts.
The UK Government is now making it clear it would ignore a Leave vote.
No, it's making it clear that in the democratically elected MPs may opt to stay in the Single Market in the event of a Leave vote. Since the EU is not the same as the Single Market, what's the problem?
Don't even try and talk to me.
I don't engage with autocrats and anti-democrats.
I work to defeat them.
I'm an anti-democrat for pointing out the right of our democratically elected legislature's right to decide on our future in the event of a Leave vote? If you want the people to decide perhaps you should be calling for an EEA vs EFTA vs WTO referendum. I'm sure the public can't wait.
Vote Leave have made it perfectly clear what their plan for Brexit is and any vote to Leave will be a mandate to act on the basis.
You are a spineless coward. Don't ever talk to me again.
The issue of what might be done after a Levae vote is not on the rederendum ballot. As many Leave supporters have been at pains to state throughout the campaign, Vote Leave are not a government and have no mandate to implement anythings beyond an initial exit from the EU.
So, we could leave then mediators rejoin with some minor concessions from the EU?
Is that your opinion of FPTP General Elections too?
Poor.
The UK doesn't ignore General Election verdicts.
The UK Government is now making it clear it would ignore a Leave vote.
No, it's making it clear that in the democratically elected MPs may opt to stay in the Single Market in the event of a Leave vote. Since the EU is not the same as the Single Market, what's the problem?
You're missing the latest take. Lord Astor (Cameron's father in law) has gone beyond the sort-of ignore the referendum and stay-in-the-single-market thing, he's now saying that MPs would (and should) completely ignore this ADVISORY referendum, and simply not pass the legislation to get us out.
For what it's worth, I don't think many MPs would be insane enough to try this, but the fact Establishment figures are coming out with this sinister bilge is really quite startling.
Cameron has to be quizzed on this tonight. Anything but a clear cut acceptance of the result will be remarkably bad for Remain.
Isn't invoking article 50 an action carried out by the executive power of the PM? Once he invokes article 50 we begin to leave, bypassing the will of Commons or Lords? So far he has said this will be an immediate action if the result is leave.
Correct. The only absolute power Cameron has is in invoking Article 50. After that it will depend on his ability to take Parliament with him wherever he intends to go with a post Brexit settlement.
Given that the referendum was only abut in or out, Parliament is entitled to make its own decision about what it does next. Whether it would be wise to do so against the wishes of the country is another matter. But that is a political risk not a legal or constitutional issue.
Absolutely - and the politicians will have to defend their decisions at the next election.
Is that your opinion of FPTP General Elections too?
Poor.
The UK doesn't ignore General Election verdicts.
The UK Government is now making it clear it would ignore a Leave vote.
No, it's making it clear that in the democratically elected MPs may opt to stay in the Single Market in the event of a Leave vote. Since the EU is not the same as the Single Market, what's the problem?
Don't even try and talk to me.
I don't engage with autocrats and anti-democrats.
I work to defeat them.
I'm an anti-democrat for pointing out the right of our democratically elected legislature's right to decide on our future in the event of a Leave vote? If you want the people to decide perhaps you should be calling for an EEA vs EFTA vs WTO referendum. I'm sure the public can't wait.
Vote Leave have made it perfectly clear what their plan for Brexit is and any vote to Leave will be a mandate to act on the basis.
You are a spineless coward. Don't ever talk to me again.
The issue of what might be done after a Levae vote is not on the rederendum ballot. As many Leave supporters have been at pains to state throughout the campaign, Vote Leave are not a government and have no mandate to implement anythings beyond an initial exit from the EU.
So, we could leave then mediators rejoin with some minor concessions from the EU?
That'll be a matter for our sovereign Parliament, newly freed from the supposed tyranny of the EU. Of course, fully rejoining the EU after a vote to leave it would likely have unpleasant electoral consequence for the MPs that voted for it, but it's their prerogative.
Is that your opinion of FPTP General Elections too?
Poor.
The UK doesn't ignore General Election verdicts.
The UK Government is now making it clear it would ignore a Leave vote.
No, it's making it clear that in the democratically elected MPs may opt to stay in the Single Market in the event of a Leave vote. Since the EU is not the same as the Single Market, what's the problem?
Don't even try and talk to me.
I don't engage with autocrats and anti-democrats.
I work to defeat them.
You guys are seriously starting to sound unhinged and there's still 2 weeks to go. The world won't end either way on June 24th you need to get a sense of proportion for your own sake.
Of course it won't end, since it's starting to look like both options will lead to effectively the same result...
Sky News bad news for leave. 65 billion gone out of UK in last two months. Maybe this is why leave are drifting in the betting
If that were true the pound would have collapsed over the period. It has actually appreciated since March, when it went sub 1.40 when Boris joined Vote Leave.
It would rise if the markets see this as likely resulting in remain. And it cannot just be dismissed
Sky News bad news for leave. 65 billion gone out of UK in last two months. Maybe this is why leave are drifting in the betting
If that were true the pound would have collapsed over the period. It has actually appreciated since March, when it went sub 1.40 when Boris joined Vote Leave.
It would rise if the markets see this as likely resulting in remain. And it cannot just be dismissed
Fine, go back and show me the correlation between betting odds and the FX rate.
Is that your opinion of FPTP General Elections too?
Poor.
The UK doesn't ignore General Election verdicts.
The UK Government is now making it clear it would ignore a Leave vote.
No, it's making it clear that in the democratically elected MPs may opt to stay in the Single Market in the event of a Leave vote. Since the EU is not the same as the Single Market, what's the problem?
Don't even try and talk to me.
I don't engage with autocrats and anti-democrats.
I work to defeat them.
I'm an anti-democrat for pointing out the right of our democratically elected legislature's right to decide on our future in the event of a Leave vote? If you want the people to decide perhaps you should be calling for an EEA vs EFTA vs WTO referendum. I'm sure the public can't wait.
Vote Leave have made it perfectly clear what their plan for Brexit is and any vote to Leave will be a mandate to act on the basis.
You are a spineless coward. Don't ever talk to me again.
The issue of what might be done after a Levae vote is not on the rederendum ballot. As many Leave supporters have been at pains to state throughout the campaign, Vote Leave are not a government and have no mandate to implement anythings beyond an initial exit from the EU.
So, we could leave then mediators rejoin with some minor concessions from the EU?
That'll be a matter for our sovereign Parliament, newly freed from the supposed tyranny of the EU.
A smack in the face of the electorate, you must agree!
Sky News bad news for leave. 65 billion gone out of UK in last two months. Maybe this is why leave are drifting in the betting
If that were true the pound would have collapsed over the period. It has actually appreciated since March, when it went sub 1.40 when Boris joined Vote Leave.
The one bad thing about Labours no smoking indoors.
I was sat outside in the sun enjoying a nice meal. Smokers have sat either side of me and the stink is awful with smoke across the table. Having asked them to refrain they refused stating its the only place they can smoke. We have now been forced inside.
We really need the Australian system of a white line where if you chose to smoke you stand the other side of the white line on the pavement. At least we can then all enjoy the summer just like the smokers can.
It was far better with a dedicated bar. The law of unintended consequences of course.
The referendum has zero legal standing to change British membership of European institutions. You rely on MPs to do that. Someone has to push the button saying Article 50; we know Gove wouldn't, so presumably PB comments think Gove is a traitor to Brexit. A majority of the Commons then has to pass a bill in light of the public will, which will be expressed in the referendum. The problem is, what happens if the public will whips back to favour EU membership after seeing the early consequences of a 50.5 per cent or indeed a 52 per cent LEAVE vote on say sub-60 per cent turnout, which all sides agree would be harmful in the short run?
I think it's been discussed up thread. Invoking article 50 is an executive decision. I don't doubt Cameron will do this if we vote to leave. Parliament will be involved in the negotiations of what comes after.
Cameron could invoke it. However, Gove/Boris could in effect revoke it by asking for more time. If the other countries agreed, this would effectively last beyond the next general election under the timeframe Gove's mooted (over four years).
Is that your opinion of FPTP General Elections too?
Poor.
The UK doesn't ignore General Election verdicts.
The UK Government is now making it clear it would ignore a Leave vote.
No, it's making it clear that in the democratically elected MPs may opt to stay in the Single Market in the event of a Leave vote. Since the EU is not the same as the Single Market, what's the problem?
Don't even try and talk to me.
I don't engage with autocrats and anti-democrats.
I work to defeat them.
I'm an anti-democrat for pointing out the right of our democratically elected legislature's right to decide on our future in the event of a Leave vote? If you want the people to decide perhaps you should be calling for an EEA vs EFTA vs WTO referendum. I'm sure the public can't wait.
Vote Leave have made it perfectly clear what their plan for Brexit is and any vote to Leave will be a mandate to act on the basis.
You are a spineless coward. Don't ever talk to me again.
The issue of what might be done after a Levae vote is not on the rederendum ballot. As many Leave supporters have been at pains to state throughout the campaign, Vote Leave are not a government and have no mandate to implement anythings beyond an initial exit from the EU.
So, we could leave then mediators rejoin with some minor concessions from the EU?
That'll be a matter for our sovereign Parliament, newly freed from the supposed tyranny of the EU.
A smack in the face of the electorate, you must agree!
Who are at full liberty to remove them at the next election if they don't like it.
The referendum has zero legal standing to change British membership of European institutions. You rely on MPs to do that. Someone has to push the button saying Article 50; we know Gove wouldn't, so presumably PB comments think Gove is a traitor to Brexit. A majority of the Commons then has to pass a bill in light of the public will, which will be expressed in the referendum. The problem is, what happens if the public will whips back to favour EU membership after seeing the early consequences of a 50.5 per cent or indeed a 52 per cent LEAVE vote on say sub-60 per cent turnout, which all sides agree would be harmful in the short run?
I think it's been discussed up thread. Invoking article 50 is an executive decision. I don't doubt Cameron will do this if we vote to leave. Parliament will be involved in the negotiations of what comes after.
Cameron could invoke it. However, Gove/Boris could in effect revoke it by asking for more time. If the other countries agreed, this would effectively last beyond the next general election under the timeframe Gove's mooted (over four years).
Can it be extended indefinitely? They'll eventually lose patience with us.
What really astonishes me is that they are stupid enough to publish this two weeks before the polls.
If you want to be antidemocratic, its probably better to keep your trap shut until the polls close to avoid your losing majority becoming ever larger.
Not if you want to try the idea out for size, and soften people up to it. If it gets vomited back into your face, just say it was idle chatter, otherwise you might be on.
How long until Leave start raising the spectre of a military coup to enforce their will against parliament?
@rcs1000 Interesting piece. But what you call the dispatch problem is not so much about the efficient use of resources as technological and organisational change. In the jargon of economics resources are allocated efficiently (or not) for a given level of technology. Technical solutions to the dispatch problem shift the production possibilities frontier outwards. (The ppf assumes efficient allocation of resources.) As you say, you have pinpointed a genuine source of economic growth.
btw I suppose it was Alan Maynard? He was a year behind me as a research student at York.
So far on this thread I've seen Remainers referred to as "scum", as "anti-democrats" and read talk of how we must be "CRUSHED" - talk which was then applauded.
Clearly I was very wrong to return to this site. Fine, I'm gone for good this time. The atmosphere is vile and full of hate. If you hard line Leavers wish to converse on here with nobody other than those who share your own views then you're clearly very close to achieving that goal. I'm not the first to go and I'm sure I'll not be the last either.
Very sad but true. OGH needs to take a grip or this place will become a hangout for right-wing loons very much like the trashy Guido site.
What really astonishes me is that they are stupid enough to publish this two weeks before the polls.
If you want to be antidemocratic, its probably better to keep your trap shut until the polls close to avoid your losing majority becoming ever larger.
Not if you want to try the idea out for size, and soften people up to it. If it gets vomited back into your face, just say it was idle chatter, otherwise you might be on.
How long until Leave start raising the spectre of a military coup to enforce their will against parliament?
Perhaps the EU Army could be brought in to restore order
The one bad thing about Labours no smoking indoors.
I was sat outside in the sun enjoying a nice meal. Smokers have sat either side of me and the stink is awful with smoke across the table. Having asked them to refrain they refused stating its the only place they can smoke. We have now been forced inside.
We really need the Australian system of a white line where if you chose to smoke you stand the other side of the white line on the pavement. At least we can then all enjoy the summer just like the smokers can.
It was far better with a dedicated bar. The law of unintended consequences of course.
I once, in the 1980s, flew on a Polish Lot flight from Heathrow to Warsaw where it was smokers in the left of the aisle seats and non-smokers in right of the aisle seats. I always chose Lot rather than British Airways: the aeroplanes had far fewer passengers and the stewardesses were stunners.
So far on this thread I've seen Remainers referred to as "scum", as "anti-democrats" and read talk of how we must be "CRUSHED" - talk which was then applauded.
Clearly I was very wrong to return to this site. Fine, I'm gone for good this time. The atmosphere is vile and full of hate. If you hard line Leavers wish to converse on here with nobody other than those who share your own views then you're clearly very close to achieving that goal. I'm not the first to go and I'm sure I'll not be the last either.
Nah. All the hate is on the Remain side.
They hate the plebs, they hate democracy, they hate the fact they might lose this vote, and they hate Britain.
My anger is a direct result of the anti-democratic attempts to manipulate the vote and it's result by people who I now hold beneath contempt.
If you're too delicate a flower to handle such robust reactions, Steven, I suggest you have a word with some of those on your side who are planning to subvert or undermine the vote if it doesn't go their way.
So far on this thread I've seen Remainers referred to as "scum", as "anti-democrats" and read talk of how we must be "CRUSHED" - talk which was then applauded.
Clearly I was very wrong to return to this site. Fine, I'm gone for good this time. The atmosphere is vile and full of hate. If you hard line Leavers wish to converse on here with nobody other than those who share your own views then you're clearly very close to achieving that goal. I'm not the first to go and I'm sure I'll not be the last either.
I wouldn't do that. I'm sure an equilibrium of sorts will return by July!
Sky News bad news for leave. 65 billion gone out of UK in last two months. Maybe this is why leave are drifting in the betting
If that were true the pound would have collapsed over the period. It has actually appreciated since March, when it went sub 1.40 when Boris joined Vote Leave.
More Remain lies.
Now you are saying Sky News are part of the lies. You really csnnot address any fact without trashing it. Fact - 65 billion has gone out of UK assets or converted into foreign currency in last two months
So far on this thread I've seen Remainers referred to as "scum", as "anti-democrats" and read talk of how we must be "CRUSHED" - talk which was then applauded.
Clearly I was very wrong to return to this site. Fine, I'm gone for good this time. The atmosphere is vile and full of hate. If you hard line Leavers wish to converse on here with nobody other than those who share your own views then you're clearly very close to achieving that goal. I'm not the first to go and I'm sure I'll not be the last either.
I wouldn't do that. I'm sure an equilibrium of sorts will return by July!
There's no political equilibrium here. The Labour supporters were, mostly, repelled by being treated to the same treatment LEAVE is meting out now. That's why the comments are overwhelmingly Conservative or Ukip or at least right-wing Liberal.
Is that your opinion of FPTP General Elections too?
Poor.
The UK doesn't ignore General Election verdicts.
The UK Government is now making it clear it would ignore a Leave vote.
No, it's making it clear that in the democratically elected MPs may opt to stay in the Single Market in the event of a Leave vote. Since the EU is not the same as the Single Market, what's the problem?
Don't even try and talk to me.
I don't engage with autocrats and anti-democrats.
I work to defeat them.
You guys are seriously starting to sound unhinged and there's still 2 weeks to go. The world won't end either way on June 24th you need to get a sense of proportion for your own sake.
I'll be polite: please sod off.
I've been told I'm a frother, unhinged, tin foiled, xenophobic, foamer and lunatic.
How about I call all Remainers traitors, cowards, selfish money-grabbing urchins, or plutocrats? Would you like that? Would you?
Because I can't see any other reason for a free born Brit to vote *against* democratic self-governance of his/her own country, with the right to elect/kick-out those who make his/her own laws.
Sky News bad news for leave. 65 billion gone out of UK in last two months. Maybe this is why leave are drifting in the betting
If that were true the pound would have collapsed over the period. It has actually appreciated since March, when it went sub 1.40 when Boris joined Vote Leave.
More Remain lies.
Now you are saying Sky News are part of the lies. You really csnnot address any fact without trashing it. Fact - 65 billion has gone out of UK assets or converted into foreign currency in last two months
Do the BoE publish these figures on a monthly/quarterly basis?
Sky News bad news for leave. 65 billion gone out of UK in last two months. Maybe this is why leave are drifting in the betting
If that were true the pound would have collapsed over the period. It has actually appreciated since March, when it went sub 1.40 when Boris joined Vote Leave.
More Remain lies.
Now you are saying Sky News are part of the lies. You really csnnot address any fact without trashing it. Fact - 65 billion has gone out of UK assets or converted into foreign currency in last two months
Why are you here? I thought you'd promised to log off and not come back until 24th June?
Mr. Royale, this, by Mr. Fire below, is relevant to the Astor comments: "OK, that's [Astor's comments] different, and I completely agree that would be outrageous."
Thank you MD. Much as I hope Remain win, I too would be out with placards were Parliament to overrule or ignore a Leave result as Astor appears to have suggested.
So far on this thread I've seen Remainers referred to as "scum", as "anti-democrats" and read talk of how we must be "CRUSHED" - talk which was then applauded.
Clearly I was very wrong to return to this site. Fine, I'm gone for good this time. The atmosphere is vile and full of hate. If you hard line Leavers wish to converse on here with nobody other than those who share your own views then you're clearly very close to achieving that goal. I'm not the first to go and I'm sure I'll not be the last either.
I wouldn't do that. I'm sure an equilibrium of sorts will return by July!
I am struggling with the abuse dished out and it is very regretable as the whole site is under threat unless balance is re introduced, hopefully by the 24th. Some references on here to those who believe remain is best for the Country are so unaceptable and unnecessary
Sky News bad news for leave. 65 billion gone out of UK in last two months. Maybe this is why leave are drifting in the betting
If that were true the pound would have collapsed over the period. It has actually appreciated since March, when it went sub 1.40 when Boris joined Vote Leave.
More Remain lies.
Now you are saying Sky News are part of the lies. You really csnnot address any fact without trashing it. Fact - 65 billion has gone out of UK assets or converted into foreign currency in last two months
So what? If you look at the graph there have been periods when inflows were very significant. They are inevitable with a currency like the pound which is not subject to exchange controls.
You also can't assume funds flowing in is automatically a benefit to the economy. When foreign investors buy preexisting blocks of flats in London the pound gets a temporary boost, but it also guarantees future outflows which will weaken the currency in the long term.
Sky News bad news for leave. 65 billion gone out of UK in last two months. Maybe this is why leave are drifting in the betting
If that were true the pound would have collapsed over the period. It has actually appreciated since March, when it went sub 1.40 when Boris joined Vote Leave.
More Remain lies.
Now you are saying Sky News are part of the lies. You really csnnot address any fact without trashing it. Fact - 65 billion has gone out of UK assets or converted into foreign currency in last two months
So what? If you look at the graph there have been periods when inflows were very significant. They are inevitable with a currency like the pound which is not subject to exchange controls.
You also can't assume funds flowing in is automatically a benefit to the economy. When foreign investors buy preexisting blocks of flats in London the pound gets a temporary boost, but it also guarantees future outflows which will weaken the currency in the long term.
Mr. Royale, this, by Mr. Fire below, is relevant to the Astor comments: "OK, that's [Astor's comments] different, and I completely agree that would be outrageous."
Thank you MD. Much as I hope Remain win, I too would be out with placards were Parliament to overrule or ignore a Leave result as Astor appears to have suggested.
Just read the Mail article on this and I don't think he was advocating this. Rather he was saying this could happen given the make up of the Commons. I take the view that Parliament is sovereign, but I think MPs voting against us leaving the EU would be taking a courageous decision.
Sky News bad news for leave. 65 billion gone out of UK in last two months. Maybe this is why leave are drifting in the betting
If that were true the pound would have collapsed over the period. It has actually appreciated since March, when it went sub 1.40 when Boris joined Vote Leave.
More Remain lies.
Now you are saying Sky News are part of the lies. You really csnnot address any fact without trashing it. Fact - 65 billion has gone out of UK assets or converted into foreign currency in last two months
Do the BoE publish these figures on a monthly/quarterly basis?
Armed robbers bit off more than they could chew when they held up a McDonalds in eastern France whose diners included a group of hungry officers from an elite military force.
Around 40 customers were chomping on their burgers on Sunday evening in the fast food outlet in a shopping centre in Besancon when two men burst in, fired in the air with a shotgun, threatened the guests and ordered staff to open the till, which contained €2,000 (£1,550) in cash.
However, unbeknownst to the robbers, among the terrified customers were 11 off-duty members of the French paramilitary special forces, Groupe d’Intervention de la Gendarmerie Nationale, or GIGN - the Gallic equivalent of the SAS - who were not amused at having their meal of Big Macs and French fries disturbed by the low-level criminals.
Mr. Royale, this, by Mr. Fire below, is relevant to the Astor comments: "OK, that's [Astor's comments] different, and I completely agree that would be outrageous."
Thank you MD. Much as I hope Remain win, I too would be out with placards were Parliament to overrule or ignore a Leave result as Astor appears to have suggested.
But you have said you see no problem in keeping us in the single market, even in the event of a leave vote. I'm not sure how that would even be possible, unless we join EFTA, in which case all the arguments we've been having about immigration and access to the single market will be moot.
This thread has been a golden opportunity for Remainers to disown Lord Astor's comments and make clear they'd expect parliament to respect the result of a Leave vote.
Instead, they are defending it. Tells you everything you need to know about Remainers.
Sky News bad news for leave. 65 billion gone out of UK in last two months. Maybe this is why leave are drifting in the betting
If that were true the pound would have collapsed over the period. It has actually appreciated since March, when it went sub 1.40 when Boris joined Vote Leave.
More Remain lies.
Now you are saying Sky News are part of the lies. You really csnnot address any fact without trashing it. Fact - 65 billion has gone out of UK assets or converted into foreign currency in last two months
Why are you here? I thought you'd promised to log off and not come back until 24th June?
I said I would contribute from time to time but are you trying to sensor news that is dreadful for your cause.
Armed robbers bit off more than they could chew when they held up a McDonalds in eastern France whose diners included a group of hungry officers from an elite military force.
Around 40 customers were chomping on their burgers on Sunday evening in the fast food outlet in a shopping centre in Besancon when two men burst in, fired in the air with a shotgun, threatened the guests and ordered staff to open the till, which contained €2,000 (£1,550) in cash.
However, unbeknownst to the robbers, among the terrified customers were 11 off-duty members of the French paramilitary special forces, Groupe d’Intervention de la Gendarmerie Nationale, or GIGN - the Gallic equivalent of the SAS - who were not amused at having their meal of Big Macs and French fries disturbed by the low-level criminals.
Mr. Royale, this, by Mr. Fire below, is relevant to the Astor comments: "OK, that's [Astor's comments] different, and I completely agree that would be outrageous."
Thank you MD. Much as I hope Remain win, I too would be out with placards were Parliament to overrule or ignore a Leave result as Astor appears to have suggested.
But you have said you see no problem in keeping us in the single market, even in the event of a leave vote. I'm not sure how that would even be possible, unless we join EFTA, in which case all the arguments we've been having about immigration and access to the single market will be moot.
My point is that it is up to Parliament to decide. A Leave result (morally) binds Parliament to leave the EU. It doesn't mandate what happens next. So, yes, the arguments on immigration may be moot if Parliament were to decide to down the EFTA route. It's Parliament's call.
So far on this thread I've seen Remainers referred to as "scum", as "anti-democrats" and read talk of how we must be "CRUSHED" - talk which was then applauded.
Clearly I was very wrong to return to this site. Fine, I'm gone for good this time. The atmosphere is vile and full of hate. If you hard line Leavers wish to converse on here with nobody other than those who share your own views then you're clearly very close to achieving that goal. I'm not the first to go and I'm sure I'll not be the last either.
Mr Whaley It would be a great shame if you left like that
On the other hand let's not kid ourselves this is a one way st. Some of the abuse dished out by remain has been appalling and to be fair much more regular.
It would be a lot simpler if everyone just voted Leave. That way there is no chance of a second referendum and PB can go back to being a more pleasant place.
Sky News bad news for leave. 65 billion gone out of UK in last two months. Maybe this is why leave are drifting in the betting
If that were true the pound would have collapsed over the period. It has actually appreciated since March, when it went sub 1.40 when Boris joined Vote Leave.
More Remain lies.
Now you are saying Sky News are part of the lies. You really csnnot address any fact without trashing it. Fact - 65 billion has gone out of UK assets or converted into foreign currency in last two months
So what? If you look at the graph there have been periods when inflows were very significant. They are inevitable with a currency like the pound which is not subject to exchange controls.
You also can't assume funds flowing in is automatically a benefit to the economy. When foreign investors buy preexisting blocks of flats in London the pound gets a temporary boost, but it also guarantees future outflows which will weaken the currency in the long term.
I give up
Understandable. It's much too hard to think about these things for oneself; let's just leave it to big business, international quangos and the party leaderships. They've always got our best interests at heart.
I've been told I'm a frother, unhinged, tin foiled, xenophobic, foamer and lunatic.
What could possibly have given people that impression?
F**k off. I've said and done *nothing* until today to give anyone any justification for such labels. In fact, my contributions on the site on this debate have been commended as measured and informative by both sides.
But I've had enough. I'm sick of the sneering, condescension, pomposity, arrogance, lies, manipulation and insults by Remain. I've had it up to here, and just boiled over.
As someone who lurked here for almost a decade, I don't worry about the balance of the site - it ebbs and flows. Tories were in a minority here for a long time, LDs were often overrepresented in relation to the national support level, SNP support has moved up and down too.
The quality seems to remain just as high - not least because most of us are just as interested in betting as politics.
Mr. Royale, this, by Mr. Fire below, is relevant to the Astor comments: "OK, that's [Astor's comments] different, and I completely agree that would be outrageous."
Thank you MD. Much as I hope Remain win, I too would be out with placards were Parliament to overrule or ignore a Leave result as Astor appears to have suggested.
But you have said you see no problem in keeping us in the single market, even in the event of a leave vote. I'm not sure how that would even be possible, unless we join EFTA, in which case all the arguments we've been having about immigration and access to the single market will be moot.
My point is that it is up to Parliament to decide. A Leave result (morally) binds Parliament to leave the EU. It doesn't mandate what happens next. So, yes, the arguments on immigration may be moot if Parliament were to decide to down the EFTA route. It's Parliament's call.
I suppose I would have less objections if it didn't just sound like a monumental stitch up. The single market is one of the defining aspects of the EU. Cameron has made it quite clear that if we vote leave we have no access to the single market. The public will have voted with that priced in as it were, and will expect us to come out.
I've been told I'm a frother, unhinged, tin foiled, xenophobic, foamer and lunatic.
What could possibly have given people that impression?
F**k off. I've said and done *nothing* until today to give anyone any justification for such labels. In fact, my contributions on the site on this debate have been commended as measured and informative by both sides.
But I've had enough. I'm sick of the sneering, condescension, pomposity, arrogance, lies, manipulation and insults by Remain. I've had it up to here, and just boiled over.
People like YOU own this problem.
My perception is that most of the abuse comes from the Leave side.
Sky News bad news for leave. 65 billion gone out of UK in last two months. Maybe this is why leave are drifting in the betting
If that were true the pound would have collapsed over the period. It has actually appreciated since March, when it went sub 1.40 when Boris joined Vote Leave.
More Remain lies.
Now you are saying Sky News are part of the lies. You really csnnot address any fact without trashing it. Fact - 65 billion has gone out of UK assets or converted into foreign currency in last two months
Ok, but quoting a vaguely big number is meaningless without context. How much usually gets converted to foreign currency per month? £65 billion leaving the UK with no appreciable effect on Sterling makes me wonder if this sort of flow is in fact quite normal.
The sums traded on the Foreign Exchange markets in London really are huge - we are talking about trillions not billions. So without a context and comparison I am inclined to write of this story as just another spoke in the project fear wheel.
To be clear, any proposal by either side to disregard the referendum result should be laughed to scorn. Failing that, peasants with pitchforks should march on the Palace of Westminster.
This applies whether the result is Remain or Leave.
Sky News bad news for leave. 65 billion gone out of UK in last two months. Maybe this is why leave are drifting in the betting
If that were true the pound would have collapsed over the period. It has actually appreciated since March, when it went sub 1.40 when Boris joined Vote Leave.
More Remain lies.
Now you are saying Sky News are part of the lies. You really csnnot address any fact without trashing it. Fact - 65 billion has gone out of UK assets or converted into foreign currency in last two months
Do the BoE publish these figures on a monthly/quarterly basis?
No idea but Sky are going big on the story
I'm not sure I approve of ad hoc data publications during purdah. This could constitute a breach of the UKSA code of practice.
To be clear, any proposal by either side to disregard the referendum result should be laughed to scorn. Failing that, peasants with pitchforks should march on the Palace of Westminster.
This applies whether the result is Remain or Leave.
Agreed. For my side, it would be laughable to encourage MPs to vote us out of the EU if the referendum is Remain.
Sky News bad news for leave. 65 billion gone out of UK in last two months. Maybe this is why leave are drifting in the betting
If that were true the pound would have collapsed over the period. It has actually appreciated since March, when it went sub 1.40 when Boris joined Vote Leave.
More Remain lies.
Now you are saying Sky News are part of the lies. You really csnnot address any fact without trashing it. Fact - 65 billion has gone out of UK assets or converted into foreign currency in last two months
Why are you here? I thought you'd promised to log off and not come back until 24th June?
I said I would contribute from time to time but are you trying to sensor news that is dreadful for your cause.
Lol. I'm not censoring anything.
If you're going to contribute, here's a thought: try to come up with a new thought of your own.
That doesn't mean you have to support Leave. You could try intelligent measured Remain commentary, as Southam Observer and David Herdson manage to do.
Right now, your contributions just echo Remain attack lines, to which you append your own personal agreement, and it's boring.
To be clear, any proposal by either side to disregard the referendum result should be laughed to scorn. Failing that, peasants with pitchforks should march on the Palace of Westminster.
This applies whether the result is Remain or Leave.
Armed robbers bit off more than they could chew when they held up a McDonalds in eastern France whose diners included a group of hungry officers from an elite military force.
Around 40 customers were chomping on their burgers on Sunday evening in the fast food outlet in a shopping centre in Besancon when two men burst in, fired in the air with a shotgun, threatened the guests and ordered staff to open the till, which contained €2,000 (£1,550) in cash.
However, unbeknownst to the robbers, among the terrified customers were 11 off-duty members of the French paramilitary special forces, Groupe d’Intervention de la Gendarmerie Nationale, or GIGN - the Gallic equivalent of the SAS - who were not amused at having their meal of Big Macs and French fries disturbed by the low-level criminals.
To be clear, any proposal by either side to disregard the referendum result should be laughed to scorn. Failing that, peasants with pitchforks should march on the Palace of Westminster.
This applies whether the result is Remain or Leave.
Comments
The "leaders" of #Remain.
Remember them?
Apart fm Rudd & Lucas, anyone seen or heard any of them lately?
No: nor me! https://t.co/g9dQIWJZSO
(Good evening, everybody.)
Anyway am off to a dinner at the NPG tonight and the Ulverston Music Festival tomorrow for Don Giovanni so may not check in again until next week.
Have a good evening all.
If you want to be antidemocratic, its probably better to keep your trap shut until the polls close to avoid your losing majority becoming ever larger.
And what other factors are affecting this eg (higher interest rates in USA)?
Wonder if they'll go for the bear pit approach of Sky. Etchingham was widely praised for keeping the politicians in line when she chaired a debate last year.
Given that the referendum was only abut in or out, Parliament is entitled to make its own decision about what it does next. Whether it would be wise to do so against the wishes of the country is another matter. But that is a political risk not a legal or constitutional issue.
I am also told there will be 11 or 12 questions - audience members will not be able to come back on either PM or Farage... 1/2
... That's designed to prevent a repeat of the student grilling of PM during Sky News event last week... Ukip again not happy. 2/2.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36471794
You are a spineless coward. Don't ever talk to me again.
Right, glad we got that cleared up.
"OK, that's [Astor's comments] different, and I completely agree that would be outrageous."
Clearly I was very wrong to return to this site. Fine, I'm gone for good this time. The atmosphere is vile and full of hate. If you hard line Leavers wish to converse on here with nobody other than those who share your own views then you're clearly very close to achieving that goal. I'm not the first to go and I'm sure I'll not be the last either.
Ignoring the result of the referendum is pretty anti-democratic though.
I was sat outside in the sun enjoying a nice meal. Smokers have sat either side of me and the stink is awful with smoke across the table. Having asked them to refrain they refused stating its the only place they can smoke. We have now been forced inside.
We really need the Australian system of a white line where if you chose to smoke you stand the other side of the white line on the pavement. At least we can then all enjoy the summer just like the smokers can.
It was far better with a dedicated bar. The law of unintended consequences of course.
Interesting piece. But what you call the dispatch problem is not so much about the efficient use of resources as technological and organisational change. In the jargon of economics resources are allocated efficiently (or not) for a given level of technology. Technical solutions to the dispatch problem shift the production possibilities frontier outwards. (The ppf assumes efficient allocation of resources.) As you say, you have pinpointed a genuine source of economic growth.
btw I suppose it was Alan Maynard? He was a year behind me as a research student at York.
They hate the plebs, they hate democracy, they hate the fact they might lose this vote, and they hate Britain.
My anger is a direct result of the anti-democratic attempts to manipulate the vote and it's result by people who I now hold beneath contempt.
If you're too delicate a flower to handle such robust reactions, Steven, I suggest you have a word with some of those on your side who are planning to subvert or undermine the vote if it doesn't go their way.
'''The Rotherham delusion''
I've been told I'm a frother, unhinged, tin foiled, xenophobic, foamer and lunatic.
How about I call all Remainers traitors, cowards, selfish money-grabbing urchins, or plutocrats?
Would you like that? Would you?
Because I can't see any other reason for a free born Brit to vote *against* democratic self-governance of his/her own country, with the right to elect/kick-out those who make his/her own laws.
There was much testiness here about the Scottish vote and that dissipated after the vote occurred.
Thank you very much, I'll be here all day
You also can't assume funds flowing in is automatically a benefit to the economy. When foreign investors buy preexisting blocks of flats in London the pound gets a temporary boost, but it also guarantees future outflows which will weaken the currency in the long term.
I do hope that Steven Whaley returns after the referendum.
Around 40 customers were chomping on their burgers on Sunday evening in the fast food outlet in a shopping centre in Besancon when two men burst in, fired in the air with a shotgun, threatened the guests and ordered staff to open the till, which contained €2,000 (£1,550) in cash.
However, unbeknownst to the robbers, among the terrified customers were 11 off-duty members of the French paramilitary special forces, Groupe d’Intervention de la Gendarmerie Nationale, or GIGN - the Gallic equivalent of the SAS - who were not amused at having their meal of Big Macs and French fries disturbed by the low-level criminals.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/armed-robbers-bite-off-more-than-they-can-chew-in-mcdonalds-hold/
As Queen Liz once famously said...Oh bad luck...
Instead, they are defending it. Tells you everything you need to know about Remainers.
I'm now logging off, before I really lose it.
It would be a great shame if you left like that
On the other hand let's not kid ourselves this is a one way st. Some of the abuse dished out by remain has been appalling and to be fair much more regular.
malcolmG is my love child.
But I've had enough. I'm sick of the sneering, condescension, pomposity, arrogance, lies, manipulation and insults by Remain. I've had it up to here, and just boiled over.
People like YOU own this problem.
The quality seems to remain just as high - not least because most of us are just as interested in betting as politics.
They were both professional cage fighters.
Does variable 3-4 mean I'm going to have 'a bit of a crossing" in the morning?
The sums traded on the Foreign Exchange markets in London really are huge - we are talking about trillions not billions. So without a context and comparison I am inclined to write of this story as just another spoke in the project fear wheel.
This applies whether the result is Remain or Leave.
It will be a slight sea with a reasonably low swell.
If you're going to contribute, here's a thought: try to come up with a new thought of your own.
That doesn't mean you have to support Leave. You could try intelligent measured Remain commentary, as Southam Observer and David Herdson manage to do.
Right now, your contributions just echo Remain attack lines, to which you append your own personal agreement, and it's boring.
Find a new angle. Something interesting to say.
Taking a few days in Jersey to rest the back - can't wait!