Certain people only like democracy when it goes their way.
You cannot coherently argue for No Deal from a democratic POV and then claim the Scots can get Independence Vote if they vote that way in 2021.
It's either both or neither.
I know the muppets in question know it doesn't make sense - and hence why like Sean, they're just here playing characters.
Why not?
The Tory manifesto made clear what our red lines were. Taking back control of our laws, money, borders, natural resources (eg fish) and courts.
If the EU can't or won't agree a deal respecting those red lines then so be it.
It is sad that Tories fail to see that absolute “control” is going to prove a mirage, if our future is to be a marginalised island on the fringes of a powerful European trading bloc. A position we haven’t been in since the reign of one of the Henries.
It’s a shame you are so wound up about the EU. But not for that, you would have made a fine liberal troll, rather than the Brexit troll you have become.
The EU isn't powerful. It's a tiny 6% of the globe.
We aren't 1/27th of the EU. We are 1/5th of it.
There's a big wide world out there. Don't be so afraid of leaving the EU.
You live in a dream world, if you think we can defy our geography as easily as that. There’s a reason that English/British foreign policy has for centuries been directed toward ensuring that a dominant power didn’t emerge on the continent. Now that one has, the question is “join ‘em or leave ‘em”, and leaving is simply the wrong answer.
Of course we can defy our geography like that. Especially since we are a world leader in exporting services that don't require geography. Why do you think that pre-Brexit the EU already forms a minority of our trade? Before we sign new deals with the rest of the world?
We have no more need to form a political union with our neighbours than Japan or Canada do with theirs.
It is just a coincidence that our single biggest export market for services is the single market, presumably.
No. Its a significant bloc on our doorstep. They will continue to be a key market even on WTO terms let alone FTA terms.
The FTA the UK wants not cover services, Phil. That rules out a lot of services that are currently supplied to the single market from the UK.
Not really, there's not a lot of governance on services and no tariffs.
There is a lot of governance on work visas.
At a national level.
Indeed - UK services companies will be facing a lot more red tape, at the very least, when they operate inside the single market from now on.
C'est la vie.
C'est la reduced competitiveness and fewer opportunities.
For what amounts to a tiny, tiny issue and assuming that business travel visas are going to be difficult to come by. I've never experienced that for either the US or Japan and none of my US or Japanese colleagues ever experienced any issues here despite neither country having trade deals with the EU let alone being in the single market. You're once again making something out of nothing because you can't think of anything else.
I am afraid that your personal experience of a very specific part of the market does not equate to a blanket summation of how the UK services sector will fare once the transition comes to an end.
Surely it's the reverse. You have experience in one tiny part of it that might be badly effected by business visas (but probably won't) so you think the whole sector is in trouble. It isn't.
Nope - we'll be fine. We will just open an office in the single market and staff it with locals. Not a problem for us, just less income for the UK government and fewer opportunities for UK citizens based in the UK. Many other businesses will be doing the same - if they haven't already.
Loads of banks and other industries said this and then realised that the staff and expertise is here, not there. I fear you are oversimplifying it because it suits whatever political point you're trying to make.
There is more to services than banks. Most banks and other financial institutions already have EU offices, of course. I am not making a political point, I am making a business one.
It's not just banking, we literally had this with the EMA not having the capacity to approve vaccines as fast as the MHRA because the expertise is here, not in Amsterdam.
Again, services is a wild west of international governance. Being in or out of the single market where isn't really going to make a big difference. Even now without a customs deal being in our out of the single market is basically the difference of tariffs and no tariffs which is essentially a bit of inflation.
Cockney Covid is a good nickname but I suspect that, like Spanish Flu (which actually originated in the midwest USA) it will turn out to be a misnomer.
As has already been pointed out by plenty of people in the know it looks like the main reason we picked this up first in the UK is because we have the ability to do so. Questions have already been raised about the way in which the situation has deteriorated in Germany, Sweden, France and Italy over the last few weeks even though the new mutation had not formally been identified there. Of course I don't know any more than anyone else outside of the scientists but I would not be surprised at all to find that when a closer look is taken at these second waves we find that the mutations were already widespread across Europe and elsewhere even before we identified them in the UK.
Certain people only like democracy when it goes their way.
You cannot coherently argue for No Deal from a democratic POV and then claim the Scots can get Independence Vote if they vote that way in 2021.
It's either both or neither.
I know the muppets in question know it doesn't make sense - and hence why like Sean, they're just here playing characters.
Why not?
The Tory manifesto made clear what our red lines were. Taking back control of our laws, money, borders, natural resources (eg fish) and courts.
If the EU can't or won't agree a deal respecting those red lines then so be it.
It is sad that Tories fail to see that absolute “control” is going to prove a mirage, if our future is to be a marginalised island on the fringes of a powerful European trading bloc. A position we haven’t been in since the reign of one of the Henries.
It’s a shame you are so wound up about the EU. But not for that, you would have made a fine liberal troll, rather than the Brexit troll you have become.
The EU isn't powerful. It's a tiny 6% of the globe.
We aren't 1/27th of the EU. We are 1/5th of it.
There's a big wide world out there. Don't be so afraid of leaving the EU.
You live in a dream world, if you think we can defy our geography as easily as that. There’s a reason that English/British foreign policy has for centuries been directed toward ensuring that a dominant power didn’t emerge on the continent. Now that one has, the question is “join ‘em or leave ‘em”, and leaving is simply the wrong answer.
Of course we can defy our geography like that. Especially since we are a world leader in exporting services that don't require geography. Why do you think that pre-Brexit the EU already forms a minority of our trade? Before we sign new deals with the rest of the world?
We have no more need to form a political union with our neighbours than Japan or Canada do with theirs.
It is just a coincidence that our single biggest export market for services is the single market, presumably.
No. Its a significant bloc on our doorstep. They will continue to be a key market even on WTO terms let alone FTA terms.
The FTA the UK wants not cover services, Phil. That rules out a lot of services that are currently supplied to the single market from the UK.
Not really, there's not a lot of governance on services and no tariffs.
There is a lot of governance on work visas.
At a national level.
Indeed - UK services companies will be facing a lot more red tape, at the very least, when they operate inside the single market from now on.
C'est la vie.
C'est la reduced competitiveness and fewer opportunities.
For what amounts to a tiny, tiny issue and assuming that business travel visas are going to be difficult to come by. I've never experienced that for either the US or Japan and none of my US or Japanese colleagues ever experienced any issues here despite neither country having trade deals with the EU let alone being in the single market. You're once again making something out of nothing because you can't think of anything else.
I am afraid that your personal experience of a very specific part of the market does not equate to a blanket summation of how the UK services sector will fare once the transition comes to an end.
Surely it's the reverse. You have experience in one tiny part of it that might be badly effected by business visas (but probably won't) so you think the whole sector is in trouble. It isn't.
Nope - we'll be fine. We will just open an office in the single market and staff it with locals. Not a problem for us, just less income for the UK government and fewer opportunities for UK citizens based in the UK. Many other businesses will be doing the same - if they haven't already.
So what's the problem? People do that then life goes on.
The problem is that jobs that would have been created in the UK and revenues that would have fallen to the UK exchequer will now go elsewhere.
Perhaps, which was the argument Cameron and Osborne made in 2016. It was the argument Swinson made in 2019.
How much longer do we need to have these arguments? When can a decision be made?
In one of my occasional attempts to give Unionists unsolicited helpful advice on how to save their Union, this short thread unemotionally puts a finger on an (I feel) under discussed aspect of the constitutional debate. Despite the evidence on PB, I certainly don't believe that people's political views are fixed permanently early on, but I think the points about what is socialised/normalised are important.
Is it just me, or should one be rather suspicious of Bellingcat. Not questioning the stories they run are legit, but who they are, why they exist and where they actually get their info?
Initially it was supposed to be that they were just a team of saddos off the internet combing through all publicly available data on maps and social media to find things out.
However, the scoops they get seem further and further than that.
She isn't just a random internet nutter. She was an official Republican candidate for the Senate!
This is the real danger, with the future of the Republican Party under a more plausible Trump.
It is scary.
Like if HYUFD were running for Parliament.
I like to think HYUFD wouldn't be that bad. Hopefully it would just be the christian soldiers and womens' institute of Epping, rather than combined land, sea and air forces.
If HYUFD was my local candidate I'd be sorely tempted to vote Liberal Democrat.
Given you did not even vote Tory in 1997 or 2001 but for New Labour and as a No Deal hardliner voted for the Brexit Party last May that would not bother me one bit
I didn't vote Tory in 1997 as I was 14 then. Do you hold that against everyone?
Remind me which of the 2001 General or 2019 EP elections you won? 🤔
I'd like to see HYUFD's canvassing on the doorsteps of Epping.
"I voted LD last time."
" OK piss off, we don't want your kind voting Tory ..."
Certain people only like democracy when it goes their way.
You cannot coherently argue for No Deal from a democratic POV and then claim the Scots can get Independence Vote if they vote that way in 2021.
It's either both or neither.
I know the muppets in question know it doesn't make sense - and hence why like Sean, they're just here playing characters.
Why not?
The Tory manifesto made clear what our red lines were. Taking back control of our laws, money, borders, natural resources (eg fish) and courts.
If the EU can't or won't agree a deal respecting those red lines then so be it.
It is sad that Tories fail to see that absolute “control” is going to prove a mirage, if our future is to be a marginalised island on the fringes of a powerful European trading bloc. A position we haven’t been in since the reign of one of the Henries.
It’s a shame you are so wound up about the EU. But not for that, you would have made a fine liberal troll, rather than the Brexit troll you have become.
The EU isn't powerful. It's a tiny 6% of the globe.
We aren't 1/27th of the EU. We are 1/5th of it.
There's a big wide world out there. Don't be so afraid of leaving the EU.
You live in a dream world, if you think we can defy our geography as easily as that. There’s a reason that English/British foreign policy has for centuries been directed toward ensuring that a dominant power didn’t emerge on the continent. Now that one has, the question is “join ‘em or leave ‘em”, and leaving is simply the wrong answer.
Of course we can defy our geography like that. Especially since we are a world leader in exporting services that don't require geography. Why do you think that pre-Brexit the EU already forms a minority of our trade? Before we sign new deals with the rest of the world?
We have no more need to form a political union with our neighbours than Japan or Canada do with theirs.
It is just a coincidence that our single biggest export market for services is the single market, presumably.
No. Its a significant bloc on our doorstep. They will continue to be a key market even on WTO terms let alone FTA terms.
The FTA the UK wants not cover services, Phil. That rules out a lot of services that are currently supplied to the single market from the UK.
Not really, there's not a lot of governance on services and no tariffs.
There is a lot of governance on work visas.
At a national level.
Indeed - UK services companies will be facing a lot more red tape, at the very least, when they operate inside the single market from now on.
C'est la vie.
C'est la reduced competitiveness and fewer opportunities.
For what amounts to a tiny, tiny issue and assuming that business travel visas are going to be difficult to come by. I've never experienced that for either the US or Japan and none of my US or Japanese colleagues ever experienced any issues here despite neither country having trade deals with the EU let alone being in the single market. You're once again making something out of nothing because you can't think of anything else.
I am afraid that your personal experience of a very specific part of the market does not equate to a blanket summation of how the UK services sector will fare once the transition comes to an end.
Surely it's the reverse. You have experience in one tiny part of it that might be badly effected by business visas (but probably won't) so you think the whole sector is in trouble. It isn't.
Nope - we'll be fine. We will just open an office in the single market and staff it with locals. Not a problem for us, just less income for the UK government and fewer opportunities for UK citizens based in the UK. Many other businesses will be doing the same - if they haven't already.
So what's the problem? People do that then life goes on.
The problem is that jobs that would have been created in the UK and revenues that would have fallen to the UK exchequer will now go elsewhere.
Perhaps, which was the argument Cameron and Osborne made in 2016. It was the argument Swinson made in 2019.
How much longer do we need to have these arguments? When can a decision be made?
You asked, I explained.
But it is good that we are now all acknowledging there are significant downsides to the end of the transition. At some point, we may see some upsides. Here's hoping.
She isn't just a random internet nutter. She was an official Republican candidate for the Senate!
This is the real danger, with the future of the Republican Party under a more plausible Trump.
It is scary.
Like if HYUFD were running for Parliament.
I like to think HYUFD wouldn't be that bad. Hopefully it would just be the christian soldiers and womens' institute of Epping, rather than combined land, sea and air forces.
If HYUFD was my local candidate I'd be sorely tempted to vote Liberal Democrat.
Given you did not even vote Tory in 1997 or 2001 but for New Labour and as a No Deal hardliner voted for the Brexit Party last May that would not bother me one bit
I didn't vote Tory in 1997 as I was 14 then. Do you hold that against everyone?
Remind me which of the 2001 General or 2019 EP elections you won? 🤔
The Tories won Epping Forest in 2001 even when you were voting Labour
Cockney Covid is a good nickname but I suspect that, like Spanish Flu (which actually originated in the midwest USA) it will turn out to be a misnomer.
As has already been pointed out by plenty of people in the know it looks like the main reason we picked this up first in the UK is because we have the ability to do so. Questions have already been raised about the way in which the situation has deteriorated in Germany, Sweden, France and Italy over the last few weeks even though the new mutation had not formally been identified there. Of course I don't know any more than anyone else outside of the scientists but I would not be surprised at all to find that when a closer look is taken at these second waves we find that the mutations were already widespread across Europe and elsewhere even before we identified them in the UK.
Yes, I think that is highly likely, verging on near-certain.
And even if it wasn't widespread outside the UK a couple of weeks ago, it almost certainly is now. It's also bound to be in all the lower-tier areas in the UK (in large quantities, as youngsters seem to have left London in large numbers to go home to their parents' houses). The government is once again hoping for the best and acting too late.
Is it just me, or should one be rather suspicious of Bellingcat. Not questioning the stories they run are legit, but who they are, why they exist and where they actually get their info?
Initially it was supposed to be that they were just a team of saddos off the internet combing through all publicly available data on maps and social media to find things out.
However, the scoops they get seem further and further than that.
Yes, of course. At the very least they are getting a lot of help from one or more intelligence agencies.
She isn't just a random internet nutter. She was an official Republican candidate for the Senate!
This is the real danger, with the future of the Republican Party under a more plausible Trump.
It is scary.
Like if HYUFD were running for Parliament.
I like to think HYUFD wouldn't be that bad. Hopefully it would just be the christian soldiers and womens' institute of Epping, rather than combined land, sea and air forces.
If HYUFD was my local candidate I'd be sorely tempted to vote Liberal Democrat.
Given you did not even vote Tory in 1997 or 2001 but for New Labour and as a No Deal hardliner voted for the Brexit Party last May that would not bother me one bit
I didn't vote Tory in 1997 as I was 14 then. Do you hold that against everyone?
Remind me which of the 2001 General or 2019 EP elections you won? 🤔
I'd like to see HYUFD's canvassing on the doorsteps of Epping.
"I voted LD last time."
" OK piss off, we don't want your kind voting Tory ..."
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally too, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
She isn't just a random internet nutter. She was an official Republican candidate for the Senate!
This is the real danger, with the future of the Republican Party under a more plausible Trump.
It is scary.
Like if HYUFD were running for Parliament.
I like to think HYUFD wouldn't be that bad. Hopefully it would just be the christian soldiers and womens' institute of Epping, rather than combined land, sea and air forces.
If HYUFD was my local candidate I'd be sorely tempted to vote Liberal Democrat.
Given you did not even vote Tory in 1997 or 2001 but for New Labour and as a No Deal hardliner voted for the Brexit Party last May that would not bother me one bit
I didn't vote Tory in 1997 as I was 14 then. Do you hold that against everyone?
Remind me which of the 2001 General or 2019 EP elections you won? 🤔
The Tories won Epping Forest in 2001 even when you were voting Labour
They may have won Epping Forest but not the university town constituency I voted in. Or the election. But ah well so long as the Tories won Epping Forest that's all that matters, isn't it?
Why HYUFD, it profit a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. . . but for Epping Forest!
She isn't just a random internet nutter. She was an official Republican candidate for the Senate!
This is the real danger, with the future of the Republican Party under a more plausible Trump.
It is scary.
Like if HYUFD were running for Parliament.
I like to think HYUFD wouldn't be that bad. Hopefully it would just be the christian soldiers and womens' institute of Epping, rather than combined land, sea and air forces.
If HYUFD was my local candidate I'd be sorely tempted to vote Liberal Democrat.
Given you did not even vote Tory in 1997 or 2001 but for New Labour and as a No Deal hardliner voted for the Brexit Party last May that would not bother me one bit
I didn't vote Tory in 1997 as I was 14 then. Do you hold that against everyone?
Remind me which of the 2001 General or 2019 EP elections you won? 🤔
I'd like to see HYUFD's canvassing on the doorsteps of Epping.
"I voted LD last time."
" OK piss off, we don't want your kind voting Tory ..."
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
Certain people only like democracy when it goes their way.
You cannot coherently argue for No Deal from a democratic POV and then claim the Scots can get Independence Vote if they vote that way in 2021.
It's either both or neither.
I know the muppets in question know it doesn't make sense - and hence why like Sean, they're just here playing characters.
Why not?
The Tory manifesto made clear what our red lines were. Taking back control of our laws, money, borders, natural resources (eg fish) and courts.
If the EU can't or won't agree a deal respecting those red lines then so be it.
It is sad that Tories fail to see that absolute “control” is going to prove a mirage, if our future is to be a marginalised island on the fringes of a powerful European trading bloc. A position we haven’t been in since the reign of one of the Henries.
It’s a shame you are so wound up about the EU. But not for that, you would have made a fine liberal troll, rather than the Brexit troll you have become.
The EU isn't powerful. It's a tiny 6% of the globe.
We aren't 1/27th of the EU. We are 1/5th of it.
There's a big wide world out there. Don't be so afraid of leaving the EU.
You live in a dream world, if you think we can defy our geography as easily as that. There’s a reason that English/British foreign policy has for centuries been directed toward ensuring that a dominant power didn’t emerge on the continent. Now that one has, the question is “join ‘em or leave ‘em”, and leaving is simply the wrong answer.
Of course we can defy our geography like that. Especially since we are a world leader in exporting services that don't require geography. Why do you think that pre-Brexit the EU already forms a minority of our trade? Before we sign new deals with the rest of the world?
We have no more need to form a political union with our neighbours than Japan or Canada do with theirs.
It is just a coincidence that our single biggest export market for services is the single market, presumably.
No. Its a significant bloc on our doorstep. They will continue to be a key market even on WTO terms let alone FTA terms.
The FTA the UK wants not cover services, Phil. That rules out a lot of services that are currently supplied to the single market from the UK.
Not really, there's not a lot of governance on services and no tariffs.
There is a lot of governance on work visas.
At a national level.
Indeed - UK services companies will be facing a lot more red tape, at the very least, when they operate inside the single market from now on.
C'est la vie.
C'est la reduced competitiveness and fewer opportunities.
For what amounts to a tiny, tiny issue and assuming that business travel visas are going to be difficult to come by. I've never experienced that for either the US or Japan and none of my US or Japanese colleagues ever experienced any issues here despite neither country having trade deals with the EU let alone being in the single market. You're once again making something out of nothing because you can't think of anything else.
I am afraid that your personal experience of a very specific part of the market does not equate to a blanket summation of how the UK services sector will fare once the transition comes to an end.
Surely it's the reverse. You have experience in one tiny part of it that might be badly effected by business visas (but probably won't) so you think the whole sector is in trouble. It isn't.
Nope - we'll be fine. We will just open an office in the single market and staff it with locals. Not a problem for us, just less income for the UK government and fewer opportunities for UK citizens based in the UK. Many other businesses will be doing the same - if they haven't already.
So what's the problem? People do that then life goes on.
The problem is that jobs that would have been created in the UK and revenues that would have fallen to the UK exchequer will now go elsewhere.
Perhaps, which was the argument Cameron and Osborne made in 2016. It was the argument Swinson made in 2019.
How much longer do we need to have these arguments? When can a decision be made?
You asked, I explained.
But it is good that we are now all acknowledging there are significant downsides to the end of the transition. At some point, we may see some upsides. Here's hoping.
I have always expected significant downsides to the end of the transition. Which is why I don't want to keep kicking he can so we undergo some of those downsides again and again and again. As RochdalePioneers we're already undergoing much of the affects of No Deal already - so its time now to get to the other side if that is what its going to be (or get the Deal if it is not).
We won't get to the eventual upsides if we never get through the bottom part of the hockey stick.
She isn't just a random internet nutter. She was an official Republican candidate for the Senate!
This is the real danger, with the future of the Republican Party under a more plausible Trump.
It is scary.
Like if HYUFD were running for Parliament.
I like to think HYUFD wouldn't be that bad. Hopefully it would just be the christian soldiers and womens' institute of Epping, rather than combined land, sea and air forces.
If HYUFD was my local candidate I'd be sorely tempted to vote Liberal Democrat.
Given you did not even vote Tory in 1997 or 2001 but for New Labour and as a No Deal hardliner voted for the Brexit Party last May that would not bother me one bit
I didn't vote Tory in 1997 as I was 14 then. Do you hold that against everyone?
Remind me which of the 2001 General or 2019 EP elections you won? 🤔
I'd like to see HYUFD's canvassing on the doorsteps of Epping.
"I voted LD last time."
" OK piss off, we don't want your kind voting Tory ..."
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
But if you don't even try ...
You don't need to, the swing voters in my ward are those who vote Tory nationally but LDs locally, the Tories won the ward at the general election but the Tories last elected a councillor in the ward in 2015, otherwise it votes LD
She isn't just a random internet nutter. She was an official Republican candidate for the Senate!
This is the real danger, with the future of the Republican Party under a more plausible Trump.
It is scary.
Like if HYUFD were running for Parliament.
I like to think HYUFD wouldn't be that bad. Hopefully it would just be the christian soldiers and womens' institute of Epping, rather than combined land, sea and air forces.
If HYUFD was my local candidate I'd be sorely tempted to vote Liberal Democrat.
Given you did not even vote Tory in 1997 or 2001 but for New Labour and as a No Deal hardliner voted for the Brexit Party last May that would not bother me one bit
I didn't vote Tory in 1997 as I was 14 then. Do you hold that against everyone?
Remind me which of the 2001 General or 2019 EP elections you won? 🤔
I'd like to see HYUFD's canvassing on the doorsteps of Epping.
"I voted LD last time."
" OK piss off, we don't want your kind voting Tory ..."
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
But if you don't even try ...
Not only that but he holds against 37 year old voters how they voted when they were 18 two decades prior. Even if they voted Tory at the last five General Elections that isn't good enough.
Considering the overwhelming majority of 18 year olds don't vote Tory, that's an interesting philosophy to have.
This piece sums up the majority of the West's failing approach to COVID. I deserve to make new memories, I was excited to go to France for Christmas, etc.
Compare to Australia, you not Australian, ain't coming in...end of...if you are, in that hotel room for 2 weeks, no ifs, no buts.
This piece sums up the majority of the West's failing approach to COVID. I deserve to make new memories, I was excited to go to France for Christmas, etc.
Compare to Australia, you not Australian, ain't coming in...end of...
Compare to Australia: no you aren't travelling from Melbourne to Sydney ... end of ...
Anecdote: my uncle's care home in Penzance has now had the vaccination done (obvs part 1). I'm quite impressed how the thing is rolling out across the country - I don't really care if people according to preference want to credit Boris or the centralised NHS or the brilliance of Britain, I'm just really pleased to see something working well.
Cockney Covid is a good nickname but I suspect that, like Spanish Flu (which actually originated in the midwest USA) it will turn out to be a misnomer.
As has already been pointed out by plenty of people in the know it looks like the main reason we picked this up first in the UK is because we have the ability to do so. Questions have already been raised about the way in which the situation has deteriorated in Germany, Sweden, France and Italy over the last few weeks even though the new mutation had not formally been identified there. Of course I don't know any more than anyone else outside of the scientists but I would not be surprised at all to find that when a closer look is taken at these second waves we find that the mutations were already widespread across Europe and elsewhere even before we identified them in the UK.
Yes, I think that is highly likely, verging on near-certain.
And even if it wasn't widespread outside the UK a couple of weeks ago, it almost certainly is now. It's also bound to be in all the lower-tier areas in the UK (in large quantities, as youngsters seem to have left London in large numbers to go home to their parents' houses). The government is once again hoping for the best and acting too late.
Quote from the MIT Tech Review. It seems that UK labs contributed nearly half the genetic sequences in the international database.
And of course detection in Kent followed by London suggests it may have come from France .
One reason the mutated virus was spotted in the UK might be that the country has pursued such “genomic epidemiology” aggressively. For example, British labs contributed fully 45% of the 275,000 coronavirus sequences deposited to the global GISAID database, according to a threat assessment brief from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control.
According to the COVID-19 Genomics Consortium UK, the coalition of labs that’s been sequencing viruses, the variant was first spotted on September 20 in Kent and a day later in London.
Certain people only like democracy when it goes their way.
You cannot coherently argue for No Deal from a democratic POV and then claim the Scots can get Independence Vote if they vote that way in 2021.
It's either both or neither.
I know the muppets in question know it doesn't make sense - and hence why like Sean, they're just here playing characters.
Why not?
The Tory manifesto made clear what our red lines were. Taking back control of our laws, money, borders, natural resources (eg fish) and courts.
If the EU can't or won't agree a deal respecting those red lines then so be it.
It is sad that Tories fail to see that absolute “control” is going to prove a mirage, if our future is to be a marginalised island on the fringes of a powerful European trading bloc. A position we haven’t been in since the reign of one of the Henries.
It’s a shame you are so wound up about the EU. But not for that, you would have made a fine liberal troll, rather than the Brexit troll you have become.
The EU isn't powerful. It's a tiny 6% of the globe.
We aren't 1/27th of the EU. We are 1/5th of it.
There's a big wide world out there. Don't be so afraid of leaving the EU.
You live in a dream world, if you think we can defy our geography as easily as that. There’s a reason that English/British foreign policy has for centuries been directed toward ensuring that a dominant power didn’t emerge on the continent. Now that one has, the question is “join ‘em or leave ‘em”, and leaving is simply the wrong answer.
Of course we can defy our geography like that. Especially since we are a world leader in exporting services that don't require geography. Why do you think that pre-Brexit the EU already forms a minority of our trade? Before we sign new deals with the rest of the world?
We have no more need to form a political union with our neighbours than Japan or Canada do with theirs.
It is just a coincidence that our single biggest export market for services is the single market, presumably.
No. Its a significant bloc on our doorstep. They will continue to be a key market even on WTO terms let alone FTA terms.
The FTA the UK wants not cover services, Phil. That rules out a lot of services that are currently supplied to the single market from the UK.
Not really, there's not a lot of governance on services and no tariffs.
There is a lot of governance on work visas.
At a national level.
Indeed - UK services companies will be facing a lot more red tape, at the very least, when they operate inside the single market from now on.
C'est la vie.
C'est la reduced competitiveness and fewer opportunities.
For what amounts to a tiny, tiny issue and assuming that business travel visas are going to be difficult to come by. I've never experienced that for either the US or Japan and none of my US or Japanese colleagues ever experienced any issues here despite neither country having trade deals with the EU let alone being in the single market. You're once again making something out of nothing because you can't think of anything else.
I am afraid that your personal experience of a very specific part of the market does not equate to a blanket summation of how the UK services sector will fare once the transition comes to an end.
Surely it's the reverse. You have experience in one tiny part of it that might be badly effected by business visas (but probably won't) so you think the whole sector is in trouble. It isn't.
Nope - we'll be fine. We will just open an office in the single market and staff it with locals. Not a problem for us, just less income for the UK government and fewer opportunities for UK citizens based in the UK. Many other businesses will be doing the same - if they haven't already.
Loads of banks and other industries said this and then realised that the staff and expertise is here, not there. I fear you are oversimplifying it because it suits whatever political point you're trying to make.
There is more to services than banks. Most banks and other financial institutions already have EU offices, of course. I am not making a political point, I am making a business one.
It's not just banking, we literally had this with the EMA not having the capacity to approve vaccines as fast as the MHRA because the expertise is here, not in Amsterdam.
Again, services is a wild west of international governance. Being in or out of the single market where isn't really going to make a big difference. Even now without a customs deal being in our out of the single market is basically the difference of tariffs and no tariffs which is essentially a bit of inflation.
Well, we'll soon find out. UK-based services companies are about to lose a lot of freedom of action inside the single market. Your sector will be least affected because it is so internationalised, but unfortunately it represents only around 20% of our services exports.
Anecdote: my uncle's care home in Penzance has now had the vaccination done (obvs part 1). I'm quite impressed how the thing is rolling out across the country - I don't really care if people according to preference want to credit Boris or the centralised NHS or the brilliance of Britain, I'm just really pleased to see something working well.
My elderly parents haven't been contacted yet. Getting slightly concerned, as my father in particular ticks every box under the sun for being super high risk to COVID.
Queue jumper.....that's the nonsense the media here threw at VVVIPs getting priority.
AOC already has hers (as has my wife just 5 minutes ago - as an anaesthetist, she's at the sharp end), so Biden is not jumping the queue relative to other members of Congress.
Anecdote: my uncle's care home in Penzance has now had the vaccination done (obvs part 1). I'm quite impressed how the thing is rolling out across the country - I don't really care if people according to preference want to credit Boris or the centralised NHS or the brilliance of Britain, I'm just really pleased to see something working well.
Mutter, mutter, mutter! Surgery says don't know when.
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally too, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
There's no point wasting canvassing time on the known "Antis" or indeed your firm supporters. If it's a local election, I always concentrated on those with a record of voting - start with the "Probables" and firm them up then look at any new voters who have never been canvassed and any "DK" who voted last time.
A GE is very different as you say - split votes, many more voters (anything up to double the number) and it's a bigger area so more resources and time needed. A "snap" election was always the biggest challenge in terms of logistics. Local elections are much easier. Ongoing local activity helps a lot in gathering the intelligence to help canvassing and targeted mailing (or social media as I imagine it is these days).
Queue jumper.....that's the nonsense the media here threw at VVVIPs getting priority.
AOC already has hers (as has my wife just 5 minutes ago - as an anaesthetist, she's at the sharp end), so Biden is not jumping the queue relative to other members of Congress.
I can understand the octogenarian President Elect but why AOC?
Is it just me, or should one be rather suspicious of Bellingcat. Not questioning the stories they run are legit, but who they are, why they exist and where they actually get their info?
Initially it was supposed to be that they were just a team of saddos off the internet combing through all publicly available data on maps and social media to find things out.
However, the scoops they get seem further and further than that.
If they aren't supported, even informally, by at least one security service I will eat my hat.
Anecdote: my uncle's care home in Penzance has now had the vaccination done (obvs part 1). I'm quite impressed how the thing is rolling out across the country - I don't really care if people according to preference want to credit Boris or the centralised NHS or the brilliance of Britain, I'm just really pleased to see something working well.
My elderly parents haven't been contacted yet. Getting slightly concerned, as my father in particular ticks every box under the sun for being super high risk to COVID.
The surgeries that got the Vaccine first are the areas which have the highest level of 80+ people, every surgery should get it this week
Queue jumper.....that's the nonsense the media here threw at VVVIPs getting priority.
AOC already has hers (as has my wife just 5 minutes ago - as an anaesthetist, she's at the sharp end), so Biden is not jumping the queue relative to other members of Congress.
I can understand the octogenarian President Elect but why AOC?
As a 62-year-old with no co-morbidities who works from home (albeit in infection control and biological risk management), I somehow fall behind young adults and school children in the queue, so doubt I'll get vaccinated until May or later.
I can sort of understand why some elected politicians should jump the queue - and if they are going to do some of them, they might as well do all 538 of them. And Hispanics are the single most affected ethnic group in the US, so having AOC get the shot might help in the messaging, despite the other optics, given her youth and health.
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally too, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
There's no point wasting canvassing time on the known "Antis" or indeed your firm supporters. If it's a local election, I always concentrated on those with a record of voting - start with the "Probables" and firm them up then look at any new voters who have never been canvassed and any "DK" who voted last time.
A GE is very different as you say - split votes, many more voters (anything up to double the number) and it's a bigger area so more resources and time needed. A "snap" election was always the biggest challenge in terms of logistics. Local elections are much easier. Ongoing local activity helps a lot in gathering the intelligence to help canvassing and targeted mailing (or social media as I imagine it is these days).
Yes but HYUFD seems to have nothing but contempt for "swing" voters.
I've voted Tory in the last five General Elections in a row, including the losing 2005 election, and he views me contemptuously as "not a real Tory who should f##k off and join the Liberal Democrats".
Is it just me, or should one be rather suspicious of Bellingcat. Not questioning the stories they run are legit, but who they are, why they exist and where they actually get their info?
Initially it was supposed to be that they were just a team of saddos off the internet combing through all publicly available data on maps and social media to find things out.
However, the scoops they get seem further and further than that.
Yes, of course. At the very least they are getting a lot of help from one or more intelligence agencies.
You’d have to be an idiot to get involved with bellingcat imo
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally too, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
There's no point wasting canvassing time on the known "Antis" or indeed your firm supporters. If it's a local election, I always concentrated on those with a record of voting - start with the "Probables" and firm them up then look at any new voters who have never been canvassed and any "DK" who voted last time.
A GE is very different as you say - split votes, many more voters (anything up to double the number) and it's a bigger area so more resources and time needed. A "snap" election was always the biggest challenge in terms of logistics. Local elections are much easier. Ongoing local activity helps a lot in gathering the intelligence to help canvassing and targeted mailing (or social media as I imagine it is these days).
Yes but HYUFD seems to have nothing but contempt for "swing" voters.
I've voted Tory in the last five General Elections in a row, including the losing 2005 election, and he views me contemptuously as "not a real Tory who should f##k off and join the Liberal Democrats".
Odd philosophy. 🤔
I take the points others have made - but what if you were threatening to **** off and join Mr Farage's lot (whatsoever they might be called)?
Is it just me, or should one be rather suspicious of Bellingcat. Not questioning the stories they run are legit, but who they are, why they exist and where they actually get their info?
Initially it was supposed to be that they were just a team of saddos off the internet combing through all publicly available data on maps and social media to find things out.
However, the scoops they get seem further and further than that.
Yes, of course. At the very least they are getting a lot of help from one or more intelligence agencies.
You’d have to be an idiot to get involved with bellingcat imo
It’s a dangerous game they’re playing.
Leave it to the experts!
You definitely don't want to live in a flat with a balcony if you do decide to get involved....
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally too, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
There's no point wasting canvassing time on the known "Antis" or indeed your firm supporters. If it's a local election, I always concentrated on those with a record of voting - start with the "Probables" and firm them up then look at any new voters who have never been canvassed and any "DK" who voted last time.
A GE is very different as you say - split votes, many more voters (anything up to double the number) and it's a bigger area so more resources and time needed. A "snap" election was always the biggest challenge in terms of logistics. Local elections are much easier. Ongoing local activity helps a lot in gathering the intelligence to help canvassing and targeted mailing (or social media as I imagine it is these days).
Yes but HYUFD seems to have nothing but contempt for "swing" voters.
I've voted Tory in the last five General Elections in a row, including the losing 2005 election, and he views me contemptuously as "not a real Tory who should f##k off and join the Liberal Democrats".
Odd philosophy. 🤔
I take the points others have made - but what if you were threatening to **** off and join Mr Farage's lot (whatsoever they might be called)?
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally too, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
There's no point wasting canvassing time on the known "Antis" or indeed your firm supporters. If it's a local election, I always concentrated on those with a record of voting - start with the "Probables" and firm them up then look at any new voters who have never been canvassed and any "DK" who voted last time.
A GE is very different as you say - split votes, many more voters (anything up to double the number) and it's a bigger area so more resources and time needed. A "snap" election was always the biggest challenge in terms of logistics. Local elections are much easier. Ongoing local activity helps a lot in gathering the intelligence to help canvassing and targeted mailing (or social media as I imagine it is these days).
Yes but HYUFD seems to have nothing but contempt for "swing" voters.
I've voted Tory in the last five General Elections in a row, including the losing 2005 election, and he views me contemptuously as "not a real Tory who should f##k off and join the Liberal Democrats".
Odd philosophy. 🤔
... ,and yet he is positively relying on swing voters to shore up the Imperial forces in Scotland, come to think of it.
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally too, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
There's no point wasting canvassing time on the known "Antis" or indeed your firm supporters. If it's a local election, I always concentrated on those with a record of voting - start with the "Probables" and firm them up then look at any new voters who have never been canvassed and any "DK" who voted last time.
A GE is very different as you say - split votes, many more voters (anything up to double the number) and it's a bigger area so more resources and time needed. A "snap" election was always the biggest challenge in terms of logistics. Local elections are much easier. Ongoing local activity helps a lot in gathering the intelligence to help canvassing and targeted mailing (or social media as I imagine it is these days).
Yes but HYUFD seems to have nothing but contempt for "swing" voters.
I've voted Tory in the last five General Elections in a row, including the losing 2005 election, and he views me contemptuously as "not a real Tory who should f##k off and join the Liberal Democrats".
Odd philosophy. 🤔
I take the points others have made - but what if you were threatening to **** off and join Mr Farage's lot (whatsoever they might be called)?
I would have thought the more successful canvassing technique would be to give reasons not to - not say "f##k off then we don't want your kind voting for us anyway".
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally too, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
There's no point wasting canvassing time on the known "Antis" or indeed your firm supporters. If it's a local election, I always concentrated on those with a record of voting - start with the "Probables" and firm them up then look at any new voters who have never been canvassed and any "DK" who voted last time.
A GE is very different as you say - split votes, many more voters (anything up to double the number) and it's a bigger area so more resources and time needed. A "snap" election was always the biggest challenge in terms of logistics. Local elections are much easier. Ongoing local activity helps a lot in gathering the intelligence to help canvassing and targeted mailing (or social media as I imagine it is these days).
Yes but HYUFD seems to have nothing but contempt for "swing" voters.
I've voted Tory in the last five General Elections in a row, including the losing 2005 election, and he views me contemptuously as "not a real Tory who should f##k off and join the Liberal Democrats".
Odd philosophy. 🤔
... ,and yet he is positively relying on swing voters to shore up the Imperial forces in Scotland, come to think of it.
I would have thought the sensible thing in Scotland would be for the Tories to back off and leave the field clear for the LD's.
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally too, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
There's no point wasting canvassing time on the known "Antis" or indeed your firm supporters. If it's a local election, I always concentrated on those with a record of voting - start with the "Probables" and firm them up then look at any new voters who have never been canvassed and any "DK" who voted last time.
A GE is very different as you say - split votes, many more voters (anything up to double the number) and it's a bigger area so more resources and time needed. A "snap" election was always the biggest challenge in terms of logistics. Local elections are much easier. Ongoing local activity helps a lot in gathering the intelligence to help canvassing and targeted mailing (or social media as I imagine it is these days).
Yes but HYUFD seems to have nothing but contempt for "swing" voters.
I've voted Tory in the last five General Elections in a row, including the losing 2005 election, and he views me contemptuously as "not a real Tory who should f##k off and join the Liberal Democrats".
Odd philosophy. 🤔
... ,and yet he is positively relying on swing voters to shore up the Imperial forces in Scotland, come to think of it.
Even worse he thinks rock solid Labour voters and rock solid Tory voters can be added to some mythical "unionist" total.
She isn't just a random internet nutter. She was an official Republican candidate for the Senate!
This is the real danger, with the future of the Republican Party under a more plausible Trump.
It is scary.
Like if HYUFD were running for Parliament.
I like to think HYUFD wouldn't be that bad. Hopefully it would just be the christian soldiers and womens' institute of Epping, rather than combined land, sea and air forces.
If HYUFD was my local candidate I'd be sorely tempted to vote Liberal Democrat.
Given you did not even vote Tory in 1997 or 2001 but for New Labour and as a No Deal hardliner voted for the Brexit Party last May that would not surprise me or bother me one bit
She isn't just a random internet nutter. She was an official Republican candidate for the Senate!
This is the real danger, with the future of the Republican Party under a more plausible Trump.
It is scary.
Like if HYUFD were running for Parliament.
I like to think HYUFD wouldn't be that bad. Hopefully it would just be the christian soldiers and womens' institute of Epping, rather than combined land, sea and air forces.
If HYUFD was my local candidate I'd be sorely tempted to vote Liberal Democrat.
He does exemplify a lot that is wrong with our politics nowadays, being obsessed with the smaller picture, focused almost entirely on party advantage rather than the public interest, with questionable integrity and honesty, and who places twisting the evidence to win a point well ahead of applying himself to better understanding the world.
It is risible for the member of any party to mention questionable integrity and honesty about a member of another party as all parties are as bad as each other in the "questionable integrity and honesty" stakes. It would I feel be declared a photo finish
I hope that the efforts to develop treatments to combat the effects of the virus are continuing full pelt. Vaccines may be thwarted by virus evolution and so being pessimistic it may be a more drawn out battle with phases and generations of vaccines. If the mortality rate is driven down further we can return to semi-normal (some distancing, face masks etc.) even if infections wax and wane.
The last "update" I watched from a front line medic in the UK, they basically said other than the steroid, all the other fancy new stuff that people had hoped might be effective* have been a bust. It is basically dexamethasone and that is about it.
* I don't think they were including Trump's special treatment in that.
No, but lots of small improvements in management of oxygen, fluids, etc has halved the mortality. People like "wonder drugs" but the truth is that medicine is often incremental, doing small things well.
She isn't just a random internet nutter. She was an official Republican candidate for the Senate!
This is the real danger, with the future of the Republican Party under a more plausible Trump.
It is scary.
Like if HYUFD were running for Parliament.
I like to think HYUFD wouldn't be that bad. Hopefully it would just be the christian soldiers and womens' institute of Epping, rather than combined land, sea and air forces.
If HYUFD was my local candidate I'd be sorely tempted to vote Liberal Democrat.
Given you did not even vote Tory in 1997 or 2001 but for New Labour and as a No Deal hardliner voted for the Brexit Party last May that would not surprise me or bother me one bit
I just love a little blue on blue action!
HYUFD is in a different orbit to most of us ordinary members and spouts a lot of utter embarrassing rubbish
Gods forbid the Head of Government might feel it necessary to get involved fairly frequently in an urgent situation which can change day by day.
It's not as though Boris is typically accused of working too hard and involving himself too much.
Yet Parliament was sent home despite covid pandemic being at its most critical and No Deal Brexit.
Johnson doesn't mind the easy questions from the journos. No so keen on Sir Keir.
Certainly he is not. I think there are many a valid criticism of government and Boris, and in fact despite the comment too frequent a communication updating on different things is not something entirely unworthy of criticism, at least in potential, but one must make allowance for a rapidly altering situation, and while he could be doing many other things, Boris doing too much rather than too little, in this one area, is an odd critique.
I’m still technically a Labour member and would probably answer “don’t know” to that question because I know nothing about Dodds. 🤷♂️
its difficult for Dodds. The labour chancellor's default position is always 'outspend the tories'
FFS how could anybody do that?
They've tried it at several points in this pandemic nonetheless. Not enough support for industry x or y for example, though more commonly its criticising the implementation.
She isn't just a random internet nutter. She was an official Republican candidate for the Senate!
This is the real danger, with the future of the Republican Party under a more plausible Trump.
It is scary.
Like if HYUFD were running for Parliament.
I like to think HYUFD wouldn't be that bad. Hopefully it would just be the christian soldiers and womens' institute of Epping, rather than combined land, sea and air forces.
If HYUFD was my local candidate I'd be sorely tempted to vote Liberal Democrat.
Given you did not even vote Tory in 1997 or 2001 but for New Labour and as a No Deal hardliner voted for the Brexit Party last May that would not surprise me or bother me one bit
I just love a little blue on blue action!
Not to mention a spot of the old flage. Truncheons innit.
It does seem remarkable on 21/12/20 with transition ending on 31/12/20 just how little mention the lack of a Brexit deal is getting, except for on this site.
Covid really has upended all the assumptions of the 2017-19 Parliament.
Anecdote: my uncle's care home in Penzance has now had the vaccination done (obvs part 1). I'm quite impressed how the thing is rolling out across the country - I don't really care if people according to preference want to credit Boris or the centralised NHS or the brilliance of Britain, I'm just really pleased to see something working well.
Excellent. Do you know how they organised it, i.e. did they bring the vaccine to the care home, or take the residents to a vaccination centre?
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally too, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
There's no point wasting canvassing time on the known "Antis" or indeed your firm supporters. If it's a local election, I always concentrated on those with a record of voting - start with the "Probables" and firm them up then look at any new voters who have never been canvassed and any "DK" who voted last time.
A GE is very different as you say - split votes, many more voters (anything up to double the number) and it's a bigger area so more resources and time needed. A "snap" election was always the biggest challenge in terms of logistics. Local elections are much easier. Ongoing local activity helps a lot in gathering the intelligence to help canvassing and targeted mailing (or social media as I imagine it is these days).
Yes but HYUFD seems to have nothing but contempt for "swing" voters.
I've voted Tory in the last five General Elections in a row, including the losing 2005 election, and he views me contemptuously as "not a real Tory who should f##k off and join the Liberal Democrats".
Odd philosophy. 🤔
I take the points others have made - but what if you were threatening to **** off and join Mr Farage's lot (whatsoever they might be called)?
I would have thought the more successful canvassing technique would be to give reasons not to - not say "f##k off then we don't want your kind voting for us anyway".
I can see, from a canvassers point of view, that there's little benefit to pissing about when someone pretty clearly will not be inclined to vote for you, and hanging about would be wasting your time.
However, people are not completely stupid, and if the canvasser clearly holds them in utter contempt (and when someone has such contempt for floating voters it seems impossible that they can conceal it very well, even if they try) then for starters if thy were even potentially considering returning to the true path it may put them off, and for seconds it may well harden their attitude considerably such that, locally at any rate, they won't be inclined to consider the party for the future. It need not be many to have an effect at a local level at least, which can swing on small numbers.
I've never watched Elf as I find Will Ferrell very annoying, and have seen only half the total list. I may have overloaded on cheesy Hallmark Xmas movies.
It does seem remarkable on 21/12/20 with transition ending on 31/12/20 just how little mention the lack of a Brexit deal is getting, except for on this site.
Covid really has upended all the assumptions of the 2017-19 Parliament.
As you've said before, it's whether people notice in January that's important. In terms of establishing a narrative of, "Yes, that's a little disruption, but not as much as feared," it would be more helpful to you for expectations now to be calibrated by wall-to-wall Brexit doom.
Just seen a comment from a remainy young person I know on Twitter demanding the government apologise "unreservedly to us and the WORLD for the new strain of Covid WE cultivated on our own shores".
Words fail me...... if this new strain popped up anywhere else but the UK he wouldn't be demanding an apology from that state.
I've never watched Elf as I find Will Ferrell very annoying, and have seen only half the total list. I may have overloaded on cheesy Hallmark Xmas movies.
Elf is probably his best film. It is my wife's all time favourite.
Anecdote: my uncle's care home in Penzance has now had the vaccination done (obvs part 1). I'm quite impressed how the thing is rolling out across the country - I don't really care if people according to preference want to credit Boris or the centralised NHS or the brilliance of Britain, I'm just really pleased to see something working well.
Nick, my mum`s care home in Devon still has heard nothing (as far as I know). So a postcode lottery of some sort is happening I think. Inevitable to some extent TBF.
Did your uncle`s care home receive a visit from medics to administer the jabs to all the residents in one go, or were the residents transported somewhere? Did they have to get consent from each resident (or relative with a POA)?
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally too, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
There's no point wasting canvassing time on the known "Antis" or indeed your firm supporters. If it's a local election, I always concentrated on those with a record of voting - start with the "Probables" and firm them up then look at any new voters who have never been canvassed and any "DK" who voted last time.
A GE is very different as you say - split votes, many more voters (anything up to double the number) and it's a bigger area so more resources and time needed. A "snap" election was always the biggest challenge in terms of logistics. Local elections are much easier. Ongoing local activity helps a lot in gathering the intelligence to help canvassing and targeted mailing (or social media as I imagine it is these days).
Yes but HYUFD seems to have nothing but contempt for "swing" voters.
I've voted Tory in the last five General Elections in a row, including the losing 2005 election, and he views me contemptuously as "not a real Tory who should f##k off and join the Liberal Democrats".
Odd philosophy. 🤔
I take the points others have made - but what if you were threatening to **** off and join Mr Farage's lot (whatsoever they might be called)?
I would have thought the more successful canvassing technique would be to give reasons not to - not say "f##k off then we don't want your kind voting for us anyway".
I can see, from a canvassers point of view, that there's little benefit to pissing about when someone pretty clearly will not be inclined to vote for you, and hanging about would be wasting your time.
However, people are not completely stupid, and if the canvasser clearly holds them in utter contempt (and when someone has such contempt for floating voters it seems impossible that they can conceal it very well, even if they try) then for starters if there were even potentially considering returning to the true path it may put them off, and for seconds it may well harden their attitude considerably such that, locally at any rate, they won't be inclined to consider the party for the future. It need not be many to have an effect at a local level at least, which can swing on small numbers.
It is true to say that any conservative candidate who allowed HYUFD anywhere near him would see me vote for the best alternative as I reject his appalling views comprehensively
Just seen a comment from a remainy young person I know on Twitter demanding the government apologise "unreservedly to us and the WORLD for the new strain of Covid WE cultivated on our own shores".
Just seen a comment from a remainy young person I know on Twitter demanding the government apologise "unreservedly to us and the WORLD for the new strain of Covid WE cultivated on our own shores".
Words fail me......
Deary me. I would not be entirely surprised to see some senior political figures abroad fall into that strain of thinking.
It does seem remarkable on 21/12/20 with transition ending on 31/12/20 just how little mention the lack of a Brexit deal is getting, except for on this site.
Covid really has upended all the assumptions of the 2017-19 Parliament.
Not really Brexit was done on 31st January 2020.
Everything afterwards is just negotiations which will continue for the next 20+ years.
It does seem remarkable on 21/12/20 with transition ending on 31/12/20 just how little mention the lack of a Brexit deal is getting, except for on this site.
Covid really has upended all the assumptions of the 2017-19 Parliament.
As you've said before, it's whether people notice in January that's important. In terms of establishing a narrative of, "Yes, that's a little disruption, but not as much as feared," it would be more helpful to you for expectations now to be calibrated by wall-to-wall Brexit doom.
Why?
Seems to me its going to be ignored in the wall-to-wall Covid doom.
I've never watched Elf as I find Will Ferrell very annoying, and have seen only half the total list. I may have overloaded on cheesy Hallmark Xmas movies.
Elf is probably his best film. It is my wife's all time favourite.
Can't believe it could be better than the Eurovision film.
I've never watched Elf as I find Will Ferrell very annoying, and have seen only half the total list. I may have overloaded on cheesy Hallmark Xmas movies.
Yes but Ferrell is very well cast, as the title role is a bit annoying. A great Christmas film.
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally too, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
There's no point wasting canvassing time on the known "Antis" or indeed your firm supporters. If it's a local election, I always concentrated on those with a record of voting - start with the "Probables" and firm them up then look at any new voters who have never been canvassed and any "DK" who voted last time.
A GE is very different as you say - split votes, many more voters (anything up to double the number) and it's a bigger area so more resources and time needed. A "snap" election was always the biggest challenge in terms of logistics. Local elections are much easier. Ongoing local activity helps a lot in gathering the intelligence to help canvassing and targeted mailing (or social media as I imagine it is these days).
Yes but HYUFD seems to have nothing but contempt for "swing" voters.
I've voted Tory in the last five General Elections in a row, including the losing 2005 election, and he views me contemptuously as "not a real Tory who should f##k off and join the Liberal Democrats".
Odd philosophy. 🤔
I take the points others have made - but what if you were threatening to **** off and join Mr Farage's lot (whatsoever they might be called)?
I would have thought the more successful canvassing technique would be to give reasons not to - not say "f##k off then we don't want your kind voting for us anyway".
I can see, from a canvassers point of view, that there's little benefit to pissing about when someone pretty clearly will not be inclined to vote for you, and hanging about would be wasting your time.
However, people are not completely stupid, and if the canvasser clearly holds them in utter contempt (and when someone has such contempt for floating voters it seems impossible that they can conceal it very well, even if they try) then for starters if there were even potentially considering returning to the true path it may put them off, and for seconds it may well harden their attitude considerably such that, locally at any rate, they won't be inclined to consider the party for the future. It need not be many to have an effect at a local level at least, which can swing on small numbers.
It is true to say that any conservative candidate who allowed HYUFD anywhere near him would see me vote for the best alternative as I reject his appalling views comprehensively
Just because he plans on invading Wales (yesterday in a conversation re' Adam Price) and Scotland.
It does seem remarkable on 21/12/20 with transition ending on 31/12/20 just how little mention the lack of a Brexit deal is getting, except for on this site.
Covid really has upended all the assumptions of the 2017-19 Parliament.
As you've said before, it's whether people notice in January that's important. In terms of establishing a narrative of, "Yes, that's a little disruption, but not as much as feared," it would be more helpful to you for expectations now to be calibrated by wall-to-wall Brexit doom.
Why?
Seems to me its going to be ignored in the wall-to-wall Covid doom.
It`s not on the radars of the leavers that I know, who are not particularly politically engaged anyway (unless you count reading the Daily Mail) and are just pleased that we are no longer in the EU.
I've never watched Elf as I find Will Ferrell very annoying, and have seen only half the total list. I may have overloaded on cheesy Hallmark Xmas movies.
Yes but Ferrell is very well cast, as the title role is a bit annoying. A great Christmas film.
So I am told. There's a fine line with characters who are deliberately annoying, like with characters who are deliberately unlikeable, in that you have to still be interested in watching them. If you and Philip_Thompson's wife are fans, I guess it cannot be all that bad.
I've never watched Elf as I find Will Ferrell very annoying, and have seen only half the total list. I may have overloaded on cheesy Hallmark Xmas movies.
Yes but Ferrell is very well cast, as the title role is a bit annoying. A great Christmas film.
Its a shame Ferrell's success went to his own head as Elf and Anchorman are both very funny and very original.
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally too, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
There's no point wasting canvassing time on the known "Antis" or indeed your firm supporters. If it's a local election, I always concentrated on those with a record of voting - start with the "Probables" and firm them up then look at any new voters who have never been canvassed and any "DK" who voted last time.
A GE is very different as you say - split votes, many more voters (anything up to double the number) and it's a bigger area so more resources and time needed. A "snap" election was always the biggest challenge in terms of logistics. Local elections are much easier. Ongoing local activity helps a lot in gathering the intelligence to help canvassing and targeted mailing (or social media as I imagine it is these days).
Yes but HYUFD seems to have nothing but contempt for "swing" voters.
I've voted Tory in the last five General Elections in a row, including the losing 2005 election, and he views me contemptuously as "not a real Tory who should f##k off and join the Liberal Democrats".
Odd philosophy. 🤔
I take the points others have made - but what if you were threatening to **** off and join Mr Farage's lot (whatsoever they might be called)?
I would have thought the more successful canvassing technique would be to give reasons not to - not say "f##k off then we don't want your kind voting for us anyway".
I can see, from a canvassers point of view, that there's little benefit to pissing about when someone pretty clearly will not be inclined to vote for you, and hanging about would be wasting your time.
However, people are not completely stupid, and if the canvasser clearly holds them in utter contempt (and when someone has such contempt for floating voters it seems impossible that they can conceal it very well, even if they try) then for starters if there were even potentially considering returning to the true path it may put them off, and for seconds it may well harden their attitude considerably such that, locally at any rate, they won't be inclined to consider the party for the future. It need not be many to have an effect at a local level at least, which can swing on small numbers.
It is true to say that any conservative candidate who allowed HYUFD anywhere near him would see me vote for the best alternative as I reject his appalling views comprehensively
Just because he plans on invading Wales (yesterday in a conversation re' Adam Price) and Scotland.
If you voted Tory nationally last time but vote LD locally I would certainly be interested in persuading you to support the Tories locally too, if you voted LD nationally as well as locally there is little point in bothering
There's no point wasting canvassing time on the known "Antis" or indeed your firm supporters. If it's a local election, I always concentrated on those with a record of voting - start with the "Probables" and firm them up then look at any new voters who have never been canvassed and any "DK" who voted last time.
A GE is very different as you say - split votes, many more voters (anything up to double the number) and it's a bigger area so more resources and time needed. A "snap" election was always the biggest challenge in terms of logistics. Local elections are much easier. Ongoing local activity helps a lot in gathering the intelligence to help canvassing and targeted mailing (or social media as I imagine it is these days).
Yes but HYUFD seems to have nothing but contempt for "swing" voters.
I've voted Tory in the last five General Elections in a row, including the losing 2005 election, and he views me contemptuously as "not a real Tory who should f##k off and join the Liberal Democrats".
Odd philosophy. 🤔
I take the points others have made - but what if you were threatening to **** off and join Mr Farage's lot (whatsoever they might be called)?
I would have thought the more successful canvassing technique would be to give reasons not to - not say "f##k off then we don't want your kind voting for us anyway".
I can see, from a canvassers point of view, that there's little benefit to pissing about when someone pretty clearly will not be inclined to vote for you, and hanging about would be wasting your time.
However, people are not completely stupid, and if the canvasser clearly holds them in utter contempt (and when someone has such contempt for floating voters it seems impossible that they can conceal it very well, even if they try) then for starters if there were even potentially considering returning to the true path it may put them off, and for seconds it may well harden their attitude considerably such that, locally at any rate, they won't be inclined to consider the party for the future. It need not be many to have an effect at a local level at least, which can swing on small numbers.
It is true to say that any conservative candidate who allowed HYUFD anywhere near him would see me vote for the best alternative as I reject his appalling views comprehensively
Just because he plans on invading Wales (yesterday in a conversation re' Adam Price) and Scotland.
OMG has @HYUFD opened up another front? We are going to need considerably more troops.
Comments
Again, services is a wild west of international governance. Being in or out of the single market where isn't really going to make a big difference. Even now without a customs deal being in our out of the single market is basically the difference of tariffs and no tariffs which is essentially a bit of inflation.
As has already been pointed out by plenty of people in the know it looks like the main reason we picked this up first in the UK is because we have the ability to do so. Questions have already been raised about the way in which the situation has deteriorated in Germany, Sweden, France and Italy over the last few weeks even though the new mutation had not formally been identified there. Of course I don't know any more than anyone else outside of the scientists but I would not be surprised at all to find that when a closer look is taken at these second waves we find that the mutations were already widespread across Europe and elsewhere even before we identified them in the UK.
How much longer do we need to have these arguments? When can a decision be made?
https://twitter.com/HzBrandenburg/status/1340995520232378368
Initially it was supposed to be that they were just a team of saddos off the internet combing through all publicly available data on maps and social media to find things out.
However, the scoops they get seem further and further than that.
"I voted LD last time."
" OK piss off, we don't want your kind voting Tory ..."
But it is good that we are now all acknowledging there are significant downsides to the end of the transition. At some point, we may see some upsides. Here's hoping.
And even if it wasn't widespread outside the UK a couple of weeks ago, it almost certainly is now. It's also bound to be in all the lower-tier areas in the UK (in large quantities, as youngsters seem to have left London in large numbers to go home to their parents' houses). The government is once again hoping for the best and acting too late.
Why HYUFD, it profit a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world. . . but for Epping Forest!
We won't get to the eventual upsides if we never get through the bottom part of the hockey stick.
Considering the overwhelming majority of 18 year olds don't vote Tory, that's an interesting philosophy to have.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55396027
This piece sums up the majority of the West's failing approach to COVID. I deserve to make new memories, I was excited to go to France for Christmas, etc.
Compare to Australia, you not Australian, ain't coming in...end of...if you are, in that hotel room for 2 weeks, no ifs, no buts.
The trumpistas cannot abide the Romneyites.
And vice versa.
https://twitter.com/THR/status/1341038217747963906?s=20
And of course detection in Kent followed by London suggests it may have come from France
One reason the mutated virus was spotted in the UK might be that the country has pursued such “genomic epidemiology” aggressively. For example, British labs contributed fully 45% of the 275,000 coronavirus sequences deposited to the global GISAID database, according to a threat assessment brief from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control.
According to the COVID-19 Genomics Consortium UK, the coalition of labs that’s been sequencing viruses, the variant was first spotted on September 20 in Kent and a day later in London.
A GE is very different as you say - split votes, many more voters (anything up to double the number) and it's a bigger area so more resources and time needed. A "snap" election was always the biggest challenge in terms of logistics. Local elections are much easier. Ongoing local activity helps a lot in gathering the intelligence to help canvassing and targeted mailing (or social media as I imagine it is these days).
I can sort of understand why some elected politicians should jump the queue - and if they are going to do some of them, they might as well do all 538 of them. And Hispanics are the single most affected ethnic group in the US, so having AOC get the shot might help in the messaging, despite the other optics, given her youth and health.
I've voted Tory in the last five General Elections in a row, including the losing 2005 election, and he views me contemptuously as "not a real Tory who should f##k off and join the Liberal Democrats".
Odd philosophy. 🤔
It’s a dangerous game they’re playing.
Leave it to the experts!
More Tier fourage?
Can;t he leave us alone for ten minutes?
It's not as though Boris is typically accused of working too hard and involving himself too much.
Whatever one thinks of Sunak, he's certainly a high profile politician.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3lf8wGYCXvhcwFYr7b5hQgf/the-twelve-films-of-christmas-revealed?xtor=ES-211-[39350_PANUK_NLB_51_XMAS1_+FamilyFun+_RET]-20201221-[bbcradio2_thetwelvefilmsofchristmasvoteresultchristmasfilms_film]
Johnson doesn't mind the easy questions from the journos. No so keen on Sir Keir.
Insult to injury...
Lorry drivers parked up on roads in Kent slapped with Parking Fines
Look at his track record after all!
Home Alone is at number 4. It is beaten by number 2.
FFS how could anybody do that?
Was there a Kim Kardashian option?
Covid really has upended all the assumptions of the 2017-19 Parliament.
However, people are not completely stupid, and if the canvasser clearly holds them in utter contempt (and when someone has such contempt for floating voters it seems impossible that they can conceal it very well, even if they try) then for starters if thy were even potentially considering returning to the true path it may put them off, and for seconds it may well harden their attitude considerably such that, locally at any rate, they won't be inclined to consider the party for the future. It need not be many to have an effect at a local level at least, which can swing on small numbers.
Words fail me...... if this new strain popped up anywhere else but the UK he wouldn't be demanding an apology from that state.
Did your uncle`s care home receive a visit from medics to administer the jabs to all the residents in one go, or were the residents transported somewhere? Did they have to get consent from each resident (or relative with a POA)?
Everything afterwards is just negotiations which will continue for the next 20+ years.
Seems to me its going to be ignored in the wall-to-wall Covid doom.
https://twitter.com/unherd/status/1341050883925270529
There are a lot of students now stuck in the UK...