The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
Just like Gordon Brown.
Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.
It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.
That Trump video was painful to watch. Sat so still that he almost looked chained to his chair. Hands tightly clasped together. Occasionally cocking his head over in disbelief at what was on the autocue.
The Senate trial doesn't matter now. He has already be de facto removed from office and is facing an avalanche of legal problems next week. Federal investigation into sedition and incitement. Potentially federal investigation into treason (over Russia). New York State investigation into his dodgy finances. DC investigation into last week's failed coup.
His brand is trash. His lines of credit pulled with hundreds of millions of Dollars owed. A fire sale of assets at the very least. And Giuliani will sue him for non-payment of his legal fees.
And all because a Capitol Police shot Ashli Babbitt...
My fear is the millions of Trump supporters who are armed and ready to continue this battle and every move against Trump, warranted as it is, will only prolong the bitter and dangerous division
Vengeance may satisfy some, but at what cost to the many who are desperate to turn the page on this catastrophic Trump period
But it isn't just vengeance, it is justice that should be sought. The man incited an attempted coup. A coup attempt which left five people dead.
What is wrong with you people who are suggesting he walks free, in the interests of "peace". to continue as a shadow President, a President in waiting who can spew his seditious propaganda to the angry and disenchanted?
Donald Trump makes the angry, angrier. The louder his voice, the greater the division.
Lock him up to shut him up!
You are letting your emotions takeover from a course that I support in as far as preventing him ever standing again has to be utmost in people's minds and I am not suggesting he should not face due process, but be careful for what you wish for, it could just ignite the issue for years to come
Allowing Trump to continue spouting his propaganda at will, leads down a dark road. Free speech is one thing "propagandagepezete" leads us to rioting in the Reichstag, or the Capitol Building.
He has done something very bad. Punishment rather than retribution is required, that will shut him up too.
He has been worst than very bad, but how you balance justice v peace is the issue for Americans to decide, and the key word is balance
Personally I would be delighted if we never heard another word from him
Your view is the view of Neville Chamberlain.
bullseye
You want conflict
I want anti-democratic insurgents, in order of preference, deterred, detained, or dead. If you fail to deter or detain them with ordinary judicial procedures, they will keep coming back until you are forced to shoot them or let them shoot you.
Wait until the Salmond allegations really hit home.
Though of course there will be no indyref2 allowed by the UK government anyway whatever happens in May, 2014 was a 'once in a generation' vote.
Yeah right, I believe you were also saying there'd be a Tory bounce in Scotland following the Brexit deal given the way you were breathlessly retweeting a Scottish subsample.
Surely the point is that fascism has always been a disputed category unless applied to Mussolini and his party? Were Salazar, Franco, Peron etc fascists? Trump certainly belongs to that basket of deplorables to whom the question can be applied.
The point Evans makes is that Fascist ideology subsumes the individual into the war making state - none of which applies to Trump. Populist amoral demagogue, yes, warmaking big state trampler of individual liberties, no.
The "point" is purest wankery and bollocks. There tends to be at least one individual who is not subsumed into the state - the supreme leader. Donald J Trump in this case. There is no question he views himself that way. War making? Trampler of individual liberties? In all probability Yes and Yes if he had succeeded in staying in power despite losing the election. He is a wannabe fascist. Or (ok, Nigel) an incipient fascist. This much is undeniable. He has not become the genuine article because the coup did not work out. Fascism follows successful fascist coups not failed ones.
Anybody who consciously marshals fascists for their own political gain deserves the label.
Mmm. Not a fascist. Just that he tries to overturn an election using white supremacist violence. Not a racist. Just that every racist thinks he is and loves him. Not a misogynist. Just that he thinks women are second order creatures. Wonder what else he isn't?
Wait until the Salmond allegations really hit home.
Though of course there will be no indyref2 allowed by the UK government anyway whatever happens in May, 2014 was a 'once in a generation' vote.
Yeah right, I believe you were also saying there'd be a Tory bounce in Scotland following the Brexit deal given the way you were breathlessly retweeting a Scottish subsample.
I can't foresee a Tory bounce after they sold the Scottish fisherman down the river, (mixing my metaphors here).
It's absolutely ridiculous. Close the fucking airports already.
For the record, I don't remotely support the Government on its frankly inexplicable position on closing down airports. The idea that "well, it's only a few cases and we already have it sweeping the land" does not remotely give protection against ever more complex strains that may render the current vaccination programme at risk.
I say "may". I'd rather take a safety first approach - rather than the Government's "may not". The consequences of them being wrong is a broken economy.
Who the hell is privately lobbying to keep them open?
That Trump video was painful to watch. Sat so still that he almost looked chained to his chair. Hands tightly clasped together. Occasionally cocking his head over in disbelief at what was on the autocue.
The Senate trial doesn't matter now. He has already be de facto removed from office and is facing an avalanche of legal problems next week. Federal investigation into sedition and incitement. Potentially federal investigation into treason (over Russia). New York State investigation into his dodgy finances. DC investigation into last week's failed coup.
His brand is trash. His lines of credit pulled with hundreds of millions of Dollars owed. A fire sale of assets at the very least. And Giuliani will sue him for non-payment of his legal fees.
And all because a Capitol Police shot Ashli Babbitt...
My fear is the millions of Trump supporters who are armed and ready to continue this battle and every move against Trump, warranted as it is, will only prolong the bitter and dangerous division
Vengeance may satisfy some, but at what cost to the many who are desperate to turn the page on this catastrophic Trump period
But it isn't just vengeance, it is justice that should be sought. The man incited an attempted coup. A coup attempt which left five people dead.
What is wrong with you people who are suggesting he walks free, in the interests of "peace". to continue as a shadow President, a President in waiting who can spew his seditious propaganda to the angry and disenchanted?
Donald Trump makes the angry, angrier. The louder his voice, the greater the division.
Lock him up to shut him up!
You are letting your emotions takeover from a course that I support in as far as preventing him ever standing again has to be utmost in people's minds and I am not suggesting he should not face due process, but be careful for what you wish for, it could just ignite the issue for years to come
Allowing Trump to continue spouting his propaganda at will, leads down a dark road. Free speech is one thing "propagandagepezete" leads us to rioting in the Reichstag, or the Capitol Building.
He has done something very bad. Punishment rather than retribution is required, that will shut him up too.
He has been worst than very bad, but how you balance justice v peace is the issue for Americans to decide, and the key word is balance
Personally I would be delighted if we never heard another word from him
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
Just like Gordon Brown.
Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.
It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.
Leaders of communist and far right movements are usually as bad as each other. But lots of decent people get swept up by communism, whose stated motivation is basically good (but is foolish utopian madness peddled by frauds and demagogues). Far right supporters (who buy into ideas of racial superiority) are all scum. Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.
Surely the point is that fascism has always been a disputed category unless applied to Mussolini and his party? Were Salazar, Franco, Peron etc fascists? Trump certainly belongs to that basket of deplorables to whom the question can be applied.
The point Evans makes is that Fascist ideology subsumes the individual into the war making state - none of which applies to Trump. Populist amoral demagogue, yes, warmaking big state trampler of individual liberties, no.
The "point" is purest wankery and bollocks. There tends to be at least one individual who is not subsumed into the state - the supreme leader. Donald J Trump in this case. There is no question he views himself that way. War making? Trampler of individual liberties? In all probability Yes and Yes if he had succeeded in staying in power despite losing the election. He is a wannabe fascist. Or (ok, Nigel) an incipient fascist. This much is undeniable. He has not become the genuine article because the coup did not work out. Fascism follows successful fascist coups not failed ones.
Anybody who consciously marshals fascists for their own political gain deserves the label.
Mmm. Not a fascist. Just that he tries to overturn an election using white supremacist violence. Not a racist. Just that every racist thinks he is and loves him. Not a misogynist. Just that he thinks women are second order creatures. Wonder what else he isn't?
I usually roll my eyes at the tendency of some of the more histrionic gauchistes to label anything to the right of Mao as fascist - even David Cameron (!) received the label from time to time. Worst of all are the ones who spell it 'facist', usually in the same sentence as 'priviledge'.
But is there any doubt in my mind that Trump is some form (proto-/incipient-/wannabe-/preschool-) of fascist? Not in the slightest. If his IQ were 20-30 points higher, the United States' experiment with democracy might be over now.
That Trump video was painful to watch. Sat so still that he almost looked chained to his chair. Hands tightly clasped together. Occasionally cocking his head over in disbelief at what was on the autocue.
The Senate trial doesn't matter now. He has already be de facto removed from office and is facing an avalanche of legal problems next week. Federal investigation into sedition and incitement. Potentially federal investigation into treason (over Russia). New York State investigation into his dodgy finances. DC investigation into last week's failed coup.
His brand is trash. His lines of credit pulled with hundreds of millions of Dollars owed. A fire sale of assets at the very least. And Giuliani will sue him for non-payment of his legal fees.
And all because a Capitol Police shot Ashli Babbitt...
My fear is the millions of Trump supporters who are armed and ready to continue this battle and every move against Trump, warranted as it is, will only prolong the bitter and dangerous division
Vengeance may satisfy some, but at what cost to the many who are desperate to turn the page on this catastrophic Trump period
But it isn't just vengeance, it is justice that should be sought. The man incited an attempted coup. A coup attempt which left five people dead.
What is wrong with you people who are suggesting he walks free, in the interests of "peace". to continue as a shadow President, a President in waiting who can spew his seditious propaganda to the angry and disenchanted?
Donald Trump makes the angry, angrier. The louder his voice, the greater the division.
Lock him up to shut him up!
You are letting your emotions takeover from a course that I support in as far as preventing him ever standing again has to be utmost in people's minds and I am not suggesting he should not face due process, but be careful for what you wish for, it could just ignite the issue for years to come
Allowing Trump to continue spouting his propaganda at will, leads down a dark road. Free speech is one thing "propagandagepezete" leads us to rioting in the Reichstag, or the Capitol Building.
He has done something very bad. Punishment rather than retribution is required, that will shut him up too.
He has been worst than very bad, but how you balance justice v peace is the issue for Americans to decide, and the key word is balance
Personally I would be delighted if we never heard another word from him
Is balance the key word for how we deal with Jihadists with bombs, guns, deaths, revolution and violence as well, or just Trumpists with bombs, guns, deaths, revolution and violence.
Once you cross into violent revolution balance is no longer required or desired.
Surely the point is that fascism has always been a disputed category unless applied to Mussolini and his party? Were Salazar, Franco, Peron etc fascists? Trump certainly belongs to that basket of deplorables to whom the question can be applied.
The point Evans makes is that Fascist ideology subsumes the individual into the war making state - none of which applies to Trump. Populist amoral demagogue, yes, warmaking big state trampler of individual liberties, no.
The "point" is purest wankery and bollocks. There tends to be at least one individual who is not subsumed into the state - the supreme leader. Donald J Trump in this case. There is no question he views himself that way. War making? Trampler of individual liberties? In all probability Yes and Yes if he had succeeded in staying in power despite losing the election. He is a wannabe fascist. Or (ok, Nigel) an incipient fascist. This much is undeniable. He has not become the genuine article because the coup did not work out. Fascism follows successful fascist coups not failed ones.
Anybody who consciously marshals fascists for their own political gain deserves the label.
Mmm. Not a fascist. Just that he tries to overturn an election using white supremacist violence. Not a racist. Just that every racist thinks he is and loves him. Not a misogynist. Just that he thinks women are second order creatures. Wonder what else he isn't?
I usually roll my eyes at the tendency of some of the more histrionic gauchistes to label anything to the right of Mao as fascist - even David Cameron (!) received the label from time to time. Worst of all are the ones who spell it 'facist', usually in the same sentence as 'priviledge'.
But is there any doubt in my mind that Trump is some form (proto-/incipient-/wannabe-/preschool-) of fascist? Not in the slightest. If his IQ were 20-30 points higher, the United States' experiment with democracy might be over now.
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
Just like Gordon Brown.
Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.
It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.
Leaders of communist and far right movements are usually as bad as each other. But lots of decent people get swept up by communism, whose stated motivation is basically good (but is foolish utopian madness peddled by frauds and demagogues). Far right supporters (who buy into ideas of racial superiority) are all scum. Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.
The opposite is true for me, the far right absolutely hate me, although that's not a trait limited to the far right.
I'm everything the far right say the grandson of (Muslim) immigrants to this country cannot be.
That Trump video was painful to watch. Sat so still that he almost looked chained to his chair. Hands tightly clasped together. Occasionally cocking his head over in disbelief at what was on the autocue.
The Senate trial doesn't matter now. He has already be de facto removed from office and is facing an avalanche of legal problems next week. Federal investigation into sedition and incitement. Potentially federal investigation into treason (over Russia). New York State investigation into his dodgy finances. DC investigation into last week's failed coup.
His brand is trash. His lines of credit pulled with hundreds of millions of Dollars owed. A fire sale of assets at the very least. And Giuliani will sue him for non-payment of his legal fees.
And all because a Capitol Police shot Ashli Babbitt...
My fear is the millions of Trump supporters who are armed and ready to continue this battle and every move against Trump, warranted as it is, will only prolong the bitter and dangerous division
Vengeance may satisfy some, but at what cost to the many who are desperate to turn the page on this catastrophic Trump period
But it isn't just vengeance, it is justice that should be sought. The man incited an attempted coup. A coup attempt which left five people dead.
What is wrong with you people who are suggesting he walks free, in the interests of "peace". to continue as a shadow President, a President in waiting who can spew his seditious propaganda to the angry and disenchanted?
Donald Trump makes the angry, angrier. The louder his voice, the greater the division.
Lock him up to shut him up!
You are letting your emotions takeover from a course that I support in as far as preventing him ever standing again has to be utmost in people's minds and I am not suggesting he should not face due process, but be careful for what you wish for, it could just ignite the issue for years to come
Allowing Trump to continue spouting his propaganda at will, leads down a dark road. Free speech is one thing "propagandagepezete" leads us to rioting in the Reichstag, or the Capitol Building.
He has done something very bad. Punishment rather than retribution is required, that will shut him up too.
He has been worst than very bad, but how you balance justice v peace is the issue for Americans to decide, and the key word is balance
Personally I would be delighted if we never heard another word from him
Is balance the key word for how we deal with Jihadists with bombs, guns, deaths, revolution and violence as well, or just Trumpists with bombs, guns, deaths, revolution and violence.
Once you cross into violent revolution balance is no longer required or desired.
Quite. I'm by nature inclined to seek the moderate path, the sensible answer is usually to be found in between two extremes . But that is not always the case, and sometimes the right answer is not in some balanced middle.
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
It would rule him out if the love of capitalism and the urge to defend it was a defining instinct of his - but clearly this is not the case. As to the charge that the F word gets thrown around promiscuously to mean "person who I think is bad and don't like", a la Rik in the Young Ones, yes this does happen. But not here. If it's wrong to call Donald Trump a (wannabe) fascist we may as well retire the word.
Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.
NPXMP once said he could imagine me commanding a Chekist firing squad so I'd be fucking sorted.
I think it's greatest compliment I've ever received in my pb.com career.
Less than 5% of GOP representatives voted to impeach Trump last night, unless a significantly bigger proportion of GOP Senators vote to convict him, the conviction will fall short of the 2/3 majority required.
However it is possible that Trump could be disbarred from seeking public office again if that passes with just a simple majority once the Democrats take control of the Senate next week.
That, though, would be a far more dangerous precedent to set.
Surely the point is that fascism has always been a disputed category unless applied to Mussolini and his party? Were Salazar, Franco, Peron etc fascists? Trump certainly belongs to that basket of deplorables to whom the question can be applied.
The point Evans makes is that Fascist ideology subsumes the individual into the war making state - none of which applies to Trump. Populist amoral demagogue, yes, warmaking big state trampler of individual liberties, no.
The "point" is purest wankery and bollocks. There tends to be at least one individual who is not subsumed into the state - the supreme leader. Donald J Trump in this case. There is no question he views himself that way. War making? Trampler of individual liberties? In all probability Yes and Yes if he had succeeded in staying in power despite losing the election. He is a wannabe fascist. Or (ok, Nigel) an incipient fascist. This much is undeniable. He has not become the genuine article because the coup did not work out. Fascism follows successful fascist coups not failed ones.
Anybody who consciously marshals fascists for their own political gain deserves the label.
Mmm. Not a fascist. Just that he tries to overturn an election using white supremacist violence. Not a racist. Just that every racist thinks he is and loves him. Not a misogynist. Just that he thinks women are second order creatures. Wonder what else he isn't?
I usually roll my eyes at the tendency of some of the more histrionic gauchistes to label anything to the right of Mao as fascist - even David Cameron (!) received the label from time to time. Worst of all are the ones who spell it 'facist', usually in the same sentence as 'priviledge'.
But is there any doubt in my mind that Trump is some form (proto-/incipient-/wannabe-/preschool-) of fascist? Not in the slightest. If his IQ were 20-30 points higher, the United States' experiment with democracy might be over now.
On PB I have seen David Cameron described as an arch leftie and a far right politician.
Surely the point is that fascism has always been a disputed category unless applied to Mussolini and his party? Were Salazar, Franco, Peron etc fascists? Trump certainly belongs to that basket of deplorables to whom the question can be applied.
The point Evans makes is that Fascist ideology subsumes the individual into the war making state - none of which applies to Trump. Populist amoral demagogue, yes, warmaking big state trampler of individual liberties, no.
The "point" is purest wankery and bollocks. There tends to be at least one individual who is not subsumed into the state - the supreme leader. Donald J Trump in this case. There is no question he views himself that way. War making? Trampler of individual liberties? In all probability Yes and Yes if he had succeeded in staying in power despite losing the election. He is a wannabe fascist. Or (ok, Nigel) an incipient fascist. This much is undeniable. He has not become the genuine article because the coup did not work out. Fascism follows successful fascist coups not failed ones.
Anybody who consciously marshals fascists for their own political gain deserves the label.
Mmm. Not a fascist. Just that he tries to overturn an election using white supremacist violence. Not a racist. Just that every racist thinks he is and loves him. Not a misogynist. Just that he thinks women are second order creatures. Wonder what else he isn't?
I usually roll my eyes at the tendency of some of the more histrionic gauchistes to label anything to the right of Mao as fascist - even David Cameron (!) received the label from time to time. Worst of all are the ones who spell it 'facist', usually in the same sentence as 'priviledge'.
But is there any doubt in my mind that Trump is some form (proto-/incipient-/wannabe-/preschool-) of fascist? Not in the slightest. If his IQ were 20-30 points higher, the United States' experiment with democracy might be over now.
Think it's his EQ that was really lacking.
It's worth being clear here.
If Trump had stopped for 30 seconds and realized that encouraging early voting gave more opportunities for his voters to vote he would have won the election.
Wait until the Salmond allegations really hit home.
Though of course there will be no indyref2 allowed by the UK government anyway whatever happens in May, 2014 was a 'once in a generation' vote.
Yeah right, I believe you were also saying there'd be a Tory bounce in Scotland following the Brexit deal given the way you were breathlessly retweeting a Scottish subsample.
The Tories are mainly down on the list vote, on the constituency vote there is actually a small swing from the SNP to the Conservatives since the last poll (the SNP constituency vote is down by more than the SCon constituency vote). The constituency vote is key as the SNP will get few list seats anyway, it does not matter for Unionists so much if Labour get a few list seats from the Tories
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
In general, Fascists spend like drunk sailors. High taxes as well.
All those jackboots and high fashion uniforms cost money...
Yes let's not forget the leather. If this is a purely optional feature of fascism how come it is always in the mix?
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
Just like Gordon Brown.
Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.
It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.
Leaders of communist and far right movements are usually as bad as each other. But lots of decent people get swept up by communism, whose stated motivation is basically good (but is foolish utopian madness peddled by frauds and demagogues). Far right supporters (who buy into ideas of racial superiority) are all scum. Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.
I suggest you read some history of the development of Fascism. Plenty of followers were ordinary decent people, before they joined the cause. Just like Communism. In fact quite a few went straight from Communism to the Brown Shirts. Literally. They saw Fascism as another Utopian world building project.....
"I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest."
Hmmm. I suggest you read the stories of Stalins purges. Plenty of people thought they were "safe" because they were good Communists. In fact they were first against the wall. Bit like the "Night of the Long Knifes" where a number of those murdered died shouting "Heil Hitler".
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
Just like Gordon Brown.
Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.
It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.
I've seen some pushback on the horseshoe theory on the grounds that the stated ideologies supposedly remain quite distinct from one another even if the practicalities have many similarities.
To which I would say that is absolutely bloody nonsense. If in practice they do a lot of the same things in the same brutal, authoritarian way, then quibbling that their official motivations are different and therefore one is better than the other seems like a very weird position to take.
If they look and act pretty much the same, they are close enough as far as I am concerned.
Wait until the Salmond allegations really hit home.
Though of course there will be no indyref2 allowed by the UK government anyway whatever happens in May, 2014 was a 'once in a generation' vote.
Yeah right, I believe you were also saying there'd be a Tory bounce in Scotland following the Brexit deal given the way you were breathlessly retweeting a Scottish subsample.
The Tories are mainly down on the list, on the constituency vote there is actually a small swing from the SNP to the Conservatives since the last poll. The constituency vote is key as the SNP will get few list seats anyway, it does not matter for Unionists so much if Labour get a few list seats from the Tories
I made a comment yesterday that there were likely to be big geographical differences in vaccination rates. Just heard another anecdote.
My parents (78 and 72) are in Berkshire near Reading and they haven't been contacted yet about their vaccines. They have a friend who is closer to Reading who is 71 and has their vaccination scheduled for today. Meanwhile my 84 year old father in law in Buckinghamshire has not heard anything.
If this situation goes further out of line then I can see this becoming an issue. Particularly if some locations get through the top 4 priority groups and then start on the rest whilst some parts of the country are still well behind.
Especially if it turns out that the North is missing out or that certain deprived postcodes aren't getting supplies and so on.
A lot of it depends on how proactice surgeries are. In Southampton some surgeries have got through their 80+ people and are now moving on to their 75+ . Others have barely done any.
Currently I think it's logistics that are the issue as Pfizer has complex requirements.
From memory Southampton University Hospital is a hub so moving that vaccine around Southampton is so much easier than say South Cumbria where the nearest hub is Carlisle.
The difference between neighbouring surgeries in Southampton is remarkable.
As with so much with the NHS. You need pointy elbows and to shout loudly to get just about anything done.
I would bet those surgeries with the vaccine were pro-active; those without were/are still waiting to be contacted.
If you are elderly and turn up looking confused or weak many places will assume you are always like that.
A friend had a treatable bone cancer but turned up in a bit of a state due to a calcium imbalance. She was given a week or so by the first doctor and effectively consigned to the bin. Once her daughter turned up and pointed out that, no, this wasn't her normal state someone actually looked and found the problem. She is still going 2 years later, as once the treatment started the service was fine.
A similar thing happened to my Dad when he had an infection (which often causes dementia-like symptoms). I had to be there to say - no, this isn't normal, look again.
Not everywhere is like that, but...
Sorry to be late responding but abso-bloody-lutely. Sadly a very familiar-type story.
Mine was that my mother (89yrs old at the time) had water on the brain. Which for all the world presents like a doddering, dementia-y 89yr old. It rapidly deteriorated so she was unable to walk/talk/etc. Dementia/age they said. Except there were key symptoms and causes. Which the NHS simply did not (choose to?) address.
It was left to my sister and google overnight (literally for 10 hours) to unpick the condition, the symptoms and then make a diagnosis. We then took that to the doctors and after *a lot* of pushing, quite nasty at times tbh, they accepted it, took action, and finally treated her for it. She is now playing chess with me in person and with her granddaughters online and still has the odd game of online scrabble with her scrabble club.
Time and time again left to its own devices the NHS will simply not bother, or does not have the organisational structure to make the extra effort.
Surely the point is that fascism has always been a disputed category unless applied to Mussolini and his party? Were Salazar, Franco, Peron etc fascists? Trump certainly belongs to that basket of deplorables to whom the question can be applied.
The point Evans makes is that Fascist ideology subsumes the individual into the war making state - none of which applies to Trump. Populist amoral demagogue, yes, warmaking big state trampler of individual liberties, no.
The "point" is purest wankery and bollocks. There tends to be at least one individual who is not subsumed into the state - the supreme leader. Donald J Trump in this case. There is no question he views himself that way. War making? Trampler of individual liberties? In all probability Yes and Yes if he had succeeded in staying in power despite losing the election. He is a wannabe fascist. Or (ok, Nigel) an incipient fascist. This much is undeniable. He has not become the genuine article because the coup did not work out. Fascism follows successful fascist coups not failed ones.
Anybody who consciously marshals fascists for their own political gain deserves the label.
Mmm. Not a fascist. Just that he tries to overturn an election using white supremacist violence. Not a racist. Just that every racist thinks he is and loves him. Not a misogynist. Just that he thinks women are second order creatures. Wonder what else he isn't?
I usually roll my eyes at the tendency of some of the more histrionic gauchistes to label anything to the right of Mao as fascist - even David Cameron (!) received the label from time to time. Worst of all are the ones who spell it 'facist', usually in the same sentence as 'priviledge'.
But is there any doubt in my mind that Trump is some form (proto-/incipient-/wannabe-/preschool-) of fascist? Not in the slightest. If his IQ were 20-30 points higher, the United States' experiment with democracy might be over now.
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
Just like Gordon Brown.
Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.
It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.
Leaders of communist and far right movements are usually as bad as each other. But lots of decent people get swept up by communism, whose stated motivation is basically good (but is foolish utopian madness peddled by frauds and demagogues). Far right supporters (who buy into ideas of racial superiority) are all scum. Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.
The opposite is true for me, the far right absolutely hate me, although that's not a trait limited to the far right.
Judge a man by his enemies. You seem to be doing fine in that regard.
That Trump video was painful to watch. Sat so still that he almost looked chained to his chair. Hands tightly clasped together. Occasionally cocking his head over in disbelief at what was on the autocue.
The Senate trial doesn't matter now. He has already be de facto removed from office and is facing an avalanche of legal problems next week. Federal investigation into sedition and incitement. Potentially federal investigation into treason (over Russia). New York State investigation into his dodgy finances. DC investigation into last week's failed coup.
His brand is trash. His lines of credit pulled with hundreds of millions of Dollars owed. A fire sale of assets at the very least. And Giuliani will sue him for non-payment of his legal fees.
And all because a Capitol Police shot Ashli Babbitt...
My fear is the millions of Trump supporters who are armed and ready to continue this battle and every move against Trump, warranted as it is, will only prolong the bitter and dangerous division
Vengeance may satisfy some, but at what cost to the many who are desperate to turn the page on this catastrophic Trump period
But it isn't just vengeance, it is justice that should be sought. The man incited an attempted coup. A coup attempt which left five people dead.
What is wrong with you people who are suggesting he walks free, in the interests of "peace". to continue as a shadow President, a President in waiting who can spew his seditious propaganda to the angry and disenchanted?
Donald Trump makes the angry, angrier. The louder his voice, the greater the division.
Lock him up to shut him up!
You are letting your emotions takeover from a course that I support in as far as preventing him ever standing again has to be utmost in people's minds and I am not suggesting he should not face due process, but be careful for what you wish for, it could just ignite the issue for years to come
Allowing Trump to continue spouting his propaganda at will, leads down a dark road. Free speech is one thing "propagandagepezete" leads us to rioting in the Reichstag, or the Capitol Building.
He has done something very bad. Punishment rather than retribution is required, that will shut him up too.
He has been worst than very bad, but how you balance justice v peace is the issue for Americans to decide, and the key word is balance
Personally I would be delighted if we never heard another word from him
Your view is the view of Neville Chamberlain.
Now that is silly
If the insurgents had lynched Pence, Pelosi and several dozen Democrat Senators and Representatives, and a few dissenting GOP lawmakers to boot, make no mistake, Trump would have taken it.
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
Just like Gordon Brown.
Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.
It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.
Leaders of communist and far right movements are usually as bad as each other. But lots of decent people get swept up by communism, whose stated motivation is basically good (but is foolish utopian madness peddled by frauds and demagogues). Far right supporters (who buy into ideas of racial superiority) are all scum. Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.
I suggest you read some history of the development of Fascism. Plenty of followers were ordinary decent people, before they joined the cause. Just like Communism. In fact quite a few went straight from Communism to the Brown Shirts. Literally. They saw Fascism as another Utopian world building project.....
"I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest."
Hmmm. I suggest you read the stories of Stalins purges. Plenty of people thought they were "safe" because they were good Communists. In fact they were first against the wall. Bit like the "Night of the Long Knifes" where a number of those murdered died shouting "Heil Hitler".
I put our chances of making it through communism about 80%, I wouldn't describe that as safe! But for the crime of race mixing I am pretty sure the Nazis would be putting us in a camp PDQ. Plenty of ordinary people supported the Nazis. But decent? Not convinced. Hitler's ideology was obvious from the start. There are a lot of bad people out there, just waiting to get activated by the right bad leader.
Less than 5% of GOP representatives voted to impeach Trump last night, unless a significantly bigger proportion of GOP Senators vote to convict him, the conviction will fall short of the 2/3 majority required.
However it is possible that Trump could be disbarred from seeking public office again if that passes with just a simple majority once the Democrats take control of the Senate next week.
That, though, would be a far more dangerous precedent to set.
I don't think it is correct. The simple majority for disbarring him only applies if they get the 2/3 majority to convict.
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
Just like Gordon Brown.
Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.
It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.
Leaders of communist and far right movements are usually as bad as each other. But lots of decent people get swept up by communism, whose stated motivation is basically good (but is foolish utopian madness peddled by frauds and demagogues). Far right supporters (who buy into ideas of racial superiority) are all scum. Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.
I suggest you read some history of the development of Fascism. Plenty of followers were ordinary decent people, before they joined the cause. Just like Communism. In fact quite a few went straight from Communism to the Brown Shirts. Literally. They saw Fascism as another Utopian world building project.....
"I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest."
Hmmm. I suggest you read the stories of Stalins purges. Plenty of people thought they were "safe" because they were good Communists. In fact they were first against the wall. Bit like the "Night of the Long Knifes" where a number of those murdered died shouting "Heil Hitler".
Mussolini and Mosley were both Socialists at one point."
*Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*
"Hitler was not a Socialist. He was a police spy on a Socialist group, hence the name. It rapidly ditched Socialism once he joined properly and took it over.
Less than 5% of GOP representatives voted to impeach Trump last night, unless a significantly bigger proportion of GOP Senators vote to convict him, the conviction will fall short of the 2/3 majority required.
However it is possible that Trump could be disbarred from seeking public office again if that passes with just a simple majority once the Democrats take control of the Senate next week.
That, though, would be a far more dangerous precedent to set.
Agreed. A much easier way to knock out potential rivals.
Surely the point is that fascism has always been a disputed category unless applied to Mussolini and his party? Were Salazar, Franco, Peron etc fascists? Trump certainly belongs to that basket of deplorables to whom the question can be applied.
The point Evans makes is that Fascist ideology subsumes the individual into the war making state - none of which applies to Trump. Populist amoral demagogue, yes, warmaking big state trampler of individual liberties, no.
The "point" is purest wankery and bollocks. There tends to be at least one individual who is not subsumed into the state - the supreme leader. Donald J Trump in this case. There is no question he views himself that way. War making? Trampler of individual liberties? In all probability Yes and Yes if he had succeeded in staying in power despite losing the election. He is a wannabe fascist. Or (ok, Nigel) an incipient fascist. This much is undeniable. He has not become the genuine article because the coup did not work out. Fascism follows successful fascist coups not failed ones.
Anybody who consciously marshals fascists for their own political gain deserves the label.
Mmm. Not a fascist. Just that he tries to overturn an election using white supremacist violence. Not a racist. Just that every racist thinks he is and loves him. Not a misogynist. Just that he thinks women are second order creatures. Wonder what else he isn't?
I usually roll my eyes at the tendency of some of the more histrionic gauchistes to label anything to the right of Mao as fascist - even David Cameron (!) received the label from time to time. Worst of all are the ones who spell it 'facist', usually in the same sentence as 'priviledge'.
But is there any doubt in my mind that Trump is some form (proto-/incipient-/wannabe-/preschool-) of fascist? Not in the slightest. If his IQ were 20-30 points higher, the United States' experiment with democracy might be over now.
Bloggus impeccibus.
I always think of facism as what Robin Cook had to struggle with all his life.
Less than 5% of GOP representatives voted to impeach Trump last night, unless a significantly bigger proportion of GOP Senators vote to convict him, the conviction will fall short of the 2/3 majority required.
However it is possible that Trump could be disbarred from seeking public office again if that passes with just a simple majority once the Democrats take control of the Senate next week.
That, though, would be a far more dangerous precedent to set.
I don't think it is correct. The simple majority for disbarring him only applies if they get the 2/3 majority to convict.
Here's another question.
Even if he isn't impeached, can the Senate bar him from running for office again by a majority vote?
Can see that causing all sorts of fun, but it's entirely possible the Dems would try.
That Trump video was painful to watch. Sat so still that he almost looked chained to his chair. Hands tightly clasped together. Occasionally cocking his head over in disbelief at what was on the autocue.
The Senate trial doesn't matter now. He has already be de facto removed from office and is facing an avalanche of legal problems next week. Federal investigation into sedition and incitement. Potentially federal investigation into treason (over Russia). New York State investigation into his dodgy finances. DC investigation into last week's failed coup.
His brand is trash. His lines of credit pulled with hundreds of millions of Dollars owed. A fire sale of assets at the very least. And Giuliani will sue him for non-payment of his legal fees.
And all because a Capitol Police shot Ashli Babbitt...
My fear is the millions of Trump supporters who are armed and ready to continue this battle and every move against Trump, warranted as it is, will only prolong the bitter and dangerous division
Vengeance may satisfy some, but at what cost to the many who are desperate to turn the page on this catastrophic Trump period
But it isn't just vengeance, it is justice that should be sought. The man incited an attempted coup. A coup attempt which left five people dead.
What is wrong with you people who are suggesting he walks free, in the interests of "peace". to continue as a shadow President, a President in waiting who can spew his seditious propaganda to the angry and disenchanted?
Donald Trump makes the angry, angrier. The louder his voice, the greater the division.
Lock him up to shut him up!
You are letting your emotions takeover from a course that I support in as far as preventing him ever standing again has to be utmost in people's minds and I am not suggesting he should not face due process, but be careful for what you wish for, it could just ignite the issue for years to come
Allowing Trump to continue spouting his propaganda at will, leads down a dark road. Free speech is one thing "propagandagepezete" leads us to rioting in the Reichstag, or the Capitol Building.
He has done something very bad. Punishment rather than retribution is required, that will shut him up too.
He has been worst than very bad, but how you balance justice v peace is the issue for Americans to decide, and the key word is balance
Personally I would be delighted if we never heard another word from him
Your view is the view of Neville Chamberlain.
Now that is silly
If the insurgents had lynched Pence, Pelosi and several dozen Democrat Senators and Representatives, and a few dissenting GOP lawmakers to boot, make no mistake, Trump would have taken it.
What would the balanced response be if a group stormed the HoC with guns with the acquiescence of the police, called for Raab to be hanged, brought a guillotine along with them to do it, and planted bombs outside Tory and Labour HQ?
Surely the point is that fascism has always been a disputed category unless applied to Mussolini and his party? Were Salazar, Franco, Peron etc fascists? Trump certainly belongs to that basket of deplorables to whom the question can be applied.
The point Evans makes is that Fascist ideology subsumes the individual into the war making state - none of which applies to Trump. Populist amoral demagogue, yes, warmaking big state trampler of individual liberties, no.
The "point" is purest wankery and bollocks. There tends to be at least one individual who is not subsumed into the state - the supreme leader. Donald J Trump in this case. There is no question he views himself that way. War making? Trampler of individual liberties? In all probability Yes and Yes if he had succeeded in staying in power despite losing the election. He is a wannabe fascist. Or (ok, Nigel) an incipient fascist. This much is undeniable. He has not become the genuine article because the coup did not work out. Fascism follows successful fascist coups not failed ones.
Anybody who consciously marshals fascists for their own political gain deserves the label.
Mmm. Not a fascist. Just that he tries to overturn an election using white supremacist violence. Not a racist. Just that every racist thinks he is and loves him. Not a misogynist. Just that he thinks women are second order creatures. Wonder what else he isn't?
I usually roll my eyes at the tendency of some of the more histrionic gauchistes to label anything to the right of Mao as fascist - even David Cameron (!) received the label from time to time. Worst of all are the ones who spell it 'facist', usually in the same sentence as 'priviledge'.
But is there any doubt in my mind that Trump is some form (proto-/incipient-/wannabe-/preschool-) of fascist? Not in the slightest. If his IQ were 20-30 points higher, the United States' experiment with democracy might be over now.
Bloggus impeccibus.
I always think of facism as what Robin Cook had to struggle with all his life.
Less than 5% of GOP representatives voted to impeach Trump last night, unless a significantly bigger proportion of GOP Senators vote to convict him, the conviction will fall short of the 2/3 majority required.
However it is possible that Trump could be disbarred from seeking public office again if that passes with just a simple majority once the Democrats take control of the Senate next week.
That, though, would be a far more dangerous precedent to set.
Agreed. A much easier way to knock out potential rivals.
Yes, not sure how it can be justified to prevent him from seeking office if it is considered he has not done enough to be convicted. If they want the former they really have to do the latter.
That many who might convict think there's a chance they don't need to do that to prevent him running, that events will do that for them, is another reason conviction will likely fail. Why stick your neck out if you think the problem will take care of itself?
...and in other news, a raven from the Tower of London is thought to have died. The number is heading perilously close to less than six, suggesting a gloomy prognosis for our nation. (Guardian).
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
Just like Gordon Brown.
Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.
It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.
Leaders of communist and far right movements are usually as bad as each other. But lots of decent people get swept up by communism, whose stated motivation is basically good (but is foolish utopian madness peddled by frauds and demagogues). Far right supporters (who buy into ideas of racial superiority) are all scum. Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.
I suggest you read some history of the development of Fascism. Plenty of followers were ordinary decent people, before they joined the cause. Just like Communism. In fact quite a few went straight from Communism to the Brown Shirts. Literally. They saw Fascism as another Utopian world building project.....
"I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest."
Hmmm. I suggest you read the stories of Stalins purges. Plenty of people thought they were "safe" because they were good Communists. In fact they were first against the wall. Bit like the "Night of the Long Knifes" where a number of those murdered died shouting "Heil Hitler".
I put our chances of making it through communism about 80%, I wouldn't describe that as safe! But for the crime of race mixing I am pretty sure the Nazis would be putting us in a camp PDQ. Plenty of ordinary people supported the Nazis. But decent? Not convinced. Hitler's ideology was obvious from the start. There are a lot of bad people out there, just waiting to get activated by the right bad leader.
Most ordinary people just tend to go along with whatever will give them an easy life. It takes a special sort of person to stick their head above the parapet when you risk getting it blown off.
I've heard many stories from my German MIL about how people generally just accepted what their leaders told them. In particular, the characterisation of other nationalities and races as being inferior to Germans was, by many, simply thought of as normal. It's not as if the belief in the superiority of one's own culture is such an unusual trait, and from there it's not a long step towards the dehumanisation of others.
This was always inevitable. Whether Biden really wants to address the implied threat that a trial would delay the appointment of his cabinet is the real question now.
Democrats will control the senate clock after the 20th, as Schumer not McConnell will be the senate majority leader. Thank goodness.
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
Just like Gordon Brown.
Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.
It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.
Leaders of communist and far right movements are usually as bad as each other. But lots of decent people get swept up by communism, whose stated motivation is basically good (but is foolish utopian madness peddled by frauds and demagogues). Far right supporters (who buy into ideas of racial superiority) are all scum. Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.
I suggest you read some history of the development of Fascism. Plenty of followers were ordinary decent people, before they joined the cause. Just like Communism. In fact quite a few went straight from Communism to the Brown Shirts. Literally. They saw Fascism as another Utopian world building project.....
"I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest."
Hmmm. I suggest you read the stories of Stalins purges. Plenty of people thought they were "safe" because they were good Communists. In fact they were first against the wall. Bit like the "Night of the Long Knifes" where a number of those murdered died shouting "Heil Hitler".
Mussolini and Mosley were both Socialists at one point."
*Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*
"Hitler was not a Socialist. He was a police spy on a Socialist group, hence the name. It rapidly ditched Socialism once he joined properly and took it over.
Sadly Nazi loons running round screaming "The Nazis were Socialists and hence bad. And not us" has toxified that debate.
I actually think that Tolkien describes it quite well - he described the Nazi's as a combination of "The worst of Bolshevism and the worst of Kaiserism"
"This isn’t a moment for gloating and revenge Trump should be punished for inciting the Capitol violence but Democrats would be wise to prioritise national healing David Aaronovitch" (£)
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
Just like Gordon Brown.
Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.
It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.
Leaders of communist and far right movements are usually as bad as each other. But lots of decent people get swept up by communism, whose stated motivation is basically good (but is foolish utopian madness peddled by frauds and demagogues). Far right supporters (who buy into ideas of racial superiority) are all scum. Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.
I suggest you read some history of the development of Fascism. Plenty of followers were ordinary decent people, before they joined the cause. Just like Communism. In fact quite a few went straight from Communism to the Brown Shirts. Literally. They saw Fascism as another Utopian world building project.....
"I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest."
Hmmm. I suggest you read the stories of Stalins purges. Plenty of people thought they were "safe" because they were good Communists. In fact they were first against the wall. Bit like the "Night of the Long Knifes" where a number of those murdered died shouting "Heil Hitler".
Mussolini and Mosley were both Socialists at one point."
*Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*
"Hitler was not a Socialist. He was a police spy on a Socialist group, hence the name. It rapidly ditched Socialism once he joined properly and took it over.
The tinfoil hat I can understand. But why did you grab the ducks as well?
That Trump video was painful to watch. Sat so still that he almost looked chained to his chair. Hands tightly clasped together. Occasionally cocking his head over in disbelief at what was on the autocue.
The Senate trial doesn't matter now. He has already be de facto removed from office and is facing an avalanche of legal problems next week. Federal investigation into sedition and incitement. Potentially federal investigation into treason (over Russia). New York State investigation into his dodgy finances. DC investigation into last week's failed coup.
His brand is trash. His lines of credit pulled with hundreds of millions of Dollars owed. A fire sale of assets at the very least. And Giuliani will sue him for non-payment of his legal fees.
And all because a Capitol Police shot Ashli Babbitt...
My fear is the millions of Trump supporters who are armed and ready to continue this battle and every move against Trump, warranted as it is, will only prolong the bitter and dangerous division
Vengeance may satisfy some, but at what cost to the many who are desperate to turn the page on this catastrophic Trump period
But it isn't just vengeance, it is justice that should be sought. The man incited an attempted coup. A coup attempt which left five people dead.
What is wrong with you people who are suggesting he walks free, in the interests of "peace". to continue as a shadow President, a President in waiting who can spew his seditious propaganda to the angry and disenchanted?
Donald Trump makes the angry, angrier. The louder his voice, the greater the division.
Lock him up to shut him up!
You are letting your emotions takeover from a course that I support in as far as preventing him ever standing again has to be utmost in people's minds and I am not suggesting he should not face due process, but be careful for what you wish for, it could just ignite the issue for years to come
Allowing Trump to continue spouting his propaganda at will, leads down a dark road. Free speech is one thing "propagandagepezete" leads us to rioting in the Reichstag, or the Capitol Building.
He has done something very bad. Punishment rather than retribution is required, that will shut him up too.
He has been worst than very bad, but how you balance justice v peace is the issue for Americans to decide, and the key word is balance
Personally I would be delighted if we never heard another word from him
Your view is the view of Neville Chamberlain.
Now that is silly
If the insurgents had lynched Pence, Pelosi and several dozen Democrat Senators and Representatives, and a few dissenting GOP lawmakers to boot, make no mistake, Trump would have taken it.
What would the balanced response be if a group stormed the HoC with guns with the acquiescence of the police, called for Raab to be hanged, brought a guillotine along with them to do it, and planted bombs outside Tory and Labour HQ?
Probably for the Lib Dems to moan they weren't getting any publicity.
I did see an amusing post claiming that Amazon should be doing the delivery of the vaccine because it would all be done by next Saturday and by this Wednesday if you were a prime customer.
I really don't like the company or the way it does business but its logistics are approaching genius level.
And being honest given the time available it makes sense to delay things until after the 20th - then you have as long as necessary to do things and can slowly damage Trump's reputation further by releasing things bit by bit.
It's a strange capacity that Trump has to make his opponents as bad as he is. This post really doesn't have a good vibe to it, and it's among many from various posters recently. I'm looking forward to posters doing themselves more justice in future.
Wait until the Salmond allegations really hit home.
Though of course there will be no indyref2 allowed by the UK government anyway whatever happens in May, 2014 was a 'once in a generation' vote.
Yeah right, I believe you were also saying there'd be a Tory bounce in Scotland following the Brexit deal given the way you were breathlessly retweeting a Scottish subsample.
The Tories are mainly down on the list, on the constituency vote there is actually a small swing from the SNP to the Conservatives since the last poll. The constituency vote is key as the SNP will get few list seats anyway, it does not matter for Unionists so much if Labour get a few list seats from the Tories
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
Just like Gordon Brown.
Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.
It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.
Leaders of communist and far right movements are usually as bad as each other. But lots of decent people get swept up by communism, whose stated motivation is basically good (but is foolish utopian madness peddled by frauds and demagogues). Far right supporters (who buy into ideas of racial superiority) are all scum. Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.
We've had this one a few times - in fact we've had every one a few times - and yes I think that, although Totalitarian Leftism is the pits, the Far Right are the double pits, and for 2 main reasons -
The actual ideology is 100% wicked. There can be no argument made that "White Supremacy is the way to go, it just hasn't been properly implemented yet."
At the apex, the leaders of far left and far right might be comparably ghastly but at the base - the supporters - it's no contest. The ration of scumbags to the misguided vulnerable is much higher on the far right.
Less than 5% of GOP representatives voted to impeach Trump last night, unless a significantly bigger proportion of GOP Senators vote to convict him, the conviction will fall short of the 2/3 majority required.
However it is possible that Trump could be disbarred from seeking public office again if that passes with just a simple majority once the Democrats take control of the Senate next week.
That, though, would be a far more dangerous precedent to set.
Agreed. A much easier way to knock out potential rivals.
Yes, not sure how it can be justified to prevent him from seeking office if it is considered he has not done enough to be convicted. If they want the former they really have to do the latter.
That many who might convict think there's a chance they don't need to do thta to prevent him running, that events will do that for them, is another reason conviction will likely fail. Why stick your neck out if you think the problem will take care of itself?
Money? Whilst Trumps base might largely fund his and his surrogates activities, the likes of McConnell rely on corporate donors who are not going to play with Trumpism still around, at least for the next 2 years.
A little more time considering treaties and long term implications from politicians generally might not go amiss.
As I pointed out at the time, there wasn't a lot of point in reading it before the vote as no modifications could be made. The choice was Deal (half baked) or No Deal.
@NickPalmer has pointed out in the past that MPs should be able to not read the detail on every bill, as that was the point of whips instructing how to vote. It does rather rely on the whips/party leaders having read it though.
You would hope that the minister responsible for the area would read it. Ken Clarke didn't read Maastricht because it wasn't his responsibility - other cabinet ministers had that responsibility.
Everyone else will be operating on the assumption that the person responsible should have read it and agreed to it. But hey that clearly isn't Boris's way.
If I was a Minister I would have read it because I am a lawyer and therefore slightly anal about these things but I can see the argument for most politicians is that what you really want is advice and information on the sticking points, the controversial issues and how this is going to affect your constituents. There are hundreds of pages of the deal that are just boring boilerplate and frankly not that interesting.
Isn't the difference with these trade deals that, by the time they reach Parliament, they need to be either approved or not, with no chance of amendment unlike most legislation.
There was no opportunity to argue the deal line by line in Parliament, because that had already been done by the negotiating team, with the other side.
Yes, I made that point at the time. There is no room for amendment. You can of course highlight the problem, as you see it, with clause 679 but whether that problem determines your vote in favour or against is part of an overall weighing process and, in this case, deal rather than no deal was a no brainer given the totally inadequate preparation for the latter.
The deal spent all its time looking at tariffs which as an economist is the thing you usually worry about.
The killer issue here is that no-one understood how bad the introduction of paperwork was going to be. And while in theory you can automate it away you can only do so if both teams co-operate and there is zero reason for EU countries to co-operate unless there is an incentive for them to do so.
And that incentive simply doesn't exist - they can drown us in paperwork by stating it's incomplete and there is nothing we can do about it.
The incentive remains obvious. They have 80bn incentives a year and every one of them a £1.00. Do they really want their exports subject to this sort of nonsense? Do they really want it to be easier for a UK importer to import Australian wine rather than French? Of course not. It will be toned down with trusted trader schemes and other steps to remove the problem over time as the heat goes out of this. Its inevitable.
The longer the EU let this fester, the more obvious it becomes they are really not a trading organisation, but a political one, that will throw its traders to the wolves. One we were right to leave.
So we leave an organisation whose primary raison d'etre is to reduce friction between its members, and then complain about the resulting friction and say it proves we were right to leave?
Yes, almost exactly at 5% and going at a much faster rate of 0.3% per day added before the major centres have ramped up and pharmacies have started. I think we're on track for around 0.7% added per day by the end of next week when you take into account all of the new vaccine centres and the addition of the pharmacies.
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
Just like Gordon Brown.
Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.
It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.
Leaders of communist and far right movements are usually as bad as each other. But lots of decent people get swept up by communism, whose stated motivation is basically good (but is foolish utopian madness peddled by frauds and demagogues). Far right supporters (who buy into ideas of racial superiority) are all scum. Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.
I suggest you read some history of the development of Fascism. Plenty of followers were ordinary decent people, before they joined the cause. Just like Communism. In fact quite a few went straight from Communism to the Brown Shirts. Literally. They saw Fascism as another Utopian world building project.....
"I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest."
Hmmm. I suggest you read the stories of Stalins purges. Plenty of people thought they were "safe" because they were good Communists. In fact they were first against the wall. Bit like the "Night of the Long Knifes" where a number of those murdered died shouting "Heil Hitler".
I put our chances of making it through communism about 80%, I wouldn't describe that as safe! But for the crime of race mixing I am pretty sure the Nazis would be putting us in a camp PDQ. Plenty of ordinary people supported the Nazis. But decent? Not convinced. Hitler's ideology was obvious from the start. There are a lot of bad people out there, just waiting to get activated by the right bad leader.
The fact you are interested in talking about politics puts your survival in Stalins idea of Utopia at about 50% - just as a start.
I need to dig the book off my shelf - actually recommended it the other day. Chap went to Germany after the war and befriended some small town people. Got them talking about their trajectory. The way they disconnected from/ignored the "bad" bits of the program has a resonance in the way people talk(ed) about the "good" bits of Stalinism and ignored the whole gulag thing.
Less than 5% of GOP representatives voted to impeach Trump last night, unless a significantly bigger proportion of GOP Senators vote to convict him, the conviction will fall short of the 2/3 majority required.
However it is possible that Trump could be disbarred from seeking public office again if that passes with just a simple majority once the Democrats take control of the Senate next week.
That, though, would be a far more dangerous precedent to set.
I don't think it is correct. The simple majority for disbarring him only applies if they get the 2/3 majority to convict.
Here's another question.
Even if he isn't impeached, can the Senate bar him from running for office again by a majority vote?
Can see that causing all sorts of fun, but it's entirely possible the Dems would try.
I think you bump into arguments about the Constitution being a complete code for who can stand and who can't.
And being honest given the time available it makes sense to delay things until after the 20th - then you have as long as necessary to do things and can slowly damage Trump's reputation further by releasing things bit by bit.
It's a strange capacity that Trump has to make his opponents as bad as he is. This post really doesn't have a good vibe to it, and it's among many from various posters recently. I'm looking forward to posters doing themselves more justice in future.
It's very hard to play by the book when your opponent doesn't but you have to and have to be seen to be doing so.
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
Just like Gordon Brown.
Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
Far more Lenin than Brown because it all went on tanks and missiles rather schools and hospitals.
Surely the point is that fascism has always been a disputed category unless applied to Mussolini and his party? Were Salazar, Franco, Peron etc fascists? Trump certainly belongs to that basket of deplorables to whom the question can be applied.
The point Evans makes is that Fascist ideology subsumes the individual into the war making state - none of which applies to Trump. Populist amoral demagogue, yes, warmaking big state trampler of individual liberties, no.
The "point" is purest wankery and bollocks. There tends to be at least one individual who is not subsumed into the state - the supreme leader. Donald J Trump in this case. There is no question he views himself that way. War making? Trampler of individual liberties? In all probability Yes and Yes if he had succeeded in staying in power despite losing the election. He is a wannabe fascist. Or (ok, Nigel) an incipient fascist. This much is undeniable. He has not become the genuine article because the coup did not work out. Fascism follows successful fascist coups not failed ones.
Anybody who consciously marshals fascists for their own political gain deserves the label.
Mmm. Not a fascist. Just that he tries to overturn an election using white supremacist violence. Not a racist. Just that every racist thinks he is and loves him. Not a misogynist. Just that he thinks women are second order creatures. Wonder what else he isn't?
I usually roll my eyes at the tendency of some of the more histrionic gauchistes to label anything to the right of Mao as fascist - even David Cameron (!) received the label from time to time. Worst of all are the ones who spell it 'facist', usually in the same sentence as 'priviledge'.
But is there any doubt in my mind that Trump is some form (proto-/incipient-/wannabe-/preschool-) of fascist? Not in the slightest. If his IQ were 20-30 points higher, the United States' experiment with democracy might be over now.
Think it's his EQ that was really lacking.
It's worth being clear here.
If Trump had stopped for 30 seconds and realized that encouraging early voting gave more opportunities for his voters to vote he would have won the election.
True. There are numerous smaller examples too. Here's one. John McCain. All he had to do was pay gracious tribute to a war hero and lifelong Republican. But he couldn't. Because he was Donald Trump. Had he done so, it is easy to see how he held Arizona on that alone. It is also possible that his denigration of the military lost him the other States necessary. He didn't have a proper plan. Because he's Donald Trump.
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
Just like Gordon Brown.
Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.
It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.
Leaders of communist and far right movements are usually as bad as each other. But lots of decent people get swept up by communism, whose stated motivation is basically good (but is foolish utopian madness peddled by frauds and demagogues). Far right supporters (who buy into ideas of racial superiority) are all scum. Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.
I suggest you read some history of the development of Fascism. Plenty of followers were ordinary decent people, before they joined the cause. Just like Communism. In fact quite a few went straight from Communism to the Brown Shirts. Literally. They saw Fascism as another Utopian world building project.....
"I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest."
Hmmm. I suggest you read the stories of Stalins purges. Plenty of people thought they were "safe" because they were good Communists. In fact they were first against the wall. Bit like the "Night of the Long Knifes" where a number of those murdered died shouting "Heil Hitler".
I put our chances of making it through communism about 80%, I wouldn't describe that as safe! But for the crime of race mixing I am pretty sure the Nazis would be putting us in a camp PDQ. Plenty of ordinary people supported the Nazis. But decent? Not convinced. Hitler's ideology was obvious from the start. There are a lot of bad people out there, just waiting to get activated by the right bad leader.
The fact you are interested in talking about politics puts your survival in Stalins idea of Utopia at about 50% - just as a start.
I need to dig the book off my shelf - actually recommended it the other day. Chap went to Germany after the war and befriended some small town people. Got them talking about their trajectory. The way they disconnected from/ignored the "bad" bits of the program has a resonance in the way people talk(ed) about the "good" bits of Stalinism and ignored the whole gulag thing.
Surely the point is that fascism has always been a disputed category unless applied to Mussolini and his party? Were Salazar, Franco, Peron etc fascists? Trump certainly belongs to that basket of deplorables to whom the question can be applied.
The point Evans makes is that Fascist ideology subsumes the individual into the war making state - none of which applies to Trump. Populist amoral demagogue, yes, warmaking big state trampler of individual liberties, no.
The "point" is purest wankery and bollocks. There tends to be at least one individual who is not subsumed into the state - the supreme leader. Donald J Trump in this case. There is no question he views himself that way. War making? Trampler of individual liberties? In all probability Yes and Yes if he had succeeded in staying in power despite losing the election. He is a wannabe fascist. Or (ok, Nigel) an incipient fascist. This much is undeniable. He has not become the genuine article because the coup did not work out. Fascism follows successful fascist coups not failed ones.
Anybody who consciously marshals fascists for their own political gain deserves the label.
Mmm. Not a fascist. Just that he tries to overturn an election using white supremacist violence. Not a racist. Just that every racist thinks he is and loves him. Not a misogynist. Just that he thinks women are second order creatures. Wonder what else he isn't?
I usually roll my eyes at the tendency of some of the more histrionic gauchistes to label anything to the right of Mao as fascist - even David Cameron (!) received the label from time to time. Worst of all are the ones who spell it 'facist', usually in the same sentence as 'priviledge'.
But is there any doubt in my mind that Trump is some form (proto-/incipient-/wannabe-/preschool-) of fascist? Not in the slightest. If his IQ were 20-30 points higher, the United States' experiment with democracy might be over now.
Think it's his EQ that was really lacking.
It's worth being clear here.
If Trump had stopped for 30 seconds and realized that encouraging early voting gave more opportunities for his voters to vote he would have won the election.
True. There are numerous smaller examples too. Here's one. John McCain. All he had to do was pay gracious tribute to a war hero and lifelong Republican. But he couldn't. Because he was Donald Trump. Had he done so, it is easy to see how he held Arizona on that alone. It is also possible that his denigration of the military lost him the other States necessary. He didn't have a proper plan. Because he's Donald Trump.
The list is a long one but nothing beats his decision to deny Covid instead of accepting the science and leading the country through it.
Surely the point is that fascism has always been a disputed category unless applied to Mussolini and his party? Were Salazar, Franco, Peron etc fascists? Trump certainly belongs to that basket of deplorables to whom the question can be applied.
The point Evans makes is that Fascist ideology subsumes the individual into the war making state - none of which applies to Trump. Populist amoral demagogue, yes, warmaking big state trampler of individual liberties, no.
The "point" is purest wankery and bollocks. There tends to be at least one individual who is not subsumed into the state - the supreme leader. Donald J Trump in this case. There is no question he views himself that way. War making? Trampler of individual liberties? In all probability Yes and Yes if he had succeeded in staying in power despite losing the election. He is a wannabe fascist. Or (ok, Nigel) an incipient fascist. This much is undeniable. He has not become the genuine article because the coup did not work out. Fascism follows successful fascist coups not failed ones.
Anybody who consciously marshals fascists for their own political gain deserves the label.
Mmm. Not a fascist. Just that he tries to overturn an election using white supremacist violence. Not a racist. Just that every racist thinks he is and loves him. Not a misogynist. Just that he thinks women are second order creatures. Wonder what else he isn't?
I usually roll my eyes at the tendency of some of the more histrionic gauchistes to label anything to the right of Mao as fascist - even David Cameron (!) received the label from time to time. Worst of all are the ones who spell it 'facist', usually in the same sentence as 'priviledge'.
But is there any doubt in my mind that Trump is some form (proto-/incipient-/wannabe-/preschool-) of fascist? Not in the slightest. If his IQ were 20-30 points higher, the United States' experiment with democracy might be over now.
Bloggus impeccibus.
I always think of facism as what Robin Cook had to struggle with all his life.
Gove has taken over the mantle.
I hate to suggest that there may be some genetic Scotch element to it...
I made a comment yesterday that there were likely to be big geographical differences in vaccination rates. Just heard another anecdote.
My parents (78 and 72) are in Berkshire near Reading and they haven't been contacted yet about their vaccines. They have a friend who is closer to Reading who is 71 and has their vaccination scheduled for today. Meanwhile my 84 year old father in law in Buckinghamshire has not heard anything.
If this situation goes further out of line then I can see this becoming an issue. Particularly if some locations get through the top 4 priority groups and then start on the rest whilst some parts of the country are still well behind.
Especially if it turns out that the North is missing out or that certain deprived postcodes aren't getting supplies and so on.
A lot of it depends on how proactice surgeries are. In Southampton some surgeries have got through their 80+ people and are now moving on to their 75+ . Others have barely done any.
Currently I think it's logistics that are the issue as Pfizer has complex requirements.
From memory Southampton University Hospital is a hub so moving that vaccine around Southampton is so much easier than say South Cumbria where the nearest hub is Carlisle.
The difference between neighbouring surgeries in Southampton is remarkable.
As with so much with the NHS. You need pointy elbows and to shout loudly to get just about anything done.
I would bet those surgeries with the vaccine were pro-active; those without were/are still waiting to be contacted.
If you are elderly and turn up looking confused or weak many places will assume you are always like that.
A friend had a treatable bone cancer but turned up in a bit of a state due to a calcium imbalance. She was given a week or so by the first doctor and effectively consigned to the bin. Once her daughter turned up and pointed out that, no, this wasn't her normal state someone actually looked and found the problem. She is still going 2 years later, as once the treatment started the service was fine.
A similar thing happened to my Dad when he had an infection (which often causes dementia-like symptoms). I had to be there to say - no, this isn't normal, look again.
Not everywhere is like that, but...
Sorry to be late responding but abso-bloody-lutely. Sadly a very familiar-type story.
Mine was that my mother (89yrs old at the time) had water on the brain. Which for all the world presents like a doddering, dementia-y 89yr old. It rapidly deteriorated so she was unable to walk/talk/etc. Dementia/age they said. Except there were key symptoms and causes. Which the NHS simply did not (choose to?) address.
It was left to my sister and google overnight (literally for 10 hours) to unpick the condition, the symptoms and then make a diagnosis. We then took that to the doctors and after *a lot* of pushing, quite nasty at times tbh, they accepted it, took action, and finally treated her for it. She is now playing chess with me in person and with her granddaughters online and still has the odd game of online scrabble with her scrabble club.
Time and time again left to its own devices the NHS will simply not bother, or does not have the organisational structure to make the extra effort.
Yikes.
I don't know if it is institutional, individuals, or just that doctors and staff are too busy. I'd like to believe the 'too busy' explanation but I'm not convinced. It seems to be discrimination based on prejudice.
In a horrible piece of irony, the (not terribly old) doctor that gave the friend a week to live died of Covid. Never send to know...
...and in other news, a raven from the Tower of London is thought to have died. The number is heading perilously close to less than six, suggesting a gloomy prognosis for our nation. (Guardian).
The keeper on the Today programme this morning suggested that one of the ravens had actually been "fired" and "marched off the premises", for attacking roof aerials or similar, so technically we're still OK.
Surely the point is that fascism has always been a disputed category unless applied to Mussolini and his party? Were Salazar, Franco, Peron etc fascists? Trump certainly belongs to that basket of deplorables to whom the question can be applied.
The point Evans makes is that Fascist ideology subsumes the individual into the war making state - none of which applies to Trump. Populist amoral demagogue, yes, warmaking big state trampler of individual liberties, no.
The "point" is purest wankery and bollocks. There tends to be at least one individual who is not subsumed into the state - the supreme leader. Donald J Trump in this case. There is no question he views himself that way. War making? Trampler of individual liberties? In all probability Yes and Yes if he had succeeded in staying in power despite losing the election. He is a wannabe fascist. Or (ok, Nigel) an incipient fascist. This much is undeniable. He has not become the genuine article because the coup did not work out. Fascism follows successful fascist coups not failed ones.
Anybody who consciously marshals fascists for their own political gain deserves the label.
Mmm. Not a fascist. Just that he tries to overturn an election using white supremacist violence. Not a racist. Just that every racist thinks he is and loves him. Not a misogynist. Just that he thinks women are second order creatures. Wonder what else he isn't?
I usually roll my eyes at the tendency of some of the more histrionic gauchistes to label anything to the right of Mao as fascist - even David Cameron (!) received the label from time to time. Worst of all are the ones who spell it 'facist', usually in the same sentence as 'priviledge'.
But is there any doubt in my mind that Trump is some form (proto-/incipient-/wannabe-/preschool-) of fascist? Not in the slightest. If his IQ were 20-30 points higher, the United States' experiment with democracy might be over now.
Think it's his EQ that was really lacking.
It's worth being clear here.
If Trump had stopped for 30 seconds and realized that encouraging early voting gave more opportunities for his voters to vote he would have won the election.
True. There are numerous smaller examples too. Here's one. John McCain. All he had to do was pay gracious tribute to a war hero and lifelong Republican. But he couldn't. Because he was Donald Trump. Had he done so, it is easy to see how he held Arizona on that alone. It is also possible that his denigration of the military lost him the other States necessary. He didn't have a proper plan. Because he's Donald Trump.
His reaction to the election result is another. He could have played up how close it was (it wasn't that), showed a bit of grace and he would now be looking at multi-million dollar trump tv / slot on fox, still have his twitter, flogging loads of crap to his followers....and maybe not him, but perhaps Ivanka could stand in 4 years, and win.
Instead nobody is going to do business with him and he will go bust.
"This isn’t a moment for gloating and revenge Trump should be punished for inciting the Capitol violence but Democrats would be wise to prioritise national healing David Aaronovitch" (£)
Problem is the more time that goes on the less likely he is to receive punishment via the impeachment process, and given that is a power given to Congress they should use it and not rely on potential punishment elsewhere.
Surely the point is that fascism has always been a disputed category unless applied to Mussolini and his party? Were Salazar, Franco, Peron etc fascists? Trump certainly belongs to that basket of deplorables to whom the question can be applied.
The point Evans makes is that Fascist ideology subsumes the individual into the war making state - none of which applies to Trump. Populist amoral demagogue, yes, warmaking big state trampler of individual liberties, no.
The "point" is purest wankery and bollocks. There tends to be at least one individual who is not subsumed into the state - the supreme leader. Donald J Trump in this case. There is no question he views himself that way. War making? Trampler of individual liberties? In all probability Yes and Yes if he had succeeded in staying in power despite losing the election. He is a wannabe fascist. Or (ok, Nigel) an incipient fascist. This much is undeniable. He has not become the genuine article because the coup did not work out. Fascism follows successful fascist coups not failed ones.
Anybody who consciously marshals fascists for their own political gain deserves the label.
Mmm. Not a fascist. Just that he tries to overturn an election using white supremacist violence. Not a racist. Just that every racist thinks he is and loves him. Not a misogynist. Just that he thinks women are second order creatures. Wonder what else he isn't?
I usually roll my eyes at the tendency of some of the more histrionic gauchistes to label anything to the right of Mao as fascist - even David Cameron (!) received the label from time to time. Worst of all are the ones who spell it 'facist', usually in the same sentence as 'priviledge'.
But is there any doubt in my mind that Trump is some form (proto-/incipient-/wannabe-/preschool-) of fascist? Not in the slightest. If his IQ were 20-30 points higher, the United States' experiment with democracy might be over now.
Think it's his EQ that was really lacking.
It's worth being clear here.
If Trump had stopped for 30 seconds and realized that encouraging early voting gave more opportunities for his voters to vote he would have won the election.
True. There are numerous smaller examples too. Here's one. John McCain. All he had to do was pay gracious tribute to a war hero and lifelong Republican. But he couldn't. Because he was Donald Trump. Had he done so, it is easy to see how he held Arizona on that alone. It is also possible that his denigration of the military lost him the other States necessary. He didn't have a proper plan. Because he's Donald Trump.
The list is a long one but nothing beats his decision to deny Covid instead of accepting the science and leading the country through it.
He could have won a landslide.
And with Operation Warp speed, even if he lost there would be a footnote of Trump did well with vaccine funding / planning.
Less than 5% of GOP representatives voted to impeach Trump last night, unless a significantly bigger proportion of GOP Senators vote to convict him, the conviction will fall short of the 2/3 majority required.
However it is possible that Trump could be disbarred from seeking public office again if that passes with just a simple majority once the Democrats take control of the Senate next week.
That, though, would be a far more dangerous precedent to set.
Agreed. A much easier way to knock out potential rivals.
Yes, not sure how it can be justified to prevent him from seeking office if it is considered he has not done enough to be convicted. If they want the former they really have to do the latter.
That many who might convict think there's a chance they don't need to do thta to prevent him running, that events will do that for them, is another reason conviction will likely fail. Why stick your neck out if you think the problem will take care of itself?
Money? Whilst Trumps base might largely fund his and his surrogates activities, the likes of McConnell rely on corporate donors who are not going to play with Trumpism still around, at least for the next 2 years.
Money and the worry that Trump will continue to be a force in the party are the only reasons I could see most of them deciding to convict. The latter they might think they can deal with over time anyway, so the former really needs to be strong in their minds, and the belief that the corporate doners won't change their tune over time.
Wait until the Salmond allegations really hit home.
Though of course there will be no indyref2 allowed by the UK government anyway whatever happens in May, 2014 was a 'once in a generation' vote.
Yeah right, I believe you were also saying there'd be a Tory bounce in Scotland following the Brexit deal given the way you were breathlessly retweeting a Scottish subsample.
The Tories are mainly down on the list, on the constituency vote there is actually a small swing from the SNP to the Conservatives since the last poll. The constituency vote is key as the SNP will get few list seats anyway, it does not matter for Unionists so much if Labour get a few list seats from the Tories
The fact that Trump is an arch-capitalist almost disqualifies him from being a fascist on its own. True fascists despise capitalism because it operates independent of their authority and isn't controllable. But of course people use the word as a synonym for "a really bad person".
Given his litany of bankruptcies and the fact the state generally picked up the tab it is fair to say Trump is a socialist.
He was also running a fiscal deficit close to 5% of GDP at the top of the economic cycle, pre Covid, which looks weird for a normal centre right politician.
Just like Gordon Brown.
Further proof that Trump is a socialist.
Well about twice as much as Gordon Brown, and at a stronger point in the economic cycle. Since it has been proven (by repeated assertion on PB) that Brown's spending was reckless and out of control Leftist madness then Trump must basically be Lenin.
I'm a believer in the horseshoe theory.
It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.
Leaders of communist and far right movements are usually as bad as each other. But lots of decent people get swept up by communism, whose stated motivation is basically good (but is foolish utopian madness peddled by frauds and demagogues). Far right supporters (who buy into ideas of racial superiority) are all scum. Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.
I suggest you read some history of the development of Fascism. Plenty of followers were ordinary decent people, before they joined the cause. Just like Communism. In fact quite a few went straight from Communism to the Brown Shirts. Literally. They saw Fascism as another Utopian world building project.....
"I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest."
Hmmm. I suggest you read the stories of Stalins purges. Plenty of people thought they were "safe" because they were good Communists. In fact they were first against the wall. Bit like the "Night of the Long Knifes" where a number of those murdered died shouting "Heil Hitler".
Mussolini and Mosley were both Socialists at one point."
*Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*
"Hitler was not a Socialist. He was a police spy on a Socialist group, hence the name. It rapidly ditched Socialism once he joined properly and took it over.
The tinfoil hat I can understand. But why did you grab the ducks as well?
If it goosesteps like a duck.. (that's enough Anatidae -ed)
I did see an amusing post claiming that Amazon should be doing the delivery of the vaccine because it would all be done by next Saturday and by this Wednesday if you were a prime customer.
I really don't like the company or the way it does business but its logistics are approaching genius level.
I remember a similar joke around how Somalia had not had a functioning central government for over a decade but you could get an ice cold Coke in all places there, and just about everywhere else on earth, so might as well make Coca Cola the government.
As this points out, provoking media storms over the minutiae of the PM’s exercise habits is not just irrelevant, but crowds out discussion and messaging on the single thing which would make the most difference. And which government policy has barely addressed, compared to all their other efforts.
Which is what @MaxPB and others were banging on about months ago.
I actually don't know what the isolation rule is these days and I am far more engaged than most. I don't know the last time I heard leading politcians or the eggheads talk about this.
Comments
It is why I also hate communists as much as the far right.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08B9LRX33?smid=A1G3UP32AZJ14F
If you fail to deter or detain them with ordinary judicial procedures, they will keep coming back until you are forced to shoot them or let them shoot you.
Not a fascist. Just that he tries to overturn an election using white supremacist violence.
Not a racist. Just that every racist thinks he is and loves him.
Not a misogynist. Just that he thinks women are second order creatures.
Wonder what else he isn't?
I say "may". I'd rather take a safety first approach - rather than the Government's "may not". The consequences of them being wrong is a broken economy.
Who the hell is privately lobbying to keep them open?
Also, if the equivalent of Soviet communists took over this country, I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest.
A little more than 99p I'm afraid but worth it.
https://www.waterstones.com/book/putins-people/catherine-belton/9780007578795
But is there any doubt in my mind that Trump is some form (proto-/incipient-/wannabe-/preschool-) of fascist? Not in the slightest. If his IQ were 20-30 points higher, the United States' experiment with democracy might be over now.
Once you cross into violent revolution balance is no longer required or desired.
I'm everything the far right say the grandson of (Muslim) immigrants to this country cannot be.
I think it's greatest compliment I've ever received in my pb.com career.
If Trump had stopped for 30 seconds and realized that encouraging early voting gave more opportunities for his voters to vote he would have won the election.
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1349644124996186112?s=20.
The Tories are mainly down on the list vote, on the constituency vote there is actually a small swing from the SNP to the Conservatives since the last poll (the SNP constituency vote is down by more than the SCon constituency vote). The constituency vote is key as the SNP will get few list seats anyway, it does not matter for Unionists so much if Labour get a few list seats from the Tories
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1349643484878303233?s=20
"I would reckon my family would have about an 80% chance of living through it. Under the Nazis it would be about zero. So for me it's no contest."
Hmmm. I suggest you read the stories of Stalins purges. Plenty of people thought they were "safe" because they were good Communists. In fact they were first against the wall. Bit like the "Night of the Long Knifes" where a number of those murdered died shouting "Heil Hitler".
To which I would say that is absolutely bloody nonsense. If in practice they do a lot of the same things in the same brutal, authoritarian way, then quibbling that their official motivations are different and therefore one is better than the other seems like a very weird position to take.
If they look and act pretty much the same, they are close enough as far as I am concerned.
Mine was that my mother (89yrs old at the time) had water on the brain. Which for all the world presents like a doddering, dementia-y 89yr old. It rapidly deteriorated so she was unable to walk/talk/etc. Dementia/age they said. Except there were key symptoms and causes. Which the NHS simply did not (choose to?) address.
It was left to my sister and google overnight (literally for 10 hours) to unpick the condition, the symptoms and then make a diagnosis. We then took that to the doctors and after *a lot* of pushing, quite nasty at times tbh, they accepted it, took action, and finally treated her for it. She is now playing chess with me in person and with her granddaughters online and still has the odd game of online scrabble with her scrabble club.
Time and time again left to its own devices the NHS will simply not bother, or does not have the organisational structure to make the extra effort.
Plenty of ordinary people supported the Nazis. But decent? Not convinced. Hitler's ideology was obvious from the start. There are a lot of bad people out there, just waiting to get activated by the right bad leader.
First doses - 2,639,309
Total population from ONS data - 66,796,807
https://twitter.com/BBCTomEdwards/status/1349650712444203008
Though at least a number of masks are visible.
Puts into context all the angst over Leon’s mulled wine walks.
*Grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*
"Hitler was not a Socialist. He was a police spy on a Socialist group, hence the name. It rapidly ditched Socialism once he joined properly and took it over.
https://youtu.be/2qanMpnYsjk
Even if he isn't impeached, can the Senate bar him from running for office again by a majority vote?
Can see that causing all sorts of fun, but it's entirely possible the Dems would try.
That many who might convict think there's a chance they don't need to do that to prevent him running, that events will do that for them, is another reason conviction will likely fail. Why stick your neck out if you think the problem will take care of itself?
...and in other news, a raven from the Tower of London is thought to have died. The number is heading perilously close to less than six, suggesting a gloomy prognosis for our nation. (Guardian).
What are they thinking?
I've heard many stories from my German MIL about how people generally just accepted what their leaders told them. In particular, the characterisation of other nationalities and races as being inferior to Germans was, by many, simply thought of as normal. It's not as if the belief in the superiority of one's own culture is such an unusual trait, and from there it's not a long step towards the dehumanisation of others.
I actually think that Tolkien describes it quite well - he described the Nazi's as a combination of "The worst of Bolshevism and the worst of Kaiserism"
Trump should be punished for inciting the Capitol violence but Democrats would be wise to prioritise national healing
David Aaronovitch" (£)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/this-isn-t-a-moment-for-gloating-and-revenge-rptt07wpg
I really don't like the company or the way it does business but its logistics are approaching genius level.
The actual ideology is 100% wicked. There can be no argument made that "White Supremacy is the way to go, it just hasn't been properly implemented yet."
At the apex, the leaders of far left and far right might be comparably ghastly but at the base - the supporters - it's no contest. The ration of scumbags to the misguided vulnerable is much higher on the far right.
https://twitter.com/fishingforleave/status/1347450935472254977
Yes we voted for leave and granted you are not involved in fishing but it's remain's fault that we have problem exporting fish.
A fine effort from him.
I need to dig the book off my shelf - actually recommended it the other day. Chap went to Germany after the war and befriended some small town people. Got them talking about their trajectory. The way they disconnected from/ignored the "bad" bits of the program has a resonance in the way people talk(ed) about the "good" bits of Stalinism and ignored the whole gulag thing.
1 - Its a roaring success
2 - If not the people who campaigned for Brexit and led the post vote govts are held responsible
I am not expecting either wish to come true.
Here's one. John McCain.
All he had to do was pay gracious tribute to a war hero and lifelong Republican.
But he couldn't. Because he was Donald Trump.
Had he done so, it is easy to see how he held Arizona on that alone. It is also possible that his denigration of the military lost him the other States necessary.
He didn't have a proper plan. Because he's Donald Trump.
He could have won a landslide.
I hate to suggest that there may be some genetic Scotch element to it...
I don't know if it is institutional, individuals, or just that doctors and staff are too busy. I'd like to believe the 'too busy' explanation but I'm not convinced. It seems to be discrimination based on prejudice.
In a horrible piece of irony, the (not terribly old) doctor that gave the friend a week to live died of Covid. Never send to know...
Instead nobody is going to do business with him and he will go bust.
https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/status/1349460083424567299
https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/status/1349466181518970883
https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/status/1349467287754076160
Which is what @MaxPB and others were banging on about months ago.
And which government policy has barely addressed, compared to all their other efforts.
https://twitter.com/rowlsmanthorpe/status/1349468460238172160
p.s. I don't usually insist on titles, but if anything, it's 'Dr.' (formerly 'Mr.'), not 'Ms.'!