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The Hartlepool by-election is a must win for both Johnson and Starmer – politicalbetting.com

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  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718

    Neil Oliver:

    "King Kong could walk arm in arm with Godzilla, followed by the Avengers, pursued by Thanos, with the heavenly host in attendance and playing the Battle Hymn of the Republic and Nicola Sturgeon would neither see nor hear it or be able to recall it the following day."

    Not quite true: she would brazenly lie that she had neither seen nor heard nor could recall it.

    Sturgeon has become the most dishonest politician in the UK. Quite an award that, Nicola...
    Especially given the competition in Downing Street. Personally I think he still has that title.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    rcs1000 said:

    The more ways you look at this, the dumber the EU's response becomes.

    (1) They have no real hold over the UK, as the UK has ample orders of vaccines. Even if they did cut off Pfizer, the UK has Moderna and Novavax and J&J coming in the next couple of months, combined with ever greater production of AZ.

    (2) Every threat of an export ban, makes it less likely that pharmaceutical companies will want to invest in the EU. And right now, you want pharmaceutical companies to be building vaccine production capacity.

    (3) They're pissing off a whole bunch of allies.

    (4) And they're not even ending up with any more vaccines (and quite possibly less) than they would have had before.

    It's time for the EU Parliament to step up and depose UvdL.

    Except, it poses a real problem for the EU: where are they going to find a leader who is worse?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,254
    But a different perspective from a German politician:

    https://twitter.com/berndlange/status/1372174769412583430?s=20
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Leon said:

    Charles said:

    Do what we say or we'll hit you.

    That's "partnership"?
    Has Dave "Keating" worked out what the second proposal actually entails?

    It is the EU stopping exports of vaccines to us, unless the UK deliberately slows down it's vaccine roll out, by redirecting supplies of AZ, meant for the UK, to the EU: thus depleting the UK stock. These supplies were paid for by British taxpayers, developed by a part British company, and lawfully contracted in a clever way by the British government.

    It means the UK inflicting unnecessary death and disease on Britons, to please the EU, and help them hide their mistakes

    No UK government could ever do this, and survive, they'd get lynched (maybe literally). So if Dave is right, the EU is about to ask for something it must know is impossible. It is a threat with no purpose, tho I suppose when the UK refuses they might feel better about stopping Pfizer deliveries to us
    They are also deliberately referencing the Trump "America First" slogan...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    rcs1000 said:

    The more ways you look at this, the dumber the EU's response becomes.

    (1) They have no real hold over the UK, as the UK has ample orders of vaccines. Even if they did cut off Pfizer, the UK has Moderna and Novavax and J&J coming in the next couple of months, combined with ever greater production of AZ.

    (2) Every threat of an export ban, makes it less likely that pharmaceutical companies will want to invest in the EU. And right now, you want pharmaceutical companies to be building vaccine production capacity.

    (3) They're pissing off a whole bunch of allies.

    (4) And they're not even ending up with any more vaccines (and quite possibly less) than they would have had before.

    It's time for the EU Parliament to step up and depose UvdL.

    Yes, between AZ and Novavax alone the UK has got integrated domestic manufacturing and supply of 160m doses with AZ aiming for 30m per month and Novavax aiming for 20m per month of manufacturing capacity.

    This whole thing seems to be driven by the bitterness of a jilted ex. One that can't handle seeing their ex move on from the bad break up.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    Back from a beautiful couple of hours walking on the southern edge of Dartmoor.

    Dog is trashed. But gotta get that lockdown lard off, lad.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The Scottish government couldn't run a whelk store. The idea that they think they can run a railway is, well, alarming.
    The Scottish government won't be running a railway.

    1 Successive private operators have screwed it up - National Express then First Group. And now Abellio where the Dutch taxpayer is no longer willing to subsidise Scottish trains
    2 The Abellio franchise was announced in 2019 as terminating 3 years early in 2022 - this is the point where the franchisee cannot meet the additional "cap and collar" payments required
    3 Like most of the rest of the former rail franchises during Covid it cannot continue with minimal fares, so it is ending now and being replaced by an Abellio-run management concession until 2022
    4 Like most of the rest of the former rail franchises it will then be "nationalised". Which means it will be run by the Operator of Last Resort - a Limited company that in Scotland will be wholly owned by Transport Scotland as opposed to the English version which is wholly owned by the DfT
    5 As with the English version this "nationalised" operator is a private sector consortium of Arup, Ernst & Young and SNC Lavalin Rail
    6 As with other OLR operations the existing management largely stick around, just with new bosses.
    And the taxpayer underwrites the inevitable losses. Joy.
    We are ALREADY underwriting the losses! If you tried to run Scotrail commercially you'd shut most of it down. The subsidy cost of passenger rail operations is roughly 5x what it was when BR was run as a commercial operation in the late 80s/early 90s. Intercity was the only profitable long-distance passenger operator in the world.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    Neil Oliver:

    "King Kong could walk arm in arm with Godzilla, followed by the Avengers, pursued by Thanos, with the heavenly host in attendance and playing the Battle Hymn of the Republic and Nicola Sturgeon would neither see nor hear it or be able to recall it the following day."

    Not quite true: she would brazenly lie that she had neither seen nor heard nor could recall it.

    Sturgeon has become the most dishonest politician in the UK. Quite an award that, Nicola...
    Er, not quite. She can try, she can put her heart & soul into it, but one man - a politician known throughout the land by just a single name - stands atop Mendacity Mountain and will never be deposed. Not in our lifetime.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959

    Neil Oliver:

    "King Kong could walk arm in arm with Godzilla, followed by the Avengers, pursued by Thanos, with the heavenly host in attendance and playing the Battle Hymn of the Republic and Nicola Sturgeon would neither see nor hear it or be able to recall it the following day."

    Not quite true: she would brazenly lie that she had neither seen nor heard nor could recall it.

    Sturgeon has become the most dishonest politician in the UK. Quite an award that, Nicola...
    Especially given the competition in Downing Street. Personally I think he still has that title.
    I really don't. There's still that cheeky grin from Boris, the acknowledgement he knows "you're not really buying this, are you?"

    No such acknowledgment from Sturgeon. She just ploughs on with the lie.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The Scottish government couldn't run a whelk store. The idea that they think they can run a railway is, well, alarming.
    The Scottish government won't be running a railway.

    1 Successive private operators have screwed it up - National Express then First Group. And now Abellio where the Dutch taxpayer is no longer willing to subsidise Scottish trains
    2 The Abellio franchise was announced in 2019 as terminating 3 years early in 2022 - this is the point where the franchisee cannot meet the additional "cap and collar" payments required
    3 Like most of the rest of the former rail franchises during Covid it cannot continue with minimal fares, so it is ending now and being replaced by an Abellio-run management concession until 2022
    4 Like most of the rest of the former rail franchises it will then be "nationalised". Which means it will be run by the Operator of Last Resort - a Limited company that in Scotland will be wholly owned by Transport Scotland as opposed to the English version which is wholly owned by the DfT
    5 As with the English version this "nationalised" operator is a private sector consortium of Arup, Ernst & Young and SNC Lavalin Rail
    6 As with other OLR operations the existing management largely stick around, just with new bosses.
    And the taxpayer underwrites the inevitable losses. Joy.
    We are ALREADY underwriting the losses! If you tried to run Scotrail commercially you'd shut most of it down. The subsidy cost of passenger rail operations is roughly 5x what it was when BR was run as a commercial operation in the late 80s/early 90s. Intercity was the only profitable long-distance passenger operator in the world.
    No, at the moment we are subsidising a lot of routes but the trading losses which accrue despite that subsidy are not our problem. After this they will be.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,254

    rcs1000 said:

    The more ways you look at this, the dumber the EU's response becomes.

    (1) They have no real hold over the UK, as the UK has ample orders of vaccines. Even if they did cut off Pfizer, the UK has Moderna and Novavax and J&J coming in the next couple of months, combined with ever greater production of AZ.

    (2) Every threat of an export ban, makes it less likely that pharmaceutical companies will want to invest in the EU. And right now, you want pharmaceutical companies to be building vaccine production capacity.

    (3) They're pissing off a whole bunch of allies.

    (4) And they're not even ending up with any more vaccines (and quite possibly less) than they would have had before.

    It's time for the EU Parliament to step up and depose UvdL.

    The problem goes deeper than UvdL. Lots of CDU politicians in Germany are egging her on to be even 'tougher'.
    There is a real possibility the EU will do *something* that looks like an export ban.

    It will be stupid and counter-productive, and potentially dangerous for all, but the pressure on them to act tough and make selfish decisions, even if they are idiotic, is quite intense.

    This is the same continent that has just suspended use of a vaccine they all know is excellent and safe, during a deadly plague. They are capable of anything right now. And they consistently choose the worst option.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884
    And we should do that why?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,254

    Back from a beautiful couple of hours walking on the southern edge of Dartmoor.

    Dog is trashed. But gotta get that lockdown lard off, lad.

    I am now just 2 pounds over my pre-lockdown weight. God it is boring, but also worthwhile.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    Back from a beautiful couple of hours walking on the southern edge of Dartmoor.

    Dog is trashed. But gotta get that lockdown lard off, lad.

    Used to love walking around Burrator
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The more ways you look at this, the dumber the EU's response becomes.

    (1) They have no real hold over the UK, as the UK has ample orders of vaccines. Even if they did cut off Pfizer, the UK has Moderna and Novavax and J&J coming in the next couple of months, combined with ever greater production of AZ.

    (2) Every threat of an export ban, makes it less likely that pharmaceutical companies will want to invest in the EU. And right now, you want pharmaceutical companies to be building vaccine production capacity.

    (3) They're pissing off a whole bunch of allies.

    (4) And they're not even ending up with any more vaccines (and quite possibly less) than they would have had before.

    It's time for the EU Parliament to step up and depose UvdL.

    Also, THIS:

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1372172415007133697?s=20
    I love the typo in the tweet. "Deceived to EU."
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    38501 cases in France.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,199

    rcs1000 said:

    The more ways you look at this, the dumber the EU's response becomes.

    (1) They have no real hold over the UK, as the UK has ample orders of vaccines. Even if they did cut off Pfizer, the UK has Moderna and Novavax and J&J coming in the next couple of months, combined with ever greater production of AZ.

    (2) Every threat of an export ban, makes it less likely that pharmaceutical companies will want to invest in the EU. And right now, you want pharmaceutical companies to be building vaccine production capacity.

    (3) They're pissing off a whole bunch of allies.

    (4) And they're not even ending up with any more vaccines (and quite possibly less) than they would have had before.

    It's time for the EU Parliament to step up and depose UvdL.

    The problem goes deeper than UvdL. Lots of CDU politicians in Germany are egging her on to be even 'tougher'.
    Yep, typical rightwing tactics: the politics of grievance and imaginary foreign enemies.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,997
    maaarsh said:

    DavidL said:

    Cases still (just) trending down (despite tests still being through the roof):


    Does anyone else think our testing is getting just a little out of hand? That's getting up to 1 in 6 of the entire adult population in 7 days.
    It's farsically disproportionate at this point. People keep making the err case that if it's finding any cases it's worth it, but we're now running millions of tests which miss the majority of cases, spreading false confidence, whilst simultaneously generating thousands of false positives with very real costs to whole households locked up for 10 days.

    It's just a shame deaths reporting is so lagged that it's going to take quite a while for many people to accept this is over and they can stop making utterly insane cost benefit decisions on the grounds of emergency.
    They are almost all LFTs of schoolkids and teachers. Will be interesting to see what happens to the positivity rate during the Easter holidays when presumably we won't be doing most of them.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The more ways you look at this, the dumber the EU's response becomes.

    (1) They have no real hold over the UK, as the UK has ample orders of vaccines. Even if they did cut off Pfizer, the UK has Moderna and Novavax and J&J coming in the next couple of months, combined with ever greater production of AZ.

    (2) Every threat of an export ban, makes it less likely that pharmaceutical companies will want to invest in the EU. And right now, you want pharmaceutical companies to be building vaccine production capacity.

    (3) They're pissing off a whole bunch of allies.

    (4) And they're not even ending up with any more vaccines (and quite possibly less) than they would have had before.

    It's time for the EU Parliament to step up and depose UvdL.

    The problem goes deeper than UvdL. Lots of CDU politicians in Germany are egging her on to be even 'tougher'.
    There is a real possibility the EU will do *something* that looks like an export ban.

    It will be stupid and counter-productive, and potentially dangerous for all, but the pressure on them to act tough and make selfish decisions, even if they are idiotic, is quite intense.

    This is the same continent that has just suspended use of a vaccine they all know is excellent and safe, during a deadly plague. They are capable of anything right now. And they consistently choose the worst option.
    That's not quite true.

    The Danes, the Belgians, the Czechs and the Poles (and some other) are all still using AZ. (Denmark stopped and has restarted.)
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    And we should do that why?
    This seems to spring to mind

    image

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959

    And we should do that why?
    Because of the epic fuck-up by the EU of course.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    That can’t be right. He campaigned as leader of the Labour Party at two elections where they said they’d retain Trident. I saw them say it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The more ways you look at this, the dumber the EU's response becomes.

    (1) They have no real hold over the UK, as the UK has ample orders of vaccines. Even if they did cut off Pfizer, the UK has Moderna and Novavax and J&J coming in the next couple of months, combined with ever greater production of AZ.

    (2) Every threat of an export ban, makes it less likely that pharmaceutical companies will want to invest in the EU. And right now, you want pharmaceutical companies to be building vaccine production capacity.

    (3) They're pissing off a whole bunch of allies.

    (4) And they're not even ending up with any more vaccines (and quite possibly less) than they would have had before.

    It's time for the EU Parliament to step up and depose UvdL.

    The problem goes deeper than UvdL. Lots of CDU politicians in Germany are egging her on to be even 'tougher'.
    There is a real possibility the EU will do *something* that looks like an export ban.

    It will be stupid and counter-productive, and potentially dangerous for all, but the pressure on them to act tough and make selfish decisions, even if they are idiotic, is quite intense.

    This is the same continent that has just suspended use of a vaccine they all know is excellent and safe, during a deadly plague. They are capable of anything right now. And they consistently choose the worst option.
    That's not quite true.

    The Danes, the Belgians, the Czechs and the Poles (and some other) are all still using AZ. (Denmark stopped and has restarted.)
    Oddly it was Denmark that hit the big red alarm button and then decided, well actually, it's nothing but by then the other countries went a bit loopy.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    If they block Pfizer we'll simply switch wholesale to Oxford/AZ or other vaccines.

    They don't have any levers.

    But what about Brits who've had one Pfizer jab but won't get the 2nd, if the EU blocks exports? Don't know if that's a possibility, but it would be a real mess, if so.

    Incredibly, there are still some FBPE types, admittedly the ultras, who are actually cheering on the EU, to punish Britain for "being selfish", ie looking after our citizens with good contracts with pharmaceutical companies

    The word "traitor" was possibly bandied around too often during the Brexitref, but in this case, it applies. If you want the EU to stop "exporting" vaccines to us - vaccines we have lawfully purchased - you are hoping that Britons will get sick and die, in large numbers. That is treasonous.
    I suspect mixing vaccine types will result in increased efficacy rather than reduced.
    Your suspicion may be right, however a lot of ordinary Brits will be fearfully alarmed that they are getting the "wrong" second dose. Many might refuse. Chaos.
    Brits have so far proved to be pretty resilient (unlike the French) to vaccine misinformation nonsense.

    Worth noting in the US, that they've approved mixing vaccines and it doesn't seem to have led to anybody panicing.
    I can see how you could mix two adenovirus vaccines like AZ and Sputnik (not least cause the latter might just be a stolen version of the former)

    And I can see how could mix two mRNA vaccines. But one of each? That surprises me. But I am not a virologist
    They all do one thing - present antigen (a segment of the spike protein that binds to the human cell) to provoke an adaptive immune response in the body. It is just how they do that that differs:
    1. viral vector vaccines insert DNA into the human cell to create the mRNA that instructs the cell to produce the protein
    2. mRNA vaccines cut out one step and supply the cell with the mRNA to instruct protein production
    3. protein vaccines cut out another step, by directly supplying the protein.

    So yes, in theory, all three should be compatible and even complementary, with the understanding the biological systems are complex and can always surprise.
    Thanks, always good to learn stuff

    Vaccines really are amazing
    And TimT is resident Pharma Papa
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The more ways you look at this, the dumber the EU's response becomes.

    (1) They have no real hold over the UK, as the UK has ample orders of vaccines. Even if they did cut off Pfizer, the UK has Moderna and Novavax and J&J coming in the next couple of months, combined with ever greater production of AZ.

    (2) Every threat of an export ban, makes it less likely that pharmaceutical companies will want to invest in the EU. And right now, you want pharmaceutical companies to be building vaccine production capacity.

    (3) They're pissing off a whole bunch of allies.

    (4) And they're not even ending up with any more vaccines (and quite possibly less) than they would have had before.

    It's time for the EU Parliament to step up and depose UvdL.

    Yes, between AZ and Novavax alone the UK has got integrated domestic manufacturing and supply of 160m doses with AZ aiming for 30m per month and Novavax aiming for 20m per month of manufacturing capacity.

    This whole thing seems to be driven by the bitterness of a jilted ex. One that can't handle seeing their ex move on from the bad break up.
    I think the thought process is something like this:

    1. We fucked up vaccine purchasing
    2. We can't admit we fucked up vaccine purchasing.
    3. We need to look like we're doing something.
    4. This is something.

    It's like a poker player who goes "on tilt", making wilder and wilder bets in the hope of recouping losses, but in fact getting ever more irrational, and in the hole.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Is this thread as dead as EU unity?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,254
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The more ways you look at this, the dumber the EU's response becomes.

    (1) They have no real hold over the UK, as the UK has ample orders of vaccines. Even if they did cut off Pfizer, the UK has Moderna and Novavax and J&J coming in the next couple of months, combined with ever greater production of AZ.

    (2) Every threat of an export ban, makes it less likely that pharmaceutical companies will want to invest in the EU. And right now, you want pharmaceutical companies to be building vaccine production capacity.

    (3) They're pissing off a whole bunch of allies.

    (4) And they're not even ending up with any more vaccines (and quite possibly less) than they would have had before.

    It's time for the EU Parliament to step up and depose UvdL.

    The problem goes deeper than UvdL. Lots of CDU politicians in Germany are egging her on to be even 'tougher'.
    There is a real possibility the EU will do *something* that looks like an export ban.

    It will be stupid and counter-productive, and potentially dangerous for all, but the pressure on them to act tough and make selfish decisions, even if they are idiotic, is quite intense.

    This is the same continent that has just suspended use of a vaccine they all know is excellent and safe, during a deadly plague. They are capable of anything right now. And they consistently choose the worst option.
    That's not quite true.

    The Danes, the Belgians, the Czechs and the Poles (and some other) are all still using AZ. (Denmark stopped and has restarted.)
    The four biggest countries in the EU, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, have suspended AZ, in an act of co-ordinated cretinism which makes Brexit look like a smoothly executed ballet movement.

    It is highly possible the entire EU will now do something equally clownish and mad - kick off an actual vaccine war. During a plague.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The more ways you look at this, the dumber the EU's response becomes.

    (1) They have no real hold over the UK, as the UK has ample orders of vaccines. Even if they did cut off Pfizer, the UK has Moderna and Novavax and J&J coming in the next couple of months, combined with ever greater production of AZ.

    (2) Every threat of an export ban, makes it less likely that pharmaceutical companies will want to invest in the EU. And right now, you want pharmaceutical companies to be building vaccine production capacity.

    (3) They're pissing off a whole bunch of allies.

    (4) And they're not even ending up with any more vaccines (and quite possibly less) than they would have had before.

    It's time for the EU Parliament to step up and depose UvdL.

    Yes, between AZ and Novavax alone the UK has got integrated domestic manufacturing and supply of 160m doses with AZ aiming for 30m per month and Novavax aiming for 20m per month of manufacturing capacity.

    This whole thing seems to be driven by the bitterness of a jilted ex. One that can't handle seeing their ex move on from the bad break up.
    I think the thought process is something like this:

    1. We fucked up vaccine purchasing
    2. We can't admit we fucked up vaccine purchasing.
    3. We need to look like we're doing something.
    4. This is something.

    It's like a poker player who goes "on tilt", making wilder and wilder bets in the hope of recouping losses, but in fact getting ever more irrational, and in the hole.
    I didn’t know you’d played poker with me before!
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    gealbhan said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    If they block Pfizer we'll simply switch wholesale to Oxford/AZ or other vaccines.

    They don't have any levers.

    But what about Brits who've had one Pfizer jab but won't get the 2nd, if the EU blocks exports? Don't know if that's a possibility, but it would be a real mess, if so.

    Incredibly, there are still some FBPE types, admittedly the ultras, who are actually cheering on the EU, to punish Britain for "being selfish", ie looking after our citizens with good contracts with pharmaceutical companies

    The word "traitor" was possibly bandied around too often during the Brexitref, but in this case, it applies. If you want the EU to stop "exporting" vaccines to us - vaccines we have lawfully purchased - you are hoping that Britons will get sick and die, in large numbers. That is treasonous.
    I suspect mixing vaccine types will result in increased efficacy rather than reduced.
    Your suspicion may be right, however a lot of ordinary Brits will be fearfully alarmed that they are getting the "wrong" second dose. Many might refuse. Chaos.
    Brits have so far proved to be pretty resilient (unlike the French) to vaccine misinformation nonsense.

    Worth noting in the US, that they've approved mixing vaccines and it doesn't seem to have led to anybody panicing.
    I can see how you could mix two adenovirus vaccines like AZ and Sputnik (not least cause the latter might just be a stolen version of the former)

    And I can see how could mix two mRNA vaccines. But one of each? That surprises me. But I am not a virologist
    They all do one thing - present antigen (a segment of the spike protein that binds to the human cell) to provoke an adaptive immune response in the body. It is just how they do that that differs:
    1. viral vector vaccines insert DNA into the human cell to create the mRNA that instructs the cell to produce the protein
    2. mRNA vaccines cut out one step and supply the cell with the mRNA to instruct protein production
    3. protein vaccines cut out another step, by directly supplying the protein.

    So yes, in theory, all three should be compatible and even complementary, with the understanding the biological systems are complex and can always surprise.
    Thanks, always good to learn stuff

    Vaccines really are amazing
    And TimT is resident Pharma Papa
    No, that is Max. I am biorisk papa
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    And we should do that why?
    It’s like they haven’t noticed that we’ve left, or how our thin trade deal leaves them no power over us. Moreover, ANY formal relationship is starting to look more trouble than it’s worth. The difference in disruption between what we have and no deal, given Covid, is quite slim.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The Scottish government couldn't run a whelk store. The idea that they think they can run a railway is, well, alarming.
    The Scottish government won't be running a railway.

    1 Successive private operators have screwed it up - National Express then First Group. And now Abellio where the Dutch taxpayer is no longer willing to subsidise Scottish trains
    2 The Abellio franchise was announced in 2019 as terminating 3 years early in 2022 - this is the point where the franchisee cannot meet the additional "cap and collar" payments required
    3 Like most of the rest of the former rail franchises during Covid it cannot continue with minimal fares, so it is ending now and being replaced by an Abellio-run management concession until 2022
    4 Like most of the rest of the former rail franchises it will then be "nationalised". Which means it will be run by the Operator of Last Resort - a Limited company that in Scotland will be wholly owned by Transport Scotland as opposed to the English version which is wholly owned by the DfT
    5 As with the English version this "nationalised" operator is a private sector consortium of Arup, Ernst & Young and SNC Lavalin Rail
    6 As with other OLR operations the existing management largely stick around, just with new bosses.
    And the taxpayer underwrites the inevitable losses. Joy.
    We are ALREADY underwriting the losses! If you tried to run Scotrail commercially you'd shut most of it down. The subsidy cost of passenger rail operations is roughly 5x what it was when BR was run as a commercial operation in the late 80s/early 90s. Intercity was the only profitable long-distance passenger operator in the world.
    No, at the moment we are subsidising a lot of routes but the trading losses which accrue despite that subsidy are not our problem. After this they will be.
    Rail franchising has become a financial absolute basket case - whom are you lining up to be the replacement franchisee? National Express have long departed the scene, First have already had it and failed, Abellio have had their franchise terminated. Arriva aren't taking on any franchises due to their own existing ones being a mess so who does that leave?

    Someone has to run the trains. As no private operator is prepared to take the hit any more that leaves the British state (as opposed to someone else's state).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    The Scottish government couldn't run a whelk store. The idea that they think they can run a railway is, well, alarming.
    Only certified members of the SNP get to use the trains?
    More likely they will be issued with a Freedom pass.

    The going rate for a bit of SNP intervention in our economy is about £30m of taxpayers money (see Ferguson, Prestwick, Bifab) down the drain but we will be lucky if that keeps a railway going for more than a couple of months.
    £30m?

    £600m for the Fort William smelter.

    "Critically the SNP failed to extract any guarantees from Mr. Gupta that he would actually build the factory. Instead Gupta used the Scottish Government guarantee to sell hundreds of millions of pounds of bonds, via the now bankrupt finance firm Greensill, to Swiss fund manager GAM. Were Gupta’s firm to default and the Scottish Government guarantee to be called in, the losses would come out of the UK government-funded Scottish capital budget – used primarily to build hospitals and schools."

    https://www.thinkscotland.org/thinkbusiness/articles.html?read_full=14498
    That is a genuinely frightening one but at the moment it is only a contingent liability. I mean its not as if Gupta is being investigated for abusing UK government loans or sitting on a pile of assets that no one has made money out of for 50 years+ is it?

    Gulp.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    DavidL said:

    Cases still (just) trending down (despite tests still being through the roof):


    Does anyone else think our testing is getting just a little out of hand? That's getting up to 1 in 6 of the entire adult population in 7 days.
    Not really surprising when the whole school age population is supposed to be tested twice a week now. That on its own is around 7 million people - so 14 million tests.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    Yes, you tipped that. I gather he has a Saudi Arabia problem but that shouldn't cost him Hartlepool. I think Con gain here though. I'm on at evens on the exchange.
  • Sky breaking

    Major contraction in vaccine supply from 29th March and first dose volumes to be significantly constrained for four weeks
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391

    Sky breaking

    Major contraction in vaccine supply from 29th March and first dose volumes to be significantly constrained for four weeks

    Could become rather politically difficult if there's any appearance of an uptick in Europe alongside
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    DavidL said:

    Cases still (just) trending down (despite tests still being through the roof):


    Does anyone else think our testing is getting just a little out of hand? That's getting up to 1 in 6 of the entire adult population in 7 days.
    Not really surprising when the whole school age population is supposed to be tested twice a week now. That on its own is around 7 million people - so 14 million tests.
    But we are up to nearly 9m a day =63m a week. I mean, I know the government was bloody slow to get testing started etc etc but we seem to have a more than slightly out of control megalith here burning up stunning amounts of money as well as using astonishing amounts of lab capacity.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Cases still (just) trending down (despite tests still being through the roof):


    Does anyone else think our testing is getting just a little out of hand? That's getting up to 1 in 6 of the entire adult population in 7 days.
    Not really surprising when the whole school age population is supposed to be tested twice a week now. That on its own is around 7 million people - so 14 million tests.
    But we are up to nearly 9m a day =63m a week. I mean, I know the government was bloody slow to get testing started etc etc but we seem to have a more than slightly out of control megalith here burning up stunning amounts of money as well as using astonishing amounts of lab capacity.
    That 9m figure is a weekly figure.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    What the EU should be doing now in my opinion:
    -Getting all the Sinopharm and Sputnik they can; I know it's not ideal but it's the situation.
    -Ordering some Novovax (if that's the one that they have not ordered yet)
    -Ordering some AZN from India
    -Lobbying the US Government (through American companies as well as directly) to lift the export ban - US companies like money, and Joe Biden's administration is not Trump, so this surely has a slim chance of happening as their supplies become more plentiful
    -Working with AZN on the continent and in the UK to ensure that they are producing vaccine 24-7, 7 days a week, and have everything they need to produce with no bottlenecks in ingredient supply, bottling, logistics or anything else -sponsoring this activity, and agreeing with the UK Government and AZN that the EU will get any vaccines produced over and above existing agreed levels. Whether there actually are any kinks there to be ironed out, that money can solve in the short term, remains to be seen.
    -Big statement from EU medicines agency that real world data shows that AZN is efficacious and you're more likely to get a blood clot if you haven't had it.

    I believe a good face-saving exercise might be to reduce the dosage level for women and smaller adults, and (as per @MaxPB's suggestion the other day, potentially advise people taking certain medications to either stop, or not get their jab until further investigations can take place. Neither of these is strictly necessary, but they would both make the vaccines go further, and be good 'reasons' for the delay. I think people would be reassured that the smaller dose would make them feel the side effects less - I assume this is true. A four foot nothing woman doesn't need the same dose as a 7 foot man.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618

    rcs1000 said:

    The more ways you look at this, the dumber the EU's response becomes.

    (1) They have no real hold over the UK, as the UK has ample orders of vaccines. Even if they did cut off Pfizer, the UK has Moderna and Novavax and J&J coming in the next couple of months, combined with ever greater production of AZ.

    (2) Every threat of an export ban, makes it less likely that pharmaceutical companies will want to invest in the EU. And right now, you want pharmaceutical companies to be building vaccine production capacity.

    (3) They're pissing off a whole bunch of allies.

    (4) And they're not even ending up with any more vaccines (and quite possibly less) than they would have had before.

    It's time for the EU Parliament to step up and depose UvdL.

    Except, it poses a real problem for the EU: where are they going to find a leader who is worse?
    I hear Dave Keating is up for it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    .
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    If they block Pfizer we'll simply switch wholesale to Oxford/AZ or other vaccines.

    They don't have any levers.

    But what about Brits who've had one Pfizer jab but won't get the 2nd, if the EU blocks exports? Don't know if that's a possibility, but it would be a real mess, if so.

    Incredibly, there are still some FBPE types, admittedly the ultras, who are actually cheering on the EU, to punish Britain for "being selfish", ie looking after our citizens with good contracts with pharmaceutical companies

    The word "traitor" was possibly bandied around too often during the Brexitref, but in this case, it applies. If you want the EU to stop "exporting" vaccines to us - vaccines we have lawfully purchased - you are hoping that Britons will get sick and die, in large numbers. That is treasonous.
    I suspect mixing vaccine types will result in increased efficacy rather than reduced.
    Your suspicion may be right, however a lot of ordinary Brits will be fearfully alarmed that they are getting the "wrong" second dose. Many might refuse. Chaos.
    Brits have so far proved to be pretty resilient (unlike the French) to vaccine misinformation nonsense.

    Worth noting in the US, that they've approved mixing vaccines and it doesn't seem to have led to anybody panicing.
    I can see how you could mix two adenovirus vaccines like AZ and Sputnik (not least cause the latter might just be a stolen version of the former)

    And I can see how could mix two mRNA vaccines. But one of each? That surprises me. But I am not a virologist
    It's not a surprise at all.
    Indeed we started a trial of the idea a little while ago:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55924433

    No results until June, though.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618
    Grim breaking news on vaccine supply. Something has gone seriously wrong somewhere.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,886
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Cases still (just) trending down (despite tests still being through the roof):


    Does anyone else think our testing is getting just a little out of hand? That's getting up to 1 in 6 of the entire adult population in 7 days.
    Not really surprising when the whole school age population is supposed to be tested twice a week now. That on its own is around 7 million people - so 14 million tests.
    But we are up to nearly 9m a day =63m a week. I mean, I know the government was bloody slow to get testing started etc etc but we seem to have a more than slightly out of control megalith here burning up stunning amounts of money as well as using astonishing amounts of lab capacity.
    May want to double check the original image...
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013
    Endillion said:



    They don't really have a target #2. It used to be Bristol West, but that now has a colossal Labour majority. Third was Holborn & St Pancras at one time, but that is Starmer's seat so out of range for the foreseeable future. Probably Isle of Wight is their best chance of a gain at the next election, but they'd be coming from third to overturn a 20k+ Tory lead.

    So a million voters go unrepresented? FPTP is not democracy.
This discussion has been closed.