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The Butler did it? – politicalbetting.com

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  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,442
    edited June 2021

    alex_ said:

    Another reason why some people continue to pay in cash is because some people can't get bank accounts.

    Perhaps the Government should legislate for banks to offer bank accounts for all who want them...

    Still, maybe that's "disgustingly authoritarian" as well.

    They have.
    There is an interesting disconnect between Europe and the US on this. With the rise of the alt-banks in Europe, the general situation is that anyone can get a bank account - without credit. Revolut, for example give free setup - and then charge a small amount for issuing an actual card...

    When one of these companies wanted to setup in the US, they were hammered at politically. From the left. A bit puzzled, they talked to some political consultants. Who pointed out that, in the US, banking without lots of charges sounded incredible. And that they would be treading on the toes of lots of local activists with credit unions etc.
    Yeah, the concept of free banking seems alien to so many countries.

    FWIW - I think free banking as we know it in the UK will end in the future, but with some benefits to offset that.
    Benefits? Some shitty loyalty card scheme that's of no practical use for anything, I should imagine. To add insult to the injury of their 0.01% interest rates.
    For example LBG and Barclays are offering cash backs of up to 10% with certain retailers.

    I know one banking group is thinking offering free AA membership for all current account members in exchange for a small fee a month which would be cheaper than getting the AA membership.
    1 - We already have the concept of the "Basic Bank Account" to cover that which came in a long long time ago. No overdraft, no credit, offered by a dozen or more big players.
    https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/basic-bank-accounts

    2 - We also have the 'added services for a fee'. My Nationwide Flexaccount Plus gives Worldwide travel insurance including with diabetes if declared iirc, breakdown service across Europe / UK worldwide mobile phone insurance, for the family. Can even be a joint account. £13 a month.

    Have to admit I thought those were everywhere.

    Who on earth are these Johny-come-latelies?
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    I'm worried about the Guardian.

    I just went on to check the Observer editorial that incensed Owen Jones (apparently it's "legitimising the obsessive media onslaught against trans people" but seemed fairly balanced to me)

    At the end of the article, the website gave me "Congratulations for being one of our top readers globally" having read 178 articles so far this year.

    That's less than one article a day, and I'm one of their "top readers, globally"?!? If true, they're completely screwed..

    They may have a very broude definition of 'Top Readers' it was it accompanied by and appeal to donate to them?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,183

    When Germany make the final and lose to France, nobody will remember they were a shit team, just that Germany again made a final of a big tournament.

    Rather reminiscent of the 2002 World Cup:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_FIFA_World_Cup

    Last 16 - Slovakia
    QF - USA (who should have beaten them)
    SF - South Korea

    Lost 2-0 to Brazil in the final.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,262

    I'm worried about the Guardian.

    I just went on to check the Observer editorial that incensed Owen Jones (apparently it's "legitimising the obsessive media onslaught against trans people" but seemed fairly balanced to me)

    At the end of the article, the website gave me "Congratulations for being one of our top readers globally" having read 178 articles so far this year.

    That's less than one article a day, and I'm one of their "top readers, globally"?!? If true, they're completely screwed..

    I got that, I'm on 45 apparently
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,933

    If that picture's anything to go by, then Dawn Butler's got a great smile. She looks friendly; approachable; genuine; even (to me, at least) cute.

    I think that's a useful trait in a politician. Naturally it's subjective, but to me, Corbyn didn't really have a pleasant smile (when he wasn't scowling), and neither IMO has Diane Abbott. Boris Johnson's face is expressive, but not exactly approachable or genuine. Rishi's smile is pleasant, whilst Pritti's makes her look somewhat mischievous. Rayner's smile is also pleasant and genuine-looking.

    How many politicians can do a 'good' smile, and how much is that worth in votes?

    Corbyn smiled? I thought his face showed that he considered the entire world a desperate disappointment.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Cash is on its way out.

    The pandemic has accelerated it.

    More than seven million consumers registered to use phones and smart watches to make payments last year, new figures from Britain's banking industry show.

    Mobile payments - unlike the wider use of contactless cards - are notably more popular among young people with just over 50% of 16 to 34 year olds registered compared to 11% of over-65s.

    The figures from industry body UK Finance showed that overall 17.3 million people, or 32% of the adult population were using them by the end of last year, up by 7.4 million from 2019.

    They also showed that lockdowns had resulted in the overall number of payments made in the UK falling last year for the first time in six years, by 11% to 35.6 billion.

    In 2020, contactless represented 27% of all payments, up from 7% just four years earlier, the figures showed, with 83% of people now using this method - popular across all age groups and regions.

    The increase was encouraged by the upper limit on the value of such transactions being increased from £30 to £45.

    Meanwhile there was a sharp fall in the use of cash, which was used for only 17% of payments in the UK, while there were 13.7 million people who used cash only once a month or not at all.


    https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/millions-more-using-phones-smart-160900245.html

    I'd like to stress my father loves paying for stuff on his watch, so it just isn't the youff that use their smartphones and smartwatches.

    My very elderly Aunt thinks it very cool and space age that she can wave her mobile in the vague vicinity of the machine to pay.

    One thing that few people think of - small shops find cash a real problem. Too small to get deliveries and drops off with real security.....
    Same with my mother and her friends.

    One of the other advantages of paying for stuff on credit cards, as opposed to cash, is the Section 75 protection you get for purchases over £100.

    Also I think I've earn about £800 a year in Nectar points thanks to my Sainsbury's credit card.
    Push off your risk onto the poor innocent bankers why don’t you
    Absolutely.
    May be we should charge a fee for the insurance service?
    Typical lawyer banker, wanting to charge for everything.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    I'll probably set off a Kinabalu alert, but I don't believe that lesbians can have penises.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,883

    When Germany make the final and lose to France, nobody will remember they were a shit team, just that Germany again made a final of a big tournament.

    Yup.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768

    I'm worried about the Guardian.

    I just went on to check the Observer editorial that incensed Owen Jones (apparently it's "legitimising the obsessive media onslaught against trans people" but seemed fairly balanced to me)

    At the end of the article, the website gave me "Congratulations for being one of our top readers globally" having read 178 articles so far this year.

    That's less than one article a day, and I'm one of their "top readers, globally"?!? If true, they're completely screwed..

    I got that, I'm on 45 apparently
    I think I'm on over 700 articles.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,057

    I'm worried about the Guardian.

    I just went on to check the Observer editorial that incensed Owen Jones (apparently it's "legitimising the obsessive media onslaught against trans people" but seemed fairly balanced to me)

    At the end of the article, the website gave me "Congratulations for being one of our top readers globally" having read 178 articles so far this year.

    That's less than one article a day, and I'm one of their "top readers, globally"?!? If true, they're completely screwed..

    178 is exactly one article a day. Perhaps if not one of their top readers, you are their most regular.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    BigRich said:

    I'm worried about the Guardian.

    I just went on to check the Observer editorial that incensed Owen Jones (apparently it's "legitimising the obsessive media onslaught against trans people" but seemed fairly balanced to me)

    At the end of the article, the website gave me "Congratulations for being one of our top readers globally" having read 178 articles so far this year.

    That's less than one article a day, and I'm one of their "top readers, globally"?!? If true, they're completely screwed..

    They may have a very broude definition of 'Top Readers' it was it accompanied by and appeal to donate to them?
    Of course it was, the filthy scroungers!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,230
    edited June 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Imagine you have a son aged say, 18 -20, who hooks up with a woman over drinks in a club and they end up going back for "coffee".

    As they undress your son feels that something isn't quite right and the woman says proudly that she used to be a man but is now a woman complete with parts fashioned by a surgeon. Your son, who is now suffering from a severe case of floppy-dick, politely backs-up and makes his excuses.

    The next day the woman (gender) (man (sex)) files a complaint against your son for a "hate crime" because he has clearly shown discrimination towards a transgender person.

    Where does your sympathy lie? You may say this is far-fetched - but it isn't - we're getting there and may already be there.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited June 2021
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DavidL said:

    If that picture's anything to go by, then Dawn Butler's got a great smile. She looks friendly; approachable; genuine; even (to me, at least) cute.

    I think that's a useful trait in a politician. Naturally it's subjective, but to me, Corbyn didn't really have a pleasant smile (when he wasn't scowling), and neither IMO has Diane Abbott. Boris Johnson's face is expressive, but not exactly approachable or genuine. Rishi's smile is pleasant, whilst Pritti's makes her look somewhat mischievous. Rayner's smile is also pleasant and genuine-looking.

    How many politicians can do a 'good' smile, and how much is that worth in votes?

    Corbyn smiled? I thought his face showed that he considered the entire world a desperate disappointment.
    Isn't he just about the definition of a 'gammon'?

    image
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    edited June 2021
    Christ.. seeing the other tallies, maybe I AM a top global reader..

    Edit.. just seen TSE's. Phew!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646
    .

    I'm worried about the Guardian.

    I just went on to check the Observer editorial that incensed Owen Jones (apparently it's "legitimising the obsessive media onslaught against trans people" but seemed fairly balanced to me)

    At the end of the article, the website gave me "Congratulations for being one of our top readers globally" having read 178 articles so far this year.

    That's less than one article a day, and I'm one of their "top readers, globally"?!? If true, they're completely screwed..

    I got that, I'm on 45 apparently
    I think I'm on over 700 articles.
    Don’t you ever clear your cookies?

    With that and the Sainsbury’s card, you’re a data marketing analyst’s wet dream.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    Thoughts and prayers for Matt Goodwin.

    Le Pen's far-right fails to win any region in France vote, according to estimates

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1409211037639917572
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    I'll probably set off a Kinabalu alert, but I don't believe that lesbians can have penises.
    Everyone seemed to have missed the point of my original comment… it wasn’t meant to be taken seriously… merely an opportunity opening up…
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,363
    edited June 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    So if a woman doesn't want men walking into women's changing rooms with their dick and bollocks swinging about then that's just prurient?

    The issue with the trans debate is that it is forcing itself into women's issues.

    Gay relationships was a completely different issue, for gay marriage there was no issue - if you don't want to be in a gay marriage then don't marry someone of the same gender. Nobody was forced to have a gay person be in their own relationship.

    But if a woman wants to be in a woman's only space, or to compete against women in sport, then a biological man identifying as a woman is forcing themselves into their space. Into their sport.
    "Prurient" referred to the fascination with the sex lives of trans people. That was totally clear and incapable of being misconstrued. I thought.

    And, yes, there are issues to be resolved if self-ID were to be the sole basis for legal gender. And maybe not all of them could be. In which case self-ID can't be the sole basis for legal gender.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    Sandpit said:

    .

    I'm worried about the Guardian.

    I just went on to check the Observer editorial that incensed Owen Jones (apparently it's "legitimising the obsessive media onslaught against trans people" but seemed fairly balanced to me)

    At the end of the article, the website gave me "Congratulations for being one of our top readers globally" having read 178 articles so far this year.

    That's less than one article a day, and I'm one of their "top readers, globally"?!? If true, they're completely screwed..

    I got that, I'm on 45 apparently
    I think I'm on over 700 articles.
    Don’t you ever clear your cookies?

    With that and the Sainsbury’s card, you’re a data marketing analyst’s wet dream.
    I don't need to clear my cookies and history, I've got nothing to hide.

    My search history is nothing but clean stuff.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,363
    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    You won't find me guilt-shaming any lesbians, Charles. Never happened. Never will.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    It's a good example of an utterly reactionary viewpoint being disguised in progressive-sounding language.
    Yes - too many people see the word "rights" and think it must be a good thing without realising that this will - if the extremists have their way - the elimination or diminution of many existing rights for women.
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    I'd say you're the one letting it all hang out.

    The "it" being pig ignorant, supercilious bigotry.
    I'll bite.

    Do you think that a man should be allowed to do this?
    I'm not sure enough to make a blanket statement about it. Ditto the other way, male spaces.
    At risk of sounding rather sexist against my own sex:

    I very much doubt if a biological woman doing what this person did in men’s changing rooms would attract complaints.

    Lots of other sorts of remarks, but not complaints.
    That is the point: a man exposing himself to women is a potential sexual threat. A woman doing so to men is not.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,057
    DavidL said:

    If that picture's anything to go by, then Dawn Butler's got a great smile. She looks friendly; approachable; genuine; even (to me, at least) cute.

    I think that's a useful trait in a politician. Naturally it's subjective, but to me, Corbyn didn't really have a pleasant smile (when he wasn't scowling), and neither IMO has Diane Abbott. Boris Johnson's face is expressive, but not exactly approachable or genuine. Rishi's smile is pleasant, whilst Pritti's makes her look somewhat mischievous. Rayner's smile is also pleasant and genuine-looking.

    How many politicians can do a 'good' smile, and how much is that worth in votes?

    Corbyn smiled? I thought his face showed that he considered the entire world a desperate disappointment.
    If you compare pictures of Corbyn in 2017 and 2019, he looks like he might have had a stroke, with one side of his face fallen. In addition, his special glasses lens (not sure of the technical term) prevents eye contact. That might be part of the explanation for Labour's worse performance last time.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    So if a woman doesn't want men walking into women's changing rooms with their dick and bollocks swinging about then that's just prurient?

    The issue with the trans debate is that it is forcing itself into women's issues.

    Gay relationships was a completely different issue, for gay marriage there was no issue - if you don't want to be in a gay marriage then don't marry someone of the same gender. Nobody was forced to have a gay person be in their own relationship.

    But if a woman wants to be in a woman's only space, or to compete against women in sport, then a biological man identifying as a woman is forcing themselves into their space. Into their sport.
    "Prurient" referred to the fascination with the sex lives of trans people. That was totally clear and incapable of being misconstrued. I thought.

    And, yes, there are issues to be resolved if self-ID were to be the sole basis for legal gender. And maybe not all of them could be. In which case self-ID can't be the sole basis for legal gender.
    That's the issue.

    I don't have a dog in this fight personally, but its something my wife cares about and I am curious about the world my daughters are going to grow up in.

    I want them to grow up in a world where people are tolerant and women are safe. Both of those issues must be taken seriously and people who raise concerns about the latter being screamed at for being "TERFs" is not helpful.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188

    I'm worried about the Guardian.

    I just went on to check the Observer editorial that incensed Owen Jones (apparently it's "legitimising the obsessive media onslaught against trans people" but seemed fairly balanced to me)

    At the end of the article, the website gave me "Congratulations for being one of our top readers globally" having read 178 articles so far this year.

    That's less than one article a day, and I'm one of their "top readers, globally"?!? If true, they're completely screwed..

    178 is exactly one article a day. Perhaps if not one of their top readers, you are their most regular.
    I now feel I should read exactly one article per day to keep that up!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    You won't find me guilt-shaming any lesbians, Charles. Never happened. Never will.
    That was the context of the post I was replying to
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Sandpit said:

    .

    I'm worried about the Guardian.

    I just went on to check the Observer editorial that incensed Owen Jones (apparently it's "legitimising the obsessive media onslaught against trans people" but seemed fairly balanced to me)

    At the end of the article, the website gave me "Congratulations for being one of our top readers globally" having read 178 articles so far this year.

    That's less than one article a day, and I'm one of their "top readers, globally"?!? If true, they're completely screwed..

    I got that, I'm on 45 apparently
    I think I'm on over 700 articles.
    Don’t you ever clear your cookies?

    With that and the Sainsbury’s card, you’re a data marketing analyst’s wet dream.
    I don't need to clear my cookies and history, I've got nothing to hide.

    My search history is nothing but clean stuff.
    I use two different browsers. One gets cleared down after every visit ;)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    It's a good example of an utterly reactionary viewpoint being disguised in progressive-sounding language.
    Yes - too many people see the word "rights" and think it must be a good thing without realising that this will - if the extremists have their way - the elimination or diminution of many existing rights for women.
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    I'd say you're the one letting it all hang out.

    The "it" being pig ignorant, supercilious bigotry.
    I'll bite.

    Do you think that a man should be allowed to do this?
    I'm not sure enough to make a blanket statement about it. Ditto the other way, male spaces.
    At risk of sounding rather sexist against my own sex:

    I very much doubt if a biological woman doing what this person did in men’s changing rooms would attract complaints.

    Lots of other sorts of remarks, but not complaints.
    That is the point: a man exposing himself to women is a potential sexual threat. A woman doing so to men is not.
    Not true. There are cases of male rape.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    I haven't had mine, but do come down....

    Great to be @Arsenal earlier today. If you are over 18 and haven’t had a covid vaccine (or are over 40 and ready for a 2nd Pfizer), come along & get one today, tomorrow and Monday between 8am-8pm
    Walk-ins accepted but book to saving queuing #TravelSafely
    https://t.co/t87wy54C4r https://t.co/NY2DgrOjfc
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    alex_ said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    I'm worried about the Guardian.

    I just went on to check the Observer editorial that incensed Owen Jones (apparently it's "legitimising the obsessive media onslaught against trans people" but seemed fairly balanced to me)

    At the end of the article, the website gave me "Congratulations for being one of our top readers globally" having read 178 articles so far this year.

    That's less than one article a day, and I'm one of their "top readers, globally"?!? If true, they're completely screwed..

    I got that, I'm on 45 apparently
    I think I'm on over 700 articles.
    Don’t you ever clear your cookies?

    With that and the Sainsbury’s card, you’re a data marketing analyst’s wet dream.
    I don't need to clear my cookies and history, I've got nothing to hide.

    My search history is nothing but clean stuff.
    I use two different browsers. One gets cleared down after every visit ;)
    Isn't that what Incognito Mode is for? 😇
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,271
    Luxembourg Prime Minister Xavier Bettel, who took part in this week's EU summit, has tested positive for COVID-19. He's suffering from mild symptoms
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,478
    alex_ said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    I'm worried about the Guardian.

    I just went on to check the Observer editorial that incensed Owen Jones (apparently it's "legitimising the obsessive media onslaught against trans people" but seemed fairly balanced to me)

    At the end of the article, the website gave me "Congratulations for being one of our top readers globally" having read 178 articles so far this year.

    That's less than one article a day, and I'm one of their "top readers, globally"?!? If true, they're completely screwed..

    I got that, I'm on 45 apparently
    I think I'm on over 700 articles.
    Don’t you ever clear your cookies?

    With that and the Sainsbury’s card, you’re a data marketing analyst’s wet dream.
    I don't need to clear my cookies and history, I've got nothing to hide.

    My search history is nothing but clean stuff.
    I use two different browsers. One gets cleared down after every visit ;)
    There’s an autocorrect fail there where you’ve tried to type ‘cleaned.’
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646

    Luxembourg Prime Minister Xavier Bettel, who took part in this week's EU summit, has tested positive for COVID-19. He's suffering from mild symptoms

    Whoops. How many people did he meet? These leaders’ summits don’t seem to bother too much with masks or distancing - the G7 were definitely shaking hands.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Imagine you have a son aged say, 18 -20, who hooks up with a woman over drinks in a club and they end up going back for "coffee".

    As they undress your son feels that something isn't quite right and the woman says proudly that she used to be a man but is now a woman complete with parts fashioned by a surgeon. Your son, who is now suffering from a severe case of floppy-dick, politely backs-up and makes his excuses.

    The next day the woman (gender) (man (sex)) files a complaint against your son for a "hate crime" because he has clearly shown discrimination towards a transgender person.

    Where does your sympathy lie? You may say this is far-fetched - but it isn't - we're getting there and may already be there.
    No, people are not required to consent to sex and can withdraw that consent at any time and for any reason.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    I'm worried about the Guardian.

    I just went on to check the Observer editorial that incensed Owen Jones (apparently it's "legitimising the obsessive media onslaught against trans people" but seemed fairly balanced to me)

    At the end of the article, the website gave me "Congratulations for being one of our top readers globally" having read 178 articles so far this year.

    That's less than one article a day, and I'm one of their "top readers, globally"?!? If true, they're completely screwed..

    I got that, I'm on 45 apparently
    I think I'm on over 700 articles.
    Don’t you ever clear your cookies?

    With that and the Sainsbury’s card, you’re a data marketing analyst’s wet dream.
    I don't need to clear my cookies and history, I've got nothing to hide.

    My search history is nothing but clean stuff.
    I use two different browsers. One gets cleared down after every visit ;)
    There’s an autocorrect fail there where you’ve tried to type ‘cleaned.’
    The two words are practically synonyms
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,478
    Sandpit said:

    Luxembourg Prime Minister Xavier Bettel, who took part in this week's EU summit, has tested positive for COVID-19. He's suffering from mild symptoms

    Whoops. How many people did he meet? These leaders’ summits don’t seem to bother too much with masks or distancing - the G7 were definitely shaking hands.
    Would it make much difference? I’d not only sanitise my hands and hold my breath but I’d count my fingers after shaking his hand.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,363

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    I'll probably set off a Kinabalu alert, but I don't believe that lesbians can have penises.
    Lesbians can have whatever they like.

    I'll tell them it's breaking your rules but I doubt they'll care.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,933

    DavidL said:

    If that picture's anything to go by, then Dawn Butler's got a great smile. She looks friendly; approachable; genuine; even (to me, at least) cute.

    I think that's a useful trait in a politician. Naturally it's subjective, but to me, Corbyn didn't really have a pleasant smile (when he wasn't scowling), and neither IMO has Diane Abbott. Boris Johnson's face is expressive, but not exactly approachable or genuine. Rishi's smile is pleasant, whilst Pritti's makes her look somewhat mischievous. Rayner's smile is also pleasant and genuine-looking.

    How many politicians can do a 'good' smile, and how much is that worth in votes?

    Corbyn smiled? I thought his face showed that he considered the entire world a desperate disappointment.
    If you compare pictures of Corbyn in 2017 and 2019, he looks like he might have had a stroke, with one side of his face fallen. In addition, his special glasses lens (not sure of the technical term) prevents eye contact. That might be part of the explanation for Labour's worse performance last time.
    The glasses certainly didn't help him. Nor did being an idiot of course.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,363

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    So if a woman doesn't want men walking into women's changing rooms with their dick and bollocks swinging about then that's just prurient?

    The issue with the trans debate is that it is forcing itself into women's issues.

    Gay relationships was a completely different issue, for gay marriage there was no issue - if you don't want to be in a gay marriage then don't marry someone of the same gender. Nobody was forced to have a gay person be in their own relationship.

    But if a woman wants to be in a woman's only space, or to compete against women in sport, then a biological man identifying as a woman is forcing themselves into their space. Into their sport.
    "Prurient" referred to the fascination with the sex lives of trans people. That was totally clear and incapable of being misconstrued. I thought.

    And, yes, there are issues to be resolved if self-ID were to be the sole basis for legal gender. And maybe not all of them could be. In which case self-ID can't be the sole basis for legal gender.
    That's the issue.

    I don't have a dog in this fight personally, but its something my wife cares about and I am curious about the world my daughters are going to grow up in.

    I want them to grow up in a world where people are tolerant and women are safe. Both of those issues must be taken seriously and people who raise concerns about the latter being screamed at for being "TERFs" is not helpful.
    +1
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    alex_ said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    I'm worried about the Guardian.

    I just went on to check the Observer editorial that incensed Owen Jones (apparently it's "legitimising the obsessive media onslaught against trans people" but seemed fairly balanced to me)

    At the end of the article, the website gave me "Congratulations for being one of our top readers globally" having read 178 articles so far this year.

    That's less than one article a day, and I'm one of their "top readers, globally"?!? If true, they're completely screwed..

    I got that, I'm on 45 apparently
    I think I'm on over 700 articles.
    Don’t you ever clear your cookies?

    With that and the Sainsbury’s card, you’re a data marketing analyst’s wet dream.
    I don't need to clear my cookies and history, I've got nothing to hide.

    My search history is nothing but clean stuff.
    I use two different browsers. One gets cleared down after every visit ;)
    Isn't that what Incognito Mode is for? 😇
    That does diddly-squat. Advertisers etc have very sophisticated ways to fingerprint your device based on what fonts you have installed, what languages you have enabled, preferred screen size etc.
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    You won't find me guilt-shaming any lesbians, Charles. Never happened. Never will.
    That was the context of the post I was replying to
    My reply was meant to be to the same effect, ie that actual lesbians shouldn't have to accept "lesbians" with penises.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 2021
    Had a few convivial drinks with a former PM this afternoon.

    The rumours about Gove were confirmed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,478

    Had a few convivial drinks with a former PM this afternoon.

    The rumours about Gove were confirmed.

    Well, I don’t think Tone ever liked him, but how would he know about his sex life?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    I'd say you're the one letting it all hang out.

    The "it" being pig ignorant, supercilious bigotry.
    I'll bite.

    Do you think that a man should be allowed to do this?
    I think you are approaching this from the wrong end (ahem, as it were)

    I would say that women have a reasonable right to privacy. But there should also be unisex facilities (with individual cubicles) where both sexes plus people in transition can go
    You are missing the point. He was in the entrance of the building exposing himself. A private cubicle for people who are actually transitioning is fine.
    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    Some trans extremists have accused lesbians of being transphobic because they won't have sex with men who still have penises etc but who claim they are women.

    When I was growing up, if you didn't want to sleep with a man you sometimes got the retort that you must therefore be a lesbian (rather than a woman with good taste and eyes to see).

    And if you were a lesbian you were often told that sex with whatever slimy male git was trying to get you into bed would "convert" you.

    Now we're getting lesbians accused of being transphobic because they don't want penises thrust into them. It's an old male bullying story - dressed up in different language.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    And yet it is the logical consequence of self-id gender ideology.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,933
    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Imagine you have a son aged say, 18 -20, who hooks up with a woman over drinks in a club and they end up going back for "coffee".

    As they undress your son feels that something isn't quite right and the woman says proudly that she used to be a man but is now a woman complete with parts fashioned by a surgeon. Your son, who is now suffering from a severe case of floppy-dick, politely backs-up and makes his excuses.

    The next day the woman (gender) (man (sex)) files a complaint against your son for a "hate crime" because he has clearly shown discrimination towards a transgender person.

    Where does your sympathy lie? You may say this is far-fetched - but it isn't - we're getting there and may already be there.
    No, people are not required to consent to sex and can withdraw that consent at any time and for any reason.
    Well, I took me a woman late last night
    I's three-fourths drunk she looked all right
    'Til she started peelin' off her onion gook
    She took off her wig, said, "How do I look" ?
    I's high flyin', bare naked ...Out the window.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,057
    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    I'm worried about the Guardian.

    I just went on to check the Observer editorial that incensed Owen Jones (apparently it's "legitimising the obsessive media onslaught against trans people" but seemed fairly balanced to me)

    At the end of the article, the website gave me "Congratulations for being one of our top readers globally" having read 178 articles so far this year.

    That's less than one article a day, and I'm one of their "top readers, globally"?!? If true, they're completely screwed..

    I got that, I'm on 45 apparently
    I think I'm on over 700 articles.
    Don’t you ever clear your cookies?

    With that and the Sainsbury’s card, you’re a data marketing analyst’s wet dream.
    I don't need to clear my cookies and history, I've got nothing to hide.

    My search history is nothing but clean stuff.
    I use two different browsers. One gets cleared down after every visit ;)
    There’s an autocorrect fail there where you’ve tried to type ‘cleaned.’
    The two words are practically synonyms
    Oh sweet innocent child.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,363
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    I'll probably set off a Kinabalu alert, but I don't believe that lesbians can have penises.
    Everyone seemed to have missed the point of my original comment… it wasn’t meant to be taken seriously… merely an opportunity opening up…
    Nor mine. :smile:

    But look, seriously, all this nonsense about trans people being talked. C'mon.

    Not so much you @Cyclefree - we'll do this one properly some time. I agree and disagree with you.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited June 2021

    Had a few convivial drinks with a former PM this afternoon.

    The rumours about Gove were confirmed.

    So he has to resign?

    Here’s the thing. Hancock had to go for breaking the rules, not for having an affair. But is it possible for any married politician to have had an affair in the last six months without breaking the rules?

    So isn’t this basically media open season on Ministerial sex lives?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,543
    edited June 2021
    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    It's a good example of an utterly reactionary viewpoint being disguised in progressive-sounding language.
    Yes - too many people see the word "rights" and think it must be a good thing without realising that this will - if the extremists have their way - the elimination or diminution of many existing rights for women.
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    I'd say you're the one letting it all hang out.

    The "it" being pig ignorant, supercilious bigotry.
    I'll bite.

    Do you think that a man should be allowed to do this?
    I'm not sure enough to make a blanket statement about it. Ditto the other way, male spaces.
    At risk of sounding rather sexist against my own sex:

    I very much doubt if a biological woman doing what this person did in men’s changing rooms would attract complaints.

    Lots of other sorts of remarks, but not complaints.
    That is the point: a man exposing himself to women is a potential sexual threat. A woman doing so to men is not.
    Moral Statute Machine: Your repeated violation of the Verbal Morality Statute has caused me to notify the San Angeles Police Department. Please remain where you are for your reprimand.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    The UK right wing press were so desperate to big up Le Pen as they see her as a vehicle to cause problems for the EU if she won the Presidency and her party has just won zero regions and has lost votes from the last elections.

    Some of her supporters aren’t happy as she’s tried to look less racist as a means to appear to a wider electorate and in fact she’s now not hateful enough for them so they stayed at home .

  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    I'll probably set off a Kinabalu alert, but I don't believe that lesbians can have penises.
    Lesbians can have whatever they like.

    I'll tell them it's breaking your rules but I doubt they'll care.
    If someone has a penis dangling between their legs then that person is NOT a lesbian. I don't care what they, you, Owen Jones, Stonewall or anyone else thinks.

    Please do tell them that if you get the chance.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,933
    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    And yet it is the logical consequence of self-id gender ideology.
    No it isn't. Because they never have to sleep with anyone they don't want to. For whatever reason.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    ydoethur said:

    Had a few convivial drinks with a former PM this afternoon.

    The rumours about Gove were confirmed.

    Well, I don’t think Tone ever liked him, but how would he know about his sex life?
    I’m not confirming who the ex-PM is.

    I assume these things are common knowledge in the Westminster village, hence Diane Abbott’s tweet for example.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,884
    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    I'll probably set off a Kinabalu alert, but I don't believe that lesbians can have penises.
    Everyone seemed to have missed the point of my original comment… it wasn’t meant to be taken seriously… merely an opportunity opening up…
    Nor mine. :smile:

    But look, seriously, all this nonsense about trans people being talked. C'mon.

    Not so much you @Cyclefree - we'll do this one properly some time. I agree and disagree with you.
    The only one talking bollocks about trans women is you. Everyone else has pretty much said no problem except they cant impinge on womens safe spaces till they have been cut. It is only you arguing any different
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    I'd say you're the one letting it all hang out.

    The "it" being pig ignorant, supercilious bigotry.
    I'll bite.

    Do you think that a man should be allowed to do this?
    I think you are approaching this from the wrong end (ahem, as it were)

    I would say that women have a reasonable right to privacy. But there should also be unisex facilities (with individual cubicles) where both sexes plus people in transition can go
    If you ever swim at the Olympic swimming pool in Stratford, they have perhaps the best facilities yet. It's a dense environment, but everyone has an individual changing cubicle, so these issues simply don't exist. When I went there I was really impressed.

    Oh yeah, and I loved the 50 Meter pool.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,543
    kinabalu said:



    "Prurient" referred to the fascination with the sex lives of trans people.

    Applies in general I think - I feel a bit uncomfortable with all the banter about Gove here. He's entitled to a love life like anyone else, and it's none of our business.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    alex_ said:

    Had a few convivial drinks with a former PM this afternoon.

    The rumours about Gove were confirmed.

    So he has to resign?
    Don’t think so, personally.
    It’s hypocrisy that saw to Hancock.

    But the SpAd angle is dicey.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646
    nico679 said:

    The UK right wing press were so desperate to big up Le Pen as they see her as a vehicle to cause problems for the EU if she won the Presidency and her party has just won zero regions and has lost votes from the last elections.

    Some of her supporters aren’t happy as she’s tried to look less racist as a means to appear to a wider electorate and in fact she’s now not hateful enough for them so they stayed at home .

    Isn’t that because Macron’s been trying hard to out-racist her, and thus made her extreme views seem much more mainstream?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,363
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Imagine you have a son aged say, 18 -20, who hooks up with a woman over drinks in a club and they end up going back for "coffee".

    As they undress your son feels that something isn't quite right and the woman says proudly that she used to be a man but is now a woman complete with parts fashioned by a surgeon. Your son, who is now suffering from a severe case of floppy-dick, politely backs-up and makes his excuses.

    The next day the woman (gender) (man (sex)) files a complaint against your son for a "hate crime" because he has clearly shown discrimination towards a transgender person.

    Where does your sympathy lie? You may say this is far-fetched - but it isn't - we're getting there and may already be there.
    With son. But that IS far fetched and we are NOT getting there. Touch paranoid imo.

    Great song though -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LemG0cvc4oU
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    On trans issues, there apparently *are* some extremely militant trans women (ie born men) who believe it is prejudice that stops other women finding them sexually attractive.

    The term is “cotton ceiling” apparently.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,363

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    I'll probably set off a Kinabalu alert, but I don't believe that lesbians can have penises.
    Lesbians can have whatever they like.

    I'll tell them it's breaking your rules but I doubt they'll care.
    If someone has a penis dangling between their legs then that person is NOT a lesbian. I don't care what they, you, Owen Jones, Stonewall or anyone else thinks.

    Please do tell them that if you get the chance.
    Ok. You're the boss on this.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    Posted without comment.

    A man flew into a violent rage during a sexual encounter with a transgender woman.

    Suhel Sood repeatedly punched the victim, slammed her head onto a washing machine, and ordered the victim to clean up her own blood after discovering she had male genitals.

    Now Sood, 34, who was fuelled by booze and cocaine, has been jailed for 16 months.

    Reading Crown Court heard the victim had arrived at a party with her boyfriend before ending up in a room alone with Sood.

    She performed a sex act on him, before Sood switched on the light and shouted 'you're a man' before attacking her and calling her a 'dog', the Mirror reports.

    "This assault arose entirely from Mr Sood discovering that she was transgender and thereafter assaulting her," Oliver Weetch, prosecuting, said.


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/thug-brutally-attacked-beautiful-woman-20883241
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    ydoethur said:

    Had a few convivial drinks with a former PM this afternoon.

    The rumours about Gove were confirmed.

    Well, I don’t think Tone ever liked him, but how would he know about his sex life?
    Maybe s/he confirmed the rumours that there were rumours ;)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,543
    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    The UK right wing press were so desperate to big up Le Pen as they see her as a vehicle to cause problems for the EU if she won the Presidency and her party has just won zero regions and has lost votes from the last elections.

    Some of her supporters aren’t happy as she’s tried to look less racist as a means to appear to a wider electorate and in fact she’s now not hateful enough for them so they stayed at home .

    Isn’t that because Macron’s been trying hard to out-racist her, and thus made her extreme views seem much more mainstream?
    The president’s LREM movement took just 7% in the race to renew 13 metropolitan councils on Sunday, while Le Pen’s National Rally got 20% of the nationwide vote, exit polls showed.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-27/macron-and-le-pen-both-flop-in-regional-poll-as-french-stay-home?utm_source=google&utm_medium=bd&cmpId=google
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    And yet it is the logical consequence of self-id gender ideology.
    No it isn't. Because they never have to sleep with anyone they don't want to. For whatever reason.
    They don't. But they are being accused of transphobia and attacked. It is one reason why some lesbian groups have set up away from Stonewall and in opposition to it, precisely because they are worried about the consequences of self-id for lesbians.

    This is a real issue for lesbians who feel that the demands of men wishing to transition are taking precedence over the rights of women and lesbians in particular.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    I'd say you're the one letting it all hang out.

    The "it" being pig ignorant, supercilious bigotry.
    I'll bite.

    Do you think that a man should be allowed to do this?
    I think you are approaching this from the wrong end (ahem, as it were)

    I would say that women have a reasonable right to privacy. But there should also be unisex facilities (with individual cubicles) where both sexes plus people in transition can go
    If you ever swim at the Olympic swimming pool in Stratford, they have perhaps the best facilities yet. It's a dense environment, but everyone has an individual changing cubicle, so these issues simply don't exist. When I went there I was really impressed.

    Oh yeah, and I loved the 50 Meter pool.
    The first time you see a 50m pool, is the same as the first time you see a snooker table - both are way bigger in reality, than you’d think from seeing them only on TV.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,363
    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    I'll probably set off a Kinabalu alert, but I don't believe that lesbians can have penises.
    Everyone seemed to have missed the point of my original comment… it wasn’t meant to be taken seriously… merely an opportunity opening up…
    Nor mine. :smile:

    But look, seriously, all this nonsense about trans people being talked. C'mon.

    Not so much you @Cyclefree - we'll do this one properly some time. I agree and disagree with you.
    The only one talking bollocks about trans women is you. Everyone else has pretty much said no problem except they cant impinge on womens safe spaces till they have been cut. It is only you arguing any different
    "till they have been cut" - right.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299
    On the subject of cash: I would be a lot more relaxed about forcing businesses to accept cash if the rules on opening bank accounts were no so byzantine. Yes, I know it's all anti money laundering, but the experience a friend of ours had was positively Byzantine.

    She's 21, a graduate of a top US University, that got accepted to do a Masters in London.

    She got the relevant visa, found a flat share, wired money over and arrived in the UK. First day, she went to go and open a bank account.

    You need to have evidence of a bank account in your home country.

    No problem. Here's my bank card and a print out of the statement.

    Print outs aren't acceptable because they don't meet AML standards.

    But the bank doesn't send me paper copies.

    Sorry, we can't open a bank account for you.

    Eventually she needed to get stuff Fedexed from the US to the UK so she could open an account which had negligible sums going through it.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,757
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cash is on its way out.

    The pandemic has accelerated it.

    More than seven million consumers registered to use phones and smart watches to make payments last year, new figures from Britain's banking industry show.

    Mobile payments - unlike the wider use of contactless cards - are notably more popular among young people with just over 50% of 16 to 34 year olds registered compared to 11% of over-65s.

    The figures from industry body UK Finance showed that overall 17.3 million people, or 32% of the adult population were using them by the end of last year, up by 7.4 million from 2019.

    They also showed that lockdowns had resulted in the overall number of payments made in the UK falling last year for the first time in six years, by 11% to 35.6 billion.

    In 2020, contactless represented 27% of all payments, up from 7% just four years earlier, the figures showed, with 83% of people now using this method - popular across all age groups and regions.

    The increase was encouraged by the upper limit on the value of such transactions being increased from £30 to £45.

    Meanwhile there was a sharp fall in the use of cash, which was used for only 17% of payments in the UK, while there were 13.7 million people who used cash only once a month or not at all.


    https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/millions-more-using-phones-smart-160900245.html

    I'd like to stress my father loves paying for stuff on his watch, so it just isn't the youff that use their smartphones and smartwatches.

    Most ordinary people don't want to see the end of cash. It's another elite project which leaves most people cold.

    This is interesting:

    "£125 BILLION OF EXTRA CASH SAVINGS DURING THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC
    Research from the Bank of England has shown that many people have built up excess cash savings during the pandemic."

    https://chasedevere.co.uk/2021/05/14/125-billion-of-extra-cash-savings-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/
    Could we at least get rid of 1 and 2p coins?
    Thats inflationary....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    I'm loving Ian Wright talking about Marvel/Loki during the football.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    I'd say you're the one letting it all hang out.

    The "it" being pig ignorant, supercilious bigotry.
    I'll bite.

    Do you think that a man should be allowed to do this?
    I think you are approaching this from the wrong end (ahem, as it were)

    I would say that women have a reasonable right to privacy. But there should also be unisex facilities (with individual cubicles) where both sexes plus people in transition can go
    If you ever swim at the Olympic swimming pool in Stratford, they have perhaps the best facilities yet. It's a dense environment, but everyone has an individual changing cubicle, so these issues simply don't exist. When I went there I was really impressed.

    Oh yeah, and I loved the 50 Meter pool.
    The first time you see a 50m pool, is the same as the first time you see a snooker table - both are way bigger in reality, than you’d think from seeing them only on TV.
    Yep, not impossible to imagine yourself drowning in one of those. Even more so if you’ve got comfortable with 10m pools at holiday villas ;)
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,884
    kinabalu said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    I'll probably set off a Kinabalu alert, but I don't believe that lesbians can have penises.
    Everyone seemed to have missed the point of my original comment… it wasn’t meant to be taken seriously… merely an opportunity opening up…
    Nor mine. :smile:

    But look, seriously, all this nonsense about trans people being talked. C'mon.

    Not so much you @Cyclefree - we'll do this one properly some time. I agree and disagree with you.
    The only one talking bollocks about trans women is you. Everyone else has pretty much said no problem except they cant impinge on womens safe spaces till they have been cut. It is only you arguing any different
    "till they have been cut" - right.
    Yes till then they still have male genitalia and I have every sympathy for women not wanting it waved in front of them....why do you think women don't get to choose not to see it and that makes them bad? Oh right yes because transgender now is higher on the totem pole in the lefty world that women so women just have to lump it correct?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,543
    nico679 said:

    The UK right wing press were so desperate to big up Le Pen as they see her as a vehicle to cause problems for the EU if she won the Presidency and her party has just won zero regions and has lost votes from the last elections.

    Some of her supporters aren’t happy as she’s tried to look less racist as a means to appear to a wider electorate and in fact she’s now not hateful enough for them so they stayed at home .

    Heart of stone not to laugh...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    The summer holidays are happening at the right time.

    Tens of thousands of pupils are being sent home to isolate as Covid cases in the young soar to their highest level since January, amid warnings that more schools will have to close.

    The number of outbreaks in schools and colleges jumped from 96 to 148, a rise of 54 per cent, in the week to June 20. It was the highest weekly number of outbreaks reported to Public Health England since December.

    School closures cause chaos for working parents, who have endured 15 months of academic mayhem, including weeks of home schooling.

    Disruption threatens what is many children’s favourite term, with sports days, end-of-year parties, leaving ceremonies and plays.

    The latest government dashboard figures show a 70 per cent weekly rise among children aged five to nine testing positive for Covid-19, mostly for the Delta variant first identified in India, and a 56 per cent jump among children aged 10-14. More than 16,100 pupils were absent from school with a suspected case of Covid in the third week of June, up from 10,600 seven days earlier.

    About 214,000 pupils were self-isolating at home due to “potential contact” with an infected person, up from 71,900 the week before.

    Kevin Courtney, joint general secretary of the biggest teachers’ union, the National Education Union, said there was “every prospect of many more children self-isolating”, with cases expected to double three times before the end of term in July.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/school-chaos-as-coronavirus-cases-up-70-in-week-8nrl6k8h5
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited June 2021
    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    I'd say you're the one letting it all hang out.

    The "it" being pig ignorant, supercilious bigotry.
    I'll bite.

    Do you think that a man should be allowed to do this?
    I think you are approaching this from the wrong end (ahem, as it were)

    I would say that women have a reasonable right to privacy. But there should also be unisex facilities (with individual cubicles) where both sexes plus people in transition can go
    You are missing the point. He was in the entrance of the building exposing himself. A private cubicle for people who are actually transitioning is fine.
    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    Some trans extremists have accused lesbians of being transphobic because they won't have sex with men who still have penises etc but who claim they are women.

    When I was growing up, if you didn't want to sleep with a man you sometimes got the retort that you must therefore be a lesbian (rather than a woman with good taste and eyes to see).

    And if you were a lesbian you were often told that sex with whatever slimy male git was trying to get you into bed would "convert" you.

    Now we're getting lesbians accused of being transphobic because they don't want penises thrust into them. It's an old male bullying story - dressed up in different language.
    One gathers the impression that the broader agenda is that (1) of course people can be whatever they want to be, and consequently (2) biological sex has to be dismissed as irrelevant, because it is an obstacle to (1).

    At the end of that road lies the eradication of sexual orientation - because if one is required to accept that trans men are men and trans women are women without any qualification, then, for example, a gay man who dismisses a trans man as a sexual partner is transphobic, unforgiveable and must be cancelled.

    The sort of people who champion this kind of radical equality agenda are invariably the same types who bore on endlessly about diversity, but the two concepts are mutually exclusive. People aren't all functionally identical and shouldn't be treated as such.

    There seems to be this tendency to describe people who are different in terms of one condition being inferior to another, but that's false. People can just be different from one another without it being some heinous social injustice.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299

    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    The UK right wing press were so desperate to big up Le Pen as they see her as a vehicle to cause problems for the EU if she won the Presidency and her party has just won zero regions and has lost votes from the last elections.

    Some of her supporters aren’t happy as she’s tried to look less racist as a means to appear to a wider electorate and in fact she’s now not hateful enough for them so they stayed at home .

    Isn’t that because Macron’s been trying hard to out-racist her, and thus made her extreme views seem much more mainstream?
    The president’s LREM movement took just 7% in the race to renew 13 metropolitan councils on Sunday, while Le Pen’s National Rally got 20% of the nationwide vote, exit polls showed.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-27/macron-and-le-pen-both-flop-in-regional-poll-as-french-stay-home?utm_source=google&utm_medium=bd&cmpId=google
    Those are pretty rubbish results for both En Marche and the Front National.

    Correspondingly, they are excellent results for Les Republicans.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    I'd say you're the one letting it all hang out.

    The "it" being pig ignorant, supercilious bigotry.
    I'll bite.

    Do you think that a man should be allowed to do this?
    I think you are approaching this from the wrong end (ahem, as it were)

    I would say that women have a reasonable right to privacy. But there should also be unisex facilities (with individual cubicles) where both sexes plus people in transition can go
    You are missing the point. He was in the entrance of the building exposing himself. A private cubicle for people who are actually transitioning is fine.
    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    Some trans extremists have accused lesbians of being transphobic because they won't have sex with men who still have penises etc but who claim they are women.

    When I was growing up, if you didn't want to sleep with a man you sometimes got the retort that you must therefore be a lesbian (rather than a woman with good taste and eyes to see).

    And if you were a lesbian you were often told that sex with whatever slimy male git was trying to get you into bed would "convert" you.

    Now we're getting lesbians accused of being transphobic because they don't want penises thrust into them. It's an old male bullying story - dressed up in different language.
    One gathers the impression that the broader agenda is that (1) of course people can be whatever they want to be, and consequently (2) biological sex has to be dismissed as irrelevant, because it is an obstacle to (1).

    At the end of that road lies the eradication of sexual orientation - because if one is required to accept that trans men are men and trans women are women without any qualification, then, for example, a gay man who dismisses a trans man is a sexual partner is transphobic, unforgiveable and must be cancelled.

    The sort of people who champion this kind of radical equality agenda are invariably the same types who bore on endlessly about diversity, but the two concepts are mutually exclusive. People aren't all functionally identical and shouldn't be treated as such.
    I suspect there are about three people on Earth who think this way, but frustratingly they get all the re-tweets.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Posted without comment.

    A man flew into a violent rage during a sexual encounter with a transgender woman.

    Suhel Sood repeatedly punched the victim, slammed her head onto a washing machine, and ordered the victim to clean up her own blood after discovering she had male genitals.

    Now Sood, 34, who was fuelled by booze and cocaine, has been jailed for 16 months.

    Reading Crown Court heard the victim had arrived at a party with her boyfriend before ending up in a room alone with Sood.

    She performed a sex act on him, before Sood switched on the light and shouted 'you're a man' before attacking her and calling her a 'dog', the Mirror reports.

    "This assault arose entirely from Mr Sood discovering that she was transgender and thereafter assaulting her," Oliver Weetch, prosecuting, said.


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/thug-brutally-attacked-beautiful-woman-20883241

    I know a guy who on a stag do in Amsterdam decide to improve his .....A level education ....in the red light district

    Afterwards it became clear the sex worker had male genitalia

    He was very upset and was in tears when he got back to the hotel.

    The others were really concerned and assumed he had been mugged..

    No, no you don't understand he sobbed "I've just f*****d a man"

    BIG BIG mistake to tell co workers .......

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    The UK right wing press were so desperate to big up Le Pen as they see her as a vehicle to cause problems for the EU if she won the Presidency and her party has just won zero regions and has lost votes from the last elections.

    Some of her supporters aren’t happy as she’s tried to look less racist as a means to appear to a wider electorate and in fact she’s now not hateful enough for them so they stayed at home .

    Isn’t that because Macron’s been trying hard to out-racist her, and thus made her extreme views seem much more mainstream?
    If that was the case she would have done better . The French will never install her as President and older people aren’t duped by her new warm and cuddly image . If you can’t get older people onside you don’t win elections.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,543

    nico679 said:

    The UK right wing press were so desperate to big up Le Pen as they see her as a vehicle to cause problems for the EU if she won the Presidency and her party has just won zero regions and has lost votes from the last elections.

    Some of her supporters aren’t happy as she’s tried to look less racist as a means to appear to a wider electorate and in fact she’s now not hateful enough for them so they stayed at home .

    Heart of stone not to laugh...
    Well, it looks like Le Pen has slipped from 27% to 20%.

    LREM got 7%

    God know what will happen in the next Presidential election.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,933
    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    And yet it is the logical consequence of self-id gender ideology.
    No it isn't. Because they never have to sleep with anyone they don't want to. For whatever reason.
    They don't. But they are being accused of transphobia and attacked. It is one reason why some lesbian groups have set up away from Stonewall and in opposition to it, precisely because they are worried about the consequences of self-id for lesbians.

    This is a real issue for lesbians who feel that the demands of men wishing to transition are taking precedence over the rights of women and lesbians in particular.
    I suspect we are largely in agreement here.

    If a man wants to dress as a woman that is no problem.
    If a man want to live as a woman that is no problem.
    If a man wants to take part in women's sporting events that are restricted to women that is a problem. However he/she wishes to self identify, he/she does not qualify. The weight lifting thing in the Olympics is absurd.
    If a man wants to make use of "safe spaces" for women such as toilets, prisons, changing rooms there is a conflict of rights but in my view that conflict should be resolved in favour of those born with the sex of a women if they are at risk. That is why those spaces exist.

    But no one, ever, is obliged to have sex with anyone else. That is all I was saying.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820
    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    I'd say you're the one letting it all hang out.

    The "it" being pig ignorant, supercilious bigotry.
    I'll bite.

    Do you think that a man should be allowed to do this?
    I think you are approaching this from the wrong end (ahem, as it were)

    I would say that women have a reasonable right to privacy. But there should also be unisex facilities (with individual cubicles) where both sexes plus people in transition can go
    You are missing the point. He was in the entrance of the building exposing himself. A private cubicle for people who are actually transitioning is fine.

    I would regard that as inappropriate in a male changing room/toilet too.

    Perhaps there needs to be better rules on inappropriate behaviour independent of gender in such facilities.

    Cottaging doesn't seem so common in men's toilets as in the Eighties, but could be a bit intimidating back then.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820

    nico679 said:

    The UK right wing press were so desperate to big up Le Pen as they see her as a vehicle to cause problems for the EU if she won the Presidency and her party has just won zero regions and has lost votes from the last elections.

    Some of her supporters aren’t happy as she’s tried to look less racist as a means to appear to a wider electorate and in fact she’s now not hateful enough for them so they stayed at home .

    Heart of stone not to laugh...
    Well, it looks like Le Pen has slipped from 27% to 20%.

    LREM got 7%

    God know what will happen in the next Presidential election.
    I think the conventional right will win.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646
    alex_ said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    I'd say you're the one letting it all hang out.

    The "it" being pig ignorant, supercilious bigotry.
    I'll bite.

    Do you think that a man should be allowed to do this?
    I think you are approaching this from the wrong end (ahem, as it were)

    I would say that women have a reasonable right to privacy. But there should also be unisex facilities (with individual cubicles) where both sexes plus people in transition can go
    If you ever swim at the Olympic swimming pool in Stratford, they have perhaps the best facilities yet. It's a dense environment, but everyone has an individual changing cubicle, so these issues simply don't exist. When I went there I was really impressed.

    Oh yeah, and I loved the 50 Meter pool.
    The first time you see a 50m pool, is the same as the first time you see a snooker table - both are way bigger in reality, than you’d think from seeing them only on TV.
    Yep, not impossible to imagine yourself drowning in one of those. Even more so if you’ve got comfortable with 10m pools at holiday villas ;)
    I guess most people are much more comfortable with the size of a 25m pool and a pool table, which are half the size, right? Nope, they’re a quarter of the size!

    (Exact sizes may vary slightly).
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    I'd say you're the one letting it all hang out.

    The "it" being pig ignorant, supercilious bigotry.
    I'll bite.

    Do you think that a man should be allowed to do this?
    I think you are approaching this from the wrong end (ahem, as it were)

    I would say that women have a reasonable right to privacy. But there should also be unisex facilities (with individual cubicles) where both sexes plus people in transition can go
    You are missing the point. He was in the entrance of the building exposing himself. A private cubicle for people who are actually transitioning is fine.
    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    Some trans extremists have accused lesbians of being transphobic because they won't have sex with men who still have penises etc but who claim they are women.

    When I was growing up, if you didn't want to sleep with a man you sometimes got the retort that you must therefore be a lesbian (rather than a woman with good taste and eyes to see).

    And if you were a lesbian you were often told that sex with whatever slimy male git was trying to get you into bed would "convert" you.

    Now we're getting lesbians accused of being transphobic because they don't want penises thrust into them. It's an old male bullying story - dressed up in different language.
    One gathers the impression that the broader agenda is that (1) of course people can be whatever they want to be, and consequently (2) biological sex has to be dismissed as irrelevant, because it is an obstacle to (1).

    At the end of that road lies the eradication of sexual orientation - because if one is required to accept that trans men are men and trans women are women without any qualification, then, for example, a gay man who dismisses a trans man is a sexual partner is transphobic, unforgiveable and must be cancelled.

    The sort of people who champion this kind of radical equality agenda are invariably the same types who bore on endlessly about diversity, but the two concepts are mutually exclusive. People aren't all functionally identical and shouldn't be treated as such.
    I suspect there are about three people on Earth who think this way, but frustratingly they get all the re-tweets.
    Sadly I suspect there are great deal more than three of them - but yes, they also get a disproportionate amount of attention.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,543
    edited June 2021
    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    The UK right wing press were so desperate to big up Le Pen as they see her as a vehicle to cause problems for the EU if she won the Presidency and her party has just won zero regions and has lost votes from the last elections.

    Some of her supporters aren’t happy as she’s tried to look less racist as a means to appear to a wider electorate and in fact she’s now not hateful enough for them so they stayed at home .

    Heart of stone not to laugh...
    Well, it looks like Le Pen has slipped from 27% to 20%.

    LREM got 7%

    God know what will happen in the next Presidential election.
    I think the conventional right will win.
    I hope so - but not at the cost of the doing what Macron has been doing. Stealing policies from Le Pen....
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,262
    alex_ said:

    Had a few convivial drinks with a former PM this afternoon.

    The rumours about Gove were confirmed.

    So he has to resign?

    Here’s the thing. Hancock had to go for breaking the rules, not for having an affair. But is it possible for any married politician to have had an affair in the last six months without breaking the rules?

    So isn’t this basically media open season on Ministerial sex lives?
    It depends how long it is since the cabinet minister saw their family. You can re-bubble.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,303
    ydoethur said:

    Had a few convivial drinks with a former PM this afternoon.

    The rumours about Gove were confirmed.

    Well, I don’t think Tone ever liked him, but how would he know about his sex life?
    There's an obvious way, but not one I want to think about. And for avoidance of doubt, I'm sure that's not how the former PM knows.

    If that picture's anything to go by, then Dawn Butler's got a great smile. She looks friendly; approachable; genuine; even (to me, at least) cute.

    I think that's a useful trait in a politician. Naturally it's subjective, but to me, Corbyn didn't really have a pleasant smile (when he wasn't scowling), and neither IMO has Diane Abbott. Boris Johnson's face is expressive, but not exactly approachable or genuine. Rishi's smile is pleasant, whilst Pritti's makes her look somewhat mischievous. Rayner's smile is also pleasant and genuine-looking.

    How many politicians can do a 'good' smile, and how much is that worth in votes?

    Early John Major had a lovely smile, and he got even more votes in 1992 than Bozza managed in 2019.

    https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/british-prime-minister-john-major-launches-his-conservative-news-photo/624095606
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,362
    Dawn Butler would be even worse than Starmer. Unless Burnham returns to Parliament they may as well stick with Sir Keir.

    Hancock had to go, he had no authority left, hopefully Javid does a good job in his place
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,884
    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    And yet it is the logical consequence of self-id gender ideology.
    No it isn't. Because they never have to sleep with anyone they don't want to. For whatever reason.
    They don't. But they are being accused of transphobia and attacked. It is one reason why some lesbian groups have set up away from Stonewall and in opposition to it, precisely because they are worried about the consequences of self-id for lesbians.

    This is a real issue for lesbians who feel that the demands of men wishing to transition are taking precedence over the rights of women and lesbians in particular.
    I suspect we are largely in agreement here.

    If a man wants to dress as a woman that is no problem.
    If a man want to live as a woman that is no problem.
    If a man wants to take part in women's sporting events that are restricted to women that is a problem. However he/she wishes to self identify, he/she does not qualify. The weight lifting thing in the Olympics is absurd.
    If a man wants to make use of "safe spaces" for women such as toilets, prisons, changing rooms there is a conflict of rights but in my view that conflict should be resolved in favour of those born with the sex of a women if they are at risk. That is why those spaces exist.

    But no one, ever, is obliged to have sex with anyone else. That is all I was saying.
    It is not quite that simple though is it. You meet someone in the bar you are attracted, you wine her and dine her over a couple of weeks then you find out she isn't a women/man depending on your gender.

    At what point does it become incumbent on someone to mention it before it becomes deception? You whether he or she may be spending money on someone that you wouldn't have done if you had known up front. This sort of thing is going to crop up and I fully expect lawsuits about it.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited June 2021
    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    And yet it is the logical consequence of self-id gender ideology.
    No it isn't. Because they never have to sleep with anyone they don't want to. For whatever reason.
    They don't. But they are being accused of transphobia and attacked. It is one reason why some lesbian groups have set up away from Stonewall and in opposition to it, precisely because they are worried about the consequences of self-id for lesbians.

    This is a real issue for lesbians who feel that the demands of men wishing to transition are taking precedence over the rights of women and lesbians in particular.
    I suspect we are largely in agreement here.

    If a man wants to dress as a woman that is no problem.
    If a man want to live as a woman that is no problem.
    If a man wants to take part in women's sporting events that are restricted to women that is a problem. However he/she wishes to self identify, he/she does not qualify. The weight lifting thing in the Olympics is absurd.
    If a man wants to make use of "safe spaces" for women such as toilets, prisons, changing rooms there is a conflict of rights but in my view that conflict should be resolved in favour of those born with the sex of a women if they are at risk. That is why those spaces exist.

    But no one, ever, is obliged to have sex with anyone else. That is all I was saying.
    The weightlifting thing is a bit more nuanced than simply being about “self-Id” (although I agree in general). The rules require the suppression of testosterone levels to female “limits” for a period of time (1 year?). The complaints is that the advantages a man get in general (through puberty etc) are permanent and significant. So it is attempting to regulate/allow fair competition for something which can’t be regulated away.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,362
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    nico679 said:

    The UK right wing press were so desperate to big up Le Pen as they see her as a vehicle to cause problems for the EU if she won the Presidency and her party has just won zero regions and has lost votes from the last elections.

    Some of her supporters aren’t happy as she’s tried to look less racist as a means to appear to a wider electorate and in fact she’s now not hateful enough for them so they stayed at home .

    Isn’t that because Macron’s been trying hard to out-racist her, and thus made her extreme views seem much more mainstream?
    The president’s LREM movement took just 7% in the race to renew 13 metropolitan councils on Sunday, while Le Pen’s National Rally got 20% of the nationwide vote, exit polls showed.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-27/macron-and-le-pen-both-flop-in-regional-poll-as-french-stay-home?utm_source=google&utm_medium=bd&cmpId=google
    Those are pretty rubbish results for both En Marche and the Front National.

    Correspondingly, they are excellent results for Les Republicans.
    Yes, Les Républicains have been projected to have won most regions and will clearly be hoping to win most seats in the National Assembly in the legislative elections next year. The Socialists also look to have beaten Le Pen's party and En Marche.

    At presidential level though it still looks like a Macron v Le Pen race unless Bertrand ends up centre right candidate and manages to get to the run off in which case he would be a real contender
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,240

    Luxembourg Prime Minister Xavier Bettel, who took part in this week's EU summit, has tested positive for COVID-19. He's suffering from mild symptoms

    "mild symptons" is so utterly meaningless. Could be anything from a slight throat tickle to 'not quite in hospital'...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820

    Posted without comment.

    A man flew into a violent rage during a sexual encounter with a transgender woman.

    Suhel Sood repeatedly punched the victim, slammed her head onto a washing machine, and ordered the victim to clean up her own blood after discovering she had male genitals.

    Now Sood, 34, who was fuelled by booze and cocaine, has been jailed for 16 months.

    Reading Crown Court heard the victim had arrived at a party with her boyfriend before ending up in a room alone with Sood.

    She performed a sex act on him, before Sood switched on the light and shouted 'you're a man' before attacking her and calling her a 'dog', the Mirror reports.

    "This assault arose entirely from Mr Sood discovering that she was transgender and thereafter assaulting her," Oliver Weetch, prosecuting, said.


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/thug-brutally-attacked-beautiful-woman-20883241

    While obviously the assault is a criminal act and should be severely punished, under British law there is a concept of rape by deception

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_deception

    Though this would sound like sexual assault by deception. See case 2 in the Wikipedia link.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,884
    alex_ said:

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    And yet it is the logical consequence of self-id gender ideology.
    No it isn't. Because they never have to sleep with anyone they don't want to. For whatever reason.
    They don't. But they are being accused of transphobia and attacked. It is one reason why some lesbian groups have set up away from Stonewall and in opposition to it, precisely because they are worried about the consequences of self-id for lesbians.

    This is a real issue for lesbians who feel that the demands of men wishing to transition are taking precedence over the rights of women and lesbians in particular.
    I suspect we are largely in agreement here.

    If a man wants to dress as a woman that is no problem.
    If a man want to live as a woman that is no problem.
    If a man wants to take part in women's sporting events that are restricted to women that is a problem. However he/she wishes to self identify, he/she does not qualify. The weight lifting thing in the Olympics is absurd.
    If a man wants to make use of "safe spaces" for women such as toilets, prisons, changing rooms there is a conflict of rights but in my view that conflict should be resolved in favour of those born with the sex of a women if they are at risk. That is why those spaces exist.

    But no one, ever, is obliged to have sex with anyone else. That is all I was saying.
    The weightlifting thing is a bit more nuanced than simply being about “self-Id” (although I agree in general). The rules require the suppression of testosterone levels to female “limits” for a period of time (1 year?). The complaints is that the advantages a man get in general (through puberty etc) are permanent and significant. So it is attempting to regulate/allow fair competition for something which can’t be regulated away.
    The simple answer of course is just introduce a third competition category...male female and trans
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,933
    alex_ said:

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    And yet it is the logical consequence of self-id gender ideology.
    No it isn't. Because they never have to sleep with anyone they don't want to. For whatever reason.
    They don't. But they are being accused of transphobia and attacked. It is one reason why some lesbian groups have set up away from Stonewall and in opposition to it, precisely because they are worried about the consequences of self-id for lesbians.

    This is a real issue for lesbians who feel that the demands of men wishing to transition are taking precedence over the rights of women and lesbians in particular.
    I suspect we are largely in agreement here.

    If a man wants to dress as a woman that is no problem.
    If a man want to live as a woman that is no problem.
    If a man wants to take part in women's sporting events that are restricted to women that is a problem. However he/she wishes to self identify, he/she does not qualify. The weight lifting thing in the Olympics is absurd.
    If a man wants to make use of "safe spaces" for women such as toilets, prisons, changing rooms there is a conflict of rights but in my view that conflict should be resolved in favour of those born with the sex of a women if they are at risk. That is why those spaces exist.

    But no one, ever, is obliged to have sex with anyone else. That is all I was saying.
    The weightlifting thing is a bit more nuanced than simply being about “self-Id” (although I agree in general). The rules require the suppression of testosterone levels to female “limits” for a period of time (1 year?). The complaints is that the advantages a man get in general (through puberty etc) are permanent and significant. So it is attempting to regulate/allow fair competition for something which can’t be regulated away.
    Which is why it is not fair, cannot be made fair and therefore should not be allowed.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,933
    Pagan2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
    And yet it is the logical consequence of self-id gender ideology.
    No it isn't. Because they never have to sleep with anyone they don't want to. For whatever reason.
    They don't. But they are being accused of transphobia and attacked. It is one reason why some lesbian groups have set up away from Stonewall and in opposition to it, precisely because they are worried about the consequences of self-id for lesbians.

    This is a real issue for lesbians who feel that the demands of men wishing to transition are taking precedence over the rights of women and lesbians in particular.
    I suspect we are largely in agreement here.

    If a man wants to dress as a woman that is no problem.
    If a man want to live as a woman that is no problem.
    If a man wants to take part in women's sporting events that are restricted to women that is a problem. However he/she wishes to self identify, he/she does not qualify. The weight lifting thing in the Olympics is absurd.
    If a man wants to make use of "safe spaces" for women such as toilets, prisons, changing rooms there is a conflict of rights but in my view that conflict should be resolved in favour of those born with the sex of a women if they are at risk. That is why those spaces exist.

    But no one, ever, is obliged to have sex with anyone else. That is all I was saying.
    It is not quite that simple though is it. You meet someone in the bar you are attracted, you wine her and dine her over a couple of weeks then you find out she isn't a women/man depending on your gender.

    At what point does it become incumbent on someone to mention it before it becomes deception? You whether he or she may be spending money on someone that you wouldn't have done if you had known up front. This sort of thing is going to crop up and I fully expect lawsuits about it.
    The idea behind that is that this person should be wanting to have sex with you because you are spending money on them, as opposed to enjoying their company. That's wrong, bluntly. There is no quid pro quo outside prostitution.

    Of course not disclosing such an important thing about yourself is likely to destroy the friendship.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,237
    edited June 2021

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cash is on its way out.

    The pandemic has accelerated it.

    More than seven million consumers registered to use phones and smart watches to make payments last year, new figures from Britain's banking industry show.

    Mobile payments - unlike the wider use of contactless cards - are notably more popular among young people with just over 50% of 16 to 34 year olds registered compared to 11% of over-65s.

    The figures from industry body UK Finance showed that overall 17.3 million people, or 32% of the adult population were using them by the end of last year, up by 7.4 million from 2019.

    They also showed that lockdowns had resulted in the overall number of payments made in the UK falling last year for the first time in six years, by 11% to 35.6 billion.

    In 2020, contactless represented 27% of all payments, up from 7% just four years earlier, the figures showed, with 83% of people now using this method - popular across all age groups and regions.

    The increase was encouraged by the upper limit on the value of such transactions being increased from £30 to £45.

    Meanwhile there was a sharp fall in the use of cash, which was used for only 17% of payments in the UK, while there were 13.7 million people who used cash only once a month or not at all.


    https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/millions-more-using-phones-smart-160900245.html

    I'd like to stress my father loves paying for stuff on his watch, so it just isn't the youff that use their smartphones and smartwatches.

    Most ordinary people don't want to see the end of cash. It's another elite project which leaves most people cold.

    This is interesting:

    "£125 BILLION OF EXTRA CASH SAVINGS DURING THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC
    Research from the Bank of England has shown that many people have built up excess cash savings during the pandemic."

    https://chasedevere.co.uk/2021/05/14/125-billion-of-extra-cash-savings-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/
    Could we at least get rid of 1 and 2p coins?
    Would necessitate the rounding of all prices to the nearest five pence though. Problems:

    1. Potentially injurious to the finances of the dirt poor - frankly, copper coinage is worth so little now that you wouldn't have thought it would make much difference even to them, but I'm not that hard up so not in the best position to comment
    2. Another blow to crippled charities already suffering from the effects of the pandemic - because I think that's where most copper coinage ends up going, if it's not stored in jars or simply thrown away as rubbish
    3. Aversion amongst those with a sense of history to the abolition of the penny

    So, an idea not without its complications.
    Not to provoke a four yorkshireman sketch but I've been pretty poor as a child, going hungry, nothing left in the bank account poor (thankfully that level of extremity was rare) and twenty five years on from that moment even if a few left over coppers would have been of use then, they wouldn't now with inflation. I think the hurt of rounding prices to 5p are not likely to be massive.

    I think the charity argument is improbable to say the least. If people are putting their randon small change in, then 5p as the lowe4st would still be able to be put in. If people are so ungenerous or unable to give without copper, then it is not likely sustainable.

    The history argument is a load of old wank, because coins which no longer have any real worth have been abolished before. I could not take anyone putting forth that argument seriously, since they'd in essence be arguing we should keep a worthless unit of currency even if it was worth a thousand times less than now.
This discussion has been closed.