Mr. Gate, somewhat surprised given Hamilton got a 10s penalty (I wonder if they consider those equivalent penalties) for Silverstone where he took out Verstappen and still got 25 points.
F1: worth recalling that the stewards have previously said that the outcome of an incident (referring to Silverstone) does not have an impact on any ruling regarding the incident itself.
“The Stewards heard from the driver of car 33 (Max Verstappen), the driver of car 44 (Lewis Hamilton) and team representatives, reviewed the video evidence and determined that the driver of Car 33 was predominantly to blame for the collision with Car 44 at Turn 2.
“Car 44 was exiting the pits. Car 33 was on the main straight. At the 50m board before Turn 1, Car 44 was significantly ahead of Car 33. Car 33 braked late and started to move alongside Car 44, although at no point in the sequence does Car 33 get any further forward than just behind the front wheel of Car 44.
“During the hearing the driver of Car 33 asserted that the cause of the incident was the driver of Car 44 opening the steering after Turn 1 and “squeezing” him to the apex of turn 2. The driver of Car 44 asserted that the driver of Car 33 attempted to pass very late and should have given up the corner either by backing off sooner, or by turning left behind the kerb.
“The Stewards observed on CCTV footage that the driver of Car 44 was driving an avoiding line, although his position caused Car 33 to go onto the kerb. But further, the Stewards observed that Car 33 was not at all alongside Car 44 until significantly into the entry into Turn 1. In the opinion of the Stewards, this manoeuvre was attempted too late for the driver of Car 33 to have “the right to racing room”. While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his position was reasonable and therefore find that the driver of Car 33 was predominantly to blame for the incident.
“In coming to the penalty the Stewards emphasise that they have only considered the incident itself and not the consequences thereof.”
Everyone has the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. And as much as we might not like it, lots of bad people get off on technicalities. Everyone has the right to use the law to their advantage.
Nope. They have the right not to be convicted of things until proven guilty, which is not the same. I was pretty certain during his lifetime that Jimmy Savile was a kiddy fiddler. Was I infringing a right of his by holding that opinion?
You should attend to the theories of Kurt Gödel. There is no such thing as proof in the abstract, there is only proof within the rules of a given system.
Boris blundering around trying to find someone to blame over the Tory poll lead collapse. Anyone but himself, of course.
It turns out jacking up taxes and squeezing wages may not be a smart idea. Funny that.
Just been shopping and the price of petrol has now hit the highest I've ever seen. Just as lots of families are famously losing £20 per week. Now is the moment that Boris thought it a great idea to take more money out of our wages.
He doesn't deserve our vote and neither do the Tories, until they realise that wages are for people to keep to spend on what they need and not simply due to the Treasury to pay for those who aren't working.
Petrol is the least of it; how many times have home fuel prices gone up this year? If we have a cold winter, it’s going to be an expensive one.
Mr. Sandpit, I'd dispute part of that. Hamilton was further ahead on the straight but, having just left the pits, moving much more slowly. Verstappen was slightly alongside going into the corner.
Somewhat surprised there was a penalty for that. Again, I'd go back to Silverstone. Hamilton was about as far back as Verstappen here, the difference being he had room and still made contact.
I'd be interested to see footage of other incidents there to compare lines and the like, had I the time. Stewards have decided the penalty so they'll have to get on with it.
Everyone has the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. And as much as we might not like it, lots of bad people get off on technicalities. Everyone has the right to use the law to their advantage.
Nope. They have the right not to be convicted of things until proven guilty, which is not the same. I was pretty certain during his lifetime that Jimmy Savile was a kiddy fiddler. Was I infringing a right of his by holding that opinion?
You should attend to the theories of Kurt Gödel. There is no such thing as proof in the abstract, there is only proof within the rules of a given system.
Well, anyone is free to say what they like about anyone else. Perhaps Political Betting could take a leaf out of the Mail's book and say .... as the Mail said about the five men linked with the death of Stephen Lawrence.
Boris blundering around trying to find someone to blame over the Tory poll lead collapse. Anyone but himself, of course.
It turns out jacking up taxes and squeezing wages may not be a smart idea. Funny that.
Just been shopping and the price of petrol has now hit the highest I've ever seen. Just as lots of families are famously losing £20 per week. Now is the moment that Boris thought it a great idea to take more money out of our wages.
He doesn't deserve our vote and neither do the Tories, until they realise that wages are for people to keep to spend on what they need and not simply due to the Treasury to pay for those who aren't working.
Out of interest how much is it ?
It’s 130p a litre at the local Sainsbury’s here.
133.9p at Tesco's
What the hell happened there to Elliot? Sounds horrific that they won't even show a replay of it.
Hope he's able to recover and it's not career threatening. It sounds really bad.
Everyone has the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. And as much as we might not like it, lots of bad people get off on technicalities. Everyone has the right to use the law to their advantage.
But think of the optics.
Rather than rebut the allegations he's arguing you cannot charge.
It is reminiscent of those MPs who were charged for fraud over their expenses trying to have the charged dismissed because only Parliament can take action against them.
Hang on, were those MPs in the right? And is Andrew in the right? If you're not in the right, then you look pretty stupid, but no one is obliged to prove their innocence.
Tell me, how do you feel about Cristiano Ronaldo? I thought that banner at OT yesterday was utterly despicable.
"No one is obliged to prove their innocence"
Quite. As bad as the allegations against Andrew are, I cannot quite believe people are seriously using a 'why doesn't he just clear his name by facing it' approach (this is a summary not a quote of what people have said). I find it hard to accept that that is an approach they would advocate for most people in dealing with the police and courts.
I recall a similarly cavalier attitude to the burden of proof by investigators in Operation Midland implying the accused should prove their innocence.
Also, the stewards are not meant to consider the outcome of an incident, only the incident itself.
Mr. Sandpit, the Hungary incidents (wet, locked brakes, lap 1) were very difficult to try and assess because of those factors.
The stewards don't always get it right. I'm still annoyed about the 2012 (I think) penalty for Hulkenberg when he nudged Hamilton in soaking wet conditions in Brazil. I think it was 2007 when Hamilton got a stupid penalty in... Spa (perhaps) for not having sufficient red paint on his car.
Also, the stewards are not meant to consider the outcome of an incident, only the incident itself.
Mr. Sandpit, the Hungary incidents (wet, locked brakes, lap 1) were very difficult to try and assess because of those factors.
The stewards don't always get it right. I'm still annoyed about the 2012 (I think) penalty for Hulkenberg when he nudged Hamilton in soaking wet conditions in Brazil. I think it was 2007 when Hamilton got a stupid penalty in... Spa (perhaps) for not having sufficient red paint on his car.
I wonder if Raducanu might suffer from people thinking "she'll have plenty of changes to win SPoTY in years to come, let's give it to Tom Daley this year"?
I think her big problem is a lack of visibility.
She's not been on the TV as much of the other contenders.
I don't see how she doesn't win. At my son's football match this morning her win was the first topic of conversation among the parents, and I think most of us had watched the game. Her win is the sporting story of the decade. Add in that she's so young, seems such a lovely person, is telegenic, and her win lets us feel good about ourselves for a number of reasons... She could shoot someone on Seventh Avenue and still win.
I think it would result in better politics if certain things were more openly presented. Here are two suggestions:
1. All salaries (inc. adverts and payslips) expressed as both cash and total benefit with the pension contribution value set using a standard formula prescribed by independent body and varying as required to give accurate representation. The real cost and benefit of defined benefit pensions would be stated NOT the contributions. Employer's NI also shown clearly.
2. Hypothicate NHS, pension and social security parts of personal taxation. NHS totally funded from the personal tax elements apart from relevant sin taxes so that payslip show £XX to NHS as part of ZZ% funding from personal taxes.
The main thing is to make things more apparent and to educate the electorate in the realities of life.
Yes, I'd favour that too. I think people would actually be willing to pay more if they could see it clearly instead of going into an anonymous pot.
Transparency about what everyone pays, like in Norway (where you can look up anyone's tax return on a website), would be good too. True, Amazon don't care what we think about paying tuppence tax on £X billion, but individuals living swanky lifestyles while paying almost nothing would perhaps become a bit more restrained in making cunning arrangements.
Also, the stewards are not meant to consider the outcome of an incident, only the incident itself.
Mr. Sandpit, the Hungary incidents (wet, locked brakes, lap 1) were very difficult to try and assess because of those factors.
The stewards don't always get it right. I'm still annoyed about the 2012 (I think) penalty for Hulkenberg when he nudged Hamilton in soaking wet conditions in Brazil. I think it was 2007 when Hamilton got a stupid penalty in... Spa (perhaps) for not having sufficient red paint on his car.
Max Verstappen did.
The FIA/Stewards have transferred from being Ferrari International Assistance to Red Bull Assistance.
As close as the contest is, and considering Verstappen has won more races but is barely ahead because he's crashed out more, then that pressure may well be enough to see Hamilton win this year. I think he'll manage it.
Everyone has the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. And as much as we might not like it, lots of bad people get off on technicalities. Everyone has the right to use the law to their advantage.
Nope. They have the right not to be convicted of things until proven guilty, which is not the same. I was pretty certain during his lifetime that Jimmy Savile was a kiddy fiddler. Was I infringing a right of his by holding that opinion?
You should attend to the theories of Kurt Gödel. There is no such thing as proof in the abstract, there is only proof within the rules of a given system.
Well, anyone is free to say what they like about anyone else. Perhaps Political Betting could take a leaf out of the Mail's book and say .... as the Mail said about the five men linked with the death of Stephen Lawrence.
Yes and no. The rules of proof for saying differ from the rules for considering differ from the rules for convicting.
Mr. Sandpit, I'd dispute part of that. Hamilton was further ahead on the straight but, having just left the pits, moving much more slowly. Verstappen was slightly alongside going into the corner.
Somewhat surprised there was a penalty for that. Again, I'd go back to Silverstone. Hamilton was about as far back as Verstappen here, the difference being he had room and still made contact.
I'd be interested to see footage of other incidents there to compare lines and the like, had I the time. Stewards have decided the penalty so they'll have to get on with it.
Leaving aside everything else, it was bad racecraft by Verstappen. Hamilton was just out of the pits, on coldish tyres. Max was on tyres that were pretty much up to temperature. He should have yielded that corner and waited for the next.
Boris blundering around trying to find someone to blame over the Tory poll lead collapse. Anyone but himself, of course.
It turns out jacking up taxes and squeezing wages may not be a smart idea. Funny that.
Just been shopping and the price of petrol has now hit the highest I've ever seen. Just as lots of families are famously losing £20 per week. Now is the moment that Boris thought it a great idea to take more money out of our wages.
He doesn't deserve our vote and neither do the Tories, until they realise that wages are for people to keep to spend on what they need and not simply due to the Treasury to pay for those who aren't working.
Petrol is the least of it; how many times have home fuel prices gone up this year? If we have a cold winter, it’s going to be an expensive one.
Just wait until the eco-Stasi turn your gas off and force you to spend thousands on a shitty air-source heat pump system.
Didn't even look a foul to me. Incredibly harsh red card
Annoying that we didn't get a replay. Presumably it was subject to VAR...
It was.
When they didn't show the replay it confirmed it was a serious injury.
Obv a serious injury, but it didn't look a foul. Salah was right next to it, and didn't even appeal. It was only when he saw how badly hurt Elliott was that he stopped and ran to him
Mr. Sandpit, I'd dispute part of that. Hamilton was further ahead on the straight but, having just left the pits, moving much more slowly. Verstappen was slightly alongside going into the corner.
Somewhat surprised there was a penalty for that. Again, I'd go back to Silverstone. Hamilton was about as far back as Verstappen here, the difference being he had room and still made contact.
I'd be interested to see footage of other incidents there to compare lines and the like, had I the time. Stewards have decided the penalty so they'll have to get on with it.
Leaving aside everything else, it was bad racecraft by Verstappen. Hamilton was just out of the pits, on coldish tyres. Max was on tyres that were pretty much up to temperature. He should have yielded that corner and waited for the next.
There seems to be a lot of bad blood between those two at the moment. It might be worth the FIA sitting them both down in advance of the next race and reading the riot act.
I wonder if Raducanu might suffer from people thinking "she'll have plenty of changes to win SPoTY in years to come, let's give it to Tom Daley this year"?
I think her big problem is a lack of visibility.
She's not been on the TV as much of the other contenders.
The final being on Channel 4 was a big boost for her. Is she another Anthony Joshua? I think she's a better bet than AJ, but then I think her opponents are a better bet than those that AJ was up against.
Didn't even look a foul to me. Incredibly harsh red card
Annoying that we didn't get a replay. Presumably it was subject to VAR...
It was.
When they didn't show the replay it confirmed it was a serious injury.
Obv a serious injury, but it didn't look a foul. Salah was right next to it, and didn't even appeal. It was only when he saw how badly hurt Elliott was that he stopped and ran to him
I wonder if Raducanu might suffer from people thinking "she'll have plenty of changes to win SPoTY in years to come, let's give it to Tom Daley this year"?
I think her big problem is a lack of visibility.
She's not been on the TV as much of the other contenders.
I don't see how she doesn't win. At my son's football match this morning her win was the first topic of conversation among the parents, and I think most of us had watched the game. Her win is the sporting story of the decade. Add in that she's so young, seems such a lovely person, is telegenic, and her win lets us feel good about ourselves for a number of reasons... She could shoot someone on Seventh Avenue and still win.
Our best friends in the village stayed up to watch it, with their young kids. This morning at the junior Park Run, they were excited about it. Our little 'un was just watching the highlights on the news and shouting her on.
Just anecdotes, but I do wonder if her story has cut through.
Mr. kle4, crashed out more makes it sound like his fault. Even if you believe that of Silverstone, in Azerbaijan it was bad luck (no warning tyre failure) and in Hungary it was a result of Bottas.
Mr. Jessop, that's a very fair point. He should've left it for the next part of the lap and would likely have passed.
Mr. Eagles, Hamilton hit him from behind, and got a penalty so severe it didn't stop him winning the race.
How you equate that to the FIA unfairly helping Verstappen is a challenge to the notions of reason and logic almost the equal of your unique perspective on the relative merits of Hannibal and Caesar in the field of generalship.
Didn't even look a foul to me. Incredibly harsh red card
Annoying that we didn't get a replay. Presumably it was subject to VAR...
It was.
When they didn't show the replay it confirmed it was a serious injury.
Obv a serious injury, but it didn't look a foul. Salah was right next to it, and didn't even appeal. It was only when he saw how badly hurt Elliott was that he stopped and ran to him
I went by Klopp's reaction, he flipped.
Yeah he was arguing with the crowd I think? In real time I thought it was a good tackle and rewound it a few times to check, and still think it was. GNev said it wasn't a red, but when someone gets hurt like that the refs get kind of kidded into thinking they have to do something. Here's hoping Harvey Elliott recovers well
Didn't even look a foul to me. Incredibly harsh red card
Annoying that we didn't get a replay. Presumably it was subject to VAR...
It was.
When they didn't show the replay it confirmed it was a serious injury.
Obv a serious injury, but it didn't look a foul. Salah was right next to it, and didn't even appeal. It was only when he saw how badly hurt Elliott was that he stopped and ran to him
If it causes a serious injury even a less severe foul can still be a red.
I think it would result in better politics if certain things were more openly presented. Here are two suggestions:
1. All salaries (inc. adverts and payslips) expressed as both cash and total benefit with the pension contribution value set using a standard formula prescribed by independent body and varying as required to give accurate representation. The real cost and benefit of defined benefit pensions would be stated NOT the contributions. Employer's NI also shown clearly.
2. Hypothicate NHS, pension and social security parts of personal taxation. NHS totally funded from the personal tax elements apart from relevant sin taxes so that payslip show £XX to NHS as part of ZZ% funding from personal taxes.
The main thing is to make things more apparent and to educate the electorate in the realities of life.
Yes, I'd favour that too. I think people would actually be willing to pay more if they could see it clearly instead of going into an anonymous pot.
Transparency about what everyone pays, like in Norway (where you can look up anyone's tax return on a website), would be good too. True, Amazon don't care what we think about paying tuppence tax on £X billion, but individuals living swanky lifestyles while paying almost nothing would perhaps become a bit more restrained in making cunning arrangements.
I would *love* to see everyone's income details made public like in Norway. If only for the orgy of bitching and moaning it would invoke as the British middle class all found out what each other earned.
Maybe there is a panic about the loss of the Tory poll lead and BoJo's rating collapse
What did they expect ? Surely they have advisers who would have been able to foresee this.
I honestly don't think they did see it, the Tory party just seems to have forgotten how difficult it is to be a young worker on £18-40k all over the country. They've become the party of the comfortable and wealthy (people like me, ostensibly) who have no social conscience (so really only people like HYFUD). No one at the top table has any insight into the life of a 20 or 30 something living in a shared house paying shit loads in rent from income that is taxed far too much and is therefore unable to get on the property ladder.
In terms of the key people, Rishi doesn't understand black of money and Boris doesn't understand money at all.
What they do understand is electoral dynamics, and a coalition centred on the old and comfortable that reaches out into the old and precarious (by culture war) and the younger and comfortable (don't worry, you'll still get your inheritance) is pretty damn formidable.
It's much less formidable than they think, without working people aged between 30 and 50 a majority is out of reach and people in this age category aren't inheriting anything for another 10-30 years at least.
At least 3 members I know personally who campaigned for Leave in 2016 and Boris in 2019 have cancelled their membership and won't vote for the Tories until Boris is gone and the scope of this tax is widened to include retired people and unearned income. That's people who paid to campaign for the Tories for many years abandoning the party. Voters will be even less forgiving.
except as living costs rise they risk losing the old and precarious and many of their working voter supporters
So it was the trailing leg that did the damage. He has only been sent off because of the injury, but then I think that kind of tackle can do that. It would be good if every tackle like that was given a red.
Didn't even look a foul to me. Incredibly harsh red card
Annoying that we didn't get a replay. Presumably it was subject to VAR...
It was.
When they didn't show the replay it confirmed it was a serious injury.
Obv a serious injury, but it didn't look a foul. Salah was right next to it, and didn't even appeal. It was only when he saw how badly hurt Elliott was that he stopped and ran to him
If it causes a serious injury even a less severe foul can still be a red.
Eh?! I can t have that one bit
A terrible challenge that doesnt even connect is a red (Xhaka at City last gameweek), the severity of the injury should have no affect on the referees decision - it is the action that is punished, not the effect - I was sent off last season for "raising my hands" when all I did was touch the bloke on the side of the face with my fingers when he was yelling at me!
Didn't even look a foul to me. Incredibly harsh red card
Annoying that we didn't get a replay. Presumably it was subject to VAR...
It was.
When they didn't show the replay it confirmed it was a serious injury.
Obv a serious injury, but it didn't look a foul. Salah was right next to it, and didn't even appeal. It was only when he saw how badly hurt Elliott was that he stopped and ran to him
I went by Klopp's reaction, he flipped.
Yeah he was arguing with the crowd I think? In real time I thought it was a good tackle and rewound it a few times to check, and still think it was. GNev said it wasn't a red, but when someone gets hurt like that the refs get kind of kidded into thinking they have to do something. Here's hoping Harvey Elliott recovers well
Happened with Son when he broke the leg of Andre Gomes, that got overturned a few days later.
Klopp's my litmus test for the severity of an injury.
Same happened when an Everton got a red card for a foul on Divock Origi in 2016 that kept Origi out for months.
So it was the trailing leg that did the damage. He has only been sent off because of the injury, but then I think that kind of tackle can do that. It would be good if every tackle like that was given a red.
Not for me, Clive, and I have been calling for reds for studs showing type tackles for about 30 years - I got booked once for asking the ref to send of some thug who went in on me two footed in about 1998!
Didn't even look a foul to me. Incredibly harsh red card
Annoying that we didn't get a replay. Presumably it was subject to VAR...
It was.
When they didn't show the replay it confirmed it was a serious injury.
Obv a serious injury, but it didn't look a foul. Salah was right next to it, and didn't even appeal. It was only when he saw how badly hurt Elliott was that he stopped and ran to him
I went by Klopp's reaction, he flipped.
Yeah he was arguing with the crowd I think? In real time I thought it was a good tackle and rewound it a few times to check, and still think it was. GNev said it wasn't a red, but when someone gets hurt like that the refs get kind of kidded into thinking they have to do something. Here's hoping Harvey Elliott recovers well
Happened with Son when he broke the leg of Andre Gomes, that got overturned a few days later.
Klopp's my litmus test for the severity of an injury.
Same happened when an Everton got a red card for a foul on Divock Origi in 2016 that kept Origi out for months.
So it was the trailing leg that did the damage. He has only been sent off because of the injury, but then I think that kind of tackle can do that. It would be good if every tackle like that was given a red.
Not for me, Clive, and I have been calling for reds for studs showing type tackles for about 30 years - I got booked once for asking the ref to send of some thug who went in on me two footed in about 1998!
The point I'm making is that that type tackle can cause that type of injury. Just because it doesn't look as bad as, say, what Xhaka did at City, doesn't mean we shouldn't ban it.
I wonder if Raducanu might suffer from people thinking "she'll have plenty of changes to win SPoTY in years to come, let's give it to Tom Daley this year"?
There will be some of that. People have grown up with Tom. They've been through so many ups and downs with him. They know him. Or at least they feel they do, which amounts to the same thing for these purposes.
Also, Adam Peaty. He's a stupid price now, but imo he's the wild card here. Why? Because he's going to be on Strictly Come Dancing. Anyone who doubts the impact that this iconic programme can have need only cast their minds back to Ed Balls and his samba salsa in whenever it was. Entered the show a widely despised politician, left the show as national treasure. Just a stunning turnaround. If same happens with Peaty - and the word is he can really move and is well up for it, knowing it's his chance to make a splash (sorry!) with the same general public who'll be voting for Spoty - then we have a genuine contest on our hands come December at the P&J Live Arena in Aberdeen.
So, bottom line, yes (Dame?) Emma is going to be Spoty but I will not be piling on at 1.1. Those are crazy odds. I'll be laying that, and I'll be having a couple of quid on Peaty. Just watch his price plummet once he's done some dances.
Incredible that any political party could turn to the absolute vileness of Wings Over Scotland to write its prospectus for independence. It’s going to be an expletive ridden, hatred laden Scotland if Alba are going to design it…
Incredible that any political party could turn to the absolute vileness of Wings Over Scotland to write its prospectus for independence. It’s going to be an expletive ridden, hatred laden Scotland if Alba are going to design it…
I wonder if Raducanu might suffer from people thinking "she'll have plenty of changes to win SPoTY in years to come, let's give it to Tom Daley this year"?
Indeed. I’m still not convinced she’s the dead cert she’s being hyped up to be.
(Or maybe, not being in the UK at the moment, I’m missing 65m people go mad for her).
I wonder if Raducanu might suffer from people thinking "she'll have plenty of changes to win SPoTY in years to come, let's give it to Tom Daley this year"?
Indeed. I’m still not convinced she’s the dead cert she’s being hyped up to be.
(Or maybe, not being in the UK at the moment, I’m missing 65m people go mad for her).
Had she won Wimbledon (or maybe gold at the Olympics in addition to the US Open), then the hype would be in overdrive. The run at Wimbledon certainly helps her, but I reckon the "finally done it" story tends to play quite well.
What I do think helps Raducanu is first past the post. I think she has a solid base that she can count on.
F1. Can we go back to discussing the colour of Emma's kit?
Sold out in the UK apart from the white version that Emma didn't wear.
I hope Leon got his order in early.
I meant for his daughter, naturally.
Maybe I am just reading too much into it, but were her white trainers, worn as they were with her red and blue dress, a nod to her belief in the Union?
It was a good Olympics and very good para Olympics for the UK but I can't help feeling that the breadth of our success and medals made it much more difficult for individuals to stand out in the way than an Olympic gold medallist would have in the past.
To me this looks as nailed on as anything can be. We have a new superstar in our midst. Young, very smart, articulate, pretty and a winner. What's not to like?
She's British, and supports England in the footie?
Incredible that any political party could turn to the absolute vileness of Wings Over Scotland to write its prospectus for independence. It’s going to be an expletive ridden, hatred laden Scotland if Alba are going to design it…
Former First Minister Salmond told The National the first Wee Blue Book had a “profound impact” on the referendum campaign.
“I only became aware of as I was doing interviews,” he said.
“People started waving the Wee Blue Book at me, at meetings and in the streets … and that’s where I learned about it. It was going off the shelves like hot cakes in 2014.
“It had a big effect in the latter stages of the referendum campaign.”
It was a good Olympics and very good para Olympics for the UK but I can't help feeling that the breadth of our success and medals made it much more difficult for individuals to stand out in the way than an Olympic gold medallist would have in the past.
To me this looks as nailed on as anything can be. We have a new superstar in our midst. Young, very smart, articulate, pretty and a winner. What's not to like?
She's British, and supports England in the footie?
Why does it give people a buzz when someone they've never met wins a tournament in a sport in a foreign country, and their only link with the winner is the country they all live in?
Patriotism is a very odd thing. But it is real. The buzz is real
I wonder if Raducanu might suffer from people thinking "she'll have plenty of changes to win SPoTY in years to come, let's give it to Tom Daley this year"?
Indeed. I’m still not convinced she’s the dead cert she’s being hyped up to be.
(Or maybe, not being in the UK at the moment, I’m missing 65m people go mad for her).
More viewers ON CHANNEL 4 ALONE than the FA Cup Final, 9.2m vs 9.1m
I wonder if Raducanu might suffer from people thinking "she'll have plenty of changes to win SPoTY in years to come, let's give it to Tom Daley this year"?
Indeed. I’m still not convinced she’s the dead cert she’s being hyped up to be.
(Or maybe, not being in the UK at the moment, I’m missing 65m people go mad for her).
More viewers ON CHANNEL 4 ALONE than the FA Cup Final, 9.2m vs 9.1m
Why does it give people a buzz when someone they've never met wins a tournament in a sport in a foreign country, and their only link with the winner is the country they all live in?
Patriotism is a very odd thing. But it is real. The buzz is real
i just hope in a few years our wonderful media dont go to town on her and try to destroy her. Remember her whole life is now public property....
It was a good Olympics and very good para Olympics for the UK but I can't help feeling that the breadth of our success and medals made it much more difficult for individuals to stand out in the way than an Olympic gold medallist would have in the past.
To me this looks as nailed on as anything can be. We have a new superstar in our midst. Young, very smart, articulate, pretty and a winner. What's not to like?
She's British, and supports England in the footie?
Nats will be averse. They already are, online
Is it bad, to be wanting to see a Scots Nat campaign to vote for someone else from the shortlist on the night - perhaps the Paralympian, whoever is nominated?
The total number of votes rarely exceeds a million, so it’s actually not too difficult to game with an online campaign (as the Man U fans did in 2009).
Why does it give people a buzz when someone they've never met wins a tournament in a sport in a foreign country, and their only link with the winner is the country they all live in?
Patriotism is a very odd thing. But it is real. The buzz is real
It is odd isn't it? I remember thinking during the 2010 Football World Cup, why am I bothered whether these players I don't normally like much win or lose just because it's England? To be honest I don't really get that bothered now, I just enjoy the sport - 1990 Semi final, the Koeman challenge in 93 and Euro 96 killed me, but since then it hasn't hurt as much at all. Maybe working in betting is a kind of anesthetic to it, as it often costs dough when England win
I guess it's a sense of togetherness - everyone you know and love rooting for the same result, that you are describing, rather than patriotism.
F1. Can we go back to discussing the colour of Emma's kit?
Sold out in the UK apart from the white version that Emma didn't wear.
I hope Leon got his order in early.
I meant for his daughter, naturally.
Maybe I am just reading too much into it, but were her white trainers, worn as they were with her red and blue dress, a nod to her belief in the Union?
And her white teeth. I sensed that was a hint of allegiance to the white of the cross of St George?
Maybe there is a panic about the loss of the Tory poll lead and BoJo's rating collapse
What did they expect ? Surely they have advisers who would have been able to foresee this.
I honestly don't think they did see it, the Tory party just seems to have forgotten how difficult it is to be a young worker on £18-40k all over the country. They've become the party of the comfortable and wealthy (people like me, ostensibly) who have no social conscience (so really only people like HYFUD). No one at the top table has any insight into the life of a 20 or 30 something living in a shared house paying shit loads in rent from income that is taxed far too much and is therefore unable to get on the property ladder.
In terms of the key people, Rishi doesn't understand black of money and Boris doesn't understand money at all.
What they do understand is electoral dynamics, and a coalition centred on the old and comfortable that reaches out into the old and precarious (by culture war) and the younger and comfortable (don't worry, you'll still get your inheritance) is pretty damn formidable.
It's much less formidable than they think, without working people aged between 30 and 50 a majority is out of reach and people in this age category aren't inheriting anything for another 10-30 years at least.
At least 3 members I know personally who campaigned for Leave in 2016 and Boris in 2019 have cancelled their membership and won't vote for the Tories until Boris is gone and the scope of this tax is widened to include retired people and unearned income. That's people who paid to campaign for the Tories for many years abandoning the party. Voters will be even less forgiving.
Retired people who are giving up a 5.5% rise in pensions? So a contribution of about £393 so equivalent to the 1.25% on someone earning just over £31k
Seems pretty fair to me
That's not in any way equivalent, working people are going to see their net income go down while older retired people will see them go up. The same old people who are now being handed billions so they can pass on their assets to their children without paying for the cost of their own care. The government has transferring wealth from young to old, it's supposed to go the other way with wealthy old people taxed so they stop accumulating assets and wealth they won't spend and will pass on to their already wealthy middle aged children.
I wonder if Raducanu might suffer from people thinking "she'll have plenty of changes to win SPoTY in years to come, let's give it to Tom Daley this year"?
Indeed. I’m still not convinced she’s the dead cert she’s being hyped up to be.
(Or maybe, not being in the UK at the moment, I’m missing 65m people go mad for her).
More viewers ON CHANNEL 4 ALONE than the FA Cup Final, 9.2m vs 9.1m
Why does it give people a buzz when someone they've never met wins a tournament in a sport in a foreign country, and their only link with the winner is the country they all live in?
Patriotism is a very odd thing. But it is real. The buzz is real
i just hope in a few years our wonderful media dont go to town on her and try to destroy her. Remember her whole life is now public property....
Hopefully being a genuinely global star will insulate her from our tall poppy syndrome.
Why does it give people a buzz when someone they've never met wins a tournament in a sport in a foreign country, and their only link with the winner is the country they all live in?
Patriotism is a very odd thing. But it is real. The buzz is real
It is odd isn't it? I remember thinking during the 2010 Football World Cup, why am I bothered whether these players I don't normally like much win or lose just because it's England? To be honest I don't really get that bothered now, I just enjoy the sport - 1990 Semi final, the Koeman challenge in 93 and Euro 96 killed me, but since then it hasn't hurt as much at all. Maybe working in betting is a kind of anesthetic to it, as it often costs dough when England win
I guess it's a sense of togetherness - everyone you know and love rooting for the same result, that you are describing, rather than patriotism.
I foolishly allowed myself to care about England AGAIN this summer. And to be fair beating Germany was a laugh
But, yet again, the cruel disappointment
England rugby give me more joy, because occasionally they play overwhelmingly brilliant rugby, and they crush someone like the All Blacks, and yay, it makes up for the defeats
England at football have never been *superb* enough to make up for the losses
However I do still care about them all, in some way, even TeamGB in, say, curling or dressage, and the caring is peculiar
Who gets nominated for SPoTY will be fascinating. I suspect Raducanu's victory means the shortlist might be quite a bit shorter than it was going to be. I reckon we could be looking at something like:
Emma Raducanu Tom Daley Adam Peaty Max Whitlock Sarah Storey Lewis Hamilton (if he has a chance of the title at the time of the nominations)
The ones that I'm really struggling with are the Kennys and Joe Root. Really they ought to be nominated, but I don't think they will.
In fact, I wonder if Tom Daley might not get nominated. Not impossible.
F1. Can we go back to discussing the colour of Emma's kit?
Sold out in the UK apart from the white version that Emma didn't wear.
I hope Leon got his order in early.
I meant for his daughter, naturally.
Maybe I am just reading too much into it, but were her white trainers, worn as they were with her red and blue dress, a nod to her belief in the Union?
And her white teeth. I sensed that was a hint of allegiance to the white of the cross of St George?
Possible.
Just dawned on me that her Red, Yellow and Blue outfit was obviously a signal that she considers the the three main political parties in England as equally legitimate
Boris blundering around trying to find someone to blame over the Tory poll lead collapse. Anyone but himself, of course.
It turns out jacking up taxes and squeezing wages may not be a smart idea. Funny that.
Just been shopping and the price of petrol has now hit the highest I've ever seen. Just as lots of families are famously losing £20 per week. Now is the moment that Boris thought it a great idea to take more money out of our wages.
He doesn't deserve our vote and neither do the Tories, until they realise that wages are for people to keep to spend on what they need and not simply due to the Treasury to pay for those who aren't working.
Out of interest how much is it ?
It’s 130p a litre at the local Sainsbury’s here.
about 133p in West Wales for Derv
DERV
That’s a term that takes me back !
I used to serve fuel in the 70s when I was in the 6th form (weekend job). Derv was the garage nickname for Diesel. I think it was an acronym for Diesel engined road vehicle, but I could be wrong. I used to earn 75p an hour. 4 Star cost 73p a gallon, 3 star 72.5p and 2 star 72p. Derv cost 75p a gallon.
Anyway, I'm off. Pleased the race was more interesting than anticipated while, at the same time, my prediction based on passing being tricky helped pave the way to profitability.
F1. Can we go back to discussing the colour of Emma's kit?
Sold out in the UK apart from the white version that Emma didn't wear.
I hope Leon got his order in early.
I meant for his daughter, naturally.
Maybe I am just reading too much into it, but were her white trainers, worn as they were with her red and blue dress, a nod to her belief in the Union?
And her white teeth. I sensed that was a hint of allegiance to the white of the cross of St George?
Possible.
Just dawned on me that her Red, Yellow and Blue outfit was obviously a signal that she considers the the three main political parties in England as equally legitimate
Yes. Clever. And she also had almost purple wristbands, showing that she feels UKIP still have a place in our politics, which is insightful
F1. Can we go back to discussing the colour of Emma's kit?
Sold out in the UK apart from the white version that Emma didn't wear.
I hope Leon got his order in early.
I meant for his daughter, naturally.
Maybe I am just reading too much into it, but were her white trainers, worn as they were with her red and blue dress, a nod to her belief in the Union?
And her white teeth. I sensed that was a hint of allegiance to the white of the cross of St George?
Burgundy wristbands, mind. Asserting the validity of the Treaty of Troyes, or giving it the finger?
F1. Can we go back to discussing the colour of Emma's kit?
Sold out in the UK apart from the white version that Emma didn't wear.
I hope Leon got his order in early.
I meant for his daughter, naturally.
Maybe I am just reading too much into it, but were her white trainers, worn as they were with her red and blue dress, a nod to her belief in the Union?
And her white teeth. I sensed that was a hint of allegiance to the white of the cross of St George?
Possible.
Just dawned on me that her Red, Yellow and Blue outfit was obviously a signal that she considers the the three main political parties in England as equally legitimate
When I worked at the ONS on the 2011 Census, we were told that they avoided red, yellow or blue for the colour scheme so as to appear politically neutral. What did they go with? Ukip purple.
Maybe there is a panic about the loss of the Tory poll lead and BoJo's rating collapse
What did they expect ? Surely they have advisers who would have been able to foresee this.
I honestly don't think they did see it, the Tory party just seems to have forgotten how difficult it is to be a young worker on £18-40k all over the country. They've become the party of the comfortable and wealthy (people like me, ostensibly) who have no social conscience (so really only people like HYFUD). No one at the top table has any insight into the life of a 20 or 30 something living in a shared house paying shit loads in rent from income that is taxed far too much and is therefore unable to get on the property ladder.
In terms of the key people, Rishi doesn't understand black of money and Boris doesn't understand money at all.
What they do understand is electoral dynamics, and a coalition centred on the old and comfortable that reaches out into the old and precarious (by culture war) and the younger and comfortable (don't worry, you'll still get your inheritance) is pretty damn formidable.
It's much less formidable than they think, without working people aged between 30 and 50 a majority is out of reach and people in this age category aren't inheriting anything for another 10-30 years at least.
At least 3 members I know personally who campaigned for Leave in 2016 and Boris in 2019 have cancelled their membership and won't vote for the Tories until Boris is gone and the scope of this tax is widened to include retired people and unearned income. That's people who paid to campaign for the Tories for many years abandoning the party. Voters will be even less forgiving.
Retired people who are giving up a 5.5% rise in pensions? So a contribution of about £393 so equivalent to the 1.25% on someone earning just over £31k
Seems pretty fair to me
Err the incomes on pensioners are still going up whilst the workers pay more.
Maybe there is a panic about the loss of the Tory poll lead and BoJo's rating collapse
What did they expect ? Surely they have advisers who would have been able to foresee this.
I honestly don't think they did see it, the Tory party just seems to have forgotten how difficult it is to be a young worker on £18-40k all over the country. They've become the party of the comfortable and wealthy (people like me, ostensibly) who have no social conscience (so really only people like HYFUD). No one at the top table has any insight into the life of a 20 or 30 something living in a shared house paying shit loads in rent from income that is taxed far too much and is therefore unable to get on the property ladder.
In terms of the key people, Rishi doesn't understand black of money and Boris doesn't understand money at all.
What they do understand is electoral dynamics, and a coalition centred on the old and comfortable that reaches out into the old and precarious (by culture war) and the younger and comfortable (don't worry, you'll still get your inheritance) is pretty damn formidable.
It's much less formidable than they think, without working people aged between 30 and 50 a majority is out of reach and people in this age category aren't inheriting anything for another 10-30 years at least.
At least 3 members I know personally who campaigned for Leave in 2016 and Boris in 2019 have cancelled their membership and won't vote for the Tories until Boris is gone and the scope of this tax is widened to include retired people and unearned income. That's people who paid to campaign for the Tories for many years abandoning the party. Voters will be even less forgiving.
Retired people who are giving up a 5.5% rise in pensions? So a contribution of about £393 so equivalent to the 1.25% on someone earning just over £31k
Seems pretty fair to me
Only the very poorest are giving up a 5.5% rise in pensions..
A 5.5% rise in the state pension would be more precise
Boris blundering around trying to find someone to blame over the Tory poll lead collapse. Anyone but himself, of course.
It turns out jacking up taxes and squeezing wages may not be a smart idea. Funny that.
Just been shopping and the price of petrol has now hit the highest I've ever seen. Just as lots of families are famously losing £20 per week. Now is the moment that Boris thought it a great idea to take more money out of our wages.
He doesn't deserve our vote and neither do the Tories, until they realise that wages are for people to keep to spend on what they need and not simply due to the Treasury to pay for those who aren't working.
Out of interest how much is it ?
It’s 130p a litre at the local Sainsbury’s here.
about 133p in West Wales for Derv
DERV
That’s a term that takes me back !
I used to serve fuel in the 70s when I was in the 6th form (weekend job). Derv was the garage nickname for Diesel. I think it was an acronym for Diesel engined road vehicle, but I could be wrong. I used to earn 75p an hour. 4 Star cost 73p a gallon, 3 star 72.5p and 2 star 72p. Derv cost 75p a gallon.
Who gets nominated for SPoTY will be fascinating. I suspect Raducanu's victory means the shortlist might be quite a bit shorter than it was going to be. I reckon we could be looking at something like:
Emma Raducanu Tom Daley Adam Peaty Max Whitlock Sarah Storey Lewis Hamilton (if he has a chance of the title at the time of the nominations)
The ones that I'm really struggling with are the Kennys and Joe Root. Really they ought to be nominated, but I don't think they will.
In fact, I wonder if Tom Daley might not get nominated. Not impossible.
The only way Root is nominated is if the Ashes are brought forward and England win them before nominations close.
Comments
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-document/2021 Italian Grand Prix - Offence - Car 33 - Causing a collision.pdf
Dirty Leeds have injured Harvey Elliott.
Klopp has lost his shit.
“Car 44 was exiting the pits. Car 33 was on the main straight. At the 50m board before Turn 1, Car 44 was significantly ahead of Car 33. Car 33 braked late and started to move alongside Car 44, although at no point in the sequence does Car 33 get any further forward than just behind the front wheel of Car 44.
“During the hearing the driver of Car 33 asserted that the cause of the incident was the driver of Car 44 opening the steering after Turn 1 and “squeezing” him to the apex of turn 2. The driver of Car 44 asserted that the driver of Car 33 attempted to pass very late and should have given up the corner either by backing off sooner, or by turning left behind the kerb.
“The Stewards observed on CCTV footage that the driver of Car 44 was driving an avoiding line, although his position caused Car 33 to go onto the kerb. But further, the Stewards observed that Car 33 was not at all alongside Car 44 until significantly into the entry into Turn 1. In the opinion of the Stewards, this manoeuvre was attempted too late for the driver of Car 33 to have “the right to racing room”. While Car 44 could have steered further from the kerb to avoid the incident, the Stewards determined that his position was reasonable and therefore find that the driver of Car 33 was predominantly to blame for the incident.
“In coming to the penalty the Stewards emphasise that they have only considered the incident itself and not the consequences thereof.”
You should attend to the theories of Kurt Gödel. There is no such thing as proof in the abstract, there is only proof within the rules of a given system.
Somewhat surprised there was a penalty for that. Again, I'd go back to Silverstone. Hamilton was about as far back as Verstappen here, the difference being he had room and still made contact.
I'd be interested to see footage of other incidents there to compare lines and the like, had I the time. Stewards have decided the penalty so they'll have to get on with it.
Three places for this one does seem a little lenient.
Otherwise he is going to end up killing someone else or himself.
What the hell happened there to Elliot? Sounds horrific that they won't even show a replay of it.
Hope he's able to recover and it's not career threatening. It sounds really bad.
Quite. As bad as the allegations against Andrew are, I cannot quite believe people are seriously using a 'why doesn't he just clear his name by facing it' approach (this is a summary not a quote of what people have said). I find it hard to accept that that is an approach they would advocate for most people in dealing with the police and courts.
I recall a similarly cavalier attitude to the burden of proof by investigators in Operation Midland implying the accused should prove their innocence.
When they didn't show the replay it confirmed it was a serious injury.
Also, the stewards are not meant to consider the outcome of an incident, only the incident itself.
Mr. Sandpit, the Hungary incidents (wet, locked brakes, lap 1) were very difficult to try and assess because of those factors.
The stewards don't always get it right. I'm still annoyed about the 2012 (I think) penalty for Hulkenberg when he nudged Hamilton in soaking wet conditions in Brazil. I think it was 2007 when Hamilton got a stupid penalty in... Spa (perhaps) for not having sufficient red paint on his car.
Transparency about what everyone pays, like in Norway (where you can look up anyone's tax return on a website), would be good too. True, Amazon don't care what we think about paying tuppence tax on £X billion, but individuals living swanky lifestyles while paying almost nothing would perhaps become a bit more restrained in making cunning arrangements.
The FIA/Stewards have transferred from being Ferrari International Assistance to Red Bull Assistance.
I couldn't possibly comment further.
It’s a burner, mark my words.
Just anecdotes, but I do wonder if her story has cut through.
Mr. Jessop, that's a very fair point. He should've left it for the next part of the lap and would likely have passed.
Mr. Eagles, Hamilton hit him from behind, and got a penalty so severe it didn't stop him winning the race.
How you equate that to the FIA unfairly helping Verstappen is a challenge to the notions of reason and logic almost the equal of your unique perspective on the relative merits of Hannibal and Caesar in the field of generalship.
So it was the trailing leg that did the damage. He has only been sent off because of the injury, but then I think that kind of tackle can do that. It would be good if every tackle like that was given a red.
https://twitter.com/VitorVeg/status/1437097316389957638
I don't expect Hamilton to be so gentlemanly. Defensive driving can be rough. But that can backfire, as it did here.
I think the FIA, for all their Silverstone claims about the outcome not mattering, have done this because of the incident's result.
A terrible challenge that doesnt even connect is a red (Xhaka at City last gameweek), the severity of the injury should have no affect on the referees decision - it is the action that is punished, not the effect - I was sent off last season for "raising my hands" when all I did was touch the bloke on the side of the face with my fingers when he was yelling at me!
Klopp's my litmus test for the severity of an injury.
Same happened when an Everton got a red card for a foul on Divock Origi in 2016 that kept Origi out for months.
Tough act to follow, mind.
Also, Adam Peaty. He's a stupid price now, but imo he's the wild card here. Why? Because he's going to be on Strictly Come Dancing. Anyone who doubts the impact that this iconic programme can have need only cast their minds back to Ed Balls and his samba salsa in whenever it was. Entered the show a widely despised politician, left the show as national treasure. Just a stunning turnaround. If same happens with Peaty - and the word is he can really move and is well up for it, knowing it's his chance to make a splash (sorry!) with the same general public who'll be voting for Spoty - then we have a genuine contest on our hands come December at the P&J Live Arena in Aberdeen.
So, bottom line, yes (Dame?) Emma is going to be Spoty but I will not be piling on at 1.1. Those are crazy odds. I'll be laying that, and I'll be having a couple of quid on Peaty. Just watch his price plummet once he's done some dances.
Personal take only, of course, so dyor.
All because the VAR ref didn't know the rules.
Incredible that any political party could turn to the absolute vileness of Wings Over Scotland to write its prospectus for independence. It’s going to be an expletive ridden, hatred laden Scotland if Alba are going to design it…
https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/status/1437096346696224775?s=20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY446h4pZdc&t=48s
(Or maybe, not being in the UK at the moment, I’m missing 65m people go mad for her).
https://twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats/status/1437073525844717572?s=20
https://twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats/status/1437059432937050113?s=20
https://twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats/status/1437059180054163459?s=20
https://twitter.com/UKCovid19Stats/status/1437059686851923971?s=20
What I do think helps Raducanu is first past the post. I think she has a solid base that she can count on.
Nats will be averse. They already are, online
Wee Blue Book introduced accessible, high quality analysis to referendum campaign. Need now for more @WingsScotland
https://twitter.com/NaeFear/status/641198029903646720?s=20
And Salmond was too:
Former First Minister Salmond told The National the first Wee Blue Book had a “profound impact” on the referendum campaign.
“I only became aware of as I was doing interviews,” he said.
“People started waving the Wee Blue Book at me, at meetings and in the streets … and that’s where I learned about it. It was going off the shelves like hot cakes in 2014.
“It had a big effect in the latter stages of the referendum campaign.”
https://www.thenational.scot/news/17717350.wings-scotland-print-million-copies-wee-blue-two/
https://twitter.com/ESPNUK/status/1437038359575253003?s=20
Why does it give people a buzz when someone they've never met wins a tournament in a sport in a foreign country, and their only link with the winner is the country they all live in?
Patriotism is a very odd thing. But it is real. The buzz is real
https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/fa-cup-final-2021-bbc-tv-viewers-audience-leicester-chelsea/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9982425/More-NINE-MILLION-people-watched-Emma-Raducanus-Open-final-match-Channel-4.html
I can't see why Prime video figure here shouldn't be 50% of that, so that's half as many as watched the euro finals. For a women's tennis match.
Astonishing.
https://twitter.com/mgelizabethx/status/1436861308264058883
The total number of votes rarely exceeds a million, so it’s actually not too difficult to game with an online campaign (as the Man U fans did in 2009).
I guess it's a sense of togetherness - everyone you know and love rooting for the same result, that you are describing, rather than patriotism.
13.3m Murray winning Wimbledon 2016.
But, yet again, the cruel disappointment
England rugby give me more joy, because occasionally they play overwhelmingly brilliant rugby, and they crush someone like the All Blacks, and yay, it makes up for the defeats
England at football have never been *superb* enough to make up for the losses
However I do still care about them all, in some way, even TeamGB in, say, curling or dressage, and the caring is peculiar
Emma Raducanu
Tom Daley
Adam Peaty
Max Whitlock
Sarah Storey
Lewis Hamilton (if he has a chance of the title at the time of the nominations)
The ones that I'm really struggling with are the Kennys and Joe Root. Really they ought to be nominated, but I don't think they will.
In fact, I wonder if Tom Daley might not get nominated. Not impossible.
Just dawned on me that her Red, Yellow and Blue outfit was obviously a signal that she considers the the three main political parties in England as equally legitimate
These are deep waters.
Neither eventuality seems likely to happen.
"Emma Raducanu set to earn £150m as she shelves plan to study law at university"
https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1437091335979380740?s=20