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Why the LDs and LAB could be the main beneficiaries of compulsory voter ID – politicalbetting.com

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  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    rkrkrk said:

    28k....37....406

    Yep... not great at all. My prediction at start of the month was that we would get to 300/day by end of June... but I clearly underestimated it.

    Remember also that the hospitalizations figure is actually for last week, there's a significant delay in reporting.
    England which is a bit more up to date reported 390 admissions day before yesterday... so we have potentially broken 500 admission/day for UK already.
    I did project the other day on here that we would get to 100,000 cases a day. Not everyone universally agreed with me. I do hope that I am wrong...
    I thought you said it would get to 100k cases a day by last week?

    When do you think it will get to 100k by? And if it does without causing hospitalisations and deaths because the link has been broken then why should we care?
    I imagine the approx 20,000 people who get long Covid will care. Or do they not matter?
    Ah 'long Covid' the last gasp desperate claim of the Cult of Zero Covid.

    No they don't matter, not enough to strip away people's civil liberties. People get sick, that's what the NHS is there to treat, we don't lose our civil liberties to prevent people being potentially ill in the future.

    Especially since the claims of 'long Covid' post-vaccinations are extremely dubious at best. If vaccines have broken the link between Covid and hospitalisations and deaths, then what reason is there to think that people will still get 'long Covid'? 🤔
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited July 2021
    The paying people "properly" to isolate is also a bit of a red herring. There are some people who because of income / work will be forced back to work, but government own advisors 6 months ago said only 20% of people are properly isolating......people are doing a few days, feel fine and start popping out to pick up stuff from the supermarket etc. Paying isolation won't stop that level of mass corner cutting.

    And it will be even lower now because people will have had one jab and think well it can't be me.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,283

    rkrkrk said:

    28k....37....406

    Yep... not great at all. My prediction at start of the month was that we would get to 300/day by end of June... but I clearly underestimated it.

    Remember also that the hospitalizations figure is actually for last week, there's a significant delay in reporting.
    England which is a bit more up to date reported 390 admissions day before yesterday... so we have potentially broken 500 admission/day for UK already.
    I did project the other day on here that we would get to 100,000 cases a day. Not everyone universally agreed with me. I do hope that I am wrong...
    I thought you said it would get to 100k cases a day by last week?

    When do you think it will get to 100k by? And if it does without causing hospitalisations and deaths because the link has been broken then why should we care?
    I imagine the approx 20,000 people who get long Covid will care. Or do they not matter?
    Ah 'long Covid' the last gasp desperate claim of the Cult of Zero Covid.

    No they don't matter, not enough to strip away people's civil liberties. People get sick, that's what the NHS is there to treat, we don't lose our civil liberties to prevent people being potentially ill in the future.

    Especially since the claims of 'long Covid' post-vaccinations are extremely dubious at best. If vaccines have broken the link between Covid and hospitalisations and deaths, then what reason is there to think that people will still get 'long Covid'? 🤔
    Compassionate as ever eh, Phil?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    rkrkrk said:

    28k....37....406

    Yep... not great at all. My prediction at start of the month was that we would get to 300/day by end of June... but I clearly underestimated it.

    Remember also that the hospitalizations figure is actually for last week, there's a significant delay in reporting.
    England which is a bit more up to date reported 390 admissions day before yesterday... so we have potentially broken 500 admission/day for UK already.
    I did project the other day on here that we would get to 100,000 cases a day. Not everyone universally agreed with me. I do hope that I am wrong...
    I thought you said it would get to 100k cases a day by last week?

    When do you think it will get to 100k by? And if it does without causing hospitalisations and deaths because the link has been broken then why should we care?
    I imagine the approx 20,000 people who get long Covid will care. Or do they not matter?
    Ah 'long Covid' the last gasp desperate claim of the Cult of Zero Covid.

    No they don't matter, not enough to strip away people's civil liberties. People get sick, that's what the NHS is there to treat, we don't lose our civil liberties to prevent people being potentially ill in the future.

    Especially since the claims of 'long Covid' post-vaccinations are extremely dubious at best. If vaccines have broken the link between Covid and hospitalisations and deaths, then what reason is there to think that people will still get 'long Covid'? 🤔
    Compassionate as ever eh, Phil?
    Indeed. 'Compassion' isn't a reason to steal people's civil liberties.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    rcs1000 said:

    I think it is time we all looked to Malta for Covid vaccination success. They have achieved the impossible.

    According to their own government website, they are the only country where the number of people who are fully vaccinated (72.5%) exceeds the number who have received at least one dose (72.1%).

    Edit to add: the data is easier to see on the EU page - https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#national-ref-tab

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    edited July 2021

    Russia reports 737 new coronavirus deaths, the biggest one-day increase on record, and 23,378 new cases

    Considering their own statisticians say things in previous waves were a lot more deadly than the official figures, that must be really really bad now.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Daily whinge on domestic matters: Year 6 daughter's leavers disco cancelled. It's after July 19th, but the school couldn't face down the pressure from parents.
    Because some parents are terrified, no one is allowed to have a childhood.

    Wife has offered to host a party for the year 6s at our house. But has made clear to me that if certain children catch covid, we will all be self-isolating - because those children's parents will be explicit to the authorities who the children have been socialising with.

    I admire your wife's can do attitude and such a shame some people don't want covid to end
    So do I. That's one of the many reasons I married her. :smile:
    We'll do this one. But to some extent we're having to pick and choose who the girls socialise with because we know how righteous some parents are going to be if anyone tests positive. These parents are generally those who have been most assiduous in denying their children any sort of a life for the last year and a half.
    Eh ? Surely the parents who are worried about Covid won't let their kids attend your party ?
    It's a bit different but I had a few friends not wanting to attend my 40th due to fear of the 'rona :D
    Well that would be sadder, but manageable. My worry is that we'll have 15 pre-teen girls here, one will subsequently test positive, and it'll be one whose parents are the sort to Do The Right Thing and all fifteen girls will then have to do another ten days house arrest.

    It's a small risk. I reckon three quarters of the parents would quietly pretend their child hadn't been there at all. But I reckon at least a quarter would dutifully dob everyone else in.
    I believe I have previously mentioned my theory that if Operation Sealion had worked,

    1/3rd of the UK would have fought to the death
    1/3rd wouldn't have noticed and
    1/3rd would have queued round the block to join up, get an arm band and boss people about - on behalf of the Germans....
    I'm most interested in the middle third, to be honest. I think you'reexactly right. "No, no, I don't watch the news..."
    Unless the Germans had actually interrupted the football.....
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,214

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    28k....37....406

    Yep... not great at all. My prediction at start of the month was that we would get to 300/day by end of June... but I clearly underestimated it.

    Remember also that the hospitalizations figure is actually for last week, there's a significant delay in reporting.
    England which is a bit more up to date reported 390 admissions day before yesterday... so we have potentially broken 500 admission/day for UK already.
    88% of people in hospital are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated. The people going into hospital are majority those who are refusing the vaccine, this was a known outcome of any unlockdown as we saw in Israel. What do you propose to avoid this outcome?
    If a + b = 88%, can we say that either a or b is over 50%?
    We've seen previous breakdowns of this figure were the actually unvaccinated make up a much larger proportion than the partially vaccinated, additionally we aren't halting the vaccine programme. Either way, you haven't answered the question, the vast majority of people in hospital now and for the foreseeable future are those who have said no to the vaccine. What do you propose we do?
    Where is your evidence hospitals are full of refusers?

    The answer was to vaccinate everyone, wait 2 weeks, and then lift restrictions.

    But it's too late for that now. We are committed to an unnecessary wave. The only question is how big it will be.
    A SAGE member said it this morning that 88% of people currently in hospital in England are unvaccinated or only partially vaccinated. Currently the latter group are just in a waiting period of getting their second dose and most of them could probably walk up and get one if they tried after 3/4 weeks.

    How do you vaccinate everyone? Send in the army China style, hold them down and jab them, then do it again three weeks later?
    I keep trying to tell you, the partially protected are a massive chunk of population. Vaccine refusers are a small, small proportion.

    Semple defined full protection as 4 weeks from vaccine.
    But whatever it is, it's not indefinite and every day we get closer to it. Vaccine refusers will be around 5m in total. The number of first doses is now demand limited, it has been for the last couple of weeks.

    All of the scientists are fairly united that unlockdown in autumn would be a disaster as the exit wave would be horrific for the NHS combined with what is likely to be a pretty bad flu season as we don't know what to put in the jab this year.

    So once again, I'm asking the question, what are you proposing we do?
    Well I would guess try to slow transmission through mask wearing (most obviously in schools, public transport etc.), properly fund isolation, speed up vaccination by making it more convenient and maybe even paying people, put money into local public health teams... nothing particularly revolutionary to be honest!

    But there's no denying this should have been done earlier. The govt have obviously let this get out of control again, and are going to get a whole bunch of people infected before they had full vaccine protection rather than afterwards.
    Make vaccination more convenient....how much more convenient than now can it be? There are 1000s and 1000s of centres throughout the country, open 8am to 8pm, 7 days a week. There is online booking, phone booking, GP led, On top of there, there are walk up no question centres mobile vans, weekly mass jabathons. All free of charge.

    What specific extra measures could they do?
    Well convenient is probably one they should have done earlier... it may be very good now I don't know, for a while it certainly wasn't so easy. Family member has been told not until end of August.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171

    rkrkrk said:

    28k....37....406

    Yep... not great at all. My prediction at start of the month was that we would get to 300/day by end of June... but I clearly underestimated it.

    Remember also that the hospitalizations figure is actually for last week, there's a significant delay in reporting.
    England which is a bit more up to date reported 390 admissions day before yesterday... so we have potentially broken 500 admission/day for UK already.
    I did project the other day on here that we would get to 100,000 cases a day. Not everyone universally agreed with me. I do hope that I am wrong...
    I thought you said it would get to 100k cases a day by last week?

    When do you think it will get to 100k by? And if it does without causing hospitalisations and deaths because the link has been broken then why should we care?
    I imagine the approx 20,000 people who get long Covid will care. Or do they not matter?
    Your arguments are poor.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    rcs1000 said:

    I think it is time we all looked to Malta for Covid vaccination success. They have achieved the impossible.

    According to their own government website, they are the only country where the number of people who are fully vaccinated (72.5%) exceeds the number who have received at least one dose (72.1%).

    Edit to add: the data is easier to see on the EU page - https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#national-ref-tab

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%
    Those figures have thrown a Grenada in the southern Spanish drive, though.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    rcs1000 said:

    @MaxPB - I think vaccine refusers could well be less than 5 million. There are - give or take - 58 million adults in the UK.

    5 million refuseniks is a 92% uptake of adults. Iceland is at 89% today and first jabs don't appear to have slowed down. If vaccination is a requirement for travel, then we might well end up at 95% - in which case it's only about 3 million refuseniks.

    I think there's about 53m eligible people at the moment, we're at 46m but rapidly slowed down our first doses and not because of supply, it's pretty much the demand wall. We will slowly hit 48m over the next 2-4 weeks and then maybe another million over the rest of the summer. It won't be until the winter when the government goes back into overdrive for boosters that we'll see any significant increase. You can now literally book a vaccine for the next day, walk into pretty much any vaccine centre and get a first dose of Pfizer or Moderna there and then and most places are doing seconds after 4 weeks so they don't have doses sitting in the fridge going bad.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited July 2021
    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    28k....37....406

    Yep... not great at all. My prediction at start of the month was that we would get to 300/day by end of June... but I clearly underestimated it.

    Remember also that the hospitalizations figure is actually for last week, there's a significant delay in reporting.
    England which is a bit more up to date reported 390 admissions day before yesterday... so we have potentially broken 500 admission/day for UK already.
    88% of people in hospital are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated. The people going into hospital are majority those who are refusing the vaccine, this was a known outcome of any unlockdown as we saw in Israel. What do you propose to avoid this outcome?
    If a + b = 88%, can we say that either a or b is over 50%?
    We've seen previous breakdowns of this figure were the actually unvaccinated make up a much larger proportion than the partially vaccinated, additionally we aren't halting the vaccine programme. Either way, you haven't answered the question, the vast majority of people in hospital now and for the foreseeable future are those who have said no to the vaccine. What do you propose we do?
    Where is your evidence hospitals are full of refusers?

    The answer was to vaccinate everyone, wait 2 weeks, and then lift restrictions.

    But it's too late for that now. We are committed to an unnecessary wave. The only question is how big it will be.
    A SAGE member said it this morning that 88% of people currently in hospital in England are unvaccinated or only partially vaccinated. Currently the latter group are just in a waiting period of getting their second dose and most of them could probably walk up and get one if they tried after 3/4 weeks.

    How do you vaccinate everyone? Send in the army China style, hold them down and jab them, then do it again three weeks later?
    I keep trying to tell you, the partially protected are a massive chunk of population. Vaccine refusers are a small, small proportion.

    Semple defined full protection as 4 weeks from vaccine.
    But whatever it is, it's not indefinite and every day we get closer to it. Vaccine refusers will be around 5m in total. The number of first doses is now demand limited, it has been for the last couple of weeks.

    All of the scientists are fairly united that unlockdown in autumn would be a disaster as the exit wave would be horrific for the NHS combined with what is likely to be a pretty bad flu season as we don't know what to put in the jab this year.

    So once again, I'm asking the question, what are you proposing we do?
    Well I would guess try to slow transmission through mask wearing (most obviously in schools, public transport etc.), properly fund isolation, speed up vaccination by making it more convenient and maybe even paying people, put money into local public health teams... nothing particularly revolutionary to be honest!

    But there's no denying this should have been done earlier. The govt have obviously let this get out of control again, and are going to get a whole bunch of people infected before they had full vaccine protection rather than afterwards.
    Make vaccination more convenient....how much more convenient than now can it be? There are 1000s and 1000s of centres throughout the country, open 8am to 8pm, 7 days a week. There is online booking, phone booking, GP led, On top of there, there are walk up no question centres mobile vans, weekly mass jabathons. All free of charge.

    What specific extra measures could they do?
    Well convenient is probably one they should have done earlier... it may be very good now I don't know, for a while it certainly wasn't so easy. Family member has been told not until end of August.
    After the initial month or so when they built capacity, it really was....they were maxed out jabbing, supply was the limiting factor week after week after week. They couldn't do anymore than they were doing. It was that convenient. You hear virtually no other story than wow that was well run, so quick and easy.

    They couldn't do mass walk ups because there was no extra jabs to be had.

    August for a first jab?...are they looking online? Because there is now spare capacity....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    rcs1000 said:

    @MaxPB - I think vaccine refusers could well be less than 5 million. There are - give or take - 58 million adults in the UK.

    5 million refuseniks is a 92% uptake of adults. Iceland is at 89% today and first jabs don't appear to have slowed down. If vaccination is a requirement for travel, then we might well end up at 95% - in which case it's only about 3 million refuseniks.

    95% would be an amazing achievement for a country of 68 million.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928

    rcs1000 said:

    I think it is time we all looked to Malta for Covid vaccination success. They have achieved the impossible.

    According to their own government website, they are the only country where the number of people who are fully vaccinated (72.5%) exceeds the number who have received at least one dose (72.1%).

    Edit to add: the data is easier to see on the EU page - https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#national-ref-tab

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%
    I take it back. It appears that Malta is not the only country to have achieved the impossible. Indeed, it's clear that Gibraltar's impossible is even more impossible than Malta's.

    It's also very clear that if you want Covid vaccination success, you need the letters "lta" consecutively in your place name.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    To counter @Leon europhilia here is a sunset scene from the Isle of Wight. St Helens Fort and to the top left is one of the world's most luxurious Superyachts. Le Grand Bleu, famously lost in a bet by Roman Abramovitch. How the other half holiday, 5500 tons, 108 metres and with a landing craft that takes a 4x4 as well as a 45 foot tender and helipad.


  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    28k....37....406

    Yep... not great at all. My prediction at start of the month was that we would get to 300/day by end of June... but I clearly underestimated it.

    Remember also that the hospitalizations figure is actually for last week, there's a significant delay in reporting.
    England which is a bit more up to date reported 390 admissions day before yesterday... so we have potentially broken 500 admission/day for UK already.
    88% of people in hospital are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated. The people going into hospital are majority those who are refusing the vaccine, this was a known outcome of any unlockdown as we saw in Israel. What do you propose to avoid this outcome?
    If a + b = 88%, can we say that either a or b is over 50%?
    We've seen previous breakdowns of this figure were the actually unvaccinated make up a much larger proportion than the partially vaccinated, additionally we aren't halting the vaccine programme. Either way, you haven't answered the question, the vast majority of people in hospital now and for the foreseeable future are those who have said no to the vaccine. What do you propose we do?
    Where is your evidence hospitals are full of refusers?

    The answer was to vaccinate everyone, wait 2 weeks, and then lift restrictions.

    But it's too late for that now. We are committed to an unnecessary wave. The only question is how big it will be.
    A SAGE member said it this morning that 88% of people currently in hospital in England are unvaccinated or only partially vaccinated. Currently the latter group are just in a waiting period of getting their second dose and most of them could probably walk up and get one if they tried after 3/4 weeks.

    How do you vaccinate everyone? Send in the army China style, hold them down and jab them, then do it again three weeks later?
    I keep trying to tell you, the partially protected are a massive chunk of population. Vaccine refusers are a small, small proportion.

    Semple defined full protection as 4 weeks from vaccine.
    But whatever it is, it's not indefinite and every day we get closer to it. Vaccine refusers will be around 5m in total. The number of first doses is now demand limited, it has been for the last couple of weeks.

    All of the scientists are fairly united that unlockdown in autumn would be a disaster as the exit wave would be horrific for the NHS combined with what is likely to be a pretty bad flu season as we don't know what to put in the jab this year.

    So once again, I'm asking the question, what are you proposing we do?
    Well I would guess try to slow transmission through mask wearing (most obviously in schools, public transport etc.), properly fund isolation, speed up vaccination by making it more convenient and maybe even paying people, put money into local public health teams... nothing particularly revolutionary to be honest!

    But there's no denying this should have been done earlier. The govt have obviously let this get out of control again, and are going to get a whole bunch of people infected before they had full vaccine protection rather than afterwards.
    Make vaccination more convenient....how much more convenient than now can it be? There are 1000s and 1000s of centres throughout the country, open 8am to 8pm, 7 days a week. There is online booking, phone booking, GP led, On top of there, there are walk up no question centres mobile vans, weekly mass jabathons. All free of charge.

    What specific extra measures could they do?
    Well convenient is probably one they should have done earlier... it may be very good now I don't know, for a while it certainly wasn't so easy. Family member has been told not until end of August.
    For a first dose? They should call the number and get that pushed up immediately, all first doses are supposed to be done before July 19th.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I think it is time we all looked to Malta for Covid vaccination success. They have achieved the impossible.

    According to their own government website, they are the only country where the number of people who are fully vaccinated (72.5%) exceeds the number who have received at least one dose (72.1%).

    Edit to add: the data is easier to see on the EU page - https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#national-ref-tab

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%
    Those figures have thrown a Grenada in the southern Spanish drive, though.
    Oh God. He's at it again.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,871

    Make vaccination more convenient....how much more convenient than now can it be? There are 1000s and 1000s of centres throughout the country, open 8am to 8pm, 7 days a week. There is online booking, phone booking, GP led, On top of there, there are walk up no question centres mobile vans, weekly mass jabathons. All free of charge.

    What specific extra measures could they do?

    I booked my second jab this morning, there were maybe a dozen places I could go compared to three for the first jab. I picked the same place and could have any day I wanted and when I selected that there were also a wide range of time slots. Sure for some people there may be dificulties in getting a jab, but I expect most people can find a suitable time and place if they try.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,210
    Stocky said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    28k....37....406

    Yep... not great at all. My prediction at start of the month was that we would get to 300/day by end of June... but I clearly underestimated it.

    Remember also that the hospitalizations figure is actually for last week, there's a significant delay in reporting.
    England which is a bit more up to date reported 390 admissions day before yesterday... so we have potentially broken 500 admission/day for UK already.
    I did project the other day on here that we would get to 100,000 cases a day. Not everyone universally agreed with me. I do hope that I am wrong...
    I thought you said it would get to 100k cases a day by last week?

    When do you think it will get to 100k by? And if it does without causing hospitalisations and deaths because the link has been broken then why should we care?
    I imagine the approx 20,000 people who get long Covid will care. Or do they not matter?
    Do they matter more than the x thousand people who get cancer? Or have a heart attack?
    Yes but that suggests that it is a choice, while more likely to be both. The massive backlogs are because of the pandemic, not the lockdown.
    What's the latest word on ending social distancing in hospitals? Going on the 19th like the rest of the country? Fingers crossed.
    No change in hospitals planned, I have specifically asked management.
    Seems like a really odd decision, maybe something Javid will address in the next few days. At least you've got rid of Hancock.
    Inevitable in medical settings. Who in charge is going to take a risk?

    My concern is more with the non-medical public sector. It's all very well saying that private business can make their own rules* on this but I'd like to see the government extending freedom day to non-medical public services. Bet they won't though.

    *Johnson said yesterday that businesses can apply rules, e.g. mask continuance on their premises, if they choose. But he also said that individuals are entitled to choose not to wear masks. Stormy times ahead.
    At DWP an email came round this morning that strongly indicated we won't be rushing back to normal on the 19th. We're currently operating at reduced capacity, every other desk, screens etc with a lot of work still being done from home by phone. We are seeing people in the office though, particularly 18-24 year olds who have been identified as a priority. In contrast, some other local services haven't opened their doors.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I think it is time we all looked to Malta for Covid vaccination success. They have achieved the impossible.

    According to their own government website, they are the only country where the number of people who are fully vaccinated (72.5%) exceeds the number who have received at least one dose (72.1%).

    Edit to add: the data is easier to see on the EU page - https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#national-ref-tab

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%
    I take it back. It appears that Malta is not the only country to have achieved the impossible. Indeed, it's clear that Gibraltar's impossible is even more impossible than Malta's.

    It's also very clear that if you want Covid vaccination success, you need the letters "lta" consecutively in your place name.
    Angltarre 😜
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,283
    Andy_JS said:

    rkrkrk said:

    28k....37....406

    Yep... not great at all. My prediction at start of the month was that we would get to 300/day by end of June... but I clearly underestimated it.

    Remember also that the hospitalizations figure is actually for last week, there's a significant delay in reporting.
    England which is a bit more up to date reported 390 admissions day before yesterday... so we have potentially broken 500 admission/day for UK already.
    I did project the other day on here that we would get to 100,000 cases a day. Not everyone universally agreed with me. I do hope that I am wrong...
    I thought you said it would get to 100k cases a day by last week?

    When do you think it will get to 100k by? And if it does without causing hospitalisations and deaths because the link has been broken then why should we care?
    I imagine the approx 20,000 people who get long Covid will care. Or do they not matter?
    Your arguments are poor.
    And your response to them subjective.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,871

    Wales has crawled to just below 90% - they will probably hit that in a week or so. But that is it for Wales, I think....

    I think that we would be lucky to get that high for the UK as a whole...

    Time to switch from the carrot "you won't die" to the stick "get it or else we'll..." then.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I think it is time we all looked to Malta for Covid vaccination success. They have achieved the impossible.

    According to their own government website, they are the only country where the number of people who are fully vaccinated (72.5%) exceeds the number who have received at least one dose (72.1%).

    Edit to add: the data is easier to see on the EU page - https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#national-ref-tab

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%
    Those figures have thrown a Grenada in the southern Spanish drive, though.
    I don't think the Spanish can a Ford to scoff at that.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460

    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.

    I didn't even know HMV was still going.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,283
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I think it is time we all looked to Malta for Covid vaccination success. They have achieved the impossible.

    According to their own government website, they are the only country where the number of people who are fully vaccinated (72.5%) exceeds the number who have received at least one dose (72.1%).

    Edit to add: the data is easier to see on the EU page - https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#national-ref-tab

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%
    Those figures have thrown a Grenada in the southern Spanish drive, though.
    It has definitely costa lot to do it
  • glwglw Posts: 9,871

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%

    Are they jabbing the monkeys?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,214
    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    28k....37....406

    Yep... not great at all. My prediction at start of the month was that we would get to 300/day by end of June... but I clearly underestimated it.

    Remember also that the hospitalizations figure is actually for last week, there's a significant delay in reporting.
    England which is a bit more up to date reported 390 admissions day before yesterday... so we have potentially broken 500 admission/day for UK already.
    88% of people in hospital are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated. The people going into hospital are majority those who are refusing the vaccine, this was a known outcome of any unlockdown as we saw in Israel. What do you propose to avoid this outcome?
    If a + b = 88%, can we say that either a or b is over 50%?
    We've seen previous breakdowns of this figure were the actually unvaccinated make up a much larger proportion than the partially vaccinated, additionally we aren't halting the vaccine programme. Either way, you haven't answered the question, the vast majority of people in hospital now and for the foreseeable future are those who have said no to the vaccine. What do you propose we do?
    Where is your evidence hospitals are full of refusers?

    The answer was to vaccinate everyone, wait 2 weeks, and then lift restrictions.

    But it's too late for that now. We are committed to an unnecessary wave. The only question is how big it will be.
    A SAGE member said it this morning that 88% of people currently in hospital in England are unvaccinated or only partially vaccinated. Currently the latter group are just in a waiting period of getting their second dose and most of them could probably walk up and get one if they tried after 3/4 weeks.

    How do you vaccinate everyone? Send in the army China style, hold them down and jab them, then do it again three weeks later?
    I keep trying to tell you, the partially protected are a massive chunk of population. Vaccine refusers are a small, small proportion.

    Semple defined full protection as 4 weeks from vaccine.
    But whatever it is, it's not indefinite and every day we get closer to it. Vaccine refusers will be around 5m in total. The number of first doses is now demand limited, it has been for the last couple of weeks.

    All of the scientists are fairly united that unlockdown in autumn would be a disaster as the exit wave would be horrific for the NHS combined with what is likely to be a pretty bad flu season as we don't know what to put in the jab this year.

    So once again, I'm asking the question, what are you proposing we do?
    Well I would guess try to slow transmission through mask wearing (most obviously in schools, public transport etc.), properly fund isolation, speed up vaccination by making it more convenient and maybe even paying people, put money into local public health teams... nothing particularly revolutionary to be honest!

    But there's no denying this should have been done earlier. The govt have obviously let this get out of control again, and are going to get a whole bunch of people infected before they had full vaccine protection rather than afterwards.
    Make vaccination more convenient....how much more convenient than now can it be? There are 1000s and 1000s of centres throughout the country, open 8am to 8pm, 7 days a week. There is online booking, phone booking, GP led, On top of there, there are walk up no question centres mobile vans, weekly mass jabathons. All free of charge.

    What specific extra measures could they do?
    Well convenient is probably one they should have done earlier... it may be very good now I don't know, for a while it certainly wasn't so easy. Family member has been told not until end of August.
    For a first dose? They should call the number and get that pushed up immediately, all first doses are supposed to be done before July 19th.
    For a 2nd dose
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited July 2021

    rcs1000 said:

    I think it is time we all looked to Malta for Covid vaccination success. They have achieved the impossible.

    According to their own government website, they are the only country where the number of people who are fully vaccinated (72.5%) exceeds the number who have received at least one dose (72.1%).

    Edit to add: the data is easier to see on the EU page - https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#national-ref-tab

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%
    Do they also have lots of unregistered eastern Europeans living in sheds?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320

    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.

    “One vision, one Britain”
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.

    “One vision, one Britain”
    Don't stop me now.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113

    Stocky said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    28k....37....406

    Yep... not great at all. My prediction at start of the month was that we would get to 300/day by end of June... but I clearly underestimated it.

    Remember also that the hospitalizations figure is actually for last week, there's a significant delay in reporting.
    England which is a bit more up to date reported 390 admissions day before yesterday... so we have potentially broken 500 admission/day for UK already.
    I did project the other day on here that we would get to 100,000 cases a day. Not everyone universally agreed with me. I do hope that I am wrong...
    I thought you said it would get to 100k cases a day by last week?

    When do you think it will get to 100k by? And if it does without causing hospitalisations and deaths because the link has been broken then why should we care?
    I imagine the approx 20,000 people who get long Covid will care. Or do they not matter?
    Do they matter more than the x thousand people who get cancer? Or have a heart attack?
    Yes but that suggests that it is a choice, while more likely to be both. The massive backlogs are because of the pandemic, not the lockdown.
    What's the latest word on ending social distancing in hospitals? Going on the 19th like the rest of the country? Fingers crossed.
    No change in hospitals planned, I have specifically asked management.
    Seems like a really odd decision, maybe something Javid will address in the next few days. At least you've got rid of Hancock.
    Inevitable in medical settings. Who in charge is going to take a risk?

    My concern is more with the non-medical public sector. It's all very well saying that private business can make their own rules* on this but I'd like to see the government extending freedom day to non-medical public services. Bet they won't though.

    *Johnson said yesterday that businesses can apply rules, e.g. mask continuance on their premises, if they choose. But he also said that individuals are entitled to choose not to wear masks. Stormy times ahead.
    At DWP an email came round this morning that strongly indicated we won't be rushing back to normal on the 19th. We're currently operating at reduced capacity, every other desk, screens etc with a lot of work still being done from home by phone. We are seeing people in the office though, particularly 18-24 year olds who have been identified as a priority. In contrast, some other local services haven't opened their doors.
    Who is making these decisions? And why is the government giving them the ability to do this? I've been saying for weeks that it will be businesses and other organisations that will be the ones to drag their heels.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I think it is time we all looked to Malta for Covid vaccination success. They have achieved the impossible.

    According to their own government website, they are the only country where the number of people who are fully vaccinated (72.5%) exceeds the number who have received at least one dose (72.1%).

    Edit to add: the data is easier to see on the EU page - https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#national-ref-tab

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%
    Those figures have thrown a Grenada in the southern Spanish drive, though.
    I don't think the Spanish can a Ford to scoff at that.
    You should be Escorted off the premises for that.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.

    “One vision, one Britain”
    "Another one bites the dust" might be tasteless in the circumstances...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928

    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.

    My daughter (13) has just discovered Queen. She's also got herself a turntable, and wants to get all their albums on vinyl.

    Youth of today, huh?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I think it is time we all looked to Malta for Covid vaccination success. They have achieved the impossible.

    According to their own government website, they are the only country where the number of people who are fully vaccinated (72.5%) exceeds the number who have received at least one dose (72.1%).

    Edit to add: the data is easier to see on the EU page - https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#national-ref-tab

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%
    Those figures have thrown a Grenada in the southern Spanish drive, though.
    Oh God. He's at it again.
    I am not God.

    I can see why the awesomeness of my puns might confuse you though.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    glw said:

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%

    Are they jabbing the monkeys?
    I should dam' well hope the macaques are getting it as well as the Rock Apes - they can both get the pox.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    rcs1000 said:

    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.

    My daughter (13) has just discovered Queen. She's also got herself a turntable, and wants to get all their albums on vinyl.

    Youth of today, huh?
    They like a broken record.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    South African is looking bad again. Very low vaccination and of course they totally pulled the use of AZN.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    On long covid:

    When I had viral meningitis six or so years ago, I was fairly poorly. Once I was released from hospital, it took me a long time to recover. In fact, I had two relapses, one of which sent me back to hospital, three months after the illness. Many medical professionals say that once recovered from viral meningitis you are fine, but I have talked to many people who had relapses with symptoms very similar to the original illness. God knows what the cause is, though.

    During my illness, I heard "You've recovered from the meningitis; it can't be that" from a couple of medical professionals. Despite the symptoms being similar, having had no blood tests, and not having suffered from them before, or thankfully since. It's a terrible view for so-called professionals to have. It is perversely funny to see the medical profession immediately accepting long covid, when many meningitis sufferers face denial.

    My view is that viruses can take a long time to recover from, even when the original symptoms have disappeared. My short-term memory was poor after the illness; I am unsure if it is back to where it was, but it is certainly much better than it was

    I think there's good news in this. I know two people who have suffered from long covid; both early on in the epidemic. Both feel they are back to normal; but it can be a long process.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Sean_F said:

    Stocky said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Honestly. "Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations" - how can people be so idiotic to think that retaining a statue seeks to instill centuries-old behaviour on future generations. These people can't be stupid - just mischief-making surely?
    I bet Lt. Columbo said or did something that someone could take exception to, if you searched hard enough. He probably wasn't a supporter of Gender Self I/D or same sex marriage, for instance.
    He was actually. Or rather he would have been if he were still with us. He also would have stopped smoking cigars.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Dear Surrey

    Why you couldn’t have batted that incompetently in your second match against Gloucestershire?

    Looks like winner takes it all at Cheltenham next week.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited July 2021

    On long covid:

    When I had viral meningitis six or so years ago, I was fairly poorly. Once I was released from hospital, it took me a long time to recover. In fact, I had two relapses, one of which sent me back to hospital, three months after the illness. Many medical professionals say that once recovered from viral meningitis you are fine, but I have talked to many people who had relapses with symptoms very similar to the original illness. God knows what the cause is, though.

    During my illness, I heard "You've recovered from the meningitis; it can't be that" from a couple of medical professionals. Despite the symptoms being similar, having had no blood tests, and not having suffered from them before, or thankfully since. It's a terrible view for so-called professionals to have. It is perversely funny to see the medical profession immediately accepting long covid, when many meningitis sufferers face denial.

    My view is that viruses can take a long time to recover from, even when the original symptoms have disappeared. My short-term memory was poor after the illness; I am unsure if it is back to where it was, but it is certainly much better than it was

    I think there's good news in this. I know two people who have suffered from long covid; both early on in the epidemic. Both feel they are back to normal; but it can be a long process.

    A couple of years ago i was hospitalised with pneumonia. Took me 6 months to get back to full fitness and had a couple of set backs.

    I think at the moment lots unknown about the catch all term of long covid, which is basically been used to bucket for anybody who is still suffering after initial recovery. I think there is a wide range among this.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.

    My daughter (13) has just discovered Queen. She's also got herself a turntable, and wants to get all their albums on vinyl.

    Youth of today, huh?
    They like a broken record.
    The table has turned for vinyl. Both my boys have collections, though they mostly pinch mine. There is an artisnal love of a physical piece of music.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401

    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.

    It has "We are the champions" on it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.

    My daughter (13) has just discovered Queen. She's also got herself a turntable, and wants to get all their albums on vinyl.

    Youth of today, huh?
    They like a broken record.
    The table has turned for vinyl. Both my boys have collections, though they mostly pinch mine. There is an artisnal love of a physical piece of music.
    So it turns out IPods and IPHones were not the vinyl word?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    rkrkrk said:

    28k....37....406

    Yep... not great at all. My prediction at start of the month was that we would get to 300/day by end of June... but I clearly underestimated it.

    Remember also that the hospitalizations figure is actually for last week, there's a significant delay in reporting.
    England which is a bit more up to date reported 390 admissions day before yesterday... so we have potentially broken 500 admission/day for UK already.
    88% of people in hospital are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated. The people going into hospital are majority those who are refusing the vaccine, this was a known outcome of any unlockdown as we saw in Israel. What do you propose to avoid this outcome?
    If a + b = 88%, can we say that either a or b is over 50%?
    We've seen previous breakdowns of this figure were the actually unvaccinated make up a much larger proportion than the partially vaccinated, additionally we aren't halting the vaccine programme. Either way, you haven't answered the question, the vast majority of people in hospital now and for the foreseeable future are those who have said no to the vaccine. What do you propose we do?
    Where is your evidence hospitals are full of refusers?

    The answer was to vaccinate everyone, wait 2 weeks, and then lift restrictions.

    But it's too late for that now. We are committed to an unnecessary wave. The only question is how big it will be.
    A SAGE member said it this morning that 88% of people currently in hospital in England are unvaccinated or only partially vaccinated. Currently the latter group are just in a waiting period of getting their second dose and most of them could probably walk up and get one if they tried after 3/4 weeks.

    How do you vaccinate everyone? Send in the army China style, hold them down and jab them, then do it again three weeks later?
    I keep trying to tell you, the partially protected are a massive chunk of population. Vaccine refusers are a small, small proportion.

    Semple defined full protection as 4 weeks from vaccine.
    But whatever it is, it's not indefinite and every day we get closer to it. Vaccine refusers will be around 5m in total. The number of first doses is now demand limited, it has been for the last couple of weeks.

    All of the scientists are fairly united that unlockdown in autumn would be a disaster as the exit wave would be horrific for the NHS combined with what is likely to be a pretty bad flu season as we don't know what to put in the jab this year.

    So once again, I'm asking the question, what are you proposing we do?
    Well I would guess try to slow transmission through mask wearing (most obviously in schools, public transport etc.), properly fund isolation, speed up vaccination by making it more convenient and maybe even paying people, put money into local public health teams... nothing particularly revolutionary to be honest!

    But there's no denying this should have been done earlier. The govt have obviously let this get out of control again, and are going to get a whole bunch of people infected before they had full vaccine protection rather than afterwards.
    Make vaccination more convenient....how much more convenient than now can it be? There are 1000s and 1000s of centres throughout the country, open 8am to 8pm, 7 days a week. There is online booking, phone booking, GP led, On top of there, there are walk up no question centres mobile vans, weekly mass jabathons. All free of charge.

    What specific extra measures could they do?
    Well convenient is probably one they should have done earlier... it may be very good now I don't know, for a while it certainly wasn't so easy. Family member has been told not until end of August.
    For a first dose? They should call the number and get that pushed up immediately, all first doses are supposed to be done before July 19th.
    For a 2nd dose
    They should be able to get that moved up too or try a walk in, the restrictions there are gone.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited July 2021
    Interesting Prof Pantsdown says he thinks cases could be as high as 150-200k cases a day, but government strategy is justified and he is reasonably confident.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    Delta update - Son, double jabbed and having suffered covid last year and his girlfriend (double jabbed) are both now on anti biotics

    He describes this bout of covid as "far, far worse than the first one"

    Lumme

    Does he note any major differences in symptoms?

    Sympathies to both of them; they are an interesting example
    Last time he was rough for 48 hours tops - this time its longer than that - he seemed a bit better yesterday but not so good today.

    Temperature is better - 37.1 earlier - sats at 94 last reading

    He says he has only lost his sense of taste today

    He is young but has some severe health issues which are a concern
    The viral phase either gets better in a week, or switches to the more dangerous inflammatory phase, so if worsening then it does need to be taken very seriously. May well need in person assessment.
    Thanks Foxy - I was really worried when his sats were below 90 - I'm happier that he is in touch regularly with NHS - although all on phone.


    As an aside - track and trace have been active in checking that he has stayed at home - not that he is even thinking of going out right now
    Pleased to hear the £37 billion we've spaffed on track and trace is not wholly wasted. GWS.

  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,662
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I think it is time we all looked to Malta for Covid vaccination success. They have achieved the impossible.

    According to their own government website, they are the only country where the number of people who are fully vaccinated (72.5%) exceeds the number who have received at least one dose (72.1%).

    Edit to add: the data is easier to see on the EU page - https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#national-ref-tab

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%
    Those figures have thrown a Grenada in the southern Spanish drive, though.
    I don't think the Spanish can a Ford to scoff at that.
    I don't think that they are entitled to Seat at that particular table.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342

    On long covid:

    When I had viral meningitis six or so years ago, I was fairly poorly. Once I was released from hospital, it took me a long time to recover. In fact, I had two relapses, one of which sent me back to hospital, three months after the illness. Many medical professionals say that once recovered from viral meningitis you are fine, but I have talked to many people who had relapses with symptoms very similar to the original illness. God knows what the cause is, though.

    During my illness, I heard "You've recovered from the meningitis; it can't be that" from a couple of medical professionals. Despite the symptoms being similar, having had no blood tests, and not having suffered from them before, or thankfully since. It's a terrible view for so-called professionals to have. It is perversely funny to see the medical profession immediately accepting long covid, when many meningitis sufferers face denial.

    My view is that viruses can take a long time to recover from, even when the original symptoms have disappeared. My short-term memory was poor after the illness; I am unsure if it is back to where it was, but it is certainly much better than it was

    I think there's good news in this. I know two people who have suffered from long covid; both early on in the epidemic. Both feel they are back to normal; but it can be a long process.

    A couple of years ago i was hospitalised with pneumonia. Took me 6 months to get back to full fitness and had a couple of set backs.

    I think at the moment lots unknown about the catch all term of long covid, which is basically been used to bucket for anybody who is still suffering after initial recovery. I think there is a wide range among this.

    On long covid:

    When I had viral meningitis six or so years ago, I was fairly poorly. Once I was released from hospital, it took me a long time to recover. In fact, I had two relapses, one of which sent me back to hospital, three months after the illness. Many medical professionals say that once recovered from viral meningitis you are fine, but I have talked to many people who had relapses with symptoms very similar to the original illness. God knows what the cause is, though.

    During my illness, I heard "You've recovered from the meningitis; it can't be that" from a couple of medical professionals. Despite the symptoms being similar, having had no blood tests, and not having suffered from them before, or thankfully since. It's a terrible view for so-called professionals to have. It is perversely funny to see the medical profession immediately accepting long covid, when many meningitis sufferers face denial.

    My view is that viruses can take a long time to recover from, even when the original symptoms have disappeared. My short-term memory was poor after the illness; I am unsure if it is back to where it was, but it is certainly much better than it was

    I think there's good news in this. I know two people who have suffered from long covid; both early on in the epidemic. Both feel they are back to normal; but it can be a long process.

    A couple of years ago i was hospitalised with pneumonia. Took me 6 months to get back to full fitness and had a couple of set backs.

    I think at the moment lots unknown about the catch all term of long covid, which is basically been used to bucket for anybody who is still suffering after initial recovery. I think there is a wide range among this.
    Didn't I hear at the briefing yesterday that Long Covid was almost certainly a catch-all term for several different syndromes?
    First I've heard of this.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.

    My daughter (13) has just discovered Queen. She's also got herself a turntable, and wants to get all their albums on vinyl.

    Youth of today, huh?
    They like a broken record.
    The table has turned for vinyl. Both my boys have collections, though they mostly pinch mine. There is an artisnal love of a physical piece of music.
    So it turns out IPods and IPHones were not the vinyl word?
    I think we have to let the Singles Chart the way for cultural trends.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I think it is time we all looked to Malta for Covid vaccination success. They have achieved the impossible.

    According to their own government website, they are the only country where the number of people who are fully vaccinated (72.5%) exceeds the number who have received at least one dose (72.1%).

    Edit to add: the data is easier to see on the EU page - https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#national-ref-tab

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%
    Those figures have thrown a Grenada in the southern Spanish drive, though.
    I don't think the Spanish can a Ford to scoff at that.
    I don't think that they are entitled to Seat at that particular table.
    That's a Fiat the Italians want to achieve.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.

    My daughter (13) has just discovered Queen. She's also got herself a turntable, and wants to get all their albums on vinyl.

    Youth of today, huh?
    They like a broken record.
    The table has turned for vinyl. Both my boys have collections, though they mostly pinch mine. There is an artisnal love of a physical piece of music.
    So it turns out IPods and IPHones were not the vinyl word?
    I think we have to let the Singles Chart the way for cultural trends.
    I’ll be B side myself with happiness if it makes a proper comeback.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320

    Interesting Prof Pantsdown says he thinks cases could be as high as 150-200k cases a day, but government strategy is justified and he is reasonably confident.

    Do you have a link?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Any reason for the massive surge in Tamworth? Any meat packing factories there?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited July 2021

    Interesting Prof Pantsdown says he thinks cases could be as high as 150-200k cases a day, but government strategy is justified and he is reasonably confident.

    Do you have a link?
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/covid-cases-two-hundred-thousand-afterjuly-19-neil-ferguson-b944295.html
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Alistair said:

    Any reason for the massive surge in Tamworth? Any meat packing factories there?

    There was one, but it closed a few months ago. Don’t know of any others. Some may commute to work in Burton, of course - it’s an easy enough drive.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    Delta update - Son, double jabbed and having suffered covid last year and his girlfriend (double jabbed) are both now on anti biotics

    He describes this bout of covid as "far, far worse than the first one"

    Lumme

    Does he note any major differences in symptoms?

    Sympathies to both of them; they are an interesting example
    Last time he was rough for 48 hours tops - this time its longer than that - he seemed a bit better yesterday but not so good today.

    Temperature is better - 37.1 earlier - sats at 94 last reading

    He says he has only lost his sense of taste today

    He is young but has some severe health issues which are a concern
    The viral phase either gets better in a week, or switches to the more dangerous inflammatory phase, so if worsening then it does need to be taken very seriously. May well need in person assessment.
    Thanks Foxy - I was really worried when his sats were below 90 - I'm happier that he is in touch regularly with NHS - although all on phone.


    As an aside - track and trace have been active in checking that he has stayed at home - not that he is even thinking of going out right now
    Pleased to hear the £37 billion we've spaffed on track and trace is not wholly wasted. GWS.

    https://fullfact.org/online/37bn-test-trace-spending/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,828

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    Delta update - Son, double jabbed and having suffered covid last year and his girlfriend (double jabbed) are both now on anti biotics

    He describes this bout of covid as "far, far worse than the first one"

    Lumme

    Does he note any major differences in symptoms?

    Sympathies to both of them; they are an interesting example
    Last time he was rough for 48 hours tops - this time its longer than that - he seemed a bit better yesterday but not so good today.

    Temperature is better - 37.1 earlier - sats at 94 last reading

    He says he has only lost his sense of taste today

    He is young but has some severe health issues which are a concern
    The viral phase either gets better in a week, or switches to the more dangerous inflammatory phase, so if worsening then it does need to be taken very seriously. May well need in person assessment.
    Thanks Foxy - I was really worried when his sats were below 90 - I'm happier that he is in touch regularly with NHS - although all on phone.


    As an aside - track and trace have been active in checking that he has stayed at home - not that he is even thinking of going out right now
    Pleased to hear the £37 billion we've spaffed on track and trace is not wholly wasted. GWS.

    https://fullfact.org/online/37bn-test-trace-spending/
    Not quite as bad as when the FT thought the entire NHS diagnostic budget was going to be used on testing.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,284
    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    RobD said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    Delta update - Son, double jabbed and having suffered covid last year and his girlfriend (double jabbed) are both now on anti biotics

    He describes this bout of covid as "far, far worse than the first one"

    Lumme

    Does he note any major differences in symptoms?

    Sympathies to both of them; they are an interesting example
    Last time he was rough for 48 hours tops - this time its longer than that - he seemed a bit better yesterday but not so good today.

    Temperature is better - 37.1 earlier - sats at 94 last reading

    He says he has only lost his sense of taste today

    He is young but has some severe health issues which are a concern
    The viral phase either gets better in a week, or switches to the more dangerous inflammatory phase, so if worsening then it does need to be taken very seriously. May well need in person assessment.
    Thanks Foxy - I was really worried when his sats were below 90 - I'm happier that he is in touch regularly with NHS - although all on phone.


    As an aside - track and trace have been active in checking that he has stayed at home - not that he is even thinking of going out right now
    Pleased to hear the £37 billion we've spaffed on track and trace is not wholly wasted. GWS.

    https://fullfact.org/online/37bn-test-trace-spending/
    Not quite as bad as when the FT thought the entire NHS diagnostic budget was going to be used on testing.
    So £20 billion up to April and what we have to show for it is one PBer's ill son getting a phone call, whereas the equivalent programmes in the Far East seem to have suppressed Covid quite effectively. But no doubt that's an unfair comparison because they are mindless automatons and we are an international transport hub or something.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    RobD said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    Delta update - Son, double jabbed and having suffered covid last year and his girlfriend (double jabbed) are both now on anti biotics

    He describes this bout of covid as "far, far worse than the first one"

    Lumme

    Does he note any major differences in symptoms?

    Sympathies to both of them; they are an interesting example
    Last time he was rough for 48 hours tops - this time its longer than that - he seemed a bit better yesterday but not so good today.

    Temperature is better - 37.1 earlier - sats at 94 last reading

    He says he has only lost his sense of taste today

    He is young but has some severe health issues which are a concern
    The viral phase either gets better in a week, or switches to the more dangerous inflammatory phase, so if worsening then it does need to be taken very seriously. May well need in person assessment.
    Thanks Foxy - I was really worried when his sats were below 90 - I'm happier that he is in touch regularly with NHS - although all on phone.


    As an aside - track and trace have been active in checking that he has stayed at home - not that he is even thinking of going out right now
    Pleased to hear the £37 billion we've spaffed on track and trace is not wholly wasted. GWS.

    https://fullfact.org/online/37bn-test-trace-spending/
    Not quite as bad as when the FT thought the entire NHS diagnostic budget was going to be used on testing.
    So £20 billion up to April and what we have to show for it is one PBer's ill son getting a phone call, whereas the equivalent programmes in the Far East seem to have suppressed Covid quite effectively. But no doubt that's an unfair comparison because they are mindless automatons and we are an international transport hub or something.
    Hey, with Dido Harding it’s just amazing they could find a working phone line.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,828

    RobD said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    Delta update - Son, double jabbed and having suffered covid last year and his girlfriend (double jabbed) are both now on anti biotics

    He describes this bout of covid as "far, far worse than the first one"

    Lumme

    Does he note any major differences in symptoms?

    Sympathies to both of them; they are an interesting example
    Last time he was rough for 48 hours tops - this time its longer than that - he seemed a bit better yesterday but not so good today.

    Temperature is better - 37.1 earlier - sats at 94 last reading

    He says he has only lost his sense of taste today

    He is young but has some severe health issues which are a concern
    The viral phase either gets better in a week, or switches to the more dangerous inflammatory phase, so if worsening then it does need to be taken very seriously. May well need in person assessment.
    Thanks Foxy - I was really worried when his sats were below 90 - I'm happier that he is in touch regularly with NHS - although all on phone.


    As an aside - track and trace have been active in checking that he has stayed at home - not that he is even thinking of going out right now
    Pleased to hear the £37 billion we've spaffed on track and trace is not wholly wasted. GWS.

    https://fullfact.org/online/37bn-test-trace-spending/
    Not quite as bad as when the FT thought the entire NHS diagnostic budget was going to be used on testing.
    So £20 billion up to April and what we have to show for it is one PBer's ill son getting a phone call, whereas the equivalent programmes in the Far East seem to have suppressed Covid quite effectively. But no doubt that's an unfair comparison because they are mindless automatons and we are an international transport hub or something.
    Don't they have mass surveillance there? Good luck trying to enforce that in the UK.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Columbo is one of the best TV series ever in my opinion.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,465

    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.

    50th anniversary.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I think it is time we all looked to Malta for Covid vaccination success. They have achieved the impossible.

    According to their own government website, they are the only country where the number of people who are fully vaccinated (72.5%) exceeds the number who have received at least one dose (72.1%).

    Edit to add: the data is easier to see on the EU page - https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#national-ref-tab

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%
    Those figures have thrown a Grenada in the southern Spanish drive, though.
    Oh God. He's at it again.
    I am not God.

    I can see why the awesomeness of my puns might confuse you though.
    They are indeed divine.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Columbo is one of the best TV series ever in my opinion.
    Without a doubt.

    The Shatner episode where he’s an actor who plays a detective who eventually helps Columbo solve the case against him is genius.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    Interesting Prof Pantsdown says he thinks cases could be as high as 150-200k cases a day, but government strategy is justified and he is reasonably confident.

    Do you have a link?
    I saw him on BBC News saying this.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    On long covid:

    When I had viral meningitis six or so years ago, I was fairly poorly. Once I was released from hospital, it took me a long time to recover. In fact, I had two relapses, one of which sent me back to hospital, three months after the illness. Many medical professionals say that once recovered from viral meningitis you are fine, but I have talked to many people who had relapses with symptoms very similar to the original illness. God knows what the cause is, though.

    During my illness, I heard "You've recovered from the meningitis; it can't be that" from a couple of medical professionals. Despite the symptoms being similar, having had no blood tests, and not having suffered from them before, or thankfully since. It's a terrible view for so-called professionals to have. It is perversely funny to see the medical profession immediately accepting long covid, when many meningitis sufferers face denial.

    My view is that viruses can take a long time to recover from, even when the original symptoms have disappeared. My short-term memory was poor after the illness; I am unsure if it is back to where it was, but it is certainly much better than it was

    I think there's good news in this. I know two people who have suffered from long covid; both early on in the epidemic. Both feel they are back to normal; but it can be a long process.

    A couple of years ago i was hospitalised with pneumonia. Took me 6 months to get back to full fitness and had a couple of set backs.

    I think at the moment lots unknown about the catch all term of long covid, which is basically been used to bucket for anybody who is still suffering after initial recovery. I think there is a wide range among this.
    Post viral syndromes have been around for a long time - but I think it’s true that a lot of doctors are very unwilling to recognise stuff they can’t properly diagnose or explain. Covid has thrown up so many cases that even the most sceptical can’t ignore the reality.

    And on a more positive note will lead to a great deal of research into the underlying mechansims.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.

    My daughter (13) has just discovered Queen. She's also got herself a turntable, and wants to get all their albums on vinyl.

    Youth of today, huh?
    They like a broken record.
    The table has turned for vinyl. Both my boys have collections, though they mostly pinch mine. There is an artisnal love of a physical piece of music.
    So it turns out IPods and IPHones were not the vinyl word?
    I'm going to ask Vanilla if they can add a "Groan" button.
    Why? Do my record puns needle you?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.

    My daughter (13) has just discovered Queen. She's also got herself a turntable, and wants to get all their albums on vinyl.

    Youth of today, huh?
    They like a broken record.
    The table has turned for vinyl. Both my boys have collections, though they mostly pinch mine. There is an artisnal love of a physical piece of music.
    So it turns out IPods and IPHones were not the vinyl word?
    I'm going to ask Vanilla if they can add a "Groan" button.
    Why? Do my record puns needle you?
    Asks the spin doctor...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.

    My daughter (13) has just discovered Queen. She's also got herself a turntable, and wants to get all their albums on vinyl.

    Youth of today, huh?
    They like a broken record.
    The table has turned for vinyl. Both my boys have collections, though they mostly pinch mine. There is an artisnal love of a physical piece of music.
    So it turns out IPods and IPHones were not the vinyl word?
    I'm going to ask Vanilla if they can add a "Groan" button.
    Why? Do my record puns needle you?
    Asks the spin doctor...
    Well, more of a wind up merchant it would seem.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Nigelb said:

    On long covid:

    When I had viral meningitis six or so years ago, I was fairly poorly. Once I was released from hospital, it took me a long time to recover. In fact, I had two relapses, one of which sent me back to hospital, three months after the illness. Many medical professionals say that once recovered from viral meningitis you are fine, but I have talked to many people who had relapses with symptoms very similar to the original illness. God knows what the cause is, though.

    During my illness, I heard "You've recovered from the meningitis; it can't be that" from a couple of medical professionals. Despite the symptoms being similar, having had no blood tests, and not having suffered from them before, or thankfully since. It's a terrible view for so-called professionals to have. It is perversely funny to see the medical profession immediately accepting long covid, when many meningitis sufferers face denial.

    My view is that viruses can take a long time to recover from, even when the original symptoms have disappeared. My short-term memory was poor after the illness; I am unsure if it is back to where it was, but it is certainly much better than it was

    I think there's good news in this. I know two people who have suffered from long covid; both early on in the epidemic. Both feel they are back to normal; but it can be a long process.

    A couple of years ago i was hospitalised with pneumonia. Took me 6 months to get back to full fitness and had a couple of set backs.

    I think at the moment lots unknown about the catch all term of long covid, which is basically been used to bucket for anybody who is still suffering after initial recovery. I think there is a wide range among this.
    Post viral syndromes have been around for a long time - but I think it’s true that a lot of doctors are very unwilling to recognise stuff they can’t properly diagnose or explain. Covid has thrown up so many cases that even the most sceptical can’t ignore the reality.

    And on a more positive note will lead to a great deal of research into the underlying mechansims.
    It will be interesting to see if the recorded brain changes are confirmed in other patients.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Stocky said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Honestly. "Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations" - how can people be so idiotic to think that retaining a statue seeks to instill centuries-old behaviour on future generations. These people can't be stupid - just mischief-making surely?
    I bet Lt. Columbo said or did something that someone could take exception to, if you searched hard enough. He probably wasn't a supporter of Gender Self I/D or same sex marriage, for instance.
    He was actually. Or rather he would have been if he were still with us. He also would have stopped smoking cigars.
    Also an early environmentalist, eschewing conspicuous consumption and the vagueries of fashion. And running the same car for decades.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Columbo is one of the best TV series ever in my opinion.
    +1,000

    They are almost all available on-line, and the first half dozen seasons are fantastic.

    Fact for the day: the very first ever Columbo episode, Murder by the Book (1971) was directed by Steven Spielberg, when he was just 24 years old.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    Delta update - Son, double jabbed and having suffered covid last year and his girlfriend (double jabbed) are both now on anti biotics

    He describes this bout of covid as "far, far worse than the first one"

    Lumme

    Does he note any major differences in symptoms?

    Sympathies to both of them; they are an interesting example
    Last time he was rough for 48 hours tops - this time its longer than that - he seemed a bit better yesterday but not so good today.

    Temperature is better - 37.1 earlier - sats at 94 last reading

    He says he has only lost his sense of taste today

    He is young but has some severe health issues which are a concern
    The viral phase either gets better in a week, or switches to the more dangerous inflammatory phase, so if worsening then it does need to be taken very seriously. May well need in person assessment.
    Thanks Foxy - I was really worried when his sats were below 90 - I'm happier that he is in touch regularly with NHS - although all on phone.


    As an aside - track and trace have been active in checking that he has stayed at home - not that he is even thinking of going out right now
    Pleased to hear the £37 billion we've spaffed on track and trace is not wholly wasted. GWS.

    You will be even more pleased to know they have rung him more than once :smiley:
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    edited July 2021

    Slightly random but I just saw an HMV TV advert for Queen's Greatest Hits album.

    Now I do believe everyone should own a copy, but feeling a little bemused as to why it needs to be pushed now.

    50th anniversary.
    40th? Google says it was released October 1981. But big anniversary makes sense, thanks.

    Edit - 50th anniversary of the band, 40th of the album.

    https://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/queens-greatest-hits-is-getting-a-re-release-to-mark-the-bands-50th-anniversary__33249/
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Columbo is one of the best TV series ever in my opinion.
    +1,000

    They are almost all available on-line, and the first half dozen seasons are fantastic.

    Fact for the day: the very first ever Columbo episode, Murder by the Book (1971) was directed by Steven Spielberg, when he was just 24 years old.
    5USA show them regularly too. If ever I’m in the house and my wife is out I’ll always watch one if they’re on. Even the later ones are class.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I think it is time we all looked to Malta for Covid vaccination success. They have achieved the impossible.

    According to their own government website, they are the only country where the number of people who are fully vaccinated (72.5%) exceeds the number who have received at least one dose (72.1%).

    Edit to add: the data is easier to see on the EU page - https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#national-ref-tab

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%
    I take it back. It appears that Malta is not the only country to have achieved the impossible. Indeed, it's clear that Gibraltar's impossible is even more impossible than Malta's.

    It's also very clear that if you want Covid vaccination success, you need the letters "lta" consecutively in your place name.
    Join the British Empire: achieve the impossible?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    Euro 2020 Betfair outright prices and their implied probabilities:-
    1 England 2.66 37.6%
    2 Italy 3.25 30.8%
    3 Spain 4.3 23.3%
    4 Denmark 11 9.1%

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    Delta update - Son, double jabbed and having suffered covid last year and his girlfriend (double jabbed) are both now on anti biotics

    He describes this bout of covid as "far, far worse than the first one"

    Lumme

    Does he note any major differences in symptoms?

    Sympathies to both of them; they are an interesting example
    Last time he was rough for 48 hours tops - this time its longer than that - he seemed a bit better yesterday but not so good today.

    Temperature is better - 37.1 earlier - sats at 94 last reading

    He says he has only lost his sense of taste today

    He is young but has some severe health issues which are a concern
    The viral phase either gets better in a week, or switches to the more dangerous inflammatory phase, so if worsening then it does need to be taken very seriously. May well need in person assessment.
    Thanks Foxy - I was really worried when his sats were below 90 - I'm happier that he is in touch regularly with NHS - although all on phone.


    As an aside - track and trace have been active in checking that he has stayed at home - not that he is even thinking of going out right now
    Pleased to hear the £37 billion we've spaffed on track and trace is not wholly wasted. GWS.

    You will be even more pleased to know they have rung him more than once :smiley:
    Even for TalkTalk £37 billion for one phone call seemed a bit on the high side.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    Delta update - Son, double jabbed and having suffered covid last year and his girlfriend (double jabbed) are both now on anti biotics

    He describes this bout of covid as "far, far worse than the first one"

    Lumme

    Does he note any major differences in symptoms?

    Sympathies to both of them; they are an interesting example
    Last time he was rough for 48 hours tops - this time its longer than that - he seemed a bit better yesterday but not so good today.

    Temperature is better - 37.1 earlier - sats at 94 last reading

    He says he has only lost his sense of taste today

    He is young but has some severe health issues which are a concern
    The viral phase either gets better in a week, or switches to the more dangerous inflammatory phase, so if worsening then it does need to be taken very seriously. May well need in person assessment.
    Thanks Foxy - I was really worried when his sats were below 90 - I'm happier that he is in touch regularly with NHS - although all on phone.


    As an aside - track and trace have been active in checking that he has stayed at home - not that he is even thinking of going out right now
    Pleased to hear the £37 billion we've spaffed on track and trace is not wholly wasted. GWS.

    You will be even more pleased to know they have rung him more than once :smiley:
    A friend of mine caught covid a few weeks back. Felt absolutely awful. The only time he wasn't suffering was when he was asleep. Which made it especially annoying when T&T rang him every single day at 8am.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Columbo is one of the best TV series ever in my opinion.
    +1,000

    They are almost all available on-line, and the first half dozen seasons are fantastic.

    Fact for the day: the very first ever Columbo episode, Murder by the Book (1971) was directed by Steven Spielberg, when he was just 24 years old.
    Whatever happened to him....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    I couldn't book my Pfizer part 2 any earlier than Monday 19th July, exactly 8 weeks after my first.

    I'll be keeping a low-profile through the rest of July* until the DV effect kicks in because I expect the world to go crazy as soon as the restrictions are lifted.

    (*this might be difficult as I have to stay over one night in ground zero, Leeds, on 23rd July)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Not sure what to think of tonight's Semi-Final. Both teams playing are absolutely top class nations that would be a worthy opponent if we can make it to the final.

    Possibly hope it goes through to Penalties, though whoever wins tonight has one more day to recover anyway than we would if we go through, so even that probably won't make any difference.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Columbo is one of the best TV series ever in my opinion.
    +1,000

    They are almost all available on-line, and the first half dozen seasons are fantastic.

    Fact for the day: the very first ever Columbo episode, Murder by the Book (1971) was directed by Steven Spielberg, when he was just 24 years old.
    Hey, my wife loves ya.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    Delta update - Son, double jabbed and having suffered covid last year and his girlfriend (double jabbed) are both now on anti biotics

    He describes this bout of covid as "far, far worse than the first one"

    Lumme

    Does he note any major differences in symptoms?

    Sympathies to both of them; they are an interesting example
    Last time he was rough for 48 hours tops - this time its longer than that - he seemed a bit better yesterday but not so good today.

    Temperature is better - 37.1 earlier - sats at 94 last reading

    He says he has only lost his sense of taste today

    He is young but has some severe health issues which are a concern
    The viral phase either gets better in a week, or switches to the more dangerous inflammatory phase, so if worsening then it does need to be taken very seriously. May well need in person assessment.
    Thanks Foxy - I was really worried when his sats were below 90 - I'm happier that he is in touch regularly with NHS - although all on phone.


    As an aside - track and trace have been active in checking that he has stayed at home - not that he is even thinking of going out right now
    Pleased to hear the £37 billion we've spaffed on track and trace is not wholly wasted. GWS.

    You will be even more pleased to know they have rung him more than once :smiley:
    Even for TalkTalk £37 billion for one phone call seemed a bit on the high side.
    That's @TheScreamingEagles 's data roaming bill.

    Hope the Stepmum was worth it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited July 2021

    Not sure what to think of tonight's Semi-Final. Both teams playing are absolutely top class nations that would be a worthy opponent if we can make it to the final.

    Possibly hope it goes through to Penalties, though whoever wins tonight has one more day to recover anyway than we would if we go through, so even that probably won't make any difference.

    England will want Spain rather than Italy. 120 mins and penalties, perhaps some injuries or sending offs even better.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Columbo is one of the best TV series ever in my opinion.
    +1,000

    They are almost all available on-line, and the first half dozen seasons are fantastic.

    Fact for the day: the very first ever Columbo episode, Murder by the Book (1971) was directed by Steven Spielberg, when he was just 24 years old.
    Hey, my wife loves ya.
    Its great how many classic shows are now available online.

    My wife was recently delighted to discover the Golden Girls on Disney+
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    It's a bit more complicated than that, per Wikipedia. It seems Ptolemy or his Arabic translators garbled their units of distance? Also, have you sailed the trade winds route from the canaries to the Caribbean? I have and it's not as easy as it looks, even with GPS and a booking at the Bay Gardens hotel on st Lucia awaiting you
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Before this site devolves into a group of football fans down the boozer, a thought or two on the passing of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill in the Commons last evening.

    There's some good and valid points in it but it's one of those pieces of legislation which is ruined by one "controversial" area - the change to the law on protest.

    The woolly and wide-ranging definition of "intimidation or harassment" or "serious unease, alarm or distress to bystanders" gives the Police, in theory, huge powers. It's no surprise this Government and this Home Secretary think there are votes to be won by looking and sounding "tough" on protest.

    Whether it's a response to the "culture wars" (whatever they are) or to individuals protesting near to Parliament, it seems an absurd misuse of State power to close down what is, so I thought, the right within a democratic society to protest.

    Now, I'm in no way condoning criminal damage or thuggery and of course the Police must intervene if violence takes over but what constitutes "serious unease, alarm or distress"? Presumably I could argue the beggar on the Tube is causing me "unease" so they can be removed.

    Theoretically, this power could have bene used to curtail the Anti-Iraq War march or the Countryside Alliance protest or indeed almost any other gathering or in theory an individual ranting at Speaker's Corner.

    Apart from the shameless pandering to the frightened, what else does this Government think it will achieve? I suppose one will argue the streets will be more peaceful but when we have a non-Conservative Government and Conservatives wish to protest against a piece of Government legislation, they'll presumably be happy to be arrested and prosecuted under this law?

    Theoretically I am all for the right to protest and we should all be in a democracy. Indeed have been on more than a few myself. However I am ambivalent about this for one simple reason. Protests never changed a damn thing in this country. All they do at best is make headlines and at worst decline into property damage and violence.

    If protests changed anything then I would be up in arms about this bill. As they don't I tend to go meh.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Statue toppling is the ultimate virtue-signal; it's what happens when you take social media censure, invective and cancel culture into the real world.

    These obsessives are secretly delighted such statues of the impure exist, or else they couldn't make a name for themselves.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    Cookie said:

    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    Delta update - Son, double jabbed and having suffered covid last year and his girlfriend (double jabbed) are both now on anti biotics

    He describes this bout of covid as "far, far worse than the first one"

    Lumme

    Does he note any major differences in symptoms?

    Sympathies to both of them; they are an interesting example
    Last time he was rough for 48 hours tops - this time its longer than that - he seemed a bit better yesterday but not so good today.

    Temperature is better - 37.1 earlier - sats at 94 last reading

    He says he has only lost his sense of taste today

    He is young but has some severe health issues which are a concern
    The viral phase either gets better in a week, or switches to the more dangerous inflammatory phase, so if worsening then it does need to be taken very seriously. May well need in person assessment.
    Thanks Foxy - I was really worried when his sats were below 90 - I'm happier that he is in touch regularly with NHS - although all on phone.


    As an aside - track and trace have been active in checking that he has stayed at home - not that he is even thinking of going out right now
    Pleased to hear the £37 billion we've spaffed on track and trace is not wholly wasted. GWS.

    You will be even more pleased to know they have rung him more than once :smiley:
    A friend of mine caught covid a few weeks back. Felt absolutely awful. The only time he wasn't suffering was when he was asleep. Which made it especially annoying when T&T rang him every single day at 8am.
    Turner & Townsend?

    So glad I turned a job offer of theirs down.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    Delta update - Son, double jabbed and having suffered covid last year and his girlfriend (double jabbed) are both now on anti biotics

    He describes this bout of covid as "far, far worse than the first one"

    Lumme

    Does he note any major differences in symptoms?

    Sympathies to both of them; they are an interesting example
    Last time he was rough for 48 hours tops - this time its longer than that - he seemed a bit better yesterday but not so good today.

    Temperature is better - 37.1 earlier - sats at 94 last reading

    He says he has only lost his sense of taste today

    He is young but has some severe health issues which are a concern
    The viral phase either gets better in a week, or switches to the more dangerous inflammatory phase, so if worsening then it does need to be taken very seriously. May well need in person assessment.
    Thanks Foxy - I was really worried when his sats were below 90 - I'm happier that he is in touch regularly with NHS - although all on phone.


    As an aside - track and trace have been active in checking that he has stayed at home - not that he is even thinking of going out right now
    Pleased to hear the £37 billion we've spaffed on track and trace is not wholly wasted. GWS.

    https://fullfact.org/online/37bn-test-trace-spending/
    Not quite as bad as when the FT thought the entire NHS diagnostic budget was going to be used on testing.
    So £20 billion up to April and what we have to show for it is one PBer's ill son getting a phone call, whereas the equivalent programmes in the Far East seem to have suppressed Covid quite effectively. But no doubt that's an unfair comparison because they are mindless automatons and we are an international transport hub or something.
    Don't they have mass surveillance there? Good luck trying to enforce that in the UK.
    London comes third in the cctv camera league table.
    https://www.comparitech.com/vpn-privacy/the-worlds-most-surveilled-cities/

    There really ought to be an inquiry into what has gone wrong with track and trace. It is ruinously expensive and there is little to show for it compared with the Far East. As I understand it, one important design issue we may have got wrong is whether to trace forwards or backwards: in other words, are you trying to work out where Patient X caught Covid, or who he might have given it to? Beyond that there are some implementation issues like dodgy apps, call centres and test labs but those are secondary imo. Or rather, they answer separate parts of the question: why is T&T so expensive, and why doesn't it work?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,828

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    Delta update - Son, double jabbed and having suffered covid last year and his girlfriend (double jabbed) are both now on anti biotics

    He describes this bout of covid as "far, far worse than the first one"

    Lumme

    Does he note any major differences in symptoms?

    Sympathies to both of them; they are an interesting example
    Last time he was rough for 48 hours tops - this time its longer than that - he seemed a bit better yesterday but not so good today.

    Temperature is better - 37.1 earlier - sats at 94 last reading

    He says he has only lost his sense of taste today

    He is young but has some severe health issues which are a concern
    The viral phase either gets better in a week, or switches to the more dangerous inflammatory phase, so if worsening then it does need to be taken very seriously. May well need in person assessment.
    Thanks Foxy - I was really worried when his sats were below 90 - I'm happier that he is in touch regularly with NHS - although all on phone.


    As an aside - track and trace have been active in checking that he has stayed at home - not that he is even thinking of going out right now
    Pleased to hear the £37 billion we've spaffed on track and trace is not wholly wasted. GWS.

    https://fullfact.org/online/37bn-test-trace-spending/
    Not quite as bad as when the FT thought the entire NHS diagnostic budget was going to be used on testing.
    So £20 billion up to April and what we have to show for it is one PBer's ill son getting a phone call, whereas the equivalent programmes in the Far East seem to have suppressed Covid quite effectively. But no doubt that's an unfair comparison because they are mindless automatons and we are an international transport hub or something.
    Don't they have mass surveillance there? Good luck trying to enforce that in the UK.
    London comes third in the cctv camera league table.
    https://www.comparitech.com/vpn-privacy/the-worlds-most-surveilled-cities/

    There really ought to be an inquiry into what has gone wrong with track and trace. It is ruinously expensive and there is little to show for it compared with the Far East. As I understand it, one important design issue we may have got wrong is whether to trace forwards or backwards: in other words, are you trying to work out where Patient X caught Covid, or who he might have given it to? Beyond that there are some implementation issues like dodgy apps, call centres and test labs but those are secondary imo. Or rather, they answer separate parts of the question: why is T&T so expensive, and why doesn't it work?
    Eh, I doubt CCTVs are all that effective at tracing where one person is. Looking up CC records, as done in some Far East countries? Far more effective.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Nigelb said:

    Culture war tactics I almost approve of...

    Movement grows to replace statues of Columbus with ones dedicated to a more respected figure—TV detective Lieutenant Columbo
    https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/movement-grows-to-replace-statues-of-columbus-with-ones-dedicated-to-a-more-respected-figure-tv-detective-lieutenant-columbo
    ...“Through a better understanding of history, Christopher Columbus no longer represents the values we wish to instill on future generations, yet monuments of this controversial figure are still in place throughout the country,” the organiser Ryan Toohey says. “We should replace the Columbus statue in Detroit with that of someone we can all admire; someone who always pursued truth and justice—Columbo. With only slight modifications to the plaque and the addition of a frumpy coat to the original statue, we can transform a symbol of hate into a beacon of hope.”...

    Everybody thought Columbus was an idiot. They were right.

    He miscalculated the size of the Earth, getting a value about half the true value and so thought that India/China (he basically thought they were the same) and so thought that India was only a few thousand km west of Portugal.

    That is why the native people of the Americas were called Indians for so long, and why we talk about the West Indies: Columbus died convinced that he had found India.
    Statue toppling is the ultimate virtue-signal; it's what happens when you take social media censure, invective and cancel culture into the real world.

    These obsessives are secretly delighted such statues of the impure exist, or else they couldn't make a name for themselves.
    Do you object to statues of Leopold, Stalin, Hussein... coming down?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I think it is time we all looked to Malta for Covid vaccination success. They have achieved the impossible.

    According to their own government website, they are the only country where the number of people who are fully vaccinated (72.5%) exceeds the number who have received at least one dose (72.1%).

    Edit to add: the data is easier to see on the EU page - https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#national-ref-tab

    Bunch of slackers

    Gibralter has

    1st dose - 116%
    2nd dose - 115%
    I take it back. It appears that Malta is not the only country to have achieved the impossible. Indeed, it's clear that Gibraltar's impossible is even more impossible than Malta's.

    It's also very clear that if you want Covid vaccination success, you need the letters "lta" consecutively in your place name.
    Or to be a small rocky outcrop in the Med that has a complex relationship with the Brits?
This discussion has been closed.