With three days to go the best Chesham and Amersham bet – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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What care did we afford him ? What we know is his village clubbed together to send him here so he could earn money to send it back to Eritrea. He was treated as an economic migrant and tragically took his own life as a consequence.DavidL said:
Not saying it is. Yes, on the facts he does seem to have been an economic refugee. Here illegally. With the help of people smugglers.Leon said:
That's a terrible, tragic story but... well... he WAS an economic refugee, wasn't he? You say exactly that:DavidL said:Christ.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
"His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job."
He should never have been sent by his village, they presumably paid the money to the people traffickers, this isn't all on HMG
But a 16 year old, having got here. Should we not have taken better care of him?
It seems he was exploited by his village, exploited by people smugglers and let down in the U.K.
I don’t get it’s all our fault he was in this position.
Surely at a time when we are crying out for people to work in a variety of jobs he could have been allowed to stay ?1 -
"@laraseligman
Multiple sources tell us that no decision was made today to admit Ukraine to NATO. Rather, allies reiterated decisions made at previous summits regarding Georgia and Ukraine *eventually* becoming members at an unspecified time."
https://twitter.com/laraseligman/status/14045239195839488010 -
The west dumped on Georgia years ago when Russia invaded, its no surprise its still the case.williamglenn said:"@laraseligman
Multiple sources tell us that no decision was made today to admit Ukraine to NATO. Rather, allies reiterated decisions made at previous summits regarding Georgia and Ukraine *eventually* becoming members at an unspecified time."
https://twitter.com/laraseligman/status/14045239195839488011 -
What was that thing about the government being in talks with Andrew Lloyd Webber about some kind of special treatment or allowance for his musicals.
About the only thing worse than this government would be this government, set to music by Andrew Lloyd Webber.
Featuring “Don’t Cry for Me, Patrick Vallance” and “Any Shit Will Do” from Boris and his Amazing Technicolor Paternity Suit.2 -
The 10th and 11th are still considered incomplete data for sample date data.0
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That is absolutely horrific and tragic.DavidL said:Christ.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
Though being dispassionate I don't know what the solution is meant to be. He was an economic migrant so no matter how horrific the story sadly the right decision was made under the law. Which means sadly this could very likely happen again and again and again.
Other than expressing sympathy I have no idea h
This is like substantial meals all over again.Scott_xP said:
Lots of devil in the detail in the PM's wedding rules relaxation. Personal favourite is that a marquee only counts as an outdoor venue if it has two sides rolled up. Who thinks this stuff up? https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1404508337937469444Anabobazina said:Dancing allowed (but not recommended) outdoors at weddings.
Nice loophole right there - clever venues will simply erect a marquee!
The media reacting with shock at rules and terms that have existed for years.
Two walls missing (or one and no roof IIRC) has been classed as outdoors for years now. Three walls and a roof has been indoors for years.
From memory four walls and no roof is indoors too.1 -
Isn't this one of those "no good options" problems?DavidL said:
Not saying it is. Yes, on the facts he does seem to have been an economic refugee. Here illegally. With the help of people smugglers.Leon said:
That's a terrible, tragic story but... well... he WAS an economic refugee, wasn't he? You say exactly that:DavidL said:Christ.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
"His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job."
He should never have been sent by his village, they presumably paid the money to the people traffickers, this isn't all on HMG
But a 16 year old, having got here. Should we not have taken better care of him?
The fundamental problem is that there is an (at least partly incorrect) perception in many unpleasant places that the UK is a land where the streets are paved with gold. Thus people go to extraordinary lengths, take exceptional risks and pay some very nasty people to get here.
Then what? If we are nice, welcoming and helpful, we get more people encouraged to take these risks (and thus more die in transit), and more wealth is transferred to the criminal gangs who smuggle them. If we are rather less friendly and welcoming, there are more tragedies like this one.
I'm not sure that there is a good solution to this conundrum, but I think it has to lie at one extreme or the other - either we welcome anyone and everyone, thus putting the smugglers out of business, or we efficiently return everyone back where they came from ASAP, to make it really obvious that it's a waste of time and money even trying. Anything else ultimately just leads to more tragedies of various sort as people try their luck and fail.2 -
AIUI he was in some sort of a hostel. Social Work took him there but, despite him being a minor, then left him. My daughter had real problems communicating with him and she is good at that, well used to using translation apps to communicate. Of course he was very young. And no doubt scared. I am not talking about this any more. Enough.Taz said:
What care did we afford him ? What we know is his village clubbed together to send him here so he could earn money to send it back to Eritrea. He was treated as an economic migrant and tragically took his own life as a consequence.DavidL said:
Not saying it is. Yes, on the facts he does seem to have been an economic refugee. Here illegally. With the help of people smugglers.Leon said:
That's a terrible, tragic story but... well... he WAS an economic refugee, wasn't he? You say exactly that:DavidL said:Christ.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
"His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job."
He should never have been sent by his village, they presumably paid the money to the people traffickers, this isn't all on HMG
But a 16 year old, having got here. Should we not have taken better care of him?
It seems he was exploited by his village, exploited by people smugglers and let down in the U.K.
I don’t get it’s all our fault he was in this position.
Surely at a time when we are crying out for people to work in a variety of jobs he could have been allowed to stay ?1 -
Judging by the data just in for the 9th and 10th today, the quantum of extra data still to come is 1.1% of the existing total for the 11th, and 0.14% for the 10th - i.e. square root of **** all.Alistair said:The 10th and 11th are still considered incomplete data for sample date data.
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You did introduce the subjectDavidL said:
AIUI he was in some sort of a hostel. Social Work took him there but, despite him being a minor, then left him. My daughter had real problems communicating with him and she is good at that, well used to using translation apps to communicate. Of course he was very young. And no doubt scared. I am not talking about this any more. Enough.Taz said:
What care did we afford him ? What we know is his village clubbed together to send him here so he could earn money to send it back to Eritrea. He was treated as an economic migrant and tragically took his own life as a consequence.DavidL said:
Not saying it is. Yes, on the facts he does seem to have been an economic refugee. Here illegally. With the help of people smugglers.Leon said:
That's a terrible, tragic story but... well... he WAS an economic refugee, wasn't he? You say exactly that:DavidL said:Christ.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
"His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job."
He should never have been sent by his village, they presumably paid the money to the people traffickers, this isn't all on HMG
But a 16 year old, having got here. Should we not have taken better care of him?
It seems he was exploited by his village, exploited by people smugglers and let down in the U.K.
I don’t get it’s all our fault he was in this position.
Surely at a time when we are crying out for people to work in a variety of jobs he could have been allowed to stay ?1 -
The UK Weddings Taskforce is meeting the government tonight for an urgent meeting. Hopefully they will extract some concessions but let’s not hold our breath. The joy-killing busybodies are in charge of the country.Leon said:
I also don't quite understand it. I've just been to my gym: lots of people jiggling around indoors. Why is that OK and not dancing?maaarsh said:
It'll be the venue operators. Try paying £15k to a country house hotel and then being told it's this or you lose your money. They you turn up and try to have fun, and the operator is scared shitless of being dobbed in so plays the Gestapo for Sage.Leon said:Are there really going to be Wedding Dancing Police going round England locking up people for jigging to music during a Wedding Reception? Like the Purity Police of the Taliban, flogging musicians or men without beards
Preposterous. If you allow weddings, let people dance. Stupid fucks
I can't help but suspect a hint of puritanism. Dancing is for evil pleasure! Exercise is sinless and good1 -
Jesus Christ!!! Superstar???Gardenwalker said:What was that thing about the government being in talks with Andrew Lloyd Webber about some kind of special treatment or allowance for his musicals.
About the only thing worse than this government would be this government, set to music by Andrew Lloyd Webber.
Featuring “Don’t Cry for Me, Patrick Vallance” and “Any Shit Will Do” from Boris and his Amazing Technicolor Paternity Suit.
Made for the PM.0 -
That estimate of protection of one dose reduction in hospitalizations....at the low end, f##k me we are all going to hell in a handcart, the top end, bloody good protection against and not actually too much to worry about.1
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Question from Laura K at the BBC.Philip_Thompson said:
That is absolutely horrific and tragic.DavidL said:Christ.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
Though being dispassionate I don't know what the solution is meant to be. He was an economic migrant so no matter how horrific the story sadly the right decision was made under the law. Which means sadly this could very likely happen again and again and again.
Other than expressing sympathy I have no idea h
This is like substantial meals all over again.Scott_xP said:
Lots of devil in the detail in the PM's wedding rules relaxation. Personal favourite is that a marquee only counts as an outdoor venue if it has two sides rolled up. Who thinks this stuff up? https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1404508337937469444Anabobazina said:Dancing allowed (but not recommended) outdoors at weddings.
Nice loophole right there - clever venues will simply erect a marquee!
The media reacting with shock at rules and terms that have existed for years.
Two walls missing (or one and no roof IIRC) has been classed as outdoors for years now. Three walls and a roof has been indoors for years.
From memory four walls and no roof is indoors too.
""What if you have a triangular marquee?"2 -
Kay Burley will want to know, what if you turn the marquee upside down and inside out....does it still count as an outside marquee...dixiedean said:
Question from Laura K at the BBC.Philip_Thompson said:
That is absolutely horrific and tragic.DavidL said:Christ.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
Though being dispassionate I don't know what the solution is meant to be. He was an economic migrant so no matter how horrific the story sadly the right decision was made under the law. Which means sadly this could very likely happen again and again and again.
Other than expressing sympathy I have no idea h
This is like substantial meals all over again.Scott_xP said:
Lots of devil in the detail in the PM's wedding rules relaxation. Personal favourite is that a marquee only counts as an outdoor venue if it has two sides rolled up. Who thinks this stuff up? https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1404508337937469444Anabobazina said:Dancing allowed (but not recommended) outdoors at weddings.
Nice loophole right there - clever venues will simply erect a marquee!
The media reacting with shock at rules and terms that have existed for years.
Two walls missing (or one and no roof IIRC) has been classed as outdoors for years now. Three walls and a roof has been indoors for years.
From memory four walls and no roof is indoors too.
""What if you have a triangular marquee?"2 -
We need to ask why the development budget isn't doing more to help these countries and their people. It is no good if all of their best people migrate out.darkage said:
This is just an intractable problem, and it must be awful having to deal with individual cases when something happens like this. However, you have to disassociate individual tragedies like this one from the broader political problem.OldKingCole said:
I was one of those who worked to set up opportunities for refugees from Uganda. When I look at Priti.....RochdalePioneers said:
It is horrific. People have been manipulated to hate refugees - they're all scroungers, they should claim asylum elsewhere etc etc. People have become absolutely cold and heartless - by means of Tory policy.ping said:
Horrific.DavidL said:Christ.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
And yes, I know her parents weren't technically part of that exodus; they saw the writing on the wall and left before it got really nasty.
People are making these journeys on a completely false understanding. Much of the problem is rooted in the liberal policies of the early years of the new labour government, where people could achieve what the poor kid was trying to do. There was a very deliberate policy of turning a blind eye to economic migration.
However, such a process eventually reaches political limits, as happened in the mid 2000's. The policy of restricting immigration is ultimately the right one: unfortunately you have to stop people making the journeys and turn them back until they get the message that it is not happening.
Harsh as it is that is the only realistic way to deal with this issue, as I see it.0 -
Seville is indeed an odd choice of venue. I mean, it’s about 100 degrees in mid-January.Leon said:This is the first REALLY boring game of the euros. Shame. Too hot?
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Everyone in England has a vaccine passport available though. It's linked to the NHS app, it's already rolled out - QR code and all.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, exactly. There's absolutely no need for any kind of tracking. Just a bit of paper or a card (photo if necessary), or a QR code on your phone if you prefer, is all that would be required. Just show it at the door or email it when booking. It hasn't even got to be 100% proof against forgery, this is about reducing probabilities.Andy_JS said:
I wouldn't mind vaccine passports as long as paper certificates were allowed as well as apps, because some of us don't entirely trust electronic methods of tracking people.Leon said:
A vaxport allows you to do all of that. You sacrifice one freedom, allowing HMG to know where you are, in return for so many more freedoms, and a liberated economy. Everything could open up to the vaxporters. Theeatres, clubs, bars where you can stand!Philip_Thompson said:
Bollocks.Cocky_cockney said:
To which I would add, like Leon, that they should say to everyone else: your vaccine passport is your price for everything else in your life being free.TheScreamingEagles said:What Boris Johnson should have said is
'If you don't get vaccinated as soon as possible then you're going to die, we're not going lockdown for you antivaxxer fuckers again after the 19th of July,'
It's a very very small price to pay.
Just let people live their lives. I don't need a nanny state scanning a QR code telling me how to live my life, just lift lockdown and let us choose.
Israel did it, and we all admired how well they deconfined. We have to copy. It's the same as ID cards in the war. We got rid of them after the war (eventually)
But, it's now too late. As a result of the government failing to plan properly and failing to explain things, it's now no longer possible, so venues will have to stay closed to everyone, or operating on unviable numbers. It's a catastrophic blunder, one of many since 2019.0 -
The media really are going to wank themselves into oblivion over marquee rules aren't they....it will be like scotch eggs and other nonsense.3
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It can be like a silent disco with space helmets not headphones.TOPPING said:
I cannot imagine a single wedding which won't have dancing as normal.solarflare said:
I suppose there's always the option for socially distanced dancing. Grim.HYUFD said:Although the wedding guests limit will be lifted provided social distancing can be maintained from June 21st, dancing at the reception will remain banned
https://www.newsmond.com/30-person-limit-on-weddings-scrapped-from-june-21-but-dancing-banned-see-rules/
Or Gangnam style in cavalry formation.1 -
To take a wild guess, has somebody (possibly a member of ISAGE) picked a measure with a fantastically wide confidence interval, so that they can catastrophise over one of the extreme limits in order to try to terrify people into giving them what they want?FrancisUrquhart said:That estimate of protection of one dose reduction in hospitalizations....at the low end, f##k me we are all going to hell in a handcart, the top end, bloody good protection against and not actually too much to worry about.
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Do you think Spain v Sweden may have influenced their choice?Anabobazina said:
Seville is indeed an odd choice of venue. I mean, it’s about 100 degrees in mid-January.Leon said:This is the first REALLY boring game of the euros. Shame. Too hot?
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It was supposed to be Bilbao but got moved because of COVID. I guess the Basque government wouldn’t commit to having fans at the games.Anabobazina said:
Seville is indeed an odd choice of venue. I mean, it’s about 100 degrees in mid-January.Leon said:This is the first REALLY boring game of the euros. Shame. Too hot?
1 -
Evening all
I have to say the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO scares me more than the prospect of Johnson being PM for 30 years.
I'm also curious - many of those bemoaning the extension of the State now had no issue with the extension of State control after each and every terrorist outrage from the 60s onward.
There would be calls for more security, more surveillance, more powers for the security State as though every outrage compelled a response - it as that self-confessed Liberal Roy Jenkins who pushed through the Prevention of Terrorism Act in 1974.
In many ways, the coronavirus is a terrorist attack (even more so if you sign up to some theories about its origin) and as such it has been used to massively extend State power over our lives.
Anything is justifiable and supported if you instil enough fear - make people frightened enough and they'll sign away their most basic rights.
To be blunt, if all a Government has is fear to hold its support, its moral and political bankruptcy is evident. It is saved however by the timidity of its main opposition which perhaps suggests the moral and political bankruptcy has spread much further.2 -
Yes. This is kind of like drugs - the only drugs policies that actually work are complete legalisation (like Canada), or complete zero tolerance draconian enforcement (like Singapore). Pick one or the other. Pick a middling fudge like we have and all you do is ensure gangs profit.theProle said:
Isn't this one of those "no good options" problems?DavidL said:
Not saying it is. Yes, on the facts he does seem to have been an economic refugee. Here illegally. With the help of people smugglers.Leon said:
That's a terrible, tragic story but... well... he WAS an economic refugee, wasn't he? You say exactly that:DavidL said:Christ.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
"His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job."
He should never have been sent by his village, they presumably paid the money to the people traffickers, this isn't all on HMG
But a 16 year old, having got here. Should we not have taken better care of him?
The fundamental problem is that there is an (at least partly incorrect) perception in many unpleasant places that the UK is a land where the streets are paved with gold. Thus people go to extraordinary lengths, take exceptional risks and pay some very nasty people to get here.
Then what? If we are nice, welcoming and helpful, we get more people encouraged to take these risks (and thus more die in transit), and more wealth is transferred to the criminal gangs who smuggle them. If we are rather less friendly and welcoming, there are more tragedies like this one.
I'm not sure that there is a good solution to this conundrum, but I think it has to lie at one extreme or the other - either we welcome anyone and everyone, thus putting the smugglers out of business, or we efficiently return everyone back where they came from ASAP, to make it really obvious that it's a waste of time and money even trying. Anything else ultimately just leads to more tragedies of various sort as people try their luck and fail.
If all people are welcomed with open arms this would never happen, but we could end up with millions migrating here every year. If all who come here illegally are immediately deported (like Australia) and processed overseas then nobody would come here illegally anymore and this would stop happening. Keep a middling fudge and these tragedies will happen repeatedly.1 -
Wonderful city, however. I kind of love the relentless heat of burning Seville. The sol y sombra and the corrida. The jamons swinging in the bars, of a drowsy afternoonAnabobazina said:
Seville is indeed an odd choice of venue. I mean, it’s about 100 degrees in mid-January.Leon said:This is the first REALLY boring game of the euros. Shame. Too hot?
A dusty bottle of vino tinto, plucked from a Roman cellar. An ice-cold glass of sherry, and a dish of white asparagus. That enormous and tragic cathedral, a silhouette in the sultry sapphire twilight
Fuck, I miss travelling
Luckily, I am off to Burnham on Crouch tomorrow, to eat oysters for a week. Well, you have to start somewhere
1 -
LOL! 😂dixiedean said:
Question from Laura K at the BBC.Philip_Thompson said:
That is absolutely horrific and tragic.DavidL said:Christ.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
Though being dispassionate I don't know what the solution is meant to be. He was an economic migrant so no matter how horrific the story sadly the right decision was made under the law. Which means sadly this could very likely happen again and again and again.
Other than expressing sympathy I have no idea h
This is like substantial meals all over again.Scott_xP said:
Lots of devil in the detail in the PM's wedding rules relaxation. Personal favourite is that a marquee only counts as an outdoor venue if it has two sides rolled up. Who thinks this stuff up? https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1404508337937469444Anabobazina said:Dancing allowed (but not recommended) outdoors at weddings.
Nice loophole right there - clever venues will simply erect a marquee!
The media reacting with shock at rules and terms that have existed for years.
Two walls missing (or one and no roof IIRC) has been classed as outdoors for years now. Three walls and a roof has been indoors for years.
From memory four walls and no roof is indoors too.
""What if you have a triangular marquee?"
My guess is you can only have one wall then, since the rule is you need two open walls (including the roof if open as one).
So a pentagonal marquee could be more interesting. Can you then have 3 walls and a roof leaving 'only' two open then?1 -
Well, it's another angle on the famous Too Tall Terrorist.Andy_JS said:"UK's tallest MP claims height contributed to him losing temper with staff
Daniel Kawczynski, who is 6ft 9in tall, was found to have acted in ‘threatening and intimidating manner’ towards two members of staff"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/14/uks-tallest-mp-claims-height-partially-contributed-losing-temper/
https://www.theregister.com/2009/07/15/tall_photographers/
According to his blog, our over-tall photographer Alex Turner was taking snaps in Chatham High St last Thursday, when he was approached by two unidentified men. They did not identify themselves, but demanded that he show them some ID and warned that if he failed to comply, they would summon police officers to deal with him.
This they did, and a PCSO and WPC quickly joined the fray. Turner took a photo of the pair, and was promptly arrested. It is unclear from his own account precisely what he was being arrested for. However, he does record that the WPC stated she had felt threatened by him when he took her picture, referring to his size - 5' 11" and about 12 stone - and implying that she found it intimidating.
Turner claims he was handcuffed, held in a police van for around 20 minutes, and forced to provide ID before they would release him. He was then searched in public by plain clothes officers who failed to provide any ID before they did so.
Following his release, he further claims that the police confirmed he was at liberty to take photographs, so long as - according to the PCSO - he did not take any photographs of the police.
This is just the latest in a long line of PR disasters that have dogged police forces over the last 12 months, with tourists, schoolboys and passers-by all subject to arrest for the heinous offence of pursuing their hobby. Each incident is followed by much police hand-wringing, and statements to the effect that these are one-offs: the fault of over-zealous individual officers.2 -
That 2nd Czech goal is one of the greatest goals I have ever seen. Pure genius. Pity for Scotland!
It's their equivalent of THAT Maradona goal1 -
Re the never ending debate on the pandemic, one thought: if scientists are so driven to go with the science, why are we not hearing anything from them about the need to cut obesity? After all; one of the clear points from the evidence is that obese / fat people are more likely to be impacted.
It’s a rhetorical question by the way. I think we know the answer - it’s not deemed “correct” to highlight obesity because it “scapegoats” people. Yet not only are we all paying the price because of this issue (in terms of Covid and the general health costs) but it’s not helping these people themselves.
The scientists” silence on this is one of the reasons why I find it hard to accept at face value the idea that they are solely driven by the science.1 -
Just on the second goal v Scotland, it is the longest distance goal ever in Euro history2
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Are you sure about that?stodge said:Evening all
I have to say the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO scares me more than the prospect of Johnson being PM for 30 years.
I'm also curious - many of those bemoaning the extension of the State now had no issue with the extension of State control after each and every terrorist outrage from the 60s onward.
There would be calls for more security, more surveillance, more powers for the security State as though every outrage compelled a response - it as that self-confessed Liberal Roy Jenkins who pushed through the Prevention of Terrorism Act in 1974.
In many ways, the coronavirus is a terrorist attack (even more so if you sign up to some theories about its origin) and as such it has been used to massively extend State power over our lives.
Anything is justifiable and supported if you instil enough fear - make people frightened enough and they'll sign away their most basic rights.
To be blunt, if all a Government has is fear to hold its support, its moral and political bankruptcy is evident. It is saved however by the timidity of its main opposition which perhaps suggests the moral and political bankruptcy has spread much further.
Speaking for myself I opposed the extension of terrorist State control under Tony Blair. Remember when he wanted to get detention for months without trial - and the Tories opposed that then for some bizarre unknown reason David Davis triggered a by-election over that.
Interestingly still even though Blair is gone and Labour are now on the opposition benches and have been for over 11 years, its still the Tories providing the opposition and not Labour.1 -
Some very encouraging data today.
During the next week we should see numerous districts in the north-west either plateau or significantly fall with new cases - Blackburn, Bolton, Burnley, Chorley, Cheshire East, Cheshire West, Rossendale, Stockport and maybe others.
New cases with Zoe are also reaching a plateau:
https://covid.joinzoe.com/data0 -
Given that the symptoms of delta variant resemble having a cold am I the only one to wonder what the cold virus originated as ?1
-
Careful you will have the "body positivity" lot onto you..MrEd said:Re the never ending debate on the pandemic, one thought: if scientists are so driven to go with the science, why are we not hearing anything from them about the need to cut obesity? After all; one of the clear points from the evidence is that obese / fat people are more likely to be impacted.
It’s a rhetorical question by the way. I think we know the answer - it’s not deemed “correct” to highlight obesity because it “scapegoats” people. Yet not only are we all paying the price because of this issue (in terms of Covid and the general health costs) but it’s not helping these people themselves.
The scientists” silence on this is one of the reasons why I find it hard to accept at face value the idea that they are solely driven by the science.0 -
What makes it so amazing is that he REALLY meant it, he looked up and he saw the chance - the goalie miles off line - and he obviously and cleverly intended that wild looping bend on the ball. Often when you get these insane punts from 50 yards out, it is hugely speculative, and there's a lot of luckBig_G_NorthWales said:Just on the second goal v Scotland, it is the longest distance goal ever in Euro history
There was no luck here. All skill. Absolutely superb. As a PB-er said earlier, even if the keeper had been on his line he might have struggled to keep it out, given the viciousness of the curve2 -
Aren’t the symptoms very similar to the other coronavirus variants? Which are definitely different from the cold.another_richard said:Given that the symptoms of delta variant resemble having a cold am I the only one to wonder what the cold virus originated as ?
0 -
Good god Wooten is ranty and boring.
Like a poundshop Tucker Carlson.0 -
There are shed loads of papers on the negative impact of obesity on your health, leading to all sorts of nonsense reports in not very scientifically literate newspapers and on the TV / radio.MrEd said:Re the never ending debate on the pandemic, one thought: if scientists are so driven to go with the science, why are we not hearing anything from them about the need to cut obesity? After all; one of the clear points from the evidence is that obese / fat people are more likely to be impacted.
It’s a rhetorical question by the way. I think we know the answer - it’s not deemed “correct” to highlight obesity because it “scapegoats” people. Yet not only are we all paying the price because of this issue (in terms of Covid and the general health costs) but it’s not helping these people themselves.
The scientists” silence on this is one of the reasons why I find it hard to accept at face value the idea that they are solely driven by the science.0 -
IIRC about 10% of colds are caused by coronaviruses, the rest by rhinovirusesanother_richard said:Given that the symptoms of delta variant resemble having a cold am I the only one to wonder what the cold virus originated as ?
1 -
In what way is a party after a wedding ceremony different from any other party?
They are either both OK, or neither is OK.1 -
Am I the only one who thinks that Boris knows this delay is unnecessary and is giving himself the option to end it early and have himself declared the great national hero ?0
-
https://twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1404525333316001798
Sage central estimate is that not delaying would have caused 250k cases per day.
So a small unlocking stage in Summer, with 80% of adults had a first vaccination and over half double, was going to cause Britain to hit a case rate more than double the highest rate yet seen anywhere in the world ever.2 -
Did you never see / hear him on Talk Radio? Terrible hire IMO.Philip_Thompson said:Good god Wooten is ranty and boring.
Like a poundshop Tucker Carlson.0 -
I know. We must all bow down in the Church of FatnessFrancisUrquhart said:
Careful you will have the "body positivity" lot onto you..MrEd said:Re the never ending debate on the pandemic, one thought: if scientists are so driven to go with the science, why are we not hearing anything from them about the need to cut obesity? After all; one of the clear points from the evidence is that obese / fat people are more likely to be impacted.
It’s a rhetorical question by the way. I think we know the answer - it’s not deemed “correct” to highlight obesity because it “scapegoats” people. Yet not only are we all paying the price because of this issue (in terms of Covid and the general health costs) but it’s not helping these people themselves.
The scientists” silence on this is one of the reasons why I find it hard to accept at face value the idea that they are solely driven by the science.1 -
Delta variant symptoms include runny nose and sore throat. Those were not major symptoms previously.RobD said:
Aren’t the symptoms very similar to the other coronavirus variants? Which are definitely different from the cold.another_richard said:Given that the symptoms of delta variant resemble having a cold am I the only one to wonder what the cold virus originated as ?
another_richard you're not the only one to speculate that the common cold began as a Covid style coronavirus - nor that Covid19 will end up as another common cold strain once we all have immunity to it.0 -
You, Andy Burnham and Peter Crouch. Eating oysters. Sounds like fun!Leon said:
Wonderful city, however. I kind of love the relentless heat of burning Seville. The sol y sombra and the corrida. The jamons swinging in the bars, of a drowsy afternoonAnabobazina said:
Seville is indeed an odd choice of venue. I mean, it’s about 100 degrees in mid-January.Leon said:This is the first REALLY boring game of the euros. Shame. Too hot?
A dusty bottle of vino tinto, plucked from a Roman cellar. An ice-cold glass of sherry, and a dish of white asparagus. That enormous and tragic cathedral, a silhouette in the sultry sapphire twilight
Fuck, I miss travelling
Luckily, I am off to Burnham on Crouch tomorrow, to eat oysters for a week. Well, you have to start somewhere1 -
The nature of reality means that in our world unfettered economic migration is not a feasible policy. The only possible system is one in which states choose who can come. The problem with refugee migration is several fold. As Matthew Parris pointed out years ago several billion people have a moral right to refugee status, and countless millions a lawful right. An unquantifiable amount is economic migration in part or wholly, dressed up as refugee status.DecrepiterJohnL said:
We need to ask why the development budget isn't doing more to help these countries and their people. It is no good if all of their best people migrate out.darkage said:
This is just an intractable problem, and it must be awful having to deal with individual cases when something happens like this. However, you have to disassociate individual tragedies like this one from the broader political problem.OldKingCole said:
I was one of those who worked to set up opportunities for refugees from Uganda. When I look at Priti.....RochdalePioneers said:
It is horrific. People have been manipulated to hate refugees - they're all scroungers, they should claim asylum elsewhere etc etc. People have become absolutely cold and heartless - by means of Tory policy.ping said:
Horrific.DavidL said:Christ.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
And yes, I know her parents weren't technically part of that exodus; they saw the writing on the wall and left before it got really nasty.
People are making these journeys on a completely false understanding. Much of the problem is rooted in the liberal policies of the early years of the new labour government, where people could achieve what the poor kid was trying to do. There was a very deliberate policy of turning a blind eye to economic migration.
However, such a process eventually reaches political limits, as happened in the mid 2000's. The policy of restricting immigration is ultimately the right one: unfortunately you have to stop people making the journeys and turn them back until they get the message that it is not happening.
Harsh as it is that is the only realistic way to deal with this issue, as I see it.
Massively neglected is the concept of states from which legitimate refugees come. The quality of governance in such countries is the main issue, and the UN accepts into membership states from which their own refugee agency regards as properly refugees. Why? They should all be international pariahs.
The only rational approach is for everyone from anywhere seeking refugee status in any place to be administered by one single UN managed system so that no advantage accrues from arriving in a rich country. This would put most of the criminal gangs out of business and would sort out those genuinely fleeing.
1 -
You’ve presented this. People are asking questions and are not being judgmental or unpleasant. We just want to understand what went wrong.DavidL said:
AIUI he was in some sort of a hostel. Social Work took him there but, despite him being a minor, then left him. My daughter had real problems communicating with him and she is good at that, well used to using translation apps to communicate. Of course he was very young. And no doubt scared. I am not talking about this any more. Enough.Taz said:
What care did we afford him ? What we know is his village clubbed together to send him here so he could earn money to send it back to Eritrea. He was treated as an economic migrant and tragically took his own life as a consequence.DavidL said:
Not saying it is. Yes, on the facts he does seem to have been an economic refugee. Here illegally. With the help of people smugglers.Leon said:
That's a terrible, tragic story but... well... he WAS an economic refugee, wasn't he? You say exactly that:DavidL said:Christ.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
"His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job."
He should never have been sent by his village, they presumably paid the money to the people traffickers, this isn't all on HMG
But a 16 year old, having got here. Should we not have taken better care of him?
It seems he was exploited by his village, exploited by people smugglers and let down in the U.K.
I don’t get it’s all our fault he was in this position.
Surely at a time when we are crying out for people to work in a variety of jobs he could have been allowed to stay ?0 -
Nope, never listened to Talk Radio. If that's what its like, have no intention of starting to do so either.FrancisUrquhart said:
Did you never see / hear him on Talk Radio? Terrible hire IMO.Philip_Thompson said:Good god Wooten is ranty and boring.
Like a poundshop Tucker Carlson.
I only listen to radio if I'm in my car and that's an AM/FM radio and the only talk station I get with my tuner is 5Live.0 -
But those aren’t the only symptoms. There are probably a ton of viruses that can result in a runny nose, it doesn’t automatically mean they are related to the cold.Philip_Thompson said:
Delta variant symptoms include runny nose and sore throat. Those were not major symptoms previously.RobD said:
Aren’t the symptoms very similar to the other coronavirus variants? Which are definitely different from the cold.another_richard said:Given that the symptoms of delta variant resemble having a cold am I the only one to wonder what the cold virus originated as ?
another_richard you're not the only one to speculate that the common cold began as a Covid style coronavirus - nor that Covid19 will end up as another common cold strain once we all have immunity to it.0 -
Our scientists should be pressing the point on obesity hard. As you said, there is plenty of information showing ita negative impact. If people truly mean we should use this crisis to change poor behaviours, this should very much be at the forefront.ManchesterKurt said:
There are shed loads of papers on the negative impact of obesity on your health, leading to all sorts of nonsense reports in not very scientifically literate newspapers and on the TV / radio.MrEd said:Re the never ending debate on the pandemic, one thought: if scientists are so driven to go with the science, why are we not hearing anything from them about the need to cut obesity? After all; one of the clear points from the evidence is that obese / fat people are more likely to be impacted.
It’s a rhetorical question by the way. I think we know the answer - it’s not deemed “correct” to highlight obesity because it “scapegoats” people. Yet not only are we all paying the price because of this issue (in terms of Covid and the general health costs) but it’s not helping these people themselves.
The scientists” silence on this is one of the reasons why I find it hard to accept at face value the idea that they are solely driven by the science.0 -
I only saw clips of it on the internet, but it just seems like on every issue deliberately picks the contrarian side and rants about it.Philip_Thompson said:
Nope, never listened to Talk Radio. If that's what its like, have no intention of starting to do so either.FrancisUrquhart said:
Did you never see / hear him on Talk Radio? Terrible hire IMO.Philip_Thompson said:Good god Wooten is ranty and boring.
Like a poundshop Tucker Carlson.
I only listen to radio if I'm in my car and that's an AM/FM radio and the only talk station I get with my tuner is 5Live.0 -
He has been threatening to open anyway and inviting the authorities to take action,Gardenwalker said:What was that thing about the government being in talks with Andrew Lloyd Webber about some kind of special treatment or allowance for his musicals.
About the only thing worse than this government would be this government, set to music by Andrew Lloyd Webber.
Featuring “Don’t Cry for Me, Patrick Vallance” and “Any Shit Will Do” from Boris and his Amazing Technicolor Paternity Suit.
Whatever it was it couldn’t be worse than the film of CATS.0 -
How the flaming blazes can the finals be treated as "pilots" - makes total nonsense of tonight's announcement https://twitter.com/CityAM/status/14045311188381941770
-
Why can't they be treated as pilots?Scott_xP said:How the flaming blazes can the finals be treated as "pilots" - makes total nonsense of tonight's announcement https://twitter.com/CityAM/status/1404531118838194177
1 -
He's another one who thinks if you shout enough people will think you are right.Philip_Thompson said:Good god Wooten is ranty and boring.
Like a poundshop Tucker Carlson.
He's a Kiwi by birth so I imagine he's a huge fan of Jacinda.2 -
Surely the opportunity and narrative is driven my editors of newspapers and TV / radio ?MrEd said:
Our scientists should be pressing the point on obesity hard. As you said, there is plenty of information showing ita negative impact. If people truly mean we should use this crisis to change poor behaviours, this should very much be at the forefront.ManchesterKurt said:
There are shed loads of papers on the negative impact of obesity on your health, leading to all sorts of nonsense reports in not very scientifically literate newspapers and on the TV / radio.MrEd said:Re the never ending debate on the pandemic, one thought: if scientists are so driven to go with the science, why are we not hearing anything from them about the need to cut obesity? After all; one of the clear points from the evidence is that obese / fat people are more likely to be impacted.
It’s a rhetorical question by the way. I think we know the answer - it’s not deemed “correct” to highlight obesity because it “scapegoats” people. Yet not only are we all paying the price because of this issue (in terms of Covid and the general health costs) but it’s not helping these people themselves.
The scientists” silence on this is one of the reasons why I find it hard to accept at face value the idea that they are solely driven by the science.
There are non-stop badly written articles in The Express & Mail almost every day utterly failing to relay medical updates factually.
The problem really is not with science or scientists, it is the media who are normally utterly scientifically and numerically illiterate.1 -
Never listen to bbc radio. I.prefer Times Radio for now... I am done with the BBC and all.its woke shitteryPhilip_Thompson said:
Nope, never listened to Talk Radio. If that's what its like, have no intention of starting to do so either.FrancisUrquhart said:
Did you never see / hear him on Talk Radio? Terrible hire IMO.Philip_Thompson said:Good god Wooten is ranty and boring.
Like a poundshop Tucker Carlson.
I only listen to radio if I'm in my car and that's an AM/FM radio and the only talk station I get with my tuner is 5Live.1 -
Well, I've missed Boris's press conference and the rest of tonight's shenanigans as I've been out - this site is great for catching up, thanks all.
I met my kids and their other halves in the pub at 6pm, and have just returned home. Service was brilliant - table, but no delay - regularly asked if we were ready for another drink. Kids/partners are all aged 27-31, and are enjoying the good weather. Lots of sport, drinking, hanging out at the beach. Okay, no clubs, but lots of the pubs are open till 1am. Son's GF is pregnant, thinking about getting married, but inclined to leave it until "this Covid shit is over". Some are fed up working from home; others quite happy. But constraints on civil liberties? Not so much.
To conclude - I really don't think that the restrictions, even on the young, are being felt quite as badly as some on here would contend. Our extended family recognises why today's decision has been made, and can live with it. The other thing we have in common - we're a bunch of lefties from all generations that can't stand BJ.1 -
Andrew Lloyd Webber doing some jail time would be some small crumb of good to come out of this trying time.Taz said:
He has been threatening to open anyway and inviting the authorities to take action,Gardenwalker said:What was that thing about the government being in talks with Andrew Lloyd Webber about some kind of special treatment or allowance for his musicals.
About the only thing worse than this government would be this government, set to music by Andrew Lloyd Webber.
Featuring “Don’t Cry for Me, Patrick Vallance” and “Any Shit Will Do” from Boris and his Amazing Technicolor Paternity Suit.
Whatever it was it couldn’t be worse than the film of CATS.3 -
A risk analyst is in last week's Spectator saying his model (much simpler than Ferguson's) suggests we could be looking at 2million people with virus by end of July. Mostly the young. He argues that either you have had it, you are vaccinated or you will get it this summer.maaarsh said:https://twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1404525333316001798
Sage central estimate is that not delaying would have caused 250k cases per day.
So a small unlocking stage in Summer, with 80% of adults had a first vaccination and over half double, was going to cause Britain to hit a case rate more than double the highest rate yet seen anywhere in the world ever.
This and SAGE seems just totally wild to me, but we shall see.
0 -
I have no idea why @Scott_xP thinks it is a nonsense, sensible ideaRobD said:
Why can't they be treated as pilots?Scott_xP said:How the flaming blazes can the finals be treated as "pilots" - makes total nonsense of tonight's announcement https://twitter.com/CityAM/status/1404531118838194177
1 -
Let's get rid of rock-climbing, cave-diving, HALO jumping and other bad behaviours while we are at it.MrEd said:
Our scientists should be pressing the point on obesity hard. As you said, there is plenty of information showing ita negative impact. If people truly mean we should use this crisis to change poor behaviours, this should very much be at the forefront.ManchesterKurt said:
There are shed loads of papers on the negative impact of obesity on your health, leading to all sorts of nonsense reports in not very scientifically literate newspapers and on the TV / radio.MrEd said:Re the never ending debate on the pandemic, one thought: if scientists are so driven to go with the science, why are we not hearing anything from them about the need to cut obesity? After all; one of the clear points from the evidence is that obese / fat people are more likely to be impacted.
It’s a rhetorical question by the way. I think we know the answer - it’s not deemed “correct” to highlight obesity because it “scapegoats” people. Yet not only are we all paying the price because of this issue (in terms of Covid and the general health costs) but it’s not helping these people themselves.
The scientists” silence on this is one of the reasons why I find it hard to accept at face value the idea that they are solely driven by the science.1 -
The Warwick model details released this evening say they expect 100k cases on the 21st of June.
Let's say the current 1m+ tests a day are only picking up 50% of cases. Does anyone expect 50k positive tests in 7 days time?
How are they not embarassed to go to print with this stuff?2 -
For something like this, a Chris Whiny standing up and saying we need to cut obesity would have far more impact than a media publication. People associate the latter with flip-flopping constantly when it comes to medical advice / what to do and what not to do.ManchesterKurt said:
Surely the opportunity and narrative is driven my editors of newspapers and TV / radio ?MrEd said:
Our scientists should be pressing the point on obesity hard. As you said, there is plenty of information showing ita negative impact. If people truly mean we should use this crisis to change poor behaviours, this should very much be at the forefront.ManchesterKurt said:
There are shed loads of papers on the negative impact of obesity on your health, leading to all sorts of nonsense reports in not very scientifically literate newspapers and on the TV / radio.MrEd said:Re the never ending debate on the pandemic, one thought: if scientists are so driven to go with the science, why are we not hearing anything from them about the need to cut obesity? After all; one of the clear points from the evidence is that obese / fat people are more likely to be impacted.
It’s a rhetorical question by the way. I think we know the answer - it’s not deemed “correct” to highlight obesity because it “scapegoats” people. Yet not only are we all paying the price because of this issue (in terms of Covid and the general health costs) but it’s not helping these people themselves.
The scientists” silence on this is one of the reasons why I find it hard to accept at face value the idea that they are solely driven by the science.
There are non-stop badly written articles in The Express & Mail almost every day utterly failing to relay medical updates factually.
The problem really is not with science or scientists, it is the media who are normally utterly scientifically and numerically illiterate.
0 -
That's so tragic. It must be a terrible shock for your daughter, who seems a very kind person.DavidL said:Christ.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.2 -
That does seem unlikely. Do you have a link to the model?maaarsh said:The Warwick model details released this evening say they expect 100k cases on the 21st of June.
Let's say the current 1m+ tests a day are only picking up 50% of cases. Does anyone expect 50k positive tests in 7 days time?
How are they not embarassed to go to print with this stuff?0 -
He’s probably just cut n pasted it from twitter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea why @Scott_xP thinks it is a nonsense, sensible ideaRobD said:
Why can't they be treated as pilots?Scott_xP said:How the flaming blazes can the finals be treated as "pilots" - makes total nonsense of tonight's announcement https://twitter.com/CityAM/status/1404531118838194177
1 -
Not available on AM/FM radios.squareroot2 said:
Never listen to bbc radio. I.prefer Times Radio for now... I am done with the BBC and all.its woke shitteryPhilip_Thompson said:
Nope, never listened to Talk Radio. If that's what its like, have no intention of starting to do so either.FrancisUrquhart said:
Did you never see / hear him on Talk Radio? Terrible hire IMO.Philip_Thompson said:Good god Wooten is ranty and boring.
Like a poundshop Tucker Carlson.
I only listen to radio if I'm in my car and that's an AM/FM radio and the only talk station I get with my tuner is 5Live.0 -
250k per day would be four times higher than the peak.rottenborough said:
A risk analyst is in last week's Spectator saying his model (much simpler than Ferguson's) suggests we could be looking at 2million people with virus by end of July. Mostly the young. He argues that either you have had it, you are vaccinated or you will get it this summer.maaarsh said:https://twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1404525333316001798
Sage central estimate is that not delaying would have caused 250k cases per day.
So a small unlocking stage in Summer, with 80% of adults had a first vaccination and over half double, was going to cause Britain to hit a case rate more than double the highest rate yet seen anywhere in the world ever.
This and SAGE seems just totally wild to me, but we shall see.
A peak which Bolton and Blackburn, and Glasgow and Edinburgh, have all failed to reach.1 -
No, the wording in the tweet is different:Taz said:
He’s probably just cut n pasted it from twitter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea why @Scott_xP thinks it is a nonsense, sensible ideaRobD said:
Why can't they be treated as pilots?Scott_xP said:How the flaming blazes can the finals be treated as "pilots" - makes total nonsense of tonight's announcement https://twitter.com/CityAM/status/1404531118838194177
Wimbledon tennis finals to be played with capacity crowds http://dlvr.it/S1k0QK0 -
Lilico reckons Boris should have delayed making a decision for a week, by which time the Delta numbers may well have turned the other way and the panic can be put on ice for a while.another_richard said:Am I the only one who thinks that Boris knows this delay is unnecessary and is giving himself the option to end it early and have himself declared the great national hero ?
0 -
Relevant plot in the image embedded in this tweet -RobD said:
That does seem unlikely. Do you have a link to the model?maaarsh said:The Warwick model details released this evening say they expect 100k cases on the 21st of June.
Let's say the current 1m+ tests a day are only picking up 50% of cases. Does anyone expect 50k positive tests in 7 days time?
How are they not embarassed to go to print with this stuff?
https://twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1404525333316001798
Final dotted line is June 21st unlocking date, and Warwick model is at 100k. Cuckoo.0 -
It's a joke. These are the data models driving the decision making process. I don't understand how these scientists haven't been disowned. It's complete garbage.maaarsh said:The Warwick model details released this evening say they expect 100k cases on the 21st of June.
Let's say the current 1m+ tests a day are only picking up 50% of cases. Does anyone expect 50k positive tests in 7 days time?
How are they not embarassed to go to print with this stuff?1 -
Utterly pathetic isn't itmaaarsh said:https://twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1404525333316001798
Sage central estimate is that not delaying would have caused 250k cases per day.
So a small unlocking stage in Summer, with 80% of adults had a first vaccination and over half double, was going to cause Britain to hit a case rate more than double the highest rate yet seen anywhere in the world ever.0 -
Ha ha, brilliant. I’m sure his expertise will be evident when he explains his thought process behind the comment.RobD said:
No, the wording in the tweet is different:Taz said:
He’s probably just cut n pasted it from twitter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea why @Scott_xP thinks it is a nonsense, sensible ideaRobD said:
Why can't they be treated as pilots?Scott_xP said:How the flaming blazes can the finals be treated as "pilots" - makes total nonsense of tonight's announcement https://twitter.com/CityAM/status/1404531118838194177
Wimbledon tennis finals to be played with capacity crowds http://dlvr.it/S1k0QK0 -
It would be more interesting to look at the hospital admissions data on the second row, as those can more easily be tested. I could imagine testing picking up far less than 50%, especially as more and more infections become asymptomatic.maaarsh said:
Relevant plot in the image embedded in this tweet -RobD said:
That does seem unlikely. Do you have a link to the model?maaarsh said:The Warwick model details released this evening say they expect 100k cases on the 21st of June.
Let's say the current 1m+ tests a day are only picking up 50% of cases. Does anyone expect 50k positive tests in 7 days time?
How are they not embarassed to go to print with this stuff?
https://twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1404525333316001798
Final dotted line is June 21st unlocking date, and Warwick model is at 100k. Cuckoo.0 -
But people do stand up and say such things.MrEd said:
For something like this, a Chris Whiny standing up and saying we need to cut obesity would have far more impact than a media publication. People associate the latter with flip-flopping constantly when it comes to medical advice / what to do and what not to do.ManchesterKurt said:
Surely the opportunity and narrative is driven my editors of newspapers and TV / radio ?MrEd said:
Our scientists should be pressing the point on obesity hard. As you said, there is plenty of information showing ita negative impact. If people truly mean we should use this crisis to change poor behaviours, this should very much be at the forefront.ManchesterKurt said:
There are shed loads of papers on the negative impact of obesity on your health, leading to all sorts of nonsense reports in not very scientifically literate newspapers and on the TV / radio.MrEd said:Re the never ending debate on the pandemic, one thought: if scientists are so driven to go with the science, why are we not hearing anything from them about the need to cut obesity? After all; one of the clear points from the evidence is that obese / fat people are more likely to be impacted.
It’s a rhetorical question by the way. I think we know the answer - it’s not deemed “correct” to highlight obesity because it “scapegoats” people. Yet not only are we all paying the price because of this issue (in terms of Covid and the general health costs) but it’s not helping these people themselves.
The scientists” silence on this is one of the reasons why I find it hard to accept at face value the idea that they are solely driven by the science.
There are non-stop badly written articles in The Express & Mail almost every day utterly failing to relay medical updates factually.
The problem really is not with science or scientists, it is the media who are normally utterly scientifically and numerically illiterate.
Michael Mosley makes a shed load of such programmes that are on the BBC all the time, 30mins or 60mins programmes talking these kinds of issues.
Very few people watch them.
Either the government needs to put them in their press conferences and ask them to talk about such topics, and be accused of creating a nanny state, or the media need to start changing how they report science.0 -
I’m shocked at this news. What are the odds of the same privilege being granted to The Open? Very long I’d suggest.Scott_xP said:How the flaming blazes can the finals be treated as "pilots" - makes total nonsense of tonight's announcement https://twitter.com/CityAM/status/1404531118838194177
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It's not only obesity that the political authorities and scientists are keeping almost silent about: they're also making little or no sound about the known benefits of certain foods and minerals for the immune system - simple things such as iron, zinc, and vitamin C. Many, especially those aged under 70, have beaten SARSCoV2 infections without suffering any symptoms, using their immune systems' "first lines of defence", without any antibodies even needing to be called out.MrEd said:Re the never ending debate on the pandemic, one thought: if scientists are so driven to go with the science, why are we not hearing anything from them about the need to cut obesity? After all; one of the clear points from the evidence is that obese / fat people are more likely to be impacted.
It’s a rhetorical question by the way. I think we know the answer - it’s not deemed “correct” to highlight obesity because it “scapegoats” people. Yet not only are we all paying the price because of this issue (in terms of Covid and the general health costs) but it’s not helping these people themselves.
The scientists” silence on this is one of the reasons why I find it hard to accept at face value the idea that they are solely driven by the science.
Given just the single fact of how few people wipe supermarket trolley handles, I tend to suspect that the proportion of the adult population who've been infected with at least some SARSCoV2 particles and who haven't noticed because they've killed them fast may even be the majority of us. A public health campaign could increase our absolute numbers.
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A mate just texted this! 54 yards!!Big_G_NorthWales said:Just on the second goal v Scotland, it is the longest distance goal ever in Euro history
Apparently it’s fully 12 yards longer than the previous record??0 -
Indeed but a runny nose was not a major symptom of the original Covid19. Indeed it was quite distinctively so, which was part of what suggested early on if you had it you probably had the cold and not Covid.RobD said:
But those aren’t the only symptoms. There are probably a ton of viruses that can result in a runny nose, it doesn’t automatically mean they are related to the cold.Philip_Thompson said:
Delta variant symptoms include runny nose and sore throat. Those were not major symptoms previously.RobD said:
Aren’t the symptoms very similar to the other coronavirus variants? Which are definitely different from the cold.another_richard said:Given that the symptoms of delta variant resemble having a cold am I the only one to wonder what the cold virus originated as ?
another_richard you're not the only one to speculate that the common cold began as a Covid style coronavirus - nor that Covid19 will end up as another common cold strain once we all have immunity to it.
I wonder if as well as our acquiring immunity (which we all pretty much have for common cold coronaviruses and rhinoviruses) whether Covid is evolving more towards a common cold.
Wouldn't surprise me if 20 years from now Covid is still circulating but we no longer notice it, its just another cold strain.0 -
On topic, is there a difference in outcomes of by elections where the incumbent has died rather than been removed
What if the marquee is placed in a building with all the windows and doors opened?FrancisUrquhart said:
Kay Burley will want to know, what if you turn the marquee upside down and inside out....does it still count as an outside marquee...dixiedean said:
Question from Laura K at the BBC.Philip_Thompson said:
That is absolutely horrific and tragic.DavidL said:Christ.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
Though being dispassionate I don't know what the solution is meant to be. He was an economic migrant so no matter how horrific the story sadly the right decision was made under the law. Which means sadly this could very likely happen again and again and again.
Other than expressing sympathy I have no idea h
This is like substantial meals all over again.Scott_xP said:
Lots of devil in the detail in the PM's wedding rules relaxation. Personal favourite is that a marquee only counts as an outdoor venue if it has two sides rolled up. Who thinks this stuff up? https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1404508337937469444Anabobazina said:Dancing allowed (but not recommended) outdoors at weddings.
Nice loophole right there - clever venues will simply erect a marquee!
The media reacting with shock at rules and terms that have existed for years.
Two walls missing (or one and no roof IIRC) has been classed as outdoors for years now. Three walls and a roof has been indoors for years.
From memory four walls and no roof is indoors too.
""What if you have a triangular marquee?"0 -
Indeed.MrEd said:Re the never ending debate on the pandemic, one thought: if scientists are so driven to go with the science, why are we not hearing anything from them about the need to cut obesity? After all; one of the clear points from the evidence is that obese / fat people are more likely to be impacted.
It’s a rhetorical question by the way. I think we know the answer - it’s not deemed “correct” to highlight obesity because it “scapegoats” people. Yet not only are we all paying the price because of this issue (in terms of Covid and the general health costs) but it’s not helping these people themselves.
The scientists” silence on this is one of the reasons why I find it hard to accept at face value the idea that they are solely driven by the science.
Telling obese slobs to eat less and exercise more is probably not a vote winner either.0 -
There must be trials at the end of this. And I would put the scientists in the dock, first. Before the politiciansMaxPB said:
It's a joke. These are the data models driving the decision making process. I don't understand how these scientists haven't been disowned. It's complete garbage.maaarsh said:The Warwick model details released this evening say they expect 100k cases on the 21st of June.
Let's say the current 1m+ tests a day are only picking up 50% of cases. Does anyone expect 50k positive tests in 7 days time?
How are they not embarassed to go to print with this stuff?
From Anthony "gain of function" Fauci to Richard "no conflict of interest" Horton, from Peter "we didn't have any bats!" Daszak, to all the fucked up academic modellers and nutters, right down to Susan "hey I'm a commie!" Michie, who wants us locked down forever
This cannot stand. They must be judged. And if they are found wanting, they must pay2 -
It'll take more than a week for that to be clear though noticeably Boris did say they will be keeping this under review and he reserved the right to go sooner than 4 weeks if the situation allows.rottenborough said:
Lilico reckons Boris should have delayed making a decision for a week, by which time the Delta numbers may well have turned the other way and the panic can be put on ice for a while.another_richard said:Am I the only one who thinks that Boris knows this delay is unnecessary and is giving himself the option to end it early and have himself declared the great national hero ?
Within a fortnight it should be clear that all the models are garbage.0 -
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/spi-m-o-summary-of-further-modelling-of-easing-restrictions-roadmap-step-4-9-june-2021RobD said:
It would be more interesting to look at the hospital admissions data on the second row, as those can more easily be tested. I could imagine testing picking up far less than 50%, especially as more and more infections become asymptomatic.maaarsh said:
Relevant plot in the image embedded in this tweet -RobD said:
That does seem unlikely. Do you have a link to the model?maaarsh said:The Warwick model details released this evening say they expect 100k cases on the 21st of June.
Let's say the current 1m+ tests a day are only picking up 50% of cases. Does anyone expect 50k positive tests in 7 days time?
How are they not embarassed to go to print with this stuff?
https://twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1404525333316001798
Final dotted line is June 21st unlocking date, and Warwick model is at 100k. Cuckoo.
Page 10.
Quite hard to see at this resolution but they seem to have deaths back up to the April 21st level by June 21st, so that would be around 140 a week from current 60.0 -
Last summer/11 months ago.
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I have a feeling that Ukraine are going to discover that joining NATO is a bit like buying insurance. The time to get it is well before you crash the car or need expensive surgery. And before the Russians have annexed a good chunk of your country and parked their tanks on your lawn.stodge said:Evening all
I have to say the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO scares me more than the prospect of Johnson being PM for 30 years.
I'm also curious - many of those bemoaning the extension of the State now had no issue with the extension of State control after each and every terrorist outrage from the 60s onward.
There would be calls for more security, more surveillance, more powers for the security State as though every outrage compelled a response - it as that self-confessed Liberal Roy Jenkins who pushed through the Prevention of Terrorism Act in 1974.
In many ways, the coronavirus is a terrorist attack (even more so if you sign up to some theories about its origin) and as such it has been used to massively extend State power over our lives.
Anything is justifiable and supported if you instil enough fear - make people frightened enough and they'll sign away their most basic rights.
To be blunt, if all a Government has is fear to hold its support, its moral and political bankruptcy is evident. It is saved however by the timidity of its main opposition which perhaps suggests the moral and political bankruptcy has spread much further.
Finland, Sweden and Ireland among others might like to contemplate the issue sooner rather than later.
Indeed a fascinating question for a PB (and wider) discussion is: Does anything prevent Russia occupying Ireland (RoI) and if so what? What would the UK, USA, EU (and their infinity of brigades) and NATO response be? And if it happened, would we be able so send sausage rolls to Belfast, Tipperary, both or neither?
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The ONS picks up everything with random sampling. It would need a doubling rate of every 2 days from a quick calculation to get anywhere near 100k per day. None of the indicators show anything like that. The daily cases are showing a doubling period of about 13 days right now and the real time data from Professor Tim Spector shows symptomatic COVID growing at about 2% per day or around a 35 day doubling time.RobD said:
It would be more interesting to look at the hospital admissions data on the second row, as those can more easily be tested. I could imagine testing picking up far less than 50%, especially as more and more infections become asymptomatic.maaarsh said:
Relevant plot in the image embedded in this tweet -RobD said:
That does seem unlikely. Do you have a link to the model?maaarsh said:The Warwick model details released this evening say they expect 100k cases on the 21st of June.
Let's say the current 1m+ tests a day are only picking up 50% of cases. Does anyone expect 50k positive tests in 7 days time?
How are they not embarassed to go to print with this stuff?
https://twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1404525333316001798
Final dotted line is June 21st unlocking date, and Warwick model is at 100k. Cuckoo.
It's laughable and this model is included in the decision making process. It should be dismissed out of hand as ridiculous and yet serious scientists are presenting it as credible.3 -
What about Jonathan “My mate in Hong Kong (chuckle) said masks were worse than useless” Van Tam.Leon said:
There must be trials at the end of this. And I would put the scientists in the dock, first. Before the politiciansMaxPB said:
It's a joke. These are the data models driving the decision making process. I don't understand how these scientists haven't been disowned. It's complete garbage.maaarsh said:The Warwick model details released this evening say they expect 100k cases on the 21st of June.
Let's say the current 1m+ tests a day are only picking up 50% of cases. Does anyone expect 50k positive tests in 7 days time?
How are they not embarassed to go to print with this stuff?
From Anthony "gain of function" Fauci to Richard "no conflict of interest" Horton, from Peter "we didn't have any bats!" Daszak, to all the fucked up academic modellers and nutters, right down to Susan "hey I'm a commie!" Michie, who wants us locked down forever
This cannot stand. They must be judged. And if they are found wanting, they must pay0 -
Oh God, him too. DefinitelyGardenwalker said:
What about Jonathan “My mate in Hong Kong (chuckle) said masks were worse than useless” Van Tam.Leon said:
There must be trials at the end of this. And I would put the scientists in the dock, first. Before the politiciansMaxPB said:
It's a joke. These are the data models driving the decision making process. I don't understand how these scientists haven't been disowned. It's complete garbage.maaarsh said:The Warwick model details released this evening say they expect 100k cases on the 21st of June.
Let's say the current 1m+ tests a day are only picking up 50% of cases. Does anyone expect 50k positive tests in 7 days time?
How are they not embarassed to go to print with this stuff?
From Anthony "gain of function" Fauci to Richard "no conflict of interest" Horton, from Peter "we didn't have any bats!" Daszak, to all the fucked up academic modellers and nutters, right down to Susan "hey I'm a commie!" Michie, who wants us locked down forever
This cannot stand. They must be judged. And if they are found wanting, they must pay0 -
There's a lot of other sport coming up - I see Wimbledon and Euro 2020 semi-finals are being singled out for "special" treatment.RobD said:
No, the wording in the tweet is different:
Wimbledon tennis finals to be played with capacity crowds http://dlvr.it/S1k0QK
How about horse racing - we've got 12,000 each day at Ascot this week (20% of capacity) but what about giving the smaller courses a chance by increasing the numbers who can attend?
The arch-populist Dowden seems more interested in a soundbite than any reasoned argument on sport - horse racing is one of the most "outdoor focussed" of events.
As for Wimbledon, if they have to close the roof because of the weather, won't that make it an "indoor" event?0 -
There's lots of different cold viruses. Some of them are coronaviruses.RobD said:
Aren’t the symptoms very similar to the other coronavirus variants? Which are definitely different from the cold.another_richard said:Given that the symptoms of delta variant resemble having a cold am I the only one to wonder what the cold virus originated as ?
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I assume because there won’t be any more games after the final. Except of course there will - the premier league is back in august...Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea why @Scott_xP thinks it is a nonsense, sensible ideaRobD said:
Why can't they be treated as pilots?Scott_xP said:How the flaming blazes can the finals be treated as "pilots" - makes total nonsense of tonight's announcement https://twitter.com/CityAM/status/1404531118838194177
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