Following LAB’s narrow Batley victory Starmer moves up in the next PM betting – politicalbetting.com

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Following LAB’s narrow Batley victory Starmer moves up in the next PM betting – politicalbetting.com

As expected Starmer has got something of a boost in the Betfair next PM betting following his party’s narrow victory to hold onto Batley in the early hours of yesterday morning.

Read the full story here

FrancisUrquhart

Stuartinromford said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Stuartinromford said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

West, who is a member of the Scientific Pandemic Insights Group on Behaviours, which advises Sage, said: “The most serious problem is that if you have a situation where not everyone has been even offered the vaccine then you’ve already got clearly a huge unfairness.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/03/allowing-people-in-england-with-covid-both-jabs-to-skip-quarantine-will-cause-resentment

But we haven't...so.....

Yes I know some can't have it etc, but 90 odd percentage of people have. And second doses won't be long now for people who want that.

Trouble is that we aren't at 90 percent of people yet.

According to ourworldindata.org, we're at about 67% of people for first dose and 50% fully dosed. That's good (and most of those who haven't been jabbed are young and mostly at very low personal risk), but it's still a lot of people who have yet to be offered a vaccination.

And there's not a huge amount to be done about any of that now until the second Pfizer order comes on-stream (at the end of August?)

That is total population, not adults. Adults its 86% / 63%. We will get to 80%+ total in the near future. Every adult (excluding the rare cases of medical issues) have been offered first jab and its max 8 weeks for 2nd dose. They are also talking about altering the rules for school kids, regardless of vaccination status.

So in a few weeks we really just be talking about refuseniks. If they feel its "unfair", well they can do something about it.

Children are people, too. And perfectly capable of getting infected and getting sick and passing it on to others. Viruses don't look at dates of birth, after all.

We are impressively damn close to herd immunity by vaccination. But we're clearly not there yet. And the 40 million Pfizer doses in the first order (so 20 million people) aren't quite enough to get us there either... hence the interest in doing a vaccine time swap with Israel.

That wasn't the argument....

It was about people having to quarantine when double jabbed or not. The egghead was saying no you can't do that, there will be widespread resentment if you let some people avoid it and others not.

But the point is all adults have or will soon be double jabbed. And they are talking about changing the rules around quarantine for kids.

So...the only people who would be forced to do the full quarantine and "it is unfair for" are refuseniks. We can't continually shape public policy around the 10-15% of adults who just won't do what the rest of the country has, because they might feel hard done by.

Sandpit

Second, like Lando Norris.

TheScreamingEagles

Football's coming home tonight.

I hope.

FrancisUrquhart

TheScreamingEagles said:

Football's coming home tonight.

I hope.

Well the footballers are coming home tonight.....

stodge

Evening all

As an antidote to sport, this evening's European polling focuses on another non-EU member - Norway, which votes on 13 September.

The Latest IPSOS poll (changes from the 2017 election):

Labour Party: 24% (-3)
Conservative Party: 21% (-4)
Centre Party: 19% (+9)
Progress Party: 7% (-8)
Socialist Left Party: 7% (+1)
Red Party: 6% (+3.5)
Green Party: 5% (+2)
Liberal Party: 3% (-1)
Christian People's Party: 3% (-1.5)

The governing coalition of Conservative, Liberal and Christian People's Party is down 6.5% on 2017. The obvious alternative Government is Labour plus Centre plus Socialist Left which would command a majority on these numbers.

That was the coalition of the Stoltenberg era from 2005-2013 which was replaced by the centre-right coalition led by Erna Solberg which has governed Norway since the 2013 GE.

Casino_Royale

TheScreamingEagles said:

Football's coming home tonight.

I hope.

I've put a tenner on Ukraine at 55s for the win.

Thinking is that if they are 1-0 up against England about 65-70 mins in then their odds will come down to 12s and I can lay off again. And if the worst happens I've got a bit of a consolation fund.

Longshot but not impossible and it makes tonight a tad more interesting.

solarflare

FrancisUrquhart said:

Stuartinromford said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Stuartinromford said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

West, who is a member of the Scientific Pandemic Insights Group on Behaviours, which advises Sage, said: “The most serious problem is that if you have a situation where not everyone has been even offered the vaccine then you’ve already got clearly a huge unfairness.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/03/allowing-people-in-england-with-covid-both-jabs-to-skip-quarantine-will-cause-resentment

But we haven't...so.....

Yes I know some can't have it etc, but 90 odd percentage of people have. And second doses won't be long now for people who want that.

Trouble is that we aren't at 90 percent of people yet.

According to ourworldindata.org, we're at about 67% of people for first dose and 50% fully dosed. That's good (and most of those who haven't been jabbed are young and mostly at very low personal risk), but it's still a lot of people who have yet to be offered a vaccination.

And there's not a huge amount to be done about any of that now until the second Pfizer order comes on-stream (at the end of August?)

That is total population, not adults. Adults its 86% / 63%. We will get to 80%+ total in the near future. Every adult (excluding the rare cases of medical issues) have been offered first jab and its max 8 weeks for 2nd dose. They are also talking about altering the rules for school kids, regardless of vaccination status.

So in a few weeks we really just be talking about refuseniks. If they feel its "unfair", well they can do something about it.

Children are people, too. And perfectly capable of getting infected and getting sick and passing it on to others. Viruses don't look at dates of birth, after all.

We are impressively damn close to herd immunity by vaccination. But we're clearly not there yet. And the 40 million Pfizer doses in the first order (so 20 million people) aren't quite enough to get us there either... hence the interest in doing a vaccine time swap with Israel.

That wasn't the argument....

It was about people having to quarantine when double jabbed or not. The egghead was saying no you can't do that, there will be widespread resentment if you let some people avoid it and others not.

But the point is all adults have or will soon be double jabbed. And they are talking about changing the rules around quarantine for kids.

So...the only people who would be forced to do the full quarantine and "it is unfair for" are refuseniks. We can't continually shape public policy around the 10-15% of adults who just won't do what the rest of the country has, because they might feel hard done by.

Of course said expert didn't say anything about the resentment generated the other way round, by double vaccinated people still having to isolate.

It just felt like the latest in an increasingly long series of instances of grasping at reasons why we should continue to restrict everything forever.

Pulpstar

FrancisUrquhart said:

Stuartinromford said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Stuartinromford said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

West, who is a member of the Scientific Pandemic Insights Group on Behaviours, which advises Sage, said: “The most serious problem is that if you have a situation where not everyone has been even offered the vaccine then you’ve already got clearly a huge unfairness.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/03/allowing-people-in-england-with-covid-both-jabs-to-skip-quarantine-will-cause-resentment

But we haven't...so.....

Yes I know some can't have it etc, but 90 odd percentage of people have. And second doses won't be long now for people who want that.

Trouble is that we aren't at 90 percent of people yet.

According to ourworldindata.org, we're at about 67% of people for first dose and 50% fully dosed. That's good (and most of those who haven't been jabbed are young and mostly at very low personal risk), but it's still a lot of people who have yet to be offered a vaccination.

And there's not a huge amount to be done about any of that now until the second Pfizer order comes on-stream (at the end of August?)

That is total population, not adults. Adults its 86% / 63%. We will get to 80%+ total in the near future. Every adult (excluding the rare cases of medical issues) have been offered first jab and its max 8 weeks for 2nd dose. They are also talking about altering the rules for school kids, regardless of vaccination status.

So in a few weeks we really just be talking about refuseniks. If they feel its "unfair", well they can do something about it.

Children are people, too. And perfectly capable of getting infected and getting sick and passing it on to others. Viruses don't look at dates of birth, after all.

We are impressively damn close to herd immunity by vaccination. But we're clearly not there yet. And the 40 million Pfizer doses in the first order (so 20 million people) aren't quite enough to get us there either... hence the interest in doing a vaccine time swap with Israel.

That wasn't the argument....

It was about people having to quarantine when double jabbed or not. The egghead was saying no you can't do that, there will be widespread resentment if you let some people avoid it and others not.

But the point is all adults have or will soon be double jabbed. And they are talking about changing the rules around quarantine for kids.

So...the only people who would be forced to do the full quarantine and "it is unfair for" are refuseniks. We can't continually shape public policy around the 10-15% of adults who just won't do what the rest of the country has, because they might feel hard done by.

The only people not double jabbed soon will be either the ultra-cautious (pregnant women avoiding both vaccination and covid), those who don't believe in vaccination full stop (Will they even bother with the NHS app - probably not) and the young(ish) who will get it soon; or kids.
In practice it's a de facto end to isolation for everyone.

Sandpit

FrancisUrquhart said:

Stuartinromford said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Stuartinromford said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

West, who is a member of the Scientific Pandemic Insights Group on Behaviours, which advises Sage, said: “The most serious problem is that if you have a situation where not everyone has been even offered the vaccine then you’ve already got clearly a huge unfairness.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/03/allowing-people-in-england-with-covid-both-jabs-to-skip-quarantine-will-cause-resentment

But we haven't...so.....

Yes I know some can't have it etc, but 90 odd percentage of people have. And second doses won't be long now for people who want that.

Trouble is that we aren't at 90 percent of people yet.

According to ourworldindata.org, we're at about 67% of people for first dose and 50% fully dosed. That's good (and most of those who haven't been jabbed are young and mostly at very low personal risk), but it's still a lot of people who have yet to be offered a vaccination.

And there's not a huge amount to be done about any of that now until the second Pfizer order comes on-stream (at the end of August?)

That is total population, not adults. Adults its 86% / 63%. We will get to 80%+ total in the near future. Every adult (excluding the rare cases of medical issues) have been offered first jab and its max 8 weeks for 2nd dose. They are also talking about altering the rules for school kids, regardless of vaccination status.

So in a few weeks we really just be talking about refuseniks. If they feel its "unfair", well they can do something about it.

Children are people, too. And perfectly capable of getting infected and getting sick and passing it on to others. Viruses don't look at dates of birth, after all.

We are impressively damn close to herd immunity by vaccination. But we're clearly not there yet. And the 40 million Pfizer doses in the first order (so 20 million people) aren't quite enough to get us there either... hence the interest in doing a vaccine time swap with Israel.

That wasn't the argument....

It was about people having to quarantine when double jabbed or not. The egghead was saying no you can't do that, there will be widespread resentment if you let some people avoid it and others not.

But the point is all adults have or will soon be double jabbed. And they are talking about changing the rules around quarantine for kids.

So...the only people who would be forced to do the full quarantine and "it is unfair for" are refuseniks. We can't continually shape public policy around the 10-15% of adults who just won't do what the rest of the country has, because they might feel hard done by.

As soon as everyone’s been offered the vaccines, there will be discrimination. Most likely around international travel - vaccinated = test and release, not-vaccinated = test and quarantine.

FrancisUrquhart

solarflare said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Stuartinromford said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Stuartinromford said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

West, who is a member of the Scientific Pandemic Insights Group on Behaviours, which advises Sage, said: “The most serious problem is that if you have a situation where not everyone has been even offered the vaccine then you’ve already got clearly a huge unfairness.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/03/allowing-people-in-england-with-covid-both-jabs-to-skip-quarantine-will-cause-resentment

But we haven't...so.....

Yes I know some can't have it etc, but 90 odd percentage of people have. And second doses won't be long now for people who want that.

Trouble is that we aren't at 90 percent of people yet.

According to ourworldindata.org, we're at about 67% of people for first dose and 50% fully dosed. That's good (and most of those who haven't been jabbed are young and mostly at very low personal risk), but it's still a lot of people who have yet to be offered a vaccination.

And there's not a huge amount to be done about any of that now until the second Pfizer order comes on-stream (at the end of August?)

That is total population, not adults. Adults its 86% / 63%. We will get to 80%+ total in the near future. Every adult (excluding the rare cases of medical issues) have been offered first jab and its max 8 weeks for 2nd dose. They are also talking about altering the rules for school kids, regardless of vaccination status.

So in a few weeks we really just be talking about refuseniks. If they feel its "unfair", well they can do something about it.

Children are people, too. And perfectly capable of getting infected and getting sick and passing it on to others. Viruses don't look at dates of birth, after all.

We are impressively damn close to herd immunity by vaccination. But we're clearly not there yet. And the 40 million Pfizer doses in the first order (so 20 million people) aren't quite enough to get us there either... hence the interest in doing a vaccine time swap with Israel.

That wasn't the argument....

It was about people having to quarantine when double jabbed or not. The egghead was saying no you can't do that, there will be widespread resentment if you let some people avoid it and others not.

But the point is all adults have or will soon be double jabbed. And they are talking about changing the rules around quarantine for kids.

So...the only people who would be forced to do the full quarantine and "it is unfair for" are refuseniks. We can't continually shape public policy around the 10-15% of adults who just won't do what the rest of the country has, because they might feel hard done by.

Of course said expert didn't say anything about the resentment generated the other way round, by double vaccinated people still having to isolate.

It just felt like the latest in an increasingly long series of instances of grasping at reasons why we should continue to restrict everything forever.

I am surprised he didn't deploy the old racism card....

DecrepiterJohnL

Starmer shortens because his position is shored up by Batley and Spen but is that countered by making Boris less likely to fight the next election? If Boris retires or is forced out then the next Prime Minister will come from the Conservative Party.

Casino_Royale

What's happened once the football has come home?

I mean, it doesn't stay home, does it?

TheScreamingEagles

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Football's coming home tonight.

I hope.

Well the footballers are coming home tonight.....

Full disclosure.

I've got big reds against Spain and England, and a nice green against Italy for winning the tournament.

But my patriotism outweighs my betting portfolio.

MaxPB

Stuartinromford said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Stuartinromford said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

West, who is a member of the Scientific Pandemic Insights Group on Behaviours, which advises Sage, said: “The most serious problem is that if you have a situation where not everyone has been even offered the vaccine then you’ve already got clearly a huge unfairness.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/03/allowing-people-in-england-with-covid-both-jabs-to-skip-quarantine-will-cause-resentment

But we haven't...so.....

Yes I know some can't have it etc, but 90 odd percentage of people have. And second doses won't be long now for people who want that.

Trouble is that we aren't at 90 percent of people yet.

According to ourworldindata.org, we're at about 67% of people for first dose and 50% fully dosed. That's good (and most of those who haven't been jabbed are young and mostly at very low personal risk), but it's still a lot of people who have yet to be offered a vaccination.

And there's not a huge amount to be done about any of that now until the second Pfizer order comes on-stream (at the end of August?)

That is total population, not adults. Adults its 86% / 63%. We will get to 80%+ total in the near future. Every adult (excluding the rare cases of medical issues) have been offered first jab and its max 8 weeks for 2nd dose. They are also talking about altering the rules for school kids, regardless of vaccination status.

So in a few weeks we really just be talking about refuseniks. If they feel its "unfair", well they can do something about it.

Children are people, too. And perfectly capable of getting infected and getting sick and passing it on to others. Viruses don't look at dates of birth, after all.

We are impressively damn close to herd immunity by vaccination. But we're clearly not there yet. And the 40 million Pfizer doses in the first order (so 20 million people) aren't quite enough to get us there either... hence the interest in doing a vaccine time swap with Israel.

Happily the 60m Pfizer order has commenced deliveries.

GarethoftheVale2

I see in Miami they are worried that the rest of the condo building may collapse and that a hurricane may be on the way so they are planning a controlled demolition and will cover the existing rubble with tarp.

Seems unlikely they'll find anyone alive now

solarflare

Casino_Royale said:

What's happened once the football has come home?

I mean, it doesn't stay home, does it?

It will never be decided who has finally won the football.

TheScreamingEagles

Casino_Royale said:

What's happened once the football has come home?

I mean, it doesn't stay home, does it?

It does, we get to mention it for years.

So 'it' stays home.

DecrepiterJohnL

Casino_Royale said:

What's happened once the football has come home?

I mean, it doesn't stay home, does it?

The final and both semi-finals will be played at Wembley, so yes, football will stay home. And England will win.

ping

solarflare said:

Casino_Royale said:

What's happened once the football has come home?

I mean, it doesn't stay home, does it?

It will never be decided who has finally won the football.

Classic!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MusyO7J2inM

MaxPB

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

What's happened once the football has come home?

I mean, it doesn't stay home, does it?

It does, we get to mention it for years.

So 'it' stays home.

I think we'd need to win a(nother) world cup for that.

Sandpit

F1: three place penalty for Vettel, George Russell starts 8th!
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-document/2021 Austrian Grand Prix - Offence - Car 5 - Impeding car 14.pdf

alex_

Like The Ashes

Leon

Emma Raducanu is

Well, she is, isn’t she?

No point denying it

Fwwooooo

Scott_xP

Leon said:

Emma Raducanu is

Well, she is, isn’t she?

No point denying it

Fwwooooo

A couple of years older than your daughter?

Foxy

Leon said:

Emma Raducanu is

Well, she is, isn’t she?

No point denying it

Fwwooooo

Just taken her A levels...

Sandpit

I still find it amazing, that Three Lions “30 years of hurt” was recorded 25 years ago. Being born in 1977, events before that time seem much further in the past than they actually were.

Leon

Scott_xP said:

Leon said:

Emma Raducanu is

Well, she is, isn’t she?

No point denying it

Fwwooooo

A couple of years older than your daughter?

Honi soit qui mal y pense!

alex_

ping said:

solarflare said:

Casino_Royale said:

What's happened once the football has come home?

I mean, it doesn't stay home, does it?

It will never be decided who has finally won the football.

Classic!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MusyO7J2inM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QXOKsJViHtY

OldKingCole

I suggest that a significant thought in the header is that no other party is going to make a deal which would keep a Johnson-led, or even ‘Johnson-ite’ Tory party in power. Somehow some sort of non-Tory administration will emerge after the next election, unless the Tories can govern alone.

TheScreamingEagles

I was the Olimpico stadium three years ago, it was a bonkers match.

I think my heart rate went past 120.

Can I please have a non stressful match.

Casino_Royale

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

What's happened once the football has come home?

I mean, it doesn't stay home, does it?

It does, we get to mention it for years.

So 'it' stays home.

So it's actually been home since 1966 then?

TheScreamingEagles

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

alex_

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

What's happened once the football has come home?

I mean, it doesn't stay home, does it?

It does, we get to mention it for years.

So 'it' stays home.

So it's actually been home since 1966 then?

Since 1863.

Although you really believe the story about Pickles “finding” the “stolen” World Cup trophy?

TheScreamingEagles

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

What's happened once the football has come home?

I mean, it doesn't stay home, does it?

It does, we get to mention it for years.

So 'it' stays home.

So it's actually been home since 1966 then?

Well according to the Scots it left in 1967, for Scotland.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/scotland/406212/day-scotland-beat-england-become-unofficial-world-football-champions/

Sandpit

OldKingCole said:

I suggest that a significant thought in the header is that no other party is going to make a deal which would keep a Johnson-led, or even ‘Johnson-ite’ Tory party in power. Somehow some sort of non-Tory administration will emerge after the next election, unless the Tories can govern alone.

The “coalition of chaos” argument worked in 2015, and there’s little to suggest it wouldn’t work again. The very idea of the SNP in coalition, is worth a couple of dozen Tory seats in England, even if in practice a number of Labour MPs would defy the whip on the Scottish referendum vote.

Casino_Royale

alex_ said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

What's happened once the football has come home?

I mean, it doesn't stay home, does it?

It does, we get to mention it for years.

So 'it' stays home.

So it's actually been home since 1966 then?

Since 1863.

Although you really believe the story about Pickles “finding” the “stolen” World Cup trophy?

I had to google Jules Rimet.

I had no idea who he was.

ThomasNashe

Casino_Royale said:

alex_ said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

What's happened once the football has come home?

I mean, it doesn't stay home, does it?

It does, we get to mention it for years.

So 'it' stays home.

So it's actually been home since 1966 then?

Since 1863.

Although you really believe the story about Pickles “finding” the “stolen” World Cup trophy?

I had to google Jules Rimet.

I had no idea who he was.

It’s not gleaming anymore, having most likely been melted down by Brazilian thieves.

Sandpit

So it’s Denmark in the semis, if we beat the Ukrainians tonight.

DecrepiterJohnL

Then there were five. Euro 2020 Betfair prices. Italy now clear favourites.

1 Italy 3.2 31.2%
2 England 3.35 29.9%
3 Spain 3.75 26.7%
4 Denmark 8.6 11.6%
5 Ukraine 55 1.8%

IanB2

In other news, Britain’s third biggest participation sporting event went successfully today.

FrancisUrquhart

Sandpit said:

So it’s Denmark in the semis, IF we beat the Ukrainians tonight.

....

ManchesterKurt

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

I posted about this the other day, people looking for reasons to think it was not true in response.

NHS in real trouble around here.

solarflare

IanB2 said:

In other news, Britain’s third biggest participation sporting event went successfully today.

Surely the half-time "hundred metre amble to the kettle" is still to take place

Pulpstar

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

GPs shitting the bed.

Foxy

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

Waits at Leicester ED are worse than I have known, as are waiting lists. I don't think the public have realised how shattered NHS services are. Normal is a long way off.

IanB2

solarflare said:

IanB2 said:

In other news, Britain’s third biggest participation sporting event went successfully today.

Surely the half-time "hundred metre amble to the kettle" is still to take place

Not everyone’s house is as big as yours?

dixiedean

This board is like Grandstand used to be.
Only better.

solarflare

IanB2 said:

solarflare said:

IanB2 said:

In other news, Britain’s third biggest participation sporting event went successfully today.

Surely the half-time "hundred metre amble to the kettle" is still to take place

Not everyone’s house is as big as yours?

To be fair that's why I ask the butler to just bring it to me.

OldKingCole

Sandpit said:

OldKingCole said:

I suggest that a significant thought in the header is that no other party is going to make a deal which would keep a Johnson-led, or even ‘Johnson-ite’ Tory party in power. Somehow some sort of non-Tory administration will emerge after the next election, unless the Tories can govern alone.

The “coalition of chaos” argument worked in 2015, and there’s little to suggest it wouldn’t work again. The very idea of the SNP in coalition, is worth a couple of dozen Tory seats in England, even if in practice a number of Labour MPs would defy the whip on the Scottish referendum vote.

Worked in LD held seats, but will Johnson be held in the esteem Cameron was. And will Starmer make the mistakes Milliband did?

Casino_Royale

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

My view is that it'll take five years to recover for every one year of Covid measures; that applies to both health and education.

So this will affect most of the 2020s IMHO.

ManchesterKurt

Foxy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

Waits at Leicester EED are worse than I have known, as are waiting lists. I don't think the public have realised how shattered NHS services are. Normal is a long way off.

My wife remains in 24/7 considerable discomfort and pain.

She is in the priority group for an op to hopefully reduce this only below those on the waiting list whose lives are in imminent danger if they do not get surgery.

Still no date.

ManchesterKurt

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

My view is that it'll take five years to recover for every one year of Covid measures; that applies to both health and education.

So this will affect most of the 2020s IMHO.

and millions of lives will be badly scarred as a result of allowing this to be the case.

kinabalu

TheScreamingEagles said:

Football's coming home tonight.

I hope.

Will be continuing its journey anyway. It's made Calais now and will be buying a ticket for the boat train.

I have multiple beers in, an enormous bowl of crisps, and have donned my England shirt - the classic 66 one.

There's nothing to fear but fear itself.

⚽✊☺

dixiedean

Duplicate.

malcolmg

TheScreamingEagles said:

Football's coming home tonight.

I hope.

Get your money on Ukraine, in to 13-2 but still easy money

Gallowgate

ManchesterKurt said:

Foxy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

Waits at Leicester EED are worse than I have known, as are waiting lists. I don't think the public have realised how shattered NHS services are. Normal is a long way off.

My wife remains in 24/7 considerable discomfort and pain.

She is in the priority group for an op to hopefully reduce this only below those on the waiting list whose lives are in imminent danger if they do not get surgery.

Still no date.

Weirdly my waiting time for minor hernia surgery has been about 3 months. I'll be under the knife in 2 weeks time.

Leon

ManchesterKurt said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

My view is that it'll take five years to recover for every one year of Covid measures; that applies to both health and education.

So this will affect most of the 2020s IMHO.

and millions of lives will be badly scarred as a result of allowing this to be the case.

Those aged 18-24 have paid the highest price. Your best years, in many ways, certainly some of the most important years for crucial socialization and education - and sex and love - and you were locked at home to protect the old and the fat

It is amazing they didn’t kick off a Revolution. We owe them

FrancisUrquhart

Gallowgate said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Foxy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

Waits at Leicester EED are worse than I have known, as are waiting lists. I don't think the public have realised how shattered NHS services are. Normal is a long way off.

My wife remains in 24/7 considerable discomfort and pain.

She is in the priority group for an op to hopefully reduce this only below those on the waiting list whose lives are in imminent danger if they do not get surgery.

Still no date.

Weirdly my waiting time for minor hernia surgery has been about 3 months. I'll be under the knife in 2 weeks time.

How much did you slip the surgeon?

malcolmg

Foxy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

Waits at Leicester ED are worse than I have known, as are waiting lists. I don't think the public have realised how shattered NHS services are. Normal is a long way off.

People best hope to not get ill over next 4-5 years for sure.

Pulpstar

malcolmg said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Football's coming home tonight.

I hope.

Get your money on Ukraine, in to 13-2 but still easy money

If you're going to make a losing bet at least do it at the correct price; 8-1 on Smarkets.

dixiedean

Sandpit said:

OldKingCole said:

I suggest that a significant thought in the header is that no other party is going to make a deal which would keep a Johnson-led, or even ‘Johnson-ite’ Tory party in power. Somehow some sort of non-Tory administration will emerge after the next election, unless the Tories can govern alone.

The “coalition of chaos” argument worked in 2015, and there’s little to suggest it wouldn’t work again. The very idea of the SNP in coalition, is worth a couple of dozen Tory seats in England, even if in practice a number of Labour MPs would defy the whip on the Scottish referendum vote.

In 2015 folk voted for a coalition led by Cameron over a coalition led by Miliband.
They overshot somewhat. And here we are.

OldKingCole

Cricket: India Women beat England Women. Very close game

algarkirk

OldKingCole said:

Sandpit said:

OldKingCole said:

I suggest that a significant thought in the header is that no other party is going to make a deal which would keep a Johnson-led, or even ‘Johnson-ite’ Tory party in power. Somehow some sort of non-Tory administration will emerge after the next election, unless the Tories can govern alone.

The “coalition of chaos” argument worked in 2015, and there’s little to suggest it wouldn’t work again. The very idea of the SNP in coalition, is worth a couple of dozen Tory seats in England, even if in practice a number of Labour MPs would defy the whip on the Scottish referendum vote.

Worked in LD held seats, but will Johnson be held in the esteem Cameron was. And will Starmer make the mistakes Milliband did?

Good questions, but there is a recurring paradox here, that the more likely it is that the Tories won't form a government the more likely it is that there will be an unstable coalition of Lab, LD, Green, SNP and SDLP all of which will shore up the Tory vote.

Are we into a long period of only two possible governments: Tory or Rainbow? It is not possible that the Tories can't make a huge thing of this at the next election as it becomes clear more widely (most people won't have thought about it yet) that only a Blair style swing can give you a stable Labour government.

rcs1000

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Then there were five. Euro 2020 Betfair prices. Italy now clear favourites.

1 Italy 3.2 31.2%
2 England 3.35 29.9%
3 Spain 3.75 26.7%
4 Denmark 8.6 11.6%
5 Ukraine 55 1.8%

Ukraine worth a punt here? They'd be in to 10s if they beat England, surely?

Roger

Doesn't it worry the Tories that Dominic Cummings announced (in almost as many words ) that he was on a vendetta to get rid of Hancock and within a month Hancock was out? And following that he made it clear Johnson in now in his sights? Shouldn't that be more worrying than a rejuvenated Starmer?

As I said a a couple of weeks ago Cummings is Anton Chigurth.

He gets his man.

Pulpstar

rcs1000 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Then there were five. Euro 2020 Betfair prices. Italy now clear favourites.

1 Italy 3.2 31.2%
2 England 3.35 29.9%
3 Spain 3.75 26.7%
4 Denmark 8.6 11.6%
5 Ukraine 55 1.8%

Ukraine worth a punt here? They'd be in to 10s if they beat England, surely?

They are 4.8 to qualify so you'd expect them to come into 11.5

Pro_Rata

Looking nervously at the storms rolling in on the weather map from the West Midlands, should land pretty much exactly by 8, and our rather tall aerial that's gives line of sight over the crest between here and Emley, and renberinf the neighbour who exploded his telly one World Cup duringy childhood.

We're lower down our hill now and tuckef into the edge of a wood. but you remember things like that

OldKingCole

algarkirk said:

OldKingCole said:

Sandpit said:

OldKingCole said:

I suggest that a significant thought in the header is that no other party is going to make a deal which would keep a Johnson-led, or even ‘Johnson-ite’ Tory party in power. Somehow some sort of non-Tory administration will emerge after the next election, unless the Tories can govern alone.

The “coalition of chaos” argument worked in 2015, and there’s little to suggest it wouldn’t work again. The very idea of the SNP in coalition, is worth a couple of dozen Tory seats in England, even if in practice a number of Labour MPs would defy the whip on the Scottish referendum vote.

Worked in LD held seats, but will Johnson be held in the esteem Cameron was. And will Starmer make the mistakes Milliband did?

Good questions, but there is a recurring paradox here, that the more likely it is that the Tories won't form a government the more likely it is that there will be an unstable coalition of Lab, LD, Green, SNP and SDLP all of which will shore up the Tory vote.

Are we into a long period of only two possible governments: Tory or Rainbow? It is not possible that the Tories can't make a huge thing of this at the next election as it becomes clear more widely (most people won't have thought about it yet) that only a Blair style swing can give you a stable Labour government.

I suspect that much will depend on how much of a bog Johnson et al continue to make of Brexit, and how that affects the Home Counties Tory vote. The news about lots of business in the City, if it is maintained, will help the Tories.

Pulpstar

£10 on England 2.2 @ half time

Flatlander

Pro_Rata said:

Looking nervously at the storms rolling in on the weather map from the West Midlands, should land pretty much exactly by 8, and our rather tall aerial that's gives line of sight over the crest between here and Emley, and renberinf the neighbour who exploded his telly one World Cup duringy childhood.

We're lower down our hill now and tuckef into the edge of a wood. but you remember things like that

Ha, yes, I'd been thinking a few people might lose power tonight. Sheffield or Leeds perhaps most likely during the match.

Generators at the ready!

Black_Rook

Leon said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

My view is that it'll take five years to recover for every one year of Covid measures; that applies to both health and education.

So this will affect most of the 2020s IMHO.

and millions of lives will be badly scarred as a result of allowing this to be the case.

Those aged 18-24 have paid the highest price. Your best years, in many ways, certainly some of the most important years for crucial socialization and education - and sex and love - and you were locked at home to protect the old and the fat

It is amazing they didn’t kick off a Revolution. We owe them

What they will actually get is higher taxes to prop up health and social care for the old and the fat. Plus ça change.

Taz

rcs1000 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Then there were five. Euro 2020 Betfair prices. Italy now clear favourites.

1 Italy 3.2 31.2%
2 England 3.35 29.9%
3 Spain 3.75 26.7%
4 Denmark 8.6 11.6%
5 Ukraine 55 1.8%

Ukraine worth a punt here? They'd be in to 10s if they beat England, surely?

Yup, I’ve got a couple of quid of my Batley winnings on them.

Fishing

Roger said:

Doesn't it worry the Tories that Dominic Cummings announced (in almost as many words ) that he was on a vendetta to get rid of Hancock and within a month Hancock was out? And following that he made it clear Johnson in now in his sights? Shouldn't that be more worrying than a rejuvenated Starmer?

As I said a a couple of weeks ago Cummings is Anton Chigurth.

He gets his man.

It worries me rather more that an authoritarian incompetent nanny-stater like Hancock could survive so long in the first place.

He is one of those people that could never have enough power over people to lead them to total disaster.

FrancisUrquhart

UK’s largest chip plant to be acquired by Chinese-owned firm Nexperia amid global semiconductor shortage

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/02/uks-largest-chip-plant-set-to-be-acquired-by-chinese-owned-nexperia.html

ydoethur

Fishing said:

Roger said:

Doesn't it worry the Tories that Dominic Cummings announced (in almost as many words ) that he was on a vendetta to get rid of Hancock and within a month Hancock was out? And following that he made it clear Johnson in now in his sights? Shouldn't that be more worrying than a rejuvenated Starmer?

As I said a a couple of weeks ago Cummings is Anton Chigurth.

He gets his man.

It worries me rather more that an authoritarian incompetent nanny-stater like Hancock could survive so long in the first place.

He is one of those people that could never have enough power over people to lead them to total disaster.

As is Cummings.

Or indeed Sam Freedman, although these days he seems to give lectures saying how brilliant all his education reforms are rather than anything of practical value impact.

ydoethur

Black_Rook said:

Leon said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

My view is that it'll take five years to recover for every one year of Covid measures; that applies to both health and education.

So this will affect most of the 2020s IMHO.

and millions of lives will be badly scarred as a result of allowing this to be the case.

Those aged 18-24 have paid the highest price. Your best years, in many ways, certainly some of the most important years for crucial socialization and education - and sex and love - and you were locked at home to protect the old and the fat

It is amazing they didn’t kick off a Revolution. We owe them

What they will actually get is higher taxes to prop up health and social care for the old and the fat. Plus ça change.

If they have no jobs, or minimum wage only, will they be paying taxes?

Stark_Dawning

Roger said:

Doesn't it worry the Tories that Dominic Cummings announced (in almost as many words ) that he was on a vendetta to get rid of Hancock and within a month Hancock was out? And following that he made it clear Johnson in now in his sights? Shouldn't that be more worrying than a rejuvenated Starmer?

As I said a a couple of weeks ago Cummings is Anton Chigurth.

He gets his man.

Have we learnt who repositioned that camera yet? If it was one of Dom's agents, deep in the heart of Whitehall, then what else have they been gathering?

IshmaelZ

Roger said:

Doesn't it worry the Tories that Dominic Cummings announced (in almost as many words ) that he was on a vendetta to get rid of Hancock and within a month Hancock was out? And following that he made it clear Johnson in now in his sights? Shouldn't that be more worrying than a rejuvenated Starmer?

As I said a a couple of weeks ago Cummings is Anton Chigurth.

He gets his man.

How on earth did you know his surname?

Not that you do, it's Chigurh. But still.

Hartlepool = peak Boris.

ydoethur

Stark_Dawning said:

Roger said:

Doesn't it worry the Tories that Dominic Cummings announced (in almost as many words ) that he was on a vendetta to get rid of Hancock and within a month Hancock was out? And following that he made it clear Johnson in now in his sights? Shouldn't that be more worrying than a rejuvenated Starmer?

As I said a a couple of weeks ago Cummings is Anton Chigurth.

He gets his man.

Have we learnt who repositioned that camera yet? If it was one of Dom's agents, deep in the heart of Whitehall, then what else have they been gathering?

I will be amazed to learn he has agents still in the Civil Service. They hate him as much as I hate both of them.

Black_Rook

ydoethur said:

Black_Rook said:

Leon said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

My view is that it'll take five years to recover for every one year of Covid measures; that applies to both health and education.

So this will affect most of the 2020s IMHO.

and millions of lives will be badly scarred as a result of allowing this to be the case.

Those aged 18-24 have paid the highest price. Your best years, in many ways, certainly some of the most important years for crucial socialization and education - and sex and love - and you were locked at home to protect the old and the fat

It is amazing they didn’t kick off a Revolution. We owe them

What they will actually get is higher taxes to prop up health and social care for the old and the fat. Plus ça change.

If they have no jobs, or minimum wage only, will they be paying taxes?

No, but their benefits will doubtless be frozen. Gold plating only applies to pensions.

dodrade

Leon said:

Emma Raducanu is

Well, she is, isn’t she?

No point denying it

Fwwooooo

Never mind the football, Tennis is coming home!

Taz

Black_Rook said:

ydoethur said:

Black_Rook said:

Leon said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

My view is that it'll take five years to recover for every one year of Covid measures; that applies to both health and education.

So this will affect most of the 2020s IMHO.

and millions of lives will be badly scarred as a result of allowing this to be the case.

Those aged 18-24 have paid the highest price. Your best years, in many ways, certainly some of the most important years for crucial socialization and education - and sex and love - and you were locked at home to protect the old and the fat

It is amazing they didn’t kick off a Revolution. We owe them

What they will actually get is higher taxes to prop up health and social care for the old and the fat. Plus ça change.

If they have no jobs, or minimum wage only, will they be paying taxes?

No, but their benefits will doubtless be frozen. Gold plating only applies to pensions.

I’m nowhere near pension age but the idea our pension, which is tiny compared to other comparable european nations, is gold plated is for the birds.

ydoethur

Black_Rook said:

ydoethur said:

Black_Rook said:

Leon said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

My view is that it'll take five years to recover for every one year of Covid measures; that applies to both health and education.

So this will affect most of the 2020s IMHO.

and millions of lives will be badly scarred as a result of allowing this to be the case.

Those aged 18-24 have paid the highest price. Your best years, in many ways, certainly some of the most important years for crucial socialization and education - and sex and love - and you were locked at home to protect the old and the fat

It is amazing they didn’t kick off a Revolution. We owe them

What they will actually get is higher taxes to prop up health and social care for the old and the fat. Plus ça change.

If they have no jobs, or minimum wage only, will they be paying taxes?

No, but their benefits will doubtless be frozen. Gold plating only applies to pensions.

Well, my pay has already been frozen, although I’m not in that age bracket.

IshmaelZ

Pulpstar said:

£10 on England 2.2 @ half time

3 figure sum on Ukraine to win at 8 to 1 on Betfair exchange. Let's make it n+1 years of hurt.

PS the three figure sum is PDS 6.21

Foxy

malcolmg said:

Foxy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

Waits at Leicester ED are worse than I have known, as are waiting lists. I don't think the public have realised how shattered NHS services are. Normal is a long way off.

People best hope to not get ill over next 4-5 years for sure.

I know.

Mrs Foxy and I are getting private health insurance for the first time in our lives. Previously we have only been NHS, and never had to wait long.

Foxy

I am up about £75 if England win tonight. I just don't think Ukraine are good enough.

ydoethur

Taz said:

Black_Rook said:

ydoethur said:

Black_Rook said:

Leon said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

My view is that it'll take five years to recover for every one year of Covid measures; that applies to both health and education.

So this will affect most of the 2020s IMHO.

and millions of lives will be badly scarred as a result of allowing this to be the case.

Those aged 18-24 have paid the highest price. Your best years, in many ways, certainly some of the most important years for crucial socialization and education - and sex and love - and you were locked at home to protect the old and the fat

It is amazing they didn’t kick off a Revolution. We owe them

What they will actually get is higher taxes to prop up health and social care for the old and the fat. Plus ça change.

If they have no jobs, or minimum wage only, will they be paying taxes?

No, but their benefits will doubtless be frozen. Gold plating only applies to pensions.

I’m nowhere near pension age but the idea our pension, which is tiny compared to other comparable european nations, is gold plated is for the birds.

Unless you’re public sector.

Which I am of course, so I’d probably be better off keeping quiet.

That said the TPS is descending into chaos at the moment and will probably be a target for further reform in the near future.

dixiedean

DCL on the bench.
Praise the Lord.

malcolmg

Taz said:

Black_Rook said:

ydoethur said:

Black_Rook said:

Leon said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

My view is that it'll take five years to recover for every one year of Covid measures; that applies to both health and education.

So this will affect most of the 2020s IMHO.

and millions of lives will be badly scarred as a result of allowing this to be the case.

Those aged 18-24 have paid the highest price. Your best years, in many ways, certainly some of the most important years for crucial socialization and education - and sex and love - and you were locked at home to protect the old and the fat

It is amazing they didn’t kick off a Revolution. We owe them

What they will actually get is higher taxes to prop up health and social care for the old and the fat. Plus ça change.

If they have no jobs, or minimum wage only, will they be paying taxes?

No, but their benefits will doubtless be frozen. Gold plating only applies to pensions.

I’m nowhere near pension age but the idea our pension, which is tiny compared to other comparable european nations, is gold plated is for the birds.

Some people are just deluded, my state pension is £720 a month , more like tin plated than gold. That for 50 years contributions. Luckily it is just pocket money for me or I would be in some state.

Taz

ydoethur said:

Taz said:

Black_Rook said:

ydoethur said:

Black_Rook said:

Leon said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

My view is that it'll take five years to recover for every one year of Covid measures; that applies to both health and education.

So this will affect most of the 2020s IMHO.

and millions of lives will be badly scarred as a result of allowing this to be the case.

Those aged 18-24 have paid the highest price. Your best years, in many ways, certainly some of the most important years for crucial socialization and education - and sex and love - and you were locked at home to protect the old and the fat

It is amazing they didn’t kick off a Revolution. We owe them

What they will actually get is higher taxes to prop up health and social care for the old and the fat. Plus ça change.

If they have no jobs, or minimum wage only, will they be paying taxes?

No, but their benefits will doubtless be frozen. Gold plating only applies to pensions.

I’m nowhere near pension age but the idea our pension, which is tiny compared to other comparable european nations, is gold plated is for the birds.

Unless you’re public sector.

Which I am of course, so I’d probably be better off keeping quiet.

That said the TPS is descending into chaos at the moment and will probably be a target for further reform in the near future.

TPS ?

Any changes need to be carefully thought through. I believe the previous changes have fallen foul of discrimination laws.

Nunu3

https://mobile.twitter.com/AP/status/1410774149287526403

Gallowgate

malcolmg said:

Taz said:

Black_Rook said:

ydoethur said:

Black_Rook said:

Leon said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

My view is that it'll take five years to recover for every one year of Covid measures; that applies to both health and education.

So this will affect most of the 2020s IMHO.

and millions of lives will be badly scarred as a result of allowing this to be the case.

Those aged 18-24 have paid the highest price. Your best years, in many ways, certainly some of the most important years for crucial socialization and education - and sex and love - and you were locked at home to protect the old and the fat

It is amazing they didn’t kick off a Revolution. We owe them

What they will actually get is higher taxes to prop up health and social care for the old and the fat. Plus ça change.

If they have no jobs, or minimum wage only, will they be paying taxes?

No, but their benefits will doubtless be frozen. Gold plating only applies to pensions.

I’m nowhere near pension age but the idea our pension, which is tiny compared to other comparable european nations, is gold plated is for the birds.

Some people are just deluded, my state pension is £720 a month , more like tin plated than gold. That for 50 years contributions. Luckily it is just pocket money for me or I would be in some state.

Why are you complaining if it's just "pocket money"?

Feel free not to take it if you'd prefer the money go to people who need it more.

DecrepiterJohnL

FrancisUrquhart said:

UK’s largest chip plant to be acquired by Chinese-owned firm Nexperia amid global semiconductor shortage

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/02/uks-largest-chip-plant-set-to-be-acquired-by-chinese-owned-nexperia.html

One for HMG to block imo.

Foxy

dixiedean said:

DCL on the bench.
Praise the Lord.

He should get a good view of the entire match from there.

Mexicanpete

MaxPB said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

What's happened once the football has come home?

I mean, it doesn't stay home, does it?

It does, we get to mention it for years.

So 'it' stays home.

I think we'd need to win a(nother) world cup for that.

No, if Boris' Barmy Army win the Euros that is more than good enough. In Brexit year too!

malcolmg

Foxy said:

malcolmg said:

Foxy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

Waits at Leicester ED are worse than I have known, as are waiting lists. I don't think the public have realised how shattered NHS services are. Normal is a long way off.

People best hope to not get ill over next 4-5 years for sure.

I know.

Mrs Foxy and I are getting private health insurance for the first time in our lives. Previously we have only been NHS, and never had to wait long.

I have it as well and last year was glad of it as my wife had heart issues due to her COP / Whatever it was and she would have waited a long time , they said they tried to see people in 12 weeks but don't guarantee etc. She was seen perivately in a day with a top guy who sorted her out , appointments, scans , etc were not an issue.
Cannot complain much about her treatment before that in NHS , few errors excluded but waiting times if you are not pegging out are pretty bad.

Malmesbury

malcolmg said:

Taz said:

Black_Rook said:

ydoethur said:

Black_Rook said:

Leon said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

My view is that it'll take five years to recover for every one year of Covid measures; that applies to both health and education.

So this will affect most of the 2020s IMHO.

and millions of lives will be badly scarred as a result of allowing this to be the case.

Those aged 18-24 have paid the highest price. Your best years, in many ways, certainly some of the most important years for crucial socialization and education - and sex and love - and you were locked at home to protect the old and the fat

It is amazing they didn’t kick off a Revolution. We owe them

What they will actually get is higher taxes to prop up health and social care for the old and the fat. Plus ça change.

If they have no jobs, or minimum wage only, will they be paying taxes?

No, but their benefits will doubtless be frozen. Gold plating only applies to pensions.

I’m nowhere near pension age but the idea our pension, which is tiny compared to other comparable european nations, is gold plated is for the birds.

Some people are just deluded, my state pension is £720 a month , more like tin plated than gold. That for 50 years contributions. Luckily it is just pocket money for me or I would be in some state.

Malcolm, since you are a pensioner, you must vote Tory. Therefore the Tory government bribe for you to vote Tory of billions of pounds extorted from young non-Tory voters is an act of evil.

Think of all those evil pensioners (like you) cackling over their vast piles of cash every month, lighting cigars the size of space rockets with £50 notes..... How can you not hate yourself?

ydoethur

Taz said:

ydoethur said:

Taz said:

Black_Rook said:

ydoethur said:

Black_Rook said:

Leon said:

ManchesterKurt said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

My view is that it'll take five years to recover for every one year of Covid measures; that applies to both health and education.

So this will affect most of the 2020s IMHO.

and millions of lives will be badly scarred as a result of allowing this to be the case.

Those aged 18-24 have paid the highest price. Your best years, in many ways, certainly some of the most important years for crucial socialization and education - and sex and love - and you were locked at home to protect the old and the fat

It is amazing they didn’t kick off a Revolution. We owe them

What they will actually get is higher taxes to prop up health and social care for the old and the fat. Plus ça change.

If they have no jobs, or minimum wage only, will they be paying taxes?

No, but their benefits will doubtless be frozen. Gold plating only applies to pensions.

I’m nowhere near pension age but the idea our pension, which is tiny compared to other comparable european nations, is gold plated is for the birds.

Unless you’re public sector.

Which I am of course, so I’d probably be better off keeping quiet.

That said the TPS is descending into chaos at the moment and will probably be a target for further reform in the near future.

TPS ?

Any changes need to be carefully thought through. I believe the previous changes have fallen foul of discrimination laws.

Teachers’ Pension Scheme.

You are right about the discrimination laws, in a recent ruling (McCloud/Sargeant vs R) changes were found to be discriminatory.

However, I was thinking about funding them. A recent 40% hike in er contributions coupled with major recent financial losses due to the loss of overseas students meant that large numbers of private schools have withdrawn from the TPS. This has added to funding pressures and means that a further hike in contributions, or further reforms, will be needed. This is compounded by the fact the government is phasing out the additional support they made available to schools to pay the extra contributions when the rises were first brought in, leaving many with literally impossible choices about how to fund pensions.

No plausible solution will be popular. When I first read about this - and I’ve spent a lot of time working with Union members and staff on the issue - my immediate instinct was the Government were looking for an excuse to put the pension through Lifeboat. It would be horrendously complicated and probably illegal, but (a) I wouldn’t put it past them and (b) I honestly can’t make sense of their actions otherwise.

Alphabet_Soup

FrancisUrquhart said:

UK’s largest chip plant to be acquired by Chinese-owned firm Nexperia amid global semiconductor shortage

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/02/uks-largest-chip-plant-set-to-be-acquired-by-chinese-owned-nexperia.html

That's what happens when you run a perpetual balance of payments deficit. Other countries buy us with our own money, bit by bit.

Benpointer

Foxy said:

malcolmg said:

Foxy said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm surprised Independent SAGE haven't gone big on this.

Patients report 13-hour wait for A&E at North Manchester hospital amid claims people were queuing up outside
'Something has gone drastically wrong here'

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patients-report-13-hour-wait-20957750

Waits at Leicester ED are worse than I have known, as are waiting lists. I don't think the public have realised how shattered NHS services are. Normal is a long way off.

People best hope to not get ill over next 4-5 years for sure.

I know.

Mrs Foxy and I are getting private health insurance for the first time in our lives. Previously we have only been NHS, and never had to wait long.

Having said that...

I reported a lump to my GP's surgery on 21st June via their online consultation site. I was called back the same day and referred to my local hospital (Salisbury) under the two week referral system for a potential cancer check. Saw the specialist on Thursday 1st July.

Thankfully the lump is benign. Nevertheless I have been offered surgery to remove it which the doctor said to expect within 2-4 weeks.

I cannot speak highly enough of the NHS.