Bring forward 2nd jabs for 40 and overs to 8 weeks?....does that include Moderna, concerned viewer of Middle England? Because I tried to rebook and couldn't get sooner than 10 weeks.
It is time to consider removing the vote from the over 60s.
Followed by compulsory purchase of their five bedroom (but empty) homes in the suburbs.
Remove the Stannah stairlifts and you’ve got room for a half dozen poverty stricken millennials.
The oldies have been at the trough for too long.
Pathetic. We should go the full Logan's run and eliminate everyone over the age of, checks calendar, say 65*. It would improve our Covid results massively, cut health spending in half and eliminate huge chunks of future liabilities for pensions.
* Anything under the age of 59 is looking a little drastic.
“A proportion of the elderly and vulnerable may succumb to the variant even if they’ve had two jabs.”
Project fear.
Not really, sadly. The Lancet report today says that AZ, two weeks after the second dose, is only 60% protective against the Delta variant, while Pfizer is 79% protective.
We need a tweaked variant for the winter, preferably from the Pfizer yeram.
And how long to we wait for that to be tested, approved and manufactured? Then what about the next variant?
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
I know plenty of older people who have been vaxxed but are wary of a full reopening as it would increase their chances of running into people like you who have chosen not to get vaccinated. Wake up. It’s your f****** fault as much as anyone’s. Unless you have been vaccinated, in my book you lose any right whatsoever to criticise the government for keeping restrictions. And I say this as someone who is sitting here livid with what the government is doing and has written (again) to my MP imploring him to vote against the government.
They can ensure the risk is zero by staying in their homes, social distancing and wearing masks or ensuring they only meet people outside their bubble in the open air. That's their choice.
Well I’ll tell you what I’d do instead. Id have the army pin you down at gunpoint with a needle. And if necessary inject you with AZN into your eyeball. Because while there’s a big body of unvaccinated people out there who are vulnerable to hospitalisation from covid, normal service will not resume in the healthcare sector. If you don’t like it, you’ve got a month to find somewhere else to call home.
FFS Moonshine many other governments are unlocking with much lower levels of vaccination. Its almost like NOT being vaccinated is more a guarantee of freedom that being vaccinated.
It is our government that is devaluing your vaccination currency, not me.
The BMA said this morning no other Country in Europe was unlocking or near to
"Museums, theaters, cinemas and a wide range of other venues can reopen across The Netherlands from June 5, Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced late Friday.
"This is actually the end of the lockdown," he told a news conference.
Restaurants will be allowed to offer indoor dining again and opening hours can be extended until 10pm. The Dutch will also be allowed to invite up to four people to their homes instead of two.
However, employees should still go to workplaces as little as possible, for the time being. "We're not there yet," Rutte cautioned.
A strict lockdown has been in place since mid-December.
Rutte predicted the vaccination campaign will bring more improvements , although the summer will not yet be "completely normal." The government is still warning that travelling entails risks.
If the number of infections and hospitalizations continue to move in the right direction, more restrictions will be relaxed from June 30, Rutte added.
Citizens will then be allowed to host up to eight people in their homes and restaurants and bars will be permitted to stay open until midnight."
It does seem that we're frequently describing our own remaining restrictions as "lockdown" whilst other countries continuing to follow remaining restrictions are "out of lockdown"
I think the term has been hopelessly eroded. I mean, I went to the cinema weeks ago. I've eaten out in restaurants indoors and gone to pubs frequently. And been able to go indoors with more than four people.
Quite!
Today's threads had some absolute nonsense comments (not this matter particularly, but the general fantasising about reality) and it's very tiresome. Almost as bad as the run-up to a GE. And, still to come this evening, the ceremonial throwing of toys out of prams.
--AS
I think the main issue with this delay is the precedent it sets. If a delay is based on what might be rather than what is it makes one wonder what is to stop further delays.
I do understand, but I think this pandemic *has* to be dealt with partly on what-might-be. By the time we react to what is happening now, it's too late.
At least, I think that's so if we want unlocking to be irreversible: one has to project forward to know whether the next step of unlocking has a reasonable probability of disastrous overload of the NHS. My own view, having looked at the data in some detail, is that it could go one way or the other. In an ideal world, we could unlock and then see how it goes, but if we are determined not to re-lock then I think a delay is the only option left.
--AS
The due was really cast once the first lockdown happened (or particularly the second). Once you’ve established the principle of extreme precautionary action in a potentially exponential pandemic situation based on unknown data you’ve set a precedent for all future pandemics. It is a worthwhile exercise to consider how we might have responded in the initial stages of previous pandemics, or potential pandemics, if we had gone through Covid previously (normalising to the current day - ie. things like mass wfh being possible).
Your argument is totally clear cut in relation to last November/December. Nothing fundamental had changed and there was no reason to thing the virus wouldn’t hit us as badly or worse than in the first wave.
But now it’s a bit different. There ARE grounds, with vaccines, for effectively treating it as a new virus. One that will not ravage the old and vulnerable to the same extent. And that should make the equation different.
Or as I say every emerging threat in the future will be treated on the basis of caution. With devastating long term consequences.
I simply don't agree that it's *extreme* precautionary action, that the situation is *potentially* exponential, or that the data is *unknown*. Uncertain: yes; but it's really not a stretch to see (model) how it could easily go very badly without any restrictions. I don't see that as a worst-case scenario, but a realistic one. I'm sorry that we disagree.
(We might have a better idea of the trajectory in another two weeks, and it's a shame that they didn't leave the door open for a review at that point.)
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
“A proportion of the elderly and vulnerable may succumb to the variant even if they’ve had two jabs.”
Project fear.
Not really, sadly. The Lancet report today says that AZ, two weeks after the second dose, is only 60% protective against the Delta variant, while Pfizer is 79% protective.
We need a tweaked variant for the winter, preferably from the Pfizer yeram.
And how long to we wait for that to be tested, approved and manufactured? Then what about the next variant?
And delivered into arms...it has taken 6 months this time to get to 70% of adults
One dose hospitalization reduction between 57-85%......that's a massive interval.
It's probably because the sample size is relatively small thus producing a large range of confidence as you get greater uncertainty in smaller samples (I am not a statistician!)
“A proportion of the elderly and vulnerable may succumb to the variant even if they’ve had two jabs.”
Project fear.
Not really, sadly. The Lancet report today says that AZ, two weeks after the second dose, is only 60% protective against the Delta variant, while Pfizer is 79% protective.
We need a tweaked variant for the winter, preferably from the Pfizer yeram.
And how long to we wait for that to be tested, approved and manufactured? Then what about the next variant?
And delivered into arms...it has taken 6 months this time to get to 70% of adults
One dose hospitalization reduction between 57-85%......that's a massive interval.
It's probably because the sample size is relatively small thus producing a large range of confidence as you get greater uncertainty in smaller samples (I am not a statistician!)
“A proportion of the elderly and vulnerable may succumb to the variant even if they’ve had two jabs.”
Project fear.
Not really, sadly. The Lancet report today says that AZ, two weeks after the second dose, is only 60% protective against the Delta variant, while Pfizer is 79% protective.
We need a tweaked variant for the winter, preferably from the Pfizer yeram.
And how long to we wait for that to be tested, approved and manufactured? Then what about the next variant?
They don't care, lockdown life is great for many, the longer the better.
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Boris is waffling again. Surely the rising 18/19yr olds need to be a vaccine priority if we are to avoid the University Halls of Residence shambles we had last year?
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
29 July. Weddings and wakes can go to over 30 with social distancing - how does that work?
It doesn’t. Social distancing is guidance not law. If 30 plus weddings can go ahead, then they can go ahead. Just have to make sure the tables are spaced.
And you dance in groups of no more than six, presumably...
I know plenty of older people who have been vaxxed but are wary of a full reopening as it would increase their chances of running into people like you who have chosen not to get vaccinated. Wake up. It’s your f****** fault as much as anyone’s. Unless you have been vaccinated, in my book you lose any right whatsoever to criticise the government for keeping restrictions. And I say this as someone who is sitting here livid with what the government is doing and has written (again) to my MP imploring him to vote against the government.
They can ensure the risk is zero by staying in their homes, social distancing and wearing masks or ensuring they only meet people outside their bubble in the open air. That's their choice.
Well I’ll tell you what I’d do instead. Id have the army pin you down at gunpoint with a needle. And if necessary inject you with AZN into your eyeball. Because while there’s a big body of unvaccinated people out there who are vulnerable to hospitalisation from covid, normal service will not resume in the healthcare sector. If you don’t like it, you’ve got a month to find somewhere else to call home.
FFS Moonshine many other governments are unlocking with much lower levels of vaccination. Its almost like NOT being vaccinated is more a guarantee of freedom that being vaccinated.
It is our government that is devaluing your vaccination currency, not me.
The BMA said this morning no other Country in Europe was unlocking or near to
"Museums, theaters, cinemas and a wide range of other venues can reopen across The Netherlands from June 5, Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced late Friday.
"This is actually the end of the lockdown," he told a news conference.
Restaurants will be allowed to offer indoor dining again and opening hours can be extended until 10pm. The Dutch will also be allowed to invite up to four people to their homes instead of two.
However, employees should still go to workplaces as little as possible, for the time being. "We're not there yet," Rutte cautioned.
A strict lockdown has been in place since mid-December.
Rutte predicted the vaccination campaign will bring more improvements , although the summer will not yet be "completely normal." The government is still warning that travelling entails risks.
If the number of infections and hospitalizations continue to move in the right direction, more restrictions will be relaxed from June 30, Rutte added.
Citizens will then be allowed to host up to eight people in their homes and restaurants and bars will be permitted to stay open until midnight."
It does seem that we're frequently describing our own remaining restrictions as "lockdown" whilst other countries continuing to follow remaining restrictions are "out of lockdown"
I think the term has been hopelessly eroded. I mean, I went to the cinema weeks ago. I've eaten out in restaurants indoors and gone to pubs frequently. And been able to go indoors with more than four people.
A good point. Lockdown = the Stay At Home order plus most things closed.
Anybody describing this current scenario here as us being "locked down", I just switch off and disregard the rest of the comment.
I agree. But I think that "lockdown" is sometimes used lazily to mean government constraints.
Where it does grate is when it is used that way in comparison with other restrictions - with ours being “lockdown” and others (often more stringent than ours) being “unlocked” in the same post, or coming up on the same thread in quick succession.
"That's everyone over 50, all the vulnerable, all frontline health and care workers and over 40s who received their first dose by mid-May. Over 40s will have their second jabs accelerated, he says."
Those over 50s, those that booked via NHS system, they did contact you, or did you just have to go on the website again and rebook?
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
"Confident that we won't need more than four weeks."
He was confident that there wouldn't be delay at all until about five minutes ago.
There will be more excuses next time.
Nobody is going to believe that July 19th will be met.
Nonsense.
This site has been demonstrating for days third wave is already levelling out in the hotspots, why should it stop petering out the next couple of weeks?
PB.com can’t have it both ways. That is, figures good to open up today, figures will get more crap never better so we never open up?
One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Right, what countries are worth moving to?
NZ is perfectly free. If you can get in.
I'm sure it is pleasant, but too quiet, too remote.
29 July. Weddings and wakes can go to over 30 with social distancing - how does that work?
It doesn’t. Social distancing is guidance not law. If 30 plus weddings can go ahead, then they can go ahead. Just have to make sure the tables are spaced.
And you dance in groups of no more than six, presumably...
The date is the 21st June not 29th July re weddings
One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
But for how long? And do they get put on ventilators?
Get Fergus Walsh into one of these hospitals to see just how ill these people are.
The PHE data on the Delta efficacy looks excellent.
But Boris just said the vaccine hasn't broken the link between cases and deaths? You can almost see the wanker scientists controlling the marionette strings.
Now we're going to be stuck with arsehole journalists asking all the wrong questions about trivial bullshit rather than tough ones about that link and the original premise of NPIs preventing NHS collapse, not individual deaths. Why has that focussed changed?
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
The average Tory voter is about 107, terrified of the virus, spent about 97% of her time sitting at home even before the Plague and doesn't give a shit about the young.
Kuenssberg asking the right question about July 19th, PM dissembling and wibbling as usual, "confident" that we can reopen on the 19th (which means absolutely nothing,) then prevaricating again.
When he says “the vaccination has not broken the link between infections and deaths”, what he means is the vaccination has not broken the link between infection and dying of something unrelated 28 days later.
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Right, what countries are worth moving to?
Ireland?
Not a bad shout but I heard the delta variant is dublin each week over there?
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
“A proportion of the elderly and vulnerable may succumb to the variant even if they’ve had two jabs.”
Project fear.
Not really, sadly. The Lancet report today says that AZ, two weeks after the second dose, is only 60% protective against the Delta variant, while Pfizer is 79% protective.
We need a tweaked variant for the winter, preferably from the Pfizer yeram.
Even if true those numbers are utterly meaningless. We should not be concerned with how many people catch the new variant but with how many people are hospitalised or die from it. If lots of people continue to catch it because the vaccines are only 60% effective in preventing infection but no one actually dies from it then we need to treat it as a non problem. We do not shut down society because colds are extremely contagious because very very few people ever die from a cold. That is what we ned to use as our measure of concern. How many people are actually dying rom this thing now.
The trouble is that the political classes, pushed by the scientists, are now hostage to this idea that we can never return to normal as long as there are any new cases. Eventually the public will just say screw you. And rightly so.
Moreover the Government really needs to consider that if they devalue public trust in their decision making to this extent then next time a really serious strain or another disease emerges it will be all the harder to persuade people that the measures being proposed are really necessary.
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?
They used to die of the flu and no one gave a shit, not even them. COVID has just replaced the flu now they're vaccinated. If they choose not to be then that's really on them.
One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?
Cars turn a few kids to strawberry jam on the roads each year.
So, why aren't we banning the use of motorized transport?
Wouldn't the grieving parents of the dead kids have an opinion on that?
"Confident that we won't need more than four weeks."
He was confident that there wouldn't be delay at all until about five minutes ago.
There will be more excuses next time.
Nobody is going to believe that July 19th will be met.
Nonsense.
This site has been demonstrating for days third wave is already levelling out in the hotspots, why should it stop petering out the next couple of weeks?
PB.com can’t have it both ways. That is, figures good to open up today, figures will get more crap never better so we never open up?
It doesn't matter how good the figures get, the goalposts will simply be moved again.
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Right, what countries are worth moving to?
Greece, Portugal, Thailand are on my list
Portugal in the lead so far.
Yes. In terms of pure beauty, Greece wins easily. And I love the simple but delicious food.
@ Leon. A reading suggestion for you. New Pandemics, Old Politics: Two Hundred Years of War on Disease and its Alternatives.
It's written by one of the guys on the biosecurity weekly call I participate in, Alex de Waal. As you may imagine from the title, he is critical of the world's response to this (and all other) pandemics. I am only a few pages in, but I already know I am going to like it.
Two short quotes to give you a feel:
'War on disease' i not a harmless metaphor. It suppresses critical think. It focuses our worries on a singular germ as our enemy, forgetting about other things - such as devastated ecologies and an inequitable society - that are no less pathogenic.
and
A new pathogen is an off-model even and models don't (by definition) predict them. In these events, it's the narrative that counts.
One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
Not really, sadly. The Lancet report today says that AZ, two weeks after the second dose, is only 60% protective against the Delta variant, while Pfizer is 79% protective.
We need a tweaked variant for the winter, preferably from the Pfizer yeram.
The government slides just mentioned protection against severe illness / hospitalization and the numbers are way higher, which is really the important thing. Pfizer upto 98% effective.
One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
Citation for that 1/20 figure please.
And what if 95% are held over night for a few tests and released next morning?
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?
Cars turn a few kids to strawberry jam on the roads each year.
So, why aren't we banning the use of motorized transport?
Wouldn't the grieving parents of the dead kids have an opinion on that?
yes, but not necessarily banning road traffic, more likely requesting more safety issues.
This briefing is just all over the place in terms of messaging.
It's literally "we're going to have to live with it, but some older people might die so we're in lockdown forever". I don't understand what 4 weeks buys us if the latter is now the focus. No vaccine will ever be 100% effective and a lot of the time old people just die. They're old, it happens.
One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
Indeed.
I’m pleasantly surprised that Boris, SKS and a majority of the general public are being sensible and pragmatic.
Yes, the unlockdown delay is frustrating, but it’s the right decision.
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Right, what countries are worth moving to?
Greece, Portugal, Thailand are on my list
Portugal in the lead so far.
Yes. In terms of pure beauty, Greece wins easily. And I love the simple but delicious food.
Portugal is a bit more practical but still lovely
A weird one but not keen on non latin alphabets! Quite restrictive.
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?
Cars turn a few kids to strawberry jam on the roads each year.
So, why aren't we banning the use of motorized transport?
Wouldn't the grieving parents of the dead kids have an opinion on that?
yes, but not necessarily banning road traffic, more likely requesting more safety issues.
So long as cars are on the roads there will be accidents.
So long as there are accidents people will die.
One death is one too many. You said so yourself. It doesn't matter that tiny numbers of old people will die of the Plague. Every death is unacceptable to the person who dies and their family.
Johnson can’t be confident the extensions won’t be retained beyond July 19th, if he can’t properly articulate the reasons why the extensions aren’t being lifted now.
One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
This does seem to be the biggest problem with the Delta variant. It is not so much that it is more infectious it is that 1 in 20 get long covid bad enough to need hospitalisation. Given the levels of infections, currently up 45% in 7 days, there really ought to be a significant pick up in hospital admissions soon. We may be just seeing the start of this in which case the government had little choice today.
29 July. Weddings and wakes can go to over 30 with social distancing - how does that work?
It doesn’t. Social distancing is guidance not law. If 30 plus weddings can go ahead, then they can go ahead. Just have to make sure the tables are spaced.
And you dance in groups of no more than six, presumably...
Wedding venues will still have to respect the guidance and enforce a capacity limit based on their size, though obviously the number of guests allowed will be more at outdoor than indoor receptions.
Social distancing guidance may not be enforced by the police if it is guidance rather than law anymore and there is no set guests limit but venues can still be reported to the Health and Safety Executive if they breach social distancing guidance even from 21st June
They can ensure the risk is zero by staying in their homes, social distancing and wearing masks or ensuring they only meet people outside their bubble in the open air. That's their choice.
The same logic would argue that if you run around firing a pistol, we can exercise our free choice to stay at home so you don't hit us. We can, but it doesn't make it right.
I'm not so worried about the unvaccinated. The virus will mutate and acquire partial reistance to the vaccines (As is shown with 1 dose AZ against delta). The truth is that it may well end up in a form where it simply spreads through the entire population (Both unvaxxed and vaxxed) but the vaccinated have vastly milder symptons. If the unvaccinated choose to cough up their own lungs that's on them.
Can you explain reasons other than medical corruption for the restrictions on Ivermectin, HCQ and other drugs proven in RCTs to work against COVID and without significant side-effects?
I suggest you watch this video sent me by a friend who used to work in the NHS ... but long retired (she's 69) https://youtu.be/-_NNTVJzqtY
It includes the inventor of mRNA vaccines, who thinks the principle is still fine but these products have been severely botched and launched prematurely.
I'm ~20% of the way through. It seems it could be a larger version of the 1976 H1N1 vaccine disaster. Not that it will be revealed quickly, especially in the UK:
1) MSM censorship is on a scale not envisaged in 1976 2) Larger disasters give more incentive to cover up, to protect even more reputations.
The RCTs do not support Hydroxychloroquine or Ivermectin. You are selling snake oil.
He’s desperate to believe it. What are the odds his video doesn’t have Katalin Kariko (the person who most can be described as “the inventor of mRNA vaccines”), but some other loonie who the youtubers pretend to be “the inventor of mRNA vaccines”? (Given that Kariko is a senior VP at BioNTech, it’d be a bit of a surprise). I mean, their audience will never check anything that meets with what they so want to be true. Look at the obsession with ivermectin. Anything, anything to avoid the need for vaccines being true.
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?
They used to die of the flu and no one gave a shit, not even them. COVID has just replaced the flu now they're vaccinated. If they choose not to be then that's really on them.
I used to get a cold or flu now and again in my 50s, and I didn't die, whereas if I had caught the rona I probably would have been pushing up the daisies.
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Right, what countries are worth moving to?
Greece, Portugal, Thailand are on my list
Yes, if only we had the right to move anywhere on the continent with no visa or permit.
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?
Cars turn a few kids to strawberry jam on the roads each year.
So, why aren't we banning the use of motorized transport?
Wouldn't the grieving parents of the dead kids have an opinion on that?
Dont give them ideas, cars will be banned for under 25s for safety reasons next.
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
The average Tory voter is about 107, terrified of the virus, spent about 97% of her time sitting at home even before the Plague and doesn't give a shit about the young.
Kuenssberg asking the right question about July 19th, PM dissembling and wibbling as usual, "confident" that we can reopen on the 19th (which means absolutely nothing,) then prevaricating again.
He's obviously going to stall again, isn't he?
He's not going to commit himself until he's got the data. Do you really find that unreasonable?
One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
This is not now about protecting oldies. It's about protecting the as-yet unvaccinated (and the NHS from overload, again).
That's completely fucking useless without context though, how many of those are unvaxxed by choice? What does 4 weeks buy us if they are vaccine refusers. They aren't going to suddenly take the vaccine.
Always knew he was a Wayne Kerr, but the Tory party these days are on the side of the bullies, so I expect him to remain an MP.
An MP has been forced to apologise for bullying parliamentary committee staff as he struggled with IT issues during the first lockdown.
Tory Daniel Kawczynski made the statement in the House of Commons on Monday after problems accessing a committee meeting online in April 2020.
A report said the Shrewsbury and Atcham MP had consumed a "significant amount of alcohol" on the day.
He said his actions had followed "stressful" circumstances.
Mr Kawczynski told the Commons: "I did not swear nor raise my voice but my behaviour led to two complaints. I have reflected on my behaviour, I accept it constituted bullying and as such was highly inexcusable."
The independent report into his conduct said Mr Kawczynski had "repeatedly" contacted one of the complainants through the day on his personal mobile, and was "repeatedly aggressive, rude and impatient".
As the day went on, it became clear he had consumed alcohol it added.
One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
Indeed.
I’m pleasantly surprised that Boris, SKS and a majority of the general public are being sensible and pragmatic.
Yes, the unlockdown delay is frustrating, but it’s the right decision.
It's more than frustrating, it's a complete and avoidable disaster. But, unfortunately, not avoidable at this late stage.
In terms of unlocking, Boris has managed to throw away the advantage of the early vaccine procurement and rollout.
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?
They used to die of the flu and no one gave a shit, not even them. COVID has just replaced the flu now they're vaccinated. If they choose not to be then that's really on them.
I used to get a cold or flu now and again in my 50s, and I didn't die, whereas if I had caught the rona I probably would have been pushing up the daisies.
One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
This is not now about protecting oldies. It's about protecting the as-yet unvaccinated (and the NHS from overload, again).
Whitty and Vallance just said we can offer a jab to all adults by mid July, and double jab all the over 18s by the end of the summer - if I heard correctly
Given the huge difference between one jab and two, in efficacy, I do not see how they can fully reopen on July 19, as promised. That is too risky for the single jabbed (unless the virus weirdly dies out, hitting the large numbers of vaccinated)
In September we will have new variants and seasonal revival.
I really do think restrictions are with us right over the summer, and into 2022, and possibly beyond
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?
They used to die of the flu and no one gave a shit, not even them. COVID has just replaced the flu now they're vaccinated. If they choose not to be then that's really on them.
I used to get a cold or flu now and again in my 50s, and I didn't die, whereas if I had caught the rona I probably would have been pushing up the daisies.
Strange use of probably for a disease with about a 1% fatality rate for the 50 somethings.
Johnson can’t be confident the extensions won’t be retained beyond July 19th, if he can’t properly articulate the reasons why the extensions aren’t being lifted now.
I think Johnson's whole position is now set on July 19, and if he backs out on that he needs to go or be removed.
Not really, sadly. The Lancet report today says that AZ, two weeks after the second dose, is only 60% protective against the Delta variant, while Pfizer is 79% protective.
We need a tweaked variant for the winter, preferably from the Pfizer yeram.
The government slides just mentioned protection against severe illness / hospitalization and the numbers are way higher, which is really the important thing. Pfizer upto 98% effective.
Just one dose definitely looks like an issue.
There’s a worrying trend whereby the zerocovidians and antivaxxers are merging into one.
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away now
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Right, what countries are worth moving to?
Greece, Portugal, Thailand are on my list
Portugal in the lead so far.
Yes. In terms of pure beauty, Greece wins easily. And I love the simple but delicious food.
Portugal is a bit more practical but still lovely
A weird one but not keen on non latin alphabets! Quite restrictive.
Comments
* Anything under the age of 59 is looking a little drastic.
1) Why did you not put India on the red list when you put Pakistan & Bangladesh on it?
2) Why did you wait five days between putting India on the red list and implementing that action?
https://twitter.com/WalkerMarcus/status/1404486003067396109
(We might have a better idea of the trajectory in another two weeks, and it's a shame that they didn't leave the door open for a review at that point.)
--AS
How did that turn out?
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
The most concerning is one dose could be as low as in the 20s % reduction against Delta variant of protection against symptotic infection.
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.
And you dance in groups of no more than six, presumably...
"That's everyone over 50, all the vulnerable, all frontline health and care workers and over 40s who received their first dose by mid-May. Over 40s will have their second jabs accelerated, he says."
Those over 50s, those that booked via NHS system, they did contact you, or did you just have to go on the website again and rebook?
If you can get in.
Pfizer 96% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses
AstraZeneca 92% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses
This is a lot better than experts had previously feared
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1404483776881831938?s=20
I think he's missing an "up to" as Whitty's charts had ranges...
This site has been demonstrating for days third wave is already levelling out in the hotspots, why should it stop petering out the next couple of weeks?
PB.com can’t have it both ways. That is, figures good to open up today, figures will get more crap never better so we never open up?
Covid will always be with us, it will always take out the old and vulnerable, no vaccine is perfect
If we can't cope with it now, we will never be ready to cope. We're fucked
Get Fergus Walsh into one of these hospitals to see just how ill these people are.
Now we're going to be stuck with arsehole journalists asking all the wrong questions about trivial bullshit rather than tough ones about that link and the original premise of NPIs preventing NHS collapse, not individual deaths. Why has that focussed changed?
Kuenssberg asking the right question about July 19th, PM dissembling and wibbling as usual, "confident" that we can reopen on the 19th (which means absolutely nothing,) then prevaricating again.
He's obviously going to stall again, isn't he?
The trouble is that the political classes, pushed by the scientists, are now hostage to this idea that we can never return to normal as long as there are any new cases. Eventually the public will just say screw you. And rightly so.
Moreover the Government really needs to consider that if they devalue public trust in their decision making to this extent then next time a really serious strain or another disease emerges it will be all the harder to persuade people that the measures being proposed are really necessary.
Then we will be really f8cked.
Build a levees and declare victory? Or build a levee, prove it against proper weather, and then declare victory?
Simply sensible politics. Considering this is a political betting site, some of you are rubbish at politics.
So, why aren't we banning the use of motorized transport?
Wouldn't the grieving parents of the dead kids have an opinion on that?
Because if vaccines aren't breaking the link....
Portugal is a bit more practical but still lovely
It's written by one of the guys on the biosecurity weekly call I participate in, Alex de Waal. As you may imagine from the title, he is critical of the world's response to this (and all other) pandemics. I am only a few pages in, but I already know I am going to like it.
Two short quotes to give you a feel:
'War on disease' i not a harmless metaphor. It suppresses critical think. It focuses our worries on a singular germ as our enemy, forgetting about other things - such as devastated ecologies and an inequitable society - that are no less pathogenic.
and
A new pathogen is an off-model even and models don't (by definition) predict them. In these events, it's the narrative that counts.
and
https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1404488615829426180
This is not now about protecting oldies. It's about protecting the as-yet unvaccinated (and the NHS from overload, again).
Just one dose definitely looks like an issue.
I’m pleasantly surprised that Boris, SKS and a majority of the general public are being sensible and pragmatic.
Yes, the unlockdown delay is frustrating, but it’s the right decision.
- "The virus could outrun the vaccine"
- "Thousands more deaths would ensue which could otherwise have been avoided"
So long as there are accidents people will die.
One death is one too many. You said so yourself. It doesn't matter that tiny numbers of old people will die of the Plague. Every death is unacceptable to the person who dies and their family.
Ban the cars.
Social distancing guidance may not be enforced by the police if it is guidance rather than law anymore and there is no set guests limit but venues can still be reported to the Health and Safety Executive if they breach social distancing guidance even from 21st June
What are the odds his video doesn’t have Katalin Kariko (the person who most can be described as “the inventor of mRNA vaccines”), but some other loonie who the youtubers pretend to be “the inventor of mRNA vaccines”?
(Given that Kariko is a senior VP at BioNTech, it’d be a bit of a surprise).
I mean, their audience will never check anything that meets with what they so want to be true.
Look at the obsession with ivermectin. Anything, anything to avoid the need for vaccines being true.
where is the evidence?
An MP has been forced to apologise for bullying parliamentary committee staff as he struggled with IT issues during the first lockdown.
Tory Daniel Kawczynski made the statement in the House of Commons on Monday after problems accessing a committee meeting online in April 2020.
A report said the Shrewsbury and Atcham MP had consumed a "significant amount of alcohol" on the day.
He said his actions had followed "stressful" circumstances.
Mr Kawczynski told the Commons: "I did not swear nor raise my voice but my behaviour led to two complaints. I have reflected on my behaviour, I accept it constituted bullying and as such was highly inexcusable."
The independent report into his conduct said Mr Kawczynski had "repeatedly" contacted one of the complainants through the day on his personal mobile, and was "repeatedly aggressive, rude and impatient".
As the day went on, it became clear he had consumed alcohol it added.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-57473696?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
In terms of unlocking, Boris has managed to throw away the advantage of the early vaccine procurement and rollout.
Given the huge difference between one jab and two, in efficacy, I do not see how they can fully reopen on July 19, as promised. That is too risky for the single jabbed (unless the virus weirdly dies out, hitting the large numbers of vaccinated)
In September we will have new variants and seasonal revival.
I really do think restrictions are with us right over the summer, and into 2022, and possibly beyond