If we want good public services there for public need as I believe in very fundamentally, they should be paid for with a tax system which is progressive and increases contribution based on wealth and income. That is irrelevant to age.
That is at the very core of my belief. I fundamentally believe that health, social care, education, transport should be paid for in this way.
That's a left-wing view.
I take the right-wing view. We need a tax system with low but consistent and equally applied tax rates, which allow economic growth and higher wages, leading to higher tax receipts and lower welfare expenditure.
But this government isn't following either left or right. Its following the Sir Humphrey view: what taxes can we get away with raising? There are no principles behind it.
Time for the Tories to go into Opposition.
Time for you to go to the LDs
At least Philip has some principles, a lot more than you it seems - and I have a great deal of respect for your posts.
Pointless principle. Its got to.be paid for somehow. Govts break manifesto pledges all the time.
Why is a principle that tax should be fair, low and equitable "pointless"?
Running a deficit would be better than putting up a jobs tax while trying to come out of a recession.
But if you're going to put up taxes, why only jobs and not unearned incomes?
You don't like taxes that affect you more than others... NI does that in every facet from those who don't pay anything to the high earners who pay a lot more..
I pay council tax most of which goes to.pay for educating other peoples kids.. i dont like it either
Um, it actually doesn't - schools are paid for by the Department of Education in England - via block grants to councils if still under their control.
Council tax pays for social care, bins, libraries and planning plus anything else the council wishes to spend money on (if it's down south so has money left over).
If we want good public services there for public need as I believe in very fundamentally, they should be paid for with a tax system which is progressive and increases contribution based on wealth and income. That is irrelevant to age.
That is at the very core of my belief. I fundamentally believe that health, social care, education, transport should be paid for in this way.
That's a left-wing view.
I take the right-wing view. We need a tax system with low but consistent and equally applied tax rates, which allow economic growth and higher wages, leading to higher tax receipts and lower welfare expenditure.
But this government isn't following either left or right. Its following the Sir Humphrey view: what taxes can we get away with raising? There are no principles behind it.
Time for the Tories to go into Opposition.
Time for you to go to the LDs
At least Philip has some principles, a lot more than you it seems - and I have a great deal of respect for your posts.
Pointless principle. Its got to.be paid for somehow. Govts break manifesto pledges all the time.
Why is a principle that tax should be fair, low and equitable "pointless"?
Running a deficit would be better than putting up a jobs tax while trying to come out of a recession.
But if you're going to put up taxes, why only jobs and not unearned incomes?
You don't like taxes that affect you more than others... NI does that in every facet from those who don't pay anything to the high earners who pay a lot more..
I pay council tax most of which goes to.pay for educating other peoples kids.. i dont like it either
Um, it actually doesn't - schools are paid for by the Department of Education in England - via block grants to councils if still under their control.
Council tax pays for social care, bins, libraries and planning plus anything else the council wishes to spend money on (if it's down south so has money left over).
Untrue. I get a statement shoing where the money is spent every yr.. 85 pc is education
That's spending: but does it reflect input? ie. the education money should be from DfE rather than CT.
The triple lock is not scrapped, merely suspended.
Not announced by any of the big guns, because it’s not a major thing.
Tory’s HATE pensioners.
It was announced by Theresa Coffey as Secretary of State for pensions and welfare
Boris rocks at politics
I've always been in the minority on here that's said that about Boris.
You don't become a Conservative mayor in a massively Labour city (twice) become the public face of a successful campaign to leave the EU, become Prime Minister and win the biggest Conservative majority at a general election since Maggie without being excellent at politics.
He''s up there with Blair, Thatcher, Wilson etc as one of the best at politics.
(*NOTE* that doesn't actually mean he's any good at governing )
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels on public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
Yes, I also think Swiss care is better. But most people don't have a clue what systems in other countries are like, except that they correctly think that the cost in the US is ridiculous. Support for the NHS is simply support for the principle of spend tax money on health care free at the point of use. People don't idolise the NHS per se, but they do idolise giving high priority to healthcare.
Today’s announcements will mean higher tax and higher spending, to the tune of around £14 billion per year. The pandemic is expected to result in a permanent increase in the size of the state – as happened after WW1 and WW2, but not after the global financial crisis.. ...Following a rise in income tax of £8bn and in corporation tax of £17bn in the March Budget - the biggest tax rising Budget since 1993 - the Chancellor has announced a further tax rise of £14bn or 0.6% of national income, raising the tax burden to its highest-ever sustained level. https://twitter.com/TheIFS/status/1435224317554479108
On holiday in Portugal, but time to repeat the marginal tax rates with this increase included (1.25% to employers and employees NI):
>£8k pa - employee's NI @ 13.25% and employer's NI @ 15.05% = 28.3% total >12.5k pa - base income tax @ 20% = 48.3% total >50k pa - higher rate income tax @ 40%, but employee's NI drops by 10% (someone correct me if I’m wrong on this in the new system)= 58.3% total £100k to £125k pa - lose tax-free threshold = 78.3% total £125k to £250k pa - tax-free threshold already lost = 58.3% total >£150k pa - income tax up to @ 45% = 63.8% total
For people with student loans, add perhaps another 5 to 10% onto the above.
Can someone remind me what property taxes are per year as a comparison?
£1000-3000 depending on your council and the band your property is in.
If we want good public services there for public need as I believe in very fundamentally, they should be paid for with a tax system which is progressive and increases contribution based on wealth and income. That is irrelevant to age.
That is at the very core of my belief. I fundamentally believe that health, social care, education, transport should be paid for in this way.
That's a left-wing view.
I take the right-wing view. We need a tax system with low but consistent and equally applied tax rates, which allow economic growth and higher wages, leading to higher tax receipts and lower welfare expenditure.
But this government isn't following either left or right. Its following the Sir Humphrey view: what taxes can we get away with raising? There are no principles behind it.
Time for the Tories to go into Opposition.
Time for you to go to the LDs
Ta-ra.
Will ensure we become a purer, more traditional Conservative party as a result and will reduce Liberal dilution of Toryism and Social Democratic dilution of the LDs. Win, win
Let me stop you there
I very much lament the anger of @Philip_Thompson and @MaxPB and in no way do I celebrate their loss to the conservatives
If you are not careful you will end up as the sole member of your own party
They both want to repeat May's disastrous dementia tax or raise inheritance tax or impose a wealth tax to avoid a mere less than 1.5% rise in NI for the NHS and social care, on that basis Sir Ed Davey is welcome to them!
How do you describe the difference between the Boris plan and May plan making it so much easy to sell on doorstep?
Boris didn't unveil his plan during an election campaign..... Genius.
Is it really just the same proposals, only tweaked?
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels og public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
12% of GDP in Switzerland vs a proposed 12% here by the end of next year. I know which system I'd rather have.
This is a chart which shows English daily testing. It is very clear since about March exactly where the school holidays are by dips in the testing. You can see in the last week how the test numbers have returned to their pre-Summer holiday levels.
What is interesting is that the same chart for Scotland only shows testing jumping when the kids returned to school. It is almost impossible before to spot any obvious school holidays. I'm not sure why this would be?
If we want good public services there for public need as I believe in very fundamentally, they should be paid for with a tax system which is progressive and increases contribution based on wealth and income. That is irrelevant to age.
That is at the very core of my belief. I fundamentally believe that health, social care, education, transport should be paid for in this way.
That's a left-wing view.
I take the right-wing view. We need a tax system with low but consistent and equally applied tax rates, which allow economic growth and higher wages, leading to higher tax receipts and lower welfare expenditure.
But this government isn't following either left or right. Its following the Sir Humphrey view: what taxes can we get away with raising? There are no principles behind it.
Time for the Tories to go into Opposition.
Time for you to go to the LDs
At least Philip has some principles, a lot more than you it seems - and I have a great deal of respect for your posts.
Pointless principle. Its got to.be paid for somehow. Govts break manifesto pledges all the time.
Why is a principle that tax should be fair, low and equitable "pointless"?
Running a deficit would be better than putting up a jobs tax while trying to come out of a recession.
But if you're going to put up taxes, why only jobs and not unearned incomes?
You don't like taxes that affect you more than others... NI does that in every facet from those who don't pay anything to the high earners who pay a lot more..
I pay council tax most of which goes to.pay for educating other peoples kids.. i dont like it either
Um, it actually doesn't - schools are paid for by the Department of Education in England - via block grants to councils if still under their control.
Council tax pays for social care, bins, libraries and planning plus anything else the council wishes to spend money on (if it's down south so has money left over).
I used get a statement showing where the money is spent every year .. circa 85 pc was education if its not now then there has been some form of switcheroo as council tax has not gone down...
Used to - so it's not as of now.
And are you looking at the same thing, the revenue of a council is made up of a lot more things than just council tax.
My daughter has just been confirmed as Positive for Covid. No symptoms. She had the test because a friend that she went to a concert a few days ago also tested positive. Since then went to London and to see friends in Edinburgh. Her flight back had 3 Paralympians on it who got a clap from everyone. Hopefully that's all they got.
The 3 of us went for a walk in test this afternoon. We were apparently supposed to make an appointment but the staff were very helpful and made us an appointment on the spot. We were told that it can be up to 72 hours for a result but its usually quicker.
This morning I was in Falkirk for a hearing which involved me dealing with agents, clients and sundry court staff. I was supposed to be in Glasgow tomorrow. That has been cancelled.
What this demonstrates vividly to me is:
*the best test and trace system in the world does not have a chance in hell against Delta, let alone our system. * the NHS are working seriously hard to testing work for people. They genuinely need our thanks. * the vaccines really aren't stopping people from being infected. * economic disruption is absolutely not over.
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
I don’t know anyone who’s ever lived abroad in a developed country, who thinks much of the NHS at all. Pretty much every other system is better. The other anomaly is the USA, for completely the opposite reasons.
As others have pointed out, the NHS's main selling point is bang for buck. It's pretty cheap, compared to many systems in other sensible countries. Other sensible countries generally spend more and get more (although maybe not proportionately more for the extra spend).
NHS could of course be better (better run, fewer top-down reorganisations would help) but as anyone who has worked in or with the NHS tends to realise, it works pretty well given the tight margins it runs on (albeit always one step away from not managing - hence the never-ending winter crises). The problem with that is that adding a bit of money (even quite a lot) goes mostly to alleviate the really stretched bits and build in a bit of redundancy, it doesn't really give quickly noticeable improvements.
USA is - as you say - the other outlier, where they spend much more for less.
Nick Macpherson @nickmacpherson2 · 3h Over my adult life the national insurance rate has more than doubled from 5.75% to 12% and is set to go higher today. Over the same period the basic rate of income tax has fallen from 34% to 20%. That tells you a lot about the politics of taxation.
LOUIS XIV’S FINANCE minister, Jean-Baptiste Colbert, famously declared that “the art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing.”
(The opening of an Economist article in 2014)
Except it's not true. The taxation system's primary purpose in 2021 should be to discourage activities you want less of and encourage activities you want more of. The "paying" for things argument is arguably a bit of a relic given governments / central banks everywhere appear content to just monetise deficits.
Things we want more of: people working (including over 66 year olds that feel they have more to give). Things we want less of: rent seeking.
And yet this shower of a Cabinet apparently vote through the opposite in under an hour. Including the supposed golden boy Rishi. What a disappointment he's turned out to be.
The Conservative Party has become ideologically bankrupt and now cares only about pandering to the section of the voter base that allow them to keep troughing as long as possible. Time for a new broom. Lib Dems aren't going to win the election are they. So it will be a vote for Labour for me, or potentially a tactical vote for the Lib Dems given my seat is highly unlikely to turn Red. But the goal will be clear. Turf out these jokers, trust that Labour don't do too much damage and hope sanity returns to the Conservative party in time for the election afterwards.
Perfectly decent argument in parts though the suggestion that we no longer need taxation to pay for things but only for the good of our souls goes a little far.
And while I don't know where the next black swan is flying in from (ex hypothesi) I wonder if it will be linked to conjuring tricks with deficits?
Best to get as much bad news out in the same day, and that is excellent politics.
Don't be surprised if the Conservatives aren't up in the next set of polls. Social care and funding the NHS are popular. Don't you remember voting for it when you saw it on the side of a bus?
Absolutely. This has been a triumphant day for Boris and the Conservatives.
What we have is a Primeminister not afraid to take on the big questions of the day. Whilst Labour merrily prevaricated and fudged creating the care scandal, the Conservatives are sorting it once and for all.
What do you think was the Scandal then? It’s a scandal people have to sell their homes to pay for residential care? Or Expanding the state further to protect private assets has got to be the wrong thing to do. The status quo and the solution can’t both be scandalous?
It’s the Conservatives who have saved the NHS and Not just funded social care, but made it fair.
They have shot Labours fox, and Starmer hopeless at stopping them.
That wasn't quite what I had in mind, certainly not in the longer term.
I stick my my prediction that in the short term, today's news will all go down well, but as to saving the NHS...er...no. And remember how well George H.W. Bush's "no new taxes" went down after he raised them.
I will be honest with you this will break our manifesto commitment, but covid was not in that either
Good line
Thanks to Covid you don’t just get couple couple of years blaming your predecessor for everything, you get several more blaming Covid for everything 🙂
In your opinion, without Covid would all the manifesto pledges and expectation have been kept? Levveling up, 40 hospitals, introducing brexit and no further tax take etc
My daughter has just been confirmed as Positive for Covid. No symptoms. She had the test because a friend that she went to a concert a few days ago also tested positive. Since then went to London and to see friends in Edinburgh. Her flight back had 3 Paralympians on it who got a clap from everyone. Hopefully that's all they got.
The 3 of us went for a walk in test this afternoon. We were apparently supposed to make an appointment but the staff were very helpful and made us an appointment on the spot. We were told that it can be up to 72 hours for a result but its usually quicker.
This morning I was in Falkirk for a hearing which involved me dealing with agents, clients and sundry court staff. I was supposed to be in Glasgow tomorrow. That has been cancelled.
What this demonstrates vividly to me is:
*the best test and trace system in the world does not have a chance in hell against Delta, let alone our system. * the NHS are working seriously hard to testing work for people. They genuinely need our thanks. * the vaccines really aren't stopping people from being infected. * economic disruption is absolutely not over.
Out of interest, is your daughter jabbed? If so then the vaccine has done its job in ensuring she doesn't get seriously ill. We are going to have to learn to live with Covid like we have learnt to live with Flu.
NZ, unlike Australia, have seemed to have contained their Delta outbreak but have had to do it with very tight restrictions. It is also much easier to trace people's movements when there are fewer than 100 cases/day.
My daughter has just been confirmed as Positive for Covid. No symptoms. She had the test because a friend that she went to a concert a few days ago also tested positive. Since then went to London and to see friends in Edinburgh. Her flight back had 3 Paralympians on it who got a clap from everyone. Hopefully that's all they got.
The 3 of us went for a walk in test this afternoon. We were apparently supposed to make an appointment but the staff were very helpful and made us an appointment on the spot. We were told that it can be up to 72 hours for a result but its usually quicker.
This morning I was in Falkirk for a hearing which involved me dealing with agents, clients and sundry court staff. I was supposed to be in Glasgow tomorrow. That has been cancelled.
What this demonstrates vividly to me is:
*the best test and trace system in the world does not have a chance in hell against Delta, let alone our system. * the NHS are working seriously hard to testing work for people. They genuinely need our thanks. * the vaccines really aren't stopping people from being infected. * economic disruption is absolutely not over.
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels og public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
12% of GDP in Switzerland vs a proposed 12% here by the end of next year. I know which system I'd rather have.
Yep, with double the GDP per capita. I'd prefer the UK to have double the GDP per capita too!
Today’s announcements will mean higher tax and higher spending, to the tune of around £14 billion per year. The pandemic is expected to result in a permanent increase in the size of the state – as happened after WW1 and WW2, but not after the global financial crisis.. ...Following a rise in income tax of £8bn and in corporation tax of £17bn in the March Budget - the biggest tax rising Budget since 1993 - the Chancellor has announced a further tax rise of £14bn or 0.6% of national income, raising the tax burden to its highest-ever sustained level. https://twitter.com/TheIFS/status/1435224317554479108
0.6% gdp and £14B is significant, as that swallows the entire NET* cost of EU membership for UK.
*gross cost calculations are available from people who cheat democratic elections.
On holiday in Portugal, but time to repeat the marginal tax rates with this increase included (1.25% to employers and employees NI):
>£8k pa - employee's NI @ 13.25% and employer's NI @ 15.05% = 28.3% total >12.5k pa - base income tax @ 20% = 48.3% total >50k pa - higher rate income tax @ 40%, but employee's NI drops by 10% (someone correct me if I’m wrong on this in the new system)= 58.3% total £100k to £125k pa - lose tax-free threshold = 78.3% total £125k to £250k pa - tax-free threshold already lost = 58.3% total >£150k pa - income tax up to @ 45% = 63.8% total
For people with student loans, add perhaps another 5 to 10% onto the above.
Can someone remind me what property taxes are per year as a comparison?
£1000-3000 depending on your council and the band your property is in.
This change alone is an extra £1,400+ pa for higher rate tax payers (employer and employee combined), so it’s fair to say property taxes are tiny in comparison.
Ah ha. Clearer now. This is not using a tax rise to fix social care, it's using Covid as cover for a tax rise for the NHS, and pretending that the funds raised will also fix social care, thus getting Johnson off the hook of his promise on that score. Smoke and mirrors. There is no Social Care Plan, not really, it's going to have to wait a bit longer, probably until there's a Labour PM.
This is just wrong. A social cap was recommended by the Dilnot Report as a key plank - indeed *the* key plank of social care reform, and with good reason.
£50k, I believe. It's going to much higher than that but, ok, I guess you can just about call it "fixing social care" if you're Boris Johnson. Not sure anyone else would.
I think the comments from Carlotta/FF43 up the thread are interesting. Is this in truth mainly about increasing the fiscal position with an eye on deficit reduction? - ie what they've actually done here is found the best way to sell a tax hike to the public. NI, not income tax, since it sounds more technical and targeted, and with the funds supposedly flagged for the NHS ("hurrah!") and Social Care (just like "Boris" promised!). In fact, all is fungible, so it's purely a game of presentation. You can't say these or those funds are for these or those purposes. It's just one big pie with the deficit as the completing piece. So, here, Sunak and the Treasury have got what they want. More tax revenue. That, in essence, is all that this is.
I like that take.
The Government's social care plan is undeniably a social care plan.
If you want the Government to go further you should be jumping for joy it has done this much after 35+ years of sweet f*** all.
Particularly if you think the tax changes announced today are functionally separate (and I agree they are).
It's good that they're bringing in a cap on social care costs. To me, they are doing as little as they can feasibly get away with - given Johnson's promise - but tbf the public finances have been wrecked by Covid.
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels on public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
Yes, I also think Swiss care is better. But most people don't have a clue what systems in other countries are like, except that they correctly think that the cost in the US is ridiculous. Support for the NHS is simply support for the principle of spend tax money on health care free at the point of use. People don't idolise the NHS per se, but they do idolise giving high priority to healthcare.
I think you're well out of whack with your fellow Labour activists and supporters. Any change to the NHS gets shouted at, with slogans like: "Don't privatise the NHS!" whenever anyone non-public gets involved. Even when the changes make no change to 'free at the point of use'.
IMO the biggest threat to the NHS is it becoming too politically hot to change: any organisation the size and scale of the NHS needs to change regularly to meet the changing world. If it doesn't change, then it will eventually break.
My daughter has just been confirmed as Positive for Covid. No symptoms. She had the test because a friend that she went to a concert a few days ago also tested positive. Since then went to London and to see friends in Edinburgh. Her flight back had 3 Paralympians on it who got a clap from everyone. Hopefully that's all they got.
The 3 of us went for a walk in test this afternoon. We were apparently supposed to make an appointment but the staff were very helpful and made us an appointment on the spot. We were told that it can be up to 72 hours for a result but its usually quicker.
This morning I was in Falkirk for a hearing which involved me dealing with agents, clients and sundry court staff. I was supposed to be in Glasgow tomorrow. That has been cancelled.
What this demonstrates vividly to me is:
*the best test and trace system in the world does not have a chance in hell against Delta, let alone our system. * the NHS are working seriously hard to testing work for people. They genuinely need our thanks. * the vaccines really aren't stopping people from being infected. * economic disruption is absolutely not over.
Out of interest, is your daughter jabbed? If so then the vaccine has done its job in ensuring she doesn't get seriously ill. We are going to have to learn to live with Covid like we have learnt to live with Flu.
NZ, unlike Australia, have seemed to have contained their Delta outbreak but have had to do it with very tight restrictions. It is also much easier to trace people's movements when there are fewer than 100 cases/day.
Yes she is double jabbed. My son is also double jabbed but his second was within 14 days so he is not fully protected yet. I agree that the vaccines have done their job although at 24 her prospects were pretty good anyway. Her parents will be looking for rather more help from the vaccines.
I will be honest with you this will break our manifesto commitment, but covid was not in that either
Good line
Thanks to Covid you don’t just get couple couple of years blaming your predecessor for everything, you get several more blaming Covid for everything 🙂
In your opinion, without Covid would all the manifesto pledges and expectation have been kept? Levveling up, 40 hospitals, introducing brexit and no further tax take etc
I would love to give you an honest answer but without covid I really would have hoped so but who know
If we want good public services there for public need as I believe in very fundamentally, they should be paid for with a tax system which is progressive and increases contribution based on wealth and income. That is irrelevant to age.
That is at the very core of my belief. I fundamentally believe that health, social care, education, transport should be paid for in this way.
That's a left-wing view.
I take the right-wing view. We need a tax system with low but consistent and equally applied tax rates, which allow economic growth and higher wages, leading to higher tax receipts and lower welfare expenditure.
But this government isn't following either left or right. Its following the Sir Humphrey view: what taxes can we get away with raising? There are no principles behind it.
Time for the Tories to go into Opposition.
Time for you to go to the LDs
At least Philip has some principles, a lot more than you it seems - and I have a great deal of respect for your posts.
Pointless principle. Its got to.be paid for somehow. Govts break manifesto pledges all the time.
Why is a principle that tax should be fair, low and equitable "pointless"?
Running a deficit would be better than putting up a jobs tax while trying to come out of a recession.
But if you're going to put up taxes, why only jobs and not unearned incomes?
You don't like taxes that affect you more than others... NI does that in every facet from those who don't pay anything to the high earners who pay a lot more..
I pay council tax most of which goes to.pay for educating other peoples kids.. i dont like it either
Um, it actually doesn't - schools are paid for by the Department of Education in England - via block grants to councils if still under their control.
Council tax pays for social care, bins, libraries and planning plus anything else the council wishes to spend money on (if it's down south so has money left over).
I used get a statement showing where the money is spent every year .. circa 85 pc was education if its not now then there has been some form of switcheroo as council tax has not gone down...
The education funding agency funds schools, not the council tax.
Boris announced the social care NI hike and Theresa Coffee the 2022/23 suspension of the triple lock.
Human shields 😆
That's partly my point - Sunak has got Boris to announce the largest tax rise in years for him.
Maybe it’s accepted behind scenes that if they want to hold onto Downing Street it’s Rishi, the most popular, and wildly popular politician in this country, who will lead them into it.
He’s definitely played a blinder today, getting the PM to announce tax rises rather than doing it himself.
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels og public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
12% of GDP in Switzerland vs a proposed 12% here by the end of next year. I know which system I'd rather have.
Yes, but there's a massive difference in GDP per capita. You're basically saying that it's better to live in a richer country - which might well be true, but says little about the respective merits of the structure of their healthcare systems.
I will be honest with you this will break our manifesto commitment, but covid was not in that either
Good line
Thanks to Covid you don’t just get couple couple of years blaming your predecessor for everything, you get several more blaming Covid for everything 🙂
In your opinion, without Covid would all the manifesto pledges and expectation have been kept? Levveling up, 40 hospitals, introducing brexit and no further tax take etc
I would love to give you an honest answer but without covid I really would have hoped so but who know
Yes you are right, I agree it’s a completely non question now for a hypothetical world that won’t exist, plus, as well as the benefit of blame for u turns that is for real there were dangers of mismanaging it, which they didn’t do, in fact they led the world on managing Covid and the polls generously reflect this.
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels og public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
12% of GDP in Switzerland vs a proposed 12% here by the end of next year. I know which system I'd rather have.
I’m in Switzerland right now. I went to beautiful Bellinzona today.
It’s a lovely little city, exquisitely preserved. Everyone sits around the sunny piazzas eating pizza and gelati under the castle walls
Despite this diet I was struck by the paucity of fat people. There aren’t any. Well, there must be, but nothing like the obesity you see in Britain (let alone the USA)
They also walk and bike everywhere and live til they’re about 98.
In many ways the problem with British healthcare is not British healthcare but the British way of life. We are too fat and lazy. Simple as.
Solve that and much of the pressure on the NHS would disappear and it would be one of the best value health systems in the world
This is brave. Hopefully not just in the Yes MInister sense. Bold and brave addressing a long standing problem that others have ducked. I feel better about supporting this government today than I have for a while.
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels on public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
Yes, I also think Swiss care is better. But most people don't have a clue what systems in other countries are like, except that they correctly think that the cost in the US is ridiculous. Support for the NHS is simply support for the principle of spend tax money on health care free at the point of use. People don't idolise the NHS per se, but they do idolise giving high priority to healthcare.
I think you're well out of whack with your fellow Labour activists and supporters. Any change to the NHS gets shouted at, with slogans like: "Don't privatise the NHS!" whenever anyone non-public gets involved. Even when the changes make no change to 'free at the point of use'.
IMO the biggest threat to the NHS is it becoming too politically hot to change: any organisation the size and scale of the NHS needs to change regularly to meet the changing world. If it doesn't change, then it will eventually break.
Labour will campaign to save the NHS in a parish council by-election; without the perpetual health scaremongering to fill their leaflets they’d have even less to say
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels on public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
Yes, I also think Swiss care is better. But most people don't have a clue what systems in other countries are like, except that they correctly think that the cost in the US is ridiculous. Support for the NHS is simply support for the principle of spend tax money on health care free at the point of use. People don't idolise the NHS per se, but they do idolise giving high priority to healthcare.
The Swiss model is closer to the US model than ours.
Healthcare is funded by private health insurance companies, the hospitals are private and all adults are required to get private health insurance.
The government simply provides a cash subsidy if premiums are more than 8% of income and support for those on state benefits to get healthcare
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels on public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
Yes, I also think Swiss care is better. But most people don't have a clue what systems in other countries are like, except that they correctly think that the cost in the US is ridiculous. Support for the NHS is simply support for the principle of spend tax money on health care free at the point of use. People don't idolise the NHS per se, but they do idolise giving high priority to healthcare.
I think you're well out of whack with your fellow Labour activists and supporters. Any change to the NHS gets shouted at, with slogans like: "Don't privatise the NHS!" whenever anyone non-public gets involved. Even when the changes make no change to 'free at the point of use'.
IMO the biggest threat to the NHS is it becoming too politically hot to change: any organisation the size and scale of the NHS needs to change regularly to meet the changing world. If it doesn't change, then it will eventually break.
It is already too hot to change, and the very powerful medical unions have no intention of it changing. It is a holy cow. A lot of people in this country are obsessed by the NHS, note the embarrassing nurses on trampolines at the 2012 Olympics ceremony. It is one of the biggest bureaucracies in the world, and there are some aspects of it that are good and many that are very bad. Nick is right on one thing: "most people don't have a clue what systems in other countries are like". I have worked with most of the healthcare systems across Europe, and the NHS is nowhere near the top as far as I am concerned. As for the "envy of the world" thing, try telling that to most continental Europeans. They might refer to the "British sense of humour"
My daughter has just been confirmed as Positive for Covid. No symptoms. She had the test because a friend that she went to a concert a few days ago also tested positive. Since then went to London and to see friends in Edinburgh. Her flight back had 3 Paralympians on it who got a clap from everyone. Hopefully that's all they got.
The 3 of us went for a walk in test this afternoon. We were apparently supposed to make an appointment but the staff were very helpful and made us an appointment on the spot. We were told that it can be up to 72 hours for a result but its usually quicker.
This morning I was in Falkirk for a hearing which involved me dealing with agents, clients and sundry court staff. I was supposed to be in Glasgow tomorrow. That has been cancelled.
What this demonstrates vividly to me is:
*the best test and trace system in the world does not have a chance in hell against Delta, let alone our system. * the NHS are working seriously hard to testing work for people. They genuinely need our thanks. * the vaccines really aren't stopping people from being infected. * economic disruption is absolutely not over.
Also vividly demonstrates that PCR is pretty well useless to prevent the spread of infection. The only testing regime that has a hope of doing that is regular and widespread use of LFTs, which don't need testing centres at all.
(I note the testing centre across the road from my workplace has just been dismantled.)
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels og public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
12% of GDP in Switzerland vs a proposed 12% here by the end of next year. I know which system I'd rather have.
I’m in Switzerland right now. I went to beautiful Bellinzona today.
It’s a lovely little city, exquisitely preserved. Everyone sits around the sunny piazzas eating pizza and gelati under the castle walls
Despite this diet I was struck by the paucity of fat people. There aren’t any. Well, there must be, but nothing like the obesity you see in Britain (let alone the USA)
They also walk and bike everywhere and live til they’re about 98.
In many ways the problem with British healthcare is not British healthcare but the British way of life. We are too fat and lazy. Simple as.
Solve that and much of the pressure on the NHS would disappear and it would be one of the best value health systems in the world
Yes, walking through a Bavarian town today there are middle aged people whizzing everywhere on bikes. There are a few fatties around, due all the sausage and beer, but in the main people are pretty trim.
This is brave. Hopefully not just in the Yes MInister sense. Bold and brave addressing a long standing problem that others have ducked. I feel better about supporting this government today than I have for a while.
Yes, you'd be quite happy with minimum wage workers having more of their pay docked to subsidise the care of millionaire pensioners.
1) it has long been the case that if the NHS is to be made fit for purpose (which it is manifestly not currently) then we the British people need to spend more money on it, something we have hitherto been reluctant to do.
2) It felt surreal listening to a Tory PM and Chancellor announce a series, mid-term, of tax rises which, as @kinabalu noted earlier, paid lipservice to social care but seemed mainly to be able to pay for core NHS.
3) This is the payback that people say (well, @contrarian has been saying) has been coming since the government chose its particular approach to Covid in closing everything and furloughing. The bill has arrived.
4) At historic low interest rates this could have been funded by borrowing and then we grow ourselves out of the extra debt burden.
5) That said, more money for the NHS is not a bad thing if they can deliver meaningful improvements to the NHS although how anyone will measure it goodness only knows.
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels og public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
12% of GDP in Switzerland vs a proposed 12% here by the end of next year. I know which system I'd rather have.
I’m in Switzerland right now. I went to beautiful Bellinzona today.
It’s a lovely little city, exquisitely preserved. Everyone sits around the sunny piazzas eating pizza and gelati under the castle walls
Despite this diet I was struck by the paucity of fat people. There aren’t any. Well, there must be, but nothing like the obesity you see in Britain (let alone the USA)
They also walk and bike everywhere and live til they’re about 98.
In many ways the problem with British healthcare is not British healthcare but the British way of life. We are too fat and lazy. Simple as.
Solve that and much of the pressure on the NHS would disappear and it would be one of the best value health systems in the world
Yes, and while comparing countries' health outcomes from covid is a minefield, I would argue that if the British have had worse health outcomes than elsewhere, the majority of this can be explained by our high proportion of fatties. See also: Belgium, Russia and the Czech Republic.
Is fatness an inherent feature of Britain (and its population density and weather and/or legacy of heavy industry - see also: Belgium) or is it the results of inputs which can be changed? Regrettably my instinct is the former.
Nick Macpherson @nickmacpherson2 · 3h Over my adult life the national insurance rate has more than doubled from 5.75% to 12% and is set to go higher today. Over the same period the basic rate of income tax has fallen from 34% to 20%. That tells you a lot about the politics of taxation.
LOUIS XIV’S FINANCE minister, Jean-Baptiste Colbert, famously declared that “the art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing.”
I will be honest with you this will break our manifesto commitment, but covid was not in that either
Good line
Good to see you're swinging back into line, Big G.
Well its OK for him, he no longer has to pay NI.
I have paid my taxes all my life and will pay care costs as well, until and unless the law in Wales changes
These changes do not come in until October 2023 either
Except you've not paid taxes all your life to be frank. Not the same as everyone else.
To be completely frank as your generation has gotten older the rate of income tax (which applies to all) has gone down, while the rate of national insurance (which does not) has gone up.
All that has done is exempt you and people like you from paying your fair share of taxes. If NI goes back down, and Income Tax goes up then working people's taxes wouldn't change - but yours would.
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels og public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
12% of GDP in Switzerland vs a proposed 12% here by the end of next year. I know which system I'd rather have.
I’m in Switzerland right now. I went to beautiful Bellinzona today.
It’s a lovely little city, exquisitely preserved. Everyone sits around the sunny piazzas eating pizza and gelati under the castle walls
Despite this diet I was struck by the paucity of fat people. There aren’t any. Well, there must be, but nothing like the obesity you see in Britain (let alone the USA)
They also walk and bike everywhere and live til they’re about 98.
In many ways the problem with British healthcare is not British healthcare but the British way of life. We are too fat and lazy. Simple as.
Solve that and much of the pressure on the NHS would disappear and it would be one of the best value health systems in the world
Yes, walking through a Bavarian town today there are middle aged people whizzing everywhere on bikes. There are a few fatties around, due all the sausage and beer, but in the main people are pretty trim.
I wasn’t imagining it. Switzerland has the lowest obesity rate in Western Europe - and the lowest in the advanced world (ex East Asia)
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels on public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
Yes, I also think Swiss care is better. But most people don't have a clue what systems in other countries are like, except that they correctly think that the cost in the US is ridiculous. Support for the NHS is simply support for the principle of spend tax money on health care free at the point of use. People don't idolise the NHS per se, but they do idolise giving high priority to healthcare.
I think you're well out of whack with your fellow Labour activists and supporters. Any change to the NHS gets shouted at, with slogans like: "Don't privatise the NHS!" whenever anyone non-public gets involved. Even when the changes make no change to 'free at the point of use'.
IMO the biggest threat to the NHS is it becoming too politically hot to change: any organisation the size and scale of the NHS needs to change regularly to meet the changing world. If it doesn't change, then it will eventually break.
Yes, the world Nick describes is one I would happily endorse - but regrettably I think it is the NHS per se that is idolised.
1) it has long been the case that if the NHS is to be made fit for purpose (which it is manifestly not currently) then we the British people need to spend more money on it, something we have hitherto been reluctant to do.
2) It felt surreal listening to a Tory PM and Chancellor announce a series, mid-term, of tax rises which, as @kinabalu noted earlier, paid lipservice to social care but seemed mainly to be able to pay for core NHS.
3) This is the payback that people say (well, @contrarian has been saying) has been coming since the government chose its particular approach to Covid in closing everything and furloughing. The bill has arrived.
4) At historic low interest rates this could have been funded by borrowing and then we grow ourselves out of the extra debt burden.
5) That said, more money for the NHS is not a bad thing if they can deliver meaningful improvements to the NHS although how anyone will measure it goodness only knows.
6) They have left Lab with nowhere to go.
6) I would have thought it opens up lots of options for Labour. Whether they see them, or choose to take them might be another matter.
I just do not understand how you can flip and flop around your belief in a leader and party so easily and in such a transparently dishonest way.
I'm a Labour member because I believe in Labour values and I believe in Labour Governments in general (even if at the moment I personally hope for a coalition on the basis it would probably force PR to be implemented which I support strongly), so I find it very difficult to not think Labour is not the best choice. Many will have seen how I defended Corbyn to the end (and as I have said I am quite ashamed of that).
But some here call themselves Tory members yet seem to threaten to quit the party and get rid of the PM at least three times a day.
If you want to be a Tory, then just be a Tory. But please don't pretend that you're actually wavering, because I don't think you really are.
1) it has long been the case that if the NHS is to be made fit for purpose (which it is manifestly not currently) then we the British people need to spend more money on it, something we have hitherto been reluctant to do.
2) It felt surreal listening to a Tory PM and Chancellor announce a series, mid-term, of tax rises which, as @kinabalu noted earlier, paid lipservice to social care but seemed mainly to be able to pay for core NHS.
3) This is the payback that people say (well, @contrarian has been saying) has been coming since the government chose its particular approach to Covid in closing everything and furloughing. The bill has arrived.
4) At historic low interest rates this could have been funded by borrowing and then we grow ourselves out of the extra debt burden.
5) That said, more money for the NHS is not a bad thing if they can deliver meaningful improvements to the NHS although how anyone will measure it goodness only knows.
6) They have left Lab with nowhere to go.
Your point 5 is the tricky bit. The Blair government splurged money at the NHS. A large amount of those increases were lost to inexplicable pay rises to the most well paid in the NHS,; hospital consultants and GPs.
1) it has long been the case that if the NHS is to be made fit for purpose (which it is manifestly not currently) then we the British people need to spend more money on it, something we have hitherto been reluctant to do.
2) It felt surreal listening to a Tory PM and Chancellor announce a series, mid-term, of tax rises which, as @kinabalu noted earlier, paid lipservice to social care but seemed mainly to be able to pay for core NHS.
3) This is the payback that people say (well, @contrarian has been saying) has been coming since the government chose its particular approach to Covid in closing everything and furloughing. The bill has arrived.
4) At historic low interest rates this could have been funded by borrowing and then we grow ourselves out of the extra debt burden.
5) That said, more money for the NHS is not a bad thing if they can deliver meaningful improvements to the NHS although how anyone will measure it goodness only knows.
6) They have left Lab with nowhere to go.
6) I would have thought it opens up lots of options for Labour. Whether they see them, or choose to take them might be another matter.
Well as I noted earlier I think there has been a structural change in the perception of how much state people want in their lives but I have to believe there is room for only so many tax and spend parties right now.
Referring to the contents of what he was presenting? I assume that clip was from the same time as the BBC article, where he quite clearly stated there would be tax rises in the future when things were on the up.
The latest Tory flap lasted a whole two hours for some, honestly why do you even pretend you aren't going to vote for them?
I must be unique in actually not wanting a majority Labour Government despite being a Labour member? I'd like a Labour/LD government
Can I let you into a secret? Tories aren't an interchangeable homogenous bloc with a single hive mind.
The Tories that have said they're angry and not going to vote for this government now are unless I've missed any MaxPB, CasinoRoyale and myself.
None of us are saying otherwise now.
I am not Big G. Max is not DavidL. Believe it or not, we're all different people and can have our own priorities and our own thoughts!
It wasn't aimed at you Philip, there are some here who pretend constantly that they are wavering for all manner of reasons and then a good speech later they're BoJo fans again. It's the transparent dishonesty that I don't like. It just makes their actions meaningless.
The Tories I most respect - and they have heard me say so before - are those that have actually quit, stuck to their principles and then argued for it from the outside.
I don't think I could ever do that with Labour, even if I conclude soon that Starmer should resign.
I will be honest with you this will break our manifesto commitment, but covid was not in that either
Good line
Good to see you're swinging back into line, Big G.
To be honest Boris was as good today as I have heard him for a very long time
Today may well be a game changer but it does not stop me wanting Rishi to be PM
He may be chipper because if today's announcement does go to hell in a handcart, it is Sunak that has been thrown under the bus.
Remember too, the "pasty tax budget" was a rip-roaring success until voters realised what it meant.
The understanding of voters going forward is dominated by Boris has solved crisis and unfairness in social care and saved the NHS from Covid bankruptcy. The voters want that.
They will also remember Labour had a clear policy too, they stood up and opposed what Boris is doing. Labours position is to betray working people, who have worked hard all their lives and are now pensioners. Is it any wonder this key voting group had wised up and stopped voting Labour?
I will be honest with you this will break our manifesto commitment, but covid was not in that either
Good line
Good to see you're swinging back into line, Big G.
Well its OK for him, he no longer has to pay NI.
I have paid my taxes all my life and will pay care costs as well, until and unless the law in Wales changes
These changes do not come in until October 2023 either
Except you've not paid taxes all your life to be frank. Not the same as everyone else.
To be completely frank as your generation has gotten older the rate of income tax (which applies to all) has gone down, while the rate of national insurance (which does not) has gone up.
All that has done is exempt you and people like you from paying your fair share of taxes. If NI goes back down, and Income Tax goes up then working people's taxes wouldn't change - but yours would.
And I am to blame for government policies over decades
And I wasn't implying anyone who votes Tory is scum either, it's one of my most hated aspects of Labour politics these days. Let's have sensible debates, not call each other scum.
1) it has long been the case that if the NHS is to be made fit for purpose (which it is manifestly not currently) then we the British people need to spend more money on it, something we have hitherto been reluctant to do.
2) It felt surreal listening to a Tory PM and Chancellor announce a series, mid-term, of tax rises which, as @kinabalu noted earlier, paid lipservice to social care but seemed mainly to be able to pay for core NHS.
3) This is the payback that people say (well, @contrarian has been saying) has been coming since the government chose its particular approach to Covid in closing everything and furloughing. The bill has arrived.
4) At historic low interest rates this could have been funded by borrowing and then we grow ourselves out of the extra debt burden.
5) That said, more money for the NHS is not a bad thing if they can deliver meaningful improvements to the NHS although how anyone will measure it goodness only knows.
6) They have left Lab with nowhere to go.
Your point 5 is the tricky bit. The Blair government splurged money at the NHS. A large amount of those increases were lost to inexplicable pay rises to the most well paid in the NHS,; hospital consultants and GPs.
Yes. The NHS probably did need extra funding at that time but the lack of meaningful improvements in productivity as a result of the spending was near criminal.
And I wasn't implying anyone who votes Tory is scum either, it's one of my most hated aspects of Labour politics these days. Let's have sensible debates, not call each other scum.
I didn't mean to suggest you were, it's just a meme. Apologies if you took it that way.
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels og public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
12% of GDP in Switzerland vs a proposed 12% here by the end of next year. I know which system I'd rather have.
I’m in Switzerland right now. I went to beautiful Bellinzona today.
It’s a lovely little city, exquisitely preserved. Everyone sits around the sunny piazzas eating pizza and gelati under the castle walls
Despite this diet I was struck by the paucity of fat people. There aren’t any. Well, there must be, but nothing like the obesity you see in Britain (let alone the USA)
They also walk and bike everywhere and live til they’re about 98.
In many ways the problem with British healthcare is not British healthcare but the British way of life. We are too fat and lazy. Simple as.
Solve that and much of the pressure on the NHS would disappear and it would be one of the best value health systems in the world
Yes, and while comparing countries' health outcomes from covid is a minefield, I would argue that if the British have had worse health outcomes than elsewhere, the majority of this can be explained by our high proportion of fatties. See also: Belgium, Russia and the Czech Republic.
Is fatness an inherent feature of Britain (and its population density and weather and/or legacy of heavy industry - see also: Belgium) or is it the results of inputs which can be changed? Regrettably my instinct is the former.
A complex mixture I’d say. Which makes it hard but not impossible to solve.
Also worth noting that even in slender Switzerland obesity has doubled, in some age groups, in 20 years. It’s a global problem
On the upside we are, I read, quite close to major new drugs which will help tackle this.
This is brave. Hopefully not just in the Yes MInister sense. Bold and brave addressing a long standing problem that others have ducked. I feel better about supporting this government today than I have for a while.
Yes, you'd be quite happy with minimum wage workers having more of their pay docked to subsidise the care of millionaire pensioners.
I am assuming that you don't read my posts (and why should you). My concern here was that this was being imposed upon those working and below retirement age. That is not the case. I was concerned that political advantage might leave the triple lock in place. That has not happened. It is not the case that the wealthy will not pay for social care, they will pay up to £86k each for their care.
This package provides serious sums to the NHS for clearing the backlog. Whether it will be sufficient to fully fund social care going forward remains to be seen but it is the biggest step forward we have ever seen.
I will be honest with you this will break our manifesto commitment, but covid was not in that either
Good line
Good to see you're swinging back into line, Big G.
To be honest Boris was as good today as I have heard him for a very long time
Today may well be a game changer but it does not stop me wanting Rishi to be PM
He may be chipper because if today's announcement does go to hell in a handcart, it is Sunak that has been thrown under the bus.
Remember too, the "pasty tax budget" was a rip-roaring success until voters realised what it meant.
The understanding of voters going forward is dominated by Boris has solved crisis and unfairness in social care and saved the NHS from Covid bankruptcy. The voters want that.
They will also remember Labour had a clear policy too, they stood up and opposed what Boris is doing. Labours position is to betray working people, who have worked hard all their lives and are now pensioners. Is it any wonder this key voting group had wised up and stopped voting Labour?
"Boris's" crisis solving credentials rarely deliver what they promise. "I have an oven-ready deal" for starters.
In my view Labour should vote for the NHS and social care levy. It would be a constant problem hereafter explaining why we didn’t when we support its aims and don’t have a credible alternative tax plan
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels on public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
Yes, I also think Swiss care is better. But most people don't have a clue what systems in other countries are like, except that they correctly think that the cost in the US is ridiculous. Support for the NHS is simply support for the principle of spend tax money on health care free at the point of use. People don't idolise the NHS per se, but they do idolise giving high priority to healthcare.
Ways to skin a cat but UK comes out well overall in this international comparison of healthcare systems (better than Switzerland in fact), but not so good on health outcomes, which seems important to me:
I will be honest with you this will break our manifesto commitment, but covid was not in that either
Good line
Good to see you're swinging back into line, Big G.
Well its OK for him, he no longer has to pay NI.
I have paid my taxes all my life and will pay care costs as well, until and unless the law in Wales changes
These changes do not come in until October 2023 either
Except you've not paid taxes all your life to be frank. Not the same as everyone else.
To be completely frank as your generation has gotten older the rate of income tax (which applies to all) has gone down, while the rate of national insurance (which does not) has gone up.
All that has done is exempt you and people like you from paying your fair share of taxes. If NI goes back down, and Income Tax goes up then working people's taxes wouldn't change - but yours would.
And I am to blame for government policies over decades
I have paid all the taxes required by HMG
That just means you're not a criminal but paying all your taxes required by HMG is not the same as paying your fair share in taxes.
Especially when so many in your generation to be brutally honest have been voting for and are saying in polls etc they're very happy to see tax rises in NI (knowing full well they won't pay it) while opposing tax rises like Income Tax etc that would be applicable to their pensions etc
National Insurance really should be abolished and merged with Income Tax. There is no excuse to be raiding considerably more tax from some people's incomes than others with the exact same income.
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels on public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
Yes, I also think Swiss care is better. But most people don't have a clue what systems in other countries are like, except that they correctly think that the cost in the US is ridiculous. Support for the NHS is simply support for the principle of spend tax money on health care free at the point of use. People don't idolise the NHS per se, but they do idolise giving high priority to healthcare.
I think you're well out of whack with your fellow Labour activists and supporters. Any change to the NHS gets shouted at, with slogans like: "Don't privatise the NHS!" whenever anyone non-public gets involved. Even when the changes make no change to 'free at the point of use'.
IMO the biggest threat to the NHS is it becoming too politically hot to change: any organisation the size and scale of the NHS needs to change regularly to meet the changing world. If it doesn't change, then it will eventually break.
On the privatisation thing, some colleagues were commissioned years ago (towards the end of the Labour government) to assess the effects of letting private providers run some NHS services. They found that, on the whole, the private providers were giving a better service (as measured by various objective outcomes and patient reported outcome measures. In some cases, quite strikingly so. They also found that the private providers cost more per unit of treatment. In some cases, quite strikingly so. Go figure, I guess.
I don't give a damn who runs the actual services as long as all users have equal access. I'm also not convinced that more private sector involvement would improve return per £ (nor convinced that it would not - needs to be considered on a case by case basis). Sadly, the thing that is needed (mainly, there are doubtless potentials for efficiencies) to get a better service is to pay more for it.
In my view Labour should vote for the NHS and social care levy. It would be a constant problem hereafter explaining why we didn’t when we support its aims and don’t have a credible alternative tax plan
And I wasn't implying anyone who votes Tory is scum either, it's one of my most hated aspects of Labour politics these days. Let's have sensible debates, not call each other scum.
I vote labour, consider myself labour although am a Starmersceptic, but I really hate that side of online labour politics. Especially on twitter and Facebook. I don’t see it too much in Lib Dem or Tory support but certainly,diehard brexiteer/BXP support is the same.
I also hate the voter blaming. Getting annoyed at red wall voters for,daring to vote Tory. Don’t blame them, figure out why labour had, and still has, little to offer these communities.
This is brave. Hopefully not just in the Yes MInister sense. Bold and brave addressing a long standing problem that others have ducked. I feel better about supporting this government today than I have for a while.
Yes, you'd be quite happy with minimum wage workers having more of their pay docked to subsidise the care of millionaire pensioners.
I am assuming that you don't read my posts (and why should you). My concern here was that this was being imposed upon those working and below retirement age. That is not the case. I was concerned that political advantage might leave the triple lock in place. That has not happened. It is not the case that the wealthy will not pay for social care, they will pay up to £86k each for their care.
This package provides serious sums to the NHS for clearing the backlog. Whether it will be sufficient to fully fund social care going forward remains to be seen but it is the biggest step forward we have ever seen.
It is the case. If someone has a pension of £30k per annum then they're not paying this tax. If someone has a £30k per annum salary they are.
This is a tax on jobs, a tax on working. It is not a broad, applicable to all tax.
In my view Labour should vote for the NHS and social care levy. It would be a constant problem hereafter explaining why we didn’t when we support its aims and don’t have a credible alternative tax plan
I just do not understand how you can flip and flop around your belief in a leader and party so easily and in such a transparently dishonest way.
I'm a Labour member because I believe in Labour values and I believe in Labour Governments in general (even if at the moment I personally hope for a coalition on the basis it would probably force PR to be implemented which I support strongly), so I find it very difficult to not think Labour is not the best choice. Many will have seen how I defended Corbyn to the end (and as I have said I am quite ashamed of that).
But some here call themselves Tory members yet seem to threaten to quit the party and get rid of the PM at least three times a day.
If you want to be a Tory, then just be a Tory. But please don't pretend that you're actually wavering, because I don't think you really are.
I think there’s a certain amount of relief at the announcement today coming through
I’m pleased about the dividend tax although IR35 will render it less effective.
What's always been odd to me is the way people bang on about the NHS as being some amazing service that isn't replicated anywhere in the world. I've lived overseas and my experience in Switzerland was far, far better than anything I've had here with the NHS. It has become completely impervious to criticism and therefore impossible to reform, all it is now is a money black hole which will continue to take a greater and greater share of national income while providing lesser and lesser service for the substantial grants it receives.
All over Europe healthcare is universally available and everywhere I've been has been hugely better than the NHS and the people are significantly healthier because there doesn't exist and attitude of "well who cares if I get sick, the NHS will fix it for me". I see a lot less of that from my European friends as compared to the general British attitude towards their own health.
If you want to spend Swiss levels og public money on healthcare then go for it.
The thing that makes the NHS so amazing is how incredibly cheap it is.
To get to swiss levels you are proposing a 20% increase to the NHS budget.
12% of GDP in Switzerland vs a proposed 12% here by the end of next year. I know which system I'd rather have.
I’m in Switzerland right now. I went to beautiful Bellinzona today.
It’s a lovely little city, exquisitely preserved. Everyone sits around the sunny piazzas eating pizza and gelati under the castle walls
Despite this diet I was struck by the paucity of fat people. There aren’t any. Well, there must be, but nothing like the obesity you see in Britain (let alone the USA)
They also walk and bike everywhere and live til they’re about 98.
In many ways the problem with British healthcare is not British healthcare but the British way of life. We are too fat and lazy. Simple as.
Solve that and much of the pressure on the NHS would disappear and it would be one of the best value health systems in the world
Yes, and while comparing countries' health outcomes from covid is a minefield, I would argue that if the British have had worse health outcomes than elsewhere, the majority of this can be explained by our high proportion of fatties. See also: Belgium, Russia and the Czech Republic.
Is fatness an inherent feature of Britain (and its population density and weather and/or legacy of heavy industry - see also: Belgium) or is it the results of inputs which can be changed? Regrettably my instinct is the former.
A complex mixture I’d say. Which makes it hard but not impossible to solve.
Also worth noting that even in slender Switzerland obesity has doubled, in some age groups, in 20 years. It’s a global problem
On the upside we are, I read, quite close to major new drugs which will help tackle this.
There will be a mix of logistical and climatic reasons, but culture plays a key part - outdoor exercise has a more central cultural role - in Germany and Switzerland focused on Wandern and in France and Italy more on road cycling - than we have.
Comments
https://www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/A4 STATIC IMAGE_04_1.pdf
You don't become a Conservative mayor in a massively Labour city (twice) become the public face of a successful campaign to leave the EU, become Prime Minister and win the biggest Conservative majority at a general election since Maggie without being excellent at politics.
He''s up there with Blair, Thatcher, Wilson etc as one of the best at politics.
(*NOTE* that doesn't actually mean he's any good at governing
I will be honest with you this will break our manifesto commitment, but covid was not in that either
Good line
The pandemic is expected to result in a permanent increase in the size of the state – as happened after WW1 and WW2, but not after the global financial crisis..
...Following a rise in income tax of £8bn and in corporation tax of £17bn in the March Budget - the biggest tax rising Budget since 1993 - the Chancellor has announced a further tax rise of £14bn or 0.6% of national income, raising the tax burden to its highest-ever sustained level.
https://twitter.com/TheIFS/status/1435224317554479108
What is interesting is that the same chart for Scotland only shows testing jumping when the kids returned to school. It is almost impossible before to spot any obvious school holidays. I'm not sure why this would be?
And are you looking at the same thing, the revenue of a council is made up of a lot more things than just council tax.
The 3 of us went for a walk in test this afternoon. We were apparently supposed to make an appointment but the staff were very helpful and made us an appointment on the spot. We were told that it can be up to 72 hours for a result but its usually quicker.
This morning I was in Falkirk for a hearing which involved me dealing with agents, clients and sundry court staff. I was supposed to be in Glasgow tomorrow. That has been cancelled.
What this demonstrates vividly to me is:
*the best test and trace system in the world does not have a chance in hell against Delta, let alone our system.
* the NHS are working seriously hard to testing work for people. They genuinely need our thanks.
* the vaccines really aren't stopping people from being infected.
* economic disruption is absolutely not over.
NHS could of course be better (better run, fewer top-down reorganisations would help) but as anyone who has worked in or with the NHS tends to realise, it works pretty well given the tight margins it runs on (albeit always one step away from not managing - hence the never-ending winter crises). The problem with that is that adding a bit of money (even quite a lot) goes mostly to alleviate the really stretched bits and build in a bit of redundancy, it doesn't really give quickly noticeable improvements.
USA is - as you say - the other outlier, where they spend much more for less.
And while I don't know where the next black swan is flying in from (ex hypothesi) I wonder if it will be linked to conjuring tricks with deficits?
I stick my my prediction that in the short term, today's news will all go down well, but as to saving the NHS...er...no. And remember how well George H.W. Bush's "no new taxes" went down after he raised them.
And about that bus...
In your opinion, without Covid would all the manifesto pledges and expectation have been kept? Levveling up, 40 hospitals, introducing brexit and no further tax take etc
NZ, unlike Australia, have seemed to have contained their Delta outbreak but have had to do it with very tight restrictions. It is also much easier to trace people's movements when there are fewer than 100 cases/day.
Today may well be a game changer but it does not stop me wanting Rishi to be PM
*gross cost calculations are available from people who cheat democratic elections.
IMO the biggest threat to the NHS is it becoming too politically hot to change: any organisation the size and scale of the NHS needs to change regularly to meet the changing world. If it doesn't change, then it will eventually break.
Remember too, the "pasty tax budget" was a rip-roaring success until voters realised what it meant.
You're basically saying that it's better to live in a richer country - which might well be true, but says little about the respective merits of the structure of their healthcare systems.
It’s a lovely little city, exquisitely preserved. Everyone sits around the sunny piazzas eating pizza and gelati under the castle walls
Despite this diet I was struck by the paucity of fat people. There aren’t any. Well, there must be, but nothing like the obesity you see in Britain (let alone the USA)
They also walk and bike everywhere and live til they’re about 98.
In many ways the problem with British healthcare is not British healthcare but the British way of life. We are too fat and lazy. Simple as.
Solve that and much of the pressure on the NHS would disappear and it would be one of the best value health systems in the world
Terrible import from the US.
Healthcare is funded by private health insurance companies, the hospitals are private and all adults are required to get private health insurance.
The government simply provides a cash subsidy if premiums are more than 8% of income and support for those on state benefits to get healthcare
These changes do not come in until October 2023 either
I must be unique in actually not wanting a majority Labour Government despite being a Labour member? I'd like a Labour/LD government
Also vividly demonstrates that PCR is pretty well useless to prevent the spread of infection. The only testing regime that has a hope of doing that is regular and widespread use of LFTs, which don't need testing centres at all.
(I note the testing centre across the road from my workplace has just been dismantled.)
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56266683
1) it has long been the case that if the NHS is to be made fit for purpose (which it is manifestly not currently) then we the British people need to spend more money on it, something we have hitherto been reluctant to do.
2) It felt surreal listening to a Tory PM and Chancellor announce a series, mid-term, of tax rises which, as @kinabalu noted earlier, paid lipservice to social care but seemed mainly to be able to pay for core NHS.
3) This is the payback that people say (well, @contrarian has been saying) has been coming since the government chose its particular approach to Covid in closing everything and furloughing. The bill has arrived.
4) At historic low interest rates this could have been funded by borrowing and then we grow ourselves out of the extra debt burden.
5) That said, more money for the NHS is not a bad thing if they can deliver meaningful improvements to the NHS although how anyone will measure it goodness only knows.
6) They have left Lab with nowhere to go.
Is fatness an inherent feature of Britain (and its population density and weather and/or legacy of heavy industry - see also: Belgium) or is it the results of inputs which can be changed? Regrettably my instinct is the former.
To be completely frank as your generation has gotten older the rate of income tax (which applies to all) has gone down, while the rate of national insurance (which does not) has gone up.
All that has done is exempt you and people like you from paying your fair share of taxes. If NI goes back down, and Income Tax goes up then working people's taxes wouldn't change - but yours would.
The Tories that have said they're angry and not going to vote for this government now are unless I've missed any MaxPB, CasinoRoyale and myself.
None of us are saying otherwise now.
I am not Big G. Max is not DavidL. Believe it or not, we're all different people and can have our own priorities and our own thoughts!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate
I'm a Labour member because I believe in Labour values and I believe in Labour Governments in general (even if at the moment I personally hope for a coalition on the basis it would probably force PR to be implemented which I support strongly), so I find it very difficult to not think Labour is not the best choice. Many will have seen how I defended Corbyn to the end (and as I have said I am quite ashamed of that).
But some here call themselves Tory members yet seem to threaten to quit the party and get rid of the PM at least three times a day.
If you want to be a Tory, then just be a Tory. But please don't pretend that you're actually wavering, because I don't think you really are.
It is quite a good feeling
The Tories I most respect - and they have heard me say so before - are those that have actually quit, stuck to their principles and then argued for it from the outside.
I don't think I could ever do that with Labour, even if I conclude soon that Starmer should resign.
They will also remember Labour had a clear policy too, they stood up and opposed what Boris is doing. Labours position is to betray working people, who have worked hard all their lives and are now pensioners. Is it any wonder this key voting group had wised up and stopped voting Labour?
I have paid all the taxes required by HMG
(Anyway, none of you are proper Tories, according to PB's resident expert)
Also worth noting that even in slender Switzerland obesity has doubled, in some age groups, in 20 years. It’s a global problem
On the upside we are, I read, quite close to major new drugs which will help tackle this.
This package provides serious sums to the NHS for clearing the backlog. Whether it will be sufficient to fully fund social care going forward remains to be seen but it is the biggest step forward we have ever seen.
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1435266118353104898?s=20
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly#rank
Especially when so many in your generation to be brutally honest have been voting for and are saying in polls etc they're very happy to see tax rises in NI (knowing full well they won't pay it) while opposing tax rises like Income Tax etc that would be applicable to their pensions etc
National Insurance really should be abolished and merged with Income Tax. There is no excuse to be raiding considerably more tax from some people's incomes than others with the exact same income.
I don't give a damn who runs the actual services as long as all users have equal access. I'm also not convinced that more private sector involvement would improve return per £ (nor convinced that it would not - needs to be considered on a case by case basis). Sadly, the thing that is needed (mainly, there are doubtless potentials for efficiencies) to get a better service is to pay more for it.
Politics is so surreal
I also hate the voter blaming. Getting annoyed at red wall voters for,daring to vote Tory. Don’t blame them, figure out why labour had, and still has, little to offer these communities.
It unravels...
Looks like Max was on the money...
This is a tax on jobs, a tax on working. It is not a broad, applicable to all tax.
A class politics BoJo - now the young should come and vote this lot out
I’m pleased about the dividend tax although IR35 will render it less effective.
One thing you don’t see so many of is gyms.