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Britain is among the least lockdown sceptical of 20 European countries – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    edited August 2021

    Test positivity in FL is 37%.

    Yikes!

    The US is in for a world of hurt. Biden's modest vaccine targets have been missed and all the refuseniks don't appear to be rushing to get the numbers up.
    Quite staggering just how much of a failure Biden is turning out to be. I’d read the other day they were looking at water shortages as they have to redirect the liquid oxygen that would normally treat it to ICUs
    On this, Biden isn't the major problem, it is the coalition of Trumpsters, ethnic minorities and new age yoga alternative lifestylers antivaxxers that are a sizable number.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    Test positivity in FL is 37%.

    Yikes!

    Probably Key West for Christmas won’t happen this year.
    I presume given how magnetic key west is for anti-government conspiracy theorist nutters, the vaccination rate might be a tad low around those parts
    Yeah, which is a shame cos be and the Wife quite like it.
  • https://www.covid19assembly.org/2021/08/the-government-has-based-the-handling-of-the-covid-pandemic-on-flawed-assumptions-say-133-doctors-nurses-paramedics-and-midwives/

    The data on which we are basing your covid assumptions is completely flawed, say some named health professionals.

    Now I stress these are not TSE approved health professionals, nor have they been vetted by experts such as Alistair 100,00 cases. So caveat emptor, naturally.

    These are health professionals we can disregard, because, well, they are nutters obviously. Whereas the doctors we listen to, like Susan Michie and that Pagel woman, are completely above reproach.

    Andy Cook has done all the research for us anyway, and there's no point in arguing.

    There are 595,000 health professionals currently employed in the UK. The fact that 133 of them turn out to be somewhat unhinged is no real great surprise. Perhaps the only real surprise is that they could find so few.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    https://www.covid19assembly.org/2021/08/the-government-has-based-the-handling-of-the-covid-pandemic-on-flawed-assumptions-say-133-doctors-nurses-paramedics-and-midwives/

    The data on which we are basing your covid assumptions is completely flawed, say some named health professionals.

    Now I stress these are not TSE approved health professionals, nor have they been vetted by experts such as Alistair 100,00 cases. So caveat emptor, naturally.

    These are health professionals we can disregard, because, well, they are nutters obviously. Whereas the doctors we listen to, like Susan Michie and that Pagel woman, are completely above reproach.

    Andy Cook has done all the research for us anyway, and there's no point in arguing.

    There are 595,000 health professionals currently employed in the UK. The fact that 133 of them turn out to be somewhat unhinged is no real great surprise. Perhaps the only real surprise is that they could find so few.
    As I say, you can disregard them in favour of TSE approved professionals.
  • A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    Yes by vaccinating them. Unless of course you are proposing permanent lockdowns.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Test positivity in FL is 37%.

    Yikes!

    The US is in for a world of hurt. Biden's modest vaccine targets have been missed and all the refuseniks don't appear to be rushing to get the numbers up.
    Quite staggering just how much of a failure Biden is turning out to be. I’d read the other day they were looking at water shortages as they have to redirect the liquid oxygen that would normally treat it to ICUs
    On this, Biden isn't the major problem, it is the coalition of Trumpsters, ethnic minorities and new age yoga alternative lifestylers antivaxxers that are a sizable number.
    And health is a state prerogative, so there is little Biden can directly do about the situation in Florida.

    Afghanistan has been an unmitigated, unforced disaster. For that, Biden deserves all that is coming his way. But it doesn't mean everything that is going wrong under his watch is his fault.
  • DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Test positivity in FL is 37%.

    Yikes!

    Probably Key West for Christmas won’t happen this year.
    I presume given how magnetic key west is for anti-government conspiracy theorist nutters, the vaccination rate might be a tad low around those parts
    Yeah, which is a shame cos be and the Wife quite like it.
    Mrs U worked down there for a while. There are worse places to have to spend some time.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    edited August 2021
    32,253 cases....49 deaths.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    DougSeal said:

    Test positivity in FL is 37%.

    Yikes!

    Probably Key West for Christmas won’t happen this year.
    We were looking at exactly that. But no longer. It's going to have to be sherry and the Snowman and Poirot again. Ah well. Mustn't grumble.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    And considerably reduces the chances of you catching it and passing it on if you do.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    DougSeal said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It reduces the possibility of all of those things dramatically. Parachutes don’t necessarily stop you dying after jumping out of a plane, seat belts don’t necessarily stop you dying in a car accident. These are not zero sum outcomes.
    More eloquently and persuasively said than my rebuttal.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,929

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    So vaccination does nothing to reduce the risk of hospitilisation.

    What are you smoking, and can I have some of it?
  • 32,253 cases....49 deaths.

    Quite high case numbers for a Sunday.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    Yes by vaccinating them. Unless of course you are proposing permanent lockdowns.
    No I am proposing permanent liberty and freedom, you know, that situation that last from 1945 to March 2020....?

    Quarantine and vaccinate the sick and vulnerable. Let healthy people live their lives.

  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    maaarsh said:

    On topic. The stat in the header that interests me the most is not that related to the UK but that related to Sweden.

    The country that spent most of the first year of the pandemic claiming that lockdowns were not the way to proceed and then suffered as a consequence is now almost the least lockdown sceptic of the whole of Europe.

    Bit cheeky to ignore half the survey - in terms of people who think lockdowns work they're very much in the bottom half of the western european countries there.
    Erm no.

    One graph is of those who think lockdowns don't work (do more harm than good) - in Sweden that number is 15%, 3rd from bottom . The other graph is those who think the Covid risks are overstated - in Sweden that number is 14% - the lowest out of those polled.

    Neither shows them in the bottom half of those thinking lockdowns don't work. Exactly the reverse in fact.
    Err no, I'm not referring to the 2nd table at all. The first table includes the number who think Lockdowns work as well as the number who think they don't work (and those who think they make no difference).

    Sweden is pretty near table topping in thinking lockdowns are net neutral, and the number of positives is lower than most of Western Europe - you're basing a conclusion on 1/3rd of the data presented when the rest does not agree.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    So why are ever higher percentages of those in hospital, in ICUs and dying young adults and children? (No need to reply, I know the answer)
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    edited August 2021
    There are hints that the Taliban leadership are getting pretty frustrated by the scenes at the airport and wider Western evacuation action. Theyve sent some of ther best to the airport approaches to try to shore things up but the unfolding mess there is a problem for them too.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    32,253 cases....49 deaths.

    Quite high case numbers for a Sunday.
    Numbers remain flat as a pancake in England. Up a mere 93 from last weekend.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    On topic. The stat in the header that interests me the most is not that related to the UK but that related to Sweden.

    The country that spent most of the first year of the pandemic claiming that lockdowns were not the way to proceed and then suffered as a consequence is now almost the least lockdown sceptic of the whole of Europe.

    Rational people. Learning from experience.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    RobD said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    So vaccination does nothing to reduce the risk of hospitilisation.

    What are you smoking, and can I have some of it?
    No I am not saying that. For the vulnerable and older people the vaccines are very useful.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited August 2021
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Test positivity in FL is 37%.

    Yikes!

    Probably Key West for Christmas won’t happen this year.
    We were looking at exactly that. But no longer. It's going to have to be sherry and the Snowman and Poirot again. Ah well. Mustn't grumble.
    Mustn't grumble. Made me chuckle. Such a quintessentially British approach. Don't hear that phrase at all Stateside.

    PS Question for the PB brains trust: Is "musn't grumble" an oxymoron?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,929

    RobD said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    So vaccination does nothing to reduce the risk of hospitilisation.

    What are you smoking, and can I have some of it?
    No I am not saying that. For the vulnerable and older people the vaccines are very useful.
    Your earlier post said exactly that. In reply to a comment saying being vaccinated "overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it", you replied saying that it doesn't.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    In less than 48 hours Biden's entire domestic agenda is going to be blown up by 9 Democrats who apparently don't understand that the bill is insanely popular.

    https://twitter.com/banditelli/status/1429441028298133506?s=19
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    DougSeal said:

    32,253 cases....49 deaths.

    Quite high case numbers for a Sunday.
    Numbers remain flat as a pancake in England. Up a mere 93 from last weekend.
    Looks like up 3k to me comparing England cases declared 22nd vs 15th.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439
    FWIW I think Boris, and Raab took his lead from him, did fanny about but I don't expect a single blow to land on them over Afghanistan because everyone knows the UK was simply rowing in behind US policy on it - and we had no choice.

    A better criticism would be why Boris didn't influence Biden better as Cameron did over a decidedly sceptical Obama over Libya in 2011.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Biden has nominated Rahm Emanuel, the former mayor of Chicago and former President Barack Obama’s first chief of staff, to be next ambassador to Japan.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    TimT said:

    DougSeal said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It reduces the possibility of all of those things dramatically. Parachutes don’t necessarily stop you dying after jumping out of a plane, seat belts don’t necessarily stop you dying in a car accident. These are not zero sum outcomes.
    More eloquently and persuasively said than my rebuttal.
    Thanks. Given his comments about me in the past, not to mention his habit of blowing up threads with his nonsense. I don’t know why I even give him the time of day.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Alistair said:

    In less than 48 hours Biden's entire domestic agenda is going to be blown up by 9 Democrats who apparently don't understand that the bill is insanely popular.

    https://twitter.com/banditelli/status/1429441028298133506?s=19

    Or 9 Democrats who understand that there are mid-terms next year and the Democrats' control of both Houses is at stake.

    What they are proposing is that the $1trn bill go through, and that the additional $3trn be voted on separately. Pelosi and the Squad don't want that because they know that the $3trn won't pass on its own.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    kinabalu said:

    On topic. The stat in the header that interests me the most is not that related to the UK but that related to Sweden.

    The country that spent most of the first year of the pandemic claiming that lockdowns were not the way to proceed and then suffered as a consequence is now almost the least lockdown sceptic of the whole of Europe.

    Rational people. Learning from experience.
    They bet against vaccines working. A mistake with hindsight for sure, it is worth remembering the pessimism about vaccines at the start. Cummings as much as said that’s what was driving our policy at the start. I guess our population density meant we had to change course much quicker than Sweden. It’s hard to contemplate how horrible things would be if the vaccines hadn’t come through.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,811
    edited August 2021
    4 weeks and we're up to 87% of adults second dosed and 91% first dosed. That's 73% of the population and 70% of the population respectively. I don't see us getting much beyond that without mandatory vaccine passes for leisure activities.
  • MaxPB said:

    4 weeks and we're up to 87% of adults second dosed and 91% first dosed. That 73% of the population and 70% of the population respectively. I don't see us getting much beyond that without mandatory vaccine passes for leisure activities.

    The anti-vaxxers will all end up catching covid in any case - many of them have already done so.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    "Europe Elects
    @EuropeElects
    ·
    1h
    Sweden: Prime Minister Stefan Löfven has announced he will leave his position as leader of the Social Democrats (S-S&D) and Head of Government at the party’s congress in November, less than one year ahead of the country’s general election. "
  • Close correlation to those numbers and vaccination per country.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    TimT said:

    Alistair said:

    In less than 48 hours Biden's entire domestic agenda is going to be blown up by 9 Democrats who apparently don't understand that the bill is insanely popular.

    https://twitter.com/banditelli/status/1429441028298133506?s=19

    Or 9 Democrats who understand that there are mid-terms next year and the Democrats' control of both Houses is at stake.

    What they are proposing is that the $1trn bill go through, and that the additional $3trn be voted on separately. Pelosi and the Squad don't want that because they know that the $3trn won't pass on its own.
    So you'd think passing incredibly popular legislation that has bipartisan support amongst the electorate would be the smart play but no, apparently appeali g to a group of mythical "fiscally responsible" voters who don't exist is what needs to be done
  • maaarsh said:

    DougSeal said:

    32,253 cases....49 deaths.

    Quite high case numbers for a Sunday.
    Numbers remain flat as a pancake in England. Up a mere 93 from last weekend.
    Looks like up 3k to me comparing England cases declared 22nd vs 15th.
    The regional variations are interesting - the south-west getting some heavy gap filling.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Yokes said:

    There are hints that the Taliban leadership are getting pretty frustrated by the scenes at the airport and wider Western evacuation action. Theyve sent some of ther best to the airport approaches to try to shore things up but the unfolding mess there is a problem for them too.

    Their problems trying to govern the country are only just beginning.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    So vaccination does nothing to reduce the risk of hospitilisation.

    What are you smoking, and can I have some of it?
    No I am not saying that. For the vulnerable and older people the vaccines are very useful.
    Your earlier post said exactly that. In reply to a comment saying being vaccinated "overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it", you replied saying that it doesn't.
    Its probably 'overwhelming' if you are an old or vulnerable person, sure, but if you are a young person having a vaccine is of no consequence whatever. You would not be in hospital or die whether you had a vaccine or not. Why? because you are young and healthy.
  • FWIW I think Boris, and Raab took his lead from him, did fanny about but I don't expect a single blow to land on them over Afghanistan because everyone knows the UK was simply rowing in behind US policy on it - and we had no choice.

    A better criticism would be why Boris didn't influence Biden better as Cameron did over a decidedly sceptical Obama over Libya in 2011.

    Cos he ain't no Churchill.....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    edited August 2021

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    Ahem. This was my hospital last Friday, with ambulances unable to offload.

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1428777425731825670?s=19

  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Alistair said:

    In less than 48 hours Biden's entire domestic agenda is going to be blown up by 9 Democrats who apparently don't understand that the bill is insanely popular.

    https://twitter.com/banditelli/status/1429441028298133506?s=19

    Surely he can get some refusenik repubs on board?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    I see imbecilic political slogan is trending. Wait till Tony hears about 45 minutes from destruction and where that led us.

    The closer our politicians have been to the Afghanistan escapade - whether as instigators, supporters, or past participants - the more virulent the language they are using to criticise the current day withdrawal.

    They might want you to think that this is merely because the withdrawal has undone all their purported good work.

    But the truth is that it is having the futility and pointlessness of everything that has gone before so brutally exposed, that they are finding especially difficult to bear.
    Aye.
    Have any of the prominent early C21st warmongers done a mea culpa, or is it at best 'it was the right thing to do imperfectly carried out'? I think even Christopher Hitchens (for whom I have a regard) stuck with it to the end.
    I'd say there's a certain type of ultra muscular, liberal intellectual bruiser whose disdain for the primitive beliefs and rituals of organized religion - and esp Islam - is very very strong. Strong enough to drive many of their positions. Hitchens in his later years seemed more animated by this, his atheism, his alliance with Dawkins, than by any of his old trad left, capitalist skeptic thinking. That seemed to have largely faded.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    https://www.covid19assembly.org/2021/08/the-government-has-based-the-handling-of-the-covid-pandemic-on-flawed-assumptions-say-133-doctors-nurses-paramedics-and-midwives/

    The data on which we are basing your covid assumptions is completely flawed, say some named health professionals.

    Now I stress these are not TSE approved health professionals, nor have they been vetted by experts such as Alistair 100,00 cases. So caveat emptor, naturally.

    These are health professionals we can disregard, because, well, they are nutters obviously. Whereas the doctors we listen to, like Susan Michie and that Pagel woman, are completely above reproach.

    Andy Cook has done all the research for us anyway, and there's no point in arguing.

    It is a masterpiece of nuttery. "nurses-paramedics-and-midwives" - why no hospital porters? chiropodists? dental technicians? Even the actual doctors there are retired spinal surgeons, psychatrists, and comedians like one Orthopaedic Consultant & Lifestyle Medicine Physician.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.covid19assembly.org/2021/08/the-government-has-based-the-handling-of-the-covid-pandemic-on-flawed-assumptions-say-133-doctors-nurses-paramedics-and-midwives/

    The data on which we are basing your covid assumptions is completely flawed, say some named health professionals.

    Now I stress these are not TSE approved health professionals, nor have they been vetted by experts such as Alistair 100,00 cases. So caveat emptor, naturally.

    These are health professionals we can disregard, because, well, they are nutters obviously. Whereas the doctors we listen to, like Susan Michie and that Pagel woman, are completely above reproach.

    Andy Cook has done all the research for us anyway, and there's no point in arguing.

    It is a masterpiece of nuttery. "nurses-paramedics-and-midwives" - why no hospital porters? chiropodists? dental technicians? Even the actual doctors there are retired spinal surgeons, psychatrists, and comedians like one Orthopaedic Consultant & Lifestyle Medicine Physician.
    I warned you. The doctors involved have not been approved by expert doctor vetters on twitter and PB and so you can safely ignore.

    Only engage with the opinions of those medical professionals approved by Sky News and the BBC, such as Christina Pagel and Susan Michie. And that bloke Edmunds who forecast 200,000 cases.

    That way, you will be safe. These are the experts and its their narrative that counts.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,929

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    So vaccination does nothing to reduce the risk of hospitilisation.

    What are you smoking, and can I have some of it?
    No I am not saying that. For the vulnerable and older people the vaccines are very useful.
    Your earlier post said exactly that. In reply to a comment saying being vaccinated "overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it", you replied saying that it doesn't.
    Its probably 'overwhelming' if you are an old or vulnerable person, sure, but if you are a young person having a vaccine is of no consequence whatever. You would not be in hospital or die whether you had a vaccine or not. Why? because you are young and healthy.
    That is totally wrong, complete bollocks. Vaccination dramatically reduces the risk of hospitalisation in *all* age groups.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    So vaccination does nothing to reduce the risk of hospitilisation.

    What are you smoking, and can I have some of it?
    No I am not saying that. For the vulnerable and older people the vaccines are very useful.
    Your earlier post said exactly that. In reply to a comment saying being vaccinated "overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it", you replied saying that it doesn't.
    Its probably 'overwhelming' if you are an old or vulnerable person, sure, but if you are a young person having a vaccine is of no consequence whatever. You would not be in hospital or die whether you had a vaccine or not. Why? because you are young and healthy.
    That is totally wrong, complete bollocks. Vaccination dramatically reduces the risk of hospitalisation in *all* age groups.
    I do not see how you could possibly claim that, given that healthy people under 16 have not even been vaccinated. and medical professionals are not even sure if they should be. They only u-turned on 16 and 17-year olds recently. Healthy young people simply do not suffer much from covid.

    Hence the claim that the young are being used as a human shield for the old.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.covid19assembly.org/2021/08/the-government-has-based-the-handling-of-the-covid-pandemic-on-flawed-assumptions-say-133-doctors-nurses-paramedics-and-midwives/

    The data on which we are basing your covid assumptions is completely flawed, say some named health professionals.

    Now I stress these are not TSE approved health professionals, nor have they been vetted by experts such as Alistair 100,00 cases. So caveat emptor, naturally.

    These are health professionals we can disregard, because, well, they are nutters obviously. Whereas the doctors we listen to, like Susan Michie and that Pagel woman, are completely above reproach.

    Andy Cook has done all the research for us anyway, and there's no point in arguing.

    It is a masterpiece of nuttery. "nurses-paramedics-and-midwives" - why no hospital porters? chiropodists? dental technicians? Even the actual doctors there are retired spinal surgeons, psychatrists, and comedians like one Orthopaedic Consultant & Lifestyle Medicine Physician.
    I was at medical school with one of them. She was quite sane then, though I most remember her for her black plastic mac, like something from a fetish shop. Fond memories!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,929

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    So vaccination does nothing to reduce the risk of hospitilisation.

    What are you smoking, and can I have some of it?
    No I am not saying that. For the vulnerable and older people the vaccines are very useful.
    Your earlier post said exactly that. In reply to a comment saying being vaccinated "overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it", you replied saying that it doesn't.
    Its probably 'overwhelming' if you are an old or vulnerable person, sure, but if you are a young person having a vaccine is of no consequence whatever. You would not be in hospital or die whether you had a vaccine or not. Why? because you are young and healthy.
    That is totally wrong, complete bollocks. Vaccination dramatically reduces the risk of hospitalisation in *all* age groups.
    I do not see how you could possibly claim that, given that healthy people under 16 have not even been vaccinated. and medical professionals are not even sure if they should be. They only u-turned on 16 and 17-year olds recently. Healthy young people simply do not suffer much from covid.

    Hence the claim that the young are being used as a human shield for the old.
    Because I'm looking at actual statistics? And seriously, are you really saying the claim is invalid because it hasn't been tested on under 16 year olds. What about the vast majority of the population older than that?

    Here's a graphic showing the effect of vaccination, even as young as 25-34 the effect is profound.

    https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/files/2021/05/image1.png
  • A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    Yes by vaccinating them. Unless of course you are proposing permanent lockdowns.
    No I am proposing permanent liberty and freedom, you know, that situation that last from 1945 to March 2020....?

    Quarantine and vaccinate the sick and vulnerable. Let healthy people live their lives.

    A statement that only makes sense if you are claiming that vaccinations are somehow infringing your liberty.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    So vaccination does nothing to reduce the risk of hospitilisation.

    What are you smoking, and can I have some of it?
    No I am not saying that. For the vulnerable and older people the vaccines are very useful.
    Your earlier post said exactly that. In reply to a comment saying being vaccinated "overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it", you replied saying that it doesn't.
    Its probably 'overwhelming' if you are an old or vulnerable person, sure, but if you are a young person having a vaccine is of no consequence whatever. You would not be in hospital or die whether you had a vaccine or not. Why? because you are young and healthy.
    This is true La La land stuff. Israel says that for the healthy under 60s, being vaccinated slightly better than halves the risk of hospitalisation. Are they lying about this?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    Yes by vaccinating them. Unless of course you are proposing permanent lockdowns.
    No I am proposing permanent liberty and freedom, you know, that situation that last from 1945 to March 2020....?

    Quarantine and vaccinate the sick and vulnerable. Let healthy people live their lives.

    A statement that only makes sense if you are claiming that vaccinations are somehow infringing your liberty.
    The absolutely aren't. But the choice of vaccination or lockdown definitely is.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.covid19assembly.org/2021/08/the-government-has-based-the-handling-of-the-covid-pandemic-on-flawed-assumptions-say-133-doctors-nurses-paramedics-and-midwives/

    The data on which we are basing your covid assumptions is completely flawed, say some named health professionals.

    Now I stress these are not TSE approved health professionals, nor have they been vetted by experts such as Alistair 100,00 cases. So caveat emptor, naturally.

    These are health professionals we can disregard, because, well, they are nutters obviously. Whereas the doctors we listen to, like Susan Michie and that Pagel woman, are completely above reproach.

    Andy Cook has done all the research for us anyway, and there's no point in arguing.

    It is a masterpiece of nuttery. "nurses-paramedics-and-midwives" - why no hospital porters? chiropodists? dental technicians? Even the actual doctors there are retired spinal surgeons, psychatrists, and comedians like one Orthopaedic Consultant & Lifestyle Medicine Physician.
    I warned you. The doctors involved have not been approved by expert doctor vetters on twitter and PB and so you can safely ignore.

    Only engage with the opinions of those medical professionals approved by Sky News and the BBC, such as Christina Pagel and Susan Michie. And that bloke Edmunds who forecast 200,000 cases.

    That way, you will be safe. These are the experts and its their narrative that counts.
    Well, yes. They are virologists and epidemiologists speaking on issues of virology and epidemiology. Experts.

    As I believe I have already warned you, satire is not as easy as it looks.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    Yes by vaccinating them. Unless of course you are proposing permanent lockdowns.
    No I am proposing permanent liberty and freedom, you know, that situation that last from 1945 to March 2020....?

    Quarantine and vaccinate the sick and vulnerable. Let healthy people live their lives.

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    Yes by vaccinating them. Unless of course you are proposing permanent lockdowns.
    No I am proposing permanent liberty and freedom, you know, that situation that last from 1945 to March 2020....?

    Quarantine and vaccinate the sick and vulnerable. Let healthy people live their lives.

    Pedantic point: the act requiring people to carry ID cards in the Uk was only repeated in 1952.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,523
    edited August 2021
    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    On topic. The stat in the header that interests me the most is not that related to the UK but that related to Sweden.

    The country that spent most of the first year of the pandemic claiming that lockdowns were not the way to proceed and then suffered as a consequence is now almost the least lockdown sceptic of the whole of Europe.

    Bit cheeky to ignore half the survey - in terms of people who think lockdowns work they're very much in the bottom half of the western european countries there.
    Erm no.

    One graph is of those who think lockdowns don't work (do more harm than good) - in Sweden that number is 15%, 3rd from bottom . The other graph is those who think the Covid risks are overstated - in Sweden that number is 14% - the lowest out of those polled.

    Neither shows them in the bottom half of those thinking lockdowns don't work. Exactly the reverse in fact.
    Err no, I'm not referring to the 2nd table at all. The first table includes the number who think Lockdowns work as well as the number who think they don't work (and those who think they make no difference).

    Sweden is pretty near table topping in thinking lockdowns are net neutral, and the number of positives is lower than most of Western Europe - you're basing a conclusion on 1/3rd of the data presented when the rest does not agree.
    That is cherry picking of the very worst kind.

    First you take a subset of the group and look only at Western European Countries. Then you try and limit the 'think they work' to those who only think they do more good than harm when the two points are not comparable. There may be many amongst the 'Do both equally' who think they work but are not sure the social consequences are worth it.

    You have basically drawn an unsustainable conclusion from a partial reading of the data and used that to justify an unsupportable statement.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    edited August 2021
    Foxy said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    Ahem. This was my hospital last Friday, with ambulances unable to offload.

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1428777425731825670?s=19

    Looking at the UK dashboard high cases and low vaccination rates there is a fair correlation, Nottingham, Coventry, Leicester, Peterborough. Birmingham is currently the exception in the Midlands.
  • A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    Yes by vaccinating them. Unless of course you are proposing permanent lockdowns.
    No I am proposing permanent liberty and freedom, you know, that situation that last from 1945 to March 2020....?

    Quarantine and vaccinate the sick and vulnerable. Let healthy people live their lives.

    A statement that only makes sense if you are claiming that vaccinations are somehow infringing your liberty.
    The absolutely aren't. But the choice of vaccination or lockdown definitely is.
    "But your honour, giving me the choice between drinking and driving or going to gaol is infringing my liberties."
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited August 2021
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    So vaccination does nothing to reduce the risk of hospitilisation.

    What are you smoking, and can I have some of it?
    No I am not saying that. For the vulnerable and older people the vaccines are very useful.
    Your earlier post said exactly that. In reply to a comment saying being vaccinated "overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it", you replied saying that it doesn't.
    Its probably 'overwhelming' if you are an old or vulnerable person, sure, but if you are a young person having a vaccine is of no consequence whatever. You would not be in hospital or die whether you had a vaccine or not. Why? because you are young and healthy.
    That is totally wrong, complete bollocks. Vaccination dramatically reduces the risk of hospitalisation in *all* age groups.
    I do not see how you could possibly claim that, given that healthy people under 16 have not even been vaccinated. and medical professionals are not even sure if they should be. They only u-turned on 16 and 17-year olds recently. Healthy young people simply do not suffer much from covid.

    Hence the claim that the young are being used as a human shield for the old.
    Because I'm looking at actual statistics? And seriously, are you really saying the claim is invalid because it hasn't been tested on under 16 year olds. What about the vast majority of the population older than that?

    Here's a graphic showing the effect of vaccination, even as young as 25-34 the effect is profound.

    https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/files/2021/05/image1.png
    Those are not statistics those are projections. But it is interesting, isn't it, that hospitalisations are much higher post vaccination than they were pre-vaccination on the same day last year, as the maths guy pointed out?

    Yes we have delta now, and yes, the numbers would be much higher without vaccination. But you cannot prove the extent of the impact because we have no test experiment in the UK with lower vaxx rates.

    What we do have is a test experiment in the US with delta versus lower vaxx rates. I am have not had a look at those in a while, but I did read that whilst some lo vaxx states were undoubtedly struggling, so were some high vaxx states (eg Hawaii). I also read that Israel is struggling, even though they are quite high vaxx.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,929
    edited August 2021

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    So vaccination does nothing to reduce the risk of hospitilisation.

    What are you smoking, and can I have some of it?
    No I am not saying that. For the vulnerable and older people the vaccines are very useful.
    Your earlier post said exactly that. In reply to a comment saying being vaccinated "overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it", you replied saying that it doesn't.
    Its probably 'overwhelming' if you are an old or vulnerable person, sure, but if you are a young person having a vaccine is of no consequence whatever. You would not be in hospital or die whether you had a vaccine or not. Why? because you are young and healthy.
    That is totally wrong, complete bollocks. Vaccination dramatically reduces the risk of hospitalisation in *all* age groups.
    I do not see how you could possibly claim that, given that healthy people under 16 have not even been vaccinated. and medical professionals are not even sure if they should be. They only u-turned on 16 and 17-year olds recently. Healthy young people simply do not suffer much from covid.

    Hence the claim that the young are being used as a human shield for the old.
    Because I'm looking at actual statistics? And seriously, are you really saying the claim is invalid because it hasn't been tested on under 16 year olds. What about the vast majority of the population older than that?

    Here's a graphic showing the effect of vaccination, even as young as 25-34 the effect is profound.

    https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/files/2021/05/image1.png
    Those are not statistics those are projections. But it is interesting, isn't it, that hospitalisations are much higher post vaccination than they were pre-vaccination on the same day last year, as the maths guy pointed out?

    Yes we have delta now, and yes, the numbers would be much higher without vaccination. But you cannot prove that because we have no test experiment in the UK with lower vaxx rates.

    What we do have is a test experiment in the US with delta versus lower vaxx rates. I am have not had a look at those in a while, but I did read that whilst some lo vaxx states were struggling, so were some high vaxx states.
    You can't be serious? What do you think this is based on?

    And no, comparing two rates on two arbitrary dates really isn't interesting.
  • A mosque manager who sparked fury among worshippers after he shared a social media post that appeared to support the Taliban has been issued with a warning by police.

    Saddique Hussain, general manager of Central Jamia Mosque Ghamkol Sharif in Small Heath, Birmingham, was quizzed by officers after he shared a video showing an armed group of Taliban leaders in Kabul on his Facebook page.

    The post has now been removed and the mosque manager has issued a full apology for any offence caused.

    Mr Hussain said he 'does not and never has supported the Taliban' and 'should have thought before he shared the post'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916539/Police-quiz-manager-Birmingham-mosque.html
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    So vaccination does nothing to reduce the risk of hospitilisation.

    What are you smoking, and can I have some of it?
    No I am not saying that. For the vulnerable and older people the vaccines are very useful.
    Your earlier post said exactly that. In reply to a comment saying being vaccinated "overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it", you replied saying that it doesn't.
    Its probably 'overwhelming' if you are an old or vulnerable person, sure, but if you are a young person having a vaccine is of no consequence whatever. You would not be in hospital or die whether you had a vaccine or not. Why? because you are young and healthy.
    That is totally wrong, complete bollocks. Vaccination dramatically reduces the risk of hospitalisation in *all* age groups.
    I do not see how you could possibly claim that, given that healthy people under 16 have not even been vaccinated. and medical professionals are not even sure if they should be. They only u-turned on 16 and 17-year olds recently. Healthy young people simply do not suffer much from covid.

    Hence the claim that the young are being used as a human shield for the old.
    Australia / NZ: very low rate of vaccination, very intrusive level of non pharmaceutical interventions.

    UK: very high level of vaccination, relatively unintrusive level of NPI.

    Go on, show you have the intellectual flexibility to admit you were wrong on this one, whatever your view of lockdowns.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813

    A mosque manager who sparked fury among worshippers after he shared a social media post that appeared to support the Taliban has been issued with a warning by police.

    Saddique Hussain, general manager of Central Jamia Mosque Ghamkol Sharif in Small Heath, Birmingham, was quizzed by officers after he shared a video showing an armed group of Taliban leaders in Kabul on his Facebook page.

    The post has now been removed and the mosque manager has issued a full apology for any offence caused.

    Mr Hussain said he 'does not and never has supported the Taliban' and 'should have thought before he shared the post'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916539/Police-quiz-manager-Birmingham-mosque.html

    what exactly is his crime?
  • https://www.covid19assembly.org/2021/08/the-government-has-based-the-handling-of-the-covid-pandemic-on-flawed-assumptions-say-133-doctors-nurses-paramedics-and-midwives/

    The data on which we are basing your covid assumptions is completely flawed, say some named health professionals.

    Now I stress these are not TSE approved health professionals, nor have they been vetted by experts such as Alistair 100,00 cases. So caveat emptor, naturally.

    These are health professionals we can disregard, because, well, they are nutters obviously. Whereas the doctors we listen to, like Susan Michie and that Pagel woman, are completely above reproach.

    Andy Cook has done all the research for us anyway, and there's no point in arguing.

    There are 595,000 health professionals currently employed in the UK. The fact that 133 of them turn out to be somewhat unhinged is no real great surprise. Perhaps the only real surprise is that they could find so few.
    As I say, you can disregard them in favour of TSE approved professionals.
    I choose to disregard them in favour of the other 594,867 who chose not to sign the letter.

    Actually by the way a good 10 or 15 of those signatories are retired so if I were to include al the retired medical professionals who chose not to sign the letter the numbers would be even more stark. I consider these signatories to be in a similar vein to the former Dr Andrew Wakefield.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,820
    kinabalu said:

    On topic. The stat in the header that interests me the most is not that related to the UK but that related to Sweden.

    The country that spent most of the first year of the pandemic claiming that lockdowns were not the way to proceed and then suffered as a consequence is now almost the least lockdown sceptic of the whole of Europe.

    Rational people. Learning from experience.
    Plus @Stuart_Dickson !
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593
    Foxy said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    Ahem. This was my hospital last Friday, with ambulances unable to offload.

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1428777425731825670?s=19

    That's about 0.5% of all hospital beds in the UK - occupied in a single day. And that's if you include all the mental health beds, children's wards etc.

    Or 25% of al the critical care beds in the UK. In a single day.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.covid19assembly.org/2021/08/the-government-has-based-the-handling-of-the-covid-pandemic-on-flawed-assumptions-say-133-doctors-nurses-paramedics-and-midwives/

    The data on which we are basing your covid assumptions is completely flawed, say some named health professionals.

    Now I stress these are not TSE approved health professionals, nor have they been vetted by experts such as Alistair 100,00 cases. So caveat emptor, naturally.

    These are health professionals we can disregard, because, well, they are nutters obviously. Whereas the doctors we listen to, like Susan Michie and that Pagel woman, are completely above reproach.

    Andy Cook has done all the research for us anyway, and there's no point in arguing.

    It is a masterpiece of nuttery. "nurses-paramedics-and-midwives" - why no hospital porters? chiropodists? dental technicians? Even the actual doctors there are retired spinal surgeons, psychatrists, and comedians like one Orthopaedic Consultant & Lifestyle Medicine Physician.
    I warned you. The doctors involved have not been approved by expert doctor vetters on twitter and PB and so you can safely ignore.

    Only engage with the opinions of those medical professionals approved by Sky News and the BBC, such as Christina Pagel and Susan Michie. And that bloke Edmunds who forecast 200,000 cases.

    That way, you will be safe. These are the experts and its their narrative that counts.
    Well, yes. They are virologists and epidemiologists speaking on issues of virology and epidemiology. Experts.

    As I believe I have already warned you, satire is not as easy as it looks.
    Neither Michie nor Pagel is a virus expert or an epidemiologist. Neither for that matter is David King, Steve Reicher or Kit Yates. All the leading lights of iSAGE.
  • The FDA is urging people to stop taking veterinary drugs to treat or prevent Covid-19 after receiving multiple reports of patients who have been hospitalized after "self-medicating with ivermectin intended for horses," the FDA says.

    https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1429432187523305472?s=20
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    The FDA is urging people to stop taking veterinary drugs to treat or prevent Covid-19 after receiving multiple reports of patients who have been hospitalized after "self-medicating with ivermectin intended for horses," the FDA says.

    https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1429432187523305472?s=20

    It's a step up from bleach.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Close correlation to those numbers and vaccination per country.

    There’s a pretty strong East-West component too.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    IanB2 said:

    ”As things currently stand, the evidence strongly suggests that Covid-19 arose after a natural spillover event, but nobody is yet in a position to rule out an alternative,” he said.

    This point is backed by Professor James Wood, of Cambridge University. “I think there is very strong evidence for this being caused by natural spillovers but that argument simply does not suit some political groups. They promote the idea that Covid-19 was caused by a lab leak because such a claim deflects attention from increasing evidence that indicates biodiversity loss, deforestation and wildlife trade – which increase the dangers of natural spillovers – are the real dangers that we face from pandemics.”

    In other words, fiddling with viruses in laboratories is not the dangerous activity. The real threat comes from the wildlife trade, bulldozing rainforests and clearing wildernesses to provide land for farms and to gain access to mines. As vegetation and wildlife are destroyed, countless species of viruses and the bacteria they host are set loose to seek new hosts, such as humans and domestic livestock. This has happened with HIV, Sars and very probably Covid-19.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/22/the-wuhan-lab-leak-theory-is-more-about-politics-than-science

    What is the “strong evidence” that he refers to of a natural spillover?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.covid19assembly.org/2021/08/the-government-has-based-the-handling-of-the-covid-pandemic-on-flawed-assumptions-say-133-doctors-nurses-paramedics-and-midwives/

    The data on which we are basing your covid assumptions is completely flawed, say some named health professionals.

    Now I stress these are not TSE approved health professionals, nor have they been vetted by experts such as Alistair 100,00 cases. So caveat emptor, naturally.

    These are health professionals we can disregard, because, well, they are nutters obviously. Whereas the doctors we listen to, like Susan Michie and that Pagel woman, are completely above reproach.

    Andy Cook has done all the research for us anyway, and there's no point in arguing.

    It is a masterpiece of nuttery. "nurses-paramedics-and-midwives" - why no hospital porters? chiropodists? dental technicians? Even the actual doctors there are retired spinal surgeons, psychatrists, and comedians like one Orthopaedic Consultant & Lifestyle Medicine Physician.
    I warned you. The doctors involved have not been approved by expert doctor vetters on twitter and PB and so you can safely ignore.

    Only engage with the opinions of those medical professionals approved by Sky News and the BBC, such as Christina Pagel and Susan Michie. And that bloke Edmunds who forecast 200,000 cases.

    That way, you will be safe. These are the experts and its their narrative that counts.
    Well, yes. They are virologists and epidemiologists speaking on issues of virology and epidemiology. Experts.

    As I believe I have already warned you, satire is not as easy as it looks.
    Neither Michie nor Pagel is a virus expert or an epidemiologist. Neither for that matter is David King, Steve Reicher or Kit Yates. All the leading lights of iSAGE.
    So ignore them. Why do they add credibility to the Consultant in Contraception and Reproductive Health, Consultant Radiologist, Community Mental Health Nurse and all the retired anaesthetists on contrarian's list?
  • Picking two Arsenal defenders in my fantasy football team may not have been my cleverest move.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.covid19assembly.org/2021/08/the-government-has-based-the-handling-of-the-covid-pandemic-on-flawed-assumptions-say-133-doctors-nurses-paramedics-and-midwives/

    The data on which we are basing your covid assumptions is completely flawed, say some named health professionals.

    Now I stress these are not TSE approved health professionals, nor have they been vetted by experts such as Alistair 100,00 cases. So caveat emptor, naturally.

    These are health professionals we can disregard, because, well, they are nutters obviously. Whereas the doctors we listen to, like Susan Michie and that Pagel woman, are completely above reproach.

    Andy Cook has done all the research for us anyway, and there's no point in arguing.

    It is a masterpiece of nuttery. "nurses-paramedics-and-midwives" - why no hospital porters? chiropodists? dental technicians? Even the actual doctors there are retired spinal surgeons, psychatrists, and comedians like one Orthopaedic Consultant & Lifestyle Medicine Physician.
    I warned you. The doctors involved have not been approved by expert doctor vetters on twitter and PB and so you can safely ignore.

    Only engage with the opinions of those medical professionals approved by Sky News and the BBC, such as Christina Pagel and Susan Michie. And that bloke Edmunds who forecast 200,000 cases.

    That way, you will be safe. These are the experts and its their narrative that counts.
    Well, yes. They are virologists and epidemiologists speaking on issues of virology and epidemiology. Experts.

    As I believe I have already warned you, satire is not as easy as it looks.
    Neither Michie nor Pagel is a virus expert or an epidemiologist. Neither for that matter is David King, Steve Reicher or Kit Yates. All the leading lights of iSAGE.
    So ignore them. Why do they add credibility to the Consultant in Contraception and Reproductive Health, Consultant Radiologist, Community Mental Health Nurse and all the retired anaesthetists on contrarian's list?
    The corona centrists, who chart a middle ground between the Contrarians and the iSAGEs of the world, are the only ones to listen to.
  • Picking two Arsenal defenders in my fantasy football team may not have been my cleverest move.

    Picking ANY Arsenal players in your fantasy football team may not be cleverest move....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.covid19assembly.org/2021/08/the-government-has-based-the-handling-of-the-covid-pandemic-on-flawed-assumptions-say-133-doctors-nurses-paramedics-and-midwives/

    The data on which we are basing your covid assumptions is completely flawed, say some named health professionals.

    Now I stress these are not TSE approved health professionals, nor have they been vetted by experts such as Alistair 100,00 cases. So caveat emptor, naturally.

    These are health professionals we can disregard, because, well, they are nutters obviously. Whereas the doctors we listen to, like Susan Michie and that Pagel woman, are completely above reproach.

    Andy Cook has done all the research for us anyway, and there's no point in arguing.

    It is a masterpiece of nuttery. "nurses-paramedics-and-midwives" - why no hospital porters? chiropodists? dental technicians? Even the actual doctors there are retired spinal surgeons, psychatrists, and comedians like one Orthopaedic Consultant & Lifestyle Medicine Physician.
    I warned you. The doctors involved have not been approved by expert doctor vetters on twitter and PB and so you can safely ignore.

    Only engage with the opinions of those medical professionals approved by Sky News and the BBC, such as Christina Pagel and Susan Michie. And that bloke Edmunds who forecast 200,000 cases.

    That way, you will be safe. These are the experts and its their narrative that counts.
    Well, yes. They are virologists and epidemiologists speaking on issues of virology and epidemiology. Experts.

    As I believe I have already warned you, satire is not as easy as it looks.
    Neither Michie nor Pagel is a virus expert or an epidemiologist. Neither for that matter is David King, Steve Reicher or Kit Yates. All the leading lights of iSAGE.
    So ignore them. Why do they add credibility to the Consultant in Contraception and Reproductive Health, Consultant Radiologist, Community Mental Health Nurse and all the retired anaesthetists on contrarian's list?
    I was just making the point that although they seem to be 'goto' for the media none of the people mentioned except Edmunds is a virologist or epidemiologist.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    So vaccination does nothing to reduce the risk of hospitilisation.

    What are you smoking, and can I have some of it?
    No I am not saying that. For the vulnerable and older people the vaccines are very useful.
    Your earlier post said exactly that. In reply to a comment saying being vaccinated "overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it", you replied saying that it doesn't.
    Its probably 'overwhelming' if you are an old or vulnerable person, sure, but if you are a young person having a vaccine is of no consequence whatever. You would not be in hospital or die whether you had a vaccine or not. Why? because you are young and healthy.
    That is totally wrong, complete bollocks. Vaccination dramatically reduces the risk of hospitalisation in *all* age groups.
    I do not see how you could possibly claim that, given that healthy people under 16 have not even been vaccinated. and medical professionals are not even sure if they should be. They only u-turned on 16 and 17-year olds recently. Healthy young people simply do not suffer much from covid.

    Hence the claim that the young are being used as a human shield for the old.
    1. It would be genuinely surprising if vaccination cut hospital risk for all other groups other than the under 16s.

    2. In the US and in most other European countries, under 16s are being vaccinated.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    edited August 2021

    A mosque manager who sparked fury among worshippers after he shared a social media post that appeared to support the Taliban has been issued with a warning by police.

    Saddique Hussain, general manager of Central Jamia Mosque Ghamkol Sharif in Small Heath, Birmingham, was quizzed by officers after he shared a video showing an armed group of Taliban leaders in Kabul on his Facebook page.

    The post has now been removed and the mosque manager has issued a full apology for any offence caused.

    Mr Hussain said he 'does not and never has supported the Taliban' and 'should have thought before he shared the post'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916539/Police-quiz-manager-Birmingham-mosque.html

    what exactly is his crime?
    The article says that there were no criminal offences but the police still warned the man.

    What a country this is.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Was thinking about Iraq. The wrong war at the wrong time. What if it was the right war at the wrong time? Bush 1 had a global coalition lined up with the wind of morality behind them, Saddam having just invaded Kuwait. One wonders what might have happened had they pushed onto Baghdad and what state Iraq would be in now.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    I was led to understand that Arsenal have a defence? Are we going to see it today?
  • Leon it's news when you're not drunk, there's no point posting that you are
  • Picking two Arsenal defenders in my fantasy football team may not have been my cleverest move.

    Picking ANY Arsenal players in your fantasy football team may not be cleverest move....
    Yeah.

    Still it gets easier for Arsenal, they play Man City away next weekend.

    They are going to be bottom of the league with zero points going into the international break aren't they?
  • https://twitter.com/MarkJSmithonMSN/status/1429474456066535426

    Non-existent party, wrong party, genuinely amazing
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.covid19assembly.org/2021/08/the-government-has-based-the-handling-of-the-covid-pandemic-on-flawed-assumptions-say-133-doctors-nurses-paramedics-and-midwives/

    The data on which we are basing your covid assumptions is completely flawed, say some named health professionals.

    Now I stress these are not TSE approved health professionals, nor have they been vetted by experts such as Alistair 100,00 cases. So caveat emptor, naturally.

    These are health professionals we can disregard, because, well, they are nutters obviously. Whereas the doctors we listen to, like Susan Michie and that Pagel woman, are completely above reproach.

    Andy Cook has done all the research for us anyway, and there's no point in arguing.

    It is a masterpiece of nuttery. "nurses-paramedics-and-midwives" - why no hospital porters? chiropodists? dental technicians? Even the actual doctors there are retired spinal surgeons, psychatrists, and comedians like one Orthopaedic Consultant & Lifestyle Medicine Physician.
    I warned you. The doctors involved have not been approved by expert doctor vetters on twitter and PB and so you can safely ignore.

    Only engage with the opinions of those medical professionals approved by Sky News and the BBC, such as Christina Pagel and Susan Michie. And that bloke Edmunds who forecast 200,000 cases.

    That way, you will be safe. These are the experts and its their narrative that counts.
    Well, yes. They are virologists and epidemiologists speaking on issues of virology and epidemiology. Experts.

    As I believe I have already warned you, satire is not as easy as it looks.
    Neither Michie nor Pagel is a virus expert or an epidemiologist. Neither for that matter is David King, Steve Reicher or Kit Yates. All the leading lights of iSAGE.
    So ignore them. Why do they add credibility to the Consultant in Contraception and Reproductive Health, Consultant Radiologist, Community Mental Health Nurse and all the retired anaesthetists on contrarian's list?
    I was just making the point that although they seem to be 'goto' for the media none of the people mentioned except Edmunds is a virologist or epidemiologist.
    Yes, fair point.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Arsenal are having a go here but it’s like they’ve only just been introduced to one another
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    Picking two Arsenal defenders in my fantasy football team may not have been my cleverest move.

    Picking ANY Arsenal players in your fantasy football team may not be cleverest move....
    Yeah.

    Still it gets easier for Arsenal, they play Man City away next weekend.

    They are going to be bottom of the league with zero points going into the international break aren't they?
    Squad full of anti vaxxers getting what they deserve.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Picking two Arsenal defenders in my fantasy football team may not have been my cleverest move.

    Picking ANY Arsenal players in your fantasy football team may not be cleverest move....
    Yeah.

    Still it gets easier for Arsenal, they play Man City away next weekend.

    They are going to be bottom of the league with zero points going into the international break aren't they?
    Chelsea are going to win the League. 3.85 on BFx looks good value.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,811

    Picking two Arsenal defenders in my fantasy football team may not have been my cleverest move.

    Picking ANY Arsenal players in your fantasy football team may not be cleverest move....
    Yeah.

    Still it gets easier for Arsenal, they play Man City away next weekend.

    They are going to be bottom of the league with zero points going into the international break aren't they?
    Yes, Norwich at home is probably their first chance to get a point (though loads of people assumed they'd beat Brentford so who knows). They'll definitely be bottom though.
  • moonshine said:

    Picking two Arsenal defenders in my fantasy football team may not have been my cleverest move.

    Picking ANY Arsenal players in your fantasy football team may not be cleverest move....
    Yeah.

    Still it gets easier for Arsenal, they play Man City away next weekend.

    They are going to be bottom of the league with zero points going into the international break aren't they?
    Squad full of anti vaxxers getting what they deserve.
    Yup, ditto Newcastle.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    ”As things currently stand, the evidence strongly suggests that Covid-19 arose after a natural spillover event, but nobody is yet in a position to rule out an alternative,” he said.

    This point is backed by Professor James Wood, of Cambridge University. “I think there is very strong evidence for this being caused by natural spillovers but that argument simply does not suit some political groups. They promote the idea that Covid-19 was caused by a lab leak because such a claim deflects attention from increasing evidence that indicates biodiversity loss, deforestation and wildlife trade – which increase the dangers of natural spillovers – are the real dangers that we face from pandemics.”

    In other words, fiddling with viruses in laboratories is not the dangerous activity. The real threat comes from the wildlife trade, bulldozing rainforests and clearing wildernesses to provide land for farms and to gain access to mines. As vegetation and wildlife are destroyed, countless species of viruses and the bacteria they host are set loose to seek new hosts, such as humans and domestic livestock. This has happened with HIV, Sars and very probably Covid-19.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/22/the-wuhan-lab-leak-theory-is-more-about-politics-than-science

    A typical Cambridge and the Guardian scientist: goes straight to: Which theory sends the right kind of political message? rather than, Which theory is true? This is the legacy of 20 years of scientists not being sufficiently confident that global warming would actually make itself manifest, and therefore thinking they had to lie about the evidence to be on the safe side.

    Yes, I read that article and felt similarly. It is abundantly clear the evidence now points heavily to lab leak, everybody knows this. Yet that same Guardian journalist has been writing anti-lab-leak articles for 16 months, and quoting the same anti-lab-leak scientists. He can’t just turn around and say Sorry that was all shit, we were all wrong

    It throbs with nostalgic regret and denial, and, even as the fire dies out, a desperate attempt at rekindling the embers.

    And then at the end, an attempt to rewrite inevitable history: even if it did come from the lab (oh god it didn’t, did it??) this is all about our bad treatment of animals, nothing to do with science
    It’s a bad article.

    But it is a fair point that co-mingling of human and animal populations in close proximity (eg house chickens in turkey) results in increased risk of zoonotic episodes
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    TimT said:

    Alistair said:

    In less than 48 hours Biden's entire domestic agenda is going to be blown up by 9 Democrats who apparently don't understand that the bill is insanely popular.

    https://twitter.com/banditelli/status/1429441028298133506?s=19

    Or 9 Democrats who understand that there are mid-terms next year and the Democrats' control of both Houses is at stake.

    What they are proposing is that the $1trn bill go through, and that the additional $3trn be voted on separately. Pelosi and the Squad don't want that because they know that the $3trn won't pass on its own.
    Dems are probably going to lose the house almost regardless of what they do in office - good or bad. They all need to work on that basis.
  • Foxy said:

    Picking two Arsenal defenders in my fantasy football team may not have been my cleverest move.

    Picking ANY Arsenal players in your fantasy football team may not be cleverest move....
    Yeah.

    Still it gets easier for Arsenal, they play Man City away next weekend.

    They are going to be bottom of the league with zero points going into the international break aren't they?
    Chelsea are going to win the League. 3.85 on BFx looks good value.
    Yup, the moment they signed Lukaku it seemed clear.

    I ended backing Lukaku and Salah as top goalscorers this season.

    Ings is 20, might be worth as a trading bet.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    edited August 2021
    moonshine said:

    Picking two Arsenal defenders in my fantasy football team may not have been my cleverest move.

    Picking ANY Arsenal players in your fantasy football team may not be cleverest move....
    Yeah.

    Still it gets easier for Arsenal, they play Man City away next weekend.

    They are going to be bottom of the league with zero points going into the international break aren't they?
    Squad full of anti vaxxers getting what they deserve.
    Is that the new terrance chant....your just a team full of wankers antivaxxers....team full of wankers antivaxxers.

    ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,.....antivaxxer.....
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    moonshine said:

    Picking two Arsenal defenders in my fantasy football team may not have been my cleverest move.

    Picking ANY Arsenal players in your fantasy football team may not be cleverest move....
    Yeah.

    Still it gets easier for Arsenal, they play Man City away next weekend.

    They are going to be bottom of the league with zero points going into the international break aren't they?
    Squad full of anti vaxxers getting what they deserve.
    Is that the new terrance chant....your just a team full of wankers antivaxxers....team full of wankers antivaxxers.

    ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,.....antivaxxer.....
    Every passing season shows how much of a genius Arsene Wenger was.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,564

    Foxy said:

    Picking two Arsenal defenders in my fantasy football team may not have been my cleverest move.

    Picking ANY Arsenal players in your fantasy football team may not be cleverest move....
    Yeah.

    Still it gets easier for Arsenal, they play Man City away next weekend.

    They are going to be bottom of the league with zero points going into the international break aren't they?
    Chelsea are going to win the League. 3.85 on BFx looks good value.
    Yup, the moment they signed Lukaku it seemed clear.

    I ended backing Lukaku and Salah as top goalscorers this season.

    Ings is 20, might be worth as a trading bet.
    Stunning goal by Ings yesterday. Smart bit of business....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,929

    https://twitter.com/MarkJSmithonMSN/status/1429474456066535426

    Non-existent party, wrong party, genuinely amazing

    Who knows, this might be some profound statement about Merkel's policies?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TimT said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Test positivity in FL is 37%.

    Yikes!

    Probably Key West for Christmas won’t happen this year.
    We were looking at exactly that. But no longer. It's going to have to be sherry and the Snowman and Poirot again. Ah well. Mustn't grumble.
    Mustn't grumble. Made me chuckle. Such a quintessentially British approach. Don't hear that phrase at all Stateside.

    PS Question for the PB brains trust: Is "musn't grumble" an oxymoron?
    It’s a self-admonition surely?

    You recognise you are grumbling and tell yourself off for it
  • SAS hacker squad's cover is blown... by a job advert: Special Forces pull listing for £33,000-a-year role to work for secretive Computer Network Operations Exploitation Unit

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9915117/SAS-hacker-squads-cover-blown-job-advert.html

    £33k a year, you aren't exactly going to get the best and the brightest at that level of pay!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,564
    It is looking like everyone with Covid has gone on holiday in the SW.....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,323

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Test positivity in FL is 37%.

    Yikes!

    Probably Key West for Christmas won’t happen this year.
    I presume given how magnetic key west is for anti-government conspiracy theorist nutters, the vaccination rate might be a tad low around those parts
    Yeah, which is a shame cos be and the Wife quite like it.
    Mrs U worked down there for a while. There are worse places to have to spend some time.
    Had one of my best ever meals there in 1988, Tuna steaks and the key lime pie was brilliant. Watched the sun going down , was brilliant. Sure it will be a lot more commercial nowadays mind you.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    edited August 2021

    It is looking like everyone with Covid has gone on holiday in the SW.....

    I am surprised the Cornish separatists aren't manning with the border to keep the grockles out.
This discussion has been closed.