There are rumours of clubs having 2nd thoughts. Specifically Chelsea and City.
When did you last go to a game, Leon?
10 years ago? Maybe more
What the F does it matter. I was a passionate - and I mean PASSIONATE fan as a kid - I would attend reserve matches of my local club - reserves! in the 4th division! - and I adored LEEDS as my big club. Travelled by train age 14 to see them at Anfield, what a day!
I was mad on club football into my 20s, then became a more detached fan, focusing more on the premiership football I like - on TV - and to this day I always watch as much euro and World Cup as I can. And UCL, I love a good competitive UCL game, the drama and energy. The mediocrity of the England national team has been a constant source of sincere pain to me, and it still is
My little home team was promoted three times and relegated the same - 3 times - in my youth. I know the pain and anguish, the joy and exhilaration. Promotion and relegation are VITAL to English football. So I can see the horror of the ESL for what it is
Yes yes, jumpers for goalposts, but all this is true. I grew up with footie and it is in my DNA even if I haven't been to an EPL game since 2000 and whatever
So you have enjoyed football at all levels.
Can you summarise for me succintly (big ask, I know) what your objection to this is. What is it going to do to the game you say you love.
You don't understand football, otherwise you would know instinctively. There's no point
But I'll have one more heave: closed shop. No relegation. Hideous. If you don't grasp this intuitively you do not comprehend football and I suggest you stop talking about it
"No relegation".
The domestic leagues will continue with relegation and promotion, etc. What's so bad about Liverpool also playing Real Madrid on a Wednesday evening.
You have literally no idea what you are talking about.
FFS you minge-head there's no relegation for the "founding fathers"
So just shut your damn mouth now
LOL. "you mong". I see you are harking back to your jumpers for goalposts time as a lad watching Aston Rovers in 1906 with your father.
So what if there is no relegation for the "founding fathers"? What does that even mean? Each year those teams will compete to win the league (if it's not a knockout competition). Who cares that there is no relegation? You get to see those teams play to see who's the best.
Be honest, you've never watched a football match in your life, have you? Not in the flesh?
You've never been to a league ground, paid money, and watched a game.
Anyone who has, instinctively gets the problem here, which is why 99% of people who watch football understand and hate the ESL idea. It's very telling that you don't
Please explain exactly what is the problem with the ESL. Try not to use the phrase "no relegation" in your answer.
Please use both sides of the page (actually, please don't).
Qualification for a competition should have been earned on the field.
Relegation is the wrong phrase since this is more of a Cup than a League. West Ham ranking higher than Liverpool if that's how the table ends means West Ham deserve the Cup next season more than Liverpool do. And I say that as a Liverpool fan, when we get it, I want us to have earned it.
And as a West Ham fan I have to say I get just as much thrill and interest in the game from the Hammers fighting (and sometimes losing) a relegation battle as I do from them fighting for a CL place. Obviously the latter is ore pleasant but it becomes kind of meaningless if the other extreme is not available.
I am a West Ham as a result of growing up in a family filled with West Ham fans (except my Mum who is a Mill Wall fan) . But I think I have retained my support for the club precisely because it has, at times, been such a roller coaster ride.
I can imagine that your mum being Millwall and your dad West Ham added, shall we say, some er 'spice' to their relationship!
It certainly made some Saturday teatimes interesting when I was growing up
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
This reminds me of Brexit pre 2016. Most people didn't care and gave it little thought. It was therefore not considered an important issue. The minority cared immensely. Votes moved because of that strength of feeling.
If Boris wants to run football he should resign and become head of the FA/FIFA /UEFA -
He certainly has the required lack of morality and ethical standards for the job
ESL files injunctions to prevent player and club bans
Source? If true, doesn’t sound like they’re backing down.
All sounds a bit like Donald Trump. Just take legal action at every stage.
The whole thing resembles a George Osborne mid term budget. We are currently at the stage of politicians visiting Greggs to show their solidarity with the workers over the pasty tax.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
There are rumours of clubs having 2nd thoughts. Specifically Chelsea and City.
When did you last go to a game, Leon?
10 years ago? Maybe more
What the F does it matter. I was a passionate - and I mean PASSIONATE fan as a kid - I would attend reserve matches of my local club - reserves! in the 4th division! - and I adored LEEDS as my big club. Travelled by train age 14 to see them at Anfield, what a day!
I was mad on club football into my 20s, then became a more detached fan, focusing more on the premiership football I like - on TV - and to this day I always watch as much euro and World Cup as I can. And UCL, I love a good competitive UCL game, the drama and energy. The mediocrity of the England national team has been a constant source of sincere pain to me, and it still is
My little home team was promoted three times and relegated the same - 3 times - in my youth. I know the pain and anguish, the joy and exhilaration. Promotion and relegation are VITAL to English football. So I can see the horror of the ESL for what it is
Yes yes, jumpers for goalposts, but all this is true. I grew up with footie and it is in my DNA even if I haven't been to an EPL game since 2000 and whatever
So you have enjoyed football at all levels.
Can you summarise for me succintly (big ask, I know) what your objection to this is. What is it going to do to the game you say you love.
You don't understand football, otherwise you would know instinctively. There's no point
But I'll have one more heave: closed shop. No relegation. Hideous. If you don't grasp this intuitively you do not comprehend football and I suggest you stop talking about it
"No relegation".
The domestic leagues will continue with relegation and promotion, etc. What's so bad about Liverpool also playing Real Madrid on a Wednesday evening.
You have literally no idea what you are talking about.
FFS you minge-head there's no relegation for the "founding fathers"
So just shut your damn mouth now
LOL. "you mong". I see you are harking back to your jumpers for goalposts time as a lad watching Aston Rovers in 1906 with your father.
So what if there is no relegation for the "founding fathers"? What does that even mean? Each year those teams will compete to win the league (if it's not a knockout competition). Who cares that there is no relegation? You get to see those teams play to see who's the best.
Be honest, you've never watched a football match in your life, have you? Not in the flesh?
You've never been to a league ground, paid money, and watched a game.
Anyone who has, instinctively gets the problem here, which is why 99% of people who watch football understand and hate the ESL idea. It's very telling that you don't
The interesting thing about this conversation, amongst the abuse, is that @TOPPING is, I think, inadvertently channelling the view of the American backers of the scheme - who come from a culture in which a competition is concocted from the top down - and therefore genuinely don't understand why anyone would see relegation as important. The idea of starting from the bottom and working your way gradually upwards just doesn't happen in American sport.
And so the backers, like, I think, Topping, unless he's trolling, genuinely don't understand the nature of the opposition to this. They genuinely view fans as customers.
I say this not as a criticism of either Topping or the American owners, just as a reflection that there is an important lack of understanding amongst some people with a surprisingly large stake in all this of how European (British?) sports fans view sports.
I am perfectly aware of the importance of "working your way up". But this is a separate league. Teams will still be able to work their way up to the top of the EPL. But it won't be with those top six clubs. So the fans of those top six clubs will be disappointed not to win the EPL. But that is down to UEFA.
Oh, well possibly we agree. Apologies if I was misrepresenting you. My position is that the super league is stupid, because closed shop and no relegation. The EPL is not stupid, because not closed shop. Therefore, the super league will start out dull and get duller, and its attraction will dwindle in a way that those from a different sporting culture don't understand. The EPL will be fine without the big six (who can't really be allowed to stay and play their second string sides). It'll lose some money initially, but that's no bad thing for the consumer, and it'll be fine in the long run.
Yes I think that's right the only big question mark being will the ESL get duller and duller? Not sure. Perhaps. But I'm guessing it could be like the Harlem Globetrotters. Or those clubs will go all out to be as good and competitive as possible in the ESL and it will be cracking football.
I do think it introduces all kinds of distortions. Clubs will have bad years. In the EPL, for most of the season there's something in play for most of the clubs. Title might be beyond reach (from the start for most clubs!) but Champions League and Europa are the things at stake for the better performing clubs; relegation is a possibility for all that are too far down to have a shout at those. Sure, towards the end of the season there are some mid-table dead games, but not for that many clubs for that long.
So, Arsenal drift a bit (it's common, I'm a fan of almost four decades, I know how it goes...). They're not on form to take the title. But they can't get relegated. Who gives a shit any more? I'd still be interested in tuning in to see them hopefully give Spurs a kicking and Man U or Liverpool for old times sake, but watching them get thumped by Real while going through the motions? Yawn. I'd rather be off watching a new Woolwich Arsenal battling it out with Manchester Reunited in the lower leagues.
Now, your global audience that doesn't really have a strong team attachment and just wants to wach good footie? They'll likely lap it up. It probably will be commercially successful. But for those of us who support our father's team, who never 'chose' our team? Well, that club will no longer exist. But then, maybe it already doesn't.
Also, I'm with Philip. Add relegation and it doesn't really matter, particularly if the teams stay in their national leagues too (and that's the route for getting back in once relegated). It's champions league on steroids and I don't really care whether UEFA run the champions league or the clubs do as, to be frank, I'm not that invested in the champions league. I'll watch it. If my team's doing well I'll watch it with interest/excitement, but I can take it or leave it otherwise.
The issue is that relegation is the one thing these clubs cannot risk or stand - they need a static league without fear of dropping out to generate the income / profits they think they deserve.
Was it Leeds who got an American chairman a decade or so ago, who had to have it explained to him literally hundreds of times by different members of staff what a “relegation battle” was?
He genuinely thought he’d bought a “Premier League Franchise” and didn’t understand the pyramid at all - which was brought home to him when his team did indeed get relagated.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
Dead wrong about Trump? Me and millions of other punters. that the best you got treacle? How many more were wrong about remain in 2016? FFS.
The reason my posting riles you is like all the other fake tories on here, and out there, you fear being undermined from the right, you fear being called out on the wholesale departure of the Johnson government from any form of conservatism whatsoever.
Well suck it up bucko, because I intend to keep sticking it to you and all the other pant wetting pinko tories going. Particularly you. I live to stick it to you.
So buy in the nappies matey.
Lol. I very much look forward to Reform sticking it to us in May, assuming of course that that prediction doesn't work out like all your others.
One thing I do know is I have made no predictions with regard to advances from Reform whatever. Or Reclaim.
Anything Reform do in terms of material advances or setbacks is in your imagination. I have no idea how they will do.
There are rumours of clubs having 2nd thoughts. Specifically Chelsea and City.
When did you last go to a game, Leon?
10 years ago? Maybe more
What the F does it matter. I was a passionate - and I mean PASSIONATE fan as a kid - I would attend reserve matches of my local club - reserves! in the 4th division! - and I adored LEEDS as my big club. Travelled by train age 14 to see them at Anfield, what a day!
I was mad on club football into my 20s, then became a more detached fan, focusing more on the premiership football I like - on TV - and to this day I always watch as much euro and World Cup as I can. And UCL, I love a good competitive UCL game, the drama and energy. The mediocrity of the England national team has been a constant source of sincere pain to me, and it still is
My little home team was promoted three times and relegated the same - 3 times - in my youth. I know the pain and anguish, the joy and exhilaration. Promotion and relegation are VITAL to English football. So I can see the horror of the ESL for what it is
Yes yes, jumpers for goalposts, but all this is true. I grew up with footie and it is in my DNA even if I haven't been to an EPL game since 2000 and whatever
So you have enjoyed football at all levels.
Can you summarise for me succintly (big ask, I know) what your objection to this is. What is it going to do to the game you say you love.
You don't understand football, otherwise you would know instinctively. There's no point
But I'll have one more heave: closed shop. No relegation. Hideous. If you don't grasp this intuitively you do not comprehend football and I suggest you stop talking about it
"No relegation".
The domestic leagues will continue with relegation and promotion, etc. What's so bad about Liverpool also playing Real Madrid on a Wednesday evening.
You have literally no idea what you are talking about.
FFS you minge-head there's no relegation for the "founding fathers"
So just shut your damn mouth now
LOL. "you mong". I see you are harking back to your jumpers for goalposts time as a lad watching Aston Rovers in 1906 with your father.
So what if there is no relegation for the "founding fathers"? What does that even mean? Each year those teams will compete to win the league (if it's not a knockout competition). Who cares that there is no relegation? You get to see those teams play to see who's the best.
Be honest, you've never watched a football match in your life, have you? Not in the flesh?
You've never been to a league ground, paid money, and watched a game.
Anyone who has, instinctively gets the problem here, which is why 99% of people who watch football understand and hate the ESL idea. It's very telling that you don't
The interesting thing about this conversation, amongst the abuse, is that @TOPPING is, I think, inadvertently channelling the view of the American backers of the scheme - who come from a culture in which a competition is concocted from the top down - and therefore genuinely don't understand why anyone would see relegation as important. The idea of starting from the bottom and working your way gradually upwards just doesn't happen in American sport.
And so the backers, like, I think, Topping, unless he's trolling, genuinely don't understand the nature of the opposition to this. They genuinely view fans as customers.
I say this not as a criticism of either Topping or the American owners, just as a reflection that there is an important lack of understanding amongst some people with a surprisingly large stake in all this of how European (British?) sports fans view sports.
I am perfectly aware of the importance of "working your way up". But this is a separate league. Teams will still be able to work their way up to the top of the EPL. But it won't be with those top six clubs. So the fans of those top six clubs will be disappointed not to win the EPL. But that is down to UEFA.
Oh, well possibly we agree. Apologies if I was misrepresenting you. My position is that the super league is stupid, because closed shop and no relegation. The EPL is not stupid, because not closed shop. Therefore, the super league will start out dull and get duller, and its attraction will dwindle in a way that those from a different sporting culture don't understand. The EPL will be fine without the big six (who can't really be allowed to stay and play their second string sides). It'll lose some money initially, but that's no bad thing for the consumer, and it'll be fine in the long run.
Yes I think that's right the only big question mark being will the ESL get duller and duller? Not sure. Perhaps. But I'm guessing it could be like the Harlem Globetrotters. Or those clubs will go all out to be as good and competitive as possible in the ESL and it will be cracking football.
I do think it introduces all kinds of distortions. Clubs will have bad years. In the EPL, for most of the season there's something in play for most of the clubs. Title might be beyond reach (from the start for most clubs!) but Champions League and Europa are the things at stake for the better performing clubs; relegation is a possibility for all that are too far down to have a shout at those. Sure, towards the end of the season there are some mid-table dead games, but not for that many clubs for that long.
So, Arsenal drift a bit (it's common, I'm a fan of almost four decades, I know how it goes...). They're not on form to take the title. But they can't get relegated. Who gives a shit any more? I'd still be interested in tuning in to see them hopefully give Spurs a kicking and Man U or Liverpool for old times sake, but watching them get thumped by Real while going through the motions? Yawn. I'd rather be off watching a new Woolwich Arsenal battling it out with Manchester Reunited in the lower leagues.
Now, your global audience that doesn't really have a strong team attachment and just wants to wach good footie? They'll likely lap it up. It probably will be commercially successful. But for those of us who support our father's team, who never 'chose' our team? Well, that club will no longer exist. But then, maybe it already doesn't.
Well first I think it already doesn't. In the absence of anyone previously putting up any coherent argument against the ESL I put one up myself and came to the conclusion that it could be that as no one can get booted out, no one makes an effort and, as you say, the "quality" (eye of the beholder) dwindles and dwindles. But again as you say, that is fine because people will either not (pay to) watch it or will.
And my guess is that there may be some incentive structure to ensure that the clubs really do want to win it. And I've got to believe that if "your" team was playing you would want them to beat Real, Spurs, etc.
I always want to beat Spurs
I can say from experience, that in European competitions when it doesn't matter (i.e. we've already lost enough to know we're not going to progress from the group stages) then I've little to no interest in Arsenal playing $randomeuropeanclub. That does also happen towards the end of the EPL season if there's little at stake, but the list of clubs I'd just like us to beat in any game is longer. And there's normally something at stake - even if we're comfortable in a Champions League place, there's still finishing third above Spurs, for example.
The trouble here, for me, is towards the end of the ESL season and we can't win the title, we can't get relegated, we're playing one of the non-England clubs. Who cares? Answer, probably still plenty of people worldwide to make a killing on the TV rights, and them caring much more than say Arsenal versus Burnley in a dead rubber in the EPL.
I do think it will be commercially successful. FWIW I don't think the government should intervene (I can't really see the grounds for doing so without opening up interesting cans of worms). I don't think I'd have a great deal of interest in it.
You are asking the right questions and answering them! Arsenal aren't going to be relegated although I wouldn't put it past them and dead rubbers are dead rubbers. I don't care about those games you mention whether in the CL or the EPL although let's not forget that right now, Arsenal would be the Burnley of the ESL. But for those competing for top spot would want to make it competitive and that is what marks it out from a group stage competition.
Will it be commercially successful? Who knows. The boys and girls at JP have presumably crunched the numbers and will not either be surprised to see the fans' reaction. But it should rest on that - commercial success or otherwise, not the govt.
I think it is worth pointing out that at this moment in time - with between 5 and 7 gams left to play for each team in the PL, there is nota single team that currently does not have a mathematical chance of either being relegated or securing one of the European spots.
More realistically there are probably only 7 teams which are probably safe from relegation but are unlikely to make a European spot.
If you remove the opportunity to play in Europe that massively diminishes the PL as a league and does terrible damage to football in England.
Although an unexpected route to a European place from 13th is no longer entirely impossible.
The best take on the ESL - from a Corbynite Labour activist
Omar Salem @OmarSalem If you oppose the Super League do you also oppose permanent seats at the UN Security Council?
Criteria for a permanent seat was nuclear weapons at x point in time. My only comment would be that India probably deserves a permanent seat but that creates an issue with Pakistan so you can see why things haven't changed.
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
Football fans I think tend to overestimate how many avid football fans there are purely because they are noisy on this subject.
Quote During a December 2019 survey conducted by Capgemini, 15 percent of respondents from the United Kingdom stated that they were avid sports fans.
Couldn't find one specifically on football but I think we can assume the vast bulk of that 15% are football fans
That's ten million Brits who are AVID sports fans. About as many people as voted Labour in 2019
And that's just the AVID ones. I would probably not call myself "avid" - not like I was as a boy - but I do enjoy sport a lot
So there's maybe 10-20 million more like me?
Of course the government is gonna get involved
I very much doubt its anywhere near 20 million, personal experience tells me that back in the 80's and 90's football was a common work topic....nowadays hardly hear it mentioned. We did have one guy on our team in the office who when he started would mention it but he stopped when he realised no one else was interested. That is on our team of ten
Yeah, but you claim you speak Cornish as a native language, so there's that
There's also that the very same poster recently claimed it annoyed him how frequently people talked to him about football, assuming he liked it because he is male. Anyone would think he shapes the story to the situation...
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
Whilst we are on politics and football......about 24 months and £100m of client losses too late, the govt is now going to have a look at how Football Index worked.
As Football Index dies, along comes Sorare.....with the invention of the blockchain, all these companies are finding creative ways around calling themselves gambling companies and thus able to avoid the relevant legislation.
Sorare is marketed as an "NFT" card collecting game, but in reality its another gambling game.
We really need to have a new updated gambling act...
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
It depends what you mean by "enter".
Is a tournament only entered at kick off at its first match?
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
I don't think they missed it I think they thought having 6 members involved ensures something else could be invoked....
However it wouldn't be the first time lawyers missed the obvious.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
It depends what you mean by "enter".
Is a tournament only entered at kick off at its first match?
Entered surely means "signing a contract committing to play", which that Spanish git says they've done
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
There's a rumour that PL have created an estoppel by convention by not insisting on that rule being honoured when the clubs entered tournaments like the International Champions Cup and the Audi Cup.
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
Football fans I think tend to overestimate how many avid football fans there are purely because they are noisy on this subject.
Quote During a December 2019 survey conducted by Capgemini, 15 percent of respondents from the United Kingdom stated that they were avid sports fans.
Couldn't find one specifically on football but I think we can assume the vast bulk of that 15% are football fans
That's ten million Brits who are AVID sports fans. About as many people as voted Labour in 2019
And that's just the AVID ones. I would probably not call myself "avid" - not like I was as a boy - but I do enjoy sport a lot
So there's maybe 10-20 million more like me?
Of course the government is gonna get involved
I very much doubt its anywhere near 20 million, personal experience tells me that back in the 80's and 90's football was a common work topic....nowadays hardly hear it mentioned. We did have one guy on our team in the office who when he started would mention it but he stopped when he realised no one else was interested. That is on our team of ten
Yeah, but you claim you speak Cornish as a native language, so there's that
There's also that the very same poster recently claimed it annoyed him how frequently people talked to him about football, assuming he liked it because he is male. Anyone would think he shapes the story to the situation...
Which I pointed out was prevalent in the 80's and 90's and yes it used to annoy the crap out of me. Thankfully these days that is no longer so much the case as people have better things to talk about. Sorry if it upsets you that I don't want the uk governement ripping up the rulebook about businesses just because a few football fans have a snit
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
It depends what you mean by "enter".
Is a tournament only entered at kick off at its first match?
Entered surely means "signing a contract committing to play", which that Spanish git says they've done
Yes, but they haven't entered a contest that plays this season, just at some future date.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
It depends what you mean by "enter".
Is a tournament only entered at kick off at its first match?
Entered surely means "signing a contract committing to play", which that Spanish git says they've done
I have a long running argument (15 years now) with the CEO of a recruitment agency over what the exact meaning of the word "introduction" is in a 2003 act of Parliament.
Truth is we won't know until it goes to court but a court cases costs £300,000+ and it's cheaper to just pay the person off.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
Topping falls for the smart room paradox. He assumes the movers and shakers of this venture are on top of their shit because they’re rich. They’re probably not, I’ve met loads of complete morons who are billionaires. And often they hire complete morons because they can’t tell them apart. Hiring T May’s PR person is one example.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
There's a rumour that PL have created an estoppel by convention by not insisting on that rule being honoured when the clubs entered tournaments like the International Champions Cup and the Audi Cup.
Would not the counterargument to that be that participation in the ICC or AC in the manner seen to date did not have, nor could conceivably have had, a serious detrimental impact on the EPL and the purposes for which the EPL was formed and therefore cannot form the basis of an estoppel by convention as Rule 9 is there to prevent the viability of the EPL, and they do not rise to the level of threatening it.
Been thinking about ESL this morning. Watched James Corden’s excellent, passionate demolition of the Satanic Six.
I’m angrier than ever. And more clear-headed. The problem with this breakaway is that the owners are treating the clubs as pure businesses because they’re privately owned. But that’s not the case. It’s like saying Blenheim Palace is purely a business, or Chatsworth House, because they are also privately owned.
If you buy Blenheim Palace from the Duke of Marlborough you’re entitled to make a profit from it, you can open it wider to the public, chuck in some more cafes, maybe even have a safari park. You get the fun of being the Owner of a Palace. But the fun is not unlimited. What you can’t do is knock half of Blenheim down to build a skyscraper hotel, or transport it brick by brick to Shanghai.
You can’t do that because it’s Grade 1 Listed and it is has serious protection from the state, as an historic treasure and a cultural adornment, beautifying the nation
The great football clubs of Britain are just as important, socially, culturally, historically, as stately homes. Perhaps more so. The government should create some form of Grade 1 listing for these vital assets. Yes they can be bought and sold, and yes you can make a profit. But no, they are not “franchises”
List them. Tell the owners to get stuffed
I agree with the sentiment, however I think Blenheim Palace is owned by a charitable trust.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
That post actually got me LOLing. Bravo!
So far he's been able to produce an allegation I called the US election for Trump. Big deal. Me and Millions of others. If Rasmussen's poll is right many Americans still think Trump won.
YOu called a whole load of states for Biden that would have cleaned out many punters.
Theer was a whole thread on here on why people should put their shirt on Biden for North Carolina. conveniently forgotten.
Whilst we are on politics and football......about 24 months and £100m of client losses too late, the govt is now going to have a look at how Football Index worked.
As Football Index dies, along comes Sorare.....with the invention of the blockchain, all these companies are finding creative ways around calling themselves gambling companies and thus able to avoid the relevant legislation.
Sorare is marketed as an "NFT" card collecting game, but in reality its another gambling game.
We really need to have a new updated gambling act...
Personally think this was a failure of FCA more than the GC as the firm advertised as a stock exchange. And the GC could have decided it was not prudent to license a business model they clearly didn't comprehend, without new legislation.
If we do get a new gambling act prepare for it to be far more restrictive and controlling than we have been used to, maximum loss limits of £50/£100 per month without opt outs and people only allowed to bet with one bookmaker are being seriously discussed and promoted. For those who do this seriously such restrictions would obviously be close of play.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
Dead wrong about Trump? Me and millions of other punters. that the best you got treacle? How many more were wrong about remain in 2016? FFS.
The reason my posting riles you is like all the other fake tories on here, and out there, you fear being undermined from the right, you fear being called out on the wholesale departure of the Johnson government from any form of conservatism whatsoever.
Well suck it up bucko, because I intend to keep sticking it to you and all the other pant wetting pinko tories going. Particularly you. I live to stick it to you.
So buy in the nappies matey.
Lol. I very much look forward to Reform sticking it to us in May, assuming of course that that prediction doesn't work out like all your others.
One thing I do know is I have made no predictions with regard to advances from Reform whatever. Or Reclaim.
Anything Reform do in terms of material advances or setbacks is in your imagination. I have no idea how they will do.
So what is your claim? That people are enraged with the fake, pant-wetting, pinko Tories and are primed and ready for a real party of the Right, but at the same time they aren't actually going to bother switching their vote to it when they have a prime opportunity to do so?
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
There's a rumour that PL have created an estoppel by convention by not insisting on that rule being honoured when the clubs entered tournaments like the International Champions Cup and the Audi Cup.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
That post actually got me LOLing. Bravo!
So far he's been able to produce an allegation I called the US election for Trump. Big deal. Me and Millions of others. If Rasmussen's poll is right many Americans still think Trump won.
YOu called a whole load of states for Biden that would have cleaned out many punters.
Theer was a whole thread on here on why people should put their shirt on Biden for North Carolina. conveniently forgotten.
But we all make mistakes eh?
Only morons believe Trump won, so sayeth Trump's lawyer.
"Even assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false, no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,"
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
There's a rumour that PL have created an estoppel by convention by not insisting on that rule being honoured when the clubs entered tournaments like the International Champions Cup and the Audi Cup.
Edit - Oh and the World Club Cup.
Depends if they had prior written approval from the Board. If they did then that falls within the rules. I would assume that they would have sought and received such approval and that the PL could reasonably argue they gave it because the competitions were not a commercial threat to them.
There are rumours of clubs having 2nd thoughts. Specifically Chelsea and City.
When did you last go to a game, Leon?
10 years ago? Maybe more
What the F does it matter. I was a passionate - and I mean PASSIONATE fan as a kid - I would attend reserve matches of my local club - reserves! in the 4th division! - and I adored LEEDS as my big club. Travelled by train age 14 to see them at Anfield, what a day!
I was mad on club football into my 20s, then became a more detached fan, focusing more on the premiership football I like - on TV - and to this day I always watch as much euro and World Cup as I can. And UCL, I love a good competitive UCL game, the drama and energy. The mediocrity of the England national team has been a constant source of sincere pain to me, and it still is
My little home team was promoted three times and relegated the same - 3 times - in my youth. I know the pain and anguish, the joy and exhilaration. Promotion and relegation are VITAL to English football. So I can see the horror of the ESL for what it is
Yes yes, jumpers for goalposts, but all this is true. I grew up with footie and it is in my DNA even if I haven't been to an EPL game since 2000 and whatever
So you have enjoyed football at all levels.
Can you summarise for me succintly (big ask, I know) what your objection to this is. What is it going to do to the game you say you love.
You don't understand football, otherwise you would know instinctively. There's no point
But I'll have one more heave: closed shop. No relegation. Hideous. If you don't grasp this intuitively you do not comprehend football and I suggest you stop talking about it
"No relegation".
The domestic leagues will continue with relegation and promotion, etc. What's so bad about Liverpool also playing Real Madrid on a Wednesday evening.
You have literally no idea what you are talking about.
FFS you minge-head there's no relegation for the "founding fathers"
So just shut your damn mouth now
LOL. "you mong". I see you are harking back to your jumpers for goalposts time as a lad watching Aston Rovers in 1906 with your father.
So what if there is no relegation for the "founding fathers"? What does that even mean? Each year those teams will compete to win the league (if it's not a knockout competition). Who cares that there is no relegation? You get to see those teams play to see who's the best.
Be honest, you've never watched a football match in your life, have you? Not in the flesh?
You've never been to a league ground, paid money, and watched a game.
Anyone who has, instinctively gets the problem here, which is why 99% of people who watch football understand and hate the ESL idea. It's very telling that you don't
The interesting thing about this conversation, amongst the abuse, is that @TOPPING is, I think, inadvertently channelling the view of the American backers of the scheme - who come from a culture in which a competition is concocted from the top down - and therefore genuinely don't understand why anyone would see relegation as important. The idea of starting from the bottom and working your way gradually upwards just doesn't happen in American sport.
And so the backers, like, I think, Topping, unless he's trolling, genuinely don't understand the nature of the opposition to this. They genuinely view fans as customers.
I say this not as a criticism of either Topping or the American owners, just as a reflection that there is an important lack of understanding amongst some people with a surprisingly large stake in all this of how European (British?) sports fans view sports.
I am perfectly aware of the importance of "working your way up". But this is a separate league. Teams will still be able to work their way up to the top of the EPL. But it won't be with those top six clubs. So the fans of those top six clubs will be disappointed not to win the EPL. But that is down to UEFA.
Oh, well possibly we agree. Apologies if I was misrepresenting you. My position is that the super league is stupid, because closed shop and no relegation. The EPL is not stupid, because not closed shop. Therefore, the super league will start out dull and get duller, and its attraction will dwindle in a way that those from a different sporting culture don't understand. The EPL will be fine without the big six (who can't really be allowed to stay and play their second string sides). It'll lose some money initially, but that's no bad thing for the consumer, and it'll be fine in the long run.
Yes I think that's right the only big question mark being will the ESL get duller and duller? Not sure. Perhaps. But I'm guessing it could be like the Harlem Globetrotters. Or those clubs will go all out to be as good and competitive as possible in the ESL and it will be cracking football.
I do think it introduces all kinds of distortions. Clubs will have bad years. In the EPL, for most of the season there's something in play for most of the clubs. Title might be beyond reach (from the start for most clubs!) but Champions League and Europa are the things at stake for the better performing clubs; relegation is a possibility for all that are too far down to have a shout at those. Sure, towards the end of the season there are some mid-table dead games, but not for that many clubs for that long.
So, Arsenal drift a bit (it's common, I'm a fan of almost four decades, I know how it goes...). They're not on form to take the title. But they can't get relegated. Who gives a shit any more? I'd still be interested in tuning in to see them hopefully give Spurs a kicking and Man U or Liverpool for old times sake, but watching them get thumped by Real while going through the motions? Yawn. I'd rather be off watching a new Woolwich Arsenal battling it out with Manchester Reunited in the lower leagues.
Now, your global audience that doesn't really have a strong team attachment and just wants to wach good footie? They'll likely lap it up. It probably will be commercially successful. But for those of us who support our father's team, who never 'chose' our team? Well, that club will no longer exist. But then, maybe it already doesn't.
Well first I think it already doesn't. In the absence of anyone previously putting up any coherent argument against the ESL I put one up myself and came to the conclusion that it could be that as no one can get booted out, no one makes an effort and, as you say, the "quality" (eye of the beholder) dwindles and dwindles. But again as you say, that is fine because people will either not (pay to) watch it or will.
And my guess is that there may be some incentive structure to ensure that the clubs really do want to win it. And I've got to believe that if "your" team was playing you would want them to beat Real, Spurs, etc.
I always want to beat Spurs
I can say from experience, that in European competitions when it doesn't matter (i.e. we've already lost enough to know we're not going to progress from the group stages) then I've little to no interest in Arsenal playing $randomeuropeanclub. That does also happen towards the end of the EPL season if there's little at stake, but the list of clubs I'd just like us to beat in any game is longer. And there's normally something at stake - even if we're comfortable in a Champions League place, there's still finishing third above Spurs, for example.
The trouble here, for me, is towards the end of the ESL season and we can't win the title, we can't get relegated, we're playing one of the non-England clubs. Who cares? Answer, probably still plenty of people worldwide to make a killing on the TV rights, and them caring much more than say Arsenal versus Burnley in a dead rubber in the EPL.
I do think it will be commercially successful. FWIW I don't think the government should intervene (I can't really see the grounds for doing so without opening up interesting cans of worms). I don't think I'd have a great deal of interest in it.
You are asking the right questions and answering them! Arsenal aren't going to be relegated although I wouldn't put it past them and dead rubbers are dead rubbers. I don't care about those games you mention whether in the CL or the EPL although let's not forget that right now, Arsenal would be the Burnley of the ESL. But for those competing for top spot would want to make it competitive and that is what marks it out from a group stage competition.
Will it be commercially successful? Who knows. The boys and girls at JP have presumably crunched the numbers and will not either be surprised to see the fans' reaction. But it should rest on that - commercial success or otherwise, not the govt.
I think it is worth pointing out that at this moment in time - with between 5 and 7 gams left to play for each team in the PL, there is nota single team that currently does not have a mathematical chance of either being relegated or securing one of the European spots.
More realistically there are probably only 7 teams which are probably safe from relegation but are unlikely to make a European spot.
If you remove the opportunity to play in Europe that massively diminishes the PL as a league and does terrible damage to football in England.
The Champions League will continue to exist. Just perhaps with/without Real, etc.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
That post actually got me LOLing. Bravo!
So far he's been able to produce an allegation I called the US election for Trump. Big deal. Me and Millions of others. If Rasmussen's poll is right many Americans still think Trump won.
YOu called a whole load of states for Biden that would have cleaned out many punters.
Theer was a whole thread on here on why people should put their shirt on Biden for North Carolina. conveniently forgotten.
But we all make mistakes eh?
Only morons believe Trump won, so sayeth Trump's lawyer.
"Even assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false, no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,"
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
That post actually got me LOLing. Bravo!
So far he's been able to produce an allegation I called the US election for Trump. Big deal. Me and Millions of others. If Rasmussen's poll is right many Americans still think Trump won.
YOu called a whole load of states for Biden that would have cleaned out many punters.
Theer was a whole thread on here on why people should put their shirt on Biden for North Carolina. conveniently forgotten.
But we all make mistakes eh?
ER NO.
I called states for TRUMP that would have cleaned out many punters, including myself. I also called the election for TRUMP.
Unlike you and @MrEd, both of whom keep repeating this utter fiction, I admitted to my gross error at the time, repeatedly, publicly on here. Biden won, and won decisively. AGAIN: I WAS WRONG
Meantime, you take solace in a 'Rasmussen poll' that says a bunch of incels in the States still think Trump won the election. Add those to the fake-moon landings tin-hat wearers and the folks who think Elvis works behind the bar at their local crazy golf club.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
There's a rumour that PL have created an estoppel by convention by not insisting on that rule being honoured when the clubs entered tournaments like the International Champions Cup and the Audi Cup.
Topping falls for the smart room paradox. He assumes the movers and shakers of this venture are on top of their shit because they’re rich. They’re probably not, I’ve met loads of complete morons who are billionaires. And often they hire complete morons because they can’t tell them apart. Hiring T May’s PR person is one example.
It is highly likely both of the above are completely true.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
There's a rumour that PL have created an estoppel by convention by not insisting on that rule being honoured when the clubs entered tournaments like the International Champions Cup and the Audi Cup.
Edit - Oh and the World Club Cup.
During the season seems key here. In the off season they are allowed to enter such competitions without this restriction.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
That post actually got me LOLing. Bravo!
So far he's been able to produce an allegation I called the US election for Trump. Big deal. Me and Millions of others. If Rasmussen's poll is right many Americans still think Trump won.
YOu called a whole load of states for Biden that would have cleaned out many punters.
Theer was a whole thread on here on why people should put their shirt on Biden for North Carolina. conveniently forgotten.
But we all make mistakes eh?
Only morons believe Trump won, so sayeth Trump's lawyer.
"Even assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false, no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,"
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
Football fans I think tend to overestimate how many avid football fans there are purely because they are noisy on this subject.
Quote During a December 2019 survey conducted by Capgemini, 15 percent of respondents from the United Kingdom stated that they were avid sports fans.
Couldn't find one specifically on football but I think we can assume the vast bulk of that 15% are football fans
It's an interesting one. I'm really disengaged from football and couldn't really care less, but it's noticeable how much noise this story has generated. That's either because most people are really into football (which makes me a freakish minority), or the minority who are actually really into football are very noisy and/or influential.
It is something that seems to have an outsize cultural and political influence therefore not something to be messed with lightly. Politicians in particular are always banging on about their football allegiances.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
That post actually got me LOLing. Bravo!
So far he's been able to produce an allegation I called the US election for Trump. Big deal. Me and Millions of others. If Rasmussen's poll is right many Americans still think Trump won.
YOu called a whole load of states for Biden that would have cleaned out many punters.
Theer was a whole thread on here on why people should put their shirt on Biden for North Carolina. conveniently forgotten.
But we all make mistakes eh?
Only morons believe Trump won, so sayeth Trump's lawyer.
"Even assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false, no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,"
That is a bizarre sentence in itself, why are they making a point suggesting it is difficult to say if its true or false, whilst simultaneously, in the very same sentence, saying no reasonable person would think they are true?
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
Football fans I think tend to overestimate how many avid football fans there are purely because they are noisy on this subject.
Quote During a December 2019 survey conducted by Capgemini, 15 percent of respondents from the United Kingdom stated that they were avid sports fans.
Couldn't find one specifically on football but I think we can assume the vast bulk of that 15% are football fans
It's an interesting one. I'm really disengaged from football and couldn't really care less, but it's noticeable how much noise this story has generated. That's either because most people are really into football (which makes me a freakish minority), or the minority who are actually really into football are very noisy and/or influential.
It is something that seems to have an outsize cultural and political influence therefore not something to be messed with lightly. Politicians in particular are always banging on about their football allegiances.
It's also something to report on that isn't Covid, a story that is moving quickly and that a lot of people have an opinion on.
ESL files injunctions to prevent player and club bans
Do the dolts on here really think that this all wasn't thought through before they launched?
I am sure they have this planned down to the last detail
Though I very much doubt they expected this onslaught against them
Oh I'm pretty sure they "wargamed" this reaction, Big G.
What happens now is down to [a] what their ultimate goal really is and [b] how well both sides' lawyers play their cards and muster their allies.
I would assume the ESL lawyers have been planning their strategy for months (years). Has the PL been preparing its defense as assiduously?
Nah, they clearly had no idea they would get this intense hatred. Did they wargame Marcus Rashford saying No?
They have admitted as much: "they are nervous and disappointed by the way it's been handled", "they don't know how much more of this they can take"
One possibility is that they did all this to pressure UEFA into changing the Champions League and they presumed that UEFA would fold without ever going public. Then UEFA didn't and it either got out and they had to go with it and / or are still playing a high risk game of brinksmanship.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
That post actually got me LOLing. Bravo!
So far he's been able to produce an allegation I called the US election for Trump. Big deal. Me and Millions of others. If Rasmussen's poll is right many Americans still think Trump won.
YOu called a whole load of states for Biden that would have cleaned out many punters.
Theer was a whole thread on here on why people should put their shirt on Biden for North Carolina. conveniently forgotten.
But we all make mistakes eh?
Only morons believe Trump won, so sayeth Trump's lawyer.
"Even assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false, no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,"
As party activists vented at their county convention, the chair of the Cobb County Young Republicans, DeAnna Harris, stewed in the parking lot of her local party office.
“Huge mistake,” she said of the hostilities directed at Kemp and the reliving of 2020. “We’ve got to get out of this mindset. It’s almost like insanity.”...
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
There's a rumour that PL have created an estoppel by convention by not insisting on that rule being honoured when the clubs entered tournaments like the International Champions Cup and the Audi Cup.
Edit - Oh and the World Club Cup.
During the season seems key here. In the off season they are allowed to enter such competitions without this restriction.
The Club World Cup and the European Super Cup usually take place during the season.
I think some elements of the ICC took place during the season.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
Topping falls for the smart room paradox. He assumes the movers and shakers of this venture are on top of their shit because they’re rich. They’re probably not, I’ve met loads of complete morons who are billionaires. And often they hire complete morons because they can’t tell them apart. Hiring T May’s PR person is one example.
Good you label people as morons as well as trolls when you don't like their opinion.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
That post actually got me LOLing. Bravo!
So far he's been able to produce an allegation I called the US election for Trump. Big deal. Me and Millions of others. If Rasmussen's poll is right many Americans still think Trump won.
YOu called a whole load of states for Biden that would have cleaned out many punters.
Theer was a whole thread on here on why people should put their shirt on Biden for North Carolina. conveniently forgotten.
But we all make mistakes eh?
Only morons believe Trump won, so sayeth Trump's lawyer.
"Even assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false, no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,"
That is a bizarre sentence in itself, why are they making a point suggesting it is difficult to say if its true or false, whilst simultaneously, in the very same sentence, saying no reasonable person would think they are true?
Is Arguendo his pet cat?
I'm sure that Estoppel featured in a film once. Was it The Taking of Pelham 123?
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
Football fans I think tend to overestimate how many avid football fans there are purely because they are noisy on this subject.
Quote During a December 2019 survey conducted by Capgemini, 15 percent of respondents from the United Kingdom stated that they were avid sports fans.
Couldn't find one specifically on football but I think we can assume the vast bulk of that 15% are football fans
It's an interesting one. I'm really disengaged from football and couldn't really care less, but it's noticeable how much noise this story has generated. That's either because most people are really into football (which makes me a freakish minority), or the minority who are actually really into football are very noisy and/or influential.
It is something that seems to have an outsize cultural and political influence therefore not something to be messed with lightly. Politicians in particular are always banging on about their football allegiances.
I am the same , no real interest in this. Where I step in and make concerns know is where people think the government should interfere particularly as many of the views espoused such as confiscation of assets and ip with no recompense and trying to stop business owners setting up a competing trade association to the ones existing. They are dangerous roads to go down.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
There's a rumour that PL have created an estoppel by convention by not insisting on that rule being honoured when the clubs entered tournaments like the International Champions Cup and the Audi Cup.
Edit - Oh and the World Club Cup.
During the season seems key here. In the off season they are allowed to enter such competitions without this restriction.
The Club World Cup and the European Super Cup usually take place during the season.
I think some elements of the ICC took place during the season.
It's going to be a mess.
both competitions involve matches being moved around to facilitate the teams playing - so I would have thought that was justification to show approval was given albeit not to the exact letter of the rules.
ESL files injunctions to prevent player and club bans
Do the dolts on here really think that this all wasn't thought through before they launched?
I am sure they have this planned down to the last detail
Though I very much doubt they expected this onslaught against them
Oh I'm pretty sure they "wargamed" this reaction, Big G.
What happens now is down to [a] what their ultimate goal really is and [b] how well both sides' lawyers play their cards and muster their allies.
I would assume the ESL lawyers have been planning their strategy for months (years). Has the PL been preparing its defense as assiduously?
Nah, they clearly had no idea they would get this intense hatred. Did they wargame Marcus Rashford saying No?
They have admitted as much: "they are nervous and disappointed by the way it's been handled", "they don't know how much more of this they can take"
One possibility is that they did all this to pressure UEFA into changing the Champions League and they presumed that UEFA would fold without ever going public. Then UEFA didn't and it either got out and they had to go with it and / or are still playing a high risk game of brinksmanship.
I'm going with conspiracy AND cock-up. They really thought they could get away with this, they got lawyers to check everything, they just didn't expect the intense degree of anger and loathing, from all sides, which is only building. And I doubt they expected a Tory government to interfere
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
There's a rumour that PL have created an estoppel by convention by not insisting on that rule being honoured when the clubs entered tournaments like the International Champions Cup and the Audi Cup.
Edit - Oh and the World Club Cup.
During the season seems key here. In the off season they are allowed to enter such competitions without this restriction.
The Club World Cup and the European Super Cup usually take place during the season.
I think some elements of the ICC took place during the season.
It's going to be a mess.
The Club World Cup and European Super Cup pre existed the PL if that makes a difference.
The ICC is a pre season tournament, if any matches have been played during the season it wont have been first team.
The thing I don't understand with ESL is why they went with the Closed Shop. That is what has screwed the PR entirely.
The potential gain of grasping control of the Champions League away from UEFA is massive. Worth far, far more than perpetually being qualifiers automatically of a competition they would almost never not qualify to anyway..
If they'd launched this with the intention that the top 6 qualify (whoever that top 6 may be) then the big 6 clubs would be in a much stronger position with the fans and winning a lot from UEFA.
NFL model, innit?
Yes but its just not cricket football.
Someone involved in the project should have known the importance of the pyramid.
The NFL regularly has a franchise up sticks from one city and decamp in another. The owners of our 6 have no comprehension of the tribal loyalties that underpin football. Wimbledon getting bought and moved to Milton Keynes should have rung alarm bells. The plucky AFC Wimbledon formed and fought their way up umpteen leagues - and in doing so, became most everyone's favourite second team.
But MK Dons is still a commercial success and richer than AFC Wimbledon...they have more season tickets holders than even when Wimbledon were in the EPL, modern stadium, diversified income from events, hotel, retail....
On the pitch MK Dons might only be in League one, but they are financially much better position. For all the screeching, 10,000 people turn up for homes games at MK Dons in League One.
But football fans STILL wouldn't cross the road to piss on them if they were on fire. Outside the loyalist/nationalist divide in NI, it is hard to think of a group that is better at bearing a grudge than football fans. They are passed on, from father to son.
I'm looking forward to fans being back, and the Six being subjected to the chant of "You greedy fucking bastards" week in, week out.....
I don't see how the Six continue to play in the Premiership - probably on health and safety grounds.
They should have expelled the greedy gits today , that would have put the wind up them.
I suspect the question everyone is looking at is can we / how do we legally - insert idea here....
The obvious way is with visas, but there’s no way a government is going to turn down a billion or two in income tax receipts, and a large pile of VAT from their spending, from a hundred or so footballers.
Ben Rumsby @ben_rumsby Am told Chelsea Pitch Owners is re-examining the Stamford Bridge lease in light of Chelsea joining The Super League. The CPO board will meet to discuss on Thursday.
Bassman93 @UltraBassman93 · 12m They have the power to evict the club from the ground and prevent it being called Chelsea.
So if Chelsea join the ESL, they have to move out of Chelsea, and they can't call themselves Chelsea
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
Topping falls for the smart room paradox. He assumes the movers and shakers of this venture are on top of their shit because they’re rich. They’re probably not, I’ve met loads of complete morons who are billionaires. And often they hire complete morons because they can’t tell them apart. Hiring T May’s PR person is one example.
Good you label people as morons as well as trolls when you don't like their opinion.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
That post actually got me LOLing. Bravo!
So far he's been able to produce an allegation I called the US election for Trump. Big deal. Me and Millions of others. If Rasmussen's poll is right many Americans still think Trump won.
YOu called a whole load of states for Biden that would have cleaned out many punters.
Theer was a whole thread on here on why people should put their shirt on Biden for North Carolina. conveniently forgotten.
But we all make mistakes eh?
Only morons believe Trump won, so sayeth Trump's lawyer.
"Even assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false, no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,"
That is a bizarre sentence in itself, why are they making a point suggesting it is difficult to say if its true or false, whilst simultaneously, in the very same sentence, saying no reasonable person would think they are true?
I think she's arguing she was indulging in obviously performative bullshit, rather than any kind of fact based discussion. Which is a bit awkward, since some of the arguments were advanced in court. ...even though she had made her claims in lawsuits in addition to media appearances...
Perhaps she's calculated that loss of her license to practice law might be less painful than being on the wrong end of a billion dollar settlement ? Who can say.
I've decided to support the Super League now. I can't bear to be on the same side of the argument as that fat talentless Hollywood oaf James Corden. Thanks a lot James.
Coincidentally a fat, talentless oaf is inspiring similar feelings in me.
Gosh, that's progress - never expected you to describe Blackford in that way.
ESL files injunctions to prevent player and club bans
Do the dolts on here really think that this all wasn't thought through before they launched?
I am sure they have this planned down to the last detail
Though I very much doubt they expected this onslaught against them
Oh I'm pretty sure they "wargamed" this reaction, Big G.
What happens now is down to [a] what their ultimate goal really is and [b] how well both sides' lawyers play their cards and muster their allies.
I would assume the ESL lawyers have been planning their strategy for months (years). Has the PL been preparing its defense as assiduously?
Nah, they clearly had no idea they would get this intense hatred. Did they wargame Marcus Rashford saying No?
They have admitted as much: "they are nervous and disappointed by the way it's been handled", "they don't know how much more of this they can take"
One possibility is that they did all this to pressure UEFA into changing the Champions League and they presumed that UEFA would fold without ever going public. Then UEFA didn't and it either got out and they had to go with it and / or are still playing a high risk game of brinksmanship.
I'm going with conspiracy AND cock-up. They really thought they could get away with this, they got lawyers to check everything, they just didn't expect the intense degree of anger and loathing, from all sides, which is only building. And I doubt they expected a Tory government to interfere
Any senior person in an organisation that doesnt think Boris Johnson wouldnt fish for votes in any pool he feels he has to, has no business been allowed out without a carer.
The thing I don't understand with ESL is why they went with the Closed Shop. That is what has screwed the PR entirely.
The potential gain of grasping control of the Champions League away from UEFA is massive. Worth far, far more than perpetually being qualifiers automatically of a competition they would almost never not qualify to anyway..
If they'd launched this with the intention that the top 6 qualify (whoever that top 6 may be) then the big 6 clubs would be in a much stronger position with the fans and winning a lot from UEFA.
NFL model, innit?
Yes but its just not cricket football.
Someone involved in the project should have known the importance of the pyramid.
The NFL regularly has a franchise up sticks from one city and decamp in another. The owners of our 6 have no comprehension of the tribal loyalties that underpin football. Wimbledon getting bought and moved to Milton Keynes should have rung alarm bells. The plucky AFC Wimbledon formed and fought their way up umpteen leagues - and in doing so, became most everyone's favourite second team.
But MK Dons is still a commercial success and richer than AFC Wimbledon...they have more season tickets holders than even when Wimbledon were in the EPL, modern stadium, diversified income from events, hotel, retail....
On the pitch MK Dons might only be in League one, but they are financially much better position. For all the screeching, 10,000 people turn up for homes games at MK Dons in League One.
But football fans STILL wouldn't cross the road to piss on them if they were on fire. Outside the loyalist/nationalist divide in NI, it is hard to think of a group that is better at bearing a grudge than football fans. They are passed on, from father to son.
I'm looking forward to fans being back, and the Six being subjected to the chant of "You greedy fucking bastards" week in, week out.....
I don't see how the Six continue to play in the Premiership - probably on health and safety grounds.
They should have expelled the greedy gits today , that would have put the wind up them.
I suspect the question everyone is looking at is can we / how do we legally - insert idea here....
The obvious way is with visas, but there’s no way a government is going to turn down a billion or two in income tax receipts, and a large pile of VAT from their spending, from a hundred or so footballers.
But the government makes shedloads from the EPL which will disappear with the birth of the ESL.
EPL Inc is worth far more to UK PLC than a multinational tourney played all over Europe
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
That post actually got me LOLing. Bravo!
So far he's been able to produce an allegation I called the US election for Trump. Big deal. Me and Millions of others. If Rasmussen's poll is right many Americans still think Trump won.
YOu called a whole load of states for Biden that would have cleaned out many punters.
Theer was a whole thread on here on why people should put their shirt on Biden for North Carolina. conveniently forgotten.
But we all make mistakes eh?
Only morons believe Trump won, so sayeth Trump's lawyer.
"Even assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false, no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,"
That is a bizarre sentence in itself, why are they making a point suggesting it is difficult to say if its true or false, whilst simultaneously, in the very same sentence, saying no reasonable person would think they are true?
I think she's arguing she was indulging in obviously performative bullshit, rather than any kind of fact based discussion. Which is a bit awkward, since some of the arguments were advanced in court. ...even though she had made her claims in lawsuits in addition to media appearances...
Perhaps she's calculated that loss of her license to practice law might be less painful than being on the wrong end of a billion dollar settlement ? Who can say.
Absolutely I understand that, but how can you combine:
"no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact"
and
"assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false"
unless you are stating the judge is an unreasonable person and therefore may conclude them statements of fact? Surely you have to concede them to be false when you say no reasonable person will find them true?
Footy Accumulators @FootyAccums Liverpool have grown "increasingly doubtful" in the last 24 hours about the Super League. The 'Big 6' clubs didn't expect the anger from the fans to be so extreme.
ESL files injunctions to prevent player and club bans
Do the dolts on here really think that this all wasn't thought through before they launched?
I am sure they have this planned down to the last detail
Though I very much doubt they expected this onslaught against them
Oh I'm pretty sure they "wargamed" this reaction, Big G.
What happens now is down to [a] what their ultimate goal really is and [b] how well both sides' lawyers play their cards and muster their allies.
I would assume the ESL lawyers have been planning their strategy for months (years). Has the PL been preparing its defense as assiduously?
Nah, they clearly had no idea they would get this intense hatred. Did they wargame Marcus Rashford saying No?
They have admitted as much: "they are nervous and disappointed by the way it's been handled", "they don't know how much more of this they can take"
One possibility is that they did all this to pressure UEFA into changing the Champions League and they presumed that UEFA would fold without ever going public. Then UEFA didn't and it either got out and they had to go with it and / or are still playing a high risk game of brinksmanship.
I'm going with conspiracy AND cock-up. They really thought they could get away with this, they got lawyers to check everything, they just didn't expect the intense degree of anger and loathing, from all sides, which is only building. And I doubt they expected a Tory government to interfere
Any senior person in an organisation that doesnt think Boris Johnson wouldnt fish for votes in any pool he feels he has to, has no business been allowed out without a carer.
The one that surprises me is Ivan Gazidis at AC Milan, who I read earlier has been one of the key movers and shakers of the scheme going back 4 years. He was brought up in Manchester, was a Cambridge blue at football and was CEO of Arsenal for a decade. He really should have a good cultural understanding of how this was likely to be seen in England and how the backlash would be insurmountable. Which makes me wonder what his game is.
Ben Rumsby @ben_rumsby Am told Chelsea Pitch Owners is re-examining the Stamford Bridge lease in light of Chelsea joining The Super League. The CPO board will meet to discuss on Thursday.
Bassman93 @UltraBassman93 · 12m They have the power to evict the club from the ground and prevent it being called Chelsea.
So if Chelsea join the ESL, they have to move out of Chelsea, and they can't call themselves Chelsea
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
Were they expecting the UK govt to offer immediate legislation? I doubt that very much.
I doubt they wargamed it, thought about reactions, when the legal element is critical, and then thought no they couldn't possibly do that.
But we shall see.
As the experts on PM last night agreed, as it stands the govt can't really do anything. The principle behind it is to expand choice for the consumer and the arguments against are indicative of a kind of cartel so the laws as they stand are on the side of the ESL.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
That post actually got me LOLing. Bravo!
So far he's been able to produce an allegation I called the US election for Trump. Big deal. Me and Millions of others. If Rasmussen's poll is right many Americans still think Trump won.
YOu called a whole load of states for Biden that would have cleaned out many punters.
Theer was a whole thread on here on why people should put their shirt on Biden for North Carolina. conveniently forgotten.
But we all make mistakes eh?
Only morons believe Trump won, so sayeth Trump's lawyer.
"Even assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false, no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,"
That is a bizarre sentence in itself, why are they making a point suggesting it is difficult to say if its true or false, whilst simultaneously, in the very same sentence, saying no reasonable person would think they are true?
I think she's arguing she was indulging in obviously performative bullshit, rather than any kind of fact based discussion. Which is a bit awkward, since some of the arguments were advanced in court. ...even though she had made her claims in lawsuits in addition to media appearances...
Perhaps she's calculated that loss of her license to practice law might be less painful than being on the wrong end of a billion dollar settlement ? Who can say.
Absolutely I understand that, but how can you combine:
"no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact"
and
"assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false"
unless you are stating the judge is an unreasonable person and therefore may conclude them statements of fact? Surely you have to concede them to be false when you say no reasonable person will find them true?
Lawyers often present alternate defences in court, which don't have to be consistent with each other. (ie - "if you rule against us on this, here's another way of looking at it.")
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
Were they expecting the UK govt to offer immediate legislation? I doubt that very much.
I doubt they wargamed it, thought about reactions, when the legal element is critical, and then thought no they couldn't possibly do that.
But we shall see.
As the experts on PM last night agreed, as it stands the govt can't really do anything. The principle behind it is to expand choice for the consumer and the arguments against are indicative of a kind of cartel so the laws as they stand are on the side of the ESL.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
I don't think they missed it I think they thought having 6 members involved ensures something else could be invoked....
However it wouldn't be the first time lawyers missed the obvious.
I couldn't see a sanction available to the EPL for this other than expulsion - which requires 15 clubs to vote for!
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
Were they expecting the UK govt to offer immediate legislation? I doubt that very much.
I doubt they wargamed it, thought about reactions, when the legal element is critical, and then thought no they couldn't possibly do that.
But we shall see.
As the experts on PM last night agreed, as it stands the govt can't really do anything. The principle behind it is to expand choice for the consumer and the arguments against are indicative of a kind of cartel so the laws as they stand are on the side of the ESL.
Yet the founders of the ESL wish to move from an world in which they could be replaced into a cartel where they would be for ever...
ESL files injunctions to prevent player and club bans
Do the dolts on here really think that this all wasn't thought through before they launched?
I am sure they have this planned down to the last detail
Though I very much doubt they expected this onslaught against them
Oh I'm pretty sure they "wargamed" this reaction, Big G.
What happens now is down to [a] what their ultimate goal really is and [b] how well both sides' lawyers play their cards and muster their allies.
I would assume the ESL lawyers have been planning their strategy for months (years). Has the PL been preparing its defense as assiduously?
Nah, they clearly had no idea they would get this intense hatred. Did they wargame Marcus Rashford saying No?
They have admitted as much: "they are nervous and disappointed by the way it's been handled", "they don't know how much more of this they can take"
One possibility is that they did all this to pressure UEFA into changing the Champions League and they presumed that UEFA would fold without ever going public. Then UEFA didn't and it either got out and they had to go with it and / or are still playing a high risk game of brinksmanship.
I'm going with conspiracy AND cock-up. They really thought they could get away with this, they got lawyers to check everything, they just didn't expect the intense degree of anger and loathing, from all sides, which is only building. And I doubt they expected a Tory government to interfere
Any senior person in an organisation that doesnt think Boris Johnson wouldnt fish for votes in any pool he feels he has to, has no business been allowed out without a carer.
The one that surprises me is Ivan Gazidis at AC Milan, who I read earlier has been one of the key movers and shakers of the scheme going back 4 years. He was brought up in Manchester, was a Cambridge blue at football and was CEO of Arsenal for a decade. He really should have a good cultural understanding of how this was likely to be seen in England and how the backlash would be insurmountable. Which makes me wonder what his game is.
Yes, that's strange. Unless they really are that desperate, and facing bankruptcy, so they felt they had no choice?
And then idiot Yankee owners in England went along with it, because they really DON'T understand these emotions
It seems likely to me now that the English clubs, at least, will back out. But how do they undo the damage? How can you say Sorry? A simple "my bad, oops" probably isn't sufficient
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
There's a rumour that PL have created an estoppel by convention by not insisting on that rule being honoured when the clubs entered tournaments like the International Champions Cup and the Audi Cup.
Edit - Oh and the World Club Cup.
During the season seems key here. In the off season they are allowed to enter such competitions without this restriction.
The Club World Cup and the European Super Cup usually take place during the season.
I think some elements of the ICC took place during the season.
It's going to be a mess.
But isn't the "without prior permission " key here?
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
I don't think they missed it I think they thought having 6 members involved ensures something else could be invoked....
However it wouldn't be the first time lawyers missed the obvious.
I couldn't see a sanction available to the EPL for this other than expulsion - which requires 15 clubs to vote for!
They go to court and have the 6 declared in breach of contract. That would not require the expulsion as the clubs would be deemed to have excluded themselves.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
I don't think they missed it I think they thought having 6 members involved ensures something else could be invoked....
However it wouldn't be the first time lawyers missed the obvious.
I couldn't see a sanction available to the EPL for this other than expulsion - which requires 15 clubs to vote for!
Injunction and/or damages for breach of contract, perhaps?
I assume the Premier League rules are akin to a Shareholder's Agreement?
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
Football fans I think tend to overestimate how many avid football fans there are purely because they are noisy on this subject.
Quote During a December 2019 survey conducted by Capgemini, 15 percent of respondents from the United Kingdom stated that they were avid sports fans.
Couldn't find one specifically on football but I think we can assume the vast bulk of that 15% are football fans
It's an interesting one. I'm really disengaged from football and couldn't really care less, but it's noticeable how much noise this story has generated. That's either because most people are really into football (which makes me a freakish minority), or the minority who are actually really into football are very noisy and/or influential.
It is something that seems to have an outsize cultural and political influence therefore not something to be messed with lightly. Politicians in particular are always banging on about their football allegiances.
It's also something to report on that isn't Covid, a story that is moving quickly and that a lot of people have an opinion on.
Anyone really believe that Boris Johnson is genuinely interested in football? The desire by politicians (and some royals) to burnish their "man of the people" credentials by claiming an interest in football (or "footy" as no doubt Bozo calls it) is vomit inducing in the extreme.
Whilst we are on politics and football......about 24 months and £100m of client losses too late, the govt is now going to have a look at how Football Index worked.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
Were they expecting the UK govt to offer immediate legislation? I doubt that very much.
I doubt they wargamed it, thought about reactions, when the legal element is critical, and then thought no they couldn't possibly do that.
But we shall see.
As the experts on PM last night agreed, as it stands the govt can't really do anything. The principle behind it is to expand choice for the consumer and the arguments against are indicative of a kind of cartel so the laws as they stand are on the side of the ESL.
They could refuse work permits to anyone from overseas playing for those teams. At the same time the FA could ban any player from those teams from competing in any other competition or playing for England.
Whatever happens, I'm fairly sure the "big 6" have ensured that the next lot of TV rights will come at a serious discount. Why would any broadcaster pay big money when there's a significant risk that teams will upsticks and leave?
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
Football fans I think tend to overestimate how many avid football fans there are purely because they are noisy on this subject.
Quote During a December 2019 survey conducted by Capgemini, 15 percent of respondents from the United Kingdom stated that they were avid sports fans.
Couldn't find one specifically on football but I think we can assume the vast bulk of that 15% are football fans
It's an interesting one. I'm really disengaged from football and couldn't really care less, but it's noticeable how much noise this story has generated. That's either because most people are really into football (which makes me a freakish minority), or the minority who are actually really into football are very noisy and/or influential.
It is something that seems to have an outsize cultural and political influence therefore not something to be messed with lightly. Politicians in particular are always banging on about their football allegiances.
It's also something to report on that isn't Covid, a story that is moving quickly and that a lot of people have an opinion on.
Anyone really believe that Boris Johnson is genuinely interested in football? The desire by politicians (and some royals) to burnish their "man of the people" credentials by claiming an interest in football (or "footy" as no doubt Bozo calls it) is vomit inducing in the extreme.
Nope - but it's a news story where he can't really screw up and look bad....
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
There's a rumour that PL have created an estoppel by convention by not insisting on that rule being honoured when the clubs entered tournaments like the International Champions Cup and the Audi Cup.
Edit - Oh and the World Club Cup.
During the season seems key here. In the off season they are allowed to enter such competitions without this restriction.
The Club World Cup and the European Super Cup usually take place during the season.
I think some elements of the ICC took place during the season.
It's going to be a mess.
The Club World Cup and European Super Cup pre existed the PL if that makes a difference.
The ICC is a pre season tournament, if any matches have been played during the season it wont have been first team.
Not quite.
The Club World Cup started in 2000 after the start of the PL.
Footy Accumulators @FootyAccums Liverpool have grown "increasingly doubtful" in the last 24 hours about the Super League. The 'Big 6' clubs didn't expect the anger from the fans to be so extreme.
[Bild]
This is hilarious
It has been a relief to focus and argue about things that dont matter, other than emotionally.
I dont believe they did not expect anger though, but it might be pretext to stand down 'so long as our concerns can be addressed'.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
That post actually got me LOLing. Bravo!
So far he's been able to produce an allegation I called the US election for Trump. Big deal. Me and Millions of others. If Rasmussen's poll is right many Americans still think Trump won.
YOu called a whole load of states for Biden that would have cleaned out many punters.
Theer was a whole thread on here on why people should put their shirt on Biden for North Carolina. conveniently forgotten.
But we all make mistakes eh?
Only morons believe Trump won, so sayeth Trump's lawyer.
"Even assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false, no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,"
That is a bizarre sentence in itself, why are they making a point suggesting it is difficult to say if its true or false, whilst simultaneously, in the very same sentence, saying no reasonable person would think they are true?
I think she's arguing she was indulging in obviously performative bullshit, rather than any kind of fact based discussion. Which is a bit awkward, since some of the arguments were advanced in court. ...even though she had made her claims in lawsuits in addition to media appearances...
Perhaps she's calculated that loss of her license to practice law might be less painful than being on the wrong end of a billion dollar settlement ? Who can say.
Absolutely I understand that, but how can you combine:
"no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact"
and
"assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false"
unless you are stating the judge is an unreasonable person and therefore may conclude them statements of fact? Surely you have to concede them to be false when you say no reasonable person will find them true?
Lawyers often present alternate defences in court, which don't have to be consistent with each other. (ie - "if you rule against us on this, here's another way of looking at it.")
That is surprising, multiple defences is fine, but I fail to see how multiple inconsistent defences can aid justice.
Topping falls for the smart room paradox. He assumes the movers and shakers of this venture are on top of their shit because they’re rich. They’re probably not, I’ve met loads of complete morons who are billionaires. And often they hire complete morons because they can’t tell them apart. Hiring T May’s PR person is one example.
I mean I know it's rhetoric but have you met "loads of complete morons who are billionaires"? To have met loads of complete morons is understandable (would love to know what they thought of you), to have met loads of billionaires is a lot less believable, but to have met loads of complete morons who are also billionaires?
And as for your general point, we shall see. As @ridaligo noted above, the ESL team has been preparing this for quite some time and I would be surprised if they were blind-sided by any particular move now being discussed.
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
Football fans I think tend to overestimate how many avid football fans there are purely because they are noisy on this subject.
Quote During a December 2019 survey conducted by Capgemini, 15 percent of respondents from the United Kingdom stated that they were avid sports fans.
Couldn't find one specifically on football but I think we can assume the vast bulk of that 15% are football fans
It's an interesting one. I'm really disengaged from football and couldn't really care less, but it's noticeable how much noise this story has generated. That's either because most people are really into football (which makes me a freakish minority), or the minority who are actually really into football are very noisy and/or influential.
It is something that seems to have an outsize cultural and political influence therefore not something to be messed with lightly. Politicians in particular are always banging on about their football allegiances.
It's also something to report on that isn't Covid, a story that is moving quickly and that a lot of people have an opinion on.
Anyone really believe that Boris Johnson is genuinely interested in football? The desire by politicians (and some royals) to burnish their "man of the people" credentials by claiming an interest in football (or "footy" as no doubt Bozo calls it) is vomit inducing in the extreme.
Surely a politician can take an interest in something on behalf of voters that he isn't personally interested in? FWIW, my preferred approach is that politicians do nothing, though I recognise that I am probably in a minority. But we can't have a situation where politicians only intervene in things that they are personally interested in. That would be daft.
ESL files injunctions to prevent player and club bans
Do the dolts on here really think that this all wasn't thought through before they launched?
I am sure they have this planned down to the last detail
Though I very much doubt they expected this onslaught against them
Oh I'm pretty sure they "wargamed" this reaction, Big G.
What happens now is down to [a] what their ultimate goal really is and [b] how well both sides' lawyers play their cards and muster their allies.
I would assume the ESL lawyers have been planning their strategy for months (years). Has the PL been preparing its defense as assiduously?
Nah, they clearly had no idea they would get this intense hatred. Did they wargame Marcus Rashford saying No?
They have admitted as much: "they are nervous and disappointed by the way it's been handled", "they don't know how much more of this they can take"
I disagree. They would know exactly where the howls of protest would come from. A few platitudes about how surprised they are about the strength of feeling is neither here nor there. What they will be nervous about is what retaliatory action might be taken. So far all we have is thinking out loud about what could be done ... let's see what action is actually taken.
Footy Accumulators @FootyAccums Liverpool have grown "increasingly doubtful" in the last 24 hours about the Super League. The 'Big 6' clubs didn't expect the anger from the fans to be so extreme.
[Bild]
This is hilarious
The money side of this is interesting. JP Morgan would only get a credit approval, to lend against a fairly detailed draft contract with a media group. Probably an investment grade one. £4bn feels like too much of a stretch for them to punt, without knowing whether the scheme would pull in the punters hoped for at the prices required. That would be like taking equity risk on a new venture. Maybe they’d do that but feels punchy to me.
It’s not Sky. Len Blavatnik says it’s not his group. Amazon say it’s not them. Which surely only really leaves two viable options. Its Disney. Or Perez is telling porkies and they’re a long way off this being an irrevocable “contracts signed” done deal.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
That post actually got me LOLing. Bravo!
So far he's been able to produce an allegation I called the US election for Trump. Big deal. Me and Millions of others. If Rasmussen's poll is right many Americans still think Trump won.
YOu called a whole load of states for Biden that would have cleaned out many punters.
Theer was a whole thread on here on why people should put their shirt on Biden for North Carolina. conveniently forgotten.
But we all make mistakes eh?
Only morons believe Trump won, so sayeth Trump's lawyer.
"Even assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false, no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,"
That is a bizarre sentence in itself, why are they making a point suggesting it is difficult to say if its true or false, whilst simultaneously, in the very same sentence, saying no reasonable person would think they are true?
I think she's arguing she was indulging in obviously performative bullshit, rather than any kind of fact based discussion. Which is a bit awkward, since some of the arguments were advanced in court. ...even though she had made her claims in lawsuits in addition to media appearances...
Perhaps she's calculated that loss of her license to practice law might be less painful than being on the wrong end of a billion dollar settlement ? Who can say.
Absolutely I understand that, but how can you combine:
"no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact"
and
"assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false"
unless you are stating the judge is an unreasonable person and therefore may conclude them statements of fact? Surely you have to concede them to be false when you say no reasonable person will find them true?
Lawyers often present alternate defences in court, which don't have to be consistent with each other. (ie - "if you rule against us on this, here's another way of looking at it.")
That is surprising, multiple defences is fine, but I fail to see how multiple inconsistent defences can aid justice.
It is often arguments on different aspects of a claim.
So "we argue we are totally devoid any blame" however "in the alternative we argue that even if we are to blame a bit, the other party was also to blame, so damages should be reduced".
Richard Dawkins has been cancelled by the American Humanist Association for not having the correct views on gender and race.
"@americnhumanist Today the American Humanist Association Board voted to withdraw, effective immediately, the 1996 Humanist of the Year award it bestowed on Richard Dawkins."
The offence was calling Transgender Identity and apparently Black identity into question:
Regrettably, Richard Dawkins has over the past several years accumulated a history of making statements that use the guise of scientific discourse to demean marginalized groups, an approach antithetical to humanist values. His latest statement implies that the identities of transgender individuals are fraudulent, while also simultaneously attacking Black identity as one that can be assumed when convenient. His subsequent attempts at clarification are inadequate and convey neither sensitivity nor sincerity.
In 2015, Rachel Dolezal, a white chapter president of NAACP, was vilified for identifying as Black. Some men choose to identify as women, and some women choose to identify as men. You will be vilified if you deny that they literally are what they identify as.
Footy Accumulators @FootyAccums Liverpool have grown "increasingly doubtful" in the last 24 hours about the Super League. The 'Big 6' clubs didn't expect the anger from the fans to be so extreme.
[Bild]
This is hilarious
As I said down thread, they don't need a Sky or Amazon...they can Netflix-ify it via Bamtech. In fact it is in their financial interest to do so.
Regardless of this ESL, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see such a move in the next but one renewal rounds of tv contracts. The tech is all there, and they would get to make more dosh, and perhaps even charge the fan less (at least initially to hook them in).
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
So how did they miss rule L9
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League; L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League; L.9.3. the F.A. Cup; L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield; L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
I don't think they missed it I think they thought having 6 members involved ensures something else could be invoked....
However it wouldn't be the first time lawyers missed the obvious.
I couldn't see a sanction available to the EPL for this other than expulsion - which requires 15 clubs to vote for!
NOW the inclusion of Spurs makes sense.
It makes it interesting though - if any one of the horrible half dozen were to break ranks, suddenly the EPL is much more powerful. And a large club has suddenly eliminated its biggest rivals.
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
Football fans I think tend to overestimate how many avid football fans there are purely because they are noisy on this subject.
Quote During a December 2019 survey conducted by Capgemini, 15 percent of respondents from the United Kingdom stated that they were avid sports fans.
Couldn't find one specifically on football but I think we can assume the vast bulk of that 15% are football fans
It's an interesting one. I'm really disengaged from football and couldn't really care less, but it's noticeable how much noise this story has generated. That's either because most people are really into football (which makes me a freakish minority), or the minority who are actually really into football are very noisy and/or influential.
It is something that seems to have an outsize cultural and political influence therefore not something to be messed with lightly. Politicians in particular are always banging on about their football allegiances.
Its partly about noise from minority, but its essentially a viral story - no-one likes greedy owners or blatant unfairness, and so even casual fans, which outnumber intense ones, see it and cause it to spread.
Footy Accumulators @FootyAccums Liverpool have grown "increasingly doubtful" in the last 24 hours about the Super League. The 'Big 6' clubs didn't expect the anger from the fans to be so extreme.
[Bild]
This is hilarious
As I said down thread, they don't need a Sky or Amazon...they can Netflix it via Bamtech.
They also need to:-
1) get their app on TV and other devices 2) and sell it.
They don't just need Big Mouse's tech they also need it's marketing and sales power at which point Big Mouse is going to say happy to do so - thanks for launching ESPN worldwide.
Richard Dawkins has been cancelled by the American Humanist Association for not having the correct views on gender and race.
"@americnhumanist Today the American Humanist Association Board voted to withdraw, effective immediately, the 1996 Humanist of the Year award it bestowed on Richard Dawkins."
The offence was calling Transgender Identity and apparently Black identity into question:
Regrettably, Richard Dawkins has over the past several years accumulated a history of making statements that use the guise of scientific discourse to demean marginalized groups, an approach antithetical to humanist values. His latest statement implies that the identities of transgender individuals are fraudulent, while also simultaneously attacking Black identity as one that can be assumed when convenient. His subsequent attempts at clarification are inadequate and convey neither sensitivity nor sincerity.
In 2015, Rachel Dolezal, a white chapter president of NAACP, was vilified for identifying as Black. Some men choose to identify as women, and some women choose to identify as men. You will be vilified if you deny that they literally are what they identify as.
I do not intend to disparage trans people. I see that my academic “Discuss” question has been misconstrued as such and I deplore this. It was also not my intent to ally in any way with Republican bigots in US now exploiting this issue . https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1381665011127451652
You cant upset the trans and their self identifying gibberish. A collection of organisations he will be involved in will have told him to apologise or he is not welcome back. The good Dawkins never apologises and is one of the few left who is as scathing of islam as he is of Christianity. Who would have thought it would be this that was the blaspheme too far?
His problem is his consistency - he's an evidence-based individual with a nose for bullshit and calls it out (not always diplomatically) wherever he finds it. He's correctly detected that Wokeism is simply yet another religion - albeit a secular one.
Personally? I'm rooting for him. I'm tired of being told I have to believe in things that simply aren't true, and I think many other people are as well.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
If the ESL plans fall apart, you have to wonder what, if any fall out there will be, other than the clubs looking mighty stupid and greedy.
Because there's no way that the ESL lawyers haven't gone through the EPL/UEFA rulebook with a fine-toothed comb.
Were they expecting the UK govt to offer immediate legislation? I doubt that very much.
I doubt they wargamed it, thought about reactions, when the legal element is critical, and then thought no they couldn't possibly do that.
But we shall see.
As the experts on PM last night agreed, as it stands the govt can't really do anything. The principle behind it is to expand choice for the consumer and the arguments against are indicative of a kind of cartel so the laws as they stand are on the side of the ESL.
But HMG can change the law, if necessary.
Yes absolutely. We shall see what they feel they need to do but my guess is that they would have to make this only about the EPL because otherwise the unintended consequences could be...interesting.
And would this populist, 80-seat majority government really legislate about a new football competition? Well we shall see.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
Dead wrong about Trump? Me and millions of other punters. that the best you got treacle? How many more were wrong about remain in 2016? FFS.
The reason my posting riles you is like all the other fake tories on here, and out there, you fear being undermined from the right, you fear being called out on the wholesale departure of the Johnson government from any form of conservatism whatsoever.
Well suck it up bucko, because I intend to keep sticking it to you and all the other pant wetting pinko tories going. Particularly you. I live to stick it to you.
So buy in the nappies matey.
Lol. I very much look forward to Reform sticking it to us in May, assuming of course that that prediction doesn't work out like all your others.
It's come to something when you, BluestBlue, are seriously outflanked on the right, and I'm actually agreeing with you. Great entertainment, though I don't really think you are a 'pinko tory'. Kudos.
Comments
Omar Salem
@OmarSalem
If you oppose the Super League do you also oppose permanent seats at the UN Security Council?
Anything Reform do in terms of material advances or setbacks is in your imagination. I have no idea how they will do.
"Except with the prior written approval of the Board, during the Season a Club shall not enter or play its senior men’s first team in any competition other than:
L.9.1. the UEFA Champions League;
L.9.2. the UEFA Europa League;
L.9.3. the F.A. Cup;
L.9.4. the F.A. Community Shield;
L.9.5. the Football League Cup; or
L.9.6. competitions sanctioned by the County Association of which it is a member."
The 6 are clearly in breach of this rule.
Is a tournament only entered at kick off at its first match?
However it wouldn't be the first time lawyers missed the obvious.
That post actually got me LOLing. Bravo!
Edit - Oh and the World Club Cup.
What happens now is down to [a] what their ultimate goal really is and [b] how well both sides' lawyers play their cards and muster their allies.
I would assume the ESL lawyers have been planning their strategy for months (years). Has the PL been preparing its defense as assiduously?
PS: the way some folk are talking on PB, it's not an irrelevant comment.
Truth is we won't know until it goes to court but a court cases costs £300,000+ and it's cheaper to just pay the person off.
YOu called a whole load of states for Biden that would have cleaned out many punters.
Theer was a whole thread on here on why people should put their shirt on Biden for North Carolina. conveniently forgotten.
But we all make mistakes eh?
If we do get a new gambling act prepare for it to be far more restrictive and controlling than we have been used to, maximum loss limits of £50/£100 per month without opt outs and people only allowed to bet with one bookmaker are being seriously discussed and promoted. For those who do this seriously such restrictions would obviously be close of play.
Make your mind up - you can't have it both ways.
"Even assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false, no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact,"
https://www.businessinsider.com/sidney-powell-dominion-defamation-lawsuit-take-seriously-2021-3?r=US&IR=T
https://twitter.com/RollingStone/status/1384492900285915136?s=20
Rasmussen's latest poll, however, has those who think the election was interfered with significantly on 51%. Big swing among independents.
So America must have a lot of morons.
But then that's always been your view, right?
I called states for TRUMP that would have cleaned out many punters, including myself. I also called the election for TRUMP.
Unlike you and @MrEd, both of whom keep repeating this utter fiction, I admitted to my gross error at the time, repeatedly, publicly on here. Biden won, and won decisively.
AGAIN: I WAS WRONG
Meantime, you take solace in a 'Rasmussen poll' that says a bunch of incels in the States still think Trump won the election. Add those to the fake-moon landings tin-hat wearers and the folks who think Elvis works behind the bar at their local crazy golf club.
FFS.
They have admitted as much: "they are nervous and disappointed by the way it's been handled", "they don't know how much more of this they can take"
Me and Millions of others. If Rasmussen's poll is right many Americans still think Trump won.
It is something that seems to have an outsize cultural and political influence therefore not something to be messed with lightly. Politicians in particular are always banging on about their football allegiances.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/20/trump-georgia-gop-election-fraud-483193
...The once dominant Georgia GOP might be in meltdown in the suburbs, but the rank and file remains obsessed with Trump and the perceived wrongs of the last election.
As party activists vented at their county convention, the chair of the Cobb County Young Republicans, DeAnna Harris, stewed in the parking lot of her local party office.
“Huge mistake,” she said of the hostilities directed at Kemp and the reliving of 2020. “We’ve got to get out of this mindset. It’s almost like insanity.”...
I think some elements of the ICC took place during the season.
It's going to be a mess.
Good you label people as morons as well as trolls when you don't like their opinion.
I'm sure that Estoppel featured in a film once. Was it The Taking of Pelham 123?
The ICC is a pre season tournament, if any matches have been played during the season it wont have been first team.
Ben Rumsby
@ben_rumsby
Am told Chelsea Pitch Owners is re-examining the Stamford Bridge lease in light of Chelsea joining The Super League. The CPO board will meet to discuss on Thursday.
Bassman93
@UltraBassman93
·
12m
They have the power to evict the club from the ground and prevent it being called Chelsea.
So if Chelsea join the ESL, they have to move out of Chelsea, and they can't call themselves Chelsea
They didn't wargame THAT
Which is a bit awkward, since some of the arguments were advanced in court.
...even though she had made her claims in lawsuits in addition to media appearances...
Perhaps she's calculated that loss of her license to practice law might be less painful than being on the wrong end of a billion dollar settlement ? Who can say.
EPL Inc is worth far more to UK PLC than a multinational tourney played all over Europe
"no reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact"
and
"assuming, arguendo, that each of the statements alleged in the Complaint could be proved true or false"
unless you are stating the judge is an unreasonable person and therefore may conclude them statements of fact? Surely you have to concede them to be false when you say no reasonable person will find them true?
https://twitter.com/primevideosport/status/1384507214530973696?s=20
And:
Footy Accumulators
@FootyAccums
Liverpool have grown "increasingly doubtful" in the last 24 hours about the Super League. The 'Big 6' clubs didn't expect the anger from the fans to be so extreme.
[Bild]
This is hilarious
But we shall see.
As the experts on PM last night agreed, as it stands the govt can't really do anything. The principle behind it is to expand choice for the consumer and the arguments against are indicative of a kind of cartel so the laws as they stand are on the side of the ESL.
(ie - "if you rule against us on this, here's another way of looking at it.")
And then idiot Yankee owners in England went along with it, because they really DON'T understand these emotions
It seems likely to me now that the English clubs, at least, will back out. But how do they undo the damage? How can you say Sorry? A simple "my bad, oops" probably isn't sufficient
I assume the Premier League rules are akin to a Shareholder's Agreement?
Nice one guys.
So it's perfect for him.
The Club World Cup started in 2000 after the start of the PL.
You’re thinking of The Intercontinental Cup.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercontinental_Cup_(football)
I dont believe they did not expect anger though, but it might be pretext to stand down 'so long as our concerns can be addressed'.
And as for your general point, we shall see. As @ridaligo noted above, the ESL team has been preparing this for quite some time and I would be surprised if they were blind-sided by any particular move now being discussed.
FWIW, my preferred approach is that politicians do nothing, though I recognise that I am probably in a minority. But we can't have a situation where politicians only intervene in things that they are personally interested in. That would be daft.
It’s not Sky. Len Blavatnik says it’s not his group. Amazon say it’s not them. Which surely only really leaves two viable options. Its Disney. Or Perez is telling porkies and they’re a long way off this being an irrevocable “contracts signed” done deal.
So "we argue we are totally devoid any blame" however "in the alternative we argue that even if we are to blame a bit, the other party was also to blame, so damages should be reduced".
Regardless of this ESL, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see such a move in the next but one renewal rounds of tv contracts. The tech is all there, and they would get to make more dosh, and perhaps even charge the fan less (at least initially to hook them in).
It makes it interesting though - if any one of the horrible half dozen were to break ranks, suddenly the EPL is much more powerful. And a large club has suddenly eliminated its biggest rivals.
NEW THREAD
1) get their app on TV and other devices
2) and sell it.
They don't just need Big Mouse's tech they also need it's marketing and sales power at which point Big Mouse is going to say happy to do so - thanks for launching ESPN worldwide.
Personally? I'm rooting for him. I'm tired of being told I have to believe in things that simply aren't true, and I think many other people are as well.
And would this populist, 80-seat majority government really legislate about a new football competition? Well we shall see.