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The Lib Dems look likely to give it a go in Chesham and Amersham – politicalbetting.com

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  • Although roughly 10% of people seem to have given up wearing masks on the Tube, I suspect we will be wearing masks there for some time yet.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Re what we were discussing the other day about Grenfell and the construction industry - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/toxic-and-dysfunctional-industry-in-race-to-the-bottom-kmd8n7ct9

    A summary: "“The largest of the many problems in the industry is the broken business model that promotes a race to the bottom in standards. Taken together that is a toxic equation.”

    From an initial reading it sounds very similar to what happened in finance - the obsession with making money to the exclusion of all else has resulted in appalling risk management and a poor culture and nothing will change until the industry realises it has to change. Forcing it to pay up for Grenfell might have kickstarted that change. Instead it has been let off the hook.

    Police
    The construction industry
    Finance
    The Post Office
    The NHS
    The press
    Charities
    Churches

    All of these and others have suffered repeated scandals over the years, in some cases, over decades. All of them have to a greater or lesser extent been in denial of the extent of the problems and what is really needed to effect real change for the better.

    We are far too complacent, far too ready to accept the second and third rate, far too willing to pat ourselves on the back for past glories, far too willing to entrust our governance to fundamentally frivolous and unserious individuals, far too willing to sneer at the incompetences and failings of others instead of addressing the beams in our own eyes. Until we do, nothing much will change for the better.

    The problem I saw regarding the cladding at Grenfell is that the official information looked fine. For me the comparison is VW emissions. The systems for design of buildings is now so complicated that detailed analysis need to be done by engineers. If the information they are using is wrong - design error, product fraud, incompatible designs - then the end result will not be correct. Even those employed to supervise these sort of standards for investors, and I used to work for such a consultant years ago, are reliant on the professional competence of others.

    The best people to speak to are the site foremen. I remember my first time on a building site on work experience and the site foreman got into a row with the surveyor I was with because the drawings whilst attractive, were impossible to build!
    I am quite interested in construction, partly as a result of building a house for the last few years, partly because one of my children's godparents was a builder who taught me quite a lot about how houses work, materials, how to build things etc and partly because of much husband's profession. The builder learnt the old-fashioned way, through a proper apprenticeship and his big beef was that too many people called themselves builders but simply did not have the skills to build houses properly. His other beef was with clients who concentrated on the look and decoration but did not want to spend money on stuff like roofs, plumbing, proper insulation - all the stuff you can't see but which makes a house work well. He said that meant they tended to go for cheap quotes and also made them prey to every type of conman going.

    Having stripped two houses back to the bare bones, it is fascinating to see how they are built and when you see what is involved you realise why it costs - if you want to do it properly. But, curiously, for a property-mad country, we focus too much on the superficial - kitchens and wallpaper - and not enough on the structural stuff. It might even serve as a metaphor for our attitude to many other things as well.
    My father did a 7 year apprenticeship to become a bricklayer. He later taught others at FE College.
    How many such courses and students now?
    You can tell a lot from the brickwork, he assured me.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374
    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    Possibly.

    But its a warning to Boris.

    His slack personal management causes him problems and the Carrie Antoinette stuff does rile voters.

    If he's sensible (yes, I know) and learns from events then he's been given another piece of luck.
    Yes, what seems to have registered for my friends is the "why does she need a nanny?" stuff more than the wallpaper but it does all seem to be adding up. Boris has that "man of the people" mystique as part of his wider appeal and this is undoing that quite quickly. He needs to put Carrie in her place a bit or make her go out and get a job if she wants a nanny and £100k wallpaper.
    Carrie using the 'I have exquisite taste' defence was pretty nauseating.

    Boris not being able to control self-entitled extravagance at home doesn't give suggest that he's able to control things in the country.

    It makes him look weak and that's something no prime minister can survive.

    The extravagance is not the issue. If you can afford it, buy whatever you like. It's Johnson thinking he does not have to pay for it that will grate. Other people have to buy their wallpaper and child care. Why not him?

    Because people like him have all the emotional maturity of a spoilt 3-year old. I want therefore I get.
    I have been wondering whether the reason he has no money for wallpaper is because he’s paying Ursula von der Leyen to fuck everything up, so he won’t be seen as the worst politician in Europe.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    Leon said:

    "An SNP majority is a guarantee of another independence referendum." https://twitter.com/ScotTories/status/1389220146632437763
    Scots Tories did not get the memo from HYUFD.

    But the Scots Tories are right. Sturgeon has now said she will call a referendum no matter what the UKG decides in the Commons. A wildcat vote, an illegal vote, an advisory vote, that is what she will do - in her own words
    Well on the Westminster poll the SNP are also on the back foot. While I appreciate that UK polls in Scotland are not usually that good, I do think that there is now quite a bit of at least anecdotal evidence that the SNP are facing quite a poor result. This may panic the Nats into some rather rash moves, but we will see.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    edited May 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The UK has recorded one Covid death within 28 days of a positive test across all settings in the latest 24-hour period, official figures show.

    This is the first time since August 30 - also a Bank Holiday weekend - that just one death has been reported.

    It comes as a further 1,649 people tested positive for the virus.

    34,588,600 Britons have had at least one dose of the vaccine, with 15,500,949 now fully vaccinated.

    Telegraph

    Still not on the daily summary yet.

    But a fall in both cases and deaths though there might be a bank holiday factor involved.
    Yes, and we're still going to get stuck with facemasks indefinitely.
    No! Compulsory masks are ending. You guys just will not believe me till it happens, will you?

    Below is the specific legislation which legally mandates masks in particular locations.

    This will be scrapped from 21 June - I agree with you on this, I don't think the government will back-track on their road map.

    However, as I have posted before I think that the government will fail to provide sufficient direction for certain businesses/organisations to abandon an expectation that they are worn (along with other measures such as perspex screens, the ridiculous 2m yellow lines in shops, hand gel as you walk into places, etc). Particular areas which concern me most include the public sector (inc schools and councils), public transport, gyms (at least at entry and exit), care homes and some indoor pubs, restaurants and shops. I suspect that signage will remain saying that masks should be worn, most will comply, and those that don't will be hectored and shamed into complying.

    The end result will be dragging our heels out of this awful life for no sound reason.

    Hope I'm wrong.

    www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/contents/made
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    Possibly.

    But its a warning to Boris.

    His slack personal management causes him problems and the Carrie Antoinette stuff does rile voters.

    If he's sensible (yes, I know) and learns from events then he's been given another piece of luck.
    Yes, what seems to have registered for my friends is the "why does she need a nanny?" stuff more than the wallpaper but it does all seem to be adding up. Boris has that "man of the people" mystique as part of his wider appeal and this is undoing that quite quickly. He needs to put Carrie in her place a bit or make her go out and get a job if she wants a nanny and £100k wallpaper.
    Carrie using the 'I have exquisite taste' defence was pretty nauseating.

    Boris not being able to control self-entitled extravagance at home doesn't give suggest that he's able to control things in the country.

    It makes him look weak and that's something no prime minister can survive.

    The extravagance is not the issue. If you can afford it, buy whatever you like. It's Johnson thinking he does not have to pay for it that will grate. Other people have to buy their wallpaper and child care. Why not him?

    Because people like him have all the emotional maturity of a spoilt 3-year old. I want therefore I get.
    I have been wondering whether the reason he has no money for wallpaper is because he’s paying Ursula von der Leyen to fuck everything up, so he won’t be seen as the worst politician in Europe.
    I do not think she needs paying to be fair, she is a natural at doing that entirely by herself
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374
    edited May 2021

    Although roughly 10% of people seem to have given up wearing masks on the Tube, I suspect we will be wearing masks there for some time yet.

    A point I think everyone is overloooking is that while the government can order us to wear masks, they cannot demand we show proof of exemption.

    Therefore, all that is needed not to wear one is a verbal statement that you are exempt. Anyone who challenges you over that is committing an offence under the Equalities Act, because they would be treating someone with a disability differently from someone without one.

    In effect, therefore, they are voluntary.

    So far, people are still sufficiently nervous/resigned to keep them on. If we are told that they are to be kept for ever because JVT and that daft deputy of his whose name I can never remember have a mask fetish, I think that will change rather suddenly.

    Which means the sensible thing is to abandon them now - when they are clearly as much use as Amanda Spielmann’s brain cell - in case they are genuinely needed again. No sense in antagonising people with an unenforceable law for no reason.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213

    It's the quality of posts that counts, not the quantity. I am completely certifiable.

    Love your posts. Keep them coming.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,411

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    I think it's a (temporary) firming up of Labour voting intent, and a corresponding minor fall-off of Tory intent, and it's worth noting the fieldwork for these polls was taken at the peak of the stories last week.

    I'm not so sure it will stick.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The UK has recorded one Covid death within 28 days of a positive test across all settings in the latest 24-hour period, official figures show.

    This is the first time since August 30 - also a Bank Holiday weekend - that just one death has been reported.

    It comes as a further 1,649 people tested positive for the virus.

    34,588,600 Britons have had at least one dose of the vaccine, with 15,500,949 now fully vaccinated.

    Telegraph

    Still not on the daily summary yet.

    But a fall in both cases and deaths though there might be a bank holiday factor involved.
    Yes, and we're still going to get stuck with facemasks indefinitely.
    No! Compulsory masks are ending. You guys just will not believe me till it happens, will you?

    Below is the specific legislation which legally mandates masks in particular locations.

    This will be scrapped from 21 June - I agree with you on this, I don't think the government will back-track on their road map.

    However, as I have posted before I think that the government will fail to provide sufficient direction for certain businesses/organisations to abandon an expectation that they are worn (along with other measures such as perspex screens, the ridiculous 2m yellow lines in shops, hand gel as you walk into places, etc). Particular areas which concern me most include the public sector (inc schools and councils), public transport, gyms (at least at entry and exit), care homes and some indoor pubs, restaurants and shops. I suspect that signage will remain saying that masks should be worn, most will comply, and those that don't will be hectored and shamed into complying.

    The end result will be dragging our heels out of this awful life for no sound reason.

    Hope I'm wrong.

    www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/contents/made
    I expect masks to be required on public transport and possibly inside shops for the foreseeable future.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The UK has recorded one Covid death within 28 days of a positive test across all settings in the latest 24-hour period, official figures show.

    This is the first time since August 30 - also a Bank Holiday weekend - that just one death has been reported.

    It comes as a further 1,649 people tested positive for the virus.

    34,588,600 Britons have had at least one dose of the vaccine, with 15,500,949 now fully vaccinated.

    Telegraph

    Still not on the daily summary yet.

    But a fall in both cases and deaths though there might be a bank holiday factor involved.
    Yes, and we're still going to get stuck with facemasks indefinitely.
    No! Compulsory masks are ending. You guys just will not believe me till it happens, will you?

    Below is the specific legislation which legally mandates masks in particular locations.

    This will be scrapped from 21 June - I agree with you on this, I don't think the government will back-track on their road map.

    However, as I have posted before I think that the government will fail to provide sufficient direction for certain businesses/organisations to abandon an expectation that they are worn (along with other measures such as perspex screens, the ridiculous 2m yellow lines in shops, hand gel as you walk into places, etc). Particular areas which concern me most include the public sector (inc schools and councils), public transport, gyms (at least at entry and exit), care homes and some indoor pubs, restaurants and shops. I suspect that signage will remain saying that masks should be worn, most will comply, and those that don't will be hectored and shamed into complying.

    The end result will be dragging our heels out of this awful life for no sound reason.

    Hope I'm wrong.

    www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/contents/made
    I expect masks to be required on public transport and possibly inside shops for the foreseeable future.
    Required by whom when they are not required by those that govern us?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,411
    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    Possibly.

    But its a warning to Boris.

    His slack personal management causes him problems and the Carrie Antoinette stuff does rile voters.

    If he's sensible (yes, I know) and learns from events then he's been given another piece of luck.
    Yes, what seems to have registered for my friends is the "why does she need a nanny?" stuff more than the wallpaper but it does all seem to be adding up. Boris has that "man of the people" mystique as part of his wider appeal and this is undoing that quite quickly. He needs to put Carrie in her place a bit or make her go out and get a job if she wants a nanny and £100k wallpaper.
    Also, those of us who have been bored and actually saved money during the pandemic forget that there is a whole swathe of people for whom the pandemic has been massively difficult, and there will be a long overhang of debt, unemployment, bankruptcy and eviction. Carrie Antoinette chose the worst possible time to be going about her conspicuous consumption.
    But then, you have people like the Hartlepool voter who says that after what Boris has been through over the last year he deserves a bit of nice wallpaper.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,411
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The UK has recorded one Covid death within 28 days of a positive test across all settings in the latest 24-hour period, official figures show.

    This is the first time since August 30 - also a Bank Holiday weekend - that just one death has been reported.

    It comes as a further 1,649 people tested positive for the virus.

    34,588,600 Britons have had at least one dose of the vaccine, with 15,500,949 now fully vaccinated.

    Telegraph

    Still not on the daily summary yet.

    But a fall in both cases and deaths though there might be a bank holiday factor involved.
    Yes, and we're still going to get stuck with facemasks indefinitely.
    I don't think we are, simply because people will rebel.

    When we're down to a few hundred cases a day, a handful of deaths, the NHS is untroubled (by Covid) on one will wear masks, except the really worried well

    I'll never wear one unless it is legally and practically enforced. ie I am told on pain of a fine, there and then, put it on. There will be millions like me. Fuck the masks
    Hang on, I thought you were all for dropping the C-bomb on anyone who didn't want to wear a mask, and wanted Van-Tam's head on a plate?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The UK has recorded one Covid death within 28 days of a positive test across all settings in the latest 24-hour period, official figures show.

    This is the first time since August 30 - also a Bank Holiday weekend - that just one death has been reported.

    It comes as a further 1,649 people tested positive for the virus.

    34,588,600 Britons have had at least one dose of the vaccine, with 15,500,949 now fully vaccinated.

    Telegraph

    Still not on the daily summary yet.

    But a fall in both cases and deaths though there might be a bank holiday factor involved.
    Yes, and we're still going to get stuck with facemasks indefinitely.
    No! Compulsory masks are ending. You guys just will not believe me till it happens, will you?

    Below is the specific legislation which legally mandates masks in particular locations.

    This will be scrapped from 21 June - I agree with you on this, I don't think the government will back-track on their road map.

    However, as I have posted before I think that the government will fail to provide sufficient direction for certain businesses/organisations to abandon an expectation that they are worn (along with other measures such as perspex screens, the ridiculous 2m yellow lines in shops, hand gel as you walk into places, etc). Particular areas which concern me most include the public sector (inc schools and councils), public transport, gyms (at least at entry and exit), care homes and some indoor pubs, restaurants and shops. I suspect that signage will remain saying that masks should be worn, most will comply, and those that don't will be hectored and shamed into complying.

    The end result will be dragging our heels out of this awful life for no sound reason.

    Hope I'm wrong.

    www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/contents/made
    I think you are - on a very marginal balance of probabilities - more likely to be wrong than right. My feeling down here is that people are desperate to get rid of them, they are pushing the boundaries already.

    Yet you outline perfectly the big risk: that an institutionalised public continue to believe mask wearing is law. Like the ‘law’ of trespass was (or still is, depending on one’s interpretation) it will be a ‘law’ that is not a law.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2021
    Some money going on labour in Hartlepool over on Betfair

    1.68 con
    2.46 lab
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The UK has recorded one Covid death within 28 days of a positive test across all settings in the latest 24-hour period, official figures show.

    This is the first time since August 30 - also a Bank Holiday weekend - that just one death has been reported.

    It comes as a further 1,649 people tested positive for the virus.

    34,588,600 Britons have had at least one dose of the vaccine, with 15,500,949 now fully vaccinated.

    Telegraph

    Still not on the daily summary yet.

    But a fall in both cases and deaths though there might be a bank holiday factor involved.
    Yes, and we're still going to get stuck with facemasks indefinitely.
    No! Compulsory masks are ending. You guys just will not believe me till it happens, will you?

    Below is the specific legislation which legally mandates masks in particular locations.

    This will be scrapped from 21 June - I agree with you on this, I don't think the government will back-track on their road map.

    However, as I have posted before I think that the government will fail to provide sufficient direction for certain businesses/organisations to abandon an expectation that they are worn (along with other measures such as perspex screens, the ridiculous 2m yellow lines in shops, hand gel as you walk into places, etc). Particular areas which concern me most include the public sector (inc schools and councils), public transport, gyms (at least at entry and exit), care homes and some indoor pubs, restaurants and shops. I suspect that signage will remain saying that masks should be worn, most will comply, and those that don't will be hectored and shamed into complying.

    The end result will be dragging our heels out of this awful life for no sound reason.

    Hope I'm wrong.

    www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/contents/made
    Of all the Covid restrictions, I find mask wearing the most onerous; the one I am most looking forward to being lifted. As a glasses wearer, I haven’t found a way of stopping them from steaming up. I can’t see a thing without them, and when wearing a mask, I can’t see a thing with them. If I have to wear a mask, it will stop me from visiting pubs and shops. If we have to wear masks, the Government will have to keep business support.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    "An SNP majority is a guarantee of another independence referendum." https://twitter.com/ScotTories/status/1389220146632437763
    Scots Tories did not get the memo from HYUFD.

    But the Scots Tories are right. Sturgeon has now said she will call a referendum no matter what the UKG decides in the Commons. A wildcat vote, an illegal vote, an advisory vote, that is what she will do - in her own words
    Well on the Westminster poll the SNP are also on the back foot. While I appreciate that UK polls in Scotland are not usually that good, I do think that there is now quite a bit of at least anecdotal evidence that the SNP are facing quite a poor result. This may panic the Nats into some rather rash moves, but we will see.
    keep dreaming
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The UK has recorded one Covid death within 28 days of a positive test across all settings in the latest 24-hour period, official figures show.

    This is the first time since August 30 - also a Bank Holiday weekend - that just one death has been reported.

    It comes as a further 1,649 people tested positive for the virus.

    34,588,600 Britons have had at least one dose of the vaccine, with 15,500,949 now fully vaccinated.

    Telegraph

    Still not on the daily summary yet.

    But a fall in both cases and deaths though there might be a bank holiday factor involved.
    Yes, and we're still going to get stuck with facemasks indefinitely.
    No! Compulsory masks are ending. You guys just will not believe me till it happens, will you?

    Below is the specific legislation which legally mandates masks in particular locations.

    This will be scrapped from 21 June - I agree with you on this, I don't think the government will back-track on their road map.

    However, as I have posted before I think that the government will fail to provide sufficient direction for certain businesses/organisations to abandon an expectation that they are worn (along with other measures such as perspex screens, the ridiculous 2m yellow lines in shops, hand gel as you walk into places, etc). Particular areas which concern me most include the public sector (inc schools and councils), public transport, gyms (at least at entry and exit), care homes and some indoor pubs, restaurants and shops. I suspect that signage will remain saying that masks should be worn, most will comply, and those that don't will be hectored and shamed into complying.

    The end result will be dragging our heels out of this awful life for no sound reason.

    Hope I'm wrong.

    www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/contents/made
    Of all the Covid restrictions, I find mask wearing the most onerous; the one I am most looking forward to being lifted. As a glasses wearer, I haven’t found a way of stopping them from steaming up. I can’t see a thing without them, and when wearing a mask, I can’t see a thing with them. If I have to wear a mask, it will stop me from visiting pubs and shops. If we have to wear masks, the Government will have to keep business support.
    Imagine being at school for several hours a day in that scenario. And having to read and write while doing it.

    Masks may have benefits in certain settings - shops that can’t be properly ventilated, for example - but we’ve gone waaaay over the top with them.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Off topic:

    Just heard a plane go over, so checked on Flightradar24. It's the Coast Guard. Flying over West Yorkshire. Strange.

    Now back to that book...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The UK has recorded one Covid death within 28 days of a positive test across all settings in the latest 24-hour period, official figures show.

    This is the first time since August 30 - also a Bank Holiday weekend - that just one death has been reported.

    It comes as a further 1,649 people tested positive for the virus.

    34,588,600 Britons have had at least one dose of the vaccine, with 15,500,949 now fully vaccinated.

    Telegraph

    Still not on the daily summary yet.

    But a fall in both cases and deaths though there might be a bank holiday factor involved.
    Yes, and we're still going to get stuck with facemasks indefinitely.
    No! Compulsory masks are ending. You guys just will not believe me till it happens, will you?

    Below is the specific legislation which legally mandates masks in particular locations.

    This will be scrapped from 21 June - I agree with you on this, I don't think the government will back-track on their road map.

    However, as I have posted before I think that the government will fail to provide sufficient direction for certain businesses/organisations to abandon an expectation that they are worn (along with other measures such as perspex screens, the ridiculous 2m yellow lines in shops, hand gel as you walk into places, etc). Particular areas which concern me most include the public sector (inc schools and councils), public transport, gyms (at least at entry and exit), care homes and some indoor pubs, restaurants and shops. I suspect that signage will remain saying that masks should be worn, most will comply, and those that don't will be hectored and shamed into complying.

    The end result will be dragging our heels out of this awful life for no sound reason.

    Hope I'm wrong.

    www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/contents/made
    I get you. I'm sure there will be some of that. It won't be just bang (!) and overnight there's total and complete normality. But I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I think the overall vibe will be, compulsion gone, majority resuming their pre-pandemic ways, a minority carrying some of the caution forwards for a while, just a very small minority behaving as if the pandemic is still raging, and for businesses, end of support and quid pro quo free of restrictions and paraphernalia, a few keeping some of it in place but only on commercial grounds, ie due to customer demand, to protect turnover, and public sector? ok, I guess just a bit more likely in places to be sticky, but not imo to any serious extent.

    We'll soon find out.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2021
    Party election broadcast by Labour.

    Very Blairite in terms of policy positioning.

    Starmer came across as normal, if a little uninspiring.

    I thought the line “getting the nhs waiting lists down” was quite clever and forward looking. It’s a big problem that the tories can’t easily solve that’s gonna be in & out of the headlines over the next couple of years.

    8/10
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The UK has recorded one Covid death within 28 days of a positive test across all settings in the latest 24-hour period, official figures show.

    This is the first time since August 30 - also a Bank Holiday weekend - that just one death has been reported.

    It comes as a further 1,649 people tested positive for the virus.

    34,588,600 Britons have had at least one dose of the vaccine, with 15,500,949 now fully vaccinated.

    Telegraph

    Still not on the daily summary yet.

    But a fall in both cases and deaths though there might be a bank holiday factor involved.
    Yes, and we're still going to get stuck with facemasks indefinitely.
    No! Compulsory masks are ending. You guys just will not believe me till it happens, will you?

    Below is the specific legislation which legally mandates masks in particular locations.

    This will be scrapped from 21 June - I agree with you on this, I don't think the government will back-track on their road map.

    However, as I have posted before I think that the government will fail to provide sufficient direction for certain businesses/organisations to abandon an expectation that they are worn (along with other measures such as perspex screens, the ridiculous 2m yellow lines in shops, hand gel as you walk into places, etc). Particular areas which concern me most include the public sector (inc schools and councils), public transport, gyms (at least at entry and exit), care homes and some indoor pubs, restaurants and shops. I suspect that signage will remain saying that masks should be worn, most will comply, and those that don't will be hectored and shamed into complying.

    The end result will be dragging our heels out of this awful life for no sound reason.

    Hope I'm wrong.

    www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/contents/made
    I get you. I'm sure there will be some of that. It won't be just bang (!) and overnight there's total and complete normality. But I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I think the overall vibe will be, compulsion gone, majority resuming their pre-pandemic ways, a minority carrying some of the caution forwards for a while, just a very small minority behaving as if the pandemic is still raging, and for businesses, end of support and quid pro quo free of restrictions and paraphernalia, a few keeping some of it in place but only on commercial grounds, ie due to customer demand, to protect turnover, and public sector? ok, I guess just a bit more likely in places to be sticky, but not imo to any serious extent.

    We'll soon find out.
    I am very sure that masks in schools will be abandoned this month, if only because lawsuits are being brought by well-heeled and sharp-elbowed parents.

    Although the scum at the DfE have extended once to massage their silly egos, the moment they realise they are liable for damages (despite their mealy-mouthed hypocrisy in making them ‘advisory’ while in practice forcing schools to use them) I think their tune will change dramatically.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The UK has recorded one Covid death within 28 days of a positive test across all settings in the latest 24-hour period, official figures show.

    This is the first time since August 30 - also a Bank Holiday weekend - that just one death has been reported.

    It comes as a further 1,649 people tested positive for the virus.

    34,588,600 Britons have had at least one dose of the vaccine, with 15,500,949 now fully vaccinated.

    Telegraph

    Still not on the daily summary yet.

    But a fall in both cases and deaths though there might be a bank holiday factor involved.
    Yes, and we're still going to get stuck with facemasks indefinitely.
    No! Compulsory masks are ending. You guys just will not believe me till it happens, will you?

    Below is the specific legislation which legally mandates masks in particular locations.

    This will be scrapped from 21 June - I agree with you on this, I don't think the government will back-track on their road map.

    However, as I have posted before I think that the government will fail to provide sufficient direction for certain businesses/organisations to abandon an expectation that they are worn (along with other measures such as perspex screens, the ridiculous 2m yellow lines in shops, hand gel as you walk into places, etc). Particular areas which concern me most include the public sector (inc schools and councils), public transport, gyms (at least at entry and exit), care homes and some indoor pubs, restaurants and shops. I suspect that signage will remain saying that masks should be worn, most will comply, and those that don't will be hectored and shamed into complying.

    The end result will be dragging our heels out of this awful life for no sound reason.

    Hope I'm wrong.

    www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/contents/made
    I think you are - on a very marginal balance of probabilities - more likely to be wrong than right. My feeling down here is that people are desperate to get rid of them, they are pushing the boundaries already.

    Yet you outline perfectly the big risk: that an institutionalised public continue to believe mask wearing is law. Like the ‘law’ of trespass was (or still is, depending on one’s interpretation) it will be a ‘law’ that is not a law.
    Plus businesses have imbibed a strange notion that they could get sued by someone who catches Covid in their premises and their indemnity insurance company won't cover.

    I said as early as last April/May - and was backed-up by @Cyclefree - that this would become a big issue and that the government needed to get a law passed that said that no business could be sued in this scenario or else our recovery out of all this would be hindered.

    It was mentioned at some point months ago that the government could act as indemnity insurer of last resort but I don't think this idea had legs. This would cost nothing because it would be impossible for anyone to make the allegation stick as to where they contracted the virus from because, obvs, it doesn't come imprinted with the giver and the exact time caught!

    Indemnity insurance is going to be a big issue.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    The covid daily update still not worthy of the name. Now two hours late. Government scared of the headlines if it’s too positive? One for the conspiracy theorists to chew on...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The UK has recorded one Covid death within 28 days of a positive test across all settings in the latest 24-hour period, official figures show.

    This is the first time since August 30 - also a Bank Holiday weekend - that just one death has been reported.

    It comes as a further 1,649 people tested positive for the virus.

    34,588,600 Britons have had at least one dose of the vaccine, with 15,500,949 now fully vaccinated.

    Telegraph

    Still not on the daily summary yet.

    But a fall in both cases and deaths though there might be a bank holiday factor involved.
    Yes, and we're still going to get stuck with facemasks indefinitely.
    No! Compulsory masks are ending. You guys just will not believe me till it happens, will you?

    Below is the specific legislation which legally mandates masks in particular locations.

    This will be scrapped from 21 June - I agree with you on this, I don't think the government will back-track on their road map.

    However, as I have posted before I think that the government will fail to provide sufficient direction for certain businesses/organisations to abandon an expectation that they are worn (along with other measures such as perspex screens, the ridiculous 2m yellow lines in shops, hand gel as you walk into places, etc). Particular areas which concern me most include the public sector (inc schools and councils), public transport, gyms (at least at entry and exit), care homes and some indoor pubs, restaurants and shops. I suspect that signage will remain saying that masks should be worn, most will comply, and those that don't will be hectored and shamed into complying.

    The end result will be dragging our heels out of this awful life for no sound reason.

    Hope I'm wrong.

    www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/contents/made
    I think you are - on a very marginal balance of probabilities - more likely to be wrong than right. My feeling down here is that people are desperate to get rid of them, they are pushing the boundaries already.

    Yet you outline perfectly the big risk: that an institutionalised public continue to believe mask wearing is law. Like the ‘law’ of trespass was (or still is, depending on one’s interpretation) it will be a ‘law’ that is not a law.
    Plus businesses have imbibed a strange notion that they could get sued by someone who catches Covid in their premises and their indemnity insurance company won't cover.

    I said as early as last April/May - and was backed-up by @Cyclefree - that this would become a big issue and that the government needed to get a law passed that said that no business could be sued in this scenario or else our recovery out of all this would be hindered.

    It was mentioned at some point months ago that the government could act as indemnity insurer of last resort but I don't think this idea had legs. This would cost nothing because it would be impossible for anyone to make the allegation stick as to where they contracted the virus from because, obvs, it doesn't come imprinted with the giver and the exact time caught!

    Indemnity insurance is going to be a big issue.
    How could anyone prove that?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    It's the quality of posts that counts, not the quantity. I am completely certifiable.

    If you’re the new one, might I suggest that your disguise is even more lamentable than usual?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,589

    MaxPB said:

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    Possibly.

    But its a warning to Boris.

    His slack personal management causes him problems and the Carrie Antoinette stuff does rile voters.

    If he's sensible (yes, I know) and learns from events then he's been given another piece of luck.
    Yes, what seems to have registered for my friends is the "why does she need a nanny?" stuff more than the wallpaper but it does all seem to be adding up. Boris has that "man of the people" mystique as part of his wider appeal and this is undoing that quite quickly. He needs to put Carrie in her place a bit or make her go out and get a job if she wants a nanny and £100k wallpaper.
    Carrie using the 'I have exquisite taste' defence was pretty nauseating.

    Boris not being able to control self-entitled extravagance at home doesn't give suggest that he's able to control things in the country.

    It makes him look weak and that's something no prime minister can survive.

    The extravagance is not the issue. If you can afford it, buy whatever you like. It's Johnson thinking he does not have to pay for it that will grate. Other people have to buy their wallpaper and child care. Why not him?

    Certainly the whining about not having enough money doesn't go down well.

    But for some people conspicuous consumption when many are struggling doesn't look good.

    Especially so when the conspicuous consumption is done in a vulgar, gaudy manner.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (3 May):

    Conservative 40% (-4)
    Labour 38% (+4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)

    Changes +/- 26 April

    Follow @redfieldwilton to see our weekly VI first.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-3-may-2021/ https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1389248422100733959/photo/1

    Sir Keir Strarmer's John Lewis wallpaper stunt has done the trick.
    I told you we needed to wait for that to feed through.

    Now we have the boxing ring photos for the next poll.
    I fear for the wellbeing of a few people if Starmer takes the lead following the wallpaper stunt and the boxing photoshoot.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    ydoethur said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The UK has recorded one Covid death within 28 days of a positive test across all settings in the latest 24-hour period, official figures show.

    This is the first time since August 30 - also a Bank Holiday weekend - that just one death has been reported.

    It comes as a further 1,649 people tested positive for the virus.

    34,588,600 Britons have had at least one dose of the vaccine, with 15,500,949 now fully vaccinated.

    Telegraph

    Still not on the daily summary yet.

    But a fall in both cases and deaths though there might be a bank holiday factor involved.
    Yes, and we're still going to get stuck with facemasks indefinitely.
    No! Compulsory masks are ending. You guys just will not believe me till it happens, will you?

    Below is the specific legislation which legally mandates masks in particular locations.

    This will be scrapped from 21 June - I agree with you on this, I don't think the government will back-track on their road map.

    However, as I have posted before I think that the government will fail to provide sufficient direction for certain businesses/organisations to abandon an expectation that they are worn (along with other measures such as perspex screens, the ridiculous 2m yellow lines in shops, hand gel as you walk into places, etc). Particular areas which concern me most include the public sector (inc schools and councils), public transport, gyms (at least at entry and exit), care homes and some indoor pubs, restaurants and shops. I suspect that signage will remain saying that masks should be worn, most will comply, and those that don't will be hectored and shamed into complying.

    The end result will be dragging our heels out of this awful life for no sound reason.

    Hope I'm wrong.

    www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/contents/made
    I think you are - on a very marginal balance of probabilities - more likely to be wrong than right. My feeling down here is that people are desperate to get rid of them, they are pushing the boundaries already.

    Yet you outline perfectly the big risk: that an institutionalised public continue to believe mask wearing is law. Like the ‘law’ of trespass was (or still is, depending on one’s interpretation) it will be a ‘law’ that is not a law.
    Plus businesses have imbibed a strange notion that they could get sued by someone who catches Covid in their premises and their indemnity insurance company won't cover.

    I said as early as last April/May - and was backed-up by @Cyclefree - that this would become a big issue and that the government needed to get a law passed that said that no business could be sued in this scenario or else our recovery out of all this would be hindered.

    It was mentioned at some point months ago that the government could act as indemnity insurer of last resort but I don't think this idea had legs. This would cost nothing because it would be impossible for anyone to make the allegation stick as to where they contracted the virus from because, obvs, it doesn't come imprinted with the giver and the exact time caught!

    Indemnity insurance is going to be a big issue.
    How could anyone prove that?
    Exactly.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213

    The covid daily update still not worthy of the name. Now two hours late. Government scared of the headlines if it’s too positive? One for the conspiracy theorists to chew on...

    Just due to Bank Holiday surely?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,411
    IanB2 said:

    It's the quality of posts that counts, not the quantity. I am completely certifiable.

    If you’re the new one, might I suggest that your disguise is even more lamentable than usual?
    Why would that be necessary given the account for the previous one is still "active"?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The UK has recorded one Covid death within 28 days of a positive test across all settings in the latest 24-hour period, official figures show.

    This is the first time since August 30 - also a Bank Holiday weekend - that just one death has been reported.

    It comes as a further 1,649 people tested positive for the virus.

    34,588,600 Britons have had at least one dose of the vaccine, with 15,500,949 now fully vaccinated.

    Telegraph

    Still not on the daily summary yet.

    But a fall in both cases and deaths though there might be a bank holiday factor involved.
    Yes, and we're still going to get stuck with facemasks indefinitely.
    No! Compulsory masks are ending. You guys just will not believe me till it happens, will you?

    Below is the specific legislation which legally mandates masks in particular locations.

    This will be scrapped from 21 June - I agree with you on this, I don't think the government will back-track on their road map.

    However, as I have posted before I think that the government will fail to provide sufficient direction for certain businesses/organisations to abandon an expectation that they are worn (along with other measures such as perspex screens, the ridiculous 2m yellow lines in shops, hand gel as you walk into places, etc). Particular areas which concern me most include the public sector (inc schools and councils), public transport, gyms (at least at entry and exit), care homes and some indoor pubs, restaurants and shops. I suspect that signage will remain saying that masks should be worn, most will comply, and those that don't will be hectored and shamed into complying.

    The end result will be dragging our heels out of this awful life for no sound reason.

    Hope I'm wrong.

    www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/contents/made
    I think you are - on a very marginal balance of probabilities - more likely to be wrong than right. My feeling down here is that people are desperate to get rid of them, they are pushing the boundaries already.

    Yet you outline perfectly the big risk: that an institutionalised public continue to believe mask wearing is law. Like the ‘law’ of trespass was (or still is, depending on one’s interpretation) it will be a ‘law’ that is not a law.
    Indemnity insurance is going to be a big issue.
    Not something you hear every day.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Quincel said:

    Leon said:

    Man arrested in the streets of London.... simply for preaching Christianity

    Meanwhile, professional football matches stop for the breaking of the Ramadan fast: because, "respect"


    https://twitter.com/one_jason/status/1388760623081721856?s=20

    The video doesn't show what he was saying before the police arrest him following what they can be heard to describe as 'Complaints from members of the public that [you] have caused them harm and distress by making [homophobic statements]'. Since we don't hear what he said, I really don't see how we can conclude if their behaviour is justified.
    What do you think he would have to say for a legal line to be crossed? How likely would he have done that?
    Marriage is between a man and woman only?
    All gay people will go to hell?
    All gay people should go to hell?
    Gay people will go to hell and you should help them get there?
    Gay people are trying to pervert your children, dont let them, resist.
    The last two are inviting action by the listeners
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    IanB2 said:

    It's the quality of posts that counts, not the quantity. I am completely certifiable.

    If you’re the new one, might I suggest that your disguise is even more lamentable than usual?
    Why would that be necessary given the account for the previous one is still "active"?
    Previous transitions have overlapped.

    But this one does look like a parody. Parodying a parody.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited May 2021
    Stocky said:

    The covid daily update still not worthy of the name. Now two hours late. Government scared of the headlines if it’s too positive? One for the conspiracy theorists to chew on...

    Just due to Bank Holiday surely?
    I’ve donned my tinfoil hat mate 😎
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    By the way, many thanks to the London-based posters who aided me re: family visit to London yesterday.

    Despite the cold we had a really good day at Spitalfields Market (superb breakfast at Marcus Brothers), Brick Lane and then the inevitable Oxford Street. Meal in Carnaby Street. The top part of Brick Lane was our favourite - really lively and a joy. Best day I've had in ages.

    Tube very quiet. 80% - 90% masked I'd say. Same percentage in shops.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    edited May 2021

    Off topic:

    Just heard a plane go over, so checked on Flightradar24. It's the Coast Guard. Flying over West Yorkshire. Strange.

    Now back to that book...

    Looks like it’s landed at Donny.

    Edit: a quick Twitter search shows it seems to be based in Donny, it took off from there yesterday to patrol the Cardigan Bay Area. Guess it deploys nationally, Donny’s a good central base.

    Aren’t Bank Holidays dull? I should be in a nice warm, dry boozer. Not tracking coastguard planes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    Possibly.

    But its a warning to Boris.

    His slack personal management causes him problems and the Carrie Antoinette stuff does rile voters.

    If he's sensible (yes, I know) and learns from events then he's been given another piece of luck.
    I couldn't really care less about his wife or his wallpaper. I'm more concerned that he is reverse ferreting on the end of restrictions on June 21st.
    I think if he'd brought forward the May 17th restriction ending by one week it would have given some space for keeping other restrictions in July.

    But it seems that restrictions can only be changed in one direction.
    If journalists were doing their job properly, they would be asking Ministers this: if any restrictions continue beyond June, will the support for business affected by those restrictions continue getting support? And if there is no support then surely there should be no restrictions. You cannot have one without the other.

    Masks in pubs and restaurants is not normal. They have to go and if they don't such businesses cannot stand on their own two feet.

    So which is it: normality and no support or continuing restrictions and continuing support?
    Maybe I’m the only one on here who, having compulsorily worn a mask everywhere outside my own house for more than a year, doesn’t think too much about it any more.

    Masks in pub toilets and worn by staff is an insignificant restriction, compared to pubs having to take half their chairs out, sign people in and stop groups mixing. I agree that taking chairs out by order of government needs to come with financial support attached.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,411
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    It's the quality of posts that counts, not the quantity. I am completely certifiable.

    If you’re the new one, might I suggest that your disguise is even more lamentable than usual?
    Why would that be necessary given the account for the previous one is still "active"?
    Previous transitions have overlapped.

    But this one does look like a parody. Parodying a parody.
    I thought it was the ban hammer that triggered the regeneration.

    I'm not sure I could be arsed with the effort required to deliver that level of meta.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited May 2021

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (3 May):

    Conservative 40% (-4)
    Labour 38% (+4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)

    Changes +/- 26 April

    Follow @redfieldwilton to see our weekly VI first.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-3-may-2021/ https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1389248422100733959/photo/1

    Sir Keir Strarmer's John Lewis wallpaper stunt has done the trick.
    I told you we needed to wait for that to feed through.

    Now we have the boxing ring photos for the next poll.
    I fear for the wellbeing of a few people if Starmer takes the lead following the wallpaper stunt and the boxing photoshoot.
    The boxing photoshoot was dreadful and whoever decided to do that should be fired from a cannon into the sun.

    The John Lewis wallpaper perusal however was really good and I don't understand why people thought it was naff.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    It's the quality of posts that counts, not the quantity. I am completely certifiable.

    If you’re the new one, might I suggest that your disguise is even more lamentable than usual?
    Why would that be necessary given the account for the previous one is still "active"?
    Previous transitions have overlapped.

    But this one does look like a parody. Parodying a parody.
    Right on cue, this from the Guardian:

    Temporary rises in air pollution may impair memory and thinking in older men, according to research that indicates even short-term spikes in airborne particles can be harmful to brain health.

    Scientists found that the men’s cognitive performance fell following rises in air pollution during the month before testing, even when peak levels remained below safety thresholds for toxic air set by the World Health Organization and national regulators.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,411
    IanB2 said:

    It's the quality of posts that counts, not the quantity. I am completely certifiable.

    If you’re the new one, might I suggest that your disguise is even more lamentable than usual?
    He should come back as IanB3.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    It's the quality of posts that counts, not the quantity. I am completely certifiable.

    Heresy!

    As a house becomes more grand with more bricks, so too does a PBer become grander with more posts, till their words echo with the majesty of a palace of thought itself.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (3 May):

    Conservative 40% (-4)
    Labour 38% (+4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)

    Changes +/- 26 April

    Follow @redfieldwilton to see our weekly VI first.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-3-may-2021/ https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1389248422100733959/photo/1

    Sir Keir Strarmer's John Lewis wallpaper stunt has done the trick.
    I told you we needed to wait for that to feed through.

    Now we have the boxing ring photos for the next poll.
    I fear for the wellbeing of a few people if Starmer takes the lead following the wallpaper stunt and the boxing photoshoot.
    The boxing photoshoot was dreadful and whoever decided to do that should be fired from a cannon into the sun.

    The John Lewis wallpaper perusal however was really good and I don't understand why people thought it was naff.
    The JL wallpaper perusal was like Miliband and Balls going to Greggs.

    The problem is that Starmer is trying to portray himself as the serious guy, and silly stunts to keep the Village gossipmongers happy play hard against that reputation.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (3 May):

    Conservative 40% (-4)
    Labour 38% (+4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)

    Changes +/- 26 April

    Follow @redfieldwilton to see our weekly VI first.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-3-may-2021/ https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1389248422100733959/photo/1

    Sir Keir Strarmer's John Lewis wallpaper stunt has done the trick.
    I told you we needed to wait for that to feed through.

    Now we have the boxing ring photos for the next poll.
    I fear for the wellbeing of a few people if Starmer takes the lead following the wallpaper stunt and the boxing photoshoot.
    Don't even have the affluent Tory voters away for Bank Holiday excuse this time
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited May 2021
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The UK has recorded one Covid death within 28 days of a positive test across all settings in the latest 24-hour period, official figures show.

    This is the first time since August 30 - also a Bank Holiday weekend - that just one death has been reported.

    It comes as a further 1,649 people tested positive for the virus.

    34,588,600 Britons have had at least one dose of the vaccine, with 15,500,949 now fully vaccinated.

    Telegraph

    Still not on the daily summary yet.

    But a fall in both cases and deaths though there might be a bank holiday factor involved.
    Yes, and we're still going to get stuck with facemasks indefinitely.
    No! Compulsory masks are ending. You guys just will not believe me till it happens, will you?

    Below is the specific legislation which legally mandates masks in particular locations.

    This will be scrapped from 21 June - I agree with you on this, I don't think the government will back-track on their road map.

    However, as I have posted before I think that the government will fail to provide sufficient direction for certain businesses/organisations to abandon an expectation that they are worn (along with other measures such as perspex screens, the ridiculous 2m yellow lines in shops, hand gel as you walk into places, etc). Particular areas which concern me most include the public sector (inc schools and councils), public transport, gyms (at least at entry and exit), care homes and some indoor pubs, restaurants and shops. I suspect that signage will remain saying that masks should be worn, most will comply, and those that don't will be hectored and shamed into complying.

    The end result will be dragging our heels out of this awful life for no sound reason.

    Hope I'm wrong.

    www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/contents/made
    I think you are - on a very marginal balance of probabilities - more likely to be wrong than right. My feeling down here is that people are desperate to get rid of them, they are pushing the boundaries already.

    Yet you outline perfectly the big risk: that an institutionalised public continue to believe mask wearing is law. Like the ‘law’ of trespass was (or still is, depending on one’s interpretation) it will be a ‘law’ that is not a law.
    Plus businesses have imbibed a strange notion that they could get sued by someone who catches Covid in their premises and their indemnity insurance company won't cover.

    I said as early as last April/May - and was backed-up by @Cyclefree - that this would become a big issue and that the government needed to get a law passed that said that no business could be sued in this scenario or else our recovery out of all this would be hindered.

    It was mentioned at some point months ago that the government could act as indemnity insurer of last resort but I don't think this idea had legs. This would cost nothing because it would be impossible for anyone to make the allegation stick as to where they contracted the virus from because, obvs, it doesn't come imprinted with the giver and the exact time caught!

    Indemnity insurance is going to be a big issue.
    Would the increased likelihood of detailed genetic tracing not be a problem, from that point of view? If I go to the Spoons and catch pox subvariant ABC123456, and a patron has been found to have that very variant, same time, same place, but developing before me then, on thbe balance of probabilities, which is needed in a civil case ...
    [edited]
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited May 2021
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (3 May):

    Conservative 40% (-4)
    Labour 38% (+4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)

    Changes +/- 26 April

    Follow @redfieldwilton to see our weekly VI first.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-3-may-2021/ https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1389248422100733959/photo/1

    Sir Keir Strarmer's John Lewis wallpaper stunt has done the trick.
    I told you we needed to wait for that to feed through.

    Now we have the boxing ring photos for the next poll.
    I fear for the wellbeing of a few people if Starmer takes the lead following the wallpaper stunt and the boxing photoshoot.
    The boxing photoshoot was dreadful and whoever decided to do that should be fired from a cannon into the sun.

    The John Lewis wallpaper perusal however was really good and I don't understand why people thought it was naff.
    I agree, the boxing photoshoot was like dad dancing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    MaxPB said:

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    Possibly.

    But its a warning to Boris.

    His slack personal management causes him problems and the Carrie Antoinette stuff does rile voters.

    If he's sensible (yes, I know) and learns from events then he's been given another piece of luck.
    Yes, what seems to have registered for my friends is the "why does she need a nanny?" stuff more than the wallpaper but it does all seem to be adding up. Boris has that "man of the people" mystique as part of his wider appeal and this is undoing that quite quickly. He needs to put Carrie in her place a bit or make her go out and get a job if she wants a nanny and £100k wallpaper.
    Carrie using the 'I have exquisite taste' defence was pretty nauseating.

    Boris not being able to control self-entitled extravagance at home doesn't give suggest that he's able to control things in the country.

    It makes him look weak and that's something no prime minister can survive.
    Particularly one relying on a certain part of the male electorate, perhaps?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (3 May):

    Conservative 40% (-4)
    Labour 38% (+4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)

    Changes +/- 26 April

    Follow @redfieldwilton to see our weekly VI first.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-3-may-2021/ https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1389248422100733959/photo/1

    Sir Keir Strarmer's John Lewis wallpaper stunt has done the trick.
    I told you we needed to wait for that to feed through.

    Now we have the boxing ring photos for the next poll.
    I fear for the wellbeing of a few people if Starmer takes the lead following the wallpaper stunt and the boxing photoshoot.
    The boxing photoshoot was dreadful and whoever decided to do that should be fired from a cannon into the sun.

    The John Lewis wallpaper perusal however was really good and I don't understand why people thought it was naff.
    The JL wallpaper perusal was like Miliband and Balls going to Greggs.

    The problem is that Starmer is trying to portray himself as the serious guy, and silly stunts to keep the Village gossipmongers happy play hard against that reputation.
    I think it works the other way around.

    He’s too serious. Too staid. Too suited.

    The wallpaper stunt hinted at a less serious side. It softens him up a bit.

    At worst it was harmless.

    At best, probably raised a few smirks from centrist dads across the country, who he’ll need to carry if he’s to get a majority.

    We’re probably in danger of overanalysing it, though. It probably didn’t/won’t shift a single vote.
  • An empty vessel makes the most noise, but a brick is more sound.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    It's the quality of posts that counts, not the quantity. I am completely certifiable.

    If you’re the new one, might I suggest that your disguise is even more lamentable than usual?
    Why would that be necessary given the account for the previous one is still "active"?
    Previous transitions have overlapped.

    But this one does look like a parody. Parodying a parody.
    Hang on, surely one has to finish before another one starts. That's ok. I can live with that. But parallel ids - no that's not cricket. I'm sending a letter in if that's going on.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    Possibly.

    But its a warning to Boris.

    His slack personal management causes him problems and the Carrie Antoinette stuff does rile voters.

    If he's sensible (yes, I know) and learns from events then he's been given another piece of luck.
    I couldn't really care less about his wife or his wallpaper. I'm more concerned that he is reverse ferreting on the end of restrictions on June 21st.
    I think if he'd brought forward the May 17th restriction ending by one week it would have given some space for keeping other restrictions in July.

    But it seems that restrictions can only be changed in one direction.
    If journalists were doing their job properly, they would be asking Ministers this: if any restrictions continue beyond June, will the support for business affected by those restrictions continue getting support? And if there is no support then surely there should be no restrictions. You cannot have one without the other.

    Masks in pubs and restaurants is not normal. They have to go and if they don't such businesses cannot stand on their own two feet.

    So which is it: normality and no support or continuing restrictions and continuing support?
    Maybe I’m the only one on here who, having compulsorily worn a mask everywhere outside my own house for more than a year, doesn’t think too much about it any more.

    Masks in pub toilets and worn by staff is an insignificant restriction, compared to pubs having to take half their chairs out, sign people in and stop groups mixing. I agree that taking chairs out by order of government needs to come with financial support attached.
    Wrong. Nobody wants to go to a nice restaurant and be confronted with the masked hordes. My wife doesn’t even like going shopping when people are wearing masks, never mind going out on the town. @Cyclefree is right: they are not normal.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    What was the last by-election where the LDs had been second to the Tories at the general election that they failed to win?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited May 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (3 May):

    Conservative 40% (-4)
    Labour 38% (+4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)

    Changes +/- 26 April

    Follow @redfieldwilton to see our weekly VI first.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-3-may-2021/ https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1389248422100733959/photo/1

    Sir Keir Strarmer's John Lewis wallpaper stunt has done the trick.
    I told you we needed to wait for that to feed through.

    Now we have the boxing ring photos for the next poll.
    I fear for the wellbeing of a few people if Starmer takes the lead following the wallpaper stunt and the boxing photoshoot.
    The boxing photoshoot was dreadful and whoever decided to do that should be fired from a cannon into the sun.

    The John Lewis wallpaper perusal however was really good and I don't understand why people thought it was naff.
    The JL wallpaper perusal was like Miliband and Balls going to Greggs.

    The problem is that Starmer is trying to portray himself as the serious guy, and silly stunts to keep the Village gossipmongers happy play hard against that reputation.
    He has to let his hair down occasionally though - otherwise everyone says he's too dull.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited May 2021

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    Possibly.

    But its a warning to Boris.

    His slack personal management causes him problems and the Carrie Antoinette stuff does rile voters.

    If he's sensible (yes, I know) and learns from events then he's been given another piece of luck.
    I couldn't really care less about his wife or his wallpaper. I'm more concerned that he is reverse ferreting on the end of restrictions on June 21st.
    I think if he'd brought forward the May 17th restriction ending by one week it would have given some space for keeping other restrictions in July.

    But it seems that restrictions can only be changed in one direction.
    If journalists were doing their job properly, they would be asking Ministers this: if any restrictions continue beyond June, will the support for business affected by those restrictions continue getting support? And if there is no support then surely there should be no restrictions. You cannot have one without the other.

    Masks in pubs and restaurants is not normal. They have to go and if they don't such businesses cannot stand on their own two feet.

    So which is it: normality and no support or continuing restrictions and continuing support?
    Maybe I’m the only one on here who, having compulsorily worn a mask everywhere outside my own house for more than a year, doesn’t think too much about it any more.

    Masks in pub toilets and worn by staff is an insignificant restriction, compared to pubs having to take half their chairs out, sign people in and stop groups mixing. I agree that taking chairs out by order of government needs to come with financial support attached.
    Wrong. Nobody wants to go to a nice restaurant and be confronted with the masked hordes. My wife doesn’t even like going shopping when people are wearing masks, never mind going out on the town. @Cyclefree is right: they are not normal.
    Watching the snooker over the weekend is weird and creepy .Nice to see audiences in but I would not go if I had to wear a mask . Even if they do prevent spread (unproven ) there is no serious disease to spread anymore. In most elections I normally vote tory . Would have this one as well given the vaccine roll out success. I will not be doing so though because they are far too slow in lifting restrictions this year
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    What was the last by-election where the LDs had been second to the Tories at the general election that they failed to win?

    Henley 2008?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Cicero said:

    dixiedean said:

    ping said:

    NE sub sample

    31% con
    31% lab

    Who are the rest?
    Nippers? :D
    Cornish Nationalists!

    Edit - Cicero warned the Roman Republic against Carthage. Pitt the Elder warned Britain against France and Pitt the Younger against the French Revolution. Winston Churchill warned the world against Bolshevism and Nazism.

    It is my historic role, to warn PBers against the dangers of extreme Cornish Nationalism.
    I would have warned against Carthage, but Carthage was already destroyed in 146BC (according to your barbarous calender) which was 40 years before I was born.

    It was M.P. Cato the Elder, great grandfather of my friend M.P. Cato "the Younger", who was quite keen on the demolition of the Punic Capital... "Carthago delenda est" and all that.

    I wouldn´t wish to claim credit where none was due.
    I stand corrected - yet again!

    And thank you for your refreshing honesty. Most long-dead ancients would be happy to take credit where it was NOT due!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    An empty vessel makes the most noise, but a brick is more sound.

    If something that one knows will cause much distress and confusion can be strangled at birth, should it be?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Looking forward to reading Tim Marshall's The Power of Geography - his Prisoners of Geography was a very good read. Opening seems to set the stage "There are undoubtedly economic and geopolitical giants [USA, China, Russia, collectively the EU] that continue to have huge sway in global affairs...but the smaller nations matter too. Geopolitics involve alliances...this is a time when the big powers need small powers on their side as well as vice-versa. It gives these countries, such as Turkey, Saudi Arabia, the UK, an opportunity to strategically position themselves for future power...Geography is not fate, but it matters".
  • kinabalu said:

    An empty vessel makes the most noise, but a brick is more sound.

    If something that one knows will cause much distress and confusion can be strangled at birth, should it be?
    I do not question the wisdom of the Divine Author.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    Possibly.

    But its a warning to Boris.

    His slack personal management causes him problems and the Carrie Antoinette stuff does rile voters.

    If he's sensible (yes, I know) and learns from events then he's been given another piece of luck.
    I couldn't really care less about his wife or his wallpaper. I'm more concerned that he is reverse ferreting on the end of restrictions on June 21st.
    I think if he'd brought forward the May 17th restriction ending by one week it would have given some space for keeping other restrictions in July.

    But it seems that restrictions can only be changed in one direction.
    If journalists were doing their job properly, they would be asking Ministers this: if any restrictions continue beyond June, will the support for business affected by those restrictions continue getting support? And if there is no support then surely there should be no restrictions. You cannot have one without the other.

    Masks in pubs and restaurants is not normal. They have to go and if they don't such businesses cannot stand on their own two feet.

    So which is it: normality and no support or continuing restrictions and continuing support?
    Maybe I’m the only one on here who, having compulsorily worn a mask everywhere outside my own house for more than a year, doesn’t think too much about it any more.

    Masks in pub toilets and worn by staff is an insignificant restriction, compared to pubs having to take half their chairs out, sign people in and stop groups mixing. I agree that taking chairs out by order of government needs to come with financial support attached.
    Wrong. Nobody wants to go to a nice restaurant and be confronted with the masked hordes. My wife doesn’t even like going shopping when people are wearing masks, never mind going out on the town. @Cyclefree is right: they are not normal.
    Watching the snooker over the weekend is weird and creepy .Nice to see audiences in but I would not go if I had to wear a mask . Even if they do prevent spread (unproven ) there is no serious disease to spread anymore. In most elections I normally vote tory . Would have this one as well given the vaccine roll out success. I will not be doing so though because they are far too slow in lifting restrictions this year
    And, there are some people who are happy to keep wearing masks to reduce cold and flu transmission. Before Covid this sort of oddness was very fringe.

    I seriously wonder what sort of world these people want to live in.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    For sake of simplicity (my speciality!) and brevity (not so much) may PBers refer to the parliamentary constituency of "Chesham and Amersham" as "TwoHams" (as distinct from "Newham")?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Little doubt Boris wallpaper has cut through

    Now for Thursday
    This has the look of the fuel strike to me. An Incumbent unpopular for a microsecond and then onwards and upwards to victory.

    Hartlepool will demonstrate to Johnson that his awesomeness makes him invincible, and the lapdogs of the Tory Party will continue to follow obediently in his wake with their tongues hanging out. And quite frankly, with Starmer pulling pathetic boxing gloves, and John Lewis stunts, left, right, and centre, why shouldn't they?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374
    edited May 2021

    What was the last by-election where the LDs had been second to the Tories at the general election that they failed to win?

    Henley, 2008.

    After a lot of checking, so I’m happy it’s the right one.

    Witney they had lost second at the 2015 election to Labour.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (3 May):

    Conservative 40% (-4)
    Labour 38% (+4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)

    Changes +/- 26 April

    Follow @redfieldwilton to see our weekly VI first.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-3-may-2021/ https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1389248422100733959/photo/1

    Sir Keir Strarmer's John Lewis wallpaper stunt has done the trick.
    I told you we needed to wait for that to feed through.

    Now we have the boxing ring photos for the next poll.
    I fear for the wellbeing of a few people if Starmer takes the lead following the wallpaper stunt and the boxing photoshoot.
    The boxing photoshoot was dreadful and whoever decided to do that should be fired from a cannon into the sun.

    The John Lewis wallpaper perusal however was really good and I don't understand why people thought it was naff.
    The JL wallpaper perusal was like Miliband and Balls going to Greggs.

    The problem is that Starmer is trying to portray himself as the serious guy, and silly stunts to keep the Village gossipmongers happy play hard against that reputation.
    He has to let his hair down occasionally though - otherwise everyone says he's too dull.
    Oh, it’s a very difficult line to draw, and really easy to screw up in both directions!

    I actually give Starmer more credit for the boxing stunt. At least he was getting down with the voters, rather than pandering to the Village. Politicians should still try and avoid learning new skills in public though, he’d have benefited from an hour in a gym first. They didn’t need to print “Vote Labour” on his red gloves though, that was a step too far.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    Possibly.

    But its a warning to Boris.

    His slack personal management causes him problems and the Carrie Antoinette stuff does rile voters.

    If he's sensible (yes, I know) and learns from events then he's been given another piece of luck.
    I couldn't really care less about his wife or his wallpaper. I'm more concerned that he is reverse ferreting on the end of restrictions on June 21st.
    I think if he'd brought forward the May 17th restriction ending by one week it would have given some space for keeping other restrictions in July.

    But it seems that restrictions can only be changed in one direction.
    If journalists were doing their job properly, they would be asking Ministers this: if any restrictions continue beyond June, will the support for business affected by those restrictions continue getting support? And if there is no support then surely there should be no restrictions. You cannot have one without the other.

    Masks in pubs and restaurants is not normal. They have to go and if they don't such businesses cannot stand on their own two feet.

    So which is it: normality and no support or continuing restrictions and continuing support?
    Maybe I’m the only one on here who, having compulsorily worn a mask everywhere outside my own house for more than a year, doesn’t think too much about it any more.

    Masks in pub toilets and worn by staff is an insignificant restriction, compared to pubs having to take half their chairs out, sign people in and stop groups mixing. I agree that taking chairs out by order of government needs to come with financial support attached.
    Wrong. Nobody wants to go to a nice restaurant and be confronted with the masked hordes. My wife doesn’t even like going shopping when people are wearing masks, never mind going out on the town. @Cyclefree is right: they are not normal.
    Watching the snooker over the weekend is weird and creepy .Nice to see audiences in but I would not go if I had to wear a mask . Even if they do prevent spread (unproven ) there is no serious disease to spread anymore. In most elections I normally vote tory . Would have this one as well given the vaccine roll out success. I will not be doing so though because they are far too slow in lifting restrictions this year
    And, there are some people who are happy to keep wearing masks to reduce cold and flu transmission. Before Covid this sort of oddness was very fringe.

    I seriously wonder what sort of world these people want to live in.
    A world where they're free to wear a mask for health reasons without social pressure or stigma IF they want to?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    It's the 'chuckled for several seconds' that's really disturbing. Presumably that's Plan B if Alba are a complete bust.

    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1389222621028421637?s=20
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (3 May):

    Conservative 40% (-4)
    Labour 38% (+4)
    Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
    SNP 4% (-1)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)

    Changes +/- 26 April

    Follow @redfieldwilton to see our weekly VI first.

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-3-may-2021/ https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1389248422100733959/photo/1

    Sir Keir Strarmer's John Lewis wallpaper stunt has done the trick.
    I told you we needed to wait for that to feed through.

    Now we have the boxing ring photos for the next poll.
    I fear for the wellbeing of a few people if Starmer takes the lead following the wallpaper stunt and the boxing photoshoot.
    The boxing photoshoot was dreadful and whoever decided to do that should be fired from a cannon into the sun.

    The John Lewis wallpaper perusal however was really good and I don't understand why people thought it was naff.
    The JL wallpaper perusal was like Miliband and Balls going to Greggs.

    The problem is that Starmer is trying to portray himself as the serious guy, and silly stunts to keep the Village gossipmongers happy play hard against that reputation.
    He has to let his hair down occasionally though - otherwise everyone says he's too dull.
    I seldom agree with Sandpit, however he is exactly right.

    Johnson looks a plonker when he pulls these stunts, and we know he is a d**k. A little decorum from Mr Starmer please. Desist with the stupid stunts.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374

    For sake of simplicity (my speciality!) and brevity (not so much) may PBers refer to the parliamentary constituency of "Chesham and Amersham" as "TwoHams" (as distinct from "Newham")?

    No, because ‘two hams’ might refer to Johnson and Raab.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited May 2021

    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    Possibly.

    But its a warning to Boris.

    His slack personal management causes him problems and the Carrie Antoinette stuff does rile voters.

    If he's sensible (yes, I know) and learns from events then he's been given another piece of luck.
    I couldn't really care less about his wife or his wallpaper. I'm more concerned that he is reverse ferreting on the end of restrictions on June 21st.
    I think if he'd brought forward the May 17th restriction ending by one week it would have given some space for keeping other restrictions in July.

    But it seems that restrictions can only be changed in one direction.
    If journalists were doing their job properly, they would be asking Ministers this: if any restrictions continue beyond June, will the support for business affected by those restrictions continue getting support? And if there is no support then surely there should be no restrictions. You cannot have one without the other.

    Masks in pubs and restaurants is not normal. They have to go and if they don't such businesses cannot stand on their own two feet.

    So which is it: normality and no support or continuing restrictions and continuing support?
    Maybe I’m the only one on here who, having compulsorily worn a mask everywhere outside my own house for more than a year, doesn’t think too much about it any more.

    Masks in pub toilets and worn by staff is an insignificant restriction, compared to pubs having to take half their chairs out, sign people in and stop groups mixing. I agree that taking chairs out by order of government needs to come with financial support attached.
    Wrong. Nobody wants to go to a nice restaurant and be confronted with the masked hordes. My wife doesn’t even like going shopping when people are wearing masks, never mind going out on the town. @Cyclefree is right: they are not normal.
    Watching the snooker over the weekend is weird and creepy .Nice to see audiences in but I would not go if I had to wear a mask . Even if they do prevent spread (unproven ) there is no serious disease to spread anymore. In most elections I normally vote tory . Would have this one as well given the vaccine roll out success. I will not be doing so though because they are far too slow in lifting restrictions this year
    And, there are some people who are happy to keep wearing masks to reduce cold and flu transmission. Before Covid this sort of oddness was very fringe.

    I seriously wonder what sort of world these people want to live in.
    A world where they're free to wear a mask for health reasons without social pressure or stigma IF they want to?
    Here's a prediction: people will continue wearing masks in the puritan United States for a lot longer than they will here in Europe.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited May 2021

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    Possibly.

    But its a warning to Boris.

    His slack personal management causes him problems and the Carrie Antoinette stuff does rile voters.

    If he's sensible (yes, I know) and learns from events then he's been given another piece of luck.
    I couldn't really care less about his wife or his wallpaper. I'm more concerned that he is reverse ferreting on the end of restrictions on June 21st.
    I think if he'd brought forward the May 17th restriction ending by one week it would have given some space for keeping other restrictions in July.

    But it seems that restrictions can only be changed in one direction.
    If journalists were doing their job properly, they would be asking Ministers this: if any restrictions continue beyond June, will the support for business affected by those restrictions continue getting support? And if there is no support then surely there should be no restrictions. You cannot have one without the other.

    Masks in pubs and restaurants is not normal. They have to go and if they don't such businesses cannot stand on their own two feet.

    So which is it: normality and no support or continuing restrictions and continuing support?
    Maybe I’m the only one on here who, having compulsorily worn a mask everywhere outside my own house for more than a year, doesn’t think too much about it any more.

    Masks in pub toilets and worn by staff is an insignificant restriction, compared to pubs having to take half their chairs out, sign people in and stop groups mixing. I agree that taking chairs out by order of government needs to come with financial support attached.
    Wrong. Nobody wants to go to a nice restaurant and be confronted with the masked hordes. My wife doesn’t even like going shopping when people are wearing masks, never mind going out on the town. @Cyclefree is right: they are not normal.
    Watching the snooker over the weekend is weird and creepy .Nice to see audiences in but I would not go if I had to wear a mask . Even if they do prevent spread (unproven ) there is no serious disease to spread anymore. In most elections I normally vote tory . Would have this one as well given the vaccine roll out success. I will not be doing so though because they are far too slow in lifting restrictions this year
    Think it's pretty obvious (at least to yours truly) based on experience of past year, that masks DO reduce spread of infections, for example common cold.

    Hay fever and other such allergies, not so much. EDIT Actually, come to think of it, having my apartment windows open, where I am NOT wearing a mask, means I'm prime target for pollen, etc. regardless of outdoor masking.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374
    So - who’s your money on for tonight?

    Interesting to note so many people were wearing their masks wrongly.

    Murphy seems to have decided on all out attack.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The survey also found that most independence supporters agreed with other verifiably false statements relating to official Scottish Government figures. These are myths widely shared on social media which, to be blunt, imply that the Scottish Government’s economists are idiots.

    - 54 per cent of independence supporters agree that 'Scottish tax revenues are understated because of Scottish exports leaving via English ports'

    - 66 per cent agree that 'Scottish tax revenues are understated because taxes generated by the whisky industry are not properly allocated to Scotland'

    - 55 per cent agree that 'Scotland is only seen to be running a deficit because some costs outside of Scotland, like HS2 and infrastructure spending in the South East, are charged to Scotland'

    This denial of the Scottish Government’s economic data and belief in myths about how the figures are compiled is consistent with our survey’s finding that only 20 per cent of independence supporters are aware that total public spending in Scotland is more than the amount raised in taxes.


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/independence-case-is-built-on-myths-denial-and-conspiracy-theories
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Andy_JS said:

    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    Possibly.

    But its a warning to Boris.

    His slack personal management causes him problems and the Carrie Antoinette stuff does rile voters.

    If he's sensible (yes, I know) and learns from events then he's been given another piece of luck.
    I couldn't really care less about his wife or his wallpaper. I'm more concerned that he is reverse ferreting on the end of restrictions on June 21st.
    I think if he'd brought forward the May 17th restriction ending by one week it would have given some space for keeping other restrictions in July.

    But it seems that restrictions can only be changed in one direction.
    If journalists were doing their job properly, they would be asking Ministers this: if any restrictions continue beyond June, will the support for business affected by those restrictions continue getting support? And if there is no support then surely there should be no restrictions. You cannot have one without the other.

    Masks in pubs and restaurants is not normal. They have to go and if they don't such businesses cannot stand on their own two feet.

    So which is it: normality and no support or continuing restrictions and continuing support?
    Maybe I’m the only one on here who, having compulsorily worn a mask everywhere outside my own house for more than a year, doesn’t think too much about it any more.

    Masks in pub toilets and worn by staff is an insignificant restriction, compared to pubs having to take half their chairs out, sign people in and stop groups mixing. I agree that taking chairs out by order of government needs to come with financial support attached.
    Wrong. Nobody wants to go to a nice restaurant and be confronted with the masked hordes. My wife doesn’t even like going shopping when people are wearing masks, never mind going out on the town. @Cyclefree is right: they are not normal.
    Watching the snooker over the weekend is weird and creepy .Nice to see audiences in but I would not go if I had to wear a mask . Even if they do prevent spread (unproven ) there is no serious disease to spread anymore. In most elections I normally vote tory . Would have this one as well given the vaccine roll out success. I will not be doing so though because they are far too slow in lifting restrictions this year
    And, there are some people who are happy to keep wearing masks to reduce cold and flu transmission. Before Covid this sort of oddness was very fringe.

    I seriously wonder what sort of world these people want to live in.
    A world where they're free to wear a mask for health reasons without social pressure or stigma IF they want to?
    Here's a prediction: people will continue wearing masks in the puritan United States for a lot longer than they will here in Europe.
    Considering mask usage in America is much lower than in Europe that's a bad prediction.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374

    The survey also found that most independence supporters agreed with other verifiably false statements relating to official Scottish Government figures. These are myths widely shared on social media which, to be blunt, imply that the Scottish Government’s economists are idiots.

    Well, that’s hardly controversial. They are economists, FFS.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    ydoethur said:

    So - who’s your money on for tonight?

    Interesting to note so many people were wearing their masks wrongly.

    Murphy seems to have decided on all out attack.

    Money's on Selby. But crumbs is he ever a grind to watch.
    All guns blazing is the way to go down.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    ydoethur said:

    So - who’s your money on for tonight?

    Interesting to note so many people were wearing their masks wrongly.

    Murphy seems to have decided on all out attack.

    Selby
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374
    edited May 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    So - who’s your money on for tonight?

    Interesting to note so many people were wearing their masks wrongly.

    Murphy seems to have decided on all out attack.

    Selby
    If that was done with the intention of jinxing him, you’ve made a very good start.

    Edit. Ouch. Now *that* is unfortunate.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Andy_JS said:

    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    Possibly.

    But its a warning to Boris.

    His slack personal management causes him problems and the Carrie Antoinette stuff does rile voters.

    If he's sensible (yes, I know) and learns from events then he's been given another piece of luck.
    I couldn't really care less about his wife or his wallpaper. I'm more concerned that he is reverse ferreting on the end of restrictions on June 21st.
    I think if he'd brought forward the May 17th restriction ending by one week it would have given some space for keeping other restrictions in July.

    But it seems that restrictions can only be changed in one direction.
    If journalists were doing their job properly, they would be asking Ministers this: if any restrictions continue beyond June, will the support for business affected by those restrictions continue getting support? And if there is no support then surely there should be no restrictions. You cannot have one without the other.

    Masks in pubs and restaurants is not normal. They have to go and if they don't such businesses cannot stand on their own two feet.

    So which is it: normality and no support or continuing restrictions and continuing support?
    Maybe I’m the only one on here who, having compulsorily worn a mask everywhere outside my own house for more than a year, doesn’t think too much about it any more.

    Masks in pub toilets and worn by staff is an insignificant restriction, compared to pubs having to take half their chairs out, sign people in and stop groups mixing. I agree that taking chairs out by order of government needs to come with financial support attached.
    Wrong. Nobody wants to go to a nice restaurant and be confronted with the masked hordes. My wife doesn’t even like going shopping when people are wearing masks, never mind going out on the town. @Cyclefree is right: they are not normal.
    Watching the snooker over the weekend is weird and creepy .Nice to see audiences in but I would not go if I had to wear a mask . Even if they do prevent spread (unproven ) there is no serious disease to spread anymore. In most elections I normally vote tory . Would have this one as well given the vaccine roll out success. I will not be doing so though because they are far too slow in lifting restrictions this year
    And, there are some people who are happy to keep wearing masks to reduce cold and flu transmission. Before Covid this sort of oddness was very fringe.

    I seriously wonder what sort of world these people want to live in.
    A world where they're free to wear a mask for health reasons without social pressure or stigma IF they want to?
    Here's a prediction: people will continue wearing masks in the puritan United States for a lot longer than they will here in Europe.
    Considering mask usage in America is much lower than in Europe that's a bad prediction.
    It'll linger longer there for the same reason it isn't as high there in the first place. Because the whole thing has been so politicised.

    Some GOPers have been refusing to wear a mask, because of politics.
    Some Democrats will continue to wear one long after its unnecessary, because of politics.
  • Wearing masks is a natural part of the human condition.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    It's the 'chuckled for several seconds' that's really disturbing. Presumably that's Plan B if Alba are a complete bust.

    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1389222621028421637?s=20

    I don't support Nicola politically at all, but greatly admire her. I hope and think that in any contest between her and Salmond she will come first (by a mile); and that in any contest between her and Boris she will come an honourable second.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    Possibly.

    But its a warning to Boris.

    His slack personal management causes him problems and the Carrie Antoinette stuff does rile voters.

    If he's sensible (yes, I know) and learns from events then he's been given another piece of luck.
    I couldn't really care less about his wife or his wallpaper. I'm more concerned that he is reverse ferreting on the end of restrictions on June 21st.
    I think if he'd brought forward the May 17th restriction ending by one week it would have given some space for keeping other restrictions in July.

    But it seems that restrictions can only be changed in one direction.
    If journalists were doing their job properly, they would be asking Ministers this: if any restrictions continue beyond June, will the support for business affected by those restrictions continue getting support? And if there is no support then surely there should be no restrictions. You cannot have one without the other.

    Masks in pubs and restaurants is not normal. They have to go and if they don't such businesses cannot stand on their own two feet.

    So which is it: normality and no support or continuing restrictions and continuing support?
    Maybe I’m the only one on here who, having compulsorily worn a mask everywhere outside my own house for more than a year, doesn’t think too much about it any more.

    Masks in pub toilets and worn by staff is an insignificant restriction, compared to pubs having to take half their chairs out, sign people in and stop groups mixing. I agree that taking chairs out by order of government needs to come with financial support attached.
    Wrong. Nobody wants to go to a nice restaurant and be confronted with the masked hordes. My wife doesn’t even like going shopping when people are wearing masks, never mind going out on the town. @Cyclefree is right: they are not normal.
    Watching the snooker over the weekend is weird and creepy .Nice to see audiences in but I would not go if I had to wear a mask . Even if they do prevent spread (unproven ) there is no serious disease to spread anymore. In most elections I normally vote tory . Would have this one as well given the vaccine roll out success. I will not be doing so though because they are far too slow in lifting restrictions this year
    And, there are some people who are happy to keep wearing masks to reduce cold and flu transmission. Before Covid this sort of oddness was very fringe.

    I seriously wonder what sort of world these people want to live in.
    A world where they're free to wear a mask for health reasons without social pressure or stigma IF they want to?
    Best thing about the pandemic was being able to wear a warm face covering whilst out and about during winter without people looking at you funny.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Andy_JS said:

    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    I am not convinced by the poll shifts we are seeing. If you look at the below the line numbers, Johnson's own favourability levels have hardly dropped at all (except with Opinium). That says to me that we are not hearing anything other than a bit of mood music. All the political fundamentals heavily favour the Tories: the vaccine roll-out trucking, lockdown easing, house prices rising, economic confidence soaring, the triple lock as firm as ever. Nothing has really changed. We could well be back to double digit Tory leads pretty quickly.

    Possibly.

    But its a warning to Boris.

    His slack personal management causes him problems and the Carrie Antoinette stuff does rile voters.

    If he's sensible (yes, I know) and learns from events then he's been given another piece of luck.
    I couldn't really care less about his wife or his wallpaper. I'm more concerned that he is reverse ferreting on the end of restrictions on June 21st.
    I think if he'd brought forward the May 17th restriction ending by one week it would have given some space for keeping other restrictions in July.

    But it seems that restrictions can only be changed in one direction.
    If journalists were doing their job properly, they would be asking Ministers this: if any restrictions continue beyond June, will the support for business affected by those restrictions continue getting support? And if there is no support then surely there should be no restrictions. You cannot have one without the other.

    Masks in pubs and restaurants is not normal. They have to go and if they don't such businesses cannot stand on their own two feet.

    So which is it: normality and no support or continuing restrictions and continuing support?
    Maybe I’m the only one on here who, having compulsorily worn a mask everywhere outside my own house for more than a year, doesn’t think too much about it any more.

    Masks in pub toilets and worn by staff is an insignificant restriction, compared to pubs having to take half their chairs out, sign people in and stop groups mixing. I agree that taking chairs out by order of government needs to come with financial support attached.
    Wrong. Nobody wants to go to a nice restaurant and be confronted with the masked hordes. My wife doesn’t even like going shopping when people are wearing masks, never mind going out on the town. @Cyclefree is right: they are not normal.
    Watching the snooker over the weekend is weird and creepy .Nice to see audiences in but I would not go if I had to wear a mask . Even if they do prevent spread (unproven ) there is no serious disease to spread anymore. In most elections I normally vote tory . Would have this one as well given the vaccine roll out success. I will not be doing so though because they are far too slow in lifting restrictions this year
    And, there are some people who are happy to keep wearing masks to reduce cold and flu transmission. Before Covid this sort of oddness was very fringe.

    I seriously wonder what sort of world these people want to live in.
    A world where they're free to wear a mask for health reasons without social pressure or stigma IF they want to?
    Here's a prediction: people will continue wearing masks in the puritan United States for a lot longer than they will here in Europe.
    Disagree, and certainly "puritanism" has nothing do with it, though am not exactly sure WHAT you do mean to be honest.

    Do think there will be increase in number of people with impaired immune systems and other serious medical conditions who will wear masks as a personal precaution (which by definition will skew older) because they've now got them and social pressure against wearing them in public is greatly reduced.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    It's the 'chuckled for several seconds' that's really disturbing. Presumably that's Plan B if Alba are a complete bust.

    https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1389222621028421637?s=20

    It’s a f**king creepy image. What’s really sad about it is that he was (in a positive way) a colossus, his impact on late 20th/early 21st Century British, let alone Scottish, politics has been immense. Now he’s a sad punchline, vying with Galloway for the most pathetic figure of this election.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ydoethur said:

    So - who’s your money on for tonight?

    Interesting to note so many people were wearing their masks wrongly.

    Murphy seems to have decided on all out attack.

    The Jester.

    Come the day of my revolution, Rob Walker will pay dearly for his stupid nicknames.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374

    ydoethur said:

    So - who’s your money on for tonight?

    Interesting to note so many people were wearing their masks wrongly.

    Murphy seems to have decided on all out attack.

    The Jester.

    Come the day of my revolution, Rob Walker will pay dearly for his stupid nicknames.
    Not that stupid catchphrase about ‘getting the boys on the baize?’

    It sounds like some kind of bizarre pederastic ritual when he says it like that.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    So - who’s your money on for tonight?

    Interesting to note so many people were wearing their masks wrongly.

    Murphy seems to have decided on all out attack.

    Selby
    If that was done with the intention of jinxing him, you’ve made a very good start.

    Edit. Ouch. Now *that* is unfortunate.
    Yep. Needs ballrun as well as to play well. Not a propitious start.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited May 2021
    ydoethur said:

    So - who’s your money on for tonight?

    Interesting to note so many people were wearing their masks wrongly.

    Murphy seems to have decided on all out attack.

    I'm strong for "the magician" but I can't quite see it. Selby is sheet metal.

    Edit: Yes - a few noses on display.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,374
    Incidentally, anyone who wants to drown in pure snooker geek can try this quiz.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/47883018

    At risk of sounding like a sad person with no life, I got them all right with only one false move and not looking any of them up.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    malcolmg said:

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    "An SNP majority is a guarantee of another independence referendum." https://twitter.com/ScotTories/status/1389220146632437763
    Scots Tories did not get the memo from HYUFD.

    But the Scots Tories are right. Sturgeon has now said she will call a referendum no matter what the UKG decides in the Commons. A wildcat vote, an illegal vote, an advisory vote, that is what she will do - in her own words
    Well on the Westminster poll the SNP are also on the back foot. While I appreciate that UK polls in Scotland are not usually that good, I do think that there is now quite a bit of at least anecdotal evidence that the SNP are facing quite a poor result. This may panic the Nats into some rather rash moves, but we will see.
    keep dreaming
    Might be that dream you had where Sunak had apparently said “a Scottish independence referendum would wreck the UK”

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited May 2021
    ydoethur said:

    The survey also found that most independence supporters agreed with other verifiably false statements relating to official Scottish Government figures. These are myths widely shared on social media which, to be blunt, imply that the Scottish Government’s economists are idiots.

    Well, that’s hardly controversial. They are economists, FFS.

    St Bernard of Woolley: I'm afraid he's at an even greater disadvantage in understanding economics; he's an economist.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Btw. Shaun Murphy is a super nice bloke. Always willing to converse with fans in Online chats. Vastly knowledgeable.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375

    IanB2 said:

    It's the quality of posts that counts, not the quantity. I am completely certifiable.

    If you’re the new one, might I suggest that your disguise is even more lamentable than usual?
    He should come back as IanB3.
    Or Ian B3's predecessor, Ian B4?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Wearing masks is a natural part of the human condition.

    If you’re a Mexican wrestler,,
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,638
    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Re what we were discussing the other day about Grenfell and the construction industry - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/toxic-and-dysfunctional-industry-in-race-to-the-bottom-kmd8n7ct9

    A summary: "“The largest of the many problems in the industry is the broken business model that promotes a race to the bottom in standards. Taken together that is a toxic equation.”

    From an initial reading it sounds very similar to what happened in finance - the obsession with making money to the exclusion of all else has resulted in appalling risk management and a poor culture and nothing will change until the industry realises it has to change. Forcing it to pay up for Grenfell might have kickstarted that change. Instead it has been let off the hook.

    Police
    The construction industry
    Finance
    The Post Office
    The NHS
    The press
    Charities
    Churches

    All of these and others have suffered repeated scandals over the years, in some cases, over decades. All of them have to a greater or lesser extent been in denial of the extent of the problems and what is really needed to effect real change for the better.

    We are far too complacent, far too ready to accept the second and third rate, far too willing to pat ourselves on the back for past glories, far too willing to entrust our governance to fundamentally frivolous and unserious individuals, far too willing to sneer at the incompetences and failings of others instead of addressing the beams in our own eyes. Until we do, nothing much will change for the better.

    The problem I saw regarding the cladding at Grenfell is that the official information looked fine. For me the comparison is VW emissions. The systems for design of buildings is now so complicated that detailed analysis need to be done by engineers. If the information they are using is wrong - design error, product fraud, incompatible designs - then the end result will not be correct. Even those employed to supervise these sort of standards for investors, and I used to work for such a consultant years ago, are reliant on the professional competence of others.

    The best people to speak to are the site foremen. I remember my first time on a building site on work experience and the site foreman got into a row with the surveyor I was with because the drawings whilst attractive, were impossible to build!
    I am quite interested in construction, partly as a result of building a house for the last few years, partly because one of my children's godparents was a builder who taught me quite a lot about how houses work, materials, how to build things etc and partly because of much husband's profession. The builder learnt the old-fashioned way, through a proper apprenticeship and his big beef was that too many people called themselves builders but simply did not have the skills to build houses properly. His other beef was with clients who concentrated on the look and decoration but did not want to spend money on stuff like roofs, plumbing, proper insulation - all the stuff you can't see but which makes a house work well. He said that meant they tended to go for cheap quotes and also made them prey to every type of conman going.

    Having stripped two houses back to the bare bones, it is fascinating to see how they are built and when you see what is involved you realise why it costs - if you want to do it properly. But, curiously, for a property-mad country, we focus too much on the superficial - kitchens and wallpaper - and not enough on the structural stuff. It might even serve as a metaphor for our attitude to many other things as well.
    My father did a 7 year apprenticeship to become a bricklayer. He later taught others at FE College.
    How many such courses and students now?
    You can tell a lot from the brickwork, he assured me.
    Mrs Foxys grandad was a builder. He thought that the postwar labour shortage and building boom meant that any fool could get work on a building site, and hence poor quality workmanship. My own house was built by a small builder 20 years ago, and is better than most, but the quality of the joinery etc is not a patch on my previous prewar houses, so I think he was right.

    On the other hand it is much warmer than any previous house, and it is nice to live in a house where the roof doesn't leak. The latter is quite a novelty to me.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    What was the last by-election where the LDs had been second to the Tories at the general election that they failed to win?

    Penrith?
This discussion has been closed.