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Working out Covid-19 and the political classes – politicalbetting.com

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  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,463
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    I suspect Mr Herdson means "patsies", but the point stands:

    https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1317737832333660160?s=20

    It’s annoyed some of their Tory colleagues, too.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54588025

    I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
    As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:

    https://twitter.com/JenWilliamsMEN/status/1317544791274590208?s=20
    This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.

    "English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.

    As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
    What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester. Indeed rural Scotland has more in common culturally and politically with rural Essex than it does with Glasgow as shown by its strong No vote in 2014 and the number of Tory MPs rural Scotland elected in 2017 and 2019 and the entirety of Antrim is still DUP.

    Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.

    I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
    Careful now; don't go over the top! I've lived in both suburban and rural Essex, and urban and suburban Lancashire and I've got quite a few friends and relations in the North. My experience suggests you're wrong
    You know, I’d never have guessed.
    No Essex ancestry, though. Parents met after they'd moved here.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited October 2020


    Have you ever noticed how guests on TV programs are never allowed to bring presentations? The presenters can have flashy graphics etc. The interviewee is only allowed words. Its about controlling the situation - allow one graph and they might "take back control"....

    They should just print it on a bit of cardboard and bring it along. That's what Japanese politicians do in parliament. They also sometimes get to show graphs on TV discussion programs; Ministers should just start whipping graphs out of their jackets and unfolding them on air, the TV company will feel it's their job to make sure the viewers can read it.
  • Alistair said:

    Dems are up to 1.61 creeping up slowly a hundredth at a time.

    The market sees no bad news for Trump. I swear to god they will be evens at the off.

    I must remember to transfer some more money to my betfair account.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Does the incompetence know no bounds?

    https://twitter.com/RichardNewby3/status/1317727010190479361?s=20

    If it was "too large" why the feck are people like Jo Johnson, Claire Fox or Lebedev there?

    When people cannot even come up with a plausible excuse, it is a bad sign (like when politicians fall back on the 'I'm stupid' defence for some problem).
    The argument seems to be that he deserves an undeserved peerage to compensate for the loss of a former undeserved peerage. Hard to get excited about, and his record over dealing with sex abuse by clergy is iffy.
    I'm unconcerned whether he has one or not, but as their reason for not giving him one is a nonsense, it immediately raises questions about what the actual reason is.
    Exactly right - and I was shouted down for saying the same.

    I am sure it's not due to racism but the excuse they gave means I can totally see how people have got there.
    I notice that one major issue in the Sentamu matter hasn't been mentioned - a major chunk of the Church of England despises him, and what he stands for. I could quite easily see that being a factor in this.

  • kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Does the incompetence know no bounds?

    https://twitter.com/RichardNewby3/status/1317727010190479361?s=20

    If it was "too large" why the feck are people like Jo Johnson, Claire Fox or Lebedev there?

    When people cannot even come up with a plausible excuse, it is a bad sign (like when politicians fall back on the 'I'm stupid' defence for some problem).
    The argument seems to be that he deserves an undeserved peerage to compensate for the loss of a former undeserved peerage. Hard to get excited about, and his record over dealing with sex abuse by clergy is iffy.
    I'm unconcerned whether he has one or not, but as their reason for not giving him one is a nonsense, it immediately raises questions about what the actual reason is.
    Exactly right - and I was shouted down for saying the same.

    I am sure it's not due to racism but the excuse they gave means I can totally see how people have got there.
    He isn't one of theirs. Not because he is black. Because he is sane. So no HoL seat for you.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    malcolmg said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Epping Forest population density: 390 per km^2
    United Kingdom* population density: 280 per km^2

    *Currently includes Epping Forest.

    Are there any trees in that forest
    Yes, there's an actual forest! The town of Epping is a London suburb though, the people don't live in the forest.
    Really NOT Epping Forest in that case, just plain old bigging up like all else he posts.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868


    Have you ever noticed how guests on TV programs are never allowed to bring presentations? The presenters can have flashy graphics etc. The interviewee is only allowed words. Its about controlling the situation - allow one graph and they might "take back control"....

    They should just print it on a bit of cardboard and bring it along. That's what Japanese politicians do in parliament. They also sometimes get to show graphs on TV discussion programs; Ministers should just start whipping graphs out of their jackets and unfolding them on air, the TV company will feel it's their job to make sure the viewers can read it.
    That's actually a great idea lol.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    malcolmg said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Epping Forest population density: 390 per km^2
    United Kingdom* population density: 280 per km^2

    *Currently includes Epping Forest.

    Are there any trees in that forest
    Yes. Lots. The rest of Epping's very built up, though. Apart from the aerodrome.
    OKC, I was being sarcastic, I suspect he will be far from the forest.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited October 2020
    Great header Meeks.

    The gym is keeping me going. The contribution to mental wellbeing is immense.

    My gym is disinfected to heck. Staff and users continually spraying the pink stuff. Most people go on their own, there is very little interaction with others. I`m never within 2 metres of anyone.

    I doubt they`ll be a single virus particle within the walls of my gym. If there is an odd one, and it sits on a multigym handle, and it`s recent enough to not be denatured, and I grasp that handle, and touch my face, and get infected it will likely be a very small dose. Large droplet transmission: zero chance. Aerosol possible I guess.

    My overall impression is that a gym is no riskier than a supermarket. Probably less so, in fact.

    Please let`s credit people with some agency and take a risk aware approach to such places rather than a knee-jerk risk-averse approach, which I think has an element of kill-joy in it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Foxy said:

    malcolmg said:

    He has more faces than the town clock , it will be announced soon and he will swear blind he never said "no".
    Gove is, I understand, a Scot. When you get independence, Malc, will you take him back, please.
    imho one of the main reasons Gove has started to be very anti-No Deal Brexit is that he knows a chaotic mess in the New Year will add the final lick of paint to an already almost guaranteed vote Yes for Scottish independence. He has no chance, as a scot, of becoming PM if that happens.

    I think Goves chance of becoming PM are not affected by being Scottish, even post Sindy.

    They are however adversely affected by him being a fish faced gossipy nincompoop.
    True. But I was referring to what goes on in his head rather than the rest of us.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    malcolmg said:

    He has more faces than the town clock , it will be announced soon and he will swear blind he never said "no".
    Gove is, I understand, a Scot. When you get independence, Malc, will you take him back, please.
    imho one of the main reasons Gove has started to be very anti-No Deal Brexit is that he knows a chaotic mess in the New Year will add the final lick of paint to an already almost guaranteed vote Yes for Scottish independence. He has no chance, as a scot, of becoming PM if that happens.

    Gove is almost through the ethnicity reassignment process, just some surgery to rectify his annoying, wee, Scotch face and he'll be done.
    I suspect there would be quite a queue to offer to re-arrange Gove's face.
    We could sell tickets for a prize draw. Would put a dent in the deficit.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    isam said:
    Some strong political cartoons today.
    That one illustrates a point I have been trying to make - we are back to the 2010-2015 era of major party consensus on the days big issue, and while they squabble over minor differences in opinion (exaggerated in order to give their fans something to distinguish themselves from) a significant minority, or maybe even a small minority, of the public are almost totally unrepresented in parliament
    I meant small majority, sorry
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    Unionist desperation alert, dog food salesmen has surfaced, next we will have Carlotta and Agent Pish deployed
  • Roy_G_BivRoy_G_Biv Posts: 998
    Well, apparently the ONS has whole swathes of information about the classification of output areas as urban or rural.

    Looks like Epping Forest falls just into the urban camp:
    "Urban with Significant Rural (rural including hub towns 26-49%)"

    I'm not surely exactly how much the urban/rural split is in Epping Forest (all we know is it's 50% > x > 75% urban), but I'm willing to bet cold hard cash it's 52-48%.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,463
    edited October 2020
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Epping Forest population density: 390 per km^2
    United Kingdom* population density: 280 per km^2

    *Currently includes Epping Forest.

    Are there any trees in that forest
    Yes, there's an actual forest! The town of Epping is a London suburb though, the people don't live in the forest.
    Really NOT Epping Forest in that case, just plain old bigging up like all else he posts.
    The forest, as Waltham Forest, pre-dates the town.It's one of the ancient ones.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Does the incompetence know no bounds?

    https://twitter.com/RichardNewby3/status/1317727010190479361?s=20

    If it was "too large" why the feck are people like Jo Johnson, Claire Fox or Lebedev there?

    When people cannot even come up with a plausible excuse, it is a bad sign (like when politicians fall back on the 'I'm stupid' defence for some problem).
    The argument seems to be that he deserves an undeserved peerage to compensate for the loss of a former undeserved peerage. Hard to get excited about, and his record over dealing with sex abuse by clergy is iffy.
    I'm unconcerned whether he has one or not, but as their reason for not giving him one is a nonsense, it immediately raises questions about what the actual reason is.
    Exactly right - and I was shouted down for saying the same.

    I am sure it's not due to racism but the excuse they gave means I can totally see how people have got there.
    He isn't one of theirs. Not because he is black. Because he is sane. So no HoL seat for you.
    No one sane dresses up like that and goes about the place asserting the existence of a personal god.

    Interesting to see what happens to white Etonian Welby, mind.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    An uplifting positive video, only nasty unionists unhappy at losing their last colony could see it negatively. Pity the dog food salesman does not have anything positive to say about his country , bit like "bitter and twisted Guernsey immigrant".
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    malcolmg said:

    An uplifting positive video, only nasty unionists unhappy at losing their last colony could see it negatively. Pity the dog food salesman does not have anything positive to say about his country , bit like "bitter and twisted Guernsey immigrant".
    I don't think they are complaining about the contents of the video, just that it was released when Sturgeon had claimed she suspended the campaign.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    Foxy said:

    malcolmg said:

    He has more faces than the town clock , it will be announced soon and he will swear blind he never said "no".
    Gove is, I understand, a Scot. When you get independence, Malc, will you take him back, please.
    imho one of the main reasons Gove has started to be very anti-No Deal Brexit is that he knows a chaotic mess in the New Year will add the final lick of paint to an already almost guaranteed vote Yes for Scottish independence. He has no chance, as a scot, of becoming PM if that happens.

    I think Goves chance of becoming PM are not affected by being Scottish, even post Sindy.

    They are however adversely affected by him being a fish faced gossipy nincompoop.
    Quite so re PM, as he is resident in England, will have a rUK passport (I assume!), and sits for an English constituency. Unless all Scots-born were disqualified from rUK citizenship.

    Does the electorate realise he is Scots-born? Does he have a Scots accent? I can't tell.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Does the incompetence know no bounds?

    https://twitter.com/RichardNewby3/status/1317727010190479361?s=20

    If it was "too large" why the feck are people like Jo Johnson, Claire Fox or Lebedev there?

    When people cannot even come up with a plausible excuse, it is a bad sign (like when politicians fall back on the 'I'm stupid' defence for some problem).
    The argument seems to be that he deserves an undeserved peerage to compensate for the loss of a former undeserved peerage. Hard to get excited about, and his record over dealing with sex abuse by clergy is iffy.
    I'm unconcerned whether he has one or not, but as their reason for not giving him one is a nonsense, it immediately raises questions about what the actual reason is.
    Exactly right - and I was shouted down for saying the same.

    I am sure it's not due to racism but the excuse they gave means I can totally see how people have got there.
    I notice that one major issue in the Sentamu matter hasn't been mentioned - a major chunk of the Church of England despises him, and what he stands for. I could quite easily see that being a factor in this.

    Why is that ?
    Living in York he seems well liked by most people.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    I suspect Mr Herdson means "patsies", but the point stands:

    https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1317737832333660160?s=20

    It’s annoyed some of their Tory colleagues, too.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54588025

    I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
    As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:

    https://twitter.com/JenWilliamsMEN/status/1317544791274590208?s=20
    This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.

    "English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.

    As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
    What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester. Indeed rural Scotland has more in common culturally and politically with rural Essex than it does with Glasgow as shown by its strong No vote in 2014 and the number of Tory MPs rural Scotland elected in 2017 and 2019 and the entirety of Antrim is still DUP.

    Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.

    I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
    Careful now; don't go over the top! I've lived in both suburban and rural Essex, and urban and suburban Lancashire and I've got quite a few friends and relations in the North. My experience suggests you're wrong
    You know, I’d never have guessed.
    No Essex ancestry, though. Parents met after they'd moved here.
    I was referring to your suggestion Hyufd might be in error.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884

    Jo Johnson's peerage was dreadful.

    Its not even as if he ever showed any loyalty to Boris.
    Zac Goldsmith's was worse. Absolutely waving two fingers at the electorate.
    True.

    But there's been plenty of similar cases in the past.
    Plenty of ex MPs losing seats and ending up in the Lords, sure.
    But fast-tracked into the Lords so you can continue as a Minister? That, I think, (though I'd love to learn differently) is new.
    Already a real possibility for MSPs - it's possible to be a peer and a MSP at the same time. Lord Foulkes, Baroness (to be?) Davidson.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    A forest isn't a place with trees, it's a place where the King reserves the hunting rights.

    *Gazes out of window at the treeless expanse of the Forest of Dartmoor.*
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    I suspect Mr Herdson means "patsies", but the point stands:

    https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1317737832333660160?s=20

    It’s annoyed some of their Tory colleagues, too.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54588025

    I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
    As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:

    https://twitter.com/JenWilliamsMEN/status/1317544791274590208?s=20
    This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.

    "English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.

    As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
    What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester. Indeed rural Scotland has more in common culturally and politically with rural Essex than it does with Glasgow as shown by its strong No vote in 2014 and the number of Tory MPs rural Scotland elected in 2017 and 2019 and the entirety of Antrim is still DUP.

    Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.

    I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
    Careful now; don't go over the top! I've lived in both suburban and rural Essex, and urban and suburban Lancashire and I've got quite a few friends and relations in the North. My experience suggests you're wrong
    You know, I’d never have guessed.
    No Essex ancestry, though. Parents met after they'd moved here.
    I was referring to your suggestion Hyufd might be in error.
    I can't see many Essex girls tending the sheeps and neeps round here ...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    An uplifting positive video, only nasty unionists unhappy at losing their last colony could see it negatively. Pity the dog food salesman does not have anything positive to say about his country , bit like "bitter and twisted Guernsey immigrant".
    I don't think they are complaining about the contents of the video, just that it was released when Sturgeon had claimed she suspended the campaign.
    They are not campaigning at all, as this clown knows if he is in Scotland. It is pure nastiness from a whining sad loser.
    Hopefully he takes his sorry arse out of Scotland when we are independent, we can well do without the likes of that pathetic lickspittle.
    Nothing but nastiness and negativity to add to the party. Fit him better to try and show absolutely anything positive about the union, but no they cannot.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    "Sir Keir shows his true colours: deepest red

    The supposedly moderate Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has at last revealed himself as the fanatic he really is, with his wild calls for even more mass destruction of the jobs and livelihoods of Labour voters in a so-called ‘circuit-breaker’.

    I am not surprised. Most people who report on politics in this country do not understand the subject, lacking the Marxist training which I had in my distant youth. They call Sir Keir ‘moderate’ because he is not Jeremy Corbyn. A fat lot they know.

    Jeremy Corbyn is, of course, a wild Leftist, a man of clenched-fist salutes, street protests and red banners who probably dreams of storming Buckingham Palace at the head of a detachment of Red Guards. But he is one of the obvious, old-fashioned sort, steam-powered, coal-fired. You can see him a mile off and defeat him with ease. Sir Keir is much more dangerous. His fanaticism is as smooth as the moisturiser he applies daily to his handsome face. It is designed for the age of the internet.

    But you will have to search hard for any major media mention of his stint, in his mid-20s, on the editorial board of a Trotskyist magazine called Socialist Alternatives. Its few issues can still be read on the internet. I have read them, though most of Sir Keir’s articles were written with the blunt end of a bread pudding, and are hard going.

    Ah, you may say, this was just youthful folly. People change. He’s even taken a knighthood. Except Sir Keir has not changed much. This is the age he was born for.

    In an interview with the New Statesman, he recently said: ‘I don’t think there are big issues on which I’ve changed my mind… The big issue we were grappling with then was how the Labour Party, or the Left generally, bound together the wider movement and its strands of equality – feminist politics, green politics, LGBT – which I thought was incredibly exciting, incredibly important. Broadly speaking, I think the Labour Party has done that very successfully.’

    The sect he was mixed up with in the 1980s helped pioneer the New Left – Green mixed with Red, radical sexual politics. ‘Red must be made Green, and Green must be made Red,’ they said. This way of thinking has no time for the clapped-out yelling and posturing of the Corbynites.

    It wants a cultural revolution which leaves all the buildings standing but changes everything that goes on inside them. It might find a huge economic and social convulsion, such as Johnson has visited on us, very convenient for that purpose."

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366


    Have you ever noticed how guests on TV programs are never allowed to bring presentations? The presenters can have flashy graphics etc. The interviewee is only allowed words. Its about controlling the situation - allow one graph and they might "take back control"....

    They should just print it on a bit of cardboard and bring it along. That's what Japanese politicians do in parliament. They also sometimes get to show graphs on TV discussion programs; Ministers should just start whipping graphs out of their jackets and unfolding them on air, the TV company will feel it's their job to make sure the viewers can read it.
    Interesting you should say that.

    A couple fo years back, I was talking with a BBC journalist (well freelancer who did a lot of work for the Beeb).

    I suggested just that - politician bringing in props. She was utterly appalled - said if someone did that, the cameras would be turned away, plug pulled etc. And suggested that the politician in question would be put on the do-not-invite list.

    It was quite interesting to see such a vituperative reaction - apparently the idea was an attack on journalism...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Stocky said:

    Roger said:

    The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.

    The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.

    I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
    You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.

    You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
    I'm looking for the post where he had the temerity to call you weird. I want to give it a 'like'
    I've missed you Wodger.

    The "like" button is the worst feature of the new version of this site. It looks like there's nothing that can be done about it but I think it's lowered the quality of the discussion on here.

    It encourages each side to play to their own galleries to get the most "likes" - in other words, it plays to sentimentality rather than rationality and introduces narcissism into the equation.

    The very best posts on this site get just 1-3 likes rather than 5-8 likes.

    In the old days you'd get people like @Jonathan and @SouthamObserver sometimes replying to arguments of mine saying "excellent post", which is all the praise I'd ever want or need. I'd do the same for some of theirs, we all learnt something and had a really interesting exchange of views.

    I really miss that.
    Who gives a rats-arse about "likes"?

    (Please "like" this post.)
    I haven’t given a rat’s arse, but I have given a like.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,717

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Does the incompetence know no bounds?

    https://twitter.com/RichardNewby3/status/1317727010190479361?s=20

    If it was "too large" why the feck are people like Jo Johnson, Claire Fox or Lebedev there?

    When people cannot even come up with a plausible excuse, it is a bad sign (like when politicians fall back on the 'I'm stupid' defence for some problem).
    The argument seems to be that he deserves an undeserved peerage to compensate for the loss of a former undeserved peerage. Hard to get excited about, and his record over dealing with sex abuse by clergy is iffy.
    I'm unconcerned whether he has one or not, but as their reason for not giving him one is a nonsense, it immediately raises questions about what the actual reason is.
    Exactly right - and I was shouted down for saying the same.

    I am sure it's not due to racism but the excuse they gave means I can totally see how people have got there.
    I notice that one major issue in the Sentamu matter hasn't been mentioned - a major chunk of the Church of England despises him, and what he stands for. I could quite easily see that being a factor in this.

    Absolutely, being a Christian for a start...

    https://youtu.be/bOjP1qFMv4I
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    IshmaelZ said:

    A forest isn't a place with trees, it's a place where the King reserves the hunting rights.

    *Gazes out of window at the treeless expanse of the Forest of Dartmoor.*

    Fforest Fawr too - the famously jungly summits of the Brecon Beacons, too.
  • Every like on this post is one hour I don't comment
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    An uplifting positive video, only nasty unionists unhappy at losing their last colony could see it negatively. Pity the dog food salesman does not have anything positive to say about his country , bit like "bitter and twisted Guernsey immigrant".
    I don't think they are complaining about the contents of the video, just that it was released when Sturgeon had claimed she suspended the campaign.
    They are not campaigning at all, as this clown knows if he is in Scotland. It is pure nastiness from a whining sad loser.
    Hopefully he takes his sorry arse out of Scotland when we are independent, we can well do without the likes of that pathetic lickspittle.
    Nothing but nastiness and negativity to add to the party. Fit him better to try and show absolutely anything positive about the union, but no they cannot.
    Releasing an advert like this isn't campaigning?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,717
    isam said:

    "Sir Keir shows his true colours: deepest red

    The supposedly moderate Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has at last revealed himself as the fanatic he really is, with his wild calls for even more mass destruction of the jobs and livelihoods of Labour voters in a so-called ‘circuit-breaker’.

    I am not surprised. Most people who report on politics in this country do not understand the subject, lacking the Marxist training which I had in my distant youth. They call Sir Keir ‘moderate’ because he is not Jeremy Corbyn. A fat lot they know.

    Jeremy Corbyn is, of course, a wild Leftist, a man of clenched-fist salutes, street protests and red banners who probably dreams of storming Buckingham Palace at the head of a detachment of Red Guards. But he is one of the obvious, old-fashioned sort, steam-powered, coal-fired. You can see him a mile off and defeat him with ease. Sir Keir is much more dangerous. His fanaticism is as smooth as the moisturiser he applies daily to his handsome face. It is designed for the age of the internet.

    But you will have to search hard for any major media mention of his stint, in his mid-20s, on the editorial board of a Trotskyist magazine called Socialist Alternatives. Its few issues can still be read on the internet. I have read them, though most of Sir Keir’s articles were written with the blunt end of a bread pudding, and are hard going.

    Ah, you may say, this was just youthful folly. People change. He’s even taken a knighthood. Except Sir Keir has not changed much. This is the age he was born for.

    In an interview with the New Statesman, he recently said: ‘I don’t think there are big issues on which I’ve changed my mind… The big issue we were grappling with then was how the Labour Party, or the Left generally, bound together the wider movement and its strands of equality – feminist politics, green politics, LGBT – which I thought was incredibly exciting, incredibly important. Broadly speaking, I think the Labour Party has done that very successfully.’

    The sect he was mixed up with in the 1980s helped pioneer the New Left – Green mixed with Red, radical sexual politics. ‘Red must be made Green, and Green must be made Red,’ they said. This way of thinking has no time for the clapped-out yelling and posturing of the Corbynites.

    It wants a cultural revolution which leaves all the buildings standing but changes everything that goes on inside them. It might find a huge economic and social convulsion, such as Johnson has visited on us, very convenient for that purpose."

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

    Ooh, I do hope so, that sounds rather positive about SKS.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    malcolmg said:

    He has more faces than the town clock , it will be announced soon and he will swear blind he never said "no".
    Gove is, I understand, a Scot. When you get independence, Malc, will you take him back, please.
    imho one of the main reasons Gove has started to be very anti-No Deal Brexit is that he knows a chaotic mess in the New Year will add the final lick of paint to an already almost guaranteed vote Yes for Scottish independence. He has no chance, as a scot, of becoming PM if that happens.

    I think Goves chance of becoming PM are not affected by being Scottish, even post Sindy.

    They are however adversely affected by him being a fish faced gossipy nincompoop.
    Quite so re PM, as he is resident in England, will have a rUK passport (I assume!), and sits for an English constituency. Unless all Scots-born were disqualified from rUK citizenship.

    Does the electorate realise he is Scots-born? Does he have a Scots accent? I can't tell.
    Certainly no Scottish accent I have ever heard. If he ever had one he has managed to erase it completely.
  • malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    An uplifting positive video, only nasty unionists unhappy at losing their last colony could see it negatively. Pity the dog food salesman does not have anything positive to say about his country , bit like "bitter and twisted Guernsey immigrant".
    I don't think they are complaining about the contents of the video, just that it was released when Sturgeon had claimed she suspended the campaign.
    They are not campaigning at all, as this clown knows if he is in Scotland. It is pure nastiness from a whining sad loser.
    Hopefully he takes his sorry arse out of Scotland when we are independent, we can well do without the likes of that pathetic lickspittle.
    Nothing but nastiness and negativity to add to the party. Fit him better to try and show absolutely anything positive about the union, but no they cannot.
    Hague previously said he'd be leaving Scotland and taking his business's jobs with him if Scotland had voted Yes in 2014. He seems measurably more deranged and petulantly vindictive since then so I daresay he'll be off; he can enjoy the Brexit rUK that he'd like to impose on Scotland to his heart's content.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited October 2020
    Edit: I see I have one like, that is one hour from now.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052
    isam said:

    "Sir Keir shows his true colours: deepest red

    The supposedly moderate Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has at last revealed himself as the fanatic he really is, with his wild calls for even more mass destruction of the jobs and livelihoods of Labour voters in a so-called ‘circuit-breaker’.

    I am not surprised. Most people who report on politics in this country do not understand the subject, lacking the Marxist training which I had in my distant youth. They call Sir Keir ‘moderate’ because he is not Jeremy Corbyn. A fat lot they know.

    Jeremy Corbyn is, of course, a wild Leftist, a man of clenched-fist salutes, street protests and red banners who probably dreams of storming Buckingham Palace at the head of a detachment of Red Guards. But he is one of the obvious, old-fashioned sort, steam-powered, coal-fired. You can see him a mile off and defeat him with ease. Sir Keir is much more dangerous. His fanaticism is as smooth as the moisturiser he applies daily to his handsome face. It is designed for the age of the internet.

    But you will have to search hard for any major media mention of his stint, in his mid-20s, on the editorial board of a Trotskyist magazine called Socialist Alternatives. Its few issues can still be read on the internet. I have read them, though most of Sir Keir’s articles were written with the blunt end of a bread pudding, and are hard going.

    Ah, you may say, this was just youthful folly. People change. He’s even taken a knighthood. Except Sir Keir has not changed much. This is the age he was born for.

    In an interview with the New Statesman, he recently said: ‘I don’t think there are big issues on which I’ve changed my mind… The big issue we were grappling with then was how the Labour Party, or the Left generally, bound together the wider movement and its strands of equality – feminist politics, green politics, LGBT – which I thought was incredibly exciting, incredibly important. Broadly speaking, I think the Labour Party has done that very successfully.’

    The sect he was mixed up with in the 1980s helped pioneer the New Left – Green mixed with Red, radical sexual politics. ‘Red must be made Green, and Green must be made Red,’ they said. This way of thinking has no time for the clapped-out yelling and posturing of the Corbynites.

    It wants a cultural revolution which leaves all the buildings standing but changes everything that goes on inside them. It might find a huge economic and social convulsion, such as Johnson has visited on us, very convenient for that purpose."

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

    Funnily enough the people who never shut up about Boris's membership of an Oxford drinking club never mention the far more dangerous background of many lefty moderates.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Does the incompetence know no bounds?

    https://twitter.com/RichardNewby3/status/1317727010190479361?s=20

    If it was "too large" why the feck are people like Jo Johnson, Claire Fox or Lebedev there?

    When people cannot even come up with a plausible excuse, it is a bad sign (like when politicians fall back on the 'I'm stupid' defence for some problem).
    The argument seems to be that he deserves an undeserved peerage to compensate for the loss of a former undeserved peerage. Hard to get excited about, and his record over dealing with sex abuse by clergy is iffy.
    I'm unconcerned whether he has one or not, but as their reason for not giving him one is a nonsense, it immediately raises questions about what the actual reason is.
    Exactly right - and I was shouted down for saying the same.

    I am sure it's not due to racism but the excuse they gave means I can totally see how people have got there.
    I notice that one major issue in the Sentamu matter hasn't been mentioned - a major chunk of the Church of England despises him, and what he stands for. I could quite easily see that being a factor in this.

    Absolutely, being a Christian for a start...

    https://youtu.be/bOjP1qFMv4I
    I was told that back when there was a tiny, tiny chance of him becoming Archbishop of Canterbury (ice cube in hell) that the PM in question was told that a large chunk of the Synod would stage a revolt. If he got on the short list....

    As you say - too much belief in God.... The ecumenical lot who think that the way to popularity in the modern world is for the CoE to stop with all that religion stuff.

    I could easily see Welby vetoing a peerage - he would see it as shutting him up.

    I seem to recall that there was a Yes Prime Minister one on this - a candidate for Canterbury ruled out for his belief in God. Versus something nice and safe - like believing in steam trains.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    malcolmg said:

    He has more faces than the town clock , it will be announced soon and he will swear blind he never said "no".
    Gove is, I understand, a Scot. When you get independence, Malc, will you take him back, please.
    imho one of the main reasons Gove has started to be very anti-No Deal Brexit is that he knows a chaotic mess in the New Year will add the final lick of paint to an already almost guaranteed vote Yes for Scottish independence. He has no chance, as a scot, of becoming PM if that happens.

    I think Goves chance of becoming PM are not affected by being Scottish, even post Sindy.

    They are however adversely affected by him being a fish faced gossipy nincompoop.
    Quite so re PM, as he is resident in England, will have a rUK passport (I assume!), and sits for an English constituency. Unless all Scots-born were disqualified from rUK citizenship.

    Does the electorate realise he is Scots-born? Does he have a Scots accent? I can't tell.
    Certainly no Scottish accent I have ever heard. If he ever had one he has managed to erase it completely.
    Thanks. So not even Edinburgh/Aberdeen professional then.

    I've got a completely useless ear for accents so find it impossible to judge that aspect of a pol's public image. I wonder how many of his constituents realise he's Doric by birth?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    An uplifting positive video, only nasty unionists unhappy at losing their last colony could see it negatively. Pity the dog food salesman does not have anything positive to say about his country , bit like "bitter and twisted Guernsey immigrant".
    I don't think they are complaining about the contents of the video, just that it was released when Sturgeon had claimed she suspended the campaign.
    They are not campaigning at all, as this clown knows if he is in Scotland. It is pure nastiness from a whining sad loser.
    Hopefully he takes his sorry arse out of Scotland when we are independent, we can well do without the likes of that pathetic lickspittle.
    Nothing but nastiness and negativity to add to the party. Fit him better to try and show absolutely anything positive about the union, but no they cannot.
    Releasing an advert like this isn't campaigning?
    nope
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Does the incompetence know no bounds?

    https://twitter.com/RichardNewby3/status/1317727010190479361?s=20

    If it was "too large" why the feck are people like Jo Johnson, Claire Fox or Lebedev there?

    When people cannot even come up with a plausible excuse, it is a bad sign (like when politicians fall back on the 'I'm stupid' defence for some problem).
    The argument seems to be that he deserves an undeserved peerage to compensate for the loss of a former undeserved peerage. Hard to get excited about, and his record over dealing with sex abuse by clergy is iffy.
    I'm unconcerned whether he has one or not, but as their reason for not giving him one is a nonsense, it immediately raises questions about what the actual reason is.
    Exactly right - and I was shouted down for saying the same.

    I am sure it's not due to racism but the excuse they gave means I can totally see how people have got there.
    I notice that one major issue in the Sentamu matter hasn't been mentioned - a major chunk of the Church of England despises him, and what he stands for. I could quite easily see that being a factor in this.

    Absolutely, being a Christian for a start...

    https://youtu.be/bOjP1qFMv4I
    I was told that back when there was a tiny, tiny chance of him becoming Archbishop of Canterbury (ice cube in hell) that the PM in question was told that a large chunk of the Synod would stage a revolt. If he got on the short list....

    As you say - too much belief in God.... The ecumenical lot who think that the way to popularity in the modern world is for the CoE to stop with all that religion stuff.

    I could easily see Welby vetoing a peerage - he would see it as shutting him up.

    I seem to recall that there was a Yes Prime Minister one on this - a candidate for Canterbury ruled out for his belief in God. Versus something nice and safe - like believing in steam trains.
    Bury St. Edmunds, not Canterbury.

    Most unusually, that episode made an error by saying St Edmundsbury (to give it its formal name) carried an automatic seat in the Lords, when it doesn’t- only Canterbury, York, London, Winchester and Durham do. The other 19 bishops are those with longest service, with an acceleration programme for female bishops.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    An uplifting positive video, only nasty unionists unhappy at losing their last colony could see it negatively. Pity the dog food salesman does not have anything positive to say about his country , bit like "bitter and twisted Guernsey immigrant".
    I don't think they are complaining about the contents of the video, just that it was released when Sturgeon had claimed she suspended the campaign.
    They are not campaigning at all, as this clown knows if he is in Scotland. It is pure nastiness from a whining sad loser.
    Hopefully he takes his sorry arse out of Scotland when we are independent, we can well do without the likes of that pathetic lickspittle.
    Nothing but nastiness and negativity to add to the party. Fit him better to try and show absolutely anything positive about the union, but no they cannot.
    Releasing an advert like this isn't campaigning?
    nope
    I just can't see how it isn't campaigning. When the Brexit campaign was suspended after the death of Cox, can you imagine the outrage there would have been if either the official remain or leave twitter account continued posting videos when the campaign had been suspended?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited October 2020
    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Well, apparently the ONS has whole swathes of information about the classification of output areas as urban or rural.

    Looks like Epping Forest falls just into the urban camp:
    "Urban with Significant Rural (rural including hub towns 26-49%)"

    I'm not surely exactly how much the urban/rural split is in Epping Forest (all we know is it's 50% > x > 75% urban), but I'm willing to bet cold hard cash it's 52-48%.

    Epping Forest is either the forest itself or the district not just Epping where I live and it stretches from Loughton, which used to be part of the GLC, is effectively suburban London and has a population of 31,106 through market towns like Epping, Theydon Bois, Waltham Abbey and Buckhurst Hill and Chigwell (of which Epping and Theydon Bois are the most rural of the 3) through to rural villages like North Weald, Roydon, Epping Upland, Nazeing etc.

    I don't live in Loughton, I live in Epping and in fact where I live is closer to Epping Upland than it is to Loughton
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    edited October 2020
    Fishing said:

    isam said:

    "Sir Keir shows his true colours: deepest red

    The supposedly moderate Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has at last revealed himself as the fanatic he really is, with his wild calls for even more mass destruction of the jobs and livelihoods of Labour voters in a so-called ‘circuit-breaker’.

    I am not surprised. Most people who report on politics in this country do not understand the subject, lacking the Marxist training which I had in my distant youth. They call Sir Keir ‘moderate’ because he is not Jeremy Corbyn. A fat lot they know.

    Jeremy Corbyn is, of course, a wild Leftist, a man of clenched-fist salutes, street protests and red banners who probably dreams of storming Buckingham Palace at the head of a detachment of Red Guards. But he is one of the obvious, old-fashioned sort, steam-powered, coal-fired. You can see him a mile off and defeat him with ease. Sir Keir is much more dangerous. His fanaticism is as smooth as the moisturiser he applies daily to his handsome face. It is designed for the age of the internet.

    But you will have to search hard for any major media mention of his stint, in his mid-20s, on the editorial board of a Trotskyist magazine called Socialist Alternatives. Its few issues can still be read on the internet. I have read them, though most of Sir Keir’s articles were written with the blunt end of a bread pudding, and are hard going.

    Ah, you may say, this was just youthful folly. People change. He’s even taken a knighthood. Except Sir Keir has not changed much. This is the age he was born for.

    In an interview with the New Statesman, he recently said: ‘I don’t think there are big issues on which I’ve changed my mind… The big issue we were grappling with then was how the Labour Party, or the Left generally, bound together the wider movement and its strands of equality – feminist politics, green politics, LGBT – which I thought was incredibly exciting, incredibly important. Broadly speaking, I think the Labour Party has done that very successfully.’

    The sect he was mixed up with in the 1980s helped pioneer the New Left – Green mixed with Red, radical sexual politics. ‘Red must be made Green, and Green must be made Red,’ they said. This way of thinking has no time for the clapped-out yelling and posturing of the Corbynites.

    It wants a cultural revolution which leaves all the buildings standing but changes everything that goes on inside them. It might find a huge economic and social convulsion, such as Johnson has visited on us, very convenient for that purpose."

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

    Funnily enough the people who never shut up about Boris's membership of an Oxford drinking club never mention the far more dangerous background of many lefty moderates.
    Dangerous for who, ex-members of Oxford's drinking clubs?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    malcolmg said:

    He has more faces than the town clock , it will be announced soon and he will swear blind he never said "no".
    Gove is, I understand, a Scot. When you get independence, Malc, will you take him back, please.
    imho one of the main reasons Gove has started to be very anti-No Deal Brexit is that he knows a chaotic mess in the New Year will add the final lick of paint to an already almost guaranteed vote Yes for Scottish independence. He has no chance, as a scot, of becoming PM if that happens.

    I think Goves chance of becoming PM are not affected by being Scottish, even post Sindy.

    They are however adversely affected by him being a fish faced gossipy nincompoop.
    Quite so re PM, as he is resident in England, will have a rUK passport (I assume!), and sits for an English constituency. Unless all Scots-born were disqualified from rUK citizenship.

    Does the electorate realise he is Scots-born? Does he have a Scots accent? I can't tell.
    Certainly no Scottish accent I have ever heard. If he ever had one he has managed to erase it completely.
    Thanks. So not even Edinburgh/Aberdeen professional then.

    I've got a completely useless ear for accents so find it impossible to judge that aspect of a pol's public image. I wonder how many of his constituents realise he's Doric by birth?
    yep, no sign of the fake home counties accent used by the privately educated nabbery to show he is Scottish, bit like Broon he would if really forced claim to be North British..
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    edited October 2020
    Yorkcity said:

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Does the incompetence know no bounds?

    https://twitter.com/RichardNewby3/status/1317727010190479361?s=20

    If it was "too large" why the feck are people like Jo Johnson, Claire Fox or Lebedev there?

    When people cannot even come up with a plausible excuse, it is a bad sign (like when politicians fall back on the 'I'm stupid' defence for some problem).
    The argument seems to be that he deserves an undeserved peerage to compensate for the loss of a former undeserved peerage. Hard to get excited about, and his record over dealing with sex abuse by clergy is iffy.
    I'm unconcerned whether he has one or not, but as their reason for not giving him one is a nonsense, it immediately raises questions about what the actual reason is.
    Exactly right - and I was shouted down for saying the same.

    I am sure it's not due to racism but the excuse they gave means I can totally see how people have got there.
    I notice that one major issue in the Sentamu matter hasn't been mentioned - a major chunk of the Church of England despises him, and what he stands for. I could quite easily see that being a factor in this.

    Why is that ?
    Living in York he seems well liked by most people.
    Basically you have the progressive wing of the CoE - all about getting rid of all those bothersome decisive things. Like doctrine.

    Sentamu from the traditionalist wing. As is much of the CoE - outside the UK.

    It's a culture war, essentially. Conductive with academic* levels of loathing and backstabbing.

    His popularity with the general public is seen as a count against him, by the way - "self aggrandising", "populist" etc. By those who are totally ignored by the population at large....

    *academic politics has to be seen to be believed. I believe the nastiness and ferocity is only matched by the culture in charities. The average politician would be barbecue in minutes in such an environment.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    An uplifting positive video, only nasty unionists unhappy at losing their last colony could see it negatively. Pity the dog food salesman does not have anything positive to say about his country , bit like "bitter and twisted Guernsey immigrant".
    I don't think they are complaining about the contents of the video, just that it was released when Sturgeon had claimed she suspended the campaign.
    They are not campaigning at all, as this clown knows if he is in Scotland. It is pure nastiness from a whining sad loser.
    Hopefully he takes his sorry arse out of Scotland when we are independent, we can well do without the likes of that pathetic lickspittle.
    Nothing but nastiness and negativity to add to the party. Fit him better to try and show absolutely anything positive about the union, but no they cannot.
    Hague previously said he'd be leaving Scotland and taking his business's jobs with him if Scotland had voted Yes in 2014. He seems measurably more deranged and petulantly vindictive since then so I daresay he'll be off; he can enjoy the Brexit rUK that he'd like to impose on Scotland to his heart's content.
    there will be a warm welcome for him in Guernsey
  • Fishing said:

    isam said:

    "Sir Keir shows his true colours: deepest red

    The supposedly moderate Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has at last revealed himself as the fanatic he really is, with his wild calls for even more mass destruction of the jobs and livelihoods of Labour voters in a so-called ‘circuit-breaker’.

    I am not surprised. Most people who report on politics in this country do not understand the subject, lacking the Marxist training which I had in my distant youth. They call Sir Keir ‘moderate’ because he is not Jeremy Corbyn. A fat lot they know.

    Jeremy Corbyn is, of course, a wild Leftist, a man of clenched-fist salutes, street protests and red banners who probably dreams of storming Buckingham Palace at the head of a detachment of Red Guards. But he is one of the obvious, old-fashioned sort, steam-powered, coal-fired. You can see him a mile off and defeat him with ease. Sir Keir is much more dangerous. His fanaticism is as smooth as the moisturiser he applies daily to his handsome face. It is designed for the age of the internet.

    But you will have to search hard for any major media mention of his stint, in his mid-20s, on the editorial board of a Trotskyist magazine called Socialist Alternatives. Its few issues can still be read on the internet. I have read them, though most of Sir Keir’s articles were written with the blunt end of a bread pudding, and are hard going.

    Ah, you may say, this was just youthful folly. People change. He’s even taken a knighthood. Except Sir Keir has not changed much. This is the age he was born for.

    In an interview with the New Statesman, he recently said: ‘I don’t think there are big issues on which I’ve changed my mind… The big issue we were grappling with then was how the Labour Party, or the Left generally, bound together the wider movement and its strands of equality – feminist politics, green politics, LGBT – which I thought was incredibly exciting, incredibly important. Broadly speaking, I think the Labour Party has done that very successfully.’

    The sect he was mixed up with in the 1980s helped pioneer the New Left – Green mixed with Red, radical sexual politics. ‘Red must be made Green, and Green must be made Red,’ they said. This way of thinking has no time for the clapped-out yelling and posturing of the Corbynites.

    It wants a cultural revolution which leaves all the buildings standing but changes everything that goes on inside them. It might find a huge economic and social convulsion, such as Johnson has visited on us, very convenient for that purpose."

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

    Funnily enough the people who never shut up about Boris's membership of an Oxford drinking club never mention the far more dangerous background of many lefty moderates.
    Can't remember the last time anyone (other than righties saying lefties never shut up about it) mentioned the Bullingdon on here. Righties going on about anyone left of David Cameron being slavering apostles of a new Marxist paradise otoh...
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    That's just a neutral presentation of facts.
  • Roy_G_BivRoy_G_Biv Posts: 998
    HYUFD said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Well, apparently the ONS has whole swathes of information about the classification of output areas as urban or rural.

    Looks like Epping Forest falls just into the urban camp:
    "Urban with Significant Rural (rural including hub towns 26-49%)"

    I'm not surely exactly how much the urban/rural split is in Epping Forest (all we know is it's 50% > x > 75% urban), but I'm willing to bet cold hard cash it's 52-48%.

    Epping Forest is either the forest itself or the district not just Epping where I live and it stretches from Loughton, which used to be part of the GLC, is effectively suburban London and has a population of 31,106 through market towns like Epping, Theydon Bois, Waltham Abbey and Buckhurst Hill and Chigwell (of which Epping and Theydon Bois are the most rural of the 3) through to rural villages like North Weald, Roydon, Epping Upland, Nazeing etc.

    I don't live in Loughton, I live in Epping and in fact where I live is closer to Epping Upland than it is to Loughton
    My house is urban but my back garden is rural.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Epping Forest population density: 390 per km^2
    United Kingdom* population density: 280 per km^2

    *Currently includes Epping Forest.

    Are there any trees in that forest
    Yes, there's an actual forest! The town of Epping is a London suburb though, the people don't live in the forest.
    Really NOT Epping Forest in that case, just plain old bigging up like all else he posts.
    The forest, as Waltham Forest, pre-dates the town.It's one of the ancient ones.
    It’s long, but fairly thin, and separates Chingford from Woodford. So not entirely without purpose in this world.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    edited October 2020
    James Frayne, focus group expert:


    "Unquestionably, scepticism is only prevalent amongst a minority, but my guess is not for long."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/18/no-10-must-forget-polls-grasp-shift-public-opinion/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Alistair said:

    That's just a neutral presentation of facts.
    Can you say that again, but in a Peter Cook voice?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,859
    Foxy said:

    malcolmg said:

    He has more faces than the town clock , it will be announced soon and he will swear blind he never said "no".
    Gove is, I understand, a Scot. When you get independence, Malc, will you take him back, please.
    imho one of the main reasons Gove has started to be very anti-No Deal Brexit is that he knows a chaotic mess in the New Year will add the final lick of paint to an already almost guaranteed vote Yes for Scottish independence. He has no chance, as a scot, of becoming PM if that happens.

    I think Goves chance of becoming PM are not affected by being Scottish, even post Sindy.

    They are however adversely affected by him being a fish faced gossipy nincompoop.
    Nailed on then?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    From the Frayne piece:

    "The Prime Minister might carry public opinion with him in a face-off with Andy Burnham this weekend, but he has left himself open to people saying in a few weeks’ time: Burnham was right."

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Dems are up to 1.61 creeping up slowly a hundredth at a time.

    The market sees no bad news for Trump. I swear to god they will be evens at the off.

    I must remember to transfer some more money to my betfair account.
    1.62, tick tick tick
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,717
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    malcolmg said:

    He has more faces than the town clock , it will be announced soon and he will swear blind he never said "no".
    Gove is, I understand, a Scot. When you get independence, Malc, will you take him back, please.
    imho one of the main reasons Gove has started to be very anti-No Deal Brexit is that he knows a chaotic mess in the New Year will add the final lick of paint to an already almost guaranteed vote Yes for Scottish independence. He has no chance, as a scot, of becoming PM if that happens.

    I think Goves chance of becoming PM are not affected by being Scottish, even post Sindy.

    They are however adversely affected by him being a fish faced gossipy nincompoop.
    Nailed on then?
    Absolutely, I am green on the little toad.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,859
    isam said:

    "Sir Keir shows his true colours: deepest red

    The supposedly moderate Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has at last revealed himself as the fanatic he really is, with his wild calls for even more mass destruction of the jobs and livelihoods of Labour voters in a so-called ‘circuit-breaker’.

    I am not surprised. Most people who report on politics in this country do not understand the subject, lacking the Marxist training which I had in my distant youth. They call Sir Keir ‘moderate’ because he is not Jeremy Corbyn. A fat lot they know.

    Jeremy Corbyn is, of course, a wild Leftist, a man of clenched-fist salutes, street protests and red banners who probably dreams of storming Buckingham Palace at the head of a detachment of Red Guards. But he is one of the obvious, old-fashioned sort, steam-powered, coal-fired. You can see him a mile off and defeat him with ease. Sir Keir is much more dangerous. His fanaticism is as smooth as the moisturiser he applies daily to his handsome face. It is designed for the age of the internet.

    But you will have to search hard for any major media mention of his stint, in his mid-20s, on the editorial board of a Trotskyist magazine called Socialist Alternatives. Its few issues can still be read on the internet. I have read them, though most of Sir Keir’s articles were written with the blunt end of a bread pudding, and are hard going.

    Ah, you may say, this was just youthful folly. People change. He’s even taken a knighthood. Except Sir Keir has not changed much. This is the age he was born for.

    In an interview with the New Statesman, he recently said: ‘I don’t think there are big issues on which I’ve changed my mind… The big issue we were grappling with then was how the Labour Party, or the Left generally, bound together the wider movement and its strands of equality – feminist politics, green politics, LGBT – which I thought was incredibly exciting, incredibly important. Broadly speaking, I think the Labour Party has done that very successfully.’

    The sect he was mixed up with in the 1980s helped pioneer the New Left – Green mixed with Red, radical sexual politics. ‘Red must be made Green, and Green must be made Red,’ they said. This way of thinking has no time for the clapped-out yelling and posturing of the Corbynites.

    It wants a cultural revolution which leaves all the buildings standing but changes everything that goes on inside them. It might find a huge economic and social convulsion, such as Johnson has visited on us, very convenient for that purpose."

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

    It's a good try but it's not going to convince anyone not already convinced that everyone to the left of David Cameron is a dangerous fanatic.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    HYUFD said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Well, apparently the ONS has whole swathes of information about the classification of output areas as urban or rural.

    Looks like Epping Forest falls just into the urban camp:
    "Urban with Significant Rural (rural including hub towns 26-49%)"

    I'm not surely exactly how much the urban/rural split is in Epping Forest (all we know is it's 50% > x > 75% urban), but I'm willing to bet cold hard cash it's 52-48%.

    Epping Forest is either the forest itself or the district not just Epping where I live and it stretches from Loughton, which used to be part of the GLC, is effectively suburban London and has a population of 31,106 through market towns like Epping, Theydon Bois, Waltham Abbey and Buckhurst Hill and Chigwell (of which Epping and Theydon Bois are the most rural of the 3) through to rural villages like North Weald, Roydon, Epping Upland, Nazeing etc.

    I don't live in Loughton, I live in Epping and in fact where I live is closer to Epping Upland than it is to Loughton
    According to Wiki, Loughton has never been in the GLC.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited October 2020

    James Frayne, focus group expert:


    "Unquestionably, scepticism is only prevalent amongst a minority, but my guess is not for long."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/18/no-10-must-forget-polls-grasp-shift-public-opinion/

    Yes, the public is being remarkably stubborn in refusing to sacrifice itself on the altar of dogmatic, conspiracist libertarianism...
  • Roy_G_Biv said:

    I wonder how many more examples of "us" and "them" the Tories can get away with before their new coalition falls apart and is unrecoverable for another 40 years

    UK politics in the last few years has had a distinctly French Revolution feel, with fissiparous ideologues purging one another. By my estimation the referendum was the storming of the Bastille, leaving the EU was the execution of Louis XVI.
    I expect Robespierre to fall before the end of summer 2021.
    Sounds interesting and raises the question who's been cast for the Bonaparte role? Gove, Priti, Nigel, Tommy, Toby Young?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137

    HYUFD said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Well, apparently the ONS has whole swathes of information about the classification of output areas as urban or rural.

    Looks like Epping Forest falls just into the urban camp:
    "Urban with Significant Rural (rural including hub towns 26-49%)"

    I'm not surely exactly how much the urban/rural split is in Epping Forest (all we know is it's 50% > x > 75% urban), but I'm willing to bet cold hard cash it's 52-48%.

    Epping Forest is either the forest itself or the district not just Epping where I live and it stretches from Loughton, which used to be part of the GLC, is effectively suburban London and has a population of 31,106 through market towns like Epping, Theydon Bois, Waltham Abbey and Buckhurst Hill and Chigwell (of which Epping and Theydon Bois are the most rural of the 3) through to rural villages like North Weald, Roydon, Epping Upland, Nazeing etc.

    I don't live in Loughton, I live in Epping and in fact where I live is closer to Epping Upland than it is to Loughton
    According to Wiki, Loughton has never been in the GLC.
    Loughton is part of the Greater London urban area unlike Epping and Debden was indeed created by the old London County Council
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    Well, apparently the ONS has whole swathes of information about the classification of output areas as urban or rural.

    Looks like Epping Forest falls just into the urban camp:
    "Urban with Significant Rural (rural including hub towns 26-49%)"

    I'm not surely exactly how much the urban/rural split is in Epping Forest (all we know is it's 50% > x > 75% urban), but I'm willing to bet cold hard cash it's 52-48%.

    Epping Forest is either the forest itself or the district not just Epping where I live and it stretches from Loughton, which used to be part of the GLC, is effectively suburban London and has a population of 31,106 through market towns like Epping, Theydon Bois, Waltham Abbey and Buckhurst Hill and Chigwell (of which Epping and Theydon Bois are the most rural of the 3) through to rural villages like North Weald, Roydon, Epping Upland, Nazeing etc.

    I don't live in Loughton, I live in Epping and in fact where I live is closer to Epping Upland than it is to Loughton
    According to Wiki, Loughton has never been in the GLC.
    Loughton is part of the Greater London urban area unlike Epping and Debden was indeed created by the old London County Council
    That may be right, but it wasn't in the GLC. Urban areas and metroploitan areas are less specific than county areas.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Stocky said:

    Aerosol possible I guess.

    There's your problem, it's probably why there are so many clusters in gyms, and none of the measures you mention will fix it.

    Any shared space with heavy breathing indoors is dangerous. In theory you can fix it with ventilation, but in a lot of buildings that won't be practical, and in any case British people still seem to be mainly ignoring that aspect of the thing for reasons I'm not clear about.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884

    Yorkcity said:

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Does the incompetence know no bounds?

    https://twitter.com/RichardNewby3/status/1317727010190479361?s=20

    If it was "too large" why the feck are people like Jo Johnson, Claire Fox or Lebedev there?

    When people cannot even come up with a plausible excuse, it is a bad sign (like when politicians fall back on the 'I'm stupid' defence for some problem).
    The argument seems to be that he deserves an undeserved peerage to compensate for the loss of a former undeserved peerage. Hard to get excited about, and his record over dealing with sex abuse by clergy is iffy.
    I'm unconcerned whether he has one or not, but as their reason for not giving him one is a nonsense, it immediately raises questions about what the actual reason is.
    Exactly right - and I was shouted down for saying the same.

    I am sure it's not due to racism but the excuse they gave means I can totally see how people have got there.
    I notice that one major issue in the Sentamu matter hasn't been mentioned - a major chunk of the Church of England despises him, and what he stands for. I could quite easily see that being a factor in this.

    Why is that ?
    Living in York he seems well liked by most people.
    Basically you have the progressive wing of the CoE - all about getting rid of all those bothersome decisive things. Like doctrine.

    Sentamu from the traditionalist wing. As is much of the CoE - outside the UK.

    It's a culture war, essentially. Conductive with academic* levels of loathing and backstabbing.

    His popularity with the general public is seen as a count against him, by the way - "self aggrandising", "populist" etc. By those who are totally ignored by the population at large....

    *academic politics has to be seen to be believed. I believe the nastiness and ferocity is only matched by the culture in charities. The average politician would be barbecue in minutes in such an environment.
    I must admit I was somewhat taken aback by the Oxford college as exemplified by Christ Church and its war with its bishop/head of college.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    An uplifting positive video, only nasty unionists unhappy at losing their last colony could see it negatively. Pity the dog food salesman does not have anything positive to say about his country , bit like "bitter and twisted Guernsey immigrant".
    I don't think they are complaining about the contents of the video, just that it was released when Sturgeon had claimed she suspended the campaign.
    They are not campaigning at all, as this clown knows if he is in Scotland. It is pure nastiness from a whining sad loser.
    Hopefully he takes his sorry arse out of Scotland when we are independent, we can well do without the likes of that pathetic lickspittle.
    Nothing but nastiness and negativity to add to the party. Fit him better to try and show absolutely anything positive about the union, but no they cannot.
    Releasing an advert like this isn't campaigning?
    nope
    I just can't see how it isn't campaigning. When the Brexit campaign was suspended after the death of Cox, can you imagine the outrage there would have been if either the official remain or leave twitter account continued posting videos when the campaign had been suspended?
    They certainly ain't trying for independence any time soon.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    Carnyx said:

    Yorkcity said:

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Does the incompetence know no bounds?

    https://twitter.com/RichardNewby3/status/1317727010190479361?s=20

    If it was "too large" why the feck are people like Jo Johnson, Claire Fox or Lebedev there?

    When people cannot even come up with a plausible excuse, it is a bad sign (like when politicians fall back on the 'I'm stupid' defence for some problem).
    The argument seems to be that he deserves an undeserved peerage to compensate for the loss of a former undeserved peerage. Hard to get excited about, and his record over dealing with sex abuse by clergy is iffy.
    I'm unconcerned whether he has one or not, but as their reason for not giving him one is a nonsense, it immediately raises questions about what the actual reason is.
    Exactly right - and I was shouted down for saying the same.

    I am sure it's not due to racism but the excuse they gave means I can totally see how people have got there.
    I notice that one major issue in the Sentamu matter hasn't been mentioned - a major chunk of the Church of England despises him, and what he stands for. I could quite easily see that being a factor in this.

    Why is that ?
    Living in York he seems well liked by most people.
    Basically you have the progressive wing of the CoE - all about getting rid of all those bothersome decisive things. Like doctrine.

    Sentamu from the traditionalist wing. As is much of the CoE - outside the UK.

    It's a culture war, essentially. Conductive with academic* levels of loathing and backstabbing.

    His popularity with the general public is seen as a count against him, by the way - "self aggrandising", "populist" etc. By those who are totally ignored by the population at large....

    *academic politics has to be seen to be believed. I believe the nastiness and ferocity is only matched by the culture in charities. The average politician would be barbecue in minutes in such an environment.
    I must admit I was somewhat taken aback by the Oxford college as exemplified by Christ Church and its war with its bishop/head of college.
    I remember the startled reception that my suggestion for an improvement in academic behaviour got.

    It was quite simple - in the event of someone getting someone else's research grant reduced, there would be no possibility of the first academic getting the money had to his/her work. Instead they would have *their* grant reduced by an equal amount.

    So back stabbing would become suicide.

    This suggestion was met with what might politely be described as contempt.....
  • Roy_G_Biv said:

    I wonder how many more examples of "us" and "them" the Tories can get away with before their new coalition falls apart and is unrecoverable for another 40 years

    UK politics in the last few years has had a distinctly French Revolution feel, with fissiparous ideologues purging one another. By my estimation the referendum was the storming of the Bastille, leaving the EU was the execution of Louis XVI.
    I expect Robespierre to fall before the end of summer 2021.
    Sounds interesting and raises the question who's been cast for the Bonaparte role? Gove, Priti, Nigel, Tommy, Toby Young?
    I hesitate to ask who is going to be skewered in their bath.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    Stocky said:

    Aerosol possible I guess.

    There's your problem, it's probably why there are so many clusters in gyms, and none of the measures you mention will fix it.

    Any shared space with heavy breathing indoors is dangerous. In theory you can fix it with ventilation, but in a lot of buildings that won't be practical, and in any case British people still seem to be mainly ignoring that aspect of the thing for reasons I'm not clear about.
    Because the government has duped a whole load of people into thinking that as long as they are 2m from anyone then they are safe.

    The message should be to avoid indoor environments whenever possible. But it isn't.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    Stocky said:

    Aerosol possible I guess.

    There's your problem, it's probably why there are so many clusters in gyms, and none of the measures you mention will fix it.

    Any shared space with heavy breathing indoors is dangerous. In theory you can fix it with ventilation, but in a lot of buildings that won't be practical, and in any case British people still seem to be mainly ignoring that aspect of the thing for reasons I'm not clear about.
    Think stupidity and pig headedness.
  • felix said:
    The simple unspeakable truth has always been that the UK approach to this crisis has throughout had more in common with Sweden than either extreme side of the debate likes to admit.
  • guybrushguybrush Posts: 257
    Maxed out on Biden now. Received an automated "You seem to be betting a lot mate, you alright?" email today. Plenty of skin in the game now!
  • DavidL said:

    isam said:

    "Sir Keir shows his true colours: deepest red

    The supposedly moderate Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has at last revealed himself as the fanatic he really is, with his wild calls for even more mass destruction of the jobs and livelihoods of Labour voters in a so-called ‘circuit-breaker’.

    I am not surprised. Most people who report on politics in this country do not understand the subject, lacking the Marxist training which I had in my distant youth. They call Sir Keir ‘moderate’ because he is not Jeremy Corbyn. A fat lot they know.

    Jeremy Corbyn is, of course, a wild Leftist, a man of clenched-fist salutes, street protests and red banners who probably dreams of storming Buckingham Palace at the head of a detachment of Red Guards. But he is one of the obvious, old-fashioned sort, steam-powered, coal-fired. You can see him a mile off and defeat him with ease. Sir Keir is much more dangerous. His fanaticism is as smooth as the moisturiser he applies daily to his handsome face. It is designed for the age of the internet.

    But you will have to search hard for any major media mention of his stint, in his mid-20s, on the editorial board of a Trotskyist magazine called Socialist Alternatives. Its few issues can still be read on the internet. I have read them, though most of Sir Keir’s articles were written with the blunt end of a bread pudding, and are hard going.

    Ah, you may say, this was just youthful folly. People change. He’s even taken a knighthood. Except Sir Keir has not changed much. This is the age he was born for.

    In an interview with the New Statesman, he recently said: ‘I don’t think there are big issues on which I’ve changed my mind… The big issue we were grappling with then was how the Labour Party, or the Left generally, bound together the wider movement and its strands of equality – feminist politics, green politics, LGBT – which I thought was incredibly exciting, incredibly important. Broadly speaking, I think the Labour Party has done that very successfully.’

    The sect he was mixed up with in the 1980s helped pioneer the New Left – Green mixed with Red, radical sexual politics. ‘Red must be made Green, and Green must be made Red,’ they said. This way of thinking has no time for the clapped-out yelling and posturing of the Corbynites.

    It wants a cultural revolution which leaves all the buildings standing but changes everything that goes on inside them. It might find a huge economic and social convulsion, such as Johnson has visited on us, very convenient for that purpose."

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

    It's a good try but it's not going to convince anyone not already convinced that everyone to the left of David Cameron is a dangerous fanatic.
    I thought he was convinced David Cameron was a dangerous leftwing fanatic?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Only Alastair Meeks would begin an article, 'Let's step outside the Westminster bubble.'

    Trademark pomposity.

    I'm not in a Westminster bubble, ta very much.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    edited October 2020
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    malcolmg said:

    He has more faces than the town clock , it will be announced soon and he will swear blind he never said "no".
    Gove is, I understand, a Scot. When you get independence, Malc, will you take him back, please.
    imho one of the main reasons Gove has started to be very anti-No Deal Brexit is that he knows a chaotic mess in the New Year will add the final lick of paint to an already almost guaranteed vote Yes for Scottish independence. He has no chance, as a scot, of becoming PM if that happens.

    I think Goves chance of becoming PM are not affected by being Scottish, even post Sindy.

    They are however adversely affected by him being a fish faced gossipy nincompoop.
    Quite so re PM, as he is resident in England, will have a rUK passport (I assume!), and sits for an English constituency. Unless all Scots-born were disqualified from rUK citizenship.

    Does the electorate realise he is Scots-born? Does he have a Scots accent? I can't tell.
    Certainly no Scottish accent I have ever heard. If he ever had one he has managed to erase it completely.
    Thanks. So not even Edinburgh/Aberdeen professional then.

    I've got a completely useless ear for accents so find it impossible to judge that aspect of a pol's public image. I wonder how many of his constituents realise he's Doric by birth?
    yep, no sign of the fake home counties accent used by the privately educated nabbery to show he is Scottish, bit like Broon he would if really forced claim to be North British..
    All that having been taken into account, I should say I feel it would be utterly shabby for his opponents both outside and especially within the Party to make any mention of his personal origins (rather like the abuse Mr Brown got from the Tory backbenchers) . There are, pari passu, plenty of English born and (until recently) the odd French MSP in the SNP and other partries in Holyrood, and so there should be.

    Even so I rather suspect Mr G's opponents - especially those aiming to succeed Mr J as PM - would make very sure his origins were gratuitously highlighted and try and ensure that he was in for an extra dollop of sharn if Brexit led to indyref 2 being lost and the midden exploded as a result. So he's got a special incentive there re indyref.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,859

    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    "Sir Keir shows his true colours: deepest red

    The supposedly moderate Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has at last revealed himself as the fanatic he really is, with his wild calls for even more mass destruction of the jobs and livelihoods of Labour voters in a so-called ‘circuit-breaker’.

    I am not surprised. Most people who report on politics in this country do not understand the subject, lacking the Marxist training which I had in my distant youth. They call Sir Keir ‘moderate’ because he is not Jeremy Corbyn. A fat lot they know.

    Jeremy Corbyn is, of course, a wild Leftist, a man of clenched-fist salutes, street protests and red banners who probably dreams of storming Buckingham Palace at the head of a detachment of Red Guards. But he is one of the obvious, old-fashioned sort, steam-powered, coal-fired. You can see him a mile off and defeat him with ease. Sir Keir is much more dangerous. His fanaticism is as smooth as the moisturiser he applies daily to his handsome face. It is designed for the age of the internet.

    But you will have to search hard for any major media mention of his stint, in his mid-20s, on the editorial board of a Trotskyist magazine called Socialist Alternatives. Its few issues can still be read on the internet. I have read them, though most of Sir Keir’s articles were written with the blunt end of a bread pudding, and are hard going.

    Ah, you may say, this was just youthful folly. People change. He’s even taken a knighthood. Except Sir Keir has not changed much. This is the age he was born for.

    In an interview with the New Statesman, he recently said: ‘I don’t think there are big issues on which I’ve changed my mind… The big issue we were grappling with then was how the Labour Party, or the Left generally, bound together the wider movement and its strands of equality – feminist politics, green politics, LGBT – which I thought was incredibly exciting, incredibly important. Broadly speaking, I think the Labour Party has done that very successfully.’

    The sect he was mixed up with in the 1980s helped pioneer the New Left – Green mixed with Red, radical sexual politics. ‘Red must be made Green, and Green must be made Red,’ they said. This way of thinking has no time for the clapped-out yelling and posturing of the Corbynites.

    It wants a cultural revolution which leaves all the buildings standing but changes everything that goes on inside them. It might find a huge economic and social convulsion, such as Johnson has visited on us, very convenient for that purpose."

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

    It's a good try but it's not going to convince anyone not already convinced that everyone to the left of David Cameron is a dangerous fanatic.
    I thought he was convinced David Cameron was a dangerous leftwing fanatic?
    I must say that crossed my mind as I was writing it.
  • The story in the Mirror where the PM is so impoverished that he thinks he needs to quit and earn some money to pay for his various children.

    If he didn't shag anything that walked he wouldn't have that problem...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    malcolmg said:

    Stocky said:

    Aerosol possible I guess.

    There's your problem, it's probably why there are so many clusters in gyms, and none of the measures you mention will fix it.

    Any shared space with heavy breathing indoors is dangerous. In theory you can fix it with ventilation, but in a lot of buildings that won't be practical, and in any case British people still seem to be mainly ignoring that aspect of the thing for reasons I'm not clear about.
    Think stupidity and pig headedness.
    More like - "I will absolutely follow the rules and condemn anyone who breaks them. Until it touches upon my personal convenience."
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    The more I read about Biden's policy, the less I like him. Pro-trade union, anti-school choice, let rip on immigration and removing some controls.

    I know what I'd do if I were British. In America, I'd abstain and go 3rd party - I couldn't vote to endorse that.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Stocky said:

    Aerosol possible I guess.

    There's your problem, it's probably why there are so many clusters in gyms, and none of the measures you mention will fix it.

    Any shared space with heavy breathing indoors is dangerous. In theory you can fix it with ventilation, but in a lot of buildings that won't be practical, and in any case British people still seem to be mainly ignoring that aspect of the thing for reasons I'm not clear about.
    Because the government has duped a whole load of people into thinking that as long as they are 2m from anyone then they are safe.

    The message should be to avoid indoor environments whenever possible. But it isn't.
    I think this is the reason for the growth in cases across Europe as people start to socialize indoors as it gets colder and darker.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    I wonder how many more examples of "us" and "them" the Tories can get away with before their new coalition falls apart and is unrecoverable for another 40 years

    UK politics in the last few years has had a distinctly French Revolution feel, with fissiparous ideologues purging one another. By my estimation the referendum was the storming of the Bastille, leaving the EU was the execution of Louis XVI.
    I expect Robespierre to fall before the end of summer 2021.
    Sounds interesting and raises the question who's been cast for the Bonaparte role? Gove, Priti, Nigel, Tommy, Toby Young?
    I hesitate to ask who is going to be skewered in their bath.
    I saw that waxwork at Madame Tussaud's when I was 8. The horror of it ...
  • Roy_G_BivRoy_G_Biv Posts: 998

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    I wonder how many more examples of "us" and "them" the Tories can get away with before their new coalition falls apart and is unrecoverable for another 40 years

    UK politics in the last few years has had a distinctly French Revolution feel, with fissiparous ideologues purging one another. By my estimation the referendum was the storming of the Bastille, leaving the EU was the execution of Louis XVI.
    I expect Robespierre to fall before the end of summer 2021.
    Sounds interesting and raises the question who's been cast for the Bonaparte role? Gove, Priti, Nigel, Tommy, Toby Young?
    First off, they have to be highly competent to fit the Napoleon role. That ought to narrow it down somewhat.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited October 2020

    The story in the Mirror where the PM is so impoverished that he thinks he needs to quit and earn some money to pay for his various children.

    If he didn't shag anything that walked he wouldn't have that problem...

    Funny how the people who most affect to disapprove of the PM's love life can't help, er, banging on about it every five minutes...

    Never fails to remind me of those US Republicans who drone on endlessly about sinners and fornication while secretly either enthusiastically participating in the same or desperately wishing they were.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2020
    guybrush said:

    Maxed out on Biden now. Received an automated "You seem to be betting a lot mate, you alright?" email today. Plenty of skin in the game now!

    Should have waited a week at it will be more like Biden 1.8

    This market is more bonkers than the Obama-Romney free money fest.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    "Sir Keir shows his true colours: deepest red

    The supposedly moderate Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has at last revealed himself as the fanatic he really is, with his wild calls for even more mass destruction of the jobs and livelihoods of Labour voters in a so-called ‘circuit-breaker’.

    I am not surprised. Most people who report on politics in this country do not understand the subject, lacking the Marxist training which I had in my distant youth. They call Sir Keir ‘moderate’ because he is not Jeremy Corbyn. A fat lot they know.

    Jeremy Corbyn is, of course, a wild Leftist, a man of clenched-fist salutes, street protests and red banners who probably dreams of storming Buckingham Palace at the head of a detachment of Red Guards. But he is one of the obvious, old-fashioned sort, steam-powered, coal-fired. You can see him a mile off and defeat him with ease. Sir Keir is much more dangerous. His fanaticism is as smooth as the moisturiser he applies daily to his handsome face. It is designed for the age of the internet.

    But you will have to search hard for any major media mention of his stint, in his mid-20s, on the editorial board of a Trotskyist magazine called Socialist Alternatives. Its few issues can still be read on the internet. I have read them, though most of Sir Keir’s articles were written with the blunt end of a bread pudding, and are hard going.

    Ah, you may say, this was just youthful folly. People change. He’s even taken a knighthood. Except Sir Keir has not changed much. This is the age he was born for.

    In an interview with the New Statesman, he recently said: ‘I don’t think there are big issues on which I’ve changed my mind… The big issue we were grappling with then was how the Labour Party, or the Left generally, bound together the wider movement and its strands of equality – feminist politics, green politics, LGBT – which I thought was incredibly exciting, incredibly important. Broadly speaking, I think the Labour Party has done that very successfully.’

    The sect he was mixed up with in the 1980s helped pioneer the New Left – Green mixed with Red, radical sexual politics. ‘Red must be made Green, and Green must be made Red,’ they said. This way of thinking has no time for the clapped-out yelling and posturing of the Corbynites.

    It wants a cultural revolution which leaves all the buildings standing but changes everything that goes on inside them. It might find a huge economic and social convulsion, such as Johnson has visited on us, very convenient for that purpose."

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

    It's a good try but it's not going to convince anyone not already convinced that everyone to the left of David Cameron is a dangerous fanatic.
    I thought he was convinced David Cameron was a dangerous leftwing fanatic?
    I must say that crossed my mind as I was writing it.
    It crossed my mind to reply saying that!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    alex_ said:

    Roger said:

    The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.

    The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.

    I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
    You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.

    You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
    I'm looking for the post where he had the temerity to call you weird. I want to give it a 'like'
    I've missed you Wodger.

    The "like" button is the worst feature of the new version of this site. It looks like there's nothing that can be done about it but I think it's lowered the quality of the discussion on here.

    It encourages each side to play to their own galleries to get the most "likes" - in other words, it plays to sentimentality rather than rationality and introduces narcissism into the equation.

    The very best posts on this site get just 1-3 likes rather than 5-8 likes.

    In the old days you'd get people like @Jonathan and @SouthamObserver sometimes replying to arguments of mine saying "excellent post", which is all the praise I'd ever want or need. I'd do the same for some of theirs, we all learnt something and had a really interesting exchange of views.

    I really miss that.
    There are people who actually post on this site monitoring the amount of "likes" you get? How do you even do that?
    Oh, almost everyone does it. It's just hardly anyone admits to it.

    It's like masturbation.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    "Sir Keir shows his true colours: deepest red

    The supposedly moderate Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has at last revealed himself as the fanatic he really is, with his wild calls for even more mass destruction of the jobs and livelihoods of Labour voters in a so-called ‘circuit-breaker’.

    I am not surprised. Most people who report on politics in this country do not understand the subject, lacking the Marxist training which I had in my distant youth. They call Sir Keir ‘moderate’ because he is not Jeremy Corbyn. A fat lot they know.

    Jeremy Corbyn is, of course, a wild Leftist, a man of clenched-fist salutes, street protests and red banners who probably dreams of storming Buckingham Palace at the head of a detachment of Red Guards. But he is one of the obvious, old-fashioned sort, steam-powered, coal-fired. You can see him a mile off and defeat him with ease. Sir Keir is much more dangerous. His fanaticism is as smooth as the moisturiser he applies daily to his handsome face. It is designed for the age of the internet.

    But you will have to search hard for any major media mention of his stint, in his mid-20s, on the editorial board of a Trotskyist magazine called Socialist Alternatives. Its few issues can still be read on the internet. I have read them, though most of Sir Keir’s articles were written with the blunt end of a bread pudding, and are hard going.

    Ah, you may say, this was just youthful folly. People change. He’s even taken a knighthood. Except Sir Keir has not changed much. This is the age he was born for.

    In an interview with the New Statesman, he recently said: ‘I don’t think there are big issues on which I’ve changed my mind… The big issue we were grappling with then was how the Labour Party, or the Left generally, bound together the wider movement and its strands of equality – feminist politics, green politics, LGBT – which I thought was incredibly exciting, incredibly important. Broadly speaking, I think the Labour Party has done that very successfully.’

    The sect he was mixed up with in the 1980s helped pioneer the New Left – Green mixed with Red, radical sexual politics. ‘Red must be made Green, and Green must be made Red,’ they said. This way of thinking has no time for the clapped-out yelling and posturing of the Corbynites.

    It wants a cultural revolution which leaves all the buildings standing but changes everything that goes on inside them. It might find a huge economic and social convulsion, such as Johnson has visited on us, very convenient for that purpose."

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

    It's a good try but it's not going to convince anyone not already convinced that everyone to the left of David Cameron is a dangerous fanatic.
    I thought he was convinced David Cameron was a dangerous leftwing fanatic?
    I must say that crossed my mind as I was writing it.
    Great minds think alike ...

    (Let's see who plays the smartarse response)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Carnyx said:

    Roy_G_Biv said:

    I wonder how many more examples of "us" and "them" the Tories can get away with before their new coalition falls apart and is unrecoverable for another 40 years

    UK politics in the last few years has had a distinctly French Revolution feel, with fissiparous ideologues purging one another. By my estimation the referendum was the storming of the Bastille, leaving the EU was the execution of Louis XVI.
    I expect Robespierre to fall before the end of summer 2021.
    Sounds interesting and raises the question who's been cast for the Bonaparte role? Gove, Priti, Nigel, Tommy, Toby Young?
    I hesitate to ask who is going to be skewered in their bath.
    I saw that waxwork at Madame Tussaud's when I was 8. The horror of it ...
    How now, Marat? Dead for a duck it, dead.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    The more I read about Biden's policy, the less I like him. Pro-trade union, anti-school choice, let rip on immigration and removing some controls.

    I know what I'd do if I were British. In America, I'd abstain and go 3rd party - I couldn't vote to endorse that.

    As I was saying a while ago, it is one of the most left wing platforms American politics has seen for a long while. The idea that Biden has embraced the centre ground to defeat Trump is a fallacy.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,884
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    An uplifting positive video, only nasty unionists unhappy at losing their last colony could see it negatively. Pity the dog food salesman does not have anything positive to say about his country , bit like "bitter and twisted Guernsey immigrant".
    I don't think they are complaining about the contents of the video, just that it was released when Sturgeon had claimed she suspended the campaign.
    They are not campaigning at all, as this clown knows if he is in Scotland. It is pure nastiness from a whining sad loser.
    Hopefully he takes his sorry arse out of Scotland when we are independent, we can well do without the likes of that pathetic lickspittle.
    Nothing but nastiness and negativity to add to the party. Fit him better to try and show absolutely anything positive about the union, but no they cannot.
    Releasing an advert like this isn't campaigning?
    nope
    I just can't see how it isn't campaigning. When the Brexit campaign was suspended after the death of Cox, can you imagine the outrage there would have been if either the official remain or leave twitter account continued posting videos when the campaign had been suspended?
    They certainly ain't trying for independence any time soon.
    It's also difficult to describe Mr Johnson, Mr Sunak and Mr Ross (in the latter's time off from footy) doing anything other than campaigning, certainly in Scotland - and in the former's case in England for much of the time (hard hats, yellow sarks, etc.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    alex_ said:

    Roger said:

    The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.

    The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.

    I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
    You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.

    You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
    I'm looking for the post where he had the temerity to call you weird. I want to give it a 'like'
    I've missed you Wodger.

    The "like" button is the worst feature of the new version of this site. It looks like there's nothing that can be done about it but I think it's lowered the quality of the discussion on here.

    It encourages each side to play to their own galleries to get the most "likes" - in other words, it plays to sentimentality rather than rationality and introduces narcissism into the equation.

    The very best posts on this site get just 1-3 likes rather than 5-8 likes.

    In the old days you'd get people like @Jonathan and @SouthamObserver sometimes replying to arguments of mine saying "excellent post", which is all the praise I'd ever want or need. I'd do the same for some of theirs, we all learnt something and had a really interesting exchange of views.

    I really miss that.
    There are people who actually post on this site monitoring the amount of "likes" you get? How do you even do that?
    Oh, almost everyone does it. It's just hardly anyone admits to it.

    It's like masturbation.
    Sunil admits to it fairly regularly.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Gove used to sound more Scottish.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,103
    edited October 2020

    The more I read about Biden's policy, the less I like him. Pro-trade union, anti-school choice, let rip on immigration and removing some controls.

    I know what I'd do if I were British. In America, I'd abstain and go 3rd party - I couldn't vote to endorse that.

    And remember most of the other candidates, including Harris, where even further to the left...so how much further will he be dragged by the likes of his VP and the loud voices in his own party.

    Personally, I can't see him putting up much resistance, given half the time he can't even remember if he is running for senate or POTUS...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.

    The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.

    I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
    You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.

    You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
    I'm looking for the post where he had the temerity to call you weird. I want to give it a 'like'
    I've missed you Wodger.

    The "like" button is the worst feature of the new version of this site. It looks like there's nothing that can be done about it but I think it's lowered the quality of the discussion on here.

    It encourages each side to play to their own galleries to get the most "likes" - in other words, it plays to sentimentality rather than rationality and introduces narcissism into the equation.

    The very best posts on this site get just 1-3 likes rather than 5-8 likes.

    In the old days you'd get people like @Jonathan and @SouthamObserver sometimes replying to arguments of mine saying "excellent post", which is all the praise I'd ever want or need. I'd do the same for some of theirs, we all learnt something and had a really interesting exchange of views.

    I really miss that.
    I find your premise to be a bit short on evidence and a little strange. The most 'liked' posts are almost certainly going to be ones which are jokes, and most people don't use the feature at all so the idea it has enouraged a deterioration of debate quality I think is perception more than reality.
    Yes, many jokes are an exception. Usually because they're apolitical and unrelated to a position.

    I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on the quality of the debate. Many of the best posters on here now post far less frequently, including Southam Observer, Charles, Sean Fear, David Herdson, Alastair Meeks, Tissue Price, and others. Others like Richard Nabavi and Jonathan post much less frequently.

    Meanwhile, the trolling is high. I think that's pretty obvious to those with their eyes open.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Only Alastair Meeks would begin an article, 'Let's step outside the Westminster bubble.'

    Trademark pomposity.

    I'm not in a Westminster bubble, ta very much.

    No but you are a pompous arse, O Great Author.
  • Meanwhile, with respect to HYUFD's rural places for rural people in Tier 1 vs urban scummers in Tier 2, a nice story of a village divided. Most of the tourist hotspot village is allegedly NYCC rural enough to be Tier 1, the few dozen houses across the beck are pox-ridden Redcar & Cleveland:

    https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/village-divided-picturesque-seaside-hamlet-19117938?fbclid=IwAR33zXQg-5zXmRPPT0P1UuywILQovyqdGBheTRvwiAeIFsXBw8VQHTrX2xw
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    Does the incompetence know no bounds?

    https://twitter.com/RichardNewby3/status/1317727010190479361?s=20

    If it was "too large" why the feck are people like Jo Johnson, Claire Fox or Lebedev there?

    When people cannot even come up with a plausible excuse, it is a bad sign (like when politicians fall back on the 'I'm stupid' defence for some problem).
    The argument seems to be that he deserves an undeserved peerage to compensate for the loss of a former undeserved peerage. Hard to get excited about, and his record over dealing with sex abuse by clergy is iffy.
    I'm unconcerned whether he has one or not, but as their reason for not giving him one is a nonsense, it immediately raises questions about what the actual reason is.
    Exactly right - and I was shouted down for saying the same.

    I am sure it's not due to racism but the excuse they gave means I can totally see how people have got there.
    I notice that one major issue in the Sentamu matter hasn't been mentioned - a major chunk of the Church of England despises him, and what he stands for. I could quite easily see that being a factor in this.

    Absolutely, being a Christian for a start...

    https://youtu.be/bOjP1qFMv4I
    I was told that back when there was a tiny, tiny chance of him becoming Archbishop of Canterbury (ice cube in hell) that the PM in question was told that a large chunk of the Synod would stage a revolt. If he got on the short list....

    As you say - too much belief in God.... The ecumenical lot who think that the way to popularity in the modern world is for the CoE to stop with all that religion stuff.

    I could easily see Welby vetoing a peerage - he would see it as shutting him up.

    I seem to recall that there was a Yes Prime Minister one on this - a candidate for Canterbury ruled out for his belief in God. Versus something nice and safe - like believing in steam trains.
    Nah, it's because (at the time) Sentamu was seen to be a bit too popular (populist?) and playing to the public gallery, which was resented by others in the Synod.

    The most likely reason he's been deferred in this batch has nothing to do with his race and is because he went quite Remainy in the last couple of years.
This discussion has been closed.