And now having to shut up shop again while the nobs are free to hunt and fish.
It is an organised sport.
Ah so pigeon racing carries on then. Good news. Begs the question, though, of which working class equivalents to grouse shooting that do need an exemption are for some strange reason not getting one from this Tory government.
A bit more preparation would have seen an incisive, coruscating, acute post from you.
As it is you're having a bit of a shocker.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the matter. I sense it might be a weathercock as to this government's real attitudes and priorities. A sign that the Red Wall should prepare to be betrayed. First in small ways (like this) but before long fundamentally and profoundly.
You are making the usual urban mistake of thinking that it is only "nobs" that shoot and fish. Silly prejudice, that is way beneath someone that normally writes very well thought out posts.
Yes, but who owns the land and who profits from renting it out for shooting?
Quite an interesting study here, if it so moves you.
I'm sure choirs provide immeasurable benefit to their participants (around 2m according to one study) but I'm not sure they've quantified the economic benefit.
Ah yes shootingfacts.co.uk, that impartial seeker of truth... The whole of the agricultural sector, including hunting as well as all crop and animal production, is worth a bit over £13bn, so I am calling bullshit on that claim.
And now having to shut up shop again while the nobs are free to hunt and fish.
It is an organised sport.
Ah so pigeon racing carries on then. Good news. Begs the question, though, of which working class equivalents to grouse shooting that do need an exemption are for some strange reason not getting one from this Tory government.
A bit more preparation would have seen an incisive, coruscating, acute post from you.
As it is you're having a bit of a shocker.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the matter. I sense it might be a weathercock as to this government's real attitudes and priorities. A sign that the Red Wall should prepare to be betrayed. First in small ways (like this) but before long fundamentally and profoundly.
You are making the usual urban mistake of thinking that it is only "nobs" that shoot and fish. Silly prejudice, that is way beneath someone that normally writes very well thought out posts.
Yes, but who owns the land and who profits from renting it out for shooting?
Lots of small businesses benefit from shooting and fishing, some in rural areas that have very delicate economies. To the average urbanite it is all about "nobs" though. Extreme prejudice against traditional country people is alive and kicking, sadly.
I had a very working class friend who enjoyed his pigeon shooting - I used to take his retriever out hunting (for fossils, so he was pretty useless with me, but he was a trained gundog all right).
It's the differential treatment with other sports which might grate with the public. As do the organised bloodsports per se. It's one thing to harvest/control potential vermin such as deer and partridge, and eat the results, but a couple of guns walking over the fields wouildn't come under the restrictions anyway.
There is no differential treatment, all organised outdoor sports are included.
Are partridge vermin? They may eat a bit of corn, but they wouldn't be there in the numbers for anyone to notice if they weren't bred and put out to be shot, I don't think.
I'm more familiar with pheasant - they did use to be bred and put out to be shot next to where I live. Rather unkind. Much less uneasy with a more natural population. Not so familair with partridge - always assumed a natural pest species in the south.
Economist model has chance of a Biden win at 84%, Trump at 15%. It also has the probabilities for Florida as 70% Biden, 30% Trump.
By clicking once, or twice, on Florida on the map, you can see how the probabilities at the national level (and for key states in the table below the map) change if either Biden or Trump wins FL. In other words, you can explore the correlations. In this case, if Trump wins FL, then the chance of him winning nationally goes up to 45%.
If you assign Arizona to the Democrats it gives 96+% chance for them to win. Az Dem, Fl GOP is 20% chance for Trump.
If Trump holds Florida and wins Pennsylvania and Michigan he can afford to lose Arizona
And now having to shut up shop again while the nobs are free to hunt and fish.
It is an organised sport.
Ah so pigeon racing carries on then. Good news. Begs the question, though, of which working class equivalents to grouse shooting that do need an exemption are for some strange reason not getting one from this Tory government.
A bit more preparation would have seen an incisive, coruscating, acute post from you.
As it is you're having a bit of a shocker.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the matter. I sense it might be a weathercock as to this government's real attitudes and priorities. A sign that the Red Wall should prepare to be betrayed. First in small ways (like this) but before long fundamentally and profoundly.
You are making the usual urban mistake of thinking that it is only "nobs" that shoot and fish. Silly prejudice, that is way beneath someone that normally writes very well thought out posts.
Yes, but who owns the land and who profits from renting it out for shooting?
Lots of small businesses benefit from shooting and fishing, some in rural areas that have very delicate economies. To the average urbanite it is all about "nobs" though. Extreme prejudice against traditional country people is alive and kicking, sadly.
I had a very working class friend who enjoyed his pigeon shooting - I used to take his retriever out hunting (for fossils, so he was pretty useless with me, but he was a trained gundog all right).
It's the differential treatment with other sports which might grate with the public. As do the organised bloodsports per se. It's one thing to harvest/control potential vermin such as deer and partridge, and eat the results, but a couple of guns walking over the fields wouildn't come under the restrictions anyway.
There is no differential treatment, all organised outdoor sports are included.
Are partridge vermin? They may eat a bit of corn, but they wouldn't be there in the numbers for anyone to notice if they weren't bred and put out to be shot, I don't think.
I'm more familiar with pheasant - they did use to be bred and put out to be shot next to where I live. Rather unkind. Much less uneasy with a more natural population. Not so familair with partridge - always assumed a natural pest species in the south.
Ideally those birds shot would be eaten but I accept that this does not always happen to every bird. Still, if you pop into your local butcher you will see plenty of game. Same with some restaurants.
And now having to shut up shop again while the nobs are free to hunt and fish.
It is an organised sport.
Ah so pigeon racing carries on then. Good news. Begs the question, though, of which working class equivalents to grouse shooting that do need an exemption are for some strange reason not getting one from this Tory government.
A bit more preparation would have seen an incisive, coruscating, acute post from you.
As it is you're having a bit of a shocker.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the matter. I sense it might be a weathercock as to this government's real attitudes and priorities. A sign that the Red Wall should prepare to be betrayed. First in small ways (like this) but before long fundamentally and profoundly.
You are making the usual urban mistake of thinking that it is only "nobs" that shoot and fish. Silly prejudice, that is way beneath someone that normally writes very well thought out posts.
Yes, but who owns the land and who profits from renting it out for shooting?
Quite an interesting study here, if it so moves you.
I'm sure choirs provide immeasurable benefit to their participants (around 2m according to one study) but I'm not sure they've quantified the economic benefit.
Ah yes shootingfacts.co.uk, that impartial seeker of truth... The whole of the agricultural sector, including hunting as well as all crop and animal production, is worth a bit over £13bn, so I am calling bullshit on that claim.
The high-roller Arabs who shoot at the big local estate swap out their London tarts on a daily basis, by jet, while they're down here. That must boost GDP a bit.
And now having to shut up shop again while the nobs are free to hunt and fish.
It is an organised sport.
Ah so pigeon racing carries on then. Good news. Begs the question, though, of which working class equivalents to grouse shooting that do need an exemption are for some strange reason not getting one from this Tory government.
A bit more preparation would have seen an incisive, coruscating, acute post from you.
As it is you're having a bit of a shocker.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the matter. I sense it might be a weathercock as to this government's real attitudes and priorities. A sign that the Red Wall should prepare to be betrayed. First in small ways (like this) but before long fundamentally and profoundly.
You are making the usual urban mistake of thinking that it is only "nobs" that shoot and fish. Silly prejudice, that is way beneath someone that normally writes very well thought out posts.
Yes, but who owns the land and who profits from renting it out for shooting?
Lots of small businesses benefit from shooting and fishing, some in rural areas that have very delicate economies. To the average urbanite it is all about "nobs" though. Extreme prejudice against traditional country people is alive and kicking, sadly.
I had a very working class friend who enjoyed his pigeon shooting - I used to take his retriever out hunting (for fossils, so he was pretty useless with me, but he was a trained gundog all right).
It's the differential treatment with other sports which might grate with the public. As do the organised bloodsports per se. It's one thing to harvest/control potential vermin such as deer and partridge, and eat the results, but a couple of guns walking over the fields wouildn't come under the restrictions anyway.
Partridge are not vermin, they are game as are deer. As HYUFD has mentioned, other sports do have exemptions. As I have spent most of my life living in the countryside and with strong links to farming and rural communities, I really do wish people who clearly know so little about the subjects would do a little research before pontificating. The level of ignorance expressed, by an otherwise educated group of people is a little depressing.
It surprises me that there are any Tory MPs left who have not yet realised that Geoff Cox has a sole aim from his time in politics: self promotion for the benefit of his private Chambers.
Apparently a few have worked out they might still need a career after this Government falls
I used to work with some very active "shooting and fishing" types. My colleague used to describe shooting as "the humane harvesting of free range, organic produce"
Sadly not true with modern pheasant shooting, they are high-velocity battery chickens.
Another key point is ‘tests sent out’ v ‘tests done’
The headline figure of 227,000 on the UK Gov dashboard is "tests processed" and the info box confirms it doesn't include tests sent out and not returned. The big Q is, how much of that is backlogging from days ago at the moment?
I can’t remember such a “tomorrow’s chip paper” argument as this one over the Internal Markets Bill. It surprises me that there are any Tory MPs left who have not yet realised that Geoff Cox has a sole aim from his time in politics: self promotion for the benefit of his private Chambers. He’d no doubt be delighted to get kicked out on a “point of principle”, His political career having pretty much exhausted its usefulness to him.
I follow politics closer than most and I can’t even remember what the rebellion was over this time last year that saw all those MPs expelled. Those considering the same now would do well to consider what pathetic figures the likes of Stewart, Gauke and Greening now cut, sniping on Twitter to try and preserve some semblance of relevance. Or Hammond, tarting himself like Blair. Major, May and Blair are hardly disinterested parties either.
It’s all just the rough and tumble of dealing with the EU. I’m in uproar over the government’s Rule of Six and snitching agenda, necessitated only by how ineptly it’s run and communicated the covid response. But I’m giving three cheers that they’re giving a robust response to the EU and are prepared to break a few eggs.
Last year you got thrown out for not backing the Withdrawal Agreement
This year you get thrown out for not opposing the same Withdrawal Agreement
If you assigned Chingford and Wood Green to the Tories next time round any model would show them having a good chance of increasing their majority too.
And now having to shut up shop again while the nobs are free to hunt and fish.
It is an organised sport.
Ah so pigeon racing carries on then. Good news. Begs the question, though, of which working class equivalents to grouse shooting that do need an exemption are for some strange reason not getting one from this Tory government.
A bit more preparation would have seen an incisive, coruscating, acute post from you.
As it is you're having a bit of a shocker.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the matter. I sense it might be a weathercock as to this government's real attitudes and priorities. A sign that the Red Wall should prepare to be betrayed. First in small ways (like this) but before long fundamentally and profoundly.
You are making the usual urban mistake of thinking that it is only "nobs" that shoot and fish. Silly prejudice, that is way beneath someone that normally writes very well thought out posts.
Yes, but who owns the land and who profits from renting it out for shooting?
Lots of small businesses benefit from shooting and fishing, some in rural areas that have very delicate economies. To the average urbanite it is all about "nobs" though. Extreme prejudice against traditional country people is alive and kicking, sadly.
I had a very working class friend who enjoyed his pigeon shooting - I used to take his retriever out hunting (for fossils, so he was pretty useless with me, but he was a trained gundog all right).
It's the differential treatment with other sports which might grate with the public. As do the organised bloodsports per se. It's one thing to harvest/control potential vermin such as deer and partridge, and eat the results, but a couple of guns walking over the fields wouildn't come under the restrictions anyway.
Partridge are not vermin, they are game as are deer. As HYUFD has mentioned, other sports do have exemptions. As I have spent most of my life living in the countryside and with strong links to farming and rural communities, I really do wish people who clearly know so little about the subjects would do a little research before pontificating. The level of ignorance expressed, by an otherwise educated group of people is a little depressing.
The whole point about deer is that they don't have predators in the UK so undergo population booms with the consequent effect on the habitat. Ergo they are vermin and need to be controlled by shooting. You can call them game as well as you like. Many years ago I visited Rum and read up on the NCC's experiments there e.g. on the reforestation over decades and the impact of the deer on the natural woodland is very clear indeed. Indeed I gather that the shooting industry's idea of a reasonable population level is stillr ather higher than biological arguments would imply - it certainly was the last time I read into it.
I was being kind and assuming the same about partridge.
Edit: NB I am being positive about the shooting industry to the degree that they do a necessary job. But breeding and releasing? That's a different matter.
If you assigned Chingford and Wood Green to the Tories next time round any model would show them having a good chance of increasing their majority too.
And now having to shut up shop again while the nobs are free to hunt and fish.
It is an organised sport.
Ah so pigeon racing carries on then. Good news. Begs the question, though, of which working class equivalents to grouse shooting that do need an exemption are for some strange reason not getting one from this Tory government.
A bit more preparation would have seen an incisive, coruscating, acute post from you.
As it is you're having a bit of a shocker.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the matter. I sense it might be a weathercock as to this government's real attitudes and priorities. A sign that the Red Wall should prepare to be betrayed. First in small ways (like this) but before long fundamentally and profoundly.
You are making the usual urban mistake of thinking that it is only "nobs" that shoot and fish. Silly prejudice, that is way beneath someone that normally writes very well thought out posts.
Yes, but who owns the land and who profits from renting it out for shooting?
Quite an interesting study here, if it so moves you.
I'm sure choirs provide immeasurable benefit to their participants (around 2m according to one study) but I'm not sure they've quantified the economic benefit.
Ah yes shootingfacts.co.uk, that impartial seeker of truth... The whole of the agricultural sector, including hunting as well as all crop and animal production, is worth a bit over £13bn, so I am calling bullshit on that claim.
Fair enough. What do you think it is?
I have no idea. But I know that it is not 15% of the agricultural sector. If I was being generous I could imagine it being 2% of the agricultural sector, so about £250mn, so the £2bn "estimate" would be out by a factor of eight. To be honest, if people get off on killing things then fair enough, it's not my cup of tea but whatever. It's just revealing that in the middle of the pandemic the government found time to schedule a high level meeting (albeit subsequently cancelled) in order to make sure that their wealthy donors aren't inconvenienced. At the same time as inviting the public to grass on their neighbours if they have a kids' birthday part in the back garden. Like with the Cummings episode, it speaks volumes about how the government creates a hierarchy of rights for the rich and powerful and responsibilities for everyone else.
Another key point is ‘tests sent out’ v ‘tests done’
Tests sent out don't get counted, the testing figures are now reported as tests processed. The government processes around 220k tests per day and it takes around 250k swabs per day. The issue is that mismatch which is causing a backlog to build up.
My current theory is that the government has stopped investing in PCR based testing and processing in favour of the rapid test machines but they've switched with poor timing with the latter not delivering as quickly as expected and PCR capacity now fixed due to investment in new capacity there being cut.
And now having to shut up shop again while the nobs are free to hunt and fish.
It is an organised sport.
Ah so pigeon racing carries on then. Good news. Begs the question, though, of which working class equivalents to grouse shooting that do need an exemption are for some strange reason not getting one from this Tory government.
A bit more preparation would have seen an incisive, coruscating, acute post from you.
As it is you're having a bit of a shocker.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the matter. I sense it might be a weathercock as to this government's real attitudes and priorities. A sign that the Red Wall should prepare to be betrayed. First in small ways (like this) but before long fundamentally and profoundly.
You are making the usual urban mistake of thinking that it is only "nobs" that shoot and fish. Silly prejudice, that is way beneath someone that normally writes very well thought out posts.
Yes, but who owns the land and who profits from renting it out for shooting?
Lots of small businesses benefit from shooting and fishing, some in rural areas that have very delicate economies. To the average urbanite it is all about "nobs" though. Extreme prejudice against traditional country people is alive and kicking, sadly.
I had a very working class friend who enjoyed his pigeon shooting - I used to take his retriever out hunting (for fossils, so he was pretty useless with me, but he was a trained gundog all right).
It's the differential treatment with other sports which might grate with the public. As do the organised bloodsports per se. It's one thing to harvest/control potential vermin such as deer and partridge, and eat the results, but a couple of guns walking over the fields wouildn't come under the restrictions anyway.
There is no differential treatment, all organised outdoor sports are included.
Are partridge vermin? They may eat a bit of corn, but they wouldn't be there in the numbers for anyone to notice if they weren't bred and put out to be shot, I don't think.
I'm more familiar with pheasant - they did use to be bred and put out to be shot next to where I live. Rather unkind. Much less uneasy with a more natural population. Not so familair with partridge - always assumed a natural pest species in the south.
Ideally those birds shot would be eaten but I accept that this does not always happen to every bird. Still, if you pop into your local butcher you will see plenty of game. Same with some restaurants.
I know. I eat the stuff! (from the local community shop, as it happens.)
Another key point is ‘tests sent out’ v ‘tests done’
The headline figure of 227,000 on the UK Gov dashboard is "tests processed" and the info box confirms it doesn't include tests sent out and not returned. The big Q is, how much of that is backlogging from days ago at the moment?
It will, I bet, however count multiple tests done on the same person (e.g. nose swab and throat swab) as multiple tests, and include tests done for lab research purposes etc. Yet the impression given is that these are all individual discrete members of the public being tested.
Another key point is ‘tests sent out’ v ‘tests done’
The headline figure of 227,000 on the UK Gov dashboard is "tests processed" and the info box confirms it doesn't include tests sent out and not returned. The big Q is, how much of that is backlogging from days ago at the moment?
It will, I bet, however count multiple tests done on the same person (e.g. nose swab and throat swab) as multiple tests, and include tests done for lab research purposes etc. Yet the impression given is that these are all individual discrete members of the public being tested.
I don't think it does any more. It only counts tests processed, not number of swabs taken.
If you assigned Chingford and Wood Green to the Tories next time round any model would show them having a good chance of increasing their majority too.
What's your point?
Holding both Arizona and Florida looks unlikely if the polling is correct. Any assignment of both Arizona & Florida to the GOP thereby necessarily skews the necessary national data to overly artificially lower Biden's chances. Tbh I'm surprised Biden's chances are still as high as 44% in the scenario he wins neither. It basically requires a perfect path through the rest of the country against a known roughly nationally poor ceiling. The comparison with Chingford was because the sunbelt is trending Dem, like London is broadly trending Labour.
I used to work with some very active "shooting and fishing" types. My colleague used to describe shooting as "the humane harvesting of free range, organic produce"
Sadly not true with modern pheasant shooting, they are high-velocity battery chickens.
Total bollox.
I have been shooting pheasant for 45 years, I used to own one-sixth of a pheasant shoot, and I am happy to back either or both of those statements with a 4 figure bet. Good to hear how things look from the golf club bar, though.
And now having to shut up shop again while the nobs are free to hunt and fish.
It is an organised sport.
Ah so pigeon racing carries on then. Good news. Begs the question, though, of which working class equivalents to grouse shooting that do need an exemption are for some strange reason not getting one from this Tory government.
A bit more preparation would have seen an incisive, coruscating, acute post from you.
As it is you're having a bit of a shocker.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the matter. I sense it might be a weathercock as to this government's real attitudes and priorities. A sign that the Red Wall should prepare to be betrayed. First in small ways (like this) but before long fundamentally and profoundly.
You are making the usual urban mistake of thinking that it is only "nobs" that shoot and fish. Silly prejudice, that is way beneath someone that normally writes very well thought out posts.
Yes, but who owns the land and who profits from renting it out for shooting?
Quite an interesting study here, if it so moves you.
I'm sure choirs provide immeasurable benefit to their participants (around 2m according to one study) but I'm not sure they've quantified the economic benefit.
Ah yes shootingfacts.co.uk, that impartial seeker of truth... The whole of the agricultural sector, including hunting as well as all crop and animal production, is worth a bit over £13bn, so I am calling bullshit on that claim.
Fair enough. What do you think it is?
I have no idea. But I know that it is not 15% of the agricultural sector. If I was being generous I could imagine it being 2% of the agricultural sector, so about £250mn, so the £2bn "estimate" would be out by a factor of eight. To be honest, if people get off on killing things then fair enough, it's not my cup of tea but whatever. It's just revealing that in the middle of the pandemic the government found time to schedule a high level meeting (albeit subsequently cancelled) in order to make sure that their wealthy donors aren't inconvenienced. At the same time as inviting the public to grass on their neighbours if they have a kids' birthday part in the back garden. Like with the Cummings episode, it speaks volumes about how the government creates a hierarchy of rights for the rich and powerful and responsibilities for everyone else.
Imagine if someone gave the bairns air rifles and told them to shoot at woodpigeons in the back gartden - party planning problem solved. That's the sort of comparison people will make.
And now having to shut up shop again while the nobs are free to hunt and fish.
It is an organised sport.
Ah so pigeon racing carries on then. Good news. Begs the question, though, of which working class equivalents to grouse shooting that do need an exemption are for some strange reason not getting one from this Tory government.
A bit more preparation would have seen an incisive, coruscating, acute post from you.
As it is you're having a bit of a shocker.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the matter. I sense it might be a weathercock as to this government's real attitudes and priorities. A sign that the Red Wall should prepare to be betrayed. First in small ways (like this) but before long fundamentally and profoundly.
You are making the usual urban mistake of thinking that it is only "nobs" that shoot and fish. Silly prejudice, that is way beneath someone that normally writes very well thought out posts.
Yes, but who owns the land and who profits from renting it out for shooting?
Lots of small businesses benefit from shooting and fishing, some in rural areas that have very delicate economies. To the average urbanite it is all about "nobs" though. Extreme prejudice against traditional country people is alive and kicking, sadly.
I had a very working class friend who enjoyed his pigeon shooting - I used to take his retriever out hunting (for fossils, so he was pretty useless with me, but he was a trained gundog all right).
It's the differential treatment with other sports which might grate with the public. As do the organised bloodsports per se. It's one thing to harvest/control potential vermin such as deer and partridge, and eat the results, but a couple of guns walking over the fields wouildn't come under the restrictions anyway.
Partridge are not vermin, they are game as are deer. As HYUFD has mentioned, other sports do have exemptions. As I have spent most of my life living in the countryside and with strong links to farming and rural communities, I really do wish people who clearly know so little about the subjects would do a little research before pontificating. The level of ignorance expressed, by an otherwise educated group of people is a little depressing.
The whole point about deer is that they don't have predators in the UK so undergo population booms with the consequent effect on the habitat. Ergo they are vermin and need to be controlled by shooting. You can call them game as well as you like. Many years ago I visited Rum and read up on the NCC's experiments there e.g. on the reforestation over decades and the impact of the deer on the natural woodland is very clear indeed. Indeed I gather that the shooting industry's idea of a reasonable population level is stillr ather higher than biological arguments would imply - it certainly was the last time I read into it.
I was being kind and assuming the same about partridge.
Edit: NB I am being positive about the shooting industry to the degree that they do a necessary job. But breeding and releasing? That's a different matter.
And burning heather on peatland is not ideal, either.
And now having to shut up shop again while the nobs are free to hunt and fish.
It is an organised sport.
Ah so pigeon racing carries on then. Good news. Begs the question, though, of which working class equivalents to grouse shooting that do need an exemption are for some strange reason not getting one from this Tory government.
A bit more preparation would have seen an incisive, coruscating, acute post from you.
As it is you're having a bit of a shocker.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the matter. I sense it might be a weathercock as to this government's real attitudes and priorities. A sign that the Red Wall should prepare to be betrayed. First in small ways (like this) but before long fundamentally and profoundly.
You are making the usual urban mistake of thinking that it is only "nobs" that shoot and fish. Silly prejudice, that is way beneath someone that normally writes very well thought out posts.
Yes, but who owns the land and who profits from renting it out for shooting?
Lots of small businesses benefit from shooting and fishing, some in rural areas that have very delicate economies. To the average urbanite it is all about "nobs" though. Extreme prejudice against traditional country people is alive and kicking, sadly.
I had a very working class friend who enjoyed his pigeon shooting - I used to take his retriever out hunting (for fossils, so he was pretty useless with me, but he was a trained gundog all right).
It's the differential treatment with other sports which might grate with the public. As do the organised bloodsports per se. It's one thing to harvest/control potential vermin such as deer and partridge, and eat the results, but a couple of guns walking over the fields wouildn't come under the restrictions anyway.
Partridge are not vermin, they are game as are deer. As HYUFD has mentioned, other sports do have exemptions. As I have spent most of my life living in the countryside and with strong links to farming and rural communities, I really do wish people who clearly know so little about the subjects would do a little research before pontificating. The level of ignorance expressed, by an otherwise educated group of people is a little depressing.
The whole point about deer is that they don't have predators in the UK so undergo population booms with the consequent effect on the habitat. Ergo they are vermin and need to be controlled by shooting. You can call them game as well as you like. Many years ago I visited Rum and read up on the NCC's experiments there e.g. on the reforestation over decades and the impact of the deer on the natural woodland is very clear indeed. Indeed I gather that the shooting industry's idea of a reasonable population level is stillr ather higher than biological arguments would imply - it certainly was the last time I read into it.
I was being kind and assuming the same about partridge.
Edit: NB I am being positive about the shooting industry to the degree that they do a necessary job. But breeding and releasing? That's a different matter.
Recommend that if you are open minded you look to the work done by the Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust in combination with the RSPB and the British Trust for Ornithology. The benefits to other wildlife from shooting sports is significant. With the exception of some bad practice in limited places, released game and the conservation efforts to provide the correct habitat greatly improve overall habitats and ecology.
And now having to shut up shop again while the nobs are free to hunt and fish.
It is an organised sport.
Ah so pigeon racing carries on then. Good news. Begs the question, though, of which working class equivalents to grouse shooting that do need an exemption are for some strange reason not getting one from this Tory government.
A bit more preparation would have seen an incisive, coruscating, acute post from you.
As it is you're having a bit of a shocker.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the matter. I sense it might be a weathercock as to this government's real attitudes and priorities. A sign that the Red Wall should prepare to be betrayed. First in small ways (like this) but before long fundamentally and profoundly.
You are making the usual urban mistake of thinking that it is only "nobs" that shoot and fish. Silly prejudice, that is way beneath someone that normally writes very well thought out posts.
Yes, but who owns the land and who profits from renting it out for shooting?
Quite an interesting study here, if it so moves you.
I'm sure choirs provide immeasurable benefit to their participants (around 2m according to one study) but I'm not sure they've quantified the economic benefit.
Ah yes shootingfacts.co.uk, that impartial seeker of truth... The whole of the agricultural sector, including hunting as well as all crop and animal production, is worth a bit over £13bn, so I am calling bullshit on that claim.
Fair enough. What do you think it is?
I have no idea. But I know that it is not 15% of the agricultural sector. If I was being generous I could imagine it being 2% of the agricultural sector, so about £250mn, so the £2bn "estimate" would be out by a factor of eight. To be honest, if people get off on killing things then fair enough, it's not my cup of tea but whatever. It's just revealing that in the middle of the pandemic the government found time to schedule a high level meeting (albeit subsequently cancelled) in order to make sure that their wealthy donors aren't inconvenienced. At the same time as inviting the public to grass on their neighbours if they have a kids' birthday part in the back garden. Like with the Cummings episode, it speaks volumes about how the government creates a hierarchy of rights for the rich and powerful and responsibilities for everyone else.
So you are guessing and not basing your comment on any understanding what so ever. Well done, great post.
Big change in the Scottish Hopsital number coming up
264** people were in hospital with confirmed COVID-19. ** This figure includes people who are no longer being treated for COVID-19. Tomorrow, this will be replaced with a measure that focuses on hospital in-patients with a more recent positive COVID-19 test.
If you assigned Chingford and Wood Green to the Tories next time round any model would show them having a good chance of increasing their majority too.
I think you mean Woodford Green? Wood Green (N22) is a different district entirely.
Current BBC headline: "Is there life floating in the clouds of Venus?"
Makes a welcome and interesting change from the usual diet of Covid and Brexit!
It's either yes or there's a hitherto unknown method of phosphine production lurking about. I got an E in my further organic chemistry module so won't be much use on this.
Big change in the Scottish Hopsital number coming up
264** people were in hospital with confirmed COVID-19. ** This figure includes people who are no longer being treated for COVID-19. Tomorrow, this will be replaced with a measure that focuses on hospital in-patients with a more recent positive COVID-19 test.
That's good, it was the same kind of inconsistency with the England death stats that needed to be fixed. As 4 nations all of this should be standardised.
If you assigned Chingford and Wood Green to the Tories next time round any model would show them having a good chance of increasing their majority too.
I think you mean Woodford Green? Wood Green (N22) is a different district entirely.
Big change in the Scottish Hopsital number coming up
264** people were in hospital with confirmed COVID-19. ** This figure includes people who are no longer being treated for COVID-19. Tomorrow, this will be replaced with a measure that focuses on hospital in-patients with a more recent positive COVID-19 test.
So today the Government have finally picked up oddness of the Scottish Covid hospital figures, and they have written to all GPs telling them to open up their surgeries and start seeing poeple again.
If you assigned Chingford and Wood Green to the Tories next time round any model would show them having a good chance of increasing their majority too.
I think you mean Woodford Green? Wood Green (N22) is a different district entirely.
I mean the quiet man's constituency
Ha ha, yes that's Chingford and WoodFORD Green –– it will be a cold day in Hell when IDS gets elected in Wood Green.
And now having to shut up shop again while the nobs are free to hunt and fish.
It is an organised sport.
Ah so pigeon racing carries on then. Good news. Begs the question, though, of which working class equivalents to grouse shooting that do need an exemption are for some strange reason not getting one from this Tory government.
A bit more preparation would have seen an incisive, coruscating, acute post from you.
As it is you're having a bit of a shocker.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the matter. I sense it might be a weathercock as to this government's real attitudes and priorities. A sign that the Red Wall should prepare to be betrayed. First in small ways (like this) but before long fundamentally and profoundly.
You are making the usual urban mistake of thinking that it is only "nobs" that shoot and fish. Silly prejudice, that is way beneath someone that normally writes very well thought out posts.
Yes, but who owns the land and who profits from renting it out for shooting?
Lots of small businesses benefit from shooting and fishing, some in rural areas that have very delicate economies. To the average urbanite it is all about "nobs" though. Extreme prejudice against traditional country people is alive and kicking, sadly.
I had a very working class friend who enjoyed his pigeon shooting - I used to take his retriever out hunting (for fossils, so he was pretty useless with me, but he was a trained gundog all right).
It's the differential treatment with other sports which might grate with the public. As do the organised bloodsports per se. It's one thing to harvest/control potential vermin such as deer and partridge, and eat the results, but a couple of guns walking over the fields wouildn't come under the restrictions anyway.
There is no differential treatment, all organised outdoor sports are included.
Are partridge vermin? They may eat a bit of corn, but they wouldn't be there in the numbers for anyone to notice if they weren't bred and put out to be shot, I don't think.
I'm more familiar with pheasant - they did use to be bred and put out to be shot next to where I live. Rather unkind. Much less uneasy with a more natural population. Not so familair with partridge - always assumed a natural pest species in the south.
Ideally those birds shot would be eaten but I accept that this does not always happen to every bird. Still, if you pop into your local butcher you will see plenty of game. Same with some restaurants.
I know. I eat the stuff! (from the local community shop, as it happens.)
I bloody love eating game i have it as much as possible. Perhaps @OnlyLivingBoy should give it a try as it sounds like he is unaware of the fact that most people eat the stuff they shoot.
And now having to shut up shop again while the nobs are free to hunt and fish.
It is an organised sport.
Ah so pigeon racing carries on then. Good news. Begs the question, though, of which working class equivalents to grouse shooting that do need an exemption are for some strange reason not getting one from this Tory government.
A bit more preparation would have seen an incisive, coruscating, acute post from you.
As it is you're having a bit of a shocker.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the matter. I sense it might be a weathercock as to this government's real attitudes and priorities. A sign that the Red Wall should prepare to be betrayed. First in small ways (like this) but before long fundamentally and profoundly.
You are making the usual urban mistake of thinking that it is only "nobs" that shoot and fish. Silly prejudice, that is way beneath someone that normally writes very well thought out posts.
Yes, but who owns the land and who profits from renting it out for shooting?
Quite an interesting study here, if it so moves you.
I'm sure choirs provide immeasurable benefit to their participants (around 2m according to one study) but I'm not sure they've quantified the economic benefit.
Ah yes shootingfacts.co.uk, that impartial seeker of truth... The whole of the agricultural sector, including hunting as well as all crop and animal production, is worth a bit over £13bn, so I am calling bullshit on that claim.
Fair enough. What do you think it is?
I have no idea. But I know that it is not 15% of the agricultural sector. If I was being generous I could imagine it being 2% of the agricultural sector, so about £250mn, so the £2bn "estimate" would be out by a factor of eight. To be honest, if people get off on killing things then fair enough, it's not my cup of tea but whatever. It's just revealing that in the middle of the pandemic the government found time to schedule a high level meeting (albeit subsequently cancelled) in order to make sure that their wealthy donors aren't inconvenienced. At the same time as inviting the public to grass on their neighbours if they have a kids' birthday part in the back garden. Like with the Cummings episode, it speaks volumes about how the government creates a hierarchy of rights for the rich and powerful and responsibilities for everyone else.
So you are guessing and not basing your comment on any understanding what so ever. Well done, great post.
No, I am basing it on the fact that the whole agricultural sector (that is, every farm, every fishing boat, every herd of cattle, the entire cereal harvest, the whole forestry sector, chicken and egg production, etc etc) adds just over £13bn to GDP. I am using that fact to point out that the claim that one small sliver of the agricultural sector is worth £2bn is ludicrous. In fact, as far as I can see I am the only person who has brought any credible facts to bear in this discussion. So yes, it is a great post, thanks.
Government admits to the NI Select Committee that the EU has been working in good faith ! But is going around the media saying the opposite . They really a bunch of corrupt lying chancers.
If the bill is rejected outright by the Commons I expect so. If the bill is rejected by the unelected Lords then no, definitely not.
My expectation is the bill will get through, albeit amended similar to the proposed Neill amendment.
No way does it get through the lords I don; think
I think it will get through the Lords amended with something like the Neill amendment. I just don't think the Government is keen to concede that yet because if they do it will no doubt be then asked for more, but I expect they'll concede something like that down the track as a "compromise".
This feels like the stupidity around Trump's migrant caravan in 2018. People aren't paying attention to Three Men in A Boat - Syrian Refugee Edition because the government is trying to self-destruct and the national tracing system already appears to have done so.
Current BBC headline: "Is there life floating in the clouds of Venus?"
Makes a welcome and interesting change from the usual diet of Covid and Brexit!
It's either yes or there's a hitherto unknown method of phosphine production lurking about. I got an E in my further organic chemistry module so won't be much use on this.
For a certain kind of nerd, that's more exciting than boring old life.
I absolutely do not support Boris breaking the treaty but if anything really angers me it is mps constantly shouting out while he is presenting his case
I absolutely do not support Boris breaking the treaty but if anything really angers me it is mps constantly shouting out while he is presenting his case
I do not support cold blooded murder, but I really object to people raising the hue and cry while the act is in progress.
Or, to put it another way, bugger civility while lawbreaking is in process.
Apparently more audio taped conversations between Trump and Woodward are due to be released at midday eastern time on CNN so expect an imminent Trump twitter meltdown .
I absolutely do not support Boris breaking the treaty but if anything really angers me it is mps constantly shouting out while he is presenting his case
I do not support cold blooded murder, but I really object to people raising the hue and cry while the act is in progress.
Or, to put it another way, bugger civility while lawbreaking is in process.
Shouting down anyone you disagree with is unacceptable
I absolutely do not support Boris breaking the treaty but if anything really angers me it is mps constantly shouting out while he is presenting his case
I do not support cold blooded murder, but I really object to people raising the hue and cry while the act is in progress.
Or, to put it another way, bugger civility while lawbreaking is in process.
Shouting down anyone you disagree with is unacceptable
Normally I'd agree, but this sort of constitutional vandalism does not deserve respect.
Boris saying if these powers were exercised that they would introduce a Statutory Instrument on which a vote would be held, how is that any different to the Neill Amendment?
And now having to shut up shop again while the nobs are free to hunt and fish.
It is an organised sport.
Ah so pigeon racing carries on then. Good news. Begs the question, though, of which working class equivalents to grouse shooting that do need an exemption are for some strange reason not getting one from this Tory government.
A bit more preparation would have seen an incisive, coruscating, acute post from you.
As it is you're having a bit of a shocker.
I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the matter. I sense it might be a weathercock as to this government's real attitudes and priorities. A sign that the Red Wall should prepare to be betrayed. First in small ways (like this) but before long fundamentally and profoundly.
You are making the usual urban mistake of thinking that it is only "nobs" that shoot and fish. Silly prejudice, that is way beneath someone that normally writes very well thought out posts.
Yes, but who owns the land and who profits from renting it out for shooting?
Quite an interesting study here, if it so moves you.
I'm sure choirs provide immeasurable benefit to their participants (around 2m according to one study) but I'm not sure they've quantified the economic benefit.
Ah yes shootingfacts.co.uk, that impartial seeker of truth... The whole of the agricultural sector, including hunting as well as all crop and animal production, is worth a bit over £13bn, so I am calling bullshit on that claim.
Fair enough. What do you think it is?
I have no idea. But I know that it is not 15% of the agricultural sector. If I was being generous I could imagine it being 2% of the agricultural sector, so about £250mn, so the £2bn "estimate" would be out by a factor of eight. To be honest, if people get off on killing things then fair enough, it's not my cup of tea but whatever. It's just revealing that in the middle of the pandemic the government found time to schedule a high level meeting (albeit subsequently cancelled) in order to make sure that their wealthy donors aren't inconvenienced. At the same time as inviting the public to grass on their neighbours if they have a kids' birthday part in the back garden. Like with the Cummings episode, it speaks volumes about how the government creates a hierarchy of rights for the rich and powerful and responsibilities for everyone else.
So you are guessing and not basing your comment on any understanding what so ever. Well done, great post.
No, I am basing it on the fact that the whole agricultural sector (that is, every farm, every fishing boat, every herd of cattle, the entire cereal harvest, the whole forestry sector, chicken and egg production, etc etc) adds just over £13bn to GDP. I am using that fact to point out that the claim that one small sliver of the agricultural sector is worth £2bn is ludicrous. In fact, as far as I can see I am the only person who has brought any credible facts to bear in this discussion. So yes, it is a great post, thanks.
The only fact that is apparent (other than you looked up what the UK agriculture sector contributes) is that you know fuck all about the subject you are pontificating on and are debating on a subject that you know as much about as I do about particle physics. The 2Bn is not ludicrous because it includes factors that will not be included in the agriculture figure that you got from Google, such as shops that supply clothing and equipment, B&Bs, hotels, restaurants etc., many of which in places like N Yorks, the West Country and Scottish highlands rely heavily on the very upmarket end of the shooting community to spend very large sums of money (oh no, the hated toffs and rich city types!). So basically, you are allowing your nasty little urban prejudice against people that earn their living in these areas to motivate your ignorant post. So no, it is a shit post. Stick to things you know a little about, then you will look less ignorant.
It surprises me that there are any Tory MPs left who have not yet realised that Geoff Cox has a sole aim from his time in politics: self promotion for the benefit of his private Chambers.
Apparently a few have worked out they might still need a career after this Government falls
Comments
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-france-hemp-mask/from-field-to-compost-french-firm-develops-hemp-face-masks-idUKKBN262212
To be seen on the next XR outting.
Another key point is ‘tests sent out’ v ‘tests done’
https://www.ricardofernholz.com/election/
Then there is AG Barr's totally unbiased election fraud report to come.
All to be reported on by the credulous American media.
Considering going long on Trump to ride the wave.
This year you get thrown out for not opposing the same Withdrawal Agreement
Simples
Seems... a little on the high side.
I was being kind and assuming the same about partridge.
Edit: NB I am being positive about the shooting industry to the degree that they do a necessary job. But breeding and releasing? That's a different matter.
To be honest, if people get off on killing things then fair enough, it's not my cup of tea but whatever. It's just revealing that in the middle of the pandemic the government found time to schedule a high level meeting (albeit subsequently cancelled) in order to make sure that their wealthy donors aren't inconvenienced. At the same time as inviting the public to grass on their neighbours if they have a kids' birthday part in the back garden.
Like with the Cummings episode, it speaks volumes about how the government creates a hierarchy of rights for the rich and powerful and responsibilities for everyone else.
My current theory is that the government has stopped investing in PCR based testing and processing in favour of the rapid test machines but they've switched with poor timing with the latter not delivering as quickly as expected and PCR capacity now fixed due to investment in new capacity there being cut.
I don't believe it, but if this isn't the time...
Any assignment of both Arizona & Florida to the GOP thereby necessarily skews the necessary national data to overly artificially lower Biden's chances.
Tbh I'm surprised Biden's chances are still as high as 44% in the scenario he wins neither. It basically requires a perfect path through the rest of the country against a known roughly nationally poor ceiling.
The comparison with Chingford was because the sunbelt is trending Dem, like London is broadly trending Labour.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/sep/14/how-we-made-the-human-centipede
Makes a welcome and interesting change from the usual diet of Covid and Brexit!
So, you know, there are polls and polls.
264** people were in hospital with confirmed COVID-19.
** This figure includes people who are no longer being treated for COVID-19. Tomorrow, this will be replaced with a measure that focuses on hospital in-patients with a more recent positive COVID-19 test.
Two more things I have been right on.
Not that far away...
https://twitter.com/i/events/1305494187236708352?s=20
If the bill is rejected outright by the Commons I expect so.
If the bill is rejected by the unelected Lords then no, definitely not.
My expectation is the bill will get through, albeit amended similar to the proposed Neill amendment.
"Due to an ongoing issue with Microsoft Azure, we are currently unable to update the data."
Should always use AWS...
2. The French language?
"Can only be solved with goodwill and common sense".
That's torn it.
Or, to put it another way, bugger civility while lawbreaking is in process.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/03/french-reporter-who-joined-police-exposes-racism-and-violence-valentin-gendrot
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1305533433200943111?s=21
Might make it through the Commons. Won't make it through the Lords
A charter more sacred than any in these islands...
the point of the amendment is it only applies after the law has been broken.