I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid
He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support
However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July
Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.
She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris
What's this "feart" business I keep seeing regarding Sturgeon?
It's implying that rather than courageously following BJ's course, Sturgeon has been supinely making her own mind up. It's almost like she's taken a knee to the welfare of Scotland!
Would it be distasteful to suggest she's put a knee on the neck of the Scottish economy?
Given the Scottish summer ends earlier than the English one, staying shut for longer is going to do tremendously more damage to Scottish summer-based seasonal businesses than the damage already inflicted to English ones.
what is this Scottish summer of which you speak????
Ducks and runs
No need to duck. Actually, May and June, and September are perhaps the best times in the Highlands and Islands - July and August often being wet and midgy.
In all seriousness - I have visited the highlands a couple of times in August - We had some rain but mainly it was never anything approaching warm.
But the views.......
Might give it a try next May or June then - might be cheaper too :-)
There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:
'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.
That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.
From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'
Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
I look forward to your trenchant criticism of BJ when he once again obstructs Indy Ref 2 after next year's Holyrood election. Of course it might tip him over the edge into rediscovering his balls and his honour, but the precedents aren't good.
You know I support indy2 if the SNP win Holyrood on a manifesto commitment
But they already have, in conjunction with the Scots Greens, AND a majority of the Scots seats at Westminster ...
So what, the Tories won a majority at the last UK general election on a manifesto commitment of no indyref2 for a generation.
Indyref2 therefore requires a Starmer led government at Westminster in 2024 as well as another nationalist majority at Holyrood next year
I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid
He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support
However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July
Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.
She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris
What's this "feart" business I keep seeing regarding Sturgeon?
It's implying that rather than courageously following BJ's course, Sturgeon has been supinely making her own mind up. It's almost like she's taken a knee to the welfare of Scotland!
And yet when she made similar decisions to "England" on the same day (and necessarily earlier in the day, so as not to clash with the "UK"/"England" press conference at 5pm, she was decried by PBTories and their ilk in the media for trying to steal Mr Johnson's thunder. Poor lady can't win.
'Poor lady can't win.'
Except in Scotland evidently.
Though one of the more entertaining Unionist rage memes (there are so many!) is about English progressives praising and giving credit to Sturgeon.
Genuine unionists like to leave the raging to you nationalists; you are so much better at it. You only have to look at virtually every post of Malcolmg, it is hilarious, you can almost imagine him red in the face at the hated English.
Perhaps as Nationalist is such a nasty word, with pretty bad connotations, particularly in relation to racism, maybe you should rename it the Scottish Gammonist Party
"There are 185 billion reasons why no politician should consider a lockdown again The cost of saving 50,000 lives was dwarfed by the economic hit, according to analysis using Nice spending guidelines
The problem with that (from the article, I haven't read the source paper/report) is that it seems to assume no economic costs without lockdown. Even at the level of deaths we've had, people are not necessarily rushing back to business as usual. Add more deaths with no enforced lockdown and people would be changing behaviours anyway (look at Sweden, with much less enforced). If the report/paper also fails to estimate the economic hit under a no lockdown scenario then it's somewhat lacking.
(Note, I don't necessarily disagree with the conclusion - lockdown is harsh medicine and we may look back in future years and decide it was not the best course, but I do still think it was the right thing to do at the time with the information available).
I agree with this, which is why I think it unlikely that there will be a blanket lockdown for subsequent waves. We now know so much more about the disease than 4 months ago.
The latest outbreak in a Westphalian "Meat" Processing plant has now spread from Gütersloh to the neighbouring district of Warendorf , halfway to the city of Münster. How this develops and is dealt with could be a key indicator of how the politicians cope with the seoond wave.
Incidentally, you’d have thought the government would have the guidance on pub reopening actually published on the day Boris announces it all. I mean that’s not too much to expect is it?
As far as my daughter can make out, the table service will make it very hard to make money. She’s now trying to work out how she can make it work in practice. If she can. Having been a bit hopeful the last few days she is now depressed again.
What happens, for instance, if there are a lot of drinkers, socially distanced outside, it suddenly rains and they come inside? Or is she meant to force them to stay outside? And when inside she has to allow them 20 mins to finish their drinks anyway.
Mr. L, sorry to hear about your daughter's situation, but at least she knew it was a stepping stone and had a saving mentality. Also, depending on her age/experience it could be handy have a recent reference when applying for other stuff.
Indeed and thanks. She has had a difficult time since graduating and this is a blow.
My sympathies to your daughter. My sons are facing the same issues.
Last LD members poll was Davey 52%, Moran 24% and Cooper 9%
I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid
He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support
However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July
Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.
She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris
What's this "feart" business I keep seeing regarding Sturgeon?
It's implying that rather than courageously following BJ's course, Sturgeon has been supinely making her own mind up. It's almost like she's taken a knee to the welfare of Scotland!
Would it be distasteful to suggest she's put a knee on the neck of the Scottish economy?
Given the Scottish summer ends earlier than the English one, staying shut for longer is going to do tremendously more damage to Scottish summer-based seasonal businesses than the damage already inflicted to English ones.
what is this Scottish summer of which you speak????
Ducks and runs
No need to duck. Actually, May and June, and September are perhaps the best times in the Highlands and Islands - July and August often being wet and midgy.
In all seriousness - I have visited the highlands a couple of times in August - We had some rain but mainly it was never anything approaching warm.
But the views.......
Might give it a try next May or June then - might be cheaper too :-)
It would also depend what you want to see, obviously. For instance if you wanted machair flowers in the Outer Isles you'd want to go in the spring - likewise birds breeding on Orkney [DYOR for exactt timings].
Incidentally, you’d have thought the government would have the guidance on pub reopening actually published on the day Boris announces it all. I mean that’s not too much to expect is it?
As far as my daughter can make out, the table service will make it very hard to make money. She’s now trying to work out how she can make it work in practice. If she can. Having been a bit hopeful the last few days she is now depressed again.
What happens, for instance, if there are a lot of drinkers, socially distanced outside, it suddenly rains and they come inside? Or is she meant to force them to stay outside? And when inside she has to allow them 20 mins to finish their drinks anyway.
Umbrellas for the unlucky sods who draw the short straw and can't come in?
I think we are in a bit of a glass house on that front. It makes me cringe when Brexiteers try to pompously lecture Europeans on democracy. Us with an hereditary head of state, an appointed/hereditary legislative chamber, a head of government that is elected by a selectorate and FPTP. Have I missed anything?
I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid
He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support
However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July
Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.
She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris
What's this "feart" business I keep seeing regarding Sturgeon?
It's implying that rather than courageously following BJ's course, Sturgeon has been supinely making her own mind up. It's almost like she's taken a knee to the welfare of Scotland!
And yet when she made similar decisions to "England" on the same day (and necessarily earlier in the day, so as not to clash with the "UK"/"England" press conference at 5pm, she was decried by PBTories and their ilk in the media for trying to steal Mr Johnson's thunder. Poor lady can't win.
'Poor lady can't win.'
Except in Scotland evidently.
Though one of the more entertaining Unionist rage memes (there are so many!) is about English progressives praising and giving credit to Sturgeon.
Genuine unionists like to leave the raging to you nationalists; you are so much better at it. You only have to look at virtually every post of Malcolmg, it is hilarious, you can almost imagine him red in the face at the hated English.
Perhaps as Nationalist is such a nasty word, with pretty bad connotations, particularly in relation to racism, maybe you should rename it the Scottish Gammonist Party
At least a third of SNP voters also voted Leave in 2016
Non-weekend day with under 1000 new cases. The reopening coming just on time with this level of reduction.
Thats an astonishing number of tests
300k daily tests is truly astonishing. Absolutely no reason we can't keep this under control with track and trace with that level of daily testing.
Yes, the government actually did very well on getting testing capacity up dramatically by the beginning of June, but somehow managed to screw up the narrative so badly that they allowed their opponents to paint it as a great failure.
I think we are in a bit of a glass house on that front. It makes me cringe when Brexiteers try to pompously lecture Europeans on democracy. Us with an hereditary head of state, an appointed/hereditary legislative chamber, a head of government that is elected by a selectorate and FPTP. Have I missed anything?
Oh yes, a herd of PBTories saying the Scots can't have a referendum just because English MPs say so.
I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid
He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support
However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July
Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.
She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris
What's this "feart" business I keep seeing regarding Sturgeon?
It's implying that rather than courageously following BJ's course, Sturgeon has been supinely making her own mind up. It's almost like she's taken a knee to the welfare of Scotland!
Would it be distasteful to suggest she's put a knee on the neck of the Scottish economy?
Given the Scottish summer ends earlier than the English one, staying shut for longer is going to do tremendously more damage to Scottish summer-based seasonal businesses than the damage already inflicted to English ones.
what is this Scottish summer of which you speak????
Ducks and runs
Ducks can help to make the Scottish summer pleasant, the runs are best avoided though.
I think we are in a bit of a glass house on that front. It makes me cringe when Brexiteers try to pompously lecture Europeans on democracy. Us with an hereditary head of state, an appointed/hereditary legislative chamber, a head of government that is elected by a selectorate and FPTP. Have I missed anything?
And sone religious leaders, but only some, appointed to the upper chamber (so hard luck if you are the Moderator of tje Kirk of Scotland, or the Convener of the Methodist Conference).
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
And “make sure to emphasize to all the Southerners that Rehnquist is a reactionary bastard, which I hope to Christ he is,” Nixon said, in a segment of the tape that has been previously opened....
Love those tapes of oval office conversations. You get a real sense of history. And despite the profanities and the sometimes shocking sentiments you always know you're listening to serious geopolitical players, often flawed, but with great qualities too, and yes that includes Nixon.
But can you imagine what the batch from the last 4 years are going to sound like?
I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid
He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support
However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July
Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.
She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris
What's this "feart" business I keep seeing regarding Sturgeon?
It's implying that rather than courageously following BJ's course, Sturgeon has been supinely making her own mind up. It's almost like she's taken a knee to the welfare of Scotland!
And yet when she made similar decisions to "England" on the same day (and necessarily earlier in the day, so as not to clash with the "UK"/"England" press conference at 5pm, she was decried by PBTories and their ilk in the media for trying to steal Mr Johnson's thunder. Poor lady can't win.
'Poor lady can't win.'
Except in Scotland evidently.
Though one of the more entertaining Unionist rage memes (there are so many!) is about English progressives praising and giving credit to Sturgeon.
Genuine unionists like to leave the raging to you nationalists; you are so much better at it. You only have to look at virtually every post of Malcolmg, it is hilarious, you can almost imagine him red in the face at the hated English.
Perhaps as Nationalist is such a nasty word, with pretty bad connotations, particularly in relation to racism, maybe you should rename it the Scottish Gammonist Party
At least a third of SNP voters also voted Leave in 2016
There is little difference between the backward divisive Neanderthal attitudes of the SNP and UKIP/Brexit Party so I am not surprised.
What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?
In itself nothing at all. Its the context that makes it wrong. It would be like turning up to a memorial for 9/11, seeing a banner saying "We stand with New York" and thinking well thats not fair on people from Kabul, Im going to fly a banner saying "We stand with Kabul".
I think we are in a bit of a glass house on that front. It makes me cringe when Brexiteers try to pompously lecture Europeans on democracy. Us with an hereditary head of state, an appointed/hereditary legislative chamber, a head of government that is elected by a selectorate and FPTP. Have I missed anything?
Yes. Claiming to have a constitution, because the constitutional rules are written down, albeit in many different documents spanning over several centuries.
I think we are in a bit of a glass house on that front. It makes me cringe when Brexiteers try to pompously lecture Europeans on democracy. Us with an hereditary head of state, an appointed/hereditary legislative chamber, a head of government that is elected by a selectorate and FPTP. Have I missed anything?
And sone religious leaders, but only some, appointed to the upper chamber (so hard luck if you are the Moderator of tje Kirk of Scotland, or the Convener of the Methodist Conference).
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
Yes, you order by app at your table if indoors
The app is not compulsory, first, because not everyone has a smartphone and, second, because - as here - the broadband is simply insufficient to allow it to work. So someone will have to come to your table to take an order, get it ready and bring it back. That will inevitably slow down the service.
I reckon the R in England is now at 0.94. Cases are still declining but at a very slow rate. R is still high because of clusters eg Kobe meat processing plant in Cleckhaton West Yorkhsire had 150 employees test positive. This is a significant proportion of all cases reported in England. The good news is it is manageable by test, track and trace.
I think the R in London is 0.71. London apparently is not suffering spikes in spite of demos and widespread outside drinking at takeaway pubs. Are there any meat processing plants in London?
I think we are in a bit of a glass house on that front. It makes me cringe when Brexiteers try to pompously lecture Europeans on democracy. Us with an hereditary head of state, an appointed/hereditary legislative chamber, a head of government that is elected by a selectorate and FPTP. Have I missed anything?
Oh yes, a herd of PBTories saying the Scots can't have a referendum just because English MPs say so.
Er...I think in your moment of Scottish Gammon rage you may have quoted on the wrong post perhaps? Or was it perhaps that you were suggesting it was not very democratic that you had a referendum and lost it and that wasn't fair?
I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid
He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support
However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July
Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.
She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris
What's this "feart" business I keep seeing regarding Sturgeon?
Oh ffs! Retired GP and failed/disgraced minister in a senior trade role that British business depends on.You could not make up the state of amateurishness that our political life has become. Well I guess having an ex-polemicist liar as PM we really are in the age of "having enough of experts"!
Thinking man's Brexiteer though. Him and Richard Tyndall.
Other than Richard Tyndall it is a low bar. A bit like saying the thinking man's Sun reader or Chelsea supporter
If you ever want a succinct analysis of why Leave won there it is.
I think we are in a bit of a glass house on that front. It makes me cringe when Brexiteers try to pompously lecture Europeans on democracy. Us with an hereditary head of state, an appointed/hereditary legislative chamber, a head of government that is elected by a selectorate and FPTP. Have I missed anything?
Oh yes, a herd of PBTories saying the Scots can't have a referendum just because English MPs say so.
Er...I think in your moment of Scottish Gammon rage you may have quoted on the wrong post perhaps? Or was it perhaps that you were suggesting it was not very democratic that you had a referendum and lost it and that wasn't fair?
Only that a majority of ScottisH MPs were elected on a policy of a second referendum, thrashing the SCUP and others.
Incidentally, you’d have thought the government would have the guidance on pub reopening actually published on the day Boris announces it all. I mean that’s not too much to expect is it?
As far as my daughter can make out, the table service will make it very hard to make money. She’s now trying to work out how she can make it work in practice. If she can. Having been a bit hopeful the last few days she is now depressed again.
What happens, for instance, if there are a lot of drinkers, socially distanced outside, it suddenly rains and they come inside? Or is she meant to force them to stay outside? And when inside she has to allow them 20 mins to finish their drinks anyway.
Serious question: Can your Daughter not ask someone who runs a bar in one of the European countries, which have had experience of this for over a Month now?
I think we are in a bit of a glass house on that front. It makes me cringe when Brexiteers try to pompously lecture Europeans on democracy. Us with an hereditary head of state, an appointed/hereditary legislative chamber, a head of government that is elected by a selectorate and FPTP. Have I missed anything?
House of Lords = House of Unelected Has-Beens (or Never-Beens, in certain cases!).
They have turned into party political broadcasts without the right to reply. Even with that Bozo manages to squander the opportunity he has been given. Blair or Thatcher would have been there every day. Bozo is just too lazy
I reckon the R in England is now at 0.94. Cases are still declining but at a very slow rate. R is still high because of clusters eg Kobe meat processing plant in Cleckhaton West Yorkhsire had 150 employees test positive. This is a significant proportion of all cases reported in England. The good news is it is manageable by test, track and trace.
I think the R in London is 0.71. London apparently is not suffering spikes in spite of demos and widespread outside drinking at takeaway pubs. Are there any meat processing plants in London?
Oh ffs! Retired GP and failed/disgraced minister in a senior trade role that British business depends on.You could not make up the state of amateurishness that our political life has become. Well I guess having an ex-polemicist liar as PM we really are in the age of "having enough of experts"!
Thinking man's Brexiteer though. Him and Richard Tyndall.
Other than Richard Tyndall it is a low bar. A bit like saying the thinking man's Sun reader or Chelsea supporter
If you ever want a succinct analysis of why Leave won there it is.
Because much of the nation are thick? It is succinct - and there's a lot of truth there - but there was probably a bit more to Leave winning than that.
To be fair, most other countries haven't / aren't doing these. Macron and Merkel don't appear every day. Trump stopped ages ago. Cuomo in NY has stopped.
The government did these 7 days a week for several months and the media got loads of opportunity to ask questions, about an hour a day worth. That is far more than is ever usually happens, even during banking crisis.
I think we are in a bit of a glass house on that front. It makes me cringe when Brexiteers try to pompously lecture Europeans on democracy. Us with an hereditary head of state, an appointed/hereditary legislative chamber, a head of government that is elected by a selectorate and FPTP. Have I missed anything?
House of Lords = House of Unelected Has-Beens (or Never-Beens, in certain cases!).
I am not in favour of the HoLs lack of democratic legitimacy, but in truth it does have good people in it. I think the Never-Beens title is more appropriate to the dregs in the HoCs, in particular many of the lightweights in government.
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
To be fair, most other countries haven't / aren't doing these. Macron and Merkel don't appear every day. Trump stopped ages ago. Cuomo in NY has stopped.
The government did these 7 days a week for several months and the media got loads of opportunity to ask questions, about an hour a day worth. That is far more than is ever usually happens, even during banking crisis.
Indeed. And mostly they asked a) when are you going to lockdown b) when are you going to unlock
I reckon the R in England is now at 0.94. Cases are still declining but at a very slow rate. R is still high because of clusters eg Kobe meat processing plant in Cleckhaton West Yorkhsire had 150 employees test positive. This is a significant proportion of all cases reported in England. The good news is it is manageable by test, track and trace.
I think the R in London is 0.71. London apparently is not suffering spikes in spite of demos and widespread outside drinking at takeaway pubs. Are there any meat processing plants in London?
Well I thought the 2 metre rule being modified sounded perfectly sensible as the PM put it actually. I think it was actually more or less identical to my suggestion a few threads back -pleasently surprised. Still 2 metres prefferred, which is good.
To be fair, most other countries haven't / aren't doing these. Macron and Merkel don't appear every day. Trump stopped ages ago. Cuomo in NY has stopped.
The government did these 7 days a week for several months and the media got loads of opportunity to ask questions, about an hour a day worth. That is far more than is ever usually happens, even during banking crisis.
Indeed. And mostly they asked a) when are you going to lockdown b) when are you going to unlock
c) why aren't you providing / collecting such and such data...we are, its on the web.
I reckon the R in England is now at 0.94. Cases are still declining but at a very slow rate. R is still high because of clusters eg Kobe meat processing plant in Cleckhaton West Yorkhsire had 150 employees test positive. This is a significant proportion of all cases reported in England. The good news is it is manageable by test, track and trace.
I think the R in London is 0.71. London apparently is not suffering spikes in spite of demos and widespread outside drinking at takeaway pubs. Are there any meat processing plants in London?
What is it with abbatoirs and meat processing plants? There have been other outbreaks that that walesonline article has missed too.
The CMO tried to explain in the press conference. Cold is a major factor by sound of it (which bodes badly for next winter). Lots of shouting over the noise.
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
Yes, you order by app at your table if indoors
The app is not compulsory, first, because not everyone has a smartphone and, second, because - as here - the broadband is simply insufficient to allow it to work. So someone will have to come to your table to take an order, get it ready and bring it back. That will inevitably slow down the service.
My sister's pub is almost certain to close down as it is essentially a music venue dependent on getting a decent crowd into a small space and so cannot function if there is any kind of social distancing. It's a real shame. They put their hearts and souls into building it up into a viable business.
Well I thought the 2 metre rule being modified sounded perfectly sensible as the PM put it actually. I think it was actually more or less identical to my suggestion a few threads back -pleasently surprised. Still 2 metres prefferred, which is good.
Yes, it's perfectly sensible, but no doubt the media will succeed in trashing it.
Oh ffs! Retired GP and failed/disgraced minister in a senior trade role that British business depends on.You could not make up the state of amateurishness that our political life has become. Well I guess having an ex-polemicist liar as PM we really are in the age of "having enough of experts"!
Thinking man's Brexiteer though. Him and Richard Tyndall.
Other than Richard Tyndall it is a low bar. A bit like saying the thinking man's Sun reader or Chelsea supporter
If you ever want a succinct analysis of why Leave won there it is.
Because much of the nation are thick? It is succinct - and there's a lot of truth there - but there was probably a bit more to Leave winning than that.
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
Yes, you order by app at your table if indoors
The app is not compulsory, first, because not everyone has a smartphone and, second, because - as here - the broadband is simply insufficient to allow it to work. So someone will have to come to your table to take an order, get it ready and bring it back. That will inevitably slow down the service.
My sister's pub is almost certain to close down as it is essentially a music venue dependent on getting a decent crowd into a small space and so cannot function if there is any kind of social distancing. It's a real shame. They put their hearts and souls into building it up into a viable business.
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
Yes, you order by app at your table if indoors
The app is not compulsory, first, because not everyone has a smartphone and, second, because - as here - the broadband is simply insufficient to allow it to work. So someone will have to come to your table to take an order, get it ready and bring it back. That will inevitably slow down the service.
My sister's pub is almost certain to close down as it is essentially a music venue dependent on getting a decent crowd into a small space and so cannot function if there is any kind of social distancing. It's a real shame. They put their hearts and souls into building it up into a viable business.
I presume we are going to see lots of gyms in big trouble shortly. No way they can carry on with no membership fees, with no prospect of opening soon and will be one of the first things closed back down in the winter.
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
Yes, you order by app at your table if indoors
The app is not compulsory, first, because not everyone has a smartphone and, second, because - as here - the broadband is simply insufficient to allow it to work. So someone will have to come to your table to take an order, get it ready and bring it back. That will inevitably slow down the service.
My sister's pub is almost certain to close down as it is essentially a music venue dependent on getting a decent crowd into a small space and so cannot function if there is any kind of social distancing. It's a real shame. They put their hearts and souls into building it up into a viable business.
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
Yes, you order by app at your table if indoors
The app is not compulsory, first, because not everyone has a smartphone and, second, because - as here - the broadband is simply insufficient to allow it to work. So someone will have to come to your table to take an order, get it ready and bring it back. That will inevitably slow down the service.
My sister's pub is almost certain to close down as it is essentially a music venue dependent on getting a decent crowd into a small space and so cannot function if there is any kind of social distancing. It's a real shame. They put their hearts and souls into building it up into a viable business.
As somebody in the pub game I'm so sorry to hear that, unfortunately there'll be hundreds if not thousands of similar stories across the country. Tragic for your sister, the staff and all the acts, multiplied nationwide.
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
Yes, you order by app at your table if indoors
The app is not compulsory, first, because not everyone has a smartphone and, second, because - as here - the broadband is simply insufficient to allow it to work. So someone will have to come to your table to take an order, get it ready and bring it back. That will inevitably slow down the service.
My sister's pub is almost certain to close down as it is essentially a music venue dependent on getting a decent crowd into a small space and so cannot function if there is any kind of social distancing. It's a real shame. They put their hearts and souls into building it up into a viable business.
I presume we are going to see lots of gyms in big trouble shortly. No way they can carry on with no membership fees, with no prospect of opening soon and will be one of the first things closed back down in the winter.
Also a shame. I'm missing swimming more than pints actually. Amazed I could ever type such a sentence but there you go.
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
Yes, you order by app at your table if indoors
The app is not compulsory, first, because not everyone has a smartphone and, second, because - as here - the broadband is simply insufficient to allow it to work. So someone will have to come to your table to take an order, get it ready and bring it back. That will inevitably slow down the service.
My sister's pub is almost certain to close down as it is essentially a music venue dependent on getting a decent crowd into a small space and so cannot function if there is any kind of social distancing. It's a real shame. They put their hearts and souls into building it up into a viable business.
I presume we are going to see lots of gyms in big trouble shortly. No way they can carry on with no membership fees, with no prospect of opening soon and will be one of the first things closed back down in the winter.
I am still paying my gym membership fee by direct debit but have not been there since March
Incidentally, you’d have thought the government would have the guidance on pub reopening actually published on the day Boris announces it all. I mean that’s not too much to expect is it?
As far as my daughter can make out, the table service will make it very hard to make money. She’s now trying to work out how she can make it work in practice. If she can. Having been a bit hopeful the last few days she is now depressed again.
What happens, for instance, if there are a lot of drinkers, socially distanced outside, it suddenly rains and they come inside? Or is she meant to force them to stay outside? And when inside she has to allow them 20 mins to finish their drinks anyway.
Serious question: Can your Daughter not ask someone who runs a bar in one of the European countries, which have had experience of this for over a Month now?
A good idea. First she needs to see the actual guidance and sit down with her staff to see what they can do that will work for them. The difference in guidance may make the difference plus hot European countries will not have the weather concerns. But thank you.
What happens, for instance, if there are a lot of drinkers, socially distanced outside, it suddenly rains and they come inside?
So long as household groups or bubbles are 2 metres apart or 1 metres with mitigation measures I guess.
But that’s the point: there will be people inside 2 or 1 metre apart. The people outside will come in to stop getting wet and then there won’t be the space to keep people apart even 1 metre. You can’t order people out if they still have their drinks. And you can’t tell people to stand in the rain.
So long as the measures are to do what’s reasonable that can perhaps be lived with. But while individuals can ignore guidance - as we have seen - businesses are in a different and more difficult position. They need to show that they have taken reasonable steps to comply both to avoid liability but also to attract custom and make people feel safe enough to come.
So they need to think all of this through to try and have a plan. And do this without knowing what turnover they will get and whether even complying with these measures will allow them to make a profitable living.
I see the media thing now is now to scream about 1m...1m....we went with 2m, which was larger than any other country, now we are moving to what the WHO advise and many other countries followed from the beginning.
If we stuck to 2m and all the pubs went bust, they would screaming (and have done) why aren't we following WHO.
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
Yes, you order by app at your table if indoors
The app is not compulsory, first, because not everyone has a smartphone and, second, because - as here - the broadband is simply insufficient to allow it to work. So someone will have to come to your table to take an order, get it ready and bring it back. That will inevitably slow down the service.
My sister's pub is almost certain to close down as it is essentially a music venue dependent on getting a decent crowd into a small space and so cannot function if there is any kind of social distancing. It's a real shame. They put their hearts and souls into building it up into a viable business.
I presume we are going to see lots of gyms in big trouble shortly. No way they can carry on with no membership fees, with no prospect of opening soon and will be one of the first things closed back down in the winter.
Also a shame. I'm missing swimming more than pints actually. Amazed I could ever type such a sentence but there you go.
The Sport and Recreation Alliance (sport unbrella lobbying group of which all sport bodies are members) have issued a damning statement about indoor sports facilities having no date for opening.
I reckon the R in England is now at 0.94. Cases are still declining but at a very slow rate. R is still high because of clusters eg Kobe meat processing plant in Cleckhaton West Yorkhsire had 150 employees test positive. This is a significant proportion of all cases reported in England. The good news is it is manageable by test, track and trace.
I think the R in London is 0.71. London apparently is not suffering spikes in spite of demos and widespread outside drinking at takeaway pubs. Are there any meat processing plants in London?
Oh ffs! Retired GP and failed/disgraced minister in a senior trade role that British business depends on.You could not make up the state of amateurishness that our political life has become. Well I guess having an ex-polemicist liar as PM we really are in the age of "having enough of experts"!
Thinking man's Brexiteer though. Him and Richard Tyndall.
Other than Richard Tyndall it is a low bar. A bit like saying the thinking man's Sun reader or Chelsea supporter
If you ever want a succinct analysis of why Leave won there it is.
If you voted Leave simply because you don't like my tongue in cheek analysis of the average Brexit supporter you are clearly supporting the thrust of that proposition. By the way, if I say you have to be pretty thick to drink and drive, it is probably best for your family that you don't take a contrarian view.
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
Yes, you order by app at your table if indoors
Sounds like fun
Maybe the yard of ale is about to get a practical application?
I see the media thing now is now to scream about 1m...1m....we went with 2m, which was larger than any other country, now we are moving to what the WHO advise and many other countries followed from the beginning.
If we stuck to 2m and all the pubs went bust, they would screaming (and have done) why aren't we following WHO.
Four years since the greatest public policy mistake since the War.
My preferred result would have been a Remain victory by one vote, because that would have shocked the EU into realising they had to make some serious reforms to keep the project afloat.
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
Yes, you order by app at your table if indoors
The app is not compulsory, first, because not everyone has a smartphone and, second, because - as here - the broadband is simply insufficient to allow it to work. So someone will have to come to your table to take an order, get it ready and bring it back. That will inevitably slow down the service.
My sister's pub is almost certain to close down as it is essentially a music venue dependent on getting a decent crowd into a small space and so cannot function if there is any kind of social distancing. It's a real shame. They put their hearts and souls into building it up into a viable business.
Yep - it's just really, really bad luck. And the brewery has no incentive to help as they can make a shedload of money by converting it into flats that they can sell for a fortune in that part of London. You put everything you have into creating a business, get a level of success and then see it all fall to pieces through no fault of your own. Luckily, they are at an age where they can probably retire and my sister also has a Kumon franchise that is proving resilient. But this was a passion and it's almost certainly done for.
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
Yes, you order by app at your table if indoors
The app is not compulsory, first, because not everyone has a smartphone and, second, because - as here - the broadband is simply insufficient to allow it to work. So someone will have to come to your table to take an order, get it ready and bring it back. That will inevitably slow down the service.
My sister's pub is almost certain to close down as it is essentially a music venue dependent on getting a decent crowd into a small space and so cannot function if there is any kind of social distancing. It's a real shame. They put their hearts and souls into building it up into a viable business.
I presume we are going to see lots of gyms in big trouble shortly. No way they can carry on with no membership fees, with no prospect of opening soon and will be one of the first things closed back down in the winter.
I am still paying my gym membership fee by direct debit but have not been there since March
The chain i am a member of, froze fees in March. The independent gym I also train at said you can stop direct debits, but the owner is a good guy and so I have continued to pay.
I see the media thing now is now to scream about 1m...1m....we went with 2m, which was larger than any other country, now we are moving to what the WHO advise and many other countries followed from the beginning.
If we stuck to 2m and all the pubs went bust, they would screaming (and have done) why aren't we following WHO.
Does anyone have any pub visit stats?
I know I'm not the target for pubs, what with me being a good Muslim boy and all, but for my younger staff visiting the pub is anachronistic as using dial up internet.
The really sad thing about this, is that there are those who actively want this to fail thereby costings millions of jobs, school children seriously disadvantaged, and mental health disorders rocketing
Unbelievable that indoor leisure facilities cannot open in July . No Swimming , table tennis etc .Illogical and harmful to public health
It's perfectly reasonable - community swimming pools are about a 9.5 on the risk scale for obvious reasons. Droplets, showers, loos etc etc... Meat processing production lines at a 10.
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
Yes, you order by app at your table if indoors
The app is not compulsory, first, because not everyone has a smartphone and, second, because - as here - the broadband is simply insufficient to allow it to work. So someone will have to come to your table to take an order, get it ready and bring it back. That will inevitably slow down the service.
My sister's pub is almost certain to close down as it is essentially a music venue dependent on getting a decent crowd into a small space and so cannot function if there is any kind of social distancing. It's a real shame. They put their hearts and souls into building it up into a viable business.
The really sad thing about this, is that there are those who actively want this to fail thereby costings millions of jobs, school children seriously disadvantaged, and mental health disorders rocketing
The new reality is there is an increased element of risk in our lives. It is just a fact. But some twats want to make a huge song and dance about everything until the world is "safe" (unless its an illegal protest, then that's fine, we ignore that).
Unbelievable that indoor leisure facilities cannot open in July . No Swimming , table tennis etc .Illogical and harmful to public health
It's perfectly reasonable - community swimming pools are about a 9.5 on the risk scale for obvious reasons. Droplets, showers, loos etc etc... Meat processing production lines at a 10.
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
Yes, you order by app at your table if indoors
The app is not compulsory, first, because not everyone has a smartphone and, second, because - as here - the broadband is simply insufficient to allow it to work. So someone will have to come to your table to take an order, get it ready and bring it back. That will inevitably slow down the service.
My sister's pub is almost certain to close down as it is essentially a music venue dependent on getting a decent crowd into a small space and so cannot function if there is any kind of social distancing. It's a real shame. They put their hearts and souls into building it up into a viable business.
I presume we are going to see lots of gyms in big trouble shortly. No way they can carry on with no membership fees, with no prospect of opening soon and will be one of the first things closed back down in the winter.
I am still paying my gym membership fee by direct debit but have not been there since March
Don’t worry, millions knew that paying the membership is entirely sufficient, before the virus came along.
Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
Yes, you order by app at your table if indoors
The app is not compulsory, first, because not everyone has a smartphone and, second, because - as here - the broadband is simply insufficient to allow it to work. So someone will have to come to your table to take an order, get it ready and bring it back. That will inevitably slow down the service.
My sister's pub is almost certain to close down as it is essentially a music venue dependent on getting a decent crowd into a small space and so cannot function if there is any kind of social distancing. It's a real shame. They put their hearts and souls into building it up into a viable business.
I presume we are going to see lots of gyms in big trouble shortly. No way they can carry on with no membership fees, with no prospect of opening soon and will be one of the first things closed back down in the winter.
My guess is that we will see a slow, steady shallowing out of the hospitality and leisure sector throughout the summer that will be largely unnocticed initially because there will be lots of post-lockdown pictures of crowded bars in city centres and down on the coasts, and that this will then accelerate once the nights start closing in - at which point it will become a big story.
Comments
But the views.......
Might give it a try next May or June then - might be cheaper too :-)
All time worst President has to be Andrew Jackson (Trump possibly second worst)
All time worst SCOTUS decision has to be Dred Scott v Sandford
Indyref2 therefore requires a Starmer led government at Westminster in 2024 as well as another nationalist majority at Holyrood next year
I hate this country.
Bring out the guillotines.
Perhaps as Nationalist is such a nasty word, with pretty bad connotations, particularly in relation to racism, maybe you should rename it the Scottish Gammonist Party
The latest outbreak in a Westphalian "Meat" Processing plant has now spread from Gütersloh to the neighbouring district of Warendorf , halfway to the city of Münster. How this develops and is dealt with could be a key indicator of how the politicians cope with the seoond wave.
As far as my daughter can make out, the table service will make it very hard to make money. She’s now trying to work out how she can make it work in practice. If she can. Having been a bit hopeful the last few days she is now depressed again.
What happens, for instance, if there are a lot of drinkers, socially distanced outside, it suddenly rains and they come inside? Or is she meant to force them to stay outside? And when inside she has to allow them 20 mins to finish their drinks anyway.
Who is saying WLM, and why are they saying it? Do you want to walk the same road as them?
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/01/ed-davey-ahead-liberal-democrat-leadership-race
PM programme R4: "Today is 171 deaths *in a day*."
Do, dear idiots of the BBC, that is NOT today's deaths. That is *reported* deaths.
What a complete collection of nincompoops.
But can you imagine what the batch from the last 4 years are going to sound like?
Can't believe it's been 4 years!
https://twitter.com/PeterBoneUK/status/1275418544000380933?s=20
I think the R in London is 0.71. London apparently is not suffering spikes in spite of demos and widespread outside drinking at takeaway pubs. Are there any meat processing plants in London?
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/anglesey-meat-processing-plant-coronavirus-18463940
The government did these 7 days a week for several months and the media got loads of opportunity to ask questions, about an hour a day worth. That is far more than is ever usually happens, even during banking crisis.
https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1275467017584283648?s=20
I think it was actually more or less identical to my suggestion a few threads back -pleasently surprised. Still 2 metres prefferred, which is good.
http://www.thefiddlerselbow.co.uk/
If anyone heard BoZo say "1m if you can't do 2m" like the fanbois on the previous thread is what he means by distorted
The furlough scheme needs to take into account such venues.
What a joyless place we're becoming
So long as the measures are to do what’s reasonable that can perhaps be lived with. But while individuals can ignore guidance - as we have seen - businesses are in a different and more difficult position. They need to show that they have taken reasonable steps to comply both to avoid liability but also to attract custom and make people feel safe enough to come.
So they need to think all of this through to try and have a plan. And do this without knowing what turnover they will get and whether even complying with these measures will allow them to make a profitable living.
It is going to be very very tough.
https://twitter.com/joshglancy/status/1275438556266168324
If we stuck to 2m and all the pubs went bust, they would screaming (and have done) why aren't we following WHO.
I know I'm not the target for pubs, what with me being a good Muslim boy and all, but for my younger staff visiting the pub is anachronistic as using dial up internet.
Droplets, showers, loos etc etc...
Meat processing production lines at a 10.
Can the crowd funding not help?
We are going to lose so much of our creative arts - one thing Britain is indisputably world class in.