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Following LAB’s narrow Batley victory Starmer moves up in the next PM betting – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298

    The woman seated on the right is Scottish isn't she..


    Hang on.

    1. Are they all seated in socially-distanced groups of no more than six persons or two households?
    2. Why are the ones who have got up from their tables not wearing their masks?

    Tsk tsk...
    My son called tonight and explained the strict rules they have to apply at their wedding in four weeks

    That photo would see them face a £10,000 fine

    What was that about one rule for them another for us

    The law is an ass and everyone knows it.

    If they want to keep enhanced infection controls in medical settings then so be it, and the sick should be encouraged to stay at home. The rest of the rules need chucking on the bonfire.
    And my sons wedding reception is in a marquee that has to have 51% of the sides open- and yes 51% is not a typo
    Hopefully as it’s past the 19th those rules will no longer apply.
    This is Wales with Drakeford wanting restrictions into 2022

    2 local businesses are taking him to court for keeping them closed when their English competitors are open and trading
    Apologies and sympathies.
    Pulpstar said:

    Carole codswallop branching out from batshit Brexit conspiracy theories

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1411432842400342018

    I drove home from cricket listening to the 5 live commentray on Denmark vs the Czech Republic from two women, so I don’t think it is the Issue she thinks it is...
    She isn't called Carole Codswallop for no reason.....
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,335

    Leon said:

    I really do wish politicians would stop pretending they do football.

    It's painful.

    Starmer's always done football, so he's not pretending. Plays every week still, been a season ticket holder at Arsenal for years. Unless you're talking about Boris, not Starmer?
    Yes agreed - he looks totally genuine there. He’s a bit of a pompous dick at times but I’ve no doubt he genuinely likes football and genuinely loves an England win. Who doesn’t?!
    Me. Rooting for Denmark. (Grew up there, and touched by the Eriksen story .)
    Typical England hating labour supporter... (that was tongue in cheek - you can support who you like!)
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,572
    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,299
    glw said:

    It appears to be the very same idea that endless lefties, including Labour leadership, have always rubbished.
    Well apart from the most successful Labour pm that didn’t get involved in a disastrous war at the bidding of the Yanks.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,335
    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Carole codswallop branching out from batshit Brexit conspiracy theories

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1411432842400342018

    She's not noticed the increase in female presenters and commentators in recent years then I suppose. She could partner up with Naomi Wolf to research it.
    No female reporter recorded?
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,906
    Nice end line by Lineker

    Next stop Rome 'They've only blown the bloody scores off'
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554

    Pulpstar said:

    Carole codswallop branching out from batshit Brexit conspiracy theories

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1411432842400342018

    Radio Five had an all-female commentary team on the other quarter-final. Didn't check this one.
    Lots of women are involved in production, commentary, reporting, and discussions of football on Radio 5, and on the whole they speak as much crap/sense as the men.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kle4 said:

    What an opportunity for Gareth Southgate to change how his name is associated with European Championships semi finals.

    Scene, the sem-final.

    Southgate:"Alright lads, get out there, and remember why you're doing this?"
    Kane:"For each other, boss?"
    Sterling:"For the nation, gaffer?"
    Sancho:"For the love of the game, sir?"
    Southgate:"What? No! To redeem my name, you idiots. Do not f*ck me on this!"
    The crosses of St George are flying all around me. Gareth Southgate, the whole of England is with you.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554

    glw said:

    It appears to be the very same idea that endless lefties, including Labour leadership, have always rubbished.
    Normally followed by something something racist Little Englanders....
    Exactly.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited July 2021
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    Not only is it racist, its wrong. e.g. Mason Mount for instance. Parents and extended family from Portsmouth. I presume that nonsense is something like Granny or Great Ganny is Irish or some such bollocks, meaning no immigration, no Mason.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,842
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    No, I think that the migration was a lot more recent than that. Kane's father from Galway for example.

    It's not me that is denying the benefits of immigration to the country.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    We are all ultimately immigrants from Olduvai Gorge, Tanzania.....*

    (*Yes, other interpretations are available!)
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    Worth reflecting on how Southgate even got the job of manager, having to step in when our only manager with a 100% win record (I assume) stepped down because of the Daily Telegraph.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,572

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    Not only is it racist, its wrong. e.g. Mason Mount for instance. Parents and extended family from Portsmouth.
    Yes it’s a peculiar argument, even without the blatant falsehoods. It is saying there is “real English” people and then there are “immigrants”

    Er, what?

    It’s the sort of graphic Le Pen’s FN used to put out about their French World Cup winning team a few years back
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,299
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    Thank goodness that you’re not the sort of chap who claims Wotan as an ancestor.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited July 2021
    Roger said:

    Nice end line by Lineker

    Next stop Rome 'They've only blown the bloody scores off'

    Next Stop Rome? They play at Wembley next....and The Italian Job was set in Turin not Rome....
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Leon said:

    I really do wish politicians would stop pretending they do football.

    It's painful.

    Starmer's always done football, so he's not pretending. Plays every week still, been a season ticket holder at Arsenal for years. Unless you're talking about Boris, not Starmer?
    Yes agreed - he looks totally genuine there. He’s a bit of a pompous dick at times but I’ve no doubt he genuinely likes football and genuinely loves an England win. Who doesn’t?!
    At a guess, population of the world minus population of England (plus Nick Palmer).

    That is about 7.64 billion people.
    Nah, i reckon there's a few countries out there who will be behind us.

    What i like is how we usually get support from foreign footballers who have played in England. They really get how much football means to the country - from regular spectators to casual fans alike.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,572
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    No, I think that the migration was a lot more recent than that. Kane's father from Galway for example.

    It's not me that is denying the benefits of immigration to the country.
    I come from a fucking microbe. Away with your racist shite
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    glw said:

    It appears to be the very same idea that endless lefties, including Labour leadership, have always rubbished.

    These 'Buy British' campaigns always end the same way.

    Someone will look at the merchandise for sale in the Labour shop ...

    https://shop.labour.org.uk/

    ... and find it is all made in China or Portugal or Czechia.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    Foxy said:

    Didn't Brown advocate British jobs for British workers?

    I have always thought "buy British" campaigns a sign of lack of confidence.

    I'm all in favour of buying British providing the goods or services are of equal quality, value, etc. It's a bit of stupid idea to mandate buying British unless you intend to ensure that British businesses are truly competitive, and if they are truly competitive you won't need to mandate buying British.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,106
    Foxy said:

    glw said:

    It appears to be the very same idea that endless lefties, including Labour leadership, have always rubbished.
    Didn't Brown advocate British jobs for British workers?

    I have always thought "buy British" campaigns a sign of lack of confidence.
    The French are obsessed with buying French so it's nothing unique
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    No, I think that the migration was a lot more recent than that. Kane's father from Galway for example.

    It's not me that is denying the benefits of immigration to the country.
    It's such transparent posturing though is the problem. As if there are loads of people going around saying no one should immigrate (since someone who only wants 1000 to immigrate per year is still accepting there are benefits to immigration, they just clearly don't think it's a lot).

    Unless someone does hold that zero immigration position the attempt at moral superiority (in this way at least) is pointless, since someone could have a really harsh view on immigration and just say 'Well that was legal immigration/ah, it's the total number that's key, so of course it's great that all those players come from a diverse background/ there's benefits to the right immigration' and so on.

    I just don't think it is the massive slam dunk that will leave the immigration hawks floundering that some clearly think it is (the sense of "aha, let's see 'em try to handle this mind blowing fact about diversity in football players") the idea of which seems to give some people a great big stiffy.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,864
    edited July 2021
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    No, I think that the migration was a lot more recent than that. Kane's father from Galway for example.

    It's not me that is denying the benefits of immigration to the country.
    I come from a fucking microbe. Away with your racist shite
    I thought you'd traced your ancestry back to William the Conqueror?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited July 2021
    The Red Tractor campaign is probably a good balance. It is a buy British camapign, but not just because its British, its because the producers have to meet very high standards. So you are buying something for quality / ethics more than just because its British.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,745
    Next up - Denmark. Will England be able to bring home the bacon?
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    glw said:

    Foxy said:

    Didn't Brown advocate British jobs for British workers?

    I have always thought "buy British" campaigns a sign of lack of confidence.

    I'm all in favour of buying British providing the goods or services are of equal quality, value, etc. It's a bit of stupid idea to mandate buying British unless you intend to ensure that British businesses are truly competitive, and if they are truly competitive you won't need to mandate buying British.
    Up to a point - although there is usually an economic benefit (to the country if not the buyer) from buying British which is discounted when decisions are made.

    Clearly if you are buying from a company paying workers who live and work in the UK then the money paid will be retained and recirculate within the UK economy - either via taxation to the Govt or direct spending on high streets etc. Outsourcing abroad and none of that is retained - even more so in times of high unemployment where there is a knock-on effect in the paying of benefits.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Absolute scenes from the pubs of England on tonight's news. Little or no remaining pretence of Covid theatre.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,439

    The Red Tractor campaign is probably a good balance. It is a buy British camapign, but not just because its British, its because the producers have to meet very high standards. So you are buying something for quality / ethics more than just because its British.

    For consumer goods perhaps then we could have things being made to a high standard of being repairable, and it would fit in with an agenda of reducing waste too.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,572


    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    No, I think that the migration was a lot more recent than that. Kane's father from Galway for example.

    It's not me that is denying the benefits of immigration to the country.
    I come from a fucking microbe. Away with your racist shite
    I thought you'd traced your ancestry back to William the Conqueror?
    Indeed, but even the Bastard, and Athelstan, and Rollo of Normandy ultimately come from some Protozoa near Queensland

    But if you are Foxy you only count as “English” if your family was provably in England between 560-650 AD and you have freckles, everyone else is not English and is an “immigrant”.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    Not only is it racist, its wrong. e.g. Mason Mount for instance. Parents and extended family from Portsmouth.
    Yes it’s a peculiar argument, even without the blatant falsehoods. It is saying there is “real English” people and then there are “immigrants”

    Er, what?

    It’s the sort of graphic Le Pen’s FN used to put out about their French World Cup winning team a few years back
    IIRC the French state got pretty annoyed at reference abroad to the number of 'african' players in their team in 2018.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554

    The Red Tractor campaign is probably a good balance. It is a buy British camapign, but not just because its British, its because the producers have to meet very high standards. So you are buying something for quality / ethics more than just because its British.

    That's the point though, you don't need to make it mandatory for organisations to buy things made in Britain. Good products and services can command a premium if they are higher quality.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,995
    Leon said:


    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    No, I think that the migration was a lot more recent than that. Kane's father from Galway for example.

    It's not me that is denying the benefits of immigration to the country.
    I come from a fucking microbe. Away with your racist shite
    I thought you'd traced your ancestry back to William the Conqueror?
    Indeed, but even the Bastard, and Athelstan, and Rollo of Normandy ultimately come from some Protozoa near Queensland

    But if you are Foxy you only count as “English” if your family was provably in England between 560-650 AD and you have freckles, everyone else is not English and is an “immigrant”.

    Is that sufficient, or do all of your ancestors have to be from England?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    Leon said:


    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    No, I think that the migration was a lot more recent than that. Kane's father from Galway for example.

    It's not me that is denying the benefits of immigration to the country.
    I come from a fucking microbe. Away with your racist shite
    I thought you'd traced your ancestry back to William the Conqueror?
    Indeed, but even the Bastard, and Athelstan, and Rollo of Normandy ultimately come from some Protozoa near Queensland

    But if you are Foxy you only count as “English” if your family was provably in England between 560-650 AD and you have freckles, everyone else is not English and is an “immigrant”.

    Whilst I disagree with the blatant attempts to bait people who support less immigration with specious arguments about diversity in football, I dare say you have probably extrapolated from Dr Foxy's view somewhat divergently there.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    alex_ said:

    Up to a point - although there is usually an economic benefit (to the country if not the buyer) from buying British which is discounted when decisions are made.

    Clearly if you are buying from a company paying workers who live and work in the UK then the money paid will be retained and recirculate within the UK economy - either via taxation to the Govt or direct spending on high streets etc. Outsourcing abroad and none of that is retained - even more so in times of high unemployment where there is a knock-on effect in the paying of benefits.

    Sure I agree with that, but it still comes back to the UK having high quality businesses that are run well, internationally competitive, and produce things we need. If we have good British options we will choose them without anyone making us do so.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,335

    Absolute scenes from the pubs of England on tonight's news. Little or no remaining pretence of Covid theatre.

    Good. At our cricket club tonight no masks and inside drinking, some standing up, the carefree devils... I think if the news about 19th is true and announced this week, a lot of slipping will happen.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Absolute scenes from the pubs of England on tonight's news. Little or no remaining pretence of Covid theatre.

    Good. At our cricket club tonight no masks and inside drinking, some standing up, the carefree devils... I think if the news about 19th is true and announced this week, a lot of slipping will happen.
    The 19th should be brought forward to no later than the 10th.

    If we make it let pubs officially abolish social distancing for the final.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,439
    Looking at the Labour announcement on their website*, there doesn't seem to be much to it. I suppose things like this are the normal work of an Opposition - make an announcement where you promise to do something good, which involves criticising the government for not managing to make it happen, or for actively making the situation worse. Make lots of these announcements to gain attention - so necessarily there can't be too much concrete in each one.

    The one thing that is in it is:
    "Passing a law requiring public bodies to report on how much they are buying from British businesses including SMEs."

    I guess an issue here is how complicated this could get, bearing in mind how complicated in can be for rules of origin in trade deals.

    * https://labour.org.uk/press/labour-will-make-buy-and-sell-more-in-britain/
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    glw said:

    alex_ said:

    Up to a point - although there is usually an economic benefit (to the country if not the buyer) from buying British which is discounted when decisions are made.

    Clearly if you are buying from a company paying workers who live and work in the UK then the money paid will be retained and recirculate within the UK economy - either via taxation to the Govt or direct spending on high streets etc. Outsourcing abroad and none of that is retained - even more so in times of high unemployment where there is a knock-on effect in the paying of benefits.

    Sure I agree with that, but it still comes back to the UK having high quality businesses that are run well, internationally competitive, and produce things we need. If we have good British options we will choose them without anyone making us do so.
    The key is quality. Ultimately no company should be effectively forced to buy inferior UK products just because of the knock on economic benefits to the wider UK economy. However i don't see any problems with intervening to prevent (or perhaps better, incentivise) companies who might otherwise reject quality UK products over equivalent or worse products from abroad as a result of a failure to look beyond their own narrow bottom line.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,572
    N
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:


    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    No, I think that the migration was a lot more recent than that. Kane's father from Galway for example.

    It's not me that is denying the benefits of immigration to the country.
    I come from a fucking microbe. Away with your racist shite
    I thought you'd traced your ancestry back to William the Conqueror?
    Indeed, but even the Bastard, and Athelstan, and Rollo of Normandy ultimately come from some Protozoa near Queensland

    But if you are Foxy you only count as “English” if your family was provably in England between 560-650 AD and you have freckles, everyone else is not English and is an “immigrant”.

    Whilst I disagree with the blatant attempts to bait people who support less immigration with specious arguments about diversity in football, I dare say you have probably extrapolated from Dr Foxy's view somewhat divergently there.
    Nonetheless i would like to know how Foxy defines people as “English” or as “immigrant” and exactly how he differentiates them. Perhaps there is some kind of racial purity blood test, or maybe a colour chart, which he uses in his surgery
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Absolute scenes from the pubs of England on tonight's news. Little or no remaining pretence of Covid theatre.

    Good. At our cricket club tonight no masks and inside drinking, some standing up, the carefree devils... I think if the news about 19th is true and announced this week, a lot of slipping will happen.
    The 19th should be brought forward to no later than the 10th.

    If we make it let pubs officially abolish social distancing for the final.
    As has been discussed on the news and elsewhere, it's pointless without something being done about the current rules on quarantine. As long as pubs and hospitality venues can find themselves forced to close through lack of staff as a result of mass quarantining post "infection" incidents, it's not actually in their interests to allow a general free for all.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,842
    glw said:

    Foxy said:

    Didn't Brown advocate British jobs for British workers?

    I have always thought "buy British" campaigns a sign of lack of confidence.

    I'm all in favour of buying British providing the goods or services are of equal quality, value, etc. It's a bit of stupid idea to mandate buying British unless you intend to ensure that British businesses are truly competitive, and if they are truly competitive you won't need to mandate buying British.
    I always buy British shoes from a small factory in the East Midlands, but that is simply because of their great quality.

    Solovair shoes are so good that you won't buy from anywhere else.

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited July 2021

    Looking at the Labour announcement on their website*, there doesn't seem to be much to it. I suppose things like this are the normal work of an Opposition - make an announcement where you promise to do something good, which involves criticising the government for not managing to make it happen, or for actively making the situation worse. Make lots of these announcements to gain attention - so necessarily there can't be too much concrete in each one.

    The one thing that is in it is:
    "Passing a law requiring public bodies to report on how much they are buying from British businesses including SMEs."

    I guess an issue here is how complicated this could get, bearing in mind how complicated in can be for rules of origin in trade deals.

    * https://labour.org.uk/press/labour-will-make-buy-and-sell-more-in-britain/

    What counts as a British business? e.g. Is Morrisons still a British business when it is taken over by the American private equity company? Their HQ will be in the UK, is that enough? Or, as in the case of Morrisons, they also own a lot of UK based food production facilities.
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    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,228

    Absolute scenes from the pubs of England on tonight's news. Little or no remaining pretence of Covid theatre.

    Time to bring the restrictions to an end (domestically)

    Need for emphasis on personal responsibility, and 'guidance' can be provided eg re masks for those to follow should they wish.

    And time to stop the government handouts - so much money has been wasted and we need to start rebuilding the nation's finances on a sound footing.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Absolute scenes from the pubs of England on tonight's news. Little or no remaining pretence of Covid theatre.

    Good. At our cricket club tonight no masks and inside drinking, some standing up, the carefree devils... I think if the news about 19th is true and announced this week, a lot of slipping will happen.
    The 19th should be brought forward to no later than the 10th.

    If we make it let pubs officially abolish social distancing for the final.
    I very much doubt that will happen. OTOH the authorities responsible for trying to enforce all these rules may simply give up and turn a blind eye anyway.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,572
    Foxy said:

    glw said:

    Foxy said:

    Didn't Brown advocate British jobs for British workers?

    I have always thought "buy British" campaigns a sign of lack of confidence.

    I'm all in favour of buying British providing the goods or services are of equal quality, value, etc. It's a bit of stupid idea to mandate buying British unless you intend to ensure that British businesses are truly competitive, and if they are truly competitive you won't need to mandate buying British.
    I always buy British shoes from a small factory in the East Midlands, but that is simply because of their great quality.

    Solovair shoes are so good that you won't buy from anywhere else.

    How do you know they are “British” shoes, and the cobblers didn’t just sneak over here during the Black Death, when we were distracted? And how can you know the shoe-leather is really British, and was evolved in British cattle that date back to pre-Roman times? Are your shoes genuinely made from auroch-hide?

    Or are they actually IMMIGRANT SHOES?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    Theresa May has earned more than £500,000 for ‘virtual’ speeches during the pandemic – making her the highest-earning MP last year.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9753247/Theresa-zooms-MPs-pay-list-earning-500k-virtual-speeches.html

    Who wants to hear Mrs May speak virtually.....let alone pay for the punishment.
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,228

    Absolute scenes from the pubs of England on tonight's news. Little or no remaining pretence of Covid theatre.

    Good. At our cricket club tonight no masks and inside drinking, some standing up, the carefree devils... I think if the news about 19th is true and announced this week, a lot of slipping will happen.
    The 19th should be brought forward to no later than the 10th.

    If we make it let pubs officially abolish social distancing for the final.
    I very much doubt that will happen. OTOH the authorities responsible for trying to enforce all these rules may simply give up and turn a blind eye anyway.
    It will be 19 July but it would be helpful for Boris to announce it early next week to provide early clarity for all.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061

    Absolute scenes from the pubs of England on tonight's news. Little or no remaining pretence of Covid theatre.

    Good. At our cricket club tonight no masks and inside drinking, some standing up, the carefree devils... I think if the news about 19th is true and announced this week, a lot of slipping will happen.
    The 19th should be brought forward to no later than the 10th.

    If we make it let pubs officially abolish social distancing for the final.
    I very much doubt that will happen. OTOH the authorities responsible for trying to enforce all these rules may simply give up and turn a blind eye anyway.
    It was always the case that rules relied on voluntary compliance, the numbers actively charged with anything very small, and there's simply not the capability to enforce most of it.

    Sure, if one restaurant flouts rules repeatedly you can catch and punish them, but if, once announcement of the end has come, they collectively stop bothering, it'd not going to be possible or in anyone's interests to take meaningful action.

    So the government will have to lay it on really thick if they want people to keep going with voluntary mask wearing etc.

    Ultimately if it doesn't feel like a health emergency people won't see a need to comply with guidance, and the NHS being under 'pressure' won't be enough, as people will question how much pressure, particularly as compared to critical times.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,439

    Looking at the Labour announcement on their website*, there doesn't seem to be much to it. I suppose things like this are the normal work of an Opposition - make an announcement where you promise to do something good, which involves criticising the government for not managing to make it happen, or for actively making the situation worse. Make lots of these announcements to gain attention - so necessarily there can't be too much concrete in each one.

    The one thing that is in it is:
    "Passing a law requiring public bodies to report on how much they are buying from British businesses including SMEs."

    I guess an issue here is how complicated this could get, bearing in mind how complicated in can be for rules of origin in trade deals.

    * https://labour.org.uk/press/labour-will-make-buy-and-sell-more-in-britain/

    What counts as a British business? e.g. Is Morrisons still a British business when it is taken over by the American private equity company? Their HQ will be in the UK, is that enough? Or, as in the case of Morrisons, they also own a lot of UK based food production facilities.
    AstraZeneca too - are they too Swedish to count as British?

    If I provide consultancy services do I count as 100% British, or because I work on a laptop manufactured abroad, running software developed abroad, does that mean I have non-British inputs, so I can only claim to be 80% British? That's the same as for, say, a British loo roll company important wood pulp, say.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,842
    Leon said:

    N

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:


    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    No, I think that the migration was a lot more recent than that. Kane's father from Galway for example.

    It's not me that is denying the benefits of immigration to the country.
    I come from a fucking microbe. Away with your racist shite
    I thought you'd traced your ancestry back to William the Conqueror?
    Indeed, but even the Bastard, and Athelstan, and Rollo of Normandy ultimately come from some Protozoa near Queensland

    But if you are Foxy you only count as “English” if your family was provably in England between 560-650 AD and you have freckles, everyone else is not English and is an “immigrant”.

    Whilst I disagree with the blatant attempts to bait people who support less immigration with specious arguments about diversity in football, I dare say you have probably extrapolated from Dr Foxy's view somewhat divergently there.
    Nonetheless i would like to know how Foxy defines people as “English” or as “immigrant” and exactly how he differentiates them. Perhaps there is some kind of racial purity blood test, or maybe a colour chart, which he uses in his surgery
    They are obviously English, because otherwise they couldn't play for England. They have parents though from Ireland, Jamaica, Trinidad, Nigeria, etc. Many would be legally able to play for other countries were they not capped for England at senior level.

    It is ridiculous to deny the multicultural diversity of the England squad, or to pretend that immigrants cannot integrate well into English life and culture.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    edited July 2021

    Theresa May has earned more than £500,000 for ‘virtual’ speeches during the pandemic – making her the highest-earning MP last year.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9753247/Theresa-zooms-MPs-pay-list-earning-500k-virtual-speeches.html

    Who wants to hear Mrs May speak virtually.....let alone pay for the punishment.

    Among others, the US Pension Real Estate Association apparently. No, I don't get it either.

    It does demonstrate the worthiness of her ex-PM strategy though. So far, at any rate, none of this uncertainty about how to make her mark on the world or just how to spend her time like Cameron and Blair (I don't know what Brown is up to), she still has a job with a clear purpose as an MP, and yet can still bank some big bucks for retirement in a mostly harmless way.

    Edit: Though the story suggests she isn't banking it

    The former Premier’s speaking fees are paid to her company, The Office of Theresa May Ltd, and are used to pay staff, maintain her involvement in public life and support charitable work.

    She is paid £85,000 a year from her company for her speaking engagements, which are organised though the Washington Speakers’ Bureau
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,612
    LOL


  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,842
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    glw said:

    Foxy said:

    Didn't Brown advocate British jobs for British workers?

    I have always thought "buy British" campaigns a sign of lack of confidence.

    I'm all in favour of buying British providing the goods or services are of equal quality, value, etc. It's a bit of stupid idea to mandate buying British unless you intend to ensure that British businesses are truly competitive, and if they are truly competitive you won't need to mandate buying British.
    I always buy British shoes from a small factory in the East Midlands, but that is simply because of their great quality.

    Solovair shoes are so good that you won't buy from anywhere else.

    How do you know they are “British” shoes, and the cobblers didn’t just sneak over here during the Black Death, when we were distracted? And how can you know the shoe-leather is really British, and was evolved in British cattle that date back to pre-Roman times? Are your shoes genuinely made from auroch-hide?

    Or are they actually IMMIGRANT SHOES?
    Because I have visited the factory and met the workers.

    Do you buy British?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,572
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    N

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:


    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    No, I think that the migration was a lot more recent than that. Kane's father from Galway for example.

    It's not me that is denying the benefits of immigration to the country.
    I come from a fucking microbe. Away with your racist shite
    I thought you'd traced your ancestry back to William the Conqueror?
    Indeed, but even the Bastard, and Athelstan, and Rollo of Normandy ultimately come from some Protozoa near Queensland

    But if you are Foxy you only count as “English” if your family was provably in England between 560-650 AD and you have freckles, everyone else is not English and is an “immigrant”.

    Whilst I disagree with the blatant attempts to bait people who support less immigration with specious arguments about diversity in football, I dare say you have probably extrapolated from Dr Foxy's view somewhat divergently there.
    Nonetheless i would like to know how Foxy defines people as “English” or as “immigrant” and exactly how he differentiates them. Perhaps there is some kind of racial purity blood test, or maybe a colour chart, which he uses in his surgery
    They are obviously English, because otherwise they couldn't play for England. They have parents though from Ireland, Jamaica, Trinidad, Nigeria, etc. Many would be legally able to play for other countries were they not capped for England at senior level.

    It is ridiculous to deny the multicultural diversity of the England squad, or to pretend that immigrants cannot integrate well into English life and culture.
    Mate, I’m not the one saying there is “England” and then there is “immigrants” and the two are different

    That’s you that is. And I’d go to bed, if I were you
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,612

    Theresa May has earned more than £500,000 for ‘virtual’ speeches during the pandemic – making her the highest-earning MP last year.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9753247/Theresa-zooms-MPs-pay-list-earning-500k-virtual-speeches.html

    Who wants to hear Mrs May speak virtually.....let alone pay for the punishment.

    I know someone who has paid Mrs May to speak at an event.

    Genuinely said if she had spoken like that at GE2017 campaign she'd have won that 294 seat majority.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited July 2021

    Looking at the Labour announcement on their website*, there doesn't seem to be much to it. I suppose things like this are the normal work of an Opposition - make an announcement where you promise to do something good, which involves criticising the government for not managing to make it happen, or for actively making the situation worse. Make lots of these announcements to gain attention - so necessarily there can't be too much concrete in each one.

    The one thing that is in it is:
    "Passing a law requiring public bodies to report on how much they are buying from British businesses including SMEs."

    I guess an issue here is how complicated this could get, bearing in mind how complicated in can be for rules of origin in trade deals.

    * https://labour.org.uk/press/labour-will-make-buy-and-sell-more-in-britain/

    What counts as a British business? e.g. Is Morrisons still a British business when it is taken over by the American private equity company? Their HQ will be in the UK, is that enough? Or, as in the case of Morrisons, they also own a lot of UK based food production facilities.
    AstraZeneca too - are they too Swedish to count as British?

    If I provide consultancy services do I count as 100% British, or because I work on a laptop manufactured abroad, running software developed abroad, does that mean I have non-British inputs, so I can only claim to be 80% British? That's the same as for, say, a British loo roll company important wood pulp, say.
    Rachel Reeves: Labour will be on the side of British businesses

    "Sets out proposals to insert clauses into government contracts that would "help give more public contracts to British businesses", and to require public bodies to report how much they are buying from UK firms; "

    New Labour gave loads of contracts to the UK firm Capita.....I guess she doesn't quite mean that though?

    "Pledges government support for businesses seeking to set up factories in the UK in order to "reshore" or "near-shore" production "so that their supply chains are less complicated and shorter"

    Sounds a bit Trumpian....Red meat for the red wall...but not really realistic in the 21st Century globalized economy, unless they are going to have a trade war with China?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/03/rachel-reeves-labour-will-side-british-businesses/
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061

    Theresa May has earned more than £500,000 for ‘virtual’ speeches during the pandemic – making her the highest-earning MP last year.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9753247/Theresa-zooms-MPs-pay-list-earning-500k-virtual-speeches.html

    Who wants to hear Mrs May speak virtually.....let alone pay for the punishment.

    I know someone who has paid Mrs May to speak at an event.

    Genuinely said if she had spoken like that at GE2017 campaign she'd have won that 294 seat majority.
    But is it like one of those situations where a politician comes across as unlikeable, until they lose their seat and show up on Daily Politics, as they can relax and be freer with their thoughts, things that just couldn't happen earlier?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,842
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    N

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:


    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    No, I think that the migration was a lot more recent than that. Kane's father from Galway for example.

    It's not me that is denying the benefits of immigration to the country.
    I come from a fucking microbe. Away with your racist shite
    I thought you'd traced your ancestry back to William the Conqueror?
    Indeed, but even the Bastard, and Athelstan, and Rollo of Normandy ultimately come from some Protozoa near Queensland

    But if you are Foxy you only count as “English” if your family was provably in England between 560-650 AD and you have freckles, everyone else is not English and is an “immigrant”.

    Whilst I disagree with the blatant attempts to bait people who support less immigration with specious arguments about diversity in football, I dare say you have probably extrapolated from Dr Foxy's view somewhat divergently there.
    Nonetheless i would like to know how Foxy defines people as “English” or as “immigrant” and exactly how he differentiates them. Perhaps there is some kind of racial purity blood test, or maybe a colour chart, which he uses in his surgery
    They are obviously English, because otherwise they couldn't play for England. They have parents though from Ireland, Jamaica, Trinidad, Nigeria, etc. Many would be legally able to play for other countries were they not capped for England at senior level.

    It is ridiculous to deny the multicultural diversity of the England squad, or to pretend that immigrants cannot integrate well into English life and culture.
    Mate, I’m not the one saying there is “England” and then there is “immigrants” and the two are different

    That’s you that is. And I’d go to bed, if I were you
    I am not saying that there is England and immigrants. Just pointing out that the majority of the England team are from parents who recently immigrated here. All part of the multicultural England that I know and love.

    Though I remember you as supporting the other side, along with Lozza...
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,572
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    glw said:

    Foxy said:

    Didn't Brown advocate British jobs for British workers?

    I have always thought "buy British" campaigns a sign of lack of confidence.

    I'm all in favour of buying British providing the goods or services are of equal quality, value, etc. It's a bit of stupid idea to mandate buying British unless you intend to ensure that British businesses are truly competitive, and if they are truly competitive you won't need to mandate buying British.
    I always buy British shoes from a small factory in the East Midlands, but that is simply because of their great quality.

    Solovair shoes are so good that you won't buy from anywhere else.

    How do you know they are “British” shoes, and the cobblers didn’t just sneak over here during the Black Death, when we were distracted? And how can you know the shoe-leather is really British, and was evolved in British cattle that date back to pre-Roman times? Are your shoes genuinely made from auroch-hide?

    Or are they actually IMMIGRANT SHOES?
    Because I have visited the factory and met the workers.

    Do you buy British?
    But did you give all the workers a DNA test? To check their Britannic ancestry? Some might be Huguenots or something, or can you just “tell” by “looking”?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,612
    kle4 said:

    Theresa May has earned more than £500,000 for ‘virtual’ speeches during the pandemic – making her the highest-earning MP last year.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9753247/Theresa-zooms-MPs-pay-list-earning-500k-virtual-speeches.html

    Who wants to hear Mrs May speak virtually.....let alone pay for the punishment.

    I know someone who has paid Mrs May to speak at an event.

    Genuinely said if she had spoken like that at GE2017 campaign she'd have won that 294 seat majority.
    But is it like one of those situations where a politician comes across as unlikeable, until they lose their seat and show up on Daily Politics, as they can relax and be freer with their thoughts, things that just couldn't happen earlier?
    Possibly.

    I think in these corporate events we all like a funny/gossipy story from the speaker, I think that's what Mrs May did.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,864
    On the subject of immigration, it's nice to see the Google search page celebrating the life of Sir Ludwig Guttmann, who undoubtedly saved my life, although I never met him.

    An absolute hero.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    On self-isolation, and its usefulness or otherwise:

    Scientists warn that a big third wave of cases would be enormously disruptive, even if hospitalisations and deaths were greatly reduced. Case numbers stand at about 27,000 a day. “At present, we still have a tracing system where contacts have to self-isolate,” said Prof Mark Woolhouse of the University of Edinburgh. “If for every case, you’re asking five or maybe even 10 people to self-isolate, the disruption caused by a big wave will be massive. So the government may well have to think about their policy regarding contacts, for that reason.

    “The government has now got a very difficult decision to make. If they go through with the unlocking, I have to assume they are confident cases will not rise above 100,000 a day and that there won’t be a huge surge in hospitalisations. Some of the models say that is a possibility.”

    James Naismith, director of the Rosalind Franklin Institute in Oxford, said the country was now “firmly in a third wave of cases”.

    He added: “The Delta variant is still growing despite track and trace, despite testing, despite restrictions and despite masking, and unless you are lucky or extremely careful, we are all going to be exposed to Delta. And since track and trace has failed to hold back Delta in the UK, it is unclear whether its retention has any value to public health, particularly given current vaccination rates.” However, he said, vaccinations and time will eventually end the Delta wave in the UK.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/03/fears-of-summer-chaos-in-schools-and-offices-as-covid-restrictions-are-swept-away
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,864
    edited July 2021

    On self-isolation, and its usefulness or otherwise:

    Scientists warn that a big third wave of cases would be enormously disruptive, even if hospitalisations and deaths were greatly reduced. Case numbers stand at about 27,000 a day. “At present, we still have a tracing system where contacts have to self-isolate,” said Prof Mark Woolhouse of the University of Edinburgh. “If for every case, you’re asking five or maybe even 10 people to self-isolate, the disruption caused by a big wave will be massive. So the government may well have to think about their policy regarding contacts, for that reason.

    “The government has now got a very difficult decision to make. If they go through with the unlocking, I have to assume they are confident cases will not rise above 100,000 a day and that there won’t be a huge surge in hospitalisations. Some of the models say that is a possibility.”

    James Naismith, director of the Rosalind Franklin Institute in Oxford, said the country was now “firmly in a third wave of cases”.

    He added: “The Delta variant is still growing despite track and trace, despite testing, despite restrictions and despite masking, and unless you are lucky or extremely careful, we are all going to be exposed to Delta. And since track and trace has failed to hold back Delta in the UK, it is unclear whether its retention has any value to public health, particularly given current vaccination rates.” However, he said, vaccinations and time will eventually end the Delta wave in the UK.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/03/fears-of-summer-chaos-in-schools-and-offices-as-covid-restrictions-are-swept-away

    I am hearing from younger relatives in London that they and all their friends have switched off the tracing app because they are being asked to isolate too often (!)

  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,842

    Looking at the Labour announcement on their website*, there doesn't seem to be much to it. I suppose things like this are the normal work of an Opposition - make an announcement where you promise to do something good, which involves criticising the government for not managing to make it happen, or for actively making the situation worse. Make lots of these announcements to gain attention - so necessarily there can't be too much concrete in each one.

    The one thing that is in it is:
    "Passing a law requiring public bodies to report on how much they are buying from British businesses including SMEs."

    I guess an issue here is how complicated this could get, bearing in mind how complicated in can be for rules of origin in trade deals.

    * https://labour.org.uk/press/labour-will-make-buy-and-sell-more-in-britain/

    What counts as a British business? e.g. Is Morrisons still a British business when it is taken over by the American private equity company? Their HQ will be in the UK, is that enough? Or, as in the case of Morrisons, they also own a lot of UK based food production facilities.
    AstraZeneca too - are they too Swedish to count as British?

    If I provide consultancy services do I count as 100% British, or because I work on a laptop manufactured abroad, running software developed abroad, does that mean I have non-British inputs, so I can only claim to be 80% British? That's the same as for, say, a British loo roll company important wood pulp, say.
    Rachel Reeves: Labour will be on the side of British businesses

    "Sets out proposals to insert clauses into government contracts that would "help give more public contracts to British businesses", and to require public bodies to report how much they are buying from UK firms; "

    New Labour gave loads of contracts to the UK firm Capita.....I guess she doesn't quite mean that though?

    "Pledges government support for businesses seeking to set up factories in the UK in order to "reshore" or "near-shore" production "so that their supply chains are less complicated and shorter" "

    Sounds a bit Trumpian....Red meat for the red wall...but not really realistic in the 21st Century globalized economy, unless they are going to have a trade war with China?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/03/rachel-reeves-labour-will-side-british-businesses/
    I think it an astute policy. Brexit could be Free Trade or it could be protectionism. That is potentially clear red water that is popular in Labour target seats. I am not so convinced about "Free Trade" as many. It worked for us in the 19th century, at a time when we were economically and militarily dominant in the world. That isn't the 21st Century position though.


  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited July 2021
    Foxy said:

    Looking at the Labour announcement on their website*, there doesn't seem to be much to it. I suppose things like this are the normal work of an Opposition - make an announcement where you promise to do something good, which involves criticising the government for not managing to make it happen, or for actively making the situation worse. Make lots of these announcements to gain attention - so necessarily there can't be too much concrete in each one.

    The one thing that is in it is:
    "Passing a law requiring public bodies to report on how much they are buying from British businesses including SMEs."

    I guess an issue here is how complicated this could get, bearing in mind how complicated in can be for rules of origin in trade deals.

    * https://labour.org.uk/press/labour-will-make-buy-and-sell-more-in-britain/

    What counts as a British business? e.g. Is Morrisons still a British business when it is taken over by the American private equity company? Their HQ will be in the UK, is that enough? Or, as in the case of Morrisons, they also own a lot of UK based food production facilities.
    AstraZeneca too - are they too Swedish to count as British?

    If I provide consultancy services do I count as 100% British, or because I work on a laptop manufactured abroad, running software developed abroad, does that mean I have non-British inputs, so I can only claim to be 80% British? That's the same as for, say, a British loo roll company important wood pulp, say.
    Rachel Reeves: Labour will be on the side of British businesses

    "Sets out proposals to insert clauses into government contracts that would "help give more public contracts to British businesses", and to require public bodies to report how much they are buying from UK firms; "

    New Labour gave loads of contracts to the UK firm Capita.....I guess she doesn't quite mean that though?

    "Pledges government support for businesses seeking to set up factories in the UK in order to "reshore" or "near-shore" production "so that their supply chains are less complicated and shorter" "

    Sounds a bit Trumpian....Red meat for the red wall...but not really realistic in the 21st Century globalized economy, unless they are going to have a trade war with China?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/03/rachel-reeves-labour-will-side-british-businesses/
    I think it an astute policy. Brexit could be Free Trade or it could be protectionism. That is potentially clear red water that is popular in Labour target seats. I am not so convinced about "Free Trade" as many. It worked for us in the 19th century, at a time when we were economically and militarily dominant in the world. That isn't the 21st Century position though.


    Politically astute, perhaps, but it isn't viable.

    What any government should be doing is yes onshoring vital industries, but also we need to be looking forward to the future e.g. the government do seem to be getting on with EV battery production. Machine Learning and AI is the future, promising that you can get factories making low and medium cost items back to the UK isn't going to happen.

    Trying to tell voters we can get your factory making bits and bobs back is intellectually dishonest, just as when Trump did it.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,995

    On self-isolation, and its usefulness or otherwise:

    Scientists warn that a big third wave of cases would be enormously disruptive, even if hospitalisations and deaths were greatly reduced. Case numbers stand at about 27,000 a day. “At present, we still have a tracing system where contacts have to self-isolate,” said Prof Mark Woolhouse of the University of Edinburgh. “If for every case, you’re asking five or maybe even 10 people to self-isolate, the disruption caused by a big wave will be massive. So the government may well have to think about their policy regarding contacts, for that reason.

    “The government has now got a very difficult decision to make. If they go through with the unlocking, I have to assume they are confident cases will not rise above 100,000 a day and that there won’t be a huge surge in hospitalisations. Some of the models say that is a possibility.”

    James Naismith, director of the Rosalind Franklin Institute in Oxford, said the country was now “firmly in a third wave of cases”.

    He added: “The Delta variant is still growing despite track and trace, despite testing, despite restrictions and despite masking, and unless you are lucky or extremely careful, we are all going to be exposed to Delta. And since track and trace has failed to hold back Delta in the UK, it is unclear whether its retention has any value to public health, particularly given current vaccination rates.” However, he said, vaccinations and time will eventually end the Delta wave in the UK.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/03/fears-of-summer-chaos-in-schools-and-offices-as-covid-restrictions-are-swept-away

    Chaos in schools? Has the summer holiday been abolished since I went to school?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,572
    A final note afore bed in Majorca


    Clarkson’s Farm, on Amazon Prime, is genuinely very good. It’s Jeremy Clarkson being half green, half idiotic, and as funny as he was at his best circa Peak Top Gear. But with more craggy wisdom and less cheesiness. No wonder the Guardian hates it

    Buenas Noches
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,842

    Foxy said:

    Looking at the Labour announcement on their website*, there doesn't seem to be much to it. I suppose things like this are the normal work of an Opposition - make an announcement where you promise to do something good, which involves criticising the government for not managing to make it happen, or for actively making the situation worse. Make lots of these announcements to gain attention - so necessarily there can't be too much concrete in each one.

    The one thing that is in it is:
    "Passing a law requiring public bodies to report on how much they are buying from British businesses including SMEs."

    I guess an issue here is how complicated this could get, bearing in mind how complicated in can be for rules of origin in trade deals.

    * https://labour.org.uk/press/labour-will-make-buy-and-sell-more-in-britain/

    What counts as a British business? e.g. Is Morrisons still a British business when it is taken over by the American private equity company? Their HQ will be in the UK, is that enough? Or, as in the case of Morrisons, they also own a lot of UK based food production facilities.
    AstraZeneca too - are they too Swedish to count as British?

    If I provide consultancy services do I count as 100% British, or because I work on a laptop manufactured abroad, running software developed abroad, does that mean I have non-British inputs, so I can only claim to be 80% British? That's the same as for, say, a British loo roll company important wood pulp, say.
    Rachel Reeves: Labour will be on the side of British businesses

    "Sets out proposals to insert clauses into government contracts that would "help give more public contracts to British businesses", and to require public bodies to report how much they are buying from UK firms; "

    New Labour gave loads of contracts to the UK firm Capita.....I guess she doesn't quite mean that though?

    "Pledges government support for businesses seeking to set up factories in the UK in order to "reshore" or "near-shore" production "so that their supply chains are less complicated and shorter" "

    Sounds a bit Trumpian....Red meat for the red wall...but not really realistic in the 21st Century globalized economy, unless they are going to have a trade war with China?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/03/rachel-reeves-labour-will-side-british-businesses/
    I think it an astute policy. Brexit could be Free Trade or it could be protectionism. That is potentially clear red water that is popular in Labour target seats. I am not so convinced about "Free Trade" as many. It worked for us in the 19th century, at a time when we were economically and militarily dominant in the world. That isn't the 21st Century position though.


    Politically astute, perhaps, but it isn't viable.

    What any government should be doing is yes onshoring vital industries, but also we need to be looking forward to the future e.g. the government do seem to be getting on with EV battery production.

    Trying to tell voters we can get your factory making bits and bobs back is intellectually dishonest, just as when Trump did it.
    It think it quite dishonest too, but lying about the benefits of Brexit has a long pedigree. The Brexiteer elite are international free traders, but the majority of the Brexit cannon fodder are more protectionist. Like I said, clear red water.

  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    I am hearing from younger relatives in London that they and all their friends have switched off the tracing app because they are being asked to isolate too often (!)

    Not a surprise. With cases growing increasingly widespread amongst the young, and hospitality up and running, it only takes one individual to get ill and return a positive Covid test and everyone who's been in every venue they've frequented at around the same time during the preceding week is going to get pinged. It's very disruptive and liable to have a minimal suppressant effect on transmission.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited July 2021
    Leon said:

    A final note afore bed in Majorca


    Clarkson’s Farm, on Amazon Prime, is genuinely very good. It’s Jeremy Clarkson being half green, half idiotic, and as funny as he was at his best circa Peak Top Gear. But with more craggy wisdom and less cheesiness. No wonder the Guardian hates it

    Buenas Noches

    I enjoyed it. Particularly the episodes when it was "serious" time e.g. lambing and harvest. Yes there is some "oh look what's happened here", but not to the stupid OTT extent of The Grand Tour, and I think you see more of the real Clarkson, as some of the stuff he is doing matter, like really matters e.g. lambs popping out left, right and centre, there isn't room for oh look I crashed the Bentley into the barn....

    Also the two helpers on the farm are real people who have worked that farm for years, but are absolute characters, where as we again May and Hammond have long been acting their roles up to the max.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,842

    Leon said:

    A final note afore bed in Majorca


    Clarkson’s Farm, on Amazon Prime, is genuinely very good. It’s Jeremy Clarkson being half green, half idiotic, and as funny as he was at his best circa Peak Top Gear. But with more craggy wisdom and less cheesiness. No wonder the Guardian hates it

    Buenas Noches

    I enjoyed it. Particularly the episodes when it was "serious" time e.g. lambing and harvest. Yes there is some "oh look what's happened here", but not to the stupid OTT extent of The Grand Tour, and I think you see more of the real Clarkson, as some of the stuff he is doing matter, like really matters e.g. lambs popping out left, right and centre, there isn't room for oh look I crashed the Bentley into the barn....
    I ate a leg of ham from Mr Clarksons farm, brought by a family member who works with him. It was rather good.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,106
    Leon said:

    A final note afore bed in Majorca


    Clarkson’s Farm, on Amazon Prime, is genuinely very good. It’s Jeremy Clarkson being half green, half idiotic, and as funny as he was at his best circa Peak Top Gear. But with more craggy wisdom and less cheesiness. No wonder the Guardian hates it

    Buenas Noches

    I thought it was great. I learnt a lot about farming and was thoroughly entertained.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,106
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    A final note afore bed in Majorca


    Clarkson’s Farm, on Amazon Prime, is genuinely very good. It’s Jeremy Clarkson being half green, half idiotic, and as funny as he was at his best circa Peak Top Gear. But with more craggy wisdom and less cheesiness. No wonder the Guardian hates it

    Buenas Noches

    I enjoyed it. Particularly the episodes when it was "serious" time e.g. lambing and harvest. Yes there is some "oh look what's happened here", but not to the stupid OTT extent of The Grand Tour, and I think you see more of the real Clarkson, as some of the stuff he is doing matter, like really matters e.g. lambs popping out left, right and centre, there isn't room for oh look I crashed the Bentley into the barn....
    I ate a leg of ham from Mr Clarksons farm, brought by a family member who works with him. It was rather good.
    Must be a spoiler from Series 2 because he doesn't keep pigs in Series 1.
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    Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 178


    On self-isolation, and its usefulness or otherwise:

    Scientists warn that a big third wave of cases would be enormously disruptive, even if hospitalisations and deaths were greatly reduced. Case numbers stand at about 27,000 a day. “At present, we still have a tracing system where contacts have to self-isolate,” said Prof Mark Woolhouse of the University of Edinburgh. “If for every case, you’re asking five or maybe even 10 people to self-isolate, the disruption caused by a big wave will be massive. So the government may well have to think about their policy regarding contacts, for that reason.

    “The government has now got a very difficult decision to make. If they go through with the unlocking, I have to assume they are confident cases will not rise above 100,000 a day and that there won’t be a huge surge in hospitalisations. Some of the models say that is a possibility.”

    James Naismith, director of the Rosalind Franklin Institute in Oxford, said the country was now “firmly in a third wave of cases”.

    He added: “The Delta variant is still growing despite track and trace, despite testing, despite restrictions and despite masking, and unless you are lucky or extremely careful, we are all going to be exposed to Delta. And since track and trace has failed to hold back Delta in the UK, it is unclear whether its retention has any value to public health, particularly given current vaccination rates.” However, he said, vaccinations and time will eventually end the Delta wave in the UK.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/03/fears-of-summer-chaos-in-schools-and-offices-as-covid-restrictions-are-swept-away

    I am hearing from younger relatives in London that they and all their friends have switched off the tracing app because they are being asked to isolate too often (!)

    Everyone should delete it, now

    This surveillance has gone on long enough.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,445


    On self-isolation, and its usefulness or otherwise:

    Scientists warn that a big third wave of cases would be enormously disruptive, even if hospitalisations and deaths were greatly reduced. Case numbers stand at about 27,000 a day. “At present, we still have a tracing system where contacts have to self-isolate,” said Prof Mark Woolhouse of the University of Edinburgh. “If for every case, you’re asking five or maybe even 10 people to self-isolate, the disruption caused by a big wave will be massive. So the government may well have to think about their policy regarding contacts, for that reason.

    “The government has now got a very difficult decision to make. If they go through with the unlocking, I have to assume they are confident cases will not rise above 100,000 a day and that there won’t be a huge surge in hospitalisations. Some of the models say that is a possibility.”

    James Naismith, director of the Rosalind Franklin Institute in Oxford, said the country was now “firmly in a third wave of cases”.

    He added: “The Delta variant is still growing despite track and trace, despite testing, despite restrictions and despite masking, and unless you are lucky or extremely careful, we are all going to be exposed to Delta. And since track and trace has failed to hold back Delta in the UK, it is unclear whether its retention has any value to public health, particularly given current vaccination rates.” However, he said, vaccinations and time will eventually end the Delta wave in the UK.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/03/fears-of-summer-chaos-in-schools-and-offices-as-covid-restrictions-are-swept-away

    I am hearing from younger relatives in London that they and all their friends have switched off the tracing app because they are being asked to isolate too often (!)

    I have heard from an impeccable source that students refused to get tested when unis were running testing all over the campuses last autumn because they would be told to self isolate and miss the parties.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,842

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    A final note afore bed in Majorca


    Clarkson’s Farm, on Amazon Prime, is genuinely very good. It’s Jeremy Clarkson being half green, half idiotic, and as funny as he was at his best circa Peak Top Gear. But with more craggy wisdom and less cheesiness. No wonder the Guardian hates it

    Buenas Noches

    I enjoyed it. Particularly the episodes when it was "serious" time e.g. lambing and harvest. Yes there is some "oh look what's happened here", but not to the stupid OTT extent of The Grand Tour, and I think you see more of the real Clarkson, as some of the stuff he is doing matter, like really matters e.g. lambs popping out left, right and centre, there isn't room for oh look I crashed the Bentley into the barn....
    I ate a leg of ham from Mr Clarksons farm, brought by a family member who works with him. It was rather good.
    Must be a spoiler from Series 2 because he doesn't keep pigs in Series 1.
    It was about 5 years ago, so before filming started. He gives them as Christmas presents, which is how my relative got it.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,848
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    To my mind Harry Maguire is an incarnation of a stout yoeman who would have led the archers at Agincourt.

    Rather Irish surname for those days indeed:


    What preposterous bollocks. Everyone came from somewhere else. Which one of the players is a Beaker Folkperson, eh? Whose family was here during the Ice Age incursions?

    From what point in time in our story of insular settlement do you become an immigrant and not truly “English”?
    No, I think that the migration was a lot more recent than that. Kane's father from Galway for example.

    It's not me that is denying the benefits of immigration to the country.
    It's such transparent posturing though is the problem. As if there are loads of people going around saying no one should immigrate (since someone who only wants 1000 to immigrate per year is still accepting there are benefits to immigration, they just clearly don't think it's a lot).

    Unless someone does hold that zero immigration position the attempt at moral superiority (in this way at least) is pointless, since someone could have a really harsh view on immigration and just say 'Well that was legal immigration/ah, it's the total number that's key, so of course it's great that all those players come from a diverse background/ there's benefits to the right immigration' and so on.

    I just don't think it is the massive slam dunk that will leave the immigration hawks floundering that some clearly think it is (the sense of "aha, let's see 'em try to handle this mind blowing fact about diversity in football players") the idea of which seems to give some people a great big stiffy.
    Its not even numbers though. A lot like myself weren't necessarily objecting to the numbers but the quality. I really don't see the value in the immigration of say a polish barista.....I absolutely see the value of an indian doctor (or reverse the nationalities). Immigration of low wage staff that will barely pay tax cannot be a value proposition as it will still require an uplift in amenities such as housing, hospitals, doctors, schools, roads. If we want 300,000 a year be honest about it and target those places at high skilled people who will be a real benefit
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,445
    Anna Mikhailova
    @AVMikhailova
    ·
    8m
    EXC
    Sajid Javid - opening up will make us healthier


  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,445

    Naomi Canton
    @naomi2009
    ·
    20m
    EXCLUSIVE Sajid Javid goes full speed ahead towards lifting ALL lockdown restrictions to 'make Britain the most open country in Europe' from July 19 in dramatic tone shift from shamed predecessor Matt Hancock
  • Options
    Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 178
    edited July 2021
    Lefties pointing out the England team are made up of mainly second generation Brits are as dumb as the ones who say our flat screens are made in Japan so we can't possibly complain about mass immigration.

    One has nothing to do with the other.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,842
    Nunu3 said:

    Lefties pointing out the England team are made up of mainly second generation Brits are as dumb as the ones who say our flat screens are made in Japan so we can't possibly complain about mass immigration.

    One has nothing to do with the other.

    Second generation English if you please!

    Not sure what you are on about with TV. I have never heard such rot before.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,505
    From my suburban back garden, I can hear two parties and a fairly large family gathering going on.
    Covid was only going to be over once people stopped being frightened, and they have stopped being frightened.

    I'm not actually that into football any more. But especially right now, I am into other people being into football. Something to matter more than just ticking off another day not dead. A reason to sing, and be close to people, and shake hands, and run the risk of interacting with the world without hiding behind a mask.

    It feels like a communally held depression is lifting.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    Labour🌹 win, England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 win. Not a bad week.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,025


    Naomi Canton
    @naomi2009
    ·
    20m
    EXCLUSIVE Sajid Javid goes full speed ahead towards lifting ALL lockdown restrictions to 'make Britain the most open country in Europe' from July 19 in dramatic tone shift from shamed predecessor Matt Hancock

    Fantastic news. Chris Whitty is on board as well.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,025

    Absolute scenes from the pubs of England on tonight's news. Little or no remaining pretence of Covid theatre.

    Normal life reasserting itself.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,445
    Andy_JS said:


    Naomi Canton
    @naomi2009
    ·
    20m
    EXCLUSIVE Sajid Javid goes full speed ahead towards lifting ALL lockdown restrictions to 'make Britain the most open country in Europe' from July 19 in dramatic tone shift from shamed predecessor Matt Hancock

    Fantastic news. Chris Whitty is on board as well.
    I am amazed, amazed I tell you.

    Next thing they will be changing the input parameters on Warwick's model to reflect the actual efficacy of the vaccine.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,025
    Leon said:

    Emma Raducanu is

    Well, she is, isn’t she?

    No point denying it

    Fwwooooo

    26/1 to win the tournament.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/en/tennis/wimbledon-2021/womens-tournament-betting-30636650
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,445
    Indie SAGE fretting tonight about case rise in NE England.


  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,163
    Leon said:

    A final note afore bed in Majorca


    Clarkson’s Farm, on Amazon Prime, is genuinely very good. It’s Jeremy Clarkson being half green, half idiotic, and as funny as he was at his best circa Peak Top Gear. But with more craggy wisdom and less cheesiness. No wonder the Guardian hates it

    Buenas Noches

    Yes, I’m enjoying it. Despite myself!
  • Options
    GnudGnud Posts: 298
    IshmaelZ said:

    Gnud said:

    Hmm.
    Looking at sequences, the last few games have seen England score 0, 1, 2, 4.
    Logically, therefore, we’ll score 8 against Denmark.
    And 16 in the final.

    0,1,2,4,... are Fibonacci sums.
    7 against Denmark, 12 in the final.
    I just hope my English family and friends in Dundee don't have their windows put in.
    1+2=4?
    No, like this.
    Fibonacci sequence: 0,1,1,2,3,5,...
    Sum of first n terms:
    n=1, sum = 0
    n=2, sum = 0+1 = 1
    n=3, sum = 0+1+1 = 2
    n=4, sum = 0+1+1+2 = 4
    n=5, sum = 0+1+1+2+3 = 7
    n=6, sum = 0+1+1+2+3+5 = 12

    :smile:
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,505


    Naomi Canton
    @naomi2009
    ·
    20m
    EXCLUSIVE Sajid Javid goes full speed ahead towards lifting ALL lockdown restrictions to 'make Britain the most open country in Europe' from July 19 in dramatic tone shift from shamed predecessor Matt Hancock

    Yay! Fuck you, Hancock.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,906

    Roger said:

    Nice end line by Lineker

    Next stop Rome 'They've only blown the bloody scores off'

    Next Stop Rome? They play at Wembley next....and The Italian Job was set in Turin not Rome....
    Pedantic even by your standards! I doubt GL is a film buff. If he had been he might have known there was a remake done in 2003 partly set in Venice. I know this because my girlfriend was first AD for the Italian sequences.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,163

    I am hearing from younger relatives in London that they and all their friends have switched off the tracing app because they are being asked to isolate too often (!)

    Not a surprise. With cases growing increasingly widespread amongst the young, and hospitality up and running, it only takes one individual to get ill and return a positive Covid test and everyone who's been in every venue they've frequented at around the same time during the preceding week is going to get pinged. It's very disruptive and liable to have a minimal suppressant effect on transmission.
    Yup. Everyone is turning it off, or else just taking a picture of the QR code. No such luck in schools, where children are missing their proms, class parties and theatre productions because they are sitting at home for ten days despite nothing whatsoever being wrong with them.

    P.S. come on England!
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,032
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Emma Raducanu is

    Well, she is, isn’t she?

    No point denying it

    Fwwooooo

    26/1 to win the tournament.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/en/tennis/wimbledon-2021/womens-tournament-betting-30636650
    Can I be the first to recommend laying her?
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,505

    Indie SAGE fretting tonight about case rise in NE England.


    It's population is smaller. So rises will be steeper. As will falls. These people are either stupid or evil or both.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,163
    Cookie said:

    From my suburban back garden, I can hear two parties and a fairly large family gathering going on.
    Covid was only going to be over once people stopped being frightened, and they have stopped being frightened.

    I'm not actually that into football any more. But especially right now, I am into other people being into football. Something to matter more than just ticking off another day not dead. A reason to sing, and be close to people, and shake hands, and run the risk of interacting with the world without hiding behind a mask.

    It feels like a communally held depression is lifting.

    Yes. Just people singing and dancing carrying on the breeze here. Amazing to hear.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,445
    There's no way that 19th isn't happening now surely?

    Not even the liar in chief could get away with the briefing that is going on tonight over the end of lockdown and restrictions and then u-turn in two weeks time?

  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,505
    Cookie said:

    Indie SAGE fretting tonight about case rise in NE England.


    It's population is smaller. So rises will be steeper. As will falls. These people are either stupid or evil or both.
    ITS. I blame autocorrect!
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    There's no way that 19th isn't happening now surely?

    Not even the liar in chief could get away with the briefing that is going on tonight over the end of lockdown and restrictions and then u-turn in two weeks time?

    There was no way the second the Matt Hancock story broke.

    People have had enough now. Vaccinations will be over by the 19th too.

    There is simply not a snowballs chance in hell he can get away with kicking the can again.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,163
    Nunu3 said:

    Lefties pointing out the England team are made up of mainly second generation Brits are as dumb as the ones who say our flat screens are made in Japan so we can't possibly complain about mass immigration.

    One has nothing to do with the other.

    What are you talking about? Stupid post.
This discussion has been closed.