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Why the LDs and LAB could be the main beneficiaries of compulsory voter ID – politicalbetting.com

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  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Well at least it seems neither of these teams can take penalties if it gets that far on Sunday.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,858
    It might be easier without the goalkeeper.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414
    Deleted
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,722
    edited July 2021
    What are the odds on a pro Govt or should I say not anti Govt thread appearing?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    alex_ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    It couldn't have been totally unusual for a detective in California in the 1970s not to carry a gun, since otherwise viewers wouldn't have taken Columbo seriously so to speak.
    There was a time not *that* long ago when guns in America really weren't ubiquitous and central to almost everything that happens, whether within the criminal underworld or without. Was there any particular point that one can pinpoint that that changed?
    Columbine.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,118

    Few weeks ago we saw UK as an outlier re cases.

    Now delta has taken hold in Europe, the growth looks similar if not steeper than UK has experienced.

    I’m sure this will be shared widely by those sharing the previous one too.



    https://twitter.com/ThatRyanChap/status/1412517834706591745?s=20

    Comical Dave has been comparing the EU average line for cases to UK / EU.

    As yellow as Donald Duck.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,118
    edited July 2021
    Fenman said:

    Still not clear who Denmark will face..

    Did we win or lose?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,616

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Yes on 60% of occasions the side going first wins the shoot out.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,032

    alex_ said:

    Back to covid (oh dear) but this seems to be up there with the Warwick modelling for nonsensical projections:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/data-predicts-2m-uk-summer-covid-cases-with-10m-isolating/ar-AALQxT5?ocid=msedgntp

    "Guardian analysis". It's always amusing when journalists do amateur statistics and think they've discovered something amazing that nobody else has considered.

    I wonder if they've considered the likelihood that once numbers start getting reasonably large, many of the close contacts of infected people will be... the same as the close contacts of other simultaneously infected people...
    There must be some fascinating modelling/research in the way that, in different societies and groups (age?) people mix in groups and the interaction between these groups. Are they intersecting sets or islands that rarely touch etc etc...
    I somehow doubt the Gruardian have fired up a Nvidia 3090 cluster to run their own Tensorflow / Pytorch / JAX model....
    No, they've just done the "assume the same number of cases every day linearly forever until the number gets silly" thing, and also assumed Test & Trace just always contact the same number of contacts per case, and then had the cheek to say that is "predicted by the data".

    One would also have to say if Test & Trace were telling 10m people to isolate it's hard to imagine it still being in any way functional. And it would surely equate to the whole of the non-vaccinated population anyway, given the whole double vaxxed population would not have to isolate anyway just because someone else near them did, under the new regime.
    Amateurs.

    I just chucked a 4th order polynomial trend line at the case data.

    This time next year, we will be on 350 million cases per day in the UK.
    That means they'll be curing people in five hours at the most by then. Wonderful!
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the Vietnam withdrawal.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    I don't think so. It is Trump that set the withdrawal timetable, Biden just stuck to it. The Taliban will have Kabul by Christmas, likely sooner.
    Then expect Biden and Harris to be defeated in 2024, Americans do not like losers and military defeats, whether fair or not.

    One poll today already has Trump 49% Harris 45%, though another has Harris ahead

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412424451933847561?s=20

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412423949116481545?s=20

    Plus if Kabul fell to the Taliban and they protected Al Qaeda again then we would have no choice but to invade again anyway
    McClaughlin are almost as much of a joke as Rasmussen.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Italy beat Spain on penalties and reach the Euros final
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,812
    Italy win on penalties!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397
    How cool was that last pen?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,707
      Never in doubt.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the Vietnam withdrawal.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    I don't think so. It is Trump that set the withdrawal timetable, Biden just stuck to it. The Taliban will have Kabul by Christmas, likely sooner.
    Then expect Biden and Harris to be defeated in 2024, Americans do not like losers and military defeats, whether fair or not.

    One poll today already has Trump 49% Harris 45%, though another has Harris ahead

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412424451933847561?s=20

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412423949116481545?s=20

    Plus if Kabul fell to the Taliban and they protected Al Qaeda again then we would have no choice but to invade again anyway
    Which is a fairly good reason why the Taliban wouldn't do that...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    2.16 on Italy to qualify at the start of extra time.

    Nice one Mancini thanks
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,173
    Cue lots of beeping of horns in Woking tonight.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615

    What are the odds on a pro Govt or should I say not anti Govt thread appearing?

    OGH is happy to publish well written headers from any source, even a few of mine...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,547
    (As once sung by Forest fans:)

    Put the champagne on ice
    We're going to Wembley twice.....
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,207
    No va a casa
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,547

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 224
    dixiedean said:

    How cool was that last pen?

    Luck
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the Vietnam withdrawal.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    I don't think so. It is Trump that set the withdrawal timetable, Biden just stuck to it. The Taliban will have Kabul by Christmas, likely sooner.
    Then expect Biden and Harris to be defeated in 2024, Americans do not like losers and military defeats, whether fair or not.

    One poll today already has Trump 49% Harris 45%, though another has Harris ahead

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412424451933847561?s=20

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412423949116481545?s=20

    Plus if Kabul fell to the Taliban and they protected Al Qaeda again then we would have no choice but to invade again anyway
    Which is a fairly good reason why the Taliban wouldn't do that...
    I think they would. No way will anyone invade again.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,812
    Are Spain England in disguise? :lol:
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,722
    Foxy said:

    What are the odds on a pro Govt or should I say not anti Govt thread appearing?

    OGH is happy to publish well written headers from any source, even a few of mine...
    I am sure he is, I.meant from within. The threads are relentlessly non positive,, maybe its justified.
    ..
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,858
    Italy into the final. Betfair & probabilities:-

    1 Italy 1.94 51.5%
    2 England 2.56 39.1%
    3 Denmark 10.5 9.5%
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,173

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
    I witnessed an ABBA shootout at the Community Shield a few years ago and that was a much fairer way of doing it. Not sure why it didn’t become the default.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    Italy now odds on for the tournament?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,616
    Profitable night.

    My laying of Spain for the tournament was never in doubt.

    Thank you Italy.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655

    (As once sung by Forest fans:)

    Put the champagne on ice
    We're going to Wembley twice.....

    4 times for the mighty Owls in 1993.

    No silverware to show but a memorable win over t'blades.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the Vietnam withdrawal.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    I don't think so. It is Trump that set the withdrawal timetable, Biden just stuck to it. The Taliban will have Kabul by Christmas, likely sooner.
    Then expect Biden and Harris to be defeated in 2024, Americans do not like losers and military defeats, whether fair or not.

    One poll today already has Trump 49% Harris 45%, though another has Harris ahead

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412424451933847561?s=20

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412423949116481545?s=20

    Plus if Kabul fell to the Taliban and they protected Al Qaeda again then we would have no choice but to invade again anyway
    No. More likely (1) Biden tries and fails to use diplomacy and sanctions; (2) second-term Trump erases the cities of Afghanistan with nuclear weapons at a rate of one per week, until whatever's left of the Taliban chooses to adopt a more cooperative attitude.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the Vietnam withdrawal.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    I don't think so. It is Trump that set the withdrawal timetable, Biden just stuck to it. The Taliban will have Kabul by Christmas, likely sooner.
    Then expect Biden and Harris to be defeated in 2024, Americans do not like losers and military defeats, whether fair or not.

    One poll today already has Trump 49% Harris 45%, though another has Harris ahead

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412424451933847561?s=20

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412423949116481545?s=20

    Plus if Kabul fell to the Taliban and they protected Al Qaeda again then we would have no choice but to invade again anyway
    Which is a fairly good reason why the Taliban wouldn't do that...
    I think they would. No way will anyone invade again.
    Wrong, we would have to invade again if the Taliban harboured Al Qaeda again or risk 9/11 2.

    There would be no alternative and the US military and establishment would ensure they did.

    Personally I would keep a US and NATO military presence in Afghanistan indefinitely
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046
    edited July 2021

    Fucking hells bells, this Ulsterman is showing he really is so dense light bends around him.

    Amazing that every member of the Italian team sang its National Anthem whereas every single member of the Spanish team remained totally silent. Not one sang the Spanish Anthem!

    https://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1412486514513166338

    I'd actually defend that. Ok, he could have googled it before tweeting his surprise, but it's pretty unusual I'd think for an anthem to not have words, it's not the sort of thing everyone knows and thus being dense for not knowing.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615

    Profitable night.

    My laying of Spain for the tournament was never in doubt.

    Thank you Italy.

    I cashed out in the first part of extra time. Got a bit wobbly over Italy.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    tlg86 said:

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
    I witnessed an ABBA shootout at the Community Shield a few years ago and that was a much fairer way of doing it. Not sure why it didn’t become the default.
    The world is still to come round to my way of thinking of playing the penalty shootout before extra time, so that the team that lost it know they have to win the game in extra time - draw isn't enough for the losers of the penalties.

    The extra incentive to throw people at it and then the chance of them being hit on the counter would make extra time an event as opposed to a (9 time out of 10) petering out of the game.

    It probably wouldn't work, but let's try it anyway!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    Maybe it's time for the football equivalent of the Duckworth-Lewis method in cricket, which would calculate which team had played the best and most positive football using a variety of objective measures such as amount of possession in the opposition half, yellow/red cards, shots on goal, etc. Each team's score could be displayed on the screen throughout the match so that everyone would know which team would win if the match ended in a draw after extra time.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the Vietnam withdrawal.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    I don't think so. It is Trump that set the withdrawal timetable, Biden just stuck to it. The Taliban will have Kabul by Christmas, likely sooner.
    Then expect Biden and Harris to be defeated in 2024, Americans do not like losers and military defeats, whether fair or not.

    One poll today already has Trump 49% Harris 45%, though another has Harris ahead

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412424451933847561?s=20

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412423949116481545?s=20

    Plus if Kabul fell to the Taliban and they protected Al Qaeda again then we would have no choice but to invade again anyway
    No. More likely (1) Biden tries and fails to use diplomacy and sanctions; (2) second-term Trump erases the cities of Afghanistan with nuclear weapons at a rate of one per week, until whatever's left of the Taliban chooses to adopt a more cooperative attitude.
    No, Trump is not interested in foreign wars. He would stay out. Indeed it was the one positive from his Presidency.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the Vietnam withdrawal.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    I don't think so. It is Trump that set the withdrawal timetable, Biden just stuck to it. The Taliban will have Kabul by Christmas, likely sooner.
    Then expect Biden and Harris to be defeated in 2024, Americans do not like losers and military defeats, whether fair or not.

    One poll today already has Trump 49% Harris 45%, though another has Harris ahead

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412424451933847561?s=20

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412423949116481545?s=20

    Plus if Kabul fell to the Taliban and they protected Al Qaeda again then we would have no choice but to invade again anyway
    No. More likely (1) Biden tries and fails to use diplomacy and sanctions; (2) second-term Trump erases the cities of Afghanistan with nuclear weapons at a rate of one per week, until whatever's left of the Taliban chooses to adopt a more cooperative attitude.
    Though that scenario still sees Trump return to win the 2024 presidential election and claim a delayed second term
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,858
    Telegraph parliamentary sketch:-

    Schools still need the answer to one key question: why is Gavin Williamson still in his job?
    ...
    The Education Secretary had begun by announcing the Government’s plans for schools and universities after the ending of Covid restrictions. In response, his opposite number – Labour’s Kate Green – asked him a total of 19 questions. She asked about increasing ventilation in classrooms, the scientific evidence for abandoning mask-wearing in schools, preparations for the return of international students, and much else besides.

    Afterwards, just to check, I transcribed Mr Williamson’s reply to Ms Green in full – and can confirm that, of her 19 questions, he answered precisely none.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/06/schools-still-need-answer-one-key-question-gavin-williamson/ (£££)

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,616
    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe it's time for the football equivalent of the Duckworth-Lewis method in cricket, which would calculate which team had played the best and most positive football using a variety of objective measures such as amount of possession in the opposition half, yellow/red cards, shots on goal, etc. Each team's score could be displayed on the screen throughout the match so that everyone would know which team would win if the match ended in a draw after extra time.

    No.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    Fucking hells bells, this Ulsterman is showing he really is so dense light bends around him.

    Amazing that every member of the Italian team sang its National Anthem whereas every single member of the Spanish team remained totally silent. Not one sang the Spanish Anthem!

    https://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1412486514513166338

    I'd actually defend that. Ok, he could have googled it before tweeting his surprise, but it's pretty unusual I'd think for an anthem to not have words, it's not the sort of thing everyone knows and thus being dense for not knowing.
    TSE just likes to be offensive to people he believes are inferior to him
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the Vietnam withdrawal.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    I don't think so. It is Trump that set the withdrawal timetable, Biden just stuck to it. The Taliban will have Kabul by Christmas, likely sooner.
    Then expect Biden and Harris to be defeated in 2024, Americans do not like losers and military defeats, whether fair or not.

    One poll today already has Trump 49% Harris 45%, though another has Harris ahead

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412424451933847561?s=20

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412423949116481545?s=20

    Plus if Kabul fell to the Taliban and they protected Al Qaeda again then we would have no choice but to invade again anyway
    Which is a fairly good reason why the Taliban wouldn't do that...
    I think they would. No way will anyone invade again.
    Wrong, we would have to invade again if the Taliban harboured Al Qaeda again or risk 9/11 2.

    There would be no alternative and the US military and establishment would ensure they did.

    Personally I would keep a US and NATO military presence in Afghanistan indefinitely
    Can that really be the answer? It's certainly depressing what the situation is there 20 years on, but permanent occupation?

    If the Taliban are smart they'll be very careful to not give succour to anyone interested in events beyond Afghanistan itself, since the world isn't going to care what happens internally.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,688
    ICO - Information Commissioner's Office
    @ICOnews
    NEW: We have launched an investigation into the use of private correspondence channels at the Department of Health and Social Care.
    Read Elizabeth Denham’s blog for more: https://ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/news-and-events/news-and-blogs/2021/07/ico-launches-investigation-into-the-use-of-private-correspondence-channels/
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,173

    tlg86 said:

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
    I witnessed an ABBA shootout at the Community Shield a few years ago and that was a much fairer way of doing it. Not sure why it didn’t become the default.
    The world is still to come round to my way of thinking of playing the penalty shootout before extra time, so that the team that lost it know they have to win the game in extra time - draw isn't enough for the losers of the penalties.

    The extra incentive to throw people at it and then the chance of them being hit on the counter would make extra time an event as opposed to a (9 time out of 10) petering out of the game.

    It probably wouldn't work, but let's try it anyway!
    Yes, I’ve advocated this for a long time.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397

    tlg86 said:

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
    I witnessed an ABBA shootout at the Community Shield a few years ago and that was a much fairer way of doing it. Not sure why it didn’t become the default.
    The world is still to come round to my way of thinking of playing the penalty shootout before extra time, so that the team that lost it know they have to win the game in extra time - draw isn't enough for the losers of the penalties.

    The extra incentive to throw people at it and then the chance of them being hit on the counter would make extra time an event as opposed to a (9 time out of 10) petering out of the game.

    It probably wouldn't work, but let's try it anyway!
    Saw it suggested that it happen before every league game.
    In the event of a draw shoot out winner gets 2 points, loser 1.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the Vietnam withdrawal.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    I don't think so. It is Trump that set the withdrawal timetable, Biden just stuck to it. The Taliban will have Kabul by Christmas, likely sooner.
    Then expect Biden and Harris to be defeated in 2024, Americans do not like losers and military defeats, whether fair or not.

    One poll today already has Trump 49% Harris 45%, though another has Harris ahead

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412424451933847561?s=20

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412423949116481545?s=20

    Plus if Kabul fell to the Taliban and they protected Al Qaeda again then we would have no choice but to invade again anyway
    Which is a fairly good reason why the Taliban wouldn't do that...
    I think they would. No way will anyone invade again.
    Wrong, we would have to invade again if the Taliban harboured Al Qaeda again or risk 9/11 2.

    There would be no alternative and the US military and establishment would ensure they did.

    Personally I would keep a US and NATO military presence in Afghanistan indefinitely
    Can that really be the answer? It's certainly depressing what the situation is there 20 years on, but permanent occupation?

    If the Taliban are smart they'll be very careful to not give succour to anyone interested in events beyond Afghanistan itself, since the world isn't going to care what happens internally.
    If we have to keep troops in Afghanistan for 100 years so be it.

    It is better than Al Qaeda and ISIS coming back and using it as a base to relaunch terrorist attacks on the West
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    Russia failed in Afghanistan.

    The west failed in Afghanistan.

    Surely it is China's turn to be humiliated there?
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    tlg86 said:

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
    I witnessed an ABBA shootout at the Community Shield a few years ago and that was a much fairer way of doing it. Not sure why it didn’t become the default.
    Some sort of karaoke?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397
    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe it's time for the football equivalent of the Duckworth-Lewis method in cricket, which would calculate which team had played the best and most positive football using a variety of objective measures such as amount of possession in the opposition half, yellow/red cards, shots on goal, etc. Each team's score could be displayed on the screen throughout the match so that everyone would know which team would win if the match ended in a draw after extra time.

    At Junior School we decided house and class football draws by number of corners.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the Vietnam withdrawal.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    I don't think so. It is Trump that set the withdrawal timetable, Biden just stuck to it. The Taliban will have Kabul by Christmas, likely sooner.
    Then expect Biden and Harris to be defeated in 2024, Americans do not like losers and military defeats, whether fair or not.

    One poll today already has Trump 49% Harris 45%, though another has Harris ahead

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412424451933847561?s=20

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412423949116481545?s=20

    Plus if Kabul fell to the Taliban and they protected Al Qaeda again then we would have no choice but to invade again anyway
    No. More likely (1) Biden tries and fails to use diplomacy and sanctions; (2) second-term Trump erases the cities of Afghanistan with nuclear weapons at a rate of one per week, until whatever's left of the Taliban chooses to adopt a more cooperative attitude.
    Though that scenario still sees Trump return to win the 2024 presidential election and claim a delayed second term
    A theoretical Trump second term (which won't happen, or will only happen following the complete collapse of US democracy) would spend all it's time persecuting domestic political opponents. He wouldn't pay any attention to what is going abroad and the rest of us would just be left to fend it out with Russian and China.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,707
    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
    I witnessed an ABBA shootout at the Community Shield a few years ago and that was a much fairer way of doing it. Not sure why it didn’t become the default.
    The world is still to come round to my way of thinking of playing the penalty shootout before extra time, so that the team that lost it know they have to win the game in extra time - draw isn't enough for the losers of the penalties.

    The extra incentive to throw people at it and then the chance of them being hit on the counter would make extra time an event as opposed to a (9 time out of 10) petering out of the game.

    It probably wouldn't work, but let's try it anyway!
    Saw it suggested that it happen before every league game.
    In the event of a draw shoot out winner gets 2 points, loser 1.
    Interesting idea.
    (and nice subjunctive).

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the Vietnam withdrawal.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    I don't think so. It is Trump that set the withdrawal timetable, Biden just stuck to it. The Taliban will have Kabul by Christmas, likely sooner.
    Then expect Biden and Harris to be defeated in 2024, Americans do not like losers and military defeats, whether fair or not.

    One poll today already has Trump 49% Harris 45%, though another has Harris ahead

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412424451933847561?s=20

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412423949116481545?s=20

    Plus if Kabul fell to the Taliban and they protected Al Qaeda again then we would have no choice but to invade again anyway
    No. More likely (1) Biden tries and fails to use diplomacy and sanctions; (2) second-term Trump erases the cities of Afghanistan with nuclear weapons at a rate of one per week, until whatever's left of the Taliban chooses to adopt a more cooperative attitude.
    No, Trump is not interested in foreign wars. He would stay out. Indeed it was the one positive from his Presidency.
    “Defeating ISIS and other radical Islamic terror groups will be our highest priority,” said the Trump administration on coming into office. If the Biden-Harris administration were humiliated by defeat in Afghanistan Trump would bomb it to kingdom come if he returned to office and then retake Kabul and claim to have restored US pride and power.

    It is all about image for him and he would then be Reagan 2 to Biden's Carter 2 after the Iran hostages disaster

    https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/trump-administration-isis-al-qaeda
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Presumably all the Denmark rampers on here will be betting the house on them to qualify at the generous price of 3.5.

    (I’ve taken it as insurance)
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the Vietnam withdrawal.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    I don't think so. It is Trump that set the withdrawal timetable, Biden just stuck to it. The Taliban will have Kabul by Christmas, likely sooner.
    Then expect Biden and Harris to be defeated in 2024, Americans do not like losers and military defeats, whether fair or not.

    One poll today already has Trump 49% Harris 45%, though another has Harris ahead

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412424451933847561?s=20

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412423949116481545?s=20

    Plus if Kabul fell to the Taliban and they protected Al Qaeda again then we would have no choice but to invade again anyway
    Which is a fairly good reason why the Taliban wouldn't do that...
    I think they would. No way will anyone invade again.
    Wrong, we would have to invade again if the Taliban harboured Al Qaeda again or risk 9/11 2.

    There would be no alternative and the US military and establishment would ensure they did.

    Personally I would keep a US and NATO military presence in Afghanistan indefinitely
    Can that really be the answer? It's certainly depressing what the situation is there 20 years on, but permanent occupation?

    If the Taliban are smart they'll be very careful to not give succour to anyone interested in events beyond Afghanistan itself, since the world isn't going to care what happens internally.
    If we have to keep troops in Afghanistan for 100 years so be it.

    It is better than Al Qaeda and ISIS coming back and using it as a base to relaunch terrorist attacks on the West
    Completely ignoring the preceding point that the Taliban really aren't interested in what goes on beyond Afghanistan's borders. So won't make the mistake again of hosting foreign terrorist organisations, if they can help it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,616
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Fucking hells bells, this Ulsterman is showing he really is so dense light bends around him.

    Amazing that every member of the Italian team sang its National Anthem whereas every single member of the Spanish team remained totally silent. Not one sang the Spanish Anthem!

    https://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1412486514513166338

    I'd actually defend that. Ok, he could have googled it before tweeting his surprise, but it's pretty unusual I'd think for an anthem to not have words, it's not the sort of thing everyone knows and thus being dense for not knowing.
    TSE just likes to be offensive to people he believes are inferior to him
    He's a bigot, of course he's inferior to me.
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 224

    Russia failed in Afghanistan.

    The west failed in Afghanistan.

    Surely it is China's turn to be humiliated there?

    Surely they are not putting troops in Afghanistan?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    Andy_JS said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    It couldn't have been totally unusual for a detective in California in the 1970s not to carry a gun, since otherwise viewers wouldn't have taken Columbo seriously so to speak.
    IIRC Kojack very rarely used a gun either.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited July 2021
    Nunu3 said:

    Russia failed in Afghanistan.

    The west failed in Afghanistan.

    Surely it is China's turn to be humiliated there?

    Surely they are not putting troops in Afghanistan?
    Kabul has been turning to Beijing as DC moves away
    https://nypost.com/2021/07/05/china-ramping-up-afghanistan-involvement-amid-us-withdrawal/
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
    I witnessed an ABBA shootout at the Community Shield a few years ago and that was a much fairer way of doing it. Not sure why it didn’t become the default.
    The world is still to come round to my way of thinking of playing the penalty shootout before extra time, so that the team that lost it know they have to win the game in extra time - draw isn't enough for the losers of the penalties.

    The extra incentive to throw people at it and then the chance of them being hit on the counter would make extra time an event as opposed to a (9 time out of 10) petering out of the game.

    It probably wouldn't work, but let's try it anyway!
    Saw it suggested that it happen before every league game.
    In the event of a draw shoot out winner gets 2 points, loser 1.
    It would be a disaster. You get enough complaints at present about teams packing the defence and playing for a draw/penalties. How much worse when doing so would mean a guaranteed victory if successful.

    Of if the superior team on paper won the shootout, even worse. The real football match would be a foregone conclusion.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Russia failed in Afghanistan.

    The west failed in Afghanistan.

    Surely it is China's turn to be humiliated there?

    Even the Macedonians failed in Afghanistan
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651

    Russia failed in Afghanistan.

    The west failed in Afghanistan.

    Surely it is China's turn to be humiliated there?

    You omitted the British Empire's failure in Afghanistan in the 19th century.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615

    Russia failed in Afghanistan.

    The west failed in Afghanistan.

    Surely it is China's turn to be humiliated there?

    No, China doesn't do colonies. What it does is the mirror of European extraterritoriality in China in the century 1842-1943. Economic rather than political control.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Foxy said:

    Russia failed in Afghanistan.

    The west failed in Afghanistan.

    Surely it is China's turn to be humiliated there?

    No, China doesn't do colonies. What it does is the mirror of European extraterritoriality in China in the century 1842-1943. Economic rather than political control.
    Nor did America.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,707

    Russia failed in Afghanistan.

    The west failed in Afghanistan.

    Surely it is China's turn to be humiliated there?

    You omitted the British Empire's failure in Afghanistan in the 19th century.
    That was only a game.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,616
    edited July 2021
    Bloody hell, this government is terrible, first they ban foie gras now they banning boiling lobsters alive. Talk about woke shit about lobsters feeling pain.

    EXC: Boiling lobsters alive will be banned as ministers prepare to back an amendment to recognise they can feel pain

    Crabs, squid and octopus and cuttlefish are among the non-vertebrates set to be recognised as sentient under the plans


    https://twitter.com/EleniCourea/status/1412526422246240258

    PS - Do you know how difficult it is for a good Muslim boy to find halal foie gras?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585

    Russia failed in Afghanistan.

    The west failed in Afghanistan.

    Surely it is China's turn to be humiliated there?

    China would round up the Afghans and put them in camps and ship in millions of Chinese to replace them.

    As its done to the Uyghurs and Tibetans.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,784

    No va a casa

    Stanno non andando a casa.

    I think.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe it's time for the football equivalent of the Duckworth-Lewis method in cricket, which would calculate which team had played the best and most positive football using a variety of objective measures such as amount of possession in the opposition half, yellow/red cards, shots on goal, etc. Each team's score could be displayed on the screen throughout the match so that everyone would know which team would win if the match ended in a draw after extra time.

    'Best and most positive football' is never going to provide the equivalent of runs/wickets. I thought Spain were the better side tonight but not so much that it was an injustice. Italy actualy came back in the second half of extra time, Berardi really wasn't far offside with the disalllowed goal and they also hit the post.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the Vietnam withdrawal.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    I don't think so. It is Trump that set the withdrawal timetable, Biden just stuck to it. The Taliban will have Kabul by Christmas, likely sooner.
    Then expect Biden and Harris to be defeated in 2024, Americans do not like losers and military defeats, whether fair or not.

    One poll today already has Trump 49% Harris 45%, though another has Harris ahead

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412424451933847561?s=20

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412423949116481545?s=20

    Plus if Kabul fell to the Taliban and they protected Al Qaeda again then we would have no choice but to invade again anyway
    No. More likely (1) Biden tries and fails to use diplomacy and sanctions; (2) second-term Trump erases the cities of Afghanistan with nuclear weapons at a rate of one per week, until whatever's left of the Taliban chooses to adopt a more cooperative attitude.
    No, Trump is not interested in foreign wars. He would stay out. Indeed it was the one positive from his Presidency.
    “Defeating ISIS and other radical Islamic terror groups will be our highest priority,” said the Trump administration on coming into office. If the Biden-Harris administration were humiliated by defeat in Afghanistan Trump would bomb it to kingdom come if he returned to office and then retake Kabul and claim to have restored US pride and power.

    It is all about image for him and he would then be Reagan 2 to Biden's Carter 2 after the Iran hostages disaster

    https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/trump-administration-isis-al-qaeda
    Sure, he does the rhetoric, but then bugs out. Bone Spurs is not a fighter.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232

    Bloody hell, this government is terrible, first they ban foie gras now they banning boiling lobsters alive. Talk about woke shit about lobsters feeling pain.

    EXC: Boiling lobsters alive will be banned as ministers prepare to back an amendment to recognise they can feel pain

    Crabs, squid and octopus and cuttlefish are among the non-vertebrates set to be recognised as sentient under the plans


    https://twitter.com/EleniCourea/status/1412526422246240258

    PS - Do you know how difficult it is for a good Muslim boy to find halal foie gras?

    Foie gras is going, isn’t it? I will miss it. I know it’s cruel and all that but wow it can be delicious
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
    I witnessed an ABBA shootout at the Community Shield a few years ago and that was a much fairer way of doing it. Not sure why it didn’t become the default.
    The world is still to come round to my way of thinking of playing the penalty shootout before extra time, so that the team that lost it know they have to win the game in extra time - draw isn't enough for the losers of the penalties.

    The extra incentive to throw people at it and then the chance of them being hit on the counter would make extra time an event as opposed to a (9 time out of 10) petering out of the game.

    It probably wouldn't work, but let's try it anyway!
    Yes, I’ve advocated this for a long time.
    If we must persist with shootouts, this seems a great idea to me. I’m amazed I’ve not seen it seriously suggested before.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,616
    Leon said:

    Bloody hell, this government is terrible, first they ban foie gras now they banning boiling lobsters alive. Talk about woke shit about lobsters feeling pain.

    EXC: Boiling lobsters alive will be banned as ministers prepare to back an amendment to recognise they can feel pain

    Crabs, squid and octopus and cuttlefish are among the non-vertebrates set to be recognised as sentient under the plans


    https://twitter.com/EleniCourea/status/1412526422246240258

    PS - Do you know how difficult it is for a good Muslim boy to find halal foie gras?

    Foie gras is going, isn’t it? I will miss it. I know it’s cruel and all that but wow it can be delicious
    It is, another Brexit dividend.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/reveller/restaurants/fois-gras-banned-uk-brexit-b923155.html
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,308

    Andy_JS said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    It couldn't have been totally unusual for a detective in California in the 1970s not to carry a gun, since otherwise viewers wouldn't have taken Columbo seriously so to speak.
    IIRC Kojack very rarely used a gun either.
    That is a relief, particularly seeing as he is now Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    alex_ said:

    Foxy said:

    Russia failed in Afghanistan.

    The west failed in Afghanistan.

    Surely it is China's turn to be humiliated there?

    No, China doesn't do colonies. What it does is the mirror of European extraterritoriality in China in the century 1842-1943. Economic rather than political control.
    Nor did America.
    America did do colonies. Philippines being the most obvious.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,812

    Russia failed in Afghanistan.

    The west failed in Afghanistan.

    Surely it is China's turn to be humiliated there?

    You omitted the British Empire's failure in Afghanistan in the 19th century.
    Part of the West, surely?
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    Telegraph parliamentary sketch:-

    Schools still need the answer to one key question: why is Gavin Williamson still in his job?
    ...
    The Education Secretary had begun by announcing the Government’s plans for schools and universities after the ending of Covid restrictions. In response, his opposite number – Labour’s Kate Green – asked him a total of 19 questions. She asked about increasing ventilation in classrooms, the scientific evidence for abandoning mask-wearing in schools, preparations for the return of international students, and much else besides.

    Afterwards, just to check, I transcribed Mr Williamson’s reply to Ms Green in full – and can confirm that, of her 19 questions, he answered precisely none.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/06/schools-still-need-answer-one-key-question-gavin-williamson/ (£££)

    So what? In terms of dispatch box performance he is just playing a game of follow the leader.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
    I witnessed an ABBA shootout at the Community Shield a few years ago and that was a much fairer way of doing it. Not sure why it didn’t become the default.
    The world is still to come round to my way of thinking of playing the penalty shootout before extra time, so that the team that lost it know they have to win the game in extra time - draw isn't enough for the losers of the penalties.

    The extra incentive to throw people at it and then the chance of them being hit on the counter would make extra time an event as opposed to a (9 time out of 10) petering out of the game.

    It probably wouldn't work, but let's try it anyway!
    Yes, I’ve advocated this for a long time.
    If we must persist with shootouts, this seems a great idea to me. I’m amazed I’ve not seen it seriously suggested before.
    Because it’s not a good idea. Not much wrong with shootouts anyway - a real test of skill under pressure.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    geoffw said:

    Russia failed in Afghanistan.

    The west failed in Afghanistan.

    Surely it is China's turn to be humiliated there?

    You omitted the British Empire's failure in Afghanistan in the 19th century.
    That was only a game.


    I’ve heard quite a good one as well.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Leon said:

    Bloody hell, this government is terrible, first they ban foie gras now they banning boiling lobsters alive. Talk about woke shit about lobsters feeling pain.

    EXC: Boiling lobsters alive will be banned as ministers prepare to back an amendment to recognise they can feel pain

    Crabs, squid and octopus and cuttlefish are among the non-vertebrates set to be recognised as sentient under the plans


    https://twitter.com/EleniCourea/status/1412526422246240258

    PS - Do you know how difficult it is for a good Muslim boy to find halal foie gras?

    Foie gras is going, isn’t it? I will miss it. I know it’s cruel and all that but wow it can be delicious
    Presumably we'll need customs checks to stop it being imported.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,707
    alex_ said:

    geoffw said:

    Russia failed in Afghanistan.

    The west failed in Afghanistan.

    Surely it is China's turn to be humiliated there?

    You omitted the British Empire's failure in Afghanistan in the 19th century.
    That was only a game.


    I’ve heard quite a good one as well.
    It was a Great Game.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,113
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, President Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the final Vietnam withdrawal in 1975 and the fall of Saigon.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    Of course, the fact that the previous President and Vice-President had been forced out of their positions for *different* bits of corruption had absolutely nothing to do with the Republican's defeat in 1976.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    geoffw said:

    alex_ said:

    geoffw said:

    Russia failed in Afghanistan.

    The west failed in Afghanistan.

    Surely it is China's turn to be humiliated there?

    You omitted the British Empire's failure in Afghanistan in the 19th century.
    That was only a game.


    I’ve heard quite a good one as well.
    It was a Great Game.

    A Great Game or THE Great Game?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    edited July 2021
    alex_ said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
    I witnessed an ABBA shootout at the Community Shield a few years ago and that was a much fairer way of doing it. Not sure why it didn’t become the default.
    The world is still to come round to my way of thinking of playing the penalty shootout before extra time, so that the team that lost it know they have to win the game in extra time - draw isn't enough for the losers of the penalties.

    The extra incentive to throw people at it and then the chance of them being hit on the counter would make extra time an event as opposed to a (9 time out of 10) petering out of the game.

    It probably wouldn't work, but let's try it anyway!
    Yes, I’ve advocated this for a long time.
    If we must persist with shootouts, this seems a great idea to me. I’m amazed I’ve not seen it seriously suggested before.
    Because it’s not a good idea. Not much wrong with shootouts anyway - a real test of skill under pressure.
    Well they decide a match based on an extremely narrow facet of the game - they are far from ideal as a tiebreaker.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,113

    Few weeks ago we saw UK as an outlier re cases.

    Now delta has taken hold in Europe, the growth looks similar if not steeper than UK has experienced.

    I’m sure this will be shared widely by those sharing the previous one too.



    https://twitter.com/ThatRyanChap/status/1412517834706591745?s=20

    Its a good job half of Europe won't be heading to the likes of Spain, Portugal and Greece for their summer holidays....
    Once Delta is seeded (as it is in Europe), then the extra mingling will likely have relatively little effect.

    Simply: a Germany will be generating 10,000 cases a day from Delta irrespective in three or four weeks. That's 70,000/week. Even if 2,000 people came back from Spain every week with infections (and bear in mind that EU air travel is still down 80% from prepandemic levels), it'd be a pimple on growth.

    Schools are the biggest delta for the spread of Delta - and both the EU and the US are lucky that they are shut for the summer holidays. The EU doubly-so, because it enables them to catch up in the vaccine stakes.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    Foxy said:

    Russia failed in Afghanistan.

    The west failed in Afghanistan.

    Surely it is China's turn to be humiliated there?

    No, China doesn't do colonies. What it does is the mirror of European extraterritoriality in China in the century 1842-1943. Economic rather than political control.
    Nor did America.
    America did do colonies. Philippines being the most obvious.
    And we still have Guam, the Northern Marianas, American Samoa, Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands. Plus a few uninhabited islands mostly in the Pacific.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    alex_ said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
    I witnessed an ABBA shootout at the Community Shield a few years ago and that was a much fairer way of doing it. Not sure why it didn’t become the default.
    The world is still to come round to my way of thinking of playing the penalty shootout before extra time, so that the team that lost it know they have to win the game in extra time - draw isn't enough for the losers of the penalties.

    The extra incentive to throw people at it and then the chance of them being hit on the counter would make extra time an event as opposed to a (9 time out of 10) petering out of the game.

    It probably wouldn't work, but let's try it anyway!
    Yes, I’ve advocated this for a long time.
    If we must persist with shootouts, this seems a great idea to me. I’m amazed I’ve not seen it seriously suggested before.
    Because it’s not a good idea. Not much wrong with shootouts anyway - a real test of skill under pressure.
    Well they decide a match based on an extremely narrow facet of the game - they are far from ideal as a tiebreaker.
    A golden goal after the 30 minutes of extra time please.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the Vietnam withdrawal.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    I don't think so. It is Trump that set the withdrawal timetable, Biden just stuck to it. The Taliban will have Kabul by Christmas, likely sooner.
    Then expect Biden and Harris to be defeated in 2024, Americans do not like losers and military defeats, whether fair or not.

    One poll today already has Trump 49% Harris 45%, though another has Harris ahead

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412424451933847561?s=20

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412423949116481545?s=20

    Plus if Kabul fell to the Taliban and they protected Al Qaeda again then we would have no choice but to invade again anyway
    No. More likely (1) Biden tries and fails to use diplomacy and sanctions; (2) second-term Trump erases the cities of Afghanistan with nuclear weapons at a rate of one per week, until whatever's left of the Taliban chooses to adopt a more cooperative attitude.
    No, Trump is not interested in foreign wars. He would stay out. Indeed it was the one positive from his Presidency.
    “Defeating ISIS and other radical Islamic terror groups will be our highest priority,” said the Trump administration on coming into office. If the Biden-Harris administration were humiliated by defeat in Afghanistan Trump would bomb it to kingdom come if he returned to office and then retake Kabul and claim to have restored US pride and power.

    It is all about image for him and he would then be Reagan 2 to Biden's Carter 2 after the Iran hostages disaster

    https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/trump-administration-isis-al-qaeda
    Sure, he does the rhetoric, but then bugs out. Bone Spurs is not a fighter.
    The US dropped a record number of bombs in Afghanistan under Trump, he may not send in vast numbers of ground troops again but he would certainly bomb it to kingdom come

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/28/us-afghanistan-war-bombs-2019
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    edited July 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, President Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the final Vietnam withdrawal in 1975 and the fall of Saigon.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    Of course, the fact that the previous President and Vice-President had been forced out of their positions for *different* bits of corruption had absolutely nothing to do with the Republican's defeat in 1976.
    Neither did pardoning the corrupt former President. Oh no.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    edited July 2021

    Leon said:

    Bloody hell, this government is terrible, first they ban foie gras now they banning boiling lobsters alive. Talk about woke shit about lobsters feeling pain.

    EXC: Boiling lobsters alive will be banned as ministers prepare to back an amendment to recognise they can feel pain

    Crabs, squid and octopus and cuttlefish are among the non-vertebrates set to be recognised as sentient under the plans


    https://twitter.com/EleniCourea/status/1412526422246240258

    PS - Do you know how difficult it is for a good Muslim boy to find halal foie gras?

    Foie gras is going, isn’t it? I will miss it. I know it’s cruel and all that but wow it can be delicious
    It is, another Brexit dividend.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/reveller/restaurants/fois-gras-banned-uk-brexit-b923155.html
    I’m not particularly squeamish about animals. I’ve no problem with fox hunting, or bull fighting, the animals die in terror but it is brief and most death is terrible. And I’ve seen lamped foxes limp away to die in agony over hours in the dark

    I find it very hard to justify foie gras, however. It is pretty obscene, no matter how delicious the outcome

    On the upside, we are surely mere years from laboratories creating lifeless meats which will exactly mimic the stuff we love from suffering animals, which will neatly end the argument. Tho I bet a few Green puritans will still object, because their real target is human pleasure
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, President Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the final Vietnam withdrawal in 1975 and the fall of Saigon.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    Of course, the fact that the previous President and Vice-President had been forced out of their positions for *different* bits of corruption had absolutely nothing to do with the Republican's defeat in 1976.
    Ford was not Nixon and had relatively high approval ratings initially which collapsed by the fall of Saigon.

    In 1974 for example Ford's approval was at 71% despite Watergate, which had plummeted to 40% by April 1975 and the fall of Saigon

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/23995/gerald-ford-retrospective.aspx
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    kle4 said:

    Fucking hells bells, this Ulsterman is showing he really is so dense light bends around him.

    Amazing that every member of the Italian team sang its National Anthem whereas every single member of the Spanish team remained totally silent. Not one sang the Spanish Anthem!

    https://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1412486514513166338

    I'd actually defend that. Ok, he could have googled it before tweeting his surprise, but it's pretty unusual I'd think for an anthem to not have words, it's not the sort of thing everyone knows and thus being dense for not knowing.
    To say it doesn’t have words is not true. It has words. Just not officially.

    Glory to the Fatherland that knew how to follow,
    over the Ocean blue, the course of the setting sun.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
    I witnessed an ABBA shootout at the Community Shield a few years ago and that was a much fairer way of doing it. Not sure why it didn’t become the default.
    The world is still to come round to my way of thinking of playing the penalty shootout before extra time, so that the team that lost it know they have to win the game in extra time - draw isn't enough for the losers of the penalties.

    The extra incentive to throw people at it and then the chance of them being hit on the counter would make extra time an event as opposed to a (9 time out of 10) petering out of the game.

    It probably wouldn't work, but let's try it anyway!
    Yes, I’ve advocated this for a long time.
    If we must persist with shootouts, this seems a great idea to me. I’m amazed I’ve not seen it seriously suggested before.
    Because it’s not a good idea. Not much wrong with shootouts anyway - a real test of skill under pressure.
    Well they decide a match based on an extremely narrow facet of the game - they are far from ideal as a tiebreaker.
    All tie breakers in sport (other than replays) decide matches/outcomes on “narrow facets” of games (if even that). You could just as easily argue that penalties break down the game to its essential basics. And, of course, having pre extra time penalties would not escape that criticism anyway.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    alex_ said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
    I witnessed an ABBA shootout at the Community Shield a few years ago and that was a much fairer way of doing it. Not sure why it didn’t become the default.
    The world is still to come round to my way of thinking of playing the penalty shootout before extra time, so that the team that lost it know they have to win the game in extra time - draw isn't enough for the losers of the penalties.

    The extra incentive to throw people at it and then the chance of them being hit on the counter would make extra time an event as opposed to a (9 time out of 10) petering out of the game.

    It probably wouldn't work, but let's try it anyway!
    Yes, I’ve advocated this for a long time.
    If we must persist with shootouts, this seems a great idea to me. I’m amazed I’ve not seen it seriously suggested before.
    Because it’s not a good idea. Not much wrong with shootouts anyway - a real test of skill under pressure.
    Well they decide a match based on an extremely narrow facet of the game - they are far from ideal as a tiebreaker.
    A golden goal after the 30 minutes of extra time please.
    Think you’d then get lots of injuries as the matches could go on indefinitely. Otherwise, I’d agree.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,616
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, President Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the final Vietnam withdrawal in 1975 and the fall of Saigon.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    Of course, the fact that the previous President and Vice-President had been forced out of their positions for *different* bits of corruption had absolutely nothing to do with the Republican's defeat in 1976.
    Ford was not Nixon and had relatively high approval ratings initially which collapsed by the fall of Saigon.

    In 1974 for example Ford's approval was at 71% despite Watergate, which had plummeted to 40% by April 1975 and the fall of Saigon

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/23995/gerald-ford-retrospective.aspx
    [Ford] started with high job approval ratings, but his decision to pardon Nixon for the Watergate affair sent his ratings sharply downward.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232

    alex_ said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
    I witnessed an ABBA shootout at the Community Shield a few years ago and that was a much fairer way of doing it. Not sure why it didn’t become the default.
    The world is still to come round to my way of thinking of playing the penalty shootout before extra time, so that the team that lost it know they have to win the game in extra time - draw isn't enough for the losers of the penalties.

    The extra incentive to throw people at it and then the chance of them being hit on the counter would make extra time an event as opposed to a (9 time out of 10) petering out of the game.

    It probably wouldn't work, but let's try it anyway!
    Yes, I’ve advocated this for a long time.
    If we must persist with shootouts, this seems a great idea to me. I’m amazed I’ve not seen it seriously suggested before.
    Because it’s not a good idea. Not much wrong with shootouts anyway - a real test of skill under pressure.
    Well they decide a match based on an extremely narrow facet of the game - they are far from ideal as a tiebreaker.
    A golden goal after the 30 minutes of extra time please.
    Too long. Ten minutes of extra time, then golden goal, but take off a player from each side every five minutes
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,113
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Maybe it's time for the football equivalent of the Duckworth-Lewis method in cricket, which would calculate which team had played the best and most positive football using a variety of objective measures such as amount of possession in the opposition half, yellow/red cards, shots on goal, etc. Each team's score could be displayed on the screen throughout the match so that everyone would know which team would win if the match ended in a draw after extra time.

    At Junior School we decided house and class football draws by number of corners.
    Why not have corners count as 0.1 of a goal?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Leon said:

    Bloody hell, this government is terrible, first they ban foie gras now they banning boiling lobsters alive. Talk about woke shit about lobsters feeling pain.

    EXC: Boiling lobsters alive will be banned as ministers prepare to back an amendment to recognise they can feel pain

    Crabs, squid and octopus and cuttlefish are among the non-vertebrates set to be recognised as sentient under the plans


    https://twitter.com/EleniCourea/status/1412526422246240258

    PS - Do you know how difficult it is for a good Muslim boy to find halal foie gras?

    Foie gras is going, isn’t it? I will miss it. I know it’s cruel and all that but wow it can be delicious
    It is, another Brexit dividend.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/reveller/restaurants/fois-gras-banned-uk-brexit-b923155.html
    Brexiteers could have sold me that, just not the wee- pretendy sovereignty garbage.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, President Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the final Vietnam withdrawal in 1975 and the fall of Saigon.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    Of course, the fact that the previous President and Vice-President had been forced out of their positions for *different* bits of corruption had absolutely nothing to do with the Republican's defeat in 1976.
    Ford was not Nixon and had relatively high approval ratings initially which collapsed by the fall of Saigon.

    In 1974 for example Ford's approval was at 71% despite Watergate, which had plummeted to 40% by April 1975 and the fall of Saigon

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/23995/gerald-ford-retrospective.aspx
    Surely HYUFD you’re not suggesting that polling today might not be the best indicator of what might happen months or years into the future? And that “events” both foreseeable or not might have a role to play?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Leon said:

    alex_ said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
    I witnessed an ABBA shootout at the Community Shield a few years ago and that was a much fairer way of doing it. Not sure why it didn’t become the default.
    The world is still to come round to my way of thinking of playing the penalty shootout before extra time, so that the team that lost it know they have to win the game in extra time - draw isn't enough for the losers of the penalties.

    The extra incentive to throw people at it and then the chance of them being hit on the counter would make extra time an event as opposed to a (9 time out of 10) petering out of the game.

    It probably wouldn't work, but let's try it anyway!
    Yes, I’ve advocated this for a long time.
    If we must persist with shootouts, this seems a great idea to me. I’m amazed I’ve not seen it seriously suggested before.
    Because it’s not a good idea. Not much wrong with shootouts anyway - a real test of skill under pressure.
    Well they decide a match based on an extremely narrow facet of the game - they are far from ideal as a tiebreaker.
    A golden goal after the 30 minutes of extra time please.
    Too long. Ten minutes of extra time, then golden goal, but take off a player from each side every five minutes
    Like musical chairs?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,113
    Leon said:

    alex_ said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
    Statistically, yes.
    I witnessed an ABBA shootout at the Community Shield a few years ago and that was a much fairer way of doing it. Not sure why it didn’t become the default.
    The world is still to come round to my way of thinking of playing the penalty shootout before extra time, so that the team that lost it know they have to win the game in extra time - draw isn't enough for the losers of the penalties.

    The extra incentive to throw people at it and then the chance of them being hit on the counter would make extra time an event as opposed to a (9 time out of 10) petering out of the game.

    It probably wouldn't work, but let's try it anyway!
    Yes, I’ve advocated this for a long time.
    If we must persist with shootouts, this seems a great idea to me. I’m amazed I’ve not seen it seriously suggested before.
    Because it’s not a good idea. Not much wrong with shootouts anyway - a real test of skill under pressure.
    Well they decide a match based on an extremely narrow facet of the game - they are far from ideal as a tiebreaker.
    A golden goal after the 30 minutes of extra time please.
    Too long. Ten minutes of extra time, then golden goal, but take off a player from each side every five minutes
    I'd mix it up:

    Give each manager a paintball gun. Every five minutes they get to take a shot. If they hit a player (even one of their own), that player is removed from the field.

    It'd make it interesting - go for the easy shot of the guy near you, or take a riskier long shot to get the star forward.
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