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Some extraordinary “storming the Capitol” polling from YouGov US – politicalbetting.com

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  • Been some chatter on PB that Joe Biden's cabinet picks have been boring, unimpressive, so forth & so on.

    Personally disagree, and below is the full list as of today (still with a couple "to be decided")

    Cabinet Secretaries:
    State - Anthony Blinken (former National Security Advisor and former Deputy Secretary of State)
    Treasury - Janet Yellin (former Federal Reserve Chair)
    Defense - Lloyd Austin (former commander US Central Command)
    Justice - Merrick Garland (former US Appeals Court judge & SCOTUS nominee)
    Interior - Deb Haaland (former US Representative from New Mexico)
    Agriculture - Tom Vilsack (former USDA Secretary and former Governor of Iowa)
    Commerce - Gina Raimondo (current Governor of Rhode Island, was on 2020 VP shortlist)
    Labor - Marty Walsh (current Mayor of Boston
    Health & Human Services - Xavier Becerra (current Attorney General of California, former US Representative)
    Housing & Urban Development - Marcia Fudge (now US Representative from Ohio, chair of Congressional Black Caucus)
    Transportation - Pete Buttigeg (former Mayor of Fort Wayne, IN and 2020 presidential candidate)
    Energy - Jennifer Granholm (former Governor of Michigan)
    Education - Miguel Cardona (current Connecticut Commissioner of Education)
    Veterans Affairs - Dennis McDonough (former White House Chief of Staff for Obama, former Deputy NSA)
    Homeland Security - Alejandro Mayorkas (former Deputy Secretary for Homeland Security)

    Officials of Cabinet Rank:
    White House Chief of Staff - Ron Klain (former White House Ebola Relief Coordinator, former Chief of Staff for VP Biden)
    US Trade Representative - Katherine Tai (trade counsel for US House Ways & Means Committee)
    Director of National Intelligence - Avril Haines (former Deputy NSA, former Deputy Director of CIA)
    Director of Central Intelligence Agency - to be announced
    Environmental Protection Agency Administrator - Michael S. Regan (now Director of North Carolina Dep of Enviro Quality)
    Office of Management & Budget Director - Neera Tanden (now CEO of Center for American Progress)
    Administrator of Small Business Administration - to be decided
    Ambassador to United Nations - Linda Thomas-Greenfield (former Assistant SOS for African Affairs, former director general US Foreign Service, former Ambassador to Liberia)
    Chair of Council of Economic Advisors - Cecilia Rouse4 (current Dean of Princeton School of Public & International Affairs, former member CEA)
    US Special Presidential Envoy for Climate - John Kerry (former US Secretary of State, former presidential nominee, former US Senator)




  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,131
    edited January 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    Don't they have one of AZN's half dozen manufacturing plants? If so, they could probably come to a deal :smile:
    Are you sure?

    Currently about 60 people are employed by AstraZeneca in Ireland with a wide range of expertise in different areas including sales, marketing, medical & regulatory affairs, IT, finance and administration.

    https://www.astrazeneca.com/country-sites/ireland.html

    Doesn't exactly sound like the sort of workforce ready to make millions of doses of a novel vaccine. More like the people to contact to for a nice ad, but not actually making it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,876
    rcs1000 said:

    Do I get to choose where in China I'm a woman?
    That sounds like a dark acid tinged version of Aladdin.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,313
    .
    FF43 said:

    The reviews aren't what you might expect. Those that are interested in history give it one star. Those who start off saying "I like Boris" give it five stars. I haven't counted them but presumably there are more readers in the second group than the first.

    Both groups agree the book is really about Boris Johnson and not Winston Churchill.
    I think you judged that from the top review only. Most of the high ranked reviews aren't ones that are using it to say how much they like Boris.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,876

    I know this is hard for you to grasp: Biden will be an excellent president.
    I think you've missed kle4's point there to be fair.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,813
    RobD said:

    .

    I think you judged that from the top review only. Most of the high ranked reviews aren't ones that are using it to say how much they like Boris.
    I mistrust Amazon rankings. I always go by date.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,876

    Been some chatter on PB that Joe Biden's cabinet picks have been boring, unimpressive, so forth & so on.

    Personally disagree, and below is the full list as of today (still with a couple "to be decided")

    Cabinet Secretaries:
    State - Anthony Blinken (former National Security Advisor and former Deputy Secretary of State)
    Treasury - Janet Yellin (former Federal Reserve Chair)
    Defense - Lloyd Austin (former commander US Central Command)
    Justice - Merrick Garland (former US Appeals Court judge & SCOTUS nominee)
    Interior - Deb Haaland (former US Representative from New Mexico)
    Agriculture - Tom Vilsack (former USDA Secretary and former Governor of Iowa)
    Commerce - Gina Raimondo (current Governor of Rhode Island, was on 2020 VP shortlist)
    Labor - Marty Walsh (current Mayor of Boston
    Health & Human Services - Xavier Becerra (current Attorney General of California, former US Representative)
    Housing & Urban Development - Marcia Fudge (now US Representative from Ohio, chair of Congressional Black Caucus)
    Transportation - Pete Buttigeg (former Mayor of Fort Wayne, IN and 2020 presidential candidate)
    Energy - Jennifer Granholm (former Governor of Michigan)
    Education - Miguel Cardona (current Connecticut Commissioner of Education)
    Veterans Affairs - Dennis McDonough (former White House Chief of Staff for Obama, former Deputy NSA)
    Homeland Security - Alejandro Mayorkas (former Deputy Secretary for Homeland Security)

    Officials of Cabinet Rank:
    White House Chief of Staff - Ron Klain (former White House Ebola Relief Coordinator, former Chief of Staff for VP Biden)
    US Trade Representative - Katherine Tai (trade counsel for US House Ways & Means Committee)
    Director of National Intelligence - Avril Haines (former Deputy NSA, former Deputy Director of CIA)
    Director of Central Intelligence Agency - to be announced
    Environmental Protection Agency Administrator - Michael S. Regan (now Director of North Carolina Dep of Enviro Quality)
    Office of Management & Budget Director - Neera Tanden (now CEO of Center for American Progress)
    Administrator of Small Business Administration - to be decided
    Ambassador to United Nations - Linda Thomas-Greenfield (former Assistant SOS for African Affairs, former director general US Foreign Service, former Ambassador to Liberia)
    Chair of Council of Economic Advisors - Cecilia Rouse4 (current Dean of Princeton School of Public & International Affairs, former member CEA)
    US Special Presidential Envoy for Climate - John Kerry (former US Secretary of State, former presidential nominee, former US Senator)




    They've sure been boring compared to the previous guy.
    Many of them are qualified for the role, and none noticeably certifiable.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902
    Leon said:

    He sounds quite the character. Charming, charismatic, and full of good stories.

    All I know, from my private interaction with the moderators, is that he actively cuckolded about half a dozen regular commenters, and was thence driven from the site.
    Slightly tedious on the subject of himself, though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,301
    edited January 2021

    I know this is hard for you to grasp: Biden will be an excellent president.
    I think Biden could well be a very good president. I was disputing gealbhan's suggestion on its own terms.
  • Leon said:

    Maybe, maybe even probably. Maybe even urgently.

    But is this what you should be saying, right now, to 70m Trump voters - pretty much half the country - many of whom feel dismayed, disgruntled, or disenfranchised?

    But Biden got 81 million votes. His percentage winning margin in November was 4.4%.
    Which isn't too shabby when you compare:

    Hillary's margin of 2.1% in 2016
    Obama's 3.9% in 2012
    Obama's 7.2% in 2008
    Bush's 2.4% in 2004
    Gore's tiny 0.5% in 2000.

    The US *seems* to have been more divided in 2000.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    dixiedean said:

    I think you've missed kle4's point there to be fair.
    I wasn’t replying to him.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    edited January 2021
    kle4 said:

    I think Biden could well be a very good president. I was disputing gealbhan's suggestion on its own terms.
    I know, my post was aimed at G, not you. I fucked up the responses somehow. Apologies.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902
    rcs1000 said:

    The Spectator is not "the most revered political magazine in the world".

    And I speak as a former subscriber.
    I think Leon also admires him for his talent for baseless hyperbole.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,301
    dixiedean said:

    They've sure been boring compared to the previous guy.
    Many of them are qualified for the role, and none noticeably certifiable.
    Who were the ones who lasted from start to finish under Trump? It's probably more than I'd imagine.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    dixiedean said:

    They've sure been boring compared to the previous guy.
    Many of them are qualified for the role, and none noticeably certifiable.
    Indeed, drearily competent and sane. How one pines for the good old days!
  • Leon said:

    Maybe, maybe even probably. Maybe even urgently.

    But is this what you should be saying, right now, to 70m Trump voters - pretty much half the country - many of whom feel dismayed, disgruntled, or disenfranchised?

    No, it is not. This is not statesmanship. It is goading of the loser, it is stoking of the fires.

    There are plenty of ways to condemn yesterday's utterly disgraceful scenes without making the atmosphere worse. Biden did exactly that with his first response, last night. Yet now, Biden's Democrats seem like they want to double down on the mad identity politics and rub the noses of the Republicans in their defeat. This seems to me, as an outsider, like a tragic mistake. Akin to the British shooting the Irish rebels in 1916, in a strange way,

    I hope I am wrong, and yielding to hyperbole, which is not unknown.

    Now I am going to watch The Crown, and our beloved and calming Queen. Goodnight PB.

    Yes. Yes it is what they should be saying. Yes it is statesmanship.

    Saying in calm tones why there must be equal protection under the law is absolutely what should be said.

    Saying in calm tones why reform is needed is absolutely what should be said.

    If you think dealing with the fact that the Police are prepared to attack unarmed peaceful protestors but not prepared to stop a preplanned nationally televised invasion of the Capitol is "identity politics" then there is no helping you.

    If you think telling the Police to stop shooting unarmed black men and to start preventing crimes instead is shooting the Irish then there is no helping you.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,222

    Been some chatter on PB that Joe Biden's cabinet picks have been boring, unimpressive, so forth & so on.

    Personally disagree, and below is the full list as of today (still with a couple "to be decided")

    Cabinet Secretaries:
    State - Anthony Blinken (former National Security Advisor and former Deputy Secretary of State)
    Treasury - Janet Yellin (former Federal Reserve Chair)
    Defense - Lloyd Austin (former commander US Central Command)
    Justice - Merrick Garland (former US Appeals Court judge & SCOTUS nominee)
    Interior - Deb Haaland (former US Representative from New Mexico)
    Agriculture - Tom Vilsack (former USDA Secretary and former Governor of Iowa)
    Commerce - Gina Raimondo (current Governor of Rhode Island, was on 2020 VP shortlist)
    Labor - Marty Walsh (current Mayor of Boston
    Health & Human Services - Xavier Becerra (current Attorney General of California, former US Representative)
    Housing & Urban Development - Marcia Fudge (now US Representative from Ohio, chair of Congressional Black Caucus)
    Transportation - Pete Buttigeg (former Mayor of Fort Wayne, IN and 2020 presidential candidate)
    Energy - Jennifer Granholm (former Governor of Michigan)
    Education - Miguel Cardona (current Connecticut Commissioner of Education)
    Veterans Affairs - Dennis McDonough (former White House Chief of Staff for Obama, former Deputy NSA)
    Homeland Security - Alejandro Mayorkas (former Deputy Secretary for Homeland Security)

    Officials of Cabinet Rank:
    White House Chief of Staff - Ron Klain (former White House Ebola Relief Coordinator, former Chief of Staff for VP Biden)
    US Trade Representative - Katherine Tai (trade counsel for US House Ways & Means Committee)
    Director of National Intelligence - Avril Haines (former Deputy NSA, former Deputy Director of CIA)
    Director of Central Intelligence Agency - to be announced
    Environmental Protection Agency Administrator - Michael S. Regan (now Director of North Carolina Dep of Enviro Quality)
    Office of Management & Budget Director - Neera Tanden (now CEO of Center for American Progress)
    Administrator of Small Business Administration - to be decided
    Ambassador to United Nations - Linda Thomas-Greenfield (former Assistant SOS for African Affairs, former director general US Foreign Service, former Ambassador to Liberia)
    Chair of Council of Economic Advisors - Cecilia Rouse4 (current Dean of Princeton School of Public & International Affairs, former member CEA)
    US Special Presidential Envoy for Climate - John Kerry (former US Secretary of State, former presidential nominee, former US Senator)

    Got to love a politician called Marcia Fudge....
  • Leon said:

    Given the difference in GDP per capita, which is ever widening. yes I would rather be a woman in China than Bangladesh

    Stay clear of Xinjiang then!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,222

    Colin Powell on CNN saying wait out the 13 days, then deal with Trump. No point to 25th Amendment or impeachment 'too slow'.

    Again, let's see who he sends his time pardoning. If it is anyone who went into Congress yesterday - get your signing pens ready, guys and gals...
  • Got to love a politician called Marcia Fudge....
    It IS a funny name, and one that makes yours truly a wee bit peckish every time it's encountered.

    She's actually a pretty good Congresswoman, and as chair of Black Congressional Caucus has been a workhorse rather than a show pony.

    BTW, the special election to fill her seat in Congress, which is the east (Black) side of Cleveland, will feature an intra-party battle for the Democratic nomination between establishment and progressives.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,301

    Precisely.

    Most Brits (it seems from PB) think of BLM as wokeism gone wild. This is NOT the view in the US, for reasons just stated.

    Fact that Black people are at greater risk of targeting and actual harm from police is something that most White people in the United States understand. The death of George Floyd was straw that broke the camel's back.

    Thus strong level of support for BLM - not for rioting and other wretched excesses, but the basic message - has been strong since Floyd's death, and across a wide and often surprising demographic and political spectrum.
    I think it is important that as a criticism of some of the actions in the UK is how the protests were perceived as somewhat divorced from the UK context, when making that criticism one should not, therefore, translate it into criticism of the movement in its context of the USA, where it will be of much greater relevance and power. And that need not then mean endorsement of the rioting and excesses as you put it.
  • Yet another unintended consequence for Bloody Hands Hawley
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,301

    Got to love a politician called Marcia Fudge....
    She would be perfect for a role in the EU Commission.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,301
    Man like that will probably love being cancelled unfortunately, regardless of the reason being pretty firm.

  • Precisely.

    Most Brits (it seems from PB) think of BLM as wokeism gone wild. This is NOT the view in the US, for reasons just stated.

    Fact that Black people are at greater risk of targeting and actual harm from police is something that most White people in the United States understand. The death of George Floyd was straw that broke the camel's back.

    Thus strong level of support for BLM - not for rioting and other wretched excesses, but the basic message - has been strong since Floyd's death, and across a wide and often surprising demographic and political spectrum.
    I think there's strong support for it in many elements of across the UK too. I certainly support it and I know a lot of people who do. Witnessing Floyd's death and the countless atrocities seen since - we can be very glad we don't have this in this country, while wanting reform in the USA.

    What passes for the Policing in America is not worthy of a first world nation. The sooner it is reformed the better.

    And absolutely to the suggestion earlier that the culture and recruitment of the Policing needs to be reformed. Too many Police in the US seem to be recruited from ex-military and act as if they're at war on the streets - and at war against black criminals supposedly. The entire mindset is messed up.

    I would suggest root and branch reform but also looking at ensuring more recruitment direct from Colleges (Universities).
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,359
    Apparently one of the Capitol Police officers injured yesterday has died.

    That will change the story some more.
  • https://twitter.com/JonLemire/status/1347311706196873218

    But it is "identity politics" to suggest the Policing was messed up and the rule of law needs to be upheld equally. 🙄
  • kle4 said:

    Who were the ones who lasted from start to finish under Trump? It's probably more than I'd imagine.
    Treasury - Steve Mnuchin
    Agriculture - Sonny Purdue
    Commerce - Wilbur Ross
    Housing & Urban Development - Ben Carson
    Transportation - Elaine Chao (until yesterday when she decided to resign effective 1.11.21)
    Education - Betty DeVos
    Trade Representative - Robert Lighthizer

    NOT an impressive list!, with possible exception of Mnuchin, who looks to be the only one who isn't an embarrassment, a crook or a do-nothing (sometimes all three).
  • Maybe Trumpsky will give him some of his Trumpy Bear money to help pay the lawyers?

    But do NOT bet on it!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,222
    kle4 said:

    She would be perfect for a role in the EU Commission.
    But she wouldn't need to come to work until five to midnight!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,301
    Didn't he cede his time in the debate as a sop to those wanting to put a stop to the theatrics entirely? He was making a performance, not leading a debate or trying to make important points. I have zero doubt he supports what those rioters did yesterday 100%.
  • Precisely.

    Most Brits (it seems from PB) think of BLM as wokeism gone wild. This is NOT the view in the US, for reasons just stated.

    Fact that Black people are at greater risk of targeting and actual harm from police is something that most White people in the United States understand. The death of George Floyd was straw that broke the camel's back.

    Thus strong level of support for BLM - not for rioting and other wretched excesses, but the basic message - has been strong since Floyd's death, and across a wide and often surprising demographic and political spectrum.
    I can't speak for what most Brits think, but I can say that PB is collection of very weird people.
    And who knows, maybe it is a representative sample. But I say with all sincerity, I fucking hope it isn't.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    That's what it looks like. They're in a 'green room' tent waiting for Trump's cue to go on stage.
    Interesting that this message was put out: "any use of “Gloria” by any political candidate, neither implies, nor constitutes, any endorsement of said political candidate on behalf of the late Laura Branigan"
  • kle4 said:

    Man like that will probably love being cancelled unfortunately, regardless of the reason being pretty firm.

    He's in it for the publicity, which is why most politicos "write" (in the broadest sense of the word) "books (ditto).

    Theodore Roosevelt and Winston Churchill were great writers, and (especially WSC) needed the money. But the publicity was paramount, along with desire to "make" their own history, on the page as in life.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,301
    edited January 2021

    I can't speak for what most Brits think, but I can say that PB is collection of very weird people.
    And who knows, maybe it is a representative sample. But I say with all sincerity, I fucking hope it isn't.
    Nonsense, there's no group more on the pulse of the nation and who embodies it more.

    BTW, has no one considered the most terrible restriction of the last year - no thursday night by-elections?
  • NEW THRED
  • New Thread

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Just seen that the R rate in Ireland has gone from 1.1 - 1.3 to 2.4 - 30 in a WEEK
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,876
    edited January 2021

    He's in it for the publicity, which is why most politicos "write" (in the broadest sense of the word) "books (ditto).

    Theodore Roosevelt and Winston Churchill were great writers, and (especially WSC) needed the money. But the publicity was paramount, along with desire to "make" their own history, on the page as in life.
    "History will be kind to me. For I intend to write it."
    WSC.

    Edit. Apparently he didn't say that. But you get the idea...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902
    TimT said:

    To be fair, she is simply reflecting just about every black commentator on any channel yesterday, whose immediate comparator for how the riot was dealt with was BLM protests.

    I think it is easy for white people living in the UK to dismiss how front and centre race and personal security is to black people in the US.

    One of my wife's colleagues, a 6' 3" ex-military physician, who happens to be black, is worried every day he drives to work in deeply rural MD (think more like WV than Bethesda) whether he will be pulled over by the police and, if so, how badly hurt he'll be. My wife suggested that he drive to work in scrubs with his stethoscope around his neck. This is simply something we white people do not even consider, let alone have in the forefront of our minds.
    The comparison, surely, is not with BLM protests in general, but specifically the Washington protest which was met by phalanxes of armed paramilitaries.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902
    dixiedean said:

    "History will be kind to me. For I intend to write it."
    WSC.

    Edit. Apparently he didn't say that. But you get the idea...
    It was most kind to him - his WWII history deal made him a very rich man indeed.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,359
    edited January 2021

    I think there's strong support for it in many elements of across the UK too. I certainly support it and I know a lot of people who do. Witnessing Floyd's death and the countless atrocities seen since - we can be very glad we don't have this in this country, while wanting reform in the USA.

    What passes for the Policing in America is not worthy of a first world nation. The sooner it is reformed the better.

    And absolutely to the suggestion earlier that the culture and recruitment of the Policing needs to be reformed. Too many Police in the US seem to be recruited from ex-military and act as if they're at war on the streets - and at war against black criminals supposedly. The entire mindset is messed up.

    I would suggest root and branch reform but also looking at ensuring more recruitment direct from Colleges (Universities).
    So going to College gives us better police? This is total balls. Policing is a trade, that is taught & learned. You don't need have to have a degree.

    The top and bottom of US policing is that it is extraordinarily decentralised, with multiple police forces even within a small area which leads to fiefdoms being created without sufficient oversight & ability to build effective leadership that a larger structure might enable. Local police are also often crappily paid with the result that those with a bit of wit can do better elsewhere.

    Organisations like the FBI on the other hand, on the whole extremely good.

    BLM movement will not regain any momentum it had in the UK because many of those behind it were using it as a vehicle for issues that had nothing to do with the perceived point of BLM. In short it got hijacked from a single cause and I think that has dawned on many people. It also became a grandstander and somehow a thing that you couldn't criticise without somehow being racist or more generously ignorant. No cause, or its adherents at least, is above criticism.

    From where I sit, I wouldn't support it for those reasons.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,744
    edited January 2021

    I think there's strong support for it in many elements of across the UK too. I certainly support it and I know a lot of people who do. Witnessing Floyd's death and the countless atrocities seen since - we can be very glad we don't have this in this country, while wanting reform in the USA.

    What passes for the Policing in America is not worthy of a first world nation. The sooner it is reformed the better.

    And absolutely to the suggestion earlier that the culture and recruitment of the Policing needs to be reformed. Too many Police in the US seem to be recruited from ex-military and act as if they're at war on the streets - and at war against black criminals supposedly. The entire mindset is messed up.

    I would suggest root and branch reform but also looking at ensuring more recruitment direct from Colleges (Universities).
    I agree with you. There is much more support for the aims of BLM, both here and in the USA, than many of the posters on here think. But it puts you in an interesting position. Because the vast majority of the support for BLM over here comes from Labour, Lib Dem and Green voters, whereas virtually all the hostility comes from Tories and, dare I say it, Brexiteers. You must find it interesting being out of kilter on BLM with the latter groups. I'm not suggesting you're completely alone, but it must be pretty lonely. Good on you, though.
This discussion has been closed.