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Why the LDs and LAB could be the main beneficiaries of compulsory voter ID – politicalbetting.com

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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Andy_JS said:

    Brendan O'Neill:

    "The mask meltdown in particular captured what is really going on here. Sections of the elite are bristling against the lifting of restrictions not because the stats suggest we are heading for another wave as deadly as the first and second – they suggest no such thing – but because they fear other people. Our faces, our breath, the noises we make. Masks will ‘provide an extra layer of defence from the person an inch from your face on the Northern line who hasn’t cleaned their teeth’, said that Indie columnist. In the future we will ‘look back in disbelief at the way we once breathed and snorted and coughed over each other, letting germs and bugs run riot’, he argued. A masked society, in which we all enjoy a modicum of protection from other people’s germ-ridden expressions, is ‘heaven’, he says. Translation: Hell is other people."

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/07/06/boris-dont-give-in-to-the-neurotic-middle-classes/

    Yet, the immune system needs a regular workout as someone posted or tweeted the other day.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    edited July 2021

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Scott_xP said:

    🗣 "What would it mean to you guys to stop it 'coming home' tomorrow night?"

    "Has it ever been home? Have you ever won it?"

    Kasper Schmeichel went there 💥

    #ENGDEN | #ITVFootball | #Euro2020
    https://twitter.com/itvfootball/status/1412501016118022144/video/1

    Kaspar! 🤣🤣🤣
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848
    stodge said:

    Pagan2 said:


    Theoretically I am all for the right to protest and we should all be in a democracy. Indeed have been on more than a few myself. However I am ambivalent about this for one simple reason. Protests never changed a damn thing in this country. All they do at best is make headlines and at worst decline into property damage and violence.

    If protests changed anything then I would be up in arms about this bill. As they don't I tend to go meh.

    I'm not sure I wholly agree.

    The anti-Poll Tax (or Community Charge if you prefer) protests were effective (NOT, I stress, the riot in London but the more peaceful and eccentric protests in rural England) when combined with a poor set of local elections which in turn fuelled more discontent which led ultimately to the overthrow of Margaret Thatcher.

    Street protest has worked in non-democratic systems (1989 Eastern Europe being a good example).

    In a democracy, it shouldn't work by itself but should be a catalyst to change within the process along with other activity.
    I don't agree the protests were effective though. What was effective was large numbers not paying it and refusing and the polling. The idiots rioting didnt change a single mind. In fact a lot of protests like for example xr are actually counterproductive and turn people against what is being protested about.

    If protests work I would fight for them tooth and nail....just I dont think they make a damn bit of difference apart from giving the protestors that "we did something" feeling
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited July 2021

    Back to covid (oh dear) but this seems to be up there with the Warwick modelling for nonsensical projections:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/data-predicts-2m-uk-summer-covid-cases-with-10m-isolating/ar-AALQxT5?ocid=msedgntp

    "Guardian analysis". It's always amusing when journalists do amateur statistics and think they've discovered something amazing that nobody else has considered.

    I wonder if they've considered the likelihood that once numbers start getting reasonably large, many of the close contacts of infected people will be... the same as the close contacts of other simultaneously infected people...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    I feel somehow you haven’t quite entered into the spirit of the thing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Pagan2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    Pagan2 said:


    Theoretically I am all for the right to protest and we should all be in a democracy. Indeed have been on more than a few myself. However I am ambivalent about this for one simple reason. Protests never changed a damn thing in this country. All they do at best is make headlines and at worst decline into property damage and violence.

    If protests changed anything then I would be up in arms about this bill. As they don't I tend to go meh.

    I'm not sure I wholly agree.

    The anti-Poll Tax (or Community Charge if you prefer) protests were effective (NOT, I stress, the riot in London but the more peaceful and eccentric protests in rural England) when combined with a poor set of local elections which in turn fuelled more discontent which led ultimately to the overthrow of Margaret Thatcher.

    Street protest has worked in non-democratic systems (1989 Eastern Europe being a good example).

    In a democracy, it shouldn't work by itself but should be a catalyst to change within the process along with other activity.
    I absolutely disagree; it’s one of the fundamental rights.

    I’m not convinced posting in PB ever changed anything. Would we be happy if government made it illegal ?
    The difference though is posting on PB doesnt inconvenience people just trying to get on with their daily lives, cause lots of street trash or end up with injured people all of which street protest tends towards
    In fact, it keeps millions of SeanTs *off* the streets....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statue.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where did come from - Donald Trump?
    Point of order. Columbus wasn't an immigrant. Nor did he ever set foot in the USA.
    So quite why he's there at all is historically questionable.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    Spain equalise!!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Quality equaliser.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    edited July 2021
    Spain equalise

    Italy 5.7
    Spain 5.9
    Draw 1.48
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    That was a great 1-2

    Quality goal there. Spain can actually finish.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    This really ought to have been the final.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Nigelb said:

    Bit unusual to detain diplomats …

    https://twitter.com/biannagolodryga/status/1412439870434430981
    Well this is an escalation…
    The FSB has detained the Estonian Consul General in St. Petersburg who they allege obtained “classified information”.

    Putin’s mate Lukashenko is also nothing but a gangster.

    An American lawyer went on a lunch date in Moscow. Now he's languishing in a jail cell in Belarus
    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/06/europe/belarus-abduction-youras-ziankovich-intl-cmd/index.html
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statue.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where did come from - Donald Trump?
    Point of order. Columbus wasn't an immigrant. Nor did he ever set foot in the USA.
    So quite why he's there at all is historically questionable.
    Well, he was a foreigner who rocked up in a new country* and started living there (somewhat later).

    You're not suggesting he was... the *wrong sort of immigrant*, are you?

    And obviously by emigrating he raised average wages. Apart for the people he enslaved, of course....

    *Not the US, but we all make mistakes...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,450
    edited July 2021
    Come on extra time.....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    alex_ said:

    Back to covid (oh dear) but this seems to be up there with the Warwick modelling for nonsensical projections:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/data-predicts-2m-uk-summer-covid-cases-with-10m-isolating/ar-AALQxT5?ocid=msedgntp

    "Guardian analysis". It's always amusing when journalists do amateur statistics and think they've discovered something amazing that nobody else has considered.

    I wonder if they've considered the likelihood that once numbers start getting reasonably large, many of the close contacts of infected people will be... the same as the close contacts of other simultaneously infected people...
    There must be some fascinating modelling/research in the way that, in different societies and groups (age?) people mix in groups and the interaction between these groups. Are they intersecting sets or islands that rarely touch etc etc...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,450
    edited July 2021

    alex_ said:

    Back to covid (oh dear) but this seems to be up there with the Warwick modelling for nonsensical projections:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/data-predicts-2m-uk-summer-covid-cases-with-10m-isolating/ar-AALQxT5?ocid=msedgntp

    "Guardian analysis". It's always amusing when journalists do amateur statistics and think they've discovered something amazing that nobody else has considered.

    I wonder if they've considered the likelihood that once numbers start getting reasonably large, many of the close contacts of infected people will be... the same as the close contacts of other simultaneously infected people...
    There must be some fascinating modelling/research in the way that, in different societies and groups (age?) people mix in groups and the interaction between these groups. Are they intersecting sets or islands that rarely touch etc etc...
    I somehow doubt the Gruardian have fired up a Nvidia 3090 cluster to run their own Tensorflow / Pytorch / JAX model....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    With a Lukaku, Ronaldo, Forsberg or Kane, Spain would walk this tournament.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    alex_ said:

    Back to covid (oh dear) but this seems to be up there with the Warwick modelling for nonsensical projections:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/data-predicts-2m-uk-summer-covid-cases-with-10m-isolating/ar-AALQxT5?ocid=msedgntp

    "Guardian analysis". It's always amusing when journalists do amateur statistics and think they've discovered something amazing that nobody else has considered.

    I wonder if they've considered the likelihood that once numbers start getting reasonably large, many of the close contacts of infected people will be... the same as the close contacts of other simultaneously infected people...
    At CNN, they called researching a story "too much" - as in researching a story to the point of discovering that there was no story - "F^&king a story"

    As in "Why are you trying to F^&k my story?"
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    dixiedean said:

    With a Lukaku, Ronaldo, Forsberg or Kane, Spain would walk this tournament.

    Or a Calvert-Lewin?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    Spain favourites to qualify.
    Italy 2.06
    Spain 1.94
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    With a Lukaku, Ronaldo, Forsberg or Kane, Spain would walk this tournament.

    Or a Calvert-Lewin?
    Do you know. I considered that, but rejected it. 10 shots. 3 on target tonight.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    alex_ said:

    Back to covid (oh dear) but this seems to be up there with the Warwick modelling for nonsensical projections:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/data-predicts-2m-uk-summer-covid-cases-with-10m-isolating/ar-AALQxT5?ocid=msedgntp

    "Guardian analysis". It's always amusing when journalists do amateur statistics and think they've discovered something amazing that nobody else has considered.

    I wonder if they've considered the likelihood that once numbers start getting reasonably large, many of the close contacts of infected people will be... the same as the close contacts of other simultaneously infected people...
    There must be some fascinating modelling/research in the way that, in different societies and groups (age?) people mix in groups and the interaction between these groups. Are they intersecting sets or islands that rarely touch etc etc...
    I somehow doubt the Gruardian have fired up a Nvidia 3090 cluster to run their own Tensorflow / Pytorch / JAX model....
    No, they've just done the "assume the same number of cases every day linearly forever until the number gets silly" thing, and also assumed Test & Trace just always contact the same number of contacts per case, and then had the cheek to say that is "predicted by the data".

    One would also have to say if Test & Trace were telling 10m people to isolate it's hard to imagine it still being in any way functional. And it would surely equate to the whole of the non-vaccinated population anyway, given the whole double vaxxed population would not have to isolate anyway just because someone else near them did, under the new regime.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Extra Time 😎
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Hooray! 30 more minutes of this.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    Dunno how you guys can watch the football when Love Island is on.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    Spain favourites to qualify.
    Italy 2.06
    Spain 1.94

    Crossover!
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    Back to covid (oh dear) but this seems to be up there with the Warwick modelling for nonsensical projections:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/data-predicts-2m-uk-summer-covid-cases-with-10m-isolating/ar-AALQxT5?ocid=msedgntp

    "Guardian analysis". It's always amusing when journalists do amateur statistics and think they've discovered something amazing that nobody else has considered.

    I wonder if they've considered the likelihood that once numbers start getting reasonably large, many of the close contacts of infected people will be... the same as the close contacts of other simultaneously infected people...
    At CNN, they called researching a story "too much" - as in researching a story to the point of discovering that there was no story - "F^&king a story"

    As in "Why are you trying to F^&k my story?"
    The norm in this country is often to spend ages researching a story, discover there's no story, and then... run 'it' anyway.

    The other obvious counter is that if 10m WERE to be forced to isolate (and do it) then that sort of number would probably have a rather large impact on the supposed 2m getting infected. In that, probably a large chunk of the potential 2m would be part of the 10m and would then never get infected in the first place.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,450
    edited July 2021
    Yet Another 120 mins for Spain.....lets hope they squeeze through. 360 mins in 3 games.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    A lot of failed chances tonight, but both goals were quality.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited July 2021

    alex_ said:

    Back to covid (oh dear) but this seems to be up there with the Warwick modelling for nonsensical projections:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/data-predicts-2m-uk-summer-covid-cases-with-10m-isolating/ar-AALQxT5?ocid=msedgntp

    "Guardian analysis". It's always amusing when journalists do amateur statistics and think they've discovered something amazing that nobody else has considered.

    I wonder if they've considered the likelihood that once numbers start getting reasonably large, many of the close contacts of infected people will be... the same as the close contacts of other simultaneously infected people...
    There must be some fascinating modelling/research in the way that, in different societies and groups (age?) people mix in groups and the interaction between these groups. Are they intersecting sets or islands that rarely touch etc etc...
    I somehow doubt the Gruardian have fired up a Nvidia 3090 cluster to run their own Tensorflow / Pytorch / JAX model....
    No, they've just done the "assume the same number of cases every day linearly forever until the number gets silly" thing, and also assumed Test & Trace just always contact the same number of contacts per case, and then had the cheek to say that is "predicted by the data".

    One would also have to say if Test & Trace were telling 10m people to isolate it's hard to imagine it still being in any way functional*. And it would surely equate to the whole of the non-vaccinated population anyway, given the whole double vaxxed population would not have to isolate anyway just because someone else near them did, under the new regime.
    They are claiming all this is going to happen before the 16th August!

    *because they'd have no staff to man the phones?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    Yet Another 120 mins for Spain.....lets hope they squeeze through. 360 mins in 3 games.

    Spain look the more dangerous opponents.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,450
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    Yet Another 120 mins for Spain.....lets hope they squeeze through. 360 mins in 3 games.

    Spain look the more dangerous opponents.
    Spain are a better match up for England, plus all that game time.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Dunno how you guys can watch the football when Love Island is on.

    Because I haven't had to watch Love Island, so I haven't had to use Tabasco as an eye drop in response.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    1m
    TELEGRAPH BUSINESS: ⁦
    @RishiSunak
    ⁩ warned over threat to National debt from rate rises #TomorrowsPapersToday


    Memo to Starmer: build up your economics team. Get them in the place where public are ready to listen when all this goes tits up with inflation and debt. Put Balls in HoL and get him as an economic spokesperson.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Back to covid (oh dear) but this seems to be up there with the Warwick modelling for nonsensical projections:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/data-predicts-2m-uk-summer-covid-cases-with-10m-isolating/ar-AALQxT5?ocid=msedgntp

    "Guardian analysis". It's always amusing when journalists do amateur statistics and think they've discovered something amazing that nobody else has considered.

    I wonder if they've considered the likelihood that once numbers start getting reasonably large, many of the close contacts of infected people will be... the same as the close contacts of other simultaneously infected people...
    There must be some fascinating modelling/research in the way that, in different societies and groups (age?) people mix in groups and the interaction between these groups. Are they intersecting sets or islands that rarely touch etc etc...
    I somehow doubt the Gruardian have fired up a Nvidia 3090 cluster to run their own Tensorflow / Pytorch / JAX model....
    No, they've just done the "assume the same number of cases every day linearly forever until the number gets silly" thing, and also assumed Test & Trace just always contact the same number of contacts per case, and then had the cheek to say that is "predicted by the data".

    One would also have to say if Test & Trace were telling 10m people to isolate it's hard to imagine it still being in any way functional*. And it would surely equate to the whole of the non-vaccinated population anyway, given the whole double vaxxed population would not have to isolate anyway just because someone else near them did, under the new regime.
    They are claiming all this is going to happen before the 16th August!

    *because they'd have no staff to man the phones?
    Good grief, you're right, I hadn't clocked that
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    alex_ said:

    Back to covid (oh dear) but this seems to be up there with the Warwick modelling for nonsensical projections:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/data-predicts-2m-uk-summer-covid-cases-with-10m-isolating/ar-AALQxT5?ocid=msedgntp

    "Guardian analysis". It's always amusing when journalists do amateur statistics and think they've discovered something amazing that nobody else has considered.

    I wonder if they've considered the likelihood that once numbers start getting reasonably large, many of the close contacts of infected people will be... the same as the close contacts of other simultaneously infected people...
    There must be some fascinating modelling/research in the way that, in different societies and groups (age?) people mix in groups and the interaction between these groups. Are they intersecting sets or islands that rarely touch etc etc...
    I somehow doubt the Gruardian have fired up a Nvidia 3090 cluster to run their own Tensorflow / Pytorch / JAX model....
    No, they've just done the "assume the same number of cases every day linearly forever until the number gets silly" thing, and also assumed Test & Trace just always contact the same number of contacts per case, and then had the cheek to say that is "predicted by the data".

    One would also have to say if Test & Trace were telling 10m people to isolate it's hard to imagine it still being in any way functional. And it would surely equate to the whole of the non-vaccinated population anyway, given the whole double vaxxed population would not have to isolate anyway just because someone else near them did, under the new regime.
    Amateurs.

    I just chucked a 4th order polynomial trend line at the case data.

    This time next year, we will be on 350 million cases per day in the UK.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    1m
    TELEGRAPH BUSINESS: ⁦
    @RishiSunak
    ⁩ warned over threat to National debt from rate rises #TomorrowsPapersToday


    Memo to Starmer: build up your economics team. Get them in the place where public are ready to listen when all this goes tits up with inflation and debt. Put Balls in HoL and get him as an economic spokesperson.

    Do you seriously think the public is going to get concerned about debt and turn to Labour?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,450
    edited July 2021


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    1m
    TELEGRAPH BUSINESS: ⁦
    @RishiSunak
    ⁩ warned over threat to National debt from rate rises #TomorrowsPapersToday


    Memo to Starmer: build up your economics team. Get them in the place where public are ready to listen when all this goes tits up with inflation and debt. Put Balls in HoL and get him as an economic spokesperson.

    I was astonished to hear from one of economic Biden advisors saying debt / borrowing doesn't matter, we have solved inflation, can borrow really big and worry about it all in 15 years.

    It really was akin to Brown abolished Boom and Bust stuff.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,887
    Has any team ever created as many chances over the course of a Euros or world Cup as the Spanish have, they're tourney top scorers but they've failed to convert so many chances
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    edited July 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427

    Dunno how you guys can watch the football when Love Island is on.

    Because I haven't had to watch Love Island, so I haven't had to use Tabasco as an eye drop in response.
    Whatever floats your boat mate, I'm not going to judge
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    edited July 2021


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    1m
    TELEGRAPH BUSINESS: ⁦
    @RishiSunak
    ⁩ warned over threat to National debt from rate rises #TomorrowsPapersToday


    Memo to Starmer: build up your economics team. Get them in the place where public are ready to listen when all this goes tits up with inflation and debt. Put Balls in HoL and get him as an economic spokesperson.

    I was astonished to hear from of Biden advisors saying debt / borrowing doesn't matter, we have solved inflation, can borrow really big and worry about it all in 15 years.

    It really was akin to Brown abolished Boom and Bust stuff.
    I hear the same from some lefty friends. Just print money. If the Tories can, then we can print more.

    I did point out that QE redistributes wealth to those with real assets and away from the poor, but that only briefly stops them.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Italy very lucky not to concede then.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    1m
    TELEGRAPH BUSINESS: ⁦
    @RishiSunak
    ⁩ warned over threat to National debt from rate rises #TomorrowsPapersToday


    Memo to Starmer: build up your economics team. Get them in the place where public are ready to listen when all this goes tits up with inflation and debt. Put Balls in HoL and get him as an economic spokesperson.

    Do you seriously think the public is going to get concerned about debt and turn to Labour?
    If it appears to get too troublesome they won't care who they turn too. Won't be a concern for a while yet though.

    Italy playing for penalties
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,450
    Cynical dirty fouling Italians....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Spain seem the better team to be honest.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,301
    Fucking hells bells, this Ulsterman is showing he really is so dense light bends around him.

    Amazing that every member of the Italian team sang its National Anthem whereas every single member of the Spanish team remained totally silent. Not one sang the Spanish Anthem!

    https://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1412486514513166338
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Fucking hells bells, this Ulsterman is showing he really is so dense light bends around him.

    Amazing that every member of the Italian team sang its National Anthem whereas every single member of the Spanish team remained totally silent. Not one sang the Spanish Anthem!

    https://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1412486514513166338

    Lol
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,450
    Sad to see the Italians resort to trying to foul away the game time just to get to penalties.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    1m
    TELEGRAPH BUSINESS: ⁦
    @RishiSunak
    ⁩ warned over threat to National debt from rate rises #TomorrowsPapersToday


    Memo to Starmer: build up your economics team. Get them in the place where public are ready to listen when all this goes tits up with inflation and debt. Put Balls in HoL and get him as an economic spokesperson.

    I was astonished to hear from one of economic Biden advisors saying debt / borrowing doesn't matter, we have solved inflation, can borrow really big and worry about it all in 15 years.

    It really was akin to Brown abolished Boom and Bust stuff.
    Why are you astonished - remember, that was the Obama solution to 2008....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,165

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    It couldn't have been totally unusual for a detective in California in the 1970s not to carry a gun, since otherwise viewers wouldn't have taken Columbo seriously so to speak.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,450
    edited July 2021

    Fucking hells bells, this Ulsterman is showing he really is so dense light bends around him.

    Amazing that every member of the Italian team sang its National Anthem whereas every single member of the Spanish team remained totally silent. Not one sang the Spanish Anthem!

    https://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1412486514513166338

    Maybe they just didn't know the words ;-)

    Given how high profile Spain as a nation, how can you not know the fact about the Spanish national athem, given you must have seen this before?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited July 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    It couldn't have been totally unusual for a detective in California in the 1970s not to carry a gun, since otherwise viewers wouldn't have taken Columbo seriously so to speak.
    There was a time not *that* long ago when guns in America really weren't ubiquitous and central to almost everything that happens, whether within the criminal underworld or without. Was there any particular point that one can pinpoint that that changed?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Andy_JS said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    It couldn't have been totally unusual for a detective in California in the 1970s not to carry a gun, since otherwise viewers wouldn't have taken Columbo seriously so to speak.
    Shooting the bad guy is far too simple a plot device. Not carrying a gun makes for a better show.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Fucking hells bells, this Ulsterman is showing he really is so dense light bends around him.

    Amazing that every member of the Italian team sang its National Anthem whereas every single member of the Spanish team remained totally silent. Not one sang the Spanish Anthem!

    https://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1412486514513166338

    Maybe they just didn't know the words ;-)

    Given how high profile Spain as a nation, how can you not know the fact about the Spanish national athem, given you must have seen this before?
    Or at least stop and think about it (look it up on wiki) before jumping it head first.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,450
    alex_ said:

    Fucking hells bells, this Ulsterman is showing he really is so dense light bends around him.

    Amazing that every member of the Italian team sang its National Anthem whereas every single member of the Spanish team remained totally silent. Not one sang the Spanish Anthem!

    https://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1412486514513166338

    Maybe they just didn't know the words ;-)

    Given how high profile Spain as a nation, how can you not know the fact about the Spanish national athem, given you must have seen this before?
    Or at least stop and think about it (look it up on wiki) before jumping it head first.
    Too many tweets and all that.....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,301

    Fucking hells bells, this Ulsterman is showing he really is so dense light bends around him.

    Amazing that every member of the Italian team sang its National Anthem whereas every single member of the Spanish team remained totally silent. Not one sang the Spanish Anthem!

    https://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1412486514513166338

    Maybe they just didn't know the words ;-)

    Given how high profile Spain as a nation, how can you not know the fact about the Spanish national athem, given you must have seen this before?
    He's as dumb as Scottish football fans.

    The Scottish Football Association has hit out at the "disgraceful" booing of the Liechtenstein national anthem.

    A section of Scotland fans jeered the anthem - which has the same tune as God Save The Queen - before their side's 2-1 victory in the Euro 2012 qualifier.

    SFA acting chief executive George Peat said he was "embarrassed" by the booing at Hampden on Tuesday.

    "I apologise unreservedly to our visitors for the crass reaction to their anthem," said Peat.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11234116
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Few weeks ago we saw UK as an outlier re cases.

    Now delta has taken hold in Europe, the growth looks similar if not steeper than UK has experienced.

    I’m sure this will be shared widely by those sharing the previous one too.



    https://twitter.com/ThatRyanChap/status/1412517834706591745?s=20
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    alex_ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    It couldn't have been totally unusual for a detective in California in the 1970s not to carry a gun, since otherwise viewers wouldn't have taken Columbo seriously so to speak.
    There was a time not *that* long ago when guns in America really weren't ubiquitous and central to almost everything that happens, whether within the criminal underworld or without. Was there any particular point that one can pinpoint that that changed?
    Are you asking about television? Otherwise, Al Capone says hello. Before then the Wild West.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    Coincidentally, I watched the last episode of the Ken Burns documentary only 2 nights ago.
    The US made a much better fist of scarpering this time.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477


    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    1m
    TELEGRAPH BUSINESS: ⁦
    @RishiSunak
    ⁩ warned over threat to National debt from rate rises #TomorrowsPapersToday


    Memo to Starmer: build up your economics team. Get them in the place where public are ready to listen when all this goes tits up with inflation and debt. Put Balls in HoL and get him as an economic spokesperson.

    Do you seriously think the public is going to get concerned about debt and turn to Labour?
    If it appears to get too troublesome they won't care who they turn too. Won't be a concern for a while yet though.

    Italy playing for penalties
    Yup.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,262
    GOP 2024 presidential primary poll

    DeSantis 21%
    Pence 14%
    Trump Jr 7%
    Haley 6%
    Cruz 6%
    Romney 4%
    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412423455157465105?s=20
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    Coincidentally, I watched the last episode of the Ken Burns documentary only 2 nights ago.
    The US made a much better fist of scarpering this time.
    There were only a couple of hundred troops in Saigon at the end, much the same in Kabul. It is the locals who won't get out.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,262
    edited July 2021
    2022 midterms congressional poll

    GOP 47%
    Democrats 46%

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412424837189058571?s=20
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    It couldn't have been totally unusual for a detective in California in the 1970s not to carry a gun, since otherwise viewers wouldn't have taken Columbo seriously so to speak.
    There was a time not *that* long ago when guns in America really weren't ubiquitous and central to almost everything that happens, whether within the criminal underworld or without. Was there any particular point that one can pinpoint that that changed?
    Are you asking about television? Otherwise, Al Capone says hello. Before then the Wild West.
    Yes, and maybe i'm wrong, but i think that the prevailing trend for many years was actually towards gun control. Of course now it's further away than ever, and actually the more realistic outcome is that mass ownership of guns might actually trigger some sort of civil war.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    Still not clear who Denmark will face..
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    Coincidentally, I watched the last episode of the Ken Burns documentary only 2 nights ago.
    The US made a much better fist of scarpering this time.
    There were only a couple of hundred troops in Saigon at the end, much the same in Kabul. It is the locals who won't get out.
    Although the Americans left Vietnam when on the verge of defeat. Whereas in Afghanistan it's more i think that they've just decided they can't win. That's not to say that their departure won't have seriously bad consequences.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Fenman said:

    Still not clear who Denmark will face..

    There's only a third place match in the World Cup ;)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,165
    These two sides are too-evenly matched to produce a result in normal play.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    I quite like this Welsh substitute for Spain- Rodri.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,262
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, President Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the final Vietnam withdrawal in 1975 and the fall of Saigon.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    It couldn't have been totally unusual for a detective in California in the 1970s not to carry a gun, since otherwise viewers wouldn't have taken Columbo seriously so to speak.
    There was a time not *that* long ago when guns in America really weren't ubiquitous and central to almost everything that happens, whether within the criminal underworld or without. Was there any particular point that one can pinpoint that that changed?
    Are you asking about television? Otherwise, Al Capone says hello. Before then the Wild West.
    Yes, and maybe i'm wrong, but i think that the prevailing trend for many years was actually towards gun control. Of course now it's further away than ever, and actually the more realistic outcome is that mass ownership of guns might actually trigger some sort of civil war.
    Statistics must be available on guns held, gun homicides (and suicides) and so on.

    You'd be worried about automatic weapons but even there, tommy guns were common after the First World War, if not before.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Fenman said:

    Still not clear who Denmark will face..

    England tomorrow. Pay attention!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,262
    Double vaccinated Brits will be able to fly to amber list nations without quarantining on return from July 19th

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1412522475901100034?s=20
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,353
    Fenman said:

    Still not clear who Denmark will face..

    Is there a third place game?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Rather like the US in Afghanistan, that sort of petered out.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited July 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Double vaccinated Brits will be able to fly to amber list nations without quarantining on return from July 19th

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1412522475901100034?s=20

    Have they made any progress on persuading France to let us in yet?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,165
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    Britain and America have been interested in Afghanistan for 20 years and all that happened was that our soldiers got killed and injured. We couldn't continue with that.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    What a match!
    Don't fancy Denmark's chance against either.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    geoffw said:

    What a match!
    Don't fancy Denmark's chance against either.

    Both Denmark and England have better strikers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the Vietnam withdrawal.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    I don't think so. It is Trump that set the withdrawal timetable, Biden just stuck to it. The Taliban will have Kabul by Christmas, likely sooner.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,450

    Few weeks ago we saw UK as an outlier re cases.

    Now delta has taken hold in Europe, the growth looks similar if not steeper than UK has experienced.

    I’m sure this will be shared widely by those sharing the previous one too.



    https://twitter.com/ThatRyanChap/status/1412517834706591745?s=20

    Its a good job half of Europe won't be heading to the likes of Spain, Portugal and Greece for their summer holidays....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Good sportsmanship between the captains and keepers over the penalties. Real respect for each other.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575

    Few weeks ago we saw UK as an outlier re cases.

    Now delta has taken hold in Europe, the growth looks similar if not steeper than UK has experienced.

    I’m sure this will be shared widely by those sharing the previous one too.



    https://twitter.com/ThatRyanChap/status/1412517834706591745?s=20

    Its a good job half of Europe won't be heading to the likes of Spain, Portugal and Greece for their summer holidays....
    Bread roll capital of the world.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,301

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Spain had a really bad penalty record prior to the Swiss match, I think they had missed six in a row.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,262
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    On the subject of Afghanistan, it really does look like the last couple of months of South Vietnam.

    The world isn't very interested.
    If it is then that would be disastrous for the Democrats, Ford of course lost his re election attempt in 1976 after the Vietnam withdrawal.

    However I think the Afghan government and military should hold Kabul at least even if much of the rest of the country falls to the Taliban. Of course the original aim of the 2001 invasion was not to remove the Taliban, who had been in power for 5 years prior but to remove Al Qaeda from the country and kill Bin Laden, both of which aims were achieved.

    Longer term a deal will likely have to be done to give the Taliban some role in the government of the country in return for committing to help keep Al Qaeda and ISIS out
    I don't think so. It is Trump that set the withdrawal timetable, Biden just stuck to it. The Taliban will have Kabul by Christmas, likely sooner.
    Then expect Biden and Harris to be defeated in 2024, Americans do not like losers and military defeats, whether fair or not.

    One poll today already has Trump 49% Harris 45%, though another has Harris ahead

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412424451933847561?s=20

    https://twitter.com/PollTrackerUSA/status/1412423949116481545?s=20

    Plus if Kabul fell to the Taliban and they protected Al Qaeda again then we would have no choice but to invade again anyway
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,301
    Italy’s shoot-out record in major competition is four wins, seven losses. Spain have won six, and lost four. One of those Spanish wins was the scrappy affair against the Swiss in the last round, a fact that may buoy Italy, because no team has ever won two shoot-outs at a Euros final.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Spain miss a lot of penalties.
    Although Italy just missed.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,947
    HYUFD said:

    Double vaccinated Brits will be able to fly to amber list nations without quarantining on return from July 19th

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1412522475901100034?s=20

    Now all we need to do is get rid of those idiotic, rip-off tests.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,450
    All the hugging going on in the footy, hopefully nobody gets pinged for COVID....
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Everyone thought Columbo was an idiot. But it was all an act and he was just reeling them to collect the evidence.
    Back to the statues.

    So the plan is to tear down statues of an Italian immigrant and replace it with statues of non-Italian rich white man who plays an Italian origin *policeman* as a *hero*? A hero who arrests women and minorities and does so without any real world US police behaviour?

    Where this did come from - Donald Trump?
    real world US police behaviour meaning kneeling on people's necks?
    And shooting people for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area..... We never see Columbo or any policeman on the show doing that.
    Columbo didn't carry a gun. It almost got him in trouble in one episode.
    Contrast that to the real world - where an ex-special forces guy fresh out Afghanistan failed his probation as a cop for not being... militaristic enough in his police work....
    It couldn't have been totally unusual for a detective in California in the 1970s not to carry a gun, since otherwise viewers wouldn't have taken Columbo seriously so to speak.
    There was a time not *that* long ago when guns in America really weren't ubiquitous and central to almost everything that happens, whether within the criminal underworld or without. Was there any particular point that one can pinpoint that that changed?
    Are you asking about television? Otherwise, Al Capone says hello. Before then the Wild West.
    Yes, and maybe i'm wrong, but i think that the prevailing trend for many years was actually towards gun control. Of course now it's further away than ever, and actually the more realistic outcome is that mass ownership of guns might actually trigger some sort of civil war.
    Statistics must be available on guns held, gun homicides (and suicides) and so on.

    You'd be worried about automatic weapons but even there, tommy guns were common after the First World War, if not before.
    This is actually an astonishing chart!

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/249740/percentage-of-households-in-the-united-states-owning-a-firearm/
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637

    To qualify (via penalties):-

    Italy 1.93
    Spain 2.06

    Not really clear what that is based on.

    Going first is an advantage?
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