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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Exactly six weeks to go to the day that Britain decides on its future in Europe
After a period when referendum polls were coming out almost everyday there’s suddenly been a lull in the number of polls being published. It is now May 12th and just three surveys have come out where the fieldwork has taken place in May. All of them have been online. The last phone poll was completed on April 26th.
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一番最初0
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Second!
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harpsichord balderdash penguin bubblegum sideways0
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Glorious fourth!0
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PollingMatters would do well to have some Leavers aboard. The discussion rarely manages to detach itself from the participants bias. Often just an echo chamber. Bit of a waste of a potentially illuminating format.0
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utterly off topic, but an interesting story
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.557024
I was led here by the glorious BBC (a podcast), by the way
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and the PB podcast was good too!0
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I thought they were quite open about their affiliations, but were fairly even-handed. what did you object to, or what did they miss out?shiney2 said:PollingMatters would do well to have some Leavers aboard. The discussion rarely manages to detach itself from the participants bias. Often just an echo chamber. Bit of a waste of a potentially illuminating format.
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Will there be consequences?shiney2 said:PollingMatters would do well to have some Leavers aboard. The discussion rarely manages to detach itself from the participants bias. Often just an echo chamber. Bit of a waste of a potentially illuminating format.
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I'm disappointed that in their epic meltdown Vote Leave didn't manage to namecheck the Bloods, the Crips and the KKK. Put more effort into it!0
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45 days before the referendum commenced Dave inferred that WW3 would ensue if we voted leave. History does repeat itself then so it's "45 days to save the UK !"0
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Have you got a Mecha?JohnLoony said:harpsichord balderdash penguin bubblegum sideways
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Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
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For those interested in a history of the Eurovision song contest
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hello-Europe-Chris-West-ebook/dp/B00WZ901E4/ref=zg_bs_362335031_740 -
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.0 -
Second semifinal tonight euro-fans.old_labour said:For those interested in a history of the Eurovision song contest
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hello-Europe-Chris-West-ebook/dp/B00WZ901E4/ref=zg_bs_362335031_740 -
another bbc podcast too:old_labour said:For those interested in a history of the Eurovision song contest
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hello-Europe-Chris-West-ebook/dp/B00WZ901E4/ref=zg_bs_362335031_74
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03t0m9g
"The Swedish Ambassador's Guide to Eurovision"0 -
I'm sure Nigel Farage will be technically decent at the job. The problem for Leave is that almost everyone who isn't already convinced by him hates him.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Would any Leave supporter, however, care to try to defend the Vote Leave response to this development?
http://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/730523672306429956/photo/1
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster? It's not a good look.0 -
Barratt Holmes on Sky really irritates me. Him and Sarah Jane Mee think that because they work for Sky it gives them a free pass to criticize the government. Well, actually it doesn't.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
I'm not sure what to make of ITV going for Farage. If it is the case that Cameron wanted it to be him rather than Boris or Gove, that's quite interesting. ITV have said they will have another programme where they give Vote Leave time on TV, which probably gets them out of any legal trouble.0 -
That is a seriously over the top response from Leave.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sure Nigel Farage will be technically decent at the job. The problem for Leave is that almost everyone who isn't already convinced by him hates him.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Would any Leave supporter, however, care to try to defend the Vote Leave response to this development?
http://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/730523672306429956/photo/1
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster? It's not a good look.0 -
I agree with you re Farage making the case well - I'm objecting as Leave are to ITV picking Farage without their endorsement. It's like asking a United fan to talk about Manchester on behalf of City.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Cameron being unwilling to debate head to head isn't a move I expected. I guess his mojo has taken a bit of a knock over the last couple of weeks. He's certainly piling up the *wrong sort of coverage*.0 -
I don't think you're on strong ground to throw stones given you think PB has been infiltrated by agent provocateurs in the pay of foreign governments.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sure Nigel Farage will be technically decent at the job. The problem for Leave is that almost everyone who isn't already convinced by him hates him.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Would any Leave supporter, however, care to try to defend the Vote Leave response to this development?
ttp://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/730523672306429956/photo/1
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster? It's not a good look.0 -
I think the Conservative Party is doing the right thing for the Conservative Party: i.e. not allowing two of its senior members to at each other hammer-and-tongs on TV.Plato_Says said:
I agree with you re Farage making the case well - I'm objecting as Leave are to ITV picking Farage without their endorsement. It's like asking a United fan to talk about Manchester on behalf of City.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Cameron being unwilling to debate head to head isn't a move I expected. I guess his mojo has taken a bit of a knock over the last couple of weeks. He's certainly piling up the *wrong sort of coverage*.0 -
I gave you extensive direct evidence for my contention.Plato_Says said:
I don't think you're on strong ground to throw stones given you think PB has been infiltrated by agent provocateurs in the pay of foreign governments.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sure Nigel Farage will be technically decent at the job. The problem for Leave is that almost everyone who isn't already convinced by him hates him.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Would any Leave supporter, however, care to try to defend the Vote Leave response to this development?
ttp://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/730523672306429956/photo/1
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster? It's not a good look.0 -
Well I would just ask why ITV thought it is acceptable to make one of their three headline programmes without a representative of the official campaign? To accept the PM's insistence that he would only join if he was debating a specific person?AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sure Nigel Farage will be technically decent at the job. The problem for Leave is that almost everyone who isn't already convinced by him hates him.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Would any Leave supporter, however, care to try to defend the Vote Leave response to this development?
http://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/730523672306429956/photo/1
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster? It's not a good look.
It's not a conspiracy - it's clearly a commercial decision by ITV because they want "the big debate". But it's inappropriate0 -
But don't worry, I'm confident that no one is paying you to spew your vapid bilge.Plato_Says said:
I don't think you're on strong ground to throw stones given you think PB has been infiltrated by agent provocateurs in the pay of foreign governments.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sure Nigel Farage will be technically decent at the job. The problem for Leave is that almost everyone who isn't already convinced by him hates him.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Would any Leave supporter, however, care to try to defend the Vote Leave response to this development?
ttp://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/730523672306429956/photo/1
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster? It's not a good look.-1 -
There was a past poster who parroted pro-Putin propaganda, who only ever came to the site via Tor, and who was strangely uncontactable by email.Plato_Says said:
I don't think you're on strong ground to throw stones given you think PB has been infiltrated by agent provocateurs in the pay of foreign governments.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sure Nigel Farage will be technically decent at the job. The problem for Leave is that almost everyone who isn't already convinced by him hates him.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Would any Leave supporter, however, care to try to defend the Vote Leave response to this development?
ttp://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/730523672306429956/photo/1
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster? It's not a good look.
This was some time ago, mind, but I don't think it was an especially large leap to believe he/she/they were members of the Kremlin social media team.0 -
Sky's presenters are an odd fish - they participate in discussions, give their opinions, interview guests and read out the news. I like the mix as it makes it a lot less sterile - but it does get them in hot water from time to time. Holmes had to apologise over something or other yesterday.tlg86 said:
Barratt Holmes on Sky really irritates me. Him and Sarah Jane Mee think that because they work for Sky it gives them a free pass to criticize the government. Well, actually it doesn't.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
I'm not sure what to make of ITV going for Farage. If it is the case that Cameron wanted it to be him rather than Boris or Gove, that's quite interesting. ITV have said they will have another programme where they give Vote Leave time on TV, which probably gets them out of any legal trouble.0 -
MODERATORSAlastairMeeks said:
But don't worry, I'm confident that no one is paying you to spew your vapid bilge.Plato_Says said:
I don't think you're on strong ground to throw stones given you think PB has been infiltrated by agent provocateurs in the pay of foreign governments.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sure Nigel Farage will be technically decent at the job. The problem for Leave is that almost everyone who isn't already convinced by him hates him.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Would any Leave supporter, however, care to try to defend the Vote Leave response to this development?
ttp://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/730523672306429956/photo/1
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster? It's not a good look.
Please delete this post
Mr Meeks - you can, and should, be better than this
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Because it is the media becoming an active participant in the democratic process.Scott_P said:
ITV are a commercial TV station. In what sense is a commercial decision inappropriate?Charles said:It's not a conspiracy - it's clearly a commercial decision by ITV because they want "the big debate". But it's inappropriate
Vote Leave is the official campaign - it should be able to appoint its representative to the major debates of the referendum.0 -
And you still haven't named names. Come on - we're dying to know who they are.AlastairMeeks said:
I gave you extensive direct evidence for my contention.Plato_Says said:
I don't think you're on strong ground to throw stones given you think PB has been infiltrated by agent provocateurs in the pay of foreign governments.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sure Nigel Farage will be technically decent at the job. The problem for Leave is that almost everyone who isn't already convinced by him hates him.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Would any Leave supporter, however, care to try to defend the Vote Leave response to this development?
ttp://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/730523672306429956/photo/1
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster? It's not a good look.
EDIT and a bonus hissy fit before 7am. I am blessed.0 -
Well that's a new low for the site....AlastairMeeks said:
But don't worry, I'm confident that no one is paying you to spew your vapid bilge.Plato_Says said:
I don't think you're on strong ground to throw stones given you think PB has been infiltrated by agent provocateurs in the pay of foreign governments.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sure Nigel Farage will be technically decent at the job. The problem for Leave is that almost everyone who isn't already convinced by him hates him.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Would any Leave supporter, however, care to try to defend the Vote Leave response to this development?
ttp://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/730523672306429956/photo/1
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster? It's not a good look.0 -
Except it's not.Charles said:Because it is the media becoming an active participant in the democratic process.
They made, as you said, a commercial decision.
You are proposing that an independent, commercial organisation should have abandoned those principles in favour of a political decision.
When politicians are dictating who can and can't appear on our screens that's a bad sign.0 -
I think you'll find the media become active participants all the time in the democratic process. Most of the print media even thinks it's acceptable to advise us who to vote for.Charles said:
Because it is the media becoming an active participant in the democratic process.Scott_P said:
ITV are a commercial TV station. In what sense is a commercial decision inappropriate?Charles said:It's not a conspiracy - it's clearly a commercial decision by ITV because they want "the big debate". But it's inappropriate
Vote Leave is the official campaign - it should be able to appoint its representative to the major debates of the referendum.
Fortunately, I just listen to the voices in my head. Much safer.0 -
It is worth noting the venom with which the Brexiteers are attacking a decision to let Nigel Farage appear on TV.
They really do seem to think he is a loser for them0 -
What nonsense - would you want ITV picking Gerry Adams to participate on behalf of Remain? It's the same thing.Scott_P said:
Except it's not.Charles said:Because it is the media becoming an active participant in the democratic process.
They made, as you said, a commercial decision.
You are proposing that an independent, commercial organisation should have abandoned those principles in favour of a political decision.
When politicians are dictating who can and can't appear on our screens that's a bad sign.0 -
I don't see any commercial benefit in that decision, nor would I watch the show, but I wouldn't throw a massive public hissy fit that makes me look scared of someone supposedly on my sidePlato_Says said:What nonsense - would you want ITV picking Gerry Adams to participate on behalf of Remain? It's the same thing.
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You mean how the Tories normally talk about the BBC?AlastairMeeks said:
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster?0 -
Why? Mr Meeks is one the sensible and measured posters on here...Charles said:
MODERATORSAlastairMeeks said:
But don't worry, I'm confident that no one is paying you to spew your vapid bilge.Plato_Says said:
I don't think you're on strong ground to throw stones given you think PB has been infiltrated by agent provocateurs in the pay of foreign governments.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sure Nigel Farage will be technically decent at the job. The problem for Leave is that almost everyone who isn't already convinced by him hates him.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Would any Leave supporter, however, care to try to defend the Vote Leave response to this development?
ttp://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/730523672306429956/photo/1
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster? It's not a good look.
Please delete this post
Mr Meeks - you can, and should, be better than this0 -
That's just nonsense.Scott_P said:
Except it's not.Charles said:Because it is the media becoming an active participant in the democratic process.
They made, as you said, a commercial decision.
You are proposing that an independent, commercial organisation should have abandoned those principles in favour of a political decision.
When politicians are dictating who can and can't appear on our screens that's a bad sign.
They want to produce a show - for good commercial reasons - that could have a material influence on the outcome of the referendum. As a result they need to engage with the official campaigns.
(It may also have escaped your notice, but in accepting the PM's refusal to appear against anyone but Farage, ITV is allowing one politician to dictate who appears on screens)0 -
Here we go: the debate on the debates again.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
I'd have thought Farage, Hannan/Boris and Gisela Stuart v. Clegg/Farron, Alan Johnson/Chukka Ummna and Osborne/Crabb would be fair. You could throw businessmen on each side too, if you liked: Theo Paphitis and Karen Brady, for example.
The trouble is that, without having a Conservative on both sides, the debate will tend to skew Conservative viewers in favour of the side that does.
I expect we're heading for something similar to GE2015: a 7-8-9 way debate with everyone on stage again, plus a few heavy interview and audience Q&A again.0 -
Alas you're wrong - Farage is very good on the TV most of the time. As Robert noted, he dismembered Clegg. Your guy talked about going to WAR!!! It's become a running joke to blame everything on Brexit.Scott_P said:It is worth noting the venom with which the Brexiteers are attacking a decision to let Nigel Farage appear on TV.
They really do seem to think he is a loser for them0 -
I disagree. Newspapers are just noises off - another recommendation.rcs1000 said:
I think you'll find the media become active participants all the time in the democratic process. Most of the print media even thinks it's acceptable to advise us who to vote for.Charles said:
Because it is the media becoming an active participant in the democratic process.Scott_P said:
ITV are a commercial TV station. In what sense is a commercial decision inappropriate?Charles said:It's not a conspiracy - it's clearly a commercial decision by ITV because they want "the big debate". But it's inappropriate
Vote Leave is the official campaign - it should be able to appoint its representative to the major debates of the referendum.
Fortunately, I just listen to the voices in my head. Much safer.
The debates - as we saw in the 2010 and 2015 election - can have a material impact on the overall campaign. That makes them a different category.
Personally I think the shape and participants should be regulated.0 -
Which foreign potentate is seeking to influence the course of PB below-the-line debates? A heinous crime!
On the other hand, OGH will rightly be proud his site has been targeted in this fashion.
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Because it was an unpleasant, personal and unnecessary post. Even the best slip from time to time, and on this occasion he did.murali_s said:
Why? Mr Meeks is one the sensible and measured posters on here...Charles said:
MODERATORSAlastairMeeks said:
But don't worry, I'm confident that no one is paying you to spew your vapid bilge.Plato_Says said:
I don't think you're on strong ground to throw stones given you think PB has been infiltrated by agent provocateurs in the pay of foreign governments.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sure Nigel Farage will be technically decent at the job. The problem for Leave is that almost everyone who isn't already convinced by him hates him.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Would any Leave supporter, however, care to try to defend the Vote Leave response to this development?
ttp://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/730523672306429956/photo/1
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster? It's not a good look.
Please delete this post
Mr Meeks - you can, and should, be better than this0 -
I'm not sure I'd compare Farage (the leader of Britain's third most popular political party, and which won the European elections) with Gerry Adams.Plato_Says said:
What nonsense - would you want ITV picking Gerry Adams to participate on behalf of Remain? It's the same thing.Scott_P said:
Except it's not.Charles said:Because it is the media becoming an active participant in the democratic process.
They made, as you said, a commercial decision.
You are proposing that an independent, commercial organisation should have abandoned those principles in favour of a political decision.
When politicians are dictating who can and can't appear on our screens that's a bad sign.0 -
What's the phrase? That's just nonsense.Charles said:They want to produce a show - for good commercial reasons - that could have a material influence on the outcome of the referendum. As a result they need to engage with the official campaigns.
They want to produce a show - for good commercial reasons. That's it. They are a commercial organisation, that made a commercial decision.
"could have a material influence on the outcome of the referendum. As a result they need to engage with the official campaigns."
You still want them to make a political decision. That's nonsense
That's nonsense. It may also have escaped your notice but Gove is appearing on our screens, against the PM, on another channel.Charles said:(It may also have escaped your notice, but in accepting the PM's refusal to appear against anyone but Farage, ITV is allowing one politician to dictate who appears on screens)
Are you really so scared that Farage is going to cock it up, again?0 -
Perhaps we should replace BBC Two with The Referendum Channel. Wall to wall coverage, with interviews, debates, polling, etc.Charles said:
I disagree. Newspapers are just noises off - another recommendation.rcs1000 said:
I think you'll find the media become active participants all the time in the democratic process. Most of the print media even thinks it's acceptable to advise us who to vote for.Charles said:
Because it is the media becoming an active participant in the democratic process.Scott_P said:
ITV are a commercial TV station. In what sense is a commercial decision inappropriate?Charles said:It's not a conspiracy - it's clearly a commercial decision by ITV because they want "the big debate". But it's inappropriate
Vote Leave is the official campaign - it should be able to appoint its representative to the major debates of the referendum.
Fortunately, I just listen to the voices in my head. Much safer.
The debates - as we saw in the 2010 and 2015 election - can have a material impact on the overall campaign. That makes them a different category.
Personally I think the shape and participants should be regulated.
0 -
That's an interesting take - I'm not quite seeing why a multi-participant would be appropriate. What angle are you thinking of?Casino_Royale said:
Here we go: the debate on the debates again.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
I'd have thought Farage, Hannan/Boris and Gisela Stuart v. Clegg/Farron, Alan Johnson/Chukka Ummna and Osborne/Crabb would be fair. You could throw businessmen on each side too, if you liked: Theo Paphitis and Karen Brady, for example.
The trouble is that, without having a Conservative on both sides, the debate will tend to skew Conservative viewers in favour of the side that does.
I expect we're heading for something similar to GE2015: a 7-8-9 way debate with everyone on stage again, plus a few heavy interview and audience Q&A again.0 -
I read somewhere (can't find the link) that of all the interviewees Radio 4 had invited onto its programmes to discuss the European Union, the vast majority of interviews about the subject were with Remainers. Of those that weren't, Farage totally dominated.Plato_Says said:
I agree with you re Farage making the case well - I'm objecting as Leave are to ITV picking Farage without their endorsement. It's like asking a United fan to talk about Manchester on behalf of City.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Cameron being unwilling to debate head to head isn't a move I expected. I guess his mojo has taken a bit of a knock over the last couple of weeks. He's certainly piling up the *wrong sort of coverage*.
It's hard to escape the conclusion that, amongst mainstream media broadcasters, they (still) view Leaving the European as an eccentric and fringe position, and because they think Farage is its spiritual leader (and he's good audiovisual copy) he's the token individual they must occasionally be obliged to invite to vent about it.
The fact the population is split 50:50 - and its debate neutrality, not party political neutrality - that should be their remit here to properly inform the public seems to escape them.0 -
So you should be happy he is getting more airtime then.Plato_Says said:Alas you're wrong - Farage is very good on the TV most of the time.
Strangely, not feeling the love this morning...0 -
0
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Richard Tyndall is just a pseudonym for Jean Claude Juncker. On the even of the poll, "Richard Tyndall" will announce a Damascene conversion to Remain, and (it is hoped by the EU elites) pull a number of genuine Leavers over to Remain.RobD said:Which foreign potentate is seeking to influence the course of PB below-the-line debates? A heinous crime!
On the other hand, OGH will rightly be proud his site has been targeted in this fashion.
Really, if you haven't worked out their plan, there's no hope for you.0 -
Classy. Real classy.AlastairMeeks said:
But don't worry, I'm confident that no one is paying you to spew your vapid bilge.Plato_Says said:
I don't think you're on strong ground to throw stones given you think PB has been infiltrated by agent provocateurs in the pay of foreign governments.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sure Nigel Farage will be technically decent at the job. The problem for Leave is that almost everyone who isn't already convinced by him hates him.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Would any Leave supporter, however, care to try to defend the Vote Leave response to this development?
ttp://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/730523672306429956/photo/1
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster? It's not a good look.0 -
rcs1000 said:
Richard Tyndall is just a pseudonym for Jean Claude Juncker. On the even of the poll, "Richard Tyndall" will announce a Damascene conversion to Remain, and (it is hoped by the EU elites) pull a number of genuine Leavers over to Remain.RobD said:Which foreign potentate is seeking to influence the course of PB below-the-line debates? A heinous crime!
On the other hand, OGH will rightly be proud his site has been targeted in this fashion.
Really, if you haven't worked out their plan, there's no hope for you.
My gob has literally been smacked.0 -
I agree with you here - I'm not generally in favour of regulation, but debates have a huge impact on public perceptions, both themselves and the resultant coverage. We're in a reasonable position now to know the up and downsides of various formats/number of debates/timing/audience participation.Charles said:
I disagree. Newspapers are just noises off - another recommendation.rcs1000 said:
I think you'll find the media become active participants all the time in the democratic process. Most of the print media even thinks it's acceptable to advise us who to vote for.Charles said:
Because it is the media becoming an active participant in the democratic process.Scott_P said:
ITV are a commercial TV station. In what sense is a commercial decision inappropriate?Charles said:It's not a conspiracy - it's clearly a commercial decision by ITV because they want "the big debate". But it's inappropriate
Vote Leave is the official campaign - it should be able to appoint its representative to the major debates of the referendum.
Fortunately, I just listen to the voices in my head. Much safer.
The debates - as we saw in the 2010 and 2015 election - can have a material impact on the overall campaign. That makes them a different category.
Personally I think the shape and participants should be regulated.
Debates have become part of the landscape - they need to be treated in the same way as PEB et al.0 -
The state of the Brexiteers this morning is fascinating.
One of the most prominent figures on their side of the argument is getting the highest profile coverage possible and their reaction?
WE NEED REGULATION TO PREVENT THIS HAPPENING !!!0 -
I saw that too - bugger - wish I could remember where. The stats were astonishing. I recall Hannan saying several times, he was only invited on if he'd play the fringe-person opinion - when he said he wouldn't, the BBC stopped calling.Casino_Royale said:
I read somewhere (can't find the link) that of all the interviewees Radio 4 had invited onto its programmes to discuss the European Union, the vast majority of interviews about the subject were with Remainers. Of those that weren't, Farage totally dominated.Plato_Says said:
I agree with you re Farage making the case well - I'm objecting as Leave are to ITV picking Farage without their endorsement. It's like asking a United fan to talk about Manchester on behalf of City.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Cameron being unwilling to debate head to head isn't a move I expected. I guess his mojo has taken a bit of a knock over the last couple of weeks. He's certainly piling up the *wrong sort of coverage*.
It's hard to escape the conclusion that, amongst mainstream media broadcasters, they (still) view Leaving the European as an eccentric and fringe position, and because they think Farage is its spiritual leader (and he's good audiovisual copy) he's the token individual they must occasionally be obliged to invite to vent about it.
The fact the population is split 50:50 - and its debate neutrality, not party political neutrality - that should be their remit here to properly inform the public seems to escape them.0 -
Boris and Gove need to disassociate themselves pronto from the lunatic who sent out that email last night. After Redwood's attack on Cameron, there is a pattern emerging here. It looks like the Tory right are increasingly seeing this campaign as a direct means of getting rid of Cameron.0
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Of course - though it would be equally bad for the media to determine who can and can't appear on the screens, particularly during a referendum / election campaign. The electronic media is supposed to be impartial and unbiased. Whether or not you think that's a good thing is beside the point (FWIW, I think the time for that requirement - that of the one-/two-provider era - has passed and there's no reason that radio and TV shouldn't be able to have editorial opinions, the same as the print media).Scott_P said:
Except it's not.Charles said:Because it is the media becoming an active participant in the democratic process.
They made, as you said, a commercial decision.
You are proposing that an independent, commercial organisation should have abandoned those principles in favour of a political decision.
When politicians are dictating who can and can't appear on our screens that's a bad sign.
If ITV wants a set-piece debate between Leave and Remain, that is absolutely their right. But if it's going to market it as such, it needs to have buy-in from the two sides. It would be misleading to get two blokes from down the pub to put the case - or one formal representative and some other makeweight. Once they've issued the invites to the two sides, it's for the campaigns to nominate someone. If one side declines to participate, then, perhaps, there is a case for the media organisation to come up with an appropriate substitute (with only two sides, the option of empty-chairing can't apply).
Farage is the leader of UKIP: he should absolutely have a role in the media coverage of the referendum on the subject his party was created for. But he is not the head of Leave and unless appointed otherwise, is not an official spokesman for it. The Conservative Party is officially neutral in the debate so he shouldn't be debating Cameron as leader of that - as Cameron cannot speak on behalf of his party.
Either we have rules about election coverage or we don't. Given that we do have them, it's not necessarily open to ITV, or anyone else, to simply make 'a commercial decision' on an election programme.0 -
A set piece TV debate is a major piece of the campaign furniture. The terms of the debate should be agreed with both official campaigns.Scott_P said:
What's the phrase? That's just nonsense.Charles said:They want to produce a show - for good commercial reasons - that could have a material influence on the outcome of the referendum. As a result they need to engage with the official campaigns.
They want to produce a show - for good commercial reasons. That's it. They are a commercial organisation, that made a commercial decision.
"could have a material influence on the outcome of the referendum. As a result they need to engage with the official campaigns."
You still want them to make a political decision. That's nonsense
That's nonsense. It may also have escaped your notice but Gove is appearing on our screens, against the PM, on another channel.Charles said:(It may also have escaped your notice, but in accepting the PM's refusal to appear against anyone but Farage, ITV is allowing one politician to dictate who appears on screens)
Are you really so scared that Farage is going to cock it up, again?
I am not aware that Gove is appearing head-to-head against the PM on another channel - perhaps you can provide details as I am sure that a lot of people on here would like to watch it
But you are not able to rise above tribal cheering and think through the implications of ITVs decision for future elections, so I can't be bothered to waste any more time on your education0 -
Straight out of the SNP playbook. "There will be consequences". FFS.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sure Nigel Farage will be technically decent at the job. The problem for Leave is that almost everyone who isn't already convinced by him hates him.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Would any Leave supporter, however, care to try to defend the Vote Leave response to this development?
http://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/730523672306429956/photo/1
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster? It's not a good look.
0 -
It's not an electiondavid_herdson said:Either we have rules about election coverage or we don't. Given that we do have them, it's not necessarily open to ITV, or anyone else, to simply make 'a commercial decision' on an election programme.
0 -
Farage is a good debater but he is a distinctly marmite character who appeals most to those already committed to Leave. This vote is not about them, it is about the undecided.0
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I will honestly say I think it could go either way. On present form I veer toward it not going well with Nige sadly, though on his day he can be amazing.Scott_P said:It is worth noting the venom with which the Brexiteers are attacking a decision to let Nigel Farage appear on TV.
They really do seem to think he is a loser for them0 -
Precisely. I'm genuinely puzzled that some here don't get it. Or think sledging Leave will invalidate it's perfectly reasonable annoyance.david_herdson said:
Of course - though it would be equally bad for the media to determine who can and can't appear on the screens, particularly during a referendum / election campaign. The electronic media is supposed to be impartial and unbiased. Whether or not you think that's a good thing is beside the point (FWIW, I think the time for that requirement - that of the one-/two-provider era - has passed and there's no reason that radio and TV shouldn't be able to have editorial opinions, the same as the print media).Scott_P said:
Except it's not.Charles said:Because it is the media becoming an active participant in the democratic process.
They made, as you said, a commercial decision.
You are proposing that an independent, commercial organisation should have abandoned those principles in favour of a political decision.
When politicians are dictating who can and can't appear on our screens that's a bad sign.
If ITV wants a set-piece debate between Leave and Remain, that is absolutely their right. But if it's going to market it as such, it needs to have buy-in from the two sides. It would be misleading to get two blokes from down the pub to put the case - or one formal representative and some other makeweight. Once they've issued the invites to the two sides, it's for the campaigns to nominate someone. If one side declines to participate, then, perhaps, there is a case for the media organisation to come up with an appropriate substitute (with only two sides, the option of empty-chairing can't apply).
Farage is the leader of UKIP: he should absolutely have a role in the media coverage of the referendum on the subject his party was created for. But he is not the head of Leave and unless appointed otherwise, is not an official spokesman for it. The Conservative Party is officially neutral in the debate so he shouldn't be debating Cameron as leader of that - as Cameron cannot speak on behalf of his party.
Either we have rules about election coverage or we don't. Given that we do have them, it's not necessarily open to ITV, or anyone else, to simply make 'a commercial decision' on an election programme.0 -
For all Farage's many faults he's quick on his feet and has an amiable 'bloke down the pub' style - and if Cameron gets ratty he can look vindictive.....rcs1000 said:
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.0 -
Which makes the reaction all the more bizarre.CarlottaVance said:For all Farage's many faults he's quick on his feet and has an amiable 'bloke down the pub' style - and if Cameron gets ratty he can look vindictive.....
"He's a good campaigner, he won the last TV debates, he is on our side, we have the best arguments, we need regulation to keep him off TV..."
What exactly is the Brexiteers problem?0 -
“ITV has effectively joined the official in campaign and there will be consequences for its future – the people in No 10 won’t be there for long.”
That is an extraordinary statement from a Leave spokesman on so many levels.
Threatening broadcasters because they do not do as you wish is a really bad look. And I wonder how delighted Dave is that Leave is now saying he is on his way out having, previously said he cannot be trusted on economic issues.0 -
David Herdson made a very well argued case (saying what I was trying to say, but much more eruditely).Scott_P said:
How can you tell if someone has a "killer point" in an on-line discussion?Charles said:Think you have a killer point do you?
Run along.
When an opponent tells them to "run along"...
You responded with a point that is factually correct, but utterly irrelevant.
0 -
Interestingly Peter Kellner, who was President of online pollster YouGov at the time the report was published but who has since retired, went on record at a Media Society event on Monday to say he thought that phone polls were closer to the mark on this occasion.
http://www.ncpolitics.uk/2016/05/11-eu-referendum-update.html/0 -
Here is the "perfectly reasonable" reaction
@rosschawkins: UKIP say Vote Leave are threatening court action to stop Farage appearing with PM on ITV
I suppose if we had regulation to stop Nigel Farage appearing on TV, we wouldn't need court action...0 -
we're all rather tetchy today. Is it worries about the ukrainian eurovision entry?
(have I missed the eurovision thread, btw?)
PS my bilge is the vapidest, and I will fight anyone who suggests otherwise0 -
This is a great scoop for ITV but above all else this is what Nigel has worked for over 20 years, to debate with a pro EU PM days before an EU referendum. This is the occasion that will absolutely define his career, there'll be no damp squib, no score draws, everything he's ever worked for will be encapsulated in an hour or so.
Its fair to say he's not universally admired on here, but there is nobody better versed on the EU, if he's on song he'll destroy Cameron. His tactic will be to goad him into his Flashman act and point out the EU is all about the cabal between govt and big business which has compressed the wages of the lower paid.
You can argue its high risk, I'm sure some Leavers are nervous but he'll be as well briefed and prepared as anybody, one slip up from Cameron and Nigel will nail him. I actually believe its Cameron taking the bigger risk and indicative of the mood in Remain, if they were confident of winning he'd wave Nigel away, massive roll of the dice by Cameron.0 -
On National Limerick Day ....
Last night OGH on PB he did say
I'm seventy, Hip Hip Horray
My Looks and Hair May Have Gone
Genetics will come for Robert Smithson
0 -
You know all about sledging, Plato.Plato_Says said:
Precisely. I'm genuinely puzzled that some here don't get it. Or think sledging Leave will invalidate it's perfectly reasonable annoyance.david_herdson said:
Of course - though it would be equally bad for the media to determine who can and can't appear on the screens, particularly during a referendum / election campaign. The electronic media is supposed to be impartial and unbiased. Whether or not you think that's a good thing is beside the point (FWIW, I think the time for that requirement - that of the one-/two-provider era - has passed and there's no reason that radio and TV shouldn't be able to have editorial opinions, the same as the print media).Scott_P said:
Except it's not.Charles said:Because it is the media becoming an active participant in the democratic process.
They made, as you said, a commercial decision.
You are proposing that an independent, commercial organisation should have abandoned those principles in favour of a political decision.
When politicians are dictating who can and can't appear on our screens that's a bad sign.
If ITV wants a set-piece debate between Leave and Remain, that is absolutely their right. But if it's going to market it as such, it needs to have buy-in from the two sides. It would be misleading to get two blokes from down the pub to put the case - or one formal representative and some other makeweight. Once they've issued the invites to the two sides, it's for the campaigns to nominate someone. If one side declines to participate, then, perhaps, there is a case for the media organisation to come up with an appropriate substitute (with only two sides, the option of empty-chairing can't apply).
Farage is the leader of UKIP: he should absolutely have a role in the media coverage of the referendum on the subject his party was created for. But he is not the head of Leave and unless appointed otherwise, is not an official spokesman for it. The Conservative Party is officially neutral in the debate so he shouldn't be debating Cameron as leader of that - as Cameron cannot speak on behalf of his party.
Either we have rules about election coverage or we don't. Given that we do have them, it's not necessarily open to ITV, or anyone else, to simply make 'a commercial decision' on an election programme.
0 -
Sarah Jane Mee Mees opinions on sky are totally meaningless..The Channel is barely watchable as a news programme..An idiot for Political News Editor..a complete Dork as Economics Editor..Murnahan is useless, thinks he is Neill ..Holmes should be presenting a kiddies programme..or nothing at all..They got rid of all the good journos....0
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They're just drumming up interest with a bit of controversy. The important thing for Leave is that as many people as possible see the debate.Scott_P said:
Which makes the reaction all the more bizarre.CarlottaVance said:For all Farage's many faults he's quick on his feet and has an amiable 'bloke down the pub' style - and if Cameron gets ratty he can look vindictive.....
"He's a good campaigner, he won the last TV debates, he is on our side, we have the best arguments, we need regulation to keep him off TV..."
What exactly is the Brexiteers problem?0 -
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I totally disagree. Which good journos are you thinking of? Glen O'Labour was incredibly biased, never liked Joey Jones either.richardDodd said:Sarah Jane Mee Mees opinions on sky are totally meaningless..The Channel is barely watchable as a news programme..An idiot for Political News Editor..a complete Dork as Economics Editor..Murnahan is useless, thinks he is Neill ..Holmes should be presenting a kiddies programme..or nothing at all..They got rid of all the good journos....
0 -
MonikerDiCanio said:
They're just drumming up interest with a bit of controversy. The important thing for Leave is that as many people as possible see the debate.Scott_P said:
Which makes the reaction all the more bizarre.CarlottaVance said:For all Farage's many faults he's quick on his feet and has an amiable 'bloke down the pub' style - and if Cameron gets ratty he can look vindictive.....
"He's a good campaigner, he won the last TV debates, he is on our side, we have the best arguments, we need regulation to keep him off TV..."
What exactly is the Brexiteers problem?
They should put Gerry Adams up for Remain - that will create some controversy. The important thing for Remain is that as many people as possible see the debate.
0 -
I am struggling to see how having Nigel Farage on primetime TV arguing the Leave cause against the PM is biased against Leave.0
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There once was an old Jacobite
Whose predictions just clogged up the site
and though PB laughed
and said he was daft
they shut up when the bugger was right0 -
Morning all,blackburn63 said:This is a great scoop for ITV but above all else this is what Nigel has worked for over 20 years, to debate with a pro EU PM days before an EU referendum. This is the occasion that will absolutely define his career, there'll be no damp squib, no score draws, everything he's ever worked for will be encapsulated in an hour or so.
Its fair to say he's not universally admired on here, but there is nobody better versed on the EU, if he's on song he'll destroy Cameron. His tactic will be to goad him into his Flashman act and point out the EU is all about the cabal between govt and big business which has compressed the wages of the lower paid.
You can argue its high risk, I'm sure some Leavers are nervous but he'll be as well briefed and prepared as anybody, one slip up from Cameron and Nigel will nail him. I actually believe its Cameron taking the bigger risk and indicative of the mood in Remain, if they were confident of winning he'd wave Nigel away, massive roll of the dice by Cameron.
An alternative view is that Remain have taken the view that reinforcing the association of leave with Farage is good for them.0 -
Fun and games on here again here this morning.0
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I think, and without wishing to provoke our northern neighbours, it would be a bit like the SPL champions taking on the PL champions. Although respectively top of their tree, the SPL champions would usually expect to get a shellacking.blackburn63 said:This is a great scoop for ITV but above all else this is what Nigel has worked for over 20 years, to debate with a pro EU PM days before an EU referendum. This is the occasion that will absolutely define his career, there'll be no damp squib, no score draws, everything he's ever worked for will be encapsulated in an hour or so.
Its fair to say he's not universally admired on here, but there is nobody better versed on the EU, if he's on song he'll destroy Cameron. His tactic will be to goad him into his Flashman act and point out the EU is all about the cabal between govt and big business which has compressed the wages of the lower paid.
You can argue its high risk, I'm sure some Leavers are nervous but he'll be as well briefed and prepared as anybody, one slip up from Cameron and Nigel will nail him. I actually believe its Cameron taking the bigger risk and indicative of the mood in Remain, if they were confident of winning he'd wave Nigel away, massive roll of the dice by Cameron.
You misunderestimate Dave at your peril. He is PM and has had everyone throw rubbish his way on every subject from the EU to the spare room subsidy. He is an operator. Nige has rarely not had to answer a tricky question, or to evade a potentially dangerous line of reasoning because he always wants to answer as many EU questions as possible, and usually knows more than his interviewer. Dave is the master at interviewing, ie being a politician, which is more important than being the master of his subject.
Nige is excellent on his day and great fun to watch, and has the nation shouting "gertcha" from its armchair, but Cam he ain't.0 -
I disagree, others will know more tv channel audiences but I'd guess those that watch Corrie don't always stay up to watch Newsnight. Farage is far more likely to engage with Corrie viewers than Cameron.MarkHopkins said:MonikerDiCanio said:
They're just drumming up interest with a bit of controversy. The important thing for Leave is that as many people as possible see the debate.Scott_P said:
Which makes the reaction all the more bizarre.CarlottaVance said:For all Farage's many faults he's quick on his feet and has an amiable 'bloke down the pub' style - and if Cameron gets ratty he can look vindictive.....
"He's a good campaigner, he won the last TV debates, he is on our side, we have the best arguments, we need regulation to keep him off TV..."
What exactly is the Brexiteers problem?
They should put Gerry Adams up for Remain - that will create some controversy. The important thing for Remain is that as many people as possible see the debate.
The more I think about this the more positive I get0 -
One upside of the hiatus in polling is that there has been time for a significant move to manifest itself one way or the other. When you have lots of polls overlapping each other then it gets very difficult to identify any trend from the statistical noise.
It is not easy to determine which way things are going. I don't think that either side has really cut through. The cries to authority by Remain persist. Are they going to overwhelm by sheer weight of numbers or fall into ridicule? The lack of love on the Remain side for the EU is becoming increasingly apparent. The problem is that an argument that they want a reformed EU immediately runs into Cameron's largely failed efforts in that respect. They also really struggle with the direction of travel for the EU which they don't much like either.
Leave have become somewhat more coherent in fixing a position that focuses on immigration. The EFTA type options within the single market seem to have been abandoned although the terms of our relationship with the EU post departure remain an inevitable mystery (since it is a matter for negotiation). That frankly disappoints people like me who wanted to reduce the risks of Leave by remaining in a close relationship with the EU with access to the Single Market, even if that proved to be an intermediate step. Does it make Leave look more risky and thus reinforce the cries to authority? I think it does but that may well just reflect my own wishes on the matter.
My gut feel is that the TV debates may well prove decisive. There will be some break through moment, like when Miliband denied that the previous Labour government had spent too much, where a lot of people will suddenly think, no, that can't be right. No wonder both sides are so nervous about them.0 -
Of course that's their viewrottenborough said:
Morning all,blackburn63 said:This is a great scoop for ITV but above all else this is what Nigel has worked for over 20 years, to debate with a pro EU PM days before an EU referendum. This is the occasion that will absolutely define his career, there'll be no damp squib, no score draws, everything he's ever worked for will be encapsulated in an hour or so.
Its fair to say he's not universally admired on here, but there is nobody better versed on the EU, if he's on song he'll destroy Cameron. His tactic will be to goad him into his Flashman act and point out the EU is all about the cabal between govt and big business which has compressed the wages of the lower paid.
You can argue its high risk, I'm sure some Leavers are nervous but he'll be as well briefed and prepared as anybody, one slip up from Cameron and Nigel will nail him. I actually believe its Cameron taking the bigger risk and indicative of the mood in Remain, if they were confident of winning he'd wave Nigel away, massive roll of the dice by Cameron.
An alternative view is that Remain have taken the view that reinforcing the association of leave with Farage is good for them.0 -
Accuracy and honesty is a terrible thing.Charles said:
MODERATORSAlastairMeeks said:
But don't worry, I'm confident that no one is paying you to spew your vapid bilge.Plato_Says said:
I don't think you're on strong ground to throw stones given you think PB has been infiltrated by agent provocateurs in the pay of foreign governments.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sure Nigel Farage will be technically decent at the job. The problem for Leave is that almost everyone who isn't already convinced by him hates him.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Would any Leave supporter, however, care to try to defend the Vote Leave response to this development?
ttp://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/730523672306429956/photo/1
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster? It's not a good look.
Please delete this post
Mr Meeks - you can, and should, be better than this0 -
You'll find that everything is being coordinated from Finchley Road....rcs1000 said:
That is a seriously over the top response from Leave.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm sure Nigel Farage will be technically decent at the job. The problem for Leave is that almost everyone who isn't already convinced by him hates him.rcs1000 said:
I believe that Gove has said he won't debate Cameron. I don't want Boris, because I think Cameron would destroy him.Plato_Says said:Is it too early for news today?
The media are talking to themselves about some BBC changes that may or not be happening [I can't tell who's in charge after all of Osborne's meddling]. And ITV has bizarrely invited Farage to go against the PM in the debates.
Farage isn't a big wheel in the official Leave campaign. It's obviously inappropriate to stick him up against Cameron who is leading the official Remain team.
I don't mind Farage speaking and debating - but ITV shouldn't be playing around like this, and certainly shouldn't be dancing to Number 10, if that was indeed the case.
In any case, given the way Farage took Clegg apart, I reckon he'll do a good job.
Would any Leave supporter, however, care to try to defend the Vote Leave response to this development?
http://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/730523672306429956/photo/1
Mad conspiracy theories and vague threats against a national broadcaster? It's not a good look.0
