Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

The loneliness of the long-distance leader – politicalbetting.com

2456789

Comments

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    kle4 said:

    Jesus Christ...I have just stumbled across this...these people must be in a permanent state of offended by everything, everyone, everywhere...

    https://twitter.com/Abebab/status/1311589200773480449?s=19

    I'm unable to grasp what their proposed solution is to the problem they have identified. Oh, there's a lot of words about what needs doing, but I couldn't really follow it.

    Thankfully I did history, and there's no concerns about cultural or structural issues there.
    Apparently worship of the written word is an example of white supremacy culture in academia.

    https://twitter.com/uche_blackstock/status/1213063328572092416

    https://twitter.com/uche_blackstock/status/1213619207868440576
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,858

    The organisational theme in the article is important ; who provides that help is important too, though. A key problem for Starmer is that many of those who do have this organisational experience are not going to provide Starmer with the political route to power ; the electorate is not waiting for 1997 reassurances on Labour, but something quite different. His main problem in that respect is that figures from the 1960s and '70s Soft Left with governmental experience are long since dead.

    It's a good piece from Richard but it is also yet one more example of a popular PB oeuvre - suggestions of what Labour needs to do to win an election from posters who will not be voting Labour.

    I think we are on a promise from Casino for another one soon.
  • HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
  • Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    The Lions tour to South Africa this summer ain't happening is it?

    If I was a competent Rugby Administrator I would be moving the 6Ns to June and saying "fuck the lions tour".

    Instead the Lions committee won't even make a decision till Feb. Only a week or so before the 6N is due to kick off.
    The issue is that financially the tour needs to happen but delaying it to 2022 isn't an option as the national teams don't want a Lions Tour a year before a world cup.
    Financially it is vastly more important for SA that the tour goes ahead than the home nations.

    The choice between a 6N played behind closed doors + a probably cancelled lions tour that they will have wasted money planning vs a 6N with crowds and definitely no lions Tour they don't have to fund seems like a no brainer to me.
    I guess we have to remember we are dealing with the administrators who thought playing Scotland v. France in Edinburgh in March was a good idea.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,858
    Pulpstar said:

    MAGA backers are losing faith, price has headed into 1.02

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.138799270

    LAY BACK!! :smile:
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,461
    edited January 2021
    A thoughtful and well-argued header, with not much to disagree with. Anneliese Dodds is actually very able, and has made some excellent critiques of some of Sunak's measures, including the wasting of public funds; but it is true that this has not cut through at all, so she probably needs replacing.

    One thing I will take issue with on the header, and some of the comments on here. The proposed solution is for Starmer to surround himself with "big beasts" (interesting the nostalgia, even among some Tories, for Campbell, Cook, Mandelson, Blunkett, Straw and others). But these "big beasts" with clout are almost always male, save the odd honourable mention of Yvette Cooper and, more rarely, Rachel Reeves. I find this a bit telling. I'm absolutely sure that Starmer wants a strong female presence in his SC, and ideally a female Shadow Chancellor. This will contrast sharply with the current regime, in which Patel and Truss are the only high-profile women, I think. Bridget Philipson may be one to watch out for (currently shadow secretary to the Treasury).
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.

    Being dull and competent may well work, it has in the past.

    Examples?
    Attlee 1945.

    Wilson 1964.

    Major 1992 might be an inelegant example.
    I didn’t realise Major won from opposition...
    That's why I said it was an inelegant example, but an example where dull and competent beat exciting and personality.
    I think it was more of dull and competent beat embarrassing twatish windbag. Therefore could be a very elegant example.
  • HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.

    Being dull and competent may well work, it has in the past.

    Examples?
    Attlee 1945.

    Wilson 1964.

    Major 1992 might be an inelegant example.
    I think the best comparison is Attlee - a bit dull, but confident enough to surround himself with "big beasts". I don't think Starmer lacks the confidence to have "big beasts" round the table - just the paucity of them in the PLP. Miliband for SCoE would be a good start, and I'd get Cooper (SHS) and Benn onto the front bench too.
    I would keep Thomas Symonds, as a former commercial barrister he is one of the few Shadow Cabinet Ministers more heavyweight than their Cabinet counterparts, in his case Priti Patel
    Just had to google him - which may not be the greatest of starts. In fairness I think Ashworth (Health) has acquitted himself well - asking probing questions, not lurching into an endless TOREEEEES ARE EVILLLLL rant like some of his peers (in several parties).

    Here's the cavalcade of wit & beauty:

    https://labour.org.uk/people/shadow-cabinet-2/
    Though the government isn't exactly overflowing with talented, attractive politicians at the moment...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,295
    MaxPB said:

    The EU’s attempts at securing more doses of the only COVID-19 vaccine it has authorised come amid concern in some capitals that a separate German order for the same shot might compete with broader supplies for the 27-country bloc.

    Germany said on Monday that it had agreed with BioNTech last September to supply an additional 30 million doses on a bilateral basis........

    The bilateral German deal predates by two months the EU contract for the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine that was signed in November after talks that had been going on at least since July.


    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-eu-pfizer-idUKKBN2991WF?taid=5ff353405b2aa000013649c0&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

    The whole EU scheme is such a fucking disaster. One of my italian colleagues is worried that his family back home will be waiting until the end of the year to get jabbed while he'll get it by the end of June.
    It is spicily ironic that probably the single best example of why the EU is a mess and it is maybe best to leave, has come at the moment we finally leave, more than four years after the vote.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Following on from the story TSE linked to about Colchester hospital

    Just been hearing its pretty grim capacity wise right now and the docs around when the arseholes tried to "prove" they were empty might have been a little bit annoyed with their unwanted guests and might have made that pretty clear........
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    MAGA backers are losing faith, price has headed into 1.02

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.138799270

    That was my hundred quid. The pebble that started the avalanche.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,620
    Excellent leader - thank you @Richard_Nabavi

    I’d be interested to hear Richard’s choices for any reshuffle. I would start with Rachel Reeves as ShadChan
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited January 2021
    Wales ITV breaking

    The four nations have agreed to raise the level to 5, the highest level

    Schools in Wales to open on the 18th January
  • RobD said:

    Zoe guy is sceptical on tonight's 8pm announcement:

    https://twitter.com/timspector/status/1346130213382610944

    Whether he likes it or not the numbers are going up everywhere.
    Spector is another of those whose past predictions have turned out pretty badly wrong. Not Gupta-level wrong, but quite wrong.

    I don't have time to collate them all, but for example in October he said that cases weren't surging, in early November he said that the November lockdown wasn't necessary, and in mid December he said that no new restrictions were needed. Those are all pretty clearly contradicted by his current chart.

    I'm afraid I can't set a lot of store by what he says. His app is gathering useful data, though.

    --AS
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    Jesus Christ...I have just stumbled across this...these people must be in a permanent state of offended by everything, everyone, everywhere...

    https://twitter.com/Abebab/status/1311589200773480449?s=19

    I'm unable to grasp what their proposed solution is to the problem they have identified. Oh, there's a lot of words about what needs doing, but I couldn't really follow it.

    Thankfully I did history, and there's no concerns about cultural or structural issues there.
    Apparently worship of the written word is an example of white supremacy culture in academia.

    https://twitter.com/uche_blackstock/status/1213063328572092416

    https://twitter.com/uche_blackstock/status/1213619207868440576
    I can't say I worhsip those written words because I'm baffled - pefectionism and inidividualism are characteristics of white supremacy culture? Is there some wider context that makes that less insulting to non-white people?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,600

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Actually I was referring to her announced retirement from office
    Fair point. Boris and Nippy smashing Covid out of the park. Where is lockdown-loving Shakey Drakey?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    MaxPB said:

    The EU’s attempts at securing more doses of the only COVID-19 vaccine it has authorised come amid concern in some capitals that a separate German order for the same shot might compete with broader supplies for the 27-country bloc.

    Germany said on Monday that it had agreed with BioNTech last September to supply an additional 30 million doses on a bilateral basis........

    The bilateral German deal predates by two months the EU contract for the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine that was signed in November after talks that had been going on at least since July.


    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-eu-pfizer-idUKKBN2991WF?taid=5ff353405b2aa000013649c0&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

    The whole EU scheme is such a fucking disaster. One of my italian colleagues is worried that his family back home will be waiting until the end of the year to get jabbed while he'll get it by the end of June.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/10/uk-poised-to-shun-eu-coronavirus-vaccine-scheme

    Health secretary says government believes there is a quicker way to source a coronavirus vaccine for Britons

    Well, he was right, wasn't he?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    The Lions tour to South Africa this summer ain't happening is it?

    If I was a competent Rugby Administrator I would be moving the 6Ns to June and saying "fuck the lions tour".

    Instead the Lions committee won't even make a decision till Feb. Only a week or so before the 6N is due to kick off.
    The issue is that financially the tour needs to happen but delaying it to 2022 isn't an option as the national teams don't want a Lions Tour a year before a world cup.
    Financially it is vastly more important for SA that the tour goes ahead than the home nations.

    The choice between a 6N played behind closed doors + a probably cancelled lions tour that they will have wasted money planning vs a 6N with crowds and definitely no lions Tour they don't have to fund seems like a no brainer to me.
    I guess we have to remember we are dealing with the administrators who thought playing Scotland v. France in Edinburgh in March was a good idea.
    I did predicate my first post on the ludicrous idea of being a Competent Rugby Administrator.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,589
    rcs1000 said:

    I find it astonishing that to fly to Hawaii from the rest of the US, you need a CV19 PCR negative test from the previous 48 hours. Yet, we don't even impose that.

    PCR negative test 48 hours before (otherwise no flying)
    +
    Antigen prior to boarding (otherwise no flying)
    +
    Antigen at airport on arrival (in case of confirmed positive, entire plane is quarantined in an airport hotel for two weeks)

    That's less intrusive that most places, but would reduce by 99% the number of imported cases.
    It’s not that astonishing at all.

    We have a government made in the image of Johnson’s blithe, inchoate optimism, addicted to the grand gesture (which, to be fair delivered the funding for a vaccine) and completely allergic to anything which approaches dull competence.

    It’s why we squandered 20bn plus on an ineffective test and trace system, and failed to find utility in what ought to be cheap mass testing, which was strangely branded as a £100bn ‘moonshot’.

    And why we still don’t do the basics of quarantine and isolation properly.
  • Floater said:

    Following on from the story TSE linked to about Colchester hospital

    Just been hearing its pretty grim capacity wise right now and the docs around when the arseholes tried to "prove" they were empty might have been a little bit annoyed with their unwanted guests and might have made that pretty clear........

    I'm quite to happy to end my lifelong opposition to the death penalty for arseholes like that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,295

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MAGA backers are losing faith, price has headed into 1.02

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.138799270

    LAY BACK!! :smile:
    I'm only on at 1.03 myself :D

    Here's my vid on the bet (And the remainder of the election)..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7OAgppkPV0
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited January 2021

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    They will definitely be held in May even if all postal, if the US can hold its Presidential and Congressional elections in November the local elections will definitely go ahead in May.

    The District and London elections have already been delayed one year, they cannot possibly be delayed again, already large numbers of council seats are vacant because of postponed by elections
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited January 2021

    A thoughtful and well-argued header, with not much to disagree with. Anneliese Dodds is actually very able, and has made some excellent critiques of some of Sunak's measures, including the wasting of public funds; but it is true that this has not cut through at all, so she probably needs replacing.

    One thing I will take issue with on the header, and some of the comments on here. The proposed solution is for Starmer to surround himself with "big beasts" (interesting the nostalgia, even among some Tories, for Campbell, Cook, Mandelson, Blunkett, Straw and others). But these "big beasts" with clout are almost always male, save the odd honourable mention of Yvette Cooper and, more rarely, Rachel Reeves. I find this a bit telling. I'm absolutely sure that Starmer wants a strong female presence in his SC, and ideally a female Shadow Chancellor. This will contrast sharply with the current regime, in which Patel and Truss are the only high-profile women, I think. Bridget Philipson may be one to watch out for (currently shadow secretary to the Treasury).

    I would say, as below, that a key problem for Starmer is that taking counsel from those older beasts would be likely to provide Starmer with the right organisational answers mixed with doubtful political ones. I haven't seen any sign from most of that era of New Labour politicians that they understand why New Labour expired. "Because populism" isn't the answer, but some of the less organisationally experienced but more academically curious people helping Miliband did look like they were getting nearer ; hopefully Starmer will use some of them again.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited January 2021

    Zoe guy is sceptical on tonight's 8pm announcement:

    https://twitter.com/timspector/status/1346130213382610944

    For a guy with such a treasure trove of real-time data he does seem to get it wrong time and time and time again.
  • Surely any opinion poll at a time when vast numbers of households have people being paid 80% of their wage, having not worked for nearly a year, are going to be vastly more supportive of the government than when vast numbers of households have people who have lost their jobs and are reliant upon Universal Credit.

    Come back in 12months when furlough is long gone and the economic impact of the last 12months has bitten.
  • Wales ITV news saying restrictions to remain for three months but reopening of schools will be a priority
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,295

    Wales ITV news saying restrictions to remain for three months but reopening of schools will be a priority

    THREE MONTHS. That takes us to early April??!!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,626
    Alistair said:

    Zoe guy is sceptical on tonight's 8pm announcement:

    https://twitter.com/timspector/status/1346130213382610944

    For a guy with such a treasure trove of real-time data he does seem to get it wrong time and time and time again.
    Making judgements at the moment is being stuffed up by the Christmas Effect. Which will effect all data gathering methods, in various ways....

    I would take any claim of levelling off with the entire contents of the Dead Sea....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Surely any opinion poll at a time when vast numbers of households have people being paid 80% of their wage, having not worked for nearly a year, are going to be vastly more supportive of the government than when vast numbers of households have people who have lost their jobs and are reliant upon Universal Credit.

    Come back in 12months when furlough is long gone and the economic impact of the last 12months has bitten.

    I suspect if and when government support noticable declines, it will be in a sudden rush rather than incremental.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    The organisational theme in the article is important ; who provides that help is important too, though. A key problem for Starmer is that many of those who do have this organisational experience are not going to provide Starmer with the political route to power ; the electorate is not waiting for 1997 reassurances on Labour, but something quite different. His main problem in that respect is that figures from the 1960s and '70s Soft Left with governmental experience are long since dead.

    Lord Hattersley is still alive I believe aged 88 and he was a Minister in Wilson and Callaghan's governments
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Surely any opinion poll at a time when vast numbers of households have people being paid 80% of their wage, having not worked for nearly a year, are going to be vastly more supportive of the government than when vast numbers of households have people who have lost their jobs and are reliant upon Universal Credit.

    Come back in 12months when furlough is long gone and the economic impact of the last 12months has bitten.

    Bingo. Outstanding post.


  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited January 2021
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    They will be held, these restrictions are only likely to last 3 months and if the vaccinations have not begun to take effect and reduce the caserate by May then we will all be in trouble.

    If the US can hold a Presidential election in November despite Covid it would be absolutely pathetic for us to postpone our local and devolved elections again
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited January 2021
    HYUFD said:

    The organisational theme in the article is important ; who provides that help is important too, though. A key problem for Starmer is that many of those who do have this organisational experience are not going to provide Starmer with the political route to power ; the electorate is not waiting for 1997 reassurances on Labour, but something quite different. His main problem in that respect is that figures from the 1960s and '70s Soft Left with governmental experience are long since dead.

    Lord Hattersley is still alive I believe aged 88 and he was a Minister in Wilson and Callaghan's governments
    Not at an age to serve, though, really ; he also went somewhat native in the early part of the Blair years, as I remember, but then pursued a more independent stance reminiscent of the '60s.
  • Oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.

    Being dull and competent may well work, it has in the past.

    It has in the past? I'm really struggling to think of a single dull and competent LotO who has taken over from a losing government.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    dr_spyn said:
    Nice of them to let her have a Christmas holiday before dropping that bomb.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,620
    kinabalu said:

    The organisational theme in the article is important ; who provides that help is important too, though. A key problem for Starmer is that many of those who do have this organisational experience are not going to provide Starmer with the political route to power ; the electorate is not waiting for 1997 reassurances on Labour, but something quite different. His main problem in that respect is that figures from the 1960s and '70s Soft Left with governmental experience are long since dead.

    It's a good piece from Richard but it is also yet one more example of a popular PB oeuvre - suggestions of what Labour needs to do to win an election from posters who will not be voting Labour.

    I think we are on a promise from Casino for another one soon.
    Tuc
    kinabalu said:

    The organisational theme in the article is important ; who provides that help is important too, though. A key problem for Starmer is that many of those who do have this organisational experience are not going to provide Starmer with the political route to power ; the electorate is not waiting for 1997 reassurances on Labour, but something quite different. His main problem in that respect is that figures from the 1960s and '70s Soft Left with governmental experience are long since dead.

    It's a good piece from Richard but it is also yet one more example of a popular PB oeuvre - suggestions of what Labour needs to do to win an election from posters who will not be voting Labour.

    I think we are on a promise from Casino for another one soon.
    Richard is centre-right but has said on here a number of times that he would consider voting for Sir Keir.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    Leon said:

    Wales ITV news saying restrictions to remain for three months but reopening of schools will be a priority

    THREE MONTHS. That takes us to early April??!!
    I am due to get married in late March, looks like may have to be postponed (having a Thanksgiving Service in July by which time I hope we are back to relative normality)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,295
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    They will be held, these restrictions are only likely to last 3 months and if the vaccinations have not begun to take effect and reduce the caserate by May then we will all be in trouble.

    If the US can hold a Presidential election in November despite Covid it would be absolutely pathetic for us to postpone our local and devolved elections again
    Well, that's what I mean. It is possible (if unlikely) that the virus will still be rampant in May. If that happens could you hold a General Election in Scotland? I don't see how.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    They will definitely be held in May even if all postal, if the US can hold its Presidential and Congressional elections in November the local elections will definitely go ahead in May.

    The District and London elections have already been delayed one year, they cannot possibly be delayed again, already large numbers of council seats are vacant because of postponed by elections
    They can't be made all-postal at the last minute. The decision needs to be made ahead of time - probably also with some thought to enabling campaigning that doesn't involve leaflet deliveries.

    Surprised they haven't announced that in Scotland already. They've given themselves the option of postponing the Holyrood election by six months.
  • HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    They will be held, these restrictions are only likely to last 3 months and if the vaccinations have not begun to take effect and reduce the caserate by May then we will all be in trouble.

    If the US can hold a Presidential election in November despite Covid it would be absolutely pathetic for us to postpone our local and devolved elections again
    You simply cannot say they will be held but you hope they are held

    We are in unchartered territory

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,858
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Jesus Christ...I have just stumbled across this...these people must be in a permanent state of offended by everything, everyone, everywhere...

    https://twitter.com/Abebab/status/1311589200773480449?s=19

    I'm unable to grasp what their proposed solution is to the problem they have identified. Oh, there's a lot of words about what needs doing, but I couldn't really follow it.

    Thankfully I did history, and there's no concerns about cultural or structural issues there.
    Apparently worship of the written word is an example of white supremacy culture in academia.

    https://twitter.com/uche_blackstock/status/1213063328572092416

    https://twitter.com/uche_blackstock/status/1213619207868440576
    I can't say I worhsip those written words because I'm baffled - pefectionism and inidividualism are characteristics of white supremacy culture? Is there some wider context that makes that less insulting to non-white people?
    There is a context, yes. But also it isn't prima facie insulting to non-white people because perfectionism and individualism are not slam dunk positive qualities. Both can be toxic. In fact if you just immediately assume that these 2 things ARE necessarily virtues you are providing some credence to the narrative you and so many others are so keen to lampoon.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Why does Dunt consistently use bad language in his tweets

    He really does himself no favours
    My theory is that having a surname that rhymes with a particularly bad word meant that he was referred to using said word relentlessly as a child and has become desensitised as a result.
    Swearing doesn't bother me, but then I grew up in Fife.
    My wife’s name makes @TheScreamingEagles giggle like a maniac
  • dr_spyn said:
    It was already effectively over, to be fair. Like Jared O'Mara in the last Parliament, she's been staying on for the pay cheques.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    They will be held, these restrictions are only likely to last 3 months and if the vaccinations have not begun to take effect and reduce the caserate by May then we will all be in trouble.

    If the US can hold a Presidential election in November despite Covid it would be absolutely pathetic for us to postpone our local and devolved elections again
    You simply cannot say they will be held but you hope they are held

    We are in unchartered territory

    Uncharted, please.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
    kle4 said:

    dr_spyn said:
    Nice of them to let her have a Christmas holiday before dropping that bomb.
    The timing is interesting, unless I am being unduly cynical.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited January 2021

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    They will be held, these restrictions are only likely to last 3 months and if the vaccinations have not begun to take effect and reduce the caserate by May then we will all be in trouble.

    If the US can hold a Presidential election in November despite Covid it would be absolutely pathetic for us to postpone our local and devolved elections again
    You simply cannot say they will be held but you hope they are held

    We are in unchartered territory

    If the virus has not abated by May, with defcon lockdowns AND vaccinations I think that 'uncharted territory' is somewhat understating it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited January 2021

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    They will be held, these restrictions are only likely to last 3 months and if the vaccinations have not begun to take effect and reduce the caserate by May then we will all be in trouble.

    If the US can hold a Presidential election in November despite Covid it would be absolutely pathetic for us to postpone our local and devolved elections again
    You simply cannot say they will be held but you hope they are held

    We are in unchartered territory

    They will be held, I repeat the US held an election in November despite Covid with 150 million voters, if we cannot even hold local elections with a tiny fraction of that in May even if all postal it would be a national humiliation and leave large numbers of voters unrepresented
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    already large numbers of council seats are vacant because of postponed by elections

    Who cares?
  • IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    They will be held, these restrictions are only likely to last 3 months and if the vaccinations have not begun to take effect and reduce the caserate by May then we will all be in trouble.

    If the US can hold a Presidential election in November despite Covid it would be absolutely pathetic for us to postpone our local and devolved elections again
    You simply cannot say they will be held but you hope they are held

    We are in unchartered territory

    Uncharted, please.
    You are so correct, thank you
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    They will definitely be held in May even if all postal, if the US can hold its Presidential and Congressional elections in November the local elections will definitely go ahead in May.

    The District and London elections have already been delayed one year, they cannot possibly be delayed again, already large numbers of council seats are vacant because of postponed by elections
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    They will be held, these restrictions are only likely to last 3 months and if the vaccinations have not begun to take effect and reduce the caserate by May then we will all be in trouble.

    If the US can hold a Presidential election in November despite Covid it would be absolutely pathetic for us to postpone our local and devolved elections again
    Our Council's Election Officer definite they will take place when I spoke with him this afternoon. All-postal apparently ruled out. Primary legislation required and concerns over printer capacity for all the postal vote paraphenalia. He sounded very concerned about a late rush of PV applications though.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,858
    edited January 2021

    kinabalu said:

    The organisational theme in the article is important ; who provides that help is important too, though. A key problem for Starmer is that many of those who do have this organisational experience are not going to provide Starmer with the political route to power ; the electorate is not waiting for 1997 reassurances on Labour, but something quite different. His main problem in that respect is that figures from the 1960s and '70s Soft Left with governmental experience are long since dead.

    It's a good piece from Richard but it is also yet one more example of a popular PB oeuvre - suggestions of what Labour needs to do to win an election from posters who will not be voting Labour.

    I think we are on a promise from Casino for another one soon.
    Richard is centre-right but has said on here a number of times that he would consider voting for Sir Keir.
    Really? Ok so I take it back in this case then. Bum rap.

    Sorry Richard. Vote Labour!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited January 2021
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    They will be held, these restrictions are only likely to last 3 months and if the vaccinations have not begun to take effect and reduce the caserate by May then we will all be in trouble.

    If the US can hold a Presidential election in November despite Covid it would be absolutely pathetic for us to postpone our local and devolved elections again
    Well, that's what I mean. It is possible (if unlikely) that the virus will still be rampant in May. If that happens could you hold a General Election in Scotland? I don't see how.
    Covid was around in November in the US with more cases than in Scotland and they held the election anyway, even if all postal it is possible
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    HYUFD said:

    already large numbers of council seats are vacant because of postponed by elections

    Who cares?
    It's an interesting question. How many vacant seats is acceptable. 5%, 10%.. 50%?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    already large numbers of council seats are vacant because of postponed by elections

    Who cares?
    It's an interesting question. How many vacant seats is acceptable. 5%, 10%.. 50%?
    100% :D
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    They will be held, these restrictions are only likely to last 3 months and if the vaccinations have not begun to take effect and reduce the caserate by May then we will all be in trouble.

    If the US can hold a Presidential election in November despite Covid it would be absolutely pathetic for us to postpone our local and devolved elections again
    You simply cannot say they will be held but you hope they are held

    We are in unchartered territory

    They will be held, I repeat the US held an election in November despite Covid with 150 million voters, if we cannot even hold local elections with a tiny fraction of that in May even if all postal it would be a national humiliation and leave large numbers of voters unrepresented
    Also, a government desperate to avoid any kind of voter verdict whatever.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited January 2021
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Jesus Christ...I have just stumbled across this...these people must be in a permanent state of offended by everything, everyone, everywhere...

    https://twitter.com/Abebab/status/1311589200773480449?s=19

    I'm unable to grasp what their proposed solution is to the problem they have identified. Oh, there's a lot of words about what needs doing, but I couldn't really follow it.

    Thankfully I did history, and there's no concerns about cultural or structural issues there.
    Apparently worship of the written word is an example of white supremacy culture in academia.

    https://twitter.com/uche_blackstock/status/1213063328572092416

    https://twitter.com/uche_blackstock/status/1213619207868440576
    I can't say I worhsip those written words because I'm baffled - pefectionism and inidividualism are characteristics of white supremacy culture? Is there some wider context that makes that less insulting to non-white people?
    There is a context, yes. But also it isn't prima facie insulting to non-white people because perfectionism and individualism are not slam dunk positive qualities. Both can be toxic. In fact if you just immediately assume that these 2 things ARE necessarily virtues you are providing some credence to the narrative you and so many others are so keen to lampoon.
    I wasn't lampooning them, I asked a question because whether they are virtues or not - and whilst both can be toxic, so can virutally anything, so that means nothing - I am confused at the idea they must be white supremacy characteristics. The perceived insult I saw was not that they are always positive - though I do think more positive than not - but because I was confused at the idea that as a positive or negative they are predominantly white.

    I asked for context precisely because I assumed there was more to it than merely the tweet, so up yours for assuming it was lampooning - why did you jump to that conclusion when my words said nothing of the kind?

    How is someone supposed to ask for context, if they get insulted for doing so?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    They will definitely be held in May even if all postal, if the US can hold its Presidential and Congressional elections in November the local elections will definitely go ahead in May.

    The District and London elections have already been delayed one year, they cannot possibly be delayed again, already large numbers of council seats are vacant because of postponed by elections
    They can't be made all-postal at the last minute. The decision needs to be made ahead of time - probably also with some thought to enabling campaigning that doesn't involve leaflet deliveries.

    Surprised they haven't announced that in Scotland already. They've given themselves the option of postponing the Holyrood election by six months.
    Don't see why you cannot still leaflet deliver, if you can still get post you can get leaflets still
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,589

    A thoughtful and well-argued header, with not much to disagree with. Anneliese Dodds is actually very able, and has made some excellent critiques of some of Sunak's measures, including the wasting of public funds; but it is true that this has not cut through at all, so she probably needs replacing.

    One thing I will take issue with on the header, and some of the comments on here. The proposed solution is for Starmer to surround himself with "big beasts" (interesting the nostalgia, even among some Tories, for Campbell, Cook, Mandelson, Blunkett, Straw and others). But these "big beasts" with clout are almost always male, save the odd honourable mention of Yvette Cooper and, more rarely, Rachel Reeves. I find this a bit telling. I'm absolutely sure that Starmer wants a strong female presence in his SC, and ideally a female Shadow Chancellor. This will contrast sharply with the current regime, in which Patel and Truss are the only high-profile women, I think. Bridget Philipson may be one to watch out for (currently shadow secretary to the Treasury).

    Ironically, Dodds would probably have been a very good appointment as shadow chief secretary.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    They will be held, these restrictions are only likely to last 3 months and if the vaccinations have not begun to take effect and reduce the caserate by May then we will all be in trouble.

    If the US can hold a Presidential election in November despite Covid it would be absolutely pathetic for us to postpone our local and devolved elections again
    You simply cannot say they will be held but you hope they are held

    We are in unchartered territory

    They will be held, I repeat the US held an election in November despite Covid with 150 million voters, if we cannot even hold local elections with a tiny fraction of that in May even if all postal it would be a national humiliation and leave large numbers of voters unrepresented
    Again you are a hostage to fortune
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    already large numbers of council seats are vacant because of postponed by elections

    Who cares?
    Those who already have no councillor to contact as they have died or resigned and no by election allowed
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684

    The Lions tour to South Africa this summer ain't happening is it?

    Not unless they are mentally deranged
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    France hits 1,001 deaths/million

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    They will definitely be held in May even if all postal, if the US can hold its Presidential and Congressional elections in November the local elections will definitely go ahead in May.

    The District and London elections have already been delayed one year, they cannot possibly be delayed again, already large numbers of council seats are vacant because of postponed by elections
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    They will be held, these restrictions are only likely to last 3 months and if the vaccinations have not begun to take effect and reduce the caserate by May then we will all be in trouble.

    If the US can hold a Presidential election in November despite Covid it would be absolutely pathetic for us to postpone our local and devolved elections again
    Our Council's Election Officer definite they will take place when I spoke with him this afternoon. All-postal apparently ruled out. Primary legislation required and concerns over printer capacity for all the postal vote paraphenalia. He sounded very concerned about a late rush of PV applications though.
    The US was of course not all postal in the end either, though more voters voted by post, especially Democrats
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Big day for Boris tommorow - mega unwind tuesday
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    ISTR they were postponed for a whole year because the government in London wanted to use that slot for its own elections. I think when the fixed term act was brought in? Memory is a bit dim on that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,626
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MAGA backers are losing faith, price has headed into 1.02

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.138799270

    That was my hundred quid. The pebble that started the avalanche.
    "The avalanche has begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    They will be held, these restrictions are only likely to last 3 months and if the vaccinations have not begun to take effect and reduce the caserate by May then we will all be in trouble.

    If the US can hold a Presidential election in November despite Covid it would be absolutely pathetic for us to postpone our local and devolved elections again
    You simply cannot say they will be held but you hope they are held

    We are in unchartered territory

    They will be held, I repeat the US held an election in November despite Covid with 150 million voters, if we cannot even hold local elections with a tiny fraction of that in May even if all postal it would be a national humiliation and leave large numbers of voters unrepresented
    Again you are a hostage to fortune
    No, they will be held.

    With the vaccination programme well underway by then there is absolutely zero excuse for them not to be, the US even held its elections in November despite not having had any vaccinations at that stage at all
  • Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    The EU’s attempts at securing more doses of the only COVID-19 vaccine it has authorised come amid concern in some capitals that a separate German order for the same shot might compete with broader supplies for the 27-country bloc.

    Germany said on Monday that it had agreed with BioNTech last September to supply an additional 30 million doses on a bilateral basis........

    The bilateral German deal predates by two months the EU contract for the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine that was signed in November after talks that had been going on at least since July.


    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-eu-pfizer-idUKKBN2991WF?taid=5ff353405b2aa000013649c0&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

    The whole EU scheme is such a fucking disaster. One of my italian colleagues is worried that his family back home will be waiting until the end of the year to get jabbed while he'll get it by the end of June.
    It is spicily ironic that probably the single best example of why the EU is a mess and it is maybe best to leave, has come at the moment we finally leave, more than four years after the vote.
    Though it isn't much of an example, except in the wet dreams of Brexiteers who are oh so desperate to find something positive about the stupidity known as Brexit. The only reason why UK has any advantage is because we had a very good regulatory body (MHRA) that managed, through it's very good relationship with the pharma sector to speed up regulatory approval. The MHRA was widely recognised in the EU as the regulatory model and it followed EU safety and efficacy protocols that it helped to design when evaluating the approval process. That speedy response would still have happened (sorry to disappoint you) had we still been members of the EU. Also we have been helped by having a very strong pharma industry in the UK, including AZ domiciled here. It chose to be domiciled here at the time, partly because it's part UK heritage, but also because we were part of the EU.

    Bozo and his team of lightweights will no doubt try to pick up any reflected glory that they can steal from the scientists who developed the vaccines, but there has been zero benefit to the UK in our recent retreat from engagement with the EU.

    You will need to keep looking for a benefit for Brexit. Good luck because even Bozo himself could not think of any genuine benefits when recently asked by Andrew Marr.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    already large numbers of council seats are vacant because of postponed by elections

    Who cares?
    Those who already have no councillor to contact as they have died or resigned and no by election allowed
    If they have died why would they want to contact a councillor?
  • Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    Having it in the week of the Scotland v England match in the Euros would be ... interesting.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    already large numbers of council seats are vacant because of postponed by elections

    Who cares?
    Those who already have no councillor to contact as they have died or resigned and no by election allowed
    If they have died why would they want to contact a councillor?
    They would normally have had a by election by now and a replacement councillor
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    The EU’s attempts at securing more doses of the only COVID-19 vaccine it has authorised come amid concern in some capitals that a separate German order for the same shot might compete with broader supplies for the 27-country bloc.

    Germany said on Monday that it had agreed with BioNTech last September to supply an additional 30 million doses on a bilateral basis........

    The bilateral German deal predates by two months the EU contract for the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine that was signed in November after talks that had been going on at least since July.


    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-eu-pfizer-idUKKBN2991WF?taid=5ff353405b2aa000013649c0&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

    The whole EU scheme is such a fucking disaster. One of my italian colleagues is worried that his family back home will be waiting until the end of the year to get jabbed while he'll get it by the end of June.
    It is spicily ironic that probably the single best example of why the EU is a mess and it is maybe best to leave, has come at the moment we finally leave, more than four years after the vote.
    Though it isn't much of an example, except in the wet dreams of Brexiteers who are oh so desperate to find something positive about the stupidity known as Brexit. The only reason why UK has any advantage is because we had a very good regulatory body (MHRA) that managed, through it's very good relationship with the pharma sector to speed up regulatory approval. The MHRA was widely recognised in the EU as the regulatory model and it followed EU safety and efficacy protocols that it helped to design when evaluating the approval process. That speedy response would still have happened (sorry to disappoint you) had we still been members of the EU. Also we have been helped by having a very strong pharma industry in the UK, including AZ domiciled here. It chose to be domiciled here at the time, partly because it's part UK heritage, but also because we were part of the EU.

    Bozo and his team of lightweights will no doubt try to pick up any reflected glory that they can steal from the scientists who developed the vaccines, but there has been zero benefit to the UK in our recent retreat from engagement with the EU.

    You will need to keep looking for a benefit for Brexit. Good luck because even Bozo himself could not think of any genuine benefits when recently asked by Andrew Marr.
    What have vaccine delivery contracts got to do with the MHRA?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,094

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.

    Being dull and competent may well work, it has in the past.

    Examples?
    Attlee 1945.

    Wilson 1964.

    Major 1992 might be an inelegant example.
    I didn’t realise Major won from opposition...
    That's why I said it was an inelegant example, but an example where dull and competent beat exciting and personality.
    The opposition in residence, not the opposition in exile 😉
  • Last time we were welded into our cages (was it really three weeks ago?) Boris made a show of emphasising harmonious decision-making with Scotland, Wales and NI. Have we now reverted to a four nations lockdown kick-about?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,157

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    Having it in the week of the Scotland v England match in the Euros would be ... interesting.
    I don't think the English fans would even notice it was on. The Scottish elections I mean.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684
    Floater said:

    Following on from the story TSE linked to about Colchester hospital

    Just been hearing its pretty grim capacity wise right now and the docs around when the arseholes tried to "prove" they were empty might have been a little bit annoyed with their unwanted guests and might have made that pretty clear........

    My local NHS area Ayrshire and Arran are running at 96% capacity for covid today
  • This perfectly captures Johnson's cheerful, unashamed opportunism.
  • tlg86 said:

    Oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.

    Being dull and competent may well work, it has in the past.

    Examples?
    Attlee 1945.

    Wilson 1964.

    Major 1992 might be an inelegant example.
    Someone else already made the point that Major wasn't the opposition but I'd go further - neither was Attlee really.

    Attlee wasn't meaningfully the opposition since 1940.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    ISTR they were postponed for a whole year because the government in London wanted to use that slot for its own elections. I think when the fixed term act was brought in? Memory is a bit dim on that.
    Be excellent for Independence if Westminster try to postpone the election. One can but hope they really are that stupid.
  • Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    Having it in the week of the Scotland v England match in the Euros would be ... interesting.
    I expect the Euros to be cancelled
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    tlg86 said:

    Oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.

    Being dull and competent may well work, it has in the past.

    Examples?
    Attlee 1945.

    Wilson 1964.

    Major 1992 might be an inelegant example.
    Someone else already made the point that Major wasn't the opposition but I'd go further - neither was Attlee really.

    Attlee wasn't meaningfully the opposition since 1940.
    Biden although genial is less charismatic than Trump, 2020 was probably the first time the less charismatic candidate has won a US presidential election since 1968.

    Hollande in France when he beat the more charismatic Sarkozy in 2012 another non UK example not that long ago
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2021
    Pier Moron didn't bother to follow the guidance....can't miss that Caribbean holiday. And of course his son, who he makes excuses for has been bending the rules again to snapping point.

    https://order-order.com/2021/01/04/exclusive-piers-morgan-did-not-follow-the-governments-tier-3-covid-advice-when-he-went-on-christmas-caribbean-holiday/

    Can we get him on a telly and get members of the public to zoom in and just shout at him for 5 mins about what a massive hypocrite he is?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    They will definitely be held in May even if all postal, if the US can hold its Presidential and Congressional elections in November the local elections will definitely go ahead in May.

    The District and London elections have already been delayed one year, they cannot possibly be delayed again, already large numbers of council seats are vacant because of postponed by elections
    They can't be made all-postal at the last minute. The decision needs to be made ahead of time - probably also with some thought to enabling campaigning that doesn't involve leaflet deliveries.

    Surprised they haven't announced that in Scotland already. They've given themselves the option of postponing the Holyrood election by six months.
    Don't see why you cannot still leaflet deliver, if you can still get post you can get leaflets still
    Because you might just get clobbered by someone keen to socially distance their garden path. People generally cut their postie and milkman some slack. Not politicos.
  • Oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.

    Being dull and competent may well work, it has in the past.

    It has in the past? I'm really struggling to think of a single dull and competent LotO who has taken over from a losing government.
    The wartime coalition makes Attlee exceptional, otherwise you'd have to say him.
  • malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    ISTR they were postponed for a whole year because the government in London wanted to use that slot for its own elections. I think when the fixed term act was brought in? Memory is a bit dim on that.
    Be excellent for Independence if Westminster try to postpone the election. One can but hope they really are that stupid.
    Nicola will be the one cancelling it not Westminster
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,921
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    already large numbers of council seats are vacant because of postponed by elections

    Who cares?
    Those who already have no councillor to contact as they have died or resigned and no by election allowed
    If they have died why would they want to contact a councillor?
    They would normally have had a by election by now and a replacement councillor
    I believe there are about 290 council vacancies at the moment. I've heard one suggestion that if the elections in May are postponed the defending party would nominate a replacement. Not sure where that leaves Independents.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited January 2021

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    Having it in the week of the Scotland v England match in the Euros would be ... interesting.
    I expect the Euros to be cancelled
    Oh for goodness sake BigG, shall we just cancel all human life for this year too and decide to shut ourselves up for the rest of the year already.

    If the vaccinations have not significantly reduced the case rate by Spring and lockdowns are still ongoing I expect the level of non compliance will start to rise, especially amongst the young, they are not going to accept being confined to their residences for the rest of their lives. That is especially the case given Covid is a disease of no real threat to the under 50s even in the mutant faster spreading form unless they have a pre existing condition.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    Pier Moron didn't bother to follow the guidance....can't miss that Caribbean holiday. And of course his son, who he makes excuses for has been bending the rules again to snapping point.

    https://order-order.com/2021/01/04/exclusive-piers-morgan-did-not-follow-the-governments-tier-3-covid-advice-when-he-went-on-christmas-caribbean-holiday/

    There's been barely a whisper amongst journalists regarding foreign travel. Is it because none of them can bare to go without an essential break in the sun ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    Pier Moron didn't bother to follow the guidance....can't miss that Caribbean holiday. And of course his son, who he makes excuses for has been bending the rules again to snapping point.

    https://order-order.com/2021/01/04/exclusive-piers-morgan-did-not-follow-the-governments-tier-3-covid-advice-when-he-went-on-christmas-caribbean-holiday/

    There's been barely a whisper amongst journalists regarding foreign travel. Is it because none of them can bare to go without an essential break in the sun ?
    Its like them all getting outraged at Michael Gove doing the old charlie....never ever been heard of among media types. Pure as the driven snow, well plenty of snow.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    It must be within the realms of the possible that the Holyrood elex will be postponed
    ISTR they were postponed for a whole year because the government in London wanted to use that slot for its own elections. I think when the fixed term act was brought in? Memory is a bit dim on that.
    Be excellent for Independence if Westminster try to postpone the election. One can but hope they really are that stupid.
    Nicola will be the one cancelling it not Westminster
    I doubt if she can without a vote in Westminster.
  • Oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.

    Being dull and competent may well work, it has in the past.

    It has in the past? I'm really struggling to think of a single dull and competent LotO who has taken over from a losing government.
    The wartime coalition makes Attlee exceptional, otherwise you'd have to say him.
    I was hoping TSE would say Cameron.
  • kinabalu said:

    The organisational theme in the article is important ; who provides that help is important too, though. A key problem for Starmer is that many of those who do have this organisational experience are not going to provide Starmer with the political route to power ; the electorate is not waiting for 1997 reassurances on Labour, but something quite different. His main problem in that respect is that figures from the 1960s and '70s Soft Left with governmental experience are long since dead.

    It's a good piece from Richard but it is also yet one more example of a popular PB oeuvre - suggestions of what Labour needs to do to win an election from posters who will not be voting Labour.

    I think we are on a promise from Casino for another one soon.
    Except that Richard is one of those ex-Tories who is disillusioned with the direction of the party that used to be known as Conservative. There will be many such people that Starmer will need to persuade to lend their vote to him, or perhaps vote LD or just stay at home. This was how Blair was successful. He managed to convince many moderate Tories that he was not a threat. I suspect that many people stayed loyal to the blue brand at the last election because team Corbyn was even more terrifying than the prospect of a joke government under Bozo.

    On your last point I think you may be forgiven for completely ignoring any views from Casino !
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    This article details some of the contingency plans for the Holyrood election that the Scottish Parliament have considered:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-54973251

  • HYUFD said:

    The organisational theme in the article is important ; who provides that help is important too, though. A key problem for Starmer is that many of those who do have this organisational experience are not going to provide Starmer with the political route to power ; the electorate is not waiting for 1997 reassurances on Labour, but something quite different. His main problem in that respect is that figures from the 1960s and '70s Soft Left with governmental experience are long since dead.

    Lord Hattersley is still alive I believe aged 88 and he was a Minister in Wilson and Callaghan's governments
    Not at an age to serve, though, really ; he also went somewhat native in the early part of the Blair years, as I remember, but then pursued a more independent stance reminiscent of the '60s.
    Last time I saw Roy (at the Edinburgh book festival a couple of years ago), he was frail, as you would expect for a man of fairly advanced years. Still managed to do a full hour, including a Q and A, he did have to have a sit down though.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,626
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Jesus Christ...I have just stumbled across this...these people must be in a permanent state of offended by everything, everyone, everywhere...

    https://twitter.com/Abebab/status/1311589200773480449?s=19

    I'm unable to grasp what their proposed solution is to the problem they have identified. Oh, there's a lot of words about what needs doing, but I couldn't really follow it.

    Thankfully I did history, and there's no concerns about cultural or structural issues there.
    Apparently worship of the written word is an example of white supremacy culture in academia.

    https://twitter.com/uche_blackstock/status/1213063328572092416

    https://twitter.com/uche_blackstock/status/1213619207868440576
    I can't say I worhsip those written words because I'm baffled - pefectionism and inidividualism are characteristics of white supremacy culture? Is there some wider context that makes that less insulting to non-white people?
    There is a context, yes. But also it isn't prima facie insulting to non-white people because perfectionism and individualism are not slam dunk positive qualities. Both can be toxic. In fact if you just immediately assume that these 2 things ARE necessarily virtues you are providing some credence to the narrative you and so many others are so keen to lampoon.
    I wasn't lampooning them, I asked a question because whether they are virtues or not - and whilst both can be toxic, so can virutally anything, so that means nothing - I am confused at the idea they must be white supremacy characteristics. The perceived insult I saw was not that they are always positive - though I do think more positive than not - but because I was confused at the idea that as a positive or negative they are predominantly white.

    I asked for context precisely because I assumed there was more to it than merely the tweet, so up yours for assuming it was lampooning - why did you jump to that conclusion when my words said nothing of the kind?

    How is someone supposed to ask for context, if they get insulted for doing so?
    I am also quite cynical about people stating that "individualism" is a Western problem.

    Having lived through the 80s, where various lefties stated on TV that "individualism" was a problem... and that if the dissidents in Russia, Poland etc, could only overcome their individualism, they would love the joy joy nature of Communism.

    Also that democracy was not suitable for Africa (according to the same people) - apparently African dictators were more democratic than democracy.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT



    Has he told Drakeford

    It is obvious that no one -- least of all SKS -- tells Drakeford anything.

    The disparity between Starmer's proclamations & Drakeford's actions are so glaring that the only explanation is that Labour have completely forgotten that they are running Wales.

    Possibly Labour have been running Wales for so long, they just think it is the place where they can mooch around in flip-flops and nothing ever gets done there.

    It is very common. OGH was earlier fulminating about the folly of keeping the schools open.

    Apparently OGH is unaware that the last LibDem in power anywhere (darling Kirsty) is actually in charge of the Welsh education portfolio, and is busy keeping the schools in Wales open.

    I have given up expecting any consistency between what English Labour and LibDem politicians say, and what their representatives in the Welsh Government actually do.
    I totally agree and of course Kirsty, the Liberal Democrat, is the one in charge of schools but not for much longer thankfully
    Yes, dear, dim Kirsty will be gone, retiring.

    She will be going on to do whatever failed LibDems go on to do.

    Posting on pb.com, probably. :)
    I think BigG. was alluding to the new Conservative Ed. Sec. in Paul Davies' first cabinet. Not beyond the realms of probability.

    Starmer's defeat in Wales will not look good against a resurgent Johnson and the Conservatives nationally, post Brexit, and post vaccine.
    Any Labour defeat or more likely seats lost in Wales will be down to Drakeford, as poor performance for SLab in Scotland can be blamed on Leonard, both are Corbynites so not part of the Starmer project.

    Starmer however is likely to make gains in England though regardless, for example last time the county council seats were up in 2017 the Tories were 11% ahead, even with Deltapoll's post Deal poll today they are only 5% ahead. Labour are also likely to win big in London in both the Mayoral and Assembly polls
    They may not be held in may
    They will definitely be held in May even if all postal, if the US can hold its Presidential and Congressional elections in November the local elections will definitely go ahead in May.

    The District and London elections have already been delayed one year, they cannot possibly be delayed again, already large numbers of council seats are vacant because of postponed by elections
    They can't be made all-postal at the last minute. The decision needs to be made ahead of time - probably also with some thought to enabling campaigning that doesn't involve leaflet deliveries.

    Surprised they haven't announced that in Scotland already. They've given themselves the option of postponing the Holyrood election by six months.
    Don't see why you cannot still leaflet deliver, if you can still get post you can get leaflets still
    Because you might just get clobbered by someone keen to socially distance their garden path. People generally cut their postie and milkman some slack. Not politicos.
    Huh? What does that mean socially distance their garden path?
This discussion has been closed.