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The Butler did it? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,194

    tlg86 said:

    We’ve got two games to win first, but I think our semi final would be against Denmark.

    Netherlands would be my guess.
    They’re lucky to have 11 on the pitch.

    Oh, VAR, should be a red for denying a clear and obvious goal scoring opportunity.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    BigRich said:

    alex_ said:

    Another reason why some people continue to pay in cash is because some people can't get bank accounts.

    Perhaps the Government should legislate for banks to offer bank accounts for all who want them...

    Still, maybe that's "disgustingly authoritarian" as well.

    Banks, and any other business should be able to say no, we don't what you as a customer,

    e.g.

    IF Barkleys sead they did not what Nike Griffin, or George Galloway as customers, I might be more incline to bank with Barkleys.
    So there you have an impasse. If the Government does not get involved at all, and leaves it entirely to the market, then you can potentially create a situation where a minority section of society cannot access bank accounts and therefore potentially have to rely on cash, but cannot purchase goods or services because businesses have across the board moved away from cash.

    In a society where the vast majority of businesses continue to accept cash this is not an issue. But it is IMO clearly something that the Government has to consider getting involved in should businesses "exercising their right to operate in their own pure financial interests" result ultimately in social and financial exclusion for some through little fault of their own.

    Which was the nub of me taking issue with PT on this. Fine he can call it "authoritarian". But ultimately almost all legislation can on some level be considered 'authoritarian'. My issue was with the use of the word "disgusting". Nothing that attempts to take action to meet a genuine societal problem or need should ever be considered "disgusting". It may be an excessive solution to the potential problem, and there are far better solutions. But it is a debate that can be legitimately had.

    In France, every bakery must, by law, offer a basic bread product at a fixed price. A price which in effect makes it a loss leader. It dates back to the French revolution. Pretty authoritarian. But one can see why the law exists.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Thought the Dutch player was fouled there.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,295
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    I'd say you're the one letting it all hang out.

    The "it" being pig ignorant, supercilious bigotry.
    I'll bite.

    Do you think that a man should be allowed to do this?
    I'm not sure enough to make a blanket statement about it. Ditto the other way, male spaces.
    At risk of sounding rather sexist against my own sex:

    I very much doubt if a biological woman doing what this person did in men’s changing rooms would attract complaints.

    Lots of other sorts of remarks, but not complaints.
    I'd say that's the plain old truth. Women (bio or trans) need more protection from men than men do from women.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,532
    Correct VAR decision.

    Who would have thought an English VAR referee would get that right?
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    Holland red card
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,946
    Clear red.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cash is on its way out.

    The pandemic has accelerated it.

    More than seven million consumers registered to use phones and smart watches to make payments last year, new figures from Britain's banking industry show.

    Mobile payments - unlike the wider use of contactless cards - are notably more popular among young people with just over 50% of 16 to 34 year olds registered compared to 11% of over-65s.

    The figures from industry body UK Finance showed that overall 17.3 million people, or 32% of the adult population were using them by the end of last year, up by 7.4 million from 2019.

    They also showed that lockdowns had resulted in the overall number of payments made in the UK falling last year for the first time in six years, by 11% to 35.6 billion.

    In 2020, contactless represented 27% of all payments, up from 7% just four years earlier, the figures showed, with 83% of people now using this method - popular across all age groups and regions.

    The increase was encouraged by the upper limit on the value of such transactions being increased from £30 to £45.

    Meanwhile there was a sharp fall in the use of cash, which was used for only 17% of payments in the UK, while there were 13.7 million people who used cash only once a month or not at all.


    https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/millions-more-using-phones-smart-160900245.html

    I'd like to stress my father loves paying for stuff on his watch, so it just isn't the youff that use their smartphones and smartwatches.

    Most ordinary people don't want to see the end of cash. It's another elite project which leaves most people cold.

    This is interesting:

    "£125 BILLION OF EXTRA CASH SAVINGS DURING THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC
    Research from the Bank of England has shown that many people have built up excess cash savings during the pandemic."

    https://chasedevere.co.uk/2021/05/14/125-billion-of-extra-cash-savings-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/
    Could we at least get rid of 1 and 2p coins?
    Would necessitate the rounding of all prices to the nearest five pence though. Problems:

    1. Potentially injurious to the finances of the dirt poor - frankly, copper coinage is worth so little now that you wouldn't have thought it would make much difference even to them, but I'm not that hard up so not in the best position to comment
    2. Another blow to crippled charities already suffering from the effects of the pandemic - because I think that's where most copper coinage ends up going, if it's not stored in jars or simply thrown away as rubbish
    3. Aversion amongst those with a sense of history to the abolition of the penny

    So, an idea not without its complications.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    Andy_JS said:

    I think it's time for a law telling businesses that they must accept cash.

    Does anyone agree?

    Well, there are a few problems with that:

    (1) What about on-line businesses? Are you going to require every firm to have a cash handling facility?

    (2) What about existing anti-money laundering regulations?
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Cyclefree said:

    Could Corbyn even vote for her given that he's currently suspended as a Labour MP?

    I had this discussion earlier with someone.

    They reckon Corbyn would have the vote in this election because Theresa May gave Charlie Elphicke a vote in the 2018 vote of confidence despite him being whipless due facing several allegations of sexual assault.
    Didn’t May return the whip in exchange for his vote? SKS couldn’t rely on that bargain with Corbyn
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,194

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cash is on its way out.

    The pandemic has accelerated it.

    More than seven million consumers registered to use phones and smart watches to make payments last year, new figures from Britain's banking industry show.

    Mobile payments - unlike the wider use of contactless cards - are notably more popular among young people with just over 50% of 16 to 34 year olds registered compared to 11% of over-65s.

    The figures from industry body UK Finance showed that overall 17.3 million people, or 32% of the adult population were using them by the end of last year, up by 7.4 million from 2019.

    They also showed that lockdowns had resulted in the overall number of payments made in the UK falling last year for the first time in six years, by 11% to 35.6 billion.

    In 2020, contactless represented 27% of all payments, up from 7% just four years earlier, the figures showed, with 83% of people now using this method - popular across all age groups and regions.

    The increase was encouraged by the upper limit on the value of such transactions being increased from £30 to £45.

    Meanwhile there was a sharp fall in the use of cash, which was used for only 17% of payments in the UK, while there were 13.7 million people who used cash only once a month or not at all.


    https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/millions-more-using-phones-smart-160900245.html

    I'd like to stress my father loves paying for stuff on his watch, so it just isn't the youff that use their smartphones and smartwatches.

    Most ordinary people don't want to see the end of cash. It's another elite project which leaves most people cold.

    This is interesting:

    "£125 BILLION OF EXTRA CASH SAVINGS DURING THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC
    Research from the Bank of England has shown that many people have built up excess cash savings during the pandemic."

    https://chasedevere.co.uk/2021/05/14/125-billion-of-extra-cash-savings-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/
    Could we at least get rid of 1 and 2p coins?
    Would necessitate the rounding of all prices to the nearest five pence though. Problems:

    1. Potentially injurious to the finances of the dirt poor - frankly, copper coinage is worth so little now that you wouldn't have thought it would make much difference even to them, but I'm not that hard up so not in the best position to comment
    2. Another blow to crippled charities already suffering from the effects of the pandemic - because I think that's where most copper coinage ends up going, if it's not stored in jars or simply thrown away as rubbish
    3. Aversion amongst those with a sense of history to the abolition of the penny

    So, an idea not without its complications.
    Better to get rid of 5ps.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Andy_JS said:

    I think it's time for a law telling businesses that they must accept cash.

    Does anyone agree?

    Good luck with that - trying to force small business to take £50 notes would be... interesting.
    Not all cash.

    There was a Moneybox special on it this weekend. Not everyone has easy access to electronic payments
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    alex_ said:

    Another reason why some people continue to pay in cash is because some people can't get bank accounts.

    Perhaps the Government should legislate for banks to offer bank accounts for all who want them...

    Still, maybe that's "disgustingly authoritarian" as well.

    They have.
    There is an interesting disconnect between Europe and the US on this. With the rise of the alt-banks in Europe, the general situation is that anyone can get a bank account - without credit. Revolut, for example give free setup - and then charge a small amount for issuing an actual card...

    When one of these companies wanted to setup in the US, they were hammered at politically. From the left. A bit puzzled, they talked to some political consultants. Who pointed out that, in the US, banking without lots of charges sounded incredible. And that they would be treading on the toes of lots of local activists with credit unions etc.
    Yeah, the concept of free banking seems alien to so many countries.

    FWIW - I think free banking as we know it in the UK will end in the future, but with some benefits to offset that.
    Benefits? Some shitty loyalty card scheme that's of no practical use for anything, I should imagine. To add insult to the injury of their 0.01% interest rates.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,504

    alex_ said:

    Another reason why some people continue to pay in cash is because some people can't get bank accounts.

    Perhaps the Government should legislate for banks to offer bank accounts for all who want them...

    Still, maybe that's "disgustingly authoritarian" as well.

    They have.
    There is an interesting disconnect between Europe and the US on this. With the rise of the alt-banks in Europe, the general situation is that anyone can get a bank account - without credit. Revolut, for example give free setup - and then charge a small amount for issuing an actual card...

    When one of these companies wanted to setup in the US, they were hammered at politically. From the left. A bit puzzled, they talked to some political consultants. Who pointed out that, in the US, banking without lots of charges sounded incredible. And that they would be treading on the toes of lots of local activists with credit unions etc.
    I do a fair amount of translation for paysafecard, whose business model is that people without bank accounts or credit cards can buy a prepaid card for cash in a local corner shop and use it as a pseudo-credit card - they also appeal to people who are nervous of giving babnk details online. I'd have thought it was a model without a future, but they have hundreds of thousands of shops signed up and there seems to be an appetite for it in countries where it's harder to get a credit card - eastern Europe and South America especially.

    Mind you, I got turned down for a savings account with Virgin, inexplicably - I was trying to stay under the guaranteed savings limit per bank so thought I'd open another savings account. Why it should be a credit risk to accept someone's money I still can't work out. I put the money in premium bonds instead, whose average 1% interest is quite nice these days.
    At the next PB drinks, I will tell you why I think that you working with Paysafe is a LOL.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,946
    edited June 2021
    Andrew Marr's anecdotal experience of Covid post double vaccination confirms it's basically a cold for your immune system at that point. Now some people get heavier normal colds than others, but we don't stop anything for heavy cold sufferers.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,504
    edited June 2021

    alex_ said:

    Another reason why some people continue to pay in cash is because some people can't get bank accounts.

    Perhaps the Government should legislate for banks to offer bank accounts for all who want them...

    Still, maybe that's "disgustingly authoritarian" as well.

    They have.
    There is an interesting disconnect between Europe and the US on this. With the rise of the alt-banks in Europe, the general situation is that anyone can get a bank account - without credit. Revolut, for example give free setup - and then charge a small amount for issuing an actual card...

    When one of these companies wanted to setup in the US, they were hammered at politically. From the left. A bit puzzled, they talked to some political consultants. Who pointed out that, in the US, banking without lots of charges sounded incredible. And that they would be treading on the toes of lots of local activists with credit unions etc.
    Yeah, the concept of free banking seems alien to so many countries.

    FWIW - I think free banking as we know it in the UK will end in the future, but with some benefits to offset that.
    Actually, it will expand. The alt-banks are built around making a much smaller profit per customer, using streamlined processes and no branches. It will be quite difficult to persuade the next generation to not use them....

    The end of cash will be the retreat of the traditional high street banks - once they close their branches, the ATMs are next....
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,532

    alex_ said:

    Another reason why some people continue to pay in cash is because some people can't get bank accounts.

    Perhaps the Government should legislate for banks to offer bank accounts for all who want them...

    Still, maybe that's "disgustingly authoritarian" as well.

    They have.
    There is an interesting disconnect between Europe and the US on this. With the rise of the alt-banks in Europe, the general situation is that anyone can get a bank account - without credit. Revolut, for example give free setup - and then charge a small amount for issuing an actual card...

    When one of these companies wanted to setup in the US, they were hammered at politically. From the left. A bit puzzled, they talked to some political consultants. Who pointed out that, in the US, banking without lots of charges sounded incredible. And that they would be treading on the toes of lots of local activists with credit unions etc.
    Yeah, the concept of free banking seems alien to so many countries.

    FWIW - I think free banking as we know it in the UK will end in the future, but with some benefits to offset that.
    Benefits? Some shitty loyalty card scheme that's of no practical use for anything, I should imagine. To add insult to the injury of their 0.01% interest rates.
    For example LBG and Barclays are offering cash backs of up to 10% with certain retailers.

    I know one banking group is thinking offering free AA membership for all current account members in exchange for a small fee a month which would be cheaper than getting the AA membership.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,347
    Charles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think it's time for a law telling businesses that they must accept cash.

    Does anyone agree?

    Good luck with that - trying to force small business to take £50 notes would be... interesting.
    Not all cash.

    There was a Moneybox special on it this weekend. Not everyone has easy access to electronic payments
    I was followed by a man who came out of a hostel into Cafe Nero on Thursday morning. He asked for a coffee but was told that they would only accept the electronic payment and he clearly couldn't do that. He had the money but in coins. I bought his coffee. No wonder I was rushed into hospital that night. No good deed etc.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    Another reason why some people continue to pay in cash is because some people can't get bank accounts.

    Perhaps the Government should legislate for banks to offer bank accounts for all who want them...

    Still, maybe that's "disgustingly authoritarian" as well.

    They have.
    There is an interesting disconnect between Europe and the US on this. With the rise of the alt-banks in Europe, the general situation is that anyone can get a bank account - without credit. Revolut, for example give free setup - and then charge a small amount for issuing an actual card...

    When one of these companies wanted to setup in the US, they were hammered at politically. From the left. A bit puzzled, they talked to some political consultants. Who pointed out that, in the US, banking without lots of charges sounded incredible. And that they would be treading on the toes of lots of local activists with credit unions etc.
    Yeah, the concept of free banking seems alien to so many countries.

    FWIW - I think free banking as we know it in the UK will end in the future, but with some benefits to offset that.
    Benefits? Some shitty loyalty card scheme that's of no practical use for anything, I should imagine. To add insult to the injury of their 0.01% interest rates.
    For example LBG and Barclays are offering cash backs of up to 10% with certain retailers.

    I know one banking group is thinking offering free AA membership for all current account members in exchange for a small fee a month which would be cheaper than getting the AA membership.
    They don't do these things out of the goodness of their heart...
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    edited June 2021
    I think this is heading to penalties
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,504
    Charles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think it's time for a law telling businesses that they must accept cash.

    Does anyone agree?

    Good luck with that - trying to force small business to take £50 notes would be... interesting.
    Not all cash.

    There was a Moneybox special on it this weekend. Not everyone has easy access to electronic payments
    Oh yes - but it one of those things where the dynamics of the market will simply push the holdouts into a smaller and smaller corner.

    Though I did do a double take the first time I saw a chap begging in the London Underground, with a card payment device....
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,532
    Pulpstar said:

    Andrew Marr's anecdotal experience of Covid post double vaccination confirms it's basically a cold for your immune system at that point. Now some people get heavier normal colds than others, but we don't stop anything for heavy cold sufferers.

    Those of us with hayfever are going to death glares when we sneeze in public for the next few years?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,295

    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    I think it's unfair to say that this is a "male" minority. There are plenty of women involved in the "anti-bigotry" movement.

    The interesting thing about this particular debate is that i think it is one which men, in general, are often very happy to stay out of. Perhaps that is mistaken, but they are certainly happy to let women make the running on it...
    Men try to get involved and get called "pig ignorant, supercilious bigots".

    It's happened to me.
    There are real issues to be resolved if it's made easier to change gender. Especially around M to F.

    There is also no end of scaremongering and prejudice masquerading as "commonsense" and cheap-as-chips "humour".

    I try my best to separate one from the other and respond accordingly.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,532
    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Another reason why some people continue to pay in cash is because some people can't get bank accounts.

    Perhaps the Government should legislate for banks to offer bank accounts for all who want them...

    Still, maybe that's "disgustingly authoritarian" as well.

    They have.
    There is an interesting disconnect between Europe and the US on this. With the rise of the alt-banks in Europe, the general situation is that anyone can get a bank account - without credit. Revolut, for example give free setup - and then charge a small amount for issuing an actual card...

    When one of these companies wanted to setup in the US, they were hammered at politically. From the left. A bit puzzled, they talked to some political consultants. Who pointed out that, in the US, banking without lots of charges sounded incredible. And that they would be treading on the toes of lots of local activists with credit unions etc.
    Yeah, the concept of free banking seems alien to so many countries.

    FWIW - I think free banking as we know it in the UK will end in the future, but with some benefits to offset that.
    Benefits? Some shitty loyalty card scheme that's of no practical use for anything, I should imagine. To add insult to the injury of their 0.01% interest rates.
    For example LBG and Barclays are offering cash backs of up to 10% with certain retailers.

    I know one banking group is thinking offering free AA membership for all current account members in exchange for a small fee a month which would be cheaper than getting the AA membership.
    They don't do these things out of the goodness of their heart...
    The logic, as I understand it, will be it will be standard AA cover, and the profit will be for AA when people upgrade to the higher levels of cover.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,347
    Penalties between these 2 are going to be hilarious. First to score one wins?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,946
    Great defending by Dumfries.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,532
    edited June 2021
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Could Corbyn even vote for her given that he's currently suspended as a Labour MP?

    I had this discussion earlier with someone.

    They reckon Corbyn would have the vote in this election because Theresa May gave Charlie Elphicke a vote in the 2018 vote of confidence despite him being whipless due facing several allegations of sexual assault.
    Didn’t May return the whip in exchange for his vote? SKS couldn’t rely on that bargain with Corbyn
    Nah, him voting for her or not voting for her wouldn't have impacted the result.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    I'd say you're the one letting it all hang out.

    The "it" being pig ignorant, supercilious bigotry.
    I'll bite.

    Do you think that a man should be allowed to do this?
    I think you are approaching this from the wrong end (ahem, as it were)

    I would say that women have a reasonable right to privacy. But there should also be unisex facilities (with individual cubicles) where both sexes plus people in transition can go
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    I'd say you're the one letting it all hang out.

    The "it" being pig ignorant, supercilious bigotry.
    I'll bite.

    Do you think that a man should be allowed to do this?
    I'm not sure enough to make a blanket statement about it. Ditto the other way, male spaces.
    At risk of sounding rather sexist against my own sex:

    I very much doubt if a biological woman doing what this person did in men’s changing rooms would attract complaints.

    Lots of other sorts of remarks, but not complaints.
    The polling evidence is that more men than women oppose trans rights:



    Increasingly, it is recognised that Trans Men are nearly as frequent as Trans Women, particularly at younger age groups.
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    DavidL said:

    Penalties between these 2 are going to be hilarious. First to score one wins?

    never really watched VAR in action in the premier league as no Sky or BT but I can see why many say it is ruining the game . This is turgid caused by 3 minute long stoppages for repeated VAR .I am not even sure the correct decision re the red card was then made or what caused the ref to change his mind given he clearly saw the original to give a yellow card
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    For example would you let someone pay a car dealership £16,000 in £50 notes for a car they are purchasing?

    There's so many issues with that

    1) Dealerships wouldn't like having that much cash on site, plus there'd be additional costs in hiring someone like G4S to take the the cash to the banks

    2) There's AML regs that would probably be violated with such a large cash transaction (especially on a regular basis)

    3) What happens if the money turns out be fake notes, not everyone can afford the machines that check

    In Germany you can pay up to €50k in cash for a car. It’s part of the money laundering system with Marbella
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,877

    Pulpstar said:

    Andrew Marr's anecdotal experience of Covid post double vaccination confirms it's basically a cold for your immune system at that point. Now some people get heavier normal colds than others, but we don't stop anything for heavy cold sufferers.

    Those of us with hayfever are going to death glares when we sneeze in public for the next few years?
    Already happening, my friend. I cough a little as well and that is a definite no-no.

    Sneezing inside a mask isn't a lot of fun.

    Once again, the level of public health awareness and public health information in this country is embarrassing.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    Czech!!!!

    1-0
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,532
    Not going to penalties.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,779
    Wow. Czech Republic go ahead against Netherlands.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,946

    Pulpstar said:

    Andrew Marr's anecdotal experience of Covid post double vaccination confirms it's basically a cold for your immune system at that point. Now some people get heavier normal colds than others, but we don't stop anything for heavy cold sufferers.

    Those of us with hayfever are going to death glares when we sneeze in public for the next few years?
    I wonder if everyone was urged to get tested for rhinoviruses, coronaviruses (Outside SARS-Cov-2), adenoviruses, rsv what the daily figures would look like. You'd have deaths within 28 days amongst the very elderly and/or infirm too of course.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,194

    DavidL said:

    Penalties between these 2 are going to be hilarious. First to score one wins?

    never really watched VAR in action in the premier league as no Sky or BT but I can see why many say it is ruining the game . This is turgid caused by 3 minute long stoppages for repeated VAR .I am not even sure the correct decision re the red card was then made or what caused the ref to change his mind given he clearly saw the original to give a yellow card
    To be honest, that was one of the better reviews. Clear red that I called in real time, typical ref bottling the big decision.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,532
    Charles said:

    For example would you let someone pay a car dealership £16,000 in £50 notes for a car they are purchasing?

    There's so many issues with that

    1) Dealerships wouldn't like having that much cash on site, plus there'd be additional costs in hiring someone like G4S to take the the cash to the banks

    2) There's AML regs that would probably be violated with such a large cash transaction (especially on a regular basis)

    3) What happens if the money turns out be fake notes, not everyone can afford the machines that check

    In Germany you can pay up to €50k in cash for a car. It’s part of the money laundering system with Marbella
    We have higher standards than the Germans.

    *Cough*Wirecard*Cough*
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,295
    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    I think it's unfair to say that this is a "male" minority. There are plenty of women involved in the "anti-bigotry" movement.

    The interesting thing about this particular debate is that i think it is one which men, in general, are often very happy to stay out of. Perhaps that is mistaken, but they are certainly happy to let women make the running on it...
    Not sure your last para is right. My experience of this debate is that men are very prominent in it, especially on the anti-trans side. In general, women are more supportive. Or so the surveys say.
  • Options
    borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    kinabalu said:

    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    I think it's unfair to say that this is a "male" minority. There are plenty of women involved in the "anti-bigotry" movement.

    The interesting thing about this particular debate is that i think it is one which men, in general, are often very happy to stay out of. Perhaps that is mistaken, but they are certainly happy to let women make the running on it...
    Men try to get involved and get called "pig ignorant, supercilious bigots".

    It's happened to me.
    There are real issues to be resolved if it's made easier to change gender. Especially around M to F.

    There is also no end of scaremongering and prejudice masquerading as "commonsense" and cheap-as-chips "humour".

    I try my best to separate one from the other and respond accordingly.
    I posted a tweet from the US about a "woman" with a penis flaunting it in front of young girls in a women only area, with the comment that I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK.

    And from that, you "detected" pig-ignorant, supercilious bigotry.

    You DON'T have a working detector.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,877
    Anecdotal incident yesterday.

    Mrs Stodge and I are in Barking for lunch and I am dispatched to the paper shop to purchase the Mail for her and the Racing Post for serious weekend reading.

    There's a man who wants to buy the Mail (soft, strong and highly absorbing I'm told) but wants to pay by card - the shopkeeper refuses to serve him claiming a £5 minimum for card purchases.

    Is there a minimum level where it becomes uneconomic or impractical for card purchases?
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    alex_ said:

    BigRich said:

    alex_ said:

    Another reason why some people continue to pay in cash is because some people can't get bank accounts.

    Perhaps the Government should legislate for banks to offer bank accounts for all who want them...

    Still, maybe that's "disgustingly authoritarian" as well.

    Banks, and any other business should be able to say no, we don't what you as a customer,

    e.g.

    IF Barkleys sead they did not what Nike Griffin, or George Galloway as customers, I might be more incline to bank with Barkleys.
    So there you have an impasse. If the Government does not get involved at all, and leaves it entirely to the market, then you can potentially create a situation where a minority section of society cannot access bank accounts and therefore potentially have to rely on cash, but cannot purchase goods or services because businesses have across the board moved away from cash.

    In a society where the vast majority of businesses continue to accept cash this is not an issue. But it is IMO clearly something that the Government has to consider getting involved in should businesses "exercising their right to operate in their own pure financial interests" result ultimately in social and financial exclusion for some through little fault of their own.

    Which was the nub of me taking issue with PT on this. Fine he can call it "authoritarian". But ultimately almost all legislation can on some level be considered 'authoritarian'. My issue was with the use of the word "disgusting". Nothing that attempts to take action to meet a genuine societal problem or need should ever be considered "disgusting". It may be an excessive solution to the potential problem, and there are far better solutions. But it is a debate that can be legitimately had.

    In France, every bakery must, by law, offer a basic bread product at a fixed price. A price which in effect makes it a loss leader. It dates back to the French revolution. Pretty authoritarian. But one can see why the law exists.
    As so often, you are requiring a low for a problem that does not exit, the overwhelming majorly of businesses accept cash and will continue until, there is no demand, and banks will offer bank accounts to people unless there is a real reason why not, because terming way business is not nonmail good for business.

    And Yes I agree all regulation to a greater or lesser extent is authoritarian, and therefor involves taking away the freedom of others, that's why I'm an Anarchist, a very gradualist anarchist, and hopefully and resound and rational one.

    If you force backers to sell products at a loss, some will find ways around it, as they did in Zimbabwe when they tried, and if they cant, then in poor areas there will be less or no backers, forcing there potential customers to travel to buy bred, while not the end of the would, that may not be of net benefit to the customers, even if it makes the people who support the law fell better.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    alex_ said:

    Another reason why some people continue to pay in cash is because some people can't get bank accounts.

    Perhaps the Government should legislate for banks to offer bank accounts for all who want them...

    Still, maybe that's "disgustingly authoritarian" as well.

    They have.
    There is an interesting disconnect between Europe and the US on this. With the rise of the alt-banks in Europe, the general situation is that anyone can get a bank account - without credit. Revolut, for example give free setup - and then charge a small amount for issuing an actual card...

    When one of these companies wanted to setup in the US, they were hammered at politically. From the left. A bit puzzled, they talked to some political consultants. Who pointed out that, in the US, banking without lots of charges sounded incredible. And that they would be treading on the toes of lots of local activists with credit unions etc.
    Yeah, the concept of free banking seems alien to so many countries.

    FWIW - I think free banking as we know it in the UK will end in the future, but with some benefits to offset that.
    Benefits? Some shitty loyalty card scheme that's of no practical use for anything, I should imagine. To add insult to the injury of their 0.01% interest rates.
    For example LBG and Barclays are offering cash backs of up to 10% with certain retailers.

    I know one banking group is thinking offering free AA membership for all current account members in exchange for a small fee a month which would be cheaper than getting the AA membership.
    Hmmm... I suppose those benefits are potentially useful, provided that the retailers in question are both ones that you'd actually want to buy things from, and do so more than once every couple of years. And needless to say AA membership is completely useless to non-motorists.

    Still sounds like baubles to disguise the fact that they want to soak you for service charges and pay effective zero interest.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,532
    edited June 2021
    stodge said:

    Anecdotal incident yesterday.

    Mrs Stodge and I are in Barking for lunch and I am dispatched to the paper shop to purchase the Mail for her and the Racing Post for serious weekend reading.

    There's a man who wants to buy the Mail (soft, strong and highly absorbing I'm told) but wants to pay by card - the shopkeeper refuses to serve him claiming a £5 minimum for card purchases.

    Is there a minimum level where it becomes uneconomic or impractical for card purchases?

    Yes, as a general rule the card processing firm charge something like 35p per debit card transaction and 1.5%- 2.5% of the transaction value for credit cards.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Cash is on its way out.

    The pandemic has accelerated it.

    More than seven million consumers registered to use phones and smart watches to make payments last year, new figures from Britain's banking industry show.

    Mobile payments - unlike the wider use of contactless cards - are notably more popular among young people with just over 50% of 16 to 34 year olds registered compared to 11% of over-65s.

    The figures from industry body UK Finance showed that overall 17.3 million people, or 32% of the adult population were using them by the end of last year, up by 7.4 million from 2019.

    They also showed that lockdowns had resulted in the overall number of payments made in the UK falling last year for the first time in six years, by 11% to 35.6 billion.

    In 2020, contactless represented 27% of all payments, up from 7% just four years earlier, the figures showed, with 83% of people now using this method - popular across all age groups and regions.

    The increase was encouraged by the upper limit on the value of such transactions being increased from £30 to £45.

    Meanwhile there was a sharp fall in the use of cash, which was used for only 17% of payments in the UK, while there were 13.7 million people who used cash only once a month or not at all.


    https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/millions-more-using-phones-smart-160900245.html

    I'd like to stress my father loves paying for stuff on his watch, so it just isn't the youff that use their smartphones and smartwatches.

    My very elderly Aunt thinks it very cool and space age that she can wave her mobile in the vague vicinity of the machine to pay.

    One thing that few people think of - small shops find cash a real problem. Too small to get deliveries and drops off with real security.....
    Same with my mother and her friends.

    One of the other advantages of paying for stuff on credit cards, as opposed to cash, is the Section 75 protection you get for purchases over £100.

    Also I think I've earn about £800 a year in Nectar points thanks to my Sainsbury's credit card.
    Push off your risk onto the poor innocent bankers why don’t you
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Cash is on its way out.

    The pandemic has accelerated it.

    More than seven million consumers registered to use phones and smart watches to make payments last year, new figures from Britain's banking industry show.

    Mobile payments - unlike the wider use of contactless cards - are notably more popular among young people with just over 50% of 16 to 34 year olds registered compared to 11% of over-65s.

    The figures from industry body UK Finance showed that overall 17.3 million people, or 32% of the adult population were using them by the end of last year, up by 7.4 million from 2019.

    They also showed that lockdowns had resulted in the overall number of payments made in the UK falling last year for the first time in six years, by 11% to 35.6 billion.

    In 2020, contactless represented 27% of all payments, up from 7% just four years earlier, the figures showed, with 83% of people now using this method - popular across all age groups and regions.

    The increase was encouraged by the upper limit on the value of such transactions being increased from £30 to £45.

    Meanwhile there was a sharp fall in the use of cash, which was used for only 17% of payments in the UK, while there were 13.7 million people who used cash only once a month or not at all.


    https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/millions-more-using-phones-smart-160900245.html

    I'd like to stress my father loves paying for stuff on his watch, so it just isn't the youff that use their smartphones and smartwatches.

    My very elderly Aunt thinks it very cool and space age that she can wave her mobile in the vague vicinity of the machine to pay.

    One thing that few people think of - small shops find cash a real problem. Too small to get deliveries and drops off with real security.....
    Same with my mother and her friends.

    One of the other advantages of paying for stuff on credit cards, as opposed to cash, is the Section 75 protection you get for purchases over £100.

    Also I think I've earn about £800 a year in Nectar points thanks to my Sainsbury's credit card.
    Are you declaring the income stream you get from selling data?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,532
    Charles said:

    Cash is on its way out.

    The pandemic has accelerated it.

    More than seven million consumers registered to use phones and smart watches to make payments last year, new figures from Britain's banking industry show.

    Mobile payments - unlike the wider use of contactless cards - are notably more popular among young people with just over 50% of 16 to 34 year olds registered compared to 11% of over-65s.

    The figures from industry body UK Finance showed that overall 17.3 million people, or 32% of the adult population were using them by the end of last year, up by 7.4 million from 2019.

    They also showed that lockdowns had resulted in the overall number of payments made in the UK falling last year for the first time in six years, by 11% to 35.6 billion.

    In 2020, contactless represented 27% of all payments, up from 7% just four years earlier, the figures showed, with 83% of people now using this method - popular across all age groups and regions.

    The increase was encouraged by the upper limit on the value of such transactions being increased from £30 to £45.

    Meanwhile there was a sharp fall in the use of cash, which was used for only 17% of payments in the UK, while there were 13.7 million people who used cash only once a month or not at all.


    https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/millions-more-using-phones-smart-160900245.html

    I'd like to stress my father loves paying for stuff on his watch, so it just isn't the youff that use their smartphones and smartwatches.

    My very elderly Aunt thinks it very cool and space age that she can wave her mobile in the vague vicinity of the machine to pay.

    One thing that few people think of - small shops find cash a real problem. Too small to get deliveries and drops off with real security.....
    Same with my mother and her friends.

    One of the other advantages of paying for stuff on credit cards, as opposed to cash, is the Section 75 protection you get for purchases over £100.

    Also I think I've earn about £800 a year in Nectar points thanks to my Sainsbury's credit card.
    Push off your risk onto the poor innocent bankers why don’t you
    Absolutely.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    edited June 2021
    Holland out to 55/1 on the outright market. Czech now 50/1.

    Denmark in to 11/1, England and Germany in a touch also.
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,389

    stodge said:

    Anecdotal incident yesterday.

    Mrs Stodge and I are in Barking for lunch and I am dispatched to the paper shop to purchase the Mail for her and the Racing Post for serious weekend reading.

    There's a man who wants to buy the Mail (soft, strong and highly absorbing I'm told) but wants to pay by card - the shopkeeper refuses to serve him claiming a £5 minimum for card purchases.

    Is there a minimum level where it becomes uneconomic or impractical for card purchases?

    Yes, as a general rule the card processing firm charge something like 35p per debit card transaction and 1.5%- 2.5% of the transaction value for credit cards.
    I think the debit card fee is possibly not as much. Our corner shop allows tap purchases on £1 up.

  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892
    It's difficult to know what Labour's brand looks like at the moment. I don't recognise their spokespeople or find them impressive. Even though Corbyn was a dreadful leader at least he was visible and had an amiable sidekick in John McDonnel.

    Whatever happens in B+S I'm struggling to see how Labour find a USP that gets them noticed. Nick P wrote a heart warming post on the last thread about Jess Phillips popularity as a speaker at Labour events.

    She might not have the intellectual heft of past leaders but neither has Johnson and she's funnier more attractive and all round a more complete human being .

    Unfortunately for SKS I fear he's timed out on the old 'Head and shoulder's' strapline 'You don't get a second chance to make a first impression'
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,532

    stodge said:

    Anecdotal incident yesterday.

    Mrs Stodge and I are in Barking for lunch and I am dispatched to the paper shop to purchase the Mail for her and the Racing Post for serious weekend reading.

    There's a man who wants to buy the Mail (soft, strong and highly absorbing I'm told) but wants to pay by card - the shopkeeper refuses to serve him claiming a £5 minimum for card purchases.

    Is there a minimum level where it becomes uneconomic or impractical for card purchases?

    Yes, as a general rule the card processing firm charge something like 35p per debit card transaction and 1.5%- 2.5% of the transaction value for credit cards.
    I think the debit card fee is possibly not as much. Our corner shop allows tap purchases on £1 up.

    I know it has become a competitive market.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,651
    Butler would probably read out a denial statement whilst wearing a "Butler for Leader" rosette.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,347

    DavidL said:

    Penalties between these 2 are going to be hilarious. First to score one wins?

    never really watched VAR in action in the premier league as no Sky or BT but I can see why many say it is ruining the game . This is turgid caused by 3 minute long stoppages for repeated VAR .I am not even sure the correct decision re the red card was then made or what caused the ref to change his mind given he clearly saw the original to give a yellow card
    Yes, it takes too long. That's ok in cricket but not in football. It needs to be speeded up. And the nonsense of being offside because your elbow was sticking out has to go.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,295
    edited June 2021
    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    So have you gone from one extreme to the other?

    ie, you used to believe that gender should be a matter of self-Id, but you now believe it should be forever fixed at birth according to biology?
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    BigRich said:

    alex_ said:

    BigRich said:

    alex_ said:

    Another reason why some people continue to pay in cash is because some people can't get bank accounts.

    Perhaps the Government should legislate for banks to offer bank accounts for all who want them...

    Still, maybe that's "disgustingly authoritarian" as well.

    Banks, and any other business should be able to say no, we don't what you as a customer,

    e.g.

    IF Barkleys sead they did not what Nike Griffin, or George Galloway as customers, I might be more incline to bank with Barkleys.
    So there you have an impasse. If the Government does not get involved at all, and leaves it entirely to the market, then you can potentially create a situation where a minority section of society cannot access bank accounts and therefore potentially have to rely on cash, but cannot purchase goods or services because businesses have across the board moved away from cash.

    In a society where the vast majority of businesses continue to accept cash this is not an issue. But it is IMO clearly something that the Government has to consider getting involved in should businesses "exercising their right to operate in their own pure financial interests" result ultimately in social and financial exclusion for some through little fault of their own.

    Which was the nub of me taking issue with PT on this. Fine he can call it "authoritarian". But ultimately almost all legislation can on some level be considered 'authoritarian'. My issue was with the use of the word "disgusting". Nothing that attempts to take action to meet a genuine societal problem or need should ever be considered "disgusting". It may be an excessive solution to the potential problem, and there are far better solutions. But it is a debate that can be legitimately had.

    In France, every bakery must, by law, offer a basic bread product at a fixed price. A price which in effect makes it a loss leader. It dates back to the French revolution. Pretty authoritarian. But one can see why the law exists.
    As so often, you are requiring a low for a problem that does not exit, the overwhelming majorly of businesses accept cash and will continue until, there is no demand, and banks will offer bank accounts to people unless there is a real reason why not, because terming way business is not nonmail good for business.

    And Yes I agree all regulation to a greater or lesser extent is authoritarian, and therefor involves taking away the freedom of others, that's why I'm an Anarchist, a very gradualist anarchist, and hopefully and resound and rational one.

    If you force backers to sell products at a loss, some will find ways around it, as they did in Zimbabwe when they tried, and if they cant, then in poor areas there will be less or no backers, forcing there potential customers to travel to buy bred, while not the end of the would, that may not be of net benefit to the customers, even if it makes the people who support the law fell better.
    I wasn't advocating it. And i said that i don't think we are anywhere near a situation where the refusal of businesses to take cash is a significant issue (notwithstanding some of the posts above).

    And France DOES force bakers to sell their basic product at an effective loss. I don't think they generally try to circumvent it and I don't think that it leads (in this specific instance) to the outcome you give. Of course in general it is a completely unconscionable idea. But i suspect it lingers in France with widespread support. Because it is a law which almost represents something fundamental about founding of the modern French state.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,779
    2-0 Czech Rep.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    edited June 2021
    2-0 czech
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,532
    Czechia!

    Cheerio Netherlands.
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,016
    BigRich said:

    alex_ said:

    BigRich said:

    alex_ said:

    Another reason why some people continue to pay in cash is because some people can't get bank accounts.

    Perhaps the Government should legislate for banks to offer bank accounts for all who want them...

    Still, maybe that's "disgustingly authoritarian" as well.

    Banks, and any other business should be able to say no, we don't what you as a customer,

    e.g.

    IF Barkleys sead they did not what Nike Griffin, or George Galloway as customers, I might be more incline to bank with Barkleys.
    So there you have an impasse. If the Government does not get involved at all, and leaves it entirely to the market, then you can potentially create a situation where a minority section of society cannot access bank accounts and therefore potentially have to rely on cash, but cannot purchase goods or services because businesses have across the board moved away from cash.

    In a society where the vast majority of businesses continue to accept cash this is not an issue. But it is IMO clearly something that the Government has to consider getting involved in should businesses "exercising their right to operate in their own pure financial interests" result ultimately in social and financial exclusion for some through little fault of their own.

    Which was the nub of me taking issue with PT on this. Fine he can call it "authoritarian". But ultimately almost all legislation can on some level be considered 'authoritarian'. My issue was with the use of the word "disgusting". Nothing that attempts to take action to meet a genuine societal problem or need should ever be considered "disgusting". It may be an excessive solution to the potential problem, and there are far better solutions. But it is a debate that can be legitimately had.

    In France, every bakery must, by law, offer a basic bread product at a fixed price. A price which in effect makes it a loss leader. It dates back to the French revolution. Pretty authoritarian. But one can see why the law exists.
    As so often, you are requiring a low for a problem that does not exit, the overwhelming majorly of businesses accept cash and will continue until, there is no demand, and banks will offer bank accounts to people unless there is a real reason why not, because terming way business is not nonmail good for business.

    And Yes I agree all regulation to a greater or lesser extent is authoritarian, and therefor involves taking away the freedom of others, that's why I'm an Anarchist, a very gradualist anarchist, and hopefully and resound and rational one.

    If you force backers to sell products at a loss, some will find ways around it, as they did in Zimbabwe when they tried, and if they cant, then in poor areas there will be less or no backers, forcing there potential customers to travel to buy bred, while not the end of the would, that may not be of net benefit to the customers, even if it makes the people who support the law fell better.
    I thought there was such a thing as a "simple bank account" which banks are obliged to offer. They have zero credit so are safe. Banks of course don't market them.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,952
    McCoist is a brilliant co comm
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,343
    Surely no way back for the Dutch now
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    stodge said:

    Anecdotal incident yesterday.

    Mrs Stodge and I are in Barking for lunch and I am dispatched to the paper shop to purchase the Mail for her and the Racing Post for serious weekend reading.

    There's a man who wants to buy the Mail (soft, strong and highly absorbing I'm told) but wants to pay by card - the shopkeeper refuses to serve him claiming a £5 minimum for card purchases.

    Is there a minimum level where it becomes uneconomic or impractical for card purchases?

    It depends upon the company and the contract they have with their card handler.

    In the past it used to be quite typical to have a hefty authorisation charge as well as a percentage fee, but nowadays costs are increasingly a lot lower than they used to be which is one reason its more attractive now for many businesses to prefer cards.

    Its possible nowadays to have card handling with authorisation charges as low as a penny per transaction, which means that there's little reason to have minimum transaction fees if so.

    Some companies even have minimum transaction fees because it used to be uneconomic without one and now having a minimum provides an opportunity to 'upsell' so the minimum has been left in place.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    England’s side of the draw just got better.

    If we beat Germany, we’re in the final, hopefully!
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    I may have been wrong about us facing the Dutch.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,532
    isam said:

    McCoist is a brilliant co comm

    He is.

    Love it when he is paired with Jon Champion or Clive Tyldesley.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,779

    Surely no way back for the Dutch now

    This is going to be the first upset in the tournament so far.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,651
    edited June 2021
    Charles said:

    Cash is on its way out.

    The pandemic has accelerated it.

    More than seven million consumers registered to use phones and smart watches to make payments last year, new figures from Britain's banking industry show.

    Mobile payments - unlike the wider use of contactless cards - are notably more popular among young people with just over 50% of 16 to 34 year olds registered compared to 11% of over-65s.

    The figures from industry body UK Finance showed that overall 17.3 million people, or 32% of the adult population were using them by the end of last year, up by 7.4 million from 2019.

    They also showed that lockdowns had resulted in the overall number of payments made in the UK falling last year for the first time in six years, by 11% to 35.6 billion.

    In 2020, contactless represented 27% of all payments, up from 7% just four years earlier, the figures showed, with 83% of people now using this method - popular across all age groups and regions.

    The increase was encouraged by the upper limit on the value of such transactions being increased from £30 to £45.

    Meanwhile there was a sharp fall in the use of cash, which was used for only 17% of payments in the UK, while there were 13.7 million people who used cash only once a month or not at all.


    https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/millions-more-using-phones-smart-160900245.html

    I'd like to stress my father loves paying for stuff on his watch, so it just isn't the youff that use their smartphones and smartwatches.

    My very elderly Aunt thinks it very cool and space age that she can wave her mobile in the vague vicinity of the machine to pay.

    One thing that few people think of - small shops find cash a real problem. Too small to get deliveries and drops off with real security.....
    Same with my mother and her friends.

    One of the other advantages of paying for stuff on credit cards, as opposed to cash, is the Section 75 protection you get for purchases over £100.

    Also I think I've earn about £800 a year in Nectar points thanks to my Sainsbury's credit card.
    Are you declaring the income stream you get from selling data?
    That's about 50k a year at Sainsbury, based on 3 points per £1 and .5p value per point.

    Do you get suits from there?

    On a useful contribution, a *lot* of our local shops now have Apple Pay for very small amounts - down to a fishcake and chips.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    alex_ said:

    Another reason why some people continue to pay in cash is because some people can't get bank accounts.

    Perhaps the Government should legislate for banks to offer bank accounts for all who want them...

    Still, maybe that's "disgustingly authoritarian" as well.

    They have.
    There is an interesting disconnect between Europe and the US on this. With the rise of the alt-banks in Europe, the general situation is that anyone can get a bank account - without credit. Revolut, for example give free setup - and then charge a small amount for issuing an actual card...

    When one of these companies wanted to setup in the US, they were hammered at politically. From the left. A bit puzzled, they talked to some political consultants. Who pointed out that, in the US, banking without lots of charges sounded incredible. And that they would be treading on the toes of lots of local activists with credit unions etc.
    Yeah, the concept of free banking seems alien to so many countries.

    FWIW - I think free banking as we know it in the UK will end in the future, but with some benefits to offset that.
    Free banking has created massive issues, mainly in scaling back access to services and creating pressure that led to misselling
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,343
    ping said:

    England’s side of the draw just got better.

    If we beat Germany, we’re in the final, hopefully!

    The thing about football is expect the unexpected and that is on show just now

  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,295

    kinabalu said:

    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    I think it's unfair to say that this is a "male" minority. There are plenty of women involved in the "anti-bigotry" movement.

    The interesting thing about this particular debate is that i think it is one which men, in general, are often very happy to stay out of. Perhaps that is mistaken, but they are certainly happy to let women make the running on it...
    Men try to get involved and get called "pig ignorant, supercilious bigots".

    It's happened to me.
    There are real issues to be resolved if it's made easier to change gender. Especially around M to F.

    There is also no end of scaremongering and prejudice masquerading as "commonsense" and cheap-as-chips "humour".

    I try my best to separate one from the other and respond accordingly.
    I posted a tweet from the US about a "woman" with a penis flaunting it in front of young girls in a women only area, with the comment that I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK.

    And from that, you "detected" pig-ignorant, supercilious bigotry.

    You DON'T have a working detector.
    Ok, I concede the point. I wrote in haste.

    There was nothing particularly supercilious there. :smile:
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,347
    ping said:

    England’s side of the draw just got better.

    If we beat Germany, we’re in the final, hopefully!

    So that's an easy walk to the final for the Germans then? Its nice that some things are still as predictable as a VW.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,846
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    So have you gone from one extreme to the other?

    ie, you used to believe that gender should be a matter of self-Id, but you now believe it should be forever fixed at birth according to biology?
    Or just maybe doesnt have a problem with self id but doesnt believe self id should carry rights to enter womens safe spaces like changing rooms, and prisons till the meat and two veg has been trimmed off
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,877


    It depends upon the company and the contract they have with their card handler.

    In the past it used to be quite typical to have a hefty authorisation charge as well as a percentage fee, but nowadays costs are increasingly a lot lower than they used to be which is one reason its more attractive now for many businesses to prefer cards.

    Its possible nowadays to have card handling with authorisation charges as low as a penny per transaction, which means that there's little reason to have minimum transaction fees if so.

    Some companies even have minimum transaction fees because it used to be uneconomic without one and now having a minimum provides an opportunity to 'upsell' so the minimum has been left in place.

    I've spent £1.50 and paid by card before at a supermarket. This is a local shop (for local people apparently) so there may have been other factors at work.

    I must confess the local corner shops near me still prefer cash sales but if you drop £30 they'll happily take a card.

    As a complete aside, news from New Zealand Mrs Stodge's parents will be getting their second Pfizer vaccination four weeks after their first.

    Up to last Tuesday, NZ had carried out 388,000 first vaccinations and 182,000 second vaccinations so a long way to go.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,504
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    So have you gone from one extreme to the other?

    ie, you used to believe that gender should be a matter of self-Id, but you now believe it should be forever fixed at birth according to biology?
    I remember the moment I realised why Dada (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dada) died out.

    Too serious and realistic.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,651
    kinabalu said:

    alex_ said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    I think it's unfair to say that this is a "male" minority. There are plenty of women involved in the "anti-bigotry" movement.

    The interesting thing about this particular debate is that i think it is one which men, in general, are often very happy to stay out of. Perhaps that is mistaken, but they are certainly happy to let women make the running on it...
    Not sure your last para is right. My experience of this debate is that men are very prominent in it, especially on the anti-trans side. In general, women are more supportive. Or so the surveys say.
    Hmm. Mumsnet is very prominent.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    alex_ said:

    Another reason why some people continue to pay in cash is because some people can't get bank accounts.

    Perhaps the Government should legislate for banks to offer bank accounts for all who want them...

    Still, maybe that's "disgustingly authoritarian" as well.

    They have.
    There is an interesting disconnect between Europe and the US on this. With the rise of the alt-banks in Europe, the general situation is that anyone can get a bank account - without credit. Revolut, for example give free setup - and then charge a small amount for issuing an actual card...

    When one of these companies wanted to setup in the US, they were hammered at politically. From the left. A bit puzzled, they talked to some political consultants. Who pointed out that, in the US, banking without lots of charges sounded incredible. And that they would be treading on the toes of lots of local activists with credit unions etc.
    I do a fair amount of translation for paysafecard, whose business model is that people without bank accounts or credit cards can buy a prepaid card for cash in a local corner shop and use it as a pseudo-credit card - they also appeal to people who are nervous of giving babnk details online. I'd have thought it was a model without a future, but they have hundreds of thousands of shops signed up and there seems to be an appetite for it in countries where it's harder to get a credit card - eastern Europe and South America especially.

    Mind you, I got turned down for a savings account with Virgin, inexplicably - I was trying to stay under the guaranteed savings limit per bank so thought I'd open another savings account. Why it should be a credit risk to accept someone's money I still can't work out. I put the money in premium bonds instead, whose average 1% interest is quite nice these days.
    Basic accounts are loss making for banks. They use them for deposit gathering or cross-selling. If they didn’t need the firmer and figured out you were going to buy anything else they wouldn’t want your custom
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610
    At least when England go out on Tuesday we won't be the first big team out and we'll go out to Germany not Czechia.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,877
    ping said:

    England’s side of the draw just got better.

    If we beat Germany, we’re in the final, hopefully!

    Yes, I seem to recall we "only" had the likes of Croatia and Iceland to beat once and glory was certain.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    stodge said:


    It depends upon the company and the contract they have with their card handler.

    In the past it used to be quite typical to have a hefty authorisation charge as well as a percentage fee, but nowadays costs are increasingly a lot lower than they used to be which is one reason its more attractive now for many businesses to prefer cards.

    Its possible nowadays to have card handling with authorisation charges as low as a penny per transaction, which means that there's little reason to have minimum transaction fees if so.

    Some companies even have minimum transaction fees because it used to be uneconomic without one and now having a minimum provides an opportunity to 'upsell' so the minimum has been left in place.

    I've spent £1.50 and paid by card before at a supermarket. This is a local shop (for local people apparently) so there may have been other factors at work.

    I must confess the local corner shops near me still prefer cash sales but if you drop £30 they'll happily take a card.

    As a complete aside, news from New Zealand Mrs Stodge's parents will be getting their second Pfizer vaccination four weeks after their first.

    Up to last Tuesday, NZ had carried out 388,000 first vaccinations and 182,000 second vaccinations so a long way to go.
    Many companies used to prefer cash because of the card handling fees.

    Nowadays I tend to suspect if a company prefers cash its because they're doing something shady. But it could be that they just need to renegotiate with their card processing company.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,779
    Netherlands being made to look like amateurs.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,462
    DavidL said:

    ping said:

    England’s side of the draw just got better.

    If we beat Germany, we’re in the final, hopefully!

    So that's an easy walk to the final for the Germans then? Its nice that some things are still as predictable as a VW.
    Germany conceded five goals so far: England none. Admittedly, they've also scored more than we have.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,055
    If that picture's anything to go by, then Dawn Butler's got a great smile. She looks friendly; approachable; genuine; even (to me, at least) cute.

    I think that's a useful trait in a politician. Naturally it's subjective, but to me, Corbyn didn't really have a pleasant smile (when he wasn't scowling), and neither IMO has Diane Abbott. Boris Johnson's face is expressive, but not exactly approachable or genuine. Rishi's smile is pleasant, whilst Pritti's makes her look somewhat mischievous. Rayner's smile is also pleasant and genuine-looking.

    How many politicians can do a 'good' smile, and how much is that worth in votes?

  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,462
    ITV streaming is as bad as GB News.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,277
    DavidL said:

    ping said:

    England’s side of the draw just got better.

    If we beat Germany, we’re in the final, hopefully!

    So that's an easy walk to the final for the Germans then? Its nice that some things are still as predictable as a VW.
    Putting all those penalties past Pickford is not quite an "easy walk" but I know what you mean.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,295
    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Cash is on its way out.

    The pandemic has accelerated it.

    More than seven million consumers registered to use phones and smart watches to make payments last year, new figures from Britain's banking industry show.

    Mobile payments - unlike the wider use of contactless cards - are notably more popular among young people with just over 50% of 16 to 34 year olds registered compared to 11% of over-65s.

    The figures from industry body UK Finance showed that overall 17.3 million people, or 32% of the adult population were using them by the end of last year, up by 7.4 million from 2019.

    They also showed that lockdowns had resulted in the overall number of payments made in the UK falling last year for the first time in six years, by 11% to 35.6 billion.

    In 2020, contactless represented 27% of all payments, up from 7% just four years earlier, the figures showed, with 83% of people now using this method - popular across all age groups and regions.

    The increase was encouraged by the upper limit on the value of such transactions being increased from £30 to £45.

    Meanwhile there was a sharp fall in the use of cash, which was used for only 17% of payments in the UK, while there were 13.7 million people who used cash only once a month or not at all.


    https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/millions-more-using-phones-smart-160900245.html

    I'd like to stress my father loves paying for stuff on his watch, so it just isn't the youff that use their smartphones and smartwatches.

    My very elderly Aunt thinks it very cool and space age that she can wave her mobile in the vague vicinity of the machine to pay.

    One thing that few people think of - small shops find cash a real problem. Too small to get deliveries and drops off with real security.....
    Same with my mother and her friends.

    One of the other advantages of paying for stuff on credit cards, as opposed to cash, is the Section 75 protection you get for purchases over £100.

    Also I think I've earn about £800 a year in Nectar points thanks to my Sainsbury's credit card.
    Push off your risk onto the poor innocent bankers why don’t you
    Absolutely.
    May be we should charge a fee for the insurance service?
  • Options
    sealo0sealo0 Posts: 48

    Charles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think it's time for a law telling businesses that they must accept cash.

    Does anyone agree?

    Good luck with that - trying to force small business to take £50 notes would be... interesting.
    Not all cash.

    There was a Moneybox special on it this weekend. Not everyone has easy access to electronic payments
    Oh yes - but it one of those things where the dynamics of the market will simply push the holdouts into a smaller and smaller corner.

    Though I did do a double take the first time I saw a chap begging in the London Underground, with a card payment device....
    Thinking about this from the retailers point of view.
    You count the cash into the till from the customer.
    You then have to count it into the evening bag~ for the safe ~ and balance the till.
    You then have to count it into the transfer bag for G4S.
    G4S have then to count it again, just to make sure you are correct.

    I once heard the 50% of £20 note use used to sniff with, I'll let you work that out.
    PS counting new plastic notes is a nightmare.
    Sealo0
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,532
    MattW said:

    Charles said:

    Cash is on its way out.

    The pandemic has accelerated it.

    More than seven million consumers registered to use phones and smart watches to make payments last year, new figures from Britain's banking industry show.

    Mobile payments - unlike the wider use of contactless cards - are notably more popular among young people with just over 50% of 16 to 34 year olds registered compared to 11% of over-65s.

    The figures from industry body UK Finance showed that overall 17.3 million people, or 32% of the adult population were using them by the end of last year, up by 7.4 million from 2019.

    They also showed that lockdowns had resulted in the overall number of payments made in the UK falling last year for the first time in six years, by 11% to 35.6 billion.

    In 2020, contactless represented 27% of all payments, up from 7% just four years earlier, the figures showed, with 83% of people now using this method - popular across all age groups and regions.

    The increase was encouraged by the upper limit on the value of such transactions being increased from £30 to £45.

    Meanwhile there was a sharp fall in the use of cash, which was used for only 17% of payments in the UK, while there were 13.7 million people who used cash only once a month or not at all.


    https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/millions-more-using-phones-smart-160900245.html

    I'd like to stress my father loves paying for stuff on his watch, so it just isn't the youff that use their smartphones and smartwatches.

    My very elderly Aunt thinks it very cool and space age that she can wave her mobile in the vague vicinity of the machine to pay.

    One thing that few people think of - small shops find cash a real problem. Too small to get deliveries and drops off with real security.....
    Same with my mother and her friends.

    One of the other advantages of paying for stuff on credit cards, as opposed to cash, is the Section 75 protection you get for purchases over £100.

    Also I think I've earn about £800 a year in Nectar points thanks to my Sainsbury's credit card.
    Are you declaring the income stream you get from selling data?
    That's about 50k a year at Sainsbury, based on 3 points per £1 and .5p value per point.

    Do you get suits from there?
    We do about £200 per week shopping at Sainsbury's which translates as £100 worth of points pet year, which are doubled because we have our house insurance via Sainsbury's bank.

    We also get bonus weekly points which come out around £5 per week.

    Pre plague we probably spent £100 in fuel, so that's a bit, which again get doubled because of the insurance.

    We regularly get offers like 10,000 points if you spend £1,000 in two months in Sainsbury's and Argos.

    I opened a second credit card for my Dad which got us £60's worth of points.

    But also get Nectar points for my train tickets via TPE and Virgin (now Avanti), I used to pay £300 a month on season tickets, which worked out as a lot of points, then doubled by paying for it on my card.

    But the main thing is the points we earn is for non Sainbury's purchases, I pretty much pay for 90% things of my card, Sky, phone bills, insurances, plane tickets, plus I also put a lot of my expenses on here as well.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,347

    DavidL said:

    ping said:

    England’s side of the draw just got better.

    If we beat Germany, we’re in the final, hopefully!

    So that's an easy walk to the final for the Germans then? Its nice that some things are still as predictable as a VW.
    Germany conceded five goals so far: England none. Admittedly, they've also scored more than we have.
    LOL. The Germans only start to play after the group stage. I sincerely hope England win. I just don't believe that Southgate will ever get even half of the potential out of their squad.

    Must also say that the Memphis Depay we have seen today is a lot more like the muppet that played for United for the best part of 2 years than the player we had seen in this tournament to date.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,295
    MaxPB said:

    At least when England go out on Tuesday we won't be the first big team out and we'll go out to Germany not Czechia.

    No! We're beating Germany. Final vs France.
  • Options
    borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    I'm worried about the Guardian.

    I just went on to check the Observer editorial that incensed Owen Jones (apparently it's "legitimising the obsessive media onslaught against trans people" but seemed fairly balanced to me)

    At the end of the article, the website gave me "Congratulations for being one of our top readers globally" having read 178 articles so far this year.

    That's less than one article a day, and I'm one of their "top readers, globally"?!? If true, they're completely screwed..
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    So if a woman doesn't want men walking into women's changing rooms with their dick and bollocks swinging about then that's just prurient? 🤔

    The issue with the trans debate is that it is forcing itself into women's issues.

    Gay relationships was a completely different issue, for gay marriage there was no issue - if you don't want to be in a gay marriage then don't marry someone of the same gender. Nobody was forced to have a gay person be in their own relationship.

    But if a woman wants to be in a woman's only space, or to compete against women in sport, then a biological man identifying as a woman is forcing themselves into their space. Into their sport.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    ITV streaming is as bad as GB News.

    Totally unacceptable in this day and age.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    When Germany make the final and lose to France, nobody will remember they were a shit team, just that Germany again made a final of a big tournament.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited June 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Taz said:

    I expect this sort of thing is coming to the UK..

    "A woman confronted the staff at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles after a man walked into the women's section with his genitals hanging out in front of girls. He identified as a "woman." The employees said he had a right to do that. The employees say that it's the law."

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1408997169344909313

    Get with the program gender critical women. This is the future. Bearded men explaining what it is to be a woman and what a woman is.
    As if we haven't had men telling us that for centuries. And exposing themselves to us as well. And behaving like perverts etc.

    Only now we're utterly fed up with it. So we say no to all this bullshit.
    Yes, it is awful and if women dare to dissent against this bullshit they get attacked, no platformed, sacked and reviled by a tiny minority. Men who think they know what being a woman is.

    I was fully on board with the trans lobby until I read of the cotton ceiling and lesbians being guilt shamed for not welcoming ‘girldick’.
    Sorry… have I understood that correctly…

    If a man self-identities as a woman, lesbians are supported to sleep with her?

    Hmmm… 🤔
    People sleep with who they want to if the desire is reciprocal. The biggest single exception is men forcing themselves on women in one way or another. The trans aspect to this is really lost in the margins. It's just that it has a certain prurient fascination.
    Guilt shaming lesbians who don’t want to sleep with women who still have their male parts is not acceptable
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    ping said:

    England’s side of the draw just got better.

    If we beat Germany, we’re in the final, hopefully!

    England are one of the leading claimants to the title of worst underachievers in world football. They'll probably flop against Germany, but failing that they'll almost certainly trip over their own shoelaces shortly thereafter.

    If England do make it to the final then it'll be the very first time in a major tournament since you know when - that storied event pre-dating the end of regular scheduled steam railway services in the UK, the Moon landings, and the invention of the microprocessor. So let's just say that the prospects don't seem particularly bright.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    At least when England go out on Tuesday we won't be the first big team out and we'll go out to Germany not Czechia.

    No! We're beating Germany. Final vs France.
    Its the hope that kills you.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,462
    edited June 2021
    sealo0 said:

    Charles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think it's time for a law telling businesses that they must accept cash.

    Does anyone agree?

    Good luck with that - trying to force small business to take £50 notes would be... interesting.
    Not all cash.

    There was a Moneybox special on it this weekend. Not everyone has easy access to electronic payments
    Oh yes - but it one of those things where the dynamics of the market will simply push the holdouts into a smaller and smaller corner.

    Though I did do a double take the first time I saw a chap begging in the London Underground, with a card payment device....
    Thinking about this from the retailers point of view.
    You count the cash into the till from the customer.
    You then have to count it into the evening bag~ for the safe ~ and balance the till.
    You then have to count it into the transfer bag for G4S.
    G4S have then to count it again, just to make sure you are correct.

    I once heard the 50% of £20 note use used to sniff with, I'll let you work that out.
    PS counting new plastic notes is a nightmare.
    Sealo0
    I've heard that from bookmakers too. Plastic notes stick together and are far harder to count than paper ones.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I'm worried about the Guardian.

    I just went on to check the Observer editorial that incensed Owen Jones (apparently it's "legitimising the obsessive media onslaught against trans people" but seemed fairly balanced to me)

    At the end of the article, the website gave me "Congratulations for being one of our top readers globally" having read 178 articles so far this year.

    That's less than one article a day, and I'm one of their "top readers, globally"?!? If true, they're completely screwed..

    I’m one of their top global readers at 69 articles…
This discussion has been closed.