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  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Andy_JS said:

    "The problem is this: if a basic statement of truth like “1+1=2” is completely indifferent to the location in which it is uttered, if it remains true whether you like it or not, if it stays true no matter whether the majority of the population decide they like it or not, then universal truth can begin to look like the perfect expression of colonialism.

    You may think this is madness, and, of course, it is. But nonetheless, the reason some say that science and maths require decolonising is not because there have been too many white people teaching it, but for the much deeper reason that the very concept of science has an inbuilt resistance to the idea that African science may be a different kind of thing, and come up with different conclusions, to European science."

    https://unherd.com/2020/06/the-danger-of-human-categories/

    Does anyone actually believe that?
  • Bradley's seat is the kind of seat Labour have basically no hope of winning back and should give up on.

    It's been slowly swinging away since 2001.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Andy_JS said:

    "The problem is this: if a basic statement of truth like “1+1=2” is completely indifferent to the location in which it is uttered, if it remains true whether you like it or not, if it stays true no matter whether the majority of the population decide they like it or not, then universal truth can begin to look like the perfect expression of colonialism.

    You may think this is madness, and, of course, it is. But nonetheless, the reason some say that science and maths require decolonising is not because there have been too many white people teaching it, but for the much deeper reason that the very concept of science has an inbuilt resistance to the idea that African science may be a different kind of thing, and come up with different conclusions, to European science."

    https://unherd.com/2020/06/the-danger-of-human-categories/

    Does anyone actually believe that?
    Certainly some post-modern/deconstructionist nonsense thinkers out there that do.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    FF43 said:

    The Sage report is pretty clear. The only really effective interventions are not meeting at all, two metre distancing and cleaning hygiene. Masks, screens etc and shortening the time of interaction have some benefits, but not to the same degree.


    Major omissions not to assess drinking Dettol and sticking a torch up your arse.
    Well if it works for you Sandy :wink:

    But is it separately, sequentially or simultaneously ?
    It has to be simultaneous. Photo-catalysis is key to getting the Dettol to work.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Andy_JS said:

    "The problem is this: if a basic statement of truth like “1+1=2” is completely indifferent to the location in which it is uttered, if it remains true whether you like it or not, if it stays true no matter whether the majority of the population decide they like it or not, then universal truth can begin to look like the perfect expression of colonialism.

    You may think this is madness, and, of course, it is. But nonetheless, the reason some say that science and maths require decolonising is not because there have been too many white people teaching it, but for the much deeper reason that the very concept of science has an inbuilt resistance to the idea that African science may be a different kind of thing, and come up with different conclusions, to European science."

    https://unherd.com/2020/06/the-danger-of-human-categories/

    "Instead, the resolution between such categorically-different life experiences can only be achieved through the expression of force. Nominalism leads to Nietzsche.
    When there is nothing to bind us together, the game of life is nothing more than one big power play. Without these big binding overarching ideas like humanity and truth — and yes, perhaps even God — all we have left is the question of who is strong and who is weak."

    Wow. Strong stuff.

    Boy is he in trouble when the mob find out.

    Incidently, Lawrence Fox outlined something similar although more personal and less erudite in Spectator this week.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Floater said:

    What a boring year...........................

    Oh and a 7.4 Earthquake in Mexico too
    Are you sure this tweet is accurate?
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    Bradley's seat is the kind of seat Labour have basically no hope of winning back and should give up on.

    It's been slowly swinging away since 2001.

    Agreed - its like the two Brighton seats and Hove for CON - we (CON) will never win there again.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    whunter said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Quote from Ben Bradley, Tory MP for Mansfield on his Facebook page.

    "If Black Lives Matter is a cry for help from communities who feel that they don't have a fair chance in life, then can the 'White Lives Matter' or 'All Lives Matter' reaction not be the same? Why the assumed negative intent? Why is it fine one way, but racist the other way?
    I don't condone the banner, I think it's deeply unhelpful and equally divisive, but it's most likely not about racism. It's simply pointing out that there are some very poor white communities who statistically have some of the worst outcomes in our country - in places like Burnley actually, or Mansfield - which we don't talk about enough or deal with enough. It's literally exactly the same argument as those supporting BLM. It's pointing out that poor white girls are being groomed for sexual abuse and poor white lads are failing at school. That is equally as valid and important.
    Therein lies the inequality that BLM creates... the more were pushed to identify ourselves as 'black' or 'white' the more the colour of our skin becomes an issue. The more it sits at the forefront of people's minds. The right thing to do is to deal with inequalities wherever we find them, not to rank the inequalities in a false order of priority and set people against each other."

    https://www.facebook.com/1361286460616795/posts/3114412391970851/

    Ben Bradley is saying what many people think, unlike the liberal elites posting on here, including many Brexiteers. It is quite amusing, as someone who voted remain, to see this play itself out.
    Nobody doubts it's what many people think. People think all sorts of drivel. People are like that.
    The future will be better:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/most-wished-for/books

    People want to learn and understand.

    And how about 'Most Bought'? Or that greatest of sordid secrets, 'Most Read' and 'Most Enjoyed'?
    Most read non fiction:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/charts/2020-06-14/mostread/nonfiction?ref=chrt_bk_dx_intra_nf_rd

    Top five

    Why I’m No Longer Talking to White People About Race
    Becoming BY MICHELLE OBAMA
    Natives Race & Class in the ruins of the Empire
    Sapiens
    Me and White Supremacy

    Ive only read Sapiens and thoroughly recommend it. So 3 books specifically about race, 1 by the most popular black lady in the world, and the fifth about the history and future of all human kind.

    Makes my point.

    Sapiens is good. Homo Deus isn't anything like as good.
    Are you going to give "Why I'm No Longer Talking To White People About Race" a go?

    It's meant to be quite powerful.
    It's very good.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Sky News pointed out that 'The bustle is coming back' is not a prediction of the next fashion trend.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Ave_it said:

    Bradley's seat is the kind of seat Labour have basically no hope of winning back and should give up on.

    It's been slowly swinging away since 2001.

    Agreed - its like the two Brighton seats and Hove for CON - we (CON) will never win there again.
    How about we slip the boundary commission a few brown envelopes?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,240

    Sky News pointed out that 'The bustle is coming back' is not a prediction of the next fashion trend.

    Shame. It would help with the residual social distancing.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Interesting: not exactly a rebellion, as such - it was nominally a free vote - but distinguished PBer the hon. member for Newcastle-under-Lyme seems to have strayed a little off-piste all the same:

    https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/800
  • whunterwhunter Posts: 60
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    whunter said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Quote from Ben Bradley, Tory MP for Mansfield on his Facebook page.

    "If Black Lives Matter is a cry for help from communities who feel that they don't have a fair chance in life, then can the 'White Lives Matter' or 'All Lives Matter' reaction not be the same? Why the assumed negative intent? Why is it fine one way, but racist the other way?
    I don't condone the banner, I think it's deeply unhelpful and equally divisive, but it's most likely not about racism. It's simply pointing out that there are some very poor white communities who statistically have some of the worst outcomes in our country - in places like Burnley actually, or Mansfield - which we don't talk about enough or deal with enough. It's literally exactly the same argument as those supporting BLM. It's pointing out that poor white girls are being groomed for sexual abuse and poor white lads are failing at school. That is equally as valid and important.
    Therein lies the inequality that BLM creates... the more were pushed to identify ourselves as 'black' or 'white' the more the colour of our skin becomes an issue. The more it sits at the forefront of people's minds. The right thing to do is to deal with inequalities wherever we find them, not to rank the inequalities in a false order of priority and set people against each other."

    https://www.facebook.com/1361286460616795/posts/3114412391970851/

    Ben Bradley is saying what many people think, unlike the liberal elites posting on here, including many Brexiteers. It is quite amusing, as someone who voted remain, to see this play itself out.
    Nobody doubts it's what many people think. People think all sorts of drivel. People are like that.
    The future will be better:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/most-wished-for/books

    People want to learn and understand.

    And how about 'Most Bought'? Or that greatest of sordid secrets, 'Most Read' and 'Most Enjoyed'?
    Most read non fiction:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/charts/2020-06-14/mostread/nonfiction?ref=chrt_bk_dx_intra_nf_rd

    Top five

    Why I’m No Longer Talking to White People About Race
    Becoming BY MICHELLE OBAMA
    Natives Race & Class in the ruins of the Empire
    Sapiens
    Me and White Supremacy

    Ive only read Sapiens and thoroughly recommend it. So 3 books specifically about race, 1 by the most popular black lady in the world, and the fifth about the history and future of all human kind.

    Makes my point.

    Most bought isn't the same as most read.

    And my library proves it.
    This is most read rather than most bought - guessing they calculate that from kindles but dont know. Most bought has 4/5 books specifically about race, including the 3 in most read, the fifth is about feminism.

    The future is going to have people with better understanding of these issues than we have today.
    I think so too.
    The popularity of woke polemics on the amazon 'most wished' list is not good evidence of the "enlightenment" of the white working class.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    Interesting: not exactly a rebellion, as such - it was nominally a free vote - but distinguished PBer the hon. member for Newcastle-under-Lyme seems to have strayed a little off-piste all the same:

    https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/800

    The Clown Possse in Downing Street slapped BoZo in the face with another pie, and poured whitewash down Moggy's trousers...

    https://twitter.com/blairsupporter/status/1275543476617252866
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    edited June 2020

    Bradley's seat is the kind of seat Labour have basically no hope of winning back and should give up on.

    It's been slowly swinging away since 2001.

    Mansfield is a curious case. Ultra-marginal in the 80s. A 10.6% (!) swing to Labour in 92 made it safe. It's been drifting back since 2001.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Interesting: not exactly a rebellion, as such - it was nominally a free vote - but distinguished PBer the hon. member for Newcastle-under-Lyme seems to have strayed a little off-piste all the same:

    https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/800

    AIUI Bryant’s amendment was to stop MPs debating complaints in the house - which would have allowed them to name complainants under Parliamentary privilege. I think our hon. Member was on the side of the angels on this one.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Unlike the pubs, this thread has been locked down
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    dixiedean said:

    Bradley's seat is the kind of seat Labour have basically no hope of winning back and should give up on.

    It's been slowly swinging away since 2001.

    Mansfield is a curious case. Ultra-marginal in the 80s. A 10.6% (!) swing to Labour in 92 made it safe. It's been drifting back since 2001.
    In the old days (1979 and prior) it was traditionally safe for LAB.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    Interesting: not exactly a rebellion, as such - it was nominally a free vote - but distinguished PBer the hon. member for Newcastle-under-Lyme seems to have strayed a little off-piste all the same:

    https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/800

    AIUI Bryant’s amendment was to stop MPs debating complaints in the house - which would have allowed them to name complainants under Parliamentary privilege. I think our hon. Member was on the side of the angels on this one.
    Yes. Well played Mr. Price.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Interesting: not exactly a rebellion, as such - it was nominally a free vote - but distinguished PBer the hon. member for Newcastle-under-Lyme seems to have strayed a little off-piste all the same:

    https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/800

    AIUI Bryant’s amendment was to stop MPs debating complaints in the house - which would have allowed them to name complainants under Parliamentary privilege. I think our hon. Member was on the side of the angels on this one.
    Yes, I think so too. However, the list of those fellow Tory MPs who took the same view suggests it might not have been an entirely career-enhancing move in the short term at least.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    whunter said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Quote from Ben Bradley, Tory MP for Mansfield on his Facebook page.

    "If Black Lives Matter is a cry for help from communities who feel that they don't have a fair chance in life, then can the 'White Lives Matter' or 'All Lives Matter' reaction not be the same? Why the assumed negative intent? Why is it fine one way, but racist the other way?
    I don't condone the banner, I think it's deeply unhelpful and equally divisive, but it's most likely not about racism. It's simply pointing out that there are some very poor white communities who statistically have some of the worst outcomes in our country - in places like Burnley actually, or Mansfield - which we don't talk about enough or deal with enough. It's literally exactly the same argument as those supporting BLM. It's pointing out that poor white girls are being groomed for sexual abuse and poor white lads are failing at school. That is equally as valid and important.
    Therein lies the inequality that BLM creates... the more were pushed to identify ourselves as 'black' or 'white' the more the colour of our skin becomes an issue. The more it sits at the forefront of people's minds. The right thing to do is to deal with inequalities wherever we find them, not to rank the inequalities in a false order of priority and set people against each other."

    https://www.facebook.com/1361286460616795/posts/3114412391970851/

    Ben Bradley is saying what many people think, unlike the liberal elites posting on here, including many Brexiteers. It is quite amusing, as someone who voted remain, to see this play itself out.
    Nobody doubts it's what many people think. People think all sorts of drivel. People are like that.
    The future will be better:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/most-wished-for/books

    People want to learn and understand.

    And how about 'Most Bought'? Or that greatest of sordid secrets, 'Most Read' and 'Most Enjoyed'?
    Most read non fiction:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/charts/2020-06-14/mostread/nonfiction?ref=chrt_bk_dx_intra_nf_rd

    Top five

    Why I’m No Longer Talking to White People About Race
    Becoming BY MICHELLE OBAMA
    Natives Race & Class in the ruins of the Empire
    Sapiens
    Me and White Supremacy

    Ive only read Sapiens and thoroughly recommend it. So 3 books specifically about race, 1 by the most popular black lady in the world, and the fifth about the history and future of

    whunter said:

    Tres said:

    whunter said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Quote from Ben Bradley, Tory MP for Mansfield on his Facebook page.

    "If Black Lives Matter is a cry for help from communities who feel that they don't have a fair chance in life, then can the 'White Lives Matter' or 'All Lives Matter' reaction not be the same? Why the assumed negative intent? Why is it fine one way, but racist the other way?
    I don't condone the banner, I think it's deeply unhelpful and equally divisive, but it's most likely not about racism. It's simply pointing out that there are some very poor white communities who statistically have some of the worst outcomes in our country - in places like Burnley actually, or Mansfield - which we don't talk about enough or deal with enough. It's literally exactly the same argument as those supporting BLM. It's pointing out that poor white girls are being groomed for sexual abuse and poor white lads are failing at school. That is equally as valid and important.
    Therein lies the inequality that BLM creates... the more were pushed to identify ourselves as 'black' or 'white' the more the colour of our skin becomes an issue. The more it sits at the forefront of people's minds. The right thing to do is to deal with inequalities wherever we find them, not to rank the inequalities in a false order of priority and set people against each other."

    https://www.facebook.com/1361286460616795/posts/3114412391970851/

    Ben Bradley is saying what many people think, unlike the liberal elites posting on here, including many Brexiteers. It is quite amusing, as someone who voted remain, to see this play itself out.
    Ben Bradley should know better. The spirit of Terry Dicks lives on in the Conservative Party.
    You liberal elites just don't get it.
    Let's look at his record.

    He had to make an apology to Jeremy Corbyn for accusing him of selling secrets to Communist spies.

    His response to the Free Meals for Children over the summer row was to demand restrictions to stop parents abusing the largesse.

    Shortly after that, he resigned as a PPS to spend more time with his family.

    Now he's waded into another controversial issue which needs to be defused not enflamed.

    If his whip isn't changing the password on every social media account the man has at this very minute, something has gone horribly wrong.
    2017 Con +18.4%
    2019 Con +17.3%

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansfield_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
    Has anyone else ever seen such a big increase in their party's vote share ?

    And this in Mansfield - a notorious shithole not some demographically gentrifying landscape prettifying place like Bassetlaw or Bolsover.

    Ben Bradley must be a contender for electoral titan of this age, no of ANY age.

    A notorious shithole?

    You are often on here touting it as your vision for Britain.


  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    ...

    At least the PB Fantasy Football league table is looking a bit better now...

    The leader of a League I am in was no1 in the world before today's matches
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600
    dixiedean said:

    Bradley's seat is the kind of seat Labour have basically no hope of winning back and should give up on.

    It's been slowly swinging away since 2001.

    Mansfield is a curious case. Ultra-marginal in the 80s. A 10.6% (!) swing to Labour in 92 made it safe. It's been drifting back since 2001.
    It's the sort of seat where people almost seem to "lose their temper" with whichever party the feel has drifted away from their values, causing a big swing to take place. That was the Tories in the 1990s and Labour now.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Ave_it said:

    Bradley's seat is the kind of seat Labour have basically no hope of winning back and should give up on.

    It's been slowly swinging away since 2001.

    Agreed - its like the two Brighton seats and Hove for CON - we (CON) will never win there again.
    What is it about Mansfield in particular? I mean I’m from that neck of the woods, albeit long ago. The idea that it’s a Tory seat is beyond bizarre.
This discussion has been closed.