I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You mean tier 1. Tier 3 is the highest level. Think of it like a multi storey car park.
Yes Tier 1 sorry but the point remains vast areas of the North, particularly rural Cumbria and North Yorkshire have had no extra restrictions at all and are still only in the medium tier whereas highly populated parts of the South like Essex and Elmbridge and of course London are now in the high Tier 2
The population of these "vast areas of the North" are tiny. All the major population centres are in at least Tier 2 now.
No, Hull for example is still only in tier 1
Okay? Hull & Carlisle. Brilliant.
The point remains that you look like a pillock.
Oh no that is quite clearly you, given Hull has a population of 261,149
So Hull's population, less than 2% of the population of the North, is in Tier 1.
The fact is that all the major population centres in the North, with the exception of Hull (lol), are now in at least Tier 2.
I live in Epping, population 11, 461.
We are hardly a major population centre but still in Tier 2, if we were a market town in Cumbria or North Yorkshire we would likely still only be in Tier 1
Your original point was that "vast areas of the North are in Tier 1" which is just downright misleading. I was merely highlighting that fact.
Nope, it was not misleading, Cumbria and North Yorkshire are 'vast areas of the North' as any map would show you and Hull is also a major population centre, over 20 times the size of Epping and Hull is in Tier 1 while we are in Tier 2
It was misleading, and now I've corrected you. So I'm glad we've settled that one.
I really think people overplay the north south divide. Electorally there isn't that much evidence of anti-southness being a huge factor, when the big two are both big in the south (Labour pretty much in London, technically), and it feels like a self fulfilling prophecy where the true fact of not enough attention being paid to the north - something that's gone on for a long long time and which politicians always promise to address - gets conflated into some seething extreme position.
Indeed, rural Essex has far more in common with rural North Yorkshire culturally and politically than it does with Greater Manchester and Greater Manchester has far more in common culturally and politically with Greater London than it does with rural Cumbria, the rural urban divide here and in the US and indeed much of Europe and Australia and Canada is much greater than any regional divide
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You mean tier 1. Tier 3 is the highest level. Think of it like a multi storey car park.
Yes Tier 1 sorry but the point remains vast areas of the North, particularly rural Cumbria and North Yorkshire have had no extra restrictions at all and are still only in the medium tier whereas highly populated parts of the South like Essex and Elmbridge and of course London are now in the high Tier 2
The population of these "vast areas of the North" are tiny. All the major population centres are in at least Tier 2 now.
No, Hull for example is still only in tier 1
Okay? Hull & Carlisle. Brilliant.
The point remains that you look like a pillock.
Oh no that is quite clearly you, given Hull has a population of 261,149
I don't know Hull at all well, only been there a couple of times, but while it's locally important it hasn't the hinterland of say, Leeds, Bradford or Manchester.
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
Jennifer Williams is a superb journalist. Her articles on the Manchester grooming gangs were outstanding.
I wonder how many more examples of "us" and "them" the Tories can get away with before their new coalition falls apart and is unrecoverable for another 40 years
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
I'm looking for the post where he had the temerity to call you weird. I want to give it a 'like'
I've missed you Wodger.
The "like" button is the worst feature of the new version of this site. It looks like there's nothing that can be done about it but I think it's lowered the quality of the discussion on here.
It encourages each side to play to their own galleries to get the most "likes" - in other words, it plays to sentimentality rather than rationality and introduces narcissism into the equation.
The very best posts on this site get just 1-3 likes rather than 5-8 likes.
In the old days you'd get people like @Jonathan and @SouthamObserver sometimes replying to arguments of mine saying "excellent post", which is all the praise I'd ever want or need. I'd do the same for some of theirs, we all learnt something and had a really interesting exchange of views.
I really miss that.
I find your premise to be a bit short on evidence and a little strange. The most 'liked' posts are almost certainly going to be ones which are jokes, and most people don't use the feature at all so the idea it has enouraged a deterioration of debate quality I think is perception more than reality.
The Left, with a level of patronisation only they specialise in, think Sentamu should have been given a peerage because he's black.
I think he should be given a peerage because he's a retiring archbishop and has made an extraordinary contribution to public debate - which he will continue to do in the Lords - including speaking out sensibly for cultural conservatism when rather few of his colleagues in the Synod were doing so.
He's intelligent, rational, moderate and sensible - Boris should be bending over backwards to honour him appropriately.
I haven't heard anybody say that he should be given a peerage because he is black. I think there is a suspicion that the government would have given him one if he were white, which is a different point.
I don´t think this government would have. They are busy packing both houses of Parliament with their toady friends - so sensible critics of the government are not wanted. A shame, of course, and a disgrace and, in the long run, a disaster.
I really think people overplay the north south divide. Electorally there isn't that much evidence of anti-southness being a huge factor, when the big two are both big in the south (Labour pretty much in London, technically), and it feels like a self fulfilling prophecy where the true fact of not enough attention being paid to the north - something that's gone on for a long long time and which politicians always promise to address - gets conflated into some seething extreme position.
And you can differentiate further - there's a difference between northern cities and northern towns and northern rural areas.
Given that covid is concentrated in the cities other areas don't want to be restricted because of it.
The Left, with a level of patronisation only they specialise in, think Sentamu should have been given a peerage because he's black.
I think he should be given a peerage because he's a retiring archbishop and has made an extraordinary contribution to public debate - which he will continue to do in the Lords - including speaking out sensibly for cultural conservatism when rather few of his colleagues in the Synod were doing so.
He's intelligent, rational, moderate and sensible - Boris should be bending over backwards to honour him appropriately.
I'm left, why does his skin colour matter? You're inventing a fake culture war again
Did you even read my post?
It's THE LEFT that are banging on about his skin colour. Not me. The whole point of my post is that I DON'T GIVE A SHIT.
Don't bother engaging with my posts if you're going to be deliberately disingenuous.
I have better things to do with my time.
No need to be rude to me, I only asked a question.
As somebody of the left, I haven't banged on about his skin colour at all, I note the Times have mentioned it, are they the Left now?
"The Left" is not a homogenous entity, you're doing exactly what you accuse people of doing when they bring identity politics into a debate. You're a hypocrite.
You've been rude to me by accusing me of falsifying and inventing things - that's very rude. And then you end your post with a direct insult.
You're actually a bit of an idiot. You only "like" a conservative poster, or say something positive about them, when they're telling you things you want to hear, like how well Starmer is doing or the effectiveness of his strategy. Otherwise you get very cross and you just can't handle it. It's a sign of your immaturity.
To the subject in hand: reporting or mentioning the story is quite right, and not the issue. But the citations from Lord Woolley and Carey in the article as well as Adonis all major on the fact he's black, and they are all of the Left.
I find that deeply patronising. It's your camp that insists on continually inserting it - wake up. I'm upset about it because Sentamu makes exceptional contributions to public life and I value him on his own merits. I know tens of thousands of Conservatives feel the same way. I want to take identity politics out of it.
I expect this to be swiftly rectified.
Frankly, were I Sentamu I would refuse membership of an organisation which has people like Claire Fox in it. The PM has utterly devalued the currency with this appointment.
Sentamu is someone whose opinions are certainly worth hearing. On this I agree.
Yes, I’m not a great fan of some of his opinions, but I respect him as someone worth listening to. Fox, on the other hand, is an absurd appointment.
I really think people overplay the north south divide. Electorally there isn't that much evidence of anti-southness being a huge factor, when the big two are both big in the south (Labour pretty much in London, technically), and it feels like a self fulfilling prophecy where the true fact of not enough attention being paid to the north - something that's gone on for a long long time and which politicians always promise to address - gets conflated into some seething extreme position.
Indeed. But this very thing was what happened in Scotland. Drip, drip, drip. Each by themselves seemingly insignificant and effecting no discernible change. Then the dam suddenly burst.
Rawnsley reports that Gove is basically absolutely shitting the bed over a No Deal crash out as he has been trying to implement the counter measures to contain the chaos, especially on foods and meds. He has presented Treasury with an "eye watering" bill of cost of a No Deal countermeasures and Sunak has gone white with fear. We are talking massive government debt on top of already massive covid debt.
There is now a "No to No Deal" group of Cabinet ministers.
Let's hope they prevail and stop Cummings lunacy.
It is inconceivable to me that they will countenance no deal in the current circumstances. If they do it will simply prove that the government is so inept, irresponsible and criminally negligent that even a harsh critic like me couldn't imagine it.
I think the solution at this stage is a provisional deal where detailed negotiations on state aid, fishing and governance are parked until next year. Not an extension. The Kent lorry park madness etc will still go ahead but the can is kicked on the most contentious bits.
It will be an almost total capitulation at best, promoted by these lying toerags as a victory. However they are really stupid enough to go for No Deal.
This EU "Australia-style" arrangement being talked about for the UK.... I cant see how that would reflect the reality- Australian exports are dependent on China in ways that the UK could never be - is it because key UK voters think wealth, sunshine and warm feelings when Australia is mentioned, a bit like a security blanket, but wholly misleading?
No you are wrong. UK perceptions of how nice other countries are to live in has absolutely nothing to do with it. The Government has careful considered every other world country's trading relationship with the EU and concluded that Australia gives the best representation.
Really?
What do you think?
They looked for something that sounds plausible but doesn’t exist in reality so that supporters of the lunacy can go round shrieking Australia style deal
Do i have to actually state "this post is laced with sarcasm" for this to be understood?
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester. Indeed rural Scotland has more in common culturally and politically with rural Essex than it does with Glasgow as shown by its strong No vote in 2014 and the number of Tory MPs rural Scotland elected in 2017 and 2019 and the entirety of Antrim is still DUP.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
This EU "Australia-style" arrangement being talked about for the UK.... I cant see how that would reflect the reality- Australian exports are dependent on China in ways that the UK could never be - is it because key UK voters think wealth, sunshine and warm feelings when Australia is mentioned, a bit like a security blanket, but wholly misleading?
No you are wrong. UK perceptions of how nice other countries are to live in has absolutely nothing to do with it. The Government has careful considered every other world country's trading relationship with the EU and concluded that Australia gives the best representation.
MPs should debate this petition, given that it has exceeded 100,000 signatures. Indeed MPs WILL debate this petition, given that ... . Thus a few MPs will turn up in Westminister Hall, with a government representative there to say that it's bang out of order.
If it was "too large" why the feck are people like Jo Johnson, Claire Fox or Lebedev there?
When people cannot even come up with a plausible excuse, it is a bad sign (like when politicians fall back on the 'I'm stupid' defence for some problem).
I doubt racism played any role in this - just sheer intergalactic incompetence. Which is almost worse, given the current situation.
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
Imagine describing Epping as "rural Essex". It has a bloody tube station.
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
I'm looking for the post where he had the temerity to call you weird. I want to give it a 'like'
I've missed you Wodger.
The "like" button is the worst feature of the new version of this site. It looks like there's nothing that can be done about it but I think it's lowered the quality of the discussion on here.
It encourages each side to play to their own galleries to get the most "likes" - in other words, it plays to sentimentality rather than rationality and introduces narcissism into the equation.
The very best posts on this site get just 1-3 likes rather than 5-8 likes.
In the old days you'd get people like @Jonathan and @SouthamObserver sometimes replying to arguments of mine saying "excellent post", which is all the praise I'd ever want or need. I'd do the same for some of theirs, we all learnt something and had a really interesting exchange of views.
I really miss that.
I find your premise to be a bit short on evidence and a little strange. The most 'liked' posts are almost certainly going to be ones which are jokes, and most people don't use the feature at all so the idea it has enouraged a deterioration of debate quality I think is perception more than reality.
Absolutely. The most liked comment on this thread by a considerable distance is @Mexicanpete's "Its life gym, but not as we know it."
I also use likes as a means of thanks where there is an enlightening link or as an acknowledgement when someone has replied to me but I don't have anything else to say about the particular topic because we are in agreement. I think they are useful and don't check my total likes more than 20 times a day, ever.
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
Imagine describing Epping as "rural Essex". It has a bloody tube station.
Situation in London - no one gives a fuck about tier 2, everyone just thinks that pubs and restaurants are being scapegoated for poor planning by the government. No support for the two week circuit breaker, no support for tier 2 or 3 and everyone wants to get rid of the 10pm closing time.
What was interesting was the unanimous thinking on the circuit breaker, "changes nothing" and "back to where we are now a few days after its ends". In a lovely piece of solidarity with the North there was also support for Andy Burnham against the government, the actual northerner was fuming at how badly the North is being treated.
Obviously this is a self selected group of people happy to break the rules in the first place so it's not going to be representative, however, I've not met an irl person who supports the two week circuit breaker or if they do it's usually "only if it's definitely just two weeks, they should make that the law".
There was real fear that if the country goes back into lockdown we won't come back out even if there's a vaccine. Worries that now they have all of this control over how people live the politicians won't want to give it up and will use other health "emergencies" or climate "emergency" to keep many of the measures in place.
The Ministry of Justice said the Queen was advised to grant this pardon as a result of Gallant’s “exceptionally brave actions […] which helped save people’s lives despite the tremendous risk to his own”.
In an extraordinary turn of events, the family of firefighter Barrie Jackson, whom Gallant killed outside a pub in Hull, backed the decision to free the murderer early.
Jackson’s student son Jack, 21, said: “I have mixed emotions – but what happened at London Bridge goes to show the reality that people can change,” adding that he would not rule out meeting his father’s killer one day...
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You do realise that Barrow in Furness is in Cumbria?
I really think people overplay the north south divide. Electorally there isn't that much evidence of anti-southness being a huge factor, when the big two are both big in the south (Labour pretty much in London, technically), and it feels like a self fulfilling prophecy where the true fact of not enough attention being paid to the north - something that's gone on for a long long time and which politicians always promise to address - gets conflated into some seething extreme position.
Indeed. But this very thing was what happened in Scotland. Drip, drip, drip. Each by themselves seemingly insignificant and effecting no discernible change. Then the dam suddenly burst.
A depressing thought indeed, but, and I accept this is itself short on evidence, I get the impression the sudden burst of breathless 'divided nation' headlines and articles is classic political and media overreaction to a novel situation, a hook to give the story interest which, no doubt, many people are buying. There's nothing unusual in our highly centralised state for things to be dictated from Whitehall, not always very well either, and I don't see how current events which are driven by a genuine and defendable need for a regional reaction actually have anything to do with the wider systemic issues of lack of sufficient engagement or investment in the North.
Tying the historic issues in with the Covid stuff just looks dumb to me.
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
I'm looking for the post where he had the temerity to call you weird. I want to give it a 'like'
@Roger Very glad to see you back Roger, I missed your posts. I wondered yesterday if it was an imposter , glad to see you are well.
I wonder how many more examples of "us" and "them" the Tories can get away with before their new coalition falls apart and is unrecoverable for another 40 years
UK politics in the last few years has had a distinctly French Revolution feel, with fissiparous ideologues purging one another. By my estimation the referendum was the storming of the Bastille, leaving the EU was the execution of Louis XVI. I expect Robespierre to fall before the end of summer 2021.
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
Imagine describing Epping as "rural Essex". It has a bloody tube station.
So what, it also has plenty of farmers and is surrounded by forest and fields and countryside, it is the end of the line.
You also get train commuters to Leeds and York in rural North Yorkshire you know
He has more faces than the town clock , it will be announced soon and he will swear blind he never said "no".
Gove is, I understand, a Scot. When you get independence, Malc, will you take him back, please.
imho one of the main reasons Gove has started to be very anti-No Deal Brexit is that he knows a chaotic mess in the New Year will add the final lick of paint to an already almost guaranteed vote Yes for Scottish independence. He has no chance, as a scot, of becoming PM if that happens.
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
Imagine describing Epping as "rural Essex". It has a bloody tube station.
Does HYUFD have any credibility left?
Not with the left but I never had any with them anyway so of course I could not care less
As a child I used to spend my school holidays at my grandfather’s house in Bolsover. I’m just old enough to remember the pits being open. It felt a world away from my home in Woking.
Nowadays those two places don’t feel all that different.
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
Imagine describing Epping as "rural Essex". It has a bloody tube station.
Does HYUFD have any credibility left?
Not with the left but I never had any with them anyway so of course I could not care less
No it's just that you post a lot of wrong/biased information it seems. Your polling for Trump has been oddly one-sided and has certainly damaged your standing, IMHO.
Keep posting your thoughts though, they're interesting and you're always good mannered unlike some other right wingers on here.
I would caution against using "the Left" as one homogenous entity, we have different views and thoughts, just as you do on the right.
For example I'm in full support of remaining part of NATO and keeping the nuclear deterrent.
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
Imagine describing Epping as "rural Essex". It has a bloody tube station.
OK, so i'm loving the newly discovered "like" function. Anyone know if there's a way to find out which are your most liked posts?
I don't think so, though it seems in your profile you can click on the summary of how many likes you have recieved and it will flag up every post which received a like if people want to replay their greatest hits.
I think the most I ever received was musing on the difference between a pantry and a larder, and if one was post and the other not. (I'd say a larder is posh, for info).
Edit: Tell a lie, it was a joke about Cicero. Good times.
This EU "Australia-style" arrangement being talked about for the UK.... I cant see how that would reflect the reality- Australian exports are dependent on China in ways that the UK could never be - is it because key UK voters think wealth, sunshine and warm feelings when Australia is mentioned, a bit like a security blanket, but wholly misleading?
No you are wrong. UK perceptions of how nice other countries are to live in has absolutely nothing to do with it. The Government has careful considered every other world country's trading relationship with the EU and concluded that Australia gives the best representation.
Really?
What do you think?
They looked for something that sounds plausible but doesn’t exist in reality so that supporters of the lunacy can go round shrieking Australia style deal
Do i have to actually state "this post is laced with sarcasm" for this to be understood?
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
Imagine describing Epping as "rural Essex". It has a bloody tube station.
Does HYUFD have any credibility left?
Not with the left but I never had any with them anyway so of course I could not care less
No it's just that you post a lot of wrong/biased information it seems. Your polling for Trump has been oddly one-sided and has certainly damaged your standing, IMHO.
Keep posting your thoughts though, they're interesting and you're always good mannered unlike some other right wingers on here.
I would caution against using "the Left" as one homogenous entity, we have different views and thoughts, just as you do on the right.
For example I'm in full support of remaining part of NATO and keeping the nuclear deterrent.
We will see on election night, if Trump is narrowly re elected in the EC even if Biden wins the popular vote due to shy Trumps again, especially in the MidWest, there will be some on here with egg on their face but I will not be amongst them.
Of course Biden could win, all I am doing is offering a counter view to the certainty of a Biden landslide many on here seem to hold, I am not even a Trump supporter like say Mr Ed
The Ministry of Justice said the Queen was advised to grant this pardon as a result of Gallant’s “exceptionally brave actions […] which helped save people’s lives despite the tremendous risk to his own”.
In an extraordinary turn of events, the family of firefighter Barrie Jackson, whom Gallant killed outside a pub in Hull, backed the decision to free the murderer early.
Jackson’s student son Jack, 21, said: “I have mixed emotions – but what happened at London Bridge goes to show the reality that people can change,” adding that he would not rule out meeting his father’s killer one day...
Am I alone in thinking, hmm...still up for a fight then?
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
Imagine describing Epping as "rural Essex". It has a bloody tube station.
Does HYUFD have any credibility left?
Not with the left but I never had any with them anyway so of course I could not care less
No it's just that you post a lot of wrong/biased information it seems. Your polling for Trump has been oddly one-sided and has certainly damaged your standing, IMHO.
Keep posting your thoughts though, they're interesting and you're always good mannered unlike some other right wingers on here.
I would caution against using "the Left" as one homogenous entity, we have different views and thoughts, just as you do on the right.
For example I'm in full support of remaining part of NATO and keeping the nuclear deterrent.
We will see on election night, if Trump is narrowly re elected in the EC even if Biden wins the popular vote due to shy Trump's again, especially in the MidWest, there will be some on here with egg on their face but I will not be amongst them.
Of course Biden could win, all I am doing is offering a counter view to the certainty of a Biden landslide many on here seem to hold, I am not even a Trump supporter like say Mr Ed
I'm purposefully not taking a side as I don't know what the outcome will be but I do think you tend to post polls that show Trump doing well, as opposed to others. That's just my perception and perhaps I'm wrong.
I just noticed you don't do the same for UK polls, you seem to post them all.
Situation in London - no one gives a fuck about tier 2, everyone just thinks that pubs and restaurants are being scapegoated for poor planning by the government. No support for the two week circuit breaker, no support for tier 2 or 3 and everyone wants to get rid of the 10pm closing time.
What was interesting was the unanimous thinking on the circuit breaker, "changes nothing" and "back to where we are now a few days after its ends". In a lovely piece of solidarity with the North there was also support for Andy Burnham against the government, the actual northerner was fuming at how badly the North is being treated.
Obviously this is a self selected group of people happy to break the rules in the first place so it's not going to be representative, however, I've not met an irl person who supports the two week circuit breaker or if they do it's usually "only if it's definitely just two weeks, they should make that the law".
There was real fear that if the country goes back into lockdown we won't come back out even if there's a vaccine. Worries that now they have all of this control over how people live the politicians won't want to give it up and will use other health "emergencies" or climate "emergency" to keep many of the measures in place.
Yes i think this is an important point. That's the only circumstances i can see anyone i know supporting it.
I am however fully aware that there is a hidden body of opinion who think we should reinstate March lockdown for as long as it takes.
Another key strand of opinion (which is often quite tricky to read) is people getting very worked up about "idiots" not wearing masks (properly) or basically ignoring social distancing etc. When you dig deeper this annoyance is often (not always by any means) not based upon the health impacts of non-compliance, but more a feeling that it might lead to increased case numbers and triggering additional restrictions. It is the increased restrictions that many people fear, not the virus. There is a lot of suspicion of the presentation of numbers/statistics.
He has more faces than the town clock , it will be announced soon and he will swear blind he never said "no".
Gove is, I understand, a Scot. When you get independence, Malc, will you take him back, please.
imho one of the main reasons Gove has started to be very anti-No Deal Brexit is that he knows a chaotic mess in the New Year will add the final lick of paint to an already almost guaranteed vote Yes for Scottish independence. He has no chance, as a scot, of becoming PM if that happens.
Gove is almost through the ethnicity reassignment process, just some surgery to rectify his annoying, wee, Scotch face and he'll be done.
He has more faces than the town clock , it will be announced soon and he will swear blind he never said "no".
Gove is, I understand, a Scot. When you get independence, Malc, will you take him back, please.
imho one of the main reasons Gove has started to be very anti-No Deal Brexit is that he knows a chaotic mess in the New Year will add the final lick of paint to an already almost guaranteed vote Yes for Scottish independence. He has no chance, as a scot, of becoming PM if that happens.
The one benefit of him having been brought up in Scotland.
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
Imagine describing Epping as "rural Essex". It has a bloody tube station.
So what, it also has plenty of farmers and is surrounded by forest and fields and countryside, it is the end of the line.
You also get train commuters to Leeds and York in rural North Yorkshire you know
I’m sorry but to describe Epping as “rural” in the same sense as towns and villages in the North that have almost no transport links to their nearest cities just shows how little understanding of the country outside of Essex you have.
Epping is just a posh suburb of London. It has a tube station on the CENTRAL line and is just off the M25, the busiest motorway in the country. It’s laughable.
I really think people overplay the north south divide. Electorally there isn't that much evidence of anti-southness being a huge factor, when the big two are both big in the south (Labour pretty much in London, technically), and it feels like a self fulfilling prophecy where the true fact of not enough attention being paid to the north - something that's gone on for a long long time and which politicians always promise to address - gets conflated into some seething extreme position.
Indeed. But this very thing was what happened in Scotland. Drip, drip, drip. Each by themselves seemingly insignificant and effecting no discernible change. Then the dam suddenly burst.
A depressing thought indeed, but, and I accept this is itself short on evidence, I get the impression the sudden burst of breathless 'divided nation' headlines and articles is classic political and media overreaction to a novel situation, a hook to give the story interest which, no doubt, many people are buying. There's nothing unusual in our highly centralised state for things to be dictated from Whitehall, not always very well either, and I don't see how current events which are driven by a genuine and defendable need for a regional reaction actually have anything to do with the wider systemic issues of lack of sufficient engagement or investment in the North.
Tying the historic issues in with the Covid stuff just looks dumb to me.
Thanks for that. You may be right. However, I would contend (equally evidence free) that there is a straight line through the Brexit vote, Corbyn 40% in 2017 and Red Wall 2019. All votes against the status quo. And it isn't to do with culture, dislike of foreigners or even the economy. In the 80s the government ignored the North cos we didn't vote for them. 1997 onwards they ignored us cos we did. Then our services were cut to ribbons cos bankers crashed the economy. Thus the wildly oscillating political voting of "The left behind." It hasn't diminished.
I really think people overplay the north south divide. Electorally there isn't that much evidence of anti-southness being a huge factor, when the big two are both big in the south (Labour pretty much in London, technically), and it feels like a self fulfilling prophecy where the true fact of not enough attention being paid to the north - something that's gone on for a long long time and which politicians always promise to address - gets conflated into some seething extreme position.
Indeed. But this very thing was what happened in Scotland. Drip, drip, drip. Each by themselves seemingly insignificant and effecting no discernible change. Then the dam suddenly burst.
A depressing thought indeed, but, and I accept this is itself short on evidence, I get the impression the sudden burst of breathless 'divided nation' headlines and articles is classic political and media overreaction to a novel situation, a hook to give the story interest which, no doubt, many people are buying. There's nothing unusual in our highly centralised state for things to be dictated from Whitehall, not always very well either, and I don't see how current events which are driven by a genuine and defendable need for a regional reaction actually have anything to do with the wider systemic issues of lack of sufficient engagement or investment in the North.
Tying the historic issues in with the Covid stuff just looks dumb to me.
Thanks for that. You may be right. However, I would contend (equally evidence free) that there is a straight line through the Brexit vote, Corbyn 40% in 2017 and Red Wall 2019. All votes against the status quo. And it isn't to do with culture, dislike of foreigners or even the economy. In the 80s the government ignored the North cos we didn't vote for them. 1997 onwards they ignored us cos we did. Then our services were cut to ribbons cos bankers crashed the economy. Thus the wildly oscillating political voting of "The left behind." It hasn't diminished.
I would agree there is something in the 'left behind' feeling which has been harnassed at various electoral events. Potentially that could be utilised by some regional breakdown narrative. However I would contend that, for the moment, the excited commentariat, and politicians looking for an angle, are looking for divisions even when regional disparity is justified.
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
Imagine describing Epping as "rural Essex". It has a bloody tube station.
Does HYUFD have any credibility left?
Not with the left but I never had any with them anyway so of course I could not care less
No it's just that you post a lot of wrong/biased information it seems. Your polling for Trump has been oddly one-sided and has certainly damaged your standing, IMHO.
Keep posting your thoughts though, they're interesting and you're always good mannered unlike some other right wingers on here.
I would caution against using "the Left" as one homogenous entity, we have different views and thoughts, just as you do on the right.
For example I'm in full support of remaining part of NATO and keeping the nuclear deterrent.
We will see on election night, if Trump is narrowly re elected in the EC even if Biden wins the popular vote due to shy Trumps again, especially in the MidWest, there will be some on here with egg on their face but I will not be amongst them.
Of course Biden could win, all I am doing is offering a counter view to the certainty of a Biden landslide many on here seem to hold, I am not even a Trump supporter like say Mr Ed
This is fine. So long as you accept some egg if it is an easy Biden win.
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
I'm looking for the post where he had the temerity to call you weird. I want to give it a 'like'
I've missed you Wodger.
The "like" button is the worst feature of the new version of this site. It looks like there's nothing that can be done about it but I think it's lowered the quality of the discussion on here.
It encourages each side to play to their own galleries to get the most "likes" - in other words, it plays to sentimentality rather than rationality and introduces narcissism into the equation.
The very best posts on this site get just 1-3 likes rather than 5-8 likes.
In the old days you'd get people like @Jonathan and @SouthamObserver sometimes replying to arguments of mine saying "excellent post", which is all the praise I'd ever want or need. I'd do the same for some of theirs, we all learnt something and had a really interesting exchange of views.
I really miss that.
I find your premise to be a bit short on evidence and a little strange. The most 'liked' posts are almost certainly going to be ones which are jokes, and most people don't use the feature at all so the idea it has enouraged a deterioration of debate quality I think is perception more than reality.
Absolutely. The most liked comment on this thread by a considerable distance is @Mexicanpete's "Its life gym, but not as we know it."
I also use likes as a means of thanks where there is an enlightening link or as an acknowledgement when someone has replied to me but I don't have anything else to say about the particular topic because we are in agreement. I think they are useful and don't check my total likes more than 20 times a day, ever.
Pathetic attempt to piggyback on mexicanpete's success by repeating his post in your own, for shame.
Its not even as if he ever showed any loyalty to Boris.
Zac Goldsmith's was worse. Absolutely waving two fingers at the electorate.
True.
But there's been plenty of similar cases in the past.
Plenty of ex MPs losing seats and ending up in the Lords, sure. But fast-tracked into the Lords so you can continue as a Minister? That, I think, (though I'd love to learn differently) is new.
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You mean tier 1. Tier 3 is the highest level. Think of it like a multi storey car park.
Yes Tier 1 sorry but the point remains vast areas of the North, particularly rural Cumbria and North Yorkshire have had no extra restrictions at all and are still only in the medium tier whereas highly populated parts of the South like Essex and Elmbridge and of course London are now in the high Tier 2
The population of these "vast areas of the North" are tiny. All the major population centres are in at least Tier 2 now.
No, Hull for example is still only in tier 1
Okay? Hull & Carlisle. Brilliant.
The point remains that you look like a pillock.
Oh no that is quite clearly you, given Hull has a population of 261,149
So Hull's population, less than 2% of the population of the North, is in Tier 1.
The fact is that all the major population centres in the North, with the exception of Hull (lol), are now in at least Tier 2.
I live in Epping, population 11, 461.
We are hardly a major population centre but still in Tier 2, if we were a market town in Cumbria or North Yorkshire we would likely still only be in Tier 1
Your original point was that "vast areas of the North are in Tier 1" which is just downright misleading. I was merely highlighting that fact.
Nope, it was not misleading, Cumbria and North Yorkshire are 'vast areas of the North' as any map would show you and Hull is also a major population centre, over 20 times the size of Epping and Hull is in Tier 1 while we are in Tier 2
It was misleading, and now I've corrected you. So I'm glad we've settled that one.
Epping is just a London suburb anyway.
No it was not misleading and no Epping is not a London suburb like say Chingford or Woodford, it is a market town in the Essex County Council area not the Greater London Authority that just happens to have the last tube stop on the central line that is all
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
I'm looking for the post where he had the temerity to call you weird. I want to give it a 'like'
I've missed you Wodger.
The "like" button is the worst feature of the new version of this site. It looks like there's nothing that can be done about it but I think it's lowered the quality of the discussion on here.
It encourages each side to play to their own galleries to get the most "likes" - in other words, it plays to sentimentality rather than rationality and introduces narcissism into the equation.
The very best posts on this site get just 1-3 likes rather than 5-8 likes.
In the old days you'd get people like @Jonathan and @SouthamObserver sometimes replying to arguments of mine saying "excellent post", which is all the praise I'd ever want or need. I'd do the same for some of theirs, we all learnt something and had a really interesting exchange of views.
I really miss that.
I find your premise to be a bit short on evidence and a little strange. The most 'liked' posts are almost certainly going to be ones which are jokes, and most people don't use the feature at all so the idea it has enouraged a deterioration of debate quality I think is perception more than reality.
Absolutely. The most liked comment on this thread by a considerable distance is @Mexicanpete's "Its life gym, but not as we know it."
I also use likes as a means of thanks where there is an enlightening link or as an acknowledgement when someone has replied to me but I don't have anything else to say about the particular topic because we are in agreement. I think they are useful and don't check my total likes more than 20 times a day, ever.
Most heartening for me is that my best ever likes totals were in response to posts in regards of replies to well wishes regarding my wife when she was ill.
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
I'm looking for the post where he had the temerity to call you weird. I want to give it a 'like'
I've missed you Wodger.
The "like" button is the worst feature of the new version of this site. It looks like there's nothing that can be done about it but I think it's lowered the quality of the discussion on here.
It encourages each side to play to their own galleries to get the most "likes" - in other words, it plays to sentimentality rather than rationality and introduces narcissism into the equation.
The very best posts on this site get just 1-3 likes rather than 5-8 likes.
In the old days you'd get people like @Jonathan and @SouthamObserver sometimes replying to arguments of mine saying "excellent post", which is all the praise I'd ever want or need. I'd do the same for some of theirs, we all learnt something and had a really interesting exchange of views.
I really miss that.
I find your premise to be a bit short on evidence and a little strange. The most 'liked' posts are almost certainly going to be ones which are jokes, and most people don't use the feature at all so the idea it has enouraged a deterioration of debate quality I think is perception more than reality.
Absolutely. The most liked comment on this thread by a considerable distance is @Mexicanpete's "Its life gym, but not as we know it."
I also use likes as a means of thanks where there is an enlightening link or as an acknowledgement when someone has replied to me but I don't have anything else to say about the particular topic because we are in agreement. I think they are useful and don't check my total likes more than 20 times a day, ever.
Pathetic attempt to piggyback on mexicanpete's success by repeating his post in your own, for shame.
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
Imagine describing Epping as "rural Essex". It has a bloody tube station.
So what, it also has plenty of farmers and is surrounded by forest and fields and countryside, it is the end of the line.
You also get train commuters to Leeds and York in rural North Yorkshire you know
I’m sorry but to describe Epping as “rural” in the same sense as towns and villages in the North that have almost no transport links to their nearest cities just shows how little understanding of the country outside of Essex you have.
Epping is just a posh suburb of London. It has a tube station on the CENTRAL line and is just off the M25, the busiest motorway in the country. It’s laughable.
Essex is a largely rural county certainly in the north and given you live in suburban Newcastle you can hardly lecture on what constitutes a rural area
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
Trust you're feeling more positive yourself this morning, Mr P.
This post IS positive. I'm moving to Scotland remember to escape the madness of Shagger's England
He has more faces than the town clock , it will be announced soon and he will swear blind he never said "no".
Gove is, I understand, a Scot. When you get independence, Malc, will you take him back, please.
imho one of the main reasons Gove has started to be very anti-No Deal Brexit is that he knows a chaotic mess in the New Year will add the final lick of paint to an already almost guaranteed vote Yes for Scottish independence. He has no chance, as a scot, of becoming PM if that happens.
Gove is almost through the ethnicity reassignment process, just some surgery to rectify his annoying, wee, Scotch face and he'll be done.
"After many years in which the world has afforded me many experiences, what I know most surely in the long run about morality and obligations, I owe to football." Albert Camus
The number of countries who have to try to cope without a proper cricket team to teach them the meaning of life is indeed a tragedy.
Can we expect a 'Why Trump? Not enough cricket' piece from you?
I read quite a good novel (the title escapes me) a few years ago about an attempt to introduce cricket to the USA. It all dissolved into criminality, almost needless to say.
Also described in one of the most entertaining ‘View From the Boundary’ episodes I’ve heard, with the late great Christopher Lee: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08fy5zx
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
Trust you're feeling more positive yourself this morning, Mr P.
This post IS positive. I'm moving to Scotland remember to escape the madness of Shagger's England
Very welcome you are too RP, I hope it is a successful move for you and your family.
Of course Biden could win, all I am doing is offering a counter view to the certainty of a Biden landslide many on here seem to hold, I am not even a Trump supporter like say Mr Ed
Can you give an example of someone who's been saying a Biden landslide is a certainty?
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
Imagine describing Epping as "rural Essex". It has a bloody tube station.
So what, it also has plenty of farmers and is surrounded by forest and fields and countryside, it is the end of the line.
You also get train commuters to Leeds and York in rural North Yorkshire you know
I’m sorry but to describe Epping as “rural” in the same sense as towns and villages in the North that have almost no transport links to their nearest cities just shows how little understanding of the country outside of Essex you have.
Epping is just a posh suburb of London. It has a tube station on the CENTRAL line and is just off the M25, the busiest motorway in the country. It’s laughable.
Essex is a largely rural county certainly in the north and given you live in suburban Newcastle you can hardly lecture on what constitutes a rural area
Neither can you, as you live in suburban London.
I can see plenty of farmers fields from my house. Doesn’t make where I live rural.
Its not even as if he ever showed any loyalty to Boris.
Zac Goldsmith's was worse. Absolutely waving two fingers at the electorate.
True.
But there's been plenty of similar cases in the past.
Plenty of ex MPs losing seats and ending up in the Lords, sure. But fast-tracked into the Lords so you can continue as a Minister? That, I think, (though I'd love to learn differently) is new.
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You mean tier 1. Tier 3 is the highest level. Think of it like a multi storey car park.
Yes Tier 1 sorry but the point remains vast areas of the North, particularly rural Cumbria and North Yorkshire have had no extra restrictions at all and are still only in the medium tier whereas highly populated parts of the South like Essex and Elmbridge and of course London are now in the high Tier 2
The population of these "vast areas of the North" are tiny. All the major population centres are in at least Tier 2 now.
No, Hull for example is still only in tier 1
Okay? Hull & Carlisle. Brilliant.
The point remains that you look like a pillock.
Oh no that is quite clearly you, given Hull has a population of 261,149
So Hull's population, less than 2% of the population of the North, is in Tier 1.
The fact is that all the major population centres in the North, with the exception of Hull (lol), are now in at least Tier 2.
I live in Epping, population 11, 461.
We are hardly a major population centre but still in Tier 2, if we were a market town in Cumbria or North Yorkshire we would likely still only be in Tier 1
Small market towns in West Yorkshire are also in Tier 2 because of where the borough boundaries lie.
Otley and Ilkley are Tier 2. Meanwhile Skipton, Ripon, Harrogate and Knaresborough are Tier 1.
It isn't to do with the size of the town, it depends on council boundaries.
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester. Indeed rural Scotland has more in common culturally and politically with rural Essex than it does with Glasgow as shown by its strong No vote in 2014 and the number of Tory MPs rural Scotland elected in 2017 and 2019 and the entirety of Antrim is still DUP.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
That you genuinely believe in your supreme arrogance to speak of places you know nothing about is why what I posted is true.
Its not even as if he ever showed any loyalty to Boris.
Zac Goldsmith's was worse. Absolutely waving two fingers at the electorate.
True.
But there's been plenty of similar cases in the past.
Plenty of ex MPs losing seats and ending up in the Lords, sure. But fast-tracked into the Lords so you can continue as a Minister? That, I think, (though I'd love to learn differently) is new.
Lynda Chalker in 1992.
Well you learn something new every day. Doesn't make it right.
Situation in London - no one gives a fuck about tier 2, everyone just thinks that pubs and restaurants are being scapegoated for poor planning by the government. No support for the two week circuit breaker, no support for tier 2 or 3 and everyone wants to get rid of the 10pm closing time.
What was interesting was the unanimous thinking on the circuit breaker, "changes nothing" and "back to where we are now a few days after its ends". In a lovely piece of solidarity with the North there was also support for Andy Burnham against the government, the actual northerner was fuming at how badly the North is being treated.
Obviously this is a self selected group of people happy to break the rules in the first place so it's not going to be representative, however, I've not met an irl person who supports the two week circuit breaker or if they do it's usually "only if it's definitely just two weeks, they should make that the law".
There was real fear that if the country goes back into lockdown we won't come back out even if there's a vaccine. Worries that now they have all of this control over how people live the politicians won't want to give it up and will use other health "emergencies" or climate "emergency" to keep many of the measures in place.
Yes i think this is an important point. That's the only circumstances i can see anyone i know supporting it.
I am however fully aware that there is a hidden body of opinion who think we should reinstate March lockdown for as long as it takes.
Another key strand of opinion (which is often quite tricky to read) is people getting very worked up about "idiots" not wearing masks (properly) or basically ignoring social distancing etc. When you dig deeper this annoyance is often (not always by any means) not based upon the health impacts of non-compliance, but more a feeling that it might lead to increased case numbers and triggering additional restrictions. It is the increased restrictions that many people fear, not the virus. There is a lot of suspicion of the presentation of numbers/statistics.
Yes, I got a sense of that yesterday too, mask wearing should be done to stop the spread so we don't have to go back to lockdown, rather than the actual effects of the virus. The threat of a second national lockdown is definitely a much more powerful motivator for people than people dying IMO, at least from speaking to real people.
Agree on the suspicion of the data, the change in how they record deaths and the Excel fuck up has damaged confidence in the government's ability to convince people with the data. All of them were surprised when I showed them the R graph that @Malmesbury plotted with my formula, they all thought that the R was going up and out of control. They also said that the government had done a horrible job of communicating what everything actually means and that maybe they'd caused the confusion on purpose so people weren't confident in going out.
If it was "too large" why the feck are people like Jo Johnson, Claire Fox or Lebedev there?
When people cannot even come up with a plausible excuse, it is a bad sign (like when politicians fall back on the 'I'm stupid' defence for some problem).
The argument seems to be that he deserves an undeserved peerage to compensate for the loss of a former undeserved peerage. Hard to get excited about, and his record over dealing with sex abuse by clergy is iffy.
He has more faces than the town clock , it will be announced soon and he will swear blind he never said "no".
Gove is, I understand, a Scot. When you get independence, Malc, will you take him back, please.
imho one of the main reasons Gove has started to be very anti-No Deal Brexit is that he knows a chaotic mess in the New Year will add the final lick of paint to an already almost guaranteed vote Yes for Scottish independence. He has no chance, as a scot, of becoming PM if that happens.
Gove is almost through the ethnicity reassignment process, just some surgery to rectify his annoying, wee, Scotch face and he'll be done.
Given the amount of egg shortly to be all over his face, Scotch face sounds appropriate actually.
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester. Indeed rural Scotland has more in common culturally and politically with rural Essex than it does with Glasgow as shown by its strong No vote in 2014 and the number of Tory MPs rural Scotland elected in 2017 and 2019 and the entirety of Antrim is still DUP.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
That you genuinely believe in your supreme arrogance to speak of places you know nothing about is why what I posted is true.
you know nothing Jon Snow HYUFD
I’m glad to note that didn’t end with the traditional gasp...
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester. Indeed rural Scotland has more in common culturally and politically with rural Essex than it does with Glasgow as shown by its strong No vote in 2014 and the number of Tory MPs rural Scotland elected in 2017 and 2019 and the entirety of Antrim is still DUP.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
Careful now; don't go over the top! I've lived in both suburban and rural Essex, and urban and suburban Lancashire and I've got quite a few friends and relations in the North. My experience suggests you're wrong about commonality between rural Essex and rural Yorkshire and Lancashire; they might elect MP's under the same manifesto, but they're often very different.
If Trump wins it won't be because Trafalgar have an infallible polling method, but for many other reasons: possible late damaging gaffe/revelation from Biden, relief at possible late announcement of a vaccine, malfeasance in the election process, Trump's enduring edge on the economy prevailing over other issues, etc.
Those are reasons why I am worried that Biden may not win. Not absurd polls from Trafalgar.
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
What a load of rubbish, for starters rural Lancashire and rural Yorkshire has far more in common with rural Essex than it does with Greater London or Greater Manchester. Indeed rural Scotland has more in common culturally and politically with rural Essex than it does with Glasgow as shown by its strong No vote in 2014 and the number of Tory MPs rural Scotland elected in 2017 and 2019 and the entirety of Antrim is still DUP.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
Careful now; don't go over the top! I've lived in both suburban and rural Essex, and urban and suburban Lancashire and I've got quite a few friends and relations in the North. My experience suggests you're wrong
He has more faces than the town clock , it will be announced soon and he will swear blind he never said "no".
Gove is, I understand, a Scot. When you get independence, Malc, will you take him back, please.
imho one of the main reasons Gove has started to be very anti-No Deal Brexit is that he knows a chaotic mess in the New Year will add the final lick of paint to an already almost guaranteed vote Yes for Scottish independence. He has no chance, as a scot, of becoming PM if that happens.
I think Goves chance of becoming PM are not affected by being Scottish, even post Sindy.
They are however adversely affected by him being a fish faced gossipy nincompoop.
If Trump wins it won't be because Trafalgar have an infallible polling method, but for many other reasons: possible late damaging gaffe/revelation from Biden...
Biden's previous claim to fame was plagiarising Neil Kinnock, so if he books a rally in Sheffield, Alabama, it's time to worry.
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You mean tier 1. Tier 3 is the highest level. Think of it like a multi storey car park.
Yes Tier 1 sorry but the point remains vast areas of the North, particularly rural Cumbria and North Yorkshire have had no extra restrictions at all and are still only in the medium tier whereas highly populated parts of the South like Essex and Elmbridge and of course London are now in the high Tier 2
The population of these "vast areas of the North" are tiny. All the major population centres are in at least Tier 2 now.
No, Hull for example is still only in tier 1
Okay? Hull & Carlisle. Brilliant.
The point remains that you look like a pillock.
Oh no that is quite clearly you, given Hull has a population of 261,149
So Hull's population, less than 2% of the population of the North, is in Tier 1.
The fact is that all the major population centres in the North, with the exception of Hull (lol), are now in at least Tier 2.
I live in Epping, population 11, 461.
We are hardly a major population centre but still in Tier 2, if we were a market town in Cumbria or North Yorkshire we would likely still only be in Tier 1
Your original point was that "vast areas of the North are in Tier 1" which is just downright misleading. I was merely highlighting that fact.
Nope, it was not misleading, Cumbria and North Yorkshire are 'vast areas of the North' as any map would show you and Hull is also a major population centre, over 20 times the size of Epping and Hull is in Tier 1 while we are in Tier 2
It was misleading, and now I've corrected you. So I'm glad we've settled that one.
Epping is just a London suburb anyway.
No it was not misleading and no Epping is not a London suburb like say Chingford or Woodford, it is a market town in the Essex County Council area not the Greater London Authority that just happens to have the last tube stop on the central line that is all
Yes. You've got there. In Essex County Council area. Just like we are in Bradford council area. That's what counts. Not the size of the settlement.
I could rattle off a list of villages in Yorkshire and the North East that are now Tier 2, but there isn't much point. I'll just mention one - Pity Me.
Situation in London - no one gives a fuck about tier 2, everyone just thinks that pubs and restaurants are being scapegoated for poor planning by the government. No support for the two week circuit breaker, no support for tier 2 or 3 and everyone wants to get rid of the 10pm closing time.
What was interesting was the unanimous thinking on the circuit breaker, "changes nothing" and "back to where we are now a few days after its ends". In a lovely piece of solidarity with the North there was also support for Andy Burnham against the government, the actual northerner was fuming at how badly the North is being treated.
Obviously this is a self selected group of people happy to break the rules in the first place so it's not going to be representative, however, I've not met an irl person who supports the two week circuit breaker or if they do it's usually "only if it's definitely just two weeks, they should make that the law".
There was real fear that if the country goes back into lockdown we won't come back out even if there's a vaccine. Worries that now they have all of this control over how people live the politicians won't want to give it up and will use other health "emergencies" or climate "emergency" to keep many of the measures in place.
Yes i think this is an important point. That's the only circumstances i can see anyone i know supporting it.
I am however fully aware that there is a hidden body of opinion who think we should reinstate March lockdown for as long as it takes.
Another key strand of opinion (which is often quite tricky to read) is people getting very worked up about "idiots" not wearing masks (properly) or basically ignoring social distancing etc. When you dig deeper this annoyance is often (not always by any means) not based upon the health impacts of non-compliance, but more a feeling that it might lead to increased case numbers and triggering additional restrictions. It is the increased restrictions that many people fear, not the virus. There is a lot of suspicion of the presentation of numbers/statistics.
Yes, I got a sense of that yesterday too, mask wearing should be done to stop the spread so we don't have to go back to lockdown, rather than the actual effects of the virus. The threat of a second national lockdown is definitely a much more powerful motivator for people than people dying IMO, at least from speaking to real people.
Agree on the suspicion of the data, the change in how they record deaths and the Excel fuck up has damaged confidence in the government's ability to convince people with the data. All of them were surprised when I showed them the R graph that @Malmesbury plotted with my formula, they all thought that the R was going up and out of control. They also said that the government had done a horrible job of communicating what everything actually means and that maybe they'd caused the confusion on purpose so people weren't confident in going out.
Th ironic joke is that in the Cummings (of all people) is right on the systemic use of data in government.
It is hoarded by various little fiefdoms. Only data that supports the policies of the department (or sub-department) is freely released.
The comment he made on the Cabinet Room being *less* useful for presentation of data than before WWI* was correct. And this is the deliberate policy of the system of government.
Ministers are presented with data that shows the departmental policy. They then go off and get information from outside**. This in turns renders them liable to picking up all kinds of bad data.
Control the data and you control the policy.
Have you ever noticed how guests on TV programs are never allowed to bring presentations? The presenters can have flashy graphics etc. The interviewee is only allowed words. Its about controlling the situation - allow one graph and they might "take back control"....
*The fireplace has been blocked off, preventing it's use for destruction of confidential documents. So everything has to be carried out to be shredded. **I have been told of instances where officials refused to provide specific information to a minister - One was percentage outcomes of a pilot study. The pilot study was against departmental policy. The results were good - which was "wrong".
If it was "too large" why the feck are people like Jo Johnson, Claire Fox or Lebedev there?
When people cannot even come up with a plausible excuse, it is a bad sign (like when politicians fall back on the 'I'm stupid' defence for some problem).
The argument seems to be that he deserves an undeserved peerage to compensate for the loss of a former undeserved peerage. Hard to get excited about, and his record over dealing with sex abuse by clergy is iffy.
I'm unconcerned whether he has one or not, but as their stated reason for not giving him one is a nonsense, it immediately raises questions about what the actual reason is.
That one illustrates a point I have been trying to make - we are back to the 2010-2015 era of major party consensus on the days big issue, and while they squabble over minor differences in opinion (exaggerated in order to give their fans something to distinguish themselves from) a significant minority, or maybe even a small minority, of the public are almost totally unrepresented in parliament
If it was "too large" why the feck are people like Jo Johnson, Claire Fox or Lebedev there?
When people cannot even come up with a plausible excuse, it is a bad sign (like when politicians fall back on the 'I'm stupid' defence for some problem).
The argument seems to be that he deserves an undeserved peerage to compensate for the loss of a former undeserved peerage. Hard to get excited about, and his record over dealing with sex abuse by clergy is iffy.
I'm unconcerned whether he has one or not, but as their reason for not giving him one is a nonsense, it immediately raises questions about what the actual reason is.
Exactly right - and I was shouted down for saying the same.
I am sure it's not due to racism but the excuse they gave means I can totally see how people have got there.
He has more faces than the town clock , it will be announced soon and he will swear blind he never said "no".
Gove is, I understand, a Scot. When you get independence, Malc, will you take him back, please.
imho one of the main reasons Gove has started to be very anti-No Deal Brexit is that he knows a chaotic mess in the New Year will add the final lick of paint to an already almost guaranteed vote Yes for Scottish independence. He has no chance, as a scot, of becoming PM if that happens.
I think Goves chance of becoming PM are not affected by being Scottish, even post Sindy.
They are however adversely affected by him being a fish faced gossipy nincompoop.
It's a while since I read Powell's Dance To The Music Of Time books, but there's a real whiff of Widmerpool off Govey.
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
Trust you're feeling more positive yourself this morning, Mr P.
This post IS positive. I'm moving to Scotland remember to escape the madness of Shagger's England
Very welcome you are too RP, I hope it is a successful move for you and your family.
With Mrs RP, my brother and sister-in-law that's 4 English migrant Yes votes to add to the tally.
Comments
Epping is just a London suburb anyway.
Don't be mad just because your angry outbursts about how much the EU flag upsets you get no likes. 🇪🇺
Given that covid is concentrated in the cities other areas don't want to be restricted because of it.
Fox, on the other hand, is an absurd appointment.
Then the dam suddenly burst.
Though of course if London and the South East was an independent nation it would be one of the wealthiest nations per head not only in Europe but the world so it is not as if the Home Counties have anything to lose but we are stronger together.
I am also sick to death of being told by the likes of you when rural Yorkshire is in tier 1 and we in rural Essex are in 2 tier and higher restrictions than you are we are giving a sneering dictat, absolutely outrageous and totally fact free!!!!
Get Dido in to run that as well
I also use likes as a means of thanks where there is an enlightening link or as an acknowledgement when someone has replied to me but I don't have anything else to say about the particular topic because we are in agreement. I think they are useful and don't check my total likes more than 20 times a day, ever.
What was interesting was the unanimous thinking on the circuit breaker, "changes nothing" and "back to where we are now a few days after its ends". In a lovely piece of solidarity with the North there was also support for Andy Burnham against the government, the actual northerner was fuming at how badly the North is being treated.
Obviously this is a self selected group of people happy to break the rules in the first place so it's not going to be representative, however, I've not met an irl person who supports the two week circuit breaker or if they do it's usually "only if it's definitely just two weeks, they should make that the law".
There was real fear that if the country goes back into lockdown we won't come back out even if there's a vaccine. Worries that now they have all of this control over how people live the politicians won't want to give it up and will use other health "emergencies" or climate "emergency" to keep many of the measures in place.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/oct/18/murderer-who-tackled-london-bridge-attacker-with-narwhal-tusk-pardoned
... Gallant, 42, will see the 17-year sentence he received in 2005 reduced by 10 months, and could apply for parole next June, the Mirror reported.
The Ministry of Justice said the Queen was advised to grant this pardon as a result of Gallant’s “exceptionally brave actions […] which helped save people’s lives despite the tremendous risk to his own”.
In an extraordinary turn of events, the family of firefighter Barrie Jackson, whom Gallant killed outside a pub in Hull, backed the decision to free the murderer early.
Jackson’s student son Jack, 21, said: “I have mixed emotions – but what happened at London Bridge goes to show the reality that people can change,” adding that he would not rule out meeting his father’s killer one day...
Tying the historic issues in with the Covid stuff just looks dumb to me.
I expect Robespierre to fall before the end of summer 2021.
You also get train commuters to Leeds and York in rural North Yorkshire you know
Nowadays those two places don’t feel all that different.
Keep posting your thoughts though, they're interesting and you're always good mannered unlike some other right wingers on here.
I would caution against using "the Left" as one homogenous entity, we have different views and thoughts, just as you do on the right.
For example I'm in full support of remaining part of NATO and keeping the nuclear deterrent.
But there's been plenty of similar cases in the past.
I think the most I ever received was musing on the difference between a pantry and a larder, and if one was post and the other not. (I'd say a larder is posh, for info).
Edit: Tell a lie, it was a joke about Cicero. Good times.
Of course Biden could win, all I am doing is offering a counter view to the certainty of a Biden landslide many on here seem to hold, I am not even a Trump supporter like say Mr Ed
I just noticed you don't do the same for UK polls, you seem to post them all.
I am however fully aware that there is a hidden body of opinion who think we should reinstate March lockdown for as long as it takes.
Another key strand of opinion (which is often quite tricky to read) is people getting very worked up about "idiots" not wearing masks (properly) or basically ignoring social distancing etc. When you dig deeper this annoyance is often (not always by any means) not based upon the health impacts of non-compliance, but more a feeling that it might lead to increased case numbers and triggering additional restrictions. It is the increased restrictions that many people fear, not the virus. There is a lot of suspicion of the presentation of numbers/statistics.
Epping is just a posh suburb of London. It has a tube station on the CENTRAL line and is just off the M25, the busiest motorway in the country. It’s laughable.
And it isn't to do with culture, dislike of foreigners or even the economy.
In the 80s the government ignored the North cos we didn't vote for them.
1997 onwards they ignored us cos we did.
Then our services were cut to ribbons cos bankers crashed the economy. Thus the wildly oscillating political voting of "The left behind."
It hasn't diminished.
But fast-tracked into the Lords so you can continue as a Minister? That, I think, (though I'd love to learn differently) is new.
The Hollywood cricket club was a long-standing and distinguished institution
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4V6bR2X86Z077q2JBVHZcp/the-story-behind-the-glamorous-hollywood-cricket-club
Also described in one of the most entertaining ‘View From the Boundary’ episodes I’ve heard, with the late great Christopher Lee:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08fy5zx
I can see plenty of farmers fields from my house. Doesn’t make where I live rural.
United Kingdom* population density: 280 per km^2
*Currently includes Epping Forest.
Otley and Ilkley are Tier 2. Meanwhile Skipton, Ripon, Harrogate and Knaresborough are Tier 1.
It isn't to do with the size of the town, it depends on council boundaries.
you know nothing
Jon SnowHYUFDDoesn't make it right.
The market sees no bad news for Trump. I swear to god they will be evens at the off.
Agree on the suspicion of the data, the change in how they record deaths and the Excel fuck up has damaged confidence in the government's ability to convince people with the data. All of them were surprised when I showed them the R graph that @Malmesbury plotted with my formula, they all thought that the R was going up and out of control. They also said that the government had done a horrible job of communicating what everything actually means and that maybe they'd caused the confusion on purpose so people weren't confident in going out.
So its more rural than Essex in general.
Like most countries the UK's population density is affected by how much of its area is 'empty' rather than rural.
https://twitter.com/kevverage/status/1317782477935607808?s=20
Those are reasons why I am worried that Biden may not win. Not absurd polls from Trafalgar.
They are however adversely affected by him being a fish faced gossipy nincompoop.
I could rattle off a list of villages in Yorkshire and the North East that are now Tier 2, but there isn't much point. I'll just mention one - Pity Me.
It is hoarded by various little fiefdoms. Only data that supports the policies of the department (or sub-department) is freely released.
The comment he made on the Cabinet Room being *less* useful for presentation of data than before WWI* was correct. And this is the deliberate policy of the system of government.
Ministers are presented with data that shows the departmental policy. They then go off and get information from outside**. This in turns renders them liable to picking up all kinds of bad data.
Control the data and you control the policy.
Have you ever noticed how guests on TV programs are never allowed to bring presentations? The presenters can have flashy graphics etc. The interviewee is only allowed words. Its about controlling the situation - allow one graph and they might "take back control"....
*The fireplace has been blocked off, preventing it's use for destruction of confidential documents. So everything has to be carried out to be shredded.
**I have been told of instances where officials refused to provide specific information to a minister - One was percentage outcomes of a pilot study. The pilot study was against departmental policy. The results were good - which was "wrong".
https://twitter.com/rupert_pearse/status/1317784668700397570?s=20
I am sure it's not due to racism but the excuse they gave means I can totally see how people have got there.