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The Welsh look like cementing their role as the Mitch McConnell of British politics – politicalbetti

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited April 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Apparently the clubs took fright at the legislative onslaught being prepared by the government and the potential threat of a windfall tax.

    Looks like Boris won it. Hope the Kop are in good voice...

    The Spanish are definitely blaming Boris. I bet he can’t believe his luck


    https://twitter.com/pubitysportig/status/1384617074740416513?s=21


    Boris Johnson is the main culprit behind the demise of the Super League.’ [@elconfidencial]



    🚨 | English Clubs are currently working under the pressure of Boris Johnson & currently the future of Super League depends on other clubs continuing the project.

    Manchester City pulling OUT has not changed much currently. #ESL 🇪🇺

    https://twitter.com/blancoreport/status/1384621850630758403?s=21
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    12 of the biggest clubs in Europe choosing to compete together in a 22 game season played midweek around their domestic and international commitments, instead of entering the UEFA midweek competitions. Has there not been some degree of hyperbole against it?

    Only someone with little knowledge of football and its followers would make such a comment
    🙂


    Football is changing anyway, in far worse ways than this without anyone kicking up a fuss.

    The players are now cloned in factories, every single one exactly the same, no waist, broad shouldered. Their brains have been programmed by scientists. As result the game is no longer beautiful, it’s more than often sterile, frustrating stalemate, two sides scrapping over slim differentials that’s mostly getting someone booked, or diving. And interest in it is drifting away at an alarming rate because of the way it has changed.

    There can be no sane comment about protecting the beautifully game, without admitting it no longer is. Another truth missing from the orgy of moralising hyperbole, what drove super league sign up wasn’t greed, but issues with debt.
    Much truth in that.
    The other is that the Champions League, whilst high technical quality is bloated, predictable and repetitive.
    The EL even more so. The 8 third place CL teams should not go into the EL.

    If they want to show more CL games, then stop scheduling them simultaneously.
    See. The EL is bloated. But it isn't predictable or repetitive.
    Its groups often throw up surprises. You can't usually predict the two qualifiers. There are different teams in the last sixteen every year, even if Sevilla usually win it.
    No. The 8 shouldn't go into it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,104
    48% of Northern Irish voters now want to scrap the Northern Ireland Protocol to 46% who want to keep it according to a new Lucidtalk poll.

    49% of Northern Irish voters want to stay in the UK, 43% want Irish unity

    https://twitter.com/SuzyJourno/status/1384634966168985602?s=20
  • MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    How bizarre. Boris is getting mucho love from non-British football fans.


    ‘GOD BLESS BORIS’

    https://twitter.com/hojbjergx/status/1384627647611875329?s=21

    https://twitter.com/mufcnico/status/1384628210755899393?s=21

    ‘The Super League died the moment Boris said No’

    https://twitter.com/nketsiah__/status/1384632601118494721?s=21

    Der Boris #Johnson bekommt das #impfen hin verhindert die #SuperLeague

    Baut dem Mann ein Denkmal!

    #NoToSuperLeague

    ****
    Lots more like that

    Yes, I expect the government to bask in some kind of glory on this. It does, from the outside, look as if the legislative and tax threats made a difference for the six English clubs. Boris saved football will become a meme.
    Man Utd statement said that it had listened to fans, the UK government, and other key stakeholders

    So yes, Boris played a huge part in this
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    dixiedean said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    12 of the biggest clubs in Europe choosing to compete together in a 22 game season played midweek around their domestic and international commitments, instead of entering the UEFA midweek competitions. Has there not been some degree of hyperbole against it?

    Only someone with little knowledge of football and its followers would make such a comment
    🙂


    Football is changing anyway, in far worse ways than this without anyone kicking up a fuss.

    The players are now cloned in factories, every single one exactly the same, no waist, broad shouldered. Their brains have been programmed by scientists. As result the game is no longer beautiful, it’s more than often sterile, frustrating stalemate, two sides scrapping over slim differentials that’s mostly getting someone booked, or diving. And interest in it is drifting away at an alarming rate because of the way it has changed.

    There can be no sane comment about protecting the beautifully game, without admitting it no longer is. Another truth missing from the orgy of moralising hyperbole, what drove super league sign up wasn’t greed, but issues with debt.
    Much truth in that.
    The other is that the Champions League, whilst high technical quality is bloated, predictable and repetitive.
    club belonging to fans and communities. 😆
    the toy of a wealthy owner which is administered on his behalf by faceless functionaries. 

    People own football clubs or racehorses for a number of reasons but IMO it should always be done with surplus wealth, wealth you can afford to lose. The two main reasons for ownership are that either these are competitive people who have had success elsewhere and now want to pit their wits against others in a different field, or they are wealthy people who want to have a bit of fun and show off.

    Ownership in the game no longer fits this business model.

    there is a way to apply a business strategy in a high risk sports venture and  you stand to get far more out of it if you put the work in and then are able to reap the rewards because it is so much more satisfying to have helped build something than just getting the credit card out and standing around waiting for people to admire you. 

    most fans are primarily concerned with the first team and its management, if you break down all the different components which make up the business you will see that there are an awful lot of them to which little attention is paid and so they are ripe for malaise.

    pep came out against franchise idea “if it’s not competitive it’s not proper sport” but for months he had been flagging up the debt issue at these big clubs.
    The owners came up with a solution to this. If those who reject it don’t recognise there is a problem to solutionize, this could be quite the pyrrhic victory for fans of these big clubs.

    Are you listening Big G 😆. Like I don’t know football.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    How bizarre. Boris is getting mucho love from non-British football fans.


    ‘GOD BLESS BORIS’

    https://twitter.com/hojbjergx/status/1384627647611875329?s=21

    https://twitter.com/mufcnico/status/1384628210755899393?s=21

    ‘The Super League died the moment Boris said No’

    https://twitter.com/nketsiah__/status/1384632601118494721?s=21

    Der Boris #Johnson bekommt das #impfen hin verhindert die #SuperLeague

    Baut dem Mann ein Denkmal!

    #NoToSuperLeague

    ****
    Lots more like that

    Yes, I expect the government to bask in some kind of glory on this. It does, from the outside, look as if the legislative and tax threats made a difference for the six English clubs. Boris saved football will become a meme.
    Apparently Boris offered to change the law for the EPL so they COULD expel the Stupid Six, and that made quite a difference

    Maybe Boris DID save football
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    12 of the biggest clubs in Europe choosing to compete together in a 22 game season played midweek around their domestic and international commitments, instead of entering the UEFA midweek competitions. Has there not been some degree of hyperbole against it?

    Only someone with little knowledge of football and its followers would make such a comment
    🙂


    Football is changing anyway, in far worse ways than this without anyone kicking up a fuss.

    The players are now cloned in factories, every single one exactly the same, no waist, broad shouldered. Their brains have been programmed by scientists. As result the game is no longer beautiful, it’s more than often sterile, frustrating stalemate, two sides scrapping over slim differentials that’s mostly getting someone booked, or diving. And interest in it is drifting away at an alarming rate because of the way it has changed.

    There can be no sane comment about protecting the beautifully game, without admitting it no longer is. Another truth missing from the orgy of moralising hyperbole, what drove super league sign up wasn’t greed, but issues with debt.
    Much truth in that.
    The other is that the Champions League, whilst high technical quality is bloated, predictable and repetitive.
    The EL even more so. The 8 third place CL teams should not go into the EL.

    If they want to show more CL games, then stop scheduling them simultaneously.
    See. The EL is bloated. But it isn't predictable or repetitive.
    Its groups often throw up surprises. You can't usually predict the two qualifiers. There are different teams in the last sixteen every year, even if Sevilla usually win it.
    No. The 8 shouldn't go into it.
    It isn't predictable because the good clubs end up in the CL. So the EL ends up with the drop outs.

    100% the 8 shouldn't go into it. Its an absurd proposition that they do as some form of safety net. Though the EL without the 8 would probably be worth even less unfortunately - it would be like the FA Trophy relative to the CL as the FA Cup.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,706

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    How bizarre. Boris is getting mucho love from non-British football fans.


    ‘GOD BLESS BORIS’

    https://twitter.com/hojbjergx/status/1384627647611875329?s=21

    https://twitter.com/mufcnico/status/1384628210755899393?s=21

    ‘The Super League died the moment Boris said No’

    https://twitter.com/nketsiah__/status/1384632601118494721?s=21

    Der Boris #Johnson bekommt das #impfen hin verhindert die #SuperLeague

    Baut dem Mann ein Denkmal!

    #NoToSuperLeague

    ****
    Lots more like that

    Yes, I expect the government to bask in some kind of glory on this. It does, from the outside, look as if the legislative and tax threats made a difference for the six English clubs. Boris saved football will become a meme.
    Man Utd statement said that it had listened to fans, the UK government, and other key stakeholders

    So yes, Boris played a huge part in this
    And is in no way at all PR comms fluff
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    edited April 2021
    HYUFD said:

    48% of Northern Irish voters now want to scrap the Northern Ireland Protocol to 46% who want to keep it according to a new Lucidtalk poll.

    49% of Northern Irish voters want to stay in the UK, 43% want Irish unity

    https://twitter.com/SuzyJourno/status/1384634966168985602?s=20

    And after everything thats gone on, Irish Unity makes 43%. Says it all.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Yokes said:

    HYUFD said:

    48% of Northern Irish voters now want to scrap the Northern Ireland Protocol to 46% who want to keep it according to a new Lucidtalk poll.

    49% of Northern Irish voters want to stay in the UK, 43% want Irish unity

    https://twitter.com/SuzyJourno/status/1384634966168985602?s=20

    And everything thats gone on, Irish Unity makes 43%. Says it all.
    Were you talking about Belarus?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    How bizarre. Boris is getting mucho love from non-British football fans.


    ‘GOD BLESS BORIS’

    https://twitter.com/hojbjergx/status/1384627647611875329?s=21

    https://twitter.com/mufcnico/status/1384628210755899393?s=21

    ‘The Super League died the moment Boris said No’

    https://twitter.com/nketsiah__/status/1384632601118494721?s=21

    Der Boris #Johnson bekommt das #impfen hin verhindert die #SuperLeague

    Baut dem Mann ein Denkmal!

    #NoToSuperLeague

    ****
    Lots more like that

    Yes, I expect the government to bask in some kind of glory on this. It does, from the outside, look as if the legislative and tax threats made a difference for the six English clubs. Boris saved football will become a meme.
    Man Utd statement said that it had listened to fans, the UK government, and other key stakeholders

    So yes, Boris played a huge part in this
    And is in no way at all PR comms fluff
    And yet the well-informed Spanish sports press are saying UK government pressure was crucial for the EPL clubs withdrawing. ie Boris
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited April 2021
    The Irish Protocol that Johnson signed, said got Brexit “done” and Tories here said was a fantastic deal for the UK and the EU.

    Embarrassing.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,207
    I must admit, now the Super League is no more, I'm beginning to feel nostalgic for it. Am I the only one?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Leon said:

    I think this new league is in trouble, TBH


    🚨 AC Milan out of proposed European Super League @TheAthleticUK #ACMilan #europesuperleague #esl

    Big G and Tlg86 will pop up shortly to tell you it’s still alive

    Leon said:

    I think this new league is in trouble, TBH


    🚨 AC Milan out of proposed European Super League @TheAthleticUK #ACMilan #europesuperleague #esl

    Big G and Tlg86 will pop up shortly to tell you it’s still alive
    You are at times quite ridiculous

    Only when the six clubs confirmed their withdrawal was the matter officially over

    You claim knowing it all along but that is hyperbole as it was the likeliest outcome but far from certain
    I have called it since Sunday night.

    tlg86 said:

    Won’t happen, but I think relegating the six to the Championship for next season would be suitable punishment for all this angst.

    Take the damn victory and move on.
    100%. This is becoming beyond tedious. If it’s not attempting to revive an obviously dead proposal, it’s suggesting draconian punishments for thought crimes. As you say, it’s over.
    I disagree. They've brought the entire league into disrepute. There should be some form of punishment.
    They made a (admittedly crap) proposal and they pulled out. It was a bargain that went wonky. I mean, are we going to sanction every club that has done something some people don’t like? Why not relegate Newcastle for having retail slasher Mike Ashley as chairman for example? Or demote Forest to National League 24 for having a wayward shipping magnate at the helm?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,207
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I’m pretty certain no English club could now join the Satan League

    There would be riots outside the grounds. What are Liverpool thinking, dragging this out???

    However it is possible there could be a continental superleague. Spain, Italy, some smaller countries?

    Regional consolidation of leagues makes most sense for all involved. Just merge Spain and Portugal and you have a great league. Similarly add Dutch and Belgian clubs to the French league and it suddenly looks a whole lot better.
    For tiny countries, Belgium and the Netherlands produce outstanding numbers of excellent footballers. For example there were more Belgians than English players in the Leicester City starting line up in our last PL game.

    Their system is a much better one for youth development. Partly it is better youth coaching, but also it is a system that young players get match experience too.
    Sure I read of a proposed league of 10 Dutch and 8 Belgian teams.
    Here it is.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/bene-league-belgium-dutch-football-clubs-b924537.html?amp
    A Benelux league not quite so daft, but adding in France?
    The French league is only going to get more and more boring with PSG dominating. Action is needed, either equalise the finances so that Marseille, Lyons, Lille et al have chances or bring in Ajax, Feyenood, Anderlecht and PSV.
    Boring? 5 games to play.

    Lille 70 points
    PSG 69
    Monaco 68
    Lyon 67
    I like it - it's a truly international league. We could learn from that
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited April 2021

    They made a (admittedly crap) proposal and they pulled out. It was a bargain that went wonky. I mean, are we going to sanction every club that has done something some people don’t like? Why not relegate Newcastle for having retail slasher Mike Ashley as chairman for example? Or demote Forest to National League 24 for having a wayward shipping magnate at the helm?

    Newcastle United and Nottingham Forest haven't actively tried to undermine the very foundations of English football.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    How bizarre. Boris is getting mucho love from non-British football fans.


    ‘GOD BLESS BORIS’

    https://twitter.com/hojbjergx/status/1384627647611875329?s=21

    https://twitter.com/mufcnico/status/1384628210755899393?s=21

    ‘The Super League died the moment Boris said No’

    https://twitter.com/nketsiah__/status/1384632601118494721?s=21

    Der Boris #Johnson bekommt das #impfen hin verhindert die #SuperLeague

    Baut dem Mann ein Denkmal!

    #NoToSuperLeague

    ****
    Lots more like that

    Yes, I expect the government to bask in some kind of glory on this. It does, from the outside, look as if the legislative and tax threats made a difference for the six English clubs. Boris saved football will become a meme.
    Man Utd statement said that it had listened to fans, the UK government, and other key stakeholders

    So yes, Boris played a huge part in this
    And is in no way at all PR comms fluff
    And yet the well-informed Spanish sports press are saying UK government pressure was crucial for the EPL clubs withdrawing. ie Boris
    Apparently it was made clear at the summit that the government would use any means necessary to block the six clubs participation or failing that make it impossible for them to profit from it with windfall taxes and as an additional measure make them ineligible for new work permits.

    That was a pretty gigantic stick and probably did make a difference.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,100
    edited April 2021
    gealbhan said:

    dixiedean said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    12 of the biggest clubs in Europe choosing to compete together in a 22 game season played midweek around their domestic and international commitments, instead of entering the UEFA midweek competitions. Has there not been some degree of hyperbole against it?

    Only someone with little knowledge of football and its followers would make such a comment
    🙂


    Football is changing anyway, in far worse ways than this without anyone kicking up a fuss.

    The players are now cloned in factories, every single one exactly the same, no waist, broad shouldered. Their brains have been programmed by scientists. As result the game is no longer beautiful, it’s more than often sterile, frustrating stalemate, two sides scrapping over slim differentials that’s mostly getting someone booked, or diving. And interest in it is drifting away at an alarming rate because of the way it has changed.

    There can be no sane comment about protecting the beautifully game, without admitting it no longer is. Another truth missing from the orgy of moralising hyperbole, what drove super league sign up wasn’t greed, but issues with debt.
    Much truth in that.
    The other is that the Champions League, whilst high technical quality is bloated, predictable and repetitive.
    club belonging to fans and communities. 😆
    the toy of a wealthy owner which is administered on his behalf by faceless functionaries. 

    People own football clubs or racehorses for a number of reasons but IMO it should always be done with surplus wealth, wealth you can afford to lose. The two main reasons for ownership are that either these are competitive people who have had success elsewhere and now want to pit their wits against others in a different field, or they are wealthy people who want to have a bit of fun and show off.

    Ownership in the game no longer fits this business model.

    there is a way to apply a business strategy in a high risk sports venture and  you stand to get far more out of it if you put the work in and then are able to reap the rewards because it is so much more satisfying to have helped build something than just getting the credit card out and standing around waiting for people to admire you. 

    most fans are primarily concerned with the first team and its management, if you break down all the different components which make up the business you will see that there are an awful lot of them to which little attention is paid and so they are ripe for malaise.

    pep came out against franchise idea “if it’s not competitive it’s not proper sport” but for months he had been flagging up the debt issue at these big clubs.
    The owners came up with a solution to this. If those who reject it don’t recognise there is a problem to solutionize, this could be quite the pyrrhic victory for fans of these big clubs.

    Are you listening Big G 😆. Like I don’t know football.
    My track record in football

    1954 - 1960 - attended all Berwick Rangers home games

    1960 -1965 - season ticket with Hibs when starting work in Edinburgh

    1965 to date - Man Utd supporter, season ticket holder, and slept on the Stretford end for cup final tickets

    I stand by my 67 years actively supporting football and knowing its fans

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    OMG I hope it’s true, just for the lolz. They have 5 teams left


    https://twitter.com/absolutechelsea/status/1384640038089236481?s=21


    The survivors of the Super League will announce that the competition will continue without the English clubs.

    [via @ellarguero]
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    edited April 2021
    Yokes said:

    HYUFD said:

    48% of Northern Irish voters now want to scrap the Northern Ireland Protocol to 46% who want to keep it according to a new Lucidtalk poll.

    49% of Northern Irish voters want to stay in the UK, 43% want Irish unity

    https://twitter.com/SuzyJourno/status/1384634966168985602?s=20

    And after everything thats gone on, Irish Unity makes 43%. Says it all.
    Youve got more chance of President Big Hat in Belarus allowing free elections than you do of Irish Unity in the next 30 years.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Leon said:

    OMG I hope it’s true, just for the lolz. They have 5 teams left


    https://twitter.com/absolutechelsea/status/1384640038089236481?s=21


    The survivors of the Super League will announce that the competition will continue without the English clubs.

    [via @ellarguero]

    Without the English, French or Germans? 🤔
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Making it up as we go along is what we do here. Are you new?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    rcs1000 said:

    I must admit, now the Super League is no more, I'm beginning to feel nostalgic for it. Am I the only one?

    See my comment below. It still lives. With 5 teams. Or maybe 4 if Barca leave (as threatened)

    4 teams. Imagine the exciting fixture list
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Leon said:

    OMG I hope it’s true, just for the lolz. They have 5 teams left


    https://twitter.com/absolutechelsea/status/1384640038089236481?s=21


    The survivors of the Super League will announce that the competition will continue without the English clubs.

    [via @ellarguero]

    Lol, Barca are putting it to a fan vote and we know that means it's dead for them too. That leaves the two Madrid clubs, Inter and Juve. Potentially a champion's league group.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    The Irish Protocol that Johnson signed, said got Brexit “done” and Tories here said was a fantastic deal for the UK and the EU.

    Embarrassing.

    BORIS SAVED FOOTBALL. FOR ALL OF HUMANKIND

    He’s basically Jesus now. Best accept it
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    edited April 2021
    There is the real possibility Boris is the one of the political equivalents of Mazarin's Lucky Generals.
  • Leon said:

    I think this new league is in trouble, TBH


    🚨 AC Milan out of proposed European Super League @TheAthleticUK #ACMilan #europesuperleague #esl

    Big G and Tlg86 will pop up shortly to tell you it’s still alive

    Leon said:

    I think this new league is in trouble, TBH


    🚨 AC Milan out of proposed European Super League @TheAthleticUK #ACMilan #europesuperleague #esl

    Big G and Tlg86 will pop up shortly to tell you it’s still alive
    You are at times quite ridiculous

    Only when the six clubs confirmed their withdrawal was the matter officially over

    You claim knowing it all along but that is hyperbole as it was the likeliest outcome but far from certain
    I have called it since Sunday night.

    tlg86 said:

    Won’t happen, but I think relegating the six to the Championship for next season would be suitable punishment for all this angst.

    Take the damn victory and move on.
    100%. This is becoming beyond tedious. If it’s not attempting to revive an obviously dead proposal, it’s suggesting draconian punishments for thought crimes. As you say, it’s over.
    I disagree. They've brought the entire league into disrepute. There should be some form of punishment.
    They made a (admittedly crap) proposal and they pulled out. It was a bargain that went wonky. I mean, are we going to sanction every club that has done something some people don’t like? Why not relegate Newcastle for having retail slasher Mike Ashley as chairman for example? Or demote Forest to National League 24 for having a wayward shipping magnate at the helm?
    And it was fairly obvious from the off it would be defeated

    It was easy to call but until tonight's declaration by the six clubs it was not off
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,587
    As we saw earlier, the Forsa poll on this page is pretty astonishing.

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Leon said:

    The Irish Protocol that Johnson signed, said got Brexit “done” and Tories here said was a fantastic deal for the UK and the EU.

    Embarrassing.

    BORIS SAVED FOOTBALL. FOR ALL OF HUMANKIND

    He’s basically Jesus now. Best accept it
    He rose on Easter last year and came back to defeat Covid and the billionaire football owners.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited April 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    OMG I hope it’s true, just for the lolz. They have 5 teams left


    https://twitter.com/absolutechelsea/status/1384640038089236481?s=21


    The survivors of the Super League will announce that the competition will continue without the English clubs.

    [via @ellarguero]

    Lol, Barca are putting it to a fan vote and we know that means it's dead for them too. That leaves the two Madrid clubs, Inter and Juve. Potentially a champion's league group.
    Gotta wonder how J P Morgan feel, paying £5bn for a league of 4 teams with a potential 9 TV viewers
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    The Times saying Athletico and Barca set to leave as well. Leaving just Madrid, Juve and Inter. Perez has really fucked it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,692
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    How bizarre. Boris is getting mucho love from non-British football fans.


    ‘GOD BLESS BORIS’

    https://twitter.com/hojbjergx/status/1384627647611875329?s=21

    https://twitter.com/mufcnico/status/1384628210755899393?s=21

    ‘The Super League died the moment Boris said No’

    https://twitter.com/nketsiah__/status/1384632601118494721?s=21

    Der Boris #Johnson bekommt das #impfen hin verhindert die #SuperLeague

    Baut dem Mann ein Denkmal!

    #NoToSuperLeague

    ****
    Lots more like that

    Yes, I expect the government to bask in some kind of glory on this. It does, from the outside, look as if the legislative and tax threats made a difference for the six English clubs. Boris saved football will become a meme.
    Man Utd statement said that it had listened to fans, the UK government, and other key stakeholders

    So yes, Boris played a huge part in this
    And is in no way at all PR comms fluff
    And yet the well-informed Spanish sports press are saying UK government pressure was crucial for the EPL clubs withdrawing. ie Boris
    La Repubblica is giving the credit to Johnson and the article finishes by saying "yet again people have underestimated him".

    https://www.repubblica.it/sport/calcio/esteri/2021/04/20/news/crepe_club_inglesi-297257446/
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    They made a (admittedly crap) proposal and they pulled out. It was a bargain that went wonky. I mean, are we going to sanction every club that has done something some people don’t like? Why not relegate Newcastle for having retail slasher Mike Ashley as chairman for example? Or demote Forest to National League 24 for having a wayward shipping magnate at the helm?

    Newcastle United and Nottingham Forest haven't actively tried to undermine the very foundations of English football.
    You are probably too young to remember the extreme controversy when the premier league was formed. Forest at least were a founder member. The difference is that the PL actually happened!

    I’m not defending the Super League breakaway group, but extreme sanctions are ludicrous for a proposal that hasn’t been implemented, and which they have disowned.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,104
    edited April 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    As we saw earlier, the Forsa poll on this page is pretty astonishing.

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    No surprise and only what the CDU deserve after picking the hapless Laschet over Soder.

    On that poll the Greens would be largest party and the FDP up to 12% but most likely it would be a Green-SPD-Linke government on 48% combined to just 33% combined for the CDU/CSU and FDP with the AfD on 11%
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Because the government really are going to regulate football anew, and you can be sure they will put in some law that prevents this ever happening again. Good, easy politics.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    OMG I hope it’s true, just for the lolz. They have 5 teams left


    https://twitter.com/absolutechelsea/status/1384640038089236481?s=21


    The survivors of the Super League will announce that the competition will continue without the English clubs.

    [via @ellarguero]

    Lol, Barca are putting it to a fan vote and we know that means it's dead for them too. That leaves the two Madrid clubs, Inter and Juve. Potentially a champion's league group.
    Gotta wonder how J P Morgan feel, paying £5bn for a league of 4 teams with a potential 9 TV viewers
    They'll have to hope to draft random teams if they try and plough on. I don't see it though. I'm sure JP Morgan will find some way to make use of the £5bn.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Leon said:

    I think this new league is in trouble, TBH


    🚨 AC Milan out of proposed European Super League @TheAthleticUK #ACMilan #europesuperleague #esl

    Big G and Tlg86 will pop up shortly to tell you it’s still alive

    Leon said:

    I think this new league is in trouble, TBH


    🚨 AC Milan out of proposed European Super League @TheAthleticUK #ACMilan #europesuperleague #esl

    Big G and Tlg86 will pop up shortly to tell you it’s still alive
    You are at times quite ridiculous

    Only when the six clubs confirmed their withdrawal was the matter officially over

    You claim knowing it all along but that is hyperbole as it was the likeliest outcome but far from certain
    I have called it since Sunday night.

    tlg86 said:

    Won’t happen, but I think relegating the six to the Championship for next season would be suitable punishment for all this angst.

    Take the damn victory and move on.
    100%. This is becoming beyond tedious. If it’s not attempting to revive an obviously dead proposal, it’s suggesting draconian punishments for thought crimes. As you say, it’s over.
    I disagree. They've brought the entire league into disrepute. There should be some form of punishment.
    They made a (admittedly crap) proposal and they pulled out. It was a bargain that went wonky. I mean, are we going to sanction every club that has done something some people don’t like? Why not relegate Newcastle for having retail slasher Mike Ashley as chairman for example? Or demote Forest to National League 24 for having a wayward shipping magnate at the helm?
    And it was fairly obvious from the off it would be defeated

    It was easy to call but until tonight's declaration by the six clubs it was not off
    Aftertiming? Did you say that on Sunday? (Genuine question, you might have done but if you did I don’t remember it)
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    They made a (admittedly crap) proposal and they pulled out. It was a bargain that went wonky. I mean, are we going to sanction every club that has done something some people don’t like? Why not relegate Newcastle for having retail slasher Mike Ashley as chairman for example? Or demote Forest to National League 24 for having a wayward shipping magnate at the helm?

    Newcastle United and Nottingham Forest haven't actively tried to undermine the very foundations of English football.
    You are probably too young to remember the extreme controversy when the premier league was formed. Forest at least were a founder member. The difference is that the PL actually happened!

    I’m not defending the Super League breakaway group, but extreme sanctions are ludicrous for a proposal that hasn’t been implemented, and which they have disowned.
    I'm not suggesting extreme sanctions. Just some sanctions.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    As we saw earlier, the Forsa poll on this page is pretty astonishing.

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    No surprise and only what the CDU deserve after picking the hapless Laschet over Soder.

    On that poll the Greens would be largest party and the FDP up to 12% but most likely it would be a Green-SPD-Linke government on 48% combined to just 33% combined for the CDU and FDP with the AfD on 11%
    No one can form a government with the stasi, surely?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    MaxPB said:

    The Times saying Athletico and Barca set to leave as well. Leaving just Madrid, Juve and Inter. Perez has really fucked it.

    I think Inter might go too. That leaves just two.

    ‘Superleague’
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    edited April 2021

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
  • Leon said:

    I think this new league is in trouble, TBH


    🚨 AC Milan out of proposed European Super League @TheAthleticUK #ACMilan #europesuperleague #esl

    Big G and Tlg86 will pop up shortly to tell you it’s still alive

    Leon said:

    I think this new league is in trouble, TBH


    🚨 AC Milan out of proposed European Super League @TheAthleticUK #ACMilan #europesuperleague #esl

    Big G and Tlg86 will pop up shortly to tell you it’s still alive
    You are at times quite ridiculous

    Only when the six clubs confirmed their withdrawal was the matter officially over

    You claim knowing it all along but that is hyperbole as it was the likeliest outcome but far from certain
    I have called it since Sunday night.

    tlg86 said:

    Won’t happen, but I think relegating the six to the Championship for next season would be suitable punishment for all this angst.

    Take the damn victory and move on.
    100%. This is becoming beyond tedious. If it’s not attempting to revive an obviously dead proposal, it’s suggesting draconian punishments for thought crimes. As you say, it’s over.
    I disagree. They've brought the entire league into disrepute. There should be some form of punishment.
    They made a (admittedly crap) proposal and they pulled out. It was a bargain that went wonky. I mean, are we going to sanction every club that has done something some people don’t like? Why not relegate Newcastle for having retail slasher Mike Ashley as chairman for example? Or demote Forest to National League 24 for having a wayward shipping magnate at the helm?
    And it was fairly obvious from the off it would be defeated

    It was easy to call but until tonight's declaration by the six clubs it was not off
    Aftertiming? Did you say that on Sunday? (Genuine question, you might have done but if you did I don’t remember it)
    I have cast doubt on it from the first announcement and expected it to fall but the timing and how was uncertain

    However, from the moment Boris took them on and the fans outrage it looked sooner rather than later as so it has proved
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    gealbhan said:

    dixiedean said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    12 of the biggest clubs in Europe choosing to compete together in a 22 game season played midweek around their domestic and international commitments, instead of entering the UEFA midweek competitions. Has there not been some degree of hyperbole against it?

    Only someone with little knowledge of football and its followers would make such a comment
    🙂


    Football is changing anyway, in far worse ways than this without anyone kicking up a fuss.

    The players are now cloned in factories, every single one exactly the same, no waist, broad shouldered. Their brains have been programmed by scientists. As result the game is no longer beautiful, it’s more than often sterile, frustrating stalemate, two sides scrapping over slim differentials that’s mostly getting someone booked, or diving. And interest in it is drifting away at an alarming rate because of the way it has changed.

    There can be no sane comment about protecting the beautifully game, without admitting it no longer is. Another truth missing from the orgy of moralising hyperbole, what drove super league sign up wasn’t greed, but issues with debt.
    Much truth in that.
    The other is that the Champions League, whilst high technical quality is bloated, predictable and repetitive.
    club belonging to fans and communities. 😆
    the toy of a wealthy owner which is administered on his behalf by faceless functionaries. 

    People own football clubs or racehorses for a number of reasons but IMO it should always be done with surplus wealth, wealth you can afford to lose. The two main reasons for ownership are that either these are competitive people who have had success elsewhere and now want to pit their wits against others in a different field, or they are wealthy people who want to have a bit of fun and show off.

    Ownership in the game no longer fits this business model.

    there is a way to apply a business strategy in a high risk sports venture and  you stand to get far more out of it if you put the work in and then are able to reap the rewards because it is so much more satisfying to have helped build something than just getting the credit card out and standing around waiting for people to admire you. 

    most fans are primarily concerned with the first team and its management, if you break down all the different components which make up the business you will see that there are an awful lot of them to which little attention is paid and so they are ripe for malaise.

    pep came out against franchise idea “if it’s not competitive it’s not proper sport” but for months he had been flagging up the debt issue at these big clubs.
    The owners came up with a solution to this. If those who reject it don’t recognise there is a problem to solutionize, this could be quite the pyrrhic victory for fans of these big clubs.

    Are you listening Big G 😆. Like I don’t know football.
    My track record in football

    1954 - 1960 - attended all Berwick Rangers home games

    1960 -1965 - season ticket with Hibs when starting work in Edinburgh

    1965 to date - Man Utd supporter, season ticket holder, and slept on the Stretford end for cup final tickets

    I stand by my 67 years actively supporting football and knowing its fans

    You have rejected the solution to the debt problem at your club. Do you have another solution?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,939
    Leon said:

    The Irish Protocol that Johnson signed, said got Brexit “done” and Tories here said was a fantastic deal for the UK and the EU.

    Embarrassing.

    BORIS SAVED FOOTBALL. FOR ALL OF HUMANKIND

    He’s basically Jesus now. Best accept it
    Well, he had to do something amazing to outdo Mark Drakeford.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Times saying Athletico and Barca set to leave as well. Leaving just Madrid, Juve and Inter. Perez has really fucked it.

    I think Inter might go too. That leaves just two.

    ‘Superleague’
    Let Real Madrid play with themselves.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,692
    +43,098 cases in France today. Their lockdown will probably have to be extended.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
  • gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    dixiedean said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    12 of the biggest clubs in Europe choosing to compete together in a 22 game season played midweek around their domestic and international commitments, instead of entering the UEFA midweek competitions. Has there not been some degree of hyperbole against it?

    Only someone with little knowledge of football and its followers would make such a comment
    🙂


    Football is changing anyway, in far worse ways than this without anyone kicking up a fuss.

    The players are now cloned in factories, every single one exactly the same, no waist, broad shouldered. Their brains have been programmed by scientists. As result the game is no longer beautiful, it’s more than often sterile, frustrating stalemate, two sides scrapping over slim differentials that’s mostly getting someone booked, or diving. And interest in it is drifting away at an alarming rate because of the way it has changed.

    There can be no sane comment about protecting the beautifully game, without admitting it no longer is. Another truth missing from the orgy of moralising hyperbole, what drove super league sign up wasn’t greed, but issues with debt.
    Much truth in that.
    The other is that the Champions League, whilst high technical quality is bloated, predictable and repetitive.
    club belonging to fans and communities. 😆
    the toy of a wealthy owner which is administered on his behalf by faceless functionaries. 

    People own football clubs or racehorses for a number of reasons but IMO it should always be done with surplus wealth, wealth you can afford to lose. The two main reasons for ownership are that either these are competitive people who have had success elsewhere and now want to pit their wits against others in a different field, or they are wealthy people who want to have a bit of fun and show off.

    Ownership in the game no longer fits this business model.

    there is a way to apply a business strategy in a high risk sports venture and  you stand to get far more out of it if you put the work in and then are able to reap the rewards because it is so much more satisfying to have helped build something than just getting the credit card out and standing around waiting for people to admire you. 

    most fans are primarily concerned with the first team and its management, if you break down all the different components which make up the business you will see that there are an awful lot of them to which little attention is paid and so they are ripe for malaise.

    pep came out against franchise idea “if it’s not competitive it’s not proper sport” but for months he had been flagging up the debt issue at these big clubs.
    The owners came up with a solution to this. If those who reject it don’t recognise there is a problem to solutionize, this could be quite the pyrrhic victory for fans of these big clubs.

    Are you listening Big G 😆. Like I don’t know football.
    My track record in football

    1954 - 1960 - attended all Berwick Rangers home games

    1960 -1965 - season ticket with Hibs when starting work in Edinburgh

    1965 to date - Man Utd supporter, season ticket holder, and slept on the Stretford end for cup final tickets

    I stand by my 67 years actively supporting football and knowing its fans

    You have rejected the solution to the debt problem at your club. Do you have another solution?
    It was not a solution - it was greed and elitism that any fan would reject

    And it would have destroyed the Premier League and football across the UK including in Scotland and Wales

    And I really do not care about the Glaziers debt when the club is worth a billion or more
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,939

    They made a (admittedly crap) proposal and they pulled out. It was a bargain that went wonky. I mean, are we going to sanction every club that has done something some people don’t like? Why not relegate Newcastle for having retail slasher Mike Ashley as chairman for example? Or demote Forest to National League 24 for having a wayward shipping magnate at the helm?

    Newcastle United and Nottingham Forest haven't actively tried to undermine the very foundations of English football.
    You are probably too young to remember the extreme controversy when the premier league was formed. Forest at least were a founder member. The difference is that the PL actually happened!

    I’m not defending the Super League breakaway group, but extreme sanctions are ludicrous for a proposal that hasn’t been implemented, and which they have disowned.
    I'm not suggesting extreme sanctions. Just some sanctions.
    Either a big enough points deduction to ensure none of them can win the league or, better still, a three year ban from European competition.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited April 2021
    Good speech by Kamala Harris now on the verdict.

    Definitely the Democrats nominee in 2024 - nailed on.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,207
    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    You may not even think about doing anything else or you will be punished.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    As we saw earlier, the Forsa poll on this page is pretty astonishing.

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    No surprise and only what the CDU deserve after picking the hapless Laschet over Soder.

    On that poll the Greens would be largest party and the FDP up to 12% but most likely it would be a Green-SPD-Linke government on 48% combined to just 33% combined for the CDU and FDP with the AfD on 11%
    No one can form a government with the stasi, surely?
    The Stasi generation has moved on - Die Linke is now fairly conventional, somewhat more centrist than many left-wing parties, with a good record in responsible state-level government.

    Note though that there was a relatively boring INSA poll on the same day with a CDU lead:

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    I'd wait a couple of weeks for it to settle down.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    They made a (admittedly crap) proposal and they pulled out. It was a bargain that went wonky. I mean, are we going to sanction every club that has done something some people don’t like? Why not relegate Newcastle for having retail slasher Mike Ashley as chairman for example? Or demote Forest to National League 24 for having a wayward shipping magnate at the helm?

    Newcastle United and Nottingham Forest haven't actively tried to undermine the very foundations of English football.
    You are probably too young to remember the extreme controversy when the premier league was formed. Forest at least were a founder member. The difference is that the PL actually happened!

    I’m not defending the Super League breakaway group, but extreme sanctions are ludicrous for a proposal that hasn’t been implemented, and which they have disowned.
    I'm not suggesting extreme sanctions. Just some sanctions.
    Either a big enough points deduction to ensure none of them can win the league or, better still, a three year ban from European competition.
    Except that the President of UEFA has already welcomed back the clubs - and quite right too, when you want people to come back to you then providing an off ramp to let them do so makes sense.

    Had a ball been kicked in the Super League it may be different, but there wasn't.

    Apply the rules and move on.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    They made a (admittedly crap) proposal and they pulled out. It was a bargain that went wonky. I mean, are we going to sanction every club that has done something some people don’t like? Why not relegate Newcastle for having retail slasher Mike Ashley as chairman for example? Or demote Forest to National League 24 for having a wayward shipping magnate at the helm?

    Newcastle United and Nottingham Forest haven't actively tried to undermine the very foundations of English football.
    You are probably too young to remember the extreme controversy when the premier league was formed. Forest at least were a founder member. The difference is that the PL actually happened!

    I’m not defending the Super League breakaway group, but extreme sanctions are ludicrous for a proposal that hasn’t been implemented, and which they have disowned.
    I'm not suggesting extreme sanctions. Just some sanctions.
    Either a big enough points deduction to ensure none of them can win the league or, better still, a three year ban from European competition.
    Except that the President of UEFA has already welcomed back the clubs - and quite right too, when you want people to come back to you then providing an off ramp to let them do so makes sense.

    Had a ball been kicked in the Super League it may be different, but there wasn't.

    Apply the rules and move on.
    You would say that because you're a Liverpool fan.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Good speech by Kamala Harris now on the verdict.

    Definitely the Democrats nominee in 2024 - nailed on.

    Impressed she knows about the European Super League !!
    If there's one thing that could knock Chauvin's conviction off the news, the only thing that could be is football. 😂

    I wonder across Europe which more people will talk about tomorrow. Probably the footy.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,207

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    dixiedean said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    12 of the biggest clubs in Europe choosing to compete together in a 22 game season played midweek around their domestic and international commitments, instead of entering the UEFA midweek competitions. Has there not been some degree of hyperbole against it?

    Only someone with little knowledge of football and its followers would make such a comment
    🙂


    Football is changing anyway, in far worse ways than this without anyone kicking up a fuss.

    The players are now cloned in factories, every single one exactly the same, no waist, broad shouldered. Their brains have been programmed by scientists. As result the game is no longer beautiful, it’s more than often sterile, frustrating stalemate, two sides scrapping over slim differentials that’s mostly getting someone booked, or diving. And interest in it is drifting away at an alarming rate because of the way it has changed.

    There can be no sane comment about protecting the beautifully game, without admitting it no longer is. Another truth missing from the orgy of moralising hyperbole, what drove super league sign up wasn’t greed, but issues with debt.
    Much truth in that.
    The other is that the Champions League, whilst high technical quality is bloated, predictable and repetitive.
    club belonging to fans and communities. 😆
    the toy of a wealthy owner which is administered on his behalf by faceless functionaries. 

    People own football clubs or racehorses for a number of reasons but IMO it should always be done with surplus wealth, wealth you can afford to lose. The two main reasons for ownership are that either these are competitive people who have had success elsewhere and now want to pit their wits against others in a different field, or they are wealthy people who want to have a bit of fun and show off.

    Ownership in the game no longer fits this business model.

    there is a way to apply a business strategy in a high risk sports venture and  you stand to get far more out of it if you put the work in and then are able to reap the rewards because it is so much more satisfying to have helped build something than just getting the credit card out and standing around waiting for people to admire you. 

    most fans are primarily concerned with the first team and its management, if you break down all the different components which make up the business you will see that there are an awful lot of them to which little attention is paid and so they are ripe for malaise.

    pep came out against franchise idea “if it’s not competitive it’s not proper sport” but for months he had been flagging up the debt issue at these big clubs.
    The owners came up with a solution to this. If those who reject it don’t recognise there is a problem to solutionize, this could be quite the pyrrhic victory for fans of these big clubs.

    Are you listening Big G 😆. Like I don’t know football.
    My track record in football

    1954 - 1960 - attended all Berwick Rangers home games

    1960 -1965 - season ticket with Hibs when starting work in Edinburgh

    1965 to date - Man Utd supporter, season ticket holder, and slept on the Stretford end for cup final tickets

    I stand by my 67 years actively supporting football and knowing its fans

    You have rejected the solution to the debt problem at your club. Do you have another solution?
    It was not a solution - it was greed and elitism that any fan would reject

    And it would have destroyed the Premier League and football across the UK including in Scotland and Wales

    And I really do not care about the Glaziers debt when the club is worth a billion or more
    Hyperbole central.

    It was a bad idea, that was fortunately stopped.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765

    Good speech by Kamala Harris now on the verdict.

    Definitely the Democrats nominee in 2024 - nailed on.

    "A 10 minute murder" says Biden.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    They made a (admittedly crap) proposal and they pulled out. It was a bargain that went wonky. I mean, are we going to sanction every club that has done something some people don’t like? Why not relegate Newcastle for having retail slasher Mike Ashley as chairman for example? Or demote Forest to National League 24 for having a wayward shipping magnate at the helm?

    Newcastle United and Nottingham Forest haven't actively tried to undermine the very foundations of English football.
    You are probably too young to remember the extreme controversy when the premier league was formed. Forest at least were a founder member. The difference is that the PL actually happened!

    I’m not defending the Super League breakaway group, but extreme sanctions are ludicrous for a proposal that hasn’t been implemented, and which they have disowned.
    I'm not suggesting extreme sanctions. Just some sanctions.
    Either a big enough points deduction to ensure none of them can win the league or, better still, a three year ban from European competition.
    Except that the President of UEFA has already welcomed back the clubs - and quite right too, when you want people to come back to you then providing an off ramp to let them do so makes sense.

    Had a ball been kicked in the Super League it may be different, but there wasn't.

    Apply the rules and move on.
    You would say that because you're a Liverpool fan.
    I'm a football fan first and foremost. I opposed the Super League unequivocally..

    I didn't want a schism in football.
  • Good speech by Kamala Harris now on the verdict.

    Definitely the Democrats nominee in 2024 - nailed on.

    Impressed she knows about the European Super League !!
    If there's one thing that could knock Chauvin's conviction off the news, the only thing that could be is football. 😂

    I wonder across Europe which more people will talk about tomorrow. Probably the footy.
    Except Sky
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,207
    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    They made a (admittedly crap) proposal and they pulled out. It was a bargain that went wonky. I mean, are we going to sanction every club that has done something some people don’t like? Why not relegate Newcastle for having retail slasher Mike Ashley as chairman for example? Or demote Forest to National League 24 for having a wayward shipping magnate at the helm?

    Newcastle United and Nottingham Forest haven't actively tried to undermine the very foundations of English football.
    You are probably too young to remember the extreme controversy when the premier league was formed. Forest at least were a founder member. The difference is that the PL actually happened!

    I’m not defending the Super League breakaway group, but extreme sanctions are ludicrous for a proposal that hasn’t been implemented, and which they have disowned.
    I'm not suggesting extreme sanctions. Just some sanctions.
    Either a big enough points deduction to ensure none of them can win the league or, better still, a three year ban from European competition.
    Except that the President of UEFA has already welcomed back the clubs - and quite right too, when you want people to come back to you then providing an off ramp to let them do so makes sense.

    Had a ball been kicked in the Super League it may be different, but there wasn't.

    Apply the rules and move on.
    You would say that because you're a Liverpool fan.
    I'm a football fan first and foremost. I opposed the Super League unequivocally..

    I didn't want a schism in football.
    No, you don't want Liverpool to be punished because it will mean less revenue.
  • They made a (admittedly crap) proposal and they pulled out. It was a bargain that went wonky. I mean, are we going to sanction every club that has done something some people don’t like? Why not relegate Newcastle for having retail slasher Mike Ashley as chairman for example? Or demote Forest to National League 24 for having a wayward shipping magnate at the helm?

    Newcastle United and Nottingham Forest haven't actively tried to undermine the very foundations of English football.
    You are probably too young to remember the extreme controversy when the premier league was formed. Forest at least were a founder member. The difference is that the PL actually happened!

    I’m not defending the Super League breakaway group, but extreme sanctions are ludicrous for a proposal that hasn’t been implemented, and which they have disowned.
    I'm not suggesting extreme sanctions. Just some sanctions.
    Either a big enough points deduction to ensure none of them can win the league or, better still, a three year ban from European competition.
    Except that the President of UEFA has already welcomed back the clubs - and quite right too, when you want people to come back to you then providing an off ramp to let them do so makes sense.

    Had a ball been kicked in the Super League it may be different, but there wasn't.

    Apply the rules and move on.
    You would say that because you're a Liverpool fan.
    I'm a football fan first and foremost. I opposed the Super League unequivocally..

    I didn't want a schism in football.
    Nor did I
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,207

    Good speech by Kamala Harris now on the verdict.

    Definitely the Democrats nominee in 2024 - nailed on.

    "A 10 minute murder" says Biden.
    I had no idea Biden was a football fan.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    They made a (admittedly crap) proposal and they pulled out. It was a bargain that went wonky. I mean, are we going to sanction every club that has done something some people don’t like? Why not relegate Newcastle for having retail slasher Mike Ashley as chairman for example? Or demote Forest to National League 24 for having a wayward shipping magnate at the helm?

    Newcastle United and Nottingham Forest haven't actively tried to undermine the very foundations of English football.
    You are probably too young to remember the extreme controversy when the premier league was formed. Forest at least were a founder member. The difference is that the PL actually happened!

    I’m not defending the Super League breakaway group, but extreme sanctions are ludicrous for a proposal that hasn’t been implemented, and which they have disowned.
    I'm not suggesting extreme sanctions. Just some sanctions.
    Either a big enough points deduction to ensure none of them can win the league or, better still, a three year ban from European competition.
    Except that the President of UEFA has already welcomed back the clubs - and quite right too, when you want people to come back to you then providing an off ramp to let them do so makes sense.

    Had a ball been kicked in the Super League it may be different, but there wasn't.

    Apply the rules and move on.
    You would say that because you're a Liverpool fan.
    I'm a football fan first and foremost. I opposed the Super League unequivocally..

    I didn't want a schism in football.
    No, you don't want Liverpool to be punished because it will mean less revenue.
    If Liverpool broke a rule that deserves a point deduction that rule should be applied.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Rule L9 in the Premier League states clubs CANNOT enter into any agreement without any proper notification to the PL.

    So they contravened a rule before falling flat on their faces and deserve a suitable punishment. Their lawyers will of course argue that by just signing the contract and not playing in the super league no rules were broken.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    As we saw earlier, the Forsa poll on this page is pretty astonishing.

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    No surprise and only what the CDU deserve after picking the hapless Laschet over Soder.

    On that poll the Greens would be largest party and the FDP up to 12% but most likely it would be a Green-SPD-Linke government on 48% combined to just 33% combined for the CDU and FDP with the AfD on 11%
    No one can form a government with the stasi, surely?
    HYUFD's only concept of coalition building is all on the Left or all on the Right.
    However that is the current governing coalition in Bremen, Berlin and Thuringia.
    I find it unlikely myself. Mostly cos the SPD desperately needs not to be a junior partner in coalition again.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    rcs1000 said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
    B.15 In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with utmost good faith.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,207

    rcs1000 said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
    B.15 In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with utmost good faith.
    So proposing working with another league is not acting in good faith?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    rcs1000 said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
    B.15 In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with utmost good faith.
    Which has ultimately been done, the scheme never came to reality.

    But what point penalty is specifically associated with that rule? Points penalties aren't like candy that you can just hand out at will, they're defined.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
    B.15 In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with utmost good faith.
    So proposing working with another league is not acting in good faith?
    Of course it is. They've clearly devalued the Premier League TV rights, even if the league doesn't go ahead, and they've actively conspired to devalue the League as a sporting institution.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
    B.15 In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with utmost good faith.
    So proposing working with another league is not acting in good faith?
    Proposing and dropping the proposal within 48 hours.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
    B.15 In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with utmost good faith.
    So proposing working with another league is not acting in good faith?
    Starting to sound like they broke a few rules! Poor big 6 eh!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    Look at Wigan last year for an unjust points deduction and relegation. Letter of the law.
    A small points deduction for next season, coupled with a massive suspended points deduction/relegation might prevent a repeat.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    "No safe harbour for hate" - Biden
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    rcs1000 said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
    B.15 In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with utmost good faith.
    Which has ultimately been done, the scheme never came to reality.

    But what point penalty is specifically associated with that rule? Points penalties aren't like candy that you can just hand out at will, they're defined.
    The rules aren't clear to me, but it appears at first glance that the board have discretion to give out penalties.

    Regardless I haven't proposed a points deduction, I merely have a personal opinion that there should be some sanction.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
    B.15 In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with utmost good faith.
    So proposing working with another league is not acting in good faith?
    Proposing and dropping the proposal within 48 hours.
    You continue to demonstrate "big 6" arrogance.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Brom said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
    B.15 In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with utmost good faith.
    So proposing working with another league is not acting in good faith?
    Starting to sound like they broke a few rules! Poor big 6 eh!
    If they have then enforce the rules and the sanctions associated with those rules.

    But if there's no sanctions associated with those rules, or they've not been broken, then that's that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    rcs1000 said:

    Good speech by Kamala Harris now on the verdict.

    Definitely the Democrats nominee in 2024 - nailed on.

    "A 10 minute murder" says Biden.
    I had no idea Biden was a football fan.
    I laughed but I shouldn't have...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,207

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
    B.15 In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with utmost good faith.
    So proposing working with another league is not acting in good faith?
    Of course it is. They've clearly devalued the Premier League TV rights, even if the league doesn't go ahead, and they've actively conspired to devalue the League as a sporting institution.
    Hmmm. There's a lot of wishful thinking there.

    Personally, I think they've managed to massively disadvantage clubs relative to the league, because the threat of leaving has just been proved to be an empty one.

    The league is strengthened, and the clubs hands' weakened.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    As we saw earlier, the Forsa poll on this page is pretty astonishing.

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    No surprise and only what the CDU deserve after picking the hapless Laschet over Soder.

    On that poll the Greens would be largest party and the FDP up to 12% but most likely it would be a Green-SPD-Linke government on 48% combined to just 33% combined for the CDU and FDP with the AfD on 11%
    No one can form a government with the stasi, surely?
    The Stasi generation has moved on - Die Linke is now fairly conventional, somewhat more centrist than many left-wing parties, with a good record in responsible state-level government.

    Note though that there was a relatively boring INSA poll on the same day with a CDU lead:

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    I'd wait a couple of weeks for it to settle down.
    ‘The Stasi generation has moved on - somewhat more centrist than many left-wing parties,”

    Then why don’t they leave Stasi and join the SPD or Greens?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    "Europe's elite suffer sport's most astounding humiliation - and wounds will take a long time to heal
    The European Super League plan blew up in an extraordinary day, leaving the sport more divided than ever... but still intact"

    Telegraph live blog
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
    B.15 In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with utmost good faith.
    So proposing working with another league is not acting in good faith?
    Proposing and dropping the proposal within 48 hours.
    You continue to demonstrate "big 6" arrogance.
    Its not arrogance to be glad the proposal was dropped within 48 hours. Most fans around the country are regardless of which club they support.

    You seem to have an extreme level of jealousy and vendetta that goes above and beyond seeing the proposal axed and football as we know it preserved.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
    B.15 In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with utmost good faith.
    So proposing working with another league is not acting in good faith?
    Proposing and dropping the proposal within 48 hours.
    You continue to demonstrate "big 6" arrogance.
    Its not arrogance to be glad the proposal was dropped within 48 hours. Most fans around the country are regardless of which club they support.

    You seem to have an extreme level of jealousy and vendetta that goes above and beyond seeing the proposal axed and football as we know it preserved.
    No, I just believe in fair play. Conspiring to ruin English football, dropping it because of a backlash, and then carrying on like nothing has happened isn't fair play. It's b*llocks.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    Brom said:

    Rule L9 in the Premier League states clubs CANNOT enter into any agreement without any proper notification to the PL.

    So they contravened a rule before falling flat on their faces and deserve a suitable punishment. Their lawyers will of course argue that by just signing the contract and not playing in the super league no rules were broken.

    Mmm.
    Signing a contract seems to be the very definition of "entering into an agreement " to my non-learned eye.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Inter Milan have gone as well


    Breaking: Inter Milan are preparing to announce they no longer want any part of the European Super League.

    [via @tariqpanja]

    If Barca go that leaves Real. Atletico and Juve. Three teams. That’s going to be awkward on match day. An odd number. Maybe they could have all three teams on the pitch, three goals, and three halves lasting 17 seconds each

    That will attract the younger crowd
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    Jane Merrick Retweeted
    Laura
    @fairycakes
    ·
    4h
    Was the European Super League an apprentice task?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
    B.15 In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with utmost good faith.
    So proposing working with another league is not acting in good faith?
    Proposing and dropping the proposal within 48 hours.
    You continue to demonstrate "big 6" arrogance.
    Its not arrogance to be glad the proposal was dropped within 48 hours. Most fans around the country are regardless of which club they support.

    You seem to have an extreme level of jealousy and vendetta that goes above and beyond seeing the proposal axed and football as we know it preserved.
    No, I just believe in fair play. Conspiring to ruin English football, dropping it because of a backlash, and then carrying on like nothing has happened isn't fair play. It's b*llocks.
    It was dropped. Thoughtcrime isn't a crime. No action was taken.

    The owners of the clubs have been absolutely humiliated. Woodward has lost his job. That's what is appropriate here.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
    B.15 In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with utmost good faith.
    So proposing working with another league is not acting in good faith?
    Proposing and dropping the proposal within 48 hours.
    You continue to demonstrate "big 6" arrogance.
    Its not arrogance to be glad the proposal was dropped within 48 hours. Most fans around the country are regardless of which club they support.

    You seem to have an extreme level of jealousy and vendetta that goes above and beyond seeing the proposal axed and football as we know it preserved.
    No, I just believe in fair play. Conspiring to ruin English football, dropping it because of a backlash, and then carrying on like nothing has happened isn't fair play. It's b*llocks.
    It was dropped. Thoughtcrime isn't a crime. No action was taken.

    The owners of the clubs have been absolutely humiliated. Woodward has lost his job. That's what is appropriate here.
    "No action was taken".

    Just listen to yourself man. This is hilarious.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Brom said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
    B.15 In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with utmost good faith.
    So proposing working with another league is not acting in good faith?
    Starting to sound like they broke a few rules! Poor big 6 eh!
    If they have then enforce the rules and the sanctions associated with those rules.

    But if there's no sanctions associated with those rules, or they've not been broken, then that's that.
    I can honestly say I don’t believe you’re a football fan. You’re completely blinkered by your love of Liverpool and seem the type who would happily go along with the super league if the uproar wasn’t there.

    How anyone can suggest after contravening numerous rules we should allow these clubs back with open arms and without a severe punishment beggars belief. My team was kicked out the cup last season for an incorrect submission of paperwork!

    I’m sure with your £80m players and global fanbase you can cope with a one off 30 point deduction and few million fine. These huge global brands have clearly got a lot of supporters with ethics that match the owners!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    You’d think the big 6 clubs would be in line for a significant points deduction now. Unless the league bottles it. I just find it hard to comprehend that the fans will just forget this and go back to supporting them as normal, but they probably will and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

    On what grounds would there be a points deduction?

    Its a terrible idea that has been dropped, but is there any actual rule that carries points deductions as a penalty that they have broken?

    Or are you just making it up as you go along?
    Well they’ve brought the game into disrepute, on a scale not seen in a generation. If the EFL have given a points deduction to Sheffield Wednesday then the big 6 will be lucky to not be relegated. They’ve proven to be crooked clubs with zero integrity and anyone who thinks they should go without severe punishment is either a blinkered big 6 fan or has no real care about the future of the game.

    If there isn’t a deterrent whats to stop these rats trying it again next year?
    Sheffield Wednesday broke the financial rules which have a points penalty attached.

    There is no prescribed points penalty for what the clubs did now. Maybe there should be in the future, but there isn't. There wasn't for a long time for financial irregularities and it was put in to prevent them (but they still happen).

    As for what's to stop them trying it again next year - the fan backlash. Once bitten, twice shy.
    Rely on fans of those clubs? No thanks. Middlesbrough received a points deduction for calling off a game due to injuries. Protocol means it can be voted on and the league will well be within their rights to deduct points or ban them from Europe.

    It’s the arrogance of some of the big 6 fans that puts people off “oh they shouldn’t be punished, our clubs made a mistake but we’re back now to save the league from the unglamorous midtable clashes”. I honestly think some armchair Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal fans live on a different planet where football just revolves around them.

    Even the polling that came out yesterday suggests the majority of big 6 fans expect a severe punishment for trying to join the league. An embarrassing u turn won’t be forgotten by the other 86 IMO.
    How about rely upon the rules?

    If there is a rule that carries a points deduction that applies here then that could be fair enough. If there is not then there is simply no legal reason to apply a points deduction and if done it would be overturned by the CAS.

    You can't apply a points deduction without a rule to do so.
    Oh there’s a rule for everything. Points deductions were even on the table for flouting covid laws. I think most fair minded fans can agree a tough punishment is befitting the behaviour of this week, but given the haves and have nots within the league I can’t say with any confidence it will happen.
    What rule, specifically, did they break?
    B.15 In all matters and transactions relating to the League, each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the League with utmost good faith.
    So proposing working with another league is not acting in good faith?
    Proposing and dropping the proposal within 48 hours.
    You continue to demonstrate "big 6" arrogance.
    Its not arrogance to be glad the proposal was dropped within 48 hours. Most fans around the country are regardless of which club they support.

    You seem to have an extreme level of jealousy and vendetta that goes above and beyond seeing the proposal axed and football as we know it preserved.
    No, I just believe in fair play. Conspiring to ruin English football, dropping it because of a backlash, and then carrying on like nothing has happened isn't fair play. It's b*llocks.
    It was dropped. Thoughtcrime isn't a crime. No action was taken.

    The owners of the clubs have been absolutely humiliated. Woodward has lost his job. That's what is appropriate here.
    "No action was taken".

    Just listen to yourself man. This is hilarious.
    No you just listen to yourself, you sound deranged.

    The plan was defeated, football won. Celebrate that and move on. There's no need to be bitter, twisted and hatefilled seeking a vendetta that goes beyond what is justified - this blew up in the face of those who proposed it without it ever coming into being. Your being a twisted wretch isn't a pretty look.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    dixiedean said:

    gealbhan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    As we saw earlier, the Forsa poll on this page is pretty astonishing.

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    No surprise and only what the CDU deserve after picking the hapless Laschet over Soder.

    On that poll the Greens would be largest party and the FDP up to 12% but most likely it would be a Green-SPD-Linke government on 48% combined to just 33% combined for the CDU and FDP with the AfD on 11%
    No one can form a government with the stasi, surely?
    HYUFD's only concept of coalition building is all on the Left or all on the Right.
    However that is the current governing coalition in Bremen, Berlin and Thuringia.
    I find it unlikely myself. Mostly cos the SPD desperately needs not to be a junior partner in coalition again.
    I find it hard to believe German electorate buys into the Greens manifesto and it’s costs, when push comes to shove.

    What I think is driving it is reflection on Merkel and her party presiding over decline and failures, economically, in nations stature, some huge wrong calls on refugees and covid. And German electorate didn’t say good riddance to UK when we left the EU.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    I suppose the last few days of threads, with their mono-obsession with a subject that is of less than passing interest to me, is excellent news. It means that the COVID situation is sufficiently going in the right direction that minds are wandering to the trivial.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,765
    Leon said:

    Inter Milan have gone as well


    Breaking: Inter Milan are preparing to announce they no longer want any part of the European Super League.

    [via @tariqpanja]

    If Barca go that leaves Real. Atletico and Juve. Three teams. That’s going to be awkward on match day. An odd number. Maybe they could have all three teams on the pitch, three goals, and three halves lasting 17 seconds each

    That will attract the younger crowd

    Unless this was a negotiating 4-D chess move (as beloved by Cummings) these PR/accounts types have just shit their own beds with a double-humped mammoth bowel movement.
This discussion has been closed.