Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

Leave looks like…Has Brexit met Vote Leave’s prospectus? – politicalbetting.com

124678

Comments

  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,174
    rcs1000 said:

    On the Johnson & Johnson jab, their CEO said yesterday at a conference that they were in the final stages of analysing the data and would be releasing results shortly. He also indicated they would be applying for Emergency Use authorisation.

    This sounds to me like (a) it will be reasonably good news and (b) it will be released this week or next.

    As a reminder, the UK ordered 30 million doses back in August, and was the first to confirm their order. So, that could be extremely good news.

    Unusually, the EU didn't fuck up with J&J and has 200 million doses ordered as of early September, with an option for another 200 million (presumably in case that a two dose regime in necessary).

    The US has a 100 million dose order, but only confirmed it in October.

    Now, that doesn't guarantee that doses will be delivered in the order they were received (indeed, you'd expect them to start shipping to all the major buyers as soon as approval is granted), but it does suggest the Western world may soon be in a much, much better place as far as vaccine supply goes.

    This one has even got the big man's name on it...twice.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/01/12/gps-leading-way-covid-vaccine-rollout-forced-slow/

    Although frustrating, it does seem fair to ensure each region is given equitable access.

    It's a difficult balance - no easy answers.
    Come April / May, we should have more vaccine than we know what to do with. Be doing BOGOF in Tescos.
    I thought they were supposed to be targeting 2M a week?

    At the moment supply is the constraint. Come April, we will have 3 (and possibly 4) different vaccines. If we can't do 3 million a week then, well the government will have some questions to answer.
    Yes, but the first target the government is definitely committed to is in mid-Feb, so the 2m a week thing needs to kick in PDQ to do that. Not that it can't be done, but it's gonna need some serious ramp up.
    If the government really do manage to open 50 of these large sites working longer hours if required and that should be possible, provided the supply is there. There are 14 million doses made, but they aren't bottled, and that is what is causing friction at the moment.
    Yes, and the vials are of a particular medical grade glass, apparently imported from China, and perhaps unsurprisingly in very high demand around the world.
    It’s nonetheless something of a surprise that, around nine months after governments committed billions to a crash program of vaccine development, manufacturers haven’t in that time built large stockpiles.
    And that the government has abjectly failed to monitor and manage its supply line. As recently as three weeks ago, it was bragging about stockpiling 100m doses.
    I don't think it's as simple as that, the government has essentially asked AZ to build a vaccine manufacturing industry pretty much from zero in the UK as part of the 100m order. That doesn't happen overnight, that we've managed to do it in 8-10 months is a minor miracle. AZ say they will be supplying 2m doses per week to the government from next week, that's enough to be getting on with until the end of Feb because we also have 1-2m doses per week coming from Pfizer. What we'll need is a ramp up in March so that we don't slow new first jabs when it's time for second jabs to be given.
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    noneoftheabove - how is this for a solution?

    Fewer immigrants from the EU on minimum wage doing care work etc while getting paid housing allownace and universal credit by the government.

    More skilled immigrants from the rest of the world not claiming welfare and paying taxes instead.

    The money saved on not paying universal credit, and received in taxes, goes on funding a pay rise for care workers so they're not on minimum wage.

    No change in net immigration, no change in the Exchequer either, but we have more skills and our care staff are better paid.

    Win, win?

    Most EU migrants were not doing minimum wage jobs and getting benefits in the first place. Off memory thats about 6% of them, so that assumption is misleading. And not sure the only reason we need migration for care jobs is wages, although it is clearly part of it.

    But would I broadly be happy with what you suggest? Sure

    Do I think a large chunk of leave voters will feel betrayed by your solution? Yes and I expect that will become a big problem
    I would like to see some evidence that only 6% of EU migrants were receiving universal credit. I find that hard to believe.

    According to the ONS in September last year 1 million* working age EU nationality people were receiving working age benefits, most commonly Universal Credit. There are not 16 million EU migrants in the UK, so your claim is incorrect. There are 2.34 million EU migrants working in the UK**, so the benefits ratio is actually 43% not 6%

    If you're broadly happy and I'm broadly happy then that's good enough for me. If some extremists feel betrayed that's on them.

    * https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nationality-at-point-of-national-insurance-number-registration-of-dwp-working-age-benefit-recipients-data-to-november-2019/nationality-at-point-of-national-insurance-number-registration-of-dwp-working-age-benefit-recipients-data-to-november-2019
    ** https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/may2020
    No. You've mis-read that. The 1m is all non-UK.

    " EU nationals claiming WA benefits increased by 12% to 380,000"

    You're right. Thank you.

    So that takes the total to 16% then. One in six, still well over six percent.
    EU migrants includes all people, not just working age, which moves it to about 10%, much closer to my recalled 6% than your calculated 43%.
    We were talking about working age. Your sentence was "Most EU migrants were not doing minimum wage jobs and getting benefits in the first place" - your clear implication being that they were working and paying taxes; it only makes sense to calculate the working age benefit claimants as a fraction of working age people.

    There is no reason to deflate it by including children who are being paid by the state to by educated. I don't see how someone who is getting paid benefits is drawing less because they also have a child in a state school? If you want to include children in the denominator of how many migrants there are then it would only be right to include them in the nominator as to how many are getting benefits (free education is afterall a benefit and a cost).
    Really? You won, get over it.
    What are you talking about? Won what?
    Brexit
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    "We take back control of migration policy

    Done. The new policy may be arbitrary and counterproductive, but a full 10/10 is merited on this commitment."

    The only one that mattered, as it was the reason there was a referendum, and the reason Leave won.

    Does the scoring change if we dont reduce migration over the next decade or two? (which we wont!)

    Or did we just want the theoretical power to control it?

    I would have been happy with the theoretical power to control it and staying in the EU if that were possible, but if Leaving doesn't reduce immigration over the next decade or two I would think the score would change, because most people probably voted Leave to see the numbers come down
    I wonder how many realise 5.4m Hong Kongers have the right to UK citizenship now, that's about 50 years worth of EU migration.

    https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/commentaries/qa-the-new-route-to-citizenship-for-some-hong-kong-residents/
    Why does it matter?

    I think any Hong Kongers who come here are most likely to be a fantastic and welcome addition to the country.

    But the idea all 5.4 million will come here is preposterous. Until recently 446 million people had the free movement right to move to the UK, doesn't mean they all would either. So considering Hong Kongers and the fact the Irish have the right to do so too the numbers with the right to do so now are down by about 98%.
    It matters because millions of people think they have been promised something different by Brexit, and when migration doesnt reduce, and might even grow they will lose further trust in politics and be open for more radicalisation as we see in the US.

    It would be far better if our politicians were willing to be honest about migration, but they wont, and Brexit would not have happened if they had done so.

    Well, yes but the original sin, the dishonesty, was Tony Blair's, or his governments - They must have known allowing A8 accession would rip the manual labour and trades markets apart, but pretended barely any immigrants would bother coming to work here for 8 times their salary. Really that would have been the best time for a referendum, not on EU membership, but the scale of economic migration allowed from the former communist countries, whose economies were nothing like those of the previous EU countries. That is where it all started - before that, bendy bananas, cms or inches - no one cared except some lofty fringe of the Conservative Party, Nigel Farage and James Goldsmith
    They didn't know. They commissioned research which suggested few would come and transitional controls were unnecessary. That research turned out to be wrong but it wasn't a conspiracy. This is all fairly well known.
    Well if the people running the country didn’t anticipate that free movement of Labour between countries with differences in wages as huge as the UKs and Eastern Europe was going to result in a one way street causing huge anxiety for the British working class, they were more stupid than I believed possible. And they can’t have been, it must have been deliberate. Anyone working on a building site would have been able to tell them without the need to pay researchers. It’s called supply and demand.
    Building sites have always employed a lot of immigrants, though. It's not like EU enlargement created a new situation. There is actually very little evidence that immigration lowers wages, whatever popular opinion has to say on the matter. The industry I work in, finance, is heavily reliant on immigrants, especially from the EU, and isn't renowned for low pay.
    Yes building sites have, and when there are millions more immigrants available at lower rates of pay than previously imaginable, they employ even more! That’s why we left the EU
    I will need to dig out the data on wages in the construction sector in the morning, but I don't think there has been an appreciable impact. I would guess that things like trade union blacklisting had a bigger impact on pay and conditions in the sector, but it's not hard to see why the Tory party (bankrolled by big construction firms) might want to find someone else to blame.
    Don’t bother. Most of my friends work on building sites, and I trust what they say unprompted combined with my own common sense over macro data. In your opening response you outlined how wrong that can be
    Of course, it cuts both ways: if immigrants create greater need for housing, than they do increase in number of people working on building sites, then their presence might raise building wages. (I.e., imagine if house prices fell 25% over the next three years - there wouldn't be a lot being built, and that would be much worse for wages than the increase in supply of labourers.)
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2021
    kle4 said:

    Very surprised by the complacency on here regarding vaccination rates. The Independent is absolutely right to splash on the story. Keeping the focus on the programme, and the pressure on the government, is precisely what the press should be doing.

    Makes a worthy change from inane yarns about bike rides and blonde Derbyshire tea-drinkers.

    Its one days numbers. If it was still averaging 150k / day next Tuesday, then I think it is valid to say, what's going on, the programme isn't accelerating fast enough. If we hear they did 300k today (in tomorrow's numbers), I doubt the Indy will run a new piece saying, on target.

    Its the equivalent of the Mail hysterical lurching from 1000 deaths, its end of the world, to 500 deaths the next day, its all over, thank the lord, rather than looking at a weeks worth of data.
    It’s so far off where we need to be, it’s valid running a story on it. Where I do agree with you is that we need positive stories too - assuming the government can crank up rates to the required level.
    The daily rate isn't there, but the ramp over the past week has been significant. It needs to continue accelerating, but as I said down thread its a bit like chasing 150 in a T20 and saying game over because you only get 4 off the first over.
    Which may be true of some other places too of course, though they may well be a few more overs in than the first.
    I am certain the likes of Germany will get their arse in gear (and they have been rather naughty and got themselves some extra supply outside of the EU joint scheme) and soon be doing as many / if not more than the UK.

    I read somewhere that they already have capacity for 350k doses a day in place, but they have decided to try concentrate on the hard to reach oldies first (with Pfizer vaccine), which means much slower roll out.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,983
    P

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Hemingway claimed "Baby shoes for sale. Never worn' was his most complete story

    I think Yahoo Finance has just given him some competition. 'Brexit. All Pain No Gain'

    I can see why your career remained mired in advertising, rather than maturing into the more narrative-driven genre of actual movies
    Hemmingway on the other hand, did ok. :wink:
    France have opened their batting innings with a treble-wicket maiden.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    edited January 2021

    rcs1000 said:

    On the Johnson & Johnson jab, their CEO said yesterday at a conference that they were in the final stages of analysing the data and would be releasing results shortly. He also indicated they would be applying for Emergency Use authorisation.

    This sounds to me like (a) it will be reasonably good news and (b) it will be released this week or next.

    As a reminder, the UK ordered 30 million doses back in August, and was the first to confirm their order. So, that could be extremely good news.

    Unusually, the EU didn't fuck up with J&J and has 200 million doses ordered as of early September, with an option for another 200 million (presumably in case that a two dose regime in necessary).

    The US has a 100 million dose order, but only confirmed it in October.

    Now, that doesn't guarantee that doses will be delivered in the order they were received (indeed, you'd expect them to start shipping to all the major buyers as soon as approval is granted), but it does suggest the Western world may soon be in a much, much better place as far as vaccine supply goes.

    This one has even got the big man's name on it...twice.
    Maybe he'll be regretting his brand being just Boris in that case. Good for us he did, so people don't feel uneasy about putting a bit of Johnson inside them.
  • Options

    Very surprised by the complacency on here regarding vaccination rates. The Independent is absolutely right to splash on the story. Keeping the focus on the programme, and the pressure on the government, is precisely what the press should be doing.

    Makes a worthy change from inane yarns about bike rides and blonde Derbyshire tea-drinkers.

    Its one days numbers. If it was still averaging 150k / day next Tuesday, then I think it is valid to say, what's going on, the programme isn't accelerating fast enough. If we hear they did 300k today (in tomorrow's numbers), I doubt the Indy will run a new piece saying, on target.

    Its the equivalent of the Mail hysterical lurching from 1000 deaths, its end of the world, to 500 deaths the next day, its all over, thank the lord, rather than looking at a weeks worth of data.
    It’s so far off where we need to be, it’s valid running a story on it. Where I do agree with you is that we need positive stories too - assuming the government can crank up rates to the required level.
    The daily rate isn't there, but the ramp over the past week has been significant. It needs to continue accelerating, but as I said down thread its a bit like chasing 150 in a T20 and saying game over because you only get 4 off the first over.

    Lets see where we are come next Monday / Tuesday. If still stuck at 200k / day, then Houston we might have a problem.
    Coincidentally there's 6 weeks from when this was announced until the end of the target period, we are one week in.

    So to use another cricket analogy it is like requiring 12 off the over and a single was taken on the first ball. A couple of boundaries are needed but the batsman looks capable of hitting it over the rope a couple of times.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    rcs1000 said:

    On the Johnson & Johnson jab, their CEO said yesterday at a conference that they were in the final stages of analysing the data and would be releasing results shortly. He also indicated they would be applying for Emergency Use authorisation.

    This sounds to me like (a) it will be reasonably good news and (b) it will be released this week or next.

    As a reminder, the UK ordered 30 million doses back in August, and was the first to confirm their order. So, that could be extremely good news.

    Unusually, the EU didn't fuck up with J&J and has 200 million doses ordered as of early September, with an option for another 200 million (presumably in case that a two dose regime in necessary).

    The US has a 100 million dose order, but only confirmed it in October.

    Now, that doesn't guarantee that doses will be delivered in the order they were received (indeed, you'd expect them to start shipping to all the major buyers as soon as approval is granted), but it does suggest the Western world may soon be in a much, much better place as far as vaccine supply goes.

    This one has even got the big man's name on it...twice.
    And this is the single-dose one, so that order alone is enough for half the population.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    kle4 said:

    Very surprised by the complacency on here regarding vaccination rates. The Independent is absolutely right to splash on the story. Keeping the focus on the programme, and the pressure on the government, is precisely what the press should be doing.

    Makes a worthy change from inane yarns about bike rides and blonde Derbyshire tea-drinkers.

    Its one days numbers. If it was still averaging 150k / day next Tuesday, then I think it is valid to say, what's going on, the programme isn't accelerating fast enough. If we hear they did 300k today (in tomorrow's numbers), I doubt the Indy will run a new piece saying, on target.

    Its the equivalent of the Mail hysterical lurching from 1000 deaths, its end of the world, to 500 deaths the next day, its all over, thank the lord, rather than looking at a weeks worth of data.
    It’s so far off where we need to be, it’s valid running a story on it. Where I do agree with you is that we need positive stories too - assuming the government can crank up rates to the required level.
    The daily rate isn't there, but the ramp over the past week has been significant. It needs to continue accelerating, but as I said down thread its a bit like chasing 150 in a T20 and saying game over because you only get 4 off the first over.
    Which may be true of some other places too of course, though they may well be a few more overs in than the first.
    I am certain the likes of Germany will get their arse in gear (and they have been rather naughty and got themselves some extra supply outside of the EU joint scheme) and soon be doing as many / if not more than the UK.

    I read somewhere that they already have capacity for 350k doses a day in place, but they have decided to try concentrate on the hard to reach oldies first (with Pfizer vaccine), which means much slower roll out.
    As an aside, it is *not* true to say that EU countries cannot (and have not) bought vaccines independently of the EU. Both Belgium and France have ordered Valneva's vaccine (as has the UK I believe), while the EU's vaccine programme has not.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2021

    P

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Hemingway claimed "Baby shoes for sale. Never worn' was his most complete story

    I think Yahoo Finance has just given him some competition. 'Brexit. All Pain No Gain'

    I can see why your career remained mired in advertising, rather than maturing into the more narrative-driven genre of actual movies
    Hemmingway on the other hand, did ok. :wink:
    France have opened their batting innings with a treble-wicket maiden.
    And a couple of batsman have gone down with Delhi belly and won't be able to bat....and all the other batsman are wearing massive pads that stops them taking quick singles.

    The Dutch of course decided not to bother to even show up until the 3rd over.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    edited January 2021
    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    If true, Trump is going down.

    (Politics is a dirty business: Cotton and Cruz and Hawley know their chances are better if Trump is out the way. They also know that they can't be seen to have his blood on their hands.)
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,610
    edited January 2021
    kle4 said:

    First I'd heard of this. Could we be so lucky?

    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced a Cabinet reshuffle on Tuesday...

    Mr Trudeau could face an election this spring over a budget row, analysts say.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55636326

    Sure, we are getting an Israeli election, but they happen most years thesedays (or multiple times a year).

    There was a vote of confidence in the Canadian government a few months ago, but Trudeau won it by 180 to 146 after the NDP and Greens decided not to support it.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54635712
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    kle4 said:

    Very surprised by the complacency on here regarding vaccination rates. The Independent is absolutely right to splash on the story. Keeping the focus on the programme, and the pressure on the government, is precisely what the press should be doing.

    Makes a worthy change from inane yarns about bike rides and blonde Derbyshire tea-drinkers.

    Its one days numbers. If it was still averaging 150k / day next Tuesday, then I think it is valid to say, what's going on, the programme isn't accelerating fast enough. If we hear they did 300k today (in tomorrow's numbers), I doubt the Indy will run a new piece saying, on target.

    Its the equivalent of the Mail hysterical lurching from 1000 deaths, its end of the world, to 500 deaths the next day, its all over, thank the lord, rather than looking at a weeks worth of data.
    It’s so far off where we need to be, it’s valid running a story on it. Where I do agree with you is that we need positive stories too - assuming the government can crank up rates to the required level.
    The daily rate isn't there, but the ramp over the past week has been significant. It needs to continue accelerating, but as I said down thread its a bit like chasing 150 in a T20 and saying game over because you only get 4 off the first over.
    Which may be true of some other places too of course, though they may well be a few more overs in than the first.
    I am certain the likes of Germany will get their arse in gear (and they have been rather naughty and got themselves some extra supply outside of the EU joint scheme) and soon be doing as many / if not more than the UK.

    I read somewhere that they already have capacity for 350k doses a day in place, but they have decided to try concentrate on the hard to reach oldies first (with Pfizer vaccine), which means much slower roll out.
    That doesn't make any sense, if there is spare capacity then they would be using it for easier to reach priority groups like healthcare workers as we have been doing in our ramp up period. It's much more likely that they have a severe supply shortage as the Pfizer supply for Europe is being split between 27 countries and isn't very much bigger than what we get right now.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/01/12/gps-leading-way-covid-vaccine-rollout-forced-slow/

    Although frustrating, it does seem fair to ensure each region is given equitable access.

    It's a difficult balance - no easy answers.
    Come April / May, we should have more vaccine than we know what to do with. Be doing BOGOF in Tescos.
    I thought they were supposed to be targeting 2M a week?

    At the moment supply is the constraint. Come April, we will have 3 (and possibly 4) different vaccines. If we can't do 3 million a week then, well the government will have some questions to answer.
    Yes, but the first target the government is definitely committed to is in mid-Feb, so the 2m a week thing needs to kick in PDQ to do that. Not that it can't be done, but it's gonna need some serious ramp up.
    If the government really do manage to open 50 of these large sites working longer hours if required and that should be possible, provided the supply is there. There are 14 million doses made, but they aren't bottled, and that is what is causing friction at the moment.
    Yes, and the vials are of a particular medical grade glass, apparently imported from China, and perhaps unsurprisingly in very high demand around the world.
    It’s nonetheless something of a surprise that, around nine months after governments committed billions to a crash program of vaccine development, manufacturers haven’t in that time built large stockpiles.
    And that the government has abjectly failed to monitor and manage its supply line. As recently as three weeks ago, it was bragging about stockpiling 100m doses.
    I don't think it's as simple as that, the government has essentially asked AZ to build a vaccine manufacturing industry pretty much from zero in the UK as part of the 100m order. That doesn't happen overnight, that we've managed to do it in 8-10 months is a minor miracle. AZ say they will be supplying 2m doses per week to the government from next week, that's enough to be getting on with until the end of Feb because we also have 1-2m doses per week coming from Pfizer. What we'll need is a ramp up in March so that we don't slow new first jabs when it's time for second jabs to be given.
    It is good news and one is left wondering what will happen down the road with this new found manufacturing industry if annual booster shots of this are not required. For strategic reasons it would certainly be a good idea to keep the capability that has been built, but putting it to good use is another question.

    I'm sure people will find a way of doing so though.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377

    Very surprised by the complacency on here regarding vaccination rates. The Independent is absolutely right to splash on the story. Keeping the focus on the programme, and the pressure on the government, is precisely what the press should be doing.

    Makes a worthy change from inane yarns about bike rides and blonde Derbyshire tea-drinkers.

    Its one days numbers. If it was still averaging 150k / day next Tuesday, then I think it is valid to say, what's going on, the programme isn't accelerating fast enough. If we hear they did 300k today (in tomorrow's numbers), I doubt the Indy will run a new piece saying, on target.

    Its the equivalent of the Mail hysterical lurching from 1000 deaths, its end of the world, to 500 deaths the next day, its all over, thank the lord, rather than looking at a weeks worth of data.
    It’s so far off where we need to be, it’s valid running a story on it. Where I do agree with you is that we need positive stories too - assuming the government can crank up rates to the required level.
    The daily rate isn't there, but the ramp over the past week has been significant. It needs to continue accelerating, but as I said down thread its a bit like chasing 150 in a T20 and saying game over because you only get 4 off the first over.

    Lets see where we are come next Monday / Tuesday. If still stuck at 200k / day, then Houston we might have a problem.
    It's also worth bearing in mind that step changes in the rate are probably what will happen.

    - The previous 2 weeks - 300k+ each
    - Last week 1.2 million.

    So last week, the number of vaccinations carried out equaled (roughly) the number carried out since December 8th.

    Testing capacity has had 2 modes of increase - a steady trickle, punctuated by leaps and bounds. It also varies a bit from day to day. It wouldn't surprise me to see something similar with vaccination.

  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,983
    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    How many do they need?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2021
    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Very surprised by the complacency on here regarding vaccination rates. The Independent is absolutely right to splash on the story. Keeping the focus on the programme, and the pressure on the government, is precisely what the press should be doing.

    Makes a worthy change from inane yarns about bike rides and blonde Derbyshire tea-drinkers.

    Its one days numbers. If it was still averaging 150k / day next Tuesday, then I think it is valid to say, what's going on, the programme isn't accelerating fast enough. If we hear they did 300k today (in tomorrow's numbers), I doubt the Indy will run a new piece saying, on target.

    Its the equivalent of the Mail hysterical lurching from 1000 deaths, its end of the world, to 500 deaths the next day, its all over, thank the lord, rather than looking at a weeks worth of data.
    It’s so far off where we need to be, it’s valid running a story on it. Where I do agree with you is that we need positive stories too - assuming the government can crank up rates to the required level.
    The daily rate isn't there, but the ramp over the past week has been significant. It needs to continue accelerating, but as I said down thread its a bit like chasing 150 in a T20 and saying game over because you only get 4 off the first over.
    Which may be true of some other places too of course, though they may well be a few more overs in than the first.
    I am certain the likes of Germany will get their arse in gear (and they have been rather naughty and got themselves some extra supply outside of the EU joint scheme) and soon be doing as many / if not more than the UK.

    I read somewhere that they already have capacity for 350k doses a day in place, but they have decided to try concentrate on the hard to reach oldies first (with Pfizer vaccine), which means much slower roll out.
    That doesn't make any sense, if there is spare capacity then they would be using it for easier to reach priority groups like healthcare workers as we have been doing in our ramp up period. It's much more likely that they have a severe supply shortage as the Pfizer supply for Europe is being split between 27 countries and isn't very much bigger than what we get right now.
    Its is supply and other factors apparently...

    Scarce vaccine supply, cumbersome paperwork, a lack of healthcare staff and an aged and immobile population are hampering efforts to get early doses of a vaccine made by US-based Pfizer and German partner BioNTech into the arms of the people.

    Germany has set up hundreds of vaccination centres in sports halls and concert arenas and has the infrastructure to administer up to 300,000 shots a day, Health Minister Jens Spahn said.

    But the majority are standing empty, with most states not planning to open centres until mid-January as they prioritise sending mobile teams into care homes.

    A day spent with a vaccination team in the small town of Dillenburg, 100 km (60 miles) to the north of Germany's financial capital Frankfurt, shows just how painstaking the task is.

    The team starts out by loading a cool-box containing 84 doses of the Pfizer vaccine defrosted overnight into a waiting ambulance, and setting out for the Elisabeth residential care home.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/scarce-doses-and-empty-vaccination-centres-germany-s-vaccine-rollout-headache-101610280221135.html
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited January 2021

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    How many do they need?
    17 from 50 (R).

    50 (D) Senators plus 17 (R) = 67 which is 2/3rds with zero Skyr abstentions.

    Romney and Murkowski are 2/17 you can pretty much guarantee.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/01/12/gps-leading-way-covid-vaccine-rollout-forced-slow/

    Although frustrating, it does seem fair to ensure each region is given equitable access.

    It's a difficult balance - no easy answers.
    Come April / May, we should have more vaccine than we know what to do with. Be doing BOGOF in Tescos.
    I thought they were supposed to be targeting 2M a week?

    At the moment supply is the constraint. Come April, we will have 3 (and possibly 4) different vaccines. If we can't do 3 million a week then, well the government will have some questions to answer.
    Yes, but the first target the government is definitely committed to is in mid-Feb, so the 2m a week thing needs to kick in PDQ to do that. Not that it can't be done, but it's gonna need some serious ramp up.
    If the government really do manage to open 50 of these large sites working longer hours if required and that should be possible, provided the supply is there. There are 14 million doses made, but they aren't bottled, and that is what is causing friction at the moment.
    Yes, and the vials are of a particular medical grade glass, apparently imported from China, and perhaps unsurprisingly in very high demand around the world.
    It’s nonetheless something of a surprise that, around nine months after governments committed billions to a crash program of vaccine development, manufacturers haven’t in that time built large stockpiles.
    And that the government has abjectly failed to monitor and manage its supply line. As recently as three weeks ago, it was bragging about stockpiling 100m doses.
    I don't think it's as simple as that, the government has essentially asked AZ to build a vaccine manufacturing industry pretty much from zero in the UK as part of the 100m order. That doesn't happen overnight, that we've managed to do it in 8-10 months is a minor miracle. AZ say they will be supplying 2m doses per week to the government from next week, that's enough to be getting on with until the end of Feb because we also have 1-2m doses per week coming from Pfizer. What we'll need is a ramp up in March so that we don't slow new first jabs when it's time for second jabs to be given.
    It is good news and one is left wondering what will happen down the road with this new found manufacturing industry if annual booster shots of this are not required. For strategic reasons it would certainly be a good idea to keep the capability that has been built, but putting it to good use is another question.

    I'm sure people will find a way of doing so though.
    I think it will be interesting to see what the UK does with the capacity and if the government pushes the national security aspect for certain key industries now that we're out of the EU.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,983
    rcs1000 said:

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    If true, Trump is going down.

    (Politics is a dirty business: Cotton and Cruz and Hawley know their chances are better if Trump is out the way. They also know that they can't be seen to have his blood on their hands.)
    They could get stuck in traffic?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    edited January 2021

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    How many do they need?
    17.

    Hopefully Trump keeps talking - I feel like his mouthing off and whinging is the best way of getting those 'open' to it to solidify their positions when it gets to the Senate whenever that happens.

    In that respect, if not for the risks of physical violence, it would almost be worth letting him stay on Twitter a few more weeks.
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    rcs1000 said:

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    If true, Trump is going down.

    (Politics is a dirty business: Cotton and Cruz and Hawley know their chances are better if Trump is out the way. They also know that they can't be seen to have his blood on their hands.)
    That figure was reportedly before NYT went out with their story on McConnell, which I am convinced was approved by McConnell's own people to open the gate for anyone thinking of galloping through it. If the figure really is near 20, I have to admit it looks like an old fashioned organised putsch rather than a going with the tide moment. Just too many stories in the space of about 2 hours all to the same outlet.

  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,983

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    How many do they need?
    17 from 50 (R).

    50 (D) Senators plus 17 (R) = 67 which is 2/3rds with zero Skyr abstentions.

    Romney and Murkowski are 2/17 you can pretty much guarantee.
    Isn’t it on the old senatorial composition though? I.e the recent gains in GA won’t count?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744

    rcs1000 said:

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    If true, Trump is going down.

    (Politics is a dirty business: Cotton and Cruz and Hawley know their chances are better if Trump is out the way. They also know that they can't be seen to have his blood on their hands.)
    They could get stuck in traffic?
    Isn't a dentist's appointment traditional?
  • Options

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    How many do they need?
    17 from 50 (R).

    50 (D) Senators plus 17 (R) = 67 which is 2/3rds with zero Skyr abstentions.

    Romney and Murkowski are 2/17 you can pretty much guarantee.
    Isn’t it on the old senatorial composition though? I.e the recent gains in GA won’t count?
    No, why would it be?

    It will be the composition on the day the Senate votes. Which isn't going to be for weeks and weeks.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    How many do they need?
    17 from 50 (R).

    50 (D) Senators plus 17 (R) = 67 which is 2/3rds with zero Skyr abstentions.

    Romney and Murkowski are 2/17 you can pretty much guarantee.
    Isn’t it on the old senatorial composition though? I.e the recent gains in GA won’t count?
    No, why would it be?

    It will be the composition on the day the Senate votes. Which isn't going to be for weeks and weeks.
    Has the new Senate been put into session?
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    Trump odds of leaving office before the end of his term looked surprisingly attractive on Betfair as of 11.50pm.

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2021
    Lockdown++++++ incoming

    New curbs may be DAYS away: Estate agents could be closed, markets shut and meeting for exercise banned to stop surge in Covid-19 cases unless people start obeying the guidelines, Britons are warned

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9140263/New-curbs-days-away-insiders-say.html
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,983

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    How many do they need?
    17 from 50 (R).

    50 (D) Senators plus 17 (R) = 67 which is 2/3rds with zero Skyr abstentions.

    Romney and Murkowski are 2/17 you can pretty much guarantee.
    Isn’t it on the old senatorial composition though? I.e the recent gains in GA won’t count?
    No, why would it be?

    It will be the composition on the day the Senate votes. Which isn't going to be for weeks and weeks.
    Fair enough, wasn’t sure.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,236

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    How many do they need?
    17 from 50 (R).

    50 (D) Senators plus 17 (R) = 67 which is 2/3rds with zero Skyr abstentions.

    Romney and Murkowski are 2/17 you can pretty much guarantee.
    Isn’t it on the old senatorial composition though? I.e the recent gains in GA won’t count?
    No, why would it be?

    It will be the composition on the day the Senate votes. Which isn't going to be for weeks and weeks.
    If it starts to look like the floodgates have opened against Trump wouldn't they bring a vote forward and put Pence in charge for a few days?

    It would put my mind at rest if Trump was removed from the White House ahead of the rumoured events on the 17th.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,118

    P

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Hemingway claimed "Baby shoes for sale. Never worn' was his most complete story

    I think Yahoo Finance has just given him some competition. 'Brexit. All Pain No Gain'

    I can see why your career remained mired in advertising, rather than maturing into the more narrative-driven genre of actual movies
    Hemmingway on the other hand, did ok. :wink:
    France have opened their batting innings with a treble-wicket maiden.
    And a couple of batsman have gone down with Delhi belly and won't be able to bat....and all the other batsman are wearing massive pads that stops them taking quick singles.

    The Dutch of course decided not to bother to even show up until the 3rd over.
    It's a five-day test of course, not T20 so - oh, that's another wicket.....Sanofi hasn't troubled the scorers.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,377

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Very surprised by the complacency on here regarding vaccination rates. The Independent is absolutely right to splash on the story. Keeping the focus on the programme, and the pressure on the government, is precisely what the press should be doing.

    Makes a worthy change from inane yarns about bike rides and blonde Derbyshire tea-drinkers.

    Its one days numbers. If it was still averaging 150k / day next Tuesday, then I think it is valid to say, what's going on, the programme isn't accelerating fast enough. If we hear they did 300k today (in tomorrow's numbers), I doubt the Indy will run a new piece saying, on target.

    Its the equivalent of the Mail hysterical lurching from 1000 deaths, its end of the world, to 500 deaths the next day, its all over, thank the lord, rather than looking at a weeks worth of data.
    It’s so far off where we need to be, it’s valid running a story on it. Where I do agree with you is that we need positive stories too - assuming the government can crank up rates to the required level.
    The daily rate isn't there, but the ramp over the past week has been significant. It needs to continue accelerating, but as I said down thread its a bit like chasing 150 in a T20 and saying game over because you only get 4 off the first over.
    Which may be true of some other places too of course, though they may well be a few more overs in than the first.
    I am certain the likes of Germany will get their arse in gear (and they have been rather naughty and got themselves some extra supply outside of the EU joint scheme) and soon be doing as many / if not more than the UK.

    I read somewhere that they already have capacity for 350k doses a day in place, but they have decided to try concentrate on the hard to reach oldies first (with Pfizer vaccine), which means much slower roll out.
    That doesn't make any sense, if there is spare capacity then they would be using it for easier to reach priority groups like healthcare workers as we have been doing in our ramp up period. It's much more likely that they have a severe supply shortage as the Pfizer supply for Europe is being split between 27 countries and isn't very much bigger than what we get right now.
    Its is supply and other factors apparently...

    Scarce vaccine supply, cumbersome paperwork, a lack of healthcare staff and an aged and immobile population are hampering efforts to get early doses of a vaccine made by US-based Pfizer and German partner BioNTech into the arms of the people.

    Germany has set up hundreds of vaccination centres in sports halls and concert arenas and has the infrastructure to administer up to 300,000 shots a day, Health Minister Jens Spahn said.

    But the majority are standing empty, with most states not planning to open centres until mid-January as they prioritise sending mobile teams into care homes.

    A day spent with a vaccination team in the small town of Dillenburg, 100 km (60 miles) to the north of Germany's financial capital Frankfurt, shows just how painstaking the task is.

    The team starts out by loading a cool-box containing 84 doses of the Pfizer vaccine defrosted overnight into a waiting ambulance, and setting out for the Elisabeth residential care home.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/scarce-doses-and-empty-vaccination-centres-germany-s-vaccine-rollout-headache-101610280221135.html
    That still doesn't make sense - if they are methodology constrained (strange, but....) on the rate, why not use other vaccine supplies through the mass vaccination centres?

    Otherwise they would be stockpiling it - which given the situation in Germany with COVID, would be an.... interesting decision.

    They *must* be supply constrained.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2021
    Sir David Barclay, Telegraph co-owner (with his twin Frederick) has died.

    https://twitter.com/PeterHoskinsTV/status/1349123961083236354?s=20
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    edited January 2021

    Lockdown++++++ incoming

    New curbs may be DAYS away: Estate agents could be closed, markets shut and meeting for exercise banned to stop surge in Covid-19 cases unless people start obeying the guidelines, Britons are warned

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9140263/New-curbs-days-away-insiders-say.html

    The meeting for exercise thing was a farce so not surprising it still is. In spring it amazed me the number of very large families that suddenly decided to take walks together. By height of summer they mysteriously stopped. Must have been the weather....
  • Options
  • Options

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    How many do they need?
    17 from 50 (R).

    50 (D) Senators plus 17 (R) = 67 which is 2/3rds with zero Skyr abstentions.

    Romney and Murkowski are 2/17 you can pretty much guarantee.
    Isn’t it on the old senatorial composition though? I.e the recent gains in GA won’t count?
    No, why would it be?

    It will be the composition on the day the Senate votes. Which isn't going to be for weeks and weeks.
    If it starts to look like the floodgates have opened against Trump wouldn't they bring a vote forward and put Pence in charge for a few days?

    It would put my mind at rest if Trump was removed from the White House ahead of the rumoured events on the 17th.
    I doubt the Senate has the time or ability to hold the hearings in time and that would probably add fuel to the fire.

    Get through the inauguration then do it. Easier to stab a corpse when he's already down.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,589

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/01/12/gps-leading-way-covid-vaccine-rollout-forced-slow/

    Although frustrating, it does seem fair to ensure each region is given equitable access.

    It's a difficult balance - no easy answers.
    Come April / May, we should have more vaccine than we know what to do with. Be doing BOGOF in Tescos.
    I thought they were supposed to be targeting 2M a week?

    At the moment supply is the constraint. Come April, we will have 3 (and possibly 4) different vaccines. If we can't do 3 million a week then, well the government will have some questions to answer.
    Yes, but the first target the government is definitely committed to is in mid-Feb, so the 2m a week thing needs to kick in PDQ to do that. Not that it can't be done, but it's gonna need some serious ramp up.
    If the government really do manage to open 50 of these large sites working longer hours if required and that should be possible, provided the supply is there. There are 14 million doses made, but they aren't bottled, and that is what is causing friction at the moment.
    Yes, and the vials are of a particular medical grade glass, apparently imported from China, and perhaps unsurprisingly in very high demand around the world.
    It’s nonetheless something of a surprise that, around nine months after governments committed billions to a crash program of vaccine development, manufacturers haven’t in that time built large stockpiles.
    And that the government has abjectly failed to monitor and manage its supply line. As recently as three weeks ago, it was bragging about stockpiling 100m doses.
    That was slightly less of a surprise.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,589
    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    I didn’t think the conspiracy ran quite that deep.
  • Options
    MangoMango Posts: 1,013



    2019 was not great for me as I really couldn't bring myself to vote for Johnson - either the PM version or my local MP version who shares his name. I needed him to win to get the Brexit stuff finished but I just could not vote for someone who is so ill suited to high office. So for me 2019 was more a sigh of relief that at least Brexit would finally be achieved.

    I remain curious as to what you actually think will be better about the UK (or successor states) post-Brexit. I presume you will grudgingly admit it to be a big win for the likes of Putin and Xi, and a major setback for the cohesion of the liberal democratic West, and the principles of rules-based multinational institutions. And you personally hold no truck with the sentiments expressed by Isam (even though it was them wot won it). So what is the sunlit upside for you?

    As for happy election nights, I'm looking forward to having one. Don't expect I ever will.
  • Options

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    How many do they need?
    17 from 50 (R).

    50 (D) Senators plus 17 (R) = 67 which is 2/3rds with zero Skyr abstentions.

    Romney and Murkowski are 2/17 you can pretty much guarantee.
    Isn’t it on the old senatorial composition though? I.e the recent gains in GA won’t count?
    No, why would it be?

    It will be the composition on the day the Senate votes. Which isn't going to be for weeks and weeks.
    If it starts to look like the floodgates have opened against Trump wouldn't they bring a vote forward and put Pence in charge for a few days?

    It would put my mind at rest if Trump was removed from the White House ahead of the rumoured events on the 17th.
    I doubt the Senate has the time or ability to hold the hearings in time and that would probably add fuel to the fire.

    Get through the inauguration then do it. Easier to stab a corpse when he's already down.
    Fastest way to force Trump out would be for Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment. Easiest would be if Trump resigns in exchange for a pardon. Whether Congressional Republicans being more open to convicting Trump will persuade the Cabinet to support the 25th is another question.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,158

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Hemingway claimed "Baby shoes for sale. Never worn' was his most complete story

    I think Yahoo Finance has just given him some competition. 'Brexit. All Pain No Gain'

    I can see why your career remained mired in advertising, rather than maturing into the more narrative-driven genre of actual movies
    Hemmingway on the other hand, did ok. :wink:
    Talking of failed story-telling, the BBC's The Serpent is a sad waste of money. Great actors, great production values, great locations (Bangkok in the 1970s!) and, potentially, a great theme: a serial killer slaying hippies, based on a very true story.

    But jeez they fecked it up. Constant flashbacks, maze-like narration, shifting perspectives, and not in a clever way, just confusing. And terrible accents. Dutch, Thai, French Quebecois, Geordie-Russian.

    Another worrying sign that TV's Golden Age may be ending? Or just the BBC messing things up as normal? Bridgerton was better, FFS
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Hemingway claimed "Baby shoes for sale. Never worn' was his most complete story

    I think Yahoo Finance has just given him some competition. 'Brexit. All Pain No Gain'

    I can see why your career remained mired in advertising, rather than maturing into the more narrative-driven genre of actual movies
    Hemmingway on the other hand, did ok. :wink:
    Talking of failed story-telling, the BBC's The Serpent is a sad waste of money. Great actors, great production values, great locations (Bangkok in the 1970s!) and, potentially, a great theme: a serial killer slaying hippies, based on a very true story.

    But jeez they fecked it up. Constant flashbacks, maze-like narration, shifting perspectives, and not in a clever way, just confusing. And terrible accents. Dutch, Thai, French Quebecois, Geordie-Russian.

    Another worrying sign that TV's Golden Age may be ending? Or just the BBC messing things up as normal? Bridgerton was better, FFS
    I can't remember if it was the Guardian or the Indy that did a piece on best telly to look forward to in 2021....the list looked decidedly shit.
  • Options
    Mango said:



    2019 was not great for me as I really couldn't bring myself to vote for Johnson - either the PM version or my local MP version who shares his name. I needed him to win to get the Brexit stuff finished but I just could not vote for someone who is so ill suited to high office. So for me 2019 was more a sigh of relief that at least Brexit would finally be achieved.

    I remain curious as to what you actually think will be better about the UK (or successor states) post-Brexit. I presume you will grudgingly admit it to be a big win for the likes of Putin and Xi, and a major setback for the cohesion of the liberal democratic West, and the principles of rules-based multinational institutions. And you personally hold no truck with the sentiments expressed by Isam (even though it was them wot won it). So what is the sunlit upside for you?

    As for happy election nights, I'm looking forward to having one. Don't expect I ever will.
    I know you addressed Richard but I will say no, not at all.

    The best elements of the liberal democratic West is our liberal democracy. It is not sclerotic, moribund institutions that struggle to adapt to a changing world and aren't democratically accountable.

    The UK voting to take back control of Parliament setting our laws isn't a blow against liberal democracy, it is a strike in favour of it.

    The west is not strongest when we huddle together and shield ourselves away from the voters - how are we any better than the east if we do that? The west is strongest when our governments and law makers stand up and are held accountable by our voters. We can work together where it is appropriate to do so, but the governments answering to our electorate is the most important element of all. It is what underpins liberal democracy.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,589
    rcs1000 said:

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    If true, Trump is going down.

    (Politics is a dirty business: Cotton and Cruz and Hawley know their chances are better if Trump is out the way. They also know that they can't be seen to have his blood on their hands.)
    It’s a happy coincidence that cynical political calculation aligns with the interests of maintaining US democracy.

    If there is a Senate trial and vote after the 20th, it will set a constitutional precedent, though.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    How many do they need?
    17 from 50 (R).

    50 (D) Senators plus 17 (R) = 67 which is 2/3rds with zero Skyr abstentions.

    Romney and Murkowski are 2/17 you can pretty much guarantee.
    Toomey, Collins and Sasse are probables.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,158

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Hemingway claimed "Baby shoes for sale. Never worn' was his most complete story

    I think Yahoo Finance has just given him some competition. 'Brexit. All Pain No Gain'

    I can see why your career remained mired in advertising, rather than maturing into the more narrative-driven genre of actual movies
    Hemmingway on the other hand, did ok. :wink:
    Talking of failed story-telling, the BBC's The Serpent is a sad waste of money. Great actors, great production values, great locations (Bangkok in the 1970s!) and, potentially, a great theme: a serial killer slaying hippies, based on a very true story.

    But jeez they fecked it up. Constant flashbacks, maze-like narration, shifting perspectives, and not in a clever way, just confusing. And terrible accents. Dutch, Thai, French Quebecois, Geordie-Russian.

    Another worrying sign that TV's Golden Age may be ending? Or just the BBC messing things up as normal? Bridgerton was better, FFS
    I can't remember if it was the Guardian or the Indy that did a piece on best telly to look forward to in 2021....the list looked decidedly shit.
    To be fair, it is bloody hard to make good TV (or movies, music, drama, opera, dance) in the era of Covid. I fear we are doomed to a few years of mediocrity, whatever.

    Sad.

    On the upside, flint knappers, poets, knitters and novelists will prosper. The creations of the more lonely artist.
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    That's the reportedly secure Telegram app that certain Western intelligence agencies managed to crack a few years ago as part of a drive against Islamic extremists who used it as their messaging app of choice.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,589

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    How many do they need?
    17 from 50 (R).

    50 (D) Senators plus 17 (R) = 67 which is 2/3rds with zero Skyr abstentions.

    Romney and Murkowski are 2/17 you can pretty much guarantee.
    Isn’t it on the old senatorial composition though? I.e the recent gains in GA won’t count?
    No, why would it be?

    It will be the composition on the day the Senate votes. Which isn't going to be for weeks and weeks.
    If it starts to look like the floodgates have opened against Trump wouldn't they bring a vote forward and put Pence in charge for a few days?

    It would put my mind at rest if Trump was removed from the White House ahead of the rumoured events on the 17th.
    I doubt the Senate has the time or ability to hold the hearings in time and that would probably add fuel to the fire.

    Get through the inauguration then do it. Easier to stab a corpse when he's already down.
    Fastest way to force Trump out would be for Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment. Easiest would be if Trump resigns in exchange for a pardon. Whether Congressional Republicans being more open to convicting Trump will persuade the Cabinet to support the 25th is another question.
    It doesn’t sound as though Pence will. though.

    And impeachment would be the constitutional remedy to a constitutional outrage. Trump is no more incapable than he ever was to hold the office - and the 35th is about incapacity, not unfitness for office.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Yokes said:

    That's the reportedly secure Telegram app that certain Western intelligence agencies managed to crack a few years ago as part of a drive against Islamic extremists who used it as their messaging app of choice.
    That's the same reportedly secure Telegram app that is owned by a secretive cabal of Russians, yes.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060


    That is the power of democracy.

    Why are we behind the UAE and Bahrain?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,589

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    How many do they need?
    17 from 50 (R).

    50 (D) Senators plus 17 (R) = 67 which is 2/3rds with zero Skyr abstentions.

    Romney and Murkowski are 2/17 you can pretty much guarantee.
    Isn’t it on the old senatorial composition though? I.e the recent gains in GA won’t count?
    No, why would it be?

    It will be the composition on the day the Senate votes. Which isn't going to be for weeks and weeks.
    If it starts to look like the floodgates have opened against Trump wouldn't they bring a vote forward and put Pence in charge for a few days?

    It would put my mind at rest if Trump was removed from the White House ahead of the rumoured events on the 17th.
    Impeachment involves a trial, and Trump would get to present a defence. It’s hard to see how it could possibly be completed so quickly.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,589


    That is the power of democracy.

    Why are we behind the UAE and Bahrain?
    That’s the power of money.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited January 2021


    That is the power of democracy.

    Why are we behind the UAE and Bahrain?
    They bought a Chinese vaccine (after being a trial country) and approved it very quickly.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited January 2021


    That is the power of democracy.

    Why are we behind the UAE and Bahrain?
    Probably because they're oil rich microstates.

    Probably isn't difficult for them to bung Pfizer some extra cash for extra stock that makes a negligible dent on totals that Pfizer have available. Similar logic to how we have done the same, but we're much bigger so it takes more to move our totals.

    Again showing the power of small. Again showing that quick and agile David can be better than slow and lumbering Goliath.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    edited January 2021


    That is the power of democracy.

    Why are we behind the UAE and Bahrain?
    They are tiny countries. Shouldn't you be asking why the major EU countries are so far behind the UK?
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Mike Pence - he says no
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,589
    Further detail on the Sinovac results from Brazil; it seem that it might, like the AZN vaccine, effectively prevent severe disease despite being less effective at preventing it completely.
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/01/third-time-s-charm-brazil-scales-back-efficacy-claims-covid-19-vaccine-china
    ... In the third in a series of conflicting announcements about a Chinese-made COVID-19 vaccine candidate, Brazilian researchers reported today that the results of their efficacy trial were less impressive than they claimed last week. When analyzed by stricter criteria than used earlier, the vaccine’s efficacy against all forms of COVID-19, including mild cases, dropped from about 78% to 50%.

    The vaccine still appeared to give nearly 100% protection against disease severe enough to require hospitalization, although the trial amassed too few of those cases for that result to reach statistical significance...
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,610
    Is it now the go to site for former Parler users?
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    RobD said:


    That is the power of democracy.

    Why are we behind the UAE and Bahrain?
    They are tiny countries. Shouldn't you be asking why the major EU countries are so far behind the UK?
    As if he would do that
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,589
    Nigelb said:


    That is the power of democracy.

    Why are we behind the UAE and Bahrain?
    That’s the power of money.
    And this the power of idiocy.
    https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1349128058524094465
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    rcs1000 said:

    Incidentally Mango here is a European political scientist, author and former politician who is saying the same thing with regards to vaccines. That the UK is doing better because of the constant pressure on the government to perform is probably correct.

    https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1349100962997272576
    https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1349103017971298311

    That is what democracy does. It holds our government's to account.

    That is what Brexit does. It holds removes the canard of "Europe makes us do it that way" and ensures there is no hiding space for failure.

    If the UK was in the EU's procurement scheme who would have been held to account for its failings? If the UK fails, who is held to account?

    That is the power of democracy.

    This is spot on. The further away a government is from its people, the harder it is to respond to them. And if you add in a layer of "indirect", it becomes harder yet.

    The EU is not evil or malevolent; but those at the top of it lack direct accountability. If the EU is to survive and thrive, it needs to change that.

    (Of course, the smaller a country is, the closer its rulers are to its people. I would expect, by and large, rich small countries to do best of all.)
    (All that being said... I would avoid 'counting chickens' too early. The EU has bought lots of J&J's single dose vaccine, and this is a marathon, not a sprint...)
  • Options
    MangoMango Posts: 1,013
    edited January 2021
    rcs1000 said:



    That is what democracy does. It holds our government's to account.

    That is what Brexit does. It holds removes the canard of "Europe makes us do it that way" and ensures there is no hiding space for failure.

    If the UK was in the EU's procurement scheme who would have been held to account for its failings? If the UK fails, who is held to account?

    That is the power of democracy.

    This is spot on. The further away a government is from its people, the harder it is to respond to them. And if you add in a layer of "indirect", it becomes harder yet.

    The EU is not evil or malevolent; but those at the top of it lack direct accountability. If the EU is to survive and thrive, it needs to change that.

    (Of course, the smaller a country is, the closer its rulers are to its people. I would expect, by and large, rich small countries to do best of all.)
    This might be meaningful if the UK was not one of the least politically accountable, most centralised states in the world. No local government worth the name (certainly no local democracy) , no regional government (for non-Celts), no representation for vast swathes of voters, no say in the upper house, etc.

    When was the last bit of actual political accountability? Tories (and Labour) are always failing upwards, cabinet resignations/sackings last for about three months on average, and if the electorate ever do get round to ejecting one of the buggers, they're back in the Lords before you can say "permanent ruling class".

    I've had more representation in the European parliament than I've ever had in the UK.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,610
    Mango said:

    rcs1000 said:



    That is what democracy does. It holds our government's to account.

    That is what Brexit does. It holds removes the canard of "Europe makes us do it that way" and ensures there is no hiding space for failure.

    If the UK was in the EU's procurement scheme who would have been held to account for its failings? If the UK fails, who is held to account?

    That is the power of democracy.

    This is spot on. The further away a government is from its people, the harder it is to respond to them. And if you add in a layer of "indirect", it becomes harder yet.

    The EU is not evil or malevolent; but those at the top of it lack direct accountability. If the EU is to survive and thrive, it needs to change that.

    (Of course, the smaller a country is, the closer its rulers are to its people. I would expect, by and large, rich small countries to do best of all.)
    This might be meaningful if the UK was not one of the least politically accountable, most centralised states in the world. No local government worth the name (certainly no local democracy) , no regional government (for non-Celts), no representation for vast swathes of voters, no say in the upper house, etc.

    When was the last bit of actual political accountability? Tories (and Labour) are always failing upwards, cabinet resignations/sackings last for about three months on average, and if the electorate ever do get round to ejecting one of the buggers, they're back in the Lords before you can say "permanent ruling class".

    I've had more representation in the European parliament than I've ever had in the UK.
    Do most English people want regional government in addition to what already exists? I doubt it.
  • Options

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    How many do they need?
    17 from 50 (R).

    50 (D) Senators plus 17 (R) = 67 which is 2/3rds with zero Skyr abstentions.

    Romney and Murkowski are 2/17 you can pretty much guarantee.
    Isn’t it on the old senatorial composition though? I.e the recent gains in GA won’t count?
    No, why would it be?

    It will be the composition on the day the Senate votes. Which isn't going to be for weeks and weeks.
    If it starts to look like the floodgates have opened against Trump wouldn't they bring a vote forward and put Pence in charge for a few days?

    It would put my mind at rest if Trump was removed from the White House ahead of the rumoured events on the 17th.
    I doubt the Senate has the time or ability to hold the hearings in time and that would probably add fuel to the fire.

    Get through the inauguration then do it. Easier to stab a corpse when he's already down.
    Fastest way to force Trump out would be for Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment. Easiest would be if Trump resigns in exchange for a pardon. Whether Congressional Republicans being more open to convicting Trump will persuade the Cabinet to support the 25th is another question.
    NO! NO PARDON FOR TRUMPSKY! NEVER.

    He will be out regardless next week. He's virtually out right now, certainly the US military AND the rest of the federal government will take any orders with BIG grains of salt.

    Which is terrible, when upholding the Constitution means ignoring treasonous potential orders by POTUS.

    But THAT state of affairs is the fault of Trumpsky and his equally foul entourage, most especially Cruz, Hawley and the rest.
  • Options
    Let me repeat that - NO PARDON EVER FOR TRUMPSKY. NEVER.

    And note this IF the United Kingdom grants him entry after he is no longer POTUS, as a private citizen on the lam so to speak, well, think that would NOT be in the best interest of the Special Relationship. Not hardly.

    Let the SOB seek asylum in his spiritual home - Vladimir Putin's Russia.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    Let me repeat that - NO PARDON EVER FOR TRUMPSKY. NEVER.

    And note this IF the United Kingdom grants him entry after he is no longer POTUS, as a private citizen on the lam so to speak, well, think that would NOT be in the best interest of the Special Relationship. Not hardly.

    Let the SOB seek asylum in his spiritual home - Vladimir Putin's Russia.

    Meh, it's unlikely to cause an international incident between the two countries. Unless he's wanted by the authorities.
  • Options
    Politico.com - AS MANY AS 12 GOP VOTES TO IMPEACH
    By Renuka Rayasam 01/12/2021 08:01 PM EST

    [That's Republican vote in the House, at this hour. The number of Republican senators I don't know, but like the House list it is no doubt growing by the hour.]

    ‘NEVER BEEN A GREATER BETRAYAL’ — Rep. Liz Cheney, the No. 3 House Republican, will vote to impeach President Donald Trump. “There has never been a greater betrayal by a president of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution,” Cheney said in a statement.

    Vice President Mike Pence informed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi tonight that he won’t invoke the 25th Amendment. The House will move to impeach Trump on Wednesday. As many as a dozen Republicans are expected to support the impeachment effort, according to lawmakers and aides of both parties, Sarah Ferris, Heather Caygle and Kyle Cheney write.

    [Which would appear to put end to invocation of 25th.]
  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    RobD said:

    Let me repeat that - NO PARDON EVER FOR TRUMPSKY. NEVER.

    And note this IF the United Kingdom grants him entry after he is no longer POTUS, as a private citizen on the lam so to speak, well, think that would NOT be in the best interest of the Special Relationship. Not hardly.

    Let the SOB seek asylum in his spiritual home - Vladimir Putin's Russia.

    Meh, it's unlikely to cause an international incident between the two countries. Unless he's wanted by the authorities.
    can we swap him for Prince Andrew...I believe US authorities want to speak with him about (ahem) indiscretions....
  • Options
    RobD said:

    Let me repeat that - NO PARDON EVER FOR TRUMPSKY. NEVER.

    And note this IF the United Kingdom grants him entry after he is no longer POTUS, as a private citizen on the lam so to speak, well, think that would NOT be in the best interest of the Special Relationship. Not hardly.

    Let the SOB seek asylum in his spiritual home - Vladimir Putin's Russia.

    Meh, it's unlikely to cause an international incident between the two countries. Unless he's wanted by the authorities.
    Ain't taking about "international incident".

    And he most definitely will be wanted by authorities, certainly to get his testimony under oath on a MULTITUDE of topics, ranging from littering to treason. Which is why so many crooked lawyers such as Rudy G have, are and will glom onto to the Traitor-in-Chief.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    If true, Trump is going down.

    (Politics is a dirty business: Cotton and Cruz and Hawley know their chances are better if Trump is out the way. They also know that they can't be seen to have his blood on their hands.)
    It’s a happy coincidence that cynical political calculation aligns with the interests of maintaining US democracy.

    If there is a Senate trial and vote after the 20th, it will set a constitutional precedent, though.
    I believe it will only set a precedent if there is a guilty verdict. Don't have the reference, but the Senate has held an impeachment trial (not of a president) of an elected federal official after that official left office.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55634388

    A Huawei patent has been brought to light for a system that identifies people who appear to be of Uighur origin among images of pedestrians.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    The problem with that line, is that invites the response.

    "Well, Mr President, you leave me no choice. I wish to be remembered as a patriot and that means supporting your impeachment."
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55634388

    A Huawei patent has been brought to light for a system that identifies people who appear to be of Uighur origin among images of pedestrians.

    Let no one say that Huawei doesn't innovate.
  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    rcs1000 said:

    The problem with that line, is that invites the response.

    "Well, Mr President, you leave me no choice. I wish to be remembered as a patriot and that means supporting your impeachment."
    Wonder if this snippet raises or lowers his standing for the 2024 election?....
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,118
    rcs1000 said:

    The problem with that line, is that invites the response.

    "Well, Mr President, you leave me no choice. I wish to be remembered as a patriot and that means supporting your impeachment."
    "Mr President, this is one pussy you ain't grabbing...."
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,118
    Nigelb said:

    Yokes said:

    NYT now reckons upto 20 GOP Senators open to conviction.

    How many do they need?
    17 from 50 (R).

    50 (D) Senators plus 17 (R) = 67 which is 2/3rds with zero Skyr abstentions.

    Romney and Murkowski are 2/17 you can pretty much guarantee.
    Isn’t it on the old senatorial composition though? I.e the recent gains in GA won’t count?
    No, why would it be?

    It will be the composition on the day the Senate votes. Which isn't going to be for weeks and weeks.
    If it starts to look like the floodgates have opened against Trump wouldn't they bring a vote forward and put Pence in charge for a few days?

    It would put my mind at rest if Trump was removed from the White House ahead of the rumoured events on the 17th.
    Impeachment involves a trial, and Trump would get to present a defence. It’s hard to see how it could possibly be completed so quickly.
    Not hard to imagine him refusing to participate at all in the process.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55634388

    A Huawei patent has been brought to light for a system that identifies people who appear to be of Uighur origin among images of pedestrians.

    Yet some people still wonder why we banned them from major telecoms infrastructure in Western countries.
  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    Sandpit said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55634388

    A Huawei patent has been brought to light for a system that identifies people who appear to be of Uighur origin among images of pedestrians.

    Yet some people still wonder why we banned them from major telecoms infrastructure in Western countries.
    I would bet that many countries (such as the US) have already such technology in use at airports etc...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    edited January 2021

    Sandpit said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55634388

    A Huawei patent has been brought to light for a system that identifies people who appear to be of Uighur origin among images of pedestrians.

    Yet some people still wonder why we banned them from major telecoms infrastructure in Western countries.
    I would bet that many countries (such as the US) have already such technology in use at airports etc...
    One of the problems seen with facial recognition testing in the USA, is that it’s racist noticeably worse at identifying people with darker skin tones.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,251
    rcs1000 said:

    Incidentally Mango here is a European political scientist, author and former politician who is saying the same thing with regards to vaccines. That the UK is doing better because of the constant pressure on the government to perform is probably correct.

    https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1349100962997272576
    https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1349103017971298311

    That is what democracy does. It holds our government's to account.

    That is what Brexit does. It holds removes the canard of "Europe makes us do it that way" and ensures there is no hiding space for failure.

    If the UK was in the EU's procurement scheme who would have been held to account for its failings? If the UK fails, who is held to account?

    That is the power of democracy.

    This is spot on. The further away a government is from its people, the harder it is to respond to them. And if you add in a layer of "indirect", it becomes harder yet.

    The EU is not evil or malevolent; but those at the top of it lack direct accountability. If the EU is to survive and thrive, it needs to change that.

    (Of course, the smaller a country is, the closer its rulers are to its people. I would expect, by and large, rich small countries to do best of all.)
    Maybe, but the suggestion above that nobody is criticising the vaccine rollout because they don't want to appear anti European is total nonsense.

    Also, PT seems to be simultaneously arguing that in the EU everyone is both blaming the EU for "making us do it that way" and that nobody criticises the EU for fear of appearing anti European.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Alastair you are so embittered about Brexit. As a remainer I've had the good grace to drop it and move on. You should too.

    It's done. Finished. Over. We left the EU and for good or ill we have to get on with it.

    There are other more important things for us now to focus on.

  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435

    Alastair you are so embittered about Brexit. As a remainer I've had the good grace to drop it and move on. You should too.

    It's done. Finished. Over. We left the EU and for good or ill we have to get on with it.

    There are other more important things for us now to focus on.

    what like our relationship with the EU......?
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561

    RobD said:

    Let me repeat that - NO PARDON EVER FOR TRUMPSKY. NEVER.

    And note this IF the United Kingdom grants him entry after he is no longer POTUS, as a private citizen on the lam so to speak, well, think that would NOT be in the best interest of the Special Relationship. Not hardly.

    Let the SOB seek asylum in his spiritual home - Vladimir Putin's Russia.

    Meh, it's unlikely to cause an international incident between the two countries. Unless he's wanted by the authorities.
    Ain't taking about "international incident".

    And he most definitely will be wanted by authorities, certainly to get his testimony under oath on a MULTITUDE of topics, ranging from littering to treason. Which is why so many crooked lawyers such as Rudy G have, are and will glom onto to the Traitor-in-Chief.
    What's George Washington got to do with anything?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,280

    noneoftheabove - how is this for a solution?

    Fewer immigrants from the EU on minimum wage doing care work etc while getting paid housing allownace and universal credit by the government.

    More skilled immigrants from the rest of the world not claiming welfare and paying taxes instead.

    The money saved on not paying universal credit, and received in taxes, goes on funding a pay rise for care workers so they're not on minimum wage.

    No change in net immigration, no change in the Exchequer either, but we have more skills and our care staff are better paid.

    Win, win?

    Most EU migrants were not doing minimum wage jobs and getting benefits in the first place. Off memory thats about 6% of them, so that assumption is misleading. And not sure the only reason we need migration for care jobs is wages, although it is clearly part of it.

    But would I broadly be happy with what you suggest? Sure

    Do I think a large chunk of leave voters will feel betrayed by your solution? Yes and I expect that will become a big problem
    I would like to see some evidence that only 6% of EU migrants were receiving universal credit. I find that hard to believe.

    According to the ONS in September last year 1 million* working age EU nationality people were receiving working age benefits, most commonly Universal Credit. There are not 16 million EU migrants in the UK, so your claim is incorrect. There are 2.34 million EU migrants working in the UK**, so the benefits ratio is actually 43% not 6%

    If you're broadly happy and I'm broadly happy then that's good enough for me. If some extremists feel betrayed that's on them.

    * https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nationality-at-point-of-national-insurance-number-registration-of-dwp-working-age-benefit-recipients-data-to-november-2019/nationality-at-point-of-national-insurance-number-registration-of-dwp-working-age-benefit-recipients-data-to-november-2019
    ** https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/may2020
    No. You've mis-read that. The 1m is all non-UK.

    " EU nationals claiming WA benefits increased by 12% to 380,000"

    You're right. Thank you.

    So that takes the total to 16% then. One in six, still well over six percent.
    EU migrants includes all people, not just working age, which moves it to about 10%, much closer to my recalled 6% than your calculated 43%.
    We were talking about working age. Your sentence was "Most EU migrants were not doing minimum wage jobs and getting benefits in the first place" - your clear implication being that they were working and paying taxes; it only makes sense to calculate the working age benefit claimants as a fraction of working age people.

    There is no reason to deflate it by including children who are being paid by the state to by educated. I don't see how someone who is getting paid benefits is drawing less because they also have a child in a state school? If you want to include children in the denominator of how many migrants there are then it would only be right to include them in the nominator as to how many are getting benefits (free education is afterall a benefit and a cost).
    Really? You won, get over it.
    What are you talking about? Won what?
    Brexit
    A booby prize, if ever I saw one.
  • Options
    My prediction is that Bavarian CSU leader Söder succeeds Merkel. Something to bear in mind.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,944

    Alastair you are so embittered about Brexit. As a remainer I've had the good grace to drop it and move on. You should too.

    It's done. Finished. Over. We left the EU and for good or ill we have to get on with it.

    There are other more important things for us now to focus on.

    Brexiteers bitched about being members for 47 years.

    Buckle up
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,280
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    Hemingway claimed "Baby shoes for sale. Never worn' was his most complete story

    I think Yahoo Finance has just given him some competition. 'Brexit. All Pain No Gain'

    I can see why your career remained mired in advertising, rather than maturing into the more narrative-driven genre of actual movies
    Hemmingway on the other hand, did ok. :wink:
    Talking of failed story-telling, the BBC's The Serpent is a sad waste of money. Great actors, great production values, great locations (Bangkok in the 1970s!) and, potentially, a great theme: a serial killer slaying hippies, based on a very true story.

    But jeez they fecked it up. Constant flashbacks, maze-like narration, shifting perspectives, and not in a clever way, just confusing. And terrible accents. Dutch, Thai, French Quebecois, Geordie-Russian.

    Another worrying sign that TV's Golden Age may be ending? Or just the BBC messing things up as normal? Bridgerton was better, FFS
    I can't remember if it was the Guardian or the Indy that did a piece on best telly to look forward to in 2021....the list looked decidedly shit.
    To be fair, it is bloody hard to make good TV (or movies, music, drama, opera, dance) in the era of Covid. I fear we are doomed to a few years of mediocrity, whatever.

    Sad.

    On the upside, flint knappers, poets, knitters and novelists will prosper. The creations of the more lonely artist.
    Artists are supposed to be lonely
This discussion has been closed.