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Leader and government approval ratings and voting intention as a guide to general election results –

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    The East tends to be conflated in most people's minds with the Fens: a billiard table flat, dull as ditchwater landscape filled with nothing but thousands and thousands of potato and sugar beet fields (although even the Fens have Ely, which is lovely and well worth a day trip if you've never been.) But yes, if that puts a load of potential visitors off then so much the better. More room for the rest of us to breathe.
    I hear amazing things of north Norfolk (never been): genuine sense of wildness, seals on beaches, superb seafood....

    The East is the untouched corner of the UK, tourist-wise. Probably as it has such a bad rep from a few hideous resorts, from Clacton to Yarmouth, whereas most of it is lovely, and in places like Suffolk, stunning.

    Also, one of the sunniest regions in Britain, alongside south Sussex and the Channel Isles.
    Contestants for the sunniest place in the UK are Ventnor, Shanklin, Eastbourne and Torbay, not anywhere in Suffolk.

    The Channel Islands aren’t in “Britain” anyway.
    Oh god. You're such a dick.

    Three of the top ten warmest AND sunniest places in Britain last year:

    Southend
    Cambridge
    Maldon

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/14040885/hottest-and-sunniest-places-in-uk/#:~:text=SHANKLIN – 262.32 hours of sunshine,beaches on the entire island.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587
    isam said:



    A little bit, most LOTOs generally start of with good ratings usually caused by a higher number of DKs.

    There's been only one LOTO who had consistently positive ratings throughout their tenure, most LOTOs who go on to become PM have ups and down.

    He's doing better than most LOTOs at this point in the cycle of leader/satisfaction ratings but meh in VI scores.

    I genuinely don't know how much pandemic era polling can be used to compare to previous eras.

    SKS is looking old, and a bit dull. It is a real pity he stood, Labour did have much better options.

    SKS seems to be following the Tony Blair picture-book on "How to Win a General Election?"

    But, the thrill just isn't there, anymore.

    It is the same moves, the same foreplay as Tony used, but no-one feels really excited by the prospect of precoital activity with a greying, stolid, almost sixty-year old, lawyer.

    Hard not to forget, we could have had Lisa Nandy or Angela Rayner .... as LOTO :)
    Jess Phillips - a mix of Starmer politics and Corbyn passion. I think that is what Labour need
    A perfect package, save the thick Brummie burr. That'll lose 10 Million votes. I speak as someone with a thick Brummie burr.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    BBC commentators having problems understanding it takes 11 minutes for data to come back to Earth and that the Nasa commentary was relaying events that had already happened.
    “It’s amazing it only takes 11 minutes to receive that information”

    God help us.
  • IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    The East tends to be conflated in most people's minds with the Fens: a billiard table flat, dull as ditchwater landscape filled with nothing but thousands and thousands of potato and sugar beet fields (although even the Fens have Ely, which is lovely and well worth a day trip if you've never been.) But yes, if that puts a load of potential visitors off then so much the better. More room for the rest of us to breathe.
    I hear amazing things of north Norfolk (never been): genuine sense of wildness, seals on beaches, superb seafood....

    The East is the untouched corner of the UK, tourist-wise. Probably as it has such a bad rep from a few hideous resorts, from Clacton to Yarmouth, whereas most of it is lovely, and in places like Suffolk, stunning.

    Also, one of the sunniest regions in Britain, alongside south Sussex and the Channel Isles.
    Eastern England - both East Anglia and Lincolnshire - has some stunningly beautiful places and masses of history. It also records he earliest known human inhabitants of these islands. I love the wildness of parts of the coast, particularly, as you say, North Norfolk.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    The East tends to be conflated in most people's minds with the Fens: a billiard table flat, dull as ditchwater landscape filled with nothing but thousands and thousands of potato and sugar beet fields (although even the Fens have Ely, which is lovely and well worth a day trip if you've never been.) But yes, if that puts a load of potential visitors off then so much the better. More room for the rest of us to breathe.
    I hear amazing things of north Norfolk (never been): genuine sense of wildness, seals on beaches, superb seafood....

    The East is the untouched corner of the UK, tourist-wise. Probably as it has such a bad rep from a few hideous resorts, from Clacton to Yarmouth, whereas most of it is lovely, and in places like Suffolk, stunning.

    Also, one of the sunniest regions in Britain, alongside south Sussex and the Channel Isles.
    Some lovely walks near Dunwich - pretty little coastal towns too - we won't talk about Clacton or Yarmouth :wink:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    The East tends to be conflated in most people's minds with the Fens: a billiard table flat, dull as ditchwater landscape filled with nothing but thousands and thousands of potato and sugar beet fields (although even the Fens have Ely, which is lovely and well worth a day trip if you've never been.) But yes, if that puts a load of potential visitors off then so much the better. More room for the rest of us to breathe.
    I hear amazing things of north Norfolk (never been): genuine sense of wildness, seals on beaches, superb seafood....

    The East is the untouched corner of the UK, tourist-wise. Probably as it has such a bad rep from a few hideous resorts, from Clacton to Yarmouth, whereas most of it is lovely, and in places like Suffolk, stunning.

    Also, one of the sunniest regions in Britain, alongside south Sussex and the Channel Isles.
    Contestants for the sunniest place in the UK are Ventnor, Shanklin, Eastbourne and Torbay, not anywhere in Suffolk.

    The Channel Islands aren’t in “Britain” anyway.
    Oh god. You're such a dick.

    Three of the top ten warmest AND sunniest places in Britain last year:

    Southend
    Cambridge
    Maldon

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/14040885/hottest-and-sunniest-places-in-uk/#:~:text=SHANKLIN – 262.32 hours of sunshine,beaches on the entire island.
    Don’t you realise that to be ‘sunniest place’ needs a running record, not a single year’s data?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Floater said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    Had some wonderful walks in and around Maldon.

    Maldon is gorgeous. It also has the oldest continuous oyster harvesting tradition - ie a harvest decreed and patronage by royal patronage - in the world. Back to the 13th century.

    "The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters" - Pliny
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840
    2 questions.
    Since Starmer doesn't have a big idea, what is the Tories big idea?
    Specifics not slogans.
    And what's this about Boris and Subterranean Homesick Blues? Did I miss that?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited February 2021

    I've just looked at the BBC coverage and someone wrote this:

    "The spacecraft has now entered the Martian atmosphere, at times feeling pressures of about 10 times the gravity of Earth."

    There are times I just want to give up...

    What they actually said was that the peak deceleration was around 10 Earth g, in other words roughly 100m/s/s

    Maybe all the science correspondents are working on the pandemic. Nope, that can't be it, they still have the politics team asking about holidays. Do the BBC really have no scientists in their massive team of journalists?
  • IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    First image appears from the engineering camera -:no sign yet of any aliens with ‘welcome to Mars’ placards

    Wot, no aliens?
    They wouldn’t want to catch COVID from the surface of the robot, anyway.
    I'd hope re-entry sterilises every bit as well as singing Happy Birthday twice while washing your hands.
    Apollo 12 landed right by an unmanned probe (by design) and bought a bit of it back.

    When they examined the camera, they found that someone had sneezed on it while making it. They managed to cultivate bacteria that had survived the trip to the moon and then sitting on the surface for a year or two.

    That is why NASA have someone called the Planetary Protection Officer: if you are sending a rover to Mars to see if there is life there, you don't want to find that the life is something that hitched a lift on the spacecraft.

    https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/people/1421/catharine-cassie-conley/
  • IanB2 said:

    I've just looked at the BBC coverage and someone wrote this:

    "The spacecraft has now entered the Martian atmosphere, at times feeling pressures of about 10 times the gravity of Earth."

    There are times I just want to give up...

    Technically that is entirely correct, if a little misleading.
    Not you too...

    How can a pressure be equal to gravity?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087
    Leon said:

    Floater said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    Had some wonderful walks in and around Maldon.

    Maldon is gorgeous. It also has the oldest continuous oyster harvesting tradition - ie a harvest decreed and patronage by royal patronage - in the world. Back to the 13th century.

    "The only good thing to come out of Britain is oysters" - Pliny
    The Romans themselves were doing it in Italy since BC
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884
    IanB2 said:

    I've just looked at the BBC coverage and someone wrote this:

    "The spacecraft has now entered the Martian atmosphere, at times feeling pressures of about 10 times the gravity of Earth."

    There are times I just want to give up...

    Technically that is entirely correct, if a little misleading.
    Pressures of ... gravity?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    The East tends to be conflated in most people's minds with the Fens: a billiard table flat, dull as ditchwater landscape filled with nothing but thousands and thousands of potato and sugar beet fields (although even the Fens have Ely, which is lovely and well worth a day trip if you've never been.) But yes, if that puts a load of potential visitors off then so much the better. More room for the rest of us to breathe.
    I hear amazing things of north Norfolk (never been): genuine sense of wildness, seals on beaches, superb seafood....

    The East is the untouched corner of the UK, tourist-wise. Probably as it has such a bad rep from a few hideous resorts, from Clacton to Yarmouth, whereas most of it is lovely, and in places like Suffolk, stunning.

    Also, one of the sunniest regions in Britain, alongside south Sussex and the Channel Isles.
    As I recall, the fens is described quite romantically in Dorothy L Sayers' Peter Whimsey mysteries.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    The East tends to be conflated in most people's minds with the Fens: a billiard table flat, dull as ditchwater landscape filled with nothing but thousands and thousands of potato and sugar beet fields (although even the Fens have Ely, which is lovely and well worth a day trip if you've never been.) But yes, if that puts a load of potential visitors off then so much the better. More room for the rest of us to breathe.
    I hear amazing things of north Norfolk (never been): genuine sense of wildness, seals on beaches, superb seafood....

    The East is the untouched corner of the UK, tourist-wise. Probably as it has such a bad rep from a few hideous resorts, from Clacton to Yarmouth, whereas most of it is lovely, and in places like Suffolk, stunning.

    Also, one of the sunniest regions in Britain, alongside south Sussex and the Channel Isles.
    Contestants for the sunniest place in the UK are Ventnor, Shanklin, Eastbourne and Torbay, not anywhere in Suffolk.

    The Channel Islands aren’t in “Britain” anyway.
    Oh god. You're such a dick.

    Three of the top ten warmest AND sunniest places in Britain last year:

    Southend
    Cambridge
    Maldon

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/14040885/hottest-and-sunniest-places-in-uk/#:~:text=SHANKLIN – 262.32 hours of sunshine,beaches on the entire island.
    Don’t you realise that to be ‘sunniest place’ needs a running record, not a single year’s data?
    I have belatedly realised that you are, actually, and literally, a cretin. Took me long enough. Reflects badly on me, TBH. Anyway, arguing with an autistic cretin is perhaps the stupidest waste of time invented, so I bid you good day for the rest of eternity. Have a nice one.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087

    IanB2 said:

    I've just looked at the BBC coverage and someone wrote this:

    "The spacecraft has now entered the Martian atmosphere, at times feeling pressures of about 10 times the gravity of Earth."

    There are times I just want to give up...

    Technically that is entirely correct, if a little misleading.
    Pressures of ... gravity?
    of Earth Gs, thru deceleration
  • IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    First image appears from the engineering camera -:no sign yet of any aliens with ‘welcome to Mars’ placards

    Wot, no aliens?
    They wouldn’t want to catch COVID from the surface of the robot, anyway.
    I'd hope re-entry sterilises every bit as well as singing Happy Birthday twice while washing your hands.
    Apollo 12 landed right by an unmanned probe (by design) and bought a bit of it back.

    When they examined the camera, they found that someone had sneezed on it while making it. They managed to cultivate bacteria that had survived the trip to the moon and then sitting on the surface for a year or two.

    That is why NASA have someone called the Planetary Protection Officer: if you are sending a rover to Mars to see if there is life there, you don't want to find that the life is something that hitched a lift on the spacecraft.

    https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/people/1421/catharine-cassie-conley/
    Interesting story.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087
    edited February 2021

    IanB2 said:

    I've just looked at the BBC coverage and someone wrote this:

    "The spacecraft has now entered the Martian atmosphere, at times feeling pressures of about 10 times the gravity of Earth."

    There are times I just want to give up...

    Technically that is entirely correct, if a little misleading.
    Not you too...

    How can a pressure be equal to gravity?
    Isn’t that the definition of a ‘G’? As short for g-force
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    The East tends to be conflated in most people's minds with the Fens: a billiard table flat, dull as ditchwater landscape filled with nothing but thousands and thousands of potato and sugar beet fields (although even the Fens have Ely, which is lovely and well worth a day trip if you've never been.) But yes, if that puts a load of potential visitors off then so much the better. More room for the rest of us to breathe.
    Without the Fens we would never have had Sir Hereward Wake

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_baronets
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    Brecon Beacons and the area round Rhayader
  • IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    They missed out the whole of Devon for a start: try anything there (except Plymouth which is a dump).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    Were you inspired by SeanT's travel writing ?

    I remember him recommending the same places.
    He's very influential.
    One might even say he has the influence of several men.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    It’s been mentioned before on here, but Stamford in Lincolnshire is excellent.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,922

    isam said:



    A little bit, most LOTOs generally start of with good ratings usually caused by a higher number of DKs.

    There's been only one LOTO who had consistently positive ratings throughout their tenure, most LOTOs who go on to become PM have ups and down.

    He's doing better than most LOTOs at this point in the cycle of leader/satisfaction ratings but meh in VI scores.

    I genuinely don't know how much pandemic era polling can be used to compare to previous eras.

    SKS is looking old, and a bit dull. It is a real pity he stood, Labour did have much better options.

    SKS seems to be following the Tony Blair picture-book on "How to Win a General Election?"

    But, the thrill just isn't there, anymore.

    It is the same moves, the same foreplay as Tony used, but no-one feels really excited by the prospect of precoital activity with a greying, stolid, almost sixty-year old, lawyer.

    Hard not to forget, we could have had Lisa Nandy or Angela Rayner .... as LOTO :)
    Jess Phillips - a mix of Starmer politics and Corbyn passion. I think that is what Labour need
    A perfect package, save the thick Brummie burr. That'll lose 10 Million votes. I speak as someone with a thick Brummie burr.
    She’s one of very few politicians with genuine charisma. You stop and listen when she speaks. I can’t really think of any others among the present crop of whom that’s true.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    Suffolk - magnificent countryside, great pubs, you can go boating on the rivers, and Aldeburgh will give you a little chunk of posh if breezy coastline

    South Devon (as others have said), superb seafood, exquisite villages and countryside, nice climate, Dartmoor to the north for adventure

    The Welsh Marches. Herefordshire is like a quiet English Tuscany. Lost villages, antique churches, almost entirely unspoiled. The Forest of Dean. And.... Tintern Abbey. Oh my word. The Dordogne of England.

    Lincoln: the city. The walk up to the cathedral is spellbinding
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    Were you inspired by SeanT's travel writing ?

    I remember him recommending the same places.
    I rather think it is the other way round. He's a known plagiarist.
  • Charles said:

    What's wrong with those pronouns?

    I'm not a linguist but to me they seem entirely grammatically correct. I don't understand which other pronouns would be better.

    They = the subject referred to (two subjects both referred to separately as they)
    Our = collective, everyone

    That's the right grammar isn't it?
    I’d suggest if he didn’t want to imply a group of outsiders claiming rights to participate in something that doesn’t belong to them, the sentence would have been constructed rather more carefully - and in particular ‘our’ would be seen to attach itself to BAME rather than elections.
    Why? I don't read that into it at all.

    "The Left thinks so poorly" is making it clear the Left thinks what follows, he doesn't agree.

    "reckon they're incapable of securing a form of ID" they're refers to the people the Left think poorly of and he's saying they're not incapable.

    "in our elections" clearly refers our to being the elections. Which we're all entitled to vote in and he thinks BAME can rightly get ID to vote in and the Left are wrong to think they're incapable.

    What's wrong with any of that? BAME people are not incapable, he's right on that.
    Nothing. It’s people seeking to make a political attack implying he’s racist
    Thought so.

    They should be ashamed of themselves.

    There I go using that word "they".
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Charles said:

    What's wrong with those pronouns?

    I'm not a linguist but to me they seem entirely grammatically correct. I don't understand which other pronouns would be better.

    They = the subject referred to (two subjects both referred to separately as they)
    Our = collective, everyone

    That's the right grammar isn't it?
    I’d suggest if he didn’t want to imply a group of outsiders claiming rights to participate in something that doesn’t belong to them, the sentence would have been constructed rather more carefully - and in particular ‘our’ would be seen to attach itself to BAME rather than elections.
    Why? I don't read that into it at all.

    "The Left thinks so poorly" is making it clear the Left thinks what follows, he doesn't agree.

    "reckon they're incapable of securing a form of ID" they're refers to the people the Left think poorly of and he's saying they're not incapable.

    "in our elections" clearly refers our to being the elections. Which we're all entitled to vote in and he thinks BAME can rightly get ID to vote in and the Left are wrong to think they're incapable.

    What's wrong with any of that? BAME people are not incapable, he's right on that.
    Nothing. It’s people seeking to make a political attack implying he’s racist
    He's a white man, of course he's racist.

    Campaigned to leave the EU as well. Doubly racist.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    edited February 2021
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just looked at the BBC coverage and someone wrote this:

    "The spacecraft has now entered the Martian atmosphere, at times feeling pressures of about 10 times the gravity of Earth."

    There are times I just want to give up...

    Technically that is entirely correct, if a little misleading.
    Not you too...

    How can a pressure be equal to gravity?
    Isn’t that the definition of a ‘G’?
    Pressure is force/area.

    Force = mass x acceleration

    Gravitational field strength can be expressed either as an acceleration or (more properly) as force/mass.

    It's as if they confused the debt and the deficit only worse.

    Edit to answer your question:
    g (not G) on the surface of the Earth is 10m/s/s (to within 2%) so accelerations are sometimes measured as so many g. 3g would be 30m/s/s.
    G is the gravitational constant used in the equation used to find the force between two masses:

    F = GMm/r^2
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    They missed out the whole of Devon for a start: try anything there (except Plymouth which is a dump).
    Not fair. Although the dockyard was badly blitzed in WW2 and doesn't compare to Portsmouth or Chatham for C18/C19 stuff. The Royal William Victualling Yard, Crownill Fort, and some of the sea coast are a treat.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just looked at the BBC coverage and someone wrote this:

    "The spacecraft has now entered the Martian atmosphere, at times feeling pressures of about 10 times the gravity of Earth."

    There are times I just want to give up...

    Technically that is entirely correct, if a little misleading.
    Not you too...

    How can a pressure be equal to gravity?
    Isn’t that the definition of a ‘G’?
    Pressure is force/area.

    Force = mass x acceleration

    Gravitational field strength can be expressed either as an acceleration or (more properly) as force/mass.

    It's as if they confused the debt and the deficit only worse.
    The gravitational force equivalent, or, more commonly, g-force, is a measurement of the type of force per unit mass – typically acceleration – that causes a perception of weight, with a g-force of 1 g equal to the conventional value of gravitational acceleration on Earth, g, of about 9.8 m/s2.[1] Since g-forces indirectly produce weight, any g-force can be described as a "weight per unit mass"
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just looked at the BBC coverage and someone wrote this:

    "The spacecraft has now entered the Martian atmosphere, at times feeling pressures of about 10 times the gravity of Earth."

    There are times I just want to give up...

    Technically that is entirely correct, if a little misleading.
    Not you too...

    How can a pressure be equal to gravity?
    Isn’t that the definition of a ‘G’?
    Pressure is force/area.

    Force = mass x acceleration

    Gravitational field strength can be expressed either as an acceleration or (more properly) as force/mass.

    It's as if they confused the debt and the deficit only worse.
    So like confusing weight and mass?
  • ydoethur said:



    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    On topic, in the run up to the 2015 GE I did a piece which pointed out that the party that led on both the leadership ratings and best to run the economy metric won the general election.

    The only curio was 1997 where the Tories led on the economic question but trailed Blair so much on the leadership to be odd, especially after Black Wednesday.

    I might update that piece.

    Gross or net leadership ratings? Or preferred PM?

    Currently both leaders can claim to be in the lead depending upon how you define lead.
    Net satisfaction ratings.
    So you think Starmer is tanking at the moment rather than holding steady?
    A little bit, most LOTOs generally start of with good ratings usually caused by a higher number of DKs.

    There's been only one LOTO who had consistently positive ratings throughout their tenure, most LOTOs who go on to become PM have ups and down.

    He's doing better than most LOTOs at this point in the cycle of leader/satisfaction ratings but meh in VI scores.

    I genuinely don't know how much pandemic era polling can be used to compare to previous eras.
    I agree, compared to recent leaders of the opposition Starmer is certainly doing better than Hague and IDS and Miliband and Corbyn and Foot were at this stage certainly.

    At the moment while he is clearly nowhere near Blair levels, he is doing at least as well as Howard, Kinnock and Cameron were just under a year in post.
    He's in the category of "Hmm. I suppose they'll do." Which is roughly where Thatcher was just before the Winter of Discontent, or Cameron just before the GFC. Net negative, but not by much.

    So one of two things happens from here.

    One is that the Johnson government is a success. In which case, ghastly as they are, they will deservedly win. I probably still won't vote for them, but hey ho.

    The other is that the Johnson government is a failure. In which case, Starmer has got enough "Oh, OK then." to get into No 10. The point is that failed LotOs don't even have that. Think about EdM or IDS. (Actually don't. It might give you nightmares.) If Johnsonism fails, no amount of brio will save him, and being boring might well be a benefit.
    I think the key advantage Starmer has is nobody hates him.

    He may be boring and not so far dazzlingly effective, but he’s not obviously deranged, stupid, or nasty.

    There won’t be any room for a ‘vote Tory to keep Labour out‘ campaign as there was in 2017 and 2019.

    Whether that will make enough of a difference to let him regain ground I don’t know.
    Nobody hated Ed Miliband.

    Just that the voters didn't warm to the aloof N Londoner either.

    So Labour go pick another. Genius.

    Since Starmer's been referencing Attlee today, why don't you just go the whole hog and describe Starmer as "a modest man with a lot to be modest about”, or maybe say something about what happened when he got out of an empty taxi?

    If PB Tories choose to be complacent, just as Churchill was before coming a cropper, that's fine by me.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    What's wrong with those pronouns?

    I'm not a linguist but to me they seem entirely grammatically correct. I don't understand which other pronouns would be better.

    They = the subject referred to (two subjects both referred to separately as they)
    Our = collective, everyone

    That's the right grammar isn't it?
    I’d suggest if he didn’t want to imply a group of outsiders claiming rights to participate in something that doesn’t belong to them, the sentence would have been constructed rather more carefully - and in particular ‘our’ would be seen to attach itself to BAME rather than elections.
    I think you are reading to much into it. At the very least jouno/pundit command of the language is often a factor in slightly odd wording. Although I'd say the use of our in this case was meant inclusively.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    isam said:



    A little bit, most LOTOs generally start of with good ratings usually caused by a higher number of DKs.

    There's been only one LOTO who had consistently positive ratings throughout their tenure, most LOTOs who go on to become PM have ups and down.

    He's doing better than most LOTOs at this point in the cycle of leader/satisfaction ratings but meh in VI scores.

    I genuinely don't know how much pandemic era polling can be used to compare to previous eras.

    SKS is looking old, and a bit dull. It is a real pity he stood, Labour did have much better options.

    SKS seems to be following the Tony Blair picture-book on "How to Win a General Election?"

    But, the thrill just isn't there, anymore.

    It is the same moves, the same foreplay as Tony used, but no-one feels really excited by the prospect of precoital activity with a greying, stolid, almost sixty-year old, lawyer.

    Hard not to forget, we could have had Lisa Nandy or Angela Rayner .... as LOTO :)
    Jess Phillips - a mix of Starmer politics and Corbyn passion. I think that is what Labour need
    A perfect package, save the thick Brummie burr. That'll lose 10 Million votes. I speak as someone with a thick Brummie burr.
    She’s one of very few politicians with genuine charisma. You stop and listen when she speaks. I can’t really think of any others among the present crop of whom that’s true.
    You stop and listen. And then think “my God, I didn’t realise it was possible for anyone to be so vulgar and self-obsessed”
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    The East tends to be conflated in most people's minds with the Fens: a billiard table flat, dull as ditchwater landscape filled with nothing but thousands and thousands of potato and sugar beet fields (although even the Fens have Ely, which is lovely and well worth a day trip if you've never been.) But yes, if that puts a load of potential visitors off then so much the better. More room for the rest of us to breathe.
    I hear amazing things of north Norfolk (never been): genuine sense of wildness, seals on beaches, superb seafood....

    The East is the untouched corner of the UK, tourist-wise. Probably as it has such a bad rep from a few hideous resorts, from Clacton to Yarmouth, whereas most of it is lovely, and in places like Suffolk, stunning.

    Also, one of the sunniest regions in Britain, alongside south Sussex and the Channel Isles.
    Contestants for the sunniest place in the UK are Ventnor, Shanklin, Eastbourne and Torbay, not anywhere in Suffolk.

    The Channel Islands aren’t in “Britain” anyway.
    Oh god. You're such a dick.

    Three of the top ten warmest AND sunniest places in Britain last year:

    Southend
    Cambridge
    Maldon

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/14040885/hottest-and-sunniest-places-in-uk/#:~:text=SHANKLIN – 262.32 hours of sunshine,beaches on the entire island.
    Don’t you realise that to be ‘sunniest place’ needs a running record, not a single year’s data?
    I have belatedly realised that you are, actually, and literally, a cretin. Took me long enough. Reflects badly on me, TBH. Anyway, arguing with an autistic cretin is perhaps the stupidest waste of time invented, so I bid you good day for the rest of eternity. Have a nice one.
    Did you not read your own link? You are conflating temperature with hours of sunshine. For the latter, Suffolk doesn’t compete.
  • Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    They missed out the whole of Devon for a start: try anything there (except Plymouth which is a dump).
    Not fair. Although the dockyard was badly blitzed in WW2 and doesn't compare to Portsmouth or Chatham for C18/C19 stuff. The Royal William Victualling Yard, Crownill Fort, and some of the sea coast are a treat.
    I was born in Exeter. I don't have to be fair to Plymouth...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    They missed out the whole of Devon for a start: try anything there (except Plymouth which is a dump).
    Plymouth is amazing. One of the great medium-sized cities in the world. From the menacing nuke submarines to the Royal William Victualling Yards (like a maritime Versailles) to the historic Barbican to the Plymouth gin distillery to the brothels by seedy, eerie Devonport to the place where the Mayflower set off. Plus a post-war city centre actually done well: like an English version of Fascist modernism (and for all his faults, Mussolini was quite good at buildings)

    I love Plymouth. It is enchanted in good and bad ways. Compelling.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    Were you inspired by SeanT's travel writing ?

    I remember him recommending the same places.
    I rather think it is the other way round. He's a known plagiarist.
    Did you catch him knapping?
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just looked at the BBC coverage and someone wrote this:

    "The spacecraft has now entered the Martian atmosphere, at times feeling pressures of about 10 times the gravity of Earth."

    There are times I just want to give up...

    Technically that is entirely correct, if a little misleading.
    Not you too...

    How can a pressure be equal to gravity?
    Isn’t that the definition of a ‘G’?
    Pressure is force/area.

    Force = mass x acceleration

    Gravitational field strength can be expressed either as an acceleration or (more properly) as force/mass.

    It's as if they confused the debt and the deficit only worse.
    The gravitational force equivalent, or, more commonly, g-force, is a measurement of the type of force per unit mass – typically acceleration – that causes a perception of weight, with a g-force of 1 g equal to the conventional value of gravitational acceleration on Earth, g, of about 9.8 m/s2.[1] Since g-forces indirectly produce weight, any g-force can be described as a "weight per unit mass"
    And that is why we don't rely on Wikipedia...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    justin124 said:

    FPT
    Kinabalu said
    ' My brother's met him and says he has big charisma. Not a shock really when you think about it. He's won every election he's stood in, been London Mayor, Foreign Secretary, and is now PM, despite being palpably devoid of almost all the qualities needed to perform well in those jobs. So it can't be anything but charisma, can it?'

    To correct one point, he has not been successful at every election he contested. He was heavily defeated at Clwyd South in 1997 - polling less than half the vote of his Labour opponent. That seat is now Tory-held - so his charisma failed to make much difference there!

    And he of course lost badly the first time he ran for Oxford Union president.
    Against a Liberal.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    Were you inspired by SeanT's travel writing ?

    I remember him recommending the same places.
    I rather think it is the other way round. He's a known plagiarist.
    I bought one of his flint pieces for my wife. I have to say she was delighted with it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149
    edited February 2021

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    They missed out the whole of Devon for a start: try anything there (except Plymouth which is a dump).
    Not fair. Although the dockyard was badly blitzed in WW2 and doesn't compare to Portsmouth or Chatham for C18/C19 stuff. The Royal William Victualling Yard, Crownill Fort, and some of the sea coast are a treat.
    I was born in Exeter. I don't have to be fair to Plymouth...
    That's actually another nice place - I do like a wander around and lunch in the cathedral cafe with a paperback.

    Oddly enough the boats museum disappeared - a few years ago I saw some very familiar looking items at Eyemouth Harbour in the Scottish Borders (no idea if they are still there).
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just looked at the BBC coverage and someone wrote this:

    "The spacecraft has now entered the Martian atmosphere, at times feeling pressures of about 10 times the gravity of Earth."

    There are times I just want to give up...

    Technically that is entirely correct, if a little misleading.
    Not you too...

    How can a pressure be equal to gravity?
    Isn’t that the definition of a ‘G’?
    Pressure is force/area.

    Force = mass x acceleration

    Gravitational field strength can be expressed either as an acceleration or (more properly) as force/mass.

    It's as if they confused the debt and the deficit only worse.
    So like confusing weight and mass?
    Worse. It is more like confusing weight and density.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087
    NASA covering for the lack of further photos with a rendition of “Life on Mars”. A news conference on the half hour, then that’s it for the day.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just looked at the BBC coverage and someone wrote this:

    "The spacecraft has now entered the Martian atmosphere, at times feeling pressures of about 10 times the gravity of Earth."

    There are times I just want to give up...

    Technically that is entirely correct, if a little misleading.
    Not you too...

    How can a pressure be equal to gravity?
    Isn’t that the definition of a ‘G’?
    Pressure is force/area.

    Force = mass x acceleration

    Gravitational field strength can be expressed either as an acceleration or (more properly) as force/mass.

    It's as if they confused the debt and the deficit only worse.
    The gravitational force equivalent, or, more commonly, g-force, is a measurement of the type of force per unit mass – typically acceleration – that causes a perception of weight, with a g-force of 1 g equal to the conventional value of gravitational acceleration on Earth, g, of about 9.8 m/s2.[1] Since g-forces indirectly produce weight, any g-force can be described as a "weight per unit mass"
    And that is why we don't rely on Wikipedia...
    Blame pilots; they’re always going on about G as a pressure to be endured.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just looked at the BBC coverage and someone wrote this:

    "The spacecraft has now entered the Martian atmosphere, at times feeling pressures of about 10 times the gravity of Earth."

    There are times I just want to give up...

    Technically that is entirely correct, if a little misleading.
    Not you too...

    How can a pressure be equal to gravity?
    Isn’t that the definition of a ‘G’?
    Pressure is force/area.

    Force = mass x acceleration

    Gravitational field strength can be expressed either as an acceleration or (more properly) as force/mass.

    It's as if they confused the debt and the deficit only worse.
    So like confusing weight and mass?
    Worse. It is more like confusing weight and density.
    Cue Eric Pickles jokes...
  • Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    Suffolk - magnificent countryside, great pubs, you can go boating on the rivers, and Aldeburgh will give you a little chunk of posh if breezy coastline

    South Devon (as others have said), superb seafood, exquisite villages and countryside, nice climate, Dartmoor to the north for adventure

    The Welsh Marches. Herefordshire is like a quiet English Tuscany. Lost villages, antique churches, almost entirely unspoiled. The Forest of Dean. And.... Tintern Abbey. Oh my word. The Dordogne of England.

    Lincoln: the city. The walk up to the cathedral is spellbinding
    Nice but safe.

    Here's different and cheap:

    Retford - easy to get to, lots of pubs, Robin Hood country, Pilgrim Fathers country, Wellbeck Abbey, not far from Lincoln.

    Bolsover - easy to get to, Bolsover castle, Hardwick Hall, Creswell Crags neolithic site, not far from Peak district.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    Were you inspired by SeanT's travel writing ?

    I remember him recommending the same places.
    He's very influential.
    One might even say he has the influence of several men.
    He is writing a new movie "The seven faces of Sean"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Charles said:

    What's wrong with those pronouns?

    I'm not a linguist but to me they seem entirely grammatically correct. I don't understand which other pronouns would be better.

    They = the subject referred to (two subjects both referred to separately as they)
    Our = collective, everyone

    That's the right grammar isn't it?
    I’d suggest if he didn’t want to imply a group of outsiders claiming rights to participate in something that doesn’t belong to them, the sentence would have been constructed rather more carefully - and in particular ‘our’ would be seen to attach itself to BAME rather than elections.
    Why? I don't read that into it at all.

    "The Left thinks so poorly" is making it clear the Left thinks what follows, he doesn't agree.

    "reckon they're incapable of securing a form of ID" they're refers to the people the Left think poorly of and he's saying they're not incapable.

    "in our elections" clearly refers our to being the elections. Which we're all entitled to vote in and he thinks BAME can rightly get ID to vote in and the Left are wrong to think they're incapable.

    What's wrong with any of that? BAME people are not incapable, he's right on that.
    Nothing. It’s people seeking to make a political attack implying he’s racist
    Any such argument that relies on widely interpreting individual word usage is often problematic. Cameron and swarming springs to mind. Someone might also be racist, but having to work pretty hard to get to a particular interpretation of commonplace words and phrases as being in a racist manner is often more trouble than it is worth.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    They missed out the whole of Devon for a start: try anything there (except Plymouth which is a dump).
    Plymouth is amazing. One of the great medium-sized cities in the world. From the menacing nuke submarines to the Royal William Victualling Yards (like a maritime Versailles) to the historic Barbican to the Plymouth gin distillery to the brothels by seedy, eerie Devonport to the place where the Mayflower set off. Plus a post-war city centre actually done well: like an English version of Fascist modernism (and for all his faults, Mussolini was quite good at buildings)

    I love Plymouth. It is enchanted in good and bad ways. Compelling.
    And the train ride through it past the RN Base and barracks over the Royal Albert Bridge. (Shame abouit the road bridge beside it.)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    edited February 2021
    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    They missed out the whole of Devon for a start: try anything there (except Plymouth which is a dump).
    Not fair. Although the dockyard was badly blitzed in WW2 and doesn't compare to Portsmouth or Chatham for C18/C19 stuff. The Royal William Victualling Yard, Crownill Fort, and some of the sea coast are a treat.
    Huzzah. A fellow fan. Plymouth is fucking incredible. Seedy, grotty, muscly, and all that, yet AT THE SAME TIME, superbly historic, with amazing architecture, wonderful views, incredible topography, Dartmoor meeting the suburbs, the mighty Tamar dividing everything, and the oldest regular ferry in the world.

    We Brits tend to overlook what we have. Plymouth is a peerless example. Its history alone makes it world class, but there is so much more.

    And because it is a bit gritty, it hasn't been turned into St Ives or St Tropez or Nice or Tallinn.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,960
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    The East tends to be conflated in most people's minds with the Fens: a billiard table flat, dull as ditchwater landscape filled with nothing but thousands and thousands of potato and sugar beet fields (although even the Fens have Ely, which is lovely and well worth a day trip if you've never been.) But yes, if that puts a load of potential visitors off then so much the better. More room for the rest of us to breathe.
    I hear amazing things of north Norfolk (never been): genuine sense of wildness, seals on beaches, superb seafood....

    The East is the untouched corner of the UK, tourist-wise. Probably as it has such a bad rep from a few hideous resorts, from Clacton to Yarmouth, whereas most of it is lovely, and in places like Suffolk, stunning.

    Also, one of the sunniest regions in Britain, alongside south Sussex and the Channel Isles.
    Try renting the Windmill at Cley. Hoste Arms at Burnham Market is a good base too. Marvellous walks all around that coast. Not sure what the best eateries are now - might have to see how they shape up after lockdown ends.

    In autumn, towards dusk you will see skeins of tens of thousands of pink-foot geese coming in to the saltmarsh. One of the best wildlife spectacles in this country.
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just looked at the BBC coverage and someone wrote this:

    "The spacecraft has now entered the Martian atmosphere, at times feeling pressures of about 10 times the gravity of Earth."

    There are times I just want to give up...

    Technically that is entirely correct, if a little misleading.
    Not you too...

    How can a pressure be equal to gravity?
    Isn’t that the definition of a ‘G’?
    Pressure is force/area.

    Force = mass x acceleration

    Gravitational field strength can be expressed either as an acceleration or (more properly) as force/mass.

    It's as if they confused the debt and the deficit only worse.
    The gravitational force equivalent, or, more commonly, g-force, is a measurement of the type of force per unit mass – typically acceleration – that causes a perception of weight, with a g-force of 1 g equal to the conventional value of gravitational acceleration on Earth, g, of about 9.8 m/s2.[1] Since g-forces indirectly produce weight, any g-force can be described as a "weight per unit mass"
    And that is why we don't rely on Wikipedia...
    Blame pilots; they’re always going on about G as a pressure to be endured.
    Ouch...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    felix said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    Were you inspired by SeanT's travel writing ?

    I remember him recommending the same places.
    He's very influential.
    One might even say he has the influence of several men.
    He is writing a new movie "The seven faces of Sean"
    Surely, Seven Characters in Search of the Author?
  • tlg86 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    It’s been mentioned before on here, but Stamford in Lincolnshire is excellent.
    It is.

    Anyone regularly passing it on the A1 really should call in and spend a day there.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Charles said:

    isam said:



    A little bit, most LOTOs generally start of with good ratings usually caused by a higher number of DKs.

    There's been only one LOTO who had consistently positive ratings throughout their tenure, most LOTOs who go on to become PM have ups and down.

    He's doing better than most LOTOs at this point in the cycle of leader/satisfaction ratings but meh in VI scores.

    I genuinely don't know how much pandemic era polling can be used to compare to previous eras.

    SKS is looking old, and a bit dull. It is a real pity he stood, Labour did have much better options.

    SKS seems to be following the Tony Blair picture-book on "How to Win a General Election?"

    But, the thrill just isn't there, anymore.

    It is the same moves, the same foreplay as Tony used, but no-one feels really excited by the prospect of precoital activity with a greying, stolid, almost sixty-year old, lawyer.

    Hard not to forget, we could have had Lisa Nandy or Angela Rayner .... as LOTO :)
    Jess Phillips - a mix of Starmer politics and Corbyn passion. I think that is what Labour need
    A perfect package, save the thick Brummie burr. That'll lose 10 Million votes. I speak as someone with a thick Brummie burr.
    She’s one of very few politicians with genuine charisma. You stop and listen when she speaks. I can’t really think of any others among the present crop of whom that’s true.
    You stop and listen. And then think “my God, I didn’t realise it was possible for anyone to be so vulgar and self-obsessed”
    I could do without vulgarity, generally, but self obsession need not be a deal breaker when it comes to a political figure. A lot of them have huge egos.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    DougSeal said:

    My wife just asked me “why do you go by Doug Seal on that stupid forum”. I had to confess I don’t remember.

    Just after you defended it as not a stupid forum, but a premier political resource, I hope ;)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    Suffolk - magnificent countryside, great pubs, you can go boating on the rivers, and Aldeburgh will give you a little chunk of posh if breezy coastline

    South Devon (as others have said), superb seafood, exquisite villages and countryside, nice climate, Dartmoor to the north for adventure

    The Welsh Marches. Herefordshire is like a quiet English Tuscany. Lost villages, antique churches, almost entirely unspoiled. The Forest of Dean. And.... Tintern Abbey. Oh my word. The Dordogne of England.

    Lincoln: the city. The walk up to the cathedral is spellbinding
    Nice but safe.

    Here's different and cheap:

    Retford - easy to get to, lots of pubs, Robin Hood country, Pilgrim Fathers country, Wellbeck Abbey, not far from Lincoln.

    Bolsover - easy to get to, Bolsover castle, Hardwick Hall, Creswell Crags neolithic site, not far from Peak district.
    Henley-in-Arden. Safe. Rural. Mostly off the tourist radar. Stratford a short drive south, Birmingham north.

    Or the villages south west of Banbury (such as Holt), the same in relation to the Cotswolds and Oxford.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    They missed out the whole of Devon for a start: try anything there (except Plymouth which is a dump).
    Not fair. Although the dockyard was badly blitzed in WW2 and doesn't compare to Portsmouth or Chatham for C18/C19 stuff. The Royal William Victualling Yard, Crownill Fort, and some of the sea coast are a treat.
    Huzzah. A fellow fan. Plymouth is fucking incredible. Seedy, grotty, muscly, and all that, yet AT THE SAME TIME, superbly historic, with amazing architecture, wonderful views, incredible topography, Dartmoor meeting the suburbs, the mighty Tamar dividing everything, and the oldest regular ferry in the world.

    We Brits tend to overlook what we have. Plymouth is a peerless example. Its history along makes it world class, but there is so much more.

    And because it is a bit gritty, it hasn't been turned into St Ives or St Tropez or Nice or Tallinn.
    I have been just reading a book about Gomme, Charles II's engineer, and his design of the Citadel at Plymouth. I want to go back and have a look. But I never got past the MBA aquarium, the first time I visited, watching the baby cuttelfish camouflage themselves like chameleons, and John Dory rotate about its lateral axis to be fed, and flushing white with pleasure, so there we are.

    Crownhill Fort too. Palmerston foll, in superb order.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    Were you inspired by SeanT's travel writing ?

    I remember him recommending the same places.
    He's very influential.
    One might even say he has the influence of several men.
    He is writing a new movie "The seven faces of Sean"
    Surely, Seven Characters in Search of the Author?
    Isn’t it rather an author in search of more than one character?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    They missed out the whole of Devon for a start: try anything there (except Plymouth which is a dump).
    Not fair. Although the dockyard was badly blitzed in WW2 and doesn't compare to Portsmouth or Chatham for C18/C19 stuff. The Royal William Victualling Yard, Crownill Fort, and some of the sea coast are a treat.
    Huzzah. A fellow fan. Plymouth is fucking incredible. Seedy, grotty, muscly, and all that, yet AT THE SAME TIME, superbly historic, with amazing architecture, wonderful views, incredible topography, Dartmoor meeting the suburbs, the mighty Tamar dividing everything, and the oldest regular ferry in the world.

    We Brits tend to overlook what we have. Plymouth is a peerless example. Its history along makes it world class, but there is so much more.

    And because it is a bit gritty, it hasn't been turned into St Ives or St Tropez or Nice or Tallinn.
    Sound.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    I've just looked at the BBC coverage and someone wrote this:

    "The spacecraft has now entered the Martian atmosphere, at times feeling pressures of about 10 times the gravity of Earth."

    There are times I just want to give up...

    Technically that is entirely correct, if a little misleading.
    Not you too...

    How can a pressure be equal to gravity?
    Isn’t that the definition of a ‘G’?
    Pressure is force/area.

    Force = mass x acceleration

    Gravitational field strength can be expressed either as an acceleration or (more properly) as force/mass.

    It's as if they confused the debt and the deficit only worse.
    So like confusing weight and mass?
    Worse. It is more like confusing weight and density.
    He is certainly dense - like an overmixed pound cake.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149

    tlg86 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    It’s been mentioned before on here, but Stamford in Lincolnshire is excellent.
    It is.

    Anyone regularly passing it on the A1 really should call in and spend a day there.
    Agreed. Had, ?still has, a superb transport bookshop in the railway station. (With a case of other books for other halves.)
  • Here it is all about what books you have on your shelves.....in the US.....

    https://twitter.com/owillis/status/1362447650801528836?s=19
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960
    DougSeal said:

    My wife just asked me “why do you go by Doug Seal on that stupid forum”. I had to confess I don’t remember.

    If it helps (it won't), I tend to parse it as Doug's Eel.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Here it is all about what books you have on your shelves.....in the US.....

    https://twitter.com/owillis/status/1362447650801528836?s=19

    I'll never understand why people, even if they feel the 2nd amendment is the most important thing ever and in need of constant defence, feel the need to flaunt the actual weapons quite so much. It's like showing off your favourite toy, we get it, you don't need to have them with you at all times to remind us.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,960
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    They missed out the whole of Devon for a start: try anything there (except Plymouth which is a dump).
    Plymouth is amazing. One of the great medium-sized cities in the world. From the menacing nuke submarines to the Royal William Victualling Yards (like a maritime Versailles) to the historic Barbican to the Plymouth gin distillery to the brothels by seedy, eerie Devonport to the place where the Mayflower set off. Plus a post-war city centre actually done well: like an English version of Fascist modernism (and for all his faults, Mussolini was quite good at buildings)

    I love Plymouth. It is enchanted in good and bad ways. Compelling.
    Don't forget the British Fireworks Championship in August.
  • Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    They missed out the whole of Devon for a start: try anything there (except Plymouth which is a dump).
    Not fair. Although the dockyard was badly blitzed in WW2 and doesn't compare to Portsmouth or Chatham for C18/C19 stuff. The Royal William Victualling Yard, Crownill Fort, and some of the sea coast are a treat.
    Huzzah. A fellow fan. Plymouth is fucking incredible. Seedy, grotty, muscly, and all that, yet AT THE SAME TIME, superbly historic, with amazing architecture, wonderful views, incredible topography, Dartmoor meeting the suburbs, the mighty Tamar dividing everything, and the oldest regular ferry in the world.

    We Brits tend to overlook what we have. Plymouth is a peerless example. Its history along makes it world class, but there is so much more.

    And because it is a bit gritty, it hasn't been turned into St Ives or St Tropez or Nice or Tallinn.
    To be honest, I've only ever been though it on my way to a ferry or to Cornwall.

    Well, I grew up on the other side of Devon, so it was a long way away. If I wanted the bright lights of a big city there was Exeter (or Taunton at a pinch). For those prepared for a long trek up north, the legendary city of Bristol beckoned.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    Endillion said:

    DougSeal said:

    My wife just asked me “why do you go by Doug Seal on that stupid forum”. I had to confess I don’t remember.

    If it helps (it won't), I tend to parse it as Doug's Eel.
    Like it!
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,922

    Here it is all about what books you have on your shelves.....in the US.....

    https://twitter.com/owillis/status/1362447650801528836?s=19

    I understand she owns a restaurant where all the waitresses are armed. I won’t be stopping by next time I’m in Colorado.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    They missed out the whole of Devon for a start: try anything there (except Plymouth which is a dump).
    Plymouth is amazing. One of the great medium-sized cities in the world. From the menacing nuke submarines to the Royal William Victualling Yards (like a maritime Versailles) to the historic Barbican to the Plymouth gin distillery to the brothels by seedy, eerie Devonport to the place where the Mayflower set off. Plus a post-war city centre actually done well: like an English version of Fascist modernism (and for all his faults, Mussolini was quite good at buildings)

    I love Plymouth. It is enchanted in good and bad ways. Compelling.
    Don't forget the British Fireworks Championship in August.
    I went to that once, when it was held near Stafford
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884
    Endillion said:

    DougSeal said:

    My wife just asked me “why do you go by Doug Seal on that stupid forum”. I had to confess I don’t remember.

    If it helps (it won't), I tend to parse it as Doug's Eel.
    I didn’t before, but I will now...
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    DougSeal said:

    My wife just asked me “why do you go by Doug Seal on that stupid forum”. I had to confess I don’t remember.

    'What's so addictive about teaching those weirdos the finer points of employment law? Why can't you just look at porn like everyone else?'
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited February 2021

    Here it is all about what books you have on your shelves.....in the US.....

    https://twitter.com/owillis/status/1362447650801528836?s=19

    I understand she owns a restaurant where all the waitresses are armed. I won’t be stopping by next time I’m in Colorado.
    I take it because it is in a particularly rough area....
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,922
    edited February 2021

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    They missed out the whole of Devon for a start: try anything there (except Plymouth which is a dump).
    Plymouth is amazing. One of the great medium-sized cities in the world. From the menacing nuke submarines to the Royal William Victualling Yards (like a maritime Versailles) to the historic Barbican to the Plymouth gin distillery to the brothels by seedy, eerie Devonport to the place where the Mayflower set off. Plus a post-war city centre actually done well: like an English version of Fascist modernism (and for all his faults, Mussolini was quite good at buildings)

    I love Plymouth. It is enchanted in good and bad ways. Compelling.
    Don't forget the British Fireworks Championship in August.
    I remember that from when I lived in Plymouth. Genuinely awesome. Best free entertainment I’ve ever had.
  • Here it is all about what books you have on your shelves.....in the US.....

    https://twitter.com/owillis/status/1362447650801528836?s=19

    I'm fairly sure that even in the US you are supposed to keep any firearms locked away when not in use. Perhaps that only applies to some states.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    My wife just asked me “why do you go by Doug Seal on that stupid forum”. I had to confess I don’t remember.

    Just after you defended it as not a stupid forum, but a premier political resource, I hope ;)
    She has described it as “stupid” since I explained that in fact very little discussion of wagering on the outcomes of political events takes place. Also (she’s American) after I explained to her HYUFD’s painful insistence on the existence of an English American voting bloc. Said it was one of the most idiotic things she’d ever heard.
  • Early polls for Democratic presidential nomination, of Dems & D leanders, eventual nominee in BOLD

    1972 Democratic
    Gallup poll, January 1969
    Ted Kennedy 45% Hubert Humphrey 22% Eugene McCarthy 7% GEORGE MCGOVERN 1%

    1976 Democratic Presidential Nomination
    Gallup poll, July 1973
    Ted Kennedy 40% George Wallace 16% Edmund Muskie 9% George McGovern 8%

    1992 Democratic Presidential Nomination
    ABC poll, January 1989
    Ted Kennedy 26% Mario Cuomo 19% Mike Dukakis 15% Jesse Jackson 15% Al Gore 6% Bill Bradley 5% Dick Gephardt 4%

    2008 Democratic Presidential Nomination
    Gallup poll, June 2006
    Hillary Clinton 36% Al Gore 16% John Edwards 12% John Kerry 11% Wesley Clark 4% Joe Biden 4% Russ Feingold 3% Mark Warner 2%


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,960
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    Suffolk - magnificent countryside, great pubs, you can go boating on the rivers, and Aldeburgh will give you a little chunk of posh if breezy coastline

    South Devon (as others have said), superb seafood, exquisite villages and countryside, nice climate, Dartmoor to the north for adventure

    The Welsh Marches. Herefordshire is like a quiet English Tuscany. Lost villages, antique churches, almost entirely unspoiled. The Forest of Dean. And.... Tintern Abbey. Oh my word. The Dordogne of England.

    Lincoln: the city. The walk up to the cathedral is spellbinding
    Nice but safe.

    Here's different and cheap:

    Retford - easy to get to, lots of pubs, Robin Hood country, Pilgrim Fathers country, Wellbeck Abbey, not far from Lincoln.

    Bolsover - easy to get to, Bolsover castle, Hardwick Hall, Creswell Crags neolithic site, not far from Peak district.
    Henley-in-Arden. Safe. Rural. Mostly off the tourist radar. Stratford a short drive south, Birmingham north.

    Or the villages south west of Banbury (such as Holt), the same in relation to the Cotswolds and Oxford.
    Henley-in-Arden has Cheals, one of the finest restaurants I have eaten in over the past decade.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    The East tends to be conflated in most people's minds with the Fens: a billiard table flat, dull as ditchwater landscape filled with nothing but thousands and thousands of potato and sugar beet fields (although even the Fens have Ely, which is lovely and well worth a day trip if you've never been.) But yes, if that puts a load of potential visitors off then so much the better. More room for the rest of us to breathe.
    I hear amazing things of north Norfolk (never been): genuine sense of wildness, seals on beaches, superb seafood....

    The East is the untouched corner of the UK, tourist-wise. Probably as it has such a bad rep from a few hideous resorts, from Clacton to Yarmouth, whereas most of it is lovely, and in places like Suffolk, stunning.

    Also, one of the sunniest regions in Britain, alongside south Sussex and the Channel Isles.
    Contestants for the sunniest place in the UK are Ventnor, Shanklin, Eastbourne and Torbay, not anywhere in Suffolk.

    The Channel Islands aren’t in “Britain” anyway.
    Oh god. You're such a dick.

    Three of the top ten warmest AND sunniest places in Britain last year:

    Southend
    Cambridge
    Maldon

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/14040885/hottest-and-sunniest-places-in-uk/#:~:text=SHANKLIN – 262.32 hours of sunshine,beaches on the entire island.
    Indeed. I believe the great county of Essex is the driest in England. And parts of it are amongst the sunniest.
  • On the subject of holidays in the UK, what about a recreation of Three Men in a Boat? Going up the Thames either by boat or even just walking takes you past some amazing places even now.
  • IanB2 said:

    NASA covering for the lack of further photos with a rendition of “Life on Mars”. A news conference on the half hour, then that’s it for the day.

    Thanks for heads up!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,268
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    They missed out the whole of Devon for a start: try anything there (except Plymouth which is a dump).
    Not fair. Although the dockyard was badly blitzed in WW2 and doesn't compare to Portsmouth or Chatham for C18/C19 stuff. The Royal William Victualling Yard, Crownill Fort, and some of the sea coast are a treat.
    Huzzah. A fellow fan. Plymouth is fucking incredible. Seedy, grotty, muscly, and all that, yet AT THE SAME TIME, superbly historic, with amazing architecture, wonderful views, incredible topography, Dartmoor meeting the suburbs, the mighty Tamar dividing everything, and the oldest regular ferry in the world.

    We Brits tend to overlook what we have. Plymouth is a peerless example. Its history along makes it world class, but there is so much more.

    And because it is a bit gritty, it hasn't been turned into St Ives or St Tropez or Nice or Tallinn.
    I have been just reading a book about Gomme, Charles II's engineer, and his design of the Citadel at Plymouth. I want to go back and have a look. But I never got past the MBA aquarium, the first time I visited, watching the baby cuttelfish camouflage themselves like chameleons, and John Dory rotate about its lateral axis to be fed, and flushing white with pleasure, so there we are.

    Crownhill Fort too. Palmerston foll, in superb order.
    Plymouth reminds me a bit of Naples. Because it has this bad reputation people avoid it, so you can enjoy it without crowds of tourists. Yet Naples is superb, one of my favourite "neglected big cities" in Europe, maybe my TOP favourite.

    Even before lockdown you could go to the Capodimonte museum and confront a world class Caravaggio and you'd be the only person in the room. Unthinkable anywhere else. All the trippers have been scared away by tales of theft and the Camorra.

    Likewise the Royal William Victualling Yards in Plymouth. A magnificent piece of high imperial maritime architecture. First drawer stuff. Barely visited. Even before Ye Plague you could visit on a sunny spring day and be almost alone. Because Plymouth is perceived as "grotty"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_William_Victualling_Yard
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,618

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    Suffolk - magnificent countryside, great pubs, you can go boating on the rivers, and Aldeburgh will give you a little chunk of posh if breezy coastline

    South Devon (as others have said), superb seafood, exquisite villages and countryside, nice climate, Dartmoor to the north for adventure

    The Welsh Marches. Herefordshire is like a quiet English Tuscany. Lost villages, antique churches, almost entirely unspoiled. The Forest of Dean. And.... Tintern Abbey. Oh my word. The Dordogne of England.

    Lincoln: the city. The walk up to the cathedral is spellbinding
    Nice but safe.

    Here's different and cheap:

    Retford - easy to get to, lots of pubs, Robin Hood country, Pilgrim Fathers country, Wellbeck Abbey, not far from Lincoln.

    Bolsover - easy to get to, Bolsover castle, Hardwick Hall, Creswell Crags neolithic site, not far from Peak district.
    I once stayed in Retford at a place called the Old Police Station. I was driving up from London to Newcastle in an intense storm and it was the only place I could find with any availability.

    It’s a really nice town.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    Excellent. They've missed off the Hebrides (excepting Skye, and that no longer counts), Sutherland and 90% of the Highlands.

    I hope everybody else does too.
    They've also missed the east of England: East Anglia. Last summer I did an AMAZING roadtrip with the kidz, from spooky Essex estuaries (Osea island) to quaint, lovely Maldon, through gorgeous Lavenham and poetic Bury St Edmunds, via Constable country, to a few nights in Cambridge (arguably the most beautiful small city in the world, and also, maybe, the most fascinating)

    Eastern England is weirdly neglected. Long may it remain so. Marvellous stuff. And great food all the way.
    The East tends to be conflated in most people's minds with the Fens: a billiard table flat, dull as ditchwater landscape filled with nothing but thousands and thousands of potato and sugar beet fields (although even the Fens have Ely, which is lovely and well worth a day trip if you've never been.) But yes, if that puts a load of potential visitors off then so much the better. More room for the rest of us to breathe.
    I hear amazing things of north Norfolk (never been): genuine sense of wildness, seals on beaches, superb seafood....

    The East is the untouched corner of the UK, tourist-wise. Probably as it has such a bad rep from a few hideous resorts, from Clacton to Yarmouth, whereas most of it is lovely, and in places like Suffolk, stunning.

    Also, one of the sunniest regions in Britain, alongside south Sussex and the Channel Isles.
    Contestants for the sunniest place in the UK are Ventnor, Shanklin, Eastbourne and Torbay, not anywhere in Suffolk.

    The Channel Islands aren’t in “Britain” anyway.
    Oh god. You're such a dick.

    Three of the top ten warmest AND sunniest places in Britain last year:

    Southend
    Cambridge
    Maldon

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/14040885/hottest-and-sunniest-places-in-uk/#:~:text=SHANKLIN – 262.32 hours of sunshine,beaches on the entire island.
    Indeed. I believe the great county of Essex is the driest in England. And parts of it are amongst the sunniest.
    The map on this page is a good illustration:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/united-kingdom/articles/uk-extreme-weather/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    Birmingham has to be the best tourist attraction in the UK.
  • Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    Suffolk - magnificent countryside, great pubs, you can go boating on the rivers, and Aldeburgh will give you a little chunk of posh if breezy coastline

    South Devon (as others have said), superb seafood, exquisite villages and countryside, nice climate, Dartmoor to the north for adventure

    The Welsh Marches. Herefordshire is like a quiet English Tuscany. Lost villages, antique churches, almost entirely unspoiled. The Forest of Dean. And.... Tintern Abbey. Oh my word. The Dordogne of England.

    Lincoln: the city. The walk up to the cathedral is spellbinding
    Nice but safe.

    Here's different and cheap:

    Retford - easy to get to, lots of pubs, Robin Hood country, Pilgrim Fathers country, Wellbeck Abbey, not far from Lincoln.

    Bolsover - easy to get to, Bolsover castle, Hardwick Hall, Creswell Crags neolithic site, not far from Peak district.
    I once stayed in Retford at a place called the Old Police Station. I was driving up from London to Newcastle in an intense storm and it was the only place I could find with any availability.

    It’s a really nice town.
    What were you arrested for :wink:
  • MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Entry, descent and landing (EDL) mode will be triggered in four minutes

    Tommy Robinson to take over piloting?
    Right, right, MORE BLOODY RIGHT, I SAID!
  • Cornwall is good. Nice pubs and railways 👍
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    Andy_JS said:

    Birmingham has to be the best tourist attraction in the UK.

    Uttoxeter is lovely, with all of Dovedale and the Peaks more or less on the doorstep.
  • Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    They missed out the whole of Devon for a start: try anything there (except Plymouth which is a dump).
    Not fair. Although the dockyard was badly blitzed in WW2 and doesn't compare to Portsmouth or Chatham for C18/C19 stuff. The Royal William Victualling Yard, Crownill Fort, and some of the sea coast are a treat.
    Huzzah. A fellow fan. Plymouth is fucking incredible. Seedy, grotty, muscly, and all that, yet AT THE SAME TIME, superbly historic, with amazing architecture, wonderful views, incredible topography, Dartmoor meeting the suburbs, the mighty Tamar dividing everything, and the oldest regular ferry in the world.

    We Brits tend to overlook what we have. Plymouth is a peerless example. Its history along makes it world class, but there is so much more.

    And because it is a bit gritty, it hasn't been turned into St Ives or St Tropez or Nice or Tallinn.
    I have been just reading a book about Gomme, Charles II's engineer, and his design of the Citadel at Plymouth. I want to go back and have a look. But I never got past the MBA aquarium, the first time I visited, watching the baby cuttelfish camouflage themselves like chameleons, and John Dory rotate about its lateral axis to be fed, and flushing white with pleasure, so there we are.

    Crownhill Fort too. Palmerston foll, in superb order.
    Plymouth reminds me a bit of Naples. Because it has this bad reputation people avoid it, so you can enjoy it without crowds of tourists. Yet Naples is superb, one of my favourite "neglected big cities" in Europe, maybe my TOP favourite.

    Even before lockdown you could go to the Capodimonte museum and confront a world class Caravaggio and you'd be the only person in the room. Unthinkable anywhere else. All the trippers have been scared away by tales of theft and the Camorra.

    Likewise the Royal William Victualling Yards in Plymouth. A magnificent piece of high imperial maritime architecture. First drawer stuff. Barely visited. Even before Ye Plague you could visit on a sunny spring day and be almost alone. Because Plymouth is perceived as "grotty"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_William_Victualling_Yard
    If you want to contemplate world class art in solitude then the Wallace Collection is great.

    Have you ever been to Hull ?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,087

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    Global travel site Big 7 Travel has released the official 2021 list of the ’25 Best UK Staycations’; the top ten, in order:

    Cornwall – England
    The Lake District – England
    Yorkshire Dales – England
    Edinburgh – Scotland
    Loch Lomond – Scotland
    Isle of Wight – England
    Norfolk Broads – England
    Bath – England
    Ballycastle – Northern Ireland
    Manchester – England

    6. Isle of Wight

    This island off England’s southeast coast is famous for many things, from its stunning sandy beaches to its vibrant local culture and rich prehistoric history. One of the island’s biggest claims to fames is its plethora of fossils that have led to the discovery of more than 25 different dinosaurs that called Isle of Wight home in their day. For more recent history, there’s Queen Victoria’s royal former residence and Italian Renaissance dream in East Cowes, the Osborne House. And for a break from the tranquil sandy beaches, head to The Needles rock formation off the west end of the island.


    11 - Cotswolds
    12 - Snowdonia
    13 - Scilly Isles
    14 - Anglesey
    15 - London (!)
    16 - N Yorks moors
    17 - Pembroke coast
    18 - Orkney
    19 - Brighton
    20 - Skye
    21 - Norwich (?)
    22 - Inverness
    23 - Cardiff
    24 - Derry
    25 - Oxford

    No York ?

    Not only a historic city filled with pubs, shops, restaurants and museums but close to both the Yorkshire Dales and Yorkshire Moors.

    But isn't the list a bit predictable and likely to be both busy and expensive this year ?

    What we need is a list of cheap, unfashionable places which have enough nice restaurants and are within easy reach of pretty places.

    Not necessarily for a whole week but a few days here and a few days there.
    They missed out the whole of Devon for a start: try anything there (except Plymouth which is a dump).
    Not fair. Although the dockyard was badly blitzed in WW2 and doesn't compare to Portsmouth or Chatham for C18/C19 stuff. The Royal William Victualling Yard, Crownill Fort, and some of the sea coast are a treat.
    Huzzah. A fellow fan. Plymouth is fucking incredible. Seedy, grotty, muscly, and all that, yet AT THE SAME TIME, superbly historic, with amazing architecture, wonderful views, incredible topography, Dartmoor meeting the suburbs, the mighty Tamar dividing everything, and the oldest regular ferry in the world.

    We Brits tend to overlook what we have. Plymouth is a peerless example. Its history along makes it world class, but there is so much more.

    And because it is a bit gritty, it hasn't been turned into St Ives or St Tropez or Nice or Tallinn.
    I have been just reading a book about Gomme, Charles II's engineer, and his design of the Citadel at Plymouth. I want to go back and have a look. But I never got past the MBA aquarium, the first time I visited, watching the baby cuttelfish camouflage themselves like chameleons, and John Dory rotate about its lateral axis to be fed, and flushing white with pleasure, so there we are.

    Crownhill Fort too. Palmerston foll, in superb order.
    Plymouth reminds me a bit of Naples. Because it has this bad reputation people avoid it, so you can enjoy it without crowds of tourists. Yet Naples is superb, one of my favourite "neglected big cities" in Europe, maybe my TOP favourite.

    Even before lockdown you could go to the Capodimonte museum and confront a world class Caravaggio and you'd be the only person in the room. Unthinkable anywhere else. All the trippers have been scared away by tales of theft and the Camorra.

    Likewise the Royal William Victualling Yards in Plymouth. A magnificent piece of high imperial maritime architecture. First drawer stuff. Barely visited. Even before Ye Plague you could visit on a sunny spring day and be almost alone. Because Plymouth is perceived as "grotty"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_William_Victualling_Yard
    If you want to contemplate world class art in solitude then the Wallace Collection is great.

    Have you ever been to Hull ?
    One place you’re never going to pass through on the way to somewhere else.
This discussion has been closed.