FWIW I’ve just completed a 12 km walk. It’s still possible for people to exercise in a way that it isn’t possible for football fans to watch their team play.
Most interests are minority. Communal exercise is life giving. Another minority but huge interest not getting any political airtime is communal singing, which is about sharing joy, and which is essentially impossible right now.
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
The Left, with a level of patronisation only they specialise in, think Sentamu should have been given a peerage because he's black.
I think he should be given a peerage because he's a retiring archbishop and has made an extraordinary contribution to public debate - which he will continue to do in the Lords - including speaking out sensibly for cultural conservatism when rather few of his colleagues in the Synod were doing so.
He's intelligent, rational, moderate and sensible - Boris should be bending over backwards to honour him appropriately.
I haven't heard anybody say that he should be given a peerage because he is black. I think there is a suspicion that the government would have given him one if he were white, which is a different point.
"After many years in which the world has afforded me many experiences, what I know most surely in the long run about morality and obligations, I owe to football." Albert Camus
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
This EU "Australia-style" arrangement being talked about for the UK.... I cant see how that would reflect the reality- Australian exports are dependent on China in ways that the UK could never be - is it because key UK voters think wealth, sunshine and warm feelings when Australia is mentioned, a bit like a security blanket, but wholly misleading?
No you are wrong. UK perceptions of how nice other countries are to live in has absolutely nothing to do with it. The Government has careful considered every other world country's trading relationship with the EU and concluded that Australia gives the best representation.
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You mean tier 1. Tier 3 is the highest level. Think of it like a multi storey car park.
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
Um, there's something in what you say . But I admit to weirdness, and you think you're normal. We are all weird in our own individual ways.
Rawnsley reports that Gove is basically absolutely shitting the bed over a No Deal crash out as he has been trying to implement the counter measures to contain the chaos, especially on foods and meds. He has presented Treasury with an "eye watering" bill of cost of a No Deal countermeasures and Sunak has gone white with fear. We are talking massive government debt on top of already massive covid debt.
There is now a "No to No Deal" group of Cabinet ministers.
Let's hope they prevail and stop Cummings lunacy.
It is inconceivable to me that they will countenance no deal in the current circumstances. If they do it will simply prove that the government is so inept, irresponsible and criminally negligent that even a harsh critic like me couldn't imagine it.
I think the solution at this stage is a provisional deal where detailed negotiations on state aid, fishing and governance are parked until next year. Not an extension. The Kent lorry park madness etc will still go ahead but the can is kicked on the most contentious bits.
"The discontent successfully exploited by the Conservatives during last year’s general election in areas like this didn’t vanish when the polls closed and it was certainly apparent this week.
“It’s been slowly brewing for decades,” says one official of the resentment that has erupted in the past few days, a sentiment by no means unique to Greater Manchester.
“Covid has really been the last straw.” "
There are plenty of southerners on here who do not realise that we are heading towards a very divided country.
Greater Manc population is almost the same as Wales with a much larger economy.
We are not far from an anti-south party doing very very very well around here,
Perhaps people do not see that because the same two parties as always continue to dominate as they have for 100 years. Sure, that doesn't mean they will continue to do so, but electorally where's the sign people are yearning for an anti-south party, or for one of the big ones to be more explicitly anti-south?
Brexit.
Definitely driven in part by resentment and anger from being left behind.
"Red Wall" also. A rejection of a deeply Londoncentric Labour which failed to heed the north. From which the Tories, (not their new found Northern Mps), but the Johnson/Cummings clique, appear to be drawing all the wrong lessons.
It is no different to the divide across many of the big Western nations now eg the ex industrial areas which voted for Trump or Le Pen v the wealthier knowledge economy areas which voted for Clinton or Macron, same as the divide between Brexit and Remain areas in the UK.
If the Tories really ignored the North they would also have conceded to the EU on state aid and prevented the UK government giving state aid to industry in the North, that is not something I would be too bothered about for a trade deal with the EU but it is something Northern Leave voters would be bothered about
"The discontent successfully exploited by the Conservatives during last year’s general election in areas like this didn’t vanish when the polls closed and it was certainly apparent this week.
“It’s been slowly brewing for decades,” says one official of the resentment that has erupted in the past few days, a sentiment by no means unique to Greater Manchester.
“Covid has really been the last straw.” "
There are plenty of southerners on here who do not realise that we are heading towards a very divided country.
Greater Manc population is almost the same as Wales with a much larger economy.
We are not far from an anti-south party doing very very very well around here,
Perhaps people do not see that because the same two parties as always continue to dominate as they have for 100 years. Sure, that doesn't mean they will continue to do so, but electorally where's the sign people are yearning for an anti-south party, or for one of the big ones to be more explicitly anti-south?
Brexit.
Definitely driven in part by resentment and anger from being left behind.
"Red Wall" also. A rejection of a deeply Londoncentric Labour which failed to heed the north. From which the Tories, (not their new found Northern Mps), but the Johnson/Cummings clique, appear to be drawing all the wrong lessons.
It is no different to the divide across many of the big Western nations now eg the ex industrial areas which voted for Trump or Le Pen v the wealthier knowledge economy areas which voted for Clinton or Macron, same as the divide between Brexit and Remain areas in the UK.
If the Tories really ignored the North they would also have conceded to the EU on state aid and prevented the UK government giving state aid to industry in the North, that is not something I would be too bothered about for a trade deal with the EU but it is something Northern Leave voters would be bothered about
This isn’t about state aid it’s about regional lockdowns. People don’t care about Brexit to the exclusion of all else. If Greater Manchester is seen to be treated less favourably than the south no amount of gratitude for Brexit is going to save them. Or do you imagine grateful Northern types in 2024 who’ve lost their jobs, (world famous) clubs and pubs saying “I’m jobless and have nothing to do for leisure but I’m voting Tory in gratitude for a clean break from the EU!”.
What's more, given the ages of Brexit voters, by 8 years after the referendum it's quite likely there'll be aggrieved young people who realise they haven't got the opportunities those a bit older had.
Surely there will be people 8 years older who, because they have grown older, now believe in Brexit
Usually belief in the tooth fairy, Father Christmas and Brexit fade with experience.
Actually from the evidence of the age breakdown from the Referendum onwards belief in the tooth fairy, Father Christmas and the EU fade with experience.
A lot depends on the correct answer to that question.
There's always been a tendency for people to shift rightwards as they get older, but that effect has become massive in recent years. Is that a blip, or can the Conservatives keep converting lots of people to their cause, as their core vote literally dies off?
Same with Brexit. The 1975 referendum is interesting from that point of view; it was the younger voters who were most anti-EEC. Crudely, the ones who experienced WW2 as stories, rather than something lived through. Makes sense, really. Those same baby boomers were the core Brexit demographic in 2016, including (I think) the extremely old being less keen on the idea than the less old. But the younger generations- the ones who have grown up with the EU as part of the furniture- simply aren't as bothered about the issues that animate Brexit.
So whilst the coming generations may become more Conservative and Brexitty as they age, it's not a given. And Father Time means that both causes have to run awfully fast to stand still.
Agreed on boomers vs their parents. My grandmother, who drove an ambulance during the blitz in Plymouth, voted Remain, I think her last vote before she died. She was also a total Tory so it was probably the only election where we voted the same way. She came from a solid working class background, left school at 16, and she and my grandfather worked hard and did OK for themselves. She thought that Brexit was lunacy. We didn't agree on much but she was extremely bright and dead right on Brexit.
The Boomers are the generation that have always been anti-Europe. I think they felt cheated by the decline in Empire and having missed out on the "excitement" of the War as portrayed by dozens and dozens of war movies telling heroic deeds of derring-do.
People who lived through the war or fought in it were pro-Europe. They had seen the senseless horrors and knew that safety and progress lay in togetherness and cooperation, not in building walls or shouting at your nearest neighbours.
In the meantime we have Covid which helps disguise the fact that the Great Brexit C*ck-up is approaching its dénoument ...
"After many years in which the world has afforded me many experiences, what I know most surely in the long run about morality and obligations, I owe to football." Albert Camus
The number of countries who have to try to cope without a proper cricket team to teach them the meaning of life is indeed a tragedy.
The Left, with a level of patronisation only they specialise in, think Sentamu should have been given a peerage because he's black.
I think he should be given a peerage because he's a retiring archbishop and has made an extraordinary contribution to public debate - which he will continue to do in the Lords - including speaking out sensibly for cultural conservatism when rather few of his colleagues in the Synod were doing so.
He's intelligent, rational, moderate and sensible - Boris should be bending over backwards to honour him appropriately.
I'm left, why does his skin colour matter? You're inventing a fake culture war again
"After many years in which the world has afforded me many experiences, what I know most surely in the long run about morality and obligations, I owe to football." Albert Camus
The number of countries who have to try to cope without a proper cricket team to teach them the meaning of life is indeed a tragedy.
The French are, or course, holders of the last Olympic Silver Medal awarded for cricket
This EU "Australia-style" arrangement being talked about for the UK.... I cant see how that would reflect the reality- Australian exports are dependent on China in ways that the UK could never be - is it because key UK voters think wealth, sunshine and warm feelings when Australia is mentioned, a bit like a security blanket, but wholly misleading?
No you are wrong. UK perceptions of how nice other countries are to live in has absolutely nothing to do with it. The Government has careful considered every other world country's trading relationship with the EU and concluded that Australia gives the best representation.
Good point. The country, and PB, seems disproportionately intereseted in pubs and football.
Our family uses gyms, especially the boys. And even me. Though mostly for the swimming pool. Of course, here I just have hills to walk in.
People feel that their concerns are being ignored because the government no longer has any coherent story to tell and because it feels that it is only bothered about those things which affect it and its friends. So lots of money for consultants run by Tories but nothing for everyone else.
This may be unfair but it risks very rapidly becoming the perception.
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
Um, there's something in what you say . But I admit to weirdness, and you think you're normal. We are all weird in our own individual ways.
If you mean we're all unique, then I'd agree with you.
I am a typical Shire Tory - and there are plenty like me, several on here - so I do think I have my finger on the pulse of a certain way of British thinking
Pre-pubescent eurocommunism is, shall we say, rather niche.
Rawnsley reports that Gove is basically absolutely shitting the bed over a No Deal crash out as he has been trying to implement the counter measures to contain the chaos, especially on foods and meds. He has presented Treasury with an "eye watering" bill of cost of a No Deal countermeasures and Sunak has gone white with fear. We are talking massive government debt on top of already massive covid debt.
There is now a "No to No Deal" group of Cabinet ministers.
Let's hope they prevail and stop Cummings lunacy.
Why the panic? I am assured by PB experts that no deal will work smoothly and therefore not cost money.
The Left, with a level of patronisation only they specialise in, think Sentamu should have been given a peerage because he's black.
I think he should be given a peerage because he's a retiring archbishop and has made an extraordinary contribution to public debate - which he will continue to do in the Lords - including speaking out sensibly for cultural conservatism when rather few of his colleagues in the Synod were doing so.
He's intelligent, rational, moderate and sensible - Boris should be bending over backwards to honour him appropriately.
I'm left, why does his skin colour matter? You're inventing a fake culture war again
Did you even read my post?
It's THE LEFT that are banging on about his skin colour. Not me. The whole point of my post is that I DON'T GIVE A SHIT.
Don't bother engaging with my posts if you're going to be deliberately disingenuous.
Responding to @IshmaelZ - The obsession with football, mostly by men, utterly baffles me. It is way beyond an interest and it starts early. I have seen 5 year old boys in tears because they are out with their mothers and missing whatever football match is on.
Is it genetic? Is there something programmed into the male brain to yell and scream as a ball gets kicked about?
[Edit: and to sit around for 2 or 3 hours before the match talking about it and then to sit around after the match talking about it even more. Why?]
It's an interesting question for a Sunday morning and here's what I reckon -
There is a pressure for men to like football and it's strong enough to compel compliance amongst all but the strongest minded. I'm sure there are female equivalents. High heels? Babies? So as in those cases lots of men do not particularly like football but they pretend they do. It's for 2 reasons, one positive, one not so much. The positive reason is so as to have a point of reference, an easy go-to for a lengthy but safe chat with other men. By safe, I mean not straying into sensitive areas of personal life. The less benign reason is fear. Fear not just of exclusion but of outright hostility and in extremis bodily harm. To illustrate with a quick true story. I was having a beer on my own in a bar in Vienna (where I then lived) and there were a couple of English blokes there, from Yorkshire, not really my type, bit laddy, but we got chatting like you do. All ok, albeit not a terrific conversation, until one of them lent forward and asked quite pointedly, "So, who d'you support?" I said, "How do you mean?" (because football had not yet been mentioned) and he sort of bridled and said, "Your team. Who's yer team?" Now normally I would have gone with it. Given an answer to suit. Probably "Sheffield Wednesday" I'd have picked in this case, or if I was feeling particularly warm and loose, "The Owls." But for some reason (I guess the bolshiness and dutch courage that comes from drink) I didn't do that this time. Instead I looked him right in the eye, stony faced, and said, "I don't have a team. I'm not that into football to be honest." The atmosphere darkened immediately. It was as if I had slapped his sister. Cue a stream of aggression, at first needling and faux bantery, then the sarcasm and contempt, and before too long the situation had become what could only be described as faintly menacing. Thankfully, I was able to extricate myself, but it wasn't a great experience and it would have never happened if I hadn't "dissed" the beautiful game.
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You mean tier 1. Tier 3 is the highest level. Think of it like a multi storey car park.
Yes Tier 1 sorry but the point remains vast areas of the North, particularly rural Cumbria and North Yorkshire have had no extra restrictions at all and are still only in the medium tier whereas highly populated parts of the South like Essex and Elmbridge and of course London are now in the high Tier 2
For Downing Street to claim that John Sentamu didn’t get a Peerage because the Lords was too large is an insult and a disgrace. They are stuffing the place with people who don’t deserve to stand in Sentamu’s shadow.
Peerage snub for top black bishop
I mean I doubt it is because he's black but you can hardly blame people for going there with piss poor excuses like these
The Left, with a level of patronisation only they specialise in, think Sentamu should have been given a peerage because he's black.
I think he should be given a peerage because he's a retiring archbishop and has made an extraordinary contribution to public debate - which he will continue to do in the Lords - including speaking out sensibly for cultural conservatism when rather few of his colleagues in the Synod were doing so.
He's intelligent, rational, moderate and sensible - Boris should be bending over backwards to honour him appropriately.
I haven't heard anybody say that he should be given a peerage because he is black. I think there is a suspicion that the government would have given him one if he were white, which is a different point.
Andrew Adonis upthread. Do keep up. As have plenty of others on Twitter today.
The rest of your post is a pathetic attempt at dogwhistling and insinuation.
Rawnsley reports that Gove is basically absolutely shitting the bed over a No Deal crash out as he has been trying to implement the counter measures to contain the chaos, especially on foods and meds. He has presented Treasury with an "eye watering" bill of cost of a No Deal countermeasures and Sunak has gone white with fear. We are talking massive government debt on top of already massive covid debt.
There is now a "No to No Deal" group of Cabinet ministers.
Let's hope they prevail and stop Cummings lunacy.
In the early days of the pox I was advised on here to stay away from the gym - at the time that was sage advice. Now? We all get temperature checked on the way in. And enter an environment when normal temperature people sanitise everything they touch repeatedly. I don't feel unsafe in the gym at all. Other gyms may not be as fastidious...
The Left, with a level of patronisation only they specialise in, think Sentamu should have been given a peerage because he's black.
I think he should be given a peerage because he's a retiring archbishop and has made an extraordinary contribution to public debate - which he will continue to do in the Lords - including speaking out sensibly for cultural conservatism when rather few of his colleagues in the Synod were doing so.
He's intelligent, rational, moderate and sensible - Boris should be bending over backwards to honour him appropriately.
I'm left, why does his skin colour matter? You're inventing a fake culture war again
Did you even read my post?
It's THE LEFT that are banging on about his skin colour. Not me. The whole point of my post is that I DON'T GIVE A SHIT.
Don't bother engaging with my posts if you're going to be deliberately disingenuous.
I have better things to do with my time.
No need to be rude to me, I only asked a question.
As somebody of the left, I haven't banged on about his skin colour at all, I note the Times have mentioned it, are they the Left now?
"The Left" is not a homogenous entity, you're doing exactly what you accuse people of doing when they bring identity politics into a debate. You're a hypocrite.
Responding to @IshmaelZ - The obsession with football, mostly by men, utterly baffles me. It is way beyond an interest and it starts early. I have seen 5 year old boys in tears because they are out with their mothers and missing whatever football match is on.
Is it genetic? Is there something programmed into the male brain to yell and scream as a ball gets kicked about?
[Edit: and to sit around for 2 or 3 hours before the match talking about it and then to sit around after the match talking about it even more. Why?]
I have no interest in football.
I'm not usual though.
I don’t think you’re unusual. I think you’re perhaps unusual on here, though. People who want to get on politics are likely to want to bet on sports.
I watch rugby and test matches.
My experience has been that when I bet on them I lose, though, which is why I've largely stopped.
Lolz. Nevada have released their "by party registration" figures for the first day of in person early voting. They don't have the totals for Clark or Washoe County in them!
This EU "Australia-style" arrangement being talked about for the UK.... I cant see how that would reflect the reality- Australian exports are dependent on China in ways that the UK could never be - is it because key UK voters think wealth, sunshine and warm feelings when Australia is mentioned, a bit like a security blanket, but wholly misleading?
No you are wrong. UK perceptions of how nice other countries are to live in has absolutely nothing to do with it. The Government has careful considered every other world country's trading relationship with the EU and concluded that Australia gives the best representation.
If Gove says no lockdown, it will be announced this week.
The Tories have made a complete and utter mess of Brexit.
This is the bit that I don't understand about the fanbois
They wanted BoZo in Downing Street, and he is there.
And he's shit.
The response to Covid has been criminal, Brexit is the shitshow we always knew it would be, the Lords appointments is unconscionable.
Kevin and Perry have fucked up every single item of Government they have touched.
This is not about left or right, or party, or tribe. When the folks in charge are this bad, at everything, surely at some point you have to think, "wait a minute, maybe he's not the messiah..."
"After many years in which the world has afforded me many experiences, what I know most surely in the long run about morality and obligations, I owe to football." Albert Camus
The number of countries who have to try to cope without a proper cricket team to teach them the meaning of life is indeed a tragedy.
The French are, or course, holders of the last Olympic Silver Medal awarded for cricket
And yet they still try to learn important stuff from football?
Rawnsley reports that Gove is basically absolutely shitting the bed over a No Deal crash out as he has been trying to implement the counter measures to contain the chaos, especially on foods and meds. He has presented Treasury with an "eye watering" bill of cost of a No Deal countermeasures and Sunak has gone white with fear. We are talking massive government debt on top of already massive covid debt.
There is now a "No to No Deal" group of Cabinet ministers.
Let's hope they prevail and stop Cummings lunacy.
In the early days of the pox I was advised on here to stay away from the gym - at the time that was sage advice. Now? We all get temperature checked on the way in. And enter an environment when normal temperature people sanitise everything they touch repeatedly. I don't feel unsafe in the gym at all. Other gyms may not be as fastidious...
It's not about what you touch, it's about what you breathe. Temperature checks are probably better than nothing, but there's potentially quite a long contagious period when your temperature is still normal.
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You mean tier 1. Tier 3 is the highest level. Think of it like a multi storey car park.
Yes Tier 1 sorry but the point remains vast areas of the North, particularly rural Cumbria and North Yorkshire have had no extra restrictions at all and are still only in the medium tier whereas highly populated parts of the South like Essex and Elmbridge and of course London are now in the high Tier 2
The population of these "vast areas of the North" are tiny. All the major population centres are in at least Tier 2 now.
Good point. The country, and PB, seems disproportionately intereseted in pubs and football.
Our family uses gyms, especially the boys. And even me. Though mostly for the swimming pool. Of course, here I just have hills to walk in.
People feel that their concerns are being ignored because the government no longer has any coherent story to tell and because it feels that it is only bothered about those things which affect it and its friends. So lots of money for consultants run by Tories but nothing for everyone else.
This may be unfair but it risks very rapidly becoming the perception.
I’ll stick up for the government here. I don’t know what it’s like in other countries, but I don’t think we do compromise very well in this country. It’s a big part of why Brexit happened, in my opinion.
Angela Rayner described 134 deaths from COVID as “grim”. As long as there is a significant portion of the political and media class thinking this way, the government will not have a clear plan, because they’ll too fearful of being described as callous.
If Gove says no lockdown, it will be announced this week.
The Tories have made a complete and utter mess of Brexit.
This is the bit that I don't understand about the fanbois
They wanted BoZo in Downing Street, and he is there.
And he's shit.
The response to Covid has been criminal, Brexit is the shitshow we always knew it would be, the Lords appointments is unconscionable.
Kevin and Perry have fucked up every single item of Government they have touched.
This is not about left or right, or party, or tribe. When the folks in charge are this bad, at everything, surely at some point you have to think, "wait a minute, maybe he's not the messiah..."
He’s just a very selfish, self entitled spoilt brat
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You mean tier 1. Tier 3 is the highest level. Think of it like a multi storey car park.
Yes Tier 1 sorry but the point remains vast areas of the North, particularly rural Cumbria and North Yorkshire have had no extra restrictions at all and are still only in the medium tier whereas highly populated parts of the South like Essex and Elmbridge and of course London are now in the high Tier 2
The population of these "vast areas of the North" are tiny. All the major population centres are in at least Tier 2 now.
The Left, with a level of patronisation only they specialise in, think Sentamu should have been given a peerage because he's black.
I think he should be given a peerage because he's a retiring archbishop and has made an extraordinary contribution to public debate - which he will continue to do in the Lords - including speaking out sensibly for cultural conservatism when rather few of his colleagues in the Synod were doing so.
He's intelligent, rational, moderate and sensible - Boris should be bending over backwards to honour him appropriately.
I'm left, why does his skin colour matter? You're inventing a fake culture war again
Did you even read my post?
It's THE LEFT that are banging on about his skin colour. Not me. The whole point of my post is that I DON'T GIVE A SHIT.
Don't bother engaging with my posts if you're going to be deliberately disingenuous.
I have better things to do with my time.
No need to be rude to me, I only asked a question.
As somebody of the left, I haven't banged on about his skin colour at all, I note the Times have mentioned it, are they the Left now?
"The Left" is not a homogenous entity, you're doing exactly what you accuse people of doing when they bring identity politics into a debate. You're a hypocrite.
You've been rude to me by accusing me of falsifying and inventing things - that's very rude. And then you end your post with a direct insult.
You're actually a bit of an idiot. You only "like" a conservative poster, or say something positive about them, when they're telling you things you want to hear, like how well Starmer is doing or the effectiveness of his strategy. Otherwise you get very cross and you just can't handle it. It's a sign of your immaturity.
To the subject in hand: reporting or mentioning the story is quite right, and not the issue. But the citations from Lord Woolley and Carey in the article as well as Adonis all major on the fact he's black, and they are all of the Left.
I find that deeply patronising. It's your camp that insists on continually inserting it - wake up. I'm upset about it because Sentamu makes exceptional contributions to public life and I value him on his own merits. I know tens of thousands of Conservatives feel the same way. I want to take identity politics out of it.
This EU "Australia-style" arrangement being talked about for the UK.... I cant see how that would reflect the reality- Australian exports are dependent on China in ways that the UK could never be - is it because key UK voters think wealth, sunshine and warm feelings when Australia is mentioned, a bit like a security blanket, but wholly misleading?
No you are wrong. UK perceptions of how nice other countries are to live in has absolutely nothing to do with it. The Government has careful considered every other world country's trading relationship with the EU and concluded that Australia gives the best representation.
Really?
What do you think?
They looked for something that sounds plausible but doesn’t exist in reality so that supporters of the lunacy can go round shrieking Australia style deal
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
I'm looking for the post where he had the temerity to call you weird. I want to give it a 'like'
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
Um, there's something in what you say . But I admit to weirdness, and you think you're normal. We are all weird in our own individual ways.
If you mean we're all unique, then I'd agree with you.
I am a typical Shire Tory - and there are plenty like me, several on here - so I do think I have my finger on the pulse of a certain way of British thinking
Pre-pubescent eurocommunism is, shall we say, rather niche.
Not if you have spent time living in European countries as I believe @NickPalmer has.
In Italy, Communist parties regularly had “festa”s - like a fair with lots of fun and games and music and food and somewhere people flogging leaflets. Everyone went. I remember going to several as a child. We all did though my family were very far from being Communists. They were jolly affairs and it does not seem that odd to me that some precocious child might develop an interest in a jolly party which talked about fairness. No odder surely than a young Yorkshire boy called William reading Hansard under the bedclothes.
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You mean tier 1. Tier 3 is the highest level. Think of it like a multi storey car park.
Yes Tier 1 sorry but the point remains vast areas of the North, particularly rural Cumbria and North Yorkshire have had no extra restrictions at all and are still only in the medium tier whereas highly populated parts of the South like Essex and Elmbridge and of course London are now in the high Tier 2
The population of these "vast areas of the North" are tiny. All the major population centres are in at least Tier 2 now.
Good point. The country, and PB, seems disproportionately intereseted in pubs and football.
Our family uses gyms, especially the boys. And even me. Though mostly for the swimming pool. Of course, here I just have hills to walk in.
People feel that their concerns are being ignored because the government no longer has any coherent story to tell and because it feels that it is only bothered about those things which affect it and its friends. So lots of money for consultants run by Tories but nothing for everyone else.
This may be unfair but it risks very rapidly becoming the perception.
I’ll stick up for the government here. I don’t know what it’s like in other countries, but I don’t think we do compromise very well in this country. It’s a big part of why Brexit happened, in my opinion.
Angela Rayner described 134 deaths from COVID as “grim”. As long as there is a significant portion of the political and media class thinking this way, the government will not have a clear plan, because they’ll too fearful of being described as callous.
This is the problem. It doesn't matter what the numbers are. They are always "grim". A "grim milestone". "Somebody's family tragedy". Now that Labour's official policy is a "short circuit breaker" it will remain their policy and figures will always be presented in such a way as to reinforce their policy. Never mind the downsides of the policy.
The scientists are now arguing that we are in the worst case scenario of the "non-forecast forecast". Mocking those who mocked it before. Based on estimates from ONS statistics. But it's spin - it's not the same thing. The "non-forecast forecast" was based on a certain level of testing in the population. It was not fundamentally comparable to ONS numbers. But the latter spin the narrative so it's fair to use them.
The Left, with a level of patronisation only they specialise in, think Sentamu should have been given a peerage because he's black.
I think he should be given a peerage because he's a retiring archbishop and has made an extraordinary contribution to public debate - which he will continue to do in the Lords - including speaking out sensibly for cultural conservatism when rather few of his colleagues in the Synod were doing so.
He's intelligent, rational, moderate and sensible - Boris should be bending over backwards to honour him appropriately.
I'm left, why does his skin colour matter? You're inventing a fake culture war again
Did you even read my post?
It's THE LEFT that are banging on about his skin colour. Not me. The whole point of my post is that I DON'T GIVE A SHIT.
Don't bother engaging with my posts if you're going to be deliberately disingenuous.
I have better things to do with my time.
No need to be rude to me, I only asked a question.
As somebody of the left, I haven't banged on about his skin colour at all, I note the Times have mentioned it, are they the Left now?
"The Left" is not a homogenous entity, you're doing exactly what you accuse people of doing when they bring identity politics into a debate. You're a hypocrite.
You've been rude to me by accusing me of falsifying and inventing things - that's very rude. And then you end your post with a direct insult.
You're actually a bit of an idiot. You only "like" a conservative poster, or say something positive about them, when they're telling you things you want to hear, like how well Starmer is doing or the effectiveness of his strategy. Otherwise you get very cross and you just can't handle it. It's a sign of your immaturity.
To the subject in hand: reporting or mentioning the story is quite right, and not the issue. But the citations from Lord Woolley and Carey in the article as well as Adonis all major on the fact he's black, and they are all of the Left.
I find that deeply patronising. It's your camp that insists on continually inserting it - wake up. I'm upset about it because Sentamu makes exceptional contributions to public life and I value him on his own merits. I know tens of thousands of Conservatives feel the same way. I want to take identity politics out of it.
I expect this to be swiftly rectified.
Frankly, were I Sentamu I would refuse membership of an organisation which has people like Claire Fox in it. The PM has utterly devalued the currency with this appointment.
Sentamu is someone whose opinions are certainly worth hearing. On this I agree.
The Left, with a level of patronisation only they specialise in, think Sentamu should have been given a peerage because he's black.
I think he should be given a peerage because he's a retiring archbishop and has made an extraordinary contribution to public debate - which he will continue to do in the Lords - including speaking out sensibly for cultural conservatism when rather few of his colleagues in the Synod were doing so.
He's intelligent, rational, moderate and sensible - Boris should be bending over backwards to honour him appropriately.
I'm left, why does his skin colour matter? You're inventing a fake culture war again
Did you even read my post?
It's THE LEFT that are banging on about his skin colour. Not me. The whole point of my post is that I DON'T GIVE A SHIT.
Don't bother engaging with my posts if you're going to be deliberately disingenuous.
I have better things to do with my time.
No need to be rude to me, I only asked a question.
As somebody of the left, I haven't banged on about his skin colour at all, I note the Times have mentioned it, are they the Left now?
"The Left" is not a homogenous entity, you're doing exactly what you accuse people of doing when they bring identity politics into a debate. You're a hypocrite.
You've been rude to me by accusing me of falsifying and inventing things - that's very rude. And then you end your post with a direct insult.
You're actually a bit of an idiot. You only "like" a conservative poster, or say something positive about them, when they're telling you things you want to hear, like how well Starmer is doing or the effectiveness of his strategy. Otherwise you get very cross and you just can't handle it. It's a sign of your immaturity.
To the subject in hand: reporting or mentioning the story is quite right, and not the issue. But the citations from Lord Woolley and Carey in the article as well as Adonis all major on the fact he's black, and they are all of the Left.
I find that deeply patronising. It's your camp that insists on continually inserting it - wake up. I'm upset about it because Sentamu makes exceptional contributions to public life and I value him on his own merits. I know tens of thousands of Conservatives feel the same way. I want to take identity politics out of it.
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
Um, there's something in what you say . But I admit to weirdness, and you think you're normal. We are all weird in our own individual ways.
If you mean we're all unique, then I'd agree with you.
I am a typical Shire Tory - and there are plenty like me, several on here - so I do think I have my finger on the pulse of a certain way of British thinking
Pre-pubescent eurocommunism is, shall we say, rather niche.
Not if you have spent time living in European countries as I believe @NickPalmer has.
In Italy, Communist parties regularly had “festa”s - like a fair with lots of fun and games and music and food and somewhere people flogging leaflets. Everyone went. I remember going to several as a child. We all did though my family were very far from being Communists. They were jolly affairs and it does not seem that odd to me that some precocious child might develop an interest in a jolly party which talked about fairness. No odder surely than a young Yorkshire boy called William reading Hansard under the bedclothes.
Thanks, Cyclefree. I'd accept Casino's suggestion that he has a finger on the pulse of a certain way of British thinking, so long as he doesn't feel it's the only way to think.
We are all a little unusual in spending time here on a bright Sunday morning...
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
This EU "Australia-style" arrangement being talked about for the UK.... I cant see how that would reflect the reality- Australian exports are dependent on China in ways that the UK could never be - is it because key UK voters think wealth, sunshine and warm feelings when Australia is mentioned, a bit like a security blanket, but wholly misleading?
No you are wrong. UK perceptions of how nice other countries are to live in has absolutely nothing to do with it. The Government has careful considered every other world country's trading relationship with the EU and concluded that Australia gives the best representation.
Really?
What do you think?
They looked for something that sounds plausible but doesn’t exist in reality so that supporters of the lunacy can go round shrieking Australia style deal
Do i have to actually state "this post is laced with sarcasm" for this to be understood?
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
Um, there's something in what you say . But I admit to weirdness, and you think you're normal. We are all weird in our own individual ways.
Indeed, I would think posting about politics and culture on a betting site on a Sunday morning defines us all as a bit weird!
One of the delights of being British is the cultural choice of interests, far larger than when I've in NZ, though that has probably changed with the Internet age.
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You do realise that Barrow in Furness is in Cumbria?
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
Um, there's something in what you say . But I admit to weirdness, and you think you're normal. We are all weird in our own individual ways.
If you mean we're all unique, then I'd agree with you.
I am a typical Shire Tory - and there are plenty like me, several on here - so I do think I have my finger on the pulse of a certain way of British thinking
Pre-pubescent eurocommunism is, shall we say, rather niche.
Not if you have spent time living in European countries as I believe @NickPalmer has.
In Italy, Communist parties regularly had “festa”s - like a fair with lots of fun and games and music and food and somewhere people flogging leaflets. Everyone went. I remember going to several as a child. We all did though my family were very far from being Communists. They were jolly affairs and it does not seem that odd to me that some precocious child might develop an interest in a jolly party which talked about fairness. No odder surely than a young Yorkshire boy called William reading Hansard under the bedclothes.
Thanks, Cyclefree. I'd accept Casino's suggestion that he has a finger on the pulse of a certain way of British thinking, so long as he doesn't feel it's the only way to think.
We are all a little unusual in spending time here on a bright Sunday morning...
I think your posts are fascinating and we are extremely lucky to have a successful politician willing to post their ideas. I am sure your contributions are about 100x more useful than mine.
I'm weird, I work in Software Engineering for goodness sake. But life would be boring if we were all clones of each other.
The user in question is just a bully, keep posting
This EU "Australia-style" arrangement being talked about for the UK.... I cant see how that would reflect the reality- Australian exports are dependent on China in ways that the UK could never be - is it because key UK voters think wealth, sunshine and warm feelings when Australia is mentioned, a bit like a security blanket, but wholly misleading?
No you are wrong. UK perceptions of how nice other countries are to live in has absolutely nothing to do with it. The Government has careful considered every other world country's trading relationship with the EU and concluded that Australia gives the best representation.
Really?
What do you think?
They looked for something that sounds plausible but doesn’t exist in reality so that supporters of the lunacy can go round shrieking Australia style deal
Do i have to actually state "this post is laced with sarcasm" for this to be understood?
No but couldn’t miss the opportunity to explain Australian style deal
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
Um, there's something in what you say . But I admit to weirdness, and you think you're normal. We are all weird in our own individual ways.
If you mean we're all unique, then I'd agree with you.
I am a typical Shire Tory - and there are plenty like me, several on here - so I do think I have my finger on the pulse of a certain way of British thinking
Pre-pubescent eurocommunism is, shall we say, rather niche.
Not if you have spent time living in European countries as I believe @NickPalmer has.
In Italy, Communist parties regularly had “festa”s - like a fair with lots of fun and games and music and food and somewhere people flogging leaflets. Everyone went. I remember going to several as a child. We all did though my family were very far from being Communists. They were jolly affairs and it does not seem that odd to me that some precocious child might develop an interest in a jolly party which talked about fairness. No odder surely than a young Yorkshire boy called William reading Hansard under the bedclothes.
If it was just a jolly party then, yeah, but I think Nick (by his own admission) was weighing up the relative merits of Nixon and Kennedy's foreign policy in so far as he thought that'd affect his beloved Soviet bloc.
Not exactly the cheese dips or the bouncy castle, is it?
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
Um, there's something in what you say . But I admit to weirdness, and you think you're normal. We are all weird in our own individual ways.
If you mean we're all unique, then I'd agree with you.
I am a typical Shire Tory - and there are plenty like me, several on here - so I do think I have my finger on the pulse of a certain way of British thinking
Pre-pubescent eurocommunism is, shall we say, rather niche.
Not if you have spent time living in European countries as I believe @NickPalmer has.
In Italy, Communist parties regularly had “festa”s - like a fair with lots of fun and games and music and food and somewhere people flogging leaflets. Everyone went. I remember going to several as a child. We all did though my family were very far from being Communists. They were jolly affairs and it does not seem that odd to me that some precocious child might develop an interest in a jolly party which talked about fairness. No odder surely than a young Yorkshire boy called William reading Hansard under the bedclothes.
Thanks, Cyclefree. I'd accept Casino's suggestion that he has a finger on the pulse of a certain way of British thinking, so long as he doesn't feel it's the only way to think.
We are all a little unusual in spending time here on a bright Sunday morning...
Thanks. Of course not - I'm interested in all ways of thinking which is why I come on here. I'd get nothing from just an echo chamber.
Anyway, my family beckons - which is a better way to spend my Sunday in all honesty.
This EU "Australia-style" arrangement being talked about for the UK.... I cant see how that would reflect the reality- Australian exports are dependent on China in ways that the UK could never be - is it because key UK voters think wealth, sunshine and warm feelings when Australia is mentioned, a bit like a security blanket, but wholly misleading?
No you are wrong. UK perceptions of how nice other countries are to live in has absolutely nothing to do with it. The Government has careful considered every other world country's trading relationship with the EU and concluded that Australia gives the best representation.
Really?
What do you think?
They looked for something that sounds plausible but doesn’t exist in reality so that supporters of the lunacy can go round shrieking Australia style deal
Do i have to actually state "this post is laced with sarcasm" for this to be understood?
No but couldn’t miss the opportunity to explain Australian style deal
Fair enough. But unroll the quotes and you'll find it was explained perfectly adequately in the first post
It would appear who is and isn't the Left and what is and isn't the North is subject to definition by posters who aren't from either of those groupings.
Good point. The country, and PB, seems disproportionately intereseted in pubs and football.
Our family uses gyms, especially the boys. And even me. Though mostly for the swimming pool. Of course, here I just have hills to walk in.
People feel that their concerns are being ignored because the government no longer has any coherent story to tell and because it feels that it is only bothered about those things which affect it and its friends. So lots of money for consultants run by Tories but nothing for everyone else.
This may be unfair but it risks very rapidly becoming the perception.
I’ll stick up for the government here. I don’t know what it’s like in other countries, but I don’t think we do compromise very well in this country. It’s a big part of why Brexit happened, in my opinion.
Angela Rayner described 134 deaths from COVID as “grim”. As long as there is a significant portion of the political and media class thinking this way, the government will not have a clear plan, because they’ll too fearful of being described as callous.
You don't think 134 deaths are grim? I genuinely don't understand your point, sorry. I agree we're not very hood at compromise - which is odd, as it's really part of our self-image as a nation of sensible people.
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You do realise that Barrow in Furness is in Cumbria?
Only a small part of the county, the vast majority of Cumbria is still only in Tier 1, in Essex where I live the vast majority of the county is now in Tier 2 even if Southend and Thurrock are not
"After many years in which the world has afforded me many experiences, what I know most surely in the long run about morality and obligations, I owe to football." Albert Camus
The number of countries who have to try to cope without a proper cricket team to teach them the meaning of life is indeed a tragedy.
The Left, with a level of patronisation only they specialise in, think Sentamu should have been given a peerage because he's black.
I think he should be given a peerage because he's a retiring archbishop and has made an extraordinary contribution to public debate - which he will continue to do in the Lords - including speaking out sensibly for cultural conservatism when rather few of his colleagues in the Synod were doing so.
He's intelligent, rational, moderate and sensible - Boris should be bending over backwards to honour him appropriately.
I haven't heard anybody say that he should be given a peerage because he is black. I think there is a suspicion that the government would have given him one if he were white, which is a different point.
Andrew Adonis upthread. Do keep up. As have plenty of others on Twitter today.
The rest of your post is a pathetic attempt at dogwhistling and insinuation.
Adonis, that horny handed pinko tribune of the Left?
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You do realise that Barrow in Furness is in Cumbria?
Only a small part of the county, the vast majority of Cumbria is still only in Tier 1, in Essex where I live the vast majority of the county is now in Tier 2 even if Southend and Thurrock are not
13% of Cumbria's population. A higher percentage than Donald Trump's chance of winning the US election.
Responding to @IshmaelZ - The obsession with football, mostly by men, utterly baffles me. It is way beyond an interest and it starts early. I have seen 5 year old boys in tears because they are out with their mothers and missing whatever football match is on.
Is it genetic? Is there something programmed into the male brain to yell and scream as a ball gets kicked about?
[Edit: and to sit around for 2 or 3 hours before the match talking about it and then to sit around after the match talking about it even more. Why?]
It's an interesting question for a Sunday morning and here's what I reckon -
There is a pressure for men to like football and it's strong enough to compel compliance amongst all but the strongest minded. I'm sure there are female equivalents. High heels? Babies? So as in those cases lots of men do not particularly like football but they pretend they do. It's for 2 reasons, one positive, one not so much. The positive reason is so as to have a point of reference, an easy go-to for a lengthy but safe chat with other men. By safe, I mean not straying into sensitive areas of personal life. The less benign reason is fear. Fear not just of exclusion but of outright hostility and in extremis bodily harm. To illustrate with a quick true story. I was having a beer on my own in a bar in Vienna (where I then lived) and there were a couple of English blokes there, from Yorkshire, not really my type, bit laddy, but we got chatting like you do. All ok, albeit not a terrific conversation, until one of them lent forward and asked quite pointedly, "So, who d'you support?" I said, "How do you mean?" (because football had not yet been mentioned) and he sort of bridled and said, "Your team. Who's yer team?" Now normally I would have gone with it. Given an answer to suit. Probably "Sheffield Wednesday" I'd have picked in this case, or if I was feeling particularly warm and loose, "The Owls." But for some reason (I guess the bolshiness and dutch courage that comes from drink) I didn't do that this time. Instead I looked him right in the eye, stony faced, and said, "I don't have a team. I'm not that into football to be honest." The atmosphere darkened immediately. It was as if I had slapped his sister. Cue a stream of aggression, at first needling and faux bantery, then the sarcasm and contempt, and before too long the situation had become what could only be described as faintly menacing. Thankfully, I was able to extricate myself, but it wasn't a great experience and it would have never happened if I hadn't "dissed" the beautiful game.
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You mean tier 1. Tier 3 is the highest level. Think of it like a multi storey car park.
Yes Tier 1 sorry but the point remains vast areas of the North, particularly rural Cumbria and North Yorkshire have had no extra restrictions at all and are still only in the medium tier whereas highly populated parts of the South like Essex and Elmbridge and of course London are now in the high Tier 2
The population of these "vast areas of the North" are tiny. All the major population centres are in at least Tier 2 now.
No, Hull for example is still only in tier 1
Okay? Hull & Carlisle. Brilliant.
The point remains that you look like a pillock.
Oh no that is quite clearly you, given Hull has a population of 261,149
The Left, with a level of patronisation only they specialise in, think Sentamu should have been given a peerage because he's black.
I think he should be given a peerage because he's a retiring archbishop and has made an extraordinary contribution to public debate - which he will continue to do in the Lords - including speaking out sensibly for cultural conservatism when rather few of his colleagues in the Synod were doing so.
He's intelligent, rational, moderate and sensible - Boris should be bending over backwards to honour him appropriately.
I haven't heard anybody say that he should be given a peerage because he is black. I think there is a suspicion that the government would have given him one if he were white, which is a different point.
Andrew Adonis upthread. Do keep up. As have plenty of others on Twitter today.
The rest of your post is a pathetic attempt at dogwhistling and insinuation.
Sorry I don't go near twitter. I don't think there's anything dogwhistling or insinuating about my post, it means exactly what it says it means.
It would appear who is and isn't the Left and what is and isn't the North is subject to definition by posters who aren't from either of those groupings.
"The left" - anyone who isn't supporting no deal "The north" - anyone who isn't supporting no deal
Yes, I know that neither issue has anything to do with party politics. But SW1loons and their mad supporters see this all as a shell game, you're either with Shagger or you are a traitor. Which is how they can brief against "the left" in "the north" types making trouble for their impose Tier 3 plans, even though loud voices of protest are Tory MPs and council leaders.
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You mean tier 1. Tier 3 is the highest level. Think of it like a multi storey car park.
Yes Tier 1 sorry but the point remains vast areas of the North, particularly rural Cumbria and North Yorkshire have had no extra restrictions at all and are still only in the medium tier whereas highly populated parts of the South like Essex and Elmbridge and of course London are now in the high Tier 2
The population of these "vast areas of the North" are tiny. All the major population centres are in at least Tier 2 now.
No, Hull for example is still only in tier 1
Okay? Hull & Carlisle. Brilliant.
The point remains that you look like a pillock.
Oh no that is quite clearly you, given Hull has a population of 261,149
So Hull's population, less than 2% of the population of the North, is in Tier 1.
The fact is that all the major population centres in the North, with the exception of Hull (lol), are now in at least Tier 2.
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You do realise that Barrow in Furness is in Cumbria?
Only a small part of the county, the vast majority of Cumbria is still only in Tier 1, in Essex where I live the vast majority of the county is now in Tier 2 even if Southend and Thurrock are not
13% of Cumbria's population. A higher percentage than Donald Trump's chance of winning the US election.
So 87% are still in Tier 1, Silver of course got 2016 wrong and could get 2020 wrong top if the shy Trump voters turn out.
There are still up to 5% of US voters not committing to national polls to say they will be voting for Biden, Trump or 3rd party
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
I'm looking for the post where he had the temerity to call you weird. I want to give it a 'like'
I've missed you Wodger.
The "like" button is the worst feature of the new version of this site. It looks like there's nothing that can be done about it but I think it's lowered the quality of the discussion on here.
It encourages each side to play to their own galleries to get the most "likes" - in other words, it plays to sentimentality rather than rationality and introduces narcissism into the equation.
The very best posts on this site get just 1-3 likes rather than 5-8 likes.
In the old days you'd get people like @Jonathan and @SouthamObserver sometimes replying to arguments of mine saying "excellent post", which is all the praise I'd ever want or need. I'd do the same for some of theirs, we all learnt something and had a really interesting exchange of views.
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You do realise that Barrow in Furness is in Cumbria?
Only a small part of the county, the vast majority of Cumbria is still only in Tier 1, in Essex where I live the vast majority of the county is now in Tier 2 even if Southend and Thurrock are not
13% of Cumbria's population. A higher percentage than Donald Trump's chance of winning the US election.
So 87% are still in Tier 1, Silver of course got 2016 wrong and could get 2020 wrong top if the shy Trump voters turn out.
There are still up to 5% of US voters not committing to national polls to say they will be voting for Biden, Trump or 3rd party
These "shy Trump voters" which may not even exist of course.
"After many years in which the world has afforded me many experiences, what I know most surely in the long run about morality and obligations, I owe to football." Albert Camus
The number of countries who have to try to cope without a proper cricket team to teach them the meaning of life is indeed a tragedy.
Can we expect a 'Why Trump? Not enough cricket' piece from you?
I read quite a good novel (the title escapes me) a few years ago about an attempt to introduce cricket to the USA. It all dissolved into criminality, almost needless to say.
Responding to @IshmaelZ - The obsession with football, mostly by men, utterly baffles me. It is way beyond an interest and it starts early. I have seen 5 year old boys in tears because they are out with their mothers and missing whatever football match is on.
Is it genetic? Is there something programmed into the male brain to yell and scream as a ball gets kicked about?
[Edit: and to sit around for 2 or 3 hours before the match talking about it and then to sit around after the match talking about it even more. Why?]
You're surprised that human beings enjoy social and cultural events, and that some of those events are liked more by one sex than another?
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You mean tier 1. Tier 3 is the highest level. Think of it like a multi storey car park.
Yes Tier 1 sorry but the point remains vast areas of the North, particularly rural Cumbria and North Yorkshire have had no extra restrictions at all and are still only in the medium tier whereas highly populated parts of the South like Essex and Elmbridge and of course London are now in the high Tier 2
The population of these "vast areas of the North" are tiny. All the major population centres are in at least Tier 2 now.
No, Hull for example is still only in tier 1
Okay? Hull & Carlisle. Brilliant.
The point remains that you look like a pillock.
Oh no that is quite clearly you, given Hull has a population of 261,149
So Hull's population, less than 2% of the population of the North, is in Tier 1.
The fact is that all the major population centres in the North, with the exception of Hull (lol), are now in at least Tier 2.
I live in Epping, population 11, 461.
We are hardly a major population centre but still in Tier 2, if we were a market town in Cumbria or North Yorkshire we would likely still only be in Tier 1
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You do realise that Barrow in Furness is in Cumbria?
Only a small part of the county, the vast majority of Cumbria is still only in Tier 1, in Essex where I live the vast majority of the county is now in Tier 2 even if Southend and Thurrock are not
13% of Cumbria's population. A higher percentage than Donald Trump's chance of winning the US election.
Also a higher percentage of the likelihood of HYUFD being able to point to Barradise on a map
Good point. The country, and PB, seems disproportionately intereseted in pubs and football.
Our family uses gyms, especially the boys. And even me. Though mostly for the swimming pool. Of course, here I just have hills to walk in.
People feel that their concerns are being ignored because the government no longer has any coherent story to tell and because it feels that it is only bothered about those things which affect it and its friends. So lots of money for consultants run by Tories but nothing for everyone else.
This may be unfair but it risks very rapidly becoming the perception.
I’ll stick up for the government here. I don’t know what it’s like in other countries, but I don’t think we do compromise very well in this country. It’s a big part of why Brexit happened, in my opinion.
Angela Rayner described 134 deaths from COVID as “grim”. As long as there is a significant portion of the political and media class thinking this way, the government will not have a clear plan, because they’ll too fearful of being described as callous.
You don't think 134 deaths are grim? I genuinely don't understand your point, sorry. I agree we're not very hood at compromise - which is odd, as it's really part of our self-image as a nation of sensible people.
The point (I think) that all deaths are "grim". But, when used in such a way as to assess effectiveness of policy, there is no nuance to explain why any particular number should be described as such, whether it be 1 ("one family's tragedy"), 134 or 1,000. Bear in mind that had we had 134 deaths a day for every day of this crisis from March to now, we would quite possibly be saying that we had done fairly well.
Anyone who challenges it, and tries to argue against measures purely designed to reduce deaths, regardless of cost to economy or society, is accused of being "callous" and "unfeeling" and reducing deaths to a simple statistic. But that is, unfortunately, what Government is about. And it happens every day in most areas of policy.
Some people (not on PB) seem to be saying that a national lockdown is a good idea simply because it wouldn't make those living in particular areas feel "singled out" so to speak. I have to say this is the most stupid argument I've ever heard in my life.
I agree completely. If an area is harder hit it will be treated differently, that is not unfair or unreasonable, in fact it is fairer and more re
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
Trust you're feeling more positive yourself this morning, Mr P.
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You mean tier 1. Tier 3 is the highest level. Think of it like a multi storey car park.
Yes Tier 1 sorry but the point remains vast areas of the North, particularly rural Cumbria and North Yorkshire have had no extra restrictions at all and are still only in the medium tier whereas highly populated parts of the South like Essex and Elmbridge and of course London are now in the high Tier 2
The population of these "vast areas of the North" are tiny. All the major population centres are in at least Tier 2 now.
No, Hull for example is still only in tier 1
Okay? Hull & Carlisle. Brilliant.
The point remains that you look like a pillock.
Oh no that is quite clearly you, given Hull has a population of 261,149
So Hull's population, less than 2% of the population of the North, is in Tier 1.
The fact is that all the major population centres in the North, with the exception of Hull (lol), are now in at least Tier 2.
I live in Epping, population 11, 461.
We are hardly a major population centre but still in Tier 2, if we were a market town in Cumbria or North Yorkshire we would likely still only be in Tier 1
Your original point was that "vast areas of the North are in Tier 1" which is just downright misleading. I was merely highlighting that fact.
I really think people overplay the north south divide. Electorally there isn't that much evidence of anti-southness being a huge factor, when the big two are both big in the south (Labour pretty much in London, technically), and it feels like a self fulfilling prophecy where the true fact of not enough attention being paid to the north - something that's gone on for a long long time and which politicians always promise to address - gets conflated into some seething extreme position.
I think what really pissed off the northern leaders was that the original ‘discussions’ before these restrictions weren’t discussion at all, and that government refused even to listen to any points they wanted to make.
As often the case, local journalists put their London colleagues to shame:
This country is pretty much ungovernable at the moment. Not because of the rebellious north, because of the dickheads in SW1. The cabinet aren't just damaging the future prospects of their own party, they aren't just damaging the viability of the union, now they're damaging the fabric that holds the English union together.
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
Trust you're feeling more positive yourself this morning, Mr P.
Sending my best wishes again friend, likewise hope you're feeling a bit better
Help. I need the PB brains trust, especially the legal types.
Can someone enlighten me on the Tier 2 regulations? A mate has agreed to give a family member (of mine) a lift to a GP for an appointment. The mate is now wondering whether that breaks the rules (they live in another household) and is worried that they may technically be breaking the law.
I'm pretty sure that there is a general exemption for helping people in medical situations. But I need to be a bit firmer.
The alternative is a taxi, which seems actually more risky to me, as god knows who has been in the cab that morning.
As far as I'm aware, It's not illegal to share a car, regardless of the reason. It's only advised that you do not.
Irregardless of your feelings on this subject, quoting those figures from Ukactive is suspect:
- The date range of the figures is 25th July - 13th September. That is, from when gyms were allowed to reopen until, oooh, just before things really started to spike again. This smacks of cherry-picking. - Ukactive is an interested party; at least one of its directors is the director of a chain of gyms. Nobody should take on faith that they would provide a reliable narrative on the figures, or even reliable figures. - Ukactive is linked to Serco. I won't jump to any conclusions about that apart from to say there could be "linked" interests here.
Meeks talks about the problem of middle class lobbyists in politics; amen to that sentiment. But I've heard several articles on the radio about gyms in recent days, so the gym owners, along with the Dame and the Baroness on the board of Ukactive are clearly getting their message across. Then again, the latest of those was on the notoriously middle-class 5live, which is perhaps why Meeks missed it.
If it was "too large" why the feck are people like Jo Johnson, Claire Fox or Lebedev there?
When people cannot even come up with a plausible excuse, it is a bad sign (like when politicians fall back on the 'I'm stupid' defence for some problem).
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
I'm looking for the post where he had the temerity to call you weird. I want to give it a 'like'
I've missed you Wodger.
The "like" button is the worst feature of the new version of this site. It looks like there's nothing that can be done about it but I think it's lowered the quality of the discussion on here.
It encourages each side to play to their own galleries to get the most "likes" - in other words, it plays to sentimentality rather than rationality and introduces narcissism into the equation.
The very best posts on this site get just 1-3 likes rather than 5-8 likes.
In the old days you'd get people like @Jonathan and @SouthamObserver sometimes replying to arguments of mine saying "excellent post", which is all the praise I'd ever want or need. I'd do the same for some of theirs, we all learnt something and had a really interesting exchange of views.
I really miss that.
There are people who actually post on this site monitoring the amount of "likes" you get? How do you even do that?
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You mean tier 1. Tier 3 is the highest level. Think of it like a multi storey car park.
Yes Tier 1 sorry but the point remains vast areas of the North, particularly rural Cumbria and North Yorkshire have had no extra restrictions at all and are still only in the medium tier whereas highly populated parts of the South like Essex and Elmbridge and of course London are now in the high Tier 2
The population of these "vast areas of the North" are tiny. All the major population centres are in at least Tier 2 now.
No, Hull for example is still only in tier 1
Okay? Hull & Carlisle. Brilliant.
The point remains that you look like a pillock.
Oh no that is quite clearly you, given Hull has a population of 261,149
So Hull's population, less than 2% of the population of the North, is in Tier 1.
The fact is that all the major population centres in the North, with the exception of Hull (lol), are now in at least Tier 2.
I live in Epping, population 11, 461.
We are hardly a major population centre but still in Tier 2, if we were a market town in Cumbria or North Yorkshire we would likely still only be in Tier 1
You are in T2 because your fellow citizens didn’t follow the rules no other reason.
I live in Epping and we are now in Tier 2 too as is my sister in Beckenham and my cousin and family in Elmbridge as well, it is not just the North and Midlands you know, indeed some parts of the North are still only in Tier 1.
The tiers are solely based on where cases are rising most
Read the papers. The revolt isn’t over Tier 2, it’s about the proposal to move to Tier 3 in Greater Manchester, as has happened in Blackpool and others already.
Greater Manchester currently has 64,000 covid cases, only just behind Greater London on 69,000 cases and the second highest of any county or urban area in the UK despite the fact Greater London has almost 4 times the population of Greater Manchester
As I say, tell them that. When the situation was reversed in March and London was worse we had a national lockdown. It’s the people in the North you need to persuade. Their votes for your team are recent and can be swept out as fast as they were swept in. Your team needs to get its message over better.
The Tories only won 9 out of 27 Greater Manchester seats even when they won a landslide nationally last year, however decisions on tiers must be based on the case rises anyway without the economic damage of a full national lockdown again.
Much of the North is still in neither Tier 2 or 3, that includes Cumbria, North Yorkshire, Hull and Humberside while London and Essex are in Tier 2
Good to see that you've worked out what your nation is.
What level of dissent from 'the North' would require an armed intervention d'ye think?
As I pointed out I live in Essex which is in tier 2, if I lived in Cumbria or North Yorkshire I would still only be in Tier 3
You mean tier 1. Tier 3 is the highest level. Think of it like a multi storey car park.
Yes Tier 1 sorry but the point remains vast areas of the North, particularly rural Cumbria and North Yorkshire have had no extra restrictions at all and are still only in the medium tier whereas highly populated parts of the South like Essex and Elmbridge and of course London are now in the high Tier 2
The population of these "vast areas of the North" are tiny. All the major population centres are in at least Tier 2 now.
No, Hull for example is still only in tier 1
Okay? Hull & Carlisle. Brilliant.
The point remains that you look like a pillock.
Oh no that is quite clearly you, given Hull has a population of 261,149
So Hull's population, less than 2% of the population of the North, is in Tier 1.
The fact is that all the major population centres in the North, with the exception of Hull (lol), are now in at least Tier 2.
I live in Epping, population 11, 461.
We are hardly a major population centre but still in Tier 2, if we were a market town in Cumbria or North Yorkshire we would likely still only be in Tier 1
Your original point was that "vast areas of the North are in Tier 1" which is just downright misleading. I was merely highlighting that fact.
Nope, it was not misleading, Cumbria and North Yorkshire are 'vast areas of the North' as any map would show you and Hull is also a major population centre, over 20 times the size of Epping and Hull is in Tier 1 while we are in Tier 2
The practical problem is that gyms are a massive covid risk, if anywhere is going to be forced to close - and the British like to do things with rules rather than voluntary action and common sense, since they hate freedom - they're absolutely top of the list. You might just be able to fix it with heroically expensive ventilation systems but in practice they're just going to faff around with sanitization and things.
The government could do more to give gyms money to compensate, but that won't satisfy the people who can't go to the gym. There's no way to satisfy these people consistent with public health, because they want to do something in the middle of a pandemic, and the thing they want to do spreads the pandemic.
I'd think that was true, so I do support closing gyms. But Alastair's wider point is true too. I'm a fairly conventional politician in some ways, and I think schools and unis and major factories are jolly important, but I've never even considered visiting a gym, any more than a boxing match or a German beer hall - they're all outside my cultural reference area, and at some level I (therefore?) instinctively think of them as less important or even, as Hillary Clinton might say, deplorable - why aren't the body-builders reading books or distributing political leaflets, eh? That kind of thinking does contribute to the cultural alienation which feeds issues like Brexit and politicians like Trump, and people like me need to get past ourselves. Thanks for the thought-provoking piece.
You write posts like this and you have the temerity to call me weird. Someone who was also avowed communist at the age of TEN and more concerned about Kennedy's foreign policy than his train set.
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
I'm looking for the post where he had the temerity to call you weird. I want to give it a 'like'
I've missed you Wodger.
The "like" button is the worst feature of the new version of this site. It looks like there's nothing that can be done about it but I think it's lowered the quality of the discussion on here.
It encourages each side to play to their own galleries to get the most "likes" - in other words, it plays to sentimentality rather than rationality and introduces narcissism into the equation.
The very best posts on this site get just 1-3 likes rather than 5-8 likes.
In the old days you'd get people like @Jonathan and @SouthamObserver sometimes replying to arguments of mine saying "excellent post", which is all the praise I'd ever want or need. I'd do the same for some of theirs, we all learnt something and had a really interesting exchange of views.
He has consistently voted against all Brexit legislation.
And/or racism.
Seems unlikely to me - When rewarding with political favours I highly doubt the government cares what colour skin anyone is, if that person is politically aligned with them.
Comments
Albert Camus
You are like an alien from outer space who has been lobotomized by David Icke, had surgery to look more like Trotsky and then converted to Scientology.
People feel that their concerns are being ignored because the government no longer has any coherent story to tell and because it feels that it is only bothered about those things which affect it and its friends. So lots of money for consultants run by Tories but nothing for everyone else.
This may be unfair but it risks very rapidly becoming the perception.
He doesn't even have that anymore.
I am a typical Shire Tory - and there are plenty like me, several on here - so I do think I have my finger on the pulse of a certain way of British thinking
Pre-pubescent eurocommunism is, shall we say, rather niche.
It's THE LEFT that are banging on about his skin colour. Not me. The whole point of my post is that I DON'T GIVE A SHIT.
Don't bother engaging with my posts if you're going to be deliberately disingenuous.
I have better things to do with my time.
There is a pressure for men to like football and it's strong enough to compel compliance amongst all but the strongest minded. I'm sure there are female equivalents. High heels? Babies? So as in those cases lots of men do not particularly like football but they pretend they do. It's for 2 reasons, one positive, one not so much. The positive reason is so as to have a point of reference, an easy go-to for a lengthy but safe chat with other men. By safe, I mean not straying into sensitive areas of personal life. The less benign reason is fear. Fear not just of exclusion but of outright hostility and in extremis bodily harm. To illustrate with a quick true story. I was having a beer on my own in a bar in Vienna (where I then lived) and there were a couple of English blokes there, from Yorkshire, not really my type, bit laddy, but we got chatting like you do. All ok, albeit not a terrific conversation, until one of them lent forward and asked quite pointedly, "So, who d'you support?" I said, "How do you mean?" (because football had not yet been mentioned) and he sort of bridled and said, "Your team. Who's yer team?" Now normally I would have gone with it. Given an answer to suit. Probably "Sheffield Wednesday" I'd have picked in this case, or if I was feeling particularly warm and loose, "The Owls." But for some reason (I guess the bolshiness and dutch courage that comes from drink) I didn't do that this time. Instead I looked him right in the eye, stony faced, and said, "I don't have a team. I'm not that into football to be honest." The atmosphere darkened immediately. It was as if I had slapped his sister. Cue a stream of aggression, at first needling and faux bantery, then the sarcasm and contempt, and before too long the situation had become what could only be described as faintly menacing. Thankfully, I was able to extricate myself, but it wasn't a great experience and it would have never happened if I hadn't "dissed" the beautiful game.
Peerage snub for top black bishop
I mean I doubt it is because he's black but you can hardly blame people for going there with piss poor excuses like these
The rest of your post is a pathetic attempt at dogwhistling and insinuation.
As somebody of the left, I haven't banged on about his skin colour at all, I note the Times have mentioned it, are they the Left now?
"The Left" is not a homogenous entity, you're doing exactly what you accuse people of doing when they bring identity politics into a debate. You're a hypocrite.
My experience has been that when I bet on them I lose, though, which is why I've largely stopped.
They wanted BoZo in Downing Street, and he is there.
And he's shit.
The response to Covid has been criminal, Brexit is the shitshow we always knew it would be, the Lords appointments is unconscionable.
Kevin and Perry have fucked up every single item of Government they have touched.
This is not about left or right, or party, or tribe. When the folks in charge are this bad, at everything, surely at some point you have to think, "wait a minute, maybe he's not the messiah..."
Angela Rayner described 134 deaths from COVID as “grim”. As long as there is a significant portion of the political and media class thinking this way, the government will not have a clear plan, because they’ll too fearful of being described as callous.
You're actually a bit of an idiot. You only "like" a conservative poster, or say something positive about them, when they're telling you things you want to hear, like how well Starmer is doing or the effectiveness of his strategy. Otherwise you get very cross and you just can't handle it. It's a sign of your immaturity.
To the subject in hand: reporting or mentioning the story is quite right, and not the issue. But the citations from Lord Woolley and Carey in the article as well as Adonis all major on the fact he's black, and they are all of the Left.
I find that deeply patronising. It's your camp that insists on continually inserting it - wake up. I'm upset about it because Sentamu makes exceptional contributions to public life and I value him on his own merits. I know tens of thousands of Conservatives feel the same way. I want to take identity politics out of it.
I expect this to be swiftly rectified.
In Italy, Communist parties regularly had “festa”s - like a fair with lots of fun and games and music and food and somewhere people flogging leaflets. Everyone went. I remember going to several as a child. We all did though my family were very far from being Communists. They were jolly affairs and it does not seem that odd to me that some precocious child might develop an interest in a jolly party which talked about fairness. No odder surely than a young Yorkshire boy called William reading Hansard under the bedclothes.
The point remains that you look like a pillock.
The scientists are now arguing that we are in the worst case scenario of the "non-forecast forecast". Mocking those who mocked it before. Based on estimates from ONS statistics. But it's spin - it's not the same thing. The "non-forecast forecast" was based on a certain level of testing in the population. It was not fundamentally comparable to ONS numbers. But the latter spin the narrative so it's fair to use them.
Sentamu is someone whose opinions are certainly worth hearing. On this I agree.
We are all a little unusual in spending time here on a bright Sunday morning...
"English Union"? Yes - as I point out to tiresome wankers who bleat on about multiculturalism, England is very multicultural. "The North" is a very different place to "The South". And there are of course very different groups within those lose definitions.
As the Norman empire finally falls apart during the rest of this decade, perhaps HYUFD types will ask themselves not if they will accept the departure of Scotland and Ulster from the Union but if they can accept the departure of Yorkshire and Lancashire from England - how much of your own country do you arrogantly claim you can control by sneering dictat?
One of the delights of being British is the cultural choice of interests, far larger than when I've in NZ, though that has probably changed with the Internet age.
I'm weird, I work in Software Engineering for goodness sake. But life would be boring if we were all clones of each other.
The user in question is just a bully, keep posting
Not exactly the cheese dips or the bouncy castle, is it?
Anyway, my family beckons - which is a better way to spend my Sunday in all honesty.
Toodaloo.
If so then Sturgeon will have to decided very soon whether to extend them.
This culture war is made up and not a real issue, it's simply today's Brexit
https://twitter.com/dlknowles/status/1317770024963231745?s=20
And now, domestic life beckons...
"The north" - anyone who isn't supporting no deal
Yes, I know that neither issue has anything to do with party politics. But SW1loons and their mad supporters see this all as a shell game, you're either with Shagger or you are a traitor. Which is how they can brief against "the left" in "the north" types making trouble for their impose Tier 3 plans, even though loud voices of protest are Tory MPs and council leaders.
The fact is that all the major population centres in the North, with the exception of Hull (lol), are now in at least Tier 2.
There are still up to 5% of US voters not committing to national polls to say they will be voting for Biden, Trump or 3rd party
The "like" button is the worst feature of the new version of this site. It looks like there's nothing that can be done about it but I think it's lowered the quality of the discussion on here.
It encourages each side to play to their own galleries to get the most "likes" - in other words, it plays to sentimentality rather than rationality and introduces narcissism into the equation.
The very best posts on this site get just 1-3 likes rather than 5-8 likes.
In the old days you'd get people like @Jonathan and @SouthamObserver sometimes replying to arguments of mine saying "excellent post", which is all the praise I'd ever want or need. I'd do the same for some of theirs, we all learnt something and had a really interesting exchange of views.
I really miss that.
Its not even as if he ever showed any loyalty to Boris.
I read quite a good novel (the title escapes me) a few years ago about an attempt to introduce cricket to the USA. It all dissolved into criminality, almost needless to say.
We are hardly a major population centre but still in Tier 2, if we were a market town in Cumbria or North Yorkshire we would likely still only be in Tier 1
Anyone who challenges it, and tries to argue against measures purely designed to reduce deaths, regardless of cost to economy or society, is accused of being "callous" and "unfeeling" and reducing deaths to a simple statistic. But that is, unfortunately, what Government is about. And it happens every day in most areas of policy.
Seems there is an exception for medical visits anyway.
https://twitter.com/DavidDavisMP/status/1317760414218883072?s=20
https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/1317769946961747974?s=20
- The date range of the figures is 25th July - 13th September. That is, from when gyms were allowed to reopen until, oooh, just before things really started to spike again. This smacks of cherry-picking.
- Ukactive is an interested party; at least one of its directors is the director of a chain of gyms. Nobody should take on faith that they would provide a reliable narrative on the figures, or even reliable figures.
- Ukactive is linked to Serco. I won't jump to any conclusions about that apart from to say there could be "linked" interests here.
Meeks talks about the problem of middle class lobbyists in politics; amen to that sentiment. But I've heard several articles on the radio about gyms in recent days, so the gym owners, along with the Dame and the Baroness on the board of Ukactive are clearly getting their message across. Then again, the latest of those was on the notoriously middle-class 5live, which is perhaps why Meeks missed it.
There are 108 bishops in total apparently, I don't see the outrage in not giving one a peerage.