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Britain is among the least lockdown sceptical of 20 European countries – politicalbetting.com

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,093
    Of course they will - tradition is particularly important to the Red Wall, isn't it?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    The impossible rebellion has kicked off this evening at the Guildhall in the City of London right now.

    https://twitter.com/XRebellionUK/status/1429488224179736586?s=20

    Send in the helicopter gunships.
    Rocketing the Guildhall? Should have done it years ago...
    Guildhall, I thought he said Guildford.
    That works .....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    edited August 2021

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    What's the downside, other than they don't do much boosting? Where as the potential downside of inaction seems very large.
  • I posted that yesterday.

    This government is set to fail. Then they can be voted out and go back to being competent again
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    What's the downside, other than they don't do much boosting? Where as the potential downside of inaction seems very large.
    Waste of vaccine which could be exported to 3rd world.
  • FFS Drakeford is closer to Starmer than Corbyn
  • The left strategy is now just to adopt anyone who isn’t Keir Starmer. They’ll be adopting Blair next!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    edited August 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    What's the downside, other than they don't do much boosting? Where as the potential downside of inaction seems very large.
    Waste of vaccine which could be exported to 3rd world.
    Its a drop in the ocean. We have bought his extra pfizer for exactly this reason. And there is shed loads of AZN lying around.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Quincel said:

    At his rally in Alabama on Saturday night, Trump tells the crowd to "take the vaccines" and promptly gets booed.

    Not even Trump can convince these people to get the jab.

    And, that, folks is why we can't have nice things.

    https://twitter.com/SchottHappens/status/1429451640369598476

    Christ. I really don't know how the pandemic ever ends, or even gets down to what I would consider acceptable death rates, in red America.
    Seems Trump has realised the Delta will kill his core vote if they keep refusing the vax.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,093

    This government is set to fail. Then they can be voted out and go back to being competent again
    That sounds very optimistic. I think parties tend to need a few losses before the learn to be competent again.
  • kle4 said:

    This government is set to fail. Then they can be voted out and go back to being competent again
    That sounds very optimistic. I think parties tend to need a few losses before the learn to be competent again.
    Seems to have taken Labour only one? I never considered Ed M particularly incompetent in comparison to what has come next. Less competent than Cameron though.

    I am feeling confident about my Labour poll lead bet
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    IshmaelZ said:

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    What's the downside, other than they don't do much boosting? Where as the potential downside of inaction seems very large.
    Waste of vaccine which could be exported to 3rd world.
    Its a drop in the ocean. And there is shed loads of AZN lying around.
    The other downside is side effects.

    Also, per the STimes piece, there is a worry amongst policy makers that if we do a mass 3rd jab boost and there is still a fourth wave this winter then it will put people off other vaccines in general as they clearly don't work.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    edited August 2021

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    They are certainly connecting pharmacies up to allow them to log vaccinations, which can only be for boosters (possibly to be given at the same time as flu jabs). There doesn't seem to be a big rush though, unlike with the early vax centres.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    edited August 2021

    IshmaelZ said:

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    What's the downside, other than they don't do much boosting? Where as the potential downside of inaction seems very large.
    Waste of vaccine which could be exported to 3rd world.
    Its a drop in the ocean. And there is shed loads of AZN lying around.
    The other downside is side effects.

    Also, per the STimes piece, there is a worry amongst policy makers that if we do a mass 3rd jab boost and there is still a fourth wave this winter then it will put people off other vaccines in general as they clearly don't work.
    That's a BS argument. Not vaccinating and having a 4th wave will do the same. And absolutely no signs of mass vaccine hesitancy in the UK.

    People are clued up enough to know this is gen 1 of thess vaccines, they aren't perfect, but they are having an effect and way way better than nothing.

    I think its far more dangerous not to and we then see masses of grannies filling up ICUs and people are incredibly angry at the government for not doing something and people lose trust.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,093

    kle4 said:

    This government is set to fail. Then they can be voted out and go back to being competent again
    That sounds very optimistic. I think parties tend to need a few losses before the learn to be competent again.
    Seems to have taken Labour only one? I never considered Ed M particularly incompetent in comparison to what has come next. Less competent than Cameron though.

    I am feeling confident about my Labour poll lead bet
    Ed M was fine. Doesn't count if they then go backwards though.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    IshmaelZ said:

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    What's the downside, other than they don't do much boosting? Where as the potential downside of inaction seems very large.
    Waste of vaccine which could be exported to 3rd world.
    Its a drop in the ocean. And there is shed loads of AZN lying around.
    The other downside is side effects.

    Also, per the STimes piece, there is a worry amongst policy makers that if we do a mass 3rd jab boost and there is still a fourth wave this winter then it will put people off other vaccines in general as they clearly don't work.
    This is also why all restrictions need to go.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    This government is set to fail. Then they can be voted out and go back to being competent again
    That sounds very optimistic. I think parties tend to need a few losses before the learn to be competent again.
    Seems to have taken Labour only one? I never considered Ed M particularly incompetent in comparison to what has come next. Less competent than Cameron though.

    I am feeling confident about my Labour poll lead bet
    Ed M was fine. Doesn't count if they then go backwards though.
    Fair point.

    Labour poll lead by the end of the year and I really should lay a Tory majority
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    IshmaelZ said:

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    What's the downside, other than they don't do much boosting? Where as the potential downside of inaction seems very large.
    Waste of vaccine which could be exported to 3rd world.
    Its a drop in the ocean. And there is shed loads of AZN lying around.
    The other downside is side effects.

    Also, per the STimes piece, there is a worry amongst policy makers that if we do a mass 3rd jab boost and there is still a fourth wave this winter then it will put people off other vaccines in general as they clearly don't work.
    That's a BS argument. Not vaccinating and having a 4th wave will do the same. And absolutely no signs of mass vaccine hesitancy in the UK.

    People are clued up enough to know this is gen 1 of th3 vaccines, they aren't perfect, but they are having an effect and way way better than nothing.
    I am only passing on what the article says!!! :smiley:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    edited August 2021

    IshmaelZ said:

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    What's the downside, other than they don't do much boosting? Where as the potential downside of inaction seems very large.
    Waste of vaccine which could be exported to 3rd world.
    Its a drop in the ocean. And there is shed loads of AZN lying around.
    The other downside is side effects.

    Also, per the STimes piece, there is a worry amongst policy makers that if we do a mass 3rd jab boost and there is still a fourth wave this winter then it will put people off other vaccines in general as they clearly don't work.
    That's a BS argument. Not vaccinating and having a 4th wave will do the same. And absolutely no signs of mass vaccine hesitancy in the UK.

    People are clued up enough to know this is gen 1 of th3 vaccines, they aren't perfect, but they are having an effect and way way better than nothing.
    I am only passing on what the article says!!! :smiley:
    Sounds like written by one of the lot who have already made it clear they are idealogically against boosters for reasons of feed the world, and thus making up reasons to support their position.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    TimT said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    So why are ever higher percentages of those in hospital, in ICUs and dying young adults and children? (No need to reply, I know the answer)
    The most recent PHE results published on Friday provide very clear evidence indeed that you are about 11x more likely to end up in the ICU, or dead i’d you are not vaccinated compared to fully vaccinated.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1012644/Technical_Briefing_21.pdf

    And that is for the Delta variant.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    What's the downside, other than they don't do much boosting? Where as the potential downside of inaction seems very large.
    Exactly.

    And given the evidence that mixing vaccines boosts immune response, we rapidly come to the conclusion that there is no - or very little - downside.

    Especially compared to the current situation, where vaccines sit in fridges, counting down to expiration day.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    The left strategy is now just to adopt anyone who isn’t Keir Starmer. They’ll be adopting Blair next!

    I am no fan of Blair, indeed left the Labour Party in the early naughties because of him, but on the radio today he was head and shoulders above either front bench in terms of eloquence and competent argument over events in Afghanistan.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    IshmaelZ said:

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    What's the downside, other than they don't do much boosting? Where as the potential downside of inaction seems very large.
    Waste of vaccine which could be exported to 3rd world.
    The worst of all worlds is allowing vaccines to expire in fridges and freezers.

    We can have a debate about whether we’re best off exporting them to the third world (which may well struggle with distribution of the mRNA vaccines). What we cannot do is simply allow vaccines to expire, unused.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Chib is leaving Doctor Who

    Best news of the year.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    They are certainly connecting pharmacies up to allow them to log vaccinations, which can only be for boosters (possibly to be given at the same time as flu jabs). There doesn't seem to be a big rush though, unlike with the early vax centres.
    The NIVS (National Immunisation & Vaccination System - it's what Covid vaccinations are logged on in a hospital setting) is going down for a couple of hours on Monday to be upgraded to allow flu vaccinations to be logged alongside the Covid Boosters. Also they are going to add the functionality to add vaccinations for 12-15 year patients on the system.

  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    This government is set to fail. Then they can be voted out and go back to being competent again
    That sounds very optimistic. I think parties tend to need a few losses before the learn to be competent again.
    Seems to have taken Labour only one? I never considered Ed M particularly incompetent in comparison to what has come next. Less competent than Cameron though.

    I am feeling confident about my Labour poll lead bet
    Ed M was fine. Doesn't count if they then go backwards though.
    Ed M was competent, in much the same way that Hague was competent. They were just woefully underprepared for the job they had to do.

    But the next time the Conservatives are choosing a Leader of the Opposition, I can't see them choosing wisely.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Foxy said:

    The left strategy is now just to adopt anyone who isn’t Keir Starmer. They’ll be adopting Blair next!

    I am no fan of Blair, indeed left the Labour Party in the early naughties because of him, but on the radio today he was head and shoulders above either front bench in terms of eloquence and competent argument over events in Afghanistan.
    One wonders whether there is a young Blair out there who is attracted to joining today's Labour party?

    Or to any party?

    Maybe it is an age thing, but today's front benches seem like pygmies compared to the politicians I first grew up watching and listening to.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    edited August 2021

    FFS Drakeford is closer to Starmer than Corbyn

    You really know nothing about Labour Politics do you

    Mark Drakeford is an unadulterated Corbynite and a very effective one to boot.


    He was the only sitting Cabinet member in any part of the UK to support Jeremy Corbyn in his bid for the national leadership of the Labour Party in 2015, while he was Minister for Health and Social Services.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    stodge said:

    darkage said:

    With regard to the header, is there a link between societies that are more religious and scepticism about COVID, and the policies (ie lockdowns) associated with it?

    Certainly in the UK, there was a strong element of COVID compliance as a sort of secular faith: ie the NHS as a religion.

    While the first sentence is a reasonable attempt to try to define a pattern, the second is unintelligible gibberish.

    People complied with Covid restrictions because they "worship" the religion that is the NHS,

    Seriously - can we get away from these incoherent ramblings on here?
    There’s something there - the NHS has a powerful symbolism in the UK above that which a health system should a priori have. It meant that “protect the nhs” was a very effective way to generate high levels of compliance
  • SAS hacker squad's cover is blown... by a job advert: Special Forces pull listing for £33,000-a-year role to work for secretive Computer Network Operations Exploitation Unit

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9915117/SAS-hacker-squads-cover-blown-job-advert.html

    £33k a year, you aren't exactly going to get the best and the brightest at that level of pay!

    They are obviously not paying enough to whoever places their adverts either.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    As Kabul falls the first tweets saying it heralds the arrival of a new Islamic superpower have arrived
    https://twitter.com/novicus/status/1429087620336787460?s=20

    Quite how they deal with the Sunni and Shia divide though is another matter
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    This government is set to fail. Then they can be voted out and go back to being competent again
    That sounds very optimistic. I think parties tend to need a few losses before the learn to be competent again.
    Seems to have taken Labour only one? I never considered Ed M particularly incompetent in comparison to what has come next. Less competent than Cameron though.

    I am feeling confident about my Labour poll lead bet
    Ed M was fine. Doesn't count if they then go backwards though.
    Ed M was competent, in much the same way that Hague was competent. They were just woefully underprepared for the job they had to do.

    But the next time the Conservatives are choosing a Leader of the Opposition, I can't see them choosing wisely.
    As long as they save electing Patel as leader until they are firmly in Opposition I am reasonably content.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Nigelb said:

    TimT said:

    A concerning thread on where we are...


    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver
    Thread: A year ago today we saw the lowest ever recorded number of COVID hospital admissions in England. The 22nd August 2020 figure was 25. I expect 22nd August 2021 will be around 800: that's five doublings higher, and I don't think that's good news, to say the least.

    https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1429397533428695040

    Its why I don't understand the pissing about with booster jabs. Get em done.
    800 admissions is jut over 1 per parliamentary constituency - hardly overwhelming hospitals is it?
    800 people in hospital who don't need to be. I would suggest that is something worth trying to avoid if all it takes is a jab.
    Being double jabbed does not stop you getting covid, getting covid seriously, or passing on covid.
    It overwhelmingly stops you ending up in hospital or dying of it.
    No what stops you ending up in hospital is your age, overall fitness, and whether you have co-morbidities or not. Why do you think we protect the vulnerable?
    So why are ever higher percentages of those in hospital, in ICUs and dying young adults and children? (No need to reply, I know the answer)
    The most recent PHE results published on Friday provide very clear evidence indeed that you are about 11x more likely to end up in the ICU, or dead i’d you are not vaccinated compared to fully vaccinated.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1012644/Technical_Briefing_21.pdf

    And that is for the Delta variant.
    Here is the maths showing that #vaccineswork against severe outcomes for Delta.
    The hospitalisation and death counts are taken as the difference between those reported to 15 August and those reported to 2 August, the latter from Technical Briefing 20

    https://twitter.com/AdeleGroyer/status/1428755006921003010
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited August 2021

    Taz said:

    Chib is leaving Doctor Who

    This is not new news. It’s been known for months. The grapevine is they want a woman replacement and have someone in mind,
    I'm hoping they give it to J. Michael Straczynski.

    https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-j-michael-straczynski-contact-bbc-showrunner-newsupdate/

    Although it will be fun to see Doctor Who turned into a rip off of Lord of the Rings.

    If you go to the Z'ha'dum...
    MJZ can do broad sweeping ploy struxtire but sone of the dialogue on B5 was absolutely earth shatteringly awful - much of it was savedonly by the straight faced earnest delivery.

    Aldo the absolute coup of having Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulis just casually filling a couple of key opposed roles with absolute and complete mastery and aplomb.

    What Katsulas did with his eyes alone is an acting masterclass in itself.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    jonny83 said:

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    They are certainly connecting pharmacies up to allow them to log vaccinations, which can only be for boosters (possibly to be given at the same time as flu jabs). There doesn't seem to be a big rush though, unlike with the early vax centres.
    The NIVS (National Immunisation & Vaccination System - it's what Covid vaccinations are logged on in a hospital setting) is going down for a couple of hours on Monday to be upgraded to allow flu vaccinations to be logged alongside the Covid Boosters. Also they are going to add the functionality to add vaccinations for 12-15 year patients on the system.

    Ah. Thanks. That makes sense. I only get to see the pipes going in!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    It is madness that we have vaccines lying around, unused.

    People who got Pfizer early on, should be given an AZ booster.
    People who got AZ early on, should be given a Pfizer/Moderna booster.

    12-16 year olds whose parents want them to have the vaccine should be vaccinated.

    And we should be experimenting with nasally administered boosters. The double positive of nasal administration is that it makes it even easier to adminster, and is less "scary" than a needle.
    Nasal administration is not trivial in vaccine development. It took ages for MedImmune (AstraZeneca) to make FluMist work
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    pigeon said:

    moonshine said:

    @Alistair you are of course correct that you didn’t predict 100,000 cases a day. I think your mocking of those who saw signs of slowing/plateauing in the cases in the weekly variance led you to being lumped in with them. And yet there were signs there, and we are where we are.
    Re where we go now, I think it’s likely that we will see an effect of the English schools returning, but how much that adds to the hospital burden we shall have to see.

    Most big employers were happy for July to be a soft deadline for back to work and instead have said Sept (or sometimes Oct) is when they expect staff back under whatever new hybrid model is being adopted. That will be people on public transport, mostly wearing shit masks that in the face of delta do little more than give the wearer confidence, and then all day in an office with no mask and windows that quite often don’t open.
    I'm not so sure. Many businesses are being extremely cautious. My employer (a large manufacturing concern) is still implementing almost exactly the same protocols for mask wearing, social distancing and officey types working as much as possible from home as it was in January. Shielding employees have been allowed back and that's just about it. They're very reluctant indeed to let the rest of it go.

    I reckon that an awful lot of office-based companies, in particular, that are thinking of bringing people back will reverse ferret at the first sign of a major resurgence in cases.
    Our New York colleagues have pushed from Labor Day to mid October
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2021
    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    IshmaelZ said:

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    What's the downside, other than they don't do much boosting? Where as the potential downside of inaction seems very large.
    Waste of vaccine which could be exported to 3rd world.
    Its a drop in the ocean. We have bought his extra pfizer for exactly this reason. And there is shed loads of AZN lying around.
    More to the point its not supposed to be within the remit of the JCVI
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Amazing black and red sky with rainbow sunset here in the Midlands. Witch weather.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    @Alistair you are of course correct that you didn’t predict 100,000 cases a day. I think your mocking of those who saw signs of slowing/plateauing in the cases in the weekly variance led you to being lumped in with them. And yet there were signs there, and we are where we are.
    Re where we go now, I think it’s likely that we will see an effect of the English schools returning, but how much that adds to the hospital burden we shall have to see.

    Most big employers were happy for July to be a soft deadline for back to work and instead have said Sept (or sometimes Oct) is when they expect staff back under whatever new hybrid model is being adopted. That will be people on public transport, mostly wearing shit masks that in the face of delta do little more than give the wearer confidence, and then all day in an office with no mask and windows that quite often don’t open.
    The purpose of the mask is to prevent people with Delta (or any other variant) from spreading it to others. Surgeons wear masks to prevent their patients getting sick, not to protect them.

    Almost any covering will have an impact on the spread of viral matter. And even if you are still letting 50% of the viral load through (which you probably aren't), that's still cut your infectiousness in half. Plus, of course, viral load matters.
    Funnily enough I am aware of that. I just doubt at this point there is as much useful utility from cloth or even blue surgical masks in confined spaces as you think, for a virus that most seem to believe is aerosolised and is certainly many times more infectious than the original strain.

    It’s no longer going to move the dial enough I don’t think, if it ever did. Hate to say it but I think we’re not out of this until we get to the point of quick production and delivery of strain specific boosters, which isn’t going to be until 2022 at best.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    It is madness that we have vaccines lying around, unused.

    People who got Pfizer early on, should be given an AZ booster.
    People who got AZ early on, should be given a Pfizer/Moderna booster.

    12-16 year olds whose parents want them to have the vaccine should be vaccinated.

    And we should be experimenting with nasally administered boosters. The double positive of nasal administration is that it makes it even easier to adminster, and is less "scary" than a needle.
    Nasal administration is not trivial in vaccine development. It took ages for MedImmune (AstraZeneca) to make FluMist work
    There is a trial ongoing, isn’t there ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    What's the downside, other than they don't do much boosting? Where as the potential downside of inaction seems very large.
    Waste of vaccine which could be exported to 3rd world.
    The worst of all worlds is allowing vaccines to expire in fridges and freezers.

    We can have a debate about whether we’re best off exporting them to the third world (which may well struggle with distribution of the mRNA vaccines). What we cannot do is simply allow vaccines to expire, unused.
    Adam fuckwit Finn is getting likes and cheers from all the 🌸 roasters on twitter.
    He seems to have vaccination and victimisation as one and the same, the JCVI has a huge problem right now tbh
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    What's the downside, other than they don't do much boosting? Where as the potential downside of inaction seems very large.
    Waste of vaccine which could be exported to 3rd world.
    The worst of all worlds is allowing vaccines to expire in fridges and freezers.

    We can have a debate about whether we’re best off exporting them to the third world (which may well struggle with distribution of the mRNA vaccines). What we cannot do is simply allow vaccines to expire, unused.
    Adam fuckwit Finn is getting likes and cheers from all the 🌸 roasters on twitter.
    He seems to have vaccination and victimisation as one and the same, the JCVI has a huge problem right now tbh
    What is a flower roaster?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
  • Alistair said:

    Taz said:

    Chib is leaving Doctor Who

    This is not new news. It’s been known for months. The grapevine is they want a woman replacement and have someone in mind,
    I'm hoping they give it to J. Michael Straczynski.

    https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-j-michael-straczynski-contact-bbc-showrunner-newsupdate/

    Although it will be fun to see Doctor Who turned into a rip off of Lord of the Rings.

    If you go to the Z'ha'dum...
    MJZ can do broad sweeping ploy struxtire but sone of the dialogue on B5 was absolutely earth shatteringly awful - much of it was savedonly by the straight faced earnest delivery.

    Aldo the absolute coup of having Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulis just casually filling a couple of key opposed roles with absolute and complete mastery and aplomb.

    What Katsulas did with his eyes alone is an acting masterclass in itself.
    Absolutely agree.

    I just want Doctor Who to have plot twists to rival 'War Without End' or why the Minbari surrendered at the Battle of the Line.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    I posted that yesterday.

    This government is set to fail. Then they can be voted out and go back to being competent again
    What does SKS say about HS2?
  • valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 606

    FFS Drakeford is closer to Starmer than Corbyn

    Not sure if I agree with you on that.
  • Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    What's the downside, other than they don't do much boosting? Where as the potential downside of inaction seems very large.
    Waste of vaccine which could be exported to 3rd world.
    The worst of all worlds is allowing vaccines to expire in fridges and freezers.

    We can have a debate about whether we’re best off exporting them to the third world (which may well struggle with distribution of the mRNA vaccines). What we cannot do is simply allow vaccines to expire, unused.
    Adam fuckwit Finn is getting likes and cheers from all the 🌸 roasters on twitter.
    He seems to have vaccination and victimisation as one and the same, the JCVI has a huge problem right now tbh
    My father knows/worked with Adam Finn.

    Genuinely mystified by his positions....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Florida becomes first US state where the daily deaths in current wave have exceeded previous waves.
    https://twitter.com/VincentRK/status/1429489529275158531
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Nasal administration?

    EICIPM is making a comeback??
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    valleyboy said:

    FFS Drakeford is closer to Starmer than Corbyn

    Not sure if I agree with you on that.
    And I second that :)

    Drakeford is closer to Corbyn than SKS (with the possible exception of Europe).
  • I posted that yesterday.

    This government is set to fail. Then they can be voted out and go back to being competent again
    And now you finally are coming around to understanding the logic of Brexit and the meaning of sovereignty.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Alistair said:

    Taz said:

    Chib is leaving Doctor Who

    This is not new news. It’s been known for months. The grapevine is they want a woman replacement and have someone in mind,
    I'm hoping they give it to J. Michael Straczynski.

    https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-j-michael-straczynski-contact-bbc-showrunner-newsupdate/

    Although it will be fun to see Doctor Who turned into a rip off of Lord of the Rings.

    If you go to the Z'ha'dum...
    MJZ can do broad sweeping ploy struxtire but sone of the dialogue on B5 was absolutely earth shatteringly awful - much of it was savedonly by the straight faced earnest delivery.

    Aldo the absolute coup of having Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulis just casually filling a couple of key opposed roles with absolute and complete mastery and aplomb.

    What Katsulas did with his eyes alone is an acting masterclass in itself.
    Absolutely agree.

    I just want Doctor Who to have plot twists to rival 'War Without End' or why the Minbari surrendered at the Battle of the Line.
    I’d settle for it getting back to decent stories tbh.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Driving on a single carriageway A road today, the national speed limit changed to 60 at junctions then back to NSL afterwards. I would have thought they'd want you to slow for junctions but I cant see this could have any legal effect. Could be a psychological ploy but if you're going to the expense of putting extra signs in might as well make it a 50.
  • valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 606

    FFS Drakeford is closer to Starmer than Corbyn

    You really know nothing about Labour Politics do you

    Mark Drakeford is an unadulterated Corbynite and a very effective one to boot.


    He was the only sitting Cabinet member in any part of the UK to support Jeremy Corbyn in his bid for the national leadership of the Labour Party in 2015, while he was Minister for Health and Social Services.
    Quite right. I am disappointed that he intends standing down before the next Welsh elections before his policies really start to gather 'momentum'. I dont think the public or the London press have quite cottoned on yet.
  • Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    DougSeal said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    I read quite a persuasive thread on Twitter that argued that at this point boosters will make very little difference. Will try and dig it out.
    Fairly long piece in today's Sunday Times on boosters.

    Summary: We don't have the data yet to decide, but NHS is prepping so that we can do it if needed this autumn. The very vulnerable will almost certainly get a boost e.g. immune suppressed.
    What's the downside, other than they don't do much boosting? Where as the potential downside of inaction seems very large.
    Waste of vaccine which could be exported to 3rd world.
    The worst of all worlds is allowing vaccines to expire in fridges and freezers.

    We can have a debate about whether we’re best off exporting them to the third world (which may well struggle with distribution of the mRNA vaccines). What we cannot do is simply allow vaccines to expire, unused.
    Adam fuckwit Finn is getting likes and cheers from all the 🌸 roasters on twitter.
    He seems to have vaccination and victimisation as one and the same, the JCVI has a huge problem right now tbh
    What the hell is up with 🌸 and Twitter lately?

    I don't use Twitter. I've made about 30 Tweets in about 13 years, mainly escalating complaints to customer service of companies (since that seems to get a prompter than phoning them sometimes). But I have the app installed and in the past I've gotten a few stories pushed as notifications when there's breaking news sometimes - few and far between.

    But the last few weeks I've been getting almost daily push notifications of Tweets from someone with a 🌸 in their name. All ludicrous antivax conspiracies or complaints or rabbit hole garbage. None from anyone I follow.

    I have no idea why on Earth Twitter has suddenly decided to send push notifications of these things, but its not healthy or impressive. Its all gibberish.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Nigelb said:

    Florida becomes first US state where the daily deaths in current wave have exceeded previous waves.
    https://twitter.com/VincentRK/status/1429489529275158531

    It is hard to tell wit Florida's sporadic releasing of data but I think they have at least 10 days of death growth baked into their figures going forward.

    They could well hit the UK equivalent of 1000 a day.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    valleyboy said:

    FFS Drakeford is closer to Starmer than Corbyn

    Not sure if I agree with you on that.
    And I second that :)

    Drakeford is closer to Corbyn than SKS (with the possible exception of Europe).
    Given Wales is the only part of the UK that voted for Corbyn in either 2017 or 2019 hardly a surprise, Labour did not need to change from Corbynism to win Wales, it does need to change from Corbynism to win England and Scotland however
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459

    My firm is looking at 2 days a week in the office. I’d be happy with that.

    I think I might be going against the herd....after being a long time WFHer, just as everybody else is embracing it, I am current considering a new opportunity that will see me give up WFH....am I crazy?
    I'd probably prefer to be in the office 3/4 days per week but I couldn't cope with the increased costs of petrol/parking/lunch/coffee, etc.
  • Nigelb said:

    Florida becomes first US state where the daily deaths in current wave have exceeded previous waves.
    https://twitter.com/VincentRK/status/1429489529275158531

    Not possible. @contrarian said that Florida has shown us the light.

    What has @contrarian got to say about De Santis lately?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Off topic, LOL paradox time

    "Landmark research [on honesty] adopted by governments and insurance companies is found to be based on falsified data; Israeli-American researcher denies knowing the information was faked."

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/claims-swirl-around-academic-ariely-after-honesty-study-found-to-be-dishonest/
  • Alistair said:

    Nigelb said:

    Florida becomes first US state where the daily deaths in current wave have exceeded previous waves.
    https://twitter.com/VincentRK/status/1429489529275158531

    It is hard to tell wit Florida's sporadic releasing of data but I think they have at least 10 days of death growth baked into their figures going forward.

    They could well hit the UK equivalent of 1000 a day.
    More 9 months after the authorisation of vaccines, that is a truly depressing concept.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    Foxy said:

    The left strategy is now just to adopt anyone who isn’t Keir Starmer. They’ll be adopting Blair next!

    I am no fan of Blair, indeed left the Labour Party in the early naughties because of him, but on the radio today he was head and shoulders above either front bench in terms of eloquence and competent argument over events in Afghanistan.
    Yes, I listened to the same Blair interview. I didn't agree with his argument. But he speaks so well, and argues so compellingly, that he really gave me pause for thought. I'm no fan either, but he is head and shoulders above anybody else around at the moment in making a cogent, intelligent argument. He makes Starmer look very ordinary and Johnson look very poor. Incidentally, despite the Mail headlines, he made it very clear that he's got a lot of time for Biden - he just thinks the Afghanistan decision, not Biden himself, is imbecilic.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Foxy said:

    The left strategy is now just to adopt anyone who isn’t Keir Starmer. They’ll be adopting Blair next!

    I am no fan of Blair, indeed left the Labour Party in the early naughties because of him, but on the radio today he was head and shoulders above either front bench in terms of eloquence and competent argument over events in Afghanistan.
    It night that when I heard him on the radio earlier. He knows his argument, explains it clearly, and sounds convincing. As long as it’s not complete madness you don’t need much more than that
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2021
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him or went third party in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
    Trump wont be the GOP nominee. He is a loser at the end of the day.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Do not try this at home…
    Henri has destroyed our nation's largest Ivermectin Factory. The supply should run out in 3 days
    The good news: you can find decent amounts of Ivermectin in the stool of livestock. Four cups of livestock stool = 200mg of Ivermectin. Grab your gun & head to a farm RIGHT NOW

    https://twitter.com/HotWeatherTake/status/1429500686019006474
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    A US charter airline startup, Global X, has 2 Airbus planes according to their website. The site says its partners are casinos, cruise lines, resorts and cargo companies. Both planes just flew into kabul from Dushanbe. Who's likely chartering these?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
    Trump wont be the GOP nominee. He is a loser at the end of the day.
    As in, how he lost WH 2016? Putting it another way, what if the end of the relevant day is post 2024? Extraordinary claim.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited August 2021

    A US charter airline startup, Global X, has 2 Airbus planes according to their website. The site says its partners are casinos, cruise lines, resorts and cargo companies. Both planes just flew into kabul from Dushanbe. Who's likely chartering these?

    US govt. I have just read they are chartering civvy planes. Will look for source.

    edit

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/22/afghanistan-evacuations-commercial-airlines-pentagon
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    edited August 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
    Trump wont be the GOP nominee. He is a loser at the end of the day.
    As in, how he lost WH 2016? Putting it another way, what if the end of the relevant day is post 2024? Extraordinary claim.
    1) He is a busted flush. 2) The guy might even be dead in 2024. He is ancient and unhealthy after all.

    It'll be someone from the GOP's next gen and they might very well win it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
    Trump wont be the GOP nominee. He is a loser at the end of the day.
    54% of GOP primary voters would vote for Trump if he runs again on the latest poll, miles ahead of De Santis on 11% in second and Pence on 8% in third.
    https://mclaughlinonline.com/pols/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/National-Monthly-Omnibus-8-2021-Release-.pdf

    Remember most of the MAGA crowd don't think he lost in 2020 anyway but the election was stolen from him
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
    Trump wont be the GOP nominee. He is a loser at the end of the day.
    54% of GOP primary voters would vote for Trump if he runs again on the latest poll, miles ahead of De Santis on 11% in second and Pence on 8% in third.
    https://mclaughlinonline.com/pols/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/National-Monthly-Omnibus-8-2021-Release-.pdf

    Remember most of the MAGA crowd don't think he lost in 2020 anyway but the election was stolen from him
    Irrelevant really.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited August 2021
    Sweden’s prime minister Stefan Löfven is standing down in the autumn.

    I think he has done really well in the circumstances. I might even miss him. I did not vote for either of the minority coalition parties, nor the two centrist parties which gave him confidence and supply. But fair’s fair, he’s done a good job.

    https://www.dn.se/sverige/lofven-jag-vet-att-det-ar-ratt-beslut/
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    It's not even guaranteed Trump will run
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
    Trump wont be the GOP nominee. He is a loser at the end of the day.
    54% of GOP primary voters would vote for Trump if he runs again on the latest poll, miles ahead of De Santis on 11% in second and Pence on 8% in third.
    https://mclaughlinonline.com/pols/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/National-Monthly-Omnibus-8-2021-Release-.pdf

    Remember most of the MAGA crowd don't think he lost in 2020 anyway but the election was stolen from him
    Biden 51.3%
    Trump 46.9%
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    I'd like to know why people think I was predicting 100,000 cases a day?

    Multiple people have said that now and they are either entirely misguided or bare faced liars.

    We ain't done yet. Let's see what happens in September, though we aren't close to it yet.
    Schools going back (especially as younger cohorts have not been vaccinated in the UK) will act as an accelerant on cases.

    I don't think we'll reach 100k/day, but I think it could be pretty close. 100k is - after all - just two doublings from here.

    Now, a lot of the growth will be concentrated in the young: but those kids will take Delta back to granny, and that is a risk.

    I've been one of the most consistently optimistic posters on here, and I think we'll weather this, but the Autumn could be quite difficult for us.

    Random musings:

    - I suspect countries that were happy to mix-and-match vaccines will end up doing better this time. We should (and could) have done that.

    - I suspect that nasally administered vaccines will turn out to be much more effective in stopping people catching and spreading Delta, as it means that the immune system is primed in the right place.

    - Viral load matters - the bigger the dose of the virus you get, the more likely you are to get really sick. And schools full of kids with Delta (plus public transport) are going to be absolutely appalling from that perspective. Expect a lot of teachers / bus drivers to get pretty sick.
    Seems to me that if we’re stubbornly at 30k cases a day now, the most amenable time of the year in every way, it’s almost certain we’ll get to 100k per day before Xmas, with season effect, schools, unis, and the great Back To Work. The only reason I can see that we wouldn’t is if testing rates fall back.

    Whether that level of cases matters or not we shall see. Failing to go gangbusters with the boosters will I fear be perhaps the governments gravest mistake so far in all this.
    It is madness that we have vaccines lying around, unused.

    People who got Pfizer early on, should be given an AZ booster.
    People who got AZ early on, should be given a Pfizer/Moderna booster.

    12-16 year olds whose parents want them to have the vaccine should be vaccinated.

    And we should be experimenting with nasally administered boosters. The double positive of nasal administration is that it makes it even easier to adminster, and is less "scary" than a needle.
    Nasal administration is not trivial in vaccine development. It took ages for MedImmune (AstraZeneca) to make FluMist work
    There is a trial ongoing, isn’t there ?
    I think so (from memory).
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Foxy said:

    The left strategy is now just to adopt anyone who isn’t Keir Starmer. They’ll be adopting Blair next!

    I am no fan of Blair, indeed left the Labour Party in the early naughties because of him, but on the radio today he was head and shoulders above either front bench in terms of eloquence and competent argument over events in Afghanistan.
    Yes, I listened to the same Blair interview. I didn't agree with his argument. But he speaks so well, and argues so compellingly, that he really gave me pause for thought. I'm no fan either, but he is head and shoulders above anybody else around at the moment in making a cogent, intelligent argument. He makes Starmer look very ordinary and Johnson look very poor. Incidentally, despite the Mail headlines, he made it very clear that he's got a lot of time for Biden - he just thinks the Afghanistan decision, not Biden himself, is imbecilic.
    Blair has magical powers of persuasion.

    That is unfortunately how he entranced & bedazzled the Labour Party into supporting disastrous Middle East interventions in the first place.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896
    edited August 2021
    Taz said:

    Chib is leaving Doctor Who

    This is not new news. It’s been known for months. The grapevine is they want a woman replacement and have someone in mind,
    Chib wrecked it by making the lady Doctor useless, surrounding her with a cast that can't act, and glacial stories. At least, that's how it was when I stopped watching some time ago.

    ETA I see you can bet on who will play the next Doctor.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited August 2021

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
    Trump wont be the GOP nominee. He is a loser at the end of the day.
    As in, how he lost WH 2016? Putting it another way, what if the end of the relevant day is post 2024? Extraordinary claim.
    1) He is a busted flush. 2) The guy might even be dead in 2024. He is ancient and unhealthy after all.

    It'll be someone from the GOP's next gen and they might very well win it.
    Busted flush is just swapping metaphors. Very rich 70 something teetotallers are virtually guaranteed to survive into their 90s. People still seem to be turning up to his rallies.

  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332

    A US charter airline startup, Global X, has 2 Airbus planes according to their website. The site says its partners are casinos, cruise lines, resorts and cargo companies. Both planes just flew into kabul from Dushanbe. Who's likely chartering these?

    It could be US govt but possibly private. A number of private initiatives in US trying to get Afghans out has chartered aircraft but has had trouble getting slots at KBL faciliated by the US operation.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    A US charter airline startup, Global X, has 2 Airbus planes according to their website. The site says its partners are casinos, cruise lines, resorts and cargo companies. Both planes just flew into kabul from Dushanbe. Who's likely chartering these?

    US govt. I have just read they are chartering civvy planes. Will look for source.

    edit

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/22/afghanistan-evacuations-commercial-airlines-pentagon
    Though interestingly the US defence department had said this afternoon that they would not be using their chartered planes to actually fly into Kabul, only to fly the refugees on from safe airports outside of Afghanistan so freeing up US military capacity for the Kabul runs.

    Given that every plane I have seen fly out of Kabul on the news the last few days has been using anti-missile systems I am surprised if the US military is using aircraft that are not equipped in this manner.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
    Trump wont be the GOP nominee. He is a loser at the end of the day.
    As in, how he lost WH 2016? Putting it another way, what if the end of the relevant day is post 2024? Extraordinary claim.
    1) He is a busted flush. 2) The guy might even be dead in 2024. He is ancient and unhealthy after all.

    It'll be someone from the GOP's next gen and they might very well win it.
    Busted flush is just swapping metaphors. Very rich 70 something teetotallers are virtually guaranteed to survive into their 90s. People still seem to be turning up to his rallies.

    Well that may be your view, but my view is that he won't even run and risk losing the primaries, never mind the election.

    Trump is the past, even to the GOP.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
    Trump wont be the GOP nominee. He is a loser at the end of the day.
    As in, how he lost WH 2016? Putting it another way, what if the end of the relevant day is post 2024? Extraordinary claim.
    1) He is a busted flush. 2) The guy might even be dead in 2024. He is ancient and unhealthy after all.

    It'll be someone from the GOP's next gen and they might very well win it.
    Busted flush is just swapping metaphors. Very rich 70 something teetotallers are virtually guaranteed to survive into their 90s. People still seem to be turning up to his rallies.

    Well that may be your view, but my view is that he won't even run and risk losing the primaries, never mind the election.

    Trump is the past, even to the GOP.
    He'll run.

    Bookmark this.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Yokes said:

    It could be US govt but possibly private. A number of private initiatives in US trying to get Afghans out has chartered aircraft but has had trouble getting slots at KBL faciliated by the US operation.

    Any chance of opening Bagram?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
    Trump wont be the GOP nominee. He is a loser at the end of the day.
    54% of GOP primary voters would vote for Trump if he runs again on the latest poll, miles ahead of De Santis on 11% in second and Pence on 8% in third.
    https://mclaughlinonline.com/pols/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/National-Monthly-Omnibus-8-2021-Release-.pdf

    Remember most of the MAGA crowd don't think he lost in 2020 anyway but the election was stolen from him
    Biden 51.3%
    Trump 46.9%
    Age by which normal children develop theory of mind: 4
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    I gather Trump has recently described the Afghan "retreat" as imbecilic and the worst the world has ever seen, or some such. Ever one to twist truth and logic it may be worth pointing out the he had some input to the problem.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/20/trump-peace-deal-taliban/


    By the way, is Leon SeanT ?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
    Trump wont be the GOP nominee. He is a loser at the end of the day.
    As in, how he lost WH 2016? Putting it another way, what if the end of the relevant day is post 2024? Extraordinary claim.
    1) He is a busted flush. 2) The guy might even be dead in 2024. He is ancient and unhealthy after all.

    It'll be someone from the GOP's next gen and they might very well win it.
    Busted flush is just swapping metaphors. Very rich 70 something teetotallers are virtually guaranteed to survive into their 90s. People still seem to be turning up to his rallies.

    Well that may be your view, but my view is that he won't even run and risk losing the primaries, never mind the election.

    Trump is the past, even to the GOP.
    We are a mere 18 months before traditional campaigning would commence for the New Hampshire primary. I have no idea why anyone would be confident Trump won’t be running or why they expect him to be in the ground by then. Denial I suppose.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,564

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
    Trump wont be the GOP nominee. He is a loser at the end of the day.
    Except Biden is giving Trump the oxygen to keep popping up for the next three years saying "They rigged the election - for THIS guy? Jeez...."

    He doesn't need to win the argument with Democrats. Just independents.....
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Toms said:

    I gather Trump has recently described the Afghan "retreat" as imbecilic and the worst the world has ever seen, or some such. Ever one to twist truth and logic it may be worth pointing out the he had some input to the problem.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/20/trump-peace-deal-taliban/


    By the way, is Leon SeanT ?

    Yes, if Trump is Tony Blair. It was Blair who said the retreat was based on an imbecilic slogan about "forever wars."
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    HYUFD said:

    valleyboy said:

    FFS Drakeford is closer to Starmer than Corbyn

    Not sure if I agree with you on that.
    And I second that :)

    Drakeford is closer to Corbyn than SKS (with the possible exception of Europe).
    Given Wales is the only part of the UK that voted for Corbyn in either 2017 or 2019 hardly a surprise, Labour did not need to change from Corbynism to win Wales, it does need to change from Corbynism to win England and Scotland however
    It’s not Corbynism, Brownism or Blairism that is suppressing the Labour vote in Scotland. It is British nationalism.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    moonshine said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
    Trump wont be the GOP nominee. He is a loser at the end of the day.
    As in, how he lost WH 2016? Putting it another way, what if the end of the relevant day is post 2024? Extraordinary claim.
    1) He is a busted flush. 2) The guy might even be dead in 2024. He is ancient and unhealthy after all.

    It'll be someone from the GOP's next gen and they might very well win it.
    Busted flush is just swapping metaphors. Very rich 70 something teetotallers are virtually guaranteed to survive into their 90s. People still seem to be turning up to his rallies.

    Well that may be your view, but my view is that he won't even run and risk losing the primaries, never mind the election.

    Trump is the past, even to the GOP.
    We are a mere 18 months before traditional campaigning would commence for the New Hampshire primary. I have no idea why anyone would be confident Trump won’t be running or why they expect him to be in the ground by then. Denial I suppose.
    Trump lost to an old man with borderline capacity issues who half the Democrats don't even like and who very well could have been beaten by Pete Buttigieg if Iowa could count.

    Trump himself is going to be even older with even less energy in 18 months time. Realistically a younger GOPer will catch the zeitgeist, maybe even someone we haven't heard of yet.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
    Trump wont be the GOP nominee. He is a loser at the end of the day.
    54% of GOP primary voters would vote for Trump if he runs again on the latest poll, miles ahead of De Santis on 11% in second and Pence on 8% in third.
    https://mclaughlinonline.com/pols/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/National-Monthly-Omnibus-8-2021-Release-.pdf

    Remember most of the MAGA crowd don't think he lost in 2020 anyway but the election was stolen from him
    Biden 51.3%
    Trump 46.9%
    Biden won with a 4.4% popular vote margin over Trump but Hillary lost with a 2.1% popular vote margin over Trump.

    So if he runs in 2024 Trump would only need a 1.15% swing from Biden-Harris relative to 2020 to likely win the EC and the Presidency again.

    Indeed Biden won Georgia, Arizona and Wisconsin by less than 1%, if Trump won those back he would win the Presidency
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    edited August 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    Yokes said:

    It could be US govt but possibly private. A number of private initiatives in US trying to get Afghans out has chartered aircraft but has had trouble getting slots at KBL faciliated by the US operation.

    Any chance of opening Bagram?
    It was on the mission options the US DoD had, reportedly by initial airdrop to secure it but they decided on a 100% KBL approach. Whether it has any real advantage trying to open it now, I dont know. If for example it was out of sight, allowed KBL to be shut for the evacuation and enabled things to carry on whilst the Taliban got on with pacifying Kabul city then it might still be a consideration.

    One of the more curious operations at the moment is the use of the Pakistan embassy as a gathering point for foreign nationals to be transported on to the airport.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
    Trump wont be the GOP nominee. He is a loser at the end of the day.
    Except Biden is giving Trump the oxygen to keep popping up for the next three years saying "They rigged the election - for THIS guy? Jeez...."

    He doesn't need to win the argument with Democrats. Just independents.....
    Trump 9/4 fav with bf for the nomination.
  • A US charter airline startup, Global X, has 2 Airbus planes according to their website. The site says its partners are casinos, cruise lines, resorts and cargo companies. Both planes just flew into kabul from Dushanbe. Who's likely chartering these?

    "The road to Dushanbe!"
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Blair brands Biden's withdrawal 'imbecilic', Boris is reported to have said 'we would be better off with Trump.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916221/Blair-brands-Biden-imbecile-unnecessary-decision-quit-Afghanistan.html

    Meanwhile Trump said of the withdrawal ''This will go down as one of the greatest military defeats of all time,'' at an Alabama rally as he begins the first steps for his third presidential run in 2024. Though there were some boos when he suggested getting the vaccine

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9916429/Moment-Donald-Trump-BOOED-Alabama-rally-encouraging-supporters-vaccine.html

    I am now really worried that he'll be back. This is an absolute gift to him.
    Trump's pushing the vaccine is a notable shift to the centre (his base will vote for him anyway given the alternative of Biden-Harris).

    He is clearly going to try and present himself as Reagan to Biden's Carter after the equally disastrous Iran hostages affair, whether it comes off or not we will have to see
    Since he got booed for it, it’s probably even money he doesn’t mention it ever again.
    It was a nod aimed at centrist swing voters not his base, particularly those who voted for him in 2016 but for Biden in 2020 as they thought he would better handle Covid.

    He got the newsclip he wanted therefore, as I said his base will vote for him regardless anyway, as he said 'they got their freedoms' under him too
    Trump wont be the GOP nominee. He is a loser at the end of the day.
    Except Biden is giving Trump the oxygen to keep popping up for the next three years saying "They rigged the election - for THIS guy? Jeez...."

    He doesn't need to win the argument with Democrats. Just independents.....
    Trump 9/4 fav with bf for the nomination.
    Who is favourite on BF is meaningless, as we all know very well.
This discussion has been closed.