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At Batley and Spen Starmer’s LAB did something that the Tories haven’t managed since 2016… – politic

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited July 2021 in General
imageAt Batley and Spen Starmer’s LAB did something that the Tories haven’t managed since 2016… – politicalbetting.com

In all the focus on Labour’s by-election performances, there has been much less attention to the Tories who have struggled whenever they’ve been defending a seat.

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Test
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,567
    edited July 2021
    FPT
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    In the replies:

    "The perfect cover under which to get rid of English Votes for English Laws"
    It makes a change from more Union Flags than an Orange march, I must say.

    But why scrub EVEL? And why is HYUFD so exercised about hacing an English Parliament all of a sudden?
    I really don't know what the Government is playing at when it comes to EVEL. It would be fascinating to hear a convincing explanation.

    As for Unionists, they're at sixes and sevens over how to put right the mess that New Labour created. If you're not going either to reverse devolution outright or accept that dissolution is inevitable, then federalism is the other stable endpoint - in theory. Some embrace it, others think that an English Parliament would give rise to an English National Party in about five minutes flat and it would pull the whole house down.

    Once is moved once again to conclude that Tam Dalyell was right. Devolution = death to the UK. It's just a matter of time.
    The best I can do is to assume that it has been scrubbed so that the likes of HYUFD can make up stories about being under the SNP jackboot in the next General Election, as indeed he has helpfully just done - completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The development of an English Pmt is not in itself illogical but the Tories have been hostile to any interference with what suited Charles I et al that their apparent enthusiasm is on a par with the DUP legalising gay dinosaur birthday cakes with "Lá Breithe Shona dhuit!" iced on them. So a healthyt dose of scepticism is called for.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,219
    Hurrah for Kim, Batley and Sir Keir.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    Not necessarily, from 1987 to 1992 the Tories lost 7 of the 10 by elections in seats they held to Labour or the LDs (not holding a single seat after Hague's hold of Richmond in February 1989) but still went on to narrowly win in 1992
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,285
    rescued FPT, as I thought this splendid piece of HYUFD/Boris hubris ought not go unremarked...
    HYUFD said:


    ...Allowing an indyref2 with a 50% chance of a Yes vote which would end Boris' premiership the next day and see him go down in history for all eternity as the 21st century Lord North who lost Scotland rather than the architect of Brexit he wants to be remembered for is a different matter entirely.

    Hence Boris has said there should be no indyref2 for 40 years...

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wait-40-years-for-another-scottish-independence-vote-says-boris-johnson-kwb7njq99

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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    edited July 2021
    Nigelb said:

    rescued FPT, as I thought this splendid piece of HYUFD/Boris hubris ought not go unremarked...

    HYUFD said:


    ...Allowing an indyref2 with a 50% chance of a Yes vote which would end Boris' premiership the next day and see him go down in history for all eternity as the 21st century Lord North who lost Scotland rather than the architect of Brexit he wants to be remembered for is a different matter entirely.

    Hence Boris has said there should be no indyref2 for 40 years...

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wait-40-years-for-another-scottish-independence-vote-says-boris-johnson-kwb7njq99

    There was no second EU referendum for 41 years after the first EEC referendum in 1975, though as I have said most likely an indyref2 will occur if and when Labour next get into power
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,219
    There's a lot to be said for leaving FPT stuff on the PT.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2021
    The study from Public Health England (PHE), which included more than 1 million people in at-risk groups, found:

    overall vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic disease in risk groups is approximately 60% after one dose of either AstraZeneca or Pfizer-BioNTech, with little variation by age after 2 doses, vaccine effectiveness is 81% with AstraZeneca in people in risk groups aged 16 to 64. No data is available for Pfizer-BioNTech in people in risk groups aged 65 and over.

    Vaccine effectiveness with Pfizer-BioNTech is 89% and 80% with AstraZeneca. For those who are immunosuppressed, vaccine effectiveness after a second dose is 74%, with similar protection to those who are not in a risk group. This rises from 4% after a first dose

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/covid-19-vaccines-highly-effective-in-clinical-risk-groups

  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,567

    This may be of interest to someone:

    A friend has 2 tickets in a corporate box for the England v Italy game on Sunday. He paid £3000 each, but he didn't realise when he bought them months ago that it was going to be the same day as his wedding! If you are interested, he is looking for someone to take his place...

    It's at Leeds Registry Office, at 4pm. Her name is Sharon -- she's 5'4", about 8 stone, quite pretty, has her own income and is a really good cook!

    But can she do faggots and Y. pud?
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,519
    edited July 2021
    Off topic.

    A friend of mine, ages ago, managed to secure a ticket for the final at Wembley on Sunday. £300, including accommodation. However, the idiot has only just realised that this clashes with his wedding!

    So, if anybody is interested in taking his place, could they let him know? It's at 4pm, Sunday, Burnley Registry Office. The bride's name is Brenda.

    Edit - oh god, TSE beat me to it!
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094

    This may be of interest to someone:

    A friend has 2 tickets in a corporate box for the England v Italy game on Sunday. He paid £3000 each, but he didn't realise when he bought them months ago that it was going to be the same day as his wedding! If you are interested, he is looking for someone to take his place...

    It's at Leeds Registry Office, at 4pm. Her name is Sharon -- she's 5'4", about 8 stone, quite pretty, has her own income and is a really good cook!

    Off topic.

    A friend of mine, ages ago, managed to secure a ticket for the final at Wembley on Sunday. £300, including accommodation. However, the idiot has only just realised that this clashes with his wedding!

    So, if anybody is interested in taking his place, could they let him know? It's at 4pm, Sunday, Burnley Registry Office. The bride's name is Brenda.

    Aaaaand...they’re off.
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    ChelyabinskChelyabinsk Posts: 488
    edited July 2021
    Carnyx said:

    completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The only separatists who are principled enough to keep clear of English legislation are Sinn Fein.

    Scots MPs attacked over fees vote (27 January, 2004)

    A political row has broken out over the role of Scottish Labour MPs whose votes proved crucial as the government won the vote on university top-up fees... the plans will not apply north of the border... The Tories' sole Scottish MP, Peter Duncan, abstained on Tuesday's vote. Mr Duncan said: "This is a dark day for British democracy, and the actions of Scottish MPs are reprehensible...

    Scottish National Party MP Alex Salmond argued that Mr Duncan had "sat on his hands" and done nothing while Scottish interests were "put to the sword" by Scottish Labour MPs... "The needs of Scottish higher education required top-up fees to be voted down and Scottish Labour and Tory have sold Scotland out. For that, they will now face the wrath of the Scottish electorate."


    See also Sunday Trading, fox hunting, and anything which might have Barnett consequentials.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,834
    ydoethur said:

    This may be of interest to someone:

    A friend has 2 tickets in a corporate box for the England v Italy game on Sunday. He paid £3000 each, but he didn't realise when he bought them months ago that it was going to be the same day as his wedding! If you are interested, he is looking for someone to take his place...

    It's at Leeds Registry Office, at 4pm. Her name is Sharon -- she's 5'4", about 8 stone, quite pretty, has her own income and is a really good cook!

    Off topic.

    A friend of mine, ages ago, managed to secure a ticket for the final at Wembley on Sunday. £300, including accommodation. However, the idiot has only just realised that this clashes with his wedding!

    So, if anybody is interested in taking his place, could they let him know? It's at 4pm, Sunday, Burnley Registry Office. The bride's name is Brenda.

    Aaaaand...they’re off.
    The old ones are the best ones.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,900

    This may be of interest to someone:

    A friend has 2 tickets in a corporate box for the England v Italy game on Sunday. He paid £3000 each, but he didn't realise when he bought them months ago that it was going to be the same day as his wedding! If you are interested, he is looking for someone to take his place...

    It's at Leeds Registry Office, at 4pm. Her name is Sharon -- she's 5'4", about 8 stone, quite pretty, has her own income and is a really good cook!

    Afternoon All!
    That’s fairly elderly, Mr E; bit sexist, too, the bit about cooking!
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    Typo - Goldwsmith

    Generally, the Tories have been better at pushing out MPs who try and hang around too long.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232
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    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    Random story but was in the bank today to do a few bits and pieces and some guy kicked off quite a lot because they were not keen on accepting his cash to pay a bill...he ended up having a shouting match with the manager about how it was illegal to refuse cash. Sort of funny in a weird way.

    Don't think they were ever going to refuse his cash, just that they wanted to process it a different way, but he made enough of a fuss that I think they ended up just doing whatever was needed to get him in and out the place ASAP.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232

    This may be of interest to someone:

    A friend has 2 tickets in a corporate box for the England v Italy game on Sunday. He paid £3000 each, but he didn't realise when he bought them months ago that it was going to be the same day as his wedding! If you are interested, he is looking for someone to take his place...

    It's at Leeds Registry Office, at 4pm. Her name is Sharon -- she's 5'4", about 8 stone, quite pretty, has her own income and is a really good cook!

    Afternoon All!
    That’s fairly elderly, Mr E; bit sexist, too, the bit about cooking!
    It came from a female friend.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072
    Nigelb said:

    rescued FPT, as I thought this splendid piece of HYUFD/Boris hubris ought not go unremarked...

    HYUFD said:


    ...Allowing an indyref2 with a 50% chance of a Yes vote which would end Boris' premiership the next day and see him go down in history for all eternity as the 21st century Lord North who lost Scotland rather than the architect of Brexit he wants to be remembered for is a different matter entirely.

    Hence Boris has said there should be no indyref2 for 40 years...

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wait-40-years-for-another-scottish-independence-vote-says-boris-johnson-kwb7njq99

    The "Boris" gaze barely stretches to 40 minutes let alone 40 years.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,032
    The new PPC for Leicestershire is equally gorgeous!
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    kjhkjh Posts: 10,565

    There's a lot to be said for leaving FPT stuff on the PT.

    Going by my exchanges on the last thread I concur with that.
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,049
    I think the most notable thing about this is that, as discussed on here previously, the Conservatives have been a lot more proactive, or a lot more successful, at moving on MPs who are at risk of triggering by-elections. We can imagine that if there had been as many by-elections in Conservative-held seats as Labour-held seats in the last few years then, sure, the Tories might have held one of them, but they could also have lost a fair few, and we see how that can have an effect on a leader's prospects with the importance of the recent by-elections to Starmer.

    Indeed, since 2010, there have been 26 by-elections in Labour-held seats and only 9 by-elections in Conservative-held seats - despite their being more Conservative MPs than Labour MPs for all of that period. In the 9 by-elections the Tory record is 3 holds, 3 losses to Lib Dems, 2 losses to UKIP and 1 loss to Labour.

    Imagine scaling up that by-election record in defences to the same rate of by-elections as in Labour-held seats, and it's easy to see how important this strategy of avoiding by-elections has been to avoiding a narrative of weakness and defeat from being built around the Conservatives.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,834

    This may be of interest to someone:

    A friend has 2 tickets in a corporate box for the England v Italy game on Sunday. He paid £3000 each, but he didn't realise when he bought them months ago that it was going to be the same day as his wedding! If you are interested, he is looking for someone to take his place...

    It's at Leeds Registry Office, at 4pm. Her name is Sharon -- she's 5'4", about 8 stone, quite pretty, has her own income and is a really good cook!

    Afternoon All!
    That’s fairly elderly, Mr E; bit sexist, too, the bit about cooking!
    It came from a female friend.
    That joke went around in 1996.

    Hell, it probably went around in 1966 too!
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,219

    Random story but was in the bank today to do a few bits and pieces and some guy kicked off quite a lot because they were not keen on accepting his cash to pay a bill...he ended up having a shouting match with the manager about how it was illegal to refuse cash. Sort of funny in a weird way.

    Don't think they were ever going to refuse his cash, just that they wanted to process it a different way, but he made enough of a fuss that I think they ended up just doing whatever was needed to get him in and out the place ASAP.

    When the new £10 note came out, or rather after the old tenner was withdrawn, there was a guy in the Post Office trying to change an old one, and the staff refused. He started to kick off so in the end I swapped it for one of mine. I don't know. I suppose if £10 means so much to you, then things are pretty desperate. On the other hand, it's the government that makes the rules, not the lowly-paid woman behind the counter.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072

    There's a lot to be said for leaving FPT stuff on the PT.

    Yep, I implemented that rule for tumbles with Philip. Changed my life.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2021
    Ousmane Dembele and Antoine Griezmann appear to be massive racists...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v0D7HKYOJI
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072

    Off topic.

    A friend of mine, ages ago, managed to secure a ticket for the final at Wembley on Sunday. £300, including accommodation. However, the idiot has only just realised that this clashes with his wedding!

    So, if anybody is interested in taking his place, could they let him know? It's at 4pm, Sunday, Burnley Registry Office. The bride's name is Brenda.

    Edit - oh god, TSE beat me to it!

    Yours is better though - :smile:
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232

    Ousmane Dembele and Antoine Griezmann appear to be massive racists...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v0D7HKYOJI

    Typical French people.

    Is 'amusing' considering Rakuten sponsor Barca.

    Barca really are up shit creek, they really cannot afford to lose a sponsor.

    https://theathletic.co.uk/2689613/2021/07/06/explained-why-barcelona-cannot-register-their-new-signings-and-what-it-means-for-lionel-messi/
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,572
    I reckon that Cav will do it in Paris. The perfect place to break the record.

    I remember when he was led out round the final corner by Wiggo in yellow with half the team still there. This time it could be the World Champion at the front of the train and another textbook execution. I hope.
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,519
    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
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    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,368

    This may be of interest to someone:

    A friend has 2 tickets in a corporate box for the England v Italy game on Sunday. He paid £3000 each, but he didn't realise when he bought them months ago that it was going to be the same day as his wedding! If you are interested, he is looking for someone to take his place...

    It's at Leeds Registry Office, at 4pm. Her name is Sharon -- she's 5'4", about 8 stone, quite pretty, has her own income and is a really good cook!

    Afternoon All!
    That’s fairly elderly, Mr E; bit sexist, too, the bit about cooking!
    It came from a female friend.
    You're saying that because she's female, she can't be sexist? That's a bit sexist, innit? :wink:
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,567

    Carnyx said:

    completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The only separatists who are principled enough to keep clear of English legislation are Sinn Fein.

    Scots MPs attacked over fees vote (27 January, 2004)

    A political row has broken out over the role of Scottish Labour MPs whose votes proved crucial as the government won the vote on university top-up fees... the plans will not apply north of the border... The Tories' sole Scottish MP, Peter Duncan, abstained on Tuesday's vote. Mr Duncan said: "This is a dark day for British democracy, and the actions of Scottish MPs are reprehensible...

    Scottish National Party MP Alex Salmond argued that Mr Duncan had "sat on his hands" and done nothing while Scottish interests were "put to the sword" by Scottish Labour MPs... "The needs of Scottish higher education required top-up fees to be voted down and Scottish Labour and Tory have sold Scotland out. For that, they will now face the wrath of the Scottish electorate."


    See also Sunday Trading, fox hunting, and anything which might have Barnett consequentials.
    I said "truly English", so that's the Barnett fort you, ditto Sunday Trading (because English firms operated cross border IIRC), aNd who cares about killing foxes at great cost?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232
    Selebian said:

    This may be of interest to someone:

    A friend has 2 tickets in a corporate box for the England v Italy game on Sunday. He paid £3000 each, but he didn't realise when he bought them months ago that it was going to be the same day as his wedding! If you are interested, he is looking for someone to take his place...

    It's at Leeds Registry Office, at 4pm. Her name is Sharon -- she's 5'4", about 8 stone, quite pretty, has her own income and is a really good cook!

    Afternoon All!
    That’s fairly elderly, Mr E; bit sexist, too, the bit about cooking!
    It came from a female friend.
    You're saying that because she's female, she can't be sexist? That's a bit sexist, innit? :wink:
    God no, as someone who is the not quite gay BFF of a lot of females, as well as the only guy on a girls night out and hen dos, I know how sexist women can be.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The only separatists who are principled enough to keep clear of English legislation are Sinn Fein.

    Scots MPs attacked over fees vote (27 January, 2004)

    A political row has broken out over the role of Scottish Labour MPs whose votes proved crucial as the government won the vote on university top-up fees... the plans will not apply north of the border... The Tories' sole Scottish MP, Peter Duncan, abstained on Tuesday's vote. Mr Duncan said: "This is a dark day for British democracy, and the actions of Scottish MPs are reprehensible...

    Scottish National Party MP Alex Salmond argued that Mr Duncan had "sat on his hands" and done nothing while Scottish interests were "put to the sword" by Scottish Labour MPs... "The needs of Scottish higher education required top-up fees to be voted down and Scottish Labour and Tory have sold Scotland out. For that, they will now face the wrath of the Scottish electorate."


    See also Sunday Trading, fox hunting, and anything which might have Barnett consequentials.
    I said "truly English", so that's the Barnett fort you, ditto Sunday Trading (because English firms operated cross border IIRC), aNd who cares about killing foxes at great cost?
    Prediction: any future Labour minority reliant on SNP votes will insert at least one line relevant to Scotland into every piece of legislation.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    In that time period there's been two General Elections, both of which returned Tory PMs (albeit by the skin of her teeth for May) and the most recent one was an eighty seat majority.

    I think if the Tories can keep winning General Elections they don't badly need anything from a by election. By elections if won by a governing party are realistically a bonus.

    It's only insanely high expectations that lead people to expect governing party gains now.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,567

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The only separatists who are principled enough to keep clear of English legislation are Sinn Fein.

    Scots MPs attacked over fees vote (27 January, 2004)

    A political row has broken out over the role of Scottish Labour MPs whose votes proved crucial as the government won the vote on university top-up fees... the plans will not apply north of the border... The Tories' sole Scottish MP, Peter Duncan, abstained on Tuesday's vote. Mr Duncan said: "This is a dark day for British democracy, and the actions of Scottish MPs are reprehensible...

    Scottish National Party MP Alex Salmond argued that Mr Duncan had "sat on his hands" and done nothing while Scottish interests were "put to the sword" by Scottish Labour MPs... "The needs of Scottish higher education required top-up fees to be voted down and Scottish Labour and Tory have sold Scotland out. For that, they will now face the wrath of the Scottish electorate."


    See also Sunday Trading, fox hunting, and anything which might have Barnett consequentials.
    I said "truly English", so that's the Barnett fort you, ditto Sunday Trading (because English firms operated cross border IIRC), aNd who cares about killing foxes at great cost?
    Prediction: any future Labour minority reliant on SNP votes will insert at least one line relevant to Scotland into every piece of legislation.
    In which case, I ask again, why are the Tories abolishing EVEL?

    And the SNP don't have to vote on all the other lines anyway.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Yup, he went down the plughole of George Soros as the powerful Jew trying to stop Brexit.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/07/tories-investigate-three-candidates-over-alleged-antisemitism

    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/two-conservative-mps-receive-training-on-antisemitism-1.510437
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810
    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    In the replies:

    "The perfect cover under which to get rid of English Votes for English Laws"
    It makes a change from more Union Flags than an Orange march, I must say.

    But why scrub EVEL? And why is HYUFD so exercised about hacing an English Parliament all of a sudden?
    I really don't know what the Government is playing at when it comes to EVEL. It would be fascinating to hear a convincing explanation.

    As for Unionists, they're at sixes and sevens over how to put right the mess that New Labour created. If you're not going either to reverse devolution outright or accept that dissolution is inevitable, then federalism is the other stable endpoint - in theory. Some embrace it, others think that an English Parliament would give rise to an English National Party in about five minutes flat and it would pull the whole house down.

    Once is moved once again to conclude that Tam Dalyell was right. Devolution = death to the UK. It's just a matter of time.
    The best I can do is to assume that it has been scrubbed so that the likes of HYUFD can make up stories about being under the SNP jackboot in the next General Election, as indeed he has helpfully just done - completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The development of an English Pmt is not in itself illogical but the Tories have been hostile to any interference with what suited Charles I et al that their apparent enthusiasm is on a par with the DUP legalising gay dinosaur birthday cakes with "Lá Breithe Shona dhuit!" iced on them. So a healthyt dose of scepticism is called for.
    Carnyx , if you piled up the manure spouted on here about Scotland it would be higher than Mt Everest. The amount of supposed Scotch experts pontificating merde on here is unbelievable. HYFUD is not even the worst, he at least has some conviction.

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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,567
    edited July 2021

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232
    edited July 2021
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    In the replies:

    "The perfect cover under which to get rid of English Votes for English Laws"
    It makes a change from more Union Flags than an Orange march, I must say.

    But why scrub EVEL? And why is HYUFD so exercised about hacing an English Parliament all of a sudden?
    I really don't know what the Government is playing at when it comes to EVEL. It would be fascinating to hear a convincing explanation.

    As for Unionists, they're at sixes and sevens over how to put right the mess that New Labour created. If you're not going either to reverse devolution outright or accept that dissolution is inevitable, then federalism is the other stable endpoint - in theory. Some embrace it, others think that an English Parliament would give rise to an English National Party in about five minutes flat and it would pull the whole house down.

    Once is moved once again to conclude that Tam Dalyell was right. Devolution = death to the UK. It's just a matter of time.
    The best I can do is to assume that it has been scrubbed so that the likes of HYUFD can make up stories about being under the SNP jackboot in the next General Election, as indeed he has helpfully just done - completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The development of an English Pmt is not in itself illogical but the Tories have been hostile to any interference with what suited Charles I et al that their apparent enthusiasm is on a par with the DUP legalising gay dinosaur birthday cakes with "Lá Breithe Shona dhuit!" iced on them. So a healthyt dose of scepticism is called for.
    Carnyx , if you piled up the manure spouted on here about Scotland it would be higher than Mt Everest. The amount of supposed Scotch experts pontificating merde on here is unbelievable. HYFUD is not even the worst, he at least has some conviction.

    My favourite Scotch expert was you when you predicted over a dozen seats for Alba and was abusive to anyone who said otherwise.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,565
    edited July 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Off topic.

    A friend of mine, ages ago, managed to secure a ticket for the final at Wembley on Sunday. £300, including accommodation. However, the idiot has only just realised that this clashes with his wedding!

    So, if anybody is interested in taking his place, could they let him know? It's at 4pm, Sunday, Burnley Registry Office. The bride's name is Brenda.

    Edit - oh god, TSE beat me to it!

    Yours is better though - :smile:
    If we are doing jokes like that then:

    "Anyone interested in a free ride in a helicopter for 4 people? I am looking for 2 more people to join us. We leave early next Saturday morning from Derry Airport and will fly to Galway Bay where we will have breakfast and then onto a yacht for lunch. We then do a flight along the coast to see the cliffs of Moher and then fly back to Derry.

    If interested please let me know. Preferably someone with a helicopter and yacht, otherwise we can't go"
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810
    kinabalu said:

    Off topic.

    A friend of mine, ages ago, managed to secure a ticket for the final at Wembley on Sunday. £300, including accommodation. However, the idiot has only just realised that this clashes with his wedding!

    So, if anybody is interested in taking his place, could they let him know? It's at 4pm, Sunday, Burnley Registry Office. The bride's name is Brenda.

    Edit - oh god, TSE beat me to it!

    Yours is better though - :smile:
    Old ones are the best ones
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    There's a lot to be said for leaving FPT stuff on the PT.

    Why do you want to leave all that stuff on me? 😕
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    In the replies:

    "The perfect cover under which to get rid of English Votes for English Laws"
    It makes a change from more Union Flags than an Orange march, I must say.

    But why scrub EVEL? And why is HYUFD so exercised about hacing an English Parliament all of a sudden?
    I really don't know what the Government is playing at when it comes to EVEL. It would be fascinating to hear a convincing explanation.

    As for Unionists, they're at sixes and sevens over how to put right the mess that New Labour created. If you're not going either to reverse devolution outright or accept that dissolution is inevitable, then federalism is the other stable endpoint - in theory. Some embrace it, others think that an English Parliament would give rise to an English National Party in about five minutes flat and it would pull the whole house down.

    Once is moved once again to conclude that Tam Dalyell was right. Devolution = death to the UK. It's just a matter of time.
    The best I can do is to assume that it has been scrubbed so that the likes of HYUFD can make up stories about being under the SNP jackboot in the next General Election, as indeed he has helpfully just done - completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The development of an English Pmt is not in itself illogical but the Tories have been hostile to any interference with what suited Charles I et al that their apparent enthusiasm is on a par with the DUP legalising gay dinosaur birthday cakes with "Lá Breithe Shona dhuit!" iced on them. So a healthyt dose of scepticism is called for.
    Carnyx , if you piled up the manure spouted on here about Scotland it would be higher than Mt Everest. The amount of supposed Scotch experts pontificating merde on here is unbelievable. HYFUD is not even the worst, he at least has some conviction.

    My favourite Scotch expert was you when you predicted over a dozen seats for Alba and was abusive to anyone who said otherwise.
    There were definitely at least a dozen arses in Alba.

    Oh sorry, not that sort of seat?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,567
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    In the replies:

    "The perfect cover under which to get rid of English Votes for English Laws"
    It makes a change from more Union Flags than an Orange march, I must say.

    But why scrub EVEL? And why is HYUFD so exercised about hacing an English Parliament all of a sudden?
    I really don't know what the Government is playing at when it comes to EVEL. It would be fascinating to hear a convincing explanation.

    As for Unionists, they're at sixes and sevens over how to put right the mess that New Labour created. If you're not going either to reverse devolution outright or accept that dissolution is inevitable, then federalism is the other stable endpoint - in theory. Some embrace it, others think that an English Parliament would give rise to an English National Party in about five minutes flat and it would pull the whole house down.

    Once is moved once again to conclude that Tam Dalyell was right. Devolution = death to the UK. It's just a matter of time.
    The best I can do is to assume that it has been scrubbed so that the likes of HYUFD can make up stories about being under the SNP jackboot in the next General Election, as indeed he has helpfully just done - completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The development of an English Pmt is not in itself illogical but the Tories have been hostile to any interference with what suited Charles I et al that their apparent enthusiasm is on a par with the DUP legalising gay dinosaur birthday cakes with "Lá Breithe Shona dhuit!" iced on them. So a healthyt dose of scepticism is called for.
    Carnyx , if you piled up the manure spouted on here about Scotland it would be higher than Mt Everest. The amount of supposed Scotch experts pontificating merde on here is unbelievable. HYFUD is not even the worst, he at least has some conviction.

    Happy memories oif standing knee deep in the stuff shovelling it for my father, who seemed to put about a cubic yard of the stuff on every square yard of his large garden and even bigger allotment. Which reminds me, the sun is over the yardarm, so I ought to go and have a drink to him. Have a good weekend!
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The only separatists who are principled enough to keep clear of English legislation are Sinn Fein.

    Scots MPs attacked over fees vote (27 January, 2004)

    A political row has broken out over the role of Scottish Labour MPs whose votes proved crucial as the government won the vote on university top-up fees... the plans will not apply north of the border... The Tories' sole Scottish MP, Peter Duncan, abstained on Tuesday's vote. Mr Duncan said: "This is a dark day for British democracy, and the actions of Scottish MPs are reprehensible...

    Scottish National Party MP Alex Salmond argued that Mr Duncan had "sat on his hands" and done nothing while Scottish interests were "put to the sword" by Scottish Labour MPs... "The needs of Scottish higher education required top-up fees to be voted down and Scottish Labour and Tory have sold Scotland out. For that, they will now face the wrath of the Scottish electorate."


    See also Sunday Trading, fox hunting, and anything which might have Barnett consequentials.
    I said "truly English", so that's the Barnett fort you, ditto Sunday Trading (because English firms operated cross border IIRC), aNd who cares about killing foxes at great cost?
    Prediction: any future Labour minority reliant on SNP votes will insert at least one line relevant to Scotland into every piece of legislation.
    If I can tempt you away from your Scotland gripes for a second -

    Shapovalov looks like he has the game to worry Novak but not quite the temperament. Keeps blowing the big points.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,929

    I think the most notable thing about this is that, as discussed on here previously, the Conservatives have been a lot more proactive, or a lot more successful, at moving on MPs who are at risk of triggering by-elections. We can imagine that if there had been as many by-elections in Conservative-held seats as Labour-held seats in the last few years then, sure, the Tories might have held one of them, but they could also have lost a fair few, and we see how that can have an effect on a leader's prospects with the importance of the recent by-elections to Starmer.

    Indeed, since 2010, there have been 26 by-elections in Labour-held seats and only 9 by-elections in Conservative-held seats - despite their being more Conservative MPs than Labour MPs for all of that period. In the 9 by-elections the Tory record is 3 holds, 3 losses to Lib Dems, 2 losses to UKIP and 1 loss to Labour.

    Imagine scaling up that by-election record in defences to the same rate of by-elections as in Labour-held seats, and it's easy to see how important this strategy of avoiding by-elections has been to avoiding a narrative of weakness and defeat from being built around the Conservatives.

    I think it is also, partially, the cull of 1997. The Tories had very few MP's before 2005. Labour's tend, therefore to be older.
    Wasn't Cheryl Gillan the first Tory MP to die in post for a long time?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072
    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    Off topic.

    A friend of mine, ages ago, managed to secure a ticket for the final at Wembley on Sunday. £300, including accommodation. However, the idiot has only just realised that this clashes with his wedding!

    So, if anybody is interested in taking his place, could they let him know? It's at 4pm, Sunday, Burnley Registry Office. The bride's name is Brenda.

    Edit - oh god, TSE beat me to it!

    Yours is better though - :smile:
    Old ones are the best ones
    Said the Bishop to the Actress ... :smile:
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The only separatists who are principled enough to keep clear of English legislation are Sinn Fein.

    Scots MPs attacked over fees vote (27 January, 2004)

    A political row has broken out over the role of Scottish Labour MPs whose votes proved crucial as the government won the vote on university top-up fees... the plans will not apply north of the border... The Tories' sole Scottish MP, Peter Duncan, abstained on Tuesday's vote. Mr Duncan said: "This is a dark day for British democracy, and the actions of Scottish MPs are reprehensible...

    Scottish National Party MP Alex Salmond argued that Mr Duncan had "sat on his hands" and done nothing while Scottish interests were "put to the sword" by Scottish Labour MPs... "The needs of Scottish higher education required top-up fees to be voted down and Scottish Labour and Tory have sold Scotland out. For that, they will now face the wrath of the Scottish electorate."


    See also Sunday Trading, fox hunting, and anything which might have Barnett consequentials.
    I said "truly English", so that's the Barnett fort you, ditto Sunday Trading (because English firms operated cross border IIRC), aNd who cares about killing foxes at great cost?
    Prediction: any future Labour minority reliant on SNP votes will insert at least one line relevant to Scotland into every piece of legislation.
    In which case, I ask again, why are the Tories abolishing EVEL?

    And the SNP don't have to vote on all the other lines anyway.
    Your theory on the previous thread is about as good as any, I suppose. Though FWIW, EVEL is just a set of procedures that a majority in the House can easily modify at will. Just as easily achieved by a non-Tory majority after the next election as a Tory one now.

    We're talking about politicians here. Their principles can usually be bought. If the price of a second referendum and a large sack of cash is voting through Labour's bills then I'm sure they'll do it.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094
    edited July 2021
    dixiedean said:

    I think the most notable thing about this is that, as discussed on here previously, the Conservatives have been a lot more proactive, or a lot more successful, at moving on MPs who are at risk of triggering by-elections. We can imagine that if there had been as many by-elections in Conservative-held seats as Labour-held seats in the last few years then, sure, the Tories might have held one of them, but they could also have lost a fair few, and we see how that can have an effect on a leader's prospects with the importance of the recent by-elections to Starmer.

    Indeed, since 2010, there have been 26 by-elections in Labour-held seats and only 9 by-elections in Conservative-held seats - despite their being more Conservative MPs than Labour MPs for all of that period. In the 9 by-elections the Tory record is 3 holds, 3 losses to Lib Dems, 2 losses to UKIP and 1 loss to Labour.

    Imagine scaling up that by-election record in defences to the same rate of by-elections as in Labour-held seats, and it's easy to see how important this strategy of avoiding by-elections has been to avoiding a narrative of weakness and defeat from being built around the Conservatives.

    I think it is also, partially, the cull of 1997. The Tories had very few MP's before 2005. Labour's tend, therefore to be older.
    Wasn't Cheryl Gillan the first Tory MP to die in post for a long time?
    The first since Eric Forth in 2006, and the fifth in total since 1997.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072
    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Off topic.

    A friend of mine, ages ago, managed to secure a ticket for the final at Wembley on Sunday. £300, including accommodation. However, the idiot has only just realised that this clashes with his wedding!

    So, if anybody is interested in taking his place, could they let him know? It's at 4pm, Sunday, Burnley Registry Office. The bride's name is Brenda.

    Edit - oh god, TSE beat me to it!

    Yours is better though - :smile:
    If we are doing jokes like then then:

    "Anyone interested in a free ride in a helicopter for 4 people? I am looking for 2 more people to join us. We leave early next Saturday morning from Derry Airport and will fly to Galway Bay where we will have breakfast and then onto a yacht for lunch. We then do a flight along the coast to see the cliffs of Moher and then fly back to Derry.

    If interested please let me know. Preferably someone with a helicopter and yacht, otherwise we can't go"
    Another good one! They might be old but they're all new to me.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Personally I find this pretty shocking. I obviously understand the general approach by Australian Govts to tighten up their borders etc. But it’s also clear that as a result they’ve simply abandoned many of their own citizens and made no pro-active attempts to help them return home at all.

    https://www.news.com.au/travel/people-just-dont-care-australians-stranded-overseas-come-to-terms-with-their-own-country-abandoning-them/news-story/a322777fbccf1ac9eb32f88a04844aa4
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,210
    ydoethur said:

    This may be of interest to someone:

    A friend has 2 tickets in a corporate box for the England v Italy game on Sunday. He paid £3000 each, but he didn't realise when he bought them months ago that it was going to be the same day as his wedding! If you are interested, he is looking for someone to take his place...

    It's at Leeds Registry Office, at 4pm. Her name is Sharon -- she's 5'4", about 8 stone, quite pretty, has her own income and is a really good cook!

    Off topic.

    A friend of mine, ages ago, managed to secure a ticket for the final at Wembley on Sunday. £300, including accommodation. However, the idiot has only just realised that this clashes with his wedding!

    So, if anybody is interested in taking his place, could they let him know? It's at 4pm, Sunday, Burnley Registry Office. The bride's name is Brenda.

    Aaaaand...they’re off.
    I rather fear that they were off long ago already.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The only separatists who are principled enough to keep clear of English legislation are Sinn Fein.

    Scots MPs attacked over fees vote (27 January, 2004)

    A political row has broken out over the role of Scottish Labour MPs whose votes proved crucial as the government won the vote on university top-up fees... the plans will not apply north of the border... The Tories' sole Scottish MP, Peter Duncan, abstained on Tuesday's vote. Mr Duncan said: "This is a dark day for British democracy, and the actions of Scottish MPs are reprehensible...

    Scottish National Party MP Alex Salmond argued that Mr Duncan had "sat on his hands" and done nothing while Scottish interests were "put to the sword" by Scottish Labour MPs... "The needs of Scottish higher education required top-up fees to be voted down and Scottish Labour and Tory have sold Scotland out. For that, they will now face the wrath of the Scottish electorate."


    See also Sunday Trading, fox hunting, and anything which might have Barnett consequentials.
    I said "truly English", so that's the Barnett fort you, ditto Sunday Trading (because English firms operated cross border IIRC), aNd who cares about killing foxes at great cost?
    Prediction: any future Labour minority reliant on SNP votes will insert at least one line relevant to Scotland into every piece of legislation.
    If I can tempt you away from your Scotland gripes for a second -

    Shapovalov looks like he has the game to worry Novak but not quite the temperament. Keeps blowing the big points.
    I know, he's given Novak a good game but he's squandered so many opportunities. The performance merits something better than being beaten in straight sets but you can see that coming. It's quite sad. And FWIW I don't see Berrettini doing much better on Sunday.

    The women's final looks much more promising for a close contest, but I've already got somewhere else to go tomorrow so shall miss it, alas.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,317

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Gloria's decision to stand down was I suspect partly because she expected a real mudfest if she stood and he came out with whatever he could think of about things she'd said at odd moments over the years - wouldn't need to be anything dreadful, but the most casual remark can be twisted. And I expect the Tories picked him with just that advantage in mind.

    The politics of the seat (which was next to Broxtowe and shared two wards with the borough) were always horrible - I knew Labour, LibDem and Tory councillors, and early in any conversation they would all rant about their colleagues and their opponents as if they really hated each other. Geoff Hoon was the unlikely previous MP - a smooth posh intellectual in a seat that in part makes Hartlepool look like Chelsea.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,152

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Maybe the Tories should reaffiliate him. He was Labour under Corbyn, then switched sides seeing that the seat was going Tory. Expel him, call him a "maverick Labour politician" and retain the seat in 2023 as its the loony "Labour" MP people will vote to get shut of.

    Does show, when you are bagging a lot of candidates quickly for a long list of suddenly in play seats, and you judge fealty over all other considerations, you can end up with absolute spanners. Same in any party - look at Claudia Webbe FFS.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,152
    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,834
    dixiedean said:

    I think the most notable thing about this is that, as discussed on here previously, the Conservatives have been a lot more proactive, or a lot more successful, at moving on MPs who are at risk of triggering by-elections. We can imagine that if there had been as many by-elections in Conservative-held seats as Labour-held seats in the last few years then, sure, the Tories might have held one of them, but they could also have lost a fair few, and we see how that can have an effect on a leader's prospects with the importance of the recent by-elections to Starmer.

    Indeed, since 2010, there have been 26 by-elections in Labour-held seats and only 9 by-elections in Conservative-held seats - despite their being more Conservative MPs than Labour MPs for all of that period. In the 9 by-elections the Tory record is 3 holds, 3 losses to Lib Dems, 2 losses to UKIP and 1 loss to Labour.

    Imagine scaling up that by-election record in defences to the same rate of by-elections as in Labour-held seats, and it's easy to see how important this strategy of avoiding by-elections has been to avoiding a narrative of weakness and defeat from being built around the Conservatives.

    I think it is also, partially, the cull of 1997. The Tories had very few MP's before 2005. Labour's tend, therefore to be older.
    Wasn't Cheryl Gillan the first Tory MP to die in post for a long time?
    Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst) was I think the last Conservative MP death, in 2006.

    It’s a combination of MPs getting younger, retiring rather than staying in office into old age, and the huge swings seen in 1997, 2010, 2015 in Scotland, and to some extent 2019, that cleared out large numbers of MPs.
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    'but the Tories badly need a hold in a heartlands seat.'

    Must have been suprressing a chuckle typing that one. If only the Tories were as well placed as the Lib Dems, eh?
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Of course, not different at all for a party in power since 2010, oh no .....
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
    Almost as acceptable as racism against "chavvy" WWC which you see from many on the left.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232
    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    I think the most notable thing about this is that, as discussed on here previously, the Conservatives have been a lot more proactive, or a lot more successful, at moving on MPs who are at risk of triggering by-elections. We can imagine that if there had been as many by-elections in Conservative-held seats as Labour-held seats in the last few years then, sure, the Tories might have held one of them, but they could also have lost a fair few, and we see how that can have an effect on a leader's prospects with the importance of the recent by-elections to Starmer.

    Indeed, since 2010, there have been 26 by-elections in Labour-held seats and only 9 by-elections in Conservative-held seats - despite their being more Conservative MPs than Labour MPs for all of that period. In the 9 by-elections the Tory record is 3 holds, 3 losses to Lib Dems, 2 losses to UKIP and 1 loss to Labour.

    Imagine scaling up that by-election record in defences to the same rate of by-elections as in Labour-held seats, and it's easy to see how important this strategy of avoiding by-elections has been to avoiding a narrative of weakness and defeat from being built around the Conservatives.

    I think it is also, partially, the cull of 1997. The Tories had very few MP's before 2005. Labour's tend, therefore to be older.
    Wasn't Cheryl Gillan the first Tory MP to die in post for a long time?
    Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst) was I think the last Conservative MP death, in 2006.

    It’s a combination of MPs getting younger, retiring rather than staying in office into old age, and the huge swings seen in 1997, 2010, 2015 in Scotland, and to some extent 2019, that cleared out large numbers of MPs.
    When Dave became leader he made a conscious effort to get older MPs to stand down at the 2010 and 2015 GEs.

    For the large part it worked.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,219
    MrEd said:

    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
    Almost as acceptable as racism against "chavvy" WWC which you see from many on the left.
    and red heads, and short people.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232
    MrEd said:

    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
    Almost as acceptable as racism against "chavvy" WWC which you see from many on the left.
    That's not limited to the left.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    In the replies:

    "The perfect cover under which to get rid of English Votes for English Laws"
    It makes a change from more Union Flags than an Orange march, I must say.

    But why scrub EVEL? And why is HYUFD so exercised about hacing an English Parliament all of a sudden?
    I really don't know what the Government is playing at when it comes to EVEL. It would be fascinating to hear a convincing explanation.

    As for Unionists, they're at sixes and sevens over how to put right the mess that New Labour created. If you're not going either to reverse devolution outright or accept that dissolution is inevitable, then federalism is the other stable endpoint - in theory. Some embrace it, others think that an English Parliament would give rise to an English National Party in about five minutes flat and it would pull the whole house down.

    Once is moved once again to conclude that Tam Dalyell was right. Devolution = death to the UK. It's just a matter of time.
    The best I can do is to assume that it has been scrubbed so that the likes of HYUFD can make up stories about being under the SNP jackboot in the next General Election, as indeed he has helpfully just done - completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The development of an English Pmt is not in itself illogical but the Tories have been hostile to any interference with what suited Charles I et al that their apparent enthusiasm is on a par with the DUP legalising gay dinosaur birthday cakes with "Lá Breithe Shona dhuit!" iced on them. So a healthyt dose of scepticism is called for.
    Carnyx , if you piled up the manure spouted on here about Scotland it would be higher than Mt Everest. The amount of supposed Scotch experts pontificating merde on here is unbelievable. HYFUD is not even the worst, he at least has some conviction.

    My favourite Scotch expert was you when you predicted over a dozen seats for Alba and was abusive to anyone who said otherwise.
    Your arse I am never abusive to anyone, fact that you are jessie boys who cry if you are not being praised for your mince does not make it abusive. Stick to your fantasies.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited July 2021

    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
    There's a reason for that though, sadly, and it isn't racism.

    Travelling communities do have a tendency to being crime and disorder with them and they're not a race. It's a cultural not a racial issue.

    Not all do, but too many do. And if you've had crime and disorder linked to previous travelling sites appearing then it's only natural to be concerned when new ones do.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,219

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    I think the most notable thing about this is that, as discussed on here previously, the Conservatives have been a lot more proactive, or a lot more successful, at moving on MPs who are at risk of triggering by-elections. We can imagine that if there had been as many by-elections in Conservative-held seats as Labour-held seats in the last few years then, sure, the Tories might have held one of them, but they could also have lost a fair few, and we see how that can have an effect on a leader's prospects with the importance of the recent by-elections to Starmer.

    Indeed, since 2010, there have been 26 by-elections in Labour-held seats and only 9 by-elections in Conservative-held seats - despite their being more Conservative MPs than Labour MPs for all of that period. In the 9 by-elections the Tory record is 3 holds, 3 losses to Lib Dems, 2 losses to UKIP and 1 loss to Labour.

    Imagine scaling up that by-election record in defences to the same rate of by-elections as in Labour-held seats, and it's easy to see how important this strategy of avoiding by-elections has been to avoiding a narrative of weakness and defeat from being built around the Conservatives.

    I think it is also, partially, the cull of 1997. The Tories had very few MP's before 2005. Labour's tend, therefore to be older.
    Wasn't Cheryl Gillan the first Tory MP to die in post for a long time?
    Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst) was I think the last Conservative MP death, in 2006.

    It’s a combination of MPs getting younger, retiring rather than staying in office into old age, and the huge swings seen in 1997, 2010, 2015 in Scotland, and to some extent 2019, that cleared out large numbers of MPs.
    When Dave became leader he made a conscious effort to get older MPs to stand down at the 2010 and 2015 GEs.

    For the large part it worked.
    Is it unfair to suggest David Cameron used the expenses scandal to get rid of a lot of bed blockers or just MPs who weren't fully onboard with hugging hoodies?
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,152
    MrEd said:

    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
    Almost as acceptable as racism against "chavvy" WWC which you see from many on the left.
    Surely the worse "racism" against the WWC is from the snooty end of the Tory party who work very hard to keep them poor and ill-educated.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    In the replies:

    "The perfect cover under which to get rid of English Votes for English Laws"
    It makes a change from more Union Flags than an Orange march, I must say.

    But why scrub EVEL? And why is HYUFD so exercised about hacing an English Parliament all of a sudden?
    I really don't know what the Government is playing at when it comes to EVEL. It would be fascinating to hear a convincing explanation.

    As for Unionists, they're at sixes and sevens over how to put right the mess that New Labour created. If you're not going either to reverse devolution outright or accept that dissolution is inevitable, then federalism is the other stable endpoint - in theory. Some embrace it, others think that an English Parliament would give rise to an English National Party in about five minutes flat and it would pull the whole house down.

    Once is moved once again to conclude that Tam Dalyell was right. Devolution = death to the UK. It's just a matter of time.
    The best I can do is to assume that it has been scrubbed so that the likes of HYUFD can make up stories about being under the SNP jackboot in the next General Election, as indeed he has helpfully just done - completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The development of an English Pmt is not in itself illogical but the Tories have been hostile to any interference with what suited Charles I et al that their apparent enthusiasm is on a par with the DUP legalising gay dinosaur birthday cakes with "Lá Breithe Shona dhuit!" iced on them. So a healthyt dose of scepticism is called for.
    Carnyx , if you piled up the manure spouted on here about Scotland it would be higher than Mt Everest. The amount of supposed Scotch experts pontificating merde on here is unbelievable. HYFUD is not even the worst, he at least has some conviction.

    My favourite Scotch expert was you when you predicted over a dozen seats for Alba and was abusive to anyone who said otherwise.
    Your arse I am never abusive to anyone, fact that you are jessie boys who cry if you are not being praised for your mince does not make it abusive. Stick to your fantasies.
    No, 12 Alba MSPs was a fantasy, as anyone with half a brain cell realised when they saw Salmond's approval ratings.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    In the replies:

    "The perfect cover under which to get rid of English Votes for English Laws"
    It makes a change from more Union Flags than an Orange march, I must say.

    But why scrub EVEL? And why is HYUFD so exercised about hacing an English Parliament all of a sudden?
    I really don't know what the Government is playing at when it comes to EVEL. It would be fascinating to hear a convincing explanation.

    As for Unionists, they're at sixes and sevens over how to put right the mess that New Labour created. If you're not going either to reverse devolution outright or accept that dissolution is inevitable, then federalism is the other stable endpoint - in theory. Some embrace it, others think that an English Parliament would give rise to an English National Party in about five minutes flat and it would pull the whole house down.

    Once is moved once again to conclude that Tam Dalyell was right. Devolution = death to the UK. It's just a matter of time.
    The best I can do is to assume that it has been scrubbed so that the likes of HYUFD can make up stories about being under the SNP jackboot in the next General Election, as indeed he has helpfully just done - completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The development of an English Pmt is not in itself illogical but the Tories have been hostile to any interference with what suited Charles I et al that their apparent enthusiasm is on a par with the DUP legalising gay dinosaur birthday cakes with "Lá Breithe Shona dhuit!" iced on them. So a healthyt dose of scepticism is called for.
    Carnyx , if you piled up the manure spouted on here about Scotland it would be higher than Mt Everest. The amount of supposed Scotch experts pontificating merde on here is unbelievable. HYFUD is not even the worst, he at least has some conviction.

    Happy memories oif standing knee deep in the stuff shovelling it for my father, who seemed to put about a cubic yard of the stuff on every square yard of his large garden and even bigger allotment. Which reminds me, the sun is over the yardarm, so I ought to go and have a drink to him. Have a good weekend!
    Same to you Carnyx.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,684
    edited July 2021
    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2021
    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Boris was personally burying bodies in the gardens of Chequers for some....ok I exaggerate, but many genuinely pushed this conspiracy that the government were hiding deaths from COVID, when actually they were doing the opposite, and over counting.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    I think the most notable thing about this is that, as discussed on here previously, the Conservatives have been a lot more proactive, or a lot more successful, at moving on MPs who are at risk of triggering by-elections. We can imagine that if there had been as many by-elections in Conservative-held seats as Labour-held seats in the last few years then, sure, the Tories might have held one of them, but they could also have lost a fair few, and we see how that can have an effect on a leader's prospects with the importance of the recent by-elections to Starmer.

    Indeed, since 2010, there have been 26 by-elections in Labour-held seats and only 9 by-elections in Conservative-held seats - despite their being more Conservative MPs than Labour MPs for all of that period. In the 9 by-elections the Tory record is 3 holds, 3 losses to Lib Dems, 2 losses to UKIP and 1 loss to Labour.

    Imagine scaling up that by-election record in defences to the same rate of by-elections as in Labour-held seats, and it's easy to see how important this strategy of avoiding by-elections has been to avoiding a narrative of weakness and defeat from being built around the Conservatives.

    I think it is also, partially, the cull of 1997. The Tories had very few MP's before 2005. Labour's tend, therefore to be older.
    Wasn't Cheryl Gillan the first Tory MP to die in post for a long time?
    Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst) was I think the last Conservative MP death, in 2006.

    It’s a combination of MPs getting younger, retiring rather than staying in office into old age, and the huge swings seen in 1997, 2010, 2015 in Scotland, and to some extent 2019, that cleared out large numbers of MPs.
    When Dave became leader he made a conscious effort to get older MPs to stand down at the 2010 and 2015 GEs.

    For the large part it worked.
    Is it unfair to suggest David Cameron used the expenses scandal to get rid of a lot of bed blockers or just MPs who weren't fully onboard with hugging hoodies?
    Yes it is unfair.

    He was gutted to lose people like Andrew Mackay.

    Ultimately Dave realised you cannot talk about implementing austerity whilst your own MPs are taking the piss with expenses.
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,880
    edited July 2021

    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
    Some sites are fine. Others seem to be the source of all fly tipping within a 10 mile radius (amongst other things).

    Sadly the reaction may be based on experience, even if it is stereotyping.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2021
    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    Big shout out to the Lions for going out to South Africa right now.
  • Options
    AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
    Some sites are fine. Others seem to be the source of all fly tipping within a 10 mile radius (amongst other things).
    I used to work in a shop growing up and there were seven (large) families from the local traveller site that would visit. Of those, members of six of the seven would be guaranteed to attempt shoplifting if they were not being directly watched by a retail assistant. One we found we could trust. It is very hard to not develop prejudicial views with those sort of ratios.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072

    MrEd said:

    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
    Almost as acceptable as racism against "chavvy" WWC which you see from many on the left.
    That's not limited to the left.
    It isn't. And when it comes to calling out that sort of prejudice, left icon Owen Jones - quite literally - wrote the book.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,488

    This may be of interest to someone:

    A friend has 2 tickets in a corporate box for the England v Italy game on Sunday. He paid £3000 each, but he didn't realise when he bought them months ago that it was going to be the same day as his wedding! If you are interested, he is looking for someone to take his place...

    It's at Leeds Registry Office, at 4pm. Her name is Sharon -- she's 5'4", about 8 stone, quite pretty, has her own income and is a really good cook!

    Afternoon All!
    That’s fairly elderly, Mr E; bit sexist, too, the bit about cooking!
    It came from a female friend.
    It is Pride month. 😇
  • Options
    AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    In the replies:

    "The perfect cover under which to get rid of English Votes for English Laws"
    It makes a change from more Union Flags than an Orange march, I must say.

    But why scrub EVEL? And why is HYUFD so exercised about hacing an English Parliament all of a sudden?
    I really don't know what the Government is playing at when it comes to EVEL. It would be fascinating to hear a convincing explanation.

    As for Unionists, they're at sixes and sevens over how to put right the mess that New Labour created. If you're not going either to reverse devolution outright or accept that dissolution is inevitable, then federalism is the other stable endpoint - in theory. Some embrace it, others think that an English Parliament would give rise to an English National Party in about five minutes flat and it would pull the whole house down.

    Once is moved once again to conclude that Tam Dalyell was right. Devolution = death to the UK. It's just a matter of time.
    The best I can do is to assume that it has been scrubbed so that the likes of HYUFD can make up stories about being under the SNP jackboot in the next General Election, as indeed he has helpfully just done - completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The development of an English Pmt is not in itself illogical but the Tories have been hostile to any interference with what suited Charles I et al that their apparent enthusiasm is on a par with the DUP legalising gay dinosaur birthday cakes with "Lá Breithe Shona dhuit!" iced on them. So a healthyt dose of scepticism is called for.
    Carnyx , if you piled up the manure spouted on here about Scotland it would be higher than Mt Everest. The amount of supposed Scotch experts pontificating merde on here is unbelievable. HYFUD is not even the worst, he at least has some conviction.

    My favourite Scotch expert was you when you predicted over a dozen seats for Alba and was abusive to anyone who said otherwise.
    Your arse I am never abusive to anyone, fact that you are jessie boys who cry if you are not being praised for your mince does not make it abusive. Stick to your fantasies.
    I think you are an excellent ambassador for the sort of mentality that would run an independent Scotland. All Scots voters should use your sort of example when voting in the next referendum.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    The behaviour of some of our European neighbours, not friends, regarding AZ has been almost as bad as some of the mad stuff Trump came out with about covid. The have blood on their hands.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    In the replies:

    "The perfect cover under which to get rid of English Votes for English Laws"
    It makes a change from more Union Flags than an Orange march, I must say.

    But why scrub EVEL? And why is HYUFD so exercised about hacing an English Parliament all of a sudden?
    I really don't know what the Government is playing at when it comes to EVEL. It would be fascinating to hear a convincing explanation.

    As for Unionists, they're at sixes and sevens over how to put right the mess that New Labour created. If you're not going either to reverse devolution outright or accept that dissolution is inevitable, then federalism is the other stable endpoint - in theory. Some embrace it, others think that an English Parliament would give rise to an English National Party in about five minutes flat and it would pull the whole house down.

    Once is moved once again to conclude that Tam Dalyell was right. Devolution = death to the UK. It's just a matter of time.
    The best I can do is to assume that it has been scrubbed so that the likes of HYUFD can make up stories about being under the SNP jackboot in the next General Election, as indeed he has helpfully just done - completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The development of an English Pmt is not in itself illogical but the Tories have been hostile to any interference with what suited Charles I et al that their apparent enthusiasm is on a par with the DUP legalising gay dinosaur birthday cakes with "Lá Breithe Shona dhuit!" iced on them. So a healthyt dose of scepticism is called for.
    Carnyx , if you piled up the manure spouted on here about Scotland it would be higher than Mt Everest. The amount of supposed Scotch experts pontificating merde on here is unbelievable. HYFUD is not even the worst, he at least has some conviction.

    My favourite Scotch expert was you when you predicted over a dozen seats for Alba and was abusive to anyone who said otherwise.
    Your arse I am never abusive to anyone, fact that you are jessie boys who cry if you are not being praised for your mince does not make it abusive. Stick to your fantasies.
    No, 12 Alba MSPs was a fantasy, as anyone with half a brain cell realised when they saw Salmond's approval ratings.
    I never for a minute thought they would get 12 MSP's, so mince.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Aslan said:

    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
    Some sites are fine. Others seem to be the source of all fly tipping within a 10 mile radius (amongst other things).
    I used to work in a shop growing up and there were seven (large) families from the local traveller site that would visit. Of those, members of six of the seven would be guaranteed to attempt shoplifting if they were not being directly watched by a retail assistant. One we found we could trust. It is very hard to not develop prejudicial views with those sort of ratios.
    It's a problem, and those who deny it is a problem don't help.

    Especially since it's a cultural issue not a racial one. You can't look at someone's skin colour and think that.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,488
    glw said:

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    The behaviour of some of our European neighbours, not friends, regarding AZ has been almost as bad as some of the mad stuff Trump came out with about covid. The have blood on their hands.
    Not just the EU, lots of other countries have not used AZN including the USA.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    glw said:

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    The behaviour of some of our European neighbours, not friends, regarding AZ has been almost as bad as some of the mad stuff Trump came out with about covid. The have blood on their hands.
    Not just the EU, lots of other countries have not used AZN including the USA.
    Yes but they weren't having politicians leak to the media bullshit efficacy numbers and leaders claiming it was quasi-effective. They had plentiful supplies of Moderna and Pfizer.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,488
    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,210

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Gloria's decision to stand down was I suspect partly because she expected a real mudfest if she stood and he came out with whatever he could think of about things she'd said at odd moments over the years - wouldn't need to be anything dreadful, but the most casual remark can be twisted. And I expect the Tories picked him with just that advantage in mind.

    The politics of the seat (which was next to Broxtowe and shared two wards with the borough) were always horrible - I knew Labour, LibDem and Tory councillors, and early in any conversation they would all rant about their colleagues and their opponents as if they really hated each other. Geoff Hoon was the unlikely previous MP - a smooth posh intellectual in a seat that in part makes Hartlepool look like Chelsea.
    Labour politics in Ashfield were toxic - largely thanks to the antics of your Corbynite friends - which was why Gloria stood down.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232
    edited July 2021
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    In the replies:

    "The perfect cover under which to get rid of English Votes for English Laws"
    It makes a change from more Union Flags than an Orange march, I must say.

    But why scrub EVEL? And why is HYUFD so exercised about hacing an English Parliament all of a sudden?
    I really don't know what the Government is playing at when it comes to EVEL. It would be fascinating to hear a convincing explanation.

    As for Unionists, they're at sixes and sevens over how to put right the mess that New Labour created. If you're not going either to reverse devolution outright or accept that dissolution is inevitable, then federalism is the other stable endpoint - in theory. Some embrace it, others think that an English Parliament would give rise to an English National Party in about five minutes flat and it would pull the whole house down.

    Once is moved once again to conclude that Tam Dalyell was right. Devolution = death to the UK. It's just a matter of time.
    The best I can do is to assume that it has been scrubbed so that the likes of HYUFD can make up stories about being under the SNP jackboot in the next General Election, as indeed he has helpfully just done - completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The development of an English Pmt is not in itself illogical but the Tories have been hostile to any interference with what suited Charles I et al that their apparent enthusiasm is on a par with the DUP legalising gay dinosaur birthday cakes with "Lá Breithe Shona dhuit!" iced on them. So a healthyt dose of scepticism is called for.
    Carnyx , if you piled up the manure spouted on here about Scotland it would be higher than Mt Everest. The amount of supposed Scotch experts pontificating merde on here is unbelievable. HYFUD is not even the worst, he at least has some conviction.

    My favourite Scotch expert was you when you predicted over a dozen seats for Alba and was abusive to anyone who said otherwise.
    Your arse I am never abusive to anyone, fact that you are jessie boys who cry if you are not being praised for your mince does not make it abusive. Stick to your fantasies.
    No, 12 Alba MSPs was a fantasy, as anyone with half a brain cell realised when they saw Salmond's approval ratings.
    I never for a minute thought they would get 12 MSP's, so mince.
    Well you kinda did, you said they would get 12-14% minimum on the list, which would have meant around a dozen seats for them.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,210
    Leonardo Bonucci believes that playing the Euro 2020 final against England at Wembley will give Italy extra motivation and has said they are not afraid of facing Gareth Southgate’s side there.

    The Juventus defender was part of the Italy team that lost 4-0 in the final of Euro 2012 against Spain and will pick up his 109th cap on Sunday. He refused to concede that England had an advantage for the final even though they will be on home turf and a limited number of Italy supporters, including president Sergio Mattarella, are expected to be in attendance.

    “We are looking forward to going to Wembley on Sunday, even though there will be a mostly English crowd,” Bonucci said. “Being there will be additional motivation for us – we want to achieve something historic and we will do everything we can to play a great match. We will play at their home but we are not afraid of that.”
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,925

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    I think the most notable thing about this is that, as discussed on here previously, the Conservatives have been a lot more proactive, or a lot more successful, at moving on MPs who are at risk of triggering by-elections. We can imagine that if there had been as many by-elections in Conservative-held seats as Labour-held seats in the last few years then, sure, the Tories might have held one of them, but they could also have lost a fair few, and we see how that can have an effect on a leader's prospects with the importance of the recent by-elections to Starmer.

    Indeed, since 2010, there have been 26 by-elections in Labour-held seats and only 9 by-elections in Conservative-held seats - despite their being more Conservative MPs than Labour MPs for all of that period. In the 9 by-elections the Tory record is 3 holds, 3 losses to Lib Dems, 2 losses to UKIP and 1 loss to Labour.

    Imagine scaling up that by-election record in defences to the same rate of by-elections as in Labour-held seats, and it's easy to see how important this strategy of avoiding by-elections has been to avoiding a narrative of weakness and defeat from being built around the Conservatives.

    I think it is also, partially, the cull of 1997. The Tories had very few MP's before 2005. Labour's tend, therefore to be older.
    Wasn't Cheryl Gillan the first Tory MP to die in post for a long time?
    Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst) was I think the last Conservative MP death, in 2006.

    It’s a combination of MPs getting younger, retiring rather than staying in office into old age, and the huge swings seen in 1997, 2010, 2015 in Scotland, and to some extent 2019, that cleared out large numbers of MPs.
    When Dave became leader he made a conscious effort to get older MPs to stand down at the 2010 and 2015 GEs.

    For the large part it worked.
    Cheryl Gillam would have retired in 2019 if her husband hadn't died - that was the reason she stayed as an MP
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    I think the most notable thing about this is that, as discussed on here previously, the Conservatives have been a lot more proactive, or a lot more successful, at moving on MPs who are at risk of triggering by-elections. We can imagine that if there had been as many by-elections in Conservative-held seats as Labour-held seats in the last few years then, sure, the Tories might have held one of them, but they could also have lost a fair few, and we see how that can have an effect on a leader's prospects with the importance of the recent by-elections to Starmer.

    Indeed, since 2010, there have been 26 by-elections in Labour-held seats and only 9 by-elections in Conservative-held seats - despite their being more Conservative MPs than Labour MPs for all of that period. In the 9 by-elections the Tory record is 3 holds, 3 losses to Lib Dems, 2 losses to UKIP and 1 loss to Labour.

    Imagine scaling up that by-election record in defences to the same rate of by-elections as in Labour-held seats, and it's easy to see how important this strategy of avoiding by-elections has been to avoiding a narrative of weakness and defeat from being built around the Conservatives.

    I think it is also, partially, the cull of 1997. The Tories had very few MP's before 2005. Labour's tend, therefore to be older.
    Wasn't Cheryl Gillan the first Tory MP to die in post for a long time?
    Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst) was I think the last Conservative MP death, in 2006.

    It’s a combination of MPs getting younger, retiring rather than staying in office into old age, and the huge swings seen in 1997, 2010, 2015 in Scotland, and to some extent 2019, that cleared out large numbers of MPs.
    When Dave became leader he made a conscious effort to get older MPs to stand down at the 2010 and 2015 GEs.

    For the large part it worked.
    Cheryl Gillam would have retired in 2019 if her husband hadn't died - that was the reason she stayed as an MP
    I reckon that's the reason why Ken Clarke didn't stand down in 2017, death of a spouse makes you stick with the familiar.

    Although being an MP for 50 years was also in sight for him.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    It’s not just us that have noticed this *thing*

    ‘When are we going to get a longread on the social media radicalisation of FBPE people? It's very sad to watch’

    ‘ > often educated professionals
    > 10k follows
    > 11k followers
    > Bio an alphabet soup of acronyms
    > Can't watch the football because they think they live in a Hitlerite regime

    They haven't quite got to paedo-deep-state conspiracy but the distinction with Qboomers isn't massive!’

    https://twitter.com/eggrollshogun/status/1413129834356563972?s=21

    Wasn't it you at the beginning of the tournament dissing the England team, and clutching at your pearls over taking the knee?
    Yup, a pound shop Laurence Fox.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,152

    Aslan said:

    Carnyx said:

    Worse than that. He's an actual racist, on travellers, and I suspect on other matters: refusing to watch England because of "the knee" is pathetic and hints that he has issues. The Tories would do well to get rid of him.
    I was genuinely shocked that the Tories let him be a candidate.

    He was a Labour party member, and also Gloria De Piero's office manager until quite recently.
    Didn't he also have a bit of an issue relating to antisemitism?
    Mr Ross D. MP also has been reported as having issues with Travellers (I don't know enoughj about the matter to comment myself one way or another):

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/douglas-ross-and-the-war-on-scotlands-travellers/
    Hatred of pikeys seems to be the acceptable racism. We had a horrible run in over travellers sites which the council legally had to look at using set criteria, and the local indies and town council were all "we don't want their sort here"
    Some sites are fine. Others seem to be the source of all fly tipping within a 10 mile radius (amongst other things).
    I used to work in a shop growing up and there were seven (large) families from the local traveller site that would visit. Of those, members of six of the seven would be guaranteed to attempt shoplifting if they were not being directly watched by a retail assistant. One we found we could trust. It is very hard to not develop prejudicial views with those sort of ratios.
    It's a problem, and those who deny it is a problem don't help.

    Especially since it's a cultural issue not a racial one. You can't look at someone's skin colour and think that.
    Meanwhile, from the pages of Viz... https://external-preview.redd.it/LIvTpL6qteIJklNiOhxiiTzM6PLGFmySBd_QymwvnKc.png?auto=webp&s=deb5c7222029085df7964df9c6ec25acf58c2630
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    glw said:

    Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57781637

    And growing evidence that the AZN issue is to do with user error.

    AZN is slower acting and not quite as good as Pfizer / Moderna (but from link I posted down below not that far off), but the likes of South Africa totally stopped using it because of the "fake news" from Europe.

    How many 1000s of extra deaths as quasi-effective Macron / Germany FT only 5% effective (or whatever horseshit number it was) caused?

    -------

    South Africa has administered at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine to around 6% of its population and the percentage of the fully vaccinated population is just over 2%.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/devastating-south-africa-buckles-under-covid-19-wave-driven-by-delta-variant-101625837321458.html

    The behaviour of some of our European neighbours, not friends, regarding AZ has been almost as bad as some of the mad stuff Trump came out with about covid. The have blood on their hands.
    Don’t disagree in general but I don’t think the EU had anything to do with South Africa ditching AZ. It came purely on the back of a preliminary report suggesting it didn’t work against the SA variant. By the time better studies came along they’d given it all away.

    NZ (as another example) also are very slow as a result to ditch the initial plans to use AZ in favour of Pfizer. Not as extreme reason as SA but that was also on the basis of a belief that it wasn’t quite as good as Pfizer, and they could “afford to wait” for the best.
  • Options
    ChelyabinskChelyabinsk Posts: 488
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    In the replies:

    "The perfect cover under which to get rid of English Votes for English Laws"
    It makes a change from more Union Flags than an Orange march, I must say.

    But why scrub EVEL? And why is HYUFD so exercised about hacing an English Parliament all of a sudden?
    I really don't know what the Government is playing at when it comes to EVEL. It would be fascinating to hear a convincing explanation.

    As for Unionists, they're at sixes and sevens over how to put right the mess that New Labour created. If you're not going either to reverse devolution outright or accept that dissolution is inevitable, then federalism is the other stable endpoint - in theory. Some embrace it, others think that an English Parliament would give rise to an English National Party in about five minutes flat and it would pull the whole house down.

    Once is moved once again to conclude that Tam Dalyell was right. Devolution = death to the UK. It's just a matter of time.
    The best I can do is to assume that it has been scrubbed so that the likes of HYUFD can make up stories about being under the SNP jackboot in the next General Election, as indeed he has helpfully just done - completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The development of an English Pmt is not in itself illogical but the Tories have been hostile to any interference with what suited Charles I et al that their apparent enthusiasm is on a par with the DUP legalising gay dinosaur birthday cakes with "Lá Breithe Shona dhuit!" iced on them. So a healthyt dose of scepticism is called for.
    Carnyx , if you piled up the manure spouted on here about Scotland it would be higher than Mt Everest. The amount of supposed Scotch experts pontificating merde on here is unbelievable. HYFUD is not even the worst, he at least has some conviction.

    My favourite Scotch expert was you when you predicted over a dozen seats for Alba and was abusive to anyone who said otherwise.
    Your arse I am never abusive to anyone, fact that you are jessie boys who cry if you are not being praised for your mince does not make it abusive. Stick to your fantasies.
    No, 12 Alba MSPs was a fantasy, as anyone with half a brain cell realised when they saw Salmond's approval ratings.
    I never for a minute thought they would get 12 MSP's, so mince.
    "Majority for Independence, and ALBA will get seats." - malcolmg, 29 April.

    "I see first reasonable poll has ALBA on 6 seats, watch that climb over next month. " - malcolmg, 4 April.

    Best I can do with this search function: any advance on 6+?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,900
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    In the replies:

    "The perfect cover under which to get rid of English Votes for English Laws"
    It makes a change from more Union Flags than an Orange march, I must say.

    But why scrub EVEL? And why is HYUFD so exercised about hacing an English Parliament all of a sudden?
    I really don't know what the Government is playing at when it comes to EVEL. It would be fascinating to hear a convincing explanation.

    As for Unionists, they're at sixes and sevens over how to put right the mess that New Labour created. If you're not going either to reverse devolution outright or accept that dissolution is inevitable, then federalism is the other stable endpoint - in theory. Some embrace it, others think that an English Parliament would give rise to an English National Party in about five minutes flat and it would pull the whole house down.

    Once is moved once again to conclude that Tam Dalyell was right. Devolution = death to the UK. It's just a matter of time.
    The best I can do is to assume that it has been scrubbed so that the likes of HYUFD can make up stories about being under the SNP jackboot in the next General Election, as indeed he has helpfully just done - completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The development of an English Pmt is not in itself illogical but the Tories have been hostile to any interference with what suited Charles I et al that their apparent enthusiasm is on a par with the DUP legalising gay dinosaur birthday cakes with "Lá Breithe Shona dhuit!" iced on them. So a healthyt dose of scepticism is called for.
    Carnyx , if you piled up the manure spouted on here about Scotland it would be higher than Mt Everest. The amount of supposed Scotch experts pontificating merde on here is unbelievable. HYFUD is not even the worst, he at least has some conviction.

    Evening Malc. Trust the health situation is still improving
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    In the replies:

    "The perfect cover under which to get rid of English Votes for English Laws"
    It makes a change from more Union Flags than an Orange march, I must say.

    But why scrub EVEL? And why is HYUFD so exercised about hacing an English Parliament all of a sudden?
    I really don't know what the Government is playing at when it comes to EVEL. It would be fascinating to hear a convincing explanation.

    As for Unionists, they're at sixes and sevens over how to put right the mess that New Labour created. If you're not going either to reverse devolution outright or accept that dissolution is inevitable, then federalism is the other stable endpoint - in theory. Some embrace it, others think that an English Parliament would give rise to an English National Party in about five minutes flat and it would pull the whole house down.

    Once is moved once again to conclude that Tam Dalyell was right. Devolution = death to the UK. It's just a matter of time.
    The best I can do is to assume that it has been scrubbed so that the likes of HYUFD can make up stories about being under the SNP jackboot in the next General Election, as indeed he has helpfully just done - completely ignoring the SNP principle of keeping well clear of truly English legislation.

    The development of an English Pmt is not in itself illogical but the Tories have been hostile to any interference with what suited Charles I et al that their apparent enthusiasm is on a par with the DUP legalising gay dinosaur birthday cakes with "Lá Breithe Shona dhuit!" iced on them. So a healthyt dose of scepticism is called for.
    Carnyx , if you piled up the manure spouted on here about Scotland it would be higher than Mt Everest. The amount of supposed Scotch experts pontificating merde on here is unbelievable. HYFUD is not even the worst, he at least has some conviction.

    My favourite Scotch expert was you when you predicted over a dozen seats for Alba and was abusive to anyone who said otherwise.
    Your arse I am never abusive to anyone, fact that you are jessie boys who cry if you are not being praised for your mince does not make it abusive. Stick to your fantasies.
    No, 12 Alba MSPs was a fantasy, as anyone with half a brain cell realised when they saw Salmond's approval ratings.
    I never for a minute thought they would get 12 MSP's, so mince.
    "Majority for Independence, and ALBA will get seats." - malcolmg, 29 April.

    "I see first reasonable poll has ALBA on 6 seats, watch that climb over next month. " - malcolmg, 4 April.

    Best I can do with this search function: any advance on 6+?
    I've got

    'Numpty , I would expect about 12%-14% minimum , mainly SNP but some Labour as well.'

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3327078#Comment_3327078

    And

    They will get 6 seats with just under 6% and only 1 of those is SNP , so even at that it is a big benefit.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3327069#Comment_3327069

    FYI when you put Alba in at 12% it was 13 seats for Alba in the seat predictors.
This discussion has been closed.