This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
Why am I not surprised that the news that the fallacy of the undistributed middle, is a fallacy, has yet to reach the "universities" of East Anglia?
In 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians.
Were Romanians 92% of all poor young men in London, or more, or fewer?
Edit: and Farage's point was this: if we have the legitimate choice of changing the rules so that they and their peers stay and raid cash machines in Poland Czechia and Romania, rather than London, why would we not exercise that choice?
Seems a solid argument.
I work in statistics. When someone tells me that 'in 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians' I think it sounds like exactly what it is - a number plucked out of the air by an innumerate PC plod.
Well, you don't work very hard or effectively in them. How the fuck can you assess the validity of a proposition that 92% of x are y by what it fucking "sounds like"? Moron.
Loving the entry-level snobbery about policemen, though. Which other occupations of the lower orders do you look down on?
Maybe there is a panic about the loss of the Tory poll lead and BoJo's rating collapse
What did they expect ? Surely they have advisers who would have been able to foresee this.
I honestly don't think they did see it, the Tory party just seems to have forgotten how difficult it is to be a young worker on £18-40k all over the country. They've become the party of the comfortable and wealthy (people like me, ostensibly) who have no social conscience (so really only people like HYFUD). No one at the top table has any insight into the life of a 20 or 30 something living in a shared house paying shit loads in rent from income that is taxed far too much and is therefore unable to get on the property ladder.
Yet the Tories lost under 45 year olds even in 2019. Some of that age group will also benefit from a gift from their parents or inheritance from their grandparents to help with a deposit.
Post Brexit it is over 45 year olds who won the Tories most seats in 2017 and 2019 as younger Remainers have gone to Labour or the LDs. While Cameron won workers over 35 in 2010 and when he won a majority in 2015, May and Boris only won most seats in 2017 and a majority in 2019 due to those 45 and over year olds ie mainly non workers and particularly pensioners who they won by far more than Cameron did after the collapse of UKIP and gains from Labour Leavers.
Indeed according to the latest Yougov there has been a bigger shift from the Tories amongst over 65s due to the freeze in the triple lock than amongst 25 to 49 year olds over the NI rise.
For the record I lived in a shared house in the West Midlands and Welsh border for most of my early 30s on an average salary.
You understand how marginal losses work though. Losing 38-35 is an election winning score for the Tories and implies a winning the top of the category (which you did). Losing 50-25 is Labour 300+ seats.
You can bang on about how a plurality of Tory voters support raising taxes on workers as much as you like, it's Boris' poll tax and it's going to lose you the election.
It isn't, if the Tories had not lost any votes from over 65s over the triple lock freeze, they would still have a clear enough lead for a narrow 1992 style majority even despite any losses from under 45s over the NI rise.
At the moment it is the triple lock freeze which will cost Boris his majority, not the NI rise. The big move has not been to Labour and the LDs but to RefUK and DK amongst the over 65s.
I warned about the dangers of not delivering the commitment to increase the triple lock on our core vote beforehand.
The NI rise is regrettable but necessary to fund extra funds for the NHS post Covid and social care and hopefully taxes in income can then be cut before the next general election
Surely as the triple lock removal is only temporary this is not a long term worry for the Conservatives for 3023/24.
What the Conservatives do need to worry about are younger people as in 1997, who are so enraged at having been royally shafted by the Conservatives that they get off their lazy arses and vote for somebody other than Boris, whereas under normal circumstances they wouldn't bother voting at all. That should be a concern to you.
Well it better be only temporary, if not the Conservatives will have very little chance of winning the next election.
In 1997 Blair even won over 65s so big was Labour's landslide but turnout was actually down on 1992. In 2019 even Corbyn won under 45s, so no it is pensioners and over 45s who post Brexit are the Tory core vote and they have to win again to be re elected. They won't win most under 45s anyway
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
That's mean.
Depends what mode you're in.
Edit: I was once in a document review meeting where there was an argument about whether it should be 'what mode' or 'which mode'. It got rather heated ...
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite - it's been a huge love-in.
There have been arguments over whether she is British and political point scoring over Brexit and immigration
Has anybody disputed she's British? Anyway, PB has gone its normal way of talking about Brexit, immigration and so on, but my point was that everybody seems to adore Emma personally.
(Easier to call her Emma than risk misspelling her name).
Maybe there is a panic about the loss of the Tory poll lead and BoJo's rating collapse
What did they expect ? Surely they have advisers who would have been able to foresee this.
I honestly don't think they did see it, the Tory party just seems to have forgotten how difficult it is to be a young worker on £18-40k all over the country. They've become the party of the comfortable and wealthy (people like me, ostensibly) who have no social conscience (so really only people like HYFUD). No one at the top table has any insight into the life of a 20 or 30 something living in a shared house paying shit loads in rent from income that is taxed far too much and is therefore unable to get on the property ladder.
Yet the Tories lost under 45 year olds even in 2019. Some of that age group will also benefit from a gift from their parents or inheritance from their grandparents to help with a deposit.
Post Brexit it is over 45 year olds who won the Tories most seats in 2017 and 2019 as younger Remainers have gone to Labour or the LDs. While Cameron won workers over 35 in 2010 and when he won a majority in 2015, May and Boris only won most seats in 2017 and a majority in 2019 due to those 45 and over year olds ie mainly non workers and particularly pensioners who they won by far more than Cameron did after the collapse of UKIP and gains from Labour Leavers.
Indeed according to the latest Yougov there has been a bigger shift from the Tories amongst over 65s due to the freeze in the triple lock than amongst 25 to 49 year olds over the NI rise.
For the record I lived in a shared house in the West Midlands and Welsh border for most of my early 30s on an average salary.
You understand how marginal losses work though. Losing 38-35 is an election winning score for the Tories and implies a winning the top of the category (which you did). Losing 50-25 is Labour 300+ seats.
You can bang on about how a plurality of Tory voters support raising taxes on workers as much as you like, it's Boris' poll tax and it's going to lose you the election.
It isn't, if the Tories had not lost any votes from over 65s over the triple lock freeze, they would still have a clear enough lead for a narrow 1992 style majority even despite any losses from under 45s over the NI rise.
At the moment it is the triple lock freeze which will cost Boris his majority, not the NI rise. The big move has not been to Labour and the LDs but to RefUK and DK amongst the over 65s.
I warned about the dangers of not delivering the commitment to increase the triple lock on our core vote beforehand.
The NI rise is regrettable but necessary to fund extra funds for the NHS post Covid and social care and hopefully taxes in income can then be cut before the next general election
Surely as the triple lock removal is only temporary this is not a long term worry for the Conservatives for 3023/24.
What the Conservatives do need to worry about are younger people as in 1997, who are so enraged at having been royally shafted by the Conservatives that they get off their lazy arses and vote for somebody other than Boris, whereas under normal circumstances they wouldn't bother voting at all. That should be a concern to you.
My concern surrounds the young, students and low pay workers and the loss of the £20 UC uplift which is immoral
Maybe it is highlighted even more as my granddaughter went into her student accommodation in Leeds yesterday for her 5 year Japanese and Italian course and the tax rate for students in their early years is unacceptable
No matter it has to be about fairness, I am not a member of the conservative party, and therefore homeless so it is up to the other parties to make an offer that attracts me to vote for them
Remember, I have done it twice for Blair, as @HYUFD reminds everyone and according to him I am not a pure conservative
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
I think IQ is a standardised scale where by definition the median = 100. So actually it can't drop, except in local pockets relative to the whole population.
But anyway, my reference was to the director's cut of PB's fave movie. Check it out.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite - it's been a huge love-in.
There have been arguments over whether she is British and political point scoring over Brexit and immigration
Has anybody disputed she's British? Anyway, PB has gone its normal way of talking about Brexit, immigration and so on, but my point was that everybody seems to adore Emma personally.
(Easier to call her Emma than risk misspelling her name).
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
Why am I not surprised that the news that the fallacy of the undistributed middle, is a fallacy, has yet to reach the "universities" of East Anglia?
In 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians.
Were Romanians 92% of all poor young men in London, or more, or fewer?
Edit: and Farage's point was this: if we have the legitimate choice of changing the rules so that they and their peers stay and raid cash machines in Poland Czechia and Romania, rather than London, why would we not exercise that choice?
Seems a solid argument.
I work in statistics. When someone tells me that 'in 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians' I think it sounds like exactly what it is - a number plucked out of the air by an innumerate PC plod.
Well, you don't work very hard or effectively in them. How the fuck can you assess the validity of a proposition that 92% of x are y by what it fucking "sounds like"? Moron.
Loving the entry-level snobbery about policemen, though. Which other occupations of the lower orders do you look down on?
Miners. Divers. Those people in yellow hard hats doing stuff with plastic pipes in the roadworks. I look down on them all.
Maybe there is a panic about the loss of the Tory poll lead and BoJo's rating collapse
What did they expect ? Surely they have advisers who would have been able to foresee this.
I honestly don't think they did see it, the Tory party just seems to have forgotten how difficult it is to be a young worker on £18-40k all over the country. They've become the party of the comfortable and wealthy (people like me, ostensibly) who have no social conscience (so really only people like HYFUD). No one at the top table has any insight into the life of a 20 or 30 something living in a shared house paying shit loads in rent from income that is taxed far too much and is therefore unable to get on the property ladder.
Yet the Tories lost under 45 year olds even in 2019. Some of that age group will also benefit from a gift from their parents or inheritance from their grandparents to help with a deposit.
Post Brexit it is over 45 year olds who won the Tories most seats in 2017 and 2019 as younger Remainers have gone to Labour or the LDs. While Cameron won workers over 35 in 2010 and when he won a majority in 2015, May and Boris only won most seats in 2017 and a majority in 2019 due to those 45 and over year olds ie mainly non workers and particularly pensioners who they won by far more than Cameron did after the collapse of UKIP and gains from Labour Leavers.
Indeed according to the latest Yougov there has been a bigger shift from the Tories amongst over 65s due to the freeze in the triple lock than amongst 25 to 49 year olds over the NI rise.
For the record I lived in a shared house in the West Midlands and Welsh border for most of my early 30s on an average salary.
You understand how marginal losses work though. Losing 38-35 is an election winning score for the Tories and implies a winning the top of the category (which you did). Losing 50-25 is Labour 300+ seats.
You can bang on about how a plurality of Tory voters support raising taxes on workers as much as you like, it's Boris' poll tax and it's going to lose you the election.
It isn't, if the Tories had not lost any votes from over 65s over the triple lock freeze, they would still have a clear enough lead for a narrow 1992 style majority even despite any losses from under 45s over the NI rise.
At the moment it is the triple lock freeze which will cost Boris his majority, not the NI rise. The big move has not been to Labour and the LDs but to RefUK and DK amongst the over 65s.
I warned about the dangers of not delivering the commitment to increase the triple lock on our core vote beforehand.
The NI rise is regrettable but necessary to fund extra funds for the NHS post Covid and social care and hopefully taxes in income can then be cut before the next general election
Surely as the triple lock removal is only temporary this is not a long term worry for the Conservatives for 3023/24.
What the Conservatives do need to worry about are younger people as in 1997, who are so enraged at having been royally shafted by the Conservatives that they get off their lazy arses and vote for somebody other than Boris, whereas under normal circumstances they wouldn't bother voting at all. That should be a concern to you.
My concern surrounds the young, students and low pay workers and the loss of the £20 UC uplift which is immoral
Maybe it is highlighted even more as my granddaughter went into her student accommodation in Leeds yesterday for her 5 year Japanese and Italian course and the tax rate for students in their early years is unacceptable
No matter it has to be about fairness, I am not a member of the conservative party, and therefore homeless so it is up to the other parties to make an offer that attracts me to vote for them
Remember, I have done it twice for Blair, as @HYUFD reminds everyone and according to him I am not a pure conservative
The only things Hyufd conserves are his errors, which he will fight in the last ditch to hang on to.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
I think IQ is a standardised scale where by definition the median = 100. So actually it can't drop, except in local pockets relative to the whole population.
But anyway, my reference was to the director's cut of PB's fave movie. Check it out.
Check it out! Hey Ripley, don't worry. Me and my squad of ultimate badasses will protect you! Check it out! Independently targeting particle beam phalanx. Vwap! Fry half a city with this puppy. We got tactical smart missiles, phased plasma pulse rifles, RPGs, we got sonic electronic ball breakers! We got nukes, we got knives, sharp sticks...
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
I think IQ is a standardised scale where by definition the median = 100. So actually it can't drop, except in local pockets relative to the whole population.
But anyway, my reference was to the director's cut of PB's fave movie. Check it out.
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
It's probably much more likely that a Romanian ATM fraud gang came to the UK under free movement with the intention of committing crimes. The stat is 92% of crimes, not that 92% of Romanians are criminals. That sounds like a few gangs saw an easy target in the UK and were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents.
"were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents."
Can you think of any way of remedying that situation?
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
Mmm so you think young poorly educated chinese immigrants would be more likely to commit crimes??
Personally: I'd say it depends on their parents. But that might be controversial. And wrong.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite - it's been a huge love-in.
There have been arguments over whether she is British and political point scoring over Brexit and immigration
Has anybody disputed she's British? Anyway, PB has gone its normal way of talking about Brexit, immigration and so on, but my point was that everybody seems to adore Emma personally.
(Easier to call her Emma than risk misspelling her name).
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
Why am I not surprised that the news that the fallacy of the undistributed middle, is a fallacy, has yet to reach the "universities" of East Anglia?
In 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians.
Were Romanians 92% of all poor young men in London, or more, or fewer?
Edit: and Farage's point was this: if we have the legitimate choice of changing the rules so that they and their peers stay and raid cash machines in Poland Czechia and Romania, rather than London, why would we not exercise that choice?
Seems a solid argument.
I work in statistics. When someone tells me that 'in 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians' I think it sounds like exactly what it is - a number plucked out of the air by an innumerate PC plod.
Well, you don't work very hard or effectively in them. How the fuck can you assess the validity of a proposition that 92% of x are y by what it fucking "sounds like"? Moron.
Loving the entry-level snobbery about policemen, though. Which other occupations of the lower orders do you look down on?
And this is C4 News of all places:
The verdict
We think Mr Farage has cut a few corners here: police intelligence isn’t the same as conviction rates; 28,000 arrests isn’t the same as 28,000 people; 7 per cent of criminal networks isn’t the same as 7 per cent of crime.
Nevertheless, we ought to say that the Ukip leader is not plucking these claims of criminality out of thin air. They are based on real statements put out by various police forces, some of whom have real concerns about the activities of Romanian wrongdoers.
Met figures show that Romanians are disproportionately more likely to be arrested compared with the citizens of many other countries.
And Ministry of Justice figures similarly show that while the number of Romanians in UK prisons has fallen slightly over the last year, the number still remains large as a percentage of the likely total Romanian population.
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
Mmm so you think young poorly educated chinese immigrants would be more likely to commit crimes??
Personally: I'd say it depends on their parents. But that might be controversial. And wrong.
If their parents were gangsters they would be Tongs more likely to commit crimes.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
I think IQ is a standardised scale where by definition the median = 100. So actually it can't drop, except in local pockets relative to the whole population.
But anyway, my reference was to the director's cut of PB's fave movie. Check it out.
There’s a director’s cut of Die Hard?
ydoethur - you know, I expected more from you. I thought you'd be smarter than this.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
I think IQ is a standardised scale where by definition the median = 100. So actually it can't drop, except in local pockets relative to the whole population.
But anyway, my reference was to the director's cut of PB's fave movie. Check it out.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
I think IQ is a standardised scale where by definition the median = 100. So actually it can't drop, except in local pockets relative to the whole population.
But anyway, my reference was to the director's cut of PB's fave movie. Check it out.
There’s a director’s cut of Die Hard?
ydoethur - you know, I expected more from you. I thought you'd be smarter than this.
You think Revenge of the Sith is the most popular film on this board?
I mean I know it’s the best of the prequels but even so…
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite - it's been a huge love-in.
There have been arguments over whether she is British and political point scoring over Brexit and immigration
Has anybody disputed she's British? Anyway, PB has gone its normal way of talking about Brexit, immigration and so on, but my point was that everybody seems to adore Emma personally.
(Easier to call her Emma than risk misspelling her name).
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
Why am I not surprised that the news that the fallacy of the undistributed middle, is a fallacy, has yet to reach the "universities" of East Anglia?
In 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians.
Were Romanians 92% of all poor young men in London, or more, or fewer?
Edit: and Farage's point was this: if we have the legitimate choice of changing the rules so that they and their peers stay and raid cash machines in Poland Czechia and Romania, rather than London, why would we not exercise that choice?
Seems a solid argument.
I work in statistics. When someone tells me that 'in 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians' I think it sounds like exactly what it is - a number plucked out of the air by an innumerate PC plod.
Well, you don't work very hard or effectively in them. How the fuck can you assess the validity of a proposition that 92% of x are y by what it fucking "sounds like"? Moron.
Loving the entry-level snobbery about policemen, though. Which other occupations of the lower orders do you look down on?
And this is C4 News of all places:
The verdict
We think Mr Farage has cut a few corners here: police intelligence isn’t the same as conviction rates; 28,000 arrests isn’t the same as 28,000 people; 7 per cent of criminal networks isn’t the same as 7 per cent of crime.
Nevertheless, we ought to say that the Ukip leader is not plucking these claims of criminality out of thin air. They are based on real statements put out by various police forces, some of whom have real concerns about the activities of Romanian wrongdoers.
Met figures show that Romanians are disproportionately more likely to be arrested compared with the citizens of many other countries.
And Ministry of Justice figures similarly show that while the number of Romanians in UK prisons has fallen slightly over the last year, the number still remains large as a percentage of the likely total Romanian population.
Are we talking Romabians per se here? Or are we talking a specific group within Romanians?
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite - it's been a huge love-in.
There have been arguments over whether she is British and political point scoring over Brexit and immigration
I posted one earlier, and thought better of it as I was going out. 'Let's use ER as a lever to have a pop at Farage.'
(AFAIK that is a misrep of what Farage said, but I have not see his original words, only the James O Brien interview.)
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
It's probably much more likely that a Romanian ATM fraud gang came to the UK under free movement with the intention of committing crimes. The stat is 92% of crimes, not that 92% of Romanians are criminals. That sounds like a few gangs saw an easy target in the UK and were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents.
"were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents."
Can you think of any way of remedying that situation?
Abolish freedom of movement
If the money is coming from crime, rather than from state benefits, it’s probably more to do with the existence of cheap travel i.e Ryanair than freedom of movement per se.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I think he knows this, and the point was that in a normal distribution, like IQ, median and mean are basically the same.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite - it's been a huge love-in.
There have been arguments over whether she is British and political point scoring over Brexit and immigration
I posted one earlier, and thought better of it as I was going out. Let's use ER as a lever to have a pop at Farage. Eurogoons gonna goon.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
It's probably much more likely that a Romanian ATM fraud gang came to the UK under free movement with the intention of committing crimes. The stat is 92% of crimes, not that 92% of Romanians are criminals. That sounds like a few gangs saw an easy target in the UK and were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents.
"were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents."
Can you think of any way of remedying that situation?
Abolish freedom of movement
If the money is coming from crime, rather than from state benefits, it’s probably more to do with the existence of cheap travel i.e Ryanair than freedom of movement per se.
We have seen in recent years criminals coming from even further afield e.g. South America, to spend 3 months committing crime before returning home with their spoils. Globalisation of crime....
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
Yes, there is. Median is 2. Line all the people up in order of number of legs, and take the person in the middle of the line. They will have 2 legs.
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
Mmm so you think young poorly educated chinese immigrants would be more likely to commit crimes??
That Chinese have their own criminal gangs - I presume you've heard of the Triads?
And, yes, I think if you took a poor, poorly educated Chinese person and put them in a place where the easiest way to make money was crime, then yes, they would commit crime.
I suspect that the same would be true of Brits, etc.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
You'd surely have spot on for the median for the same reason as you have the mode, even if it is above the mean average?
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
Mmm so you think young poorly educated chinese immigrants would be more likely to commit crimes??
That Chinese have their own criminal gangs - I presume you've heard of the Triads?
And, yes, I think if you took a poor, poorly educated Chinese person and put them in a place where the easiest way to make money was crime, then yes, they would commit crime.
I suspect that the same would be true of Brits, etc.
My understanding with romanians and ATMs, the organized gangs are known across europe for having a particular niche technical expertise for this time of crime and thus make up a large proportion.of the perpetrators.
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
It's probably much more likely that a Romanian ATM fraud gang came to the UK under free movement with the intention of committing crimes. The stat is 92% of crimes, not that 92% of Romanians are criminals. That sounds like a few gangs saw an easy target in the UK and were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents.
"were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents."
Can you think of any way of remedying that situation?
Abolish freedom of movement
If the money is coming from crime, rather than from state benefits, it’s probably more to do with the existence of cheap travel i.e Ryanair than freedom of movement per se.
We have seen in recent years criminals coming from even further afield e.g. South America, to spend 3 months committing crime before returning home with their spoils. Globalisation of crime....
Indeed. If you’re a gang of high end jewel thieves, flights from Rio are no problem. Flights from Romania rather cheaper.
(The change which the end of freedom of movement does bring is that it ends the Big Issue scam — bring over a dozen romanian gypsies, put them up in one house, steal their passports, get them selling the Big Issue, have them register as self employed, and thus eligible for working tax credits and child benefit etc.)
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
It's probably much more likely that a Romanian ATM fraud gang came to the UK under free movement with the intention of committing crimes. The stat is 92% of crimes, not that 92% of Romanians are criminals. That sounds like a few gangs saw an easy target in the UK and were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents.
"were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents."
Can you think of any way of remedying that situation?
Abolish freedom of movement
If the money is coming from crime, rather than from state benefits, it’s probably more to do with the existence of cheap travel i.e Ryanair than freedom of movement per se.
We have seen in recent years criminals coming from even further afield e.g. South America, to spend 3 months committing crime before returning home with their spoils. Globalisation of crime....
Indeed. If you’re a gang of high end jewel thieves, flights from Rio are no problem. Flights from Romania rather cheaper.
(The change which the end of freedom of movement does bring is that it ends the Big Issue scam — bring over a dozen romanian gypsies, put them up in one house, steal their passports, get them selling the Big Issue, have them register as self employed, and thus eligible for working tax credits and child benefit etc.)
Yes , i can't remember the stat for Romanians who were percentage of big issue sellers, but it was huge and it waa organized...the thing a lot of peoppe don't realise about big issue you have to put the money for the stock on sale or return...my understanding was the scam was organized gangs flooded the market buying up all the stock.
Maybe there is a panic about the loss of the Tory poll lead and BoJo's rating collapse
What did they expect ? Surely they have advisers who would have been able to foresee this.
I honestly don't think they did see it, the Tory party just seems to have forgotten how difficult it is to be a young worker on £18-40k all over the country. They've become the party of the comfortable and wealthy (people like me, ostensibly) who have no social conscience (so really only people like HYFUD). No one at the top table has any insight into the life of a 20 or 30 something living in a shared house paying shit loads in rent from income that is taxed far too much and is therefore unable to get on the property ladder.
Yet the Tories lost under 45 year olds even in 2019. Some of that age group will also benefit from a gift from their parents or inheritance from their grandparents to help with a deposit.
Post Brexit it is over 45 year olds who won the Tories most seats in 2017 and 2019 as younger Remainers have gone to Labour or the LDs. While Cameron won workers over 35 in 2010 and when he won a majority in 2015, May and Boris only won most seats in 2017 and a majority in 2019 due to those 45 and over year olds ie mainly non workers and particularly pensioners who they won by far more than Cameron did after the collapse of UKIP and gains from Labour Leavers.
Indeed according to the latest Yougov there has been a bigger shift from the Tories amongst over 65s due to the freeze in the triple lock than amongst 25 to 49 year olds over the NI rise.
For the record I lived in a shared house in the West Midlands and Welsh border for most of my early 30s on an average salary.
You understand how marginal losses work though. Losing 38-35 is an election winning score for the Tories and implies a winning the top of the category (which you did). Losing 50-25 is Labour 300+ seats.
You can bang on about how a plurality of Tory voters support raising taxes on workers as much as you like, it's Boris' poll tax and it's going to lose you the election.
It isn't, if the Tories had not lost any votes from over 65s over the triple lock freeze, they would still have a clear enough lead for a narrow 1992 style majority even despite any losses from under 45s over the NI rise.
At the moment it is the triple lock freeze which will cost Boris his majority, not the NI rise. The big move has not been to Labour and the LDs but to RefUK and DK amongst the over 65s.
I warned about the dangers of not delivering the commitment to increase the triple lock on our core vote beforehand.
The NI rise is regrettable but necessary to fund extra funds for the NHS post Covid and social care and hopefully taxes in income can then be cut before the next general election
Surely as the triple lock removal is only temporary this is not a long term worry for the Conservatives for 3023/24.
What the Conservatives do need to worry about are younger people as in 1997, who are so enraged at having been royally shafted by the Conservatives that they get off their lazy arses and vote for somebody other than Boris, whereas under normal circumstances they wouldn't bother voting at all. That should be a concern to you.
My concern surrounds the young, students and low pay workers and the loss of the £20 UC uplift which is immoral
Maybe it is highlighted even more as my granddaughter went into her student accommodation in Leeds yesterday for her 5 year Japanese and Italian course and the tax rate for students in their early years is unacceptable
No matter it has to be about fairness, I am not a member of the conservative party, and therefore homeless so it is up to the other parties to make an offer that attracts me to vote for them
Remember, I have done it twice for Blair, as @HYUFD reminds everyone and according to him I am not a pure conservative
The only things Hyufd conserves are his errors, which he will fight in the last ditch to hang on to.
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
Why am I not surprised that the news that the fallacy of the undistributed middle, is a fallacy, has yet to reach the "universities" of East Anglia?
In 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians.
Were Romanians 92% of all poor young men in London, or more, or fewer?
Edit: and Farage's point was this: if we have the legitimate choice of changing the rules so that they and their peers stay and raid cash machines in Poland Czechia and Romania, rather than London, why would we not exercise that choice?
Seems a solid argument.
I work in statistics. When someone tells me that 'in 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians' I think it sounds like exactly what it is - a number plucked out of the air by an innumerate PC plod.
Well, you don't work very hard or effectively in them. How the fuck can you assess the validity of a proposition that 92% of x are y by what it fucking "sounds like"? Moron.
Loving the entry-level snobbery about policemen, though. Which other occupations of the lower orders do you look down on?
And this is C4 News of all places:
The verdict
We think Mr Farage has cut a few corners here: police intelligence isn’t the same as conviction rates; 28,000 arrests isn’t the same as 28,000 people; 7 per cent of criminal networks isn’t the same as 7 per cent of crime.
Nevertheless, we ought to say that the Ukip leader is not plucking these claims of criminality out of thin air. They are based on real statements put out by various police forces, some of whom have real concerns about the activities of Romanian wrongdoers.
Met figures show that Romanians are disproportionately more likely to be arrested compared with the citizens of many other countries.
And Ministry of Justice figures similarly show that while the number of Romanians in UK prisons has fallen slightly over the last year, the number still remains large as a percentage of the likely total Romanian population.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
Most people usually associate it with the mean, but a lot of the time the median is more useful.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
It's probably much more likely that a Romanian ATM fraud gang came to the UK under free movement with the intention of committing crimes. The stat is 92% of crimes, not that 92% of Romanians are criminals. That sounds like a few gangs saw an easy target in the UK and were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents.
"were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents."
Can you think of any way of remedying that situation?
Abolish freedom of movement
If the money is coming from crime, rather than from state benefits, it’s probably more to do with the existence of cheap travel i.e Ryanair than freedom of movement per se.
We have seen in recent years criminals coming from even further afield e.g. South America, to spend 3 months committing crime before returning home with their spoils. Globalisation of crime....
Indeed. If you’re a gang of high end jewel thieves, flights from Rio are no problem. Flights from Romania rather cheaper.
(The change which the end of freedom of movement does bring is that it ends the Big Issue scam — bring over a dozen romanian gypsies, put them up in one house, steal their passports, get them selling the Big Issue, have them register as self employed, and thus eligible for working tax credits and child benefit etc.)
Yes , i can't remember the stat for Romanians who were percentage of big issue sellers, but it was huge and it waa organized...the thing a lot of peoppe don't realise about big issue you have to buy the stock...my understanding was the scam was organized gangs flooded the market buying up all the stock.
Yes, they would turn up in a van, buy all the stock, bully genuine homeless people off their pitches etc.
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
Why am I not surprised that the news that the fallacy of the undistributed middle, is a fallacy, has yet to reach the "universities" of East Anglia?
In 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians.
Were Romanians 92% of all poor young men in London, or more, or fewer?
Edit: and Farage's point was this: if we have the legitimate choice of changing the rules so that they and their peers stay and raid cash machines in Poland Czechia and Romania, rather than London, why would we not exercise that choice?
Seems a solid argument.
I work in statistics. When someone tells me that 'in 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians' I think it sounds like exactly what it is - a number plucked out of the air by an innumerate PC plod.
Well, you don't work very hard or effectively in them. How the fuck can you assess the validity of a proposition that 92% of x are y by what it fucking "sounds like"? Moron.
Loving the entry-level snobbery about policemen, though. Which other occupations of the lower orders do you look down on?
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
It's probably much more likely that a Romanian ATM fraud gang came to the UK under free movement with the intention of committing crimes. The stat is 92% of crimes, not that 92% of Romanians are criminals. That sounds like a few gangs saw an easy target in the UK and were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents.
"were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents."
Can you think of any way of remedying that situation?
Abolish freedom of movement
If the money is coming from crime, rather than from state benefits, it’s probably more to do with the existence of cheap travel i.e Ryanair than freedom of movement per se.
I thought we couldn’t deport criminals and keep them out because of FoM?
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
You'd surely have spot on for the median for the same reason as you have the mode, even if it is above the mean average?
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
Why am I not surprised that the news that the fallacy of the undistributed middle, is a fallacy, has yet to reach the "universities" of East Anglia?
In 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians.
Were Romanians 92% of all poor young men in London, or more, or fewer?
Edit: and Farage's point was this: if we have the legitimate choice of changing the rules so that they and their peers stay and raid cash machines in Poland Czechia and Romania, rather than London, why would we not exercise that choice?
Seems a solid argument.
I work in statistics. When someone tells me that 'in 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians' I think it sounds like exactly what it is - a number plucked out of the air by an innumerate PC plod.
Well, you don't work very hard or effectively in them. How the fuck can you assess the validity of a proposition that 92% of x are y by what it fucking "sounds like"? Moron.
Loving the entry-level snobbery about policemen, though. Which other occupations of the lower orders do you look down on?
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
It's probably much more likely that a Romanian ATM fraud gang came to the UK under free movement with the intention of committing crimes. The stat is 92% of crimes, not that 92% of Romanians are criminals. That sounds like a few gangs saw an easy target in the UK and were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents.
"were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents."
Can you think of any way of remedying that situation?
Abolish freedom of movement
If the money is coming from crime, rather than from state benefits, it’s probably more to do with the existence of cheap travel i.e Ryanair than freedom of movement per se.
I thought we couldn’t deport criminals and keep them out because of FoM?
I’m assuming most are never caught, or at least not successfully prosecuted. For those who are, of course, you are right.
So we should be filing her victory under "despite Brexit"?
Ask this guy...
Perfect, well done! The same mistake James O'Brien made 6-7 years ago
Farage was talking about something akin 12 Romanian construction workers living 3 a bedroom in a multiple occupancy, Raducanu's parents were a married couple with a young family. So the question isn't one of the nationality of the neighbour, but the set up of the household. Farages Gemran wife and kids were the obvious counterpoint to this at the time
Yeah, but you know what, he didn't have to specific a specific nationality onto it.
He could have said "a group of young men, who barely speak English, working for cash in hand in the construction industry, not paying taxes".
He chose to apply a specific nationality.
It was lazy stereotyping on his behalf. And, yes, it was racist.
Farage was asked "if a group of Romanian men moved in next door to you, would you be concerned?" so it wasn't his choice to specify their nationality, so it wasn't lazy stereotyping on his behalf, I don't think it racist either
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
Mode and median are both 2.
Only if you exclude those with one leg! Or none!
Not so. Mode is, literally, fashion. Check out this season's sidewalks, notice how many legs the majority of the models have. So mode is 2, mean is 1.9999998, median is the person halfway along the distribution 0001111112222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222, which is 2.
So we should be filing her victory under "despite Brexit"?
Ask this guy...
Perfect, well done! The same mistake James O'Brien made 6-7 years ago
Farage was talking about something akin 12 Romanian construction workers living 3 a bedroom in a multiple occupancy, Raducanu's parents were a married couple with a young family. So the question isn't one of the nationality of the neighbour, but the set up of the household. Farages Gemran wife and kids were the obvious counterpoint to this at the time
Yeah, but you know what, he didn't have to specific a specific nationality onto it.
He could have said "a group of young men, who barely speak English, working for cash in hand in the construction industry, not paying taxes".
He chose to apply a specific nationality.
It was lazy stereotyping on his behalf. And, yes, it was racist.
Farage was asked "if a group of Romanian men moved in next door to you, would you be concerned?" so it wasn't his choice to specify their nationality, so it wasn't lazy stereotyping on his behalf, I don't think it racist either
"Well, it depends. Are they teachers? Are they working at the local hospital? Or are they a group of young men with no obvious visible means of support? If it's the latter group, then yes I'd be very concerned indeed."
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
Mode and median are both 2.
Only if you exclude those with one leg! Or none!
Not so. Mode is, literally, fashion. Check out this season's sidewalks, notice how many legs the majority of the models have. So mode is 2, mean is 1.9999998, median is the person halfway along the distribution 0001111112222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222, which is 2.
So you're airbrushing people with 3 legs out of the story? Can someone cancel this guy please?
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
Mode and median are both 2.
Only if you exclude those with one leg! Or none!
Not so. Mode is, literally, fashion. Check out this season's sidewalks, notice how many legs the majority of the models have. So mode is 2, mean is 1.9999998, median is the person halfway along the distribution 0001111112222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222, which is 2.
"You know, IshmaelZ, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage."
So we should be filing her victory under "despite Brexit"?
Ask this guy...
Perfect, well done! The same mistake James O'Brien made 6-7 years ago
Farage was talking about something akin 12 Romanian construction workers living 3 a bedroom in a multiple occupancy, Raducanu's parents were a married couple with a young family. So the question isn't one of the nationality of the neighbour, but the set up of the household. Farages Gemran wife and kids were the obvious counterpoint to this at the time
Yeah, but you know what, he didn't have to specific a specific nationality onto it.
He could have said "a group of young men, who barely speak English, working for cash in hand in the construction industry, not paying taxes".
He chose to apply a specific nationality.
It was lazy stereotyping on his behalf. And, yes, it was racist.
Farage was asked "if a group of Romanian men moved in next door to you, would you be concerned?" so it wasn't his choice to specify their nationality, so it wasn't lazy stereotyping on his behalf, I don't think it racist either
"Well, it depends. Are they teachers? Are they working at the local hospital? Or are they a group of young men with no obvious visible means of support? If it's the latter group, then yes I'd be very concerned indeed."
If male Romanian immigrants had largely been teachers or working at the local hospital, rather than car washers/working on building sites, he wouldn't have been asked the question - this was real life, not theory
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Fair play to Leon. Unlike most of the middle aged blokes perving over the "Hot Teen Girls" on the tennis court he is up front about it.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
You'd surely have spot on for the median for the same reason as you have the mode, even if it is above the mean average?
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
Why am I not surprised that the news that the fallacy of the undistributed middle, is a fallacy, has yet to reach the "universities" of East Anglia?
In 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians.
Were Romanians 92% of all poor young men in London, or more, or fewer?
Edit: and Farage's point was this: if we have the legitimate choice of changing the rules so that they and their peers stay and raid cash machines in Poland Czechia and Romania, rather than London, why would we not exercise that choice?
Seems a solid argument.
I work in statistics. When someone tells me that 'in 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians' I think it sounds like exactly what it is - a number plucked out of the air by an innumerate PC plod.
Well, you don't work very hard or effectively in them. How the fuck can you assess the validity of a proposition that 92% of x are y by what it fucking "sounds like"? Moron.
Loving the entry-level snobbery about policemen, though. Which other occupations of the lower orders do you look down on?
And this is C4 News of all places:
The verdict
We think Mr Farage has cut a few corners here: police intelligence isn’t the same as conviction rates; 28,000 arrests isn’t the same as 28,000 people; 7 per cent of criminal networks isn’t the same as 7 per cent of crime.
Nevertheless, we ought to say that the Ukip leader is not plucking these claims of criminality out of thin air. They are based on real statements put out by various police forces, some of whom have real concerns about the activities of Romanian wrongdoers.
Met figures show that Romanians are disproportionately more likely to be arrested compared with the citizens of many other countries.
And Ministry of Justice figures similarly show that while the number of Romanians in UK prisons has fallen slightly over the last year, the number still remains large as a percentage of the likely total Romanian population.
Are we talking Romabians per se here? Or are we talking a specific group within Romanians?
It's linked above. Mainly the type of stuff that used to operate in places like Rome and we were always warned about I think. Crime gangs, perhaps supervising underage offenders,
Various things at play.
What did Farage say originally? Not sure. Was James Bob trying to trap him (yes - it's James Bob) about distinctions around 'families' and 'gangs of men'? Which were then choreographed into 'hates Rumanians'. Plus lack of clarity about Roma vs Rumanians.
The exact linkage / truth is awkward to nail down.
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
Why am I not surprised that the news that the fallacy of the undistributed middle, is a fallacy, has yet to reach the "universities" of East Anglia?
In 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians.
Were Romanians 92% of all poor young men in London, or more, or fewer?
Edit: and Farage's point was this: if we have the legitimate choice of changing the rules so that they and their peers stay and raid cash machines in Poland Czechia and Romania, rather than London, why would we not exercise that choice?
Seems a solid argument.
I work in statistics. When someone tells me that 'in 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians' I think it sounds like exactly what it is - a number plucked out of the air by an innumerate PC plod.
Well, you don't work very hard or effectively in them. How the fuck can you assess the validity of a proposition that 92% of x are y by what it fucking "sounds like"? Moron.
Loving the entry-level snobbery about policemen, though. Which other occupations of the lower orders do you look down on?
Miners. Divers. Those people in yellow hard hats doing stuff with plastic pipes in the roadworks. I look down on them all.
I certainly look down on the latter. For wrecking the pavement outside my house and leaving humps and scarps of tarmac for me to trip over.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
You'd surely have spot on for the median for the same reason as you have the mode, even if it is above the mean average?
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
It's probably much more likely that a Romanian ATM fraud gang came to the UK under free movement with the intention of committing crimes. The stat is 92% of crimes, not that 92% of Romanians are criminals. That sounds like a few gangs saw an easy target in the UK and were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents.
"were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents."
Can you think of any way of remedying that situation?
Abolish freedom of movement
If the money is coming from crime, rather than from state benefits, it’s probably more to do with the existence of cheap travel i.e Ryanair than freedom of movement per se.
I thought we couldn’t deport criminals and keep them out because of FoM?
I was told on PB it was because it was below the dignity of HMG to even bother to control immigration. (When I inquired what the hell the Brexiters were going to do about the Irish border - and that was, I think, back in 2016. I was assured it didn't make any difference, for the above reason.)
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
Mode and median are both 2.
Only if you exclude those with one leg! Or none!
Not so. Mode is, literally, fashion. Check out this season's sidewalks, notice how many legs the majority of the models have. So mode is 2, mean is 1.9999998, median is the person halfway along the distribution 0001111112222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222, which is 2.
"You know, IshmaelZ, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage."
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Fair play to Leon. Unlike most of the middle aged blokes perving over the "Hot Teen Girls" on the tennis court he is up front about it.
Urgh. Do you have to word it in quite that way?!? This is a family website, or should be.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
You'd surely have spot on for the median for the same reason as you have the mode, even if it is above the mean average?
If over 50% of a population have the same figure, then by definition it must be both the mean and median average.
Not the mean, surely? If a million people had two legs and one person had 1, the mean would be something like 1.99999.
Typo I clearly meant modal and median, since I'd already said mean is different.
Hence why mode and median are both the same answer, for the same reason. Since over half the population has 2 legs, 2 legs must by definition be both the modal (most common) and median (in the middle) average.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Fair play to Leon. Unlike most of the middle aged blokes perving over the "Hot Teen Girls" on the tennis court he is up front about it.
Some thoughts are best kept to themselves .Its tedious at best if not disgusting as PT says
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite - it's been a huge love-in.
There have been arguments over whether she is British and political point scoring over Brexit and immigration
I posted one earlier, and thought better of it as I was going out. Let's use ER as a lever to have a pop at Farage. Eurogoons gonna goon.
indeed that was one example
Which will be the one generally seen, because Keating retweeted it, and he is probably the superspreader.
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
It's probably much more likely that a Romanian ATM fraud gang came to the UK under free movement with the intention of committing crimes. The stat is 92% of crimes, not that 92% of Romanians are criminals. That sounds like a few gangs saw an easy target in the UK and were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents.
"were able to come to the UK for prolonged periods without being bothered by law enforcement or border agents."
Can you think of any way of remedying that situation?
Abolish freedom of movement
If the money is coming from crime, rather than from state benefits, it’s probably more to do with the existence of cheap travel i.e Ryanair than freedom of movement per se.
I thought we couldn’t deport criminals and keep them out because of FoM?
I was told on PB it was because it was below the dignity of HMG to even bother to control immigration. (When I inquired what the hell the Brexiters were going to do about the Irish border - and that was, I think, back in 2016. I was assured it didn't make any difference, for the above reason.)
There's absolutely no reason to be bothered about the Irish border, because controls over immigration don't happen at the border anyway.
Unless your intention is to do away with the idea of tourism there's no reason why someone should fly into Dublin, drive to Belfast and get a ferry to Liverpool. They can just get a return flight from wherever they're coming from direct to Liverpool and simply 'forget' to get on the return flight.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
Most people usually associate it with the mean, but a lot of the time the median is more useful.
Agree - I much prefer median. But I don’t call it the average
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
You'd surely have spot on for the median for the same reason as you have the mode, even if it is above the mean average?
If over 50% of a population have the same figure, then by definition it must be both the mean and median average.
Not the mean, surely? If a million people had two legs and one person had 1, the mean would be something like 1.99999.
Typo I clearly meant modal and median, since I'd already said mean is different.
Hence why mode and median are both the same answer, for the same reason. Since over half the population has 2 legs, 2 legs must by definition be both the modal (most common) and median (in the middle) average.
Now - I can believe that Romanians (on average) were more poorly educated than their peers from Poland or the Czech Republic, and therefore more likely to commit crimes.
But it is their being young and male and poorly educated that is the driver of their criminality, not the location of their birth.
Why am I not surprised that the news that the fallacy of the undistributed middle, is a fallacy, has yet to reach the "universities" of East Anglia?
In 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians.
Were Romanians 92% of all poor young men in London, or more, or fewer?
Edit: and Farage's point was this: if we have the legitimate choice of changing the rules so that they and their peers stay and raid cash machines in Poland Czechia and Romania, rather than London, why would we not exercise that choice?
Seems a solid argument.
I work in statistics. When someone tells me that 'in 2012 92 per cent of all ATM crime in London was committed by Romanians' I think it sounds like exactly what it is - a number plucked out of the air by an innumerate PC plod.
Well, you don't work very hard or effectively in them. How the fuck can you assess the validity of a proposition that 92% of x are y by what it fucking "sounds like"? Moron.
Loving the entry-level snobbery about policemen, though. Which other occupations of the lower orders do you look down on?
And this is C4 News of all places:
The verdict
We think Mr Farage has cut a few corners here: police intelligence isn’t the same as conviction rates; 28,000 arrests isn’t the same as 28,000 people; 7 per cent of criminal networks isn’t the same as 7 per cent of crime.
Nevertheless, we ought to say that the Ukip leader is not plucking these claims of criminality out of thin air. They are based on real statements put out by various police forces, some of whom have real concerns about the activities of Romanian wrongdoers.
Met figures show that Romanians are disproportionately more likely to be arrested compared with the citizens of many other countries.
And Ministry of Justice figures similarly show that while the number of Romanians in UK prisons has fallen slightly over the last year, the number still remains large as a percentage of the likely total Romanian population.
Are we talking Romabians per se here? Or are we talking a specific group within Romanians?
It's linked above. Mainly the type of stuff that used to operate in places like Rome and we were always warned about I think. Crime gangs, perhaps supervising underage offenders,
Various things at play.
What did Farage say originally? Not sure. Was James Bob trying to trap him (yes - it's James Bob) about distinctions around 'families' and 'gangs of men'? Which were then choreographed into 'hates Rumanians'. Plus lack of clarity about Roma vs Rumanians.
The exact linkage / truth is awkward to nail down.
O'Brien started that Gotcha interview with a complete falsehood - said it had emerged overnight that a UKIP councillor had come out with some horrible homophobic remark, and asked Farage what he was going to do about it. Farage said he didn't think the bloke was actually a UKIP councillor was he? O'Brien said that he was.
The truth was it was a UKIP candidate that had made the remarks months earlier and been chucked out, stood at the election as an Indy and lost. I pulled O'Brien on it on twitter and he just set his soppy disciples out to bore me all day
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
You'd surely have spot on for the median for the same reason as you have the mode, even if it is above the mean average?
If over 50% of a population have the same figure, then by definition it must be both the mean and median average.
Not the mean, surely? If a million people had two legs and one person had 1, the mean would be something like 1.99999.
Typo I clearly meant modal and median, since I'd already said mean is different.
Hence why mode and median are both the same answer, for the same reason. Since over half the population has 2 legs, 2 legs must by definition be both the modal (most common) and median (in the middle) average.
Mean average will be less than 2.
Jake the Millipede says hi.
Not sure he has human rights. Not yet, anyway. (And that is assuming he's a he. So that is a black mark against me.)
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
Most people usually associate it with the mean, but a lot of the time the median is more useful.
Agree - I much prefer median. But I don’t call it the average
I bet you do, I bet you just don't think about it when you do.
On average how many legs does a spider have? The mean average would be less than 8, for the same reason the mean average for people is less than 2.
Median is perfectly legitimate use of the word average, it just depends upon circumstances which is more applicable and if you need to be specific you should probably specify which average you mean.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
You'd surely have spot on for the median for the same reason as you have the mode, even if it is above the mean average?
If over 50% of a population have the same figure, then by definition it must be both the mean and median average.
Not the mean, surely? If a million people had two legs and one person had 1, the mean would be something like 1.99999.
Typo I clearly meant modal and median, since I'd already said mean is different.
Hence why mode and median are both the same answer, for the same reason. Since over half the population has 2 legs, 2 legs must by definition be both the modal (most common) and median (in the middle) average.
Mean average will be less than 2.
Jake the Millipede says hi.
The population was defined (as a human) so Jake would have to wait to be counted unless self-identification has gotten further along than I'd realised.
So we should be filing her victory under "despite Brexit"?
Ask this guy...
Perfect, well done! The same mistake James O'Brien made 6-7 years ago
Farage was talking about something akin 12 Romanian construction workers living 3 a bedroom in a multiple occupancy, Raducanu's parents were a married couple with a young family. So the question isn't one of the nationality of the neighbour, but the set up of the household. Farages Gemran wife and kids were the obvious counterpoint to this at the time
Yeah, but you know what, he didn't have to specific a specific nationality onto it.
He could have said "a group of young men, who barely speak English, working for cash in hand in the construction industry, not paying taxes".
He chose to apply a specific nationality.
It was lazy stereotyping on his behalf. And, yes, it was racist.
Farage was asked "if a group of Romanian men moved in next door to you, would you be concerned?" so it wasn't his choice to specify their nationality, so it wasn't lazy stereotyping on his behalf, I don't think it racist either
To be fair to him when Farage said that people speaking forrin on trains made him uncomfortable, he didn't specify that it was the Romanian language.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
Most people usually associate it with the mean, but a lot of the time the median is more useful.
Agree - I much prefer median. But I don’t call it the average
I bet you do, I bet you just don't think about it when you do.
On average how many legs does a spider have? The mean average would be less than 8, for the same reason the mean average for people is less than 2.
Median is perfectly legitimate use of the word average, it just depends upon circumstances which is more applicable and if you need to be specific you should probably specify which average you mean.
Not to mention being specific about the species you mean.
California is asking the federal government to declare an “electric reliability emergency” so they can lean more heavily on fossil fuels to avoid blackouts
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
You'd surely have spot on for the median for the same reason as you have the mode, even if it is above the mean average?
So we should be filing her victory under "despite Brexit"?
Ask this guy...
Perfect, well done! The same mistake James O'Brien made 6-7 years ago
Farage was talking about something akin 12 Romanian construction workers living 3 a bedroom in a multiple occupancy, Raducanu's parents were a married couple with a young family. So the question isn't one of the nationality of the neighbour, but the set up of the household. Farages Gemran wife and kids were the obvious counterpoint to this at the time
Yeah, but you know what, he didn't have to specific a specific nationality onto it.
He could have said "a group of young men, who barely speak English, working for cash in hand in the construction industry, not paying taxes".
He chose to apply a specific nationality.
It was lazy stereotyping on his behalf. And, yes, it was racist.
Farage was asked "if a group of Romanian men moved in next door to you, would you be concerned?" so it wasn't his choice to specify their nationality, so it wasn't lazy stereotyping on his behalf, I don't think it racist either
To be fair to him when Farage said that people speaking forrin on trains made him uncomfortable, he didn't specify that it was the Romanian language.
Oh don't lower yourself to the "forrin" brigade, I thought more of you!
So we should be filing her victory under "despite Brexit"?
Ask this guy...
Perfect, well done! The same mistake James O'Brien made 6-7 years ago
Farage was talking about something akin 12 Romanian construction workers living 3 a bedroom in a multiple occupancy, Raducanu's parents were a married couple with a young family. So the question isn't one of the nationality of the neighbour, but the set up of the household. Farages Gemran wife and kids were the obvious counterpoint to this at the time
Yeah, but you know what, he didn't have to specific a specific nationality onto it.
He could have said "a group of young men, who barely speak English, working for cash in hand in the construction industry, not paying taxes".
He chose to apply a specific nationality.
It was lazy stereotyping on his behalf. And, yes, it was racist.
Farage was asked "if a group of Romanian men moved in next door to you, would you be concerned?" so it wasn't his choice to specify their nationality, so it wasn't lazy stereotyping on his behalf, I don't think it racist either
To be fair to him when Farage said that people speaking forrin on trains made him uncomfortable, he didn't specify that it was the Romanian language.
Do you think he was on the Aberdeen to Penzance train??
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
You'd surely have spot on for the median for the same reason as you have the mode, even if it is above the mean average?
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
Mode and median are both 2.
Only if you exclude those with one leg! Or none!
Not so. Mode is, literally, fashion. Check out this season's sidewalks, notice how many legs the majority of the models have. So mode is 2, mean is 1.9999998, median is the person halfway along the distribution 0001111112222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222, which is 2.
So you're airbrushing people with 3 legs out of the story? Can someone cancel this guy please?
Rolf Harris has already been airbrushed out of the story, or paint brushed as the case may be.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
You'd surely have spot on for the median for the same reason as you have the mode, even if it is above the mean average?
If over 50% of a population have the same figure, then by definition it must be both the mean and median average.
Not the mean, surely? If a million people had two legs and one person had 1, the mean would be something like 1.99999.
Typo I clearly meant modal and median, since I'd already said mean is different.
Hence why mode and median are both the same answer, for the same reason. Since over half the population has 2 legs, 2 legs must by definition be both the modal (most common) and median (in the middle) average.
So we should be filing her victory under "despite Brexit"?
Ask this guy...
Perfect, well done! The same mistake James O'Brien made 6-7 years ago
Farage was talking about something akin 12 Romanian construction workers living 3 a bedroom in a multiple occupancy, Raducanu's parents were a married couple with a young family. So the question isn't one of the nationality of the neighbour, but the set up of the household. Farages Gemran wife and kids were the obvious counterpoint to this at the time
Yeah, but you know what, he didn't have to specific a specific nationality onto it.
He could have said "a group of young men, who barely speak English, working for cash in hand in the construction industry, not paying taxes".
He chose to apply a specific nationality.
It was lazy stereotyping on his behalf. And, yes, it was racist.
Farage was asked "if a group of Romanian men moved in next door to you, would you be concerned?" so it wasn't his choice to specify their nationality, so it wasn't lazy stereotyping on his behalf, I don't think it racist either
To be fair to him when Farage said that people speaking forrin on trains made him uncomfortable, he didn't specify that it was the Romanian language.
Do you think he was on the Aberdeen to Penzance train??
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
Mode and median are both 2.
Only if you exclude those with one leg! Or none!
Not so. Mode is, literally, fashion. Check out this season's sidewalks, notice how many legs the majority of the models have. So mode is 2, mean is 1.9999998, median is the person halfway along the distribution 0001111112222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222, which is 2.
So you're airbrushing people with 3 legs out of the story? Can someone cancel this guy please?
Rolf Harris has already been airbrushed out of the story, or paint brushed as the case may be.
I saw him in panto when I was a kid. Glad I was in the upper circle.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
Most people usually associate it with the mean, but a lot of the time the median is more useful.
Agree - I much prefer median. But I don’t call it the average
I bet you do, I bet you just don't think about it when you do.
On average how many legs does a spider have? The mean average would be less than 8, for the same reason the mean average for people is less than 2.
Median is perfectly legitimate use of the word average, it just depends upon circumstances which is more applicable and if you need to be specific you should probably specify which average you mean.
Wasnt there some programme that attempted to find the average Australian by taking the average of about 10 characteristics and then finding a aussie that had them all - Turns out there was not one single one.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
You'd surely have spot on for the median for the same reason as you have the mode, even if it is above the mean average?
If over 50% of a population have the same figure, then by definition it must be both the mean and median average.
Not the mean, surely? If a million people had two legs and one person had 1, the mean would be something like 1.99999.
Typo I clearly meant modal and median, since I'd already said mean is different.
Hence why mode and median are both the same answer, for the same reason. Since over half the population has 2 legs, 2 legs must by definition be both the modal (most common) and median (in the middle) average.
So we should be filing her victory under "despite Brexit"?
Ask this guy...
Perfect, well done! The same mistake James O'Brien made 6-7 years ago
Farage was talking about something akin 12 Romanian construction workers living 3 a bedroom in a multiple occupancy, Raducanu's parents were a married couple with a young family. So the question isn't one of the nationality of the neighbour, but the set up of the household. Farages Gemran wife and kids were the obvious counterpoint to this at the time
Yeah, but you know what, he didn't have to specific a specific nationality onto it.
He could have said "a group of young men, who barely speak English, working for cash in hand in the construction industry, not paying taxes".
He chose to apply a specific nationality.
It was lazy stereotyping on his behalf. And, yes, it was racist.
Farage was asked "if a group of Romanian men moved in next door to you, would you be concerned?" so it wasn't his choice to specify their nationality, so it wasn't lazy stereotyping on his behalf, I don't think it racist either
To be fair to him when Farage said that people speaking forrin on trains made him uncomfortable, he didn't specify that it was the Romanian language.
Do you think he was on the Aberdeen to Penzance train??
Maybe the Inverness to Ullapool ferry?
Och, yes. Or under the railway bridge at Central Station, for that matter. Not to mention the Machynlleth to Pwllheli train (from my memory of a holiday spent at Harlech and trundling along the line - with the schoolchildren all chattering away in the old Brythonic.)
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
Mode and median are both 2.
Only if you exclude those with one leg! Or none!
Not so. Mode is, literally, fashion. Check out this season's sidewalks, notice how many legs the majority of the models have. So mode is 2, mean is 1.9999998, median is the person halfway along the distribution 0001111112222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222, which is 2.
So you're airbrushing people with 3 legs out of the story? Can someone cancel this guy please?
Rolf Harris has already been airbrushed out of the story, or paint brushed as the case may be.
I saw him in panto when I was a kid. Glad I was in the upper circle.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
I find it helpful to use "number of legs (as a human)" as a test case. I have more than the mean, spot on the mode, and I'm not sure there even is a median.
Mode and median are both 2.
Only if you exclude those with one leg! Or none!
Not so. Mode is, literally, fashion. Check out this season's sidewalks, notice how many legs the majority of the models have. So mode is 2, mean is 1.9999998, median is the person halfway along the distribution 0001111112222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222, which is 2.
So you're airbrushing people with 3 legs out of the story? Can someone cancel this guy please?
Rolf Harris has already been airbrushed out of the story, or paint brushed as the case may be.
I saw him in panto when I was a kid. Glad I was in the upper circle.
This is a young lady who has so much talent, is mature beyond her years, and speaks with such intelligence some of the commentary on here today has demeaned her and I am sad to have read it
A strange comment. From what I've read on here, everybody has said how marvellous her victory was, and how delightful a person she seems to be. So I'm not sure who's meant to have demeaned her. Quite the opposite.
Leon has been disgusting.
Did PB's IQ drop sharply while I was away?
Average IQ, or median?
Median is average.
Average is more usually equated with mean. Median and mode are different
Most people usually associate it with the mean, but a lot of the time the median is more useful.
Agree - I much prefer median. But I don’t call it the average
I bet you do, I bet you just don't think about it when you do.
On average how many legs does a spider have? The mean average would be less than 8, for the same reason the mean average for people is less than 2.
Median is perfectly legitimate use of the word average, it just depends upon circumstances which is more applicable and if you need to be specific you should probably specify which average you mean.
Well the Cambridge University Dictiobary seems to think the average is the mean
Most people I come across use mean/median to avoid confusion, but whenever they say “average” they are referring to the mean. And since language is about communication I’d recommend going with the flow.
Maybe there is a panic about the loss of the Tory poll lead and BoJo's rating collapse
What did they expect ? Surely they have advisers who would have been able to foresee this.
I honestly don't think they did see it, the Tory party just seems to have forgotten how difficult it is to be a young worker on £18-40k all over the country. They've become the party of the comfortable and wealthy (people like me, ostensibly) who have no social conscience (so really only people like HYFUD). No one at the top table has any insight into the life of a 20 or 30 something living in a shared house paying shit loads in rent from income that is taxed far too much and is therefore unable to get on the property ladder.
Yet the Tories lost under 45 year olds even in 2019. Some of that age group will also benefit from a gift from their parents or inheritance from their grandparents to help with a deposit.
Post Brexit it is over 45 year olds who won the Tories most seats in 2017 and 2019 as younger Remainers have gone to Labour or the LDs. While Cameron won workers over 35 in 2010 and when he won a majority in 2015, May and Boris only won most seats in 2017 and a majority in 2019 due to those 45 and over year olds ie mainly non workers and particularly pensioners who they won by far more than Cameron did after the collapse of UKIP and gains from Labour Leavers.
Indeed according to the latest Yougov there has been a bigger shift from the Tories amongst over 65s due to the freeze in the triple lock than amongst 25 to 49 year olds over the NI rise.
For the record I lived in a shared house in the West Midlands and Welsh border for most of my early 30s on an average salary.
You understand how marginal losses work though. Losing 38-35 is an election winning score for the Tories and implies a winning the top of the category (which you did). Losing 50-25 is Labour 300+ seats.
You can bang on about how a plurality of Tory voters support raising taxes on workers as much as you like, it's Boris' poll tax and it's going to lose you the election.
It isn't, if the Tories had not lost any votes from over 65s over the triple lock freeze, they would still have a clear enough lead for a narrow 1992 style majority even despite any losses from under 45s over the NI rise.
At the moment it is the triple lock freeze which will cost Boris his majority, not the NI rise. The big move has not been to Labour and the LDs but to RefUK and DK amongst the over 65s.
I warned about the dangers of not delivering the commitment to increase the triple lock on our core vote beforehand.
The NI rise is regrettable but necessary to fund extra funds for the NHS post Covid and social care and hopefully taxes in income can then be cut before the next general election
Sometimes governments have to do the right thing. We’ve borrowed a shed load of money, due to COVID. The over 65’s have to bear their share of the cost of adjustment.
Comments
Loving the entry-level snobbery about policemen, though. Which other occupations of the lower orders do you look down on?
In 1997 Blair even won over 65s so big was Labour's landslide but turnout was actually down on 1992. In 2019 even Corbyn won under 45s, so no it is pensioners and over 45s who post Brexit are the Tory core vote and they have to win again to be re elected. They won't win most under 45s anyway
Edit: I was once in a document review meeting where there was an argument about whether it should be 'what mode' or 'which mode'. It got rather heated ...
Maybe it is highlighted even more as my granddaughter went into her student accommodation in Leeds yesterday for her 5 year Japanese and Italian course and the tax rate for students in their early years is unacceptable
No matter it has to be about fairness, I am not a member of the conservative party, and therefore homeless so it is up to the other parties to make an offer that attracts me to vote for them
Remember, I have done it twice for Blair, as @HYUFD reminds everyone and according to him I am not a pure conservative
But anyway, my reference was to the director's cut of PB's fave movie. Check it out.
I look down on them all.
The verdict
We think Mr Farage has cut a few corners here: police intelligence isn’t the same as conviction rates; 28,000 arrests isn’t the same as 28,000 people; 7 per cent of criminal networks isn’t the same as 7 per cent of crime.
Nevertheless, we ought to say that the Ukip leader is not plucking these claims of criminality out of thin air. They are based on real statements put out by various police forces, some of whom have real concerns about the activities of Romanian wrongdoers.
Met figures show that Romanians are disproportionately more likely to be arrested compared with the citizens of many other countries.
And Ministry of Justice figures similarly show that while the number of Romanians in UK prisons has fallen slightly over the last year, the number still remains large as a percentage of the likely total Romanian population.
I mean I know it’s the best of the prequels but even so…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Musiala
(AFAIK that is a misrep of what Farage said, but I have not see his original words, only the James O Brien interview.)
https://www.libertatea.ro/sport/emma-raducanu-si-bianca-andreescu-in-calificari-la-wimbledon-2307142
And, yes, I think if you took a poor, poorly educated Chinese person and put them in a place where the easiest way to make money was crime, then yes, they would commit crime.
I suspect that the same would be true of Brits, etc.
(The change which the end of freedom of movement does bring is that it ends the Big Issue scam — bring over a dozen romanian gypsies, put them up in one house, steal their passports, get them selling the Big Issue, have them register as self employed, and thus eligible for working tax credits and child benefit etc.)
Less of a mouthful than Adullamite anyway
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median is very lucid.
Can someone cancel this guy please?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isnmepwH2Ks
Various things at play.
What did Farage say originally? Not sure.
Was James Bob trying to trap him (yes - it's James Bob) about distinctions around 'families' and 'gangs of men'?
Which were then choreographed into 'hates Rumanians'.
Plus lack of clarity about Roma vs Rumanians.
The exact linkage / truth is awkward to nail down.
Hence why mode and median are both the same answer, for the same reason. Since over half the population has 2 legs, 2 legs must by definition be both the modal (most common) and median (in the middle) average.
Mean average will be less than 2.
Unless your intention is to do away with the idea of tourism there's no reason why someone should fly into Dublin, drive to Belfast and get a ferry to Liverpool. They can just get a return flight from wherever they're coming from direct to Liverpool and simply 'forget' to get on the return flight.
The truth was it was a UKIP candidate that had made the remarks months earlier and been chucked out, stood at the election as an Indy and lost. I pulled O'Brien on it on twitter and he just set his soppy disciples out to bore me all day
On average how many legs does a spider have? The mean average would be less than 8, for the same reason the mean average for people is less than 2.
Median is perfectly legitimate use of the word average, it just depends upon circumstances which is more applicable and if you need to be specific you should probably specify which average you mean.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-09/california-seeks-to-avert-blackouts-by-burning-more-fossil-fuels
I found the test here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i4UDPSO2L6z_9gfrptSSTBTpEgvkgBSA/view
And I can't see how any white Brit wouldn't get a 100% White Privilege score.
What a fucking pointless and time wasting bit of virtue signalling.
22223456789 has a mode of 2 and a median of 4.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/dictionary.cambridge.org/amp/english/average
Most people I come across use mean/median to avoid confusion, but whenever they say “average” they are referring to the mean. And since language is about communication I’d recommend going with the flow.
If I was still editing PB I would be publishing a piece entitled.
'Is Covid-19 pandemic the only way to keep the United Kingdom together?'
A second referendum on Scottish independence will not be held until all day-to-day Covid restrictions have been lifted, Nicola Sturgeon has said.
The first minister has repeatedly pledged to hold another poll by the end of 2023, but only if the public health crisis is over.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/12/no-independence-referendum-until-covid-restrictions-lifted-sturgeon-says?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other