With three days to go the best Chesham and Amersham bet – politicalbetting.com
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Bring forward 2nd jabs for 40 and overs to 8 weeks?....does that include Moderna, concerned viewer of Middle England? Because I tried to rebook and couldn't get sooner than 10 weeks.0
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Then we need to get back to normal tomorrow, in fact should have months ago.FrancisUrquhart said:Wow Boris is saying, double dose hasn't broken the link between cases and deaths.....
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Pathetic. We should go the full Logan's run and eliminate everyone over the age of, checks calendar, say 65*. It would improve our Covid results massively, cut health spending in half and eliminate huge chunks of future liabilities for pensions.Gardenwalker said:It is time to consider removing the vote from the over 60s.
Followed by compulsory purchase of their five bedroom (but empty) homes in the suburbs.
Remove the Stannah stairlifts and you’ve got room for a half dozen poverty stricken millennials.
The oldies have been at the trough for too long.
* Anything under the age of 59 is looking a little drastic.0 -
And how long to we wait for that to be tested, approved and manufactured? Then what about the next variant?NickPalmer said:
Not really, sadly. The Lancet report today says that AZ, two weeks after the second dose, is only 60% protective against the Delta variant, while Pfizer is 79% protective.Gardenwalker said:“A proportion of the elderly and vulnerable may succumb to the variant even if they’ve had two jabs.”
Project fear.
We need a tweaked variant for the winter, preferably from the Pfizer yeram.0 -
Someone needs to ask who is responsible for assessing social distancing - the venue?HYUFD said:
In reality still a cap on numbers ie you can probably have 50 to 100 guests but not 150 guests unless you hire the Royal Albert Halltlg86 said:29 July. Weddings and wakes can go to over 30 with social distancing - how does that work?
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One dose hospitalization reduction between 57-85%......that's a massive interval.0
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Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
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LOL at Cornwall being in the increasing colour. I wonder why that is?1
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There are only two questions the press should be putting to the Prime Minister:
1) Why did you not put India on the red list when you put Pakistan & Bangladesh on it?
2) Why did you wait five days between putting India on the red list and implementing that action?
https://twitter.com/WalkerMarcus/status/14044860030673961094 -
I expect so, we will see in the small printtlg86 said:
Someone needs to ask who is responsible for assessing social distancing - the venue?HYUFD said:
In reality still a cap on numbers ie you can probably have 50 to 100 guests but not 150 guests unless you hire the Royal Albert Halltlg86 said:29 July. Weddings and wakes can go to over 30 with social distancing - how does that work?
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I simply don't agree that it's *extreme* precautionary action, that the situation is *potentially* exponential, or that the data is *unknown*. Uncertain: yes; but it's really not a stretch to see (model) how it could easily go very badly without any restrictions. I don't see that as a worst-case scenario, but a realistic one. I'm sorry that we disagree.alex_ said:
The due was really cast once the first lockdown happened (or particularly the second). Once you’ve established the principle of extreme precautionary action in a potentially exponential pandemic situation based on unknown data you’ve set a precedent for all future pandemics. It is a worthwhile exercise to consider how we might have responded in the initial stages of previous pandemics, or potential pandemics, if we had gone through Covid previously (normalising to the current day - ie. things like mass wfh being possible).AlwaysSinging said:
I do understand, but I think this pandemic *has* to be dealt with partly on what-might-be. By the time we react to what is happening now, it's too late.Stocky said:
I think the main issue with this delay is the precedent it sets. If a delay is based on what might be rather than what is it makes one wonder what is to stop further delays.AlwaysSinging said:
Quite!Andy_Cooke said:
"Museums, theaters, cinemas and a wide range of other venues can reopen across The Netherlands from June 5, Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced late Friday.CarlottaVance said:
https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-coronavirus-lockdown-ends-june-5/Big_G_NorthWales said:
The BMA said this morning no other Country in Europe was unlocking or near tocontrarian said:
FFS Moonshine many other governments are unlocking with much lower levels of vaccination. Its almost like NOT being vaccinated is more a guarantee of freedom that being vaccinated.moonshine said:
Well I’ll tell you what I’d do instead. Id have the army pin you down at gunpoint with a needle. And if necessary inject you with AZN into your eyeball. Because while there’s a big body of unvaccinated people out there who are vulnerable to hospitalisation from covid, normal service will not resume in the healthcare sector. If you don’t like it, you’ve got a month to find somewhere else to call home.contrarian said:moonshine said:
I know plenty of older people who have been vaxxed but are wary of a full reopening as it would increase their chances of running into people like you who have chosen not to get vaccinated. Wake up. It’s your f****** fault as much as anyone’s. Unless you have been vaccinated, in my book you lose any right whatsoever to criticise the government for keeping restrictions. And I say this as someone who is sitting here livid with what the government is doing and has written (again) to my MP imploring him to vote against the government.contrarian said:https://yougov.co.uk/topics/health/articles-reports/2021/06/14/seven-ten-english-people-support-delaying-21-june-
These are extraordinary numbers.
Go figure.
They can ensure the risk is zero by staying in their homes, social distancing and wearing masks or ensuring they only meet people outside their bubble in the open air. That's their choice.
It is our government that is devaluing your vaccination currency, not me.
So who are these many other governments unlocking
"This is actually the end of the lockdown," he told a news conference.
Restaurants will be allowed to offer indoor dining again and opening hours can be extended until 10pm. The Dutch will also be allowed to invite up to four people to their homes instead of two.
However, employees should still go to workplaces as little as possible, for the time being. "We're not there yet," Rutte cautioned.
A strict lockdown has been in place since mid-December.
Rutte predicted the vaccination campaign will bring more improvements , although the summer will not yet be "completely normal." The government is still warning that travelling entails risks.
If the number of infections and hospitalizations continue to move in the right direction, more restrictions will be relaxed from June 30, Rutte added.
Citizens will then be allowed to host up to eight people in their homes and restaurants and bars will be permitted to stay open until midnight."
It does seem that we're frequently describing our own remaining restrictions as "lockdown" whilst other countries continuing to follow remaining restrictions are "out of lockdown"
I think the term has been hopelessly eroded.
I mean, I went to the cinema weeks ago. I've eaten out in restaurants indoors and gone to pubs frequently. And been able to go indoors with more than four people.
Today's threads had some absolute nonsense comments (not this matter particularly, but the general fantasising about reality) and it's very tiresome. Almost as bad as the run-up to a GE. And, still to come this evening, the ceremonial throwing of toys out of prams.
--AS
At least, I think that's so if we want unlocking to be irreversible: one has to project forward to know whether the next step of unlocking has a reasonable probability of disastrous overload of the NHS. My own view, having looked at the data in some detail, is that it could go one way or the other. In an ideal world, we could unlock and then see how it goes, but if we are determined not to re-lock then I think a delay is the only option left.
--AS
Your argument is totally clear cut in relation to last November/December. Nothing fundamental had changed and there was no reason to thing the virus wouldn’t hit us as badly or worse than in the first wave.
But now it’s a bit different. There ARE grounds, with vaccines, for effectively treating it as a new virus. One that will not ravage the old and vulnerable to the same extent. And that should make the equation different.
Or as I say every emerging threat in the future will be treated on the basis of caution. With devastating long term consequences.
(We might have a better idea of the trajectory in another two weeks, and it's a shame that they didn't leave the door open for a review at that point.)
--AS0 -
He also said he wouldn't put a border in the Irish Sea.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
How did that turn out?5 -
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away2 -
And delivered into arms...it has taken 6 months this time to get to 70% of adultsMaxPB said:
And how long to we wait for that to be tested, approved and manufactured? Then what about the next variant?NickPalmer said:
Not really, sadly. The Lancet report today says that AZ, two weeks after the second dose, is only 60% protective against the Delta variant, while Pfizer is 79% protective.Gardenwalker said:“A proportion of the elderly and vulnerable may succumb to the variant even if they’ve had two jabs.”
Project fear.
We need a tweaked variant for the winter, preferably from the Pfizer yeram.1 -
The church in our case and they already do it for their normal services and are well versed in the process according to the ministertlg86 said:
Someone needs to ask who is responsible for assessing social distancing - the venue?HYUFD said:
In reality still a cap on numbers ie you can probably have 50 to 100 guests but not 150 guests unless you hire the Royal Albert Halltlg86 said:29 July. Weddings and wakes can go to over 30 with social distancing - how does that work?
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It's probably because the sample size is relatively small thus producing a large range of confidence as you get greater uncertainty in smaller samples (I am not a statistician!)FrancisUrquhart said:One dose hospitalization reduction between 57-85%......that's a massive interval.
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Witty is painting a really bleak picture. You can see why Boris shit his pants.0
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Yes.londonpubman said:
It's probably because the sample size is relatively small thus producing a large range of confidence (I am not a statistician!)FrancisUrquhart said:One dose hospitalization reduction between 57-85%......that's a massive interval.
The most concerning is one dose could be as low as in the 20s % reduction against Delta variant of protection against symptotic infection.0 -
It's ridiculous.Foxy said:
And delivered into arms...it has taken 6 months this time to get to 70% of adultsMaxPB said:
And how long to we wait for that to be tested, approved and manufactured? Then what about the next variant?NickPalmer said:
Not really, sadly. The Lancet report today says that AZ, two weeks after the second dose, is only 60% protective against the Delta variant, while Pfizer is 79% protective.Gardenwalker said:“A proportion of the elderly and vulnerable may succumb to the variant even if they’ve had two jabs.”
Project fear.
We need a tweaked variant for the winter, preferably from the Pfizer yeram.1 -
Which, of course, undermines the level of panic.londonpubman said:
It's probably because the sample size is relatively small thus producing a large range of confidence as you get greater uncertainty in smaller samples (I am not a statistician!)FrancisUrquhart said:One dose hospitalization reduction between 57-85%......that's a massive interval.
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They don't care, lockdown life is great for many, the longer the better.MaxPB said:
And how long to we wait for that to be tested, approved and manufactured? Then what about the next variant?NickPalmer said:
Not really, sadly. The Lancet report today says that AZ, two weeks after the second dose, is only 60% protective against the Delta variant, while Pfizer is 79% protective.Gardenwalker said:“A proportion of the elderly and vulnerable may succumb to the variant even if they’ve had two jabs.”
Project fear.
We need a tweaked variant for the winter, preferably from the Pfizer yeram.1 -
Ideally that will be the case, in which case it’s a free for all as they will all agree it’s a-okay.tlg86 said:
Someone needs to ask who is responsible for assessing social distancing - the venue?HYUFD said:
In reality still a cap on numbers ie you can probably have 50 to 100 guests but not 150 guests unless you hire the Royal Albert Halltlg86 said:29 July. Weddings and wakes can go to over 30 with social distancing - how does that work?
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As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.3 -
Right, what countries are worth moving to?Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away0 -
Boris is waffling again. Surely the rising 18/19yr olds need to be a vaccine priority if we are to avoid the University Halls of Residence shambles we had last year?0
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Ireland?noneoftheabove said:
Right, what countries are worth moving to?Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away0 -
It doesn’t. Social distancing is guidance not law. If 30 plus weddings can go ahead, then they can go ahead. Just have to make sure the tables are spaced.tlg86 said:29 July. Weddings and wakes can go to over 30 with social distancing - how does that work?
And you dance in groups of no more than six, presumably...1 -
Where it does grate is when it is used that way in comparison with other restrictions - with ours being “lockdown” and others (often more stringent than ours) being “unlocked” in the same post, or coming up on the same thread in quick succession.Stocky said:
I agree. But I think that "lockdown" is sometimes used lazily to mean government constraints.kinabalu said:
A good point. Lockdown = the Stay At Home order plus most things closed.Andy_Cooke said:
"Museums, theaters, cinemas and a wide range of other venues can reopen across The Netherlands from June 5, Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced late Friday.CarlottaVance said:
https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-coronavirus-lockdown-ends-june-5/Big_G_NorthWales said:
The BMA said this morning no other Country in Europe was unlocking or near tocontrarian said:
FFS Moonshine many other governments are unlocking with much lower levels of vaccination. Its almost like NOT being vaccinated is more a guarantee of freedom that being vaccinated.moonshine said:
Well I’ll tell you what I’d do instead. Id have the army pin you down at gunpoint with a needle. And if necessary inject you with AZN into your eyeball. Because while there’s a big body of unvaccinated people out there who are vulnerable to hospitalisation from covid, normal service will not resume in the healthcare sector. If you don’t like it, you’ve got a month to find somewhere else to call home.contrarian said:moonshine said:
I know plenty of older people who have been vaxxed but are wary of a full reopening as it would increase their chances of running into people like you who have chosen not to get vaccinated. Wake up. It’s your f****** fault as much as anyone’s. Unless you have been vaccinated, in my book you lose any right whatsoever to criticise the government for keeping restrictions. And I say this as someone who is sitting here livid with what the government is doing and has written (again) to my MP imploring him to vote against the government.contrarian said:https://yougov.co.uk/topics/health/articles-reports/2021/06/14/seven-ten-english-people-support-delaying-21-june-
These are extraordinary numbers.
Go figure.
They can ensure the risk is zero by staying in their homes, social distancing and wearing masks or ensuring they only meet people outside their bubble in the open air. That's their choice.
It is our government that is devaluing your vaccination currency, not me.
So who are these many other governments unlocking
"This is actually the end of the lockdown," he told a news conference.
Restaurants will be allowed to offer indoor dining again and opening hours can be extended until 10pm. The Dutch will also be allowed to invite up to four people to their homes instead of two.
However, employees should still go to workplaces as little as possible, for the time being. "We're not there yet," Rutte cautioned.
A strict lockdown has been in place since mid-December.
Rutte predicted the vaccination campaign will bring more improvements , although the summer will not yet be "completely normal." The government is still warning that travelling entails risks.
If the number of infections and hospitalizations continue to move in the right direction, more restrictions will be relaxed from June 30, Rutte added.
Citizens will then be allowed to host up to eight people in their homes and restaurants and bars will be permitted to stay open until midnight."
It does seem that we're frequently describing our own remaining restrictions as "lockdown" whilst other countries continuing to follow remaining restrictions are "out of lockdown"
I think the term has been hopelessly eroded.
I mean, I went to the cinema weeks ago. I've eaten out in restaurants indoors and gone to pubs frequently. And been able to go indoors with more than four people.
Anybody describing this current scenario here as us being "locked down", I just switch off and disregard the rest of the comment.1 -
Concerned of middle England..
"That's everyone over 50, all the vulnerable, all frontline health and care workers and over 40s who received their first dose by mid-May. Over 40s will have their second jabs accelerated, he says."
Those over 50s, those that booked via NHS system, they did contact you, or did you just have to go on the website again and rebook?0 -
Will a journalist be brave enough to ask "if things are so worrying, why aren't we unwinding the last stage of unlocking?"0
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The PHE data on the Delta efficacy looks excellent.1
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NZ is perfectly free.noneoftheabove said:
Right, what countries are worth moving to?Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
If you can get in.0 -
Very very good news from Public Health England: the vaccine works on the Delta/Indian variant
Pfizer 96% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses
AstraZeneca 92% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses
This is a lot better than experts had previously feared
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1404483776881831938?s=20
I think he's missing an "up to" as Whitty's charts had ranges...1 -
A better question, what about the 6 million doses of AZN not doing anything....tlg86 said:Will a journalist be brave enough to ask "if things are so worrying, why aren't we unwinding the last stage of unlocking?"
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Nonsense.Black_Rook said:"Confident that we won't need more than four weeks."
He was confident that there wouldn't be delay at all until about five minutes ago.
There will be more excuses next time.
Nobody is going to believe that July 19th will be met.
This site has been demonstrating for days third wave is already levelling out in the hotspots, why should it stop petering out the next couple of weeks?
PB.com can’t have it both ways. That is, figures good to open up today, figures will get more crap never better so we never open up?0 -
Yes - I expected Laura to ask Boris if he could guarantee no further delay0
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One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.5
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Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?MaxPB said:
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.0 -
This is preparation for a nation in perpetual lockdown
Covid will always be with us, it will always take out the old and vulnerable, no vaccine is perfect
If we can't cope with it now, we will never be ready to cope. We're fucked1 -
I'm sure it is pleasant, but too quiet, too remote.Gardenwalker said:
NZ is perfectly free.noneoftheabove said:
Right, what countries are worth moving to?Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
If you can get in.0 -
The date is the 21st June not 29th July re weddingsalex_ said:
It doesn’t. Social distancing is guidance not law. If 30 plus weddings can go ahead, then they can go ahead. Just have to make sure the tables are spaced.tlg86 said:29 July. Weddings and wakes can go to over 30 with social distancing - how does that work?
And you dance in groups of no more than six, presumably...0 -
But for how long? And do they get put on ventilators?Richard_Nabavi said:One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
Get Fergus Walsh into one of these hospitals to see just how ill these people are.0 -
But Boris just said the vaccine hasn't broken the link between cases and deaths? You can almost see the wanker scientists controlling the marionette strings.Anabobazina said:The PHE data on the Delta efficacy looks excellent.
Now we're going to be stuck with arsehole journalists asking all the wrong questions about trivial bullshit rather than tough ones about that link and the original premise of NPIs preventing NHS collapse, not individual deaths. Why has that focussed changed?1 -
The average Tory voter is about 107, terrified of the virus, spent about 97% of her time sitting at home even before the Plague and doesn't give a shit about the young.Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Kuenssberg asking the right question about July 19th, PM dissembling and wibbling as usual, "confident" that we can reopen on the 19th (which means absolutely nothing,) then prevaricating again.
He's obviously going to stall again, isn't he?0 -
When he says “the vaccination has not broken the link between infections and deaths”, what he means is the vaccination has not broken the link between infection and dying of something unrelated 28 days later.1
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Not a bad shout but I heard the delta variant is dublin each week over there?Daveyboy1961 said:
Ireland?noneoftheabove said:
Right, what countries are worth moving to?Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away1 -
Greece, Portugal, Thailand are on my listnoneoftheabove said:
Right, what countries are worth moving to?Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away1 -
Even if true those numbers are utterly meaningless. We should not be concerned with how many people catch the new variant but with how many people are hospitalised or die from it. If lots of people continue to catch it because the vaccines are only 60% effective in preventing infection but no one actually dies from it then we need to treat it as a non problem. We do not shut down society because colds are extremely contagious because very very few people ever die from a cold. That is what we ned to use as our measure of concern. How many people are actually dying rom this thing now.NickPalmer said:
Not really, sadly. The Lancet report today says that AZ, two weeks after the second dose, is only 60% protective against the Delta variant, while Pfizer is 79% protective.Gardenwalker said:“A proportion of the elderly and vulnerable may succumb to the variant even if they’ve had two jabs.”
Project fear.
We need a tweaked variant for the winter, preferably from the Pfizer yeram.
The trouble is that the political classes, pushed by the scientists, are now hostage to this idea that we can never return to normal as long as there are any new cases. Eventually the public will just say screw you. And rightly so.
Moreover the Government really needs to consider that if they devalue public trust in their decision making to this extent then next time a really serious strain or another disease emerges it will be all the harder to persuade people that the measures being proposed are really necessary.1 -
Portugal in the lead so far.Leon said:
Greece, Portugal, Thailand are on my listnoneoftheabove said:
Right, what countries are worth moving to?Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away0 -
They used to die of the flu and no one gave a shit, not even them. COVID has just replaced the flu now they're vaccinated. If they choose not to be then that's really on them.Daveyboy1961 said:
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?MaxPB said:
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.1 -
This briefing is just all over the place in terms of messaging.0
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One day the money will run out.Leon said:This is preparation for a nation in perpetual lockdown
Covid will always be with us, it will always take out the old and vulnerable, no vaccine is perfect
If we can't cope with it now, we will never be ready to cope. We're fucked
Then we will be really f8cked.
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Citation for that 1/20 figure please.Richard_Nabavi said:One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
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Pretty clear the vaccines work. Pretty clear the science says open up. Pretty clear this is clever politics.tlg86 said:Pretty clear that this is about saving a few lives rather than protecting the NHS.
Build a levees and declare victory? Or build a levee, prove it against proper weather, and then declare victory?
Simply sensible politics. Considering this is a political betting site, some of you are rubbish at politics.0 -
Cars turn a few kids to strawberry jam on the roads each year.Daveyboy1961 said:
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?MaxPB said:
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.
So, why aren't we banning the use of motorized transport?
Wouldn't the grieving parents of the dead kids have an opinion on that?3 -
Has the PM said anything about the WFH directive?
Because if vaccines aren't breaking the link....0 -
It doesn't matter how good the figures get, the goalposts will simply be moved again.gealbhan said:
Nonsense.Black_Rook said:"Confident that we won't need more than four weeks."
He was confident that there wouldn't be delay at all until about five minutes ago.
There will be more excuses next time.
Nobody is going to believe that July 19th will be met.
This site has been demonstrating for days third wave is already levelling out in the hotspots, why should it stop petering out the next couple of weeks?
PB.com can’t have it both ways. That is, figures good to open up today, figures will get more crap never better so we never open up?0 -
Yes. In terms of pure beauty, Greece wins easily. And I love the simple but delicious food.noneoftheabove said:
Portugal in the lead so far.Leon said:
Greece, Portugal, Thailand are on my listnoneoftheabove said:
Right, what countries are worth moving to?Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Portugal is a bit more practical but still lovely
0 -
@ Leon. A reading suggestion for you. New Pandemics, Old Politics: Two Hundred Years of War on Disease and its Alternatives.
It's written by one of the guys on the biosecurity weekly call I participate in, Alex de Waal. As you may imagine from the title, he is critical of the world's response to this (and all other) pandemics. I am only a few pages in, but I already know I am going to like it.
Two short quotes to give you a feel:
'War on disease' i not a harmless metaphor. It suppresses critical think. It focuses our worries on a singular germ as our enemy, forgetting about other things - such as devastated ecologies and an inequitable society - that are no less pathogenic.
and
A new pathogen is an off-model even and models don't (by definition) predict them. In these events, it's the narrative that counts.0 -
https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1404487876851777547MaxPB said:
Citation for that 1/20 figure please.Richard_Nabavi said:One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
and
https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1404488615829426180
This is not now about protecting oldies. It's about protecting the as-yet unvaccinated (and the NHS from overload, again).0 -
The government slides just mentioned protection against severe illness / hospitalization and the numbers are way higher, which is really the important thing. Pfizer upto 98% effective.NickPalmer said:
Not really, sadly. The Lancet report today says that AZ, two weeks after the second dose, is only 60% protective against the Delta variant, while Pfizer is 79% protective.
We need a tweaked variant for the winter, preferably from the Pfizer yeram.
Just one dose definitely looks like an issue.1 -
And what if 95% are held over night for a few tests and released next morning?MaxPB said:
Citation for that 1/20 figure please.Richard_Nabavi said:One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
0 -
yes, but not necessarily banning road traffic, more likely requesting more safety issues.Black_Rook said:
Cars turn a few kids to strawberry jam on the roads each year.Daveyboy1961 said:
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?MaxPB said:
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.
So, why aren't we banning the use of motorized transport?
Wouldn't the grieving parents of the dead kids have an opinion on that?0 -
It's literally "we're going to have to live with it, but some older people might die so we're in lockdown forever". I don't understand what 4 weeks buys us if the latter is now the focus. No vaccine will ever be 100% effective and a lot of the time old people just die. They're old, it happens.solarflare said:This briefing is just all over the place in terms of messaging.
0 -
Indeed.Richard_Nabavi said:One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
I’m pleasantly surprised that Boris, SKS and a majority of the general public are being sensible and pragmatic.
Yes, the unlockdown delay is frustrating, but it’s the right decision.2 -
A weird one but not keen on non latin alphabets! Quite restrictive.Leon said:
Yes. In terms of pure beauty, Greece wins easily. And I love the simple but delicious food.noneoftheabove said:
Portugal in the lead so far.Leon said:
Greece, Portugal, Thailand are on my listnoneoftheabove said:
Right, what countries are worth moving to?Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Portugal is a bit more practical but still lovely0 -
Anyone fancy a go at tackling the veracity of these two Johnson pronouncements, quoted verbatim?:
- "The virus could outrun the vaccine"
- "Thousands more deaths would ensue which could otherwise have been avoided"0 -
So long as cars are on the roads there will be accidents.Daveyboy1961 said:
yes, but not necessarily banning road traffic, more likely requesting more safety issues.Black_Rook said:
Cars turn a few kids to strawberry jam on the roads each year.Daveyboy1961 said:
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?MaxPB said:
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.
So, why aren't we banning the use of motorized transport?
Wouldn't the grieving parents of the dead kids have an opinion on that?
So long as there are accidents people will die.
One death is one too many. You said so yourself. It doesn't matter that tiny numbers of old people will die of the Plague. Every death is unacceptable to the person who dies and their family.
Ban the cars.0 -
Johnson can’t be confident the extensions won’t be retained beyond July 19th, if he can’t properly articulate the reasons why the extensions aren’t being lifted now.2
-
This does seem to be the biggest problem with the Delta variant. It is not so much that it is more infectious it is that 1 in 20 get long covid bad enough to need hospitalisation. Given the levels of infections, currently up 45% in 7 days, there really ought to be a significant pick up in hospital admissions soon. We may be just seeing the start of this in which case the government had little choice today.Richard_Nabavi said:One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
2 -
Wedding venues will still have to respect the guidance and enforce a capacity limit based on their size, though obviously the number of guests allowed will be more at outdoor than indoor receptions.alex_ said:
It doesn’t. Social distancing is guidance not law. If 30 plus weddings can go ahead, then they can go ahead. Just have to make sure the tables are spaced.tlg86 said:29 July. Weddings and wakes can go to over 30 with social distancing - how does that work?
And you dance in groups of no more than six, presumably...
Social distancing guidance may not be enforced by the police if it is guidance rather than law anymore and there is no set guests limit but venues can still be reported to the Health and Safety Executive if they breach social distancing guidance even from 21st June0 -
Vallance saying that the four week delay (except Weddings!) is in the Goldilocks zone.0
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He’s desperate to believe it.Foxy said:
The RCTs do not support Hydroxychloroquine or Ivermectin. You are selling snake oil.rural_voter said:
Can you explain reasons other than medical corruption for the restrictions on Ivermectin, HCQ and other drugs proven in RCTs to work against COVID and without significant side-effects?Pulpstar said:
I'm not so worried about the unvaccinated. The virus will mutate and acquire partial reistance to the vaccines (As is shown with 1 dose AZ against delta). The truth is that it may well end up in a form where it simply spreads through the entire population (Both unvaxxed and vaxxed) but the vaccinated have vastly milder symptons. If the unvaccinated choose to cough up their own lungs that's on them.NickPalmer said:
The same logic would argue that if you run around firing a pistol, we can exercise our free choice to stay at home so you don't hit us. We can, but it doesn't make it right.contrarian said:
They can ensure the risk is zero by staying in their homes, social distancing and wearing masks or ensuring they only meet people outside their bubble in the open air. That's their choice.
I suggest you watch this video sent me by a friend who used to work in the NHS ... but long retired (she's 69)
https://youtu.be/-_NNTVJzqtY
It includes the inventor of mRNA vaccines, who thinks the principle is still fine but these products have been severely botched and launched prematurely.
I'm ~20% of the way through. It seems it could be a larger version of the 1976 H1N1 vaccine disaster. Not that it will be revealed quickly, especially in the UK:
1) MSM censorship is on a scale not envisaged in 1976
2) Larger disasters give more incentive to cover up, to protect even more reputations.
What are the odds his video doesn’t have Katalin Kariko (the person who most can be described as “the inventor of mRNA vaccines”), but some other loonie who the youtubers pretend to be “the inventor of mRNA vaccines”?
(Given that Kariko is a senior VP at BioNTech, it’d be a bit of a surprise).
I mean, their audience will never check anything that meets with what they so want to be true.
Look at the obsession with ivermectin. Anything, anything to avoid the need for vaccines being true.1 -
GB NEWS KLAXON0
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I used to get a cold or flu now and again in my 50s, and I didn't die, whereas if I had caught the rona I probably would have been pushing up the daisies.MaxPB said:
They used to die of the flu and no one gave a shit, not even them. COVID has just replaced the flu now they're vaccinated. If they choose not to be then that's really on them.Daveyboy1961 said:
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?MaxPB said:
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.0 -
Yes, if only we had the right to move anywhere on the continent with no visa or permit.Leon said:
Greece, Portugal, Thailand are on my listnoneoftheabove said:
Right, what countries are worth moving to?Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
7 -
Dont give them ideas, cars will be banned for under 25s for safety reasons next.Black_Rook said:
Cars turn a few kids to strawberry jam on the roads each year.Daveyboy1961 said:
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?MaxPB said:
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.
So, why aren't we banning the use of motorized transport?
Wouldn't the grieving parents of the dead kids have an opinion on that?1 -
And I see we are onto dickhead questions...0
-
He's not going to commit himself until he's got the data. Do you really find that unreasonable?Black_Rook said:
The average Tory voter is about 107, terrified of the virus, spent about 97% of her time sitting at home even before the Plague and doesn't give a shit about the young.Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Kuenssberg asking the right question about July 19th, PM dissembling and wibbling as usual, "confident" that we can reopen on the 19th (which means absolutely nothing,) then prevaricating again.
He's obviously going to stall again, isn't he?2 -
"up to 500 deaths a day" is a claim now?
where is the evidence?0 -
When restrictions are fully released it'll be like a champagne cork popping with regards to clubs and gigs.0
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Vallance actually said not much benefit in extending delay more than 4 weeks!0
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GB News to the rescue!!!FrancisUrquhart said:
A better question, what about the 6 million doses of AZN not doing anything....tlg86 said:Will a journalist be brave enough to ask "if things are so worrying, why aren't we unwinding the last stage of unlocking?"
0 -
GB News go third!0
-
That's completely fucking useless without context though, how many of those are unvaxxed by choice? What does 4 weeks buy us if they are vaccine refusers. They aren't going to suddenly take the vaccine.Richard_Nabavi said:
https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1404487876851777547MaxPB said:
Citation for that 1/20 figure please.Richard_Nabavi said:One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
and
https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1404488615829426180
This is not now about protecting oldies. It's about protecting the as-yet unvaccinated (and the NHS from overload, again).0 -
I don't believe they will be 'fully' released by this Government.Pulpstar said:When restrictions are fully released .
0 -
Always knew he was a Wayne Kerr, but the Tory party these days are on the side of the bullies, so I expect him to remain an MP.
An MP has been forced to apologise for bullying parliamentary committee staff as he struggled with IT issues during the first lockdown.
Tory Daniel Kawczynski made the statement in the House of Commons on Monday after problems accessing a committee meeting online in April 2020.
A report said the Shrewsbury and Atcham MP had consumed a "significant amount of alcohol" on the day.
He said his actions had followed "stressful" circumstances.
Mr Kawczynski told the Commons: "I did not swear nor raise my voice but my behaviour led to two complaints. I have reflected on my behaviour, I accept it constituted bullying and as such was highly inexcusable."
The independent report into his conduct said Mr Kawczynski had "repeatedly" contacted one of the complainants through the day on his personal mobile, and was "repeatedly aggressive, rude and impatient".
As the day went on, it became clear he had consumed alcohol it added.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-57473696?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter0 -
It's more than frustrating, it's a complete and avoidable disaster. But, unfortunately, not avoidable at this late stage.ping said:
Indeed.Richard_Nabavi said:One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
I’m pleasantly surprised that Boris, SKS and a majority of the general public are being sensible and pragmatic.
Yes, the unlockdown delay is frustrating, but it’s the right decision.
In terms of unlocking, Boris has managed to throw away the advantage of the early vaccine procurement and rollout.2 -
-
You've been vaccinated.Daveyboy1961 said:
I used to get a cold or flu now and again in my 50s, and I didn't die, whereas if I had caught the rona I probably would have been pushing up the daisies.MaxPB said:
They used to die of the flu and no one gave a shit, not even them. COVID has just replaced the flu now they're vaccinated. If they choose not to be then that's really on them.Daveyboy1961 said:
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?MaxPB said:
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.0 -
Whitty and Vallance just said we can offer a jab to all adults by mid July, and double jab all the over 18s by the end of the summer - if I heard correctlyRichard_Nabavi said:
https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1404487876851777547MaxPB said:
Citation for that 1/20 figure please.Richard_Nabavi said:One in 20 of those currently getting infected end up in hospital. That's a massive proportion. They are mostly fairly young, now (because the jabs are doing their magic). Hospitalisations on that scale are not something the government can simply ignore.
and
https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1404488615829426180
This is not now about protecting oldies. It's about protecting the as-yet unvaccinated (and the NHS from overload, again).
Given the huge difference between one jab and two, in efficacy, I do not see how they can fully reopen on July 19, as promised. That is too risky for the single jabbed (unless the virus weirdly dies out, hitting the large numbers of vaccinated)
In September we will have new variants and seasonal revival.
I really do think restrictions are with us right over the summer, and into 2022, and possibly beyond
2 -
Sooner or later the Tory Party will remove Boris from power and put in a leader who will unlock... I can see this ending badly for Boris...Leon said:This is preparation for a nation in perpetual lockdown
Covid will always be with us, it will always take out the old and vulnerable, no vaccine is perfect
If we can't cope with it now, we will never be ready to cope. We're fucked0 -
Strange use of probably for a disease with about a 1% fatality rate for the 50 somethings.Daveyboy1961 said:
I used to get a cold or flu now and again in my 50s, and I didn't die, whereas if I had caught the rona I probably would have been pushing up the daisies.MaxPB said:
They used to die of the flu and no one gave a shit, not even them. COVID has just replaced the flu now they're vaccinated. If they choose not to be then that's really on them.Daveyboy1961 said:
Perhaps the "few old people" you mention might have an opinion on that?MaxPB said:
As a nation the UK has lost it. The wretched scientists have turned people into craven idiots begging for politicians to keep our freedoms from us under the guise of a few old people dying of a respiratory disease.Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Fuck all of those wankers who support this.0 -
I think Johnson's whole position is now set on July 19, and if he backs out on that he needs to go or be removed.alex_ said:Johnson can’t be confident the extensions won’t be retained beyond July 19th, if he can’t properly articulate the reasons why the extensions aren’t being lifted now.
0 -
Andrew Lloyd Webber exemption as well as weddings? Johnson said "some performances".1
-
There’s a worrying trend whereby the zerocovidians and antivaxxers are merging into one.FrancisUrquhart said:
The government slides just mentioned protection against severe illness / hospitalization and the numbers are way higher, which is really the important thing. Pfizer upto 98% effective.NickPalmer said:
Not really, sadly. The Lancet report today says that AZ, two weeks after the second dose, is only 60% protective against the Delta variant, while Pfizer is 79% protective.
We need a tweaked variant for the winter, preferably from the Pfizer yeram.
Just one dose definitely looks like an issue.1 -
Not if you learn them.noneoftheabove said:
A weird one but not keen on non latin alphabets! Quite restrictive.Leon said:
Yes. In terms of pure beauty, Greece wins easily. And I love the simple but delicious food.noneoftheabove said:
Portugal in the lead so far.Leon said:
Greece, Portugal, Thailand are on my listnoneoftheabove said:
Right, what countries are worth moving to?Leon said:
Yes, it will be blurred into the autumn, then extended into next year. It won't ever go away nowMaxPB said:
Does anyone believe him? He's a bushitter and liar and when the scientists start banging the drum in three weeks for a further delay he'll give in again and we're stuck in this phase until 2022.Big_G_NorthWales said:Will not go beyond the 19th July
It's just a question of whether we have the guts to accept an elevated level of risk, or we cower away
Portugal is a bit more practical but still lovely0
This discussion has been closed.