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Merry Christmas: rising Covid cases, No Deal Brexit, recession and maybe lockdown – politicalbetting

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  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    eek said:

    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:

    LadyG said:

    the Tories won't allow a vote until 2024.

    They can't stop it.

    It would not be legally binding in very limited and specific ways, but BoZo has set the precedent for that.

    Twat.
    Holyrood does not have the power to call a referendum. That's all there is to it. Calling me "twat" does not change the law. Sorry.
    I'm not sure that's true - while they may not be able to hold a referendum with a binding result in law, I'm sure they could hold an indicative vote say something like the Brexit vote in 2016.
    As I say below, if the vote was not sanctioned by Westminster - as in a legally binding referendum like indyref1 - it would be boycotted by No voters. The same thing happened in Catalunya and it did the Catalunyan indy cause no good at all.

    It's just not going to happen.
    I think scenes of the security forces dragging grannies out of polling stations was a positive for the independence cause.
    And yet Catalunyan independence now looks further away than it has done for many years. Breaking the law was a fatal error by the Catalan indy leaders.

    Sturgeon is too canny to do that, though she is surrounded by dangerous nutters who are prepared to take this crazy road. It will be an interesting and fiery debate within the SNP.
    What law would the SNP be breaking by having an advisory referendum?
    Depends on how they funded it. If they used public money without Westminster’s sanction, that would be outside their powers and therefore malfeasance.

    If they funded it philanthropically that might be different, but equally nobody would pay much notice to it.
    Utter bollox , the Scottish government can hold referendums if they wish and very easy to have a question well within their powers , they are not dumbos like Westminster.
    Hard to believe the tossers on here who believe Scotland is like a pet dog that has to do exactly as it is told by some arseholes in Westminster.
    Well, you have to believe us Malc because regardless of what you want we’re right and you’re wrong.

    And Sturgeon, who is not stupid, also knows this.
    Who knows what way the court vote would go
    How about, ‘anyone who’s bothered to study the relevant laws?’
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,848

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    This just cannot be right if you go by this forum

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1337777940445138947?s=19

    If allegedly witty (re-)tweets and memes reflected real-world opinion, Labour would indeed be 20 points ahead. But fortunately they don't.
    Yes the real world often lets us down. But we keep the faith, us dreamers.
    "Only the special ones. ..... poets, dreamers, blessed lunatics... we enshrine them."
    You should always bear in mind one persons idyllic dream maybe someone elses nightmare
    The origin of the quote makes it funnier - and your comment apt....
    Indeed and one wonders if they will be collecting mr Corbyn at the right time
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,072
    edited December 2020
    I must admit, I'm not that bothered by the dynamic alignment provisions: firstly, they're not actually particularly onerous; secondly, given we generally have higher standards in the area of state aid than the EU the issue is probably moot anyway; and thirdly and most importantly, if things change so it was an issue further down the line, we would be in a much better position to "give notice" on the FTA, as we'd have already diverged in other areas from the EU. (The EU's point of maximum leverage is now. If we don't like what they do in five years time, we can renegotiate from a position of greater strength.)

    I'm much more incensed by fish, where I think the EU (and particularly France) has behaved pretty appallingly. I would "hang tough" on this. (Although the British fishing fleet wouldn't thank me for what I'd do afterwards: I'd auction the British quotas to anyone anywhere who wants to fish, and maximise the revenue for the Exchequer.)
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,072
    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
  • Options
    Essexit said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    It's telling that David Henig (who'er he) doesn't want to engage with substance of Harwood's argument though.
    What would be the point? The Leavers would only tell him it is his fault for being a Remainer.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,147
    edited December 2020
    The chances of the Trump era ending peacefully seem to be slipping away.

    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1337820585380999170?s=21
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,593
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    This just cannot be right if you go by this forum

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1337777940445138947?s=19

    If allegedly witty (re-)tweets and memes reflected real-world opinion, Labour would indeed be 20 points ahead. But fortunately they don't.
    Yes the real world often lets us down. But we keep the faith, us dreamers.
    "Only the special ones. ..... poets, dreamers, blessed lunatics... we enshrine them."
    You should always bear in mind one persons idyllic dream maybe someone elses nightmare
    The origin of the quote makes it funnier - and your comment apt....
    Indeed and one wonders if they will be collecting mr Corbyn at the right time
    Now I am imagining the Baldrick of Soul Hunters....

    {Scene - Soul Hunters comparing their collections }

    Soul Hunter 1 : Hitler, Stalin, Mao
    Soul Hunter 2 : Newton, Gallileo, Copernicus
    Baldrick the Soul Hunter: Corbyn...
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,016
    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    They don't take one for one. Quite often stuff is dual priced in shops. And is automatic on the tills, certainly in bigger shops. You'll get a better rate at a bank.
    Of course no one forces anyone to do this. But it isn't monetary sovereignty in a pure sense.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,848
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
  • Options

    How are things going? Have the PB Tories started bombing the continent yet? Or will they retreat into show trials of the Remainers first to increase the nation's Brexit Purity?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990


    How are things going? Have the PB Tories started bombing the continent yet? Or will they retreat into show trials of the Remainers first to increase the nation's Brexit Purity?

    Who says we can't do both at once?
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,095
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,848
    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    They don't take one for one. Quite often stuff is dual priced in shops. And is automatic on the tills, certainly in bigger shops. You'll get a better rate at a bank.
    Of course no one forces anyone to do this. But it isn't monetary sovereignty in a pure sense.
    I was going by how ireland used to do it when I used to be over regularly in the nineties and noughties
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,072
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That article is almost two years old. Two years ago, my phone didn't do contactless payments, and most stores didn't take them.

    Things change.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,593
    edited December 2020
    Salmon in pastry....

    800-1000g Salmon
    2 sheets pre-rolled puff pastry
    Onions, leeks, courgettes - any old vegetables of that sort.
    Jar of red pesto

    1) Layout one sheet of the pastry on a baking tray.
    2) lay the salmon on top of it - try to leave an inch or clear all the way round.
    3) Fry the vegetables until soft. Leave to cool a bit.
    4) Use about half the jar of the pesto to coat the salmon
    5) Mix out the rest of th pesto and the vegetables.
    6) Place the veg on top of the salmon.
    7) Cover with the other sheet of pastry.
    8) Crimp the edges together all round
    9) Oven at 200 C
    10 Egg wash (mix up an egg and paint) the pastry
    11) Put in the oven while you watch The Sound Barrier. When they buy the newspaper that tells them Geoffrey De Havilland has been killed, it's done.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,095
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That article is almost two years old. Two years ago, my phone didn't do contactless payments, and most stores didn't take them.

    Things change.
    I wonder if "Access to Cash" would consider me having a £1 coin in my car for a trolly as "routinely uses cash".
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,848
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That article is almost two years old. Two years ago, my phone didn't do contactless payments, and most stores didn't take them.

    Things change.
    Not by that much found this more recent overview
    https://www.frbsf.org/cash/publications/fed-notes/2019/june/2019-findings-from-the-diary-of-consumer-payment-choice/#:~:text=Consumers used cash in 26,percentage point increase from 2017
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
  • Options
    RobD said:


    How are things going? Have the PB Tories started bombing the continent yet? Or will they retreat into show trials of the Remainers first to increase the nation's Brexit Purity?

    Who says we can't do both at once?
    Only the daft would fight a war on two fronts.

    (Pauses)

    Err... OK

    :D:D:D
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,593
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That article is almost two years old. Two years ago, my phone didn't do contactless payments, and most stores didn't take them.

    Things change.
    As with other things, COVID has massively celebrated the trend. Everyone* now takes contactless payments, for even the smallest transactions.

    *Not managed to find someone who hasn't, since March.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,072
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That article is almost two years old. Two years ago, my phone didn't do contactless payments, and most stores didn't take them.

    Things change.
    Not by that much found this more recent overview
    https://www.frbsf.org/cash/publications/fed-notes/2019/june/2019-findings-from-the-diary-of-consumer-payment-choice/#:~:text=Consumers used cash in 26,percentage point increase from 2017
    That's still from June 2019, 18 months ago!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,072

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That article is almost two years old. Two years ago, my phone didn't do contactless payments, and most stores didn't take them.

    Things change.
    As with other things, COVID has massively celebrated the trend. Everyone* now takes contactless payments, for even the smallest transactions.

    *Not managed to find someone who hasn't, since March.
    That's a very good point.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,095
    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Depends what you define as "routine cash usage".

    I withdraw £20 a month to get my hair cut and that is it. It's a source of much annoyance that they don't take card.

    Of course it is anecdotal but I don't know a single person under 30, regardless of their political views, their job, and whether they live in a city or in the country that will routinely carry cash. Why would they? Cash sucks.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,833
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That maybe obsolete in 2020. The only things that I have paid cash for in the last month has been my haircut and some takeaway fish and chips.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Of course famously in 1994 Strathc
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    People are really going to need to point me to the law the Scottish government would be breaking in having an advisory referendum.

    As far as I am aware the Scottish government has the power to hold plebiscites.

    Not on constitutional matters. Or at least, not without the prior sanction of Westminster.

    Even if it wasn’t clear in the Scotland Act 1998 (which it was) the precedent of 2014 would be sufficient to see such a measure struck down.

    But as I said, they could hold one as long as they didn’t use public funds for it.
    The referendum won't have any effect on the constitution. It will be advisory. Non binding. Just like the previous one and Brexit.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,095
    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That maybe obsolete in 2020. The only things that I have paid cash for in the last month has been my haircut and some takeaway fish and chips.
    I order my takeaway fish and chips online these days and simply collect. It's great.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,593
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That article is almost two years old. Two years ago, my phone didn't do contactless payments, and most stores didn't take them.

    Things change.
    As with other things, COVID has massively celebrated the trend. Everyone* now takes contactless payments, for even the smallest transactions.

    *Not managed to find someone who hasn't, since March.
    That's a very good point.
    Even the corner shop operators, who had "Minimum card transaction £10" signs are 100% contactless for a can of coke now.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    edited December 2020

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Depends what you define as "routine cash usage".

    I withdraw £20 a month to get my hair cut and that is it. It's a source of much annoyance that they don't take card.

    Of course it is anecdotal but I don't know a single person under 30, regardless of their political views, their job, and whether they live in a city or in the country that will routinely carry cash. Why would they? Cash sucks.
    I'd say at least twice/three times a week on a very regular basis would count. I was interested in surveys by age group on cash usage. Admittedly it might be too soon for those to have been conducted post Covid.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,848
    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,245
    For context:


  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,593
    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    Certain Fintech comptines in the credit card business are very, very happy that happened.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,095
    edited December 2020
    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    I must admit, I'm not that bothered by the dynamic alignment provisions: firstly, they're not actually particularly onerous; secondly, given we generally have higher standards in the area of state aid than the EU the issue is probably moot anyway; and thirdly and most importantly, if things change so it was an issue further down the line, we would be in a much better position to "give notice" on the FTA, as we'd have already diverged in other areas from the EU. (The EU's point of maximum leverage is now. If we don't like what they do in five years time, we can renegotiate from a position of greater strength.)

    I'm much more incensed by fish, where I think the EU (and particularly France) has behaved pretty appallingly. I would "hang tough" on this. (Although the British fishing fleet wouldn't thank me for what I'd do afterwards: I'd auction the British quotas to anyone anywhere who wants to fish, and maximise the revenue for the Exchequer.)

    I totally agree with this.

    It's a massive cliché: I'm desperate for a deal but not at any price. It has to be fair.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,245
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Depends what you define as "routine cash usage".

    I withdraw £20 a month to get my hair cut and that is it. It's a source of much annoyance that they don't take card.

    Of course it is anecdotal but I don't know a single person under 30, regardless of their political views, their job, and whether they live in a city or in the country that will routinely carry cash. Why would they? Cash sucks.
    I'd say at least twice/three times a week on a very regular basis would count. I was interested in surveys by age group on cash usage. Admittedly it might be too soon for those to have been conducted post Covid.
    I’ve used cash I think 3 times in 2020. Paying a bloke for a ride on a toy train on the south coast. A barber on a tax dodge. And a mini cab doing the same.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,095
    moonshine said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Depends what you define as "routine cash usage".

    I withdraw £20 a month to get my hair cut and that is it. It's a source of much annoyance that they don't take card.

    Of course it is anecdotal but I don't know a single person under 30, regardless of their political views, their job, and whether they live in a city or in the country that will routinely carry cash. Why would they? Cash sucks.
    I'd say at least twice/three times a week on a very regular basis would count. I was interested in surveys by age group on cash usage. Admittedly it might be too soon for those to have been conducted post Covid.
    I’ve used cash I think 3 times in 2020. Paying a bloke for a ride on a toy train on the south coast. A barber on a tax dodge. And a mini cab doing the same.
    "On a tax dodge" is pretty much the only reason not to accept cards these days.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,848

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    I must admit, I'm not that bothered by the dynamic alignment provisions: firstly, they're not actually particularly onerous; secondly, given we generally have higher standards in the area of state aid than the EU the issue is probably moot anyway; and thirdly and most importantly, if things change so it was an issue further down the line, we would be in a much better position to "give notice" on the FTA, as we'd have already diverged in other areas from the EU. (The EU's point of maximum leverage is now. If we don't like what they do in five years time, we can renegotiate from a position of greater strength.)

    I'm much more incensed by fish, where I think the EU (and particularly France) has behaved pretty appallingly. I would "hang tough" on this. (Although the British fishing fleet wouldn't thank me for what I'd do afterwards: I'd auction the British quotas to anyone anywhere who wants to fish, and maximise the revenue for the Exchequer.)

    I am amazed that the fishermen have not figured out where the real enemy is - and it is not in Brussels.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,095
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,833
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That article is almost two years old. Two years ago, my phone didn't do contactless payments, and most stores didn't take them.

    Things change.
    Not by that much found this more recent overview
    https://www.frbsf.org/cash/publications/fed-notes/2019/june/2019-findings-from-the-diary-of-consumer-payment-choice/#:~:text=Consumers used cash in 26,percentage point increase from 2017
    That's still from June 2019, 18 months ago!
    Yes, the years BC...
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    Pagan2 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Pagan2 said:



    While I can understand that view it does have a problem. By the time we get that far it would be even more difficult for a country to leave than it currently is. Frankly I think this decade is the last that it will be possible to leave the eu. I would suggest it is already pretty much impossible to leave if you are in the eurozone

    And yet the Scots are still keen on leaving the UK, a much longer-standing tie.

    Good evening, everyone.
    Good evening and I support scottish independence if the scots want it I also up thread said that the break away would be likely an order of magnitude harder to do. I didn't however say therefore it shouldn't be done. What was the point you thought you were making?
    That I find it reassuring they haven't been put off by the difficulties encountered during Brexit. If they still expect to come out the other end of Independence in good shape then there's hope for us now the other end of Brexit. It's a counterweight to the perpetual doom & gloom.

    For me, anyway.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Using cryptocurrency, perhaps, but not a credit/debit card?
  • Options
    On vaccines I'm starting to agree with @TSE that HMG will merrily f*ck-up rapid vaccine roll-out. A few thousand will happen before Christmas, and then it'll fizzle out.

    That's not a political point - still less a Brexit one - it's just the public sector and civil service are really shit at rapid complex large-scale programmes.

    They're good at policy papers and media angles - not delivery.
  • Options

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    The relentless whinge of the media Brexiteer will become the muzak of our time. The background to everything.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Depends what you define as "routine cash usage".

    I withdraw £20 a month to get my hair cut and that is it. It's a source of much annoyance that they don't take card.

    Of course it is anecdotal but I don't know a single person under 30, regardless of their political views, their job, and whether they live in a city or in the country that will routinely carry cash. Why would they? Cash sucks.
    How do they pay for drugs?
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,798
    LadyG said:

    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:

    LadyG said:

    Holyrood does not have the power to call a referendum. That's all there is to it. Calling me "twat" does not change the law. Sorry.

    The twat was for BoZo, not you, but of course Holyrood can call a referendum

    It would not be legally binding in very limited and specific ways, but BoZo has set the precedent for that.
    Such a vote would be boycotted en masse by No voters. Rendering it politically pointless and deeply destructive of the Indy cause. There might be legal action against Nat politicians. The chances of indy would be set back by many years.

    That really would be a disaster for the SNP and Sturgeon is far too sensible to go down that insane road. Which is why she is refusing to countenance it.
    Then what's the SNPs best option? Presumably to hold out until an election where a hung parliament is possible. But what is peak indy has passed?

    This is why many indy voters (myself included) would like to know what the SNP Plan B is.

    Plan A, just hoping that Boris will merely magically relent on the grounds of democracy when the SNP win big at another election is not in of itself a bad plan per se, but it being the sole plan would seem to be bordering on the criminally insane.
    Plan B is to take Westminster to the courts and then hold an "advisory" referendum if the courts rule against. But crucially not to mention this before Plan A is rejected.

    The whole reason Sturgeon has got support for independence so high is the slowly, slowly don't frighten the horses approach. The "Yes" vote is very soft. It currently has a lot of people who are attracted by Sturgeon's "reasonableness".

    If Sturgeon lays out the whole plan step by step to a wildcat referendum then that does two things
    A ) It gives Johnson every reason to refuse consent for a Westminster sanctioned referendum
    B ) it strips her of the aura of restraint.

    She is leading non-dedicated Yessers step by step towards voting for Indy in a wildcat referendum. that can only be done with blinkers on otherwise they will shy away from the ballot box.
    She may go to court. But the court will say No. It's a matter reserved for Westminster. That's where her cunning plan crashes to a halt.

    The Tories will advise their voters to boycott an illegal referendum. Maybe Labour too. And the LDs. Result chaos, and a useless, incendiary, non-binding vote which makes the SNP look very dodgy and has no legal power.

    Sturgeon's plan is to create a consensus for independence. She's nearly there, having converted a clear No majority to 55% or so Yes. At that point it doesn't matter what shenanigans the Tories throw in, they will be seen as such. Irredentist Unionists are about 20% of the Scottish population and are the bedrock of the Scottish Conservative vote. The other 35% who voted No in the last referendum is in play. The other point to be aware of if that most Scots are nationalists. If they support the Union, it is by consent and in what they perceive as Scotland's interest. Johnson is following exactly the wrong playbook on this.

    However, I do agree the SNP are capable of screwing this up big time. I just wouldn't rely on them doing so.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,848

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Because they haven't cracked down yet doesn't mean they will and people have been prosecuted for using electronic money to buy drugs. It most certainly isn't anonymous. As soon as the police work out applebys apple pies is a front for selling drugs they just have to do a simple database search to find all the customers
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413
    edited December 2020

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That article is almost two years old. Two years ago, my phone didn't do contactless payments, and most stores didn't take them.

    Things change.
    As with other things, COVID has massively celebrated the trend. Everyone* now takes contactless payments, for even the smallest transactions.

    *Not managed to find someone who hasn't, since March.
    Still lots of shops/takeaways round here that don’t take cards.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,095
    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Using cryptocurrency, perhaps, but not a credit/debit card?
    The argument was that the decline of cash means that transactions cannot be anonymous.

    However that is not true 'cos cryptocurrency.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    Foxy said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    To think we are just a year on from that Oven Ready Deal, whose political declaration covered the LPF issue...
    To misquote Enoch Powell on media coverage - "A British politician who complains about Europe is like a ship's captain who complains about the sea."
  • Options

    The chances of the Trump era ending peacefully seem to be slipping away.

    twitter.com/atrupar/status/1337820585380999170?s=21

    Perhaps this is when we see if the US military will uphold and protect the Constitution?
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,245

    On vaccines I'm starting to agree with @TSE that HMG will merrily f*ck-up rapid vaccine roll-out. A few thousand will happen before Christmas, and then it'll fizzle out.

    That's not a political point - still less a Brexit one - it's just the public sector and civil service are really shit at rapid complex large-scale programmes.

    They're good at policy papers and media angles - not delivery.

    That we haven’t received an update on how many have been given yet concerns me. Takes a while to ramp but I’d have wanted an announcement that we were half a million in by now. How many in one Pfizer box? Was it 1000? Using 500 boxes around the whole country in 5 days should have been easily doable shouldnt it?
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    On vaccines I'm starting to agree with @TSE that HMG will merrily f*ck-up rapid vaccine roll-out. A few thousand will happen before Christmas, and then it'll fizzle out.

    That's not a political point - still less a Brexit one - it's just the public sector and civil service are really shit at rapid complex large-scale programmes.

    They're good at policy papers and media angles - not delivery.

    I thought they were handing it over to the military
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    On vaccines I'm starting to agree with @TSE that HMG will merrily f*ck-up rapid vaccine roll-out. A few thousand will happen before Christmas, and then it'll fizzle out.

    That's not a political point - still less a Brexit one - it's just the public sector and civil service are really shit at rapid complex large-scale programmes.

    They're good at policy papers and media angles - not delivery.

    Are there stats on how the roll-out is progressing?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,593
    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That maybe obsolete in 2020. The only things that I have paid cash for in the last month has been my haircut and some takeaway fish and chips.
    Round here, the kebab shops and chippies were first out the gate in getting the cheap versions of card payment terminals.

    For those who don't know - the regular ones you see in most shops have the most horrendous pricing structure behind them. Which falls on the retailers.
  • Options

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    Bitcoin isn't anonymous.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,095
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Because they haven't cracked down yet doesn't mean they will and people have been prosecuted for using electronic money to buy drugs. It most certainly isn't anonymous. As soon as the police work out applebys apple pies is a front for selling drugs they just have to do a simple database search to find all the customers
    I'm sorry but this just shows a complete lack of understanding of the modern world.

    People buy cryptocurrency and then use *that* to buy drugs.

    Cryptocurrency is anonymous. Do some research.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,095

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    Bitcoin isn't anonymous.
    Transactions are public but who owns what is anonymous.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,340

    LadyG said:

    nico679 said:

    How sad that with vaccines coming the last wave is going to be the worst .

    How many families are going to be having huge regrets post Christmas . January is going to be horrific when we just needed one last effort it was all thrown away . Tragic .

    Couldn't agree more. Christmas should have been cancelled. Brutal, but effective.
    And the sad thing is the public would largely support a lockdown now

    They are not stupid, our politicians most certainly are and that includes Sturgeon, Drakeford and Foster as well as Boris

    Wales just gets worse and worse and our self imposed isolation Xmas is wholly justified and supported by our family
    I am out and about across South Wales for work. The motorways are choc-a-bloc, supermarket car parks (and presumably) supermarkets are rammed full. Hardly anyone is socially distancing, although mask wearing is good. People are ignoring the Welsh Government. The Welsh Government have lost control!

    Yesterday I had to go to Portsmouth, I expected England to be more subdued. However, the motorways were choc-a-bloc, supermarket car parks (and presumably) supermarkets are rammed full. Hardly anyone is socially distancing, although mask wearing is good. People are ignoring the Government...

    Southern England is a couple of weeks behind us I fear. Johnson therefore timed his lockdown to perfection for Christmas, Welsh Government did not. We will lockdown for three weeks on the 28th. We should already be locked down.
    The public would support a Chinese style lockdown - weld everyone in their houses. Cancel Christmas.

    Except that they would each need to have 175 people road for one quiet drink. Every single day. Because *feelings*.
    I was specifically referring to the horrific figures in Wales. Boris has done really, really well, timing his lockdown to perfection. Wales went too early and too short.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited December 2020

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    Bitcoin isn't anonymous.
    Transactions are public but who owns what is anonymous.
    Even then....it isn't anywhere near as anonymous as people think. Hence there are cyrpto mixer services and also other cyrpto that claim better anonymous features.
  • Options
    LadyG said:

    nico679 said:

    The reality is that Scotland can’t hold another binding referendum unless it’s in line with the constitutional requirements of the UK unless that is the Supreme Court do something outlandish if any court action ends up there . Even if you got a good turnout internationally it won’t be seen as legitimate.

    The irony of course that support for Indy will be at its highest during this Parliament so it’s frustrating for the SNP . If Labour get in I’d expect support for Indy to fall . Personally I think if the SNP get a majority next year then Westminster shouldn’t stand in the way but that’s not going to happen under Johnson.

    A big issue with a UDI is it won’t get international recognition and on economic terms you won’t be able to raise money on the markets which all countries need to do .

    Separating Scotland from the rest of the UK is going to be very complex and you’d need huge co-operation to do that so as much as I can understand the frustration of Scots it’s impossible to see any other way than doing this on the same terms as in 2014.

    Also, of course, Scotland seceding via an advisory referendum called by the Nats against the will of Westminster (something I see as impossible, but let's go with it) will be EXTREMELY controversial across parts of the world, eg the EU and, in particular Spain.

    Indy Scotland wants to rejoin the EU. Why on earth would the Spanish welcome in this country which has just declared UDI, thereby encouraging all the secessionists in Catalunya to try exactly the same trick?

    They would not. Spain would veto Scottish membership. Instantly. So Scotland would be stuck outside the UK and outside the EU.

    Spain will only accept Scotland as a new member if it has secured independence via the established method of 2014, an indyref granted by and agreed with Westminster.

    Again, I imagine Sturgeon knows all this too, and yet her wilder followers haven't worked it out.

    Support for Catalan independence is running lower than support for Scottish independence, according to the polling and the Catalan nationalist movement has now split between those parties that still believe in a unilateral declaration of independence and those that prefer the tough, longer, constitutional route. The latter is now tacitly supporting the PSOE/Podemos coalition in Madrid (it just helped to get the budget through, for example). I wonder if a similar schism will occur in Scotland.

  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,593

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Because they haven't cracked down yet doesn't mean they will and people have been prosecuted for using electronic money to buy drugs. It most certainly isn't anonymous. As soon as the police work out applebys apple pies is a front for selling drugs they just have to do a simple database search to find all the customers
    I'm sorry but this just shows a complete lack of understanding of the modern world.

    People buy cryptocurrency and then use *that* to buy drugs.

    Cryptocurrency is anonymous. Do some research.
    Though BitCoin is very far from anonymous. And proves to be a damning proof of transactions - see a number of criminal trials.

    I have a hunch that BItCoin was actually invented as a honeypot trap by some maths nerds in the basement at Fort Meade.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,245

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    Bitcoin isn't anonymous.
    Transactions are public but who owns what is anonymous.
    Indeed. If Bitcoin isn’t anonymous then please tell us who Satoshi Nakamoto is?
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,848

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Using cryptocurrency, perhaps, but not a credit/debit card?
    The argument was that the decline of cash means that transactions cannot be anonymous.

    However that is not true 'cos cryptocurrency.
    Lol crypto currency isnt anonymous ask the people who bought stuff using bitcoin from Silk road and subsequently got yanked in by the fbi.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,095

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Because they haven't cracked down yet doesn't mean they will and people have been prosecuted for using electronic money to buy drugs. It most certainly isn't anonymous. As soon as the police work out applebys apple pies is a front for selling drugs they just have to do a simple database search to find all the customers
    I'm sorry but this just shows a complete lack of understanding of the modern world.

    People buy cryptocurrency and then use *that* to buy drugs.

    Cryptocurrency is anonymous. Do some research.
    Though BitCoin is very far from anonymous. And proves to be a damning proof of transactions - see a number of criminal trials.

    I have a hunch that BItCoin was actually invented as a honeypot trap by some maths nerds in the basement at Fort Meade.
    Of course Bitcoin is not the only cryptocurrency.
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:
    I think you can argue it both ways. On the face of it, Iceland should have been absolutely crushed (it was tiny and the UK far more powerful) but, it won a clear victory.

    It had net cutters, which the UK largely didn't, but also it threatened to pull out of NATO and expose the GIUK gap to the Soviets, which sealed it for the UK as that was a much bigger interest.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,072

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Because they haven't cracked down yet doesn't mean they will and people have been prosecuted for using electronic money to buy drugs. It most certainly isn't anonymous. As soon as the police work out applebys apple pies is a front for selling drugs they just have to do a simple database search to find all the customers
    I'm sorry but this just shows a complete lack of understanding of the modern world.

    People buy cryptocurrency and then use *that* to buy drugs.

    Cryptocurrency is anonymous. Do some research.
    Cryptocurrency is not as anonymous as you think it is.

    There are two vectors where you could be deanonymised. Firstly, every transaction is recorded on the blockchain. If you buy 1 BTC from an exchange, and then use it to buy drugs, and the dealer is then caught, they could go to the exchange and say "hey, who did you sell this BTC to".

    Secondly, when you transact, you broadcast on IRC. Those IP addresses could be logged.

  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,593
    Paging MaxPB... MaxPB to the blue courtesy phone.....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55259272
  • Options
    RattersRatters Posts: 803
    I'll admit to having gone one step beyond not carrying cash, to not carrying cards either...

    I find contactless payment is now so ubiquitous that I never seem to face issues, even at market stands.

    My dad on the other hand will always carry a decent amount of cash with him. I think it's a generational thing and the trend will only continue, albeit I don't think cash will disappear completely.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,340
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That article is almost two years old. Two years ago, my phone didn't do contactless payments, and most stores didn't take them.

    Things change.
    As with other things, COVID has massively celebrated the trend. Everyone* now takes contactless payments, for even the smallest transactions.

    *Not managed to find someone who hasn't, since March.
    Still lots of shops/takeaways round here that don’t take cards.
    ...much like the EU, who wouldn't take our cards, despite us holding all of them!
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,848
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Because they haven't cracked down yet doesn't mean they will and people have been prosecuted for using electronic money to buy drugs. It most certainly isn't anonymous. As soon as the police work out applebys apple pies is a front for selling drugs they just have to do a simple database search to find all the customers
    I'm sorry but this just shows a complete lack of understanding of the modern world.

    People buy cryptocurrency and then use *that* to buy drugs.

    Cryptocurrency is anonymous. Do some research.
    Cryptocurrency is not as anonymous as you think it is.

    There are two vectors where you could be deanonymised. Firstly, every transaction is recorded on the blockchain. If you buy 1 BTC from an exchange, and then use it to buy drugs, and the dealer is then caught, they could go to the exchange and say "hey, who did you sell this BTC to".

    Secondly, when you transact, you broadcast on IRC. Those IP addresses could be logged.

    Thanks for confirmation RCS....perhaps in your own words Gallowgate go and do some research
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,095
    edited December 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Because they haven't cracked down yet doesn't mean they will and people have been prosecuted for using electronic money to buy drugs. It most certainly isn't anonymous. As soon as the police work out applebys apple pies is a front for selling drugs they just have to do a simple database search to find all the customers
    I'm sorry but this just shows a complete lack of understanding of the modern world.

    People buy cryptocurrency and then use *that* to buy drugs.

    Cryptocurrency is anonymous. Do some research.
    Cryptocurrency is not as anonymous as you think it is.

    There are two vectors where you could be deanonymised. Firstly, every transaction is recorded on the blockchain. If you buy 1 BTC from an exchange, and then use it to buy drugs, and the dealer is then caught, they could go to the exchange and say "hey, who did you sell this BTC to".

    Secondly, when you transact, you broadcast on IRC. Those IP addresses could be logged.

    Likewise you can be caught on CCTV spending cash. Likewise your dealer could tell the police who they sold the drugs to, for cash.

    The fact is that no matter how much @Pagan2 complains the days of cash are numbered.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,072
    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Using cryptocurrency, perhaps, but not a credit/debit card?
    The argument was that the decline of cash means that transactions cannot be anonymous.

    However that is not true 'cos cryptocurrency.
    Lol crypto currency isnt anonymous ask the people who bought stuff using bitcoin from Silk road and subsequently got yanked in by the fbi.
    That wasn't because of flaws in Bitcoin, it was because Silk Road stored the details of every transaction (including mailing addresses) in a passwrdless mySQL database.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    As everyone seems to banging on about what will happen in the event of No Deal Brexit, can I point out that I did an excellent video on this a few years ago:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyahEuxvBUk&ab_channel=RobertSmithson

    Why is this unloved? Excellent.

    Although the line is, "cats and dogs living together - total anarchy."
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That article is almost two years old. Two years ago, my phone didn't do contactless payments, and most stores didn't take them.

    Things change.
    Bear in mind that in 2019 it was found that 1.2 million adults in the UK still didn't have access to a bank account let alone a credit or debit card. And as of June this year a survey found that only 7.4 million people lived a cashless existence. Obviously cash usage is dropping but the idea that most people would in any way welcome it ending is ridiculous.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Ratters said:

    I'll admit to having gone one step beyond not carrying cash, to not carrying cards either...

    I find contactless payment is now so ubiquitous that I never seem to face issues, even at market stands.

    My dad on the other hand will always carry a decent amount of cash with him. I think it's a generational thing and the trend will only continue, albeit I don't think cash will disappear completely.

    My main concern with using the phone is it getting stolen. I have my wallet out far less frequently, and if my wallet is stolen I at least have my phone to call the bank to cancel my card. :D
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,593
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That article is almost two years old. Two years ago, my phone didn't do contactless payments, and most stores didn't take them.

    Things change.
    As with other things, COVID has massively celebrated the trend. Everyone* now takes contactless payments, for even the smallest transactions.

    *Not managed to find someone who hasn't, since March.
    Still lots of shops/takeaways round here that don’t take cards.
    Interesting - round here, the cheap terminals* are everywhere. Even the shops in the poorest areas.

    *One off payment £25-50, no line fees, fixed transaction fees
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    Alistair said:

    Sturgeon seems far too weighed down by the actions of England and media reaction to do differently. Indeed she lead the idiotic "rush to normal" in the summer by having schools go back full time in August. That is a main driver of the mess we are in now.

    After actually acting differently in enacting a decent tiering system she's went and reduced tiers far too early.

    On the whole politicians seem to only react to events, rather than acting in advance on the anticipation of what is to come. This is probably because it is a lot easier to explain to the public that you are acting to deal with what has happened or is happening. Saying we "must do X in order to avoid Y" is a hard case to make when some sizeable chunk of the populace will talk about the money wasted on X when Y doesn't happen.

    When the big one* comes, and COVID-19 is not it, we will not avoid it, as far too many people will be doubting what is happening even as the catastrophe unfolds before their eyes.

    * Insert your favourite mass extinction event.
  • Options
    LadyG said:

    Here's a counterfactual.

    What if No Deal happens and..... it turns out it's no big deal?


    eg There are a few lorry queues for a few weeks. A brief shortage of prosecco. Camembert increases by 20% in price, so people switch to British versions.

    And that's it.

    So many of us - even on this site - are using words like "calamity", and "disaster". We are all told we are driving off a cliff.

    What if it just turns out we are driving through a muddy field then back on to a normal road? What would that do to politics? Would Remainers change their minds?

    I'm not predicting this, but it is a politically fascinating possibility, in multiple ways.

    No Deal is much less serious now than it would have been a year ago and, quite frankly, it'd be even better in a year once we'd exceeded the existing trade deal tally and fully brought online all our customs systems.

    But, it will dominate all politics and news endlessly until it's solved - and massively complicate relations with our nearest neighbour - so I really do hope we get a Deal and move on.
  • Options

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    The relentless whinge of the media Brexiteer will become the muzak of our time. The background to everything.
    It will find it hard to drown out the endless whining of the Remoaners.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited December 2020

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Because they haven't cracked down yet doesn't mean they will and people have been prosecuted for using electronic money to buy drugs. It most certainly isn't anonymous. As soon as the police work out applebys apple pies is a front for selling drugs they just have to do a simple database search to find all the customers
    I'm sorry but this just shows a complete lack of understanding of the modern world.

    People buy cryptocurrency and then use *that* to buy drugs.

    Cryptocurrency is anonymous. Do some research.
    Cryptocurrency is not as anonymous as you think it is.

    There are two vectors where you could be deanonymised. Firstly, every transaction is recorded on the blockchain. If you buy 1 BTC from an exchange, and then use it to buy drugs, and the dealer is then caught, they could go to the exchange and say "hey, who did you sell this BTC to".

    Secondly, when you transact, you broadcast on IRC. Those IP addresses could be logged.

    Likewise you can be caught on CCTV spending cash.
    But the difference is of you get caught once spending cash, your whole transaction history can't then just be downloaded.

    The equivalence in my mind is similar to VPNs. It makes it a lot harder to track all users activities, but if you want to find out an individual's usage, they only really need to mess up once and you get their real IP address. And then game over.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,848
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Using cryptocurrency, perhaps, but not a credit/debit card?
    The argument was that the decline of cash means that transactions cannot be anonymous.

    However that is not true 'cos cryptocurrency.
    Lol crypto currency isnt anonymous ask the people who bought stuff using bitcoin from Silk road and subsequently got yanked in by the fbi.
    That wasn't because of flaws in Bitcoin, it was because Silk Road stored the details of every transaction (including mailing addresses) in a passwrdless mySQL database.
    They also used chain analysis I believe to find the people behind wallets. It doesn't surprise me in the least though if he had a lot of mailing addresses too
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,833

    On vaccines I'm starting to agree with @TSE that HMG will merrily f*ck-up rapid vaccine roll-out. A few thousand will happen before Christmas, and then it'll fizzle out.

    That's not a political point - still less a Brexit one - it's just the public sector and civil service are really shit at rapid complex large-scale programmes.

    They're good at policy papers and media angles - not delivery.

    Nah it is being handled by the Civil Service, there is a designated provider in each site, usually a CCG. Leicester started today, held up a few days by the change to protocols caused by the anaphylaxis issue.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That article is almost two years old. Two years ago, my phone didn't do contactless payments, and most stores didn't take them.

    Things change.
    As with other things, COVID has massively celebrated the trend. Everyone* now takes contactless payments, for even the smallest transactions.

    *Not managed to find someone who hasn't, since March.
    Still lots of shops/takeaways round here that don’t take cards.
    ...much like the EU, who wouldn't take our cards, despite us holding all of them!
    Not much credit left. Albeit lots on the debit side...
  • Options
    RobD said:

    On vaccines I'm starting to agree with @TSE that HMG will merrily f*ck-up rapid vaccine roll-out. A few thousand will happen before Christmas, and then it'll fizzle out.

    That's not a political point - still less a Brexit one - it's just the public sector and civil service are really shit at rapid complex large-scale programmes.

    They're good at policy papers and media angles - not delivery.

    Are there stats on how the roll-out is progressing?
    No, I'm just going on informed gut-instinct and a couple of articles today on priorities if supplies run low.

    Rather than scaling up it seems to be a bit of a damp squib at the moment.
  • Options

    LadyG said:

    nico679 said:

    The reality is that Scotland can’t hold another binding referendum unless it’s in line with the constitutional requirements of the UK unless that is the Supreme Court do something outlandish if any court action ends up there . Even if you got a good turnout internationally it won’t be seen as legitimate.

    The irony of course that support for Indy will be at its highest during this Parliament so it’s frustrating for the SNP . If Labour get in I’d expect support for Indy to fall . Personally I think if the SNP get a majority next year then Westminster shouldn’t stand in the way but that’s not going to happen under Johnson.

    A big issue with a UDI is it won’t get international recognition and on economic terms you won’t be able to raise money on the markets which all countries need to do .

    Separating Scotland from the rest of the UK is going to be very complex and you’d need huge co-operation to do that so as much as I can understand the frustration of Scots it’s impossible to see any other way than doing this on the same terms as in 2014.

    Also, of course, Scotland seceding via an advisory referendum called by the Nats against the will of Westminster (something I see as impossible, but let's go with it) will be EXTREMELY controversial across parts of the world, eg the EU and, in particular Spain.

    Indy Scotland wants to rejoin the EU. Why on earth would the Spanish welcome in this country which has just declared UDI, thereby encouraging all the secessionists in Catalunya to try exactly the same trick?

    They would not. Spain would veto Scottish membership. Instantly. So Scotland would be stuck outside the UK and outside the EU.

    Spain will only accept Scotland as a new member if it has secured independence via the established method of 2014, an indyref granted by and agreed with Westminster.

    Again, I imagine Sturgeon knows all this too, and yet her wilder followers haven't worked it out.

    Support for Catalan independence is running lower than support for Scottish independence, according to the polling and the Catalan nationalist movement has now split between those parties that still believe in a unilateral declaration of independence and those that prefer the tough, longer, constitutional route. The latter is now tacitly supporting the PSOE/Podemos coalition in Madrid (it just helped to get the budget through, for example). I wonder if a similar schism will occur in Scotland.

    How long till the Starmerite version of the PSOE/Podemos coalition gets its sweaty little paws on at least one of the reins of power? 'Cos until then...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,072

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That article is almost two years old. Two years ago, my phone didn't do contactless payments, and most stores didn't take them.

    Things change.
    Bear in mind that in 2019 it was found that 1.2 million adults in the UK still didn't have access to a bank account let alone a credit or debit card. And as of June this year a survey found that only 7.4 million people lived a cashless existence. Obviously cash usage is dropping but the idea that most people would in any way welcome it ending is ridiculous.
    12 months ago, I'd keep cash on me for paying for small things - a can of coke, a parking meter, even a drink at a bar.

    Now, the shops all have signs about how they'd rather you used contactless. It used to be that for transactions below a certain price point, you had to use cash.

    Not any more,

    There's a saying in technology: things take much longer to happen than you expect, but when they do happen they happen really fast. It's like the lillies on the pond doubling.

    Now, sure, there will be some people without bank accounts who will struggle. But I wouldn't be surprised if the government loosened the rules on low value accounts (where the hoops you have to jump through because KYC are so ridiculous).
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    That article is almost two years old. Two years ago, my phone didn't do contactless payments, and most stores didn't take them.

    Things change.
    As with other things, COVID has massively celebrated the trend. Everyone* now takes contactless payments, for even the smallest transactions.

    *Not managed to find someone who hasn't, since March.
    Still lots of shops/takeaways round here that don’t take cards.
    Interesting - round here, the cheap terminals* are everywhere. Even the shops in the poorest areas.

    *One off payment £25-50, no line fees, fixed transaction fees
    And I think that’s the problem. A lot of shops round here operate on low prices, and very tight margins - too tight for that to work. I suspect quite a lot probably accidentally forget some of the cash they take when it comes to doing tax returns as well.

    £10 will buy you enough meat for a week at the butcher’s shop in Chadsmoor. It wouldn’t buy you a single meal at Starbucks in Kensington. The percentage take of a card fee is correspondingly greater in Chadsmoor.
  • Options

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Because they haven't cracked down yet doesn't mean they will and people have been prosecuted for using electronic money to buy drugs. It most certainly isn't anonymous. As soon as the police work out applebys apple pies is a front for selling drugs they just have to do a simple database search to find all the customers
    I'm sorry but this just shows a complete lack of understanding of the modern world.

    People buy cryptocurrency and then use *that* to buy drugs.

    Cryptocurrency is anonymous. Do some research.
    Though BitCoin is very far from anonymous. And proves to be a damning proof of transactions - see a number of criminal trials.

    I have a hunch that BItCoin was actually invented as a honeypot trap by some maths nerds in the basement at Fort Meade.
    Of course Bitcoin is not the only cryptocurrency.
    Yes, my 17-year old lad prefers to use Etherium. He tells me the charges are much more reasonable.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,848

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Because they haven't cracked down yet doesn't mean they will and people have been prosecuted for using electronic money to buy drugs. It most certainly isn't anonymous. As soon as the police work out applebys apple pies is a front for selling drugs they just have to do a simple database search to find all the customers
    I'm sorry but this just shows a complete lack of understanding of the modern world.

    People buy cryptocurrency and then use *that* to buy drugs.

    Cryptocurrency is anonymous. Do some research.
    Cryptocurrency is not as anonymous as you think it is.

    There are two vectors where you could be deanonymised. Firstly, every transaction is recorded on the blockchain. If you buy 1 BTC from an exchange, and then use it to buy drugs, and the dealer is then caught, they could go to the exchange and say "hey, who did you sell this BTC to".

    Secondly, when you transact, you broadcast on IRC. Those IP addresses could be logged.

    Likewise you can be caught on CCTV spending cash. Likewise your dealer could tell the police who they sold the drugs to, for cash.

    The fact is that no matter how much @Pagan2 complains the days of cash are numbered.
    Well I don't know about you but if I were buying drugs or other illegal things I would probably do the transaction somewhere where there weren't cctv cameras.

    Nor is the privacy just about illegal things. I lend a friend 1000£ now he has hmrc on his back because they cant tell the difference between me lending him 1000 and me paying him off the books for painting my house. With cash I can hand it to him and government knows nothing about it....with just ecash it comes up on their computer
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    RobD said:

    On vaccines I'm starting to agree with @TSE that HMG will merrily f*ck-up rapid vaccine roll-out. A few thousand will happen before Christmas, and then it'll fizzle out.

    That's not a political point - still less a Brexit one - it's just the public sector and civil service are really shit at rapid complex large-scale programmes.

    They're good at policy papers and media angles - not delivery.

    Are there stats on how the roll-out is progressing?
    No, I'm just going on informed gut-instinct and a couple of articles today on priorities if supplies run low.

    Rather than scaling up it seems to be a bit of a damp squib at the moment.
    I wonder when we will hear how it is going. They have enough already for 400,000 people, and should have enough by the end of the year for 2 million. I suppose the first person to be vaccinated won't be for another few weeks, given the second jab.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,095

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Because they haven't cracked down yet doesn't mean they will and people have been prosecuted for using electronic money to buy drugs. It most certainly isn't anonymous. As soon as the police work out applebys apple pies is a front for selling drugs they just have to do a simple database search to find all the customers
    I'm sorry but this just shows a complete lack of understanding of the modern world.

    People buy cryptocurrency and then use *that* to buy drugs.

    Cryptocurrency is anonymous. Do some research.
    Cryptocurrency is not as anonymous as you think it is.

    There are two vectors where you could be deanonymised. Firstly, every transaction is recorded on the blockchain. If you buy 1 BTC from an exchange, and then use it to buy drugs, and the dealer is then caught, they could go to the exchange and say "hey, who did you sell this BTC to".

    Secondly, when you transact, you broadcast on IRC. Those IP addresses could be logged.

    Likewise you can be caught on CCTV spending cash.
    But the difference is of you get caught once spending cash, your whole transaction history can't then just be downloaded.

    The equivalence in my mind is similar to VPNs. It makes it a lot harder to track all users activities, but if you want to find out an individual's usage, they only really need to mess up once and you get their real IP address. And then game over.
    You can use a new wallet for each transaction if you want to remove that link, right?
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    On vaccines I'm starting to agree with @TSE that HMG will merrily f*ck-up rapid vaccine roll-out. A few thousand will happen before Christmas, and then it'll fizzle out.

    That's not a political point - still less a Brexit one - it's just the public sector and civil service are really shit at rapid complex large-scale programmes.

    They're good at policy papers and media angles - not delivery.

    Nah it is being handled by the Civil Service, there is a designated provider in each site, usually a CCG. Leicester started today, held up a few days by the change to protocols caused by the anaphylaxis issue.
    Objectively, how confident are you - honestly?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Because they haven't cracked down yet doesn't mean they will and people have been prosecuted for using electronic money to buy drugs. It most certainly isn't anonymous. As soon as the police work out applebys apple pies is a front for selling drugs they just have to do a simple database search to find all the customers
    I'm sorry but this just shows a complete lack of understanding of the modern world.

    People buy cryptocurrency and then use *that* to buy drugs.

    Cryptocurrency is anonymous. Do some research.
    Cryptocurrency is not as anonymous as you think it is.

    There are two vectors where you could be deanonymised. Firstly, every transaction is recorded on the blockchain. If you buy 1 BTC from an exchange, and then use it to buy drugs, and the dealer is then caught, they could go to the exchange and say "hey, who did you sell this BTC to".

    Secondly, when you transact, you broadcast on IRC. Those IP addresses could be logged.

    Likewise you can be caught on CCTV spending cash.
    But the difference is of you get caught once spending cash, your whole transaction history can't then just be downloaded.

    The equivalence in my mind is similar to VPNs. It makes it a lot harder to track all users activities, but if you want to find out an individual's usage, they only really need to mess up once and you get their real IP address. And then game over.
    You can use a new wallet for each transaction if you want to remove that link, right?
    I thought it was all linked together in the blockchain.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,095
    edited December 2020
    Pagan2 said:

    Nor is the privacy just about illegal things. I lend a friend 1000£ now he has hmrc on his back because they cant tell the difference between me lending him 1000 and me paying him off the books for painting my house. With cash I can hand it to him and government knows nothing about it....with just ecash it comes up on their computer

    Who the f*ck is handing their mates £1,000 in cash?

    You're just ridiculously paranoid.

    People bank transfer thousands of pounds to each other all the time and HMRC is not interested.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,402
    Well on the plus side we are getting close to the 20 minutes where United start to play without being behind for a change. On the minus will we start playing if we are not chasing the game?

    Very poor from both sides to date.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554

    As with other things, COVID has massively celebrated the trend. Everyone* now takes contactless payments, for even the smallest transactions.

    *Not managed to find someone who hasn't, since March.

    I've not used cash even once since the middle of March, before that I was probably at least 50% cash payments.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,413
    edited December 2020
    Foxy said:

    On vaccines I'm starting to agree with @TSE that HMG will merrily f*ck-up rapid vaccine roll-out. A few thousand will happen before Christmas, and then it'll fizzle out.

    That's not a political point - still less a Brexit one - it's just the public sector and civil service are really shit at rapid complex large-scale programmes.

    They're good at policy papers and media angles - not delivery.

    Nah it is being handled by the Civil Service, there is a designated provider in each site, usually a CCG. Leicester started today, held up a few days by the change to protocols caused by the anaphylaxis issue.
    In that case I can only say I hope the civil servants at the DoH are less epically shit than the ones at the DfE, who are a national embarrassment.

    But given Wormald spent time at the DoH and for all I know is still there, I’m not optimistic.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,072
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Using cryptocurrency, perhaps, but not a credit/debit card?
    The argument was that the decline of cash means that transactions cannot be anonymous.

    However that is not true 'cos cryptocurrency.
    Lol crypto currency isnt anonymous ask the people who bought stuff using bitcoin from Silk road and subsequently got yanked in by the fbi.
    That wasn't because of flaws in Bitcoin, it was because Silk Road stored the details of every transaction (including mailing addresses) in a passwrdless mySQL database.
    They also used chain analysis I believe to find the people behind wallets. It doesn't surprise me in the least though if he had a lot of mailing addresses too
    Sensible: the reality is that exchanges like Coinbase will record all your details. And if Bitcoins go from an exchange to you to a dark market then you can expect to get a visit from the Rozzers at some point.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,072

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Brexiteer whining has started.

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1337806421820395535

    Sorry pal, you own this now.

    There is dynamic alignment baked into USMCA (regarding US minimum wage and intellectual property legislation), so it's also factually inaccurate.
    Try using Canadian dollars even an inch over the border. Whereas, in Canada, the US Dollar is accepted virtually everywhere. Just the way it is.
    I suspect thats like the southern irish used to take british pounds happily as long as it was on a 1 british pound is treated like an irish pound. Instant 10% mark up for them. 1 canadian dollar is 0.78 us dollars so on a 1 to 1 basis they are making 22% extra
    I never leave the house with cash anyway, so I'm not sure that an argument over notes and coins is that interesting any more.
    In britain at least that would make you unusual
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/07/britons-use-cash-everyday-payments-report-finds
    Its days are numbered.

    Almost nobody under 30 uses cash routinely.
    Are there stats on this? The report in the previous comment doesn't mention it explicitly, but I would be surprised if routine cash usage was near 0% for under 30s.
    Which shows the young aren't that bright. There are good reasons to want cash to continue and people who advocate its demise are advocating for a loss of anonymity and government oversight of every penny they spend.

    Imagine a future where a government for example decides x is bad. They tell all card issuers that they must block all transactions involving x? Think thats a fantasy it is exactly what the american government did to stop people from the US playing online poker. Told banks that they couldnt make or receive payments from online poker sites. It was pretty effective
    You can keep whinging about how the "youth aren't that bright" but it's not going to change anything.

    If you want to be anonymous you can use Bitcoin.

    Either keep up or be left behind I'm afraid.
    You want to give up your freedom thats fine, when they decide you can't spend your money on something you want to do don't go whining
    People buy illegal drugs using electronic money on a daily basis. It's pretty mainstream. Electronic money doesn't stop you doing anything illegal or anonymous.
    Because they haven't cracked down yet doesn't mean they will and people have been prosecuted for using electronic money to buy drugs. It most certainly isn't anonymous. As soon as the police work out applebys apple pies is a front for selling drugs they just have to do a simple database search to find all the customers
    I'm sorry but this just shows a complete lack of understanding of the modern world.

    People buy cryptocurrency and then use *that* to buy drugs.

    Cryptocurrency is anonymous. Do some research.
    Though BitCoin is very far from anonymous. And proves to be a damning proof of transactions - see a number of criminal trials.

    I have a hunch that BItCoin was actually invented as a honeypot trap by some maths nerds in the basement at Fort Meade.
    Of course Bitcoin is not the only cryptocurrency.
    Yes, my 17-year old lad prefers to use Etherium. He tells me the charges are much more reasonable.
    Ethereum is a much more interesting concept all things considered: for a start the crypto and the blockchain are not entirely wasted energy in the same way Bitcoin is.
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,346
    Foxy said:

    On vaccines I'm starting to agree with @TSE that HMG will merrily f*ck-up rapid vaccine roll-out. A few thousand will happen before Christmas, and then it'll fizzle out.

    That's not a political point - still less a Brexit one - it's just the public sector and civil service are really shit at rapid complex large-scale programmes.

    They're good at policy papers and media angles - not delivery.

    Nah it is being handled by the Civil Service, there is a designated provider in each site, usually a CCG. Leicester started today, held up a few days by the change to protocols caused by the anaphylaxis issue.
    Given that we deliver more than 15m flu inoculations every year over three months this really shouldn’t be beyond our ability. If anything we’re one of the best countries in the world at this sort of mass vaccination. We’ll get it working. Everyone can get a Covid test now after a messy start. Same will happen with the Covid jab.
This discussion has been closed.