Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Defcon 1 stachoo pulled down, British society is in crisis! What with Winny’s bust being removed and the special relationship fucked, we may as well start looking out the cyanide pills.
All this is definitely about something other than statues. I'm going to give it some serious thought.
On the topic of queue jumping my Mrs got added to group 2 list today, having previously been group 10, through inclusion in the social care worker category. I'm still stuck in group 9.
A new generation is growing up with the UK outside the EU.
As they did in the 70's when we were the sick man of Europe.
When that happens again there will be a campaign to rejoin, led by a Conservative and Unionist perhaps.
Yes, quite possible. Start your Rejoin party now, like Alan Sked starting UKIP in about 1990. Took him a quarter of a century to get a vote. I remember meeting him back then in a bar in Fitzrovia. Smart guy, bit eccentric, good drinker.
So you should get your Rejoin vote in ~25 years (which seems right: that's a generation). 2040 or so. Good luck - and I mean that genuinely.
Politics relies on people caring about unfashionable causes, and making them fashionable.
To be fair rejoin is fashionable now. Much more fashionable than I expected to be honest. Even I don't support rejoin!
Wasn't there a survey about a week ago which had Rejoin:Remain Out:Don't Know at roughly a third each of the population? In which case the way that the DKs split (which surely depends on how well it ends up going) is going to be pretty important.
It is fundamentally irrelevant to me that Biden's VP is a woman, because Biden literally announced that he wasn't even going to consider anyone for the position who wasn't.
Why do you think Biden made that pledge? And do you think THAT might be relevant?
Interesting to speculate after the fact, IF Uncle Joe's opponent would have done better - possibly enough to win - IF he'd dumped Mike Pence and substituted Nicki Haley?
Personally think the answer is, yes. Perhaps NOT enough to prevail, but then he didn't lose by all that much.
Why? A combination of:
1) Combatting a perceived weakness due to his own dodgy history with women; 2) Doubling down on Trump's pre-existing weakness among female voters; and 3) Political convenience, since large numbers in his own party clearly believed it was important.
Possibly a minor component of believing it was the "right" thing to do of his own accord, but it would still carry a lot more weight with me if he'd simply announced that Harris was the best person for the job. As I recall, there was some speculation at the time he'd privately committed to a BAME VP pick to shore up his primary chances in the South, which effectively means Harris had no competition beyond Stacey Abrams.
All of which may be true. But those kind of considerations are how every vice president has always been chosen. Can't think of a time "the best person for the job" came into it.
That's because the best person for the job usually has better ambitions than being VP, so does not accept the job offer. With a 50-50 Senate Harris will have some power, normally VP is just a title. Before Biden, the previous VPs to become president were Bush Snr, Nixon and LBJ, not a very illustrious bunch (oh and before you complain Ford was never on a VP ticket).
How long is this trial expected to take? This looks potentially amazing.
I don't know, but as the report said 'Perhaps the best way to explain this, is like hand sanitiser but for inside the body'. Last week, and previous to that, I suggested that what we needed was like a topical antiviral but for inside the body - in almost exactly those words. This was dismissed as 'pure fantasy' by certain posters.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Defcon 1 stachoo pulled down, British society is in crisis! What with Winny’s bust being removed and the special relationship fucked, we may as well start looking out the cyanide pills.
My favourite current quote on statues is a Duke of Wellington:
"When my journal appears, many statues must come down."
It's almost as if pulling down statues has a venerable British history...
Except that, since he was neither a barbarian nor a backward philistine, the Iron Duke didn't destroy Canova's monumental statue of Napoleon as Mars Pacifer, but moved it to the staircase of his own home in Apsley House - where it has stood for 200 years to the present day.
CNN Breaking: Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is proposing that the Senate give former President Donald Trump's legal team two weeks to prepare for the upcoming impeachment trial and delay its start until February, the Republican leader told his conference on a call Thursday, according to multiple GOP senators
A new generation is growing up with the UK outside the EU.
As they did in the 70's when we were the sick man of Europe.
When that happens again there will be a campaign to rejoin, led by a Conservative and Unionist perhaps.
Yes, quite possible. Start your Rejoin party now, like Alan Sked starting UKIP in about 1990. Took him a quarter of a century to get a vote. I remember meeting him back then in a bar in Fitzrovia. Smart guy, bit eccentric, good drinker.
So you should get your Rejoin vote in ~25 years (which seems right: that's a generation). 2040 or so. Good luck - and I mean that genuinely.
Politics relies on people caring about unfashionable causes, and making them fashionable.
To be fair rejoin is fashionable now. Much more fashionable than I expected to be honest. Even I don't support rejoin!
Wasn't there a survey about a week ago which had Rejoin:Remain Out:Don't Know at roughly a third each of the population? In which case the way that the DKs split (which surely depends on how well it ends up going) is going to be pretty important.
Yes. I too was surprised how popular Rejoin is already, in Brexits honeymoon period.
It's not going away as an issue, and political time has sped up, the next referendum is a lot closer than 36 years.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Defcon 1 stachoo pulled down, British society is in crisis! What with Winny’s bust being removed and the special relationship fucked, we may as well start looking out the cyanide pills.
My favourite current quote on statues is a Duke of Wellington:
"When my journal appears, many statues must come down."
It's almost as if pulling down statues has a venerable British history...
Except that, since he was neither a barbarian nor a backward philistine, the Iron Duke didn't destroy Canova's monumental statue of Napoleon as Mars Pacifer, but moved it to the staircase of his own home in Apsley House - where it has stood for 200 years to the present day.
He looted it you mean?
The British government purchased it and transferred it to him as a gift via the Prince Regent, so no.
I assume it’s bleach? (Hat tip to Trump if it is...)
That effectively is exactly what it is. As I've said often, he was actually raising a fairly interesting idea - just that it was Trump who said it, so it had to be stupid.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Agreed about Wilberforce, my objection was not to him but to people who big up the UK on the basis of abolishing slavery without putting anything on the debit side for having largely invented it in its then current form.
Portugal beat us to it.
Yes, but it was us that turned it into the triangle trade, with profits on each leg of the journey.
What race were the people *selling* the slaves?
Irrelevant, they wouldn't have been selling if we weren't buying.
Er, for centuries before the West came along, they were selling to "Brown" Islamic slavers. See the history of Zanzibar.
Indeed some historians think far more slaves were sold, in toto, to Islamic countries, than were sold across the Atlantic.
"Current estimates are that about 12 million to 12.8 million Africans were shipped across the Atlantic over a span of 400 years"
"When estimating the number of people enslaved from East Africa, author N'Diaye and French historian Olivier Pétré-Grenouilleau[17][18] estimate 17 million as the total number of people transported from the 7th century until 1920, amounting to an average of 6,000 people per year. "
And that's just the Indian Ocean. Islamic slavers also traded across the desert. and via other routes, and continued to do so until the 1960s. and arguably continue to this day
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Defcon 1 stachoo pulled down, British society is in crisis! What with Winny’s bust being removed and the special relationship fucked, we may as well start looking out the cyanide pills.
My favourite current quote on statues is a Duke of Wellington:
"When my journal appears, many statues must come down."
It's almost as if pulling down statues has a venerable British history...
Except that, since he was neither a barbarian nor a backward philistine, the Iron Duke didn't destroy Canova's monumental statue of Napoleon as Mars Pacifer, but moved it to the staircase of his own home in Apsley House - where it has stood for 200 years to the present day.
He looted it you mean?
Bought by the British government for had cash, IIRC, then given to Wellington
Napoleon himself didn't like it - probably because it was a bit of contrast with the tubby reality of the later Napoleon.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Agreed about Wilberforce, my objection was not to him but to people who big up the UK on the basis of abolishing slavery without putting anything on the debit side for having largely invented it in its then current form.
Portugal beat us to it.
Yes, but it was us that turned it into the triangle trade, with profits on each leg of the journey.
What race were the people *selling* the slaves?
Irrelevant, they wouldn't have been selling if we weren't buying.
City of London Police have discovered and destroyed a "significant" cannabis factory in the heart of London following reports about the strong smell of the plant.
Officers found 826 plants in the basement of a non-residential property on Throgmorton Street in the City of London -- the financial district of the capital and home of the Bank of England, as well as attractions including St Paul's Cathedral and Leadenhall Market.
A new generation is growing up with the UK outside the EU.
As they did in the 70's when we were the sick man of Europe.
When that happens again there will be a campaign to rejoin, led by a Conservative and Unionist perhaps.
Yes, quite possible. Start your Rejoin party now, like Alan Sked starting UKIP in about 1990. Took him a quarter of a century to get a vote. I remember meeting him back then in a bar in Fitzrovia. Smart guy, bit eccentric, good drinker.
So you should get your Rejoin vote in ~25 years (which seems right: that's a generation). 2040 or so. Good luck - and I mean that genuinely.
Politics relies on people caring about unfashionable causes, and making them fashionable.
To be fair rejoin is fashionable now. Much more fashionable than I expected to be honest. Even I don't support rejoin!
Wasn't there a survey about a week ago which had Rejoin:Remain Out:Don't Know at roughly a third each of the population? In which case the way that the DKs split (which surely depends on how well it ends up going) is going to be pretty important.
Yes. I too was surprised how popular Rejoin is already, in Brexits honeymoon period.
It's not going away as an issue, and political time has sped up, the next referendum is a lot closer than 36 years.
Surely 2016 was a once in a generation referendum.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Agreed about Wilberforce, my objection was not to him but to people who big up the UK on the basis of abolishing slavery without putting anything on the debit side for having largely invented it in its then current form.
Portugal beat us to it.
Yes, but it was us that turned it into the triangle trade, with profits on each leg of the journey.
What race were the people *selling* the slaves?
Irrelevant, they wouldn't have been selling if we weren't buying.
Ah, all of a sudden we've found some slavetraders whose identity doesn't matter! Amazing.
Witness the complete tolerance of slavery in modern Africa among those obsessed with the 18th century.
CNN Breaking: Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is proposing that the Senate give former President Donald Trump's legal team two weeks to prepare for the upcoming impeachment trial and delay its start until February, the Republican leader told his conference on a call Thursday, according to multiple GOP senators
CNN Breaking: Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is proposing that the Senate give former President Donald Trump's legal team two weeks to prepare for the upcoming impeachment trial and delay its start until February, the Republican leader told his conference on a call Thursday, according to multiple GOP senators
How long is this trial expected to take? This looks potentially amazing.
I don't know, but as the report said 'Perhaps the best way to explain this, is like hand sanitiser but for inside the body'. Last week, and previous to that, I suggested that what we needed was like a topical antiviral but for inside the body - in almost exactly those words. This was dismissed as 'pure fantasy' by certain posters.
I am not sure I'd class a nasal spray as 'inside the body' though.
How long is this trial expected to take? This looks potentially amazing.
I don't know, but as the report said 'Perhaps the best way to explain this, is like hand sanitiser but for inside the body'. Last week, and previous to that, I suggested that what we needed was like a topical antiviral but for inside the body - in almost exactly those words. This was dismissed as 'pure fantasy' by certain posters.
I am not sure I'd class a nasal spray as 'inside the body' though.
Except they are not actually Yorkshire’s jabs though are they? I mean they don’t have a special label? Or are they being delivered in person by Sean bean? Clearly this is a nation wide supply issue.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Defcon 1 stachoo pulled down, British society is in crisis! What with Winny’s bust being removed and the special relationship fucked, we may as well start looking out the cyanide pills.
My favourite current quote on statues is a Duke of Wellington:
"When my journal appears, many statues must come down."
It's almost as if pulling down statues has a venerable British history...
Except that, since he was neither a barbarian nor a backward philistine, the Iron Duke didn't destroy Canova's monumental statue of Napoleon as Mars Pacifer, but moved it to the staircase of his own home in Apsley House - where it has stood for 200 years to the present day.
How long is this trial expected to take? This looks potentially amazing.
I don't know, but as the report said 'Perhaps the best way to explain this, is like hand sanitiser but for inside the body'. Last week, and previous to that, I suggested that what we needed was like a topical antiviral but for inside the body - in almost exactly those words. This was dismissed as 'pure fantasy' by certain posters.
A better bet is SNG001, which is in Phase 3, and an at home trial in phase 2. This targets the lungs, and looked quite promising in hospital phase 2.
City of London Police have discovered and destroyed a "significant" cannabis factory in the heart of London following reports about the strong smell of the plant.
Officers found 826 plants in the basement of a non-residential property on Throgmorton Street in the City of London -- the financial district of the capital and home of the Bank of England, as well as attractions including St Paul's Cathedral and Leadenhall Market.
A new generation is growing up with the UK outside the EU.
As they did in the 70's when we were the sick man of Europe.
When that happens again there will be a campaign to rejoin, led by a Conservative and Unionist perhaps.
Yes, quite possible. Start your Rejoin party now, like Alan Sked starting UKIP in about 1990. Took him a quarter of a century to get a vote. I remember meeting him back then in a bar in Fitzrovia. Smart guy, bit eccentric, good drinker.
So you should get your Rejoin vote in ~25 years (which seems right: that's a generation). 2040 or so. Good luck - and I mean that genuinely.
Politics relies on people caring about unfashionable causes, and making them fashionable.
To be fair rejoin is fashionable now. Much more fashionable than I expected to be honest. Even I don't support rejoin!
Wasn't there a survey about a week ago which had Rejoin:Remain Out:Don't Know at roughly a third each of the population? In which case the way that the DKs split (which surely depends on how well it ends up going) is going to be pretty important.
Yes. I too was surprised how popular Rejoin is already, in Brexits honeymoon period.
It's not going away as an issue, and political time has sped up, the next referendum is a lot closer than 36 years.
It feels like that now, to you, because you are unusually invested, but it is like a post-coital heartbeat. It will fade.
In my experience the one last thing which really energises Remoaners, still, is the loss of Freedom of Movement. And I get that. I feel it myself. Apart from that, the debate is all technical tarrify stuff which 95% people don't give a fuck about (even if it is important)
The FoM problem can be solved, at some point, by our rejoining a rejigged version of the EEA or EFTA, in a way which benefits both sides. That is certainly foreseeable in the the next decade or so.
But rejoining the political structures of the increasingly Federalised EU? Nope. Not for a long long time, if ever. SO long away, it is not worth thinking about.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Defcon 1 stachoo pulled down, British society is in crisis! What with Winny’s bust being removed and the special relationship fucked, we may as well start looking out the cyanide pills.
My favourite current quote on statues is a Duke of Wellington:
"When my journal appears, many statues must come down."
It's almost as if pulling down statues has a venerable British history...
Except that, since he was neither a barbarian nor a backward philistine, the Iron Duke didn't destroy Canova's monumental statue of Napoleon as Mars Pacifer, but moved it to the staircase of his own home in Apsley House - where it has stood for 200 years to the present day.
He looted it you mean?
Bought by the British government for had cash, IIRC, then given to Wellington
Napoleon himself didn't like it - probably because it was a bit of contrast with the tubby reality of the later Napoleon.
Thanks for that, I'll probably not see it in real-life. It's in Aspley House - English fecking Heritage, so no proper wheelchair access. Grrrr!
I think that's from 44 vaccination days UK and 25 vaccination days EU.
We've done 43% of the vaccinations in total and 38% of the vaccinations "yesterday" (last day reported) - and most reports are within the last day or two.
I assume it’s bleach? (Hat tip to Trump if it is...)
That effectively is exactly what it is. As I've said often, he was actually raising a fairly interesting idea - just that it was Trump who said it, so it had to be stupid.
How long is this trial expected to take? This looks potentially amazing.
I don't know, but as the report said 'Perhaps the best way to explain this, is like hand sanitiser but for inside the body'. Last week, and previous to that, I suggested that what we needed was like a topical antiviral but for inside the body - in almost exactly those words. This was dismissed as 'pure fantasy' by certain posters.
Fair play. I saw those posts. Would be an extraordinary development.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Agreed about Wilberforce, my objection was not to him but to people who big up the UK on the basis of abolishing slavery without putting anything on the debit side for having largely invented it in its then current form.
Portugal beat us to it.
Yes, but it was us that turned it into the triangle trade, with profits on each leg of the journey.
What race were the people *selling* the slaves?
Irrelevant, they wouldn't have been selling if we weren't buying.
They had been for thousands of years.
Do you really not think that we industrialised and exploited the trade?
How long is this trial expected to take? This looks potentially amazing.
I don't know, but as the report said 'Perhaps the best way to explain this, is like hand sanitiser but for inside the body'. Last week, and previous to that, I suggested that what we needed was like a topical antiviral but for inside the body - in almost exactly those words. This was dismissed as 'pure fantasy' by certain posters.
A better bet is SNG001, which is in Phase 3, and an at home trial in phase 2. This targets the lungs, and looked quite promising in hospital phase 2.
They are both very exciting. It was always more than slightly odd that we could kill viruses on the skin with simple chemicals, in a 'one size fits all' scenario, but for treating a viral infection itself, the only surefire way has been to develop vaccines that target specific proteins and inhibit processes unique to Covid-19. And there was nothing in between. I don't think people realise how revolutionary these types of treatments could be - it literally won't matter how a virus mutates, or which virus the sufferer has. Thankfully some people have the ability to indulge in 'pure fantasy' which is what you do before you improve things.
A new generation is growing up with the UK outside the EU.
As they did in the 70's when we were the sick man of Europe.
When that happens again there will be a campaign to rejoin, led by a Conservative and Unionist perhaps.
Yes, quite possible. Start your Rejoin party now, like Alan Sked starting UKIP in about 1990. Took him a quarter of a century to get a vote. I remember meeting him back then in a bar in Fitzrovia. Smart guy, bit eccentric, good drinker.
So you should get your Rejoin vote in ~25 years (which seems right: that's a generation). 2040 or so. Good luck - and I mean that genuinely.
Politics relies on people caring about unfashionable causes, and making them fashionable.
To be fair rejoin is fashionable now. Much more fashionable than I expected to be honest. Even I don't support rejoin!
Wasn't there a survey about a week ago which had Rejoin:Remain Out:Don't Know at roughly a third each of the population? In which case the way that the DKs split (which surely depends on how well it ends up going) is going to be pretty important.
Yes. I too was surprised how popular Rejoin is already, in Brexits honeymoon period.
It's not going away as an issue, and political time has sped up, the next referendum is a lot closer than 36 years.
It feels like that now, to you, because you are unusually invested, but it is like a post-coital heartbeat. It will fade.
In my experience the one last thing which really energises Remoaners, still, is the loss of Freedom of Movement. And I get that. I feel it myself. Apart from that, the debate is all technical tarrify stuff which 95% people don't give a fuck about (even if it is important)
The FoM problem can be solved, at some point, by our rejoining a rejigged version of the EEA or EFTA, in a way which benefits both sides. That is certainly foreseeable in the the next decade or so.
But rejoining the political structures of the increasingly Federalised EU? Nope. Not for a long long time, if ever. SO long away, it is not worth thinking about.
I think rejoining the Single Market including FoM will be a very active topic in the next Parliament, if not at the next election. It is a necessary first step, but once we are in the SM, having a say in writing the rules will become the next step.
I assume it’s bleach? (Hat tip to Trump if it is...)
That effectively is exactly what it is. As I've said often, he was actually raising a fairly interesting idea - just that it was Trump who said it, so it had to be stupid.
No it isn't. It's nitric oxide.
Trump didn't mention bleach either, he mentioned 'disinfectant'. It was made into bleach by the Twatteriat.
How long is this trial expected to take? This looks potentially amazing.
I don't know, but as the report said 'Perhaps the best way to explain this, is like hand sanitiser but for inside the body'. Last week, and previous to that, I suggested that what we needed was like a topical antiviral but for inside the body - in almost exactly those words. This was dismissed as 'pure fantasy' by certain posters.
A better bet is SNG001, which is in Phase 3, and an at home trial in phase 2. This targets the lungs, and looked quite promising in hospital phase 2.
How long is this trial expected to take? This looks potentially amazing.
I don't know, but as the report said 'Perhaps the best way to explain this, is like hand sanitiser but for inside the body'. Last week, and previous to that, I suggested that what we needed was like a topical antiviral but for inside the body - in almost exactly those words. This was dismissed as 'pure fantasy' by certain posters.
A better bet is SNG001, which is in Phase 3, and an at home trial in phase 2. This targets the lungs, and looked quite promising in hospital phase 2.
I assume it’s bleach? (Hat tip to Trump if it is...)
That effectively is exactly what it is. As I've said often, he was actually raising a fairly interesting idea - just that it was Trump who said it, so it had to be stupid.
No it isn't. It's nitric oxide.
Trump didn't mention bleach either, he mentioned 'disinfectant'. It was made into bleach by the Twatteriat.
The point was less about whether it was an idea worth researching, and more about the irresponsibility of saying things which could easily be misinterpreted and result in Death by Bleach.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Agreed about Wilberforce, my objection was not to him but to people who big up the UK on the basis of abolishing slavery without putting anything on the debit side for having largely invented it in its then current form.
Portugal beat us to it.
Yes, but it was us that turned it into the triangle trade, with profits on each leg of the journey.
What race were the people *selling* the slaves?
Irrelevant, they wouldn't have been selling if we weren't buying.
They had been for thousands of years.
Do you really not think that we industrialised and exploited the trade?
Slavery is wrong. The slave trade was wrong. It doesn’t matter whether it was 1 or a 1,000.
A new generation is growing up with the UK outside the EU.
As they did in the 70's when we were the sick man of Europe.
When that happens again there will be a campaign to rejoin, led by a Conservative and Unionist perhaps.
Yes, quite possible. Start your Rejoin party now, like Alan Sked starting UKIP in about 1990. Took him a quarter of a century to get a vote. I remember meeting him back then in a bar in Fitzrovia. Smart guy, bit eccentric, good drinker.
So you should get your Rejoin vote in ~25 years (which seems right: that's a generation). 2040 or so. Good luck - and I mean that genuinely.
Politics relies on people caring about unfashionable causes, and making them fashionable.
To be fair rejoin is fashionable now. Much more fashionable than I expected to be honest. Even I don't support rejoin!
Wasn't there a survey about a week ago which had Rejoin:Remain Out:Don't Know at roughly a third each of the population? In which case the way that the DKs split (which surely depends on how well it ends up going) is going to be pretty important.
Yes. I too was surprised how popular Rejoin is already, in Brexits honeymoon period.
It's not going away as an issue, and political time has sped up, the next referendum is a lot closer than 36 years.
Quebec had referendums only 15 years apart - 1980 and 1995.
How long is this trial expected to take? This looks potentially amazing.
I don't know, but as the report said 'Perhaps the best way to explain this, is like hand sanitiser but for inside the body'. Last week, and previous to that, I suggested that what we needed was like a topical antiviral but for inside the body - in almost exactly those words. This was dismissed as 'pure fantasy' by certain posters.
A better bet is SNG001, which is in Phase 3, and an at home trial in phase 2. This targets the lungs, and looked quite promising in hospital phase 2.
Because of its non-antibody action SNG001 will work equally well on all mutations to the Spike protein, Indeed on other respiratory viruses too. It has previously been shown to be well tolerated in COPD patients. Certainly one to watch. From the University of Southampton btw.
It is fundamentally irrelevant to me that Biden's VP is a woman, because Biden literally announced that he wasn't even going to consider anyone for the position who wasn't.
Why do you think Biden made that pledge? And do you think THAT might be relevant?
Interesting to speculate after the fact, IF Uncle Joe's opponent would have done better - possibly enough to win - IF he'd dumped Mike Pence and substituted Nicki Haley?
Personally think the answer is, yes. Perhaps NOT enough to prevail, but then he didn't lose by all that much.
Why? A combination of:
1) Combatting a perceived weakness due to his own dodgy history with women; 2) Doubling down on Trump's pre-existing weakness among female voters; and 3) Political convenience, since large numbers in his own party clearly believed it was important.
Possibly a minor component of believing it was the "right" thing to do of his own accord, but it would still carry a lot more weight with me if he'd simply announced that Harris was the best person for the job. As I recall, there was some speculation at the time he'd privately committed to a BAME VP pick to shore up his primary chances in the South, which effectively means Harris had no competition beyond Stacey Abrams.
Its called politics & votes. That's why such decisions are made
A new generation is growing up with the UK outside the EU.
As they did in the 70's when we were the sick man of Europe.
When that happens again there will be a campaign to rejoin, led by a Conservative and Unionist perhaps.
Yes, quite possible. Start your Rejoin party now, like Alan Sked starting UKIP in about 1990. Took him a quarter of a century to get a vote. I remember meeting him back then in a bar in Fitzrovia. Smart guy, bit eccentric, good drinker.
So you should get your Rejoin vote in ~25 years (which seems right: that's a generation). 2040 or so. Good luck - and I mean that genuinely.
Politics relies on people caring about unfashionable causes, and making them fashionable.
To be fair rejoin is fashionable now. Much more fashionable than I expected to be honest. Even I don't support rejoin!
Wasn't there a survey about a week ago which had Rejoin:Remain Out:Don't Know at roughly a third each of the population? In which case the way that the DKs split (which surely depends on how well it ends up going) is going to be pretty important.
Yes. I too was surprised how popular Rejoin is already, in Brexits honeymoon period.
It's not going away as an issue, and political time has sped up, the next referendum is a lot closer than 36 years.
It feels like that now, to you, because you are unusually invested, but it is like a post-coital heartbeat. It will fade.
In my experience the one last thing which really energises Remoaners, still, is the loss of Freedom of Movement. And I get that. I feel it myself. Apart from that, the debate is all technical tarrify stuff which 95% people don't give a fuck about (even if it is important)
The FoM problem can be solved, at some point, by our rejoining a rejigged version of the EEA or EFTA, in a way which benefits both sides. That is certainly foreseeable in the the next decade or so.
But rejoining the political structures of the increasingly Federalised EU? Nope. Not for a long long time, if ever. SO long away, it is not worth thinking about.
I think rejoining the Single Market including FoM will be a very active topic in the next Parliament, if not at the next election. It is a necessary first step, but once we are in the SM, having a say in writing the rules will become the next step.
Perhaps. What we need is a bespoke agreement with the EU (which was what Cameron sought, but failed to get).
They need to recognise that we are an unusually important, advanced, valuable market on their doorstep (we are not Turkey, Bosnia or the Ukraine, to be blunt). We need to accept the SM comes with rules, so we can benefit from that, and we need to accept FoM because many of us want FoM.
But. There will be a looooong period of calmdown and readjustment before either side is willing to return to the fray, however. It is just natural. It took us four years to bloody Brexit. I suspect it will be a decade before SM membership and EEA status (or whatever it is is then) is on the agenda. Starmer is not going to put it in his 2024 manifesto (as he has already said) so that's 2029 at the earliest.
And of course by then history (as Covid teaches us) may have gone in an entirely different direction and all this may seem utterly irrelevant.
As a doctor of the human soul I advise you to put away your dreams of Rejoin in your Lifetime. They are really rather unlikely to happen, and will only cause you heartbreak, interim. Focus on what's good about your life. And do HIIT every day.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Agreed about Wilberforce, my objection was not to him but to people who big up the UK on the basis of abolishing slavery without putting anything on the debit side for having largely invented it in its then current form.
Portugal beat us to it.
Yes, but it was us that turned it into the triangle trade, with profits on each leg of the journey.
What race were the people *selling* the slaves?
Irrelevant, they wouldn't have been selling if we weren't buying.
They had been for thousands of years.
Do you really not think that we industrialised and exploited the trade?
Slavery is wrong. The slave trade was wrong. It doesn’t matter whether it was 1 or a 1,000.
I assume it’s bleach? (Hat tip to Trump if it is...)
That effectively is exactly what it is. As I've said often, he was actually raising a fairly interesting idea - just that it was Trump who said it, so it had to be stupid.
No it isn't. It's nitric oxide.
Trump didn't mention bleach either, he mentioned 'disinfectant'. It was made into bleach by the Twatteriat.
The point was less about whether it was an idea worth researching, and more about the irresponsibility of saying things which could easily be misinterpreted and result in Death by Bleach.
I can't find anything he said that would encourage death by bleach - if anything, the fuckwittery of the response following his statements could have done that, for instance, Sturgeon warning everyone not to 'inGEST disinfectant' - not only spreading the statement but in falsifying it, making it into something we can all do if we've got a spare 5 minutes.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Agreed about Wilberforce, my objection was not to him but to people who big up the UK on the basis of abolishing slavery without putting anything on the debit side for having largely invented it in its then current form.
Portugal beat us to it.
Yes, but it was us that turned it into the triangle trade, with profits on each leg of the journey.
What race were the people *selling* the slaves?
Irrelevant, they wouldn't have been selling if we weren't buying.
They had been for thousands of years.
Do you really not think that we industrialised and exploited the trade?
Slavery is wrong. The slave trade was wrong. It doesn’t matter whether it was 1 or a 1,000.
Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb?
Antisemitism is wrong. Murdering Jews is wrong. Doesn’t matter if it was 1 or 6 million.
A new generation is growing up with the UK outside the EU.
As they did in the 70's when we were the sick man of Europe.
When that happens again there will be a campaign to rejoin, led by a Conservative and Unionist perhaps.
Yes, quite possible. Start your Rejoin party now, like Alan Sked starting UKIP in about 1990. Took him a quarter of a century to get a vote. I remember meeting him back then in a bar in Fitzrovia. Smart guy, bit eccentric, good drinker.
So you should get your Rejoin vote in ~25 years (which seems right: that's a generation). 2040 or so. Good luck - and I mean that genuinely.
Politics relies on people caring about unfashionable causes, and making them fashionable.
To be fair rejoin is fashionable now. Much more fashionable than I expected to be honest. Even I don't support rejoin!
Wasn't there a survey about a week ago which had Rejoin:Remain Out:Don't Know at roughly a third each of the population? In which case the way that the DKs split (which surely depends on how well it ends up going) is going to be pretty important.
Yes. I too was surprised how popular Rejoin is already, in Brexits honeymoon period.
It's not going away as an issue, and political time has sped up, the next referendum is a lot closer than 36 years.
It feels like that now, to you, because you are unusually invested, but it is like a post-coital heartbeat. It will fade.
In my experience the one last thing which really energises Remoaners, still, is the loss of Freedom of Movement. And I get that. I feel it myself. Apart from that, the debate is all technical tarrify stuff which 95% people don't give a fuck about (even if it is important)
The FoM problem can be solved, at some point, by our rejoining a rejigged version of the EEA or EFTA, in a way which benefits both sides. That is certainly foreseeable in the the next decade or so.
But rejoining the political structures of the increasingly Federalised EU? Nope. Not for a long long time, if ever. SO long away, it is not worth thinking about.
Interesting.
Funnily enough, I can see FoM being one of the last bits to fall into place, because it's so visible and totemic to a chunk of the Brexit base. The boring stuff (we don't really want the faff of our own chemical safety standards, do we? So we might as well piggyback on the Euro ones, and I suspect business will prefer it) might well come first. Possibly some bits even before 2024.
And then, EEA (or more likely "I can't believe it's not EEA") in a decade or so seems sensible; it's what I'd nudge for next.
And then the question is whether the UK wants to be involved in making decisions, or be a recipient of the decisions made by others. "Of course the UK doesn't have to do these things, it could leave the EEA arrangement, because that went so well for you in 2020, ho ho..." But yeah, that's a way in the future.
And for now, the important thing is to try and make the Johnson plan work. Because there isn't much of a bank of goodwill if it turns out to be inoperable in practice.
A new generation is growing up with the UK outside the EU.
As they did in the 70's when we were the sick man of Europe.
When that happens again there will be a campaign to rejoin, led by a Conservative and Unionist perhaps.
Yes, quite possible. Start your Rejoin party now, like Alan Sked starting UKIP in about 1990. Took him a quarter of a century to get a vote. I remember meeting him back then in a bar in Fitzrovia. Smart guy, bit eccentric, good drinker.
So you should get your Rejoin vote in ~25 years (which seems right: that's a generation). 2040 or so. Good luck - and I mean that genuinely.
Politics relies on people caring about unfashionable causes, and making them fashionable.
To be fair rejoin is fashionable now. Much more fashionable than I expected to be honest. Even I don't support rejoin!
Wasn't there a survey about a week ago which had Rejoin:Remain Out:Don't Know at roughly a third each of the population? In which case the way that the DKs split (which surely depends on how well it ends up going) is going to be pretty important.
Yes. I too was surprised how popular Rejoin is already, in Brexits honeymoon period.
It's not going away as an issue, and political time has sped up, the next referendum is a lot closer than 36 years.
It feels like that now, to you, because you are unusually invested, but it is like a post-coital heartbeat. It will fade.
In my experience the one last thing which really energises Remoaners, still, is the loss of Freedom of Movement. And I get that. I feel it myself. Apart from that, the debate is all technical tarrify stuff which 95% people don't give a fuck about (even if it is important)
The FoM problem can be solved, at some point, by our rejoining a rejigged version of the EEA or EFTA, in a way which benefits both sides. That is certainly foreseeable in the the next decade or so.
But rejoining the political structures of the increasingly Federalised EU? Nope. Not for a long long time, if ever. SO long away, it is not worth thinking about.
I think rejoining the Single Market including FoM will be a very active topic in the next Parliament, if not at the next election. It is a necessary first step, but once we are in the SM, having a say in writing the rules will become the next step.
Perhaps. What we need is a bespoke agreement with the EU (which was what Cameron sought, but failed to get).
They need to recognise that we are an unusually important, advanced, valuable market on their doorstep (we are not Turkey, Bosnia or the Ukraine, to be blunt). We need to accept the SM comes with rules, so we can benefit from that, and we need to accept FoM because many of us want FoM.
But. There will be a looooong period of calmdown and readjustment before either side is willing to return to the fray, however. It is just natural. It took us four years to bloody Brexit. I suspect it will be a decade before SM membership and EEA status (or whatever it is is then) is on the agenda. Starmer is not going to put it in his 2024 manifesto (as he has already said) so that's 2029 at the earliest.
And of course by then history (as Covid teaches us) may have gone in an entirely different direction and all this may seem utterly irrelevant.
As a doctor of the human soul I advise you to put away your dreams of Rejoin in your Lifetime. They are really rather unlikely to happen, and will only cause you heartbreak, interim. Focus on what's good about your life. And do HIIT every day.
.
Nah, Brexit is a crock of shit, and I won't stop saying so.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Agreed about Wilberforce, my objection was not to him but to people who big up the UK on the basis of abolishing slavery without putting anything on the debit side for having largely invented it in its then current form.
Portugal beat us to it.
Yes, but it was us that turned it into the triangle trade, with profits on each leg of the journey.
What race were the people *selling* the slaves?
Irrelevant, they wouldn't have been selling if we weren't buying.
They had been for thousands of years.
Do you really not think that we industrialised and exploited the trade?
Slavery is wrong. The slave trade was wrong. It doesn’t matter whether it was 1 or a 1,000.
Numbers do matter, tho.
Killing Jews just because they are Jews is wrong. Obvs.
If Hitler had killed 6 Jews, he'd be an unsavoury footnote in criminological history. A shooter in a synagogue. Ugh.
A new generation is growing up with the UK outside the EU.
As they did in the 70's when we were the sick man of Europe.
When that happens again there will be a campaign to rejoin, led by a Conservative and Unionist perhaps.
Yes, quite possible. Start your Rejoin party now, like Alan Sked starting UKIP in about 1990. Took him a quarter of a century to get a vote. I remember meeting him back then in a bar in Fitzrovia. Smart guy, bit eccentric, good drinker.
So you should get your Rejoin vote in ~25 years (which seems right: that's a generation). 2040 or so. Good luck - and I mean that genuinely.
Politics relies on people caring about unfashionable causes, and making them fashionable.
To be fair rejoin is fashionable now. Much more fashionable than I expected to be honest. Even I don't support rejoin!
Wasn't there a survey about a week ago which had Rejoin:Remain Out:Don't Know at roughly a third each of the population? In which case the way that the DKs split (which surely depends on how well it ends up going) is going to be pretty important.
Yes. I too was surprised how popular Rejoin is already, in Brexits honeymoon period.
It's not going away as an issue, and political time has sped up, the next referendum is a lot closer than 36 years.
It feels like that now, to you, because you are unusually invested, but it is like a post-coital heartbeat. It will fade.
In my experience the one last thing which really energises Remoaners, still, is the loss of Freedom of Movement. And I get that. I feel it myself. Apart from that, the debate is all technical tarrify stuff which 95% people don't give a fuck about (even if it is important)
The FoM problem can be solved, at some point, by our rejoining a rejigged version of the EEA or EFTA, in a way which benefits both sides. That is certainly foreseeable in the the next decade or so.
But rejoining the political structures of the increasingly Federalised EU? Nope. Not for a long long time, if ever. SO long away, it is not worth thinking about.
I think rejoining the Single Market including FoM will be a very active topic in the next Parliament, if not at the next election. It is a necessary first step, but once we are in the SM, having a say in writing the rules will become the next step.
Perhaps. What we need is a bespoke agreement with the EU (which was what Cameron sought, but failed to get).
They need to recognise that we are an unusually important, advanced, valuable market on their doorstep (we are not Turkey, Bosnia or the Ukraine, to be blunt). We need to accept the SM comes with rules, so we can benefit from that, and we need to accept FoM because many of us want FoM.
But. There will be a looooong period of calmdown and readjustment before either side is willing to return to the fray, however. It is just natural. It took us four years to bloody Brexit. I suspect it will be a decade before SM membership and EEA status (or whatever it is is then) is on the agenda. Starmer is not going to put it in his 2024 manifesto (as he has already said) so that's 2029 at the earliest.
And of course by then history (as Covid teaches us) may have gone in an entirely different direction and all this may seem utterly irrelevant.
As a doctor of the human soul I advise you to put away your dreams of Rejoin in your Lifetime. They are really rather unlikely to happen, and will only cause you heartbreak, interim. Focus on what's good about your life. And do HIIT every day.
.
Nah, Brexit is a crock of shit, and I won't stop saying so.
Oh dear. I am here to help, if ever you need it. Even if it is just a sniffle.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Agreed about Wilberforce, my objection was not to him but to people who big up the UK on the basis of abolishing slavery without putting anything on the debit side for having largely invented it in its then current form.
Portugal beat us to it.
Yes, but it was us that turned it into the triangle trade, with profits on each leg of the journey.
What race were the people *selling* the slaves?
Irrelevant, they wouldn't have been selling if we weren't buying.
They had been for thousands of years.
Do you really not think that we industrialised and exploited the trade?
Slavery is wrong. The slave trade was wrong. It doesn’t matter whether it was 1 or a 1,000.
Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb?
Antisemitism is wrong. Murdering Jews is wrong. Doesn’t matter if it was 1 or 6 million.
Moral absolutes are moral absolutes
I’m not giving someone a pass because they’re not white Europeans
City of London Police have discovered and destroyed a "significant" cannabis factory in the heart of London following reports about the strong smell of the plant.
Officers found 826 plants in the basement of a non-residential property on Throgmorton Street in the City of London -- the financial district of the capital and home of the Bank of England, as well as attractions including St Paul's Cathedral and Leadenhall Market.
Is this really their priority at the moment?
City of London police will have little to do, its a tiny area they cover that will be way down in population as both daytime and night-time economy are dead there. I am not in favour of cannabis being illegal, but why have laws if law breaking on an industrial scale is not worthy of being tackled?
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Defcon 1 stachoo pulled down, British society is in crisis! What with Winny’s bust being removed and the special relationship fucked, we may as well start looking out the cyanide pills.
My favourite current quote on statues is a Duke of Wellington:
"When my journal appears, many statues must come down."
It's almost as if pulling down statues has a venerable British history...
Except that, since he was neither a barbarian nor a backward philistine, the Iron Duke didn't destroy Canova's monumental statue of Napoleon as Mars Pacifer, but moved it to the staircase of his own home in Apsley House - where it has stood for 200 years to the present day.
He looted it you mean?
Bought by the British government for had cash, IIRC, then given to Wellington
Napoleon himself didn't like it - probably because it was a bit of contrast with the tubby reality of the later Napoleon.
Thanks for that, I'll probably not see it in real-life. It's in Aspley House - English fecking Heritage, so no proper wheelchair access. Grrrr!
The photograph actually makes it look smaller. In real life it looks ridiculously big for the stairwell.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Sometimes I like to speculate what about our society today will be condemned when the shifting moral zeitgeist has moved on.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Agreed about Wilberforce, my objection was not to him but to people who big up the UK on the basis of abolishing slavery without putting anything on the debit side for having largely invented it in its then current form.
Portugal beat us to it.
Yes, but it was us that turned it into the triangle trade, with profits on each leg of the journey.
What race were the people *selling* the slaves?
Irrelevant, they wouldn't have been selling if we weren't buying.
They had been for thousands of years.
Do you really not think that we industrialised and exploited the trade?
Slavery is wrong. The slave trade was wrong. It doesn’t matter whether it was 1 or a 1,000.
Numbers do matter, tho.
Killing Jews just because they are Jews is wrong. Obvs.
If Hitler had killed 6 Jews, he'd be an unsavoury footnote in criminological history. A shooter in a synagogue. Ugh.
He killed six million. OMFG.
Of course.
But @foxy seems content to place all the blame for slavery on a small group of participants in a deeply unpleasant trade
How long is this trial expected to take? This looks potentially amazing.
I don't know, but as the report said 'Perhaps the best way to explain this, is like hand sanitiser but for inside the body'. Last week, and previous to that, I suggested that what we needed was like a topical antiviral but for inside the body - in almost exactly those words. This was dismissed as 'pure fantasy' by certain posters.
A better bet is SNG001, which is in Phase 3, and an at home trial in phase 2. This targets the lungs, and looked quite promising in hospital phase 2.
A new generation is growing up with the UK outside the EU.
As they did in the 70's when we were the sick man of Europe.
When that happens again there will be a campaign to rejoin, led by a Conservative and Unionist perhaps.
Yes, quite possible. Start your Rejoin party now, like Alan Sked starting UKIP in about 1990. Took him a quarter of a century to get a vote. I remember meeting him back then in a bar in Fitzrovia. Smart guy, bit eccentric, good drinker.
So you should get your Rejoin vote in ~25 years (which seems right: that's a generation). 2040 or so. Good luck - and I mean that genuinely.
Politics relies on people caring about unfashionable causes, and making them fashionable.
To be fair rejoin is fashionable now. Much more fashionable than I expected to be honest. Even I don't support rejoin!
Wasn't there a survey about a week ago which had Rejoin:Remain Out:Don't Know at roughly a third each of the population? In which case the way that the DKs split (which surely depends on how well it ends up going) is going to be pretty important.
Yes. I too was surprised how popular Rejoin is already, in Brexits honeymoon period.
It's not going away as an issue, and political time has sped up, the next referendum is a lot closer than 36 years.
It feels like that now, to you, because you are unusually invested, but it is like a post-coital heartbeat. It will fade.
In my experience the one last thing which really energises Remoaners, still, is the loss of Freedom of Movement. And I get that. I feel it myself. Apart from that, the debate is all technical tarrify stuff which 95% people don't give a fuck about (even if it is important)
The FoM problem can be solved, at some point, by our rejoining a rejigged version of the EEA or EFTA, in a way which benefits both sides. That is certainly foreseeable in the the next decade or so.
But rejoining the political structures of the increasingly Federalised EU? Nope. Not for a long long time, if ever. SO long away, it is not worth thinking about.
I think rejoining the Single Market including FoM will be a very active topic in the next Parliament, if not at the next election. It is a necessary first step, but once we are in the SM, having a say in writing the rules will become the next step.
Perhaps. What we need is a bespoke agreement with the EU (which was what Cameron sought, but failed to get).
They need to recognise that we are an unusually important, advanced, valuable market on their doorstep (we are not Turkey, Bosnia or the Ukraine, to be blunt). We need to accept the SM comes with rules, so we can benefit from that, and we need to accept FoM because many of us want FoM.
But. There will be a looooong period of calmdown and readjustment before either side is willing to return to the fray, however. It is just natural. It took us four years to bloody Brexit. I suspect it will be a decade before SM membership and EEA status (or whatever it is is then) is on the agenda. Starmer is not going to put it in his 2024 manifesto (as he has already said) so that's 2029 at the earliest.
And of course by then history (as Covid teaches us) may have gone in an entirely different direction and all this may seem utterly irrelevant.
As a doctor of the human soul I advise you to put away your dreams of Rejoin in your Lifetime. They are really rather unlikely to happen, and will only cause you heartbreak, interim. Focus on what's good about your life. And do HIIT every day.
.
Nah, Brexit is a crock of shit, and I won't stop saying so.
Oh dear. I am here to help, if ever you need it. Even if it is just a sniffle.
Nah, I am enjoying my popcorn on the Brexit issue. Glad I am not in an export industry!
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Agreed about Wilberforce, my objection was not to him but to people who big up the UK on the basis of abolishing slavery without putting anything on the debit side for having largely invented it in its then current form.
Portugal beat us to it.
Yes, but it was us that turned it into the triangle trade, with profits on each leg of the journey.
What race were the people *selling* the slaves?
Irrelevant, they wouldn't have been selling if we weren't buying.
They had been for thousands of years.
Do you really not think that we industrialised and exploited the trade?
Slavery is wrong. The slave trade was wrong. It doesn’t matter whether it was 1 or a 1,000.
Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb?
Antisemitism is wrong. Murdering Jews is wrong. Doesn’t matter if it was 1 or 6 million.
Moral absolutes are moral absolutes
I’m not giving someone a pass because they’re not white Europeans
Only one person wanting to give people a pass as far as I can see.
Nitric Oxide is quite the training aid as well. Never used it but do know people who say its helps them no end in the gym. You can see how its vasodilation can help the lungs and seems very well tolerated.
I assume it’s bleach? (Hat tip to Trump if it is...)
That effectively is exactly what it is. As I've said often, he was actually raising a fairly interesting idea - just that it was Trump who said it, so it had to be stupid.
No it isn't. It's nitric oxide.
Trump didn't mention bleach either, he mentioned 'disinfectant'. It was made into bleach by the Twatteriat.
The point was less about whether it was an idea worth researching, and more about the irresponsibility of saying things which could easily be misinterpreted and result in Death by Bleach.
I can't find anything he said that would encourage death by bleach - if anything, the fuckwittery of the response following his statements could have done that, for instance, Sturgeon warning everyone not to 'inGEST disinfectant' - not only spreading the statement but in falsifying it, making it into something we can all do if we've got a spare 5 minutes.
You're overestimating the American people. Several officials in the US clearly thought that Trump's comments were likely to lead to people trying dumb things with bleach, and so it proved: https://time.com/5835244/accidental-poisonings-trump/
Sturgeon I'm happy to agree was just bandwagon jumping, but I can't imagine too many Americans would have taken much notice.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Agreed about Wilberforce, my objection was not to him but to people who big up the UK on the basis of abolishing slavery without putting anything on the debit side for having largely invented it in its then current form.
Portugal beat us to it.
Yes, but it was us that turned it into the triangle trade, with profits on each leg of the journey.
What race were the people *selling* the slaves?
Irrelevant, they wouldn't have been selling if we weren't buying.
They had been for thousands of years.
Do you really not think that we industrialised and exploited the trade?
Slavery is wrong. The slave trade was wrong. It doesn’t matter whether it was 1 or a 1,000.
Numbers do matter, tho.
Killing Jews just because they are Jews is wrong. Obvs.
If Hitler had killed 6 Jews, he'd be an unsavoury footnote in criminological history. A shooter in a synagogue. Ugh.
He killed six million. OMFG.
Of course.
But @foxy seems content to place all the blame for slavery on a small group of participants in a deeply unpleasant trade
No, but I do not think that we can evade guilt by whataboutery. Undeniably we industrialised the triangle trade.
It wasn't just a small number of people involved either, it was a core piece of our economy in the seventeenth and eighteenth century, until the dawning of the industrial era. The reason why the slavers statues are so contentious is because these were typical of the aristocracy and wealthy of the period, from the King down.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Agreed about Wilberforce, my objection was not to him but to people who big up the UK on the basis of abolishing slavery without putting anything on the debit side for having largely invented it in its then current form.
Portugal beat us to it.
Yes, but it was us that turned it into the triangle trade, with profits on each leg of the journey.
What race were the people *selling* the slaves?
Irrelevant, they wouldn't have been selling if we weren't buying.
They had been for thousands of years.
Do you really not think that we industrialised and exploited the trade?
Slavery is wrong. The slave trade was wrong. It doesn’t matter whether it was 1 or a 1,000.
Hmm. I feel like that is technically true, and I think the sidestepping of longstanding slave trading in other places is a bit weird, yet I also cannot but help feel that the vastness of the trade by us during that period was particularly egregious.
On the issue of 'bigging up' the abolishment of slavery, my general take has been that nothing can be done to make up for such heinousness as took place, so abolishment and seeking to stop others trading slaves is the most that can be done, and its just natural instinct to compare that belated right act with places that took longer to do the right thing. Far less seriously people celebrate giving women the vote before other places did, without really getting into the hundreds of years of not letting it happen.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Sometimes I like to speculate what about our society today will be condemned when the shifting moral zeitgeist has moved on.
If I had to guess, I'd say animal rights, or allowing AI to take over. Or both
As soon as we develop "artificial meat", the idea we bred living animals - higher mammals indeed - in appalling conditions, just so they could be slaughtered, will seem utterly barbaric, nearly as bad as slavery.
They will probably be tearing down statues of famous beef farmers, or owners of big food corps.
Likewise AI. It is quite likely to me that robots will take over. Perhaps in 2050 renegade bands of feral humans, escaping their computer overlords, will detonate statues of Bill Gates, or Elon Musk, like the proto-IRA attacking British imperialist symbols in Dublin, but less effectively.
I've just been on the Duke of Wellington's Wikipedia page. Have you seen how many titles the current duke has? It's ridiculous!
"Arthur Charles Valerian Wellesley, 9th Duke of Wellington, 9th Prince of Waterloo, 9th Duke of Victoria, 10th Duke of Ciudad Rodrigo"
How come CR has a different number?
"In 1943, Anne Rhys (née Wellesley), the only daughter and eldest child of Arthur Wellesley, 5th Duke of Wellington, inherited the Spanish dukedom while having no rights to the British title of her family which passed to her uncle, after her younger brother was killed in action during the Second World War. In 1949 Anne renounced to the title in favor of her uncle Gerald Wellesley, 7th Duke of Wellington."
Has anyone noticed what a crap effort Canada is making of vaccinating ?
Like listing nations who have handled covid well, it is easier to just list nations who have made a good start on vaccinations...its literally 4-5 countries.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Sometimes I like to speculate what about our society today will be condemned when the shifting moral zeitgeist has moved on.
If I had to guess, I'd say animal rights, or allowing AI to take over. Or both
As soon as we develop "artificial meat", the idea we bred living animals - higher mammals indeed - in appalling conditions, just so they could be slaughtered, will seem utterly barbaric, nearly as bad as slavery.
They will probably be tearing down statues of famous beef farmers, or owners of big food corps.
Likewise AI. It is quite likely to me that robots will take over. Perhaps in 2050 renegade bands of feral humans, escaping their computer overlords, will detonate statues of Bill Gates, or Elon Musk, like the proto-IRA attacking British imperialist symbols in Dublin, but less effectively.
After reading your posts this evening, I feel the robot apocalypse can't come soon enough.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Sometimes I like to speculate what about our society today will be condemned when the shifting moral zeitgeist has moved on.
If I had to guess, I'd say animal rights, or allowing AI to take over. Or both
As soon as we develop "artificial meat", the idea we bred living animals - higher mammals indeed - in appalling conditions, just so they could be slaughtered, will seem utterly barbaric, nearly as bad as slavery.
They will probably be tearing down statues of famous beef farmers, or owners of big food corps.
Likewise AI. It is quite likely to me that robots will take over. Perhaps in 2050 renegade bands of feral humans, escaping their computer overlords, will detonate statues of Bill Gates, or Elon Musk, like the proto-IRA attacking British imperialist symbols in Dublin, but less effectively.
After reading your posts this evening, I feel the robot apocalypse can't come soon enough.
Have you ever considered writing an interesting comment? It might be good for you.
Has anyone noticed what a crap effort Canada is making of vaccinating ?
Like listing nations who have handled covid well, it is easier to just list nations who have made a good start on vaccinations...its literally 4-5 countries.
The bizarre thing is that Canada has ordered more vaccine than any other country.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Sometimes I like to speculate what about our society today will be condemned when the shifting moral zeitgeist has moved on.
If I had to guess, I'd say animal rights, or allowing AI to take over. Or both
As soon as we develop "artificial meat", the idea we bred living animals - higher mammals indeed - in appalling conditions, just so they could be slaughtered, will seem utterly barbaric, nearly as bad as slavery.
They will probably be tearing down statues of famous beef farmers, or owners of big food corps.
Likewise AI. It is quite likely to me that robots will take over. Perhaps in 2050 renegade bands of feral humans, escaping their computer overlords, will detonate statues of Bill Gates, or Elon Musk, like the proto-IRA attacking British imperialist symbols in Dublin, but less effectively.
After reading your posts this evening, I feel the robot apocalypse can't come soon enough.
Have you ever considered writing an interesting comment? It might be good for you.
I thought about it, but I decided against it. I have a feeling the murderous AI will track down the clever people first, and leave you and me until the end. #incognito #survivors_together
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Sometimes I like to speculate what about our society today will be condemned when the shifting moral zeitgeist has moved on.
If I had to guess, I'd say animal rights, or allowing AI to take over. Or both
As soon as we develop "artificial meat", the idea we bred living animals - higher mammals indeed - in appalling conditions, just so they could be slaughtered, will seem utterly barbaric, nearly as bad as slavery.
They will probably be tearing down statues of famous beef farmers, or owners of big food corps.
Likewise AI. It is quite likely to me that robots will take over. Perhaps in 2050 renegade bands of feral humans, escaping their computer overlords, will detonate statues of Bill Gates, or Elon Musk, like the proto-IRA attacking British imperialist symbols in Dublin, but less effectively.
After reading your posts this evening, I feel the robot apocalypse can't come soon enough.
Have you ever considered writing an interesting comment? It might be good for you.
Don't do it Mary - I tried it once and it was awful. Never again.
Has anyone noticed what a crap effort Canada is making of vaccinating ?
But still doing far better than their neighbour in terms of lack of deaths.
I'm sure that will be a great comfort for those people who will to die because the vaccination effort is going so slowly.
In end, what matters is how many people died of covid. It doesn't make difference to them why they died of covid, whether from lack of a timely vaccine or inadequate suppression policies (even if were possible to assign a cause). And, at the moment, Canada isn't doing anywhere near as badly as the US. Nor is, for example, Germany doing anywhere near as badly as the UK.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Sometimes I like to speculate what about our society today will be condemned when the shifting moral zeitgeist has moved on.
If I had to guess, I'd say animal rights, or allowing AI to take over. Or both
As soon as we develop "artificial meat", the idea we bred living animals - higher mammals indeed - in appalling conditions, just so they could be slaughtered, will seem utterly barbaric, nearly as bad as slavery.
They will probably be tearing down statues of famous beef farmers, or owners of big food corps.
Likewise AI. It is quite likely to me that robots will take over. Perhaps in 2050 renegade bands of feral humans, escaping their computer overlords, will detonate statues of Bill Gates, or Elon Musk, like the proto-IRA attacking British imperialist symbols in Dublin, but less effectively.
After reading your posts this evening, I feel the robot apocalypse can't come soon enough.
Next Monday marks the centenary of the play "Rossums Universal Robots" the play that introduced the word robot to our language, and features a successful robot revolt. Robot has its origin in the Czech word for "forced labourer" or slave, thereby bringing together several threads on here.
Actually, I am an admirer of Wilberforce. He was a brave man who did great things, but, was he flawed? OF course he fucking was. But so is everyone. Martin Luther King is implicated in gang rape. Gandhi as an old man slept with his teenage nieces. Churchill was a bigoted old drunk, Lincoln was a classical racist.
If you want to tear down every statue of every man or woman with a flaw we now find unacceptable, I genuinely think you would have no statues of anyone born before about 1990. And in ten years we will tearing down them, as well. In 2030 we will be attacking statues of Barack Obama and David Attenborough. It is insane.
Iconoclasm is a classic symptom of a society in crisis.
Sometimes I like to speculate what about our society today will be condemned when the shifting moral zeitgeist has moved on.
I sometime think there's a small chance that history will judge us terribly for the Paralympics, either owing to a societal shift in how the disabled are treated, or a hilarious misunderstanding as to what the point of the competition was.
Comments
I'm still stuck in group 9.
Spurs (a)
West Ham (a)
Brighton (h)
Man City (h)
Leicester (a)
Everton (h)
How many points in those are certain
The close family funeral and seamen are what I'd deem "acceptable" travel in the pandemic, those jetting off to see family not so much.
It's not going away as an issue, and political time has sped up, the next referendum is a lot closer than 36 years.
Though some countries will not have up to date numbers.
Indeed some historians think far more slaves were sold, in toto, to Islamic countries, than were sold across the Atlantic.
"Current estimates are that about 12 million to 12.8 million Africans were shipped across the Atlantic over a span of 400 years"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade#:~:text=The Atlantic slave trade, transatlantic,16th to the 19th centuries.
"When estimating the number of people enslaved from East Africa, author N'Diaye and French historian Olivier Pétré-Grenouilleau[17][18] estimate 17 million as the total number of people transported from the 7th century until 1920, amounting to an average of 6,000 people per year. "
And that's just the Indian Ocean. Islamic slavers also traded across the desert. and via other routes, and continued to do so until the 1960s. and arguably continue to this day
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Ocean_slave_trade
Is this Islamic aspect of slavery taught in British schools? No, it is not
Napoleon himself didn't like it - probably because it was a bit of contrast with the tubby reality of the later Napoleon.
Officers found 826 plants in the basement of a non-residential property on Throgmorton Street in the City of London -- the financial district of the capital and home of the Bank of England, as well as attractions including St Paul's Cathedral and Leadenhall Market.
So the next one should be 2024.
https://twitter.com/jaymitchinson/status/1352377556557848578?s=21
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/jun/08/the-unspeakable-truth-about-slavery-in-mauritania
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1352382533527359491/photo/1
Might as well now - why rush?
https://youtu.be/p5j3ro_nx2Q
Not me. No, sirree.
https://twitter.com/Synairgenplc/status/1349371770831331329?s=19
In my experience the one last thing which really energises Remoaners, still, is the loss of Freedom of Movement. And I get that. I feel it myself. Apart from that, the debate is all technical tarrify stuff which 95% people don't give a fuck about (even if it is important)
The FoM problem can be solved, at some point, by our rejoining a rejigged version of the EEA or EFTA, in a way which benefits both sides. That is certainly foreseeable in the the next decade or so.
But rejoining the political structures of the increasingly Federalised EU? Nope. Not for a long long time, if ever. SO long away, it is not worth thinking about.
https://twitter.com/HongKongHermit/status/1352348572474339338
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177
The point was less about whether it was an idea worth researching, and more about the irresponsibility of saying things which could easily be misinterpreted and result in Death by Bleach.
They need to recognise that we are an unusually important, advanced, valuable market on their doorstep (we are not Turkey, Bosnia or the Ukraine, to be blunt). We need to accept the SM comes with rules, so we can benefit from that, and we need to accept FoM because many of us want FoM.
But. There will be a looooong period of calmdown and readjustment before either side is willing to return to the fray, however. It is just natural. It took us four years to bloody Brexit. I suspect it will be a decade before SM membership and EEA status (or whatever it is is then) is on the agenda. Starmer is not going to put it in his 2024 manifesto (as he has already said) so that's 2029 at the earliest.
And of course by then history (as Covid teaches us) may have gone in an entirely different direction and all this may seem utterly irrelevant.
As a doctor of the human soul I advise you to put away your dreams of Rejoin in your Lifetime. They are really rather unlikely to happen, and will only cause you heartbreak, interim. Focus on what's good about your life. And do HIIT every day.
.
Funnily enough, I can see FoM being one of the last bits to fall into place, because it's so visible and totemic to a chunk of the Brexit base. The boring stuff (we don't really want the faff of our own chemical safety standards, do we? So we might as well piggyback on the Euro ones, and I suspect business will prefer it) might well come first. Possibly some bits even before 2024.
And then, EEA (or more likely "I can't believe it's not EEA") in a decade or so seems sensible; it's what I'd nudge for next.
And then the question is whether the UK wants to be involved in making decisions, or be a recipient of the decisions made by others. "Of course the UK doesn't have to do these things, it could leave the EEA arrangement, because that went so well for you in 2020, ho ho..." But yeah, that's a way in the future.
And for now, the important thing is to try and make the Johnson plan work. Because there isn't much of a bank of goodwill if it turns out to be inoperable in practice.
Killing Jews just because they are Jews is wrong. Obvs.
If Hitler had killed 6 Jews, he'd be an unsavoury footnote in criminological history. A shooter in a synagogue. Ugh.
He killed six million. OMFG.
I’m not giving someone a pass because they’re not white Europeans
"Arthur Charles Valerian Wellesley, 9th Duke of Wellington, 9th Prince of Waterloo, 9th Duke of Victoria, 10th Duke of Ciudad Rodrigo"
But @foxy seems content to place all the blame for slavery on a small group of participants in a deeply unpleasant trade
At least they had one year - I had to wait my whole adult life for that, it will see me through the next 30.
https://time.com/5835244/accidental-poisonings-trump/
Sturgeon I'm happy to agree was just bandwagon jumping, but I can't imagine too many Americans would have taken much notice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Ciudad_Rodrigo
It wasn't just a small number of people involved either, it was a core piece of our economy in the seventeenth and eighteenth century, until the dawning of the industrial era. The reason why the slavers statues are so contentious is because these were typical of the aristocracy and wealthy of the period, from the King down.
On the issue of 'bigging up' the abolishment of slavery, my general take has been that nothing can be done to make up for such heinousness as took place, so abolishment and seeking to stop others trading slaves is the most that can be done, and its just natural instinct to compare that belated right act with places that took longer to do the right thing. Far less seriously people celebrate giving women the vote before other places did, without really getting into the hundreds of years of not letting it happen.
As soon as we develop "artificial meat", the idea we bred living animals - higher mammals indeed - in appalling conditions, just so they could be slaughtered, will seem utterly barbaric, nearly as bad as slavery.
They will probably be tearing down statues of famous beef farmers, or owners of big food corps.
Likewise AI. It is quite likely to me that robots will take over. Perhaps in 2050 renegade bands of feral humans, escaping their computer overlords, will detonate statues of Bill Gates, or Elon Musk, like the proto-IRA attacking British imperialist symbols in Dublin, but less effectively.
Pleasant dreams to all.