Why I’m laying Marcus Rashford for Sports Personality Of The Year – politicalbetting.com

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Why I’m laying Marcus Rashford for Sports Personality Of The Year – politicalbetting.com

At Cornell University they have the world’s most powerful microscope called the transmission electron microscope, this microscope is so powerful that you can actually see images of the atom, the infinitesimally minute building blocks of our universe. You could use this microscope on some of the past winners of Sports Personality Of The Year and you still couldn’t find any personality in them.

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TheScreamingEagles

Been looking for an excuse to use that picture.

Nigelb

TheScreamingEagles said:

Been looking for an excuse to use that picture.

Worth the wait.

And I agree with your article; Hamilton deserves it.

IshmaelZ

I always assumed that it was "personality" because "sportsperson" or "sportsman or woman" sound even clunkier, not because it is about warmth or depth of character vs raw sporting achievement.

Sandpit

Sir Lewis Hamilton for SPOTY!

Rashford hasn't won a trophy for playing sport this year, would the BBC really want to politicise such an event the week before Christmas?

Nigelb

Good article.

The “false-positive PCR” problem is not a problem
https://virologydownunder.com/the-false-positive-pcr-problem-is-not-a-problem/

tlg86

What makes Hamilton’s achievement’s so much better than Schumacher’s is that when won his world titles he was the undisputed number one in the team, the number two in the team was never allowed to compete for the world title, unlike Hamilton’s teammates at Mercedes.

Yes, it's the weakest point about Schumacher, but he was still exceptional.

I'd actually say that Hamilton's achievement of beating his team-mate Fernando Alonso, the then reigning two-time World Champion, is actually a bigger thing in Hamilton's favour as I don't rate Rosberg or Bottas that highly. But Alonso was a top driver and to get the better of him in a debut season was very impressive.

That said, I wouldn't put a lot of money on Hamilton for SPOTY. I think O'Sullivan has a very good chance of winning it.

williamglenn

Jeb! is fighting the good fight against partisanship from satirical lockdown accounts.

https://twitter.com/JebBush/status/1330289506491248642

IshmaelZ

Things can get hijacked, of course. That Tom bloke has got a colonelcy and a knighthood at the last count, and walking is a sport...

Nigelb

Anyone here actually on Parler ?

On Parler, MAGA’s post-election world view blossoms with no pushback
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/22/parler-maga-election-echo-chamber-439056

FrancisUrquhart

Well the BBC have been ramping Lewis for the past two weeks.

One thing to pick up on Hamilton and his income is "complex". He deliberately makes it complex e.g. we found out this week all his image rights are via a company in Malta. The fact Malta has the lowest tax rates on profits in the EU is I am sure a total coincidence.

As for Rashford, having not done much on the pitch, the year Giggs won it, it was probably his worst year, well past his best.

I always find SPOTY a strange event. Is it a reward for achievement, is it a reward for personality / doing more than just your sport or both? From year to year, it is hard to tell. Some years it is clearly purely achievement others it is more than that.

kinabalu

Sandpit said:

Western governments are trying to tread a thin line between telling people what to do and letting them make their own decisions - with varying degrees of success.

The biggest problem is a reasonable minority, who seem determined to behave in any reckless way that isn't explicitly prohibited. The people who spent three days on the p!ss after it was announced the bars would close, those who were desperate to go on holiday over the summer to places where regulations were not enforced, and those who now think that no government will stop them celebrating Christmas.

Yes. I agree. We need the Rules because having the Rules reduces the amount of irresponsible behaviour. But of course it still happens. Two possible responses. Should we police the Rules aggressively in order to reduce it further? Or should we recognize that the Rules are unenforceable and therefore not have any? I say neither. Just stick with our general approach of largely unpoliced Rules. I think people are creating for column inches some big conflict between "liberty" and "safety" that does not in practice exist.

On topic. Hamilton would be a worthy winner but I've done Rashford at 3.85. I agree it's effectively a bet on the BBC putting him on the list. They know if they do he'll win so it's a big call for them. O'Sullivan is also interesting. Inexplicably missed off the list in previous years, Could be one of those "overdue" things that happens sometimes when you think it won't or even that it shouldn't. Like Paul Newman's Oscar for Color of Money.

rottenborough

Nigelb said:

Good article.

The “false-positive PCR” problem is not a problem
https://virologydownunder.com/the-false-positive-pcr-problem-is-not-a-problem/

He slightly undermines his argument by saying:

"they are very, very rare events that are almost always caught by the process involved in reporting test results. This process considers the lab results alongside clinical and epidemiological context and checks itself before reporting."

The clinical context is not taken into account as far as I am aware with the UK's mass testing unless they are already symptomatic.

ydoethur

TheScreamingEagles said:

Been looking for an excuse to use that picture.

Fuck Boris, lay Rashford?

An interesting sounding sandwich...

Roy_G_Biv

Don't fully understand why nobody talks about Klopp for SPOTY. Do they have to be British?

Roy_G_Biv

Also, F1 is not a sport, has never been a sport, and will never be a sport.

Tres

Roy_G_Biv said:

Don't fully understand why nobody talks about Klopp for SPOTY. Do they have to be British?

Yes, and they have to 'play' sport not manage other sportspeople.

TheScreamingEagles

Roy_G_Biv said:

Don't fully understand why nobody talks about Klopp for SPOTY. Do they have to be British?

As a general rule he's not eligible for the main award, coaches and managers have their own award that night.

Roy_G_Biv

Tres said:

Roy_G_Biv said:

Don't fully understand why nobody talks about Klopp for SPOTY. Do they have to be British?

Yes, and they have to 'play' sport not manage other sportspeople.

Yeah, ok, but 0/2's not bad

FrancisUrquhart

Roy_G_Biv said:

Don't fully understand why nobody talks about Klopp for SPOTY. Do they have to be British?

Depends what you mean by British....Greg Rusedski won one year ;-)

ydoethur

tlg86 said:

What makes Hamilton’s achievement’s so much better than Schumacher’s is that when won his world titles he was the undisputed number one in the team, the number two in the team was never allowed to compete for the world title, unlike Hamilton’s teammates at Mercedes.

Yes, it's the weakest point about Schumacher, but he was still exceptional.

I'd actually say that Hamilton's achievement of beating his team-mate Fernando Alonso, the then reigning two-time World Champion, is actually a bigger thing in Hamilton's favour as I don't rate Rosberg or Bottas that highly. But Alonso was a top driver and to get the better of him in a debut season was very impressive.

That said, I wouldn't put a lot of money on Hamilton for SPOTY. I think O'Sullivan has a very good chance of winning it.

It is worth reminding ourselves of how many world championships other Ferrari drivers won in Schumacher’s heyday.

And it wasn’t just because they were always ordered out of the way. He was clearly on a different level.

That being said, Hakkinen, Coulthard, Hill were fine drivers but a far cry from Alonso, Vettel, Raikonnen and Rosberg whom Hamilton had to overcome. Arguably in Schumacher’s career until Alonso’s emergence the only really outstanding driver other than him was Senna, who was of course killed early on in Schumacher’s first period of dominance.

Roy_G_Biv

TheScreamingEagles said:

Roy_G_Biv said:

Don't fully understand why nobody talks about Klopp for SPOTY. Do they have to be British?

As a general rule he's not eligible for the main award, coaches and managers have their own award that night.

Pity, since he's got bags of personality, unlike Hamilton who is -- and let's be completely objective here -- a tosser.

FrancisUrquhart

Roy_G_Biv said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Roy_G_Biv said:

Don't fully understand why nobody talks about Klopp for SPOTY. Do they have to be British?

As a general rule he's not eligible for the main award, coaches and managers have their own award that night.

Pity, since he's got bags of personality, unlike Hamilton who is -- and let's be completely objective here -- a tosser.

You not buying this new shiny carefully PRed Lewis that has been deployed the past few weeks?

ydoethur

Roy_G_Biv said:

Also, F1 is not a sport, has never been a sport, and will never be a sport.

This argument just leads us round in circles.

Quincel

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

FrancisUrquhart

I see dirty cheating Leeds United.have joined RocNation. It is one thing carefully moulding inoffensive Marcus into a campaigning hero, quite another to overcome 50 years of bad PR and reputation for Leeds United.

Roy_G_Biv

FrancisUrquhart said:

Roy_G_Biv said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Roy_G_Biv said:

Don't fully understand why nobody talks about Klopp for SPOTY. Do they have to be British?

As a general rule he's not eligible for the main award, coaches and managers have their own award that night.

Pity, since he's got bags of personality, unlike Hamilton who is -- and let's be completely objective here -- a tosser.

You not buying this new shiny carefully PRed Lewis that has been deployed the past few weeks?

Rolled in glitter, you say?

Quincel

Tres said:

Roy_G_Biv said:

Don't fully understand why nobody talks about Klopp for SPOTY. Do they have to be British?

Yes, and they have to 'play' sport not manage other sportspeople.

Indeed, otherwise Sir Alex Ferguson would have been the most shocking overlooked candidate in the history of the award.

Roy_G_Biv

ydoethur said:

Roy_G_Biv said:

Also, F1 is not a sport, has never been a sport, and will never be a sport.

This argument just leads us round in circles.

Over and over again. With no overtaking.

ydoethur

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

It makes up for the lack of sneaky fuckers in Antifrank’s recent effort.

ydoethur

Roy_G_Biv said:

ydoethur said:

Roy_G_Biv said:

Also, F1 is not a sport, has never been a sport, and will never be a sport.

This argument just leads us round in circles.

Over and over again. With no overtaking.

It is the kers of F1.

Mexicanpete

ydoethur said:

tlg86 said:

What makes Hamilton’s achievement’s so much better than Schumacher’s is that when won his world titles he was the undisputed number one in the team, the number two in the team was never allowed to compete for the world title, unlike Hamilton’s teammates at Mercedes.

Yes, it's the weakest point about Schumacher, but he was still exceptional.

I'd actually say that Hamilton's achievement of beating his team-mate Fernando Alonso, the then reigning two-time World Champion, is actually a bigger thing in Hamilton's favour as I don't rate Rosberg or Bottas that highly. But Alonso was a top driver and to get the better of him in a debut season was very impressive.

That said, I wouldn't put a lot of money on Hamilton for SPOTY. I think O'Sullivan has a very good chance of winning it.

It is worth reminding ourselves of how many world championships other Ferrari drivers won in Schumacher’s heyday.

And it wasn’t just because they were always ordered out of the way. He was clearly on a different level.

That being said, Hakkinen, Coulthard, Hill were fine drivers but a far cry from Alonso, Vettel, Raikonnen and Rosberg whom Hamilton had to overcome. Arguably in Schumacher’s career until Alonso’s emergence the only really outstanding driver other than him was Senna, who was of course killed early on in Schumacher’s first period of dominance.

Michael too, wasn't averse to a little chicanery around the chicanes to cement his advantage, as Damon and Prost can testify.

TheScreamingEagles

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

Good writers borrow from others, great writers steal outright.

I'm quite proud of the dig at Manchester United's player of the year 2020 is VAR, this as well 'I suspect if they add Rashford to the list the backlash from Tories like Ben Bradley, he of Hovis for heroin and hookers infamy, will start moaning.'

Oh and the pièce de résistance, calling Michael Schumacher 'the German shunt'.

I'm still sore over his attempted murder and title winning move on Damon Hill in Australia 1994.

ydoethur

Mexicanpete said:

ydoethur said:

tlg86 said:

What makes Hamilton’s achievement’s so much better than Schumacher’s is that when won his world titles he was the undisputed number one in the team, the number two in the team was never allowed to compete for the world title, unlike Hamilton’s teammates at Mercedes.

Yes, it's the weakest point about Schumacher, but he was still exceptional.

I'd actually say that Hamilton's achievement of beating his team-mate Fernando Alonso, the then reigning two-time World Champion, is actually a bigger thing in Hamilton's favour as I don't rate Rosberg or Bottas that highly. But Alonso was a top driver and to get the better of him in a debut season was very impressive.

That said, I wouldn't put a lot of money on Hamilton for SPOTY. I think O'Sullivan has a very good chance of winning it.

It is worth reminding ourselves of how many world championships other Ferrari drivers won in Schumacher’s heyday.

And it wasn’t just because they were always ordered out of the way. He was clearly on a different level.

That being said, Hakkinen, Coulthard, Hill were fine drivers but a far cry from Alonso, Vettel, Raikonnen and Rosberg whom Hamilton had to overcome. Arguably in Schumacher’s career until Alonso’s emergence the only really outstanding driver other than him was Senna, who was of course killed early on in Schumacher’s first period of dominance.

Michael too, wasn't averse to a little chicanery around the chicanes to cement his advantage, as Damon and Prost can testify.

And Villeneuve.

Not that that helped Schumacher, of course...

Quincel

TheScreamingEagles said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

Good writers borrow from others, great writers steal outright.

I'm quite proud of the dig at Manchester United's player of the year 2020 is VAR, this as well 'I suspect if they add Rashford to the list the backlash from Tories like Ben Bradley, he of Hovis for heroin and hookers infamy, will start moaning.'

Oh and the pièce de résistance, calling Michael Schumacher 'the German shunt'.

I'm still sore over his attempted murder and title winning move on Damon Hill in Australia 1994.

I did particularly enjoy the VAR line, and (as mentioned) the entire opening section. Not that the rest had many low points.

But enough of stroking your ego. Well, almost: I also think you are right with your betting thoughts.

williamglenn

Roy_G_Biv said:

ydoethur said:

Roy_G_Biv said:

Also, F1 is not a sport, has never been a sport, and will never be a sport.

This argument just leads us round in circles.

Over and over again. With no overtaking.

It's just the pits.

Andy_Cooke

rottenborough said:

Nigelb said:

Good article.

The “false-positive PCR” problem is not a problem
https://virologydownunder.com/the-false-positive-pcr-problem-is-not-a-problem/

He slightly undermines his argument by saying:

"they are very, very rare events that are almost always caught by the process involved in reporting test results. This process considers the lab results alongside clinical and epidemiological context and checks itself before reporting."

The clinical context is not taken into account as far as I am aware with the UK's mass testing unless they are already symptomatic.

Then again, though, if there were to be a significant problem in more cases being reported than actually occur:

- The fatality rate of covid would necessarily have to be significantly worse than our current understanding

And

- The number of people dying within 28 days of a positive result is more than 50 times higher than the background death rate - we would expect around 1000 deaths from randomly selecting that number of people and monitoring them for 28 days; we’ve had around 55,000 such deaths. Something is therefore killing them.

I really do think, therefore, that this entire false positive meme is completely unhelpful and un-useful, and I am a bit bewildered at its apparent persistence.

Gallowgate

The legal job market seems to be improving already, based on the number of vacancies. A good sign.

IshmaelZ

Roy_G_Biv said:

ydoethur said:

Roy_G_Biv said:

Also, F1 is not a sport, has never been a sport, and will never be a sport.

This argument just leads us round in circles.

Over and over again. With no overtaking.

I think the best thing I have ever read on PB was the description of the Monaco GP as a two-hour documentary on wet weather tyre choice in tax havens.

Mexicanpete

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

Indeed. Sports writers are often overlooked for their genius. The greatest passage of prose in the English language was Hugh McIllvaney's eulogy for boxer Johnnie Owen.

TSE's first paragraph comes close.

Mexicanpete

Deleted

BluestBlue

'inter alia, Brits Nigel Mansell and Sir Andrew Murray'

My God, they're so lacking in personality that they've actually become inanimate...

williamglenn

BluestBlue said:

'inter alia, Brits Nigel Mansell and Sir Andrew Murray'

My God, they're so lacking in personality that they've actually become inanimate...

Mansell had personality on the track like few other drivers though.

Sandpit

Why Hamilton is better than Schumacher:

He has always been a fair driver, races hard but knows when to draw the line and has never used underhanded tactics to advance himself.

Exhibit A:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AhNs_W5OQU

FrancisUrquhart

State-sponsored hackers from China, Russia, Iran and North Korea are engaged in concerted attempts to steal coronavirus vaccine secrets in what security experts describe as “an intellectual property war”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/22/hackers-try-to-steal-covid-vaccine-secrets-in-intellectual-property-war

BluestBlue

williamglenn said:

BluestBlue said:

'inter alia, Brits Nigel Mansell and Sir Andrew Murray'

My God, they're so lacking in personality that they've actually become inanimate...

Mansell had personality on the track like few other drivers though.

Nothing against him; I was just quibbling with TSE's use of the neuter to refer to them, which would be quite funny if it were intentional.

Mexicanpete

Sandpit said:

Why Hamilton is better than Schumacher:

He has always been a fair driver, races hard but knows when to draw the line and has never used underhanded tactics to advance himself.

Exhibit A:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AhNs_W5OQU

ydoethur said:

Mexicanpete said:

ydoethur said:

tlg86 said:

What makes Hamilton’s achievement’s so much better than Schumacher’s is that when won his world titles he was the undisputed number one in the team, the number two in the team was never allowed to compete for the world title, unlike Hamilton’s teammates at Mercedes.

Yes, it's the weakest point about Schumacher, but he was still exceptional.

I'd actually say that Hamilton's achievement of beating his team-mate Fernando Alonso, the then reigning two-time World Champion, is actually a bigger thing in Hamilton's favour as I don't rate Rosberg or Bottas that highly. But Alonso was a top driver and to get the better of him in a debut season was very impressive.

That said, I wouldn't put a lot of money on Hamilton for SPOTY. I think O'Sullivan has a very good chance of winning it.

It is worth reminding ourselves of how many world championships other Ferrari drivers won in Schumacher’s heyday.

And it wasn’t just because they were always ordered out of the way. He was clearly on a different level.

That being said, Hakkinen, Coulthard, Hill were fine drivers but a far cry from Alonso, Vettel, Raikonnen and Rosberg whom Hamilton had to overcome. Arguably in Schumacher’s career until Alonso’s emergence the only really outstanding driver other than him was Senna, who was of course killed early on in Schumacher’s first period of dominance.

Michael too, wasn't averse to a little chicanery around the chicanes to cement his advantage, as Damon and Prost can testify.

And Villeneuve.

Not that that helped Schumacher, of course...

Indeed. The deliberate crash with Damon went unpunished however.

So offronted was I that as a youngster I had a letter published in the Times bellyaching about Schumacher's move on Damon. Proof it were needed that the Times under Murdoch would publish any old rubbish, from any old riff-raff!

Carnyx

Mexicanpete said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

Indeed. Sports writers are often overlooked for their genius. The greatest passage of prose in the English language was Hugh McIllvaney's eulogy for boxer Johnnie Owen.

TSE's first paragraph comes close.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/mar/05/hugh-mcilvanney-johnny-owen-last-fight-vault

That one?

TheScreamingEagles

BluestBlue said:

williamglenn said:

BluestBlue said:

'inter alia, Brits Nigel Mansell and Sir Andrew Murray'

My God, they're so lacking in personality that they've actually become inanimate...

Mansell had personality on the track like few other drivers though.

Nothing against him; I was just quibbling with TSE's use of the neuter to refer to them, which would be quite funny if it were intentional.

It was, alongside calling Sir Andy Murray a Brit when he wins.

Mexicanpete

Carnyx said:

Mexicanpete said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

Indeed. Sports writers are often overlooked for their genius. The greatest passage of prose in the English language was Hugh McIllvaney's eulogy for boxer Johnnie Owen.

TSE's first paragraph comes close.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/mar/05/hugh-mcilvanney-johnny-owen-last-fight-vault

That one?

The last sentence brings tears to my eyes.

Kilmarnock Academy's finest!

Carnyx

Mexicanpete said:

Carnyx said:

Mexicanpete said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

Indeed. Sports writers are often overlooked for their genius. The greatest passage of prose in the English language was Hugh McIllvaney's eulogy for boxer Johnnie Owen.

TSE's first paragraph comes close.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/mar/05/hugh-mcilvanney-johnny-owen-last-fight-vault

That one?

The last sentence brings tears to my eyes.

Kilmarnock Academy's finest!

I hadn't realised he was brother of the novelist William - another superb writer (esp. his Docherty).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-47000268 [edit]

solarflare

It's a shame Rosberg won his title and decided to get out whilst he was ahead. Over the piece Hamilton was still clearly the better but Rosberg was more effective at getting in Hamilton's head and that provoked Hamilton back etc.

One of Hamilton's really memorable races for me was that Abu Dhabi title decider where he basically drove as slow as he dared to try and back Rosberg into the pack to get them to overtake him to build the points gap he needed, all the while studiously ignoring his team over the radio. Turned what really ought to have been a formality of a decider into something a bit more of an event worthy of the occasion.

Bottas has singularly failed to do anything like that in his time, other than the odd team radio message this season where he weakly muses out loud about trying to do an entirely different strategy but never quite pushes the issue far enough. And without that destabilising inter-team rivalry effect it's just allowed Hamilton to get more and more comfortable and he finds each subsequent title easier and easier.

kyf_100

Mexicanpete said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

Indeed. Sports writers are often overlooked for their genius. The greatest passage of prose in the English language was Hugh McIllvaney's eulogy for boxer Johnnie Owen.

TSE's first paragraph comes close.

It's a Frasier reference...

https://www.quotes.net/mquote/734816

Mysticrose

Another attempt to bang the Hamilton drum by TSE I see.

He may win it but he's neither a sportsman nor a personality.

Mexicanpete

Carnyx said:

Mexicanpete said:

Carnyx said:

Mexicanpete said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

Indeed. Sports writers are often overlooked for their genius. The greatest passage of prose in the English language was Hugh McIllvaney's eulogy for boxer Johnnie Owen.

TSE's first paragraph comes close.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/mar/05/hugh-mcilvanney-johnny-owen-last-fight-vault

That one?

The last sentence brings tears to my eyes.

Kilmarnock Academy's finest!

I hadn't realised he was brother of the novelist William - another superb writer (esp. his Docherty).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-47000268 [edit]

Another of Kilmarnock Academy's finest! Although I almost got Hugh's name mixed up with West Ham's Frank McAvennie. I don't think Frank was quite such a good writer.

Mysticrose

TheScreamingEagles said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

great writers steal outright.

Great writers don't go around telling others how great they are.

They have no need.

paulyork64

williamglenn said:

Roy_G_Biv said:

ydoethur said:

Roy_G_Biv said:

Also, F1 is not a sport, has never been a sport, and will never be a sport.

This argument just leads us round in circles.

Over and over again. With no overtaking.

It's just the pits.

the Tifosi lap it up though.

TheScreamingEagles

kyf_100 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

Indeed. Sports writers are often overlooked for their genius. The greatest passage of prose in the English language was Hugh McIllvaney's eulogy for boxer Johnnie Owen.

TSE's first paragraph comes close.

It's a Frasier reference...

https://www.quotes.net/mquote/734816

It is, that's why I said earlier on 'Good writers borrow from others, great writers steal outright.'

Scott_xP

https://twitter.com/GlasgowAlbum/status/1330499149989617664

ydoethur

Mexicanpete said:

Sandpit said:

Why Hamilton is better than Schumacher:

He has always been a fair driver, races hard but knows when to draw the line and has never used underhanded tactics to advance himself.

Exhibit A:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AhNs_W5OQU

ydoethur said:

Mexicanpete said:

ydoethur said:

tlg86 said:

What makes Hamilton’s achievement’s so much better than Schumacher’s is that when won his world titles he was the undisputed number one in the team, the number two in the team was never allowed to compete for the world title, unlike Hamilton’s teammates at Mercedes.

Yes, it's the weakest point about Schumacher, but he was still exceptional.

I'd actually say that Hamilton's achievement of beating his team-mate Fernando Alonso, the then reigning two-time World Champion, is actually a bigger thing in Hamilton's favour as I don't rate Rosberg or Bottas that highly. But Alonso was a top driver and to get the better of him in a debut season was very impressive.

That said, I wouldn't put a lot of money on Hamilton for SPOTY. I think O'Sullivan has a very good chance of winning it.

It is worth reminding ourselves of how many world championships other Ferrari drivers won in Schumacher’s heyday.

And it wasn’t just because they were always ordered out of the way. He was clearly on a different level.

That being said, Hakkinen, Coulthard, Hill were fine drivers but a far cry from Alonso, Vettel, Raikonnen and Rosberg whom Hamilton had to overcome. Arguably in Schumacher’s career until Alonso’s emergence the only really outstanding driver other than him was Senna, who was of course killed early on in Schumacher’s first period of dominance.

Michael too, wasn't averse to a little chicanery around the chicanes to cement his advantage, as Damon and Prost can testify.

And Villeneuve.

Not that that helped Schumacher, of course...

Indeed. The deliberate crash with Damon went unpunished however.

So offronted was I that as a youngster I had a letter published in the Times bellyaching about Schumacher's move on Damon. Proof it were needed that the Times under Murdoch would publish any old rubbish, from any old riff-raff!

Once I remember the Times printing a whole series of letters about how the French translation of Harry Potter had missed the pun in ‘Weasley’s Wizarding Wheezes.’

You thought your letter was rubbish? They kept that up for a week.

Mexicanpete

kyf_100 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

Indeed. Sports writers are often overlooked for their genius. The greatest passage of prose in the English language was Hugh McIllvaney's eulogy for boxer Johnnie Owen.

TSE's first paragraph comes close.

It's a Frasier reference...

https://www.quotes.net/mquote/734816

TSE's or McIllvanney's?

ydoethur

Mysticrose said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

great writers steal outright.

Great writers don't go around telling others how great they are.

They have no need.

Does that make Sean Thomas a bad writer?

Sandpit

solarflare said:

It's a shame Rosberg won his title and decided to get out whilst he was ahead. Over the piece Hamilton was still clearly the better but Rosberg was more effective at getting in Hamilton's head and that provoked Hamilton back etc.

One of Hamilton's really memorable races for me was that Abu Dhabi title decider where he basically drove as slow as he dared to try and back Rosberg into the pack to get them to overtake him to build the points gap he needed, all the while studiously ignoring his team over the radio. Turned what really ought to have been a formality of a decider into something a bit more of an event worthy of the occasion.

Bottas has singularly failed to do anything like that in his time, other than the odd team radio message this season where he weakly muses out loud about trying to do an entirely different strategy but never quite pushes the issue far enough. And without that destabilising inter-team rivalry effect it's just allowed Hamilton to get more and more comfortable and he finds each subsequent title easier and easier.

I was there that day in Abu Dhabi 2016.

The order was Hamilton, Rosberg, Vettel, with Lewis needing Nico to finish third to himself take the title. Lewis drove very slowly in certain sections, so that Seb would catch up and challenge Nico.

It didn't work out for him in the end, with the order holding to the finish and Nico becoming champion.

Bottas is undoubtedly a good driver, and has certainly kept Lewis honest on Saturdays, but he's lacking that final 1% on race day against the seven-times champion.

TheScreamingEagles

Mysticrose said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

great writers steal outright.

Great writers don't go around telling others how great they are.

They have no need.

It's a pity that SeanT no longer posts on PB, he would disabuse you of that notion.

But I'm from the school of legendary modesty.

Mexicanpete

ydoethur said:

Mysticrose said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

great writers steal outright.

Great writers don't go around telling others how great they are.

They have no need.

Does that make Sean Thomas a bad writer?

A family of fine writers. There was a question about D M Thomas' Ararat a couple of weeks ago on University Challenge.

ManchesterKurt

Yesterday there was talk of Crossrail being mothballed in the media.

Today talk of a 20 year delay for the eastern arm of HS2.

Is someone leaking this for a reason in the lead up to the spending review ?

solarflare

Sandpit said:

solarflare said:

It's a shame Rosberg won his title and decided to get out whilst he was ahead. Over the piece Hamilton was still clearly the better but Rosberg was more effective at getting in Hamilton's head and that provoked Hamilton back etc.

One of Hamilton's really memorable races for me was that Abu Dhabi title decider where he basically drove as slow as he dared to try and back Rosberg into the pack to get them to overtake him to build the points gap he needed, all the while studiously ignoring his team over the radio. Turned what really ought to have been a formality of a decider into something a bit more of an event worthy of the occasion.

Bottas has singularly failed to do anything like that in his time, other than the odd team radio message this season where he weakly muses out loud about trying to do an entirely different strategy but never quite pushes the issue far enough. And without that destabilising inter-team rivalry effect it's just allowed Hamilton to get more and more comfortable and he finds each subsequent title easier and easier.

I was there that day in Abu Dhabi 2016.

The order was Hamilton, Rosberg, Vettel, with Lewis needing Nico to finish third to himself take the title. Lewis drove very slowly in certain sections, so that Seb would catch up and challenge Nico.

It didn't work out for him in the end, with the order holding to the finish and Nico becoming champion.

Bottas is undoubtedly a good driver, and has certainly kept Lewis honest on Saturdays, but he's lacking that final 1% on race day against the seven-times champion.

Thanks - couldn't remember if it was 2016 or 2017, all the hybrid seasons blur into one for me.

You're right it ultimately didn't work, but in the final few laps it did get very squeaky bum time for Rosberg as there was from memory multiple cars behind him led by Vettel.

Was certainly more entertaining than it otherwise would have been had Hamilton just drove the normal race, rather than basically upset the team and try to engineer a result for himself.

TheScreamingEagles

Mysticrose said:

Another attempt to bang the Hamilton drum by TSE I see.

He may win it but he's neither a sportsman nor a personality.

It's my first thread on the topic, sorry but I'm not banging the Hamilton, just pointing out the second favourite is unlikely to be nominated.

ydoethur

TheScreamingEagles said:

Mysticrose said:

Another attempt to bang the Hamilton drum by TSE I see.

He may win it but he's neither a sportsman nor a personality.

It's my first thread on the topic, sorry but I'm not banging the Hamilton, just pointing out the second favourite is unlikely to be nominated.

You’re not banging Hamilton, it’s Rashford you’re laying...

TheScreamingEagles

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Mysticrose said:

Another attempt to bang the Hamilton drum by TSE I see.

He may win it but he's neither a sportsman nor a personality.

It's my first thread on the topic, sorry but I'm not banging the Hamilton, just pointing out the second favourite is unlikely to be nominated.

You’re not banging Hamilton, it’s Rashford you’re laying...

Indeed.

HYUFD

Hamilton should win it, he is one of the best British sportsmen and one of the best F1 drivers ever

HYUFD

https://twitter.com/KarenPierceUK/status/1330496256314122250?s=20

paulyork64

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/GlasgowAlbum/status/1330499149989617664

sounds like nonsense to me. I'm not sure william hill even have a Sturgeon exit date market to slash the price of.

Mexicanpete

ydoethur said:

Mexicanpete said:

Sandpit said:

Why Hamilton is better than Schumacher:

He has always been a fair driver, races hard but knows when to draw the line and has never used underhanded tactics to advance himself.

Exhibit A:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AhNs_W5OQU

ydoethur said:

Mexicanpete said:

ydoethur said:

tlg86 said:

What makes Hamilton’s achievement’s so much better than Schumacher’s is that when won his world titles he was the undisputed number one in the team, the number two in the team was never allowed to compete for the world title, unlike Hamilton’s teammates at Mercedes.

Yes, it's the weakest point about Schumacher, but he was still exceptional.

I'd actually say that Hamilton's achievement of beating his team-mate Fernando Alonso, the then reigning two-time World Champion, is actually a bigger thing in Hamilton's favour as I don't rate Rosberg or Bottas that highly. But Alonso was a top driver and to get the better of him in a debut season was very impressive.

That said, I wouldn't put a lot of money on Hamilton for SPOTY. I think O'Sullivan has a very good chance of winning it.

It is worth reminding ourselves of how many world championships other Ferrari drivers won in Schumacher’s heyday.

And it wasn’t just because they were always ordered out of the way. He was clearly on a different level.

That being said, Hakkinen, Coulthard, Hill were fine drivers but a far cry from Alonso, Vettel, Raikonnen and Rosberg whom Hamilton had to overcome. Arguably in Schumacher’s career until Alonso’s emergence the only really outstanding driver other than him was Senna, who was of course killed early on in Schumacher’s first period of dominance.

Michael too, wasn't averse to a little chicanery around the chicanes to cement his advantage, as Damon and Prost can testify.

And Villeneuve.

Not that that helped Schumacher, of course...

Indeed. The deliberate crash with Damon went unpunished however.

So offronted was I that as a youngster I had a letter published in the Times bellyaching about Schumacher's move on Damon. Proof it were needed that the Times under Murdoch would publish any old rubbish, from any old riff-raff!

Once I remember the Times printing a whole series of letters about how the French translation of Harry Potter had missed the pun in ‘Weasley’s Wizarding Wheezes.’

You thought your letter was rubbish? They kept that up for a week.

For Ydoethur only.

There is a lot of comment this afternoon about Mansell. Mansell's earliest opportunity of course arose when he was signed by Bromesberrow entrepreneur Alan McKechnie's "Christal Racing". At the time Alan was the owner of Three Choirs Wines, I believe he owned a vineyard in Newent.

Kevin_McCandless

Mysticrose said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

great writers steal outright.

Great writers don't go around telling others how great they are.

They have no need.

Disagree a little? Hemingway was a tiresome bore. But he produced some great writing.

ydoethur

Mexicanpete said:

ydoethur said:

Mexicanpete said:

Sandpit said:

Why Hamilton is better than Schumacher:

He has always been a fair driver, races hard but knows when to draw the line and has never used underhanded tactics to advance himself.

Exhibit A:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AhNs_W5OQU

ydoethur said:

Mexicanpete said:

ydoethur said:

tlg86 said:

What makes Hamilton’s achievement’s so much better than Schumacher’s is that when won his world titles he was the undisputed number one in the team, the number two in the team was never allowed to compete for the world title, unlike Hamilton’s teammates at Mercedes.

Yes, it's the weakest point about Schumacher, but he was still exceptional.

I'd actually say that Hamilton's achievement of beating his team-mate Fernando Alonso, the then reigning two-time World Champion, is actually a bigger thing in Hamilton's favour as I don't rate Rosberg or Bottas that highly. But Alonso was a top driver and to get the better of him in a debut season was very impressive.

That said, I wouldn't put a lot of money on Hamilton for SPOTY. I think O'Sullivan has a very good chance of winning it.

It is worth reminding ourselves of how many world championships other Ferrari drivers won in Schumacher’s heyday.

And it wasn’t just because they were always ordered out of the way. He was clearly on a different level.

That being said, Hakkinen, Coulthard, Hill were fine drivers but a far cry from Alonso, Vettel, Raikonnen and Rosberg whom Hamilton had to overcome. Arguably in Schumacher’s career until Alonso’s emergence the only really outstanding driver other than him was Senna, who was of course killed early on in Schumacher’s first period of dominance.

Michael too, wasn't averse to a little chicanery around the chicanes to cement his advantage, as Damon and Prost can testify.

And Villeneuve.

Not that that helped Schumacher, of course...

Indeed. The deliberate crash with Damon went unpunished however.

So offronted was I that as a youngster I had a letter published in the Times bellyaching about Schumacher's move on Damon. Proof it were needed that the Times under Murdoch would publish any old rubbish, from any old riff-raff!

Once I remember the Times printing a whole series of letters about how the French translation of Harry Potter had missed the pun in ‘Weasley’s Wizarding Wheezes.’

You thought your letter was rubbish? They kept that up for a week.

For Ydoethur only.

There is a lot of comment this afternoon about Mansell. Mansell's earliest opportunity of course arose when he was signed by Bromesberrow entrepreneur Alan McKechnie's "Christal Racing". At the time Alan was the owner of Three Choirs Wines, I believe he owned a vineyard in Newent.

Well, the Three Choirs Vineyard is in Newent (or to be exact, it’s at Three Ashes on the road to Botloe’s Green).

I never realised there was that connection with Mansell. Thank you for a bit of trivia to gee me up as I try to sort out cover.

DecrepiterJohnL

Biden in a tick (unlike the Democrats!). Current Betfair prices:-

Biden 1.03
Democrats 1.04
Biden PV 1.02
Biden PV 49-51.9% 1.04
Trump PV 46-48.9% 1.04
Trump ECV 210-239 1.07
Biden ECV 300-329 1.06
Biden ECV Hcap -48.5 1.06
Biden ECV Hcap -63.5 1.07
Trump ECV Hcap +81.5 1.02

AZ Dem 1.04
GA Dem 1.04
MI Dem 1.03
NV Dem 1.03
PA Dem 1.04
WI Dem 1.04

Trump to leave before end of term NO 1.09
Trump exit date 2021 1.08

DecrepiterJohnL

Sandpit said:

Sir Lewis Hamilton for SPOTY!

Rashford hasn't won a trophy for playing sport this year, would the BBC really want to politicise such an event the week before Christmas?

Trouble is, if the BBC puts Rashford up for a special award then that can only be political, whereas if he is nominated for the main award, then whether he wins or not is down to the votes of the GBP.

Sandpit

solarflare said:

Sandpit said:

solarflare said:

It's a shame Rosberg won his title and decided to get out whilst he was ahead. Over the piece Hamilton was still clearly the better but Rosberg was more effective at getting in Hamilton's head and that provoked Hamilton back etc.

One of Hamilton's really memorable races for me was that Abu Dhabi title decider where he basically drove as slow as he dared to try and back Rosberg into the pack to get them to overtake him to build the points gap he needed, all the while studiously ignoring his team over the radio. Turned what really ought to have been a formality of a decider into something a bit more of an event worthy of the occasion.

Bottas has singularly failed to do anything like that in his time, other than the odd team radio message this season where he weakly muses out loud about trying to do an entirely different strategy but never quite pushes the issue far enough. And without that destabilising inter-team rivalry effect it's just allowed Hamilton to get more and more comfortable and he finds each subsequent title easier and easier.

I was there that day in Abu Dhabi 2016.

The order was Hamilton, Rosberg, Vettel, with Lewis needing Nico to finish third to himself take the title. Lewis drove very slowly in certain sections, so that Seb would catch up and challenge Nico.

It didn't work out for him in the end, with the order holding to the finish and Nico becoming champion.

Bottas is undoubtedly a good driver, and has certainly kept Lewis honest on Saturdays, but he's lacking that final 1% on race day against the seven-times champion.

Thanks - couldn't remember if it was 2016 or 2017, all the hybrid seasons blur into one for me.

You're right it ultimately didn't work, but in the final few laps it did get very squeaky bum time for Rosberg as there was from memory multiple cars behind him led by Vettel.

Was certainly more entertaining than it otherwise would have been had Hamilton just drove the normal race, rather than basically upset the team and try to engineer a result for himself.

Here's the quick highlights package from that race.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfUm6kKsJw

Mysticrose

HYUFD said:

Hamilton should win it, he is one of the best British sportsmen and one of the best F1 drivers ever

Yes but it's not a sport and he's not a personality: the two conditions of the trophy.

However, he probably will.

Mysticrose

TheScreamingEagles said:

Mysticrose said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

great writers steal outright.

Great writers don't go around telling others how great they are.

They have no need.

It's a pity that SeanT no longer posts on PB, he would disabuse you of that notion.

But I'm from the school of legendary modesty.

I think there's a difference between stating that you are a bestselling writer and a great writer. The former is a point of fact, the latter not something one should brag about oneself.

Mind you, I take Kevin's point below about Hemingway.

Mysticrose

I have stood on Stowe Corner and heard the thump of engines pass in a blur of senseless motion. A few minutes later and it's rinse and repeat.

Without a doubt the dullest "sport" ever known to humankind and not, in fact, a sport at all. It's a constructors' championship in a moribund and misogynistic industry flogging dead petrol engines. If F1 had any point or purpose it would have been entirely electric twenty years ago: leading the world.

And with that I bid everyone adieu. G'day all.

Mexicanpete

ydoethur said:

Mexicanpete said:

ydoethur said:

Mexicanpete said:

Sandpit said:

Why Hamilton is better than Schumacher:

He has always been a fair driver, races hard but knows when to draw the line and has never used underhanded tactics to advance himself.

Exhibit A:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AhNs_W5OQU

ydoethur said:

Mexicanpete said:

ydoethur said:

tlg86 said:

What makes Hamilton’s achievement’s so much better than Schumacher’s is that when won his world titles he was the undisputed number one in the team, the number two in the team was never allowed to compete for the world title, unlike Hamilton’s teammates at Mercedes.

Yes, it's the weakest point about Schumacher, but he was still exceptional.

I'd actually say that Hamilton's achievement of beating his team-mate Fernando Alonso, the then reigning two-time World Champion, is actually a bigger thing in Hamilton's favour as I don't rate Rosberg or Bottas that highly. But Alonso was a top driver and to get the better of him in a debut season was very impressive.

That said, I wouldn't put a lot of money on Hamilton for SPOTY. I think O'Sullivan has a very good chance of winning it.

It is worth reminding ourselves of how many world championships other Ferrari drivers won in Schumacher’s heyday.

And it wasn’t just because they were always ordered out of the way. He was clearly on a different level.

That being said, Hakkinen, Coulthard, Hill were fine drivers but a far cry from Alonso, Vettel, Raikonnen and Rosberg whom Hamilton had to overcome. Arguably in Schumacher’s career until Alonso’s emergence the only really outstanding driver other than him was Senna, who was of course killed early on in Schumacher’s first period of dominance.

Michael too, wasn't averse to a little chicanery around the chicanes to cement his advantage, as Damon and Prost can testify.

And Villeneuve.

Not that that helped Schumacher, of course...

Indeed. The deliberate crash with Damon went unpunished however.

So offronted was I that as a youngster I had a letter published in the Times bellyaching about Schumacher's move on Damon. Proof it were needed that the Times under Murdoch would publish any old rubbish, from any old riff-raff!

Once I remember the Times printing a whole series of letters about how the French translation of Harry Potter had missed the pun in ‘Weasley’s Wizarding Wheezes.’

You thought your letter was rubbish? They kept that up for a week.

For Ydoethur only.

There is a lot of comment this afternoon about Mansell. Mansell's earliest opportunity of course arose when he was signed by Bromesberrow entrepreneur Alan McKechnie's "Christal Racing". At the time Alan was the owner of Three Choirs Wines, I believe he owned a vineyard in Newent.

Well, the Three Choirs Vineyard is in Newent (or to be exact, it’s at Three Ashes on the road to Botloe’s Green).

I never realised there was that connection with Mansell. Thank you for a bit of trivia to gee me up as I try to sort out cover.

It is a seldom noted factoid about Mansell, but it can be found in his autobiography as I recall. I knew the story previously because I have known Alan's eldest daughter since 1981. Alan belonged to the British Racing Driver's Club, so we used to get complimentary tickets to Silverstone. I slept the night after the 1986 British Grand Prix in his daughter's Alfa Sud at Silverstone... alone!

Mysticrose

Mysticrose said:

I have stood on Stowe Corner and heard the thump of engines pass in a blur of senseless motion.

Not quite this ...

'I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.'

Although standing at Stowe did feel like it was time to die.

DecrepiterJohnL

Kevin_McCandless said:

Mysticrose said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

great writers steal outright.

Great writers don't go around telling others how great they are.

They have no need.

Disagree a little? Hemingway was a tiresome bore. But he produced some great writing.

Hemingway's great writing put me off English Literature O-level. A Farewell to Arms: it rains; something bad happens; rinse and repeat for 300 pages.

rpjs

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/KarenPierceUK/status/1330496256314122250?s=20

Unfortunately, it’s just not as good as American beef. Now, British (and pretty much anywhere else’s) lamb knocks spots off American lamb, but there just doesn’t seem to be enough demand for lamb here for it to be worth importing.

paulyork64

Mysticrose said:

HYUFD said:

Hamilton should win it, he is one of the best British sportsmen and one of the best F1 drivers ever

Yes but it's not a sport and he's not a personality: the two conditions of the trophy.

However, he probably will.

he was going to enter the non-sporting non-personality award but heard Iain Duncan-Smith was in it so realised he had no chance.

paulyork64

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Kevin_McCandless said:

Mysticrose said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

great writers steal outright.

Great writers don't go around telling others how great they are.

They have no need.

Disagree a little? Hemingway was a tiresome bore. But he produced some great writing.

Hemingway's great writing put me off English Literature O-level. A Farewell to Arms: it rains; something bad happens; rinse and repeat for 300 pages.

is it set in blackburn?

Malmesbury

paulyork64 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Kevin_McCandless said:

Mysticrose said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

great writers steal outright.

Great writers don't go around telling others how great they are.

They have no need.

Disagree a little? Hemingway was a tiresome bore. But he produced some great writing.

Hemingway's great writing put me off English Literature O-level. A Farewell to Arms: it rains; something bad happens; rinse and repeat for 300 pages.

is it set in blackburn?

Some Iltaian place - a lot less violent on a Friday night, certainly.

paulyork64

rpjs said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/KarenPierceUK/status/1330496256314122250?s=20

Unfortunately, it’s just not as good as American beef. Now, British (and pretty much anywhere else’s) lamb knocks spots off American lamb, but there just doesn’t seem to be enough demand for lamb here for it to be worth importing.

feels a bit crazy sending beef across the atlantic in either direction.

Malmesbury

FrancisUrquhart said:

State-sponsored hackers from China, Russia, Iran and North Korea are engaged in concerted attempts to steal coronavirus vaccine secrets in what security experts describe as “an intellectual property war”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/22/hackers-try-to-steal-covid-vaccine-secrets-in-intellectual-property-war

This made me think of what the Americans did to the Russians over computer technology for pipeline management - maybe an urban legend.

And what the UK & France were said to have done over Concorde...

But that would be hideously immoral in this case.

Then I thought of "New Rose Hotel" by Gibson.

BluestBlue

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Kevin_McCandless said:

Mysticrose said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Quincel said:

What an opening paragraph, and thread overall, bravo TSE!

great writers steal outright.

Great writers don't go around telling others how great they are.

They have no need.

Disagree a little? Hemingway was a tiresome bore. But he produced some great writing.

Hemingway's great writing put me off English Literature O-level. A Farewell to Arms: it rains; something bad happens; rinse and repeat for 300 pages.

There are ways to make it less of a slog: drink heavily and pretend it's called 'A Farewell To Legs'.

isam

You should put the prices available along with the betting recommendations I think @TheScreamingEagles

MalcolmDunn

I very much doubt it. In sport Rashford has not really achieved anything. If the BBC want to turn SPOTY into a political show then this would be the right way to go about it. I suspect Tim Davie their current DG has more sense than to do that.

Malmesbury

Andy_Cooke said:

rottenborough said:

Nigelb said:

Good article.

The “false-positive PCR” problem is not a problem
https://virologydownunder.com/the-false-positive-pcr-problem-is-not-a-problem/

He slightly undermines his argument by saying:

"they are very, very rare events that are almost always caught by the process involved in reporting test results. This process considers the lab results alongside clinical and epidemiological context and checks itself before reporting."

The clinical context is not taken into account as far as I am aware with the UK's mass testing unless they are already symptomatic.

Then again, though, if there were to be a significant problem in more cases being reported than actually occur:

- The fatality rate of covid would necessarily have to be significantly worse than our current understanding

And

- The number of people dying within 28 days of a positive result is more than 50 times higher than the background death rate - we would expect around 1000 deaths from randomly selecting that number of people and monitoring them for 28 days; we’ve had around 55,000 such deaths. Something is therefore killing them.

I really do think, therefore, that this entire false positive meme is completely unhelpful and un-useful, and I am a bit bewildered at its apparent persistence.

So we have a fake virus that fakes putting people in hospital, fakes killing them and fakes giving people long term health problems.

And fakes positives on tests.

At that point I'd have to say that COVID is pretty good at faking being a real disease.

justin124

Sandpit said:

Sir Lewis Hamilton for SPOTY!

Rashford hasn't won a trophy for playing sport this year, would the BBC really want to politicise such an event the week before Christmas?

A tax exile deserves nothing but contempt.

dixiedean

Still think Ronnie O'Sullivan might be worth a shout. He actually has a personality too.
What's the Jermain Defoe reference to?

DecrepiterJohnL

MalcolmDunn said:

I very much doubt it. In sport Rashford has not really achieved anything. If the BBC want to turn SPOTY into a political show then this would be the right way to go about it. I suspect Tim Davie their current DG has more sense than to do that.

As opposed to which other footballers?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/oct/28/marcus-rashford-hits-hat-trick-as-manchester-united-dismantle-leipzig

TheScreamingEagles

justin124 said:

Sandpit said:

Sir Lewis Hamilton for SPOTY!

Rashford hasn't won a trophy for playing sport this year, would the BBC really want to politicise such an event the week before Christmas?

A tax exile deserves nothing but contempt.

He's in the top 5,000 UK taxpayers, what's your ranking?

TheScreamingEagles

dixiedean said:

Still think Ronnie O'Sullivan might be worth a shout. He actually has a personality too.
What's the Jermain Defoe reference to?

Bradley Lowery.

https://www.irishnews.com/magazine/daily/2017/11/27/news/some-fans-are-outraged-jermain-defoe-is-missing-from-the-sports-personality-of-the-year-shortlist-1198084/

dixiedean

TheScreamingEagles said:

dixiedean said:

Still think Ronnie O'Sullivan might be worth a shout. He actually has a personality too.
What's the Jermain Defoe reference to?

Bradley Lowery.

https://www.irishnews.com/magazine/daily/2017/11/27/news/some-fans-are-outraged-jermain-defoe-is-missing-from-the-sports-personality-of-the-year-shortlist-1198084/

But of course. Ta.