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At Batley and Spen Starmer’s LAB did something that the Tories haven’t managed since 2016… – politic

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    South Africa stopped using it because they thought (wrongly) it was completely ineffective against their strain: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/03/astrazeneca-vaccine-doesnt-prevent-b1351-covid-early-trial
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Evening all :)

    I'm hearing the process of the full independent public inquiry into the pandemic is getting moving.

    The first thing will be a "stop notice" on the destruction of any records relating to how the pandemic was handled, what decisions were taken by whom and when.

    The cynic in me suggests phones, laptops and servers will be seeing plenty of activity as, and I can't believe this is in any way plausible, individuals seek to cover their tracks or delete incriminating emails, texts and other documents including meeting notes.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    Not me, I never doubted Gareth Southgate.

    I never called him a numpty who had relegated Middlesbrough and the smog had impacted his faculties.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Done at Wimbledon. Djokovic in three straight sets, albeit fairly close ones.

    Will be astonished if he doesn't win on Sunday.

    In other news, the Duke of Kent, who is now 85, is reportedly retiring as President of the All England Club. One suspects that they've got Kate (who is currently the Patron of the Club) lined up to replace him.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    The growth rate was expected to slow, but not as much as this.

    Is slow growth and rampant inflation, stagflation, possible for the post Covid years, suggesting government out of idea’s and ushering in opposition?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    On the heart inflammation, my understanding is that if you do heavy exercise when suffering from a cold, you see similar issues, and this is likely the reason with both Moderna and Pfizer. Basically, don't engage in strenuous exercise when your immune system is engaged.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    Big shout out to the Lions for going out to South Africa right now.
    Absolute farce of a tour for so many reasons.

    The Exeter anti-vaxxers should never have been picked.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    I wonder how much of the online radicalism and attraction to conspiracies (from all sides) can be linked directly to the pandemic and/or the massive increase in people working from home? Because people working from an office on work computers simply cannot spend all large chunks of the day surfing the internet and spending half their lives on social media echo chambers. And were less inclined to do so when they had better things to do with their evenings and weekends. And now they’ve been sucked in they can’t escape.

    I think most of us on here are lucky to have got settled on a social media site which isn’t an echo chamber and genuinely has a wide range of views and challenge to keep people grounded (however much some might like to argue otherwise).
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I'm hearing the process of the full independent public inquiry into the pandemic is getting moving.

    The first thing will be a "stop notice" on the destruction of any records relating to how the pandemic was handled, what decisions were taken by whom and when.

    The cynic in me suggests phones, laptops and servers will be seeing plenty of activity as, and I can't believe this is in any way plausible, individuals seek to cover their tracks or delete incriminating emails, texts and other documents including meeting notes.

    Don't worry, Dom has saved them all.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2021
    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    Not me, I never doubted Gareth Southgate.

    I never called him a numpty who had relegated Middlesbrough and the smog had impacted his faculties.
    Why do you do it? Why do you all do it? Do you turn into mothers, and no matter how good it is, it’s hardly doctor with a perfect wife? Southgate has been doing a decent team England thing for years, screens, water carriers, advanced ball winners, if anything the fixtures have fallen kindly.

    Whoever it was warbled at length about analysts proven Rice is a fraud. We can look back to thread before first match, so you might as well put your hand up if room tonight.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I'm hearing the process of the full independent public inquiry into the pandemic is getting moving.

    The first thing will be a "stop notice" on the destruction of any records relating to how the pandemic was handled, what decisions were taken by whom and when.

    The cynic in me suggests phones, laptops and servers will be seeing plenty of activity as, and I can't believe this is in any way plausible, individuals seek to cover their tracks or delete incriminating emails, texts and other documents including meeting notes.

    Anyone who did would be stupid to do so.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Alistair said:

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    Big shout out to the Lions for going out to South Africa right now.
    Absolute farce of a tour for so many reasons.

    The Exeter anti-vaxxers should never have been picked.
    Yup, utter shit show.

    Has put me right off the concept of the Lions.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    rcs1000 said:

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    South Africa stopped using it because they thought (wrongly) it was completely ineffective against their strain: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/03/astrazeneca-vaccine-doesnt-prevent-b1351-covid-early-trial
    I stand corrected.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    I thought there was a chance that Alba could pick up a seat up here in Alex Salmond's own patch.

    Then I met him.

    What an awful man.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I'm hearing the process of the full independent public inquiry into the pandemic is getting moving.

    The first thing will be a "stop notice" on the destruction of any records relating to how the pandemic was handled, what decisions were taken by whom and when.

    The cynic in me suggests phones, laptops and servers will be seeing plenty of activity as, and I can't believe this is in any way plausible, individuals seek to cover their tracks or delete incriminating emails, texts and other documents including meeting notes.

    I hope the Gmail servers and other "non-government" servers are being notified as well to retain copies of emails.

    It will be interesting to see what the email chain says about the arrival of the Johnson Variant.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Done at Wimbledon. Djokovic in three straight sets, albeit fairly close ones.

    Will be astonished if he doesn't win on Sunday.

    In other news, the Duke of Kent, who is now 85, is reportedly retiring as President of the All England Club. One suspects that they've got Kate (who is currently the Patron of the Club) lined up to replace him.

    Not at the peak of his powers, but with father time catching up with Federer and injuries with Nadal right now he stands alone. Peerless.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    Not me, I never doubted Gareth Southgate.

    I never called him a numpty who had relegated Middlesbrough and the smog had impacted his faculties.
    Why do you do it? Why do you all do it? Do you turn into mothers, and no matter how good it is, it’s hardly doctor with a perfect wife? Southgate has been doing a decent team England thing for years, screens, water carriers, advanced ball winners, if anything the fixtures have fallen kindly.

    Whoever it was warbled at length about analysts proven Rice is a fraud. We can look back to thread before first match, so you might as well put your hand up if room tonight.
    It was the treatment of Trent Alexander-Arnold, the world's greatest right back, a man who has redefined the role.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2021
    Alistair said:

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    Big shout out to the Lions for going out to South Africa right now.
    Absolute farce of a tour for so many reasons.

    The Exeter anti-vaxxers should never have been picked.
    I notice it has been reported that the whole Italian football team have been vaccinated.

    It is really unacceptable for sports teams not to be. Especially any sport where you are going to be really in somebodies face for a long period of time e.g. rugby. 16 blokes all huddled together in the scrum, you might as well all sit in the sauna together.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    alex_ said:

    I wonder how much of the online radicalism and attraction to conspiracies (from all sides) can be linked directly to the pandemic and/or the massive increase in people working from home? Because people working from an office on work computers simply cannot spend all large chunks of the day surfing the internet and spending half their lives on social media echo chambers. And were less inclined to do so when they had better things to do with their evenings and weekends. And now they’ve been sucked in they can’t escape.

    I think most of us on here are lucky to have got settled on a social media site which isn’t an echo chamber and genuinely has a wide range of views and challenge to keep people grounded (however much some might like to argue otherwise).

    Yes, even when PB annoys the fuck out of me, I think of all the other sites where I could waste 5 hours a day, and I give thanks

    Indeed I can generally out-argue any of my friends about politics and economics (and much else besides) simply by virtue of my daily education on here
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377

    I thought there was a chance that Alba could pick up a seat up here in Alex Salmond's own patch.

    Then I met him.

    What an awful man.

    That's a bit harsh on Malcolm G.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    On other matters...

    It seems the noughties are becoming like the 60s - if you remember them, you weren't there.

    I mention this because when Mrs Stodge asked me about this Bank Holiday we will be having if England win on Sunday, I told her I hope I remember it better than the Bank Holiday when we won the Rugby World Cup and that day off we all must have had when we won the Ashes.

    Never mind that, Mrs Stodge replied, what did we both do when England won the Cricket World Cup in 2019? I mean, the public holiday we had for that - I must have been as bladdered as Freddie Flintoff or something of that nature because I can't remember any of it.

    So much sporting success....perhaps we can have a morning off for Mark Cavendish or if an English-trained horse wins the July Cup at Newmarket.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited July 2021
    From discussion the other day of the humour that can be found in legal judgements, particularly when using dry language to dismiss an argument, I think this one from a recent judgement is pretty solid in comedic value, even though the subject of legal matters is serious. I would definitely reuse this in assessing an argument.

    This argument is unfounded in fact, and depends on a false comparison for such plausibility as it may appear to have
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,912
    edited July 2021
    Well found Mike..

    Like I said yesterday to the howling wolves. All statistics are selective even this one
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    There is rather a lot of wind — a great heaving blast of hot air as Sturgeon relays familiar cant about every death being a tragedy and the pains and impositions of calling the shots. We know all this — not least because she keeps repeating it — but someone has told the First Minister this makes her sound relatable or empathetic and so we get the pained grimaces and the grave tone of voice. She’s not going to get independence any time soon but she must be in the running for a BAFTA.

    https://stephendaisley.substack.com/p/sturgeon-meets-her-personality-cult
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Leon said:

    alex_ said:

    I wonder how much of the online radicalism and attraction to conspiracies (from all sides) can be linked directly to the pandemic and/or the massive increase in people working from home? Because people working from an office on work computers simply cannot spend all large chunks of the day surfing the internet and spending half their lives on social media echo chambers. And were less inclined to do so when they had better things to do with their evenings and weekends. And now they’ve been sucked in they can’t escape.

    I think most of us on here are lucky to have got settled on a social media site which isn’t an echo chamber and genuinely has a wide range of views and challenge to keep people grounded (however much some might like to argue otherwise).

    Yes, even when PB annoys the fuck out of me, I think of all the other sites where I could waste 5 hours a day, and I give thanks

    Indeed I can generally out-argue any of my friends about politics and economics (and much else besides) simply by virtue of my daily education on here
    Also, your friends are retards.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    Alistair said:

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    Big shout out to the Lions for going out to South Africa right now.
    Absolute farce of a tour for so many reasons.

    The Exeter anti-vaxxers should never have been picked.
    I notice it has been reported that the whole Italian football team have been vaccinated.

    It is really unacceptable for sports teams not to be. Especially any sport where you are going to be really in somebodies face for a long period of time e.g. rugby.
    My understanding was that the PL and FA took the decision not to jump ahead of the vaccine queue, and wait their turn normally.

    So a bunch of 18-30 year olds would have only got their first jab recently, and not due their second jab until August.

    Can you imagine the optics of 'millionaire footballers jump the vaccine queue ahead of the vulnerable' ?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
    Almost as acceptable as racism against "chavvy" WWC which you see from many on the left.
    That's not limited to the left.
    Not limited but increasingly the worst examples come from the left. As has been said before, try using some of the epitaphs often used against WWC and where they live against other groups. Chances are you would be getting a visit from the Police.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2021
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics team told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team. But Henderson isn't fully fit and the only other alternative is 18 years old and only has one season of elite football under his belt.

    Bellingham is the future for that position.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    alex_ said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I'm hearing the process of the full independent public inquiry into the pandemic is getting moving.

    The first thing will be a "stop notice" on the destruction of any records relating to how the pandemic was handled, what decisions were taken by whom and when.

    The cynic in me suggests phones, laptops and servers will be seeing plenty of activity as, and I can't believe this is in any way plausible, individuals seek to cover their tracks or delete incriminating emails, texts and other documents including meeting notes.

    Anyone who did would be stupid to do so.
    Indeed - this will be the first significant public inquiry where almost all the evidence will be digital.

    Caldicott, Hillsborough, Grenfell - all still had large quantities of paper records and, I'd argue, clearer audit trails for decisions taken or not taken.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    Not me, I never doubted Gareth Southgate.

    I never called him a numpty who had relegated Middlesbrough and the smog had impacted his faculties.
    Why do you do it? Why do you all do it? Do you turn into mothers, and no matter how good it is, it’s hardly doctor with a perfect wife? Southgate has been doing a decent team England thing for years, screens, water carriers, advanced ball winners, if anything the fixtures have fallen kindly.

    Whoever it was warbled at length about analysts proven Rice is a fraud. We can look back to thread before first match, so you might as well put your hand up if room tonight.
    It was the treatment of Trent Alexander-Arnold, the world's greatest right back, a man who has redefined the role.
    I was bewildered by that as well. Walkers got pace, as demonstrated Wednesday, he’s also got errors in him. For me Trent orchestrates games from right back, that I haven’t seen since Mick Mills.

    I don’t want to come over all Alex Ferguson, but Trent should play more games as central midfield.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
    Almost as acceptable as racism against "chavvy" WWC which you see from many on the left.
    and red heads, and short people.
    I saw somebody the other day with hair the colour of Irn-Bru. I had to try my hardest not to stare.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
    Almost as acceptable as racism against "chavvy" WWC which you see from many on the left.
    That's not limited to the left.
    Not limited but increasingly the worst examples come from the left. As has been said before, try using some of the epitaphs often used against WWC and where they live against other groups. Chances are you would be getting a visit from the Police.
    Nah, deal with the abuse to those privately educated/wealthy.

    Apparently my school and university disbar me from being a politician because I don't understand the needs of plebs ordinary people.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    Re header::2019. With an open goal, and one widened by the beardy wonder in latter days no LD's managed to score. Clegg is easily the most trusted (and more distrusted) LD,

    The Tories will win the race time after time. Labour run the rankest of rags, and the LDs are just entering for fun.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
    Almost as acceptable as racism against "chavvy" WWC which you see from many on the left.
    That's not limited to the left.
    Not limited but increasingly the worst examples come from the left. As has been said before, try using some of the epitaphs often used against WWC and where they live against other groups. Chances are you would be getting a visit from the Police.
    Nah, deal with the abuse to those privately educated/wealthy.

    Apparently my school and university disbar me from being a politician because I don't understand the needs of plebs ordinary people.
    Don't worry, we will get you down Collyhurst and Miles Platting to improve your empathy :)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    Lozza is pound shop!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,928
    stodge said:

    alex_ said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I'm hearing the process of the full independent public inquiry into the pandemic is getting moving.

    The first thing will be a "stop notice" on the destruction of any records relating to how the pandemic was handled, what decisions were taken by whom and when.

    The cynic in me suggests phones, laptops and servers will be seeing plenty of activity as, and I can't believe this is in any way plausible, individuals seek to cover their tracks or delete incriminating emails, texts and other documents including meeting notes.

    Anyone who did would be stupid to do so.
    Indeed - this will be the first significant public inquiry where almost all the evidence will be digital.

    Caldicott, Hillsborough, Grenfell - all still had large quantities of paper records and, I'd argue, clearer audit trails for decisions taken or not taken.
    How can you argue they have clearer audit trails when the inquiry hasn’t even started yet? If anything, having it all digital will make it even easier to sort through the copious amounts of evidence.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Boxer Tyson Fury tests positive for Covid. Fight scheduled for 24th Vs Deyontay Wilder is postponed indefinitely.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-9769893/Tyson-Fury-v-Deontay-Wilder-III-threaten-Anthony-Joshua-fight.html
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team.

    Bellington is the future for that position.
    Bellington’s not a screen in front of back four, he is more advanced and creative and dynamic. There is too much politics in the Chelsea court?

    Phillips was man of match in the first game. Rice has been England’s best player over all, IMO.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Leon said:

    alex_ said:

    I wonder how much of the online radicalism and attraction to conspiracies (from all sides) can be linked directly to the pandemic and/or the massive increase in people working from home? Because people working from an office on work computers simply cannot spend all large chunks of the day surfing the internet and spending half their lives on social media echo chambers. And were less inclined to do so when they had better things to do with their evenings and weekends. And now they’ve been sucked in they can’t escape.

    I think most of us on here are lucky to have got settled on a social media site which isn’t an echo chamber and genuinely has a wide range of views and challenge to keep people grounded (however much some might like to argue otherwise).

    Yes, even when PB annoys the fuck out of me, I think of all the other sites where I could waste 5 hours a day, and I give thanks

    Indeed I can generally out-argue any of my friends about politics and economics (and much else besides) simply by virtue of my daily education on here
    Thank you!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    alex_ said:

    I wonder how much of the online radicalism and attraction to conspiracies (from all sides) can be linked directly to the pandemic and/or the massive increase in people working from home? Because people working from an office on work computers simply cannot spend all large chunks of the day surfing the internet and spending half their lives on social media echo chambers. And were less inclined to do so when they had better things to do with their evenings and weekends. And now they’ve been sucked in they can’t escape.

    I think most of us on here are lucky to have got settled on a social media site which isn’t an echo chamber and genuinely has a wide range of views and challenge to keep people grounded (however much some might like to argue otherwise).

    Yes, even when PB annoys the fuck out of me, I think of all the other sites where I could waste 5 hours a day, and I give thanks

    Indeed I can generally out-argue any of my friends about politics and economics (and much else besides) simply by virtue of my daily education on here
    Also, your friends are retards.
    I am sorry you shouldn't use that word "People differently intelligent" is the correct woke term now I believe
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2021

    Alistair said:

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    Big shout out to the Lions for going out to South Africa right now.
    Absolute farce of a tour for so many reasons.

    The Exeter anti-vaxxers should never have been picked.
    I notice it has been reported that the whole Italian football team have been vaccinated.

    It is really unacceptable for sports teams not to be. Especially any sport where you are going to be really in somebodies face for a long period of time e.g. rugby.
    My understanding was that the PL and FA took the decision not to jump ahead of the vaccine queue, and wait their turn normally.

    So a bunch of 18-30 year olds would have only got their first jab recently, and not due their second jab until August.

    Can you imagine the optics of 'millionaire footballers jump the vaccine queue ahead of the vulnerable' ?
    Honestly, if the FA made a large donation to medical research I don't think there would be. Well no more than the tw@tterati outraged over the future king of England or the Prime Minister getting a test before others.

    And we see it in other sports e.g. the lions all got the option to be fully jabbed right?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    There is rather a lot of wind — a great heaving blast of hot air as Sturgeon relays familiar cant about every death being a tragedy and the pains and impositions of calling the shots. We know all this — not least because she keeps repeating it — but someone has told the First Minister this makes her sound relatable or empathetic and so we get the pained grimaces and the grave tone of voice. She’s not going to get independence any time soon but she must be in the running for a BAFTA.

    https://stephendaisley.substack.com/p/sturgeon-meets-her-personality-cult

    What an absolute shit bag he is.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Stand up and applaud Wales for hitting 90% of adults having had at least one dose of a covid 19 vaccine.

    https://twitter.com/ThatRyanChap/status/1413571316523929600?s=20
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2021
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team.

    Bellington is the future for that position.
    Bellington’s not a screen in front of back four, he is more advanced and creative and dynamic. There is too much politics in the Chelsea court?

    Phillips was man of match in the first game. Rice has been England’s best player over all, IMO.
    Philips plays the screen role for Leeds and much more able to distribute the ball long and short.....Future midfield is Philips and Bellingham.

    Its not me saying it, England management don't trust Rice to do anything at pace. He is told if he gets it, he really is not to look to spray passes (which he tries for West Ham) and he is not to work at pace, he must slow it down. Southgate and Holland are too worried that he tries to work at the pace he does for West Ham he will make too many mistakes, that leads to what they call too many "chaotic" situations.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Pulpstar said:

    Done at Wimbledon. Djokovic in three straight sets, albeit fairly close ones.

    Will be astonished if he doesn't win on Sunday.

    In other news, the Duke of Kent, who is now 85, is reportedly retiring as President of the All England Club. One suspects that they've got Kate (who is currently the Patron of the Club) lined up to replace him.

    Not at the peak of his powers, but with father time catching up with Federer and injuries with Nadal right now he stands alone. Peerless.
    I think he uses the lack of love as fuel.

    "Look, you can wibble on as much as you like about Roger's all round gorgeousness and Rafa's animal magic but I've got 25 slams versus their 20, plus a winning head to head against both, plus the most weeks at world number one, plus the most Masters titles and the most Tour Finals ... so, you know, EYE AM THE FUCKING GOAT."

    Will be how he leaves it in 2024.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Alistair said:

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    Big shout out to the Lions for going out to South Africa right now.
    Absolute farce of a tour for so many reasons.

    The Exeter anti-vaxxers should never have been picked.
    I notice it has been reported that the whole Italian football team have been vaccinated.

    It is really unacceptable for sports teams not to be. Especially any sport where you are going to be really in somebodies face for a long period of time e.g. rugby.
    My understanding was that the PL and FA took the decision not to jump ahead of the vaccine queue, and wait their turn normally.

    So a bunch of 18-30 year olds would have only got their first jab recently, and not due their second jab until August.

    Can you imagine the optics of 'millionaire footballers jump the vaccine queue ahead of the vulnerable' ?
    Indeed. Bahrain offered vaccines to the whole F1 circus, when they turned up in the Gulf State back in March, but were politely declined.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Good news: between 1 February and 21 June this year, a period of nearly five months, only 118 fully vaccinated people in England are known to have died from Covid.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/09/vaccines-working-as-expected-in-preventing-covid-deaths-say-experts
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Alistair said:

    There is rather a lot of wind — a great heaving blast of hot air as Sturgeon relays familiar cant about every death being a tragedy and the pains and impositions of calling the shots. We know all this — not least because she keeps repeating it — but someone has told the First Minister this makes her sound relatable or empathetic and so we get the pained grimaces and the grave tone of voice. She’s not going to get independence any time soon but she must be in the running for a BAFTA.

    https://stephendaisley.substack.com/p/sturgeon-meets-her-personality-cult

    What an absolute shit bag he is.
    You think she's getting independence anytime soon?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,357
    stodge said:

    On other matters...

    It seems the noughties are becoming like the 60s - if you remember them, you weren't there.

    I mention this because when Mrs Stodge asked me about this Bank Holiday we will be having if England win on Sunday, I told her I hope I remember it better than the Bank Holiday when we won the Rugby World Cup and that day off we all must have had when we won the Ashes.

    Never mind that, Mrs Stodge replied, what did we both do when England won the Cricket World Cup in 2019? I mean, the public holiday we had for that - I must have been as bladdered as Freddie Flintoff or something of that nature because I can't remember any of it.

    So much sporting success....perhaps we can have a morning off for Mark Cavendish or if an English-trained horse wins the July Cup at Newmarket.

    I have high hopes of watching the streams of the first day of the final round of the first group stage of the County Championship on Sunday (Durham if it doesn't rain), and I watched all of Darren Stevens innings of 190 after.missing it live - which I'd never do for a football match - but it does have to be conceded that association football is the national sport of England, and it is perfectly understandable that politicians will act as berks in an attempt to take advantage of one of the few things that genuinely unites the electorate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive: Ministers are being asked to not say “it’s coming home” because it “does not go down well” with other countries and might damage a World Cup bid, a leaked DCMS email shows

    Story with @Kate_M_Proctor https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/leaked-email-shows-ministers-being-urged-not-to-say-its-coming-home

    We're not getting the World Cup, for all sorts of reasons, and simply winning the Euros might well be seen by some as sufficient reason not to award, were another needed.
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Done at Wimbledon. Djokovic in three straight sets, albeit fairly close ones.

    Will be astonished if he doesn't win on Sunday.

    In other news, the Duke of Kent, who is now 85, is reportedly retiring as President of the All England Club. One suspects that they've got Kate (who is currently the Patron of the Club) lined up to replace him.

    Not at the peak of his powers, but with father time catching up with Federer and injuries with Nadal right now he stands alone. Peerless.
    I think he uses the lack of love as fuel.

    "Look, you can wibble on as much as you like about Roger's all round gorgeousness and Rafa's animal magic but I've got 25 slams versus their 20, plus a winning head to head against both, plus the most weeks at world number one, plus the most Masters titles and the most Tour Finals ... so, you know, EYE AM THE FUCKING GOAT."

    Will be how he leaves it in 2024.
    Probably, though that he (or his people more likely) have whinged about the lack of love would indicate it does bother him.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I'm hearing the process of the full independent public inquiry into the pandemic is getting moving.

    The first thing will be a "stop notice" on the destruction of any records relating to how the pandemic was handled, what decisions were taken by whom and when.

    The cynic in me suggests phones, laptops and servers will be seeing plenty of activity as, and I can't believe this is in any way plausible, individuals seek to cover their tracks or delete incriminating emails, texts and other documents including meeting notes.

    I wonder how many of them have yet to understand, that you can never actually delete an email. Phone messages will be backed up too, at least on ‘work’ devices.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2021

    Good news: between 1 February and 21 June this year, a period of nearly five months, only 118 fully vaccinated people in England are known to have died from Covid.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/09/vaccines-working-as-expected-in-preventing-covid-deaths-say-experts

    2 people under 50....quick...panic alert....

    Of course every bodies favourite Non-Independent Sager gets a comment in that article, without telling you that.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Alistair said:

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    Big shout out to the Lions for going out to South Africa right now.
    Absolute farce of a tour for so many reasons.

    The Exeter anti-vaxxers should never have been picked.
    I notice it has been reported that the whole Italian football team have been vaccinated.

    It is really unacceptable for sports teams not to be. Especially any sport where you are going to be really in somebodies face for a long period of time e.g. rugby.
    My understanding was that the PL and FA took the decision not to jump ahead of the vaccine queue, and wait their turn normally.

    So a bunch of 18-30 year olds would have only got their first jab recently, and not due their second jab until August.

    Can you imagine the optics of 'millionaire footballers jump the vaccine queue ahead of the vulnerable' ?
    Footballers generally ? Sure.
    The current England squad ? No.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    Alistair said:

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    Big shout out to the Lions for going out to South Africa right now.
    Absolute farce of a tour for so many reasons.

    The Exeter anti-vaxxers should never have been picked.
    I notice it has been reported that the whole Italian football team have been vaccinated.

    It is really unacceptable for sports teams not to be. Especially any sport where you are going to be really in somebodies face for a long period of time e.g. rugby.
    My understanding was that the PL and FA took the decision not to jump ahead of the vaccine queue, and wait their turn normally.

    So a bunch of 18-30 year olds would have only got their first jab recently, and not due their second jab until August.

    Can you imagine the optics of 'millionaire footballers jump the vaccine queue ahead of the vulnerable' ?
    Honestly, if the FA made a large donation to medical research I don't think there would be. Well no more than the tw@tterati outraged over the future king of England or the Prime Minister getting a test before others.

    And we see it in other sports e.g. the lions all got the option to be fully jabbed right?
    Team GB as well.

    But I think the wealth of footballers made it a non starter.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited July 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    alex_ said:

    I wonder how much of the online radicalism and attraction to conspiracies (from all sides) can be linked directly to the pandemic and/or the massive increase in people working from home? Because people working from an office on work computers simply cannot spend all large chunks of the day surfing the internet and spending half their lives on social media echo chambers. And were less inclined to do so when they had better things to do with their evenings and weekends. And now they’ve been sucked in they can’t escape.

    I think most of us on here are lucky to have got settled on a social media site which isn’t an echo chamber and genuinely has a wide range of views and challenge to keep people grounded (however much some might like to argue otherwise).

    Yes, even when PB annoys the fuck out of me, I think of all the other sites where I could waste 5 hours a day, and I give thanks

    Indeed I can generally out-argue any of my friends about politics and economics (and much else besides) simply by virtue of my daily education on here
    Also, your friends are retards.
    Yes, there is that. Also it is possible their eyes just glaze over when I get to "point 7, the d'Hondt method", and they lose the will to debate
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    alex_ said:

    I wonder how much of the online radicalism and attraction to conspiracies (from all sides) can be linked directly to the pandemic and/or the massive increase in people working from home? Because people working from an office on work computers simply cannot spend all large chunks of the day surfing the internet and spending half their lives on social media echo chambers. And were less inclined to do so when they had better things to do with their evenings and weekends. And now they’ve been sucked in they can’t escape.

    I think most of us on here are lucky to have got settled on a social media site which isn’t an echo chamber and genuinely has a wide range of views and challenge to keep people grounded (however much some might like to argue otherwise).

    Yes, even when PB annoys the fuck out of me, I think of all the other sites where I could waste 5 hours a day, and I give thanks

    Indeed I can generally out-argue any of my friends about politics and economics (and much else besides) simply by virtue of my daily education on here
    Also, your friends are retards.
    I am sorry you shouldn't use that word "People differently intelligent" is the correct woke term now I believe
    Retard is the preferred term of anti wokeist masters of the universe. It’s what Eadronic would want.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics team told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team. But Henderson isn't fully fit and the only other alternative is 18 years old and only has one season of elite football under his belt.

    Bellingham is the future for that position.
    The analytics people are no doubt far cleverer (and richer) than me but it does jar when they often talk as if the analytics are right and the actual result on the pitch is wrong. England beat Germany 2-0 but that doesn't count because they were level on xG (expected goals).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
    Almost as acceptable as racism against "chavvy" WWC which you see from many on the left.
    That's not limited to the left.
    Not limited but increasingly the worst examples come from the left. As has been said before, try using some of the epitaphs often used against WWC and where they live against other groups. Chances are you would be getting a visit from the Police.
    Can I use a different example? This is slightly tangential, but we're all looking for stories that justify our existing prejudices, and the on-line news media (which is trained on a diet of clicks and shares) amplifies this.

    Imagine there's a story in the Guardian about some poor immigrant, been in the country for 20 years, been as good as gold, and is now getting deported. Aren't are systems terrible?

    Well, usually when the details come out, there's a very good reason for it. But - of course - the people who were initially indignant never see the new story.

    The same happens on the other side of the spectrum with the Sun runs with some story of a criminal getting a laughably light sentence: just five years for aggravated assault or somesuch. And then, later, when the full story is revealed, it turns out that there were serious mitigating circumstances that somehow never made it into the original news article. But, of course, by then The Sun has moved on.

    This all results in us getting ever more stuck in our comfortable intellectual ruts, where we never see information that challenges us, and we assume that we're always right and that people on the other side of the spectrum are wrong.

  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team.

    Bellington is the future for that position.
    Bellington’s not a screen in front of back four, he is more advanced and creative and dynamic. There is too much politics in the Chelsea court?

    Phillips was man of match in the first game. Rice has been England’s best player over all, IMO.
    Philips plays the screen role for Leeds and much more able to distribute the ball long and short.....Future midfield is Philips and Bellingham.

    Its not me saying it, England management don't trust Rice to do anything at pass. He is told if he gets it, he really is not to look to spray passes (which he tries for West Ham) and he is not to work at pace, he must slow it down. Southgate and Holland are too worried that he tries to work at the pace he does for West Ham he will make too many mistakes, that leads to what they call too many "chaotic" situations.
    England have used Phillips in this tournament as midfield ball winner, in various stages of advancement, a defensive forward at times. And he has been good. He’s not being used as screen like Rice.

    I’m not sure about Yorkshire Pirlo though. Pirlo was a deep lying playmaker par excellence, haven’t seen a range or reliability of passing from Phillips yet in this tournament. But in terms of pressing five yards very quickly and turning possession over, I like Phillips.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2021

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics team told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team. But Henderson isn't fully fit and the only other alternative is 18 years old and only has one season of elite football under his belt.

    Bellingham is the future for that position.
    The analytics people are no doubt far cleverer (and richer) than me but it does jar when they often talk as if the analytics are right and the actual result on the pitch is wrong. England beat Germany 2-0 but that doesn't count because they were level on xG (expected goals).
    xG is bullshit, especially for one game...no serious analyst uses it. Its become a running joke in the that community.

    All xG basically tells you is shoot from close and central.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics team told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team. But Henderson isn't fully fit and the only other alternative is 18 years old and only has one season of elite football under his belt.

    Bellingham is the future for that position.
    Yes, but a successful team is more than the sum of its parts. So Marc Albrighton is by no means the best winger in the country, yet a key part of Leicesters 2 most successful teams ever.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Good news: between 1 February and 21 June this year, a period of nearly five months, only 118 fully vaccinated people in England are known to have died from Covid.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/09/vaccines-working-as-expected-in-preventing-covid-deaths-say-experts

    If you, as (let us suppose) the advocate of the virus, were to have a plan, what would it be? Mine would be that we should brew our little folk in as many people as possible and hope that some managed to get around the dastardly vaccine.

    It'll likely be worse the longer we wait though, and I think this is just another unwinnable war.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,357

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team.

    Bellington is the future for that position.
    Bellington’s not a screen in front of back four, he is more advanced and creative and dynamic. There is too much politics in the Chelsea court?

    Phillips was man of match in the first game. Rice has been England’s best player over all, IMO.
    Philips plays the screen role for Leeds and much more able to distribute the ball long and short.....Future midfield is Philips and Bellingham.

    Its not me saying it, England management don't trust Rice to do anything at pace. He is told if he gets it, he really is not to look to spray passes (which he tries for West Ham) and he is not to work at pace, he must slow it down. Southgate and Holland are too worried that he tries to work at the pace he does for West Ham he will make too many mistakes, that leads to what they call too many "chaotic" situations.
    Why aren't we playing Henderson, or Bellingham instead, if they don't trust him?

    Not being snarky, interested in what you think the thinking is. Spain weren't worried about having a younger player than Bellingham in the first XI.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited July 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    Big shout out to the Lions for going out to South Africa right now.
    Absolute farce of a tour for so many reasons.

    The Exeter anti-vaxxers should never have been picked.
    I notice it has been reported that the whole Italian football team have been vaccinated.

    It is really unacceptable for sports teams not to be. Especially any sport where you are going to be really in somebodies face for a long period of time e.g. rugby.
    My understanding was that the PL and FA took the decision not to jump ahead of the vaccine queue, and wait their turn normally.

    So a bunch of 18-30 year olds would have only got their first jab recently, and not due their second jab until August.

    Can you imagine the optics of 'millionaire footballers jump the vaccine queue ahead of the vulnerable' ?
    Footballers generally ? Sure.
    The current England squad ? No.
    You can easily imagine Priti Patel and Mail moaning about Marxist woke millionaires getting the jab ahead of X vulnerable person who is now ill/dead.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team.

    Bellington is the future for that position.
    Bellington’s not a screen in front of back four, he is more advanced and creative and dynamic. There is too much politics in the Chelsea court?

    Phillips was man of match in the first game. Rice has been England’s best player over all, IMO.
    Philips plays the screen role for Leeds and much more able to distribute the ball long and short.....Future midfield is Philips and Bellingham.

    Its not me saying it, England management don't trust Rice to do anything at pass. He is told if he gets it, he really is not to look to spray passes (which he tries for West Ham) and he is not to work at pace, he must slow it down. Southgate and Holland are too worried that he tries to work at the pace he does for West Ham he will make too many mistakes, that leads to what they call too many "chaotic" situations.
    England have used Phillips in this tournament as midfield ball winner, in various stages of advancement, a defensive forward at times. And he has been good. He’s not being used as screen like Rice.

    I’m not sure about Yorkshire Pirlo though. Pirlo was a deep lying playmaker par excellence, haven’t seen a range or reliability of passing from Phillips yet in this tournament. But in terms of pressing five yards very quickly and turning possession over, I like Phillips.
    He is the screen role for Leeds. Because of the limited talent available in the midfield he has been asked to play a different role to his club team, and done so generally impressively.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team.

    Bellington is the future for that position.
    Bellington’s not a screen in front of back four, he is more advanced and creative and dynamic. There is too much politics in the Chelsea court?

    Phillips was man of match in the first game. Rice has been England’s best player over all, IMO.
    Philips plays the screen role for Leeds and much more able to distribute the ball long and short.....Future midfield is Philips and Bellingham.

    Its not me saying it, England management don't trust Rice to do anything at pace. He is told if he gets it, he really is not to look to spray passes (which he tries for West Ham) and he is not to work at pace, he must slow it down. Southgate and Holland are too worried that he tries to work at the pace he does for West Ham he will make too many mistakes, that leads to what they call too many "chaotic" situations.
    Why aren't we playing Henderson, or Bellingham instead, if they don't trust him?

    Not being snarky, interested in what you think the thinking is. Spain weren't worried about having a younger player than Bellingham in the first XI.
    Henderson was out for nearly four months after injury, had he not been injured he would have started every match.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    Alistair said:

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    Big shout out to the Lions for going out to South Africa right now.
    Absolute farce of a tour for so many reasons.

    The Exeter anti-vaxxers should never have been picked.
    I notice it has been reported that the whole Italian football team have been vaccinated.

    It is really unacceptable for sports teams not to be. Especially any sport where you are going to be really in somebodies face for a long period of time e.g. rugby.
    My understanding was that the PL and FA took the decision not to jump ahead of the vaccine queue, and wait their turn normally.

    So a bunch of 18-30 year olds would have only got their first jab recently, and not due their second jab until August.

    Can you imagine the optics of 'millionaire footballers jump the vaccine queue ahead of the vulnerable' ?
    Honestly, if the FA made a large donation to medical research I don't think there would be. Well no more than the tw@tterati outraged over the future king of England or the Prime Minister getting a test before others.

    And we see it in other sports e.g. the lions all got the option to be fully jabbed right?
    Agreed. I don't see anything particularly unreasonable there.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team.

    Bellington is the future for that position.
    Bellington’s not a screen in front of back four, he is more advanced and creative and dynamic. There is too much politics in the Chelsea court?

    Phillips was man of match in the first game. Rice has been England’s best player over all, IMO.
    Philips plays the screen role for Leeds and much more able to distribute the ball long and short.....Future midfield is Philips and Bellingham.

    Its not me saying it, England management don't trust Rice to do anything at pace. He is told if he gets it, he really is not to look to spray passes (which he tries for West Ham) and he is not to work at pace, he must slow it down. Southgate and Holland are too worried that he tries to work at the pace he does for West Ham he will make too many mistakes, that leads to what they call too many "chaotic" situations.
    Why aren't we playing Henderson, or Bellingham instead, if they don't trust him?

    Not being snarky, interested in what you think the thinking is. Spain weren't worried about having a younger player than Bellingham in the first XI.
    Henderson isn't fully fit. Bellingham is really young and really inexperience. I think he looks the real deal, but he has only played one season at the highest level. Its a huge ask for him to be the man who links everything for England based on that.

    Southgate's is conservative (with a small c), he plays players he trusts, hence why Sterling was always going to play, even though his club form has been poor. Same as Walker.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    Calvin MAGA Robinson giving a masterclass in ‘booing knee taking good but the England team are fab’ fuddery on C4 just know.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team.

    Bellington is the future for that position.
    Bellington’s not a screen in front of back four, he is more advanced and creative and dynamic. There is too much politics in the Chelsea court?

    Phillips was man of match in the first game. Rice has been England’s best player over all, IMO.
    Philips plays the screen role for Leeds and much more able to distribute the ball long and short.....Future midfield is Philips and Bellingham.

    Its not me saying it, England management don't trust Rice to do anything at pace. He is told if he gets it, he really is not to look to spray passes (which he tries for West Ham) and he is not to work at pace, he must slow it down. Southgate and Holland are too worried that he tries to work at the pace he does for West Ham he will make too many mistakes, that leads to what they call too many "chaotic" situations.
    Why aren't we playing Henderson, or Bellingham instead, if they don't trust him?

    Not being snarky, interested in what you think the thinking is. Spain weren't worried about having a younger player than Bellingham in the first XI.
    I think it’s because Rice does the screen role they need far better than the other players in squad, and anyone else they could have called up. But that Francis has his own opinion of players attributes is making it a very good discussion. 🙂
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    There’s some amazing fielding from the Indian Women’s cricket team!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    Foxy said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics team told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team. But Henderson isn't fully fit and the only other alternative is 18 years old and only has one season of elite football under his belt.

    Bellingham is the future for that position.
    Yes, but a successful team is more than the sum of its parts. So Marc Albrighton is by no means the best winger in the country, yet a key part of Leicesters 2 most successful teams ever.
    That's not the issue....England have to play a certain way because of Rice, not that they dreamt up the system and Rice is the perfect fit for that role. It is why England pass back more than any other team in the tournament, why they create fewer chances than basically all the leading teams.

    That isn't to do down England achievement, I am just saying they developed the system because of the limitations. The slow centre backs and the sub-par midfield drives the system.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    alex_ said:

    I wonder how much of the online radicalism and attraction to conspiracies (from all sides) can be linked directly to the pandemic and/or the massive increase in people working from home? Because people working from an office on work computers simply cannot spend all large chunks of the day surfing the internet and spending half their lives on social media echo chambers. And were less inclined to do so when they had better things to do with their evenings and weekends. And now they’ve been sucked in they can’t escape.

    I think most of us on here are lucky to have got settled on a social media site which isn’t an echo chamber and genuinely has a wide range of views and challenge to keep people grounded (however much some might like to argue otherwise).

    Yes, even when PB annoys the fuck out of me, I think of all the other sites where I could waste 5 hours a day, and I give thanks

    Indeed I can generally out-argue any of my friends about politics and economics (and much else besides) simply by virtue of my daily education on here
    Also, your friends are retards.
    Like calls to like? It's why my friends are weirdos and arseholes.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2021
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team.

    Bellington is the future for that position.
    Bellington’s not a screen in front of back four, he is more advanced and creative and dynamic. There is too much politics in the Chelsea court?

    Phillips was man of match in the first game. Rice has been England’s best player over all, IMO.
    Philips plays the screen role for Leeds and much more able to distribute the ball long and short.....Future midfield is Philips and Bellingham.

    Its not me saying it, England management don't trust Rice to do anything at pace. He is told if he gets it, he really is not to look to spray passes (which he tries for West Ham) and he is not to work at pace, he must slow it down. Southgate and Holland are too worried that he tries to work at the pace he does for West Ham he will make too many mistakes, that leads to what they call too many "chaotic" situations.
    Why aren't we playing Henderson, or Bellingham instead, if they don't trust him?

    Not being snarky, interested in what you think the thinking is. Spain weren't worried about having a younger player than Bellingham in the first XI.
    I think it’s because Rice does the screen role they need far better than the other players in squad, and anyone else they could have called up. But that Francis has his own opinion of players attributes is making it a very good discussion. 🙂
    Philips and Henderson are better at that role, with the added advantage they are more creative. But Philips has to play out of position, due to lack of strength in the midfield ranks in general and Henderson isn't fit.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Omnium said:

    Good news: between 1 February and 21 June this year, a period of nearly five months, only 118 fully vaccinated people in England are known to have died from Covid.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/09/vaccines-working-as-expected-in-preventing-covid-deaths-say-experts

    If you, as (let us suppose) the advocate of the virus, were to have a plan, what would it be? Mine would be that we should brew our little folk in as many people as possible and hope that some managed to get around the dastardly vaccine.

    It'll likely be worse the longer we wait though, and I think this is just another unwinnable war.
    Another, nastier variant might arise here but we'd be very unlucky if it did, given that the country has already been saturated in the virus twice and only one has popped up so far. There's also a live argument as to how far it's possible for Covid to keep mutating into ever more transmissible and/or deadly forms.

    But yes, the only way we could've even attempted to suppress a large exit wave, especially with Delta abroad in the land, would be a very tight and lengthy lockdown, and there was zero appetite for that in the Government and not that much amongst the population either. And I concur with the argument that it's best to let it rip now than in the Winter.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive: Ministers are being asked to not say “it’s coming home” because it “does not go down well” with other countries and might damage a World Cup bid, a leaked DCMS email shows

    Story with @Kate_M_Proctor https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/leaked-email-shows-ministers-being-urged-not-to-say-its-coming-home

    We're not getting the World Cup, for all sorts of reasons, and simply winning the Euros might well be seen by some as sufficient reason not to award, were another needed.
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Done at Wimbledon. Djokovic in three straight sets, albeit fairly close ones.

    Will be astonished if he doesn't win on Sunday.

    In other news, the Duke of Kent, who is now 85, is reportedly retiring as President of the All England Club. One suspects that they've got Kate (who is currently the Patron of the Club) lined up to replace him.

    Not at the peak of his powers, but with father time catching up with Federer and injuries with Nadal right now he stands alone. Peerless.
    I think he uses the lack of love as fuel.

    "Look, you can wibble on as much as you like about Roger's all round gorgeousness and Rafa's animal magic but I've got 25 slams versus their 20, plus a winning head to head against both, plus the most weeks at world number one, plus the most Masters titles and the most Tour Finals ... so, you know, EYE AM THE FUCKING GOAT."

    Will be how he leaves it in 2024.
    Probably, though that he (or his people more likely) have whinged about the lack of love would indicate it does bother him.
    That's what I mean. It bugs him no end and drives him to keep winning.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics team told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team. But Henderson isn't fully fit and the only other alternative is 18 years old and only has one season of elite football under his belt.

    Bellingham is the future for that position.
    The analytics people are no doubt far cleverer (and richer) than me but it does jar when they often talk as if the analytics are right and the actual result on the pitch is wrong. England beat Germany 2-0 but that doesn't count because they were level on xG (expected goals).
    xG is bullshit, especially for one game...no serious analyst uses it. Its become a running joke in the that community.

    All xG basically tells you is shoot from close and central.
    As Klopp pointed out he doesn't trust xG because it seems not to realise excellent goalkeeping.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Foxy said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics team told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team. But Henderson isn't fully fit and the only other alternative is 18 years old and only has one season of elite football under his belt.

    Bellingham is the future for that position.
    Yes, but a successful team is more than the sum of its parts. So Marc Albrighton is by no means the best winger in the country, yet a key part of Leicesters 2 most successful teams ever.
    That's not the issue....England have to play a certain way because of Rice, not that they dreamt up the system and Rice is the perfect fit for that role. It is why England pass back more than any other team in the tournament, why they create fewer chances than basically all the leading teams.

    That isn't to do down England achievement, I am just saying they developed the system because of the limitations. The slow centre backs and the sub-par midfield drives the system.
    All I am saying is that don't change a winning formula. If a system works, and players understand their system and role in the team then stick to it.

    Rogers at Leicester gets the same stick for sideways and back passes, but that is a successful game plan.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2021

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics team told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team. But Henderson isn't fully fit and the only other alternative is 18 years old and only has one season of elite football under his belt.

    Bellingham is the future for that position.
    The analytics people are no doubt far cleverer (and richer) than me but it does jar when they often talk as if the analytics are right and the actual result on the pitch is wrong. England beat Germany 2-0 but that doesn't count because they were level on xG (expected goals).
    xG is bullshit, especially for one game...no serious analyst uses it. Its become a running joke in the that community.

    All xG basically tells you is shoot from close and central.
    As Klopp pointed out he doesn't trust xG because it seems not to realise excellent goalkeeping.
    The only people who use it are the media. Its like overall strike rate (or batting average) for batsmen in T20, none of the teams are using that, but the batsman strides to the wicket and Sky Sports flash that stat up.

    In cricket is about what match up "advantage" a batsmen has vs given bowlers in the rotation, stage of the game, ground etc.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics team told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team. But Henderson isn't fully fit and the only other alternative is 18 years old and only has one season of elite football under his belt.

    Bellingham is the future for that position.
    The analytics people are no doubt far cleverer (and richer) than me but it does jar when they often talk as if the analytics are right and the actual result on the pitch is wrong. England beat Germany 2-0 but that doesn't count because they were level on xG (expected goals).
    xG is bullshit, especially for one game...no serious analyst uses it. Its become a running joke in the that community.

    All xG basically tells you is shoot from close and central.
    As Klopp pointed out he doesn't trust xG because it seems not to realise excellent goalkeeping.
    The only people who use it are the media. Its like overall strike rate (or batting average) for batsmen in T20, none of the teams are using that, but the batsman strides to the wicket and Sky Sports flash that stat up.
    The stat Liverpool use a lot is the pre-assist, ie the pass before the assist.

    I suspect that will get wider prominence in the media in the next few seasons.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    And why wouldn't she?

    EU chief Ursula von der Leyen says she wants Italy to beat England in Euro 2020 final

    https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1413576194230980609?s=20
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    Good news: between 1 February and 21 June this year, a period of nearly five months, only 118 fully vaccinated people in England are known to have died from Covid.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/09/vaccines-working-as-expected-in-preventing-covid-deaths-say-experts

    Nothing other than the vaccines matters. Social distancing, contact tracing, masks, isolation, quarantining are all basically irrelevant now. The NPIs will not stop Delta, but the vaccines will save most lives.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics team told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team. But Henderson isn't fully fit and the only other alternative is 18 years old and only has one season of elite football under his belt.

    Bellingham is the future for that position.
    Yes, but a successful team is more than the sum of its parts. So Marc Albrighton is by no means the best winger in the country, yet a key part of Leicesters 2 most successful teams ever.
    That's not the issue....England have to play a certain way because of Rice, not that they dreamt up the system and Rice is the perfect fit for that role. It is why England pass back more than any other team in the tournament, why they create fewer chances than basically all the leading teams.

    That isn't to do down England achievement, I am just saying they developed the system because of the limitations. The slow centre backs and the sub-par midfield drives the system.
    All I am saying is that don't change a winning formula. If a system works, and players understand their system and role in the team then stick to it.

    Rogers at Leicester gets the same stick for sideways and back passes, but that is a successful game plan.
    My understanding is that Southgate and Holland are looking to by the next World Cup to have changed it.

    Not only do England not create enough chances, relying on not conceding, I imagine other teams will becoming increasing effective against it as it very predictable.

    Italy's system on the other hand has a lot more moving parts, making it much harder to play against. They come quick with a lot of interchange of players into different positions.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    And why wouldn't she?

    EU chief Ursula von der Leyen says she wants Italy to beat England in Euro 2020 final

    https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1413576194230980609?s=20

    Good for you Ursula.

    I want England to hammer Italy, 3 or 4 to nil. Not because of Brexit or the EU or hatred of Italy. But because England's my team, and I support them and want them to win.

    Why do you want Italy to win, Ursula?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    Calvin MAGA Robinson giving a masterclass in ‘booing knee taking good but the England team are fab’ fuddery on C4 just know.

    With quite an old looking Billy Bragg. But I've just checked and he has a right to look quite old. He's quite old.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,928
    rcs1000 said:

    And why wouldn't she?

    EU chief Ursula von der Leyen says she wants Italy to beat England in Euro 2020 final

    https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1413576194230980609?s=20

    Good for you Ursula.

    I want England to hammer Italy, 3 or 4 to nil. Not because of Brexit or the EU or hatred of Italy. But because England's my team, and I support them and want them to win.

    Why do you want Italy to win, Ursula?
    Perhaps they want a single European team?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    rcs1000 said:

    And why wouldn't she?

    EU chief Ursula von der Leyen says she wants Italy to beat England in Euro 2020 final

    https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1413576194230980609?s=20

    Good for you Ursula.

    I want England to hammer Italy, 3 or 4 to nil. Not because of Brexit or the EU or hatred of Italy. But because England's my team, and I support them and want them to win.

    Why do you want Italy to win, Ursula?
    I read she has some Italian ancestry.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics team told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team. But Henderson isn't fully fit and the only other alternative is 18 years old and only has one season of elite football under his belt.

    Bellingham is the future for that position.
    The analytics people are no doubt far cleverer (and richer) than me but it does jar when they often talk as if the analytics are right and the actual result on the pitch is wrong. England beat Germany 2-0 but that doesn't count because they were level on xG (expected goals).
    xG is bullshit, especially for one game...no serious analyst uses it. Its become a running joke in the that community.

    All xG basically tells you is shoot from close and central.
    As Klopp pointed out he doesn't trust xG because it seems not to realise excellent goalkeeping.
    Schmeichel jr had a very good night on Tuesday - probably a couple more saves than an average goalie, even at international level.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team.

    Bellington is the future for that position.
    Bellington’s not a screen in front of back four, he is more advanced and creative and dynamic. There is too much politics in the Chelsea court?

    Phillips was man of match in the first game. Rice has been England’s best player over all, IMO.
    Philips plays the screen role for Leeds and much more able to distribute the ball long and short.....Future midfield is Philips and Bellingham.

    Its not me saying it, England management don't trust Rice to do anything at pace. He is told if he gets it, he really is not to look to spray passes (which he tries for West Ham) and he is not to work at pace, he must slow it down. Southgate and Holland are too worried that he tries to work at the pace he does for West Ham he will make too many mistakes, that leads to what they call too many "chaotic" situations.
    Why aren't we playing Henderson, or Bellingham instead, if they don't trust him?

    Not being snarky, interested in what you think the thinking is. Spain weren't worried about having a younger player than Bellingham in the first XI.
    I think it’s because Rice does the screen role they need far better than the other players in squad, and anyone else they could have called up. But that Francis has his own opinion of players attributes is making it a very good discussion. 🙂
    Philips and Henderson are better at that role, with the added advantage they are more creative. But Philips has to play out of position, due to lack of strength in the midfield ranks in general and Henderson isn't fit.
    Henderson has turned out at centre back for Liverpool, but I don’t think he has often just sat deep as water carrier for either club or country. Teams don’t all line up the same, Klopp wouldn’t send an England side out like Southgate, so role and duty in the system isn’t going to read across as symmetrically as you imply. Phillips key attribute of press and win ball high up the pitch would actually suite Klopps style IMO.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    rcs1000 said:

    And why wouldn't she?

    EU chief Ursula von der Leyen says she wants Italy to beat England in Euro 2020 final

    https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1413576194230980609?s=20

    Good for you Ursula.

    I want England to hammer Italy, 3 or 4 to nil. Not because of Brexit or the EU or hatred of Italy. But because England's my team, and I support them and want them to win.

    Why do you want Italy to win, Ursula?
    "hatred of Italy"

    Is there such a thing?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited July 2021
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team.

    Bellington is the future for that position.
    Bellington’s not a screen in front of back four, he is more advanced and creative and dynamic. There is too much politics in the Chelsea court?

    Phillips was man of match in the first game. Rice has been England’s best player over all, IMO.
    Philips plays the screen role for Leeds and much more able to distribute the ball long and short.....Future midfield is Philips and Bellingham.

    Its not me saying it, England management don't trust Rice to do anything at pace. He is told if he gets it, he really is not to look to spray passes (which he tries for West Ham) and he is not to work at pace, he must slow it down. Southgate and Holland are too worried that he tries to work at the pace he does for West Ham he will make too many mistakes, that leads to what they call too many "chaotic" situations.
    Why aren't we playing Henderson, or Bellingham instead, if they don't trust him?

    Not being snarky, interested in what you think the thinking is. Spain weren't worried about having a younger player than Bellingham in the first XI.
    I think it’s because Rice does the screen role they need far better than the other players in squad, and anyone else they could have called up. But that Francis has his own opinion of players attributes is making it a very good discussion. 🙂
    Philips and Henderson are better at that role, with the added advantage they are more creative. But Philips has to play out of position, due to lack of strength in the midfield ranks in general and Henderson isn't fit.
    Henderson has turned out at centre back for Liverpool, but I don’t think he has often just sat deep as water carrier for either club or country. Teams don’t all line up the same, Klopp wouldn’t send an England side out like Southgate, so role and duty in the system isn’t going to read across as symmetrically as you imply. Phillips key attribute of press and win ball high up the pitch would actually suite Klopps style IMO.
    Philips for Leeds is the deep water carrier. Everything starts with him picking it up from the back 4. But he is having to play Henderson's role, because Henderson isn't fit, and we don't have anybody else, but an 18 year old with very limited experience.

    Henderson is a smart footballer and can do a number of roles extremely well.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Sandpit said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics team told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team. But Henderson isn't fully fit and the only other alternative is 18 years old and only has one season of elite football under his belt.

    Bellingham is the future for that position.
    The analytics people are no doubt far cleverer (and richer) than me but it does jar when they often talk as if the analytics are right and the actual result on the pitch is wrong. England beat Germany 2-0 but that doesn't count because they were level on xG (expected goals).
    xG is bullshit, especially for one game...no serious analyst uses it. Its become a running joke in the that community.

    All xG basically tells you is shoot from close and central.
    As Klopp pointed out he doesn't trust xG because it seems not to realise excellent goalkeeping.
    Schmeichel jr had a very good night on Tuesday - probably a couple more saves than an average goalie, even at international level.
    He is really coming into his own. At 34.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited July 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    MrEd said:

    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
    Almost as acceptable as racism against "chavvy" WWC which you see from many on the left.
    That's not limited to the left.
    Not limited but increasingly the worst examples come from the left. As has been said before, try using some of the epitaphs often used against WWC and where they live against other groups. Chances are you would be getting a visit from the Police.
    Can I use a different example? This is slightly tangential, but we're all looking for stories that justify our existing prejudices, and the on-line news media (which is trained on a diet of clicks and shares) amplifies this.

    Imagine there's a story in the Guardian about some poor immigrant, been in the country for 20 years, been as good as gold, and is now getting deported. Aren't are systems terrible?

    Well, usually when the details come out, there's a very good reason for it. But - of course - the people who were initially indignant never see the new story.

    The same happens on the other side of the spectrum with the Sun runs with some story of a criminal getting a laughably light sentence: just five years for aggravated assault or somesuch. And then, later, when the full story is revealed, it turns out that there were serious mitigating circumstances that somehow never made it into the original news article. But, of course, by then The Sun has moved on.

    This all results in us getting ever more stuck in our comfortable intellectual ruts, where we never see information that challenges us, and we assume that we're always right and that people on the other side of the spectrum are wrong.
    Eg that supposed transperson with their bits out in the female spa 'story' the other day. Total bollox - excuse pun - but it served its purpose for those who grabbed and circ'd. Anger stoked.

    Course that's an example (of your point) that serves MY views - there are ones the other way and in all ways.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
    And who was it who assured us the analysts have proven Rice couldn’t possibly play as well as he has done? Anyone wish to put their hands up?
    I don't think analysts ever said he couldn't play "well", it is that he is limited and that the team use him a particular way because of his limitations. Which is exactly what they have done.

    He isn't allowed to make expansive passes, he is told he must slow its right down, because they aren't confident that he won't make a mistake if he tries to work at pace.
    It was you was it? Oh Francis. What is posted on PB lives for ever. Shall we go back and have a look?
    It isn't just my opinion. Chelsea analytics told Lampard he was not to sign Rice, because of a number of limitations that they didn't believe he was able to improve upon. England don't think he can either. He isn't a world class footballer, probably the weakest player in the England team.

    Bellington is the future for that position.
    Bellington’s not a screen in front of back four, he is more advanced and creative and dynamic. There is too much politics in the Chelsea court?

    Phillips was man of match in the first game. Rice has been England’s best player over all, IMO.
    Philips plays the screen role for Leeds and much more able to distribute the ball long and short.....Future midfield is Philips and Bellingham.

    Its not me saying it, England management don't trust Rice to do anything at pace. He is told if he gets it, he really is not to look to spray passes (which he tries for West Ham) and he is not to work at pace, he must slow it down. Southgate and Holland are too worried that he tries to work at the pace he does for West Ham he will make too many mistakes, that leads to what they call too many "chaotic" situations.
    Why aren't we playing Henderson, or Bellingham instead, if they don't trust him?

    Not being snarky, interested in what you think the thinking is. Spain weren't worried about having a younger player than Bellingham in the first XI.
    I think it’s because Rice does the screen role they need far better than the other players in squad, and anyone else they could have called up. But that Francis has his own opinion of players attributes is making it a very good discussion. 🙂
    Philips and Henderson are better at that role, with the added advantage they are more creative. But Philips has to play out of position, due to lack of strength in the midfield ranks in general and Henderson isn't fit.
    Henderson has turned out at centre back for Liverpool, but I don’t think he has often just sat deep as water carrier for either club or country. Teams don’t all line up the same, Klopp wouldn’t send an England side out like Southgate, so role and duty in the system isn’t going to read across as symmetrically as you imply. Phillips key attribute of press and win ball high up the pitch would actually suite Klopps style IMO.
    Philips for Leeds is the deep water carrier. Everything starts with him picking it up from the back 4. But he is having to play Henderson's role, because Henderson isn't fit, and we don't have anybody else, but an 18 year old.
    That would be what you would expect from deep lying playmaker, not anchor man.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    rcs1000 said:

    And why wouldn't she?

    EU chief Ursula von der Leyen says she wants Italy to beat England in Euro 2020 final

    https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1413576194230980609?s=20

    Good for you Ursula.

    I want England to hammer Italy, 3 or 4 to nil. Not because of Brexit or the EU or hatred of Italy. But because England's my team, and I support them and want them to win.

    Why do you want Italy to win, Ursula?
    To be fair I would want Wales, Scotland or Ireland to win if they were playing despite being English. Nothing wrong with supporting other nations in your union at all especially if she is representing them as their president.
This discussion has been closed.