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Some extraordinary “storming the Capitol” polling from YouGov US – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited January 7 in General
imageSome extraordinary “storming the Capitol” polling from YouGov US – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 8,690
    edited January 7
    Lock him up!

    And first!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845
    Second rate - like Trump
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 35,715

    Lock him up!

    And first!

    Stolen!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 4,893
    The question is a little weak given the gravity of the situation. YouGov were looking for a headline here. (Not hugely though, and the result is nuts)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845
    edited January 7

    Lock him up!

    And first!

    Stolen!
    Mexican Pete's first has now been ratified by both houses of Congress.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 34,494
    The polling misses the key question, given they are busy posting photos and confessions on social media - ‘completely stupid.’
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 60,514
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Whoa. Did Boris Johnson actually just condemn Donald Trump for subverting democracy?

    He did. Shocked he was so candid, but it was needed.
    I think he broke my jaw. There was a sharp pain as it hit the floor.

    You’re right he needed to, but I never thought he’d do it.
    Trump is a nobody now. A dangerous nobody, but a nobody. I think he knows perfectly well how people only respected him because he was the President, but will still be shocked when people start condemning him. People who disliked him still having to kiss his arse seems like the primary perk of the job for a man like him.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 28,903
    edited January 7
    First like Trump, and don’t let the four seven fake comments above let anyone think I wasn’t first!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 60,514
    Protestors, at that and other events, who riot, are no longer protestors.

    Even with the partisan divide I'm amazed 'anti-democratic' is so low for republicans. Even if you think they were right they shut down the democratic chambers!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 60,514

    Lock him up!

    And first!

    Stolen!
    Mexican Pete's first has now been ratified by both houses of Congress.
    Fixed!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 34,494
    Sandpit said:

    First like Trump, and don’t let the four seven fake comments above let anyone think I wasn’t first!

    There are actually only two. The other five are figments of your imagination. What you need is to ring up OGH and rant, scream and swear at him until he takes them down.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 26,009
    kle4 said:

    Protestors, at that and other events, who riot, are no longer protestors.

    Even with the partisan divide I'm amazed 'anti-democratic' is so low for republicans. Even if you think they were right they shut down the democratic chambers!

    I haven't seen enough of the footage. They looked like a bunch of protestors to me from what little I saw. Shocking riot control drills from the SF there. When the guy with the stars & stripes broke (walked?) through the cordon he just stood there waving his big-ass flag.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 15,846
    "1,26m doses since the programme began 30 days ago" - Brigadier Prosser

    Seems strange given we are at least at 1.7m Even if he were referring to Sundays figures they were 500k higher

    Anyone know why??
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 36,845
    Can't believe there are still Trump supporters close by the Congress, as Jon Sopel gets heckled trying to give his report with it as a backdrop. Thought they would have been scoured from the streets by now.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 10,115

    "1,26m doses since the programme began 30 days ago" - Brigadier Prosser

    Seems strange given we are at least at 1.7m Even if he were referring to Sundays figures they were 500k higher

    Anyone know why??

    At a guess - the Army was not responsible for the logistics of delivering *all* the vaccinations.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 60,514
    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    Protestors, at that and other events, who riot, are no longer protestors.

    Even with the partisan divide I'm amazed 'anti-democratic' is so low for republicans. Even if you think they were right they shut down the democratic chambers!

    I haven't seen enough of the footage. They looked like a bunch of protestors to me from what little I saw. Shocking riot control drills from the SF there. When the guy with the stars & stripes broke (walked?) through the cordon he just stood there waving his big-ass flag.
    They participated in the storming of a government building with the intent of putting a stop to a legal process, successfully, causing property damage and with the imminent threat of violence from their actions.

    That's crossed the line from a protest. They could sing kumbaya in footage and it wouldn't change that. Nor does that they could have done even worse.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 81,377
    edited January 7
    This polling shows Trumpism has got hold of the GOP for at least a decade, Republican voters narrowly support the actions last night and overwhelmingly think Trump should not be impeached in total contrast to the rest of the US electorate.

    Also this is only the first presidential election defeat post Trump for the GOP, it took Labour 4 general election defeats to elect a centrist leadership candidate post Blair.

    Even if Trump does not run again in 2024 then another Trumpite like Cruz or Hawley or his son will run again and VP Pence by condemning the protestors and allowing Biden's confirmation last night will probably end up being the moderate candidate for the GOP nomination next time so populist and rightwing has the GOP core base now become.

    Many voters who would comfortably have defined themselves as Republican in the Reagan and Bush era now clearly define themselves as Independents too, so the GOP base left is more conservative and more populist
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 15,714

    Can't believe there are still Trump supporters close by the Congress, as Jon Sopel gets heckled trying to give his report with it as a backdrop. Thought they would have been scoured from the streets by now.

    Is it too cynical of me to think that the local law enforcement soft peddled to let them hang themselves, so to speak? They're not exactly doing their cause much good, are they?
  • Mary_BattyMary_Batty Posts: 295
    HYUFD said:

    This polling shows Trumpism has got hold of the GOP for at least a decade, Republican voters narrowly support the actions last night and overwhelmingly think Trump should not be impeached in total contrast to the rest of the US electorate.

    Even if Trump does not run again in 2024 then another Trumpite like Cruz or Hawley or his son will run again and VP Pence by condemning the protestors and allowing Biden's confirmation last night will probably end up being the moderate candidate for the GOP nomination next time so populist and rightwing has the GOP core base now become.

    Many voters who would comfortably have defined themselves as Republican in the Reagan and Bush era now clearly define themselves as Independents too, so the GOP base left is more conservative and more populist

    Polls about an event that happened 24 hours ago can't predict ten months ahead, let alone ten years.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,306
    edited January 7
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 26,009
    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    Protestors, at that and other events, who riot, are no longer protestors.

    Even with the partisan divide I'm amazed 'anti-democratic' is so low for republicans. Even if you think they were right they shut down the democratic chambers!

    I haven't seen enough of the footage. They looked like a bunch of protestors to me from what little I saw. Shocking riot control drills from the SF there. When the guy with the stars & stripes broke (walked?) through the cordon he just stood there waving his big-ass flag.
    They participated in the storming of a government building with the intent of putting a stop to a legal process, successfully, causing property damage and with the imminent threat of violence from their actions.

    That's crossed the line from a protest. They could sing kumbaya in footage and it wouldn't change that. Nor does that they could have done even worse.
    Yeah as I said I didn't see too much of it so if you say so. But I have seen riots and that wasn't it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 10,115
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    First like Trump, and don’t let the four seven fake comments above let anyone think I wasn’t first!

    There are actually only two. The other five are figments of your imagination. What you need is to ring up OGH and rant, scream and swear at him until he takes them down.
    No, you summon a sedition of SeanTs to invade the PB control centre.....

    "SeanTs to the Southwest - thousands of 'em"
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 15,846
    Update on Bigjohn Oust Wind Lift Sheet (OWLS) Covid Test

    Tested Negative again today (lamb dinner)

    I have developed my own 100% reliable Covid Test

    Result known in 10 secs

    Fart under the covers

    Place head under covers

    Waft covers

    If you cant smell it you have Covid if you can all is well even if it makes you cough
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,448
    HYUFD said:

    This polling shows Trumpism has got hold of the GOP for at least a decade, Republican voters narrowly support the actions last night and overwhelmingly think Trump should not be impeached in total contrast to the rest of the US electorate.

    Also this is only the first presidential election defeat post Trump for the GOP, it took Labour 4 general election defeats to elect a centrist leadership candidate post Blair.

    Even if Trump does not run again in 2024 then another Trumpite like Cruz or Hawley or his son will run again and VP Pence by condemning the protestors and allowing Biden's confirmation last night will probably end up being the moderate candidate for the GOP nomination next time so populist and rightwing has the GOP core base now become.

    Many voters who would comfortably have defined themselves as Republican in the Reagan and Bush era now clearly define themselves as Independents too, so the GOP base left is more conservative and more populist

    I agree with that.
  • Lock them up.

    Intern them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 10,115
    If the history of internet flash mobs is anything to go by, at least half the people they identify as protestors will turn out to be completely unrelated to the protest.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 5,155

    Update on Bigjohn Oust Wind Lift Sheet (OWLS) Covid Test

    Tested Negative again today (lamb dinner)

    I have developed my own 100% reliable Covid Test

    Result known in 10 secs

    Fart under the covers

    Place head under covers

    Waft covers

    If you cant smell it you have Covid if you can all is well even if it makes you cough

    Honestly mate, unfunny the first time round and not aging well. Grow up.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 9,887
    HYUFD said:

    This polling shows Trumpism has got hold of the GOP for at least a decade, Republican voters narrowly support the actions last night and overwhelmingly think Trump should not be impeached in total contrast to the rest of the US electorate.

    Even if Trump does not run again in 2024 then another Trumpite like Cruz or Hawley or his son will run again and VP Pence by condemning the protestors and allowing Biden's confirmation last night will probably end up being the moderate candidate for the GOP nomination next time so populist and rightwing has the GOP core base now become.

    Many voters who would comfortably have defined themselves as Republican in the Reagan and Bush era now clearly define themselves as Independents too, so the GOP base left is more conservative and more populist

    Your last paragraph is key. The number of registered Republicans is falling. I was at Uni with many, many Americans. Quite a number of whom were eminently sensible and moderate and Republican. I can't imagine many still being supporters of the Party.
  • Would the world be better off if all politicians were banned from social media?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 81,377
    edited January 7

    HYUFD said:

    This polling shows Trumpism has got hold of the GOP for at least a decade, Republican voters narrowly support the actions last night and overwhelmingly think Trump should not be impeached in total contrast to the rest of the US electorate.

    Even if Trump does not run again in 2024 then another Trumpite like Cruz or Hawley or his son will run again and VP Pence by condemning the protestors and allowing Biden's confirmation last night will probably end up being the moderate candidate for the GOP nomination next time so populist and rightwing has the GOP core base now become.

    Many voters who would comfortably have defined themselves as Republican in the Reagan and Bush era now clearly define themselves as Independents too, so the GOP base left is more conservative and more populist

    Polls about an event that happened 24 hours ago can't predict ten months ahead, let alone ten years.
    These polls are just evidence of a trend, remember in 2016 Trump and Cruz between them took 69% of Republican primary voters votes
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 3,726
    edited January 7
    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    Protestors, at that and other events, who riot, are no longer protestors.

    Even with the partisan divide I'm amazed 'anti-democratic' is so low for republicans. Even if you think they were right they shut down the democratic chambers!

    I haven't seen enough of the footage. They looked like a bunch of protestors to me from what little I saw. Shocking riot control drills from the SF there. When the guy with the stars & stripes broke (walked?) through the cordon he just stood there waving his big-ass flag.
    They participated in the storming of a government building with the intent of putting a stop to a legal process, successfully, causing property damage and with the imminent threat of violence from their actions.

    That's crossed the line from a protest. They could sing kumbaya in footage and it wouldn't change that. Nor does that they could have done even worse.
    Yeah as I said I didn't see too much of it so if you say so. But I have seen riots and that wasn't it.
    There was quite a mixture of people in there. Seasoned white supremacists, kids who looked a bit scared and barely touched anything, and older radicals of various different stripes and different levels of aggression. The now famous man in the furry outfit appears to have been a peformative crank, but the other person filmed in the senate in full combat gear and apparent clips for hostage-taking hadn't come for a teddy bears' picnic.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 28,312
    (FPT)

    .. (I'm not a Ms BTW, I'm a gay)..

    My apologies for mis-remembering!

    On the vaccination side in particular, I think you are being over-pessimistic. The government is shambolic in many ways, but on this particular issue the delivery is happening already and there's no doubt it is going to ramp up.
    And however shambolic the government might or might not be, delivery of the vaccines doesn't really depend all that much on them now, though they can make a significant difference at the margin.
  • blairfblairf Posts: 98
    struck by brigadier's supermarket chain analogy as it is my area. mmm. so a super will have 40,000 SKU (lines) and the vaccine effort has er two. If gov did want efficient distribution they would have used the big 6 not the bloody army.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    edited January 7

    If the history of internet flash mobs is anything to go by, at least half the people they identify as protestors will turn out to be completely unrelated to the protest.
    Its a slippery slope...a mob goes round dox'ing another mob on social media...and when "they" do, the other "side" with do it.

    Let the authorities do their jobs. I have no doubt the authorities have all the videos and will be scooping them up over the coming week.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 6,733

    Update on Bigjohn Oust Wind Lift Sheet (OWLS) Covid Test

    Tested Negative again today (lamb dinner)

    I have developed my own 100% reliable Covid Test

    Result known in 10 secs

    Fart under the covers

    Place head under covers

    Waft covers

    If you cant smell it you have Covid if you can all is well even if it makes you cough

    Trump has really got to you!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 63,352
    edited January 7
    I know there's a big focus on jabbing and speed of jabbing but the way we'll get numbers down right now isn't through vaccination - it's through living like hermit crabs.*
    The vaccines will come when they come - but there's not enough to induce any sort of herd immunity yet.
    * The exception is care homes
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    edited January 7
    That's a very stupid tweet by d'ancona for a number of reasons.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 2,119
    blairf said:

    struck by brigadier's supermarket chain analogy as it is my area. mmm. so a super will have 40,000 SKU (lines) and the vaccine effort has er two. If gov did want efficient distribution they would have used the big 6 not the bloody army.

    How many SKUs do you think Army logistics has?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302

    He seems to have missed that this week is apparently going twice as fast as last week.

    Nothing ever *starts* at rate x - it always builds up.
    Journalists and maths.....about as good as government and tech.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 28,903

    Would the world be better off if all politicians were banned from social media?

    Let’s ban all the politicians and journalists from Twitter - would make the public discourse so much better almost overnight.
  • He seems to have missed that this week is apparently going twice as fast as last week.

    Nothing ever *starts* at rate x - it always builds up.
    I know, I was trying to contextualise the figure for election geeks.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 4,458
    The figures don't surprise me too much but I'm a little sceptical of polling this soon after the event. Didn't 75% of Republican voters think Trump had been cheated out of the election?

    The only good thing you can say is that at least it's only a minority of republican voters. If the majority won't stand for it then the nutters may have to acquiesce.
  • isamisam Posts: 34,821
    Daily Mail sticking the boot into the Premier League, & the govt

  • RobDRobD Posts: 50,909

    That's a very stupid tweet by d'ancona for a number of reasons.
    The media's myopic focus on a single number is returning?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    Sandpit said:

    Would the world be better off if all politicians were banned from social media?

    Let’s ban all the politicians and journalists from Twitter - would make the public discourse so much better almost overnight.
    Just shut them all down...world would be a better place without toxic twitter, fake-agram and nobody needs to see idiot perform stupid dances on tiktok.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 2,668
    Crucially, they don't then have to repeat the trick on the following day, though.
  • blairfblairf Posts: 98
    TimT said:

    blairf said:

    struck by brigadier's supermarket chain analogy as it is my area. mmm. so a super will have 40,000 SKU (lines) and the vaccine effort has er two. If gov did want efficient distribution they would have used the big 6 not the bloody army.

    How many SKUs do you think Army logistics has?
    off the top of my head i would guess about 10,000. your point being?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 34,494
    A sign they don’t have the numbers for the 25th?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    RobD said:

    That's a very stupid tweet by d'ancona for a number of reasons.
    The media's myopic focus on a single number is returning?
    I predict by the end of January they will be screaming like crazy about how far behind pace.the government is.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 6,003

    HYUFD said:

    This polling shows Trumpism has got hold of the GOP for at least a decade, Republican voters narrowly support the actions last night and overwhelmingly think Trump should not be impeached in total contrast to the rest of the US electorate.

    Also this is only the first presidential election defeat post Trump for the GOP, it took Labour 4 general election defeats to elect a centrist leadership candidate post Blair.

    Even if Trump does not run again in 2024 then another Trumpite like Cruz or Hawley or his son will run again and VP Pence by condemning the protestors and allowing Biden's confirmation last night will probably end up being the moderate candidate for the GOP nomination next time so populist and rightwing has the GOP core base now become.

    Many voters who would comfortably have defined themselves as Republican in the Reagan and Bush era now clearly define themselves as Independents too, so the GOP base left is more conservative and more populist

    I agree with that.
    The last paragraph is analogous to the UK Conservative Party. Moderates such as myself have left the party and are politically homeless so consequently it is more dominated by the populist hard right
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 28,903

    He seems to have missed that this week is apparently going twice as fast as last week.

    Nothing ever *starts* at rate x - it always builds up.
    Journalists and maths.....about as good as government and tech.
    The amazing thing is that the journalists appear to be utterly incapable of learning these things.

    Most of us on here can research or pick up new concepts that come up in conversation, but the hacks of the Lobby haven’t learned anything remotely technical in the past year - despite it being the single biggest story of their entire careers.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 15,846

    That's a very stupid tweet by d'ancona for a number of reasons.
    Lots of the mass vaccs sites dont start till Monday

    Will see a real ramping up from then hopefully
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 6,266
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Whoa. Did Boris Johnson actually just condemn Donald Trump for subverting democracy?

    He did. Shocked he was so candid, but it was needed.
    I think he broke my jaw. There was a sharp pain as it hit the floor.

    You’re right he needed to, but I never thought he’d do it.
    Trump is a nobody now. A dangerous nobody, but a nobody. I think he knows perfectly well how people only respected him because he was the President, but will still be shocked when people start condemning him. People who disliked him still having to kiss his arse seems like the primary perk of the job for a man like him.
    Yep. He will cut a sad and pathetic figure within the fortnight. And rightly so.
  • Sandpit said:

    Would the world be better off if all politicians were banned from social media?

    Let’s ban all the politicians and journalists from Twitter - would make the public discourse so much better almost overnight.
    For years I've said every time you post on social media you have to choose the correct word to use in a sentence (something like there/their/they're or yours/you're/your) now I'm adding a couple of statistical/mathematical questions.
  • blairfblairf Posts: 98
    blairf said:

    TimT said:

    blairf said:

    struck by brigadier's supermarket chain analogy as it is my area. mmm. so a super will have 40,000 SKU (lines) and the vaccine effort has er two. If gov did want efficient distribution they would have used the big 6 not the bloody army.

    How many SKUs do you think Army logistics has?
    off the top of my head i would guess about 10,000. your point being?
    my point (in case you were wondering) is that if you want an infrastructure that can get XXX stuff to the UK general pop under YYY conditions (temp, time, distance) would you use the army or the supers. one set do it for a living 24/7 365 the other not so much
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 28,903
    RobD said:

    That's a very stupid tweet by d'ancona for a number of reasons.
    The media's myopic focus on a single number is returning?
    Of course it is, it’s all they understand.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 34,494
    edited January 7
    What would be the point if that? There are few organisations more useless than the DfE but we can count OFSTED among them.

    Edit - I wonder if at any point the Auditor General is going to start taking an interest though.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 6,003

    If the history of internet flash mobs is anything to go by, at least half the people they identify as protestors will turn out to be completely unrelated to the protest.
    Its a slippery slope...a mob goes round dox'ing another mob on social media...and when "they" do, the other "side" with do it.

    Let the authorities do their jobs. I have no doubt the authorities have all the videos and will be scooping them up over the coming week.
    I think a lot of those that went along to protest and got swept along will be feeling very worried today. Jail is not nice anywhere, but in the US....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    edited January 7
    Sandpit said:

    He seems to have missed that this week is apparently going twice as fast as last week.

    Nothing ever *starts* at rate x - it always builds up.
    Journalists and maths.....about as good as government and tech.
    The amazing thing is that the journalists appear to be utterly incapable of learning these things.

    Most of us on here can research or pick up new concepts that come up in conversation, but the hacks of the Lobby haven’t learned anything remotely technical in the past year - despite it being the single biggest story of their entire careers.
    I put it down to laziness. Much easier to read a few tweets and think you are a world expert on the chemical industry.... reading academic papers and taking the time to learn about what various technical aspects means requires a bit more effort.
  • Sandpit said:

    He seems to have missed that this week is apparently going twice as fast as last week.

    Nothing ever *starts* at rate x - it always builds up.
    Journalists and maths.....about as good as government and tech.
    The amazing thing is that the journalists appear to be utterly incapable of learning these things.

    Most of us on here can research or pick up new concepts that come up in conversation, but the hacks of the Lobby haven’t learned anything remotely technical in the past year - despite it being the single biggest story of their entire careers.
    I think it was by early/Mid April most of us on here had realised there was a weekend/bank holiday effect on the reporting figures.

    Some journalists still haven't grasped that.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 6,266
    edited January 7
    Any of the remaining PB Trumptons... @contrarian @MrEd @Luckyguy1983 @Dura_Ace

    Still backing your man?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 50,909

    That's a very stupid tweet by d'ancona for a number of reasons.
    Lots of the mass vaccs sites dont start till Monday

    Will see a real ramping up from then hopefully
    I mean the tweet is just factually wrong. It's 1.3m up to the 3rd, before any AZN vaccine was administered.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    edited January 7

    If the history of internet flash mobs is anything to go by, at least half the people they identify as protestors will turn out to be completely unrelated to the protest.
    Its a slippery slope...a mob goes round dox'ing another mob on social media...and when "they" do, the other "side" with do it.

    Let the authorities do their jobs. I have no doubt the authorities have all the videos and will be scooping them up over the coming week.
    I think a lot of those that went along to protest and got swept along will be feeling very worried today. Jail is not nice anywhere, but in the US....
    The punishments will be severe.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 2,119



    Intern them.

    Is that a Monica Lewinsky reference?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 63,352
    ydoethur said:

    A sign they don’t have the numbers for the 25th?
    The 25th requires the acquiescence of the VP and congress - "Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide" as you need congress for the presidential "Please let me have my job back" part later on, the "and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments" seems almost useless in the drafting
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 88,575
    edited January 7
    She's married to Mitch McConnell, if he really is urging the 25th Amendment to be enacted surely he'd urge his wife to stay put and vote to remove Trump and empower Mike Pence.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 10,115
    Sandpit said:

    He seems to have missed that this week is apparently going twice as fast as last week.

    Nothing ever *starts* at rate x - it always builds up.
    Journalists and maths.....about as good as government and tech.
    The amazing thing is that the journalists appear to be utterly incapable of learning these things.

    Most of us on here can research or pick up new concepts that come up in conversation, but the hacks of the Lobby haven’t learned anything remotely technical in the past year - despite it being the single biggest story of their entire careers.
    They actively don't want to learn in many cases.

    The disdain for numbers is almost palpable - the classic "ugh science" thing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 34,494
    edited January 7
    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    A sign they don’t have the numbers for the 25th?
    The 25th requires the acquiescence of the VP and congress - "Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide" as you need congress for the presidential "Please let me have my job back" part later on, the "and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments" seems almost useless in the drafting
    The 25th as it stands requires the VP and over 50% of the cabinet to sign a paper involving it, sending copies to the Speaker and the PPT. Congress can appoint another group to look into it but hasn’t ever done so yet.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 6,266

    That's a very stupid tweet by d'ancona for a number of reasons.
    Why? At least he is holding the government to account on vaccination rates.

    Of course, many on here would prefer to talk about “dickheads” at raves in France.

    JFDI.
  • TimT said:



    Intern them.

    Is that a Monica Lewinsky reference?
    More a reference to Executive Order 9066.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 50,909
    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    A sign they don’t have the numbers for the 25th?
    The 25th requires the acquiescence of the VP and congress - "Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide" as you need congress for the presidential "Please let me have my job back" part later on, the "and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments" seems almost useless in the drafting
    Is there a law empowering Congress in this case? It appears the constitution explicitly allows for the cabinet, but not for congress, to invoke it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 63,352

    She's married to Mitch McConnell, if he really is urging the 25th Amendment to be enacted surely he'd urge his wife to stay put and vote to empower Mike Pence.
    or of such other body as Congress may by law provide can clearly obviate Trump's cabinet by my reading ? I'd read it as the 25th is more likely to be invoked (Though not certain yet) with Mrs McConnell resigning personally.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 50,909

    That's a very stupid tweet by d'ancona for a number of reasons.
    Why? At least he is holding the government to account on vaccination rates.

    Of course, many on here would prefer to talk about “dickheads” at raves in France.

    JFDI.
    It's wrong, for starters.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 15,846
    RobD said:

    That's a very stupid tweet by d'ancona for a number of reasons.
    Lots of the mass vaccs sites dont start till Monday

    Will see a real ramping up from then hopefully
    I mean the tweet is just factually wrong. It's 1.3m up to the 3rd, before any AZN vaccine was administered.
    Daily figures from Monday too.

    As someone not usually on the side of the current administration I think so far we are doing well on vaccines
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 63,352
    edited January 7
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    A sign they don’t have the numbers for the 25th?
    The 25th requires the acquiescence of the VP and congress - "Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide" as you need congress for the presidential "Please let me have my job back" part later on, the "and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments" seems almost useless in the drafting
    Is there a law empowering Congress in this case? It appears the constitution explicitly allows for the cabinet, but not for congress, to invoke it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    Section 4.

    Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

    Doesn't say anywhere that body can't be congress itself
  • RobDRobD Posts: 50,909

    RobD said:

    That's a very stupid tweet by d'ancona for a number of reasons.
    Lots of the mass vaccs sites dont start till Monday

    Will see a real ramping up from then hopefully
    I mean the tweet is just factually wrong. It's 1.3m up to the 3rd, before any AZN vaccine was administered.
    Daily figures from Monday too.

    As someone not usually on the side of the current administration I think so far we are doing well on vaccines
    And I think with a breakdown by demographic, which should be interesting to see.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 2,119
    blairf said:

    blairf said:

    TimT said:

    blairf said:

    struck by brigadier's supermarket chain analogy as it is my area. mmm. so a super will have 40,000 SKU (lines) and the vaccine effort has er two. If gov did want efficient distribution they would have used the big 6 not the bloody army.

    How many SKUs do you think Army logistics has?
    off the top of my head i would guess about 10,000. your point being?
    my point (in case you were wondering) is that if you want an infrastructure that can get XXX stuff to the UK general pop under YYY conditions (temp, time, distance) would you use the army or the supers. one set do it for a living 24/7 365 the other not so much
    You seemed to be impugning in your comment the Army's ability to do logistics and implying that the Supermarkets would be better. Or did I get you wrong?
  • Mary_BattyMary_Batty Posts: 295

    She's married to Mitch McConnell, if he really is urging the 25th Amendment to be enacted surely he'd urge his wife to stay put and vote to remove Trump and empower Mike Pence.
    The question was about her name. She refers to herself as Chao, not McConnell, so I was wondering why you chose to use her husband's name.

    I mean, if your going to set you'reself up as some kind of language police, that probably needs explaining.
  • ydoethur said:

    A sign they don’t have the numbers for the 25th?
    Yup.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 50,909
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    A sign they don’t have the numbers for the 25th?
    The 25th requires the acquiescence of the VP and congress - "Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide" as you need congress for the presidential "Please let me have my job back" part later on, the "and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments" seems almost useless in the drafting
    Is there a law empowering Congress in this case? It appears the constitution explicitly allows for the cabinet, but not for congress, to invoke it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    Section 4.

    Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
    But I don't see where Congress is involved, apart from making laws empowering other bodies to make the determination?
  • She's married to Mitch McConnell, if he really is urging the 25th Amendment to be enacted surely he'd urge his wife to stay put and vote to remove Trump and empower Mike Pence.
    What's interesting is that the 25th requires a majority of the cabinet. There's no permanent Director of Homeland Security, and now no Transport Sec - does that reduce the majority required?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 28,903

    Sandpit said:

    He seems to have missed that this week is apparently going twice as fast as last week.

    Nothing ever *starts* at rate x - it always builds up.
    Journalists and maths.....about as good as government and tech.
    The amazing thing is that the journalists appear to be utterly incapable of learning these things.

    Most of us on here can research or pick up new concepts that come up in conversation, but the hacks of the Lobby haven’t learned anything remotely technical in the past year - despite it being the single biggest story of their entire careers.
    I think it was by early/Mid April most of us on here had realised there was a weekend/bank holiday effect on the reporting figures.

    Some journalists still haven't grasped that.
    They still haven’t grasped it, despite the numbers being up and down like a whore’s drawers for the past couple of weeks.

    Or do they think it was pure co-incidence that 25th and 26th December produced the lowest number of new cases in months, and 28th and 29th the highest?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 6,266

    He seems to have missed that this week is apparently going twice as fast as last week.

    Nothing ever *starts* at rate x - it always builds up.
    I know, I was trying to contextualise the figure for election geeks.
    Sure, but at least he is pushing the key point.

    Of course, we could spend endless hours attacking individuals for having a few mates over or going on holiday to tropical climates.

    I dare say many PBers prefer to do the latter.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 13,182

    Any of the remaining PB Trumptons... @contrarian @MrEd @Luckyguy1983 @Dura_Ace

    Still backing your man?

    The events of last night haven't changed my opinion about Trump, or the situation in the USA, from what they were. Which wasn't a backing of Trump, but also wasn't a backing of his opponents, or the feeling of a pressing need for him to be removed from the Presidency.

    I didn't watch the events as they unfolded (I was watching a French crime thriller on catch up) - I just dipped into PB for updates. Perhaps that's enabled me to take a slightly less impassioned view of what happened.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 50,909

    She's married to Mitch McConnell, if he really is urging the 25th Amendment to be enacted surely he'd urge his wife to stay put and vote to remove Trump and empower Mike Pence.
    The question was about her name. She refers to herself as Chao, not McConnell, so I was wondering why you chose to use her husband's name.

    I mean, if your going to set you'reself up as some kind of language police, that probably needs explaining.
    Emphasising she's McConnell's wife, which seems relevant here?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 34,494
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    A sign they don’t have the numbers for the 25th?
    The 25th requires the acquiescence of the VP and congress - "Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide" as you need congress for the presidential "Please let me have my job back" part later on, the "and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments" seems almost useless in the drafting
    Is there a law empowering Congress in this case? It appears the constitution explicitly allows for the cabinet, but not for congress, to invoke it.
    Congress can appoint a special commission to look into it by passing a law. But in practice I think that was intended to cover a catastrophe where the cabinet had been wiped out and no new appointments made. Or perhaps a president with a long term illness whose cabinet were protecting them (a la Woodrow Wilson).

    I don’t see how it would apply in this case. It would be quicker to impeach than to draft a law, have it vetoed, send it back...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 63,352
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    A sign they don’t have the numbers for the 25th?
    The 25th requires the acquiescence of the VP and congress - "Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide" as you need congress for the presidential "Please let me have my job back" part later on, the "and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments" seems almost useless in the drafting
    Is there a law empowering Congress in this case? It appears the constitution explicitly allows for the cabinet, but not for congress, to invoke it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    Section 4.

    Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
    But I don't see where Congress is involved, apart from making laws empowering other bodies to make the determination?
    "or of such other body as Congress may by law provide" - Why can't this be congress itself ?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 9,230
    TimT said:

    blairf said:

    blairf said:

    TimT said:

    blairf said:

    struck by brigadier's supermarket chain analogy as it is my area. mmm. so a super will have 40,000 SKU (lines) and the vaccine effort has er two. If gov did want efficient distribution they would have used the big 6 not the bloody army.

    How many SKUs do you think Army logistics has?
    off the top of my head i would guess about 10,000. your point being?
    my point (in case you were wondering) is that if you want an infrastructure that can get XXX stuff to the UK general pop under YYY conditions (temp, time, distance) would you use the army or the supers. one set do it for a living 24/7 365 the other not so much
    You seemed to be impugning in your comment the Army's ability to do logistics and implying that the Supermarkets would be better. Or did I get you wrong?
    Nothing like a 30mm Rarden cannon on a CVR(T) to encourage the other motorists to get out of the way. Or are they worried about hijacking?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 24,349
    Out of Reps, Dems and Indies isn't the smallest group Reps? A minority of a minority may not be so disastrous. Also somewhat amusing to see that only 10% of GOPers see the freedom fighters/cry babies as pro democratic. Clearly not about democracy then, if anyone was in doubt.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 53,302
    edited January 7
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    He seems to have missed that this week is apparently going twice as fast as last week.

    Nothing ever *starts* at rate x - it always builds up.
    Journalists and maths.....about as good as government and tech.
    The amazing thing is that the journalists appear to be utterly incapable of learning these things.

    Most of us on here can research or pick up new concepts that come up in conversation, but the hacks of the Lobby haven’t learned anything remotely technical in the past year - despite it being the single biggest story of their entire careers.
    I think it was by early/Mid April most of us on here had realised there was a weekend/bank holiday effect on the reporting figures.

    Some journalists still haven't grasped that.
    They still haven’t grasped it, despite the numbers being up and down like a whore’s drawers for the past couple of weeks.

    Or do they think it was pure co-incidence that 25th and 26th December produced the lowest number of new cases in months, and 28th and 29th the highest?
    I have to say Ed Conway early on was utter shit, more recently he has been much better..perhaps he has been reading PB as he now likes to talk about things like positivity rates and date of test.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 50,909
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    A sign they don’t have the numbers for the 25th?
    The 25th requires the acquiescence of the VP and congress - "Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide" as you need congress for the presidential "Please let me have my job back" part later on, the "and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments" seems almost useless in the drafting
    Is there a law empowering Congress in this case? It appears the constitution explicitly allows for the cabinet, but not for congress, to invoke it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    Section 4.

    Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
    But I don't see where Congress is involved, apart from making laws empowering other bodies to make the determination?
    "or of such other body as Congress may by law provide" - Why can't this be congress itself ?
    No reason, but there would need to be a law enacted by Congress empowering it to do so, hence my question. :p
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