The LibDem leadership contest looks interesting. Three very different candidates offering different directions:
Lalya "don't slap me" Morgan wants to tack to the left of what she assumes will be a pretty centrist Labour Party. Even if they were that would put the LibDems way off to the left. And as I suspect Starmer isn't as centre line as imagined then its a loooong way left. I like Layla, but she assaulted her partner and has a glorious air of odd about her.
Wera Hobhouse. Ex-Rochdale (marks off at the start) wants a clean break from the Coalition years and restart as a centre left party. Lots of pro-EU pro-PR stuff. Red meat to the Social Democrat wing of the party but the least convincing leadership candidate you can imagine
Ed Davey. Took on the Tories and won. Offers vision experience and leadership, and wants to spend £lots on a green revolution to "build back better" after the pandemic. For me the most convincing of the three by a long way - using the coalition as a selling point makes sense. 'All the good things done in government? Done by the LibDems. All the bad things? That was the Tories and think how bad it would have been if we hadn't been there to fight them'
I'm certainly back in the LibDem camp now that my mental challenges from lockdown are behind me. Question is do I wait and see who wins the contest (not worth it if Vera Carboard Box wins) or rejoin to vote for Davey?
Brave call to reopen campsites. The shared spaces - toilets and wash fascilities especially - look guaranteed to be coronavirus hotspots.
Looks like I'll be going to Cornwall in August, though. I wonder how the locals will react to the influx. There have been a lot of reports that they don't want anyone there.
Yep. Both were unabashed conviction politicians who ended up dragging the opposing party away from its traditional moorings to a place much closer to them in policy outlook.
This is sometimes described - although not by me - as winning the argument.
My daughter and her entire team have just been paid off by Tesco's who seem to have decided that they need fewer people to cope with home deliveries. Quite a few jobs lost.
She's pretty gutted. It was only ever going to be a stepping stone for her but it has kept her busy and put some money in the bank. Even lockdowns had some upsides.
My son had been doing a similar thing at another store chain.
He was on a zero hours contract but had been verbally promised a permanent contract with guaranteed hours.
Then he ended up having an operation and 3 weeks recovery - so they let him go.
He is philosophical, I am less so.
Some seriously black clouds in retail at the moment...
Interesting that Tesco are putting employees to the sword like this - similar treatment for shielders who are being told go back to work or else. Then we have their strategy for suppliers - they are coming to the trade with their big stick demanding monies with menaces. Fun times!
The mayor of Phoenix has said that Donald Trump should wear a mask when he visits her patch later today. How should the Trump team respond? Comply, refuse, ignore? Deny that she said it? He's got to outflank, but how? Try to focus attention on a fight over a statue outside his palace? He's looking ever more like a lost cause.
The LibDem leadership contest looks interesting. Three very different candidates offering different directions:
Lalya "don't slap me" Morgan wants to tack to the left of what she assumes will be a pretty centrist Labour Party. Even if they were that would put the LibDems way off to the left. And as I suspect Starmer isn't as centre line as imagined then its a loooong way left. I like Layla, but she assaulted her partner and has a glorious air of odd about her.
Wera Hobhouse. Ex-Rochdale (marks off at the start) wants a clean break from the Coalition years and restart as a centre left party. Lots of pro-EU pro-PR stuff. Red meat to the Social Democrat wing of the party but the least convincing leadership candidate you can imagine
Ed Davey. Took on the Tories and won. Offers vision experience and leadership, and wants to spend £lots on a green revolution to "build back better" after the pandemic. For me the most convincing of the three by a long way - using the coalition as a selling point makes sense. 'All the good things done in government? Done by the LibDems. All the bad things? That was the Tories and think how bad it would have been if we hadn't been there to fight them'
I'm certainly back in the LibDem camp now that my mental challenges from lockdown are behind me. Question is do I wait and see who wins the contest (not worth it if Vera Carboard Box wins) or rejoin to vote for Davey?
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So hands up, who is going to miss Prof Peston taking 5 minutes to ask a dumb question that is factually incorrect....
I won't miss the press going for gotchas, or picking holes, or trying to find loopholes all the time. Government has not been perfect, but to anyone calling on them to admit getting things wrong, ask what would happen next? I am also getting fed up of commentators saying how bad our test and trace system is, yet not giving evidence for that view.
It's getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So hands up, who is going to miss Prof Peston taking 5 minutes to ask a dumb question that is factually incorrect....
There is a cheesy fascination to it - like watching 1960s Batman series fights. The exaggerated moves, telegraphed a week in advance. The punches in the wrong timezones....
The LibDem leadership contest looks interesting. Three very different candidates offering different directions:
Lalya "don't slap me" Morgan wants to tack to the left of what she assumes will be a pretty centrist Labour Party. Even if they were that would put the LibDems way off to the left. And as I suspect Starmer isn't as centre line as imagined then its a loooong way left. I like Layla, but she assaulted her partner and has a glorious air of odd about her.
Wera Hobhouse. Ex-Rochdale (marks off at the start) wants a clean break from the Coalition years and restart as a centre left party. Lots of pro-EU pro-PR stuff. Red meat to the Social Democrat wing of the party but the least convincing leadership candidate you can imagine
Ed Davey. Took on the Tories and won. Offers vision experience and leadership, and wants to spend £lots on a green revolution to "build back better" after the pandemic. For me the most convincing of the three by a long way - using the coalition as a selling point makes sense. 'All the good things done in government? Done by the LibDems. All the bad things? That was the Tories and think how bad it would have been if we hadn't been there to fight them'
I'm certainly back in the LibDem camp now that my mental challenges from lockdown are behind me. Question is do I wait and see who wins the contest (not worth it if Vera Carboard Box wins) or rejoin to vote for Davey?
One wonders whether you are toying with returning to the LibDems simply because Labour wasn’t as overjoyed with your membership reapplication as you might have anticipated?
Carry on like this and you won’t be welcome anywhere. The cost to a party of a defection is always higher than the benefit of one extra member.
My mental wobbles at the time were being broadcast on here. With the 4 walls of my "hamster cage" suffocating me a return to some kind of normal was desperately needed. Starmer won the leadership contest, was wooden, I slagged him off on here. Then at a very low ebb several of my friends in Labour implored me to come back so I applied, with friends suggesting I would be this right wing scurge against their loony enemies, and the loonies suggesting I would be this right wing scurge... So I am told an email was sent by the local Momentum frother to the right name on the NEC and I got blocked. As I have had to pint out on local Facebook groups I know that I said "I have rejoined the Labour Party" but legally at no point did that happen!
Lets be honest - they were probably right to block me, I wasn't joining out of enthusiasm for Starmer or the party as such, but fancied "normal" and a fight with the trots seemed better than sitting in my cage building the LibDems locally. I've since made it up with the local LibDems who have given me an open invitation to come back when I am ready.
So hands up, who is going to miss Prof Peston taking 5 minutes to ask a dumb question that is factually incorrect....
Don't worry about it, he will be a (non) expert in something completely different next week.
I had the dubious pleasure of meeting him once. He is even more arrogant and full of himself in the flesh than he appears in TV. His ridiculous delivery is also largely phoney
So hands up, who is going to miss Prof Peston taking 5 minutes to ask a dumb question that is factually incorrect....
Don't worry about it, he will be a (non) expert in something completely different next week.
I had the dubious pleasure of meeting him once. He is even more arrogant and full of himself in the flesh than he appears in TV. His ridiculous delivery is also largely phoney
You have my sympathies. He seems to be a total prat.
So hands up, who is going to miss Prof Peston taking 5 minutes to ask a dumb question that is factually incorrect....
Don't worry about it, he will be a (non) expert in something completely different next week.
I had the dubious pleasure of meeting him once. He is even more arrogant and full of himself in the flesh than he appears in TV. His ridiculous delivery is also largely phoney
You have my sympathies. He seems to be a total prat.
Am I the only one on here who doesn't mind, indeed very much likes all the media folk - Peston, O'Brien, Philips, Morgan, Murray, Robinson, Humphreys, etc. They are all a vital part of holding this government to account and/or shaping the debate.
Yep. Both were unabashed conviction politicians who ended up dragging the opposing party away from its traditional moorings to a place much closer to them in policy outlook.
This is sometimes described - although not by me - as winning the argument.
Hmm, I think it is a strong leader giving rise to an almost as strong leader, whereas with the latter two we have a weak juvenile political imbecile devoid of normal leadership skills giving rise to a similarly weak political imbecile also devoid of normal leadership skills.
Johnson and Corbyn could not be further away from Thatcher and Blair.
So hands up, who is going to miss Prof Peston taking 5 minutes to ask a dumb question that is factually incorrect....
Don't worry about it, he will be a (non) expert in something completely different next week.
I had the dubious pleasure of meeting him once. He is even more arrogant and full of himself in the flesh than he appears in TV. His ridiculous delivery is also largely phoney
You have my sympathies. He seems to be a total prat.
Am I the only one on here who doesn't mind, indeed very much likes all the media folk - Peston, O'Brien, Philips, Morgan, Murray, Robinson, Humphreys, etc. They are all a vital part of holding this government to account and/or shaping the debate.
I don't get the vitriol.
Peston may/may not be OK at holding a government to account over economics.
He is a failure at holding them to account n this crisis. He should give up his seat to a journalist who can understand science.
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
The mayor of Phoenix has said that Donald Trump should wear a mask when he visits her patch later today. How should the Trump team respond? Comply, refuse, ignore? Deny that she said it? He's got to outflank, but how? Try to focus attention on a fight over a statue outside his palace? He's looking ever more like a lost cause.
I must have missed the bit where you set up politicalbetting.com and established all the rules, and also the moment when you established a secret telepathic link to all the commenters so you could know what they all think at any given moment.
If you want to knock yourself out, you pompous old bladder, why not have a poll of the commenters and lurkers, and see if they want people to cease commenting and remain silent, if they can't reveal their identities?
You cannot be SeanT by simple logic
- I never agree with SeanT on anything. - I have now wound up agreeing with you twice - You cannot therefore be Sean
Personally speaking, whilst I do reveal bits of my life on here, I am careful about what I reveal and I have changed one or two minor details for my own privacy. Nonetheless, what I have disclosed to other PBers via email or PM, I trust them to keep it private as I do on their behalf for information they have disclosed to me.
So hands up, who is going to miss Prof Peston taking 5 minutes to ask a dumb question that is factually incorrect....
Don't worry about it, he will be a (non) expert in something completely different next week.
I had the dubious pleasure of meeting him once. He is even more arrogant and full of himself in the flesh than he appears in TV. His ridiculous delivery is also largely phoney
You have my sympathies. He seems to be a total prat.
Am I the only one on here who doesn't mind, indeed very much likes all the media folk - Peston, O'Brien, Philips, Morgan, Murray, Robinson, Humphreys, etc. They are all a vital part of holding this government to account and/or shaping the debate.
I don't get the vitriol.
Peston may/may not be OK at holding a government to account over economics.
He is a failure at holding them to account n this crisis. He should give up his seat to a journalist who can understand science.
It would be good if the government could do likewise!
The LibDem leadership contest looks interesting. Three very different candidates offering different directions:
Lalya "don't slap me" Morgan wants to tack to the left of what she assumes will be a pretty centrist Labour Party. Even if they were that would put the LibDems way off to the left. And as I suspect Starmer isn't as centre line as imagined then its a loooong way left. I like Layla, but she assaulted her partner and has a glorious air of odd about her.
Wera Hobhouse. Ex-Rochdale (marks off at the start) wants a clean break from the Coalition years and restart as a centre left party. Lots of pro-EU pro-PR stuff. Red meat to the Social Democrat wing of the party but the least convincing leadership candidate you can imagine
Ed Davey. Took on the Tories and won. Offers vision experience and leadership, and wants to spend £lots on a green revolution to "build back better" after the pandemic. For me the most convincing of the three by a long way - using the coalition as a selling point makes sense. 'All the good things done in government? Done by the LibDems. All the bad things? That was the Tories and think how bad it would have been if we hadn't been there to fight them'
I'm certainly back in the LibDem camp now that my mental challenges from lockdown are behind me. Question is do I wait and see who wins the contest (not worth it if Vera Carboard Box wins) or rejoin to vote for Davey?
One wonders whether you are toying with returning to the LibDems simply because Labour wasn’t as overjoyed with your membership reapplication as you might have anticipated?
Carry on like this and you won’t be welcome anywhere. The cost to a party of a defection is always higher than the benefit of one extra member.
My mental wobbles at the time were being broadcast on here. With the 4 walls of my "hamster cage" suffocating me a return to some kind of normal was desperately needed. Starmer won the leadership contest, was wooden, I slagged him off on here. Then at a very low ebb several of my friends in Labour implored me to come back so I applied, with friends suggesting I would be this right wing scurge against their loony enemies, and the loonies suggesting I would be this right wing scurge... So I am told an email was sent by the local Momentum frother to the right name on the NEC and I got blocked. As I have had to pint out on local Facebook groups I know that I said "I have rejoined the Labour Party" but legally at no point did that happen!
Lets be honest - they were probably right to block me, I wasn't joining out of enthusiasm for Starmer or the party as such, but fancied "normal" and a fight with the trots seemed better than sitting in my cage building the LibDems locally. I've since made it up with the local LibDems who have given me an open invitation to come back when I am ready.
Well that’s hopefully good news. I consider myself politically left of centre but also consider the Labour Party to be one of the most repulsive and repellent organisations I have encountered in my lifetime.
The tragedy of progressive politics in the UK is the way the voting system prevents Labour ever being replaced.
So hands up, who is going to miss Prof Peston taking 5 minutes to ask a dumb question that is factually incorrect....
Don't worry about it, he will be a (non) expert in something completely different next week.
I had the dubious pleasure of meeting him once. He is even more arrogant and full of himself in the flesh than he appears in TV. His ridiculous delivery is also largely phoney
You have my sympathies. He seems to be a total prat.
Am I the only one on here who doesn't mind, indeed very much likes all the media folk - Peston, O'Brien, Philips, Morgan, Murray, Robinson, Humphreys, etc. They are all a vital part of holding this government to account and/or shaping the debate.
I don't get the vitriol.
Apparently not because you got a like. It's a novel position though.
So hands up, who is going to miss Prof Peston taking 5 minutes to ask a dumb question that is factually incorrect....
Don't worry about it, he will be a (non) expert in something completely different next week.
I had the dubious pleasure of meeting him once. He is even more arrogant and full of himself in the flesh than he appears in TV. His ridiculous delivery is also largely phoney
You have my sympathies. He seems to be a total prat.
Am I the only one on here who doesn't mind, indeed very much likes all the media folk - Peston, O'Brien, Philips, Morgan, Murray, Robinson, Humphreys, etc. They are all a vital part of holding this government to account and/or shaping the debate.
I don't get the vitriol.
Peston may/may not be OK at holding a government to account over economics.
He is a failure at holding them to account n this crisis. He should give up his seat to a journalist who can understand science.
The vast majority of his readership don't understand science. There were some great questions asked on here (so in theory only) by many including eg @Nigelb but that is very far from being a national journalist asking questions which may appear to have no method but which are designed to tease out responses that matter to and are understood by the man on the Clapham Omnibus.
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
Mr. L, sorry to hear about your daughter's situation, but at least she knew it was a stepping stone and had a saving mentality. Also, depending on her age/experience it could be handy have a recent reference when applying for other stuff.
My daughter and her entire team have just been paid off by Tesco's who seem to have decided that they need fewer people to cope with home deliveries. Quite a few jobs lost.
She's pretty gutted. It was only ever going to be a stepping stone for her but it has kept her busy and put some money in the bank. Even lockdowns had some upsides.
My son had been doing a similar thing at another store chain.
He was on a zero hours contract but had been verbally promised a permanent contract with guaranteed hours.
Then he ended up having an operation and 3 weeks recovery - so they let him go.
He is philosophical, I am less so.
Some seriously black clouds in retail at the moment...
Interesting that Tesco are putting employees to the sword like this - similar treatment for shielders who are being told go back to work or else. Then we have their strategy for suppliers - they are coming to the trade with their big stick demanding monies with menaces. Fun times!
I know from my own daughter and from our younger staff that anybody under 30 has had a very very difficult time, whether in work or out, and I think this has been under played, under reported and under estimated.
Mr. L, sorry to hear about your daughter's situation, but at least she knew it was a stepping stone and had a saving mentality. Also, depending on her age/experience it could be handy have a recent reference when applying for other stuff.
Indeed and thanks. She has had a difficult time since graduating and this is a blow.
Brave call to reopen campsites. The shared spaces - toilets and wash fascilities especially - look guaranteed to be coronavirus hotspots.
Looks like I'll be going to Cornwall in August, though. I wonder how the locals will react to the influx. There have been a lot of reports that they don't want anyone there.
EVERYBODY is going to Cornwall in August. Even me. I have a feeling it will be one of two things - very very good or very very bad.
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
I know the effort of waking up every morning in the full expectation that Sturgeon and the SNP are about to have their 13 year long honeymoon ended by the voters is frustrating, but calm down dear.
Your ability to to be eternally Panglossian about the disaster presided over by the podgy Etonian mess while perpetually Eeyoreing about anything done in Scotland really is one of the wonders of nature.
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
There were, of course, real uncertainties with R - and I recall sone on PB from the Unionist/Tory side emphasising the R being so high in Scotland.
But the answer is seemingly (e) because the deviation of the numbers simply hadn't happened then (edit: aboput the time of the first lockdown release in England). Mr McKelvie has posted an interesting pair of graphs - he emphasises that the deviation isn't simply due to lockdown relaxation, thogh does not say what other factors he thinks caused it. One obvious possibility is the underrreporting of English covid deaths compared to Scotland where the reported figures for covid deaths (NRS, weekly data) were much closer to excess deaths for time of year (as we on PB have discussed on and off over the last two months). That deviation would be about the time when the discrepancy between the two figures in Englandf started to reduce.
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
c) is her modus operandi
Indeed it is but when I was at school doing multiple choice I was always tempted by "all of the above" unless one of them was clearly wrong.
One thing the Government needs to do is a mass advertising campaign to inform people that NHS Hospitals and Local Surgeries are open. The five hospitals that I have information on remain ghost towns. All staff are down to their minimum contract hours and there is no bank work or overtime available. This has meant huge pay cuts for nurses and carers. My wifes income is down 40% and she is hardly at work now, just 5 shifts in a two week period, down from her normal 8-9. When she does go to work there are often more staff than patients. This issue also extends for Doctors and Consultants. You may have noticed the "work for the NHS" advert is no longer being shown. Newly qualified nurses are normally snapped up, this year they will struggle to get employment, hospitals just don't need them. Older nurses are being encouraged to take early retirement.
The lack of demand for the NHS at the moment is incredible.
Take a trip to your local hospital, you will be astonished at what they are like.
American cases are surging, and have been for some time, especially in the South.
And yet, deaths are still gently but steadily declining.
I know "death" is a lagging indicator, but still. I am starting to wonder if the virus simply weakens, after a while. Or there is a hidden reservoir of healthy resistance.
I think people become much more cautious and are aware of the risks.
I have spoken with two people who I see regularly for beers. One is 70+ and the other is shielding. Neither will be rushing back to the pub.
Where does that leave you then? Looking for a game of cribbage?
Fortunately I have other friends who will go to the pub. And the ones referred to previously will return - in due course.
So hands up, who is going to miss Prof Peston taking 5 minutes to ask a dumb question that is factually incorrect....
Don't worry about it, he will be a (non) expert in something completely different next week.
I had the dubious pleasure of meeting him once. He is even more arrogant and full of himself in the flesh than he appears in TV. His ridiculous delivery is also largely phoney
You have my sympathies. He seems to be a total prat.
Am I the only one on here who doesn't mind, indeed very much likes all the media folk - Peston, O'Brien, Philips, Morgan, Murray, Robinson, Humphreys, etc. They are all a vital part of holding this government to account and/or shaping the debate.
I don't get the vitriol.
Peston may/may not be OK at holding a government to account over economics.
He is a failure at holding them to account n this crisis. He should give up his seat to a journalist who can understand science.
The vast majority of his readership don't understand science. There were some great questions asked on here (so in theory only) by many including eg @Nigelb but that is very far from being a national journalist asking questions which may appear to have no method but which are designed to tease out responses that matter to and are understood by the man on the Clapham Omnibus.
Except they didn't.
The problem was (and is) that he didn't understand that he didn't know something. See the interview with the medical officer.
American cases are surging, and have been for some time, especially in the South.
And yet, deaths are still gently but steadily declining.
I know "death" is a lagging indicator, but still. I am starting to wonder if the virus simply weakens, after a while. Or there is a hidden reservoir of healthy resistance.
I think people become much more cautious and are aware of the risks.
I have spoken with two people who I see regularly for beers. One is 70+ and the other is shielding. Neither will be rushing back to the pub.
Where does that leave you then? Looking for a game of cribbage?
Fortunately I have other friends who will go to the pub. And the ones referred to previously will return - in due course.
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
I know the effort of waking up every morning in the full expectation that Sturgeon and the SNP are about to have their 13 year long honeymoon ended by the voters is frustrating, but calm down dear.
Your ability to to be eternally Panglossian about the disaster presided over by the podgy Etonian mess while perpetually Eeyoreing about anything done in Scotland really is one of the wonders of nature.
Not sure I recognise that description. I have been very critical of many aspects of the UK government's handling of the virus from testing, tracing, the catastrophe with care homes, the app and others. In contrast I think Nicola did well in April and May but she has fallen seriously behind the curve in June failing to appreciate both the damage to education and to the economy of her dithering. What these graphs show is that Scotland should have been leading the charge out of lockdown instead of being laggards.
Brave call to reopen campsites. The shared spaces - toilets and wash fascilities especially - look guaranteed to be coronavirus hotspots.
Looks like I'll be going to Cornwall in August, though. I wonder how the locals will react to the influx. There have been a lot of reports that they don't want anyone there.
EVERYBODY is going to Cornwall in August. Even me. I have a feeling it will be one of two things - very very good or very very bad.
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
I know the effort of waking up every morning in the full expectation that Sturgeon and the SNP are about to have their 13 year long honeymoon ended by the voters is frustrating, but calm down dear.
Your ability to to be eternally Panglossian about the disaster presided over by the podgy Etonian mess while perpetually Eeyoreing about anything done in Scotland really is one of the wonders of nature.
Not sure I recognise that description. I have been very critical of many aspects of the UK government's handling of the virus from testing, tracing, the catastrophe with care homes, the app and others. In contrast I think Nicola did well in April and May but she has fallen seriously behind the curve in June failing to appreciate both the damage to education and to the economy of her dithering. What these graphs show is that Scotland should have been leading the charge out of lockdown instead of being laggards.
On the contrary, it is the correct strategy to eliminate the virus to a level where the traditional health service track and trace system in Scotland can help stamp it out.
So hands up, who is going to miss Prof Peston taking 5 minutes to ask a dumb question that is factually incorrect....
Don't worry about it, he will be a (non) expert in something completely different next week.
I had the dubious pleasure of meeting him once. He is even more arrogant and full of himself in the flesh than he appears in TV. His ridiculous delivery is also largely phoney
You have my sympathies. He seems to be a total prat.
Am I the only one on here who doesn't mind, indeed very much likes all the media folk - Peston, O'Brien, Philips, Morgan, Murray, Robinson, Humphreys, etc. They are all a vital part of holding this government to account and/or shaping the debate.
I don't get the vitriol.
I agree and so you are not the only one. The problem has been in the answers, not the questions.
On topic. I fear restrictions will need to be re-imposed later in the year as we hit the winter flu seasons with a health system that's creaking at the seams. Which is an argument for loosening up a bit, while we can. We will be living with this thing some time.
Do notice that the UK/English government has completely given up issuing precautionary advice, even of the Stay Alert type.
Brave call to reopen campsites. The shared spaces - toilets and wash fascilities especially - look guaranteed to be coronavirus hotspots.
Looks like I'll be going to Cornwall in August, though. I wonder how the locals will react to the influx. There have been a lot of reports that they don't want anyone there.
So we're going from zero to group wash facilities open with no "Visit your own static but no other site facilities" intermediate step ?
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
I know the effort of waking up every morning in the full expectation that Sturgeon and the SNP are about to have their 13 year long honeymoon ended by the voters is frustrating, but calm down dear.
Your ability to to be eternally Panglossian about the disaster presided over by the podgy Etonian mess while perpetually Eeyoreing about anything done in Scotland really is one of the wonders of nature.
I thought they did have their honeymoon ended by the Once-in-a-Generation Independence referendum? The Scots are kind hearted folk though, they have given the SNP the run of the glorified County Council as a kind of consolation prize.
As long as he doesn't go and hug his great-grandmother (and even if he does, he and she would be aware of the risk) - he and the fellow competitors at that tournament are in the essentially zero risk category.
Why shouldn't they play tennis together?
Because of the people who are asymptomatic and go on to hug their great-grandmother, perhaps?
I have just played in a tennis tournament and been in close proximity to many others. I'd better be careful...
No?
Hope you didn't play Novak?
Thrashed him. He couldn't cope with my infamous "pat ball" technique.
We must play some time. I have a default floated single-handed backhand and a double-fisted flat forehand, which is unusual. I also - get this - have a discombobulating habit of running round my forehand to hit a sliced backhand, my body falling away into the tramlines as the ball dinks over into the forehand court of my opponent, who expecting either a lob or a down the line attempted pass finds himself stranded and losing the point.
But now I've told you, I suppose you won't fall for it.
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
One thing the Government needs to do is a mass advertising campaign to inform people that NHS Hospitals and Local Surgeries are open. The five hospitals that I have information on remain ghost towns. All staff are down to their minimum contract hours and there is no bank work or overtime available. This has meant huge pay cuts for nurses and carers. My wifes income is down 40% and she is hardly at work now, just 5 shifts in a two week period, down from her normal 8-9. When she does go to work there are often more staff than patients. This issue also extends for Doctors and Consultants. You may have noticed the "work for the NHS" advert is no longer being shown. Newly qualified nurses are normally snapped up, this year they will struggle to get employment, hospitals just don't need them. Older nurses are being encouraged to take early retirement.
The lack of demand for the NHS at the moment is incredible.
Take a trip to your local hospital, you will be astonished at what they are like.
No, it is a bloody nightmare. Yes we are quiet, with staff twiddling thumbs, but the problem is that we have no where near enough space to manage social distancing. PPE requirements for procedures mean about half or less of normal productivity.
Patients are mostly wanting to be seen, but we have a high volume, "pile them high, and sell them cheap" approach in normal times, that is incompatible with government instructions on social distancing. There is a real problem with hospitals as foci of transmission, so relaxing the restrictions not possible.
It is driving me crazy trying to get management to let me slip in a few urgent patients.
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
I know the effort of waking up every morning in the full expectation that Sturgeon and the SNP are about to have their 13 year long honeymoon ended by the voters is frustrating, but calm down dear.
Your ability to to be eternally Panglossian about the disaster presided over by the podgy Etonian mess while perpetually Eeyoreing about anything done in Scotland really is one of the wonders of nature.
I thought they did have their honeymoon ended by the Once-in-a-Generation Independence referendum? The Scots are kind hearted folk though, they have given the SNP the run of the glorified County Council as a kind of consolation prize.
And yet those differences in the figures are stunning. THe media have not been discussing this. I am horrified at the magnitude of the discrepancy. What is causing it?
American cases are surging, and have been for some time, especially in the South.
And yet, deaths are still gently but steadily declining.
I know "death" is a lagging indicator, but still. I am starting to wonder if the virus simply weakens, after a while. Or there is a hidden reservoir of healthy resistance.
I think I read somewhere that the ages of those contracting Covid-19 are coming down, which suggests younger people are taking fewer precautions or, if you will, doing their own risk analysis.
Incidentally, I respect your anonymity on this board, as I would prefer mine to be.
Why have councils been putting plans in place for the worst? Why have they been planning? Why couldn't they just blithely carry on as if there wasn't any problems? Wouldn't lackadasical indifference to our children and families have been the best possible option?
Brave call to reopen campsites. The shared spaces - toilets and wash fascilities especially - look guaranteed to be coronavirus hotspots.
Looks like I'll be going to Cornwall in August, though. I wonder how the locals will react to the influx. There have been a lot of reports that they don't want anyone there.
So we're going from zero to group wash facilities open with no "Visit your own static but no other site facilities" intermediate step ?
To be fair, ample hand washing facilities in communal ablutions, indeed that is their purpose.
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
c) is her modus operandi
Quite possible R was higher in Scotland at the time of easing in England - indeed, in the days immediately before the curves for Scotland are flatter than those for England where a decline is more apparent, suggesting that was likely the case.
Brave call to reopen campsites. The shared spaces - toilets and wash fascilities especially - look guaranteed to be coronavirus hotspots.
Looks like I'll be going to Cornwall in August, though. I wonder how the locals will react to the influx. There have been a lot of reports that they don't want anyone there.
So we're going from zero to group wash facilities open with no "Visit your own static but no other site facilities" intermediate step ?
To be fair, ample hand washing facilities in communal ablutions, indeed that is their purpose.
I don't know what they are like nowadays, but my memory of such facilities in the 1960s and 1970s was of cold damp concrete shacks - rather like meat packing factories ...
American cases are surging, and have been for some time, especially in the South.
And yet, deaths are still gently but steadily declining.
I know "death" is a lagging indicator, but still. I am starting to wonder if the virus simply weakens, after a while. Or there is a hidden reservoir of healthy resistance.
I think I read somewhere that the ages of those contracting Covid-19 are coming down, which suggests younger people are taking fewer precautions or, if you will, doing their own risk analysis.
Incidentally, I respect your anonymity on this board, as I would prefer mine to be.
Yes, the Leicester outbreak is amongst younger people in the substantially ethnic east of the city. People returning to work in fairly overcrowded workshops, I reckon.
As long as he doesn't go and hug his great-grandmother (and even if he does, he and she would be aware of the risk) - he and the fellow competitors at that tournament are in the essentially zero risk category.
Why shouldn't they play tennis together?
Because of the people who are asymptomatic and go on to hug their great-grandmother, perhaps?
I have just played in a tennis tournament and been in close proximity to many others. I'd better be careful...
No?
Hope you didn't play Novak?
Thrashed him. He couldn't cope with my infamous "pat ball" technique.
We must play some time. I have a default floated single-handed backhand and a double-fisted flat forehand, which is unusual. I also - get this - have a discombobulating habit of running round my forehand to hit a sliced backhand, my body falling away into the tramlines as the ball dinks over into the forehand court of my opponent, who expecting either a lob or a down the line attempted pass finds himself stranded and losing the point.
But now I've told you, I suppose you won't fall for it.
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
I know the effort of waking up every morning in the full expectation that Sturgeon and the SNP are about to have their 13 year long honeymoon ended by the voters is frustrating, but calm down dear.
Your ability to to be eternally Panglossian about the disaster presided over by the podgy Etonian mess while perpetually Eeyoreing about anything done in Scotland really is one of the wonders of nature.
Not sure I recognise that description. I have been very critical of many aspects of the UK government's handling of the virus from testing, tracing, the catastrophe with care homes, the app and others. In contrast I think Nicola did well in April and May but she has fallen seriously behind the curve in June failing to appreciate both the damage to education and to the economy of her dithering. What these graphs show is that Scotland should have been leading the charge out of lockdown instead of being laggards.
People often don't recognise other people's descriptions of them.
On the PB Toryometer I'd put you somewhere between lodged up BJ's back passage and 'I'm a Tory but these people are a shower of shite'; probably around Big 'trenchant critic of BJ' G level.
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
c) is her modus operandi
Indeed it is but when I was at school doing multiple choice I was always tempted by "all of the above" unless one of them was clearly wrong.
c) is often a function of being (a) and having a natural propensity for (b). Populists and nationalists have much higher than average scores on such measures, as ignorance and lies are seen by them as useful in advancing their general policy of hatred and division on which they thrive.
Brave call to reopen campsites. The shared spaces - toilets and wash fascilities especially - look guaranteed to be coronavirus hotspots.
Looks like I'll be going to Cornwall in August, though. I wonder how the locals will react to the influx. There have been a lot of reports that they don't want anyone there.
So we're going from zero to group wash facilities open with no "Visit your own static but no other site facilities" intermediate step ?
To be fair, ample hand washing facilities in communal ablutions, indeed that is their purpose.
I don't know what they are like nowadays, but my memory of such facilities in the 1960s and 1970s was of cold damp concrete shacks - rather like meat packing factories ...
So hands up, who is going to miss Prof Peston taking 5 minutes to ask a dumb question that is factually incorrect....
Don't worry about it, he will be a (non) expert in something completely different next week.
I had the dubious pleasure of meeting him once. He is even more arrogant and full of himself in the flesh than he appears in TV. His ridiculous delivery is also largely phoney
You have my sympathies. He seems to be a total prat.
Am I the only one on here who doesn't mind, indeed very much likes all the media folk - Peston, O'Brien, Philips, Morgan, Murray, Robinson, Humphreys, etc. They are all a vital part of holding this government to account and/or shaping the debate.
I don't get the vitriol.
Peston may/may not be OK at holding a government to account over economics.
He is a failure at holding them to account n this crisis. He should give up his seat to a journalist who can understand science.
The vast majority of his readership don't understand science. There were some great questions asked on here (so in theory only) by many including eg @Nigelb but that is very far from being a national journalist asking questions which may appear to have no method but which are designed to tease out responses that matter to and are understood by the man on the Clapham Omnibus.
Except they didn't.
The problem was (and is) that he didn't understand that he didn't know something. See the interview with the medical officer.
Maybe. I think he did fine. They all did, and as @FF43 points out, it was the responses, not the questions, that were the problem.
Re the previous thread's discussion of "offensive" Christian images: the amazing thing about the original tweet is that the tweeter is the infamous white guy who pretended to be black, to get ahead in identity politics/punditry
Even though he has been exposed as a total fraud, it has worked for him. He has 1m Twitter followers
Imagine telling yourself 20 years ago that in two decades we will have a worldwide discussion forum angrily debating whether we should remove all images of Jesus and the Blessed Virgin, tear down all statues and smash all windows, because they embody white supremacy, and that debate will be led by a white man who rose to fame my pretending he was black and many people believed him even though he is clearly white.
Right now, it's one of the best ways to get attention from both sides.
If you're a narcissist, why wouldn't you give it a go?
This is why iconoclastic political convulsions are so dangerous: the pioneers at the frontline have to be evermore outrageous to maintain their first-rank status, so you go from guillotining the French king, to guillotining all French nobles to guillotining absolutely anyone who is denounced by anyone else, until the guillotiners themselves get the chop.
Similarly, we have gone from toppling one slave trader statue in Bristol to banning sitcoms and movies, removing windows and murals, defacing depictions of national heroes, and now a suggestion that we literally smash Christian icons - IN ABOUT THREE WEEKS.
It will burn out, of course. But it could get nasty interim
His grammar is so bad: "arrest anyone... with up to 10 years in prison"
Also I am not sure how many of these statues & monuments are Federal property, so it may just be a kind of patriotic virtue-signalling. Might work, nonetheless
It definitely IS virtue signalling (if one allows the sentiments as a virtue). And if it isn't there's a problem - since he appears to be dispensing with the trial stage and going straight for the 10 years of stir. This would be an astonishingly radical reform that surely needs Congress to sign off on at the very least.
It's hot air. However, it does signal some belated pushback, and it is quite an adroit political move.
This iconoclasm is going much further than many expected and lots of Americans are now nervous and unhappy. The idea of tearing down Christian images will be particularly repulsive to millions. Trump taking a stand - however egregious - is good for shoring up his base, and it throws the issue back to the Democrats: what does Biden think of it all? Is he OK with some statue-toppling, or all of it?
Is it fair to call this moment of concentrated opposition to endemic racism in America the iconoclasm?
It doesn't sound quite right to me. It sounds good, yes, but not quite right.
Let the party that has not completely mismanaged their Return to School policy be the first to cast their stone...
I will say this for the Scottish Government. They set a realistic date so that the issues can be worked through and made the effort to get the various stakeholders - parents, teachers and councils - on board. In total contrast to .... I don't know who?
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
I know the effort of waking up every morning in the full expectation that Sturgeon and the SNP are about to have their 13 year long honeymoon ended by the voters is frustrating, but calm down dear.
Your ability to to be eternally Panglossian about the disaster presided over by the podgy Etonian mess while perpetually Eeyoreing about anything done in Scotland really is one of the wonders of nature.
I thought they did have their honeymoon ended by the Once-in-a-Generation Independence referendum? The Scots are kind hearted folk though, they have given the SNP the run of the glorified County Council as a kind of consolation prize.
And yet those differences in the figures are stunning. THe media have not been discussing this. I am horrified at the magnitude of the discrepancy. What is causing it?
Simplest explanation is that the lockdown in England has released a notch faster than in Scotland, so has tended to be a bit softer. So the virus has been squashed a bit less hard.
And whilst the fall in cases in England is good news, it has been noticeably slower than almost everywhere else in Europe... except Sweden, funnily enough.
And all of those peaks that didn't happen, the dogs that didn't bark... maybe they are there, just stretched out into a fatter tail. You can make an economic case for either strategy. Is it better to have a period of ongoing distancing at a few thousand infections a day, or really reduce the numbers so that you just reopen with no distancing?
Re the previous thread's discussion of "offensive" Christian images: the amazing thing about the original tweet is that the tweeter is the infamous white guy who pretended to be black, to get ahead in identity politics/punditry
Even though he has been exposed as a total fraud, it has worked for him. He has 1m Twitter followers
Imagine telling yourself 20 years ago that in two decades we will have a worldwide discussion forum angrily debating whether we should remove all images of Jesus and the Blessed Virgin, tear down all statues and smash all windows, because they embody white supremacy, and that debate will be led by a white man who rose to fame my pretending he was black and many people believed him even though he is clearly white.
Right now, it's one of the best ways to get attention from both sides.
If you're a narcissist, why wouldn't you give it a go?
This is why iconoclastic political convulsions are so dangerous: the pioneers at the frontline have to be evermore outrageous to maintain their first-rank status, so you go from guillotining the French king, to guillotining all French nobles to guillotining absolutely anyone who is denounced by anyone else, until the guillotiners themselves get the chop.
Similarly, we have gone from toppling one slave trader statue in Bristol to banning sitcoms and movies, removing windows and murals, defacing depictions of national heroes, and now a suggestion that we literally smash Christian icons - IN ABOUT THREE WEEKS.
It will burn out, of course. But it could get nasty interim
His grammar is so bad: "arrest anyone... with up to 10 years in prison"
Also I am not sure how many of these statues & monuments are Federal property, so it may just be a kind of patriotic virtue-signalling. Might work, nonetheless
It definitely IS virtue signalling (if one allows the sentiments as a virtue). And if it isn't there's a problem - since he appears to be dispensing with the trial stage and going straight for the 10 years of stir. This would be an astonishingly radical reform that surely needs Congress to sign off on at the very least.
It's hot air. However, it does signal some belated pushback, and it is quite an adroit political move.
This iconoclasm is going much further than many expected and lots of Americans are now nervous and unhappy. The idea of tearing down Christian images will be particularly repulsive to millions. Trump taking a stand - however egregious - is good for shoring up his base, and it throws the issue back to the Democrats: what does Biden think of it all? Is he OK with some statue-toppling, or all of it?
Is it fair to call this moment of concentrated opposition to endemic racism in America the iconoclasm?
It doesn't sound quite right to me. It sounds good, yes, but not quite right.
Surely the word "Iconoclasm" specifically refers to smashing of Christian images? Originally in a Byzantine context, but repeated on a number of occasions over the years. Worship God, not graven images etc etc.
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
I know the effort of waking up every morning in the full expectation that Sturgeon and the SNP are about to have their 13 year long honeymoon ended by the voters is frustrating, but calm down dear.
Your ability to to be eternally Panglossian about the disaster presided over by the podgy Etonian mess while perpetually Eeyoreing about anything done in Scotland really is one of the wonders of nature.
Not sure I recognise that description. I have been very critical of many aspects of the UK government's handling of the virus from testing, tracing, the catastrophe with care homes, the app and others. In contrast I think Nicola did well in April and May but she has fallen seriously behind the curve in June failing to appreciate both the damage to education and to the economy of her dithering. What these graphs show is that Scotland should have been leading the charge out of lockdown instead of being laggards.
People often don't recognise other people's descriptions of them.
On the PB Toryometer I'd put you somewhere between lodged up BJ's back passage and 'I'm a Tory but these people are a shower of shite'; probably around Big 'trenchant critic of BJ' G level.
I guess you are on the PB Natometer of almost Malcolm-The-SNP-Can-Do-No-Wrong-g, . Admittedly not quite so angry, pigheaded and ineloquent, but still very much a Scottish produced gammon, just slightly less potent in flavour? But perhaps you will prove me wrong in response lol?
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
c) is her modus operandi
Quite possible R was higher in Scotland at the time of easing in England - indeed, in the days immediately before the curves for Scotland are flatter than those for England where a decline is more apparent, suggesting that was likely the case.
I think whatever the R value was she would feel the need to do something to grab a headline. She and Bozo are little different. Both play with nationalism and division for their own egos.
Brave call to reopen campsites. The shared spaces - toilets and wash fascilities especially - look guaranteed to be coronavirus hotspots.
Looks like I'll be going to Cornwall in August, though. I wonder how the locals will react to the influx. There have been a lot of reports that they don't want anyone there.
So we're going from zero to group wash facilities open with no "Visit your own static but no other site facilities" intermediate step ?
To be fair, ample hand washing facilities in communal ablutions, indeed that is their purpose.
I don't know what they are like nowadays, but my memory of such facilities in the 1960s and 1970s was of cold damp concrete shacks - rather like meat packing factories ...
Can't understand why entirely self contained units weren't allowed to open before the whole shebang tho.
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
I know the effort of waking up every morning in the full expectation that Sturgeon and the SNP are about to have their 13 year long honeymoon ended by the voters is frustrating, but calm down dear.
Your ability to to be eternally Panglossian about the disaster presided over by the podgy Etonian mess while perpetually Eeyoreing about anything done in Scotland really is one of the wonders of nature.
Not sure I recognise that description. I have been very critical of many aspects of the UK government's handling of the virus from testing, tracing, the catastrophe with care homes, the app and others. In contrast I think Nicola did well in April and May but she has fallen seriously behind the curve in June failing to appreciate both the damage to education and to the economy of her dithering. What these graphs show is that Scotland should have been leading the charge out of lockdown instead of being laggards.
People often don't recognise other people's descriptions of them.
On the PB Toryometer I'd put you somewhere between lodged up BJ's back passage and 'I'm a Tory but these people are a shower of shite'; probably around Big 'trenchant critic of BJ' G level.
I guess you are on the PB Natometer of almost Malcolm-The-SNP-Can-Do-No-Wrong-g, . Admittedly not quite so angry, pigheaded and ineloquent, but still very much a Scottish produced gammon, just slightly less potent in flavour? But perhaps you will prove me wrong in response lol?
I though I'd said in a previous post that I tend to put your overblown, badly written guff in the ignore column? Apologies if I didn't, I'll put it on record now.
Brave call to reopen campsites. The shared spaces - toilets and wash fascilities especially - look guaranteed to be coronavirus hotspots.
Looks like I'll be going to Cornwall in August, though. I wonder how the locals will react to the influx. There have been a lot of reports that they don't want anyone there.
So we're going from zero to group wash facilities open with no "Visit your own static but no other site facilities" intermediate step ?
To be fair, ample hand washing facilities in communal ablutions, indeed that is their purpose.
I don't know what they are like nowadays, but my memory of such facilities in the 1960s and 1970s was of cold damp concrete shacks - rather like meat packing factories ...
There are fewer of the damp, cold concrete shacks, with only cold running water. Many sites have heated shower blocks, and some of the better ones have fridges. Though wild camping in Scotland still presents a problem if you forget to pack a trowel and something for the midges.
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
I know the effort of waking up every morning in the full expectation that Sturgeon and the SNP are about to have their 13 year long honeymoon ended by the voters is frustrating, but calm down dear.
Your ability to to be eternally Panglossian about the disaster presided over by the podgy Etonian mess while perpetually Eeyoreing about anything done in Scotland really is one of the wonders of nature.
I thought they did have their honeymoon ended by the Once-in-a-Generation Independence referendum? The Scots are kind hearted folk though, they have given the SNP the run of the glorified County Council as a kind of consolation prize.
And yet those differences in the figures are stunning. THe media have not been discussing this. I am horrified at the magnitude of the discrepancy. What is causing it?
Simplest explanation is that the lockdown in England has released a notch faster than in Scotland, so has tended to be a bit softer. So the virus has been squashed a bit less hard.
And whilst the fall in cases in England is good news, it has been noticeably slower than almost everywhere else in Europe... except Sweden, funnily enough.
And all of those peaks that didn't happen, the dogs that didn't bark... maybe they are there, just stretched out into a fatter tail. You can make an economic case for either strategy. Is it better to have a period of ongoing distancing at a few thousand infections a day, or really reduce the numbers so that you just reopen with no distancing?
"A few thousand" would of course be on an England scale, but even after allowing for population numbers a quick mental calculation suggests a differential ratio of about 5 in Scotland's favour (worse for deaths, but those are always time-lagged with a delay after catching the bug and going to hospital). So I'm wondering if you are right and the dogs are actually en bloc in one solid pack.
Brave call to reopen campsites. The shared spaces - toilets and wash fascilities especially - look guaranteed to be coronavirus hotspots.
Looks like I'll be going to Cornwall in August, though. I wonder how the locals will react to the influx. There have been a lot of reports that they don't want anyone there.
So we're going from zero to group wash facilities open with no "Visit your own static but no other site facilities" intermediate step ?
To be fair, ample hand washing facilities in communal ablutions, indeed that is their purpose.
I don't know what they are like nowadays, but my memory of such facilities in the 1960s and 1970s was of cold damp concrete shacks - rather like meat packing factories ...
There are fewer of the damp, cold concrete shacks, with only cold running water. Many sites have heated shower blocks, and some of the better ones have fridges. Though wild camping in Scotland still presents a problem if you forget to pack a trowel and something for the midges.
I still have my aluminium trowel and chemical-impregnated headnet ...
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
I know the effort of waking up every morning in the full expectation that Sturgeon and the SNP are about to have their 13 year long honeymoon ended by the voters is frustrating, but calm down dear.
Your ability to to be eternally Panglossian about the disaster presided over by the podgy Etonian mess while perpetually Eeyoreing about anything done in Scotland really is one of the wonders of nature.
I thought they did have their honeymoon ended by the Once-in-a-Generation Independence referendum? The Scots are kind hearted folk though, they have given the SNP the run of the glorified County Council as a kind of consolation prize.
And yet those differences in the figures are stunning. THe media have not been discussing this. I am horrified at the magnitude of the discrepancy. What is causing it?
A possible explanation:
1. Scotland had fewer active cases at the time lockdown started than many parts of England. Hard to know for certain given the lack of testing at the time but the data are not inconsistent with this.
2. Both Scotland and the SW of England (which also, bar a specific and controlled outbreak in Devon, had similarly few cases at the start of the outbreak) have seen similar reductions in deaths and cases over the last few weeks (actually the average in SW England is perhaps lower than Scotland). The number of cases / fatalities is higher elsewhere in specific parts of England / Wales.
3. The excess of deaths and the higher R in Scotland prior to mid May was largely driven by nursing homes cases (47% of COVID19 deaths in Scotland have been in nursing homes, as per the latest NRS report; this compares to 29.7% in England and Wales as per the ONS report from this morning). As a measure, R, is very sensitive to such outbreaks. Once these nursing home cases were finally under control the community cases in Scotland were at such a low rate that the deaths fell off very quickly. As mentioned above, the fall off in SW England has been highly similar.
4. The real scandal (arguably even more of a scandal if there were indeed a smaller number of initial cases) was the way infected patients were moved from hospitals back to nursing homes. This has been awful in both Scotland and England.
I must have missed the bit where you set up politicalbetting.com and established all the rules, and also the moment when you established a secret telepathic link to all the commenters so you could know what they all think at any given moment.
If you want to knock yourself out, you pompous old bladder, why not have a poll of the commenters and lurkers, and see if they want people to cease commenting and remain silent, if they can't reveal their identities?
You cannot be SeanT by simple logic
- I never agree with SeanT on anything. - I have now wound up agreeing with you twice - You cannot therefore be Sean
Personally speaking, whilst I do reveal bits of my life on here, I am careful about what I reveal and I have changed one or two minor details for my own privacy. Nonetheless, what I have disclosed to other PBers via email or PM, I trust them to keep it private as I do on their behalf for information they have disclosed to me.
No-one seems to give a rats ass about my identity.
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
I know the effort of waking up every morning in the full expectation that Sturgeon and the SNP are about to have their 13 year long honeymoon ended by the voters is frustrating, but calm down dear.
Your ability to to be eternally Panglossian about the disaster presided over by the podgy Etonian mess while perpetually Eeyoreing about anything done in Scotland really is one of the wonders of nature.
Not sure I recognise that description. I have been very critical of many aspects of the UK government's handling of the virus from testing, tracing, the catastrophe with care homes, the app and others. In contrast I think Nicola did well in April and May but she has fallen seriously behind the curve in June failing to appreciate both the damage to education and to the economy of her dithering. What these graphs show is that Scotland should have been leading the charge out of lockdown instead of being laggards.
People often don't recognise other people's descriptions of them.
On the PB Toryometer I'd put you somewhere between lodged up BJ's back passage and 'I'm a Tory but these people are a shower of shite'; probably around Big 'trenchant critic of BJ' G level.
I guess you are on the PB Natometer of almost Malcolm-The-SNP-Can-Do-No-Wrong-g, . Admittedly not quite so angry, pigheaded and ineloquent, but still very much a Scottish produced gammon, just slightly less potent in flavour? But perhaps you will prove me wrong in response lol?
I though I'd said in a previous post that I tend to put your overblown, badly written guff in the ignore column? Apologies if I didn't, I'll put it on record now.
Oh, whatever you might say, my posts are rarely badly written; that is just a poor response as you are unable to engage with argument that confuses your nationalistic backward looking world view. You are though, I grant you, slightly more eloquent than your thuggish comrade in bullshit (not a terribly high bar), but equally unconvincing.
American cases are surging, and have been for some time, especially in the South.
And yet, deaths are still gently but steadily declining.
I know "death" is a lagging indicator, but still. I am starting to wonder if the virus simply weakens, after a while. Or there is a hidden reservoir of healthy resistance.
I think people become much more cautious and are aware of the risks.
I have spoken with two people who I see regularly for beers. One is 70+ and the other is shielding. Neither will be rushing back to the pub.
Which likely answers Sean's question about the apparent lower death rates in the US.
Sigh. I am not SeanT.
Did I say you were ?
You implied it, and, to be honest, it is getting boring. Trying to identify or misidentify people on a site who clearly prefer to be anonymous is simply bad manners, and it puts people off contributing in the end. Stop, please. Thanks
Best advice to anyone seeking to remain anonymous is to stop reposting those posts that identify you with transparently false denials.
Whatever. I asked nicely. Please stop now. Thanks
People will stop challenging you if you stop denying (and hence reposting) the obvious. Just ignore it, like they told you at school.
I am not SeanT. Now please stop. Thanks.
Correct! I am in fact SeanT. I even have a 20-something Corbynista wife to prove it!
It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.
So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
I know the effort of waking up every morning in the full expectation that Sturgeon and the SNP are about to have their 13 year long honeymoon ended by the voters is frustrating, but calm down dear.
Your ability to to be eternally Panglossian about the disaster presided over by the podgy Etonian mess while perpetually Eeyoreing about anything done in Scotland really is one of the wonders of nature.
I thought they did have their honeymoon ended by the Once-in-a-Generation Independence referendum? The Scots are kind hearted folk though, they have given the SNP the run of the glorified County Council as a kind of consolation prize.
And yet those differences in the figures are stunning. THe media have not been discussing this. I am horrified at the magnitude of the discrepancy. What is causing it?
A possible explanation:
1. Scotland had fewer active cases at the time lockdown started than many parts of England. Hard to know for certain given the lack of testing at the time but the data are not inconsistent with this.
2. Both Scotland and the SW of England (which also, bar a specific and controlled outbreak in Devon, had similarly few cases at the start of the outbreak) have seen similar reductions in deaths and cases over the last few weeks (actually the average in SW England is perhaps lower than Scotland). The number of cases / fatalities is higher elsewhere in specific parts of England / Wales.
3. The excess of deaths and the higher R in Scotland prior to mid May was largely driven by nursing homes cases (47% of COVID19 deaths in Scotland have been in nursing homes, as per the latest NRS report; this compares to 29.7% in England and Wales as per the ONS report from this morning). As a measure, R, is very sensitive to such outbreaks. Once these nursing home cases were finally under control the community cases in Scotland were at such a low rate that the deaths fell off very quickly. As mentioned above, the fall off in SW England has been highly similar.
4. The real scandal (arguably even more of a scandal if there were indeed a smaller number of initial cases) was the way infected patients were moved from hospitals back to nursing homes. This has been awful in both Scotland and England.
Thank you - some good points and questions (though the previous English underrrporting of covid deaths could affect the comparative nursing home ratios, of course). It will be very interesting to see what develops with study.
The LibDem leadership contest looks interesting. Three very different candidates offering different directions:
Lalya "don't slap me" Morgan wants to tack to the left of what she assumes will be a pretty centrist Labour Party. Even if they were that would put the LibDems way off to the left. And as I suspect Starmer isn't as centre line as imagined then its a loooong way left. I like Layla, but she assaulted her partner and has a glorious air of odd about her.
Wera Hobhouse. Ex-Rochdale (marks off at the start) wants a clean break from the Coalition years and restart as a centre left party. Lots of pro-EU pro-PR stuff. Red meat to the Social Democrat wing of the party but the least convincing leadership candidate you can imagine
Ed Davey. Took on the Tories and won. Offers vision experience and leadership, and wants to spend £lots on a green revolution to "build back better" after the pandemic. For me the most convincing of the three by a long way - using the coalition as a selling point makes sense. 'All the good things done in government? Done by the LibDems. All the bad things? That was the Tories and think how bad it would have been if we hadn't been there to fight them'
I'm certainly back in the LibDem camp now that my mental challenges from lockdown are behind me. Question is do I wait and see who wins the contest (not worth it if Vera Carboard Box wins) or rejoin to vote for Davey?
One wonders whether you are toying with returning to the LibDems simply because Labour wasn’t as overjoyed with your membership reapplication as you might have anticipated?
Carry on like this and you won’t be welcome anywhere. The cost to a party of a defection is always higher than the benefit of one extra member.
And whatsoever King may reign I'll still be the Vicar of Bray, Sir.
After around 50 years supporting, and often often working for Libs and then the LbDems I was horrified by what Clegg, Davey and Co put up with in the Coalition, and by the way they stood by Cameron and Osborne to the bitter end, only to be well and truly shafted. Take quite a lot to get me back.
American cases are surging, and have been for some time, especially in the South.
And yet, deaths are still gently but steadily declining.
I know "death" is a lagging indicator, but still. I am starting to wonder if the virus simply weakens, after a while. Or there is a hidden reservoir of healthy resistance.
I think people become much more cautious and are aware of the risks.
I have spoken with two people who I see regularly for beers. One is 70+ and the other is shielding. Neither will be rushing back to the pub.
Which likely answers Sean's question about the apparent lower death rates in the US.
Sigh. I am not SeanT.
Did I say you were ?
You implied it, and, to be honest, it is getting boring. Trying to identify or misidentify people on a site who clearly prefer to be anonymous is simply bad manners, and it puts people off contributing in the end. Stop, please. Thanks
Best advice to anyone seeking to remain anonymous is to stop reposting those posts that identify you with transparently false denials.
Whatever. I asked nicely. Please stop now. Thanks
People will stop challenging you if you stop denying (and hence reposting) the obvious. Just ignore it, like they told you at school.
I am not SeanT. Now please stop. Thanks.
Correct! I am in fact SeanT. I even have a 20-something Corbynista wife to prove it!
American cases are surging, and have been for some time, especially in the South.
And yet, deaths are still gently but steadily declining.
I know "death" is a lagging indicator, but still. I am starting to wonder if the virus simply weakens, after a while. Or there is a hidden reservoir of healthy resistance.
I think people become much more cautious and are aware of the risks.
I have spoken with two people who I see regularly for beers. One is 70+ and the other is shielding. Neither will be rushing back to the pub.
Which likely answers Sean's question about the apparent lower death rates in the US.
Sigh. I am not SeanT.
Did I say you were ?
You implied it, and, to be honest, it is getting boring. Trying to identify or misidentify people on a site who clearly prefer to be anonymous is simply bad manners, and it puts people off contributing in the end. Stop, please. Thanks
Best advice to anyone seeking to remain anonymous is to stop reposting those posts that identify you with transparently false denials.
Whatever. I asked nicely. Please stop now. Thanks
People will stop challenging you if you stop denying (and hence reposting) the obvious. Just ignore it, like they told you at school.
I am not SeanT. Now please stop. Thanks.
Correct! I am in fact SeanT. I even have a 20-something Corbynista wife to prove it!
I am SeanT and so is my wife
My wife is a 40-something Corbynista so I myst be SeanT twice over!
On the subject of nuclear explosions, do you know what the fastest man made object is (or was)?
Is this going to be a racist sexist and generally reprehensible joke?
No.
it's an interesting factoid.
If you want a racist, sexist, and generally reprehensible joke, I can do that too. But as this is a family website, I tend not to do that kind of thin.
Comments
This is sometimes described - although not by me - as winning the argument.
Interesting that Tesco are putting employees to the sword like this - similar treatment for shielders who are being told go back to work or else. Then we have their strategy for suppliers - they are coming to the trade with their big stick demanding monies with menaces. Fun times!
Hats off to the Telegraph for the headline "Protestors try to topple president's statue outside White House".
Latest prices: Biden 1.715, Trump 2.75.
https://twitter.com/TonyMcKelvie/status/1275399046103007232?s=20
https://twitter.com/TonyMcKelvie/status/1275413513159262208
Lets be honest - they were probably right to block me, I wasn't joining out of enthusiasm for Starmer or the party as such, but fancied "normal" and a fight with the trots seemed better than sitting in my cage building the LibDems locally. I've since made it up with the local LibDems who have given me an open invitation to come back when I am ready.
https://twitter.com/iainjwatson/status/1275428715619647489
I don't get the vitriol.
Johnson and Corbyn could not be further away from Thatcher and Blair.
He is a failure at holding them to account n this crisis. He should give up his seat to a journalist who can understand science.
Time for my periodic reminder - 3.5 by Sept, 5 by eve of election.
If you want to lay Trump with a 2 handle, do not hang about.
If you want to back him, wait, wait, wait a bit longer - and then don't.
- I never agree with SeanT on anything.
- I have now wound up agreeing with you twice
- You cannot therefore be Sean
Personally speaking, whilst I do reveal bits of my life on here, I am careful about what I reveal and I have changed one or two minor details for my own privacy. Nonetheless, what I have disclosed to other PBers via email or PM, I trust them to keep it private as I do on their behalf for information they have disclosed to me.
The tragedy of progressive politics in the UK is the way the voting system prevents Labour ever being replaced.
Your ability to to be eternally Panglossian about the disaster presided over by the podgy Etonian mess while perpetually Eeyoreing about anything done in Scotland really is one of the wonders of nature.
But the answer is seemingly (e) because the deviation of the numbers simply hadn't happened then (edit: aboput the time of the first lockdown release in England). Mr McKelvie has posted an interesting pair of graphs - he emphasises that the deviation isn't simply due to lockdown relaxation, thogh does not say what other factors he thinks caused it. One obvious possibility is the underrreporting of English covid deaths compared to Scotland where the reported figures for covid deaths (NRS, weekly data) were much closer to excess deaths for time of year (as we on PB have discussed on and off over the last two months). That deviation would be about the time when the discrepancy between the two figures in Englandf started to reduce.
https://twitter.com/TonyMcKelvie/status/1275421494085115906
https://twitter.com/TonyMcKelvie/status/1275400835346894848
You may have noticed the "work for the NHS" advert is no longer being shown. Newly qualified nurses are normally snapped up, this year they will struggle to get employment, hospitals just don't need them. Older nurses are being encouraged to take early retirement.
The lack of demand for the NHS at the moment is incredible.
Take a trip to your local hospital, you will be astonished at what they are like.
The problem was (and is) that he didn't understand that he didn't know something. See the interview with the medical officer.
On topic. I fear restrictions will need to be re-imposed later in the year as we hit the winter flu seasons with a health system that's creaking at the seams. Which is an argument for loosening up a bit, while we can. We will be living with this thing some time.
Do notice that the UK/English government has completely given up issuing precautionary advice, even of the Stay Alert type.
But now I've told you, I suppose you won't fall for it.
You can see his utterly self conscious inwards cringe as he says it too.
Patients are mostly wanting to be seen, but we have a high volume, "pile them high, and sell them cheap" approach in normal times, that is incompatible with government instructions on social distancing. There is a real problem with hospitals as foci of transmission, so relaxing the restrictions not possible.
It is driving me crazy trying to get management to let me slip in a few urgent patients.
Incidentally, I respect your anonymity on this board, as I would prefer mine to be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7P30El1kKc
On the PB Toryometer I'd put you somewhere between lodged up BJ's back passage and 'I'm a Tory but these people are a shower of shite'; probably around Big 'trenchant critic of BJ' G level.
It doesn't sound quite right to me. It sounds good, yes, but not quite right.
I will say this for the Scottish Government. They set a realistic date so that the issues can be worked through and made the effort to get the various stakeholders - parents, teachers and councils - on board. In total contrast to .... I don't know who?
And whilst the fall in cases in England is good news, it has been noticeably slower than almost everywhere else in Europe... except Sweden, funnily enough.
And all of those peaks that didn't happen, the dogs that didn't bark... maybe they are there, just stretched out into a fatter tail. You can make an economic case for either strategy. Is it better to have a period of ongoing distancing at a few thousand infections a day, or really reduce the numbers so that you just reopen with no distancing?
https://twitter.com/MarinaHyde/status/1275433781097357313?s=20
https://twitter.com/JamieGlackin1/status/1275145708987965443?s=20
https://twitter.com/atomicarchive/status/1275182823947882501?s=19
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2246693-uk-citizens-assembly-shows-big-support-for-green-covid-19-recovery/?utm_campaign=RSS|NSNS&utm_source=NSNS&utm_medium=RSS&utm_content=news
https://mcusercontent.com/ca678077bc522bd7bd74bacbf/files/96f8852b-a896-41ba-82b0-1bd5e9aa064a/HHP_June20_pdf.pdf
1. Scotland had fewer active cases at the time lockdown started than many parts of England. Hard to know for certain given the lack of testing at the time but the data are not inconsistent with this.
2. Both Scotland and the SW of England (which also, bar a specific and controlled outbreak in Devon, had similarly few cases at the start of the outbreak) have seen similar reductions in deaths and cases over the last few weeks (actually the average in SW England is perhaps lower than Scotland). The number of cases / fatalities is higher elsewhere in specific parts of England / Wales.
3. The excess of deaths and the higher R in Scotland prior to mid May was largely driven by nursing homes cases (47% of COVID19 deaths in Scotland have been in nursing homes, as per the latest NRS report; this compares to 29.7% in England and Wales as per the ONS report from this morning). As a measure, R, is very sensitive to such outbreaks. Once these nursing home cases were finally under control the community cases in Scotland were at such a low rate that the deaths fell off very quickly. As mentioned above, the fall off in SW England has been highly similar.
4. The real scandal (arguably even more of a scandal if there were indeed a smaller number of initial cases) was the way infected patients were moved from hospitals back to nursing homes. This has been awful in both Scotland and England.
Hurtful.
That must have got you pretty gammoned I bet?
Non-weekend day with under 1000 new cases. The reopening coming just on time with this level of reduction.
After around 50 years supporting, and often often working for Libs and then the LbDems I was horrified by what Clegg, Davey and Co put up with in the Coalition, and by the way they stood by Cameron and Osborne to the bitter end, only to be well and truly shafted.
Take quite a lot to get me back.
it's an interesting factoid.
If you want a racist, sexist, and generally reprehensible joke, I can do that too. But as this is a family website, I tend not to do that kind of thin.