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Why I’m laying Marcus Rashford for Sports Personality Of The Year – politicalbetting.com

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  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    HYUFD said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    Indeed, the first post election 2024 GOP nomination polls have Romney shooting up to second behind Trump if he runs again or Pence if he does not to be the Republican nominee to challenge by then President Biden or the Democratic nominee if he does not decide to run for re election

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1328758765248770049?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1328759344549203968?s=20

    I think none of the above should be at around 75%

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Are students too righteous to stand w Farage or will money talk?

    twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1330601985750536193?s=20

    Surely pitched at the parents and grandparents of students, rather than the actual sutdents themselves - most of whom abhor Farage.
    Well that's why I asked the question!
    You can simultaneously support a policy whilst thinking Farage and the Brexit Party are twats of the highest order.
    You can, though people do often judge an idea based on who is pitching for it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713

    JACK_W said:

    JACK_W said:

    IIRC the Beeb stated a few weeks back that Rashford wouldn't be shortlisted for SPOTY as he had no significant sporting achievement to justify a nomination.

    The BBC must have said it very quietly if he has not been laid off the boards on Betfair.
    This from the "Daily Mail" among many indicating the same :

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8881815/Marcus-Rashford-set-miss-BBCs-Sports-Personality-Year-shortlist.html

    I think a "special award" is likely as has happened in the past.
    Except that a special award *would* be political which is what the BBC is trying to avoid.
    Would it? Hasn't the PM thanked* Rashford for highlighting the issue?

    *through gritted teeth presumably.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831


    For each day, that's adding up the last seven days of reported cases, divided by population. That smooths out variations from weekday to weekday while being responsive to the most recent data.

    Encouraging downward trend in England.

    Scotland heading down more slowly, albeit from a lower starting level. Tier 4 in Glasgow and surrounds will hopefully reinforce that.

    Rather noisy data in Wales after the firebreak knocked cases down by about 40%. They'll probably have to do more.

    NI cases apparently reducing again after a plateau. Not sure why.
  • TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    Indeed, the first post election 2024 GOP nomination polls have Romney shooting up to second behind Trump if he runs again or Pence if he does not to be the Republican nominee to challenge by then President Biden or the Democratic nominee if he does not decide to run for re election

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1328758765248770049?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1328759344549203968?s=20

    I think none of the above should be at around 75%

    As well as those named in the poll, keep an eye on Senator Tom Cotton and Governor Kristi Noem, both from the Trump end of the party.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    Are students too righteous to stand w Farage or will money talk?

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1330601985750536193?s=20

    For once Farage is right. "One swallow does not a summer make".
    I thought that was Bill Clinton’s motto?
    I don't remember that bit from The Wind in the Willows.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Sandpit said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    Romney is 73 years old so in four or eight years time...
    I know he is a bit young but he looks older than he is
    I’m amazed he is 73!! He looks 15 years younger. He’s a teetotaller (and also avoids caffeine) but then so are Trump and Biden!

    Obama was the odd man out - a drinker and a smoker (of various things).
    I’m slightly surprised to learn that Bob Dole is still alive, and therefore the only other living Republican to have run for President.

    But I suppose he’s a similar age to Jimmy Carter, who continues to defy all medical predictions and is still active at the grand old age of 96 despite his brush with cancer.
    If he hangs on another couple of months, we'll be back up to six living Presidents.
    Eat your heart out, EU.

    Forgive my ignorance, but you've lost me there.
    They only have 5 serving presidents.

    The “hilarity” at the amount of “presidents” the EU have is just ignorance. The EU simply calls positions “president” where we would normally use “Chairperson” or “leader of X”.
    So who is actually the President, the one person in charge?
    Strikes me as a very odd question when we all know the EU is not that kind of arrangement, both to its benefit and its detriment.
  • Foxy said:

    JACK_W said:

    JACK_W said:

    IIRC the Beeb stated a few weeks back that Rashford wouldn't be shortlisted for SPOTY as he had no significant sporting achievement to justify a nomination.

    The BBC must have said it very quietly if he has not been laid off the boards on Betfair.
    This from the "Daily Mail" among many indicating the same :

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8881815/Marcus-Rashford-set-miss-BBCs-Sports-Personality-Year-shortlist.html

    I think a "special award" is likely as has happened in the past.
    Except that a special award *would* be political which is what the BBC is trying to avoid.
    Would it? Hasn't the PM thanked* Rashford for highlighting the issue?

    *through gritted teeth presumably.
    I doubt Boris has any objection to FSM or to Radford winning SPotY. The naysayers were Gove and Cummings, in my view, and they have form in their earlier hostility to Jamie Oliver's campaign to ban turkey twizzlers from school dinners 10 years back.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597
    Sandpit said:

    The point about SPotY is that is a two-stage contest. The first, being nominated, is about performance on the pitch, track or table; in the pool or in the ring. But the second is the public vote, more akin to Reality TV betting. Sporting achievement gets you into the Big Brother House, or into the Welsh Jungle, but from then on it is about who picks up the phone on the night.

    The question is not about whether Ronnie has achieved more than Lewis but whether either has done enough to be amongst the 10 or 12 nominated. That is where the role of sport ends and it is down to public appeal.

    Very much so.

    The big question is do the BBC allow Rashford to be nominated, given his lack of on-the-pitch achievements?

    If not, as I assume, then his short price (3/1 ish second fav) gives value to the rest of the field.

    In previous years they've allowed up to a dozen nominations, it will be interesting to see how many horses take the start line in this race, given the paucity of actual achievement in an extraordinary year.
    There have only been six nominees the past couple of years.

    My guess at this stage is:

    Lewis Hamilton
    Tyson Fury
    Ronnie O'Sullivan
    Jonathan Rea
    James Anderson
    Hollie Doyle

    Marcus Rashford will be given a special award for his campaign.


  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,894
    A chance for one of Stodge's occasional glances at European polling.

    Tonight, we kick off in Italy where a lot has been happening and primarily the political demise of Lega which has seen its support fall from the mid-30s to just 23% in the latest Tecne poll. The Social Democrats are on 21% but the big beneficiaries of the Lega's collapse have been the Brothers of Italy (FdL) who are now third with 17% in front of M5S with 14%. Elections aren't due until 2023 and FdL's poll numbers haven't yet translated into seats but they could be a big part of the next Italian Government.

    On then to Germany where Angela Merkel celebrates 15 years as Chancellor - a remarkable achievement. The CDU/CSU remain solidly ahead with 36% with the Greens on 18%, SPD on 16%, AfD on 9% and both Linke and FDP on 7%.

    In the Netherlands, the governing VVD has opened an 8-point advantage over the PVV but the coalition parties forming the Government have a combined vote share of 47% compared with 48% at the last election so remain very much in the driving seat.

    Finally for now to Norway, where the Opposition Labour Party lead the governing Hojre Party by just one point (21.5-20.4) but both are well down on the last election. Labour is down 6 points and Hojre down 4.5 with the big gainers the Centre Party who are up 8.3 to 18.6% and hold a strong third.

    For those not acquainted with Norwegian politics, the Centre Party is the successor to the old Farmers' Party. It's nationalist, protectionist, populist and strongly opposed to any idea of Norway joining the EU so obviously it's doing well in the current climate. Surprisingly, it has supported and been in coalition with centre-left Labour Governments and I suppose that's a possibility next time
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    kle4 said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    Romney is 73 years old so in four or eight years time...
    I know he is a bit young but he looks older than he is
    I’m amazed he is 73!! He looks 15 years younger. He’s a teetotaller (and also avoids caffeine) but then so are Trump and Biden!

    Obama was the odd man out - a drinker and a smoker (of various things).
    I’m slightly surprised to learn that Bob Dole is still alive, and therefore the only other living Republican to have run for President.

    But I suppose he’s a similar age to Jimmy Carter, who continues to defy all medical predictions and is still active at the grand old age of 96 despite his brush with cancer.
    If he hangs on another couple of months, we'll be back up to six living Presidents.
    Eat your heart out, EU.

    Forgive my ignorance, but you've lost me there.
    They only have 5 serving presidents.

    To clarify: 1. European Parliament president – David-Maria Sassoli ; 2. European Council president – Charles Michel ; 3. European Commission president – Ursula von der Leyen ; 4. Presidency of the Council of the EU - unknown Belgian ; 5. President of the ECB - Christine Lagarde.
    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    Romney is 73 years old so in four or eight years time...
    I know he is a bit young but he looks older than he is
    I’m amazed he is 73!! He looks 15 years younger. He’s a teetotaller (and also avoids caffeine) but then so are Trump and Biden!

    Obama was the odd man out - a drinker and a smoker (of various things).
    I’m slightly surprised to learn that Bob Dole is still alive, and therefore the only other living Republican to have run for President.

    But I suppose he’s a similar age to Jimmy Carter, who continues to defy all medical predictions and is still active at the grand old age of 96 despite his brush with cancer.
    If he hangs on another couple of months, we'll be back up to six living Presidents.
    Eat your heart out, EU.

    Forgive my ignorance, but you've lost me there.
    They only have 5 serving presidents.

    Even though they have two presidents at once, where the US manage with one?

    Dear me, that’s pathetic.
    They have five at once:
    1. European Parliament president – David-Maria Sassoli ; 2. European Council president – Charles Michel ; 3. European Commission president – Ursula von der Leyen ; 4. Presidency of the Council of the EU - unknown Belgian ; 5. President of the ECB - Christine Lagarde.

    All it really indicates is the versatility of the word 'president'.
    Doesn't it just mean a Big Cheese?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Maybe the one where Maggie sacked his daddy.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720

    kle4 said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    Romney is 73 years old so in four or eight years time...
    I know he is a bit young but he looks older than he is
    I’m amazed he is 73!! He looks 15 years younger. He’s a teetotaller (and also avoids caffeine) but then so are Trump and Biden!

    Obama was the odd man out - a drinker and a smoker (of various things).
    I’m slightly surprised to learn that Bob Dole is still alive, and therefore the only other living Republican to have run for President.

    But I suppose he’s a similar age to Jimmy Carter, who continues to defy all medical predictions and is still active at the grand old age of 96 despite his brush with cancer.
    If he hangs on another couple of months, we'll be back up to six living Presidents.
    Eat your heart out, EU.

    Forgive my ignorance, but you've lost me there.
    They only have 5 serving presidents.

    To clarify: 1. European Parliament president – David-Maria Sassoli ; 2. European Council president – Charles Michel ; 3. European Commission president – Ursula von der Leyen ; 4. Presidency of the Council of the EU - unknown Belgian ; 5. President of the ECB - Christine Lagarde.
    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    Romney is 73 years old so in four or eight years time...
    I know he is a bit young but he looks older than he is
    I’m amazed he is 73!! He looks 15 years younger. He’s a teetotaller (and also avoids caffeine) but then so are Trump and Biden!

    Obama was the odd man out - a drinker and a smoker (of various things).
    I’m slightly surprised to learn that Bob Dole is still alive, and therefore the only other living Republican to have run for President.

    But I suppose he’s a similar age to Jimmy Carter, who continues to defy all medical predictions and is still active at the grand old age of 96 despite his brush with cancer.
    If he hangs on another couple of months, we'll be back up to six living Presidents.
    Eat your heart out, EU.

    Forgive my ignorance, but you've lost me there.
    They only have 5 serving presidents.

    Even though they have two presidents at once, where the US manage with one?

    Dear me, that’s pathetic.
    They have five at once:
    1. European Parliament president – David-Maria Sassoli ; 2. European Council president – Charles Michel ; 3. European Commission president – Ursula von der Leyen ; 4. Presidency of the Council of the EU - unknown Belgian ; 5. President of the ECB - Christine Lagarde.

    All it really indicates is the versatility of the word 'president'.
    Doesn't it just mean a Big Cheese?
    Président butter anyway.

  • dodrade said:

    Sandpit said:

    The point about SPotY is that is a two-stage contest. The first, being nominated, is about performance on the pitch, track or table; in the pool or in the ring. But the second is the public vote, more akin to Reality TV betting. Sporting achievement gets you into the Big Brother House, or into the Welsh Jungle, but from then on it is about who picks up the phone on the night.

    The question is not about whether Ronnie has achieved more than Lewis but whether either has done enough to be amongst the 10 or 12 nominated. That is where the role of sport ends and it is down to public appeal.

    Very much so.

    The big question is do the BBC allow Rashford to be nominated, given his lack of on-the-pitch achievements?

    If not, as I assume, then his short price (3/1 ish second fav) gives value to the rest of the field.

    In previous years they've allowed up to a dozen nominations, it will be interesting to see how many horses take the start line in this race, given the paucity of actual achievement in an extraordinary year.
    There have only been six nominees the past couple of years.

    My guess at this stage is:

    Lewis Hamilton
    Tyson Fury
    Ronnie O'Sullivan
    Jonathan Rea
    James Anderson
    Hollie Doyle

    Marcus Rashford will be given a special award for his campaign.


    Jofra Archer is another possibility alongside Anderson, though this would split the cricket vote.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    TimT said:

    Maybe the one where Maggie sacked his daddy.
    Spoilers
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    Romney is 73 years old so in four or eight years time...
    I know he is a bit young but he looks older than he is
    I’m amazed he is 73!! He looks 15 years younger. He’s a teetotaller (and also avoids caffeine) but then so are Trump and Biden!

    Obama was the odd man out - a drinker and a smoker (of various things).
    I’m slightly surprised to learn that Bob Dole is still alive, and therefore the only other living Republican to have run for President.

    But I suppose he’s a similar age to Jimmy Carter, who continues to defy all medical predictions and is still active at the grand old age of 96 despite his brush with cancer.
    If he hangs on another couple of months, we'll be back up to six living Presidents.
    Eat your heart out, EU.

    Forgive my ignorance, but you've lost me there.
    They only have 5 serving presidents.

    The “hilarity” at the amount of “presidents” the EU have is just ignorance. The EU simply calls positions “president” where we would normally use “Chairperson” or “leader of X”.
    So it wasn't just me the "joke" passed by then.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,132
    stodge said:

    A chance for one of Stodge's occasional glances at European polling.

    Tonight, we kick off in Italy where a lot has been happening and primarily the political demise of Lega which has seen its support fall from the mid-30s to just 23% in the latest Tecne poll. The Social Democrats are on 21% but the big beneficiaries of the Lega's collapse have been the Brothers of Italy (FdL) who are now third with 17% in front of M5S with 14%. Elections aren't due until 2023 and FdL's poll numbers haven't yet translated into seats but they could be a big part of the next Italian Government.

    On then to Germany where Angela Merkel celebrates 15 years as Chancellor - a remarkable achievement. The CDU/CSU remain solidly ahead with 36% with the Greens on 18%, SPD on 16%, AfD on 9% and both Linke and FDP on 7%.

    In the Netherlands, the governing VVD has opened an 8-point advantage over the PVV but the coalition parties forming the Government have a combined vote share of 47% compared with 48% at the last election so remain very much in the driving seat.

    Finally for now to Norway, where the Opposition Labour Party lead the governing Hojre Party by just one point (21.5-20.4) but both are well down on the last election. Labour is down 6 points and Hojre down 4.5 with the big gainers the Centre Party who are up 8.3 to 18.6% and hold a strong third.

    For those not acquainted with Norwegian politics, the Centre Party is the successor to the old Farmers' Party. It's nationalist, protectionist, populist and strongly opposed to any idea of Norway joining the EU so obviously it's doing well in the current climate. Surprisingly, it has supported and been in coalition with centre-left Labour Governments and I suppose that's a possibility next time

    Italy looks like the only western European nation left where the populist right could form a government (combining Lega, FdL and Forza Italia).

    In Germany looks like the Greens could have the balance of power next year between a coalition with the CDU or a centre left coalition with the SPD and Linke, Merkel not standing for Chancellor again at next year's election.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Are students too righteous to stand w Farage or will money talk?

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1330601985750536193?s=20

    Surely pitched at the parents and grandparents of students, rather than the actual sutdents themselves - most of whom abhor Farage.
    How much difference would it make when so few will ever pay back?
    I’ll certainly pay back my postgraduate student loan, unless I’m unemployed for the next 30 years I guess.
    Good man.
    I paid back a student loan in a different country in (wait for it!) 1962.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    BTW, PBers may be surprised to learn that there was an item on tonight's Look North about the election of Labour's candidate for mayor of West Yorkshire.

    Voting starts tomorrow.
  • TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    Indeed, the first post election 2024 GOP nomination polls have Romney shooting up to second behind Trump if he runs again or Pence if he does not to be the Republican nominee to challenge by then President Biden or the Democratic nominee if he does not decide to run for re election

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1328758765248770049?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1328759344549203968?s=20

    I think none of the above should be at around 75%

    I doubt my views are popular with the Republican primary voters.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    Romney is 73 years old so in four or eight years time...
    I know he is a bit young but he looks older than he is
    I’m amazed he is 73!! He looks 15 years younger. He’s a teetotaller (and also avoids caffeine) but then so are Trump and Biden!

    Obama was the odd man out - a drinker and a smoker (of various things).
    I’m slightly surprised to learn that Bob Dole is still alive, and therefore the only other living Republican to have run for President.

    But I suppose he’s a similar age to Jimmy Carter, who continues to defy all medical predictions and is still active at the grand old age of 96 despite his brush with cancer.
    If he hangs on another couple of months, we'll be back up to six living Presidents.
    Eat your heart out, EU.

    Forgive my ignorance, but you've lost me there.
    They only have 5 serving presidents.

    To clarify: 1. European Parliament president – David-Maria Sassoli ; 2. European Council president – Charles Michel ; 3. European Commission president – Ursula von der Leyen ; 4. Presidency of the Council of the EU - unknown Belgian ; 5. President of the ECB - Christine Lagarde.
    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    Romney is 73 years old so in four or eight years time...
    I know he is a bit young but he looks older than he is
    I’m amazed he is 73!! He looks 15 years younger. He’s a teetotaller (and also avoids caffeine) but then so are Trump and Biden!

    Obama was the odd man out - a drinker and a smoker (of various things).
    I’m slightly surprised to learn that Bob Dole is still alive, and therefore the only other living Republican to have run for President.

    But I suppose he’s a similar age to Jimmy Carter, who continues to defy all medical predictions and is still active at the grand old age of 96 despite his brush with cancer.
    If he hangs on another couple of months, we'll be back up to six living Presidents.
    Eat your heart out, EU.

    Forgive my ignorance, but you've lost me there.
    They only have 5 serving presidents.

    Even though they have two presidents at once, where the US manage with one?

    Dear me, that’s pathetic.
    They have five at once:
    1. European Parliament president – David-Maria Sassoli ; 2. European Council president – Charles Michel ; 3. European Commission president – Ursula von der Leyen ; 4. Presidency of the Council of the EU - unknown Belgian ; 5. President of the ECB - Christine Lagarde.

    The ECB doesn't just set the monetary policy for the EU, but also - of course - for non-EU countries that have he Euro as their currency. There is also nothing in the constitution of the ECB that requires its President to be a citizen of the EU. So, calling them a "President" of the EU seems a little odd. Indeed, it's not clear they have anywhere near the power of the Governor of the Bank of England, and we wouldn't claim he was another leader of the UK alongside the Prime Minister.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    Indeed, the first post election 2024 GOP nomination polls have Romney shooting up to second behind Trump if he runs again or Pence if he does not to be the Republican nominee to challenge by then President Biden or the Democratic nominee if he does not decide to run for re election

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1328758765248770049?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1328759344549203968?s=20

    I think none of the above should be at around 75%

    As well as those named in the poll, keep an eye on Senator Tom Cotton and Governor Kristi Noem, both from the Trump end of the party.
    From the batshit wing you mean.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831
    stodge said:

    A chance for one of Stodge's occasional glances at European polling.

    Tonight, we kick off in Italy where a lot has been happening and primarily the political demise of Lega which has seen its support fall from the mid-30s to just 23% in the latest Tecne poll. The Social Democrats are on 21% but the big beneficiaries of the Lega's collapse have been the Brothers of Italy (FdL) who are now third with 17% in front of M5S with 14%. Elections aren't due until 2023 and FdL's poll numbers haven't yet translated into seats but they could be a big part of the next Italian Government.

    On then to Germany where Angela Merkel celebrates 15 years as Chancellor - a remarkable achievement. The CDU/CSU remain solidly ahead with 36% with the Greens on 18%, SPD on 16%, AfD on 9% and both Linke and FDP on 7%.

    In the Netherlands, the governing VVD has opened an 8-point advantage over the PVV but the coalition parties forming the Government have a combined vote share of 47% compared with 48% at the last election so remain very much in the driving seat.

    Finally for now to Norway, where the Opposition Labour Party lead the governing Hojre Party by just one point (21.5-20.4) but both are well down on the last election. Labour is down 6 points and Hojre down 4.5 with the big gainers the Centre Party who are up 8.3 to 18.6% and hold a strong third.

    For those not acquainted with Norwegian politics, the Centre Party is the successor to the old Farmers' Party. It's nationalist, protectionist, populist and strongly opposed to any idea of Norway joining the EU so obviously it's doing well in the current climate. Surprisingly, it has supported and been in coalition with centre-left Labour Governments and I suppose that's a possibility next time

    Helmut Kohl managed 16 years and 26 days. Looks like Merkel will fall just short of that unless the coalition talks after the election in September drag on like last time round.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    I think that Mitt Romney has more chance of getting the Democrat nomination than Republican nomination in 2024.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209

    rcs1000 said:

    This is partly on the presumption of a Brexit deal, which I think will be finalised during the 1st week of December, with final chess pieces gradually moving into place over the next 2 weeks.

    The lack of any big Brexit stories in the Sunday papers does suggest a deal of some kind is in the offing.
    Do you think this means it is inevitable we will join the euro, and lead the creation of a new federal tax system, police force and European navy as part of our first joint presidency of the council and commission?
    National currencies are so passe. Within a decade the British government will be forced to borrow in Bitcoin.
    Bitcoin: the unexplainable in pursuit of the indefinable.
    Ultimately, all a currency is is something whose scarcity is guaranteed. If human beings no longer trust the scarcity of their government issued currency they will look for alternatives.

    It wasn't that long ago that the UK was forced to borrow in Yen, Swiss Francs, Dollars and Deutschemarks as well as Pounds - simply Brits didn't trust the UK government not to inflate away their savings.

    If we were to go through another period, like the 1970s, when interest rates were in double digits, I have little doubt that people would seek to put their money in alternatives.

    Of course, it may be that the current unbridled printing of money by governments around the world does not lead to inflation...
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited November 2020
    I've been tuned out from politics last day or so but it looks like they are really going for it in Michigan. There seems to be incredible pressure from the local Republicans (in the form of a tweet saying there absolutely is no pressure *wink*) for the certification board not to certify the results.

    For the first time I'm nervous about my Biden +48.5 bet.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    A chance for one of Stodge's occasional glances at European polling.

    Tonight, we kick off in Italy where a lot has been happening and primarily the political demise of Lega which has seen its support fall from the mid-30s to just 23% in the latest Tecne poll. The Social Democrats are on 21% but the big beneficiaries of the Lega's collapse have been the Brothers of Italy (FdL) who are now third with 17% in front of M5S with 14%. Elections aren't due until 2023 and FdL's poll numbers haven't yet translated into seats but they could be a big part of the next Italian Government.

    On then to Germany where Angela Merkel celebrates 15 years as Chancellor - a remarkable achievement. The CDU/CSU remain solidly ahead with 36% with the Greens on 18%, SPD on 16%, AfD on 9% and both Linke and FDP on 7%.

    In the Netherlands, the governing VVD has opened an 8-point advantage over the PVV but the coalition parties forming the Government have a combined vote share of 47% compared with 48% at the last election so remain very much in the driving seat.

    Finally for now to Norway, where the Opposition Labour Party lead the governing Hojre Party by just one point (21.5-20.4) but both are well down on the last election. Labour is down 6 points and Hojre down 4.5 with the big gainers the Centre Party who are up 8.3 to 18.6% and hold a strong third.

    For those not acquainted with Norwegian politics, the Centre Party is the successor to the old Farmers' Party. It's nationalist, protectionist, populist and strongly opposed to any idea of Norway joining the EU so obviously it's doing well in the current climate. Surprisingly, it has supported and been in coalition with centre-left Labour Governments and I suppose that's a possibility next time

    Italy looks like the only western European nation left where the populist right could form a government (combining Lega, FdL and Forza Italia).

    In Germany looks like the Greens could have the balance of power next year between a coalition with the CDU or a centre left coalition with the SPD and Linke, Merkel not standing for Chancellor again at next year's election.
    What's remarkable about Italy is that they cycle through their political parties at such a rate. A decade ago, soft Left Social Democrats were well above a fractious bunch of "other". Then, M5S won the election, went into power with La Liga. Then they split up. Liga soared to commanding leads... and then lost them to a political party with similar policies (FdL). Liga and FdL now seem to spend most of their time attacking each other.

    Remember Italy gives bonus seats to whoever comes first. So it could be three or four parties competing to see who gets the "boost".
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,685
    edited November 2020
    Well presumably it's not series 1 episode 1 (who could take offence at that?).

    Also, presumably he's not just dropped in to a random episode mid-series.

    So the question is: how many episodes has he watched and enjoyed before taking offence at one?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited November 2020
    I wonder if all these lower level GOP politicians who often owe their elected positions to the fact that Democrat voters don't tend to bother with minor races, realise that they are laying the ground for a massive increase in Democrat voter engagement at every level? And could sweep them away as a result.

    And all for a battle that they will inevitably lose.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Betfair have settled Jonny Evans To Score anytime as a winner. It's not just politics, they are so bad.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    Alistair said:
    This is the "law of least resistance".

    Right now, the Michigan Republican leadership thinks "ah, it is the least resistance to say we're going to study them and then we'll certify them after proving they're valid." The problem is that their delay in certification opens the floodgates on Parler: if they're examining them, then there must be something wrong with them...

    And suddenly the least resistance from the board is now not to certify the results and to abrogate responsibility.

    What's scary, of course, is that Michigan wasn't even particularly close. 3% is a pretty decent margin (very similar to the EU one).

    Choosing not to certify will end up increasing pressure on other Boards of Electors.

    The possibility of something very bad happening is still small, but it's definitely there.

    (
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    The 2024 GOP nomination will be the greatest clown show on earth. Which of the Trumps will run ? Ivanka surely has more appeal than the sons nationally. It'll probably be Don Jr knowing the GOP base. The base is batshit mental.
    My view is the Trumptons will probably go for Junior or Ivanka, but neither will get the nomination. I think if the likes of Romney play their cards right, the Trumptonite fish will rot from the head.
    The only way the likes of Romney gets his party back, is to have a plausible nominee in place, and everyone on his side of the party behind that one nominee, before the primaries start.
    Romney has many sterling qualities and might have made an OK President, but even allowing for his other weaknesses his time has passed. Harris would eat him alive in a presidential race.

    The smart move for the Republicans would be to rally behind Nikki Haley. But as it’s the smart move she has no chance.
    The GoP have lost the PV in seven of the eight last Presidential elections. They have no chance of improving on that dismal record unless they carry Trump supporters with them.

    One way or another, they have to run with a Trump-friendly candidate. I'd guess Don Jnr, if he isn't incapacitated in any way. Coronavirus and chokey would be the main risks.
    The problem they have is that the Republican Party with Trump is 45% of voters, and without Trump is 30% of voters.

    Neither is an election winning coalition.)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:
    This is the "law of least resistance".

    Right now, the Michigan Republican leadership thinks "ah, it is the least resistance to say we're going to study them and then we'll certify them after proving they're valid." The problem is that their delay in certification opens the floodgates on Parler: if they're examining them, then there must be something wrong with them...

    And suddenly the least resistance from the board is now not to certify the results and to abrogate responsibility.

    What's scary, of course, is that Michigan wasn't even particularly close. 3% is a pretty decent margin (very similar to the EU one).

    Choosing not to certify will end up increasing pressure on other Boards of Electors.

    The possibility of something very bad happening is still small, but it's definitely there.

    (
    Exactly, this is a series of tiny pebbles creating an avalanche moment.

    For me you can trace this back to the networks failing to call Pennsylvania before the first weekend.

    Everyone and their dog knew that the remaining postal were going to split heavily for Biden and he would win it, failing to make that call was the first crack.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited November 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:
    This is the "law of least resistance".

    Right now, the Michigan Republican leadership thinks "ah, it is the least resistance to say we're going to study them and then we'll certify them after proving they're valid." The problem is that their delay in certification opens the floodgates on Parler: if they're examining them, then there must be something wrong with them...

    And suddenly the least resistance from the board is now not to certify the results and to abrogate responsibility.

    What's scary, of course, is that Michigan wasn't even particularly close. 3% is a pretty decent margin (very similar to the EU one).

    Choosing not to certify will end up increasing pressure on other Boards of Electors.

    The possibility of something very bad happening is still small, but it's definitely there.

    (
    These Michigan canvassers haven't remotely got the law on their side. If they don't certify they are quite possibly committing a criminal offence. State law doesn't allow for "an audit" in advance of certification. And they serve at the pleasure of the (Democrat) Governor who can fire them and put somebody else in their place.

    And even if somehow things don't certify, the state legislature has no role in selecting electors under any circumstances.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    If we're going to include the President of the ECB as a President of the EU, then surely we need to include the twelve (12) Presidents of the Federal Reserve Banks in the US?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    isam said:
    And yet in MLS he was a failure.

    Therefore MLS > Serie A?
  • Is the Trump regime trying to provoke a financial crisis? Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin has ordered the Fed (against the latter's expressed wish) to return emergency funds.

    But there’s another possibility. An outgoing administration has little incentive to make life easy for Democratic President-elect Joe Biden, who takes over on Jan. 20. Removing the funding facilities might create problems for him, because their very existence has given banks and financial investors confidence to lend. Republicans’ apparent rediscovery of fiscal discipline, after running up a $3 trillion deficit this year, isn’t fully convincing.

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-breakingviews/breakingviews-mnuchin-and-powell-create-dangerous-guessing-game-idUKKBN2802BZ
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    All these shenanigans in the GOP aren't creating long term problems for the Democrats. Their voter base is secure, and no doubt growing (if only because of the likely increased engagement from natural supporters). It is obviously a problem for America. But electorally it is a disaster for the Republicans.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    HYUFD said:
    Presumably he was as incensed at the portrayal of salmon fishing as I was.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    rcs1000 said:

    If we're going to include the President of the ECB as a President of the EU, then surely we need to include the twelve (12) Presidents of the Federal Reserve Banks in the US?

    And of course we have The Truss as President of the Board of Trade.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Is the Trump regime trying to provoke a financial crisis? Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin has ordered the Fed (against the latter's expressed wish) to return emergency funds.

    But there’s another possibility. An outgoing administration has little incentive to make life easy for Democratic President-elect Joe Biden, who takes over on Jan. 20. Removing the funding facilities might create problems for him, because their very existence has given banks and financial investors confidence to lend. Republicans’ apparent rediscovery of fiscal discipline, after running up a $3 trillion deficit this year, isn’t fully convincing.

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-breakingviews/breakingviews-mnuchin-and-powell-create-dangerous-guessing-game-idUKKBN2802BZ

    Of course that's what they're doing.
  • Is the Trump regime trying to provoke a financial crisis? Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin has ordered the Fed (against the latter's expressed wish) to return emergency funds.

    But there’s another possibility. An outgoing administration has little incentive to make life easy for Democratic President-elect Joe Biden, who takes over on Jan. 20. Removing the funding facilities might create problems for him, because their very existence has given banks and financial investors confidence to lend. Republicans’ apparent rediscovery of fiscal discipline, after running up a $3 trillion deficit this year, isn’t fully convincing.

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-breakingviews/breakingviews-mnuchin-and-powell-create-dangerous-guessing-game-idUKKBN2802BZ

    I seem to recall that one of the Founding Fathers warned that parties would be the death of their fledgling democracy.

    Total war is the GOP's strategy now even if the country is destroyed in the process.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,685
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    The 2024 GOP nomination will be the greatest clown show on earth. Which of the Trumps will run ? Ivanka surely has more appeal than the sons nationally. It'll probably be Don Jr knowing the GOP base. The base is batshit mental.
    My view is the Trumptons will probably go for Junior or Ivanka, but neither will get the nomination. I think if the likes of Romney play their cards right, the Trumptonite fish will rot from the head.
    The only way the likes of Romney gets his party back, is to have a plausible nominee in place, and everyone on his side of the party behind that one nominee, before the primaries start.
    Romney has many sterling qualities and might have made an OK President, but even allowing for his other weaknesses his time has passed. Harris would eat him alive in a presidential race.

    The smart move for the Republicans would be to rally behind Nikki Haley. But as it’s the smart move she has no chance.
    The GoP have lost the PV in seven of the eight last Presidential elections. They have no chance of improving on that dismal record unless they carry Trump supporters with them.

    One way or another, they have to run with a Trump-friendly candidate. I'd guess Don Jnr, if he isn't incapacitated in any way. Coronavirus and chokey would be the main risks.
    The problem they have is that the Republican Party with Trump is 45% of voters, and without Trump is 30% of voters.

    Neither is an election winning coalition.)
    I thought the down-ticket Republicans did better than Trump this time?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    Hope you took my tip. Disappointed here but £60 richer 🧐
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364
    Gaussian said:



    For each day, that's adding up the last seven days of reported cases, divided by population. That smooths out variations from weekday to weekday while being responsive to the most recent data.

    Encouraging downward trend in England.

    Scotland heading down more slowly, albeit from a lower starting level. Tier 4 in Glasgow and surrounds will hopefully reinforce that.

    Rather noisy data in Wales after the firebreak knocked cases down by about 40%. They'll probably have to do more.

    NI cases apparently reducing again after a plateau. Not sure why.

    This assume non-differential testing rates.....
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    The 2024 GOP nomination will be the greatest clown show on earth. Which of the Trumps will run ? Ivanka surely has more appeal than the sons nationally. It'll probably be Don Jr knowing the GOP base. The base is batshit mental.
    My view is the Trumptons will probably go for Junior or Ivanka, but neither will get the nomination. I think if the likes of Romney play their cards right, the Trumptonite fish will rot from the head.
    The only way the likes of Romney gets his party back, is to have a plausible nominee in place, and everyone on his side of the party behind that one nominee, before the primaries start.
    Romney has many sterling qualities and might have made an OK President, but even allowing for his other weaknesses his time has passed. Harris would eat him alive in a presidential race.

    The smart move for the Republicans would be to rally behind Nikki Haley. But as it’s the smart move she has no chance.
    The GoP have lost the PV in seven of the eight last Presidential elections. They have no chance of improving on that dismal record unless they carry Trump supporters with them.

    One way or another, they have to run with a Trump-friendly candidate. I'd guess Don Jnr, if he isn't incapacitated in any way. Coronavirus and chokey would be the main risks.
    The problem they have is that the Republican Party with Trump is 45% of voters, and without Trump is 30% of voters.

    Neither is an election winning coalition.)
    I thought the down-ticket Republicans did better than Trump this time?
    Yes, because they got the support of (Republican ambivalent) Trump voters and anti-Trump Republicans. If Trump takes his voters away then the down ballot Republicans suffer.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    The 2024 GOP nomination will be the greatest clown show on earth. Which of the Trumps will run ? Ivanka surely has more appeal than the sons nationally. It'll probably be Don Jr knowing the GOP base. The base is batshit mental.
    My view is the Trumptons will probably go for Junior or Ivanka, but neither will get the nomination. I think if the likes of Romney play their cards right, the Trumptonite fish will rot from the head.
    The only way the likes of Romney gets his party back, is to have a plausible nominee in place, and everyone on his side of the party behind that one nominee, before the primaries start.
    Romney has many sterling qualities and might have made an OK President, but even allowing for his other weaknesses his time has passed. Harris would eat him alive in a presidential race.

    The smart move for the Republicans would be to rally behind Nikki Haley. But as it’s the smart move she has no chance.
    The GoP have lost the PV in seven of the eight last Presidential elections. They have no chance of improving on that dismal record unless they carry Trump supporters with them.

    One way or another, they have to run with a Trump-friendly candidate. I'd guess Don Jnr, if he isn't incapacitated in any way. Coronavirus and chokey would be the main risks.
    The problem they have is that the Republican Party with Trump is 45% of voters, and without Trump is 30% of voters.

    Neither is an election winning coalition.)
    I thought the down-ticket Republicans did better than Trump this time?
    That's because downticket Republicans stuck with their party this time, apart from Trump. Those voters are probably not amused by - for example - the shenanigans in Michigan.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,685
    alex_ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    The 2024 GOP nomination will be the greatest clown show on earth. Which of the Trumps will run ? Ivanka surely has more appeal than the sons nationally. It'll probably be Don Jr knowing the GOP base. The base is batshit mental.
    My view is the Trumptons will probably go for Junior or Ivanka, but neither will get the nomination. I think if the likes of Romney play their cards right, the Trumptonite fish will rot from the head.
    The only way the likes of Romney gets his party back, is to have a plausible nominee in place, and everyone on his side of the party behind that one nominee, before the primaries start.
    Romney has many sterling qualities and might have made an OK President, but even allowing for his other weaknesses his time has passed. Harris would eat him alive in a presidential race.

    The smart move for the Republicans would be to rally behind Nikki Haley. But as it’s the smart move she has no chance.
    The GoP have lost the PV in seven of the eight last Presidential elections. They have no chance of improving on that dismal record unless they carry Trump supporters with them.

    One way or another, they have to run with a Trump-friendly candidate. I'd guess Don Jnr, if he isn't incapacitated in any way. Coronavirus and chokey would be the main risks.
    The problem they have is that the Republican Party with Trump is 45% of voters, and without Trump is 30% of voters.

    Neither is an election winning coalition.)
    I thought the down-ticket Republicans did better than Trump this time?
    Yes, because they got the support of (Republican ambivalent) Trump voters and anti-Trump Republicans. If Trump takes his voters away then the down ballot Republicans suffer.
    We can but hope.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Gaussian said:



    For each day, that's adding up the last seven days of reported cases, divided by population. That smooths out variations from weekday to weekday while being responsive to the most recent data.

    Encouraging downward trend in England.

    Scotland heading down more slowly, albeit from a lower starting level. Tier 4 in Glasgow and surrounds will hopefully reinforce that.

    Rather noisy data in Wales after the firebreak knocked cases down by about 40%. They'll probably have to do more.

    NI cases apparently reducing again after a plateau. Not sure why.

    Looks like they're all going to magically coalesce on Christmas Day. It's like the General Election polls!

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364
    edited November 2020
    Deleted
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited November 2020
    How many people do you think will get the first jab, but won't bother coming back for the second?
  • Scott_xP said:

    hwitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1330628898820919300

    They getting rid of ability to request beer by post?
  • alex_ said:

    How many people do you think will get the first jab, but won't bother coming back for the second?
    1st set of people will be in care homes, so they will have no way of avoiding the second stabbing.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831

    Gaussian said:



    For each day, that's adding up the last seven days of reported cases, divided by population. That smooths out variations from weekday to weekday while being responsive to the most recent data.

    Encouraging downward trend in England.

    Scotland heading down more slowly, albeit from a lower starting level. Tier 4 in Glasgow and surrounds will hopefully reinforce that.

    Rather noisy data in Wales after the firebreak knocked cases down by about 40%. They'll probably have to do more.

    NI cases apparently reducing again after a plateau. Not sure why.

    This assume non-differential testing rates.....
    Between nations? Over time?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    alex_ said:

    How many people do you think will get the first jab, but won't bother coming back for the second?
    Quite a lot: but don't forget that even one jab will probably significantly increase your immunity to CV19.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Surely a pub would be praying tonight that their region is T3 then? Shut and wages paid?
  • rcs1000 said:

    alex_ said:

    How many people do you think will get the first jab, but won't bother coming back for the second?
    Quite a lot: but don't forget that even one jab will probably significantly increase your immunity to CV19.
    I think most will, especially if you don't get your freedom badge if you haven't had both.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    So the claim is that there's no such thing as asymptomatic transmission? If that's the case, why are we having such trouble containing the virus if only those with obvious symptoms can transmit it?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Scott_xP said:
    "Pantomimes to go ahead".

    I suppose if they've made an exception for the Government, it's unfair to deny anyone else.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Scott_xP said:
    I suppose you could go into a pub and take a long time over ordering. And then change your mind.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Scott_xP said:
    Good to see that the government has tightened up its public information strategy.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    dodrade said:

    Sandpit said:

    The point about SPotY is that is a two-stage contest. The first, being nominated, is about performance on the pitch, track or table; in the pool or in the ring. But the second is the public vote, more akin to Reality TV betting. Sporting achievement gets you into the Big Brother House, or into the Welsh Jungle, but from then on it is about who picks up the phone on the night.

    The question is not about whether Ronnie has achieved more than Lewis but whether either has done enough to be amongst the 10 or 12 nominated. That is where the role of sport ends and it is down to public appeal.

    Very much so.

    The big question is do the BBC allow Rashford to be nominated, given his lack of on-the-pitch achievements?

    If not, as I assume, then his short price (3/1 ish second fav) gives value to the rest of the field.

    In previous years they've allowed up to a dozen nominations, it will be interesting to see how many horses take the start line in this race, given the paucity of actual achievement in an extraordinary year.
    There have only been six nominees the past couple of years.

    My guess at this stage is:

    Lewis Hamilton
    Tyson Fury
    Ronnie O'Sullivan
    Jonathan Rea
    James Anderson
    Hollie Doyle

    Marcus Rashford will be given a special award for his campaign.


    I have only heard of two on that list - Hamilton and O'Sullivan.
  • alex_ said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I suppose you could go into a pub and take a long time over ordering. And then change your mind.

    In Manc, when in tier 3, you only got your drinks when you ordered your food.

    Take as long as you wanted thinking about what you want, but you are not drinking in that time.

    But

    Some places would say from ordering you have 2hrs to drink as much as you want, others that whilst the plates were on the table you could eat what you want, they would leave the plates until you asked for them to be taken away.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,685

    alex_ said:

    How many people do you think will get the first jab, but won't bother coming back for the second?
    1st set of people will be in care homes, so they will have no way of avoiding the second stabbing.
    Well, there is one way... but let's not think about that one.
  • 4 households can meet up for Christmas...

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330621954278248457?s=19

    Just no...no...no....
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Scott_xP said:
    Surely a pub would be praying tonight that their region is T3 then? Shut and wages paid?
    Not sure how the Govt can justify compensating pubs in Tier 3, but not pubs in Tier 2 that don't serve food. But they'll presumably find a way.
  • Other thing about vaccine....its 2 jabs and the another week before you get the full protection. I worry a lot of people will get the 2nd jab and be off down the pub to celebrate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,132
    edited November 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    The 2024 GOP nomination will be the greatest clown show on earth. Which of the Trumps will run ? Ivanka surely has more appeal than the sons nationally. It'll probably be Don Jr knowing the GOP base. The base is batshit mental.
    My view is the Trumptons will probably go for Junior or Ivanka, but neither will get the nomination. I think if the likes of Romney play their cards right, the Trumptonite fish will rot from the head.
    The only way the likes of Romney gets his party back, is to have a plausible nominee in place, and everyone on his side of the party behind that one nominee, before the primaries start.
    Romney has many sterling qualities and might have made an OK President, but even allowing for his other weaknesses his time has passed. Harris would eat him alive in a presidential race.

    The smart move for the Republicans would be to rally behind Nikki Haley. But as it’s the smart move she has no chance.
    The GoP have lost the PV in seven of the eight last Presidential elections. They have no chance of improving on that dismal record unless they carry Trump supporters with them.

    One way or another, they have to run with a Trump-friendly candidate. I'd guess Don Jnr, if he isn't incapacitated in any way. Coronavirus and chokey would be the main risks.
    The problem they have is that the Republican Party with Trump is 45% of voters, and without Trump is 30% of voters.

    Neither is an election winning coalition.)
    The electoral cycle still turns eventually, since 1952 the longest any party has been out of the White House was the Democrats for 12 years from 1980 and even they still got back in with Clinton in 1992.

    That is the good news for the GOP.

    The bad news for the GOP is Carter's defeat in 1980 was the only time since WW2 a party lost the White House after only 1 term before Trump's defeat this year.
  • Other thing about vaccine....its 2 jabs and the another week before you get the full protection. I worry a lot of people will get the 2nd jab and be off down the pub to celebrate.

    But it is not all or nothing.

    Right from having the first jab you have a level of protection, it's just that a week ater jab 2 is the peak protection.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited November 2020

    Is the Trump regime trying to provoke a financial crisis? Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin has ordered the Fed (against the latter's expressed wish) to return emergency funds.

    But there’s another possibility. An outgoing administration has little incentive to make life easy for Democratic President-elect Joe Biden, who takes over on Jan. 20. Removing the funding facilities might create problems for him, because their very existence has given banks and financial investors confidence to lend. Republicans’ apparent rediscovery of fiscal discipline, after running up a $3 trillion deficit this year, isn’t fully convincing.

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-breakingviews/breakingviews-mnuchin-and-powell-create-dangerous-guessing-game-idUKKBN2802BZ

    I seem to recall that one of the Founding Fathers warned that parties would be the death of their fledgling democracy.

    Total war is the GOP's strategy now even if the country is destroyed in the process.
    Well, the Founding Fathers didn’t create a democracy, a republic, yes, but suffrage for all white males (the definition of “democracy” at the time) did not come until the 1820s or so. And their idea of “parties” was the 18th century British Parliamentary factions rather than the mass political movements that began to evolve on both sides of the Atlantic in the 19th century.

    And there is precedent for Trump pursuing a scorched-Earth policy between now and January 20th: it might not quite be the case that Benjamin Harrison’s outgoing administration caused the Panic of 1893, but arguably they did their level best to ensure it hit just as Grover Cleveland’s second (non-consecutive) administration began and that he and the Democrats would get the blame. It worked: the 1894 midterms saw the biggest swing against the President’s party in American history and the Democrats did regain control of any of the House, Senate or Presidency until 1910.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    Kasparov, who consulted on the series, answers a question I had about Queen’s Gambit.

    https://slate.com/culture/2020/11/queens-gambit-garry-kasparov-interview-netflix-chess-adviser.html
    Have you ever seen anything like Harmon’s substance dependence and how it factors into gameplay?

    Not lately, but in the ’50s, ’60s, ’70s, that was not uncommon. There are at least two world champions that had serious dependence on alcohol: Alexander Alekhine and Mikhail Tal. Today it’s impossible because there’s a level of concentration that you need, not just for the game but for the preparation...
  • Other thing about vaccine....its 2 jabs and the another week before you get the full protection. I worry a lot of people will get the 2nd jab and be off down the pub to celebrate.

    But it is not all or nothing.

    Right from having the first jab you have a level of protection, it's just that a week ater jab 2 is the peak protection.
    Yes i know.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited November 2020

    4 households can meet up for Christmas...

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330621954278248457?s=19

    Just no...no...no....

    I love the way they say that you have to "decide in advance who is in your bubble". Bit like the rules for "single person bubbles" said that once you had formed a bubble you couldn't change it. When in reality, anyone who wanted to simply had one bubble on Monday, another on Tuesday, another on Wednesday...

    As if somehow this is enforceable, with everyone recording their details on a central register or something. It's just further evidence that people in Government don't live in the real world.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364

    alex_ said:

    How many people do you think will get the first jab, but won't bother coming back for the second?
    1st set of people will be in care homes, so they will have no way of avoiding the second stabbing.
    Well, there is one way... but let's not think about that one.
    Well, if they all start turning into giant green angry people, that will definitely fix the age/debilitation issue. And solve nearly all of the Armed Forces recruitment/fitness issues as well.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    The 2024 GOP nomination will be the greatest clown show on earth. Which of the Trumps will run ? Ivanka surely has more appeal than the sons nationally. It'll probably be Don Jr knowing the GOP base. The base is batshit mental.
    My view is the Trumptons will probably go for Junior or Ivanka, but neither will get the nomination. I think if the likes of Romney play their cards right, the Trumptonite fish will rot from the head.
    The only way the likes of Romney gets his party back, is to have a plausible nominee in place, and everyone on his side of the party behind that one nominee, before the primaries start.
    Romney has many sterling qualities and might have made an OK President, but even allowing for his other weaknesses his time has passed. Harris would eat him alive in a presidential race.

    The smart move for the Republicans would be to rally behind Nikki Haley. But as it’s the smart move she has no chance.
    The GoP have lost the PV in seven of the eight last Presidential elections. They have no chance of improving on that dismal record unless they carry Trump supporters with them.

    One way or another, they have to run with a Trump-friendly candidate. I'd guess Don Jnr, if he isn't incapacitated in any way. Coronavirus and chokey would be the main risks.
    The problem they have is that the Republican Party with Trump is 45% of voters, and without Trump is 30% of voters.

    Neither is an election winning coalition.)
    The electoral cycle still turns eventually, since 1952 the longest any party has been out of the White House was the Democrats for 12 years from 1980 and even they still got back in with Clinton in 1992.

    That is the good news for the GOP.

    The bad news for the GOP is Carter's defeat in 1980 was the only time since WW2 a party lost the White House after only 1 term before Trump's defeat this year.
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Completely off topic, but maybe worthy of a post, I think the most important politician to watch globally is Mitt Romney. I agree with him on almost nothing, but he has emerged from this electoral soap opera with a great deal of credit and honour. I wonder if he could challenge in 2024 or 2028? He could yet be the man to save the GOP. I wish him well.

    The 2024 GOP nomination will be the greatest clown show on earth. Which of the Trumps will run ? Ivanka surely has more appeal than the sons nationally. It'll probably be Don Jr knowing the GOP base. The base is batshit mental.
    My view is the Trumptons will probably go for Junior or Ivanka, but neither will get the nomination. I think if the likes of Romney play their cards right, the Trumptonite fish will rot from the head.
    The only way the likes of Romney gets his party back, is to have a plausible nominee in place, and everyone on his side of the party behind that one nominee, before the primaries start.
    Romney has many sterling qualities and might have made an OK President, but even allowing for his other weaknesses his time has passed. Harris would eat him alive in a presidential race.

    The smart move for the Republicans would be to rally behind Nikki Haley. But as it’s the smart move she has no chance.
    The GoP have lost the PV in seven of the eight last Presidential elections. They have no chance of improving on that dismal record unless they carry Trump supporters with them.

    One way or another, they have to run with a Trump-friendly candidate. I'd guess Don Jnr, if he isn't incapacitated in any way. Coronavirus and chokey would be the main risks.
    The problem they have is that the Republican Party with Trump is 45% of voters, and without Trump is 30% of voters.

    Neither is an election winning coalition.)
    The electoral cycle still turns eventually, since 1952 the longest any party has been out of the White House was the Democrats for 12 years from 1980 and even they still got back in with Clinton in 1992.

    That is the good news for the GOP.

    The bad news for the GOP is Carter's defeat in 1980 was the only time since WW2 a party lost the White House after only 1 term before Trump's defeat this year.
    The other bad news for the GOP is they've lost a total grip on any kind of reality.
  • Tuesday week then. Just eight days to sort out supply and logistics. It will be jabs in arms?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    This Christmas thing is entirely academic as people were just going to do what they wanted anyway.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Remember. Long Covid is for life, not just for Christmas.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,099
    edited November 2020
    alex_ said:

    4 households can meet up for Christmas...

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330621954278248457?s=19

    Just no...no...no....

    I love the way they say that you have to "decide in advance who is in your bubble". Bit like the rules for "single person bubbles" said that once you had formed a bubble you couldn't change it. When in reality, anyone who wanted to simply had one bubble on Monday, another on Tuesday, another on Wednesday...

    As if somehow this is enforceable, with everyone recording their details on a central register or something. It's just further evidence that people in Government don't live in the real world.
    Right. If you set this at 4, people will do 5, or a different 4 or 5. If you really insist on relaxation for Christmas, it should be rule of 6 for Christmas day. People will still do 8 and boxing day, but this signalling of a week of 4 households, people will just go house to house over the course of the week.

    We are probably 12 weeks away from having all the vulnerable protected, we can just postpone Christmas.
  • alex_ said:

    4 households can meet up for Christmas...

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330621954278248457?s=19

    Just no...no...no....

    I love the way they say that you have to "decide in advance who is in your bubble". Bit like the rules for "single person bubbles" said that once you had formed a bubble you couldn't change it. When in reality, anyone who wanted to simply had one bubble on Monday, another on Tuesday, another on Wednesday...

    As if somehow this is enforceable, with everyone recording their details on a central register or something. It's just further evidence that people in Government don't live in the real world.
    Right. If you set this at 4, people will do 5, or a different 4 or 5. If you really insist on relaxation for Christmas, it should be rule of 6 for Christmas day. People will still do 8 and boxing day, but this signallong of a week of 4 households, people will just go house to house over the course of the week.
    I've been a bit of sceptic on lockdown (yeh, I keep going on about Sweden and a low key, sustainable lockdown), but if you as a government are going to pursue a strict lockdown policy then ripping it up for four days and allowing FOUR households is just bloody bonkers imho.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    alex_ said:

    4 households can meet up for Christmas...

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330621954278248457?s=19

    Just no...no...no....

    I love the way they say that you have to "decide in advance who is in your bubble". Bit like the rules for "single person bubbles" said that once you had formed a bubble you couldn't change it. When in reality, anyone who wanted to simply had one bubble on Monday, another on Tuesday, another on Wednesday...

    As if somehow this is enforceable, with everyone recording their details on a central register or something. It's just further evidence that people in Government don't live in the real world.
    Right. If you set this at 4, people will do 5, or a different 4 or 5. If you really insist on relaxation for Christmas, it should be rule of 6 for Christmas day. People will still do 8 and boxing day, but this signalling of a week of 4 households, people will just go house to house over the course of the week.

    We are probably 12 weeks away from having all the vulnerable protected, we can just postpone Christmas.
    People are going to do that anyway, regardless of what the Government says.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Rawnsley:

    It is not unusual for a jaded and jiggered prime minister to try to relaunch himself. It is unusual for this to happen quite so early in a premiership.

    If his premiership is to recover, it will not be by making hyperbolic promises about the future, but by finding a hitherto absent talent for governing well in the present. Even as a public-relations exercise, the relaunch failed. It was sabotaged and the person who blew the biggest hole in it was the prime minister himself.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    This Christmas thing is entirely academic as people were just going to do what they wanted anyway.

    Some people were. Others take quite serious notice of the rules. You tend not to see them out and about. Nor hear from them much. But they do exist.
    I know. I'm married to one.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    4 households can meet up for Christmas...

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330621954278248457?s=19

    Just no...no...no....

    I love the way they say that you have to "decide in advance who is in your bubble". Bit like the rules for "single person bubbles" said that once you had formed a bubble you couldn't change it. When in reality, anyone who wanted to simply had one bubble on Monday, another on Tuesday, another on Wednesday...

    As if somehow this is enforceable, with everyone recording their details on a central register or something. It's just further evidence that people in Government don't live in the real world.
    Right. If you set this at 4, people will do 5, or a different 4 or 5. If you really insist on relaxation for Christmas, it should be rule of 6 for Christmas day. People will still do 8 and boxing day, but this signalling of a week of 4 households, people will just go house to house over the course of the week.

    We are probably 12 weeks away from having all the vulnerable protected, we can just postpone Christmas.
    Too late. Has to be before Jan 1st...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,934
    Not being able to test your way out of it was pretty dumb. Now there's the capacity to do it....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221
    There is already apparently some chat on Parler that there will be no point in voting as the machines are fixed.
    Whether that’s shenanigans, or simple stupidity, I have no idea.
  • IanB2 said:

    Rawnsley:

    It is not unusual for a jaded and jiggered prime minister to try to relaunch himself. It is unusual for this to happen quite so early in a premiership.

    If his premiership is to recover, it will not be by making hyperbolic promises about the future, but by finding a hitherto absent talent for governing well in the present. Even as a public-relations exercise, the relaunch failed. It was sabotaged and the person who blew the biggest hole in it was the prime minister himself.

    This is Johnson's second or third reset/relaunch I reckon.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    alex_ said:

    4 households can meet up for Christmas...

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1330621954278248457?s=19

    Just no...no...no....

    I love the way they say that you have to "decide in advance who is in your bubble". Bit like the rules for "single person bubbles" said that once you had formed a bubble you couldn't change it. When in reality, anyone who wanted to simply had one bubble on Monday, another on Tuesday, another on Wednesday...

    As if somehow this is enforceable, with everyone recording their details on a central register or something. It's just further evidence that people in Government don't live in the real world.
    Right. If you set this at 4, people will do 5, or a different 4 or 5. If you really insist on relaxation for Christmas, it should be rule of 6 for Christmas day. People will still do 8 and boxing day, but this signalling of a week of 4 households, people will just go house to house over the course of the week.

    We are probably 12 weeks away from having all the vulnerable protected, we can just postpone Christmas.
    People are going to do that anyway, regardless of what the Government says.
    Silly people will. Sensible people will wait for a vaccine.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,364
    edited November 2020
    Gaussian said:

    Gaussian said:



    For each day, that's adding up the last seven days of reported cases, divided by population. That smooths out variations from weekday to weekday while being responsive to the most recent data.

    Encouraging downward trend in England.

    Scotland heading down more slowly, albeit from a lower starting level. Tier 4 in Glasgow and surrounds will hopefully reinforce that.

    Rather noisy data in Wales after the firebreak knocked cases down by about 40%. They'll probably have to do more.

    NI cases apparently reducing again after a plateau. Not sure why.

    This assume non-differential testing rates.....
    Between nations? Over time?
    Yes - trying to find info on testing rates at sub nation level - England, Wales, NI and Scotland are roughly at the same level at national level. But testing has been heavily concentrated in smaller areas, in reality.

    Your approach with hospitalisations would be of interest...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    dixiedean said:

    This Christmas thing is entirely academic as people were just going to do what they wanted anyway.

    Some people were. Others take quite serious notice of the rules. You tend not to see them out and about. Nor hear from them much. But they do exist.
    I know. I'm married to one.
    Well yeah, I've been following the rules too. I wasn't, however, going to sit at home on my own on Christmas Day.
This discussion has been closed.