Thank you Cyclefree, as always. In one sense it is impossible to disagree -of course. But questions have to be asked about how to make sense of the situation.
If the majority of Afghans at this moment in fact support some sort of ancient way of running society, including about the nonrights and oppression of women and girls, then it is game over. They have what they want. And we would know, yet again, that the world bears little relation to the BBC's and Guardian's take on it.
If however a small minority are oppressing a majority, (the standard way of reporting this in the west) then how much longer than 20 years does it take to realise from history that freedoms and liberties are hard won, and have to be defended by massive force of arms and policed by strong civilian forces. No other country is under an obligation to win freedoms for another.
In the last few days an elected government and state army and police has faced a May 1940 situation, for which they had prior warning and 20 years to organise for. The principle failure belongs there and nowhere else.
Agreed. We are fundamentally naive about the strength and attractiveness of theocratic cultures and about how long it took for democracy to develop in the West. We have forgotten our own history and so we keep on making the same mistakes when trying to help other countries.
Yes. BTW among the worst of cultures in recent times have been non theocratic ones, Nazi Germany, China, USSR. Theocracy as in Iran, Saudi etc seem to me to be less about God (especially the sort of God revealed in the lives of the great gurus and mystics) and more about using the word 'God' as a cover for extremely ungodly human ambitions.
It's a pretty long road from Guru Nanak or Julian of Norwich to chucking your opponents off a cliff.
Though it is quite arguable that the totalitarian states created new religions.
Incidentally, it has generally been quite a short road from "Be nice to other people" to "Set all the heretics on fire"
Of course. And it is convenient to some to define everything they don't like in religious terms, as convenient for some to dethrone from religion everything they don't like.
As to the length of the road; disagree. The number of people in my town who think you should be nice to other people is disproportionately large in comparison with the number of the same group who set fire to heretics.
"The number of people in my town who think you should be nice to other people is disproportionately large in comparison with the number of the same group who set fire to heretics.:"
This is because of the long process of creating a liberal, social democratic society. This took hundreds of years and involved alot of dead people along the way. And a vast expenditure of treasure.
Freedom isn't Free, as they said in Team America.
The idea of such tolerance is unthinkable and unfathomable to many in this world.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
Cyclefree's post is a fine one. I would dissent about "credal societies". Any kind of society can have no faith in democracy, if it doesn't deliver. Even in the West, young people screwed by the post-GFC consensus are losing faith in democracy. And it seems that the occupation-backed government in Afghanistan was miserably poor.
This is a important area. Until the late 1970s and 1980s, those worldwide suffering from corruption, poverty and all other forms of social malaise could look to a confident western left, even west-european marxist, anti-Stalinist non-authoritarians like the eurocommunists which Varoufakis belonged to. It's no coincidence that in the 1980's, both the most strident forms of capitalist thinking. and extreme religious dogma ascended worldwide, after this collapse of leftwing political, rather than cultural, confidence ; and it's not a coincidence that conspiratorially minded anti-democracy is filling the vacuum now, either.
The sudden disintegration (collapse is too weak a word) of the Ghani Government is an object lesson in the notion you can give anyone the means to fight and defend their homeland but what they have to provide is the will.
Have mistakes been made? Yes, though it's worth re-iterating it was the Trump Administration which instigated talks with the Taliban and the Trump Administration which signed the Doha Treaty and committed to a 14-month withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Still, much easier to kick the current occupant of the White House especially by those for whom it must have been really hard to see Biden and the Democrats win last November.
None of this matters.
The salient questions are how and why did a seemingly well-equipped army simply fall apart? Cities like Jalalabad, Mazar-E-Sharif and even Kabul fell without a shot fired in their defence. The Afghan Air Force seems to have been non-existent. For what reason were the supporters of Ghani completely incapable of defending their State?
The truth is we failed to inculcate any sense of legitimacy in and support for the Karzai and Ghani Governments. Both were, I strongly suspect, riddled with corruption and I suspect those leaders fleeing the country didn't go empty handed. As happened in South Vietnam, we propped up an endemically venal Government and once it came to a fight, those with the money and means ran to their pre-prepared exile and left the people to face the tender mercies of the Taliban.
We must have known of the corruption and presumably we tolerated it. We also know Afghanistan's relevance to the world in terms of the supply of drugs but our "war" against drugs is, it seems, as riddled with failure as our attempts to keep the Taliban out of Kabul.
And yet it's so much easier to kick Joe Biden (with a few snide digs at Kamala Harris) than to address twenty years of endemic, systemic and cultural failure.
The Taliban don't take prisoners and seem to have a habit and reputation of killing a lot more people than necessary after they win a fight.
That reputation goes a long way when the choice is fight (and when you eventually lose, you and your family will be shot) or let them in and life for another day.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
Trump started this, but Biden could have delayed or stopped this.
He chose not to and now Afghanistan is back where it was 20 years ago a barbaric regime about to impose its radical beliefs on its people particular on its female population and become once again an Islamic terrorist safe haven.
I refuse to believe that US intelligence, NATO intelligence and the intelligence of its allies didn't see this coming long ago. That the Afghan government and military wasn't up to it despite all the money and resource it was pumping into it.
If Intelligence did fail then people need to be fired, if they did raise it and it was ignored or they did not care then the US government was negligent.
I don't see what we can do beyond making sure the International community including the UK take our share of refugees.
Afghanistan is lost, no going back now and no international pressure will make a jot of difference. That country will have to be monitored like a hawk for terrorism, increased funding if needed to identify the inevitable threats emanating from that country down the line.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
My party has a majority of 80 and a clear poll lead, what I say on here makes sod all difference to that.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
My viewpoint is that if you are happy to be a member of a party he is a member of, at some level BigG and other Tory party members support or at least accept his viewpoint.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
Cyclefree's post is a fine one. I would dissent about "credal societies". Any kind of society can have no faith in democracy, if it doesn't deliver. Even in the West, young people screwed by the post-GFC consensus are losing faith in democracy. And it seems that the occupation-backed government in Afghanistan was miserably poor.
This is a important area. Until the late 1970s and 1980s, those worldwide suffering from corruption, poverty and all other forms of social malaise could look to a confident western left, even western european marxist non-authoritarians like the eurocommunists. It's no coincidence that in the 1980's, both the most doctrinaire forms of capitalist thinking and extreme religious dogma both ascended after this collapse of leftwing political, rather than cultural, confidence ; nor that conspiratorially minded anti-democracy is filling the vacuum now.
More that the "socialistic" systems tried in many such countries failed, abjectly.
There was a time when the Ba'ath Party was the hope of the young and idealistic in many countries...
The Islamic revival was, in part, a reaction to this. Back to the Goode Olde Ways, but with a modern face.......
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
I fear he is more typical of Tory party members (as opposed to supporters) than you think.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone (apart from 1 year when she was Queen of France by marriage). I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
Oh dear. Where to start?
Firstly, Anne, was by the Grace of God, Queen of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc.
How does being a monarch over several countries not make you monarch of one of them? Was Cnut the Great somehow not King of England, just because he was also King of Denmark and Norway?
There have been hundreds of personal unions in Europe. Being monarch of more than one place doesn’t invalidate your title. Ask HM Elisabeth I.
And Scotland has only ever had one Queen Elisabeth, the current one.
Yet Mary was a Catholic Queen of Scotland, that is the point, she could not have been a Catholic Queen of England at the same time as the state church of England was the Church of England of which the English monarch was supposed to be defender.
Indeed, even today as I have already pointed out Scotland still has more Catholics percentage wise than England does even after their Protestant Reformation
MacArthur got a lot of criticism when he decided to retain a war criminal, Hirohito, as head of state but in retrospect keeping him and working with the remains of the Japanese central government helped the success of the American occupation of Japan, however hurtful it was to those who had suffered under Japanese militarism in the past.
The abolition of the Iraqi Army in 2003, instead of making use of it, and the complete failure to find any sort of locally acceptable leadership in Afghanistan were what doomed those operations. Back in 2003 I was quite active on the Slate message board. One particularly enthusiastic poster, when faced with the question of what happened after the fall of Baghdad, said “we go in armed with copies of the Federalist Papers and everything else follows”. It was that kind of naivety that doomed military action in both cases. A lack proper, albeit perhaps even more expensive, occupation and rebuilding was what doomed them.
Iraq is now a democratic government, Saddam is no more however.
For a man who claims to have a personal insight into "freedom" which is denied to the rest of us, you don´t half write a load of drivel. Not Free is Not Free. The idea that we faught a war to bring "freedom" to the Iraqi people is demonstrably absurd. All we did was alter the nature of the oppression.
Just to add to the disaster, the US coalition was prepared to break international law and over ride the expressed wishes of the UN, an act of piracy that has tainted international relations ever since and allowed, for example, Russia to claim the righ to do the same things.
The 9/11 wars have been an abject failure and more or less a disaster for the West. Now we will see if Chinese constructive engagement with the Talibs works any better. It is hard to see how it could be worse.
Seems odd that this wasn’t done before. After all, prospective employers look into the behaviour of job applicants online.
Careless headlining - that is England and Wales (slightly surprisingf combination but maybe not devolved).
This actual issue came up in Scotland in 2018 as part of a more general review by HM Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland, but I'm not sure if any action was taken.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
I fear he is more typical of Tory party members (as opposed to supporters) than you think.
He is also an office holder, which inherently makes him atypical of party supporters.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone (apart from 1 year when she was Queen of France by marriage). I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
Oh dear. Where to start?
Firstly, Anne, was by the Grace of God, Queen of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc.
How does being a monarch over several countries not make you monarch of one of them? Was Cnut the Great somehow not King of England, just because he was also King of Denmark and Norway?
There have been hundreds of personal unions in Europe. Being monarch of more than one place doesn’t invalidate your title. Ask HM Elisabeth I.
And Scotland has only ever had one Queen Elisabeth, the current one.
Yet Mary was a Catholic Queen of Scotland, that is the point, she could not have been a Catholic Queen of England at the same time as the state church of England was the Church of England of which the English monarch was supposed to be defender.
Indeed, even today as I have already pointed out Scotland still has more Catholics percentage wise than England does even after their Protestant Reformation
What about Mary I? Bloody Mary. She didn't actually get around to returning the Church in England to Roman Catholicism did she?
And to some extent Roman Catholicism in Scotland is due to relatively recent Irish immigration.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
I fear he is more typical of Tory party members (as opposed to supporters) than you think.
You’re probably right.
Most of my Tory friends, relatives and acquaintances are Scots, and they are very different to HYUFD. I don’t think I have met anyone in real life remotely like him. It must be a peculiar southern English thing.
How about someone who worked many years for the British embassy but has now defected to the Taliban - do they have a right to asylum in the UK ?
The Taliban is now in charge of their country so if they have a job they've probably "defected to the Taliban" but that doesn't mean they're safe from retribution, so unless the defection consists of commanding a militia unit or something, yeah.
I don't disagree with the general point of "if we're back-seat driving a policy let's run some actual numbers" but as far as people who worked for the British government and NGOs goes, we're really not talking about hundreds of thousands of guys, even allowing for the fact that if you want to avoid locking out a lot of people you meant to let in you'll end up letting in a fair few marginal people who you didn't.
Of course refugees are going to increase from Afghanistan Priti and we should take as many as possible. I do not see how we can refuse to do so when this is literally what the point of the refugee convention is!
How many is 'as many as possible' ?
10k, 100k, a million, more ?
And how are you going to integrate this multitude from an Islamic fundamentalist failed state into this country ?
We cannot take millions. We can try to help those who worked for the British Army, the British Council and other British-run/paid-for institutions. We can try to prioritise women and girls, those most at risk. We can do something for a few. It is better than nothing. It is not that much to ask.
We keep saying that the reason we don't want fit young men in boats from France is because that stops us helping genuine refugees. Well, now we have a chance to help some of those genuine refugees and once again we hear excuses for why we can't help these ones either.
I'm happy to take people who have worked for the British government but you're being incredibly naive if you think it would stop there.
Why do I suspect your definition of worked for the British Government is going to be way more stricter than mine.
Most of the people we used were employed by third parties - in my world, given their jobs I believe they should be brought into the UK, but I suspect you would use that technicality to rule them out.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
I fear he is more typical of Tory party members (as opposed to supporters) than you think.
You’re probably right.
Most of my Tory friends, relatives and acquaintances are Scots, and they are very different to HYUFD. I don’t think I have met anyone in real life remotely like him. It must be a peculiar southern English thing.
Most of my Tory friends here in southern England are reasonable, fair-minded, non-aggressive people. But none of them are Conservative party members anymore.
Of course refugees are going to increase from Afghanistan Priti and we should take as many as possible. I do not see how we can refuse to do so when this is literally what the point of the refugee convention is!
How many is 'as many as possible' ?
10k, 100k, a million, more ?
And how are you going to integrate this multitude from an Islamic fundamentalist failed state into this country ?
We cannot take millions. We can try to help those who worked for the British Army, the British Council and other British-run/paid-for institutions. We can try to prioritise women and girls, those most at risk. We can do something for a few. It is better than nothing. It is not that much to ask.
We keep saying that the reason we don't want fit young men in boats from France is because that stops us helping genuine refugees. Well, now we have a chance to help some of those genuine refugees and once again we hear excuses for why we can't help these ones either.
I'm happy to take people who have worked for the British government but you're being incredibly naive if you think it would stop there.
Why do I suspect your definition of worked for the British Government is going to be way more stricter than mine.
Most of the people we used were employed by third parties - in my world, given their jobs I believe they should be brought into the UK, but I suspect you would use that technicality to rule them out.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone (apart from 1 year when she was Queen of France by marriage). I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
Oh dear. Where to start?
Firstly, Anne, was by the Grace of God, Queen of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc.
How does being a monarch over several countries not make you monarch of one of them? Was Cnut the Great somehow not King of England, just because he was also King of Denmark and Norway?
There have been hundreds of personal unions in Europe. Being monarch of more than one place doesn’t invalidate your title. Ask HM Elisabeth I.
And Scotland has only ever had one Queen Elisabeth, the current one.
Yet Mary was a Catholic Queen of Scotland, that is the point, she could not have been a Catholic Queen of England at the same time as the state church of England was the Church of England of which the English monarch was supposed to be defender.
Indeed, even today as I have already pointed out Scotland still has more Catholics percentage wise than England does even after their Protestant Reformation
None of that matters. You said "the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots". This is simply wrong. The last Queen of Scotland was Queen Anne.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
My party has a majority of 80 and a clear poll lead, what I say on here makes sod all difference to that.
Cyclefree's post is a fine one. I would dissent about "credal societies". Any kind of society can have no faith in democracy, if it doesn't deliver. Even in the West, young people screwed by the post-GFC consensus are losing faith in democracy. And it seems that the occupation-backed government in Afghanistan was miserably poor.
This is a important area. Until the late 1970s and 1980s, those worldwide suffering from corruption, poverty and all other forms of social malaise could look to a confident western left, even western european marxist non-authoritarians like the eurocommunists. It's no coincidence that in the 1980's, both the most doctrinaire forms of capitalist thinking and extreme religious dogma both ascended after this collapse of leftwing political, rather than cultural, confidence ; nor that conspiratorially minded anti-democracy is filling the vacuum now.
More that the "socialistic" systems tried in many such countries failed, abjectly.
There was a time when the Ba'ath Party was the hope of the young and idealistic in many countries...
The Islamic revival was, in part, a reaction to this. Back to the Goode Olde Ways, but with a modern face.......
Western European continental social democracy, historically informed by the left, didn't fail, but quite a lot of other systems had shown signs of.
Iranian and international theocrats were certainly manipulating leftists who were losing their focus, though. There was one first huge round of fallings-out within the left during the late 1970s, between supporters and opponents of the warsaw pact, and another in the early 1990's, after the fall of the warsaw pact. Most of the political and structural ground went to free market-fundamentalist and religious ideologues, from eastern europe to the far east.
MacArthur got a lot of criticism when he decided to retain a war criminal, Hirohito, as head of state but in retrospect keeping him and working with the remains of the Japanese central government helped the success of the American occupation of Japan, however hurtful it was to those who had suffered under Japanese militarism in the past.
The abolition of the Iraqi Army in 2003, instead of making use of it, and the complete failure to find any sort of locally acceptable leadership in Afghanistan were what doomed those operations. Back in 2003 I was quite active on the Slate message board. One particularly enthusiastic poster, when faced with the question of what happened after the fall of Baghdad, said “we go in armed with copies of the Federalist Papers and everything else follows”. It was that kind of naivety that doomed military action in both cases. A lack proper, albeit perhaps even more expensive, occupation and rebuilding was what doomed them.
Iraq is now a democratic government, Saddam is no more however.
For a man who claims to have a personal insight into "freedom" which is denied to the rest of us, you don´t half write a load of drivel. Not Free is Not Free. The idea that we faught a war to bring "freedom" to the Iraqi people is demonstrably absurd. All we did was alter the nature of the oppression.
Just to add to the disaster, the US coalition was prepared to break international law and over ride the expressed wishes of the UN, an act of piracy that has tainted international relations ever since and allowed, for example, Russia to claim the righ to do the same things.
The 9/11 wars have been an abject failure and more or less a disaster for the West. Now we will see if Chinese constructive engagement with the Talibs works any better. It is hard to see how it could be worse.
Iraq has democratic elections and as I said is now one of the most free nations in the Middle East apart from Jordan and Israel. It is free of the brutal tyranny of Saddam.
The 9/11 wars avoided 9/11 2, now far more likely given Biden-Harris have returned Afghanistan to a failed terror state.
What China achieves with the Taliban is irrelevant, it is the west on 9/11 that was attacked a terrorist plot planned by Bin Laden in Afghanistan not China.
Though China itself may well find itself playing with fire given its treatment of the Muslim Uighurs which will eventually come to haunt it in the Muslim world
The sudden disintegration (collapse is too weak a word) of the Ghani Government is an object lesson in the notion you can give anyone the means to fight and defend their homeland but what they have to provide is the will.
Have mistakes been made? Yes, though it's worth re-iterating it was the Trump Administration which instigated talks with the Taliban and the Trump Administration which signed the Doha Treaty and committed to a 14-month withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Still, much easier to kick the current occupant of the White House especially by those for whom it must have been really hard to see Biden and the Democrats win last November.
None of this matters.
The salient questions are how and why did a seemingly well-equipped army simply fall apart? Cities like Jalalabad, Mazar-E-Sharif and even Kabul fell without a shot fired in their defence. The Afghan Air Force seems to have been non-existent. For what reason were the supporters of Ghani completely incapable of defending their State?
The truth is we failed to inculcate any sense of legitimacy in and support for the Karzai and Ghani Governments. Both were, I strongly suspect, riddled with corruption and I suspect those leaders fleeing the country didn't go empty handed. As happened in South Vietnam, we propped up an endemically venal Government and once it came to a fight, those with the money and means ran to their pre-prepared exile and left the people to face the tender mercies of the Taliban.
We must have known of the corruption and presumably we tolerated it. We also know Afghanistan's relevance to the world in terms of the supply of drugs but our "war" against drugs is, it seems, as riddled with failure as our attempts to keep the Taliban out of Kabul.
And yet it's so much easier to kick Joe Biden (with a few snide digs at Kamala Harris) than to address twenty years of endemic, systemic and cultural failure.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone (apart from 1 year when she was Queen of France by marriage). I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
Oh dear. Where to start?
Firstly, Anne, was by the Grace of God, Queen of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc.
How does being a monarch over several countries not make you monarch of one of them? Was Cnut the Great somehow not King of England, just because he was also King of Denmark and Norway?
There have been hundreds of personal unions in Europe. Being monarch of more than one place doesn’t invalidate your title. Ask HM Elisabeth I.
And Scotland has only ever had one Queen Elisabeth, the current one.
Yet Mary was a Catholic Queen of Scotland, that is the point, she could not have been a Catholic Queen of England at the same time as the state church of England was the Church of England of which the English monarch was supposed to be defender.
Indeed, even today as I have already pointed out Scotland still has more Catholics percentage wise than England does even after their Protestant Reformation
What about Mary I? Bloody Mary. She didn't actually get around to returning the Church in England to Roman Catholicism did she?
And to some extent Roman Catholicism in Scotland is due to relatively recent Irish immigration.
Seems odd that this wasn’t done before. After all, prospective employers look into the behaviour of job applicants online.
Careless headlining - that is England and Wales (slightly surprisingf combination but maybe not devolved).
This actual issue came up in Scotland in 2018 as part of a more general review by HM Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland, but I'm not sure if any action was taken.
‘Police Scotland to review social media accounts when considering firearms licence applications’ (March 2018)
Police Scotland is to start reviewing the social media accounts and domestic abuse history of applicants for firearms licences, a new HM Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland (HMICS) report has revealed.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone (apart from 1 year when she was Queen of France by marriage). I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
Oh dear. Where to start?
Firstly, Anne, was by the Grace of God, Queen of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc.
How does being a monarch over several countries not make you monarch of one of them? Was Cnut the Great somehow not King of England, just because he was also King of Denmark and Norway?
There have been hundreds of personal unions in Europe. Being monarch of more than one place doesn’t invalidate your title. Ask HM Elisabeth I.
And Scotland has only ever had one Queen Elisabeth, the current one.
Yet Mary was a Catholic Queen of Scotland, that is the point, she could not have been a Catholic Queen of England at the same time as the state church of England was the Church of England of which the English monarch was supposed to be defender.
Indeed, even today as I have already pointed out Scotland still has more Catholics percentage wise than England does even after their Protestant Reformation
What about Mary I? Bloody Mary. She didn't actually get around to returning the Church in England to Roman Catholicism did she?
And the some extent Roman Catholicism in Scotland is due to relatively recent Irish immigration.
Quite right. Most of the original surviving RCism was in certain rural areas - e.g. Barra and South Uist, the North-East. The current distribution reflects industrial and mining workforce of the C19 and C20 - which is where the Irish immigrants got low paid work. Nothing to do with the original response to the Reformation.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
I fear he is more typical of Tory party members (as opposed to supporters) than you think.
You’re probably right.
Most of my Tory friends, relatives and acquaintances are Scots, and they are very different to HYUFD. I don’t think I have met anyone in real life remotely like him. It must be a peculiar southern English thing.
Most of my Tory friends here in southern England are reasonable, fair-minded, non-aggressive people. But none of them are Conservative party members anymore.
Aha. That may be it. The new Faragist Revolutionary Tory Party has put off the nice folk.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
Trump started this, but Biden could have delayed or stopped this.
He chose not to and now Afghanistan is back where it was 20 years ago a barbaric regime about to impose its radical beliefs on its people particular on its female population and become once again an Islamic terrorist safe haven.
I refuse to believe that US intelligence, NATO intelligence and the intelligence of its allies didn't see this coming long ago. That the Afghan government and military wasn't up to it despite all the money and resource it was pumping into it.
If Intelligence did fail then people need to be fired, if they did raise it and it was ignored or they did not care then the US government was negligent.
I don't see what we can do beyond making sure the International community including the UK take our share of refugees.
Afghanistan is lost, no going back now and no international pressure will make a jot of difference. That country will have to be monitored like a hawk for terrorism, increased funding if needed to identify the inevitable threats emanating from that country down the line.
"I refuse to believe that US intelligence, NATO intelligence and the intelligence of its allies didn't see this coming long ago"
It depends at what level you mean. At the bottom end, I am quite sure that people were reporting the truth. Further up the chain - well, that would mean telling senior people their policies were wrong.
Before the Falklands war, MI6's man in Argentina was reporting that various preparations were underway. The response of the UK Foreign Office was to demand that he be censured. For endangering the policy the Foreign Office mandarins were espousing with respect to Argentina and the Falklands - they were worried that Thatcher wouldn't like "give it away if we can" policy, if the issue came up.....
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
I fear he is more typical of Tory party members (as opposed to supporters) than you think.
You’re probably right.
Most of my Tory friends, relatives and acquaintances are Scots, and they are very different to HYUFD. I don’t think I have met anyone in real life remotely like him. It must be a peculiar southern English thing.
No it isn't. Anymore than Piers Corbyn is representative of the Labour Party...
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone (apart from 1 year when she was Queen of France by marriage). I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
Oh dear. Where to start?
Firstly, Anne, was by the Grace of God, Queen of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc.
How does being a monarch over several countries not make you monarch of one of them? Was Cnut the Great somehow not King of England, just because he was also King of Denmark and Norway?
There have been hundreds of personal unions in Europe. Being monarch of more than one place doesn’t invalidate your title. Ask HM Elisabeth I.
And Scotland has only ever had one Queen Elisabeth, the current one.
Yet Mary was a Catholic Queen of Scotland, that is the point, she could not have been a Catholic Queen of England at the same time as the state church of England was the Church of England of which the English monarch was supposed to be defender.
Indeed, even today as I have already pointed out Scotland still has more Catholics percentage wise than England does even after their Protestant Reformation
What about Mary I? Bloody Mary. She didn't actually get around to returning the Church in England to Roman Catholicism did she?
And to some extent Roman Catholicism in Scotland is due to relatively recent Irish immigration.
She was Queen before Elizabeth 1st and she was only able to briefly turn it back to Roman Catholicism by being married to the King of Spain, Philip IInd, the most powerful monarch in Europe at the time.
MacArthur got a lot of criticism when he decided to retain a war criminal, Hirohito, as head of state but in retrospect keeping him and working with the remains of the Japanese central government helped the success of the American occupation of Japan, however hurtful it was to those who had suffered under Japanese militarism in the past.
The abolition of the Iraqi Army in 2003, instead of making use of it, and the complete failure to find any sort of locally acceptable leadership in Afghanistan were what doomed those operations. Back in 2003 I was quite active on the Slate message board. One particularly enthusiastic poster, when faced with the question of what happened after the fall of Baghdad, said “we go in armed with copies of the Federalist Papers and everything else follows”. It was that kind of naivety that doomed military action in both cases. A lack proper, albeit perhaps even more expensive, occupation and rebuilding was what doomed them.
Iraq is now a democratic government, Saddam is no more however.
For a man who claims to have a personal insight into "freedom" which is denied to the rest of us, you don´t half write a load of drivel. Not Free is Not Free. The idea that we faught a war to bring "freedom" to the Iraqi people is demonstrably absurd. All we did was alter the nature of the oppression.
Just to add to the disaster, the US coalition was prepared to break international law and over ride the expressed wishes of the UN, an act of piracy that has tainted international relations ever since and allowed, for example, Russia to claim the righ to do the same things.
The 9/11 wars have been an abject failure and more or less a disaster for the West. Now we will see if Chinese constructive engagement with the Talibs works any better. It is hard to see how it could be worse.
Iraq has democratic elections and as I said is now one of the most free nations in the Middle East apart from Jordan and Israel. It is free of the brutal tyranny of Saddam.
The 9/11 wars avoided 9/11 2, now far more likely given Biden-Harris have returned Afghanistan to a failed terror state.
What China achieves with the Taliban is irrelevant, it is the west on 9/11 that was attacked a terrorist plot planned by Bin Laden in Afghanistan not China.
Though China itself may well find itself playing with fire given its treatment of the Muslim Uighurs which will eventually come to haunt it in the Muslim world
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
My viewpoint is that if you are happy to be a member of a party he is a member of, at some level BigG and other Tory party members support or at least accept his viewpoint.
I absolutely do not accept @HYUFD views and I think that is clear in my postings
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
My viewpoint is that if you are happy to be a member of a party he is a member of, at some level BigG and other Tory party members support or at least accept his viewpoint.
I absolutely do not accept @HYUFD views and I think that is clear in my postings
Yet you are a member of the same political party he is.
A party in Government and whose home secretary was refusing to allow Afghans (who had previously been invited) to come here from Friday until publicly embarrassed on Sunday evening..
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone (apart from 1 year when she was Queen of France by marriage). I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
Oh dear. Where to start?
Firstly, Anne, was by the Grace of God, Queen of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc.
How does being a monarch over several countries not make you monarch of one of them? Was Cnut the Great somehow not King of England, just because he was also King of Denmark and Norway?
There have been hundreds of personal unions in Europe. Being monarch of more than one place doesn’t invalidate your title. Ask HM Elisabeth I.
And Scotland has only ever had one Queen Elisabeth, the current one.
Yet Mary was a Catholic Queen of Scotland, that is the point, she could not have been a Catholic Queen of England at the same time as the state church of England was the Church of England of which the English monarch was supposed to be defender.
Indeed, even today as I have already pointed out Scotland still has more Catholics percentage wise than England does even after their Protestant Reformation
Yet again, you totally ignore the valid objections I raise. It is a pattern.
You claim that “Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count.” How doesn’t that count? Is HMQ not Queen of Canada just cos she is also Queen of Australia?
You also ignore that Elisabeth I of England was never monarch of the Scots.
You also ignore Anne’s Irish title.
And quite what you are trying to say about Catholicism is a mystery. Total gobbledygook.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone (apart from 1 year when she was Queen of France by marriage). I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
Oh dear. Where to start?
Firstly, Anne, was by the Grace of God, Queen of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc.
How does being a monarch over several countries not make you monarch of one of them? Was Cnut the Great somehow not King of England, just because he was also King of Denmark and Norway?
There have been hundreds of personal unions in Europe. Being monarch of more than one place doesn’t invalidate your title. Ask HM Elisabeth I.
And Scotland has only ever had one Queen Elisabeth, the current one.
Yet Mary was a Catholic Queen of Scotland, that is the point, she could not have been a Catholic Queen of England at the same time as the state church of England was the Church of England of which the English monarch was supposed to be defender.
Indeed, even today as I have already pointed out Scotland still has more Catholics percentage wise than England does even after their Protestant Reformation
What about Mary I? Bloody Mary. She didn't actually get around to returning the Church in England to Roman Catholicism did she?
And to some extent Roman Catholicism in Scotland is due to relatively recent Irish immigration.
She was Queen before Elizabeth 1st and she was only able to briefly turn it back to Roman Catholicism by being married to the King of Spain, Philip IInd, the most powerful monarch in Europe at the time.
Double checked & appears I was wrong; Mary I made the Pope head of the English Church again. Although it wasn't her marriage which enabled her to do it; it was her popularity....... before she got into heretic-burning, and the like. Her marriage was not popular, and helped the movement against her and the RC church.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone (apart from 1 year when she was Queen of France by marriage). I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
Oh dear. Where to start?
Firstly, Anne, was by the Grace of God, Queen of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc.
How does being a monarch over several countries not make you monarch of one of them? Was Cnut the Great somehow not King of England, just because he was also King of Denmark and Norway?
There have been hundreds of personal unions in Europe. Being monarch of more than one place doesn’t invalidate your title. Ask HM Elisabeth I.
And Scotland has only ever had one Queen Elisabeth, the current one.
Yet Mary was a Catholic Queen of Scotland, that is the point, she could not have been a Catholic Queen of England at the same time as the state church of England was the Church of England of which the English monarch was supposed to be defender.
Indeed, even today as I have already pointed out Scotland still has more Catholics percentage wise than England does even after their Protestant Reformation
Yet again, you totally ignore the valid objections I raise. It is a pattern.
You claim that “Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count.” How doesn’t that count? Is HMQ not Queen of Canada just cos she is also Queen of Australia?
You also ignore that Elisabeth I of England was never monarch of the Scots.
You also ignore Anne’s Irish title.
And quite what you are trying to say about Catholicism is a mystery. Total gobbledygook.
Canada and Australia are also states which are not majority Catholic.
Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic Queen at the time of a Catholic majority Scotland, she could not therefore be Queen of England at the time of Elizabeth IInd as the English monarch had to head the Protestant Church of England
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
My viewpoint is that if you are happy to be a member of a party he is a member of, at some level BigG and other Tory party members support or at least accept his viewpoint.
I absolutely do not accept @HYUFD views and I think that is clear in my postings
Yet you are a member of the same political party he is.
A party in Government and whose home secretary was refusing to allow Afghans (who had previously been invited) to come here from Friday until publicly embarrassed on Sunday evening..
I can sympathise with the notion that other parties are not any better or someone they could vote for. But that is entirely different to providing direct support for a party by being a member. If you are a member you are explicitly a supporter and are associating yourself with it.
It is hard to leave something you have been part of a long time and feel invested into. But when the party and your views diverge that much you have to leave if you want to be able to look yourself in the mirror and feel ok. Have to assume that Big_G feels ok staying a member and that means supporting the party and the government despite protestations to the contrary.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone (apart from 1 year when she was Queen of France by marriage). I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
Oh dear. Where to start?
Firstly, Anne, was by the Grace of God, Queen of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc.
How does being a monarch over several countries not make you monarch of one of them? Was Cnut the Great somehow not King of England, just because he was also King of Denmark and Norway?
There have been hundreds of personal unions in Europe. Being monarch of more than one place doesn’t invalidate your title. Ask HM Elisabeth I.
And Scotland has only ever had one Queen Elisabeth, the current one.
Yet Mary was a Catholic Queen of Scotland, that is the point, she could not have been a Catholic Queen of England at the same time as the state church of England was the Church of England of which the English monarch was supposed to be defender.
Indeed, even today as I have already pointed out Scotland still has more Catholics percentage wise than England does even after their Protestant Reformation
What about Mary I? Bloody Mary. She didn't actually get around to returning the Church in England to Roman Catholicism did she?
And to some extent Roman Catholicism in Scotland is due to relatively recent Irish immigration.
She was Queen before Elizabeth 1st and she was only able to briefly turn it back to Roman Catholicism by being married to the King of Spain, Philip IInd, the most powerful monarch in Europe at the time.
Double checked & appears I was wrong; Mary I made the Pope head of the English Church again. Although it wasn't her marriage which enabled her to do it; it was her popularity....... before she got into heretic-burning, and the like. Her marriage was not popular, and helped the movement against her and the RC church.
There was plenty of Protestant opposition to her making the Pope head of the English Church again, hence she needed the stake burning. The fact she had the Spanish King and his armies alongside her however in that endeavour enabled her to carry it through without too much risk to her throne
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
No he is not - he is in a league of his own
Says the man who voted for New Labour twice.
You are not even a loyal and consistent Tory voter, you have voted for Labour before, I have never voted Labour in a general election. '
I do not need to justify myself to you.
I was helping the conservative party win elections in the 1960s, was the late Lord Wyn Roberts personal driver in two elections as well as David Jones MP
If you asked the local conservative councillors and others who know me they would affirm that I have served the party over decades, and at the time Blair was the correct choice for the country
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone (apart from 1 year when she was Queen of France by marriage). I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
Oh dear. Where to start?
Firstly, Anne, was by the Grace of God, Queen of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc.
How does being a monarch over several countries not make you monarch of one of them? Was Cnut the Great somehow not King of England, just because he was also King of Denmark and Norway?
There have been hundreds of personal unions in Europe. Being monarch of more than one place doesn’t invalidate your title. Ask HM Elisabeth I.
And Scotland has only ever had one Queen Elisabeth, the current one.
Yet Mary was a Catholic Queen of Scotland, that is the point, she could not have been a Catholic Queen of England at the same time as the state church of England was the Church of England of which the English monarch was supposed to be defender.
Indeed, even today as I have already pointed out Scotland still has more Catholics percentage wise than England does even after their Protestant Reformation
Yet again, you totally ignore the valid objections I raise. It is a pattern.
You claim that “Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count.” How doesn’t that count? Is HMQ not Queen of Canada just cos she is also Queen of Australia?
You also ignore that Elisabeth I of England was never monarch of the Scots.
You also ignore Anne’s Irish title.
And quite what you are trying to say about Catholicism is a mystery. Total gobbledygook.
Canada and Australia are also states which are not majority Catholic.
Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic Queen at the time of a Catholic majority Scotland, she could not therefore be Queen of England at the time of Elizabeth IInd as the English monarch had to head the Protestant Church of England
again lolol - so what? Mary couldn't be Queen of England because Elizabeth was already Queen of England. Her faith wasn't the issue.
Nor does any of this take away from your incorrect claim that Mary was the last Queen of Scotland.
It is an abject lesson in Johnsonism in action though. Say something that isn't true. Try to disguise it by speaking further gibberish. Repeat the untrue thing hoping you have confused the audience enough to get away with it.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
Trump started this, but Biden could have delayed or stopped this.
He chose not to and now Afghanistan is back where it was 20 years ago a barbaric regime about to impose its radical beliefs on its people particular on its female population and become once again an Islamic terrorist safe haven.
I refuse to believe that US intelligence, NATO intelligence and the intelligence of its allies didn't see this coming long ago. That the Afghan government and military wasn't up to it despite all the money and resource it was pumping into it.
If Intelligence did fail then people need to be fired, if they did raise it and it was ignored or they did not care then the US government was negligent.
I don't see what we can do beyond making sure the International community including the UK take our share of refugees.
Afghanistan is lost, no going back now and no international pressure will make a jot of difference. That country will have to be monitored like a hawk for terrorism, increased funding if needed to identify the inevitable threats emanating from that country down the line.
"I refuse to believe that US intelligence, NATO intelligence and the intelligence of its allies didn't see this coming long ago"
It depends at what level you mean. At the bottom end, I am quite sure that people were reporting the truth. Further up the chain - well, that would mean telling senior people their policies were wrong.
Before the Falklands war, MI6's man in Argentina was reporting that various preparations were underway. The response of the UK Foreign Office was to demand that he be censured. For endangering the policy the Foreign Office mandarins were espousing with respect to Argentina and the Falklands - they were worried that Thatcher wouldn't like "give it away if we can" policy, if the issue came up.....
You can't even tell if the lowest levels are being accurate because they will be relying on Afghan information sources. Sources that get paid on a piece work basis. So they are incentivised to feed information they think their handlers want to hear.
The US intelligence service has a multi decade long failure in human intelligence gathering because they fell in love with communication interception.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
My viewpoint is that if you are happy to be a member of a party he is a member of, at some level BigG and other Tory party members support or at least accept his viewpoint.
I absolutely do not accept @HYUFD views and I think that is clear in my postings
Yet you are a member of the same political party he is.
A party in Government and whose home secretary was refusing to allow Afghans (who had previously been invited) to come here from Friday until publicly embarrassed on Sunday evening..
That does not mean I share his views anymore than Starmer shares the views of the hard left in the labour party
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone (apart from 1 year when she was Queen of France by marriage). I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
Oh dear. Where to start?
Firstly, Anne, was by the Grace of God, Queen of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc.
How does being a monarch over several countries not make you monarch of one of them? Was Cnut the Great somehow not King of England, just because he was also King of Denmark and Norway?
There have been hundreds of personal unions in Europe. Being monarch of more than one place doesn’t invalidate your title. Ask HM Elisabeth I.
And Scotland has only ever had one Queen Elisabeth, the current one.
Yet Mary was a Catholic Queen of Scotland, that is the point, she could not have been a Catholic Queen of England at the same time as the state church of England was the Church of England of which the English monarch was supposed to be defender.
Indeed, even today as I have already pointed out Scotland still has more Catholics percentage wise than England does even after their Protestant Reformation
Yet again, you totally ignore the valid objections I raise. It is a pattern.
You claim that “Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count.” How doesn’t that count? Is HMQ not Queen of Canada just cos she is also Queen of Australia?
You also ignore that Elisabeth I of England was never monarch of the Scots.
You also ignore Anne’s Irish title.
And quite what you are trying to say about Catholicism is a mystery. Total gobbledygook.
Canada and Australia are also states which are not majority Catholic.
Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic Queen at the time of a Catholic majority Scotland, she could not therefore be Queen of England at the time of Elizabeth IInd as the English monarch had to head the Protestant Church of England
again lolol - so what? Mary couldn't be Queen of England because Elizabeth was already Queen of England. Her faith wasn't the issue.
Nor does any of this take away from your incorrect claim that Mary was the last Queen of Scotland.
It is an abject lesson in Johnsonism in action though. Say something that isn't true. Try to disguise it by speaking further gibberish. Repeat the untrue thing hoping you have confused the audience enough to get away with it.
You’ve hit the nail on the head there. That’s it! That is their entire gameplay. Wearing us down with total gibberish.
Trump started this, but Biden could have delayed or stopped this.
He chose not to and now Afghanistan is back where it was 20 years ago a barbaric regime about to impose its radical beliefs on its people particular on its female population and become once again an Islamic terrorist safe haven.
I refuse to believe that US intelligence, NATO intelligence and the intelligence of its allies didn't see this coming long ago. That the Afghan government and military wasn't up to it despite all the money and resource it was pumping into it.
If Intelligence did fail then people need to be fired, if they did raise it and it was ignored or they did not care then the US government was negligent.
I don't see what we can do beyond making sure the International community including the UK take our share of refugees.
Afghanistan is lost, no going back now and no international pressure will make a jot of difference. That country will have to be monitored like a hawk for terrorism, increased funding if needed to identify the inevitable threats emanating from that country down the line.
"I refuse to believe that US intelligence, NATO intelligence and the intelligence of its allies didn't see this coming long ago"
It depends at what level you mean. At the bottom end, I am quite sure that people were reporting the truth. Further up the chain - well, that would mean telling senior people their policies were wrong.
Before the Falklands war, MI6's man in Argentina was reporting that various preparations were underway. The response of the UK Foreign Office was to demand that he be censured. For endangering the policy the Foreign Office mandarins were espousing with respect to Argentina and the Falklands - they were worried that Thatcher wouldn't like "give it away if we can" policy, if the issue came up.....
You can't even tell if the lowest levels are being accurate because they will be relying on Afghan information sources. Sources that get paid on a piece work basis. So they are incentivised to feed information they think their handlers want to hear.
The US intelligence service has a multi decade long failure in human intelligence gathering because they fell in love with communication interception.
People with experience of Afghanistan have been calling the Afghan President "The Mayor of Kabul" for over a decade..... as in no real support for the government outside a governing class/group.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone (apart from 1 year when she was Queen of France by marriage). I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
Oh dear. Where to start?
Firstly, Anne, was by the Grace of God, Queen of England, Scotland, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, etc.
How does being a monarch over several countries not make you monarch of one of them? Was Cnut the Great somehow not King of England, just because he was also King of Denmark and Norway?
There have been hundreds of personal unions in Europe. Being monarch of more than one place doesn’t invalidate your title. Ask HM Elisabeth I.
And Scotland has only ever had one Queen Elisabeth, the current one.
Yet Mary was a Catholic Queen of Scotland, that is the point, she could not have been a Catholic Queen of England at the same time as the state church of England was the Church of England of which the English monarch was supposed to be defender.
Indeed, even today as I have already pointed out Scotland still has more Catholics percentage wise than England does even after their Protestant Reformation
Yet again, you totally ignore the valid objections I raise. It is a pattern.
You claim that “Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count.” How doesn’t that count? Is HMQ not Queen of Canada just cos she is also Queen of Australia?
You also ignore that Elisabeth I of England was never monarch of the Scots.
You also ignore Anne’s Irish title.
And quite what you are trying to say about Catholicism is a mystery. Total gobbledygook.
Canada and Australia are also states which are not majority Catholic.
Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic Queen at the time of a Catholic majority Scotland, she could not therefore be Queen of England at the time of Elizabeth IInd as the English monarch had to head the Protestant Church of England
again lolol - so what? Mary couldn't be Queen of England because Elizabeth was already Queen of England. Her faith wasn't the issue.
Nor does any of this take away from your incorrect claim that Mary was the last Queen of Scotland.
It is an abject lesson in Johnsonism in action though. Say something that isn't true. Try to disguise it by speaking further gibberish. Repeat the untrue thing hoping you have confused the audience enough to get away with it.
It's also very odd as Marie Stuart didn't take up her position as Queen till 1561 which was after Scotland had a Protestant ascendancy. Though her RCism wasn't the sole reason for her later overthrow and exile - she messed up in other ways.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
My viewpoint is that if you are happy to be a member of a party he is a member of, at some level BigG and other Tory party members support or at least accept his viewpoint.
I absolutely do not accept @HYUFD views and I think that is clear in my postings
Yet you are a member of the same political party he is.
A party in Government and whose home secretary was refusing to allow Afghans (who had previously been invited) to come here from Friday until publicly embarrassed on Sunday evening..
That does not mean I share his views anymore than Starmer shares the views of the hard left in the labour party
It does however mean you share the views of the Tory party and their leadership.
And those views are more accurately reflected by HYUFD's posts than by anyone else's on this site
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
My viewpoint is that if you are happy to be a member of a party he is a member of, at some level BigG and other Tory party members support or at least accept his viewpoint.
I absolutely do not accept @HYUFD views and I think that is clear in my postings
Yet you are a member of the same political party he is.
A party in Government and whose home secretary was refusing to allow Afghans (who had previously been invited) to come here from Friday until publicly embarrassed on Sunday evening..
I can sympathise with the notion that other parties are not any better or someone they could vote for. But that is entirely different to providing direct support for a party by being a member. If you are a member you are explicitly a supporter and are associating yourself with it.
It is hard to leave something you have been part of a long time and feel invested into. But when the party and your views diverge that much you have to leave if you want to be able to look yourself in the mirror and feel ok. Have to assume that Big_G feels ok staying a member and that means supporting the party and the government despite protestations to the contrary.
You confuse two things
I support the conservative party as the best choice for the country at present, I do not support @HYUFD views nor would I suggest would the vast majority of moderate conservative members
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
I fear he is more typical of Tory party members (as opposed to supporters) than you think.
You’re probably right.
Most of my Tory friends, relatives and acquaintances are Scots, and they are very different to HYUFD. I don’t think I have met anyone in real life remotely like him. It must be a peculiar southern English thing.
No it isn't. Anymore than Piers Corbyn is representative of the Labour Party...
OK, so HY is to the Tory party what Corbyn is to Labour? In other words an extremist.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
My viewpoint is that if you are happy to be a member of a party he is a member of, at some level BigG and other Tory party members support or at least accept his viewpoint.
I absolutely do not accept @HYUFD views and I think that is clear in my postings
Yet you are a member of the same political party he is.
A party in Government and whose home secretary was refusing to allow Afghans (who had previously been invited) to come here from Friday until publicly embarrassed on Sunday evening..
I can sympathise with the notion that other parties are not any better or someone they could vote for. But that is entirely different to providing direct support for a party by being a member. If you are a member you are explicitly a supporter and are associating yourself with it.
It is hard to leave something you have been part of a long time and feel invested into. But when the party and your views diverge that much you have to leave if you want to be able to look yourself in the mirror and feel ok. Have to assume that Big_G feels ok staying a member and that means supporting the party and the government despite protestations to the contrary.
You confuse two things
I support the conservative party as the best choice for the country at present, I do not support @HYUFD views nor would I suggest would the vast majority of moderate conservative members
I am very clear that you disagree with HYUFD - something that reassures all of us!
You do though provide support to the government on things that you do not support by being a Tory party member. They don't care that you disagree with them on policy, as you provide tacit support to the policies you support through your membership.
Afghanistan is in meltdown, and what is trending on the tw@tter machine...#ItWasAScam...all about how Jezza / Labour under Corbyn didn't have any issues with antisemitism.
If we are to take refugees from Afghanistan then it should be women and girls. The Taliban is a very clear danger to them all and quite simply we filled their heads with the nonsense that Afghanistan could be a free and democratic country where they could have jobs, not wear a burka and live freely. We told them to go and get jobs, join the army and burn their burkas. Now they are going to pay for that.
I don't love the idea of 300-500k refugees over the next couple of years from a culturally backwards nation coming to the UK but we do owe these women. We've betrayed them.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
My viewpoint is that if you are happy to be a member of a party he is a member of, at some level BigG and other Tory party members support or at least accept his viewpoint.
I absolutely do not accept @HYUFD views and I think that is clear in my postings
Yet you are a member of the same political party he is.
A party in Government and whose home secretary was refusing to allow Afghans (who had previously been invited) to come here from Friday until publicly embarrassed on Sunday evening..
That does not mean I share his views anymore than Starmer shares the views of the hard left in the labour party
It does however mean you share the views of the Tory party and their leadership.
And those views are more accurately reflected by HYUFD's posts than by anyone else's on this site
I have criticised Willamson, Patel and Jenrick on this site on many occasions, and want Patel out of the cabinet as soon as possible
Furthermore, I want Rishi to take over today if it was possible
I will fight within the party for moderate and fair policies hence why I support the abolition of the triple lock
Looking at the history of the Church Edward VI > Mary 1 > Elizabeth I see that Mary became Queen in 1553 and late that year Parliament removed all the religious legislation that had been introduced in the reign of Edward VI and the Church was restored to what it had been in 1547. In November the next year Parliament removed from the statute books all the religious reforms that had been passed between 1529 and 1547, including doing away with royal supremacy, restoring Papal authority and restoring the heresy laws, which brought back burning at the stake. Mary died in 1558 and the next year under Elizabth the Church of England, as Catholic but not Roman Catholic was established.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
My viewpoint is that if you are happy to be a member of a party he is a member of, at some level BigG and other Tory party members support or at least accept his viewpoint.
I absolutely do not accept @HYUFD views and I think that is clear in my postings
Yet you are a member of the same political party he is.
A party in Government and whose home secretary was refusing to allow Afghans (who had previously been invited) to come here from Friday until publicly embarrassed on Sunday evening..
I can sympathise with the notion that other parties are not any better or someone they could vote for. But that is entirely different to providing direct support for a party by being a member. If you are a member you are explicitly a supporter and are associating yourself with it.
It is hard to leave something you have been part of a long time and feel invested into. But when the party and your views diverge that much you have to leave if you want to be able to look yourself in the mirror and feel ok. Have to assume that Big_G feels ok staying a member and that means supporting the party and the government despite protestations to the contrary.
Agreed.
That’s why I left my Swedish political party in 2018. I didn’t walk off in a huff or anything, I just didn’t renew my membership. Lots of things had changed, both nationally and locally, and I just wasn’t comfortable any more. I still might vote for them, but probably not. In fact I haven’t really got a clue who I’m voting for next year. For the first time in my life I am a floating voter! Feels both great and disconcerting.
Stop the War along with their usual sensible suggestions.....
The British government should take a lead in offering a refugee programme and reparations to rebuild Afghanistan, an act which would go a great deal further in advancing the rights of the Afghan people, women in particular, than continued military or economic intervention in the fate of the Afghanistan.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
My viewpoint is that if you are happy to be a member of a party he is a member of, at some level BigG and other Tory party members support or at least accept his viewpoint.
I absolutely do not accept @HYUFD views and I think that is clear in my postings
Yet you are a member of the same political party he is.
A party in Government and whose home secretary was refusing to allow Afghans (who had previously been invited) to come here from Friday until publicly embarrassed on Sunday evening..
I can sympathise with the notion that other parties are not any better or someone they could vote for. But that is entirely different to providing direct support for a party by being a member. If you are a member you are explicitly a supporter and are associating yourself with it.
It is hard to leave something you have been part of a long time and feel invested into. But when the party and your views diverge that much you have to leave if you want to be able to look yourself in the mirror and feel ok. Have to assume that Big_G feels ok staying a member and that means supporting the party and the government despite protestations to the contrary.
Agreed.
That’s why I left my Swedish political party in 2018. I didn’t walk off in a huff or anything, I just didn’t renew my membership. Lots of things had changed, both nationally and locally, and I just wasn’t comfortable any more. I still might vote for them, but probably not. In fact I haven’t really got a clue who I’m voting for next year. For the first time in my life I am a floating voter! Feels both great and disconcerting.
184-8 now! (Net figure).
Used to be LD, then voted for Labour candidates under Blair whom I knew and of whom I thought well. Had met, and didn't like, the Tories in all cases. Now, last Co. Council, Green, on same basis.
Trump started this, but Biden could have delayed or stopped this.
He chose not to and now Afghanistan is back where it was 20 years ago a barbaric regime about to impose its radical beliefs on its people particular on its female population and become once again an Islamic terrorist safe haven.
I refuse to believe that US intelligence, NATO intelligence and the intelligence of its allies didn't see this coming long ago. That the Afghan government and military wasn't up to it despite all the money and resource it was pumping into it.
If Intelligence did fail then people need to be fired, if they did raise it and it was ignored or they did not care then the US government was negligent.
I don't see what we can do beyond making sure the International community including the UK take our share of refugees.
Afghanistan is lost, no going back now and no international pressure will make a jot of difference. That country will have to be monitored like a hawk for terrorism, increased funding if needed to identify the inevitable threats emanating from that country down the line.
"I refuse to believe that US intelligence, NATO intelligence and the intelligence of its allies didn't see this coming long ago"
It depends at what level you mean. At the bottom end, I am quite sure that people were reporting the truth. Further up the chain - well, that would mean telling senior people their policies were wrong.
Before the Falklands war, MI6's man in Argentina was reporting that various preparations were underway. The response of the UK Foreign Office was to demand that he be censured. For endangering the policy the Foreign Office mandarins were espousing with respect to Argentina and the Falklands - they were worried that Thatcher wouldn't like "give it away if we can" policy, if the issue came up.....
You can't even tell if the lowest levels are being accurate because they will be relying on Afghan information sources. Sources that get paid on a piece work basis. So they are incentivised to feed information they think their handlers want to hear.
The US intelligence service has a multi decade long failure in human intelligence gathering because they fell in love with communication interception.
People with experience of Afghanistan have been calling the Afghan President "The Mayor of Kabul" for over a decade..... as in no real support for the government outside a governing class/group.
The Afghans have a history of rising up and forming guerrilla resistance against regime and occupations they don't like. If the Afghan people tire of the Taliban they will surely rise up against them?
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
You can relive that experience by visiting the British Commercial Vehicle Museum in Leyland, Lancashire. They have a "Popemobile" from that visit.
You're a sad an pathetic man. All you can think about is your sad and pathetic agenda. Millions of women and girls are in danger and all you can do is try and score the same pathetic points as always. Get some perspective.
I don't know the details of numbers, but we should absolutely help those who have worked for us in Afghanistan.
Beyond that, I'd say women and children only.
Yes absolutely. I expect it would be around half a million over two years. Plus probably another half million in family reunions in the following 10 years.
Unfolded the Millwall Brick we keep behind the bed, to see what was in the news the day I put it there… Feb 13 2020, stock market buoyed by signs Covid 19 cases are levelling off 😳
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
My viewpoint is that if you are happy to be a member of a party he is a member of, at some level BigG and other Tory party members support or at least accept his viewpoint.
I absolutely do not accept @HYUFD views and I think that is clear in my postings
Yet you are a member of the same political party he is.
A party in Government and whose home secretary was refusing to allow Afghans (who had previously been invited) to come here from Friday until publicly embarrassed on Sunday evening..
I can sympathise with the notion that other parties are not any better or someone they could vote for. But that is entirely different to providing direct support for a party by being a member. If you are a member you are explicitly a supporter and are associating yourself with it.
It is hard to leave something you have been part of a long time and feel invested into. But when the party and your views diverge that much you have to leave if you want to be able to look yourself in the mirror and feel ok. Have to assume that Big_G feels ok staying a member and that means supporting the party and the government despite protestations to the contrary.
You confuse two things
I support the conservative party as the best choice for the country at present, I do not support @HYUFD views nor would I suggest would the vast majority of moderate conservative members
I am very clear that you disagree with HYUFD - something that reassures all of us!
You do though provide support to the government on things that you do not support by being a Tory party member. They don't care that you disagree with them on policy, as you provide tacit support to the policies you support through your membership.
I would just make a point about my membership of the conservative party
It qualifies me for a vote for party leader and in a small way I can make a contribution to that decision
Without that entitlement I would have allowed my membership to lapse
Sadly, trying to stow away on a plane by climbing up the landing gear is pretty much always fatal. Whether it’s the swinging gear crushing you, the hypoxia, or the hypothermia that get you first, is generally down to luck.
Pope Francis 'wants to hold Mass in Scotland' during COP26 summit in Glasgow
The report quotes a source saying the Pope would like to say a Mass for Scots.
“It would have to fit in with his address to the conference and his meetings with the bishops. There is some doubt about whether it can be fitted in, but the Pope says Mass every day and would like to say a Mass for the people of Scotland.“
Why is that news/controversial? I’m sure there will be some logistics in making it COVID compliant but that’s it
Well, it’s not controversial (does absolutely everything we discuss on here have to be controversial?), but it is most certainly news! Papal visits are extremely rare and have historically been extremely popular events.
There have only ever been two papal visits to Scotland:
5th century: conversion of Scotland to Christianity begins 1982 papal visit 2010 papal visit 2021 papal visit
So, yes Charles, this is news! (Average is about one visit per 500 years.)
The 1982 visit is imprinted on my childhood memory. It was immense.
Percentage wise there are more Catholics in Scotland than England, 16% of the population to 10%, so it makes sense for the Pope to go. Scotland is the second most Catholic part of the British isles after Ireland.
Of course the last Queen of Scotland, Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic still even when her cousin Elizabeth 1st was a Protestant Queen of England
'With some HY posts one doesn’t really know where to start. I think his strategy is to suck the will to live out of his opponents.
If we ignore the fact that Scotland currently has a queen, Elizabeth I, then the last queen of an independent Scotland was not Mary I (1542-1567), but Anne (reign 1702-1714).
And of course Mary, also briefly Queen of France, was a Catholic whereas Elisabeth was a Protestant. The English Reformation was in 1532-34 whereas the Scottish Reformation was much later, 1557-60.
And the papal visit has zilch to do with how many catholics a country has. The pope visits places where fractions of a percent are catholic and also the opposite extreme.'
Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count. Mary Queen of Scots was Queen of Scotland alone. I have also not noticed Elizabeth 1st rising from the dead to take the place of our current Queen Elizabeth IInd?
The Pope obviously makes more visits to majority Catholic areas, hence he makes far more visits to Ireland, Latin America, Poland and the Philippines than he does to Northern Ireland, the USA, India and Japan
It would certainly save us the bother. Is that boy quite right in the head?
Just another typical Tory party member.
But is he really? He actually comes across as atypical. A lot of other Tories on here find him infuriating. He is certainly doing his party’s cause no good.
My viewpoint is that if you are happy to be a member of a party he is a member of, at some level BigG and other Tory party members support or at least accept his viewpoint.
I absolutely do not accept @HYUFD views and I think that is clear in my postings
Yet you are a member of the same political party he is.
A party in Government and whose home secretary was refusing to allow Afghans (who had previously been invited) to come here from Friday until publicly embarrassed on Sunday evening..
I can sympathise with the notion that other parties are not any better or someone they could vote for. But that is entirely different to providing direct support for a party by being a member. If you are a member you are explicitly a supporter and are associating yourself with it.
It is hard to leave something you have been part of a long time and feel invested into. But when the party and your views diverge that much you have to leave if you want to be able to look yourself in the mirror and feel ok. Have to assume that Big_G feels ok staying a member and that means supporting the party and the government despite protestations to the contrary.
Agreed.
That’s why I left my Swedish political party in 2018. I didn’t walk off in a huff or anything, I just didn’t renew my membership. Lots of things had changed, both nationally and locally, and I just wasn’t comfortable any more. I still might vote for them, but probably not. In fact I haven’t really got a clue who I’m voting for next year. For the first time in my life I am a floating voter! Feels both great and disconcerting.
And there is a legitimate case to be made for staying in a party to try to contribute to dragging it (back ?) to something you are more comfortable with. And sometimes for "I don't like this, but the alternative is far worse". Given a choice of Johnson or Corbyn, there's a case to be made that each of them was so awful, in different ways, to justify reluctant backing of the other one.
Those are both valid rationalisations; but they only get you so far. And the "looking yourself in the mirror test" is so important.
Afghanistan is in meltdown, and what is trending on the tw@tter machine...#ItWasAScam...all about how Jezza / Labour under Corbyn didn't have any issues with antisemitism.
They are having a good morning: 1 Hard left MPs launch a petition to get "outstanding socialist" Ken Loach reinstated. Remember that Loach is an anti-semite and was "outstanding" creating splinter parties to campaign against the Labour Party as recently as 2015 https://twitter.com/Daniel_Sugarman/status/1427207690363842560/photo/1
Terrific @Cyclefree header here. Skillful (yes, I know, but I like this spelling) weave of lots of different issues into one coherent piece. Really effective.
Perhaps the best part about it is there's no attempt to shoehorn in an agenda. This is difficult to avoid (I can't manage it as you're about to find out) since there are so many choose from. Anti-US, Anti-Muslim, Anti-Johnson, Anti-Trump, or the one quite popular on here, the fanciful notion that this long inevitable outcome of the Taliban resuming control of Afghanistan after America lost its appetite for prolonged involvement is a 'Fall of Saigon' equivalent that's all down to Joe Biden and will define and doom his presidency. That's a pile of manure being heaped up by people who haven't yet gotten over their disappointment at his beating Donald Trump last November and are hoping for a triumphant return for their man. Sure, they won't admit this, but Trump is the ultimate Guilty Pleasure.
Me, I'm the opposite. Biden prevented a 2nd Trump term, others might have lost to him, and this imo is a positive of such mammoth proportions that it'd take far more than this bungled final pullout of Afghanistan to move him into net debit, or anywhere close.
As to a practical response, after we've squeezed all the hot air and crocodile tears and virtue/vice signalling out of our system, I agree we should be taking in a good number of the Afghans who manage to flee. I'd be disappointed not to see majority support for this at Westminster. The public, especially on the Brexiter side of life, I'm not so sure about. They have their Brexit but immigration remains stubbornly at the top of their concerns. Can this be sold as a special case? I'd hope so but I don't know.
Since the end of the Cold War, I would argue there have been three defining humiliations for Western power. 9/11, the banking crisis, and the fall of Kabul.
The trouble with the last of these three, is that it invites further impactful humiliations of even greater severity. Were I living in Taiwan, this morning I’d be making plans to wind up my financials affairs and get out of dodge.
Or else get nuclear weapons
Nuclear weapons would be a poor deterrent against against China blockading the ports or using conventional troops. They are only really a useful deterrent in preventing someone else using nuclear weapons against you. See Yes Minister.
Of course a Taiwan government with nukes fearful for its own survival could threaten to send a nuclear bomb on mainland China the second a Chinese soldier set foot on its soil
Comments
That reputation goes a long way when the choice is fight (and when you eventually lose, you and your family will be shot) or let them in and life for another day.
Trump started this, but Biden could have delayed or stopped this.
He chose not to and now Afghanistan is back where it was 20 years ago a barbaric regime about to impose its radical beliefs on its people particular on its female population and become once again an Islamic terrorist safe haven.
I refuse to believe that US intelligence, NATO intelligence and the intelligence of its allies didn't see this coming long ago. That the Afghan government and military wasn't up to it despite all the money and resource it was pumping into it.
If Intelligence did fail then people need to be fired, if they did raise it and it was ignored or they did not care then the US government was negligent.
I don't see what we can do beyond making sure the International community including the UK take our share of refugees.
Afghanistan is lost, no going back now and no international pressure will make a jot of difference. That country will have to be monitored like a hawk for terrorism, increased funding if needed to identify the inevitable threats emanating from that country down the line.
I just say what I think
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/16/gun-licence-applicants-face-social-media-checks-after-plymouth-attack
Seems odd that this wasn’t done before. After all, prospective employers look into the behaviour of job applicants online.
There was a time when the Ba'ath Party was the hope of the young and idealistic in many countries...
The Islamic revival was, in part, a reaction to this. Back to the Goode Olde Ways, but with a modern face.......
Indeed, even today as I have already pointed out Scotland still has more Catholics percentage wise than England does even after their Protestant Reformation
Yet the cost of this appalling failure was staggeringly high: roughly half a million dead. Not wounded, DEAD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
Just to add to the disaster, the US coalition was prepared to break international law and over ride the expressed wishes of the UN, an act of piracy that has tainted international relations ever since and allowed, for example, Russia to claim the righ to do the same things.
The 9/11 wars have been an abject failure and more or less a disaster for the West. Now we will see if Chinese constructive engagement with the Talibs works any better. It is hard to see how it could be worse.
This actual issue came up in Scotland in 2018 as part of a more general review by HM Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland, but I'm not sure if any action was taken.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43291740
And to some extent Roman Catholicism in Scotland is due to relatively recent Irish immigration.
Most of my Tory friends, relatives and acquaintances are Scots, and they are very different to HYUFD. I don’t think I have met anyone in real life remotely like him. It must be a peculiar southern English thing.
I don't disagree with the general point of "if we're back-seat driving a policy let's run some actual numbers" but as far as people who worked for the British government and NGOs goes, we're really not talking about hundreds of thousands of guys, even allowing for the fact that if you want to avoid locking out a lot of people you meant to let in you'll end up letting in a fair few marginal people who you didn't.
Iranian and international theocrats were certainly manipulating leftists who were losing their focus, though. There was one first huge round of fallings-out within the left during the late 1970s, between supporters and opponents of the warsaw pact, and another in the early 1990's, after the fall of the warsaw pact. Most of the political and structural ground went to free market-fundamentalist and religious ideologues, from eastern europe to the far east.
The 9/11 wars avoided 9/11 2, now far more likely given Biden-Harris have returned Afghanistan to a failed terror state.
What China achieves with the Taliban is irrelevant, it is the west on 9/11 that was attacked a terrorist plot planned by Bin Laden in Afghanistan not China.
Though China itself may well find itself playing with fire given its treatment of the Muslim Uighurs which will eventually come to haunt it in the Muslim world
Bloody Mary was never Queen, it never happened - it's all a myth! Or else she was a secret Protestant, or queen before Henry VIII... or something...
Please see:
‘Police Scotland to review social media accounts when considering firearms licence applications’ (March 2018)
Police Scotland is to start reviewing the social media accounts and domestic abuse history of applicants for firearms licences, a new HM Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland (HMICS) report has revealed.
https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2018/03/16/police-scotland-to-review-social-media-accounts-when-considering-firearms-licence-applications/
It depends at what level you mean. At the bottom end, I am quite sure that people were reporting the truth. Further up the chain - well, that would mean telling senior people their policies were wrong.
Before the Falklands war, MI6's man in Argentina was reporting that various preparations were underway. The response of the UK Foreign Office was to demand that he be censured. For endangering the policy the Foreign Office mandarins were espousing with respect to Argentina and the Falklands - they were worried that Thatcher wouldn't like "give it away if we can" policy, if the issue came up.....
You are not even a loyal and consistent Tory voter, you have voted for Labour before, I have never voted Labour in a general election.
'
A party in Government and whose home secretary was refusing to allow Afghans (who had previously been invited) to come here from Friday until publicly embarrassed on Sunday evening..
That sounds like a politician's answer! Have you gone over to the dark light other side in other elections?
You claim that “Anne was Queen of England and Scotland, does not count.” How doesn’t that count? Is HMQ not Queen of Canada just cos she is also Queen of Australia?
You also ignore that Elisabeth I of England was never monarch of the Scots.
You also ignore Anne’s Irish title.
And quite what you are trying to say about Catholicism is a mystery. Total gobbledygook.
Mary Queen of Scots was a Catholic Queen at the time of a Catholic majority Scotland, she could not therefore be Queen of England at the time of Elizabeth IInd as the English monarch had to head the Protestant Church of England
It is hard to leave something you have been part of a long time and feel invested into. But when the party and your views diverge that much you have to leave if you want to be able to look yourself in the mirror and feel ok. Have to assume that Big_G feels ok staying a member and that means supporting the party and the government despite protestations to the contrary.
I was helping the conservative party win elections in the 1960s, was the late Lord Wyn Roberts personal driver in two elections as well as David Jones MP
If you asked the local conservative councillors and others who know me they would affirm that I have served the party over decades, and at the time Blair was the correct choice for the country
Nor does any of this take away from your incorrect claim that Mary was the last Queen of Scotland.
It is an abject lesson in Johnsonism in action though. Say something that isn't true. Try to disguise it by speaking further gibberish. Repeat the untrue thing hoping you have confused the audience enough to get away with it.
The US intelligence service has a multi decade long failure in human intelligence gathering because they fell in love with communication interception.
And those views are more accurately reflected by HYUFD's posts than by anyone else's on this site
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/08/15/dominic-raab-accused-missing-action-holiday-kabul-fell-taliban/
I support the conservative party as the best choice for the country at present, I do not support @HYUFD views nor would I suggest would the vast majority of moderate conservative members
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9897201/Terror-Kabul-airport-Troops-fire-shots-air-desperate-Afghans-climb-airbridges.html
Three stowaways ‘fall to their deaths from plane’
You do though provide support to the government on things that you do not support by being a Tory party member. They don't care that you disagree with them on policy, as you provide tacit support to the policies you support through your membership.
https://twitter.com/russellengland/status/1427208489617788940?s=21
I don't love the idea of 300-500k refugees over the next couple of years from a culturally backwards nation coming to the UK but we do owe these women. We've betrayed them.
It is a matter of honour.
Furthermore, I want Rishi to take over today if it was possible
I will fight within the party for moderate and fair policies hence why I support the abolition of the triple lock
We are not all right wingers by some distance
I see that Mary became Queen in 1553 and late that year Parliament removed all the religious legislation that had been introduced in the reign of Edward VI and the Church was restored to what it had been in 1547. In November the next year Parliament removed from the statute books all the religious reforms that had been passed between 1529 and 1547, including doing away with royal supremacy, restoring Papal authority and restoring the heresy laws, which brought back burning at the stake. Mary died in 1558 and the next year under Elizabth the Church of England, as Catholic but not Roman Catholic was established.
That’s why I left my Swedish political party in 2018. I didn’t walk off in a huff or anything, I just didn’t renew my membership. Lots of things had changed, both nationally and locally, and I just wasn’t comfortable any more. I still might vote for them, but probably not. In fact I haven’t really got a clue who I’m voting for next year. For the first time in my life I am a floating voter! Feels both great and disconcerting.
The British government should take a lead in offering a refugee programme and reparations to rebuild Afghanistan, an act which would go a great deal further in advancing the rights of the Afghan people, women in particular, than continued military or economic intervention in the fate of the Afghanistan.
https://www.stopwar.org.uk/article/stop-the-war-statement-on-the-situation-in-afghanistan/
Used to be LD, then voted for Labour candidates under Blair whom I knew and of whom I thought well. Had met, and didn't like, the Tories in all cases. Now, last Co. Council, Green, on same basis.
Beyond that, I'd say women and children only.
You're a sad an pathetic man. All you can think about is your sad and pathetic agenda. Millions of women and girls are in danger and all you can do is try and score the same pathetic points as always. Get some perspective.
RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR WILL MEET WITH TALIBAN REPRESENTATIVE ON TUESDAY - IFAX (Reuters)
https://twitter.com/antoguerrera/status/1427178381582426113
https://twitter.com/asfarasdelgados/status/1427199092040556545?s=21
It qualifies me for a vote for party leader and in a small way I can make a contribution to that decision
Without that entitlement I would have allowed my membership to lapse
Those are both valid rationalisations; but they only get you so far. And the "looking yourself in the mirror test" is so important.
1 Hard left MPs launch a petition to get "outstanding socialist" Ken Loach reinstated. Remember that Loach is an anti-semite and was "outstanding" creating splinter parties to campaign against the Labour Party as recently as 2015 https://twitter.com/Daniel_Sugarman/status/1427207690363842560/photo/1
2 Jeremy Cornbyn's Stop The War Coalition calls for the west to pay reparations to the Taliban https://www.stopwar.org.uk/article/stop-the-war-statement-on-the-situation-in-afghanistan/
3 Twitter campaign to attack the Labour Party (who are @HYUFD Tories apparently) https://twitter.com/search?q=#ItWasAScam&src=typed_query
Perhaps the best part about it is there's no attempt to shoehorn in an agenda. This is difficult to avoid (I can't manage it as you're about to find out) since there are so many choose from. Anti-US, Anti-Muslim, Anti-Johnson, Anti-Trump, or the one quite popular on here, the fanciful notion that this long inevitable outcome of the Taliban resuming control of Afghanistan after America lost its appetite for prolonged involvement is a 'Fall of Saigon' equivalent that's all down to Joe Biden and will define and doom his presidency. That's a pile of manure being heaped up by people who haven't yet gotten over their disappointment at his beating Donald Trump last November and are hoping for a triumphant return for their man. Sure, they won't admit this, but Trump is the ultimate Guilty Pleasure.
Me, I'm the opposite. Biden prevented a 2nd Trump term, others might have lost to him, and this imo is a positive of such mammoth proportions that it'd take far more than this bungled final pullout of Afghanistan to move him into net debit, or anywhere close.
As to a practical response, after we've squeezed all the hot air and crocodile tears and virtue/vice signalling out of our system, I agree we should be taking in a good number of the Afghans who manage to flee. I'd be disappointed not to see majority support for this at Westminster. The public, especially on the Brexiter side of life, I'm not so sure about. They have their Brexit but immigration remains stubbornly at the top of their concerns. Can this be sold as a special case? I'd hope so but I don't know.