Best-case scenario: Cases plateau, stage 4 is activated, last covid legal restrictions are annulled.
Worst-case scenario: Cases continue to increase (is this likely given what we have seen in Bolton, and with more vaccinations?) Or that variant of the Delta variant with the extra immune-escape mutation picks up. The twilight zone continues indefinitely.
Either way, I wish someone would nail Boris Johnson for failing to slow down the arrival of Delta from India. Huge, obvious failure.
The thing that worries me is the start of university year in September/October.
Incidentally, the government continue to screw up in epic fashion over amateur choral singing.
It has now been confirmed that any choir that charges admission to its concerts is under the guidelines a professional choir.
Which is nearly all of them, apart from church choirs where the guidance didn’t apply anyway.
So actually, they have issued guidelines for a non-existent activity and caused a great deal of hassle along the way.
The DDCMS and Oliver Dowden appear to exist for one reason only - to make Gavin Williamson and the DfE look almost competent.
Do you have a link? I am trying to figure out whether it is possible to restart my amateur choir. Rehearsal venues look to be the main problem. I've been asked to sing in several pro concerts that were due to happen soon, but they didn't have any rehearsal other than on the day. (My voice is in bad shape, so I declined!)
Edit - remember, these were only ever guidelines. Not laws. If insurers will cover your rehearsals as long as the correct risk assessment is completed and people are adequately spaced, I honestly can’t see why you shouldn’t go ahead with concert rehearsals.
Best-case scenario: Cases plateau, stage 4 is activated, last covid legal restrictions are annulled.
Worst-case scenario: Cases continue to increase (is this likely given what we have seen in Bolton, and with more vaccinations?) Or that variant of the Delta variant with the extra immune-escape mutation picks up. The twilight zone continues indefinitely.
Either way, I wish someone would nail Boris Johnson for failing to slow down the arrival of Delta from India. Huge, obvious failure.
Not holding my breath that Keir Starmer will hold him to account for it.
Best-case scenario: Cases plateau, stage 4 is activated, last covid legal restrictions are annulled.
Worst-case scenario: Cases continue to increase (is this likely given what we have seen in Bolton, and with more vaccinations?) Or that variant of the Delta variant with the extra immune-escape mutation picks up. The twilight zone continues indefinitely.
Either way, I wish someone would nail Boris Johnson for failing to slow down the arrival of Delta from India. Huge, obvious failure.
The thing that worries me is the start of university year in September/October.
Although the wedding guests limit will be lifted provided social distancing can be maintained from June 21st, dancing at the reception will remain banned
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
This is not now about protecting oldies. It's about protecting the as-yet unvaccinated (and the NHS from overload, again).
That's completely fucking useless without context though, how many of those are unvaxxed by choice? What does 4 weeks buy us if they are vaccine refusers. They aren't going to suddenly take the vaccine.
Is this the bit where it's revealed you've been chatting shite on here for weeks/months?
Fuck off. Honestly, if you want to stay locked in your house for the rest of you natural life do it. People like you are ruining this country. You're destroying the life chances of millions of under 30s and thousands of businesses with your permanent lockdown attitude. Busy body wanker.
Crack a beer max, blaze one if you have any. And starting tomorrow, ignore any rule you can.
Best-case scenario: Cases plateau, stage 4 is activated, last covid legal restrictions are annulled.
Worst-case scenario: Cases continue to increase (is this likely given what we have seen in Bolton, and with more vaccinations?) Or that variant of the Delta variant with the extra immune-escape mutation picks up. The twilight zone continues indefinitely.
Either way, I wish someone would nail Boris Johnson for failing to slow down the arrival of Delta from India. Huge, obvious failure.
The thing that worries me is the start of university year in September/October.
I know plenty of older people who have been vaxxed but are wary of a full reopening as it would increase their chances of running into people like you who have chosen not to get vaccinated. Wake up. It’s your f****** fault as much as anyone’s. Unless you have been vaccinated, in my book you lose any right whatsoever to criticise the government for keeping restrictions. And I say this as someone who is sitting here livid with what the government is doing and has written (again) to my MP imploring him to vote against the government.
They can ensure the risk is zero by staying in their homes, social distancing and wearing masks or ensuring they only meet people outside their bubble in the open air. That's their choice.
Well I’ll tell you what I’d do instead. Id have the army pin you down at gunpoint with a needle. And if necessary inject you with AZN into your eyeball. Because while there’s a big body of unvaccinated people out there who are vulnerable to hospitalisation from covid, normal service will not resume in the healthcare sector. If you don’t like it, you’ve got a month to find somewhere else to call home.
FFS Moonshine many other governments are unlocking with much lower levels of vaccination. Its almost like NOT being vaccinated is more a guarantee of freedom that being vaccinated.
It is our government that is devaluing your vaccination currency, not me.
The BMA said this morning no other Country in Europe was unlocking or near to
"Museums, theaters, cinemas and a wide range of other venues can reopen across The Netherlands from June 5, Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced late Friday.
"This is actually the end of the lockdown," he told a news conference.
Restaurants will be allowed to offer indoor dining again and opening hours can be extended until 10pm. The Dutch will also be allowed to invite up to four people to their homes instead of two.
However, employees should still go to workplaces as little as possible, for the time being. "We're not there yet," Rutte cautioned.
A strict lockdown has been in place since mid-December.
Rutte predicted the vaccination campaign will bring more improvements , although the summer will not yet be "completely normal." The government is still warning that travelling entails risks.
If the number of infections and hospitalizations continue to move in the right direction, more restrictions will be relaxed from June 30, Rutte added.
Citizens will then be allowed to host up to eight people in their homes and restaurants and bars will be permitted to stay open until midnight."
It does seem that we're frequently describing our own remaining restrictions as "lockdown" whilst other countries continuing to follow remaining restrictions are "out of lockdown"
I think the term has been hopelessly eroded. I mean, I went to the cinema weeks ago. I've eaten out in restaurants indoors and gone to pubs frequently. And been able to go indoors with more than four people.
A good point. Lockdown = the Stay At Home order plus most things closed.
Anybody describing this current scenario here as us being "locked down", I just switch off and disregard the rest of the comment.
I agree. But I think that "lockdown" is sometimes used lazily to mean government constraints.
Yes, that's true. But I more meant the actual exact phrase that we are "locked down". That's a teeth grinder for me.
Anyway, look, your "set a precedent" concern. I think not - but if July 19th doesn't happen, as stated earlier, I'll be decamping to your side of the argument, because it would mean the calculus between liberty and security has been warped. That's not the case right now imo. This delay has just enough rationale for me (albeit I'm disappointed about it).
And for you and the other posters on here saying "Oh fuck, this is going on forever, the scientists have got us by the balls and won't let go", I have an offer. I think you're all overwrought and wrong. So I'll give EVENS - a straight 50/50 - on July 19th being delayed. If that's what you think is going to happen - Rook, Max, Leon, Rotten, Cycle, Noneof, all you guys - it's got to be the bet of the century.
So hit me!
Nightclubs allowed to open at full capacity without social distancing on the 20th July?
Whatever step 4 is currently defined as.
Its vague and not bet-able imo, its just a hope, that will not be met. I can certainly foresee him removing some restrictions and claiming to have done step 4 but not remove all legal restrictions.
"Social contact By Step 4 which will take place no earlier than 21 June, the government hopes to be in a position to remove all legal limits on social contact.
Business, activities and events We hope to reopen remaining premises, including nightclubs, and ease the restrictions on large events and performances that apply in Step 3. This will be subject to the results of a scientific Events Research Programme to test the outcome of certain pilot events through the spring and summer, where we will trial the use of testing and other techniques to cut the risk of infection. The same Events Research Programme will guide decisions on whether all limits can be removed on weddings and other life events."
Would have been interesting to see how $markets would have settled it this time if it'd been at all debatable.
Looking at the wording I would say step 4 does mean nightclubs without legal social distancing.
One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
This is not now about protecting oldies. It's about protecting the as-yet unvaccinated (and the NHS from overload, again).
That's completely fucking useless without context though, how many of those are unvaxxed by choice? What does 4 weeks buy us if they are vaccine refusers. They aren't going to suddenly take the vaccine.
Why do you seem so convinced that the increase in the 18-54 group is down to the older members of that group who have refused vaccination? We haven’t seen that in the older groups, and we know that the increase in cases is overwhelmingly in younger people - who have never been invulnerable. We’ve had considerable numbers of younger people hospitalised before; why would they not be hospitalised now? They’re significantly less likely to be hospitalised, but that’s not the same as “will not be hospitalised”.
The reduction in the ratio of hospitalisations to cases and the spiralling cases in the youngest adults is exactly what we’d see if they were the primary source of the hospitalisations. Given that the majority of cases is in the under-54s now (unlike before), unless vaccine refusal is hugely different between 45-55 and 55-65, it seems to be the more unlikely option that they’re all antivaxxers.
Andy for the past 15 months there was a small number of young people being hospitalised and almost none dying.
Why is this changing? Delta?
The PHE data confirms that anti vax tendency is startlingly higher in 45-55 than 55-65. For example using ONS, 45-49 have uptake of 84.4% and 60-64 have 99.5%.
There’s unlikely to be too much to a timing lag at this point for 45-49 year olds, uptake only increased by 0.6% in the past week.
… we have age 35-49 going from 68.3% to 76.2% to 84.8% in three weeks for first doses, with the latter being the most recent data. So, yes, that does look like timing lag and does not hint at a massive vax refusal difference.
Are you just going to ignore the week on week data I quoted for 45-49 year olds?
Best-case scenario: Cases plateau, stage 4 is activated, last covid legal restrictions are annulled.
Worst-case scenario: Cases continue to increase (is this likely given what we have seen in Bolton, and with more vaccinations?) Or that variant of the Delta variant with the extra immune-escape mutation picks up. The twilight zone continues indefinitely.
Either way, I wish someone would nail Boris Johnson for failing to slow down the arrival of Delta from India. Huge, obvious failure.
Best case sinario, is for cases to peek, probably next week and then fall.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
Tory policy voted for repeatedly. Again, suck it up, you get what you vote for.
Best-case scenario: Cases plateau, stage 4 is activated, last covid legal restrictions are annulled.
Worst-case scenario: Cases continue to increase (is this likely given what we have seen in Bolton, and with more vaccinations?) Or that variant of the Delta variant with the extra immune-escape mutation picks up. The twilight zone continues indefinitely.
Either way, I wish someone would nail Boris Johnson for failing to slow down the arrival of Delta from India. Huge, obvious failure.
"It is just flipping unbelievable. He is a mixture of Harry Houdini and a greased piglet. He is barely human in his elusiveness. Nailing Blair Boris is like trying to pin jelly to a wall!"
One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
This is not now about protecting oldies. It's about protecting the as-yet unvaccinated (and the NHS from overload, again).
That's completely fucking useless without context though, how many of those are unvaxxed by choice? What does 4 weeks buy us if they are vaccine refusers. They aren't going to suddenly take the vaccine.
Why do you seem so convinced that the increase in the 18-54 group is down to the older members of that group who have refused vaccination? We haven’t seen that in the older groups, and we know that the increase in cases is overwhelmingly in younger people - who have never been invulnerable. We’ve had considerable numbers of younger people hospitalised before; why would they not be hospitalised now? They’re significantly less likely to be hospitalised, but that’s not the same as “will not be hospitalised”.
The reduction in the ratio of hospitalisations to cases and the spiralling cases in the youngest adults is exactly what we’d see if they were the primary source of the hospitalisations. Given that the majority of cases is in the under-54s now (unlike before), unless vaccine refusal is hugely different between 45-55 and 55-65, it seems to be the more unlikely option that they’re all antivaxxers.
Andy for the past 15 months there was a small number of young people being hospitalised and almost none dying.
Why is this changing? Delta?
The PHE data confirms that anti vax tendency is startlingly higher in 45-55 than 55-65. For example using ONS, 45-49 have uptake of 84.4% and 60-64 have 99.5%.
There’s unlikely to be too much to a timing lag at this point for 45-49 year olds, uptake only increased by 0.6% in the past week.
… we have age 35-49 going from 68.3% to 76.2% to 84.8% in three weeks for first doses, with the latter being the most recent data. So, yes, that does look like timing lag and does not hint at a massive vax refusal difference.
Are you just going to ignore the week on week data I quoted for 45-49 year olds?
Where was that from? I did look, but the ONS data I found was as I quoted (and provided a link directly to)
Incidentally, the government continue to screw up in epic fashion over amateur choral singing.
It has now been confirmed that any choir that charges admission to its concerts is under the guidelines a professional choir.
Which is nearly all of them, apart from church choirs where the guidance didn’t apply anyway.
So actually, they have issued guidelines for a non-existent activity and caused a great deal of hassle along the way.
The DDCMS and Oliver Dowden appear to exist for one reason only - to make Gavin Williamson and the DfE look almost competent.
Do you have a link? I am trying to figure out whether it is possible to restart my amateur choir. Rehearsal venues look to be the main problem. I've been asked to sing in several pro concerts that were due to happen soon, but they didn't have any rehearsal other than on the day. (My voice is in bad shape, so I declined!)
Edit - remember, these were only ever guidelines. Not laws. If insurers will cover your rehearsals as long as the correct risk assessment is completed and people are adequately spaced, I honestly can’t see why you shouldn’t go ahead with concert rehearsals.
Thanks. Much to absorb there. I think persuading a local venue that we are permitted to rehearse is going to be tough, as they seem very risk averse just now. They were flat-out refusing bookings a while back.
I wonder whether the pro concerts I was invited to sing in on the 26th and 27th are going ahead at all. I heard that their tickets were not selling very well...
I fear that musical organizations will never be the same after COVID. Few will go bust, but many will lose a lot of members.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
Horrific.
My poor daughter is distraught. And yet she can hold her head up high. She didn't walk by on the other side.
Reminder to those saying 'this doesn't affect people much', it is currently ILLEGAL to have a dinner party for 7 people, in YOUR OWN HOME.
Outrageous state overreach. We must NEVER allow this to happen again.
Indeed. And house parties - also illegal.
What people really mean is “the rules don’t affect me”.
What people mean is that given that I spend all day every day on PB I'm happy to be kept at home indefinitely.
Meanwhile normal people are having to work out permutations of who can and can't meet at large family gatherings.
This is a really whiney, first world whinge but.. I've had 2 good mates retire from the job after 30 years in February and they had to leave with barely a whimper. No retirement do. No weekend away doing something silly like mountain biking in Spain or firing assault rifles in Eastern Europe. Not even a beer around town followed by a curry. I've got weddings to attend in July and August. 3 other mates retire in July. I'm jacking it in later on in the year and wonder if I'll have to just slink off into the twilight. It's nothing to what some people have suffered but it matters. People are missing out on once in a lifetime events. And that's just us old uns who have been jabbed twice. The poor kids who have lost out on 18 months of partying must feel seriously rebellious.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
Best-case scenario: Cases plateau, stage 4 is activated, last covid legal restrictions are annulled.
Worst-case scenario: Cases continue to increase (is this likely given what we have seen in Bolton, and with more vaccinations?) Or that variant of the Delta variant with the extra immune-escape mutation picks up. The twilight zone continues indefinitely.
Either way, I wish someone would nail Boris Johnson for failing to slow down the arrival of Delta from India. Huge, obvious failure.
The thing that worries me is the start of university year in September/October.
We know what happened last year.
Uni students all double vaxxed by then.
You'd hope so, but when does that mean the first jab has to be done by? Second dose + 2 weeks by October 1 means second dose in mid-September. With an 8 week gap, that's a first dose by mid-July. Possible but tight. And I suspect many courses start in September...
Like a lot of Covid stuff, success here depends on anticipation. And BoJo struggles to see further than six inches ahead of his bellybutton.
Reminder to those saying 'this doesn't affect people much', it is currently ILLEGAL to have a dinner party for 7 people, in YOUR OWN HOME.
Outrageous state overreach. We must NEVER allow this to happen again.
Indeed. And house parties - also illegal.
What people really mean is “the rules don’t affect me”.
What people mean is that given that I spend all day every day on PB I'm happy to be kept at home indefinitely.
Meanwhile normal people are having to work out permutations of who can and can't meet at large family gatherings.
This is a really whiney, first world whinge but.. I've had 2 good mates retire from the job after 30 years in February and they had to leave with barely a whimper. No retirement do. No weekend away doing something silly like mountain biking in Spain or firing assault rifles in Eastern Europe. Not even a beer around town followed by a curry. I've got weddings to attend in July and August. 3 other mates retire in July. I'm jacking it in later on in the year and wonder if I'll have to just slink off into the twilight. It's nothing to what some people have suffered but it matters. People are missing out on once in a lifetime events. And that's just us old uns who have been jabbed twice. The poor kids who have lost out on 18 months of partying must feel seriously rebellious.
Really? If I'd been due to retire last year or this, I would have put it off for a year or two. Last year has still been tedious, but at least I've had work to keep me busy during the day.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
I was reading about Eritrea the other day. An absolutely terrible regime there. Fleeing that country must be the dream of almost all the population. It certainly puts most of our wibbles into context.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
Horrific.
It is horrific. People have been manipulated to hate refugees - they're all scroungers, they should claim asylum elsewhere etc etc. People have become absolutely cold and heartless - by means of Tory policy.
Reminder to those saying 'this doesn't affect people much', it is currently ILLEGAL to have a dinner party for 7 people, in YOUR OWN HOME.
Outrageous state overreach. We must NEVER allow this to happen again.
Indeed. And house parties - also illegal.
What people really mean is “the rules don’t affect me”.
What people mean is that given that I spend all day every day on PB I'm happy to be kept at home indefinitely.
Meanwhile normal people are having to work out permutations of who can and can't meet at large family gatherings.
This is a really whiney, first world whinge but.. I've had 2 good mates retire from the job after 30 years in February and they had to leave with barely a whimper. No retirement do. No weekend away doing something silly like mountain biking in Spain or firing assault rifles in Eastern Europe. Not even a beer around town followed by a curry. I've got weddings to attend in July and August. 3 other mates retire in July. I'm jacking it in later on in the year and wonder if I'll have to just slink off into the twilight. It's nothing to what some people have suffered but it matters. People are missing out on once in a lifetime events. And that's just us old uns who have been jabbed twice. The poor kids who have lost out on 18 months of partying must feel seriously rebellious.
Really? If I'd been due to retire last year or this, I would have put it off for a year or two. Last year has still been tedious, but at least I've had work to keep me busy during the day.
Reminder to those saying 'this doesn't affect people much', it is currently ILLEGAL to have a dinner party for 7 people, in YOUR OWN HOME.
Outrageous state overreach. We must NEVER allow this to happen again.
Indeed. And house parties - also illegal.
What people really mean is “the rules don’t affect me”.
What people mean is that given that I spend all day every day on PB I'm happy to be kept at home indefinitely.
Meanwhile normal people are having to work out permutations of who can and can't meet at large family gatherings.
This is a really whiney, first world whinge but.. I've had 2 good mates retire from the job after 30 years in February and they had to leave with barely a whimper. No retirement do. No weekend away doing something silly like mountain biking in Spain or firing assault rifles in Eastern Europe. Not even a beer around town followed by a curry. I've got weddings to attend in July and August. 3 other mates retire in July. I'm jacking it in later on in the year and wonder if I'll have to just slink off into the twilight. It's nothing to what some people have suffered but it matters. People are missing out on once in a lifetime events. And that's just us old uns who have been jabbed twice. The poor kids who have lost out on 18 months of partying must feel seriously rebellious.
Absolutely. But it's all ok as far as many on here are concerned.
Reminder to those saying 'this doesn't affect people much', it is currently ILLEGAL to have a dinner party for 7 people, in YOUR OWN HOME.
Outrageous state overreach. We must NEVER allow this to happen again.
Indeed. And house parties - also illegal.
What people really mean is “the rules don’t affect me”.
What people mean is that given that I spend all day every day on PB I'm happy to be kept at home indefinitely.
Meanwhile normal people are having to work out permutations of who can and can't meet at large family gatherings.
This is a really whiney, first world whinge but.. I've had 2 good mates retire from the job after 30 years in February and they had to leave with barely a whimper. No retirement do. No weekend away doing something silly like mountain biking in Spain or firing assault rifles in Eastern Europe. Not even a beer around town followed by a curry. I've got weddings to attend in July and August. 3 other mates retire in July. I'm jacking it in later on in the year and wonder if I'll have to just slink off into the twilight. It's nothing to what some people have suffered but it matters. People are missing out on once in a lifetime events. And that's just us old uns who have been jabbed twice. The poor kids who have lost out on 18 months of partying must feel seriously rebellious.
Really? If I'd been due to retire last year or this, I would have put it off for a year or two. Last year has still been tedious, but at least I've had work to keep me busy during the day.
30 years in the '92 FS scheme is the sweet spot.
So you would actually be worse off by continuing to work, including the extra year (or whatever) salary?
'If you don't get vaccinated as soon as possible then you're going to die, we're not going lockdown for you antivaxxer fuckers again after the 19th of July,'
To which I would add, like Leon, that they should say to everyone else: your vaccine passport is your price for everything else in your life being free.
It's a very very small price to pay.
Bollocks.
Just let people live their lives. I don't need a nanny state scanning a QR code telling me how to live my life, just lift lockdown and let us choose.
A vaxport allows you to do all of that. You sacrifice one freedom, allowing HMG to know where you are, in return for so many more freedoms, and a liberated economy. Everything could open up to the vaxporters. Theeatres, clubs, bars where you can stand!
Israel did it, and we all admired how well they deconfined. We have to copy. It's the same as ID cards in the war. We got rid of them after the war (eventually)
I wouldn't mind vaccine passports as long as paper certificates were allowed as well as apps, because some of us don't entirely trust electronic methods of tracking people.
Why not just make them voluntary, FFS?
If you want a vaxport here it is. Take it. If bars and clubs and theatres want to open up, on the basis they only accept vaxport holders, that’s up to them. Everyone is free to choose. Many will say YES
Suddenly loads more places open up, the economy recovers quicker, millions get their usual lives back. Plus there is now huge pressure on the antivaxxers. Get vaxed or you can’t have the vaxport. Tough shit
Win win for everyone
How hard is this?
Domestic vaxports aren't not happening because of liberty. It's because it's too much faff for us to implement a regime like that.
Utterly pathetic. We built a vaccine and a vaccine industry from scratch in 9 months. We can offer a QR code and/or a piece of card to anyone that wants it
I already HAVE my proven vax status stored on my iPhone, in the NHS app. It’s already there: use it
The biosecurity state is the path to hell. Once the floodgates open, there will be endless mission creep. The best solution is to restore the freedom that we had.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
Tory policy voted for repeatedly. Again, suck it up, you get what you vote for.
I think it was Alan Johnston that first used the phrase. I really don't see any evidence that a Labour party would do differently. It was really got going by May under a Coalition government and the legislation to bring it into force was voted for by the Lib Dems.
Basically, we don't give a shit what happens to these people. It is shameful.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
That's a terrible, tragic story but... well... he WAS an economic refugee, wasn't he? You say exactly that:
"His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job."
He should never have been sent by his village, they presumably paid the money to the people traffickers, this isn't all on HMG
One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
This is not now about protecting oldies. It's about protecting the as-yet unvaccinated (and the NHS from overload, again).
That's completely fucking useless without context though, how many of those are unvaxxed by choice? What does 4 weeks buy us if they are vaccine refusers. They aren't going to suddenly take the vaccine.
Why do you seem so convinced that the increase in the 18-54 group is down to the older members of that group who have refused vaccination? We haven’t seen that in the older groups, and we know that the increase in cases is overwhelmingly in younger people - who have never been invulnerable. We’ve had considerable numbers of younger people hospitalised before; why would they not be hospitalised now? They’re significantly less likely to be hospitalised, but that’s not the same as “will not be hospitalised”.
The reduction in the ratio of hospitalisations to cases and the spiralling cases in the youngest adults is exactly what we’d see if they were the primary source of the hospitalisations. Given that the majority of cases is in the under-54s now (unlike before), unless vaccine refusal is hugely different between 45-55 and 55-65, it seems to be the more unlikely option that they’re all antivaxxers.
Andy for the past 15 months there was a small number of young people being hospitalised and almost none dying.
Why is this changing? Delta?
The PHE data confirms that anti vax tendency is startlingly higher in 45-55 than 55-65. For example using ONS, 45-49 have uptake of 84.4% and 60-64 have 99.5%.
There’s unlikely to be too much to a timing lag at this point for 45-49 year olds, uptake only increased by 0.6% in the past week.
… we have age 35-49 going from 68.3% to 76.2% to 84.8% in three weeks for first doses, with the latter being the most recent data. So, yes, that does look like timing lag and does not hint at a massive vax refusal difference.
Are you just going to ignore the week on week data I quoted for 45-49 year olds?
Where was that from? I did look, but the ONS data I found was as I quoted (and provided a link directly to)
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
Horrific.
It is horrific. People have been manipulated to hate refugees - they're all scroungers, they should claim asylum elsewhere etc etc. People have become absolutely cold and heartless - by means of Tory policy.
I was one of those who worked to set up opportunities for refugees from Uganda. When I look at Priti.....
And yes, I know her parents weren't technically part of that exodus; they saw the writing on the wall and left before it got really nasty.
Reminder to those saying 'this doesn't affect people much', it is currently ILLEGAL to have a dinner party for 7 people, in YOUR OWN HOME.
Outrageous state overreach. We must NEVER allow this to happen again.
Indeed. And house parties - also illegal.
What people really mean is “the rules don’t affect me”.
What people mean is that given that I spend all day every day on PB I'm happy to be kept at home indefinitely.
Meanwhile normal people are having to work out permutations of who can and can't meet at large family gatherings.
This is a really whiney, first world whinge but.. I've had 2 good mates retire from the job after 30 years in February and they had to leave with barely a whimper. No retirement do. No weekend away doing something silly like mountain biking in Spain or firing assault rifles in Eastern Europe. Not even a beer around town followed by a curry. I've got weddings to attend in July and August. 3 other mates retire in July. I'm jacking it in later on in the year and wonder if I'll have to just slink off into the twilight. It's nothing to what some people have suffered but it matters. People are missing out on once in a lifetime events. And that's just us old uns who have been jabbed twice. The poor kids who have lost out on 18 months of partying must feel seriously rebellious.
Absolutely. But it's all ok as far as many on here are concerned.
Going through a death in the family was hard due to these restrictions. (People can go to work on a building site but cannot attend a funeral?). Weddings being just small registry office jobs. The psychological damage is quite significant - I say this out of sympathy to twistedfirestopper.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
That's a terrible, tragic story but... well... he WAS an economic refugee, wasn't he? You say exactly that:
"His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job."
He should never have been sent by his village, they presumably paid the money to the people traffickers, this isn't all on HMG
Not saying it is. Yes, on the facts he does seem to have been an economic refugee. Here illegally. With the help of people smugglers.
But a 16 year old, having got here. Should we not have taken better care of him?
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
That's a terrible, tragic story but... well... he WAS an economic refugee, wasn't he? You say exactly that:
"His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job."
He should never have been sent by his village, they presumably paid the money to the people traffickers, this isn't all on HMG
Not saying it is. Yes, on the facts he does seem to have been an economic refugee. Here illegally. With the help of people smugglers.
But a 16 year old, having got here. Should we not have taken better care of him?
Of course. Of course. Of course. Can't say it too often.
Yep - called this one wrong. Did not expect Boris to extend.
Snap. Least not until a few days ago.
Yes, you were completely delusional. There's a very high chance Boris will blow it again, as well
July 19th: cases still going up, models say everyone will die if nightclubs open, stall for another four weeks, sorry
August 16th: almost time for the schools to open, new models say everyone will die after Plague spreads through them, now need to jab all the kids twice, stall for another four weeks, sorry
And after that the entire panoply of Autumn excuses comes into play and restrictions continue until April 2022, giving the mask psychopaths plenty of time to convince Johnson to make them permanent
Well, it might not happen like that - but after everything else that's gone wrong, and given the nature of Johnson and the lunatic half of SAGE, who'd be brave enough to profess certainty that it won't?
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
That's a terrible, tragic story but... well... he WAS an economic refugee, wasn't he? You say exactly that:
"His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job."
He should never have been sent by his village, they presumably paid the money to the people traffickers, this isn't all on HMG
Not saying it is. Yes, on the facts he does seem to have been an economic refugee. Here illegally. With the help of people smugglers.
But a 16 year old, having got here. Should we not have taken better care of him?
I honestly don't know. But we have these rules for a reason
The most humane immigration policy is Australia's. Don't bother coming illegally because you won't get in. And they mean it.
So boats no longer cross the Arafura Sea, and very few refugees drown off Australia's coast
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
Terrible story to hear, tragic loss of a young life. There but for the grace of god go any of us.
Reminder to those saying 'this doesn't affect people much', it is currently ILLEGAL to have a dinner party for 7 people, in YOUR OWN HOME.
Outrageous state overreach. We must NEVER allow this to happen again.
Indeed. And house parties - also illegal.
What people really mean is “the rules don’t affect me”.
What people mean is that given that I spend all day every day on PB I'm happy to be kept at home indefinitely.
Meanwhile normal people are having to work out permutations of who can and can't meet at large family gatherings.
This is a really whiney, first world whinge but.. I've had 2 good mates retire from the job after 30 years in February and they had to leave with barely a whimper. No retirement do. No weekend away doing something silly like mountain biking in Spain or firing assault rifles in Eastern Europe. Not even a beer around town followed by a curry. I've got weddings to attend in July and August. 3 other mates retire in July. I'm jacking it in later on in the year and wonder if I'll have to just slink off into the twilight. It's nothing to what some people have suffered but it matters. People are missing out on once in a lifetime events. And that's just us old uns who have been jabbed twice. The poor kids who have lost out on 18 months of partying must feel seriously rebellious.
Absolutely. But it's all ok as far as many on here are concerned.
Going through a death in the family was hard due to these restrictions. (People can go to work on a building site but cannot attend a funeral?). Weddings being just small registry office jobs. The psychological damage is quite significant - I say this out of sympathy to twistedfirestopper.
Again, absolutely. Anyone who thinks this is a physical health issue only with only that being taken account of is delusional
Reminder to those saying 'this doesn't affect people much', it is currently ILLEGAL to have a dinner party for 7 people, in YOUR OWN HOME.
Outrageous state overreach. We must NEVER allow this to happen again.
Indeed. And house parties - also illegal.
What people really mean is “the rules don’t affect me”.
What people mean is that given that I spend all day every day on PB I'm happy to be kept at home indefinitely.
Meanwhile normal people are having to work out permutations of who can and can't meet at large family gatherings.
This is a really whiney, first world whinge but.. I've had 2 good mates retire from the job after 30 years in February and they had to leave with barely a whimper. No retirement do. No weekend away doing something silly like mountain biking in Spain or firing assault rifles in Eastern Europe. Not even a beer around town followed by a curry. I've got weddings to attend in July and August. 3 other mates retire in July. I'm jacking it in later on in the year and wonder if I'll have to just slink off into the twilight. It's nothing to what some people have suffered but it matters. People are missing out on once in a lifetime events. And that's just us old uns who have been jabbed twice. The poor kids who have lost out on 18 months of partying must feel seriously rebellious.
Absolutely. But it's all ok as far as many on here are concerned.
Going through a death in the family was hard due to these restrictions. (People can go to work on a building site but cannot attend a funeral?). Weddings being just small registry office jobs. The psychological damage is quite significant - I say this out of sympathy to twistedfirestopper.
Again, absolutely. Anyone who thinks this is a physical health issue only with only that being taken account of is delusional
Fascinating article in the Guardian saying "extroverts have suffered more from lockdown"
As an extrovert who lives alone I can vouch for this. I've suffered a lot more than the quieter, more introverted members of my family/peer group.
I sometimes snap at them as they happily resign us all to 6 years more of social distancing. It's OK for you awkward geeks who don't have any fucking friends anyway, us alpha drunken types who like to live it up are SUFFERING. Seriously
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
Terrible story to hear, tragic loss of a young life. There but for the grace of god go any of us.
This may be an excess of caution, but it seems worth highlighting from the background documents released today:
"Future vaccine rollout follows a Cabinet Office agreed scenario with an average of 2.15 million doses per week in England until the 25th July 2021 and then 2 million doses per week thereafter. We assume that future second doses are delivered at most 8 weeks following equivalent first doses for individuals aged 50 and over, and assume a maximum of an 11 week dosing gap for individuals under 50 years old."
Yep - called this one wrong. Did not expect Boris to extend.
Snap. Least not until a few days ago.
Yes, you were completely delusional. There's a very high chance Boris will blow it again, as well
July 19th: cases still going up, models say everyone will die if nightclubs open, stall for another four weeks, sorry
August 16th: almost time for the schools to open, new models say everyone will die after Plague spreads through them, now need to jab all the kids twice, stall for another four weeks, sorry
And after that the entire panoply of Autumn excuses comes into play and restrictions continue until April 2022, giving the mask psychopaths plenty of time to convince Johnson to make them permanent
Well, it might not happen like that - but after everything else that's gone wrong, and given the nature of Johnson and the lunatic half of SAGE, who'd be brave enough to profess certainty that it won't?
At least now there’s the hope/possibility that if the models currently being presented are rather pessimistic then in four weeks there will be a clear case to overrule.
Dancing allowed (but not recommended) outdoors at weddings.
Nice loophole right there - clever venues will simply erect a marquee!
Lots of devil in the detail in the PM's wedding rules relaxation. Personal favourite is that a marquee only counts as an outdoor venue if it has two sides rolled up. Who thinks this stuff up? https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1404508337937469444
I'm willing to be convinced but I'm struggling to believe Delta is that potent.
Has it really evolved itself to be that more transmissible*and* that more aggressive?
It's the kind of behaviour you'd only expect from a virus that.... has been engineered in a really clever lab, to evolve into greater virulence and greater lethality, not like normal viruses, which evolve into milder bugs
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
I was reading about Eritrea the other day. An absolutely terrible regime there. Fleeing that country must be the dream of almost all the population. It certainly puts most of our wibbles into context.
There are other countries in between here and Eritrea, surely?
Reminder to those saying 'this doesn't affect people much', it is currently ILLEGAL to have a dinner party for 7 people, in YOUR OWN HOME.
Outrageous state overreach. We must NEVER allow this to happen again.
Indeed. And house parties - also illegal.
What people really mean is “the rules don’t affect me”.
What people mean is that given that I spend all day every day on PB I'm happy to be kept at home indefinitely.
Meanwhile normal people are having to work out permutations of who can and can't meet at large family gatherings.
This is a really whiney, first world whinge but.. I've had 2 good mates retire from the job after 30 years in February and they had to leave with barely a whimper. No retirement do. No weekend away doing something silly like mountain biking in Spain or firing assault rifles in Eastern Europe. Not even a beer around town followed by a curry. I've got weddings to attend in July and August. 3 other mates retire in July. I'm jacking it in later on in the year and wonder if I'll have to just slink off into the twilight. It's nothing to what some people have suffered but it matters. People are missing out on once in a lifetime events. And that's just us old uns who have been jabbed twice. The poor kids who have lost out on 18 months of partying must feel seriously rebellious.
Absolutely. But it's all ok as far as many on here are concerned.
Going through a death in the family was hard due to these restrictions. (People can go to work on a building site but cannot attend a funeral?). Weddings being just small registry office jobs. The psychological damage is quite significant - I say this out of sympathy to twistedfirestopper.
Again, absolutely. Anyone who thinks this is a physical health issue only with only that being taken account of is delusional
Fascinating article in the Guardian saying "extroverts have suffered more from lockdown"
As an extrovert who lives alone I can vouch for this. I've suffered a lot more than the quieter, more introverted members of my family/peer group.
I sometimes snap at them as they happily resign us all to 6 years more of social distancing. It's OK for you awkward geeks who don't have any fucking friends anyway, us alpha drunken types who like to live it up are SUFFERING. Seriously
I had you down as a Metropolitan, effete restaurant critic sort!
I'm willing to be convinced but I'm struggling to believe Delta is that potent.
Has it really evolved itself to be that more transmissible*and* that more aggressive?
It certainly keeps teasing a plateau for an apparently unstoppable exponentially growing outbreak. Cases reported at 7,600 6 days in a row now, +/- 600.
Cases by date of test 7,500, +/- 500 for all 5 days last week Monday - Friday.
If we're really supposed to believe it's growing at 50% plus a week, why isn't it showing up over a 5 or 6 day scale. And why is it already declining in Bolton & Blackburn.
Are there really going to be Wedding Dancing Police going round England locking up people for jigging to music during a Wedding Reception? Like the Purity Police of the Taliban, flogging musicians or men without beards
Preposterous. If you allow weddings, let people dance. Stupid fucks
One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
This is not now about protecting oldies. It's about protecting the as-yet unvaccinated (and the NHS from overload, again).
That's completely fucking useless without context though, how many of those are unvaxxed by choice? What does 4 weeks buy us if they are vaccine refusers. They aren't going to suddenly take the vaccine.
Why do you seem so convinced that the increase in the 18-54 group is down to the older members of that group who have refused vaccination? We haven’t seen that in the older groups, and we know that the increase in cases is overwhelmingly in younger people - who have never been invulnerable. We’ve had considerable numbers of younger people hospitalised before; why would they not be hospitalised now? They’re significantly less likely to be hospitalised, but that’s not the same as “will not be hospitalised”.
The reduction in the ratio of hospitalisations to cases and the spiralling cases in the youngest adults is exactly what we’d see if they were the primary source of the hospitalisations. Given that the majority of cases is in the under-54s now (unlike before), unless vaccine refusal is hugely different between 45-55 and 55-65, it seems to be the more unlikely option that they’re all antivaxxers.
Andy for the past 15 months there was a small number of young people being hospitalised and almost none dying.
Why is this changing? Delta?
The PHE data confirms that anti vax tendency is startlingly higher in 45-55 than 55-65. For example using ONS, 45-49 have uptake of 84.4% and 60-64 have 99.5%.
There’s unlikely to be too much to a timing lag at this point for 45-49 year olds, uptake only increased by 0.6% in the past week.
… we have age 35-49 going from 68.3% to 76.2% to 84.8% in three weeks for first doses, with the latter being the most recent data. So, yes, that does look like timing lag and does not hint at a massive vax refusal difference.
Are you just going to ignore the week on week data I quoted for 45-49 year olds?
Where was that from? I did look, but the ONS data I found was as I quoted (and provided a link directly to)
PHE weekly dashboard
That heatmap looks very much like timing lag coupled with reduction in first dose rates.
Dancing allowed (but not recommended) outdoors at weddings.
Nice loophole right there - clever venues will simply erect a marquee!
Lots of devil in the detail in the PM's wedding rules relaxation. Personal favourite is that a marquee only counts as an outdoor venue if it has two sides rolled up. Who thinks this stuff up? https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1404508337937469444
Presumably the saw logic as what constitutes outdoors for smoking, i.e. <50% of the surrounding is closed off.
Need some way of differentiating indoors from outdoors, having a marque with all walls sealed off would be no different to being inside a pub given the lack of ventilation.
Me thinking about rebooking my vaccine slot...knowing last time second option was 2hrs drive away...
The security of a 2nd jab, raising your protection against serious illness/death from ~30-50% to circa 95% is well worth a 2 hour drive
Looks like as usual the NHS booking system gets updated way before the announcement. Went on, and a load of slots 8 weeks to the day after my first and there are many more options than either when I booked first time or when I tried to rebook 2 weeks ago.
For all the mistakes / incompetence of the government, especially anything normally to do with IT, the online system has worked brilliantly and they consistently and silently get ahead of the game.
Are there really going to be Wedding Dancing Police going round England locking up people for jigging to music during a Wedding Reception? Like the Purity Police of the Taliban, flogging musicians or men without beards
Preposterous. If you allow weddings, let people dance. Stupid fucks
It'll be the venue operators. Try paying £15k to a country house hotel and then being told it's this or you lose your money. They you turn up and try to have fun, and the operator is scared shitless of being dobbed in so plays the Gestapo for Sage.
Dancing allowed (but not recommended) outdoors at weddings.
Nice loophole right there - clever venues will simply erect a marquee!
Lots of devil in the detail in the PM's wedding rules relaxation. Personal favourite is that a marquee only counts as an outdoor venue if it has two sides rolled up. Who thinks this stuff up? https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1404508337937469444
That actually seems quite sensible. What do they think is wrong with it?
Dancing allowed (but not recommended) outdoors at weddings.
Nice loophole right there - clever venues will simply erect a marquee!
Lots of devil in the detail in the PM's wedding rules relaxation. Personal favourite is that a marquee only counts as an outdoor venue if it has two sides rolled up. Who thinks this stuff up? https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1404508337937469444
So people who don't have a nice house, have scrimped and saved and have booked a hotel are fucked while those who can put up a marquee on their lawn or in one of the paddocks are fine!
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
That's a terrible, tragic story but... well... he WAS an economic refugee, wasn't he? You say exactly that:
"His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job."
He should never have been sent by his village, they presumably paid the money to the people traffickers, this isn't all on HMG
Yes, the tragedy is the source - very unstable poor countries that have terrible governance so everyone wants to leave.
Clearly, it's not feasible for the West to take them all in, so the problem needs to be addressed at source.
This is where international aid could help but the Government is poor at making the link.
Dancing allowed (but not recommended) outdoors at weddings.
Nice loophole right there - clever venues will simply erect a marquee!
Lots of devil in the detail in the PM's wedding rules relaxation. Personal favourite is that a marquee only counts as an outdoor venue if it has two sides rolled up. Who thinks this stuff up? https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1404508337937469444
Are there really going to be Wedding Dancing Police going round England locking up people for jigging to music during a Wedding Reception? Like the Purity Police of the Taliban, flogging musicians or men without beards
Preposterous. If you allow weddings, let people dance. Stupid fucks
It would be terribly... awkward... if a high-profile member of the government had just got married and dancing had occurred at the celebrations. Even if no rules had actually been broken.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
I was reading about Eritrea the other day. An absolutely terrible regime there. Fleeing that country must be the dream of almost all the population. It certainly puts most of our wibbles into context.
There are other countries in between here and Eritrea, surely?
I'm willing to be convinced but I'm struggling to believe Delta is that potent.
Has it really evolved itself to be that more transmissible*and* that more aggressive?
It's the kind of behaviour you'd only expect from a virus that.... has been engineered in a really clever lab, to evolve into greater virulence and greater lethality, not like normal viruses, which evolve into milder bugs
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
Horrific.
It is horrific. People have been manipulated to hate refugees - they're all scroungers, they should claim asylum elsewhere etc etc. People have become absolutely cold and heartless - by means of Tory policy.
I was one of those who worked to set up opportunities for refugees from Uganda. When I look at Priti.....
And yes, I know her parents weren't technically part of that exodus; they saw the writing on the wall and left before it got really nasty.
This is just an intractable problem, and it must be awful having to deal with individual cases when something happens like this. However, you have to disassociate individual tragedies like this one from the broader political problem.
People are making these journeys on a completely false understanding. Much of the problem is rooted in the liberal policies of the early years of the new labour government, where people could achieve what the poor kid was trying to do. There was a very deliberate policy of turning a blind eye to economic migration.
However, such a process eventually reaches political limits, as happened in the mid 2000's. The policy of restricting immigration is ultimately the right one: unfortunately you have to stop people making the journeys and turn them back until they get the message that it is not happening.
Harsh as it is that is the only realistic way to deal with this issue, as I see it.
Are there really going to be Wedding Dancing Police going round England locking up people for jigging to music during a Wedding Reception? Like the Purity Police of the Taliban, flogging musicians or men without beards
Preposterous. If you allow weddings, let people dance. Stupid fucks
Yep - called this one wrong. Did not expect Boris to extend.
Snap. Least not until a few days ago.
Yes, you were completely delusional. There's a very high chance Boris will blow it again, as well
July 19th: cases still going up, models say everyone will die if nightclubs open, stall for another four weeks, sorry
August 16th: almost time for the schools to open, new models say everyone will die after Plague spreads through them, now need to jab all the kids twice, stall for another four weeks, sorry
And after that the entire panoply of Autumn excuses comes into play and restrictions continue until April 2022, giving the mask psychopaths plenty of time to convince Johnson to make them permanent
Well, it might not happen like that - but after everything else that's gone wrong, and given the nature of Johnson and the lunatic half of SAGE, who'd be brave enough to profess certainty that it won't?
At least now there’s the hope/possibility that if the models currently being presented are rather pessimistic then in four weeks there will be a clear case to overrule.
Well the charts released tonight show that SAGE thinks anything less than 500 hospital admissions per day in 2 weeks time would be a 1 in 20 level outlier. I'm sure they'll receive loads of scrutiny and Boris will rush to use his 2 week break clause if that turns out to be a load of shite... Anyone want to buy a bridge?
Dancing allowed (but not recommended) outdoors at weddings.
Nice loophole right there - clever venues will simply erect a marquee!
Lots of devil in the detail in the PM's wedding rules relaxation. Personal favourite is that a marquee only counts as an outdoor venue if it has two sides rolled up. Who thinks this stuff up? https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1404508337937469444
The problem is when they don't have this sort of detail, we have the likes of Kay Burley asking stupid what-ifs for 2hrs every morning...and saying the rules are unclear, imprecise and too confusing.
Me thinking about rebooking my vaccine slot...knowing last time second option was 2hrs drive away...
The security of a 2nd jab, raising your protection against serious illness/death from ~30-50% to circa 95% is well worth a 2 hour drive
Looks like as usual the NHS booking system gets updated way before the announcement. Went on, can get a slot 8 weeks to the day straight away and there are many more options than either when I booked first time or when I tried to rebook 2 weeks ago.
For all the mistakes / incompetence of the government, especially anything normally to do with IT, the online system has worked brilliantly and they consistently and silently get ahead of the game.
Indeed. My advice: take the first available "second jab", even if you have to drive.
My friend who skipped his 2nd jab due to hangover now really regrets it. He's gone back to living in terror as he looks at the data, and he waits impatiently for his rearranged injection
Me thinking about rebooking my vaccine slot...knowing last time second option was 2hrs drive away...
The security of a 2nd jab, raising your protection against serious illness/death from ~30-50% to circa 95% is well worth a 2 hour drive
Looks like as usual the NHS booking system gets updated way before the announcement. Went on, and a load of slots 8 weeks to the day after my first and there are many more options than either when I booked first time or when I tried to rebook 2 weeks ago.
For all the mistakes / incompetence of the government, especially anything normally to do with IT, the online system has worked brilliantly and they consistently and silently get ahead of the game.
Us under 40s presumably still have to wait 12 weeks...
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
That's a terrible, tragic story but... well... he WAS an economic refugee, wasn't he? You say exactly that:
"His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job."
He should never have been sent by his village, they presumably paid the money to the people traffickers, this isn't all on HMG
Not saying it is. Yes, on the facts he does seem to have been an economic refugee. Here illegally. With the help of people smugglers.
But a 16 year old, having got here. Should we not have taken better care of him?
This is why I think it's more humane for no illegal migrants to succeed in reaching these shores.
Sure, you'd have some extremely disappointed people first - who'd lost a lot of money they didn't have - but it would prevent future tragedies and traffic, and we could then focus on improving their countries and taking a generous proportion of genuine refugees at source.
"@JonLemire I just leaned over and asked Secretary of State Blinken -- also waiting for Biden -- if there was an update today on Ukraine joining NATO. He says no, "nothing has changed.""
Me thinking about rebooking my vaccine slot...knowing last time second option was 2hrs drive away...
The security of a 2nd jab, raising your protection against serious illness/death from ~30-50% to circa 95% is well worth a 2 hour drive
Looks like as usual the NHS booking system gets updated way before the announcement. Went on, can get a slot 8 weeks to the day straight away and there are many more options than either when I booked first time or when I tried to rebook 2 weeks ago.
For all the mistakes / incompetence of the government, especially anything normally to do with IT, the online system has worked brilliantly and they consistently and silently get ahead of the game.
Indeed. My advice: take the first available "second jab", even if you have to drive.
My friend who skipped his 2nd jab due to hangover now really regrets it. He's gone back to living in terror as he looks at the data, and he waits impatiently for his rearranged injection
Already done...Next Tuesday, I am going to burst through the door like Boris in a JCB....
If they become a member wile a part of there teritary is occupied, i.e. Crimean peninsular or the Dombas regen, then does that trigger anything? I assume not, but don't know
Yep - called this one wrong. Did not expect Boris to extend.
Snap. Least not until a few days ago.
Yes, you were completely delusional. There's a very high chance Boris will blow it again, as well
July 19th: cases still going up, models say everyone will die if nightclubs open, stall for another four weeks, sorry
August 16th: almost time for the schools to open, new models say everyone will die after Plague spreads through them, now need to jab all the kids twice, stall for another four weeks, sorry
And after that the entire panoply of Autumn excuses comes into play and restrictions continue until April 2022, giving the mask psychopaths plenty of time to convince Johnson to make them permanent
Well, it might not happen like that - but after everything else that's gone wrong, and given the nature of Johnson and the lunatic half of SAGE, who'd be brave enough to profess certainty that it won't?
At least now there’s the hope/possibility that if the models currently being presented are rather pessimistic then in four weeks there will be a clear case to overrule.
The problem with that argument is that, if things go unexpectedly well, the modellers will announce in triumph that it would've been a catastrophe if the Government hadn't followed their advice. They will then generate updated models that will show that catastrophe can only continue to be averted with yet more restrictions.
Are there really going to be Wedding Dancing Police going round England locking up people for jigging to music during a Wedding Reception? Like the Purity Police of the Taliban, flogging musicians or men without beards
Preposterous. If you allow weddings, let people dance. Stupid fucks
Maybe it could be the same police force that are going to hang around in bars, protecting women from inappropriate sexual advances?
"@JonLemire I just leaned over and asked Secretary of State Blinken -- also waiting for Biden -- if there was an update today on Ukraine joining NATO. He says no, "nothing has changed.""
Are there really going to be Wedding Dancing Police going round England locking up people for jigging to music during a Wedding Reception? Like the Purity Police of the Taliban, flogging musicians or men without beards
Preposterous. If you allow weddings, let people dance. Stupid fucks
It'll be the venue operators. Try paying £15k to a country house hotel and then being told it's this or you lose your money. They you turn up and try to have fun, and the operator is scared shitless of being dobbed in so plays the Gestapo for Sage.
I also don't quite understand it. I've just been to my gym: lots of people jiggling around indoors. Why is that OK and not dancing?
I can't help but suspect a hint of puritanism. Dancing is for evil pleasure! Exercise is sinless and good
Yep - called this one wrong. Did not expect Boris to extend.
Snap. Least not until a few days ago.
Yes, you were completely delusional. There's a very high chance Boris will blow it again, as well
July 19th: cases still going up, models say everyone will die if nightclubs open, stall for another four weeks, sorry
August 16th: almost time for the schools to open, new models say everyone will die after Plague spreads through them, now need to jab all the kids twice, stall for another four weeks, sorry
And after that the entire panoply of Autumn excuses comes into play and restrictions continue until April 2022, giving the mask psychopaths plenty of time to convince Johnson to make them permanent
Well, it might not happen like that - but after everything else that's gone wrong, and given the nature of Johnson and the lunatic half of SAGE, who'd be brave enough to profess certainty that it won't?
At least now there’s the hope/possibility that if the models currently being presented are rather pessimistic then in four weeks there will be a clear case to overrule.
The problem with that argument is that, if things go unexpectedly well, the modellers will announce in triumph that it would've been a catastrophe if the Government hadn't followed their advice. They will then generate updated models that will show that catastrophe can only continue to be averted with yet more restrictions.
Sadly you are right, but i will be paying close attention to the case numbers (by sample date) up to the original planed date 21 June,
Me thinking about rebooking my vaccine slot...knowing last time second option was 2hrs drive away...
The security of a 2nd jab, raising your protection against serious illness/death from ~30-50% to circa 95% is well worth a 2 hour drive
Looks like as usual the NHS booking system gets updated way before the announcement. Went on, and a load of slots 8 weeks to the day after my first and there are many more options than either when I booked first time or when I tried to rebook 2 weeks ago.
For all the mistakes / incompetence of the government, especially anything normally to do with IT, the online system has worked brilliantly and they consistently and silently get ahead of the game.
Us under 40s presumably still have to wait 12 weeks...
Back of the queue for you plebs...
I don't know. The one feature missing from the online system is the ability to view new potential dates without cancelling. I presume because when they set it up they didn't want to make it too easy for people to say oh I can't be bothered to go today, I have an Amazon delivery coming, I will see if I can shift it a few days.
Might be worth going on in the middle of the night, cancel and see, because then the chances anybody swipes your original slot is virtually zero.
I'm willing to be convinced but I'm struggling to believe Delta is that potent.
Has it really evolved itself to be that more transmissible*and* that more aggressive?
It's the kind of behaviour you'd only expect from a virus that.... has been engineered in a really clever lab, to evolve into greater virulence and greater lethality, not like normal viruses, which evolve into milder bugs
Absolutely. Or perhaps other worldly, right?
You can't design something to evolve in a particular direction. You can let it evolve, and passage it many times quickly to speed up evolution, and then apply selective pressure so that it evolves in a particular direction (e.g. by selectively killing those offspring that do not exhibit a desired trait, or strength of trait). But you cannot design it and then let it do its own thing knowing that 'its own thing' will be evolution in just the one direction you want.
Dancing allowed (but not recommended) outdoors at weddings.
Nice loophole right there - clever venues will simply erect a marquee!
Lots of devil in the detail in the PM's wedding rules relaxation. Personal favourite is that a marquee only counts as an outdoor venue if it has two sides rolled up. Who thinks this stuff up? https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1404508337937469444
So people who don't have a nice house, have scrimped and saved and have booked a hotel are fucked while those who can put up a marquee on their lawn or in one of the paddocks are fine!
Our son and his partner had a hotel booked for their reception, and prior to covid, but now they have rearranged it for the 31st July from last year the Hotel has no outside space and on request has cancelled the reception but kept the hefty deposit
They have a marquee that will accommodate the reduced guest list of 70, but as has been said two sides need to be open
Non of this is easy, but they are determined to get married and the Minister is being most helpful
I'm willing to be convinced but I'm struggling to believe Delta is that potent.
Has it really evolved itself to be that more transmissible*and* that more aggressive?
It certainly keeps teasing a plateau for an apparently unstoppable exponentially growing outbreak. Cases reported at 7,600 6 days in a row now, +/- 600.
Cases by date of test 7,500, +/- 500 for all 5 days last week Monday - Friday.
If we're really supposed to believe it's growing at 50% plus a week, why isn't it showing up over a 5 or 6 day scale. And why is it already declining in Bolton & Blackburn.
Andy and I raised this earlier. Andy’s was obviously a more detailed exposition but my back of a fag packet also made me raise an eyebrow.
I'm willing to be convinced but I'm struggling to believe Delta is that potent.
Has it really evolved itself to be that more transmissible*and* that more aggressive?
It certainly keeps teasing a plateau for an apparently unstoppable exponentially growing outbreak. Cases reported at 7,600 6 days in a row now, +/- 600.
Cases by date of test 7,500, +/- 500 for all 5 days last week Monday - Friday.
If we're really supposed to believe it's growing at 50% plus a week, why isn't it showing up over a 5 or 6 day scale. And why is it already declining in Bolton & Blackburn.
Andy and I raised this earlier. Andy’s was obviously a more detailed exposition but my back of a fag packet also made me raise an eyebrow.
It would be great to think that PHE study is bollocks and actually 1st dose is still really bloody effective.
If they become a member wile a part of there teritary is occupied, i.e. Crimean peninsular or the Dombas regen, then does that trigger anything? I assume not, but don't know
It triggers existing members not permitting them to join NATO.
Me thinking about rebooking my vaccine slot...knowing last time second option was 2hrs drive away...
The security of a 2nd jab, raising your protection against serious illness/death from ~30-50% to circa 95% is well worth a 2 hour drive
Looks like as usual the NHS booking system gets updated way before the announcement. Went on, and a load of slots 8 weeks to the day after my first and there are many more options than either when I booked first time or when I tried to rebook 2 weeks ago.
For all the mistakes / incompetence of the government, especially anything normally to do with IT, the online system has worked brilliantly and they consistently and silently get ahead of the game.
Us under 40s presumably still have to wait 12 weeks...
Back of the queue for you plebs...
I don't know. The one feature missing from the online system is the ability to view new potential dates without cancelling. I presume because when they set it up they didn't want to make it too easy for people to say oh I can't be bothered to go today, I have an Amazon delivery coming, I will see if I can shift it a few days.
Might be worth going on in the middle of the night, cancel and see, because then the chances anybody swipes your original slot is virtually zero.
That's the 2nd most valuable upgrade they could make, behind letting under 40s opt in to a quicker Az jab. I.e. actually following the guidance and getting this finished rather than gold plating.
Me thinking about rebooking my vaccine slot...knowing last time second option was 2hrs drive away...
The security of a 2nd jab, raising your protection against serious illness/death from ~30-50% to circa 95% is well worth a 2 hour drive
Looks like as usual the NHS booking system gets updated way before the announcement. Went on, can get a slot 8 weeks to the day straight away and there are many more options than either when I booked first time or when I tried to rebook 2 weeks ago.
For all the mistakes / incompetence of the government, especially anything normally to do with IT, the online system has worked brilliantly and they consistently and silently get ahead of the game.
Indeed. My advice: take the first available "second jab", even if you have to drive.
My friend who skipped his 2nd jab due to hangover now really regrets it. He's gone back to living in terror as he looks at the data, and he waits impatiently for his rearranged injection
Is it AZ? If he’s in London he’ll probably be able to rebook for tomorrow!
If I click "cancel and rebook appointment" is it guaranteed not to be cancelled unless I find a new appointment? Scared to click the button!
I think it is cancelled, as I got a text straight away saying its been binned, before I had clicked on a new appointment...but do it really late at night or early in the morning, when nobody is likely to be looking if you are worried.
My experience was that it seems like the backend has already been updated for this new guidance and I had loads of different options (which I didn't have 2 weeks ago, where it was you can have it at this time exactly 10 weeks after 1st and no earlier and if you don't want this one, you have to go 2hrs away).
Comments
We know what happened last year.
Edit - remember, these were only ever guidelines. Not laws. If insurers will cover your rehearsals as long as the correct risk assessment is completed and people are adequately spaced, I honestly can’t see why you shouldn’t go ahead with concert rehearsals.
Did not expect Boris to extend.
My daughter works for a charity helping refugees. One of the people she was helping was a boy from Eritrea. His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job.
Which he couldn't get because of course he was deemed an economic migrant even although he is from a dangeous shithole.
So, tonight, he has hanged himself unable to live with the pressure of having failed his village.
He was 16.
When people talk of hostile environments I want to vomit.
Looking at the wording I would say step 4 does mean nightclubs without legal social distancing.
https://twitter.com/jonnyehall/status/1404487116495757321?s=19
I wonder whether the pro concerts I was invited to sing in on the 26th and 27th are going ahead at all. I heard that their tickets were not selling very well...
I fear that musical organizations will never be the same after COVID. Few will go bust, but many will lose a lot of members.
--AS
Like a lot of Covid stuff, success here depends on anticipation. And BoJo struggles to see further than six inches ahead of his bellybutton.
Basically, we don't give a shit what happens to these people. It is shameful.
"His village had crowdfunded his (rather horrendous) journey here so that he could send money home once he had a job."
He should never have been sent by his village, they presumably paid the money to the people traffickers, this isn't all on HMG
And yes, I know her parents weren't technically part of that exodus; they saw the writing on the wall and left before it got really nasty.
But a 16 year old, having got here. Should we not have taken better care of him?
Nice loophole right there - clever venues will simply erect a marquee!
August 16th: almost time for the schools to open, new models say everyone will die after Plague spreads through them, now need to jab all the kids twice, stall for another four weeks, sorry
And after that the entire panoply of Autumn excuses comes into play and restrictions continue until April 2022, giving the mask psychopaths plenty of time to convince Johnson to make them permanent
Well, it might not happen like that - but after everything else that's gone wrong, and given the nature of Johnson and the lunatic half of SAGE, who'd be brave enough to profess certainty that it won't?
The most humane immigration policy is Australia's. Don't bother coming illegally because you won't get in. And they mean it.
So boats no longer cross the Arafura Sea, and very few refugees drown off Australia's coast
Why was he deemed an economic migrant ?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/14/extroverts-likely-suffer-higher-mental-health-toll-covid-lockdown
As an extrovert who lives alone I can vouch for this. I've suffered a lot more than the quieter, more introverted members of my family/peer group.
I sometimes snap at them as they happily resign us all to 6 years more of social distancing. It's OK for you awkward geeks who don't have any fucking friends anyway, us alpha drunken types who like to live it up are SUFFERING. Seriously
This would be seismic.
The Twitter account of the Ukrainian president announces the country will become a @NATO member. Official word not yet out.
https://twitter.com/edokeefe/status/1404516588980772879
Has it really evolved itself to be that more transmissible*and* that more aggressive?
"Future vaccine rollout follows a Cabinet Office agreed scenario with an average of 2.15 million doses per week in England until the 25th July 2021 and then 2 million doses per week thereafter. We assume that future second doses are delivered at most 8 weeks following equivalent first doses for individuals aged 50 and over, and assume a maximum of an 11 week dosing gap for individuals under 50 years old."
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/993361/S1290_LSHTM_Roadmap_Step_4.pdf
(page 12)
That's England, not UK, but no sign of an acceleration there...
Yarl’s Wood, used to detail women and children, and sub-contracted to Serco, has been a house of horrors.
How are Pfizer and Moderna getting on with those?
https://twitter.com/stand_for_all/status/1403704191722397696
Cases by date of test 7,500, +/- 500 for all 5 days last week Monday - Friday.
If we're really supposed to believe it's growing at 50% plus a week, why isn't it showing up over a 5 or 6 day scale. And why is it already declining in Bolton & Blackburn.
Preposterous. If you allow weddings, let people dance. Stupid fucks
Need some way of differentiating indoors from outdoors, having a marque with all walls sealed off would be no different to being inside a pub given the lack of ventilation.
For all the mistakes / incompetence of the government, especially anything normally to do with IT, the online system has worked brilliantly and they consistently and silently get ahead of the game.
Clearly, it's not feasible for the West to take them all in, so the problem needs to be addressed at source.
This is where international aid could help but the Government is poor at making the link.
C'mon Fleet Street. You're good at this.
People are making these journeys on a completely false understanding. Much of the problem is rooted in the liberal policies of the early years of the new labour government, where people could achieve what the poor kid was trying to do. There was a very deliberate policy of turning a blind eye to economic migration.
However, such a process eventually reaches political limits, as happened in the mid 2000's. The policy of restricting immigration is ultimately the right one: unfortunately you have to stop people making the journeys and turn them back until they get the message that it is not happening.
Harsh as it is that is the only realistic way to deal with this issue, as I see it.
My friend who skipped his 2nd jab due to hangover now really regrets it. He's gone back to living in terror as he looks at the data, and he waits impatiently for his rearranged injection
Sure, you'd have some extremely disappointed people first - who'd lost a lot of money they didn't have - but it would prevent future tragedies and traffic, and we could then focus on improving their countries and taking a generous proportion of genuine refugees at source.
Game on.
I just leaned over and asked Secretary of State Blinken -- also waiting for Biden -- if there was an update today on Ukraine joining NATO. He says no, "nothing has changed.""
https://twitter.com/JonLemire/status/1404520361849413642
I can't help but suspect a hint of puritanism. Dancing is for evil pleasure! Exercise is sinless and good
I don't know. The one feature missing from the online system is the ability to view new potential dates without cancelling. I presume because when they set it up they didn't want to make it too easy for people to say oh I can't be bothered to go today, I have an Amazon delivery coming, I will see if I can shift it a few days.
Might be worth going on in the middle of the night, cancel and see, because then the chances anybody swipes your original slot is virtually zero.
They have a marquee that will accommodate the reduced guest list of 70, but as has been said two sides need to be open
Non of this is easy, but they are determined to get married and the Minister is being most helpful
of a fag packet also made me raise an eyebrow.
My experience was that it seems like the backend has already been updated for this new guidance and I had loads of different options (which I didn't have 2 weeks ago, where it was you can have it at this time exactly 10 weeks after 1st and no earlier and if you don't want this one, you have to go 2hrs away).