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Bet on Raducanu for SPOTY before tonight’s final – politicalbetting.com

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  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,056
    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Further on the Food & Drink Federation, here is one from last week.

    2/9/2021 £2bn fall in Exports in First Half Catastrophe:



    18/6/2021 £2bn fall in Exports in First Quarter Disaster



    Now, if those numbers are true exports are back to normal in the second quarter...

    Not only bullshitters, but woefully incompetent bullshitters.

    MEDIA.....STATISTICS...TOOOOOOO CONFUSING.....Unless you are Prof Peston, and then obviously he is more of an expert than every member of SAGE and iSAGE combined on every aspect of maths and science.
    Indeed statistics can be confusing. Per the FDF, there was a £2 billion fall in exports to the EU in Q1 and in a later press release a £2 billion fall in overall exports in H1 where a rise in non-EU exports failed to compensate for a fall in EU exports.
    The misleading part is omission. To not let the reader know that EU food & drink exports have rebounded to roughly pre-brexit levels:


  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    However, last night Children & the Arts said it had no idea that any money had come to it from Leus, that the letter had not been sent by it and that it was in the process of being wound up. It remains unclear what happened to Leus’s donation. He said he had not ruled out taking legal action.

    How is this different to the dodgy Lib Dem donation?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    On the subject of abortion and Texas (sorry I was asleep during the last thread), I can't help feel that the Supreme Court is working for the Democrats.

    Let's start with the obvious: legal abortion is broadly popular in the US. And once you include restrictions (only in the first trimester, exceptions for rape and incest, imminent danger to mother's health), then the gap becomes really big - almost at two-to-one.

    But let's forget about additional restrictions for a second and let's look at the question "do you think abortion should be legal in most circumstances". Fortunately, the good folks at Pew did state-by-state survey of the US. If you divide the country into three sets:

    Pro Choice - where legal in most circumstances beats out illegal in most circumstances by 7.5% or more
    Pro Life - where illegal in most circumstances is 7.5% or more ahead of legal
    In the Middle - where neither proposition has a meaningful lead

    Well, the Pro Choice states win the Presidency on their own. They get to 276 electoral college votes. The Pro Life states only manage 73 - all of them existing Republican strongholds.

    The Republican Party controls all three branches of Florida Government - they have the Governorship, the House, and the Senate. They are about to rush through a carbon copy of Texas's law.

    As is their right.

    In Florida, should be legal in most circumstances beats out should be illegal by seventeen percentage points. And - by the way - the Texas law does not contain any provisions for rape or incest, or if the mother's life is in danger.

    Assuming that Florida Republicans get their law through, this means that there will be headlines about girls who were raped who were unable to get abortions. There will be stories of women who commit suicide, because they were unable to get abortions. There will be stories about friends who drove people to abortion clinics in other states, who end up sued in court (as an aside, this falls so massively outside the interstate commerce clause of the US constitution, it should be enough to strike the Texas law down on its own).

    Basically, you know who's going to be motivated to vote in elections next time around: it'll be people who are broadly in favour of abortion.

    Roe vs Wade, as I've said many times before, should never have happened. States should have (and would have) legalisated abortion on their own. There would probably be some states today (Utah, Mississippi and a few others) where it was illegal, but in most states women would be able to get abortions.

    This was a massive recruiting sargeant for the Republicans - especially as they could argue it had been legalised by the back door.

    At the same time, many Pro Choice Republicans weren't that bothered: the Supreme Court covered their asses. (See Collins, Susan.)

    That all changes, and the only loser is the Republican Party.
  • Betfair's recovery was shorter than Labour's, and it's down again.
  • Its first game back with a full stadium for two seasons...so run out there with your head held high champ...

    https://twitter.com/AdamJardy/status/1436722232781381632?s=20
  • Carnyx said:

    Hmmm.

    Prince Charles wrote a gushing thank-you letter to a Russian businessman, offering to meet him, days after receiving a six-figure donation for his charity.

    When the gift was made in May last year, Charles told Dmitry Leus, 51, a banker seeking British citizenship, that he was “incredibly grateful” for his “immense generosity” to the Prince’s Foundation and that the money had given him “great comfort”......

    ....However, the money had to be returned months later after the Prince’s Foundation’s ethics committee raised concerns about the Russian’s background. Leus had been found guilty in Russia of money-laundering before having his conviction overturned.

    The prince is now fighting on numerous fronts after a regulator began an investigation of his charity’s dealings with Leus, and The Sunday Times uncovered evidence of possible deception involving his donations, which totalled £535,000.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-charles-offered-castle-meeting-to-murky-russian-donor-0xpc3v30k

    You don't suppose there is a campaign for King William V going on? The Times is supposed to be the establishment paper. It's not exactly the Morning Star.
    I added some more to the original post.

    The campaign for King William V seems to be run by Prince Charles with his shocking behaviour.
    Rupert Murdoch is not fond of the monarchy.
  • tlg86 said:

    However, last night Children & the Arts said it had no idea that any money had come to it from Leus, that the letter had not been sent by it and that it was in the process of being wound up. It remains unclear what happened to Leus’s donation. He said he had not ruled out taking legal action.

    How is this different to the dodgy Lib Dem donation?
    At the time Michael Brown donation was considered legitimate and then a few years later it was found out it was from a criminal but the Lib Dems had spent the money in good faith.

    Here the money was donated and then it became clear it was impermissible within weeks and sent back to the donor, who then donated it to another charity close to Prince Charles using a dodgy letter which the senders deny sending (or even writing.)
  • rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of abortion and Texas (sorry I was asleep during the last thread), I can't help feel that the Supreme Court is working for the Democrats.

    Let's start with the obvious: legal abortion is broadly popular in the US. And once you include restrictions (only in the first trimester, exceptions for rape and incest, imminent danger to mother's health), then the gap becomes really big - almost at two-to-one.

    But let's forget about additional restrictions for a second and let's look at the question "do you think abortion should be legal in most circumstances". Fortunately, the good folks at Pew did state-by-state survey of the US. If you divide the country into three sets:

    Pro Choice - where legal in most circumstances beats out illegal in most circumstances by 7.5% or more
    Pro Life - where illegal in most circumstances is 7.5% or more ahead of legal
    In the Middle - where neither proposition has a meaningful lead

    Well, the Pro Choice states win the Presidency on their own. They get to 276 electoral college votes. The Pro Life states only manage 73 - all of them existing Republican strongholds.

    The Republican Party controls all three branches of Florida Government - they have the Governorship, the House, and the Senate. They are about to rush through a carbon copy of Texas's law.

    As is their right.

    In Florida, should be legal in most circumstances beats out should be illegal by seventeen percentage points. And - by the way - the Texas law does not contain any provisions for rape or incest, or if the mother's life is in danger.

    Assuming that Florida Republicans get their law through, this means that there will be headlines about girls who were raped who were unable to get abortions. There will be stories of women who commit suicide, because they were unable to get abortions. There will be stories about friends who drove people to abortion clinics in other states, who end up sued in court (as an aside, this falls so massively outside the interstate commerce clause of the US constitution, it should be enough to strike the Texas law down on its own).

    Basically, you know who's going to be motivated to vote in elections next time around: it'll be people who are broadly in favour of abortion.

    Roe vs Wade, as I've said many times before, should never have happened. States should have (and would have) legalisated abortion on their own. There would probably be some states today (Utah, Mississippi and a few others) where it was illegal, but in most states women would be able to get abortions.

    This was a massive recruiting sargeant for the Republicans - especially as they could argue it had been legalised by the back door.

    At the same time, many Pro Choice Republicans weren't that bothered: the Supreme Court covered their asses. (See Collins, Susan.)

    That all changes, and the only loser is the Republican Party.

    Hope you are very right. Because at the moment the Rep party is not the Rep party, it is the 'reelect Trump, MAGA' party who if they win will destroy democracy in America.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286

    Betfair's recovery was shorter than Labour's, and it's down again.

    Is the problem the number of people trying to bet on tonight's tennis match?
  • Hmmm.

    Prince Charles wrote a gushing thank-you letter to a Russian businessman, offering to meet him, days after receiving a six-figure donation for his charity.

    When the gift was made in May last year, Charles told Dmitry Leus, 51, a banker seeking British citizenship, that he was “incredibly grateful” for his “immense generosity” to the Prince’s Foundation and that the money had given him “great comfort”......

    ....However, the money had to be returned months later after the Prince’s Foundation’s ethics committee raised concerns about the Russian’s background. Leus had been found guilty in Russia of money-laundering before having his conviction overturned.

    The prince is now fighting on numerous fronts after a regulator began an investigation of his charity’s dealings with Leus, and The Sunday Times uncovered evidence of possible deception involving his donations, which totalled £535,000.

    After it was decided that the gift could not be accepted by the Prince’s Foundation, Leus was told by its deputy executive director, Chris Martin, that the money had instead gone to another charity of which Charles is patron, Children & the Arts.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-charles-offered-castle-meeting-to-murky-russian-donor-0xpc3v30k

    Beware Russians bearing gifts (unless you are a political party in which case it's snouts in the trough).
  • Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587
    edited September 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:
    "I doubt Johnson can keep his bubble machine blowing out the myth that austerity is over. Whether it’s soaring food bank use from universal credit cuts or the NHS struggling with waiting times, sooner rather than later, enough voters will see through his make-believe politics."

    Polly Toynbee
    He could keep throwing in some super populist policies each election. I am convinced there will a restoration of capital punishment for cop killers and nonces before Johnson's tenure is finally up

    He doesn't believes that it is right, any more than I do. But if it keeps his dream alive, who cares?
    If that's what voters want, what's the problem? I wouldn't support it myself though.
    This is why we have a sovereign parliament. MPs should be smarter than us ( Richard Burgon excepted) and be voted in to do things on our behalf that we are too stupid to think through ourselves.

    When a government decides in order to preserve itself it offers the voters choices that it believes are in the grand-scheme sub-optimal, but deliberately pander to people's basest instincts, the system has failed.

    If restoration of capital punishment isn't controversial enough for you, where would you draw the line?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    "How bin Laden won
    The American empire is finally crumbling
    BY ARIS ROUSSINOS"

    https://unherd.com/2021/09/how-bin-ladens-prophesies-came-true/
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MattW said:

    Dethreaded !

    ’The food shortages being reported by a growing number of household names are likely to last forever, a leading industry figure has said in a stark warning to the government.

    Ian Wright, CEO of the Food & Drink Federation, said the system that for decades had meant British consumers could expect a full range of food or drink items in their supermarkets and restaurants was "over" and probably not coming back.

    A shortage of lorry drivers and workers elsewhere in supply chains, compounded by Brexit and the Covid pandemic, has triggered shortages of food and other items in recent weeks…’


    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/food-shortages-last-forever

    Story illustrated:



    By a photo of empty shelves caused by heavy snow in Blyth in 2017:



    Credible reporting from a credible source?

    (Personally, I suggest that the FDF are bullshitters, and PoliticsHome are either being lazy or incompetent if they did not check.)
    Isn’t Ian Wright an ex Labour MP and anti Brexit activist?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2021

    Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Pointed this out downthread....not only as thick as shit, but thinks he is smarter than the government scientists on every issue.

    What's worse, he never corrects the record / deletes those tweets, he just moves on to the next horseshit thing that pops into his head.
  • So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.
  • So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Will be watching the final season of Lucifer.
  • Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Christ almighty. Beyond comprehension. How many times would Peston have been told by medics, stats peeps and epidemiologists that most people in this age groups are now vaxxed so that is why they are appearing in the infection stats?

    Is he being deliberately obtuse just to get a clickbait hit for itv.com?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    edited September 2021

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    The Proms starts a couple of hours earlier I thought.
  • Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Pointed this out downthread....not only as thick as shit, but thinks he is smarter than the government scientists on every issue.
    He attended the University of Oxford, it explains everything.

    His comments on Covid-19 make his comments about photographs featuring mirrors look like Nobel Prize winning stuff.
  • Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Christ almighty. Beyond comprehension. How many times would Peston have been told by medics, stats peeps and epidemiologists that most people in this age groups are now vaxxed so that is why they are appearing in the infection stats?

    Is he being deliberately obtuse just to get a clickbait hit for itv.com?
    He's thick as mince.
  • Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Let's not forget when Julia HB put him under pressure over his allegedly failure to have a f*cking clue when asking questions:

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1486225/Robert-peston-julia-hartley-brewer-itv-latest-covid-press-conferences-boris-johnson-vn
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2021

    Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Pointed this out downthread....not only as thick as shit, but thinks he is smarter than the government scientists on every issue.
    He attended the University of Oxford, it explains everything.

    His comments on Covid-19 make his comments about photographs featuring mirrors look like Nobel Prize winning stuff.
    Another failing upwards...

    ITV’s Peston admits that ‘every day I stay in work as a middle-class white man is a bonus’ - and says his career probably wouldn’t get off the ground today

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9960383/Every-day-stay-work-middle-class-white-man-bonus-Robert-Peston-says.html

    Its his shear arrogance that gets me. Everybody makes a mistake, gets things wrong, but he actually believes he is incredibly well versed in maths and science...yet doesn't even understand the most basic things.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited September 2021
    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    Dethreaded !

    ’The food shortages being reported by a growing number of household names are likely to last forever, a leading industry figure has said in a stark warning to the government.

    Ian Wright, CEO of the Food & Drink Federation, said the system that for decades had meant British consumers could expect a full range of food or drink items in their supermarkets and restaurants was "over" and probably not coming back.

    A shortage of lorry drivers and workers elsewhere in supply chains, compounded by Brexit and the Covid pandemic, has triggered shortages of food and other items in recent weeks…’


    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/food-shortages-last-forever

    Story illustrated:



    By a photo of empty shelves caused by heavy snow in Blyth in 2017:



    Credible reporting from a credible source?

    (Personally, I suggest that the FDF are bullshitters, and PoliticsHome are either being lazy or incompetent if they did not check.)
    Isn’t Ian Wright an ex Labour MP and anti Brexit activist?
    Different Iain Wright.

    https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/movers/ian-wright-to-step-down-as-ceo-of-the-fdf/654186.article

    http://staticlive.icaew.com/speakers/iain-wright.html
  • Andy_JS said:

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    The Proms starts a couple of hours earlier I thought.
    That's how they trick you. Last Night of the Proms is a game of two halves and the singalong part is after the watershed (well, 9pm BBC 1). The first half is just posh music.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149

    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:
    "I doubt Johnson can keep his bubble machine blowing out the myth that austerity is over. Whether it’s soaring food bank use from universal credit cuts or the NHS struggling with waiting times, sooner rather than later, enough voters will see through his make-believe politics."

    Polly Toynbee
    He could keep throwing in some super populist policies each election. I am convinced there will a restoration of capital punishment for cop killers and nonces before Johnson's tenure is finally up

    He doesn't believes that it is right, any more than I do. But if it keeps his dream alive, who cares?
    If that's what voters want, what's the problem? I wouldn't support it myself though.
    This is why we have a sovereign parliament. MPs should be smarter than us ( Richard Burgon excepted) and be voted in to do things on our behalf that we are too stupid to think through ourselves.

    When a government decides in order to preserve itself it offers the voters choices that it believes are in the grand-scheme sub-optimal, but deliberately pander to people's basest instincts, the system has failed.

    If restoration of capital punishment isn't controversial enough for you, where would you draw the line?
    Hanging, drawing and quartering for treason?

    Burning at the stake for not conforming to the C of E? (Bit of an obvious problem there.)

    Having one single UK football team?

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149

    Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Christ almighty. Beyond comprehension. How many times would Peston have been told by medics, stats peeps and epidemiologists that most people in this age groups are now vaxxed so that is why they are appearing in the infection stats?

    Is he being deliberately obtuse just to get a clickbait hit for itv.com?
    He's thick as mince.
    Oh come! Nothing wrong with mince, when cooked with shallots and served with decent spuds and fresh peas.
  • Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Christ almighty. Beyond comprehension. How many times would Peston have been told by medics, stats peeps and epidemiologists that most people in this age groups are now vaxxed so that is why they are appearing in the infection stats?

    Is he being deliberately obtuse just to get a clickbait hit for itv.com?
    And yet like the editor of the lancet, will still be in their job despite displaying massive incompontence and spreading fake news.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Christ almighty. Beyond comprehension. How many times would Peston have been told by medics, stats peeps and epidemiologists that most people in this age groups are now vaxxed so that is why they are appearing in the infection stats?

    Is he being deliberately obtuse just to get a clickbait hit for itv.com?
    He's thick as mince.
    I disagree. I think he knows exactly what he's doing.
  • Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Pointed this out downthread....not only as thick as shit, but thinks he is smarter than the government scientists on every issue.
    He attended the University of Oxford, it explains everything.

    His comments on Covid-19 make his comments about photographs featuring mirrors look like Nobel Prize winning stuff.
    The traditional job of journalists is to know lots of people, not lots of facts. Peston's (or Marr's or Laura K's) value is the black book of Westminster and Whitehall contacts who provide gossip and stories, half of whom they shared university with.
  • Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Christ almighty. Beyond comprehension. How many times would Peston have been told by medics, stats peeps and epidemiologists that most people in this age groups are now vaxxed so that is why they are appearing in the infection stats?

    Is he being deliberately obtuse just to get a clickbait hit for itv.com?
    He's thick as mince.
    2nd class degree apparently. Another PPE.

    Maybe a public petition to close that degree course down would improve British public life immeasurably?

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,075

    Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Pointed this out downthread....not only as thick as shit, but thinks he is smarter than the government scientists on every issue.
    He attended the University of Oxford, it explains everything.

    His comments on Covid-19 make his comments about photographs featuring mirrors look like Nobel Prize winning stuff.
    Another failing upwards...

    ITV’s Peston admits that ‘every day I stay in work as a middle-class white man is a bonus’ - and says his career probably wouldn’t get off the ground today

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9960383/Every-day-stay-work-middle-class-white-man-bonus-Robert-Peston-says.html

    Its his shear arrogance that gets me. Everybody makes a mistake, gets things wrong, but he actually believes he is incredibly well versed in maths and science...yet doesn't even understand the most basic things.
    Having a father who was a Labour Lord certainly didn't harm his prospects! Is the son of a Lord really "middle class"?
  • So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
  • Carnyx said:

    Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Christ almighty. Beyond comprehension. How many times would Peston have been told by medics, stats peeps and epidemiologists that most people in this age groups are now vaxxed so that is why they are appearing in the infection stats?

    Is he being deliberately obtuse just to get a clickbait hit for itv.com?
    He's thick as mince.
    Oh come! Nothing wrong with mince, when cooked with shallots and served with decent spuds and fresh peas.
    True, lamb mince is a key staple of my diet.

    Mostly served with lots of spices.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2021
    tlg86 said:

    Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Christ almighty. Beyond comprehension. How many times would Peston have been told by medics, stats peeps and epidemiologists that most people in this age groups are now vaxxed so that is why they are appearing in the infection stats?

    Is he being deliberately obtuse just to get a clickbait hit for itv.com?
    He's thick as mince.
    I disagree. I think he knows exactly what he's doing.
    No....smart shit stirring leaves enough up to interuptation. The whole incident with chemicals and testing, having JVT completely dismantle him on his own show. Smart people wanting to push a narrative don't let themselves get in that situation of being totally owned on national telly....then have it happen again....
  • Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Pointed this out downthread....not only as thick as shit, but thinks he is smarter than the government scientists on every issue.

    What's worse, he never corrects the record / deletes those tweets, he just moves on to the next horseshit thing that pops into his head.
    Peston: "But I am surprised these statistics have received so little attention and have occasioned so little debate."


    Jeez. Has he being living under a rock for the last few months with absolutely no internet connection?
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,973

    Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Pointed this out downthread....not only as thick as shit, but thinks he is smarter than the government scientists on every issue.

    What's worse, he never corrects the record / deletes those tweets, he just moves on to the next horseshit thing that pops into his head.
    Peston: "But I am surprised these statistics have received so little attention and have occasioned so little debate."


    Jeez. Has he being living under a rock for the last few months with absolutely no internet connection?
    He really said that? There is no hope - and this guy is meant to be a high profile broadcaster
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,094
    edited September 2021
    carnforth said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Further on the Food & Drink Federation, here is one from last week.

    2/9/2021 £2bn fall in Exports in First Half Catastrophe:



    18/6/2021 £2bn fall in Exports in First Quarter Disaster



    Now, if those numbers are true exports are back to normal in the second quarter...

    Not only bullshitters, but woefully incompetent bullshitters.

    MEDIA.....STATISTICS...TOOOOOOO CONFUSING.....Unless you are Prof Peston, and then obviously he is more of an expert than every member of SAGE and iSAGE combined on every aspect of maths and science.
    Indeed statistics can be confusing. Per the FDF, there was a £2 billion fall in exports to the EU in Q1 and in a later press release a £2 billion fall in overall exports in H1 where a rise in non-EU exports failed to compensate for a fall in EU exports.
    The misleading part is omission. To not let the reader know that EU food & drink exports have rebounded to roughly pre-brexit levels:


    Thank-you. I think that rather nails it. It's misleading for them to claim "disaster" without also noting the recovery in Q2.

    An it would be fair to point out continuing challenges given the small 4% decline from 2018 and the changed border arrangements.

    Where did you get the pic - I was looking for something similar? I could only find it at twitter links.

    Though we should note that the FDF comparisons were with 2019.








  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Foxy said:

    Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Pointed this out downthread....not only as thick as shit, but thinks he is smarter than the government scientists on every issue.
    He attended the University of Oxford, it explains everything.

    His comments on Covid-19 make his comments about photographs featuring mirrors look like Nobel Prize winning stuff.
    Another failing upwards...

    ITV’s Peston admits that ‘every day I stay in work as a middle-class white man is a bonus’ - and says his career probably wouldn’t get off the ground today

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9960383/Every-day-stay-work-middle-class-white-man-bonus-Robert-Peston-says.html

    Its his shear arrogance that gets me. Everybody makes a mistake, gets things wrong, but he actually believes he is incredibly well versed in maths and science...yet doesn't even understand the most basic things.
    Having a father who was a Labour Lord certainly didn't harm his prospects! Is the son of a Lord really "middle class"?
    There's only arbiter of who is what class, just as there is only arbiter of who would belong to which 18th century political party. Speak his name three times, and...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Pointed this out downthread....not only as thick as shit, but thinks he is smarter than the government scientists on every issue.

    What's worse, he never corrects the record / deletes those tweets, he just moves on to the next horseshit thing that pops into his head.
    Peston: "But I am surprised these statistics have received so little attention and have occasioned so little debate."


    Jeez. Has he being living under a rock for the last few months with absolutely no internet connection?
    My parents have made a point of watching two doctors that appear just after 9am on BBC Breakfast on Saturday mornings. The lady in Edinburgh seemed exasperated explaining the reason again and brought up the example of wearing seatbelts as a comparison.
  • Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Pointed this out downthread....not only as thick as shit, but thinks he is smarter than the government scientists on every issue.

    What's worse, he never corrects the record / deletes those tweets, he just moves on to the next horseshit thing that pops into his head.
    Peston: "But I am surprised these statistics have received so little attention and have occasioned so little debate."


    Jeez. Has he being living under a rock for the last few months with absolutely no internet connection?
    No no no, you have it all wrong, he is incredibly keen on maths and science and is constantly reading about the subject such that he is ahead of the curve compared to the government and their covid advisors.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    There is ONE bar open in Zurich international; terminal 1. Saturday evening. 7.45pm.

    One

    Be careful guys, it’s still hell out there
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,748

    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:
    "I doubt Johnson can keep his bubble machine blowing out the myth that austerity is over. Whether it’s soaring food bank use from universal credit cuts or the NHS struggling with waiting times, sooner rather than later, enough voters will see through his make-believe politics."

    Polly Toynbee
    He could keep throwing in some super populist policies each election. I am convinced there will a restoration of capital punishment for cop killers and nonces before Johnson's tenure is finally up

    He doesn't believes that it is right, any more than I do. But if it keeps his dream alive, who cares?
    If that's what voters want, what's the problem? I wouldn't support it myself though.
    This is why we have a sovereign parliament. MPs should be smarter than us ( Richard Burgon excepted) and be voted in to do things on our behalf that we are too stupid to think through ourselves.

    When a government decides in order to preserve itself it offers the voters choices that it believes are in the grand-scheme sub-optimal, but deliberately pander to people's basest instincts, the system has failed.

    If restoration of capital punishment isn't controversial enough for you, where would you draw the line?
    In recent years, this idea is no longer true. Many MP's coming through the system do not come across as being particularly smart at all, the classic example of this is Nick Clegg being replaced by Jared O'Mara. The smart people avoid politics nowadays, The Elite politicians are being replaced by hobbyist activists and veteran local councillors who are causing untold amounts of chaos.

    There is an idea that elitism is a bad thing; I don't agree when it comes to representative democracy.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2021
    Leon said:

    There is ONE bar open in Zurich international; terminal 1. Saturday evening. 7.45pm.

    One

    Be careful guys, it’s still hell out there

    You not got access a the first class lounge? Having to slum it with the plebs.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,056
    MattW said:

    carnforth said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Further on the Food & Drink Federation, here is one from last week.

    2/9/2021 £2bn fall in Exports in First Half Catastrophe:



    18/6/2021 £2bn fall in Exports in First Quarter Disaster



    Now, if those numbers are true exports are back to normal in the second quarter...

    Not only bullshitters, but woefully incompetent bullshitters.

    MEDIA.....STATISTICS...TOOOOOOO CONFUSING.....Unless you are Prof Peston, and then obviously he is more of an expert than every member of SAGE and iSAGE combined on every aspect of maths and science.
    Indeed statistics can be confusing. Per the FDF, there was a £2 billion fall in exports to the EU in Q1 and in a later press release a £2 billion fall in overall exports in H1 where a rise in non-EU exports failed to compensate for a fall in EU exports.
    The misleading part is omission. To not let the reader know that EU food & drink exports have rebounded to roughly pre-brexit levels:


    Thank-you. I think that rather nails it. It's misleading for them to claim "disaster" without also noting the recovery in Q2.

    An it would be fair to point out continuing challenges given the small 4% decline from 2018 and the changed border arrangements.

    Where did you get the pic - I was looking for something similar? I could only find it at twitter links.

    Though we should note that the FDF comparisons were with 2019.








    I’m afraid it came from Twitter.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
    As is, equally, a hand wringing series of articles in the guardian saying ‘how can we let this jingoistic Rule Britannia nonsense go on’

    They are as predictable as Daily Mail photos of hot teen girls jumping up and down, celebrating their A Level results

    And both are as British as, well, the Last Night of the Proms
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,415
    edited September 2021
    My take on SPOTY - The broadcasters (bbc) and presenters are a lot more woke than the voters so even though Daley will be fawned over and hundreds of references to him being gay and how great that a gay man wins a diving comp he will not win. Funny enough wokeness is also pro tennis and hence overegged by the likes of the BBC so i think Raducanu will have to win the US open to win the award . A lot of voters have got used to Brit/England winning at things so it would be a bit shameful to go back to giving it to somebody for a good try.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Nigelb said:
    "I doubt Johnson can keep his bubble machine blowing out the myth that austerity is over. Whether it’s soaring food bank use from universal credit cuts or the NHS struggling with waiting times, sooner rather than later, enough voters will see through his make-believe politics."

    Polly Toynbee
    Switch Johnson for May or Cameron…or Major… or Thatcher and you have a Polly column from any time in the last 30+ years
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:
    "I doubt Johnson can keep his bubble machine blowing out the myth that austerity is over. Whether it’s soaring food bank use from universal credit cuts or the NHS struggling with waiting times, sooner rather than later, enough voters will see through his make-believe politics."

    Polly Toynbee
    He could keep throwing in some super populist policies each election. I am convinced there will a restoration of capital punishment for cop killers and nonces before Johnson's tenure is finally up

    He doesn't believes that it is right, any more than I do. But if it keeps his dream alive, who cares?
    If that's what voters want, what's the problem? I wouldn't support it myself though.
    This is why we have a sovereign parliament. MPs should be smarter than us ( Richard Burgon excepted) and be voted in to do things on our behalf that we are too stupid to think through ourselves.

    When a government decides in order to preserve itself it offers the voters choices that it believes are in the grand-scheme sub-optimal, but deliberately pander to people's basest instincts, the system has failed.

    If restoration of capital punishment isn't controversial enough for you, where would you draw the line?
    In recent years, this idea is no longer true. Many MP's coming through the system do not come across as being particularly smart at all, the classic example of this is Nick Clegg being replaced by Jared O'Mara. The smart people avoid politics nowadays, The Elite politicians are being replaced by hobbyist activists and veteran local councillors who are causing untold amounts of chaos.

    There is an idea that elitism is a bad thing; I don't agree when it comes to representative democracy.

    Part of the problem is being high-profile helps you, even if you're high profile for being a complete plank.
    Which political party hasn't had an attention seeking moron as leader in the last few years? There are better people out there. I'll say it again there are better people out there. But people love their clickbait, and their controversy and pwning the other side and all that crap. Whereas you should be thinking carefully about your vote and being prepared to change your mind.

    The argument for elites being better is tempting when you think of O'Mara, but I'll see your Jared and raise you a Jacob Rees-Mogg.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,577

    Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Pointed this out downthread....not only as thick as shit, but thinks he is smarter than the government scientists on every issue.
    He attended the University of Oxford, it explains everything.

    His comments on Covid-19 make his comments about photographs featuring mirrors look like Nobel Prize winning stuff.
    No, it doesn't.
    I attended, too. Though they did kick me out a couple of times.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268

    Leon said:

    There is ONE bar open in Zurich international; terminal 1. Saturday evening. 7.45pm.

    One

    Be careful guys, it’s still hell out there

    You not got access a the first class lounge? Having to slum it with the plebs.
    Swissair kindly bought my flights. But yes. Prole class.

    That said I estimate this trip would have cost something like £7,000 for 6 days, if I’d been unfortunate enough to be ponying up my own wonga
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    "@GoodwinMJ

    Michel Barnier calls for a national referendum on immigration & for France to regain its “legal sovereignty in order to no longer be subject to the judgments” of the European Courts. Monsieur Cherry Picker!"

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1436655468991197191
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MattW said:

    Further on the Food & Drink Federation, here is one from last week.

    2/9/2021 £2bn fall in Exports in First Half Catastrophe:



    18/6/2021 £2bn fall in Exports in First Quarter Disaster



    Now, if those numbers are true exports are back to normal in the second quarter...

    Not only bullshitters, but woefully incompetent bullshitters.

    But it was only a disaster in Q1 and a catastrophe in Q2…
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There is ONE bar open in Zurich international; terminal 1. Saturday evening. 7.45pm.

    One

    Be careful guys, it’s still hell out there

    You not got access a the first class lounge? Having to slum it with the plebs.
    Swissair kindly bought my flights. But yes. Prole class.

    That said I estimate this trip would have cost something like £7,000 for 6 days, if I’d been unfortunate enough to be ponying up my own wonga
    Where can we read your piece, or is it behind a firewall?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    Leon said:

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
    As is, equally, a hand wringing series of articles in the guardian saying ‘how can we let this jingoistic Rule Britannia nonsense go on’

    They are as predictable as Daily Mail photos of hot teen girls jumping up and down, celebrating their A Level results

    And both are as British as, well, the Last Night of the Proms
    The thing I never understand about the Last Night angst, the Boat Race etc etc is that it is such a small part of national life - you can ignore it trivially.

    Mind you, there is nothing quite like watching idiots marooning their cars in the Thames, by parking on boat ramps without permission, while seated in a good pub. There is something very calming about sipping a pint and watching the water crawling towards the morons Chelsea tractor......
  • What journalist has had a good COVID and not shown themselves up as a total moron for whom Bayes Theorem is just beyond their intellectual capabilities?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There is ONE bar open in Zurich international; terminal 1. Saturday evening. 7.45pm.

    One

    Be careful guys, it’s still hell out there

    You not got access a the first class lounge? Having to slum it with the plebs.
    Swissair kindly bought my flights. But yes. Prole class.

    That said I estimate this trip would have cost something like £7,000 for 6 days, if I’d been unfortunate enough to be ponying up my own wonga
    Where can we read your piece, or is it behind a firewall?
    I fear the dildo knappers gazette is indeed paywalled. Soz
  • Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Pointed this out downthread....not only as thick as shit, but thinks he is smarter than the government scientists on every issue.

    What's worse, he never corrects the record / deletes those tweets, he just moves on to the next horseshit thing that pops into his head.
    Peston: "But I am surprised these statistics have received so little attention and have occasioned so little debate."


    Jeez. Has he being living under a rock for the last few months with absolutely no internet connection?
    He really said that? There is no hope - and this guy is meant to be a high profile broadcaster
    Makes you wonder about the years of business reporting.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Andy_JS said:

    "@GoodwinMJ

    Michel Barnier calls for a national referendum on immigration & for France to regain its “legal sovereignty in order to no longer be subject to the judgments” of the European Courts. Monsieur Cherry Picker!"

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1436655468991197191

    That’s hilarious. If he wins. That’s basically Frexit
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Pointed this out downthread....not only as thick as shit, but thinks he is smarter than the government scientists on every issue.

    What's worse, he never corrects the record / deletes those tweets, he just moves on to the next horseshit thing that pops into his head.
    Peston: "But I am surprised these statistics have received so little attention and have occasioned so little debate."


    Jeez. Has he being living under a rock for the last few months with absolutely no internet connection?
    They haven't been debated by Professor Peston (FRS, DipSHit) and his dinner party chums. Therefore they haven't been seen by Real People. Just by a bunch of statistical experts, medical experts, etc. They aren't... Really Real.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268

    Leon said:

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
    As is, equally, a hand wringing series of articles in the guardian saying ‘how can we let this jingoistic Rule Britannia nonsense go on’

    They are as predictable as Daily Mail photos of hot teen girls jumping up and down, celebrating their A Level results

    And both are as British as, well, the Last Night of the Proms
    The thing I never understand about the Last Night angst, the Boat Race etc etc is that it is such a small part of national life - you can ignore it trivially.

    Mind you, there is nothing quite like watching idiots marooning their cars in the Thames, by parking on boat ramps without permission, while seated in a good pub. There is something very calming about sipping a pint and watching the water crawling towards the morons Chelsea tractor......
    The guardian publishes this wank because their idiot readers lap it up. Every year. Without fail. It’s no better or worse than another express article about sizzling weather or princess diana
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There is ONE bar open in Zurich international; terminal 1. Saturday evening. 7.45pm.

    One

    Be careful guys, it’s still hell out there

    You not got access a the first class lounge? Having to slum it with the plebs.
    Swissair kindly bought my flights. But yes. Prole class.

    That said I estimate this trip would have cost something like £7,000 for 6 days, if I’d been unfortunate enough to be ponying up my own wonga
    Genuine question, if one had come into a decent amount of money selling shovels to idiots buying NFTs, would you recommend a trip there? Asking for a friend.
  • Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Pointed this out downthread....not only as thick as shit, but thinks he is smarter than the government scientists on every issue.

    What's worse, he never corrects the record / deletes those tweets, he just moves on to the next horseshit thing that pops into his head.
    Peston: "But I am surprised these statistics have received so little attention and have occasioned so little debate."


    Jeez. Has he being living under a rock for the last few months with absolutely no internet connection?
    He really said that? There is no hope - and this guy is meant to be a high profile broadcaster
    Makes you wonder about the years of business reporting.

    Wasn't most of that just copy pasting whatever his mates like Gordon Brown and Ed Balls had emailed him?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@GoodwinMJ

    Michel Barnier calls for a national referendum on immigration & for France to regain its “legal sovereignty in order to no longer be subject to the judgments” of the European Courts. Monsieur Cherry Picker!"

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1436655468991197191

    That’s hilarious. If he wins. That’s basically Frexit
    Nah, he's just saying it to try to get elected. He won't actually do anything to try to implement it should he win. He'll be 71 by the time of the election so he'd unlikely to want a second term. Five years of being President would do him nicely.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There is ONE bar open in Zurich international; terminal 1. Saturday evening. 7.45pm.

    One

    Be careful guys, it’s still hell out there

    You not got access a the first class lounge? Having to slum it with the plebs.
    Swissair kindly bought my flights. But yes. Prole class.

    That said I estimate this trip would have cost something like £7,000 for 6 days, if I’d been unfortunate enough to be ponying up my own wonga
    Genuine question, if one had come into a decent amount of money selling shovels to idiots buying NFTs, would you recommend a trip?
    Absolutely, but only if you are loaded. It is insanely pricey. Once you get beyond that it is a lovely country.

    The food is still highly variable - it’s much much better in the Italian south (where it is world class)

    Great Swiss hotels are some of the greatest hotels in the world (this is true across the country). They have been doing tourism longer than anyone on earth - and it shows
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    Robert Peston really is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1436742738729443330

    He spreads more fake news than a Russian troll factory.

    Pointed this out downthread....not only as thick as shit, but thinks he is smarter than the government scientists on every issue.

    What's worse, he never corrects the record / deletes those tweets, he just moves on to the next horseshit thing that pops into his head.
    Peston: "But I am surprised these statistics have received so little attention and have occasioned so little debate."


    Jeez. Has he being living under a rock for the last few months with absolutely no internet connection?
    He really said that? There is no hope - and this guy is meant to be a high profile broadcaster
    Makes you wonder about the years of business reporting.

    Wasn't most of that just copy pasting whatever his mates like Gordon Brown and Ed Balls had emailed him?
    https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2021/01/18/gell-mann-amnesia/
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587
    Andy_JS said:

    "@GoodwinMJ

    Michel Barnier calls for a national referendum on immigration & for France to regain its “legal sovereignty in order to no longer be subject to the judgments” of the European Courts. Monsieur Cherry Picker!"

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1436655468991197191

    Isn't this specifically related to inbound EU migration, and that France should not be obliged to take X% of immigrants from outside the EU. Cakeism granted, but not the "Barnier wants Frexit because he is so impressed with Brexit" narrative we get here, every time the issue is mentioned.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,722
    rcs1000 said:

    And - by the way - the Texas law does not contain any provisions for rape or incest, or if the mother's life is in danger.

    I'm not sure that's right. My understanding is that there is an exemption if the mother's life is in danger

  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    tlg86 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@GoodwinMJ

    Michel Barnier calls for a national referendum on immigration & for France to regain its “legal sovereignty in order to no longer be subject to the judgments” of the European Courts. Monsieur Cherry Picker!"

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1436655468991197191

    That’s hilarious. If he wins. That’s basically Frexit
    Nah, he's just saying it to try to get elected. He won't actually do anything to try to implement it should he win. He'll be 71 by the time of the election so he'd unlikely to want a second term. Five years of being President would do him nicely.
    Dunno. It’s quite a big promise. He’d have to do ‘something’ or he’d look a total idiot. I get the sense M Barnier does not like appearing an idiot

    He’s a real threat to macron, surely
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268

    Andy_JS said:

    "@GoodwinMJ

    Michel Barnier calls for a national referendum on immigration & for France to regain its “legal sovereignty in order to no longer be subject to the judgments” of the European Courts. Monsieur Cherry Picker!"

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1436655468991197191

    Isn't this specifically related to inbound EU migration, and that France should not be obliged to take X% of immigrants from outside the EU. Cakeism granted, but not the "Barnier wants Frexit because he is so impressed with Brexit" narrative we get here, every time the issue is mentioned.
    Saying that he wants French law to be supreme over EU law is definitely Frexit. But I doubt he said precisely that
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149

    Leon said:

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
    As is, equally, a hand wringing series of articles in the guardian saying ‘how can we let this jingoistic Rule Britannia nonsense go on’

    They are as predictable as Daily Mail photos of hot teen girls jumping up and down, celebrating their A Level results

    And both are as British as, well, the Last Night of the Proms
    The thing I never understand about the Last Night angst, the Boat Race etc etc is that it is such a small part of national life - you can ignore it trivially.

    Mind you, there is nothing quite like watching idiots marooning their cars in the Thames, by parking on boat ramps without permission, while seated in a good pub. There is something very calming about sipping a pint and watching the water crawling towards the morons Chelsea tractor......
    Or the foreshore at Bosham.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    Andy_JS said:

    "@GoodwinMJ

    Michel Barnier calls for a national referendum on immigration & for France to regain its “legal sovereignty in order to no longer be subject to the judgments” of the European Courts. Monsieur Cherry Picker!"

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1436655468991197191

    Isn't this specifically related to inbound EU migration, and that France should not be obliged to take X% of immigrants from outside the EU. Cakeism granted, but not the "Barnier wants Frexit because he is so impressed with Brexit" narrative we get here, every time the issue is mentioned.
    In the 80s and 90s there was a strain in French politics, not always of the Right, that said that the EEC (and then EU) needed to be a protectionist superpower, to preserve "European values" in the emerging global world. Essentially extending traditional French state intervention to the continental scale....
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    Raducanu 4/7
    Fernandez 6/4

    Fernandez the higher-ranked player. A bit of patriotism in the betting?

    Fernandez should be favourite, surely?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,415
    edited September 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
    As is, equally, a hand wringing series of articles in the guardian saying ‘how can we let this jingoistic Rule Britannia nonsense go on’

    They are as predictable as Daily Mail photos of hot teen girls jumping up and down, celebrating their A Level results

    And both are as British as, well, the Last Night of the Proms
    The thing I never understand about the Last Night angst, the Boat Race etc etc is that it is such a small part of national life - you can ignore it trivially.

    Mind you, there is nothing quite like watching idiots marooning their cars in the Thames, by parking on boat ramps without permission, while seated in a good pub. There is something very calming about sipping a pint and watching the water crawling towards the morons Chelsea tractor......
    The guardian publishes this wank because their idiot readers lap it up. Every year. Without fail. It’s no better or worse than another express article about sizzling weather or princess diana
    Not sure why the Guardian is so anti Last Night of the Prom or indeed the Boat race given the average reader of of their paper is a lot more likely to participate or watch either than the average bloke or gal-Perhaps a case of Robert Peston levels of self loathing (with his krap about being a middle aged white man and so lucky to be in a job there of )
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,075
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
    As is, equally, a hand wringing series of articles in the guardian saying ‘how can we let this jingoistic Rule Britannia nonsense go on’

    They are as predictable as Daily Mail photos of hot teen girls jumping up and down, celebrating their A Level results

    And both are as British as, well, the Last Night of the Proms
    The thing I never understand about the Last Night angst, the Boat Race etc etc is that it is such a small part of national life - you can ignore it trivially.

    Mind you, there is nothing quite like watching idiots marooning their cars in the Thames, by parking on boat ramps without permission, while seated in a good pub. There is something very calming about sipping a pint and watching the water crawling towards the morons Chelsea tractor......
    The guardian publishes this wank because their idiot readers lap it up. Every year. Without fail. It’s no better or worse than another express article about sizzling weather or princess diana
    I haven't seen anything on it in the Guardian today. Could you direct me to it?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,745
    Forum research poll from Canada:

    https://poll.forumresearch.com/data/b0cc5e28-d576-46fd-8376-ac0df5c8fe95Federal Election Poll - Sept 11th 2021.pdf

    Lot of volatility in the Canadian polls currently. Note the big jump in support for Bernier (NOT Barnier) and the People's Party of Canada. Liberals just ahead in Ontario but BQ leading in Quebec.

    Some very different numbers than in other polls.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Betfair's recovery was shorter than Labour's, and it's down again.

    Is the problem the number of people trying to bet on tonight's tennis match?
    Too early for that. We will never be told because although the big tech companies are invariably open about what crashed and why, ordinary companies hide behind false claims of "planned maintenance".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
    As is, equally, a hand wringing series of articles in the guardian saying ‘how can we let this jingoistic Rule Britannia nonsense go on’

    They are as predictable as Daily Mail photos of hot teen girls jumping up and down, celebrating their A Level results

    And both are as British as, well, the Last Night of the Proms
    The thing I never understand about the Last Night angst, the Boat Race etc etc is that it is such a small part of national life - you can ignore it trivially.

    Mind you, there is nothing quite like watching idiots marooning their cars in the Thames, by parking on boat ramps without permission, while seated in a good pub. There is something very calming about sipping a pint and watching the water crawling towards the morons Chelsea tractor......
    The guardian publishes this wank because their idiot readers lap it up. Every year. Without fail. It’s no better or worse than another express article about sizzling weather or princess diana
    Not sure why the Guardian is so anti Last Night of the Prom or indeed the Boat race given the average reader of of their paper is a lot more likely to participate or watch either than the average bloke or gal
    It's a bit like Illegal! Immigrants! Do! Stuff! in the Daily Mail. Gets the steam up in the comment section....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
    As is, equally, a hand wringing series of articles in the guardian saying ‘how can we let this jingoistic Rule Britannia nonsense go on’

    They are as predictable as Daily Mail photos of hot teen girls jumping up and down, celebrating their A Level results

    And both are as British as, well, the Last Night of the Proms
    The thing I never understand about the Last Night angst, the Boat Race etc etc is that it is such a small part of national life - you can ignore it trivially.

    Mind you, there is nothing quite like watching idiots marooning their cars in the Thames, by parking on boat ramps without permission, while seated in a good pub. There is something very calming about sipping a pint and watching the water crawling towards the morons Chelsea tractor......
    The guardian publishes this wank because their idiot readers lap it up. Every year. Without fail. It’s no better or worse than another express article about sizzling weather or princess diana
    I haven't seen anything on it in the Guardian today. Could you direct me to it?
    It worries me that you’re a doctor. You’re not the brightest


    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/sep/10/rewrite-rule-britannia-what-would-you-do-with-the-last-night-of-the-proms?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,722
    Sky News just showed a video of Trump talking to some New York cops. He basically all but confirmed he's going to run in 2024.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2021
    Brits taking over the US Open tennis...

    Women's Final, two in the mens doubles final (Salisbury won), Salisbury one set up in mixed doubles final at the moment and Brit also in the final of men's wheelchair final and Brits still in wheelchair doubles, and got to semi-final in women's wheelchair.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    edited September 2021

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
    As is, equally, a hand wringing series of articles in the guardian saying ‘how can we let this jingoistic Rule Britannia nonsense go on’

    They are as predictable as Daily Mail photos of hot teen girls jumping up and down, celebrating their A Level results

    And both are as British as, well, the Last Night of the Proms
    The thing I never understand about the Last Night angst, the Boat Race etc etc is that it is such a small part of national life - you can ignore it trivially.

    Mind you, there is nothing quite like watching idiots marooning their cars in the Thames, by parking on boat ramps without permission, while seated in a good pub. There is something very calming about sipping a pint and watching the water crawling towards the morons Chelsea tractor......
    The guardian publishes this wank because their idiot readers lap it up. Every year. Without fail. It’s no better or worse than another express article about sizzling weather or princess diana
    Not sure why the Guardian is so anti Last Night of the Prom or indeed the Boat race given the average reader of of their paper is a lot more likely to participate or watch either than the average bloke or gal-Perhaps a case of Robert Peston levels of self loathing (with his krap about being a middle aged white man and so lucky to be in a job there of )
    Not sure many Guardian readers could bear to watch Last Night of the Proms. I couldn't and I'm not a Guardian reader.
  • Stocky said:

    Raducanu 4/7
    Fernandez 6/4

    Fernandez the higher-ranked player. A bit of patriotism in the betting?

    Fernandez should be favourite, surely?

    Its a global market, with pinnacle the biggest bookmaker and they are banned in the UK. Very tough game to price and think it could be closer to choice but its not based on patriotic money.
  • Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There is ONE bar open in Zurich international; terminal 1. Saturday evening. 7.45pm.

    One

    Be careful guys, it’s still hell out there

    You not got access a the first class lounge? Having to slum it with the plebs.
    Swissair kindly bought my flights. But yes. Prole class.

    That said I estimate this trip would have cost something like £7,000 for 6 days, if I’d been unfortunate enough to be ponying up my own wonga
    Where can we read your piece, or is it behind a firewall?
    I fear the dildo knappers gazette is indeed paywalled. Soz
    Knapping seems to be a very international occupation.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,722
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
    As is, equally, a hand wringing series of articles in the guardian saying ‘how can we let this jingoistic Rule Britannia nonsense go on’

    They are as predictable as Daily Mail photos of hot teen girls jumping up and down, celebrating their A Level results

    And both are as British as, well, the Last Night of the Proms
    The thing I never understand about the Last Night angst, the Boat Race etc etc is that it is such a small part of national life - you can ignore it trivially.

    Mind you, there is nothing quite like watching idiots marooning their cars in the Thames, by parking on boat ramps without permission, while seated in a good pub. There is something very calming about sipping a pint and watching the water crawling towards the morons Chelsea tractor......
    The guardian publishes this wank because their idiot readers lap it up. Every year. Without fail. It’s no better or worse than another express article about sizzling weather or princess diana
    I haven't seen anything on it in the Guardian today. Could you direct me to it?
    Lol, yeah, I read the Guardian every day, and I had no idea today was The Last Night of the Proms!
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,415
    edited September 2021
    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
    As is, equally, a hand wringing series of articles in the guardian saying ‘how can we let this jingoistic Rule Britannia nonsense go on’

    They are as predictable as Daily Mail photos of hot teen girls jumping up and down, celebrating their A Level results

    And both are as British as, well, the Last Night of the Proms
    The thing I never understand about the Last Night angst, the Boat Race etc etc is that it is such a small part of national life - you can ignore it trivially.

    Mind you, there is nothing quite like watching idiots marooning their cars in the Thames, by parking on boat ramps without permission, while seated in a good pub. There is something very calming about sipping a pint and watching the water crawling towards the morons Chelsea tractor......
    The guardian publishes this wank because their idiot readers lap it up. Every year. Without fail. It’s no better or worse than another express article about sizzling weather or princess diana
    Not sure why the Guardian is so anti Last Night of the Prom or indeed the Boat race given the average reader of of their paper is a lot more likely to participate or watch either than the average bloke or gal-Perhaps a case of Robert Peston levels of self loathing (with his krap about being a middle aged white man and so lucky to be in a job there of )
    Not sure many Guardian readers could bear to watch Last Night of the Prom. I couldn't and I'm not a Guardian reader.
    Of course they do , so they can secretly like it and then write how awfullly white and middle class it is. A bit like when undercover reporters used to act shocked when they did (numerous) undercover visits to sex shows in Soho in the 1960s 70s
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,455
    edited September 2021
    CatMan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
    As is, equally, a hand wringing series of articles in the guardian saying ‘how can we let this jingoistic Rule Britannia nonsense go on’

    They are as predictable as Daily Mail photos of hot teen girls jumping up and down, celebrating their A Level results

    And both are as British as, well, the Last Night of the Proms
    The thing I never understand about the Last Night angst, the Boat Race etc etc is that it is such a small part of national life - you can ignore it trivially.

    Mind you, there is nothing quite like watching idiots marooning their cars in the Thames, by parking on boat ramps without permission, while seated in a good pub. There is something very calming about sipping a pint and watching the water crawling towards the morons Chelsea tractor......
    The guardian publishes this wank because their idiot readers lap it up. Every year. Without fail. It’s no better or worse than another express article about sizzling weather or princess diana
    I haven't seen anything on it in the Guardian today. Could you direct me to it?
    Lol, yeah, I read the Guardian every day, and I had no idea today was The Last Night of the Proms!
    What is the proms thing you all talk of about anyway? Is there much betting?
  • CatMan said:

    Sky News just showed a video of Trump talking to some New York cops. He basically all but confirmed he's going to run in 2024.

    We probably assumed that Trump will run but keep in mind that MRDA because ruling out another campaign would mean he has to stop fundraising.
  • CatMan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
    As is, equally, a hand wringing series of articles in the guardian saying ‘how can we let this jingoistic Rule Britannia nonsense go on’

    They are as predictable as Daily Mail photos of hot teen girls jumping up and down, celebrating their A Level results

    And both are as British as, well, the Last Night of the Proms
    The thing I never understand about the Last Night angst, the Boat Race etc etc is that it is such a small part of national life - you can ignore it trivially.

    Mind you, there is nothing quite like watching idiots marooning their cars in the Thames, by parking on boat ramps without permission, while seated in a good pub. There is something very calming about sipping a pint and watching the water crawling towards the morons Chelsea tractor......
    The guardian publishes this wank because their idiot readers lap it up. Every year. Without fail. It’s no better or worse than another express article about sizzling weather or princess diana
    I haven't seen anything on it in the Guardian today. Could you direct me to it?
    Lol, yeah, I read the Guardian every day, and I had no idea today was The Last Night of the Proms!
    Likewise.

    Anyway they have f*cked up at the Proms cos everyone else will be watching tennis tonight.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,722

    CatMan said:

    Sky News just showed a video of Trump talking to some New York cops. He basically all but confirmed he's going to run in 2024.

    We probably assumed that Trump will run but keep in mind that MRDA because ruling out another campaign would mean he has to stop fundraising.
    Yes, he mentioned in the video that he couldn't say because of fundraising laws.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    CatMan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
    As is, equally, a hand wringing series of articles in the guardian saying ‘how can we let this jingoistic Rule Britannia nonsense go on’

    They are as predictable as Daily Mail photos of hot teen girls jumping up and down, celebrating their A Level results

    And both are as British as, well, the Last Night of the Proms
    The thing I never understand about the Last Night angst, the Boat Race etc etc is that it is such a small part of national life - you can ignore it trivially.

    Mind you, there is nothing quite like watching idiots marooning their cars in the Thames, by parking on boat ramps without permission, while seated in a good pub. There is something very calming about sipping a pint and watching the water crawling towards the morons Chelsea tractor......
    The guardian publishes this wank because their idiot readers lap it up. Every year. Without fail. It’s no better or worse than another express article about sizzling weather or princess diana
    I haven't seen anything on it in the Guardian today. Could you direct me to it?
    Lol, yeah, I read the Guardian every day, and I had no idea today was The Last Night of the Proms!
    You don’t read it very diligently. They’ve actually got TWO articles about LNOTP

    This one is a review of their own coverage over the years, with a helpful reference to ‘the Nuremberg Rallies’

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/sep/10/a-jolly-revel-or-britains-answer-to-a-nuremberg-rally-how-the-guardian-has-reviewed-the-last-night-of-the-proms?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Leon said:

    CatMan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
    As is, equally, a hand wringing series of articles in the guardian saying ‘how can we let this jingoistic Rule Britannia nonsense go on’

    They are as predictable as Daily Mail photos of hot teen girls jumping up and down, celebrating their A Level results

    And both are as British as, well, the Last Night of the Proms
    The thing I never understand about the Last Night angst, the Boat Race etc etc is that it is such a small part of national life - you can ignore it trivially.

    Mind you, there is nothing quite like watching idiots marooning their cars in the Thames, by parking on boat ramps without permission, while seated in a good pub. There is something very calming about sipping a pint and watching the water crawling towards the morons Chelsea tractor......
    The guardian publishes this wank because their idiot readers lap it up. Every year. Without fail. It’s no better or worse than another express article about sizzling weather or princess diana
    I haven't seen anything on it in the Guardian today. Could you direct me to it?
    Lol, yeah, I read the Guardian every day, and I had no idea today was The Last Night of the Proms!
    This one is a review of their own coverage over the years, with a helpful reference to ‘the Nuremberg Rallies’
    How creative!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There is ONE bar open in Zurich international; terminal 1. Saturday evening. 7.45pm.

    One

    Be careful guys, it’s still hell out there

    You not got access a the first class lounge? Having to slum it with the plebs.
    Swissair kindly bought my flights. But yes. Prole class.

    That said I estimate this trip would have cost something like £7,000 for 6 days, if I’d been unfortunate enough to be ponying up my own wonga
    Where can we read your piece, or is it behind a firewall?
    I fear the dildo knappers gazette is indeed paywalled. Soz
    Knapping seems to be a very international occupation.
    Demand for the product is universal across human cultures, of course it is.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Beautiful melancholy feeling in Zurich airport. Almost empty, yet everything gleams. Obscure jazz plays over trays of Tissot watches. A fine sunset flares in fruit liqueur colours, over the black Alps beyond the glass
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,094

    Charles said:

    MattW said:

    Dethreaded !

    ’The food shortages being reported by a growing number of household names are likely to last forever, a leading industry figure has said in a stark warning to the government.

    Ian Wright, CEO of the Food & Drink Federation, said the system that for decades had meant British consumers could expect a full range of food or drink items in their supermarkets and restaurants was "over" and probably not coming back.

    A shortage of lorry drivers and workers elsewhere in supply chains, compounded by Brexit and the Covid pandemic, has triggered shortages of food and other items in recent weeks…’


    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/food-shortages-last-forever

    Story illustrated:



    By a photo of empty shelves caused by heavy snow in Blyth in 2017:



    Credible reporting from a credible source?

    (Personally, I suggest that the FDF are bullshitters, and PoliticsHome are either being lazy or incompetent if they did not check.)
    Isn’t Ian Wright an ex Labour MP and anti Brexit activist?
    Different Iain Wright.

    https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/movers/ian-wright-to-step-down-as-ceo-of-the-fdf/654186.article

    http://staticlive.icaew.com/speakers/iain-wright.html
    This one's a former Lib Dem Spin Doctor.

    From the Grocer interview.



  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840
    stodge said:

    Forum research poll from Canada:

    https://poll.forumresearch.com/data/b0cc5e28-d576-46fd-8376-ac0df5c8fe95Federal Election Poll - Sept 11th 2021.pdf

    Lot of volatility in the Canadian polls currently. Note the big jump in support for Bernier (NOT Barnier) and the People's Party of Canada. Liberals just ahead in Ontario but BQ leading in Quebec.

    Some very different numbers than in other polls.

    Yes. The PPC are surging, there is no doubt. Quite how much is disputed. That BQ score would yield 51 seats. Double what most are predicting. And the vast majority from the Liberals, denying Trudeau most seats.
  • Bish bash bosh, Brit wins mixed doubles.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    So who will be watching Last Night of the Proms tonight? Someone's got to make sure all the old songs are still there while the rest of us watch the tennis. You'd think Channel 4 would have splashed it on their website but no.

    Let’s hope somebody is, choleric EU flag count by the Gammons has become a fine tradition.
    As is, equally, a hand wringing series of articles in the guardian saying ‘how can we let this jingoistic Rule Britannia nonsense go on’

    They are as predictable as Daily Mail photos of hot teen girls jumping up and down, celebrating their A Level results

    And both are as British as, well, the Last Night of the Proms
    The thing I never understand about the Last Night angst, the Boat Race etc etc is that it is such a small part of national life - you can ignore it trivially.

    Mind you, there is nothing quite like watching idiots marooning their cars in the Thames, by parking on boat ramps without permission, while seated in a good pub. There is something very calming about sipping a pint and watching the water crawling towards the morons Chelsea tractor......
    The guardian publishes this wank because their idiot readers lap it up. Every year. Without fail. It’s no better or worse than another express article about sizzling weather or princess diana
    Not sure why the Guardian is so anti Last Night of the Prom or indeed the Boat race given the average reader of of their paper is a lot more likely to participate or watch either than the average bloke or gal-Perhaps a case of Robert Peston levels of self loathing (with his krap about being a middle aged white man and so lucky to be in a job there of )
    Not sure many Guardian readers could bear to watch Last Night of the Prom. I couldn't and I'm not a Guardian reader.
    Of course they do , so they can secretly like it and then write how awfullly white and middle class it is. A bit like when undercover reporters used to act shocked when they did (numerous) undercover visits to sex shows in Soho in the 1960s 70s
    The Guardian is amusing to read on culture sometimes. I recall one column, where the writer was venting his spleen at the following. Apparently, some Mexican people liked the total fake portrayal of the Day of The Dead in Mexico City in the Bond film. So much so, that they were trying to make it actually happen like that.

    The writer went off on one about Cultural Purity. I wondered whether he would stray into writing about the Volkish Soul, at one point.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Stocky said:

    Raducanu 4/7
    Fernandez 6/4

    Fernandez the higher-ranked player. A bit of patriotism in the betting?

    Fernandez should be favourite, surely?

    Both are lowly ranked compared to who would be expected to be in the final, so it might be considered a crapshoot. I mean, is the 100th best player in the world that much better than the 150th for example? Raducanu has had the more dominant path to the final (albeit in part as she has not played as many high ranked players as Fernandez) so maybe that is it.

    But on paper, certainly, Fernandez should win.
This discussion has been closed.