I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
The question wasn't what do you want to do but what could the Government do.
And as demonstrated above there are things the Government could easily do that combined with existing rules have a significant impact.
and is it in their manifesto ? Is it a stars wars fight between obvious good and evil ? Really if this government does anything on this it really needs finishing off .
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
You merely need to ensure the criteria includes - plays x% of matches for the national team,
As an ESL player won't be playing matches for their national team they automatically fail to qualify for a work permit.
An awful lot of foreign players do not play for their nations...
Simon Phillips @siphillipssport · 8m Chelsea's players and staff have held a meeting with club chairman Bruce Buck, with fears regarding the breakaway Super League.
Several players in the Blues group are concerned after hearing UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin threaten action on them.
Richard Dawkins has been cancelled by the American Humanist Association for not having the correct views on gender and race.
"@americnhumanist Today the American Humanist Association Board voted to withdraw, effective immediately, the 1996 Humanist of the Year award it bestowed on Richard Dawkins."
FGFootball @fgfootball_ · 2m Red circleBREAKING: Liverpool captain Jordan Henderson has called an emergency meeting of the Premier League captains to discuss a response to the Super League.
Following Boris meeting with football organisations this morning no 10 issued the following statement
The Prime Minister confirmed the government will not stand by while a small handful of owners create a closed shop.
He was clear that no action is off the table and the government is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure these proposals are stopped
Conservatives being against a closed shop, who’d have thought that?
Richard Dawkins has been cancelled by the American Humanist Association for not having the correct views on gender and race.
"@americnhumanist Today the American Humanist Association Board voted to withdraw, effective immediately, the 1996 Humanist of the Year award it bestowed on Richard Dawkins."
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
HMG is obviously hoping that the Horrible Half Dozen back down in the face of threats and hatred (from just about everyone). However they've now gone so far in promising action - Boris in the Sun, Dowden in the Commons - "we will give this a straight red card" - that they cannot do nothing.
The obvious first move is to prevent Superleague teams from importing foreign players. Seems quite legal to me, hard to challenge, the government can set immigration law exactly how it likes - they could reframe the law as only allowing player visas for teams "that make the majority of their money from domestic leagues" etc
That would immediately fuck the Superleague teams. I suppose they could move abroad, but I am 99% sure they would not. The brands would be trashed.
And that's just one idea. The government is not short of clever lawyers, and ultimately has vastly more resources than a few football clubs. There will be other ideas
It will be one hell of a battle. If and when the government does start doing this, I predict half the English teams will fold immediately - Chelsea City maybe the Arse
Question is, if the English clubs don't join, what will ESL do? It is possible it will still happen with Spanish and Italian teams, but then it is much less attractive....
You really believe that would be a good use of government time and money and limited legislative time? To me it sounds fkin crazy given the actual real life problems of the country (debt, unemployment covid-19, education disruption) . In fact it would be enough to boot out so called tories if that is what they think they are in government for
Fucking with our Footy is of greater import to a solid mass of the voters than the great bulk of legislation passed. That esoteric statute may be required in some arcane area of national life, but will only affect a handful of people directly.
Footy affects the national mood. It's not just the cities where the six teams play. If so, would the Govt. really give a toss about Manchester, Liverpool, inner London? There isn't a swathe of seats to be won there. No, this is about the injustice felt across the land.
By voters.
Hence we are still talking about it on Day 3, on a politics betting website.
i think that shows the arrogance and delusion of football frankly - Seemingly though your argument does seem to have brainwashed supposedly conservative politicians somewhat . I despair really
Football is a safe topic of conversation in the office - you take the mickey out of a workmate for supporting a team that lost at the weekend.
And there are surprisingly fewer things you can say that about...
to the majority its a pretty boring and juvenile topic though. For every meeting at work when two people banter about a football match the others silently wish to get on with the meeting or talk about something else. In any case talking about this issue is fine at work or in the pub , I dont think it is at Cabinet though
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
Simon Phillips @siphillipssport · 8m Chelsea's players and staff have held a meeting with club chairman Bruce Buck, with fears regarding the breakaway Super League.
Several players in the Blues group are concerned after hearing UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin threaten action on them.
I agree that Scottish Independence is like Brexit - in the sense they are both perfectly, 100% viable if that is what the voters choose.
It isn't a "myth" that the UK can make up any disruption that Brexit causes with Europe with trade with the rest of the world. Indeed that's already the case now.
While its certainly true that Scottish Independence is like Brexit on steroids, since Brexit is not the bad thing that Nabavi has convinced himself it is, that's not a problem for Scotland.
Yes Scotland is more tightly integrated with the UK today. That is true. Yes, Scottish Independence will cause more disruption than Brexit did, that is also true. But the Scots have not just more to lose but more to gain in controlling their own destiny.
The UK could replace any disruption with the EU either domestically or with the approximately 7.2 billion people around the globe who aren't in the EU. Scotland can replace any disruption with the rest of the UK either domestically, or with the same 7.2 billion, or with the 440 million people of the EU.
Scottish Independence is like Brexit on steroids yes: More risk, but also more opportunities.
Don't be blinded to the opportunities of both.
This is simply wrong. Scotland's trade with England is much larger as a share of its GDP than the UK's trade with the EU-27 - about three times larger, according to some estimates. It is therefore much more challenging for Scotland to replace its loss of trade with England with trade with the rest of the world than it was for the UK since last year (and that is difficult enough). It is likely to be impossible for decades and perhaps ever.
What are the great economic opportunities that Scotland has from controlling its own destiny? I simply don't see them. They will survive, of course, but economically independence is likely to be an exercise in damage mitigation rather than a climb to prosperity. There might be some gain from managing their macroeconomic policy in their own interests, but they would deprive themselves of this by joining the EU.
Which brings us neatly to the currency question. Scotland certainly could not replace even a small fraction of UK trade with EU trade without joining the EU (thereby sacrifcing any RoW gains), and that means joining the Euro. Scotland is part of an optimal currency area with the rest of the UK, but I don't think anyone has ever said it even comes close to being one with the euro area. It would have to meet the economically illiterate convergence criteria, starting from a disastrous fiscal position. Then it would be a deficit country in a system rigged to favour (German) creditors. How did that work out for Greece and Spain?
The SNP usually counter arguments based on undergraduate level economics like the above with vague assertions about Ireland or Denmark. But that simply doesn't make sense, because those countries are much more productive than Scotland, but the SNP's policies (a larger state, more intervention in markets) would actually make Scotland much less productive than now, rather than more, and the SNP has no favourable supply side policies to counterbalance those.
So while the economic arguments may be similar between Brexit and Scexit, the balance of arguments is totally different. Choosing to leave the UK really will be Scotland's heart beating its head.
Utter bollox , Philip is perfectly correct. Scotland despite it's vast natural resources is at bottom of pile of small nations. All are far more prosperous with less resources, we cannot do any worse than we are doing shackled as a colony of England.
The naivete of the "cannot do any worse" sentiment would be amusing if it weren't condemning Scots to a brutal experiment where the outcome may well be "you were very, very wrong, malcy.....".
How much of a hit to the Scottish economy is indy worth?
Mark, does not work being a fearty. Nothing ventured nothing gained. What if it was sunny uplands all the way. If you have no ambition you go nowhere. Nobody ever got anywhere by staying at the bottom, just needs backbone.
Simon Phillips @siphillipssport · 8m Chelsea's players and staff have held a meeting with club chairman Bruce Buck, with fears regarding the breakaway Super League.
Several players in the Blues group are concerned after hearing UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin threaten action on them.
What if they show the players the legal advice which says they can't be banned from Euros / World.Cups.and btw your 100k a week will be 200k a week.
There is that. However, there is another more disturbing angle. Armed robberies at players' houses have become quite common. Players with young families might not want to risk the aggro. Their families have lives too.
I agree that Scottish Independence is like Brexit - in the sense they are both perfectly, 100% viable if that is what the voters choose.
It isn't a "myth" that the UK can make up any disruption that Brexit causes with Europe with trade with the rest of the world. Indeed that's already the case now.
While its certainly true that Scottish Independence is like Brexit on steroids, since Brexit is not the bad thing that Nabavi has convinced himself it is, that's not a problem for Scotland.
Yes Scotland is more tightly integrated with the UK today. That is true. Yes, Scottish Independence will cause more disruption than Brexit did, that is also true. But the Scots have not just more to lose but more to gain in controlling their own destiny.
The UK could replace any disruption with the EU either domestically or with the approximately 7.2 billion people around the globe who aren't in the EU. Scotland can replace any disruption with the rest of the UK either domestically, or with the same 7.2 billion, or with the 440 million people of the EU.
Scottish Independence is like Brexit on steroids yes: More risk, but also more opportunities.
Don't be blinded to the opportunities of both.
This is simply wrong. Scotland's trade with England is much larger as a share of its GDP than the UK's trade with the EU-27 - about three times larger, according to some estimates. It is therefore much more challenging for Scotland to replace its loss of trade with England with trade with the rest of the world than it was for the UK since last year (and that is difficult enough). It is likely to be impossible for decades and perhaps ever.
What are the great economic opportunities that Scotland has from controlling its own destiny? I simply don't see them. They will survive, of course, but economically independence is likely to be an exercise in damage mitigation rather than a climb to prosperity. There might be some gain from managing their macroeconomic policy in their own interests, but they would deprive themselves of this by joining the EU.
Which brings us neatly to the currency question. Scotland certainly could not replace even a small fraction of UK trade with EU trade without joining the EU (thereby sacrifcing any RoW gains), and that means joining the Euro. Scotland is part of an optimal currency area with the rest of the UK, but I don't think anyone has ever said it even comes close to being one with the euro area. It would have to meet the economically illiterate convergence criteria, starting from a disastrous fiscal position. Then it would be a deficit country in a system rigged to favour (German) creditors. How did that work out for Greece and Spain?
The SNP usually counter arguments based on undergraduate level economics like the above with vague assertions about Ireland or Denmark. But that simply doesn't make sense, because those countries are much more productive than Scotland, but the SNP's policies (a larger state, more intervention in markets) would actually make Scotland much less productive than now, rather than more, and the SNP has no favourable supply side policies to counterbalance those.
So while the economic arguments may be similar between Brexit and Scexit, the balance of arguments is totally different. Choosing to leave the UK really will be Scotland's heart beating its head.
Utter bollox , Philip is perfectly correct. Scotland despite it's vast natural resources is at bottom of pile of small nations. All are far more prosperous with less resources, we cannot do any worse than we are doing shackled as a colony of England.
I honestly don't know how you can say such a thing, malcolm.
You must know it's 'its'.
MEA Cupla, it was the red mist Nigel, thank you for correcting me.
The thing I don't understand with ESL is why they went with the Closed Shop. That is what has screwed the PR entirely.
The potential gain of grasping control of the Champions League away from UEFA is massive. Worth far, far more than perpetually being qualifiers automatically of a competition they would almost never not qualify to anyway..
If they'd launched this with the intention that the top 6 qualify (whoever that top 6 may be) then the big 6 clubs would be in a much stronger position with the fans and winning a lot from UEFA.
NFL model, innit?
Yes but its just not cricket football.
Someone involved in the project should have known the importance of the pyramid.
The NFL regularly has a franchise up sticks from one city and decamp in another. The owners of our 6 have no comprehension of the tribal loyalties that underpin football. Wimbledon getting bought and moved to Milton Keynes should have rung alarm bells. The plucky AFC Wimbledon formed and fought their way up umpteen leagues - and in doing so, became most everyone's favourite second team.
But MK Dons is still a commercial success and richer than AFC Wimbledon...they have more season tickets holders than even when Wimbledon were in the EPL, modern stadium, diversified income from events, hotel, retail....
On the pitch MK Dons might only be in League one, but they are financially much better position. For all the screeching, 10,000 people turn up for homes games at MK Dons in League One.
But football fans STILL wouldn't cross the road to piss on them if they were on fire. Outside the loyalist/nationalist divide in NI, it is hard to think of a group that is better at bearing a grudge than football fans. They are passed on, from father to son.
I'm looking forward to fans being back, and the Six being subjected to the chant of "You greedy fucking bastards" week in, week out.....
I don't see how the Six continue to play in the Premiership - probably on health and safety grounds.
They should have expelled the greedy gits today , that would have put the wind up them.
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
Simon Phillips @siphillipssport · 8m Chelsea's players and staff have held a meeting with club chairman Bruce Buck, with fears regarding the breakaway Super League.
Several players in the Blues group are concerned after hearing UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin threaten action on them.
What if they show the players the legal advice which says they can't be banned from Euros / World.Cups.and btw your 100k a week will be 200k a week.
There is that. However, there is another more disturbing angle. Armed robberies at players' houses have become quite common. Players with young families might not want to risk the aggro. Their families have lives too.
In the US, one of the saddest things is armed robberies conducted by outer members of the entourage against their own golden goose.
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
I'm NOT arguing they should.
I'm saying they could, in response to a question as to what could they do.
Just because someone can do something doesn't mean they should.
A truly amazing statement from the guy at Real Madrid
"In an interview with Spanish TV, the Super League and Real Madrid chairman Florentino Perez insisted expulsion from the Champions League would not happen, and even suggested that matches could be shortened from 90 minutes to attract younger viewers."
What, so the ESL is going to own football, and they can change fundamental rules however they like, just because, and without consultation. They are the Founding Fathers....
As players' salary escalation appears to be at the root of the problems which led to this wild scheme, why not try seven a side....
Players are paid a lot because that's how the market works - you can look at the NFL where the wages of the top players make all footballers (except say Messi) look like paupers.
Really? NFL aren't paid as highly as NBA. This article suggests the top NFL player as ninth. Below Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar and some NBA.
NFL pays big bucks for a few key positions, the rest they are paid less than footballers. Its partly because you need 50 players on a team and partly because 300 pound, 6ft 5 lumps are a bit interchangeable.
NBA gets the biggest bucks as only 10-12 players on a team, even less than football that need squads of 25-30 players and each position is rather specialist ie. Find somebody 7ft tall that can actually play basketball is incredibly difficult, I think some crazy stat like 10% of all 7ft and over men in the US have played in the NBA.
Am very surprised to see how much baseball has fallen behind. Although sheer comparative length of career makes up for it.
Didnt baseball kind of shoot its own golden hen when they went on strike some years ago?
Watch Season 4 of Brockmire for a sense of where baseball is going.
Must confess. It is the only US sport I followed. Was yesterday it suddenly occurred that the season must have started...
Yep. And they are allowing some in stadium fans too. Not that many, though.
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
This reminds me of Brexit pre 2010's. Most people didn't care and gave it little thought. It was therefore not considered an important issue. The minority cared immensely. Votes moved because of that strength of feeling.
Simon Phillips @siphillipssport · 8m Chelsea's players and staff have held a meeting with club chairman Bruce Buck, with fears regarding the breakaway Super League.
Several players in the Blues group are concerned after hearing UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin threaten action on them.
What if they show the players the legal advice which says they can't be banned from Euros / World.Cups.and btw your 100k a week will be 200k a week.
There is that. However, there is another more disturbing angle. Armed robberies at players' houses have become quite common. Players with young families might not want to risk the aggro. Their families have lives too.
Look what happened when Stevie G nearly signed for Chelsea. This will be that on steroids.
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
If the govt get involved in flags and statues then its a safe bet they would get involved in "saving" football too. I think they are only right to do so on football and not flags or statues, but strength of feeling will be much higher in football than the others.
Simon Phillips @siphillipssport · 8m Chelsea's players and staff have held a meeting with club chairman Bruce Buck, with fears regarding the breakaway Super League.
Several players in the Blues group are concerned after hearing UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin threaten action on them.
What if they show the players the legal advice which says they can't be banned from Euros / World.Cups.and btw your 100k a week will be 200k a week.
There is that. However, there is another more disturbing angle. Armed robberies at players' houses have become quite common. Players with young families might not want to risk the aggro. Their families have lives too.
Look what happened when Stevie G nearly signed for Chelsea. This will be that on steroids.
If I were Woodward, Levy, or any other major player in the greedy 6 living in the UK I'd be employing some top security right now.
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
This reminds me of Brexit pre 2016. Most people didn't care and gave it little thought. It was therefore not considered an important issue. The minority cared immensely. Votes moved because of that strength of feeling.
If Boris wants to run football he should resign and become head of the FA/FIFA /UEFA -
The thing I don't understand with ESL is why they went with the Closed Shop. That is what has screwed the PR entirely.
The potential gain of grasping control of the Champions League away from UEFA is massive. Worth far, far more than perpetually being qualifiers automatically of a competition they would almost never not qualify to anyway..
If they'd launched this with the intention that the top 6 qualify (whoever that top 6 may be) then the big 6 clubs would be in a much stronger position with the fans and winning a lot from UEFA.
NFL model, innit?
Yes but its just not cricket football.
Someone involved in the project should have known the importance of the pyramid.
The NFL regularly has a franchise up sticks from one city and decamp in another. The owners of our 6 have no comprehension of the tribal loyalties that underpin football. Wimbledon getting bought and moved to Milton Keynes should have rung alarm bells. The plucky AFC Wimbledon formed and fought their way up umpteen leagues - and in doing so, became most everyone's favourite second team.
But MK Dons is still a commercial success and richer than AFC Wimbledon...they have more season tickets holders than even when Wimbledon were in the EPL, modern stadium, diversified income from events, hotel, retail....
On the pitch MK Dons might only be in League one, but they are financially much better position. For all the screeching, 10,000 people turn up for homes games at MK Dons in League One.
But football fans STILL wouldn't cross the road to piss on them if they were on fire. Outside the loyalist/nationalist divide in NI, it is hard to think of a group that is better at bearing a grudge than football fans. They are passed on, from father to son.
I'm looking forward to fans being back, and the Six being subjected to the chant of "You greedy fucking bastards" week in, week out.....
I don't see how the Six continue to play in the Premiership - probably on health and safety grounds.
They should have expelled the greedy gits today , that would have put the wind up them.
I suspect the question everyone is looking at is can we / how do we legally - insert idea here....
The 15 “founding clubs” of the Super League would share 32.5 per cent of these commercial revenues A further 32.5 per cent would be distributed between all 20 participating teams, including the five sides invited to play in the competition each year Twenty per cent of revenues would be allocated on “merit” or be dependent on performance in the competition The final 15 per cent would be shared based on broadcast audience size Clubs will be also allowed to retain all revenues from gate receipts and club sponsorship deals Super League clubs have committed to using only 55 per cent of their revenues on “sport spending”, such as player salaries, transfer and agent fees, according to people familiar with the terms
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
This reminds me of Brexit pre 2010's. Most people didn't care and gave it little thought. It was therefore not considered an important issue. The minority cared immensely. Votes moved because of that strength of feeling.
Brexit will affect every person in this county for years (and other countries) - creating a new football league will affect hardly anyone and none fundamentally .
The 15 “founding clubs” of the Super League would share 32.5 per cent of these commercial revenues A further 32.5 per cent would be distributed between all 20 participating teams, including the five sides invited to play in the competition each year Twenty per cent of revenues would be allocated on “merit” or be dependent on performance in the competition The final 15 per cent would be shared based on broadcast audience size Clubs will be also allowed to retain all revenues from gate receipts and club sponsorship deals Super League clubs have committed to using only 55 per cent of their revenues on “sport spending”, such as player salaries, transfer and agent fees, according to people familiar with the terms
On topic, the desultory engagement of a couple of Scotch experts while everyone else is fulminating over the Fitba is surely a sign o’ the times. Everything that can be said has been said, all the weary tropes have been exhausted, the people irrelevant to the process remain irrelevant and still no one is capable of making a positive case for the Union (or not without reflexive and associated threats anyway). That the most interesting thing about a national election is what effect one indy supporting party will have upon another indy supporting party says it all. Outside a few (a very few) living rooms and lodge halls, Unionism is dead as an ideology and a growing and evolving political force.
Nice to see that ‘don yer tin hats & beware frothing Nats’ followed by striking absence of same is still a fine old PB meme though.
Me, frothing? Perish the thought.
But it is also very interesting outside PB (and with a few honourable instances within PB, who aren't even Scots so far as I know, though one is now a new Scot) that it's the Unionist commentators now who are saying that saying No to Indyref 2 is just not on. The political conversation is now turning to how to do 1978-type wrecking amendments (i.e. gerrymandering, getting the dead to vote No, etc.). Which also says a lot about Unionism's faith in itself.
The betting is saying that Sindy2 in 22 is becoming significantly more likely.
Trading in the 3s now not the 5s as it had been.
Good spot, thanks. Will be laying the hell out of those 3s.
Rashford joining in, photo quoting Matt Busby "Football is nothing without fans". No doubt those who criticise him for not speaking out on this issue will find fault somehow.
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
Thus speaks the great libertarian.
I specifically said I am not saying it's a good idea.
What part of that confused you?
If it were up to me there wouldn't be a work permit requirement already. But there is. It isn't up to me.
I did predict that Liverpool would be the team that might surrender to fan power
Anfield Watch @AnfieldWatch · 32m Liverpool are growing ‘increasingly doubtful’ about the European Super League project after the wave of fan anger regarding the plans. #awlfc [bild]
The fans must be morons to want to keep supporting the greedy barstewards.
You must have missed the recent Salmond interview in which EFTA membership was promoted as an ideal and quick asolution to re-engaging with the Single Market.
terms of physical goods (you know, the sort of stuff most affected by Brexit), the RUK/EU split in your figures is 50/50., so both were equally valuable.
Services make up the majority of the 60% you and HYUFD are so fond of quoting - mutuial recognition of professional qualification and other standards will quickly solve most of these - or do you think e.g. UK registered architects will be permanently prevented from working in Europe?
Financial services on their own count for one-fifth of your 60% figure - are you seriously suggesting the City of London will accept permanent serious and significant barriers to trading with the EU? An insurance or mortgage contract doesn't need expensive phytosanitary inspections and approvals.
PS don't forget the £5.5 billion of utilities, mainly electricity keeping your lights on, or are you pinning your hopes and plans on expensive nuclear power iprovided by foreign companies and governments?
And don't even get me started on the ridiculous notion that the sharing of Debt and its servicing costs will be anything like the £3.5 billion shown in GERS.
Rashford joining in, photo quoting Matt Busby "Football is nothing without fans". No doubt those who criticise him for not speaking out on this issue will find fault somehow.
Not from me. He has a lot of power and this is a start.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Do you think that the football following public (among who this idea is as popular as Labrador genocide) are going to have a damascene conversion?
Do you think the average fan of a lower league club gives a monkeys what happens to a bunch of winghing mancs and scousers and their club?
These people are dinosaurs. Soon to be extinct. The growth for these clubs is all overseas. Not Liverpool.
As a fan of a lower league club, I don't really care what happens to the greedy six, providing that they don't join a ringfenced ESL while remaining part of the EPL.
However the identities of the 6 belong to their communities, so if they do try and join the ESL, the Govt should do all they can to ensure that the communities retain the IP of the big 6, rather than allow them to be stolen away.
I an ideal world the greedy 6 go off to Dubai/Asia/America and start their globetrotting league, and leave the rest of us in peace, with phoenix clubs allowed to rejoin the non-league structure.
Yep, agree with all that. Which is your lower league club? Don't disappoint me by saying Nottm Forest or Sunderland or some other technically lower league but actually pretty big club - I want properly obscure here!
Good post. Lots of clubs in the lower leagues are big clubs...
Forest, Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday are undoubtably big clubs despite their lack of success.
Foxy was on here the other night saying Forest and Wednesday "used to be big clubs". I pointed out that they still are.
In fact, I'd argue that both are bigger clubs than Leicester.
The table doesn't lie. They have more glorious histories and bigger fanbases, but they are no longer big clubs, any more than Preston North End or Notts County are.
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
Football fans I think tend to overestimate how many avid football fans there are purely because they are noisy on this subject.
Quote During a December 2019 survey conducted by Capgemini, 15 percent of respondents from the United Kingdom stated that they were avid sports fans.
A truly amazing statement from the guy at Real Madrid
"In an interview with Spanish TV, the Super League and Real Madrid chairman Florentino Perez insisted expulsion from the Champions League would not happen, and even suggested that matches could be shortened from 90 minutes to attract younger viewers."
What, so the ESL is going to own football, and they can change fundamental rules however they like, just because, and without consultation. They are the Founding Fathers....
As players' salary escalation appears to be at the root of the problems which led to this wild scheme, why not try seven a side....
Players are paid a lot because that's how the market works - you can look at the NFL where the wages of the top players make all footballers (except say Messi) look like paupers.
Really? NFL aren't paid as highly as NBA. This article suggests the top NFL player as ninth. Below Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar and some NBA.
NFL pays big bucks for a few key positions, the rest they are paid less than footballers. Its partly because you need 50 players on a team and partly because 300 pound, 6ft 5 lumps are a bit interchangeable.
NBA gets the biggest bucks as only 10-12 players on a team, even less than football that need squads of 25-30 players and each position is rather specialist ie. Find somebody 7ft tall that can actually play basketball is incredibly difficult, I think some crazy stat like 10% of all 7ft and over men in the US have played in the NBA.
Am very surprised to see how much baseball has fallen behind. Although sheer comparative length of career makes up for it.
Didnt baseball kind of shoot its own golden hen when they went on strike some years ago?
Watch Season 4 of Brockmire for a sense of where baseball is going.
Must confess. It is the only US sport I followed. Was yesterday it suddenly occurred that the season must have started...
Yep. And they are allowing some in stadium fans too. Not that many, though.
It's strikeout, walk or swing for the fence these days. Little fielding, base stealing or bunting. Very samey. And each game seems longer than the last.
To be fair they have worked well in reviving snooker from its early 21st century doldrums . Good luck to them . I doubt the Cameron government had much of a view on it though (and rightly so)
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
“I don’t care about football” => “Neither does anyone else” => “This isn’t important to voters” => “Governments should be doing something else”.
There’s a good reason why Boris Johnson has an 80 seat majority in Parliament and you are just an anonymous troll on the internet.
The 15 “founding clubs” of the Super League would share 32.5 per cent of these commercial revenues A further 32.5 per cent would be distributed between all 20 participating teams, including the five sides invited to play in the competition each year Twenty per cent of revenues would be allocated on “merit” or be dependent on performance in the competition The final 15 per cent would be shared based on broadcast audience size Clubs will be also allowed to retain all revenues from gate receipts and club sponsorship deals Super League clubs have committed to using only 55 per cent of their revenues on “sport spending”, such as player salaries, transfer and agent fees, according to people familiar with the terms
So basically ~35% of income as pure profit.
What happens to the spare 10%
Non sport spending like admin, marketing, finance, matchday or maintenance staff.
There are rumours of clubs having 2nd thoughts. Specifically Chelsea and City.
When did you last go to a game, Leon?
10 years ago? Maybe more
What the F does it matter. I was a passionate - and I mean PASSIONATE fan as a kid - I would attend reserve matches of my local club - reserves! in the 4th division! - and I adored LEEDS as my big club. Travelled by train age 14 to see them at Anfield, what a day!
I was mad on club football into my 20s, then became a more detached fan, focusing more on the premiership football I like - on TV - and to this day I always watch as much euro and World Cup as I can. And UCL, I love a good competitive UCL game, the drama and energy. The mediocrity of the England national team has been a constant source of sincere pain to me, and it still is
My little home team was promoted three times and relegated the same - 3 times - in my youth. I know the pain and anguish, the joy and exhilaration. Promotion and relegation are VITAL to English football. So I can see the horror of the ESL for what it is
Yes yes, jumpers for goalposts, but all this is true. I grew up with footie and it is in my DNA even if I haven't been to an EPL game since 2000 and whatever
So you have enjoyed football at all levels.
Can you summarise for me succintly (big ask, I know) what your objection to this is. What is it going to do to the game you say you love.
You don't understand football, otherwise you would know instinctively. There's no point
But I'll have one more heave: closed shop. No relegation. Hideous. If you don't grasp this intuitively you do not comprehend football and I suggest you stop talking about it
"No relegation".
The domestic leagues will continue with relegation and promotion, etc. What's so bad about Liverpool also playing Real Madrid on a Wednesday evening.
You have literally no idea what you are talking about.
FFS you minge-head there's no relegation for the "founding fathers"
So just shut your damn mouth now
LOL. "you mong". I see you are harking back to your jumpers for goalposts time as a lad watching Aston Rovers in 1906 with your father.
So what if there is no relegation for the "founding fathers"? What does that even mean? Each year those teams will compete to win the league (if it's not a knockout competition). Who cares that there is no relegation? You get to see those teams play to see who's the best.
Be honest, you've never watched a football match in your life, have you? Not in the flesh?
You've never been to a league ground, paid money, and watched a game.
Anyone who has, instinctively gets the problem here, which is why 99% of people who watch football understand and hate the ESL idea. It's very telling that you don't
The interesting thing about this conversation, amongst the abuse, is that @TOPPING is, I think, inadvertently channelling the view of the American backers of the scheme - who come from a culture in which a competition is concocted from the top down - and therefore genuinely don't understand why anyone would see relegation as important. The idea of starting from the bottom and working your way gradually upwards just doesn't happen in American sport.
And so the backers, like, I think, Topping, unless he's trolling, genuinely don't understand the nature of the opposition to this. They genuinely view fans as customers.
I say this not as a criticism of either Topping or the American owners, just as a reflection that there is an important lack of understanding amongst some people with a surprisingly large stake in all this of how European (British?) sports fans view sports.
I am perfectly aware of the importance of "working your way up". But this is a separate league. Teams will still be able to work their way up to the top of the EPL. But it won't be with those top six clubs. So the fans of those top six clubs will be disappointed not to win the EPL. But that is down to UEFA.
Oh, well possibly we agree. Apologies if I was misrepresenting you. My position is that the super league is stupid, because closed shop and no relegation. The EPL is not stupid, because not closed shop. Therefore, the super league will start out dull and get duller, and its attraction will dwindle in a way that those from a different sporting culture don't understand. The EPL will be fine without the big six (who can't really be allowed to stay and play their second string sides). It'll lose some money initially, but that's no bad thing for the consumer, and it'll be fine in the long run.
Yes I think that's right the only big question mark being will the ESL get duller and duller? Not sure. Perhaps. But I'm guessing it could be like the Harlem Globetrotters. Or those clubs will go all out to be as good and competitive as possible in the ESL and it will be cracking football.
I do think it introduces all kinds of distortions. Clubs will have bad years. In the EPL, for most of the season there's something in play for most of the clubs. Title might be beyond reach (from the start for most clubs!) but Champions League and Europa are the things at stake for the better performing clubs; relegation is a possibility for all that are too far down to have a shout at those. Sure, towards the end of the season there are some mid-table dead games, but not for that many clubs for that long.
So, Arsenal drift a bit (it's common, I'm a fan of almost four decades, I know how it goes...). They're not on form to take the title. But they can't get relegated. Who gives a shit any more? I'd still be interested in tuning in to see them hopefully give Spurs a kicking and Man U or Liverpool for old times sake, but watching them get thumped by Real while going through the motions? Yawn. I'd rather be off watching a new Woolwich Arsenal battling it out with Manchester Reunited in the lower leagues.
Now, your global audience that doesn't really have a strong team attachment and just wants to wach good footie? They'll likely lap it up. It probably will be commercially successful. But for those of us who support our father's team, who never 'chose' our team? Well, that club will no longer exist. But then, maybe it already doesn't.
Well first I think it already doesn't. In the absence of anyone previously putting up any coherent argument against the ESL I put one up myself and came to the conclusion that it could be that as no one can get booted out, no one makes an effort and, as you say, the "quality" (eye of the beholder) dwindles and dwindles. But again as you say, that is fine because people will either not (pay to) watch it or will.
And my guess is that there may be some incentive structure to ensure that the clubs really do want to win it. And I've got to believe that if "your" team was playing you would want them to beat Real, Spurs, etc.
I always want to beat Spurs
I can say from experience, that in European competitions when it doesn't matter (i.e. we've already lost enough to know we're not going to progress from the group stages) then I've little to no interest in Arsenal playing $randomeuropeanclub. That does also happen towards the end of the EPL season if there's little at stake, but the list of clubs I'd just like us to beat in any game is longer. And there's normally something at stake - even if we're comfortable in a Champions League place, there's still finishing third above Spurs, for example.
The trouble here, for me, is towards the end of the ESL season and we can't win the title, we can't get relegated, we're playing one of the non-England clubs. Who cares? Answer, probably still plenty of people worldwide to make a killing on the TV rights, and them caring much more than say Arsenal versus Burnley in a dead rubber in the EPL.
I do think it will be commercially successful. FWIW I don't think the government should intervene (I can't really see the grounds for doing so without opening up interesting cans of worms). I don't think I'd have a great deal of interest in it.
There are rumours of clubs having 2nd thoughts. Specifically Chelsea and City.
When did you last go to a game, Leon?
10 years ago? Maybe more
What the F does it matter. I was a passionate - and I mean PASSIONATE fan as a kid - I would attend reserve matches of my local club - reserves! in the 4th division! - and I adored LEEDS as my big club. Travelled by train age 14 to see them at Anfield, what a day!
I was mad on club football into my 20s, then became a more detached fan, focusing more on the premiership football I like - on TV - and to this day I always watch as much euro and World Cup as I can. And UCL, I love a good competitive UCL game, the drama and energy. The mediocrity of the England national team has been a constant source of sincere pain to me, and it still is
My little home team was promoted three times and relegated the same - 3 times - in my youth. I know the pain and anguish, the joy and exhilaration. Promotion and relegation are VITAL to English football. So I can see the horror of the ESL for what it is
Yes yes, jumpers for goalposts, but all this is true. I grew up with footie and it is in my DNA even if I haven't been to an EPL game since 2000 and whatever
So you have enjoyed football at all levels.
Can you summarise for me succintly (big ask, I know) what your objection to this is. What is it going to do to the game you say you love.
You don't understand football, otherwise you would know instinctively. There's no point
But I'll have one more heave: closed shop. No relegation. Hideous. If you don't grasp this intuitively you do not comprehend football and I suggest you stop talking about it
"No relegation".
The domestic leagues will continue with relegation and promotion, etc. What's so bad about Liverpool also playing Real Madrid on a Wednesday evening.
You have literally no idea what you are talking about.
FFS you minge-head there's no relegation for the "founding fathers"
So just shut your damn mouth now
LOL. "you mong". I see you are harking back to your jumpers for goalposts time as a lad watching Aston Rovers in 1906 with your father.
So what if there is no relegation for the "founding fathers"? What does that even mean? Each year those teams will compete to win the league (if it's not a knockout competition). Who cares that there is no relegation? You get to see those teams play to see who's the best.
Be honest, you've never watched a football match in your life, have you? Not in the flesh?
You've never been to a league ground, paid money, and watched a game.
Anyone who has, instinctively gets the problem here, which is why 99% of people who watch football understand and hate the ESL idea. It's very telling that you don't
The interesting thing about this conversation, amongst the abuse, is that @TOPPING is, I think, inadvertently channelling the view of the American backers of the scheme - who come from a culture in which a competition is concocted from the top down - and therefore genuinely don't understand why anyone would see relegation as important. The idea of starting from the bottom and working your way gradually upwards just doesn't happen in American sport.
And so the backers, like, I think, Topping, unless he's trolling, genuinely don't understand the nature of the opposition to this. They genuinely view fans as customers.
I say this not as a criticism of either Topping or the American owners, just as a reflection that there is an important lack of understanding amongst some people with a surprisingly large stake in all this of how European (British?) sports fans view sports.
I am perfectly aware of the importance of "working your way up". But this is a separate league. Teams will still be able to work their way up to the top of the EPL. But it won't be with those top six clubs. So the fans of those top six clubs will be disappointed not to win the EPL. But that is down to UEFA.
Oh, well possibly we agree. Apologies if I was misrepresenting you. My position is that the super league is stupid, because closed shop and no relegation. The EPL is not stupid, because not closed shop. Therefore, the super league will start out dull and get duller, and its attraction will dwindle in a way that those from a different sporting culture don't understand. The EPL will be fine without the big six (who can't really be allowed to stay and play their second string sides). It'll lose some money initially, but that's no bad thing for the consumer, and it'll be fine in the long run.
Yes I think that's right the only big question mark being will the ESL get duller and duller? Not sure. Perhaps. But I'm guessing it could be like the Harlem Globetrotters. Or those clubs will go all out to be as good and competitive as possible in the ESL and it will be cracking football.
I do think it introduces all kinds of distortions. Clubs will have bad years. In the EPL, for most of the season there's something in play for most of the clubs. Title might be beyond reach (from the start for most clubs!) but Champions League and Europa are the things at stake for the better performing clubs; relegation is a possibility for all that are too far down to have a shout at those. Sure, towards the end of the season there are some mid-table dead games, but not for that many clubs for that long.
So, Arsenal drift a bit (it's common, I'm a fan of almost four decades, I know how it goes...). They're not on form to take the title. But they can't get relegated. Who gives a shit any more? I'd still be interested in tuning in to see them hopefully give Spurs a kicking and Man U or Liverpool for old times sake, but watching them get thumped by Real while going through the motions? Yawn. I'd rather be off watching a new Woolwich Arsenal battling it out with Manchester Reunited in the lower leagues.
Now, your global audience that doesn't really have a strong team attachment and just wants to wach good footie? They'll likely lap it up. It probably will be commercially successful. But for those of us who support our father's team, who never 'chose' our team? Well, that club will no longer exist. But then, maybe it already doesn't.
What I think they should have done is spin out new companies specifically for this, so have THFC PL LTD and THFC ESL LTD with the former inheriting the first team and the latter building a new one over a period of three seasons and getting use of the stadium every other weekend for 38 matches per year. Essentially all 12 clubs creating a new first team structure for the plastics in Asia from the revenues derived there and keeping the rest of the club essentially the same.
I don't know how feasible it is, but at that point I wouldn't care and it would be up to the players if they wanted sign for the ESL club but be ineligible for international football and play few to no domestic matches and eventually deal with the fact that these games would likely be played in Asia in front of plastic crowds.
The Premier League, alongside The FA, met with clubs today to discuss the immediate implications of the Super League proposal.
The 14 clubs at the meeting unanimously and vigorously rejected the plans for the competition.
The Premier League is considering all actions available to prevent it from progressing, as well as holding those Shareholders involved to account under its rules.
The League will continue to work with key stakeholders including fan groups, Government, UEFA, The FA, EFL, PFA and LMA to protect the best interests of the game and call on those clubs involved in the proposed competition to cease their involvement immediately.
The Premier League would like to thank fans and all stakeholders for the support they have shown this week on this significant issue.
The reaction proves just how much our open pyramid and football community means to people.
I'm a federalist out campaigning for a federalist solution (LibDems) so despite accusations that I am a Sturgeon fanboi I am not. But there are some hard truths for both sides:
1. The Union in its current form is unsustainable. We either completely redraw the UK so that power is devolved to reflect the 4 home nations and their differences of opinion, or it tears itself apart. 2. As the current Brexit settlement doesn't work, it doesn't pose a risk to Scottish independence. Arguing that Scotland cannot leave the UK customs union without chaos isn't an argument when the UK government has expelled NI from the UK customs union. The government stuck a customs border down the Irish Sea and has had to drop large chunks of it because stupid. The solution that evolves for NI will also be a solution for Scotland 3. EU membership is unlikely to be a problem. Scotland was a member until very recently and would be far more aligned than many ascension countries have been. 4. EU membership will almost certainly come with strings attached. Such as the Euro. This shouldn't be an impediment to independence as frankly its a far better solution than to continue the Sterling union, but the SNP don't want to talk about the currency.
How to guarantee that Scotland says "bugger this"? Do as HYUFD urges and make the union one based upon English law rather than Scottish democratic consent. Whether you support independence or not, the suggestion that the Scottish people no longer have a democratic say is profoundly troubling.
It isn’t whether it could join the EU - it’s how long it would take. Ten years is a probable timeframe, which would include five years of transitional arrangements, the worst of all worlds for the Scottish economy.
As for the Euro being better than the pound, that seems unlikely given Scotland’s trade imbalances.
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
“I don’t care about football” => “Neither does anyone else” => “This isn’t important to voters” => “Governments should be doing something else”.
There’s a good reason why Boris Johnson has an 80 seat majority in Parliament and you are just an anonymous troll on the internet.
and what in your eyes defines a troll ? are you a troll or is your opinion not trolling and mine (presumably because its not yours ) trolling? Isn't this site for posting opinion ? and also unless your name is Moon Shine then are you not also annonymous?
I did predict that Liverpool would be the team that might surrender to fan power
Anfield Watch @AnfieldWatch · 32m Liverpool are growing ‘increasingly doubtful’ about the European Super League project after the wave of fan anger regarding the plans. #awlfc [bild]
The Times did choose to illustrate their article on an unamed team having wobbles with a picture of Anfield...
A truly amazing statement from the guy at Real Madrid
"In an interview with Spanish TV, the Super League and Real Madrid chairman Florentino Perez insisted expulsion from the Champions League would not happen, and even suggested that matches could be shortened from 90 minutes to attract younger viewers."
What, so the ESL is going to own football, and they can change fundamental rules however they like, just because, and without consultation. They are the Founding Fathers....
As players' salary escalation appears to be at the root of the problems which led to this wild scheme, why not try seven a side....
Players are paid a lot because that's how the market works - you can look at the NFL where the wages of the top players make all footballers (except say Messi) look like paupers.
Really? NFL aren't paid as highly as NBA. This article suggests the top NFL player as ninth. Below Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar and some NBA.
NFL pays big bucks for a few key positions, the rest they are paid less than footballers. Its partly because you need 50 players on a team and partly because 300 pound, 6ft 5 lumps are a bit interchangeable.
NBA gets the biggest bucks as only 10-12 players on a team, even less than football that need squads of 25-30 players and each position is rather specialist ie. Find somebody 7ft tall that can actually play basketball is incredibly difficult, I think some crazy stat like 10% of all 7ft and over men in the US have played in the NBA.
Am very surprised to see how much baseball has fallen behind. Although sheer comparative length of career makes up for it.
Didnt baseball kind of shoot its own golden hen when they went on strike some years ago?
Watch Season 4 of Brockmire for a sense of where baseball is going.
Must confess. It is the only US sport I followed. Was yesterday it suddenly occurred that the season must have started...
Yep. And they are allowing some in stadium fans too. Not that many, though.
It's strikeout, walk or swing for the fence these days. Little fielding, base stealing or bunting. Very samey. And each game seems longer than the last.
I miss the Derek Jeter Yankees nickel and dimming their way to big run numbers.
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
Football fans I think tend to overestimate how many avid football fans there are purely because they are noisy on this subject.
Quote During a December 2019 survey conducted by Capgemini, 15 percent of respondents from the United Kingdom stated that they were avid sports fans.
To be fair they have worked well in reviving snooker from its early 21st century doldrums . Good luck to them . I doubt the Cameron government had much of a view on it though (and rightly so)
They have. However, the rise of Ding Junhui, and therefore China, has played a bigger part in snooker picking up its bed and walking again.
There are rumours of clubs having 2nd thoughts. Specifically Chelsea and City.
When did you last go to a game, Leon?
10 years ago? Maybe more
What the F does it matter. I was a passionate - and I mean PASSIONATE fan as a kid - I would attend reserve matches of my local club - reserves! in the 4th division! - and I adored LEEDS as my big club. Travelled by train age 14 to see them at Anfield, what a day!
I was mad on club football into my 20s, then became a more detached fan, focusing more on the premiership football I like - on TV - and to this day I always watch as much euro and World Cup as I can. And UCL, I love a good competitive UCL game, the drama and energy. The mediocrity of the England national team has been a constant source of sincere pain to me, and it still is
My little home team was promoted three times and relegated the same - 3 times - in my youth. I know the pain and anguish, the joy and exhilaration. Promotion and relegation are VITAL to English football. So I can see the horror of the ESL for what it is
Yes yes, jumpers for goalposts, but all this is true. I grew up with footie and it is in my DNA even if I haven't been to an EPL game since 2000 and whatever
So you have enjoyed football at all levels.
Can you summarise for me succintly (big ask, I know) what your objection to this is. What is it going to do to the game you say you love.
You don't understand football, otherwise you would know instinctively. There's no point
But I'll have one more heave: closed shop. No relegation. Hideous. If you don't grasp this intuitively you do not comprehend football and I suggest you stop talking about it
"No relegation".
The domestic leagues will continue with relegation and promotion, etc. What's so bad about Liverpool also playing Real Madrid on a Wednesday evening.
You have literally no idea what you are talking about.
FFS you minge-head there's no relegation for the "founding fathers"
So just shut your damn mouth now
LOL. "you mong". I see you are harking back to your jumpers for goalposts time as a lad watching Aston Rovers in 1906 with your father.
So what if there is no relegation for the "founding fathers"? What does that even mean? Each year those teams will compete to win the league (if it's not a knockout competition). Who cares that there is no relegation? You get to see those teams play to see who's the best.
Be honest, you've never watched a football match in your life, have you? Not in the flesh?
You've never been to a league ground, paid money, and watched a game.
Anyone who has, instinctively gets the problem here, which is why 99% of people who watch football understand and hate the ESL idea. It's very telling that you don't
The interesting thing about this conversation, amongst the abuse, is that @TOPPING is, I think, inadvertently channelling the view of the American backers of the scheme - who come from a culture in which a competition is concocted from the top down - and therefore genuinely don't understand why anyone would see relegation as important. The idea of starting from the bottom and working your way gradually upwards just doesn't happen in American sport.
And so the backers, like, I think, Topping, unless he's trolling, genuinely don't understand the nature of the opposition to this. They genuinely view fans as customers.
I say this not as a criticism of either Topping or the American owners, just as a reflection that there is an important lack of understanding amongst some people with a surprisingly large stake in all this of how European (British?) sports fans view sports.
I am perfectly aware of the importance of "working your way up". But this is a separate league. Teams will still be able to work their way up to the top of the EPL. But it won't be with those top six clubs. So the fans of those top six clubs will be disappointed not to win the EPL. But that is down to UEFA.
Oh, well possibly we agree. Apologies if I was misrepresenting you. My position is that the super league is stupid, because closed shop and no relegation. The EPL is not stupid, because not closed shop. Therefore, the super league will start out dull and get duller, and its attraction will dwindle in a way that those from a different sporting culture don't understand. The EPL will be fine without the big six (who can't really be allowed to stay and play their second string sides). It'll lose some money initially, but that's no bad thing for the consumer, and it'll be fine in the long run.
Yes I think that's right the only big question mark being will the ESL get duller and duller? Not sure. Perhaps. But I'm guessing it could be like the Harlem Globetrotters. Or those clubs will go all out to be as good and competitive as possible in the ESL and it will be cracking football.
I do think it introduces all kinds of distortions. Clubs will have bad years. In the EPL, for most of the season there's something in play for most of the clubs. Title might be beyond reach (from the start for most clubs!) but Champions League and Europa are the things at stake for the better performing clubs; relegation is a possibility for all that are too far down to have a shout at those. Sure, towards the end of the season there are some mid-table dead games, but not for that many clubs for that long.
So, Arsenal drift a bit (it's common, I'm a fan of almost four decades, I know how it goes...). They're not on form to take the title. But they can't get relegated. Who gives a shit any more? I'd still be interested in tuning in to see them hopefully give Spurs a kicking and Man U or Liverpool for old times sake, but watching them get thumped by Real while going through the motions? Yawn. I'd rather be off watching a new Woolwich Arsenal battling it out with Manchester Reunited in the lower leagues.
Now, your global audience that doesn't really have a strong team attachment and just wants to wach good footie? They'll likely lap it up. It probably will be commercially successful. But for those of us who support our father's team, who never 'chose' our team? Well, that club will no longer exist. But then, maybe it already doesn't.
Well first I think it already doesn't. In the absence of anyone previously putting up any coherent argument against the ESL I put one up myself and came to the conclusion that it could be that as no one can get booted out, no one makes an effort and, as you say, the "quality" (eye of the beholder) dwindles and dwindles. But again as you say, that is fine because people will either not (pay to) watch it or will.
And my guess is that there may be some incentive structure to ensure that the clubs really do want to win it. And I've got to believe that if "your" team was playing you would want them to beat Real, Spurs, etc.
I always want to beat Spurs
I can say from experience, that in European competitions when it doesn't matter (i.e. we've already lost enough to know we're not going to progress from the group stages) then I've little to no interest in Arsenal playing $randomeuropeanclub. That does also happen towards the end of the EPL season if there's little at stake, but the list of clubs I'd just like us to beat in any game is longer. And there's normally something at stake - even if we're comfortable in a Champions League place, there's still finishing third above Spurs, for example.
The trouble here, for me, is towards the end of the ESL season and we can't win the title, we can't get relegated, we're playing one of the non-England clubs. Who cares? Answer, probably still plenty of people worldwide to make a killing on the TV rights, and them caring much more than say Arsenal versus Burnley in a dead rubber in the EPL.
I do think it will be commercially successful. FWIW I don't think the government should intervene (I can't really see the grounds for doing so without opening up interesting cans of worms). I don't think I'd have a great deal of interest in it.
You are asking the right questions and answering them! Arsenal aren't going to be relegated although I wouldn't put it past them and dead rubbers are dead rubbers. I don't care about those games you mention whether in the CL or the EPL although let's not forget that right now, Arsenal would be the Burnley of the ESL. But for those competing for top spot would want to make it competitive and that is what marks it out from a group stage competition.
Will it be commercially successful? Who knows. The boys and girls at JP have presumably crunched the numbers and will not either be surprised to see the fans' reaction. But it should rest on that - commercial success or otherwise, not the govt.
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
Football fans I think tend to overestimate how many avid football fans there are purely because they are noisy on this subject.
Quote During a December 2019 survey conducted by Capgemini, 15 percent of respondents from the United Kingdom stated that they were avid sports fans.
Couldn't find one specifically on football but I think we can assume the vast bulk of that 15% are football fans
That's ten million Brits who are AVID sports fans. About as many people as voted Labour in 2019
And that's just the AVID ones. I would probably not call myself "avid" - not like I was as a boy - but I do enjoy sport a lot
So there's maybe 10-20 million more like me?
Of course the government is gonna get involved
I very much doubt its anywhere near 20 million, personal experience tells me that back in the 80's and 90's football was a common work topic....nowadays hardly hear it mentioned. We did have one guy on our team in the office who when he started would mention it but he stopped when he realised no one else was interested. That is on our team of ten
A truly amazing statement from the guy at Real Madrid
"In an interview with Spanish TV, the Super League and Real Madrid chairman Florentino Perez insisted expulsion from the Champions League would not happen, and even suggested that matches could be shortened from 90 minutes to attract younger viewers."
What, so the ESL is going to own football, and they can change fundamental rules however they like, just because, and without consultation. They are the Founding Fathers....
As players' salary escalation appears to be at the root of the problems which led to this wild scheme, why not try seven a side....
Players are paid a lot because that's how the market works - you can look at the NFL where the wages of the top players make all footballers (except say Messi) look like paupers.
Really? NFL aren't paid as highly as NBA. This article suggests the top NFL player as ninth. Below Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar and some NBA.
NFL pays big bucks for a few key positions, the rest they are paid less than footballers. Its partly because you need 50 players on a team and partly because 300 pound, 6ft 5 lumps are a bit interchangeable.
NBA gets the biggest bucks as only 10-12 players on a team, even less than football that need squads of 25-30 players and each position is rather specialist ie. Find somebody 7ft tall that can actually play basketball is incredibly difficult, I think some crazy stat like 10% of all 7ft and over men in the US have played in the NBA.
Am very surprised to see how much baseball has fallen behind. Although sheer comparative length of career makes up for it.
Didnt baseball kind of shoot its own golden hen when they went on strike some years ago?
Watch Season 4 of Brockmire for a sense of where baseball is going.
Must confess. It is the only US sport I followed. Was yesterday it suddenly occurred that the season must have started...
Yep. And they are allowing some in stadium fans too. Not that many, though.
It's strikeout, walk or swing for the fence these days. Little fielding, base stealing or bunting. Very samey. And each game seems longer than the last.
I miss the Derek Jeter Yankees nickel and dimming their way to big run numbers.
Smallball is just more fun. Ichiro Suzuki leading off with yet another slapped single setting up the inning.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
Dead wrong about Trump? Me and millions of other punters. that the best you got treacle? How many more were wrong about remain in 2016? FFS.
The reason my posting riles you is like all the other fake tories on here, and out there, you fear being undermined from the right, you fear being called out on the wholesale departure of the Johnson government from any form of conservatism whatsoever.
Well suck it up bucko, because I intend to keep sticking it to you and all the other pant wetting pinko tories going. Particularly you. I live to stick it to you.
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
Football fans I think tend to overestimate how many avid football fans there are purely because they are noisy on this subject.
Quote During a December 2019 survey conducted by Capgemini, 15 percent of respondents from the United Kingdom stated that they were avid sports fans.
Couldn't find one specifically on football but I think we can assume the vast bulk of that 15% are football fans
That's ten million Brits who are AVID sports fans. About as many people as voted Labour in 2019
And that's just the AVID ones. I would probably not call myself "avid" - not like I was as a boy - but I do enjoy sport a lot
So there's maybe 10-20 million more like me?
Of course the government is gonna get involved
I very much doubt its anywhere near 20 million, personal experience tells me that back in the 80's and 90's football was a common work topic....nowadays hardly hear it mentioned. We did have one guy on our team in the office who when he started would mention it but he stopped when he realised no one else was interested. That is on our team of ten
Yeah, but you claim you speak Cornish as a native language, so there's that
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
I assume there would be contractual problems with that — where the PL have agreements with third parties.
A truly amazing statement from the guy at Real Madrid
"In an interview with Spanish TV, the Super League and Real Madrid chairman Florentino Perez insisted expulsion from the Champions League would not happen, and even suggested that matches could be shortened from 90 minutes to attract younger viewers."
What, so the ESL is going to own football, and they can change fundamental rules however they like, just because, and without consultation. They are the Founding Fathers....
As players' salary escalation appears to be at the root of the problems which led to this wild scheme, why not try seven a side....
Players are paid a lot because that's how the market works - you can look at the NFL where the wages of the top players make all footballers (except say Messi) look like paupers.
Really? NFL aren't paid as highly as NBA. This article suggests the top NFL player as ninth. Below Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar and some NBA.
NFL pays big bucks for a few key positions, the rest they are paid less than footballers. Its partly because you need 50 players on a team and partly because 300 pound, 6ft 5 lumps are a bit interchangeable.
NBA gets the biggest bucks as only 10-12 players on a team, even less than football that need squads of 25-30 players and each position is rather specialist ie. Find somebody 7ft tall that can actually play basketball is incredibly difficult, I think some crazy stat like 10% of all 7ft and over men in the US have played in the NBA.
Am very surprised to see how much baseball has fallen behind. Although sheer comparative length of career makes up for it.
Didnt baseball kind of shoot its own golden hen when they went on strike some years ago?
Watch Season 4 of Brockmire for a sense of where baseball is going.
Must confess. It is the only US sport I followed. Was yesterday it suddenly occurred that the season must have started...
Yep. And they are allowing some in stadium fans too. Not that many, though.
It's strikeout, walk or swing for the fence these days. Little fielding, base stealing or bunting. Very samey. And each game seems longer than the last.
I miss the Derek Jeter Yankees nickel and dimming their way to big run numbers.
Smallball is just more fun. Ichiro Suzuki leading off with yet another slapped single setting up the inning.
Ichirooooooooooooooooo, what a player in the noughties.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
From the beginning of this I wondered why there was 6 English clubs (including Tottenham) listed and I suspect it's something to do with how the Premier League is structured. It's almost like one or 2 clubs are there for a reason...
I did look at the Premier League's rules yesterday and I couldn't see anything obvious but that probably meant I wasn't looking in the correct place.
I continue to be amused at the idea of this government taking legal action against these clubs to stop their billionaire owners legally plying their trade as they see fit. As I keep pointing out they have literally no interest in fighting for the little guy against money when the little guy is a cab driver or junior doctor or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses being given a pay cut.
Supposedly football is different. It is politically because the people who cheer on the cause of big money vs cab drivers or junior doctors or firefighters or soldiers or the police or the nurses also cheers on a football club. So lets go full hypocrite and try and stop big money doing what we always encourage it to do.
These clubs can't be sanctioned by the EPL. They could be barred from UEFA tournaments but thats the whole point in their action so who cares. So what does the government want to do? Force community majority ownership of football clubs? Bit commie isn't it, and where does that stop? Block the TV deal and establish free to air? Hang on, what about all these other sports boxed behind a paywall for profit? Just pass a "EPL Ban Law"? Based on what legal principle?
Which is why Twitter lawyers are laughing at the idea this government will - or can - do anything at all. Its just headlines. This is a football governance issue and a solution to it either is found within the governance of football or it isn't.
The government can simply stop issuing work permits. Of course, that can be challenged in the courts, perhaps successfully, but by the time that happens it would, literally, be game over.
Great! No work permits for football would make for an interesting change to all our leagues. The point here being that "stop issuing work permits" for football can't just discriminate against 6 teams - it will be all teams. That really a rabbit hole they want to go down? To have your average football fan passionately advocating for immigrants to come here and take very well paid jobs from locals?
Not saying it's a good idea but it could be possible to design a work permit system to target the 6. It almost does already.
To be eligible for a permit a footballer needs to have played for their national squad a certain proportion of games.
ESL club players will be ineligible according to FIFA to play for the squad.
So connect these pieces together . . . Set a requirement that for a permit you must be eligible for your national squad.
~Another person I thought was into small state government arguing for governments to spend time passing laws about who plays who in football leagues!
Do you have any idea how popular it will be if the Government stops this. Part of being a politician is to gain and then remian in power. This will be a massive vote winner.
again i think this is deluded football talk - the majority of people do not really care about football and the vast majority of people do not care about this - the ones that do obviously post on social media though. Voters care about government doing important stuff - this isnt important stuff
Football fans I think tend to overestimate how many avid football fans there are purely because they are noisy on this subject.
Quote During a December 2019 survey conducted by Capgemini, 15 percent of respondents from the United Kingdom stated that they were avid sports fans.
Couldn't find one specifically on football but I think we can assume the vast bulk of that 15% are football fans
That's ten million Brits who are AVID sports fans. About as many people as voted Labour in 2019
And that's just the AVID ones. I would probably not call myself "avid" - not like I was as a boy - but I do enjoy sport a lot
So there's maybe 10-20 million more like me?
Of course the government is gonna get involved
I very much doubt its anywhere near 20 million, personal experience tells me that back in the 80's and 90's football was a common work topic....nowadays hardly hear it mentioned. We did have one guy on our team in the office who when he started would mention it but he stopped when he realised no one else was interested. That is on our team of ten
Yeah, but you claim you speak Cornish as a native language, so there's that
And I work in an office in the south east your point is? Football fans tend to congregate together and assume that everyone is like them its classic bubble behaviour. I certainly hear more discussions about soap opera's at work than I do football and it is probably 20 years or so since on meeting some random guy I have been asked "So who do you support?". Football as an interest is waning
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
A truly amazing statement from the guy at Real Madrid
"In an interview with Spanish TV, the Super League and Real Madrid chairman Florentino Perez insisted expulsion from the Champions League would not happen, and even suggested that matches could be shortened from 90 minutes to attract younger viewers."
What, so the ESL is going to own football, and they can change fundamental rules however they like, just because, and without consultation. They are the Founding Fathers....
As players' salary escalation appears to be at the root of the problems which led to this wild scheme, why not try seven a side....
Players are paid a lot because that's how the market works - you can look at the NFL where the wages of the top players make all footballers (except say Messi) look like paupers.
Really? NFL aren't paid as highly as NBA. This article suggests the top NFL player as ninth. Below Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar and some NBA.
NFL pays big bucks for a few key positions, the rest they are paid less than footballers. Its partly because you need 50 players on a team and partly because 300 pound, 6ft 5 lumps are a bit interchangeable.
NBA gets the biggest bucks as only 10-12 players on a team, even less than football that need squads of 25-30 players and each position is rather specialist ie. Find somebody 7ft tall that can actually play basketball is incredibly difficult, I think some crazy stat like 10% of all 7ft and over men in the US have played in the NBA.
Am very surprised to see how much baseball has fallen behind. Although sheer comparative length of career makes up for it.
Didnt baseball kind of shoot its own golden hen when they went on strike some years ago?
Watch Season 4 of Brockmire for a sense of where baseball is going.
Must confess. It is the only US sport I followed. Was yesterday it suddenly occurred that the season must have started...
Yep. And they are allowing some in stadium fans too. Not that many, though.
It's strikeout, walk or swing for the fence these days. Little fielding, base stealing or bunting. Very samey. And each game seems longer than the last.
I miss the Derek Jeter Yankees nickel and dimming their way to big run numbers.
Smallball is just more fun. Ichiro Suzuki leading off with yet another slapped single setting up the inning.
Agreed. Don't know why, but I always loved it when a lead-off hitter got an opposite side single.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
I assume there would be contractual problems with that — where the PL have agreements with third parties.
Labour’s Shadow Digital Secretary Jo Stevens offered a loyal defence for Sir Keir today after Guido reported on his gas-guzzling flight to Edinburgh over the weekend. Speaking on Politics Live, Stevens said:
“He flew to Edinburgh because he was doing a visit to Edinburgh airport…now, you know, we can all make personal choices […] we all have time limit on our time […] I’ve seen plenty of photographs and pictures of Keir on trains during the election campaign.”
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
They need 3/4 of the vote. Which is why there are 6 and not 5 or 7. If 14 resign they could easily set up next season playing each other three times for one season only. But then TV contracts...
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
From the beginning of this I wondered why there was 6 English clubs (including Tottenham) listed and I suspect it's something to do with how the Premier League is structured. It's almost like one or 2 clubs are there for a reason...
I did look at the Premier League's rules yesterday and I couldn't see anything obvious but that probably meant I wasn't looking in the correct place.
Presumably because if even 2 of those clubs stayed in the PL, the PL > SL.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
@TOPPING it devalues the entire English game. The whole point of the entire pyramid is that any team can in theory rise to the top, based purely on sporting success. This prevents that.
This is a battle of business v sport. American sporting culture vs European sporting culture.
Furthermore it will devalue the TV rights to the Premier League and by consequence devalue the "solidarity" payments made to the rest of the Football League.
And I note your concern that the rights to the EPL might be devalued. Perish the thought.
That devolution means that less money goes down the league and so smaller clubs already struggling go bust.
But you don't get that do you.
So now we are all in favour of Sky's multi-billion dollar TV rights package for which you pay £70/month?
What happened to jumpers for goalposts?
Sky Sports HD costs me £15 per month.
and how much does the Sky base package cost?
NowTV annual sports passes can usually be had for £180-200 per year around the time the F1 season and football seasons start. It's great value if you're into more than just football or F1. For me it's 100% worth it.
That wasn't the case this year it was £29 a month..
The F1 forums are not happy with the NowTV offer - £18 a month for just the F1 channel, it was £10 last year.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
I assume there would be contractual problems with that — where the PL have agreements with third parties.
Wouldn't the contracts go down with the ship?
I'm not 100% sure But I probably should know, as my new job will probably cover this area...
My main first thought is that rights holders such as SKY and BT would not be happy, and any new deals would likely be at a significant lower rate, so the PL teams themselves would not be happy.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
From the beginning of this I wondered why there was 6 English clubs (including Tottenham) listed and I suspect it's something to do with how the Premier League is structured. It's almost like one or 2 clubs are there for a reason...
I did look at the Premier League's rules yesterday and I couldn't see anything obvious but that probably meant I wasn't looking in the correct place.
Spurs makes sense from the plastic fans in Asia perspective and Arsenal have got an American owner burned by years out of the Champions League. Spurs regularly fill out stadiums all over Asia for friendly matches and our games get really good ratings there because there are some world class players like Kane and Son.
@TOPPING it devalues the entire English game. The whole point of the entire pyramid is that any team can in theory rise to the top, based purely on sporting success. This prevents that.
This is a battle of business v sport. American sporting culture vs European sporting culture.
Furthermore it will devalue the TV rights to the Premier League and by consequence devalue the "solidarity" payments made to the rest of the Football League.
And I note your concern that the rights to the EPL might be devalued. Perish the thought.
That devolution means that less money goes down the league and so smaller clubs already struggling go bust.
But you don't get that do you.
So now we are all in favour of Sky's multi-billion dollar TV rights package for which you pay £70/month?
What happened to jumpers for goalposts?
Sky Sports HD costs me £15 per month.
and how much does the Sky base package cost?
NowTV annual sports passes can usually be had for £180-200 per year around the time the F1 season and football seasons start. It's great value if you're into more than just football or F1. For me it's 100% worth it.
That wasn't the case this year it was £29 a month..
The F1 forums are not happy with the NowTV offer - £18 a month for just the F1 channel, it was £10 last year.
There are rumours of clubs having 2nd thoughts. Specifically Chelsea and City.
When did you last go to a game, Leon?
10 years ago? Maybe more
What the F does it matter. I was a passionate - and I mean PASSIONATE fan as a kid - I would attend reserve matches of my local club - reserves! in the 4th division! - and I adored LEEDS as my big club. Travelled by train age 14 to see them at Anfield, what a day!
I was mad on club football into my 20s, then became a more detached fan, focusing more on the premiership football I like - on TV - and to this day I always watch as much euro and World Cup as I can. And UCL, I love a good competitive UCL game, the drama and energy. The mediocrity of the England national team has been a constant source of sincere pain to me, and it still is
My little home team was promoted three times and relegated the same - 3 times - in my youth. I know the pain and anguish, the joy and exhilaration. Promotion and relegation are VITAL to English football. So I can see the horror of the ESL for what it is
Yes yes, jumpers for goalposts, but all this is true. I grew up with footie and it is in my DNA even if I haven't been to an EPL game since 2000 and whatever
So you have enjoyed football at all levels.
Can you summarise for me succintly (big ask, I know) what your objection to this is. What is it going to do to the game you say you love.
You don't understand football, otherwise you would know instinctively. There's no point
But I'll have one more heave: closed shop. No relegation. Hideous. If you don't grasp this intuitively you do not comprehend football and I suggest you stop talking about it
"No relegation".
The domestic leagues will continue with relegation and promotion, etc. What's so bad about Liverpool also playing Real Madrid on a Wednesday evening.
You have literally no idea what you are talking about.
FFS you minge-head there's no relegation for the "founding fathers"
So just shut your damn mouth now
LOL. "you mong". I see you are harking back to your jumpers for goalposts time as a lad watching Aston Rovers in 1906 with your father.
So what if there is no relegation for the "founding fathers"? What does that even mean? Each year those teams will compete to win the league (if it's not a knockout competition). Who cares that there is no relegation? You get to see those teams play to see who's the best.
Be honest, you've never watched a football match in your life, have you? Not in the flesh?
You've never been to a league ground, paid money, and watched a game.
Anyone who has, instinctively gets the problem here, which is why 99% of people who watch football understand and hate the ESL idea. It's very telling that you don't
The interesting thing about this conversation, amongst the abuse, is that @TOPPING is, I think, inadvertently channelling the view of the American backers of the scheme - who come from a culture in which a competition is concocted from the top down - and therefore genuinely don't understand why anyone would see relegation as important. The idea of starting from the bottom and working your way gradually upwards just doesn't happen in American sport.
And so the backers, like, I think, Topping, unless he's trolling, genuinely don't understand the nature of the opposition to this. They genuinely view fans as customers.
I say this not as a criticism of either Topping or the American owners, just as a reflection that there is an important lack of understanding amongst some people with a surprisingly large stake in all this of how European (British?) sports fans view sports.
I am perfectly aware of the importance of "working your way up". But this is a separate league. Teams will still be able to work their way up to the top of the EPL. But it won't be with those top six clubs. So the fans of those top six clubs will be disappointed not to win the EPL. But that is down to UEFA.
Oh, well possibly we agree. Apologies if I was misrepresenting you. My position is that the super league is stupid, because closed shop and no relegation. The EPL is not stupid, because not closed shop. Therefore, the super league will start out dull and get duller, and its attraction will dwindle in a way that those from a different sporting culture don't understand. The EPL will be fine without the big six (who can't really be allowed to stay and play their second string sides). It'll lose some money initially, but that's no bad thing for the consumer, and it'll be fine in the long run.
Yes I think that's right the only big question mark being will the ESL get duller and duller? Not sure. Perhaps. But I'm guessing it could be like the Harlem Globetrotters. Or those clubs will go all out to be as good and competitive as possible in the ESL and it will be cracking football.
I do think it introduces all kinds of distortions. Clubs will have bad years. In the EPL, for most of the season there's something in play for most of the clubs. Title might be beyond reach (from the start for most clubs!) but Champions League and Europa are the things at stake for the better performing clubs; relegation is a possibility for all that are too far down to have a shout at those. Sure, towards the end of the season there are some mid-table dead games, but not for that many clubs for that long.
So, Arsenal drift a bit (it's common, I'm a fan of almost four decades, I know how it goes...). They're not on form to take the title. But they can't get relegated. Who gives a shit any more? I'd still be interested in tuning in to see them hopefully give Spurs a kicking and Man U or Liverpool for old times sake, but watching them get thumped by Real while going through the motions? Yawn. I'd rather be off watching a new Woolwich Arsenal battling it out with Manchester Reunited in the lower leagues.
Now, your global audience that doesn't really have a strong team attachment and just wants to wach good footie? They'll likely lap it up. It probably will be commercially successful. But for those of us who support our father's team, who never 'chose' our team? Well, that club will no longer exist. But then, maybe it already doesn't.
Well first I think it already doesn't. In the absence of anyone previously putting up any coherent argument against the ESL I put one up myself and came to the conclusion that it could be that as no one can get booted out, no one makes an effort and, as you say, the "quality" (eye of the beholder) dwindles and dwindles. But again as you say, that is fine because people will either not (pay to) watch it or will.
And my guess is that there may be some incentive structure to ensure that the clubs really do want to win it. And I've got to believe that if "your" team was playing you would want them to beat Real, Spurs, etc.
I always want to beat Spurs
I can say from experience, that in European competitions when it doesn't matter (i.e. we've already lost enough to know we're not going to progress from the group stages) then I've little to no interest in Arsenal playing $randomeuropeanclub. That does also happen towards the end of the EPL season if there's little at stake, but the list of clubs I'd just like us to beat in any game is longer. And there's normally something at stake - even if we're comfortable in a Champions League place, there's still finishing third above Spurs, for example.
The trouble here, for me, is towards the end of the ESL season and we can't win the title, we can't get relegated, we're playing one of the non-England clubs. Who cares? Answer, probably still plenty of people worldwide to make a killing on the TV rights, and them caring much more than say Arsenal versus Burnley in a dead rubber in the EPL.
I do think it will be commercially successful. FWIW I don't think the government should intervene (I can't really see the grounds for doing so without opening up interesting cans of worms). I don't think I'd have a great deal of interest in it.
You are asking the right questions and answering them! Arsenal aren't going to be relegated although I wouldn't put it past them and dead rubbers are dead rubbers. I don't care about those games you mention whether in the CL or the EPL although let's not forget that right now, Arsenal would be the Burnley of the ESL. But for those competing for top spot would want to make it competitive and that is what marks it out from a group stage competition.
Will it be commercially successful? Who knows. The boys and girls at JP have presumably crunched the numbers and will not either be surprised to see the fans' reaction. But it should rest on that - commercial success or otherwise, not the govt.
I think it is worth pointing out that at this moment in time - with between 5 and 7 gams left to play for each team in the PL, there is nota single team that currently does not have a mathematical chance of either being relegated or securing one of the European spots.
More realistically there are probably only 7 teams which are probably safe from relegation but are unlikely to make a European spot.
If you remove the opportunity to play in Europe that massively diminishes the PL as a league and does terrible damage to football in England.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
Whilst we are on politics and football......about 24 months and £100m of client losses too late, the govt is now going to have a look at how Football Index worked.
A truly amazing statement from the guy at Real Madrid
"In an interview with Spanish TV, the Super League and Real Madrid chairman Florentino Perez insisted expulsion from the Champions League would not happen, and even suggested that matches could be shortened from 90 minutes to attract younger viewers."
What, so the ESL is going to own football, and they can change fundamental rules however they like, just because, and without consultation. They are the Founding Fathers....
As players' salary escalation appears to be at the root of the problems which led to this wild scheme, why not try seven a side....
Players are paid a lot because that's how the market works - you can look at the NFL where the wages of the top players make all footballers (except say Messi) look like paupers.
Really? NFL aren't paid as highly as NBA. This article suggests the top NFL player as ninth. Below Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar and some NBA.
NFL pays big bucks for a few key positions, the rest they are paid less than footballers. Its partly because you need 50 players on a team and partly because 300 pound, 6ft 5 lumps are a bit interchangeable.
NBA gets the biggest bucks as only 10-12 players on a team, even less than football that need squads of 25-30 players and each position is rather specialist ie. Find somebody 7ft tall that can actually play basketball is incredibly difficult, I think some crazy stat like 10% of all 7ft and over men in the US have played in the NBA.
Am very surprised to see how much baseball has fallen behind. Although sheer comparative length of career makes up for it.
Didnt baseball kind of shoot its own golden hen when they went on strike some years ago?
Watch Season 4 of Brockmire for a sense of where baseball is going.
Must confess. It is the only US sport I followed. Was yesterday it suddenly occurred that the season must have started...
Yep. And they are allowing some in stadium fans too. Not that many, though.
It's strikeout, walk or swing for the fence these days. Little fielding, base stealing or bunting. Very samey. And each game seems longer than the last.
I miss the Derek Jeter Yankees nickel and dimming their way to big run numbers.
Smallball is just more fun. Ichiro Suzuki leading off with yet another slapped single setting up the inning.
Ichirooooooooooooooooo, what a player in the noughties.
Was a huge star in the 90's in Japan too. Had he played those 9 years in the States he'd hold the record for career hits.
The cost of flights from India to the UK have rocketed as families rush to avoid tough hotel quarantine regulations from 4am on Friday. Some tickets have gone up five times from £400 for an economy seat to £2,000.
Indra Travel chairman Suresh Kumar said: “People are concerned and desperate to get back and in a frenzy. A normal £400 economy seat from Delhi is [now] anything up to £2,000. Even if you go for business or first class, there are not many around. They are over £3,000."
There are reportedly 42 flights due to come to the UK over the coming week and a total of 10,965 passengers if they are all full.
Bring forward the rules and quarantine them anyway.
@TOPPING it devalues the entire English game. The whole point of the entire pyramid is that any team can in theory rise to the top, based purely on sporting success. This prevents that.
This is a battle of business v sport. American sporting culture vs European sporting culture.
Furthermore it will devalue the TV rights to the Premier League and by consequence devalue the "solidarity" payments made to the rest of the Football League.
And I note your concern that the rights to the EPL might be devalued. Perish the thought.
That devolution means that less money goes down the league and so smaller clubs already struggling go bust.
But you don't get that do you.
So now we are all in favour of Sky's multi-billion dollar TV rights package for which you pay £70/month?
What happened to jumpers for goalposts?
Sky Sports HD costs me £15 per month.
and how much does the Sky base package cost?
NowTV annual sports passes can usually be had for £180-200 per year around the time the F1 season and football seasons start. It's great value if you're into more than just football or F1. For me it's 100% worth it.
That wasn't the case this year it was £29 a month..
The F1 forums are not happy with the NowTV offer - £18 a month for just the F1 channel, it was £10 last year.
supply/demand?
Got to cover the costs somehow - and given that I prefer the C4 coverage I'm happy to avoid seeing what happened and watching the highlights in the evening.
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
It looks like the Stupid Six have broken EPL rules
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
I hope the FA have hinted that the 14 clubs resigning would be looked at favourable were that required.
Could the PL not dissolve itself and then re-invite all 20 clubs under new terms that they must be part of the FA/UEFA/FIFA pyramid to take part? That makes the most sense to me and I'm not sure how anyone can stop a private company from doing that if the 6 clubs don't like it then they would have to actually form a rival domestic league as well which would also sit outside of the FA pyramid.
I assume there would be contractual problems with that — where the PL have agreements with third parties.
Wouldn't the contracts go down with the ship?
I'm not 100% sure But I probably should know, as my new job will probably cover this area...
My main first thought is that rights holders such as SKY and BT would not be happy, and any new deals would likely be at a significant lower rate, so the PL teams themselves would not be happy.
Rock and a hard place.
It depends, I think if the move was done to ensure the big six can't simply break the current format of top 4/6 being one of the major parts of the yearly campaign then I'm pretty sure they'd be on board as it probably protects the TV money in the long term. The alternative is a slow death.
There are rumours of clubs having 2nd thoughts. Specifically Chelsea and City.
When did you last go to a game, Leon?
10 years ago? Maybe more
What the F does it matter. I was a passionate - and I mean PASSIONATE fan as a kid - I would attend reserve matches of my local club - reserves! in the 4th division! - and I adored LEEDS as my big club. Travelled by train age 14 to see them at Anfield, what a day!
I was mad on club football into my 20s, then became a more detached fan, focusing more on the premiership football I like - on TV - and to this day I always watch as much euro and World Cup as I can. And UCL, I love a good competitive UCL game, the drama and energy. The mediocrity of the England national team has been a constant source of sincere pain to me, and it still is
My little home team was promoted three times and relegated the same - 3 times - in my youth. I know the pain and anguish, the joy and exhilaration. Promotion and relegation are VITAL to English football. So I can see the horror of the ESL for what it is
Yes yes, jumpers for goalposts, but all this is true. I grew up with footie and it is in my DNA even if I haven't been to an EPL game since 2000 and whatever
So you have enjoyed football at all levels.
Can you summarise for me succintly (big ask, I know) what your objection to this is. What is it going to do to the game you say you love.
You don't understand football, otherwise you would know instinctively. There's no point
But I'll have one more heave: closed shop. No relegation. Hideous. If you don't grasp this intuitively you do not comprehend football and I suggest you stop talking about it
"No relegation".
The domestic leagues will continue with relegation and promotion, etc. What's so bad about Liverpool also playing Real Madrid on a Wednesday evening.
You have literally no idea what you are talking about.
FFS you minge-head there's no relegation for the "founding fathers"
So just shut your damn mouth now
LOL. "you mong". I see you are harking back to your jumpers for goalposts time as a lad watching Aston Rovers in 1906 with your father.
So what if there is no relegation for the "founding fathers"? What does that even mean? Each year those teams will compete to win the league (if it's not a knockout competition). Who cares that there is no relegation? You get to see those teams play to see who's the best.
Be honest, you've never watched a football match in your life, have you? Not in the flesh?
You've never been to a league ground, paid money, and watched a game.
Anyone who has, instinctively gets the problem here, which is why 99% of people who watch football understand and hate the ESL idea. It's very telling that you don't
The interesting thing about this conversation, amongst the abuse, is that @TOPPING is, I think, inadvertently channelling the view of the American backers of the scheme - who come from a culture in which a competition is concocted from the top down - and therefore genuinely don't understand why anyone would see relegation as important. The idea of starting from the bottom and working your way gradually upwards just doesn't happen in American sport.
And so the backers, like, I think, Topping, unless he's trolling, genuinely don't understand the nature of the opposition to this. They genuinely view fans as customers.
I say this not as a criticism of either Topping or the American owners, just as a reflection that there is an important lack of understanding amongst some people with a surprisingly large stake in all this of how European (British?) sports fans view sports.
I am perfectly aware of the importance of "working your way up". But this is a separate league. Teams will still be able to work their way up to the top of the EPL. But it won't be with those top six clubs. So the fans of those top six clubs will be disappointed not to win the EPL. But that is down to UEFA.
Oh, well possibly we agree. Apologies if I was misrepresenting you. My position is that the super league is stupid, because closed shop and no relegation. The EPL is not stupid, because not closed shop. Therefore, the super league will start out dull and get duller, and its attraction will dwindle in a way that those from a different sporting culture don't understand. The EPL will be fine without the big six (who can't really be allowed to stay and play their second string sides). It'll lose some money initially, but that's no bad thing for the consumer, and it'll be fine in the long run.
Yes I think that's right the only big question mark being will the ESL get duller and duller? Not sure. Perhaps. But I'm guessing it could be like the Harlem Globetrotters. Or those clubs will go all out to be as good and competitive as possible in the ESL and it will be cracking football.
I do think it introduces all kinds of distortions. Clubs will have bad years. In the EPL, for most of the season there's something in play for most of the clubs. Title might be beyond reach (from the start for most clubs!) but Champions League and Europa are the things at stake for the better performing clubs; relegation is a possibility for all that are too far down to have a shout at those. Sure, towards the end of the season there are some mid-table dead games, but not for that many clubs for that long.
So, Arsenal drift a bit (it's common, I'm a fan of almost four decades, I know how it goes...). They're not on form to take the title. But they can't get relegated. Who gives a shit any more? I'd still be interested in tuning in to see them hopefully give Spurs a kicking and Man U or Liverpool for old times sake, but watching them get thumped by Real while going through the motions? Yawn. I'd rather be off watching a new Woolwich Arsenal battling it out with Manchester Reunited in the lower leagues.
Now, your global audience that doesn't really have a strong team attachment and just wants to wach good footie? They'll likely lap it up. It probably will be commercially successful. But for those of us who support our father's team, who never 'chose' our team? Well, that club will no longer exist. But then, maybe it already doesn't.
Also, I'm with Philip. Add relegation and it doesn't really matter, particularly if the teams stay in their national leagues too (and that's the route for getting back in once relegated). It's champions league on steroids and I don't really care whether UEFA run the champions league or the clubs do as, to be frank, I'm not that invested in the champions league. I'll watch it. If my team's doing well I'll watch it with interest/excitement, but I can take it or leave it otherwise.
The issue is that relegation is the one thing these clubs cannot risk or stand - they need a static league without fear of dropping out to generate the income / profits they think they deserve.
Was it Leeds who got an American chairman a decade or so ago, who had to have it explained to him literally hundreds of times by different members of staff what a “relegation battle” was?
He genuinely thought he’d bought a “Premier League Franchise” and didn’t understand the pyramid at all - which was brought home to him when his team did indeed get relagated.
Whilst we are on politics and football......about 24 months and £100m of client losses too late, the govt is now going to have a look at how Football Index worked.
As Football Index dies, along comes Sorare.....with the invention of the blockchain, all these companies are finding creative ways around calling themselves gambling companies and thus able to avoid the relevant legislation.
Sorare is marketed as an "NFT" card collecting game, but in reality its another gambling game.
Boris going for it. He can see the open goal. He shoots....
Alex Wickham @alexwickham · 3m New: Boris Johnson threatens breakaway clubs with new laws to block Super League
He’s told the FA and Premier League no action is off the table and the govt is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure the proposals are stopped
In a few days, this will look seriously, seriously stupid.
Why does this remind me of your prediction last November that Boris congratulating Biden on winning the presidency would backfire terribly once it became clear that Trump was the real winner?
WOW do you check my backposts?
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
No, I have this thing called a 'memory' - if you employed yours, you might recall the number of times you've been dead wrong in the past and use that to inform your current predictions.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
Dead wrong about Trump? Me and millions of other punters. that the best you got treacle? How many more were wrong about remain in 2016? FFS.
The reason my posting riles you is like all the other fake tories on here, and out there, you fear being undermined from the right, you fear being called out on the wholesale departure of the Johnson government from any form of conservatism whatsoever.
Well suck it up bucko, because I intend to keep sticking it to you and all the other pant wetting pinko tories going. Particularly you. I live to stick it to you.
So buy in the nappies matey.
Lol. I very much look forward to Reform sticking it to us in May, assuming of course that that prediction doesn't work out like all your others.
Comments
FGFootball
@fgfootball_
·
2m
Red circleBREAKING: Liverpool captain Jordan Henderson has called an emergency meeting of the Premier League captains to discuss a response to the Super League.
(@MikeKeegan_DM)
However, there is another more disturbing angle.
Armed robberies at players' houses have become quite common.
Players with young families might not want to risk the aggro. Their families have lives too.
Of course we heard ad nauseam from a cohort of posters that Biden was going to sweep Florida, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, North Carolina, Even Kentucky.
All total Bullsh8t of course, but strangely you are selective in remembering the track record of many.
Barry Hearn replaced by son Eddie as chairman of Matchroom - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/56808972
I'm saying they could, in response to a question as to what could they do.
Just because someone can do something doesn't mean they should.
Most people didn't care and gave it little thought. It was therefore not considered an important issue.
The minority cared immensely.
Votes moved because of that strength of feeling.
https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford/status/1384494671129301002/photo/1
The players are rebelling
Surely you of all people can see the plan...
terms of physical goods (you know, the sort of stuff most affected by Brexit), the RUK/EU split in your figures is 50/50., so both were equally valuable.
Services make up the majority of the 60% you and HYUFD are so fond of quoting - mutuial recognition of professional qualification and other standards will quickly solve most of these - or do you think e.g. UK registered architects will be permanently prevented from working in Europe?
Financial services on their own count for one-fifth of your 60% figure - are you seriously suggesting the City of London will accept permanent serious and significant barriers to trading with the EU? An insurance or mortgage contract doesn't need expensive phytosanitary inspections and approvals.
PS don't forget the £5.5 billion of utilities, mainly electricity keeping your lights on, or are you pinning your hopes and plans on expensive nuclear power iprovided by foreign companies and governments?
And don't even get me started on the ridiculous notion that the sharing of Debt and its servicing costs will be anything like the £3.5 billion shown in GERS.
It helps that your pronouncement that day was the most batshit insane thing you had said up to that point, so it made quite an impression on me. I'm sure I said so at the time.
Quote
During a December 2019 survey conducted by Capgemini, 15 percent of respondents from the United Kingdom stated that they were avid sports fans.
source
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1100593/avid-sports-fans-country/
Couldn't find one specifically on football but I think we can assume the vast bulk of that 15% are football fans
And each game seems longer than the last.
=>
“Neither does anyone else”
=>
“This isn’t important to voters”
=>
“Governments should be doing something else”.
There’s a good reason why Boris Johnson has an 80 seat majority in Parliament and you are just an anonymous troll on the internet.
I can say from experience, that in European competitions when it doesn't matter (i.e. we've already lost enough to know we're not going to progress from the group stages) then I've little to no interest in Arsenal playing $randomeuropeanclub. That does also happen towards the end of the EPL season if there's little at stake, but the list of clubs I'd just like us to beat in any game is longer. And there's normally something at stake - even if we're comfortable in a Champions League place, there's still finishing third above Spurs, for example.
The trouble here, for me, is towards the end of the ESL season and we can't win the title, we can't get relegated, we're playing one of the non-England clubs. Who cares? Answer, probably still plenty of people worldwide to make a killing on the TV rights, and them caring much more than say Arsenal versus Burnley in a dead rubber in the EPL.
I do think it will be commercially successful. FWIW I don't think the government should intervene (I can't really see the grounds for doing so without opening up interesting cans of worms). I don't think I'd have a great deal of interest in it.
I don't know how feasible it is, but at that point I wouldn't care and it would be up to the players if they wanted sign for the ESL club but be ineligible for international football and play few to no domestic matches and eventually deal with the fact that these games would likely be played in Asia in front of plastic crowds.
The Premier League, alongside The FA, met with clubs today to discuss the immediate implications of the Super League proposal.
The 14 clubs at the meeting unanimously and vigorously rejected the plans for the competition.
The Premier League is considering all actions available to prevent it from progressing, as well as holding those Shareholders involved to account under its rules.
The League will continue to work with key stakeholders including fan groups, Government, UEFA, The FA, EFL, PFA and LMA to protect the best interests of the game and call on those clubs involved in the proposed competition to cease their involvement immediately.
The Premier League would like to thank fans and all stakeholders for the support they have shown this week on this significant issue.
The reaction proves just how much our open pyramid and football community means to people.
https://www.premierleague.com/news/2112093
And that's just the AVID ones. I would probably not call myself "avid" - not like I was as a boy - but I do enjoy sport a lot
So there's maybe 10-20 million more like me?
Of course the government is gonna get involved
Will it be commercially successful? Who knows. The boys and girls at JP have presumably crunched the numbers and will not either be surprised to see the fans' reaction. But it should rest on that - commercial success or otherwise, not the govt.
The reason my posting riles you is like all the other fake tories on here, and out there, you fear being undermined from the right, you fear being called out on the wholesale departure of the Johnson government from any form of conservatism whatsoever.
Well suck it up bucko, because I intend to keep sticking it to you and all the other pant wetting pinko tories going. Particularly you. I live to stick it to you.
So buy in the nappies matey.
I did look at the Premier League's rules yesterday and I couldn't see anything obvious but that probably meant I wasn't looking in the correct place.
Football Daily
@footballdaily
The Premier League have reminded the clubs of their rules following the 'European Super League'
"Clubs need the prior written approval of the board during the season before they enter in to a competition that is not previously acknowledged by them or the FA.""
No idea what the sanction might be. Perhaps expulsion? Demotion?
https://twitter.com/footballdaily/status/1384500676097495040?s=20
ESL files injunctions to prevent player and club bans
“He flew to Edinburgh because he was doing a visit to Edinburgh airport…now, you know, we can all make personal choices […] we all have time limit on our time […] I’ve seen plenty of photographs and pictures of Keir on trains during the election campaign.”
https://order-order.com/2021/04/20/shadow-digital-secretary-defends-starmers-campaign-flight-to-edinburgh/
The obviously read PB and saw us taking the piss out of his identical train pics and thought they needed to mix it up.
If 14 resign they could easily set up next season playing each other three times for one season only. But then TV contracts...
All sounds a bit like Donald Trump. Just take legal action at every stage.
My main first thought is that rights holders such as SKY and BT would not be happy, and any new deals would likely be at a significant lower rate, so the PL teams themselves would not be happy.
Rock and a hard place.
Their problem is individual teams backing down, especially - at the moment - in England
Though I very much doubt they expected this onslaught against them
More realistically there are probably only 7 teams which are probably safe from relegation but are unlikely to make a European spot.
If you remove the opportunity to play in Europe that massively diminishes the PL as a league and does terrible damage to football in England.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-launch-independent-review-into-collapse-of-football-gambling-firm
Had he played those 9 years in the States he'd hold the record for career hits.
He genuinely thought he’d bought a “Premier League Franchise” and didn’t understand the pyramid at all - which was brought home to him when his team did indeed get relagated.
Sorare is marketed as an "NFT" card collecting game, but in reality its another gambling game.