Starmer plays politics well by refusing to back a Brexit extension so he can watch the Government hang itself.
We are awaiting for Starmer to come up with some constructive input rather than saying 'it's all bad'. Looks like LAB will be looking for another new leader when Starmer loses at next GE!
Oppositions are there to oppose and hold the government to account
I think this opposition will be opposition for quite a while longer - when CON were in opposition we were always coming up with constructive sensible alternatives, haven't seen much of that from Starmer.
Sean and his acolytes do not only post their bollox on here, but even by his standards this is absolute barking Little Englander claptrap. ...............
Englishmen are returning to work to do the jobs and pay the taxes that provide the money - for Scotsmen to stay at home. Which also means Englishmen will die so that Scotsmen may live. https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1259789580875726849
If Sturgeon wants to lock down Scotland for longer she should be free to do so. And if that isn't covered by Barnett consequentials then Sturgeon can raise taxes if need be.
Do you think Sunak should fund all the coronavirus measures from taxation?
He just thinks the uppity Scots should be taught a lesson , how dare they have an opinion other than that from the great leader in Westminster. Thinks we live off the largesse they give us for free and we do not grovel enough.
So today I’ve missed the first Credit Card payment of my life. I’ve paid it as soon as I received the “missed payment” email. What repercussions is this likely to have?
Sean and his acolytes do not only post their bollox on here, but even by his standards this is absolute barking Little Englander claptrap. ...............
Englishmen are returning to work to do the jobs and pay the taxes that provide the money - for Scotsmen to stay at home. Which also means Englishmen will die so that Scotsmen may live. https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1259789580875726849
If Sturgeon wants to lock down Scotland for longer she should be free to do so. And if that isn't covered by Barnett consequentials then Sturgeon can raise taxes if need be.
Pity she does not have any control over taxes as that is retained by Westminster. Try to engage your brain Philip. Your Little Englander threats are pretty childish, why not Bozo the clown just declare Scotland as independent.
That's an idea! If Scotland goes independent and cannot rely on English money to bail it out then Sturgeon will certainly have to put taxes up!
On schools, it's worth noting again that something like 20% of children are eligible still to go to school right now, but fewer than 1% actually do.
The government is going to need to create some demand again among parents for schooling. Just reopening the schools, even year by year, may not be enough.
My sister is working at one of the hubs and attendance is very poor but what they are offering is child care not education. There are no formal classes and a wide range of ages are looked after together.
Sean and his acolytes do not only post their bollox on here, but even by his standards this is absolute barking Little Englander claptrap. ...............
Englishmen are returning to work to do the jobs and pay the taxes that provide the money - for Scotsmen to stay at home. Which also means Englishmen will die so that Scotsmen may live. https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1259789580875726849
If Sturgeon wants to lock down Scotland for longer she should be free to do so. And if that isn't covered by Barnett consequentials then Sturgeon can raise taxes if need be.
Do you think Sunak should fund all the coronavirus measures from taxation?
He just thinks the uppity Scots should be taught a lesson , how dare they have an opinion other than that from the great leader in Westminster. Thinks we live off the largesse they give us for free and we do not grovel enough.
Not at all. I think the Scots should do what the Scots want to do and make their own choices.
I think you're big enough to look after yourselves. Am I wrong?
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
It's not concern, it's faux outrageux from people who would give Boris no credit if thins went right and jump on every perceived error as if its a catastrophe
And why should they do one or the other? They are phasing something out, it's entirely the right thing to do tread the middle path. They dont want people to be as locked in as they were nor go out like everything is ok, so cautious tiptoeing out is what they want, and looks like what theyre getting
Starmer plays politics well by refusing to back a Brexit extension so he can watch the Government hang itself.
We are awaiting for Starmer to come up with some constructive input rather than saying 'it's all bad'. Looks like LAB will be looking for another new leader when Starmer loses at next GE!
Oppositions are there to oppose and hold the government to account
At all times? So in war the Opposition should help our enemies because after all 'Oppositions are there to oppose'? Surely not.
There are exceptions to every axiom, and a once-in-a-century pandemic should definitely be one.
Starmer plays politics well by refusing to back a Brexit extension so he can watch the Government hang itself.
We are awaiting for Starmer to come up with some constructive input rather than saying 'it's all bad'. Looks like LAB will be looking for another new leader when Starmer loses at next GE!
Oppositions are there to oppose and hold the government to account
One is reminded of the Monty Python sketch: "This is not an argument, it's just contradiction."
Sean and his acolytes do not only post their bollox on here, but even by his standards this is absolute barking Little Englander claptrap. ...............
Englishmen are returning to work to do the jobs and pay the taxes that provide the money - for Scotsmen to stay at home. Which also means Englishmen will die so that Scotsmen may live. https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1259789580875726849
If Sturgeon wants to lock down Scotland for longer she should be free to do so. And if that isn't covered by Barnett consequentials then Sturgeon can raise taxes if need be.
Pity she does not have any control over taxes as that is retained by Westminster. Try to engage your brain Philip. Your Little Englander threats are pretty childish, why not Bozo the clown just declare Scotland as independent.
Some taxes are retained in Westminster, many are in Scotland and Sturgeon has the power to change taxes.
No threats. Scotland should do what it wants to do and pay for it accordingly how it wants to do so. I do believe Scotland should be independent.
So today I’ve missed the first Credit Card payment of my life. I’ve paid it as soon as I received the “missed payment” email. What repercussions is this likely to have?
Ring them. Apologise. Point out how they have always had their cash on time. Ask them to waive the late payment fee. Then forget about it
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
It's not concern, it's faux outrageux from people who would give Boris no credit if thins went right and jump on every perceived error as if its a catastrophe
And why should they do one or the other? They are phasing something out, it's entirely the right thing to do tread the middle path
They're not treading a middle path. Are they advising or not?
Didn't we also have this 'confusion' bollocks in mid-March when the lockdown was first rolled out? You still had journos saying 'so what if someone needs to do this' and 'what if someone needs to do that?' Now that very same iteration of the lockdown is being held up as some sort of paragon of clarity. Maybe some people are confused because they didn't watch last night's broadcast and are relying on the BBC and the newspapers to report the facts acurately and dispassionately? Which of course would be a mistake.
While this has clearly gone down less well than the first lockdown instructions, we had the same grumblings of "confusion" then. To an extent inevitably, with the government respecifying our complete way of life and all our interpersonal interactions, often on a surprisingly weak evidential basis (eg how little is known about modes of transmission). Most people, at least eventually, understood "STAY AT HOME" to mean "you don't have to stay at home 24/7 unless you're shielding, going out is okay for work if your workplace is open and safe and you can't WFH, occasionally to the shops for supplies and - up to once daily - for exercise" even though the latter points all muddle the three-word take-home. Critical commentators were pointing out the contradiction between "stay at home" and "daily outdoor exercise" from the start.
The hours of media coverage over what is/isn't allowed is an interesting point, because eventually words can mean what you want them to mean - so long as you've got a big comms team behind you and can place lots of public information films and ads and drive the media narrative somewhat, and especially if you pick a message and just keep drilling it home. Does HMG have the discipline and will the media play ball this time?
Once people are spending more time outside home, the messaging really needs to adapt to that and focus on just what those people should be doing when outside. Hopefully from HMG's point of view, "STAY ALERT" doesn't just emphasise that it's too early for complacency, but also provides a suitably omni-purpose skeleton onto which whatever meaning they wish to flesh it out with can be grafted via message repetition. Whether that's sticking to the 2m rule, no mingling with folk from other households, careful what you touch, follow all safety precautions at work, perhaps eventually in certain circumstances "don't forget your mask/gloves"... "stay at home where possible" will be part of that mix too, just now only one part of it.
In that respect "stay alert" may prove a decent slogan, it sounds pretty heavy stuff - something we need to take seriously - and to the extent it's vacuous or lacks substance and form, that also yields the plus point that it's flexible and free to be shaped and defined as the government require. My worry is that staying at home where possible, even eschewing your right to outdoor exercise, is the biggest single thing you can do to control your risk and the risk you pose to others. In another public health context it reminds me of car safety advice. We often hear messages like "don't drive while drunk, on the phone or texting", "always check your brakes, lights and tyre pressure before a long journey", "buy a car with safety kit like autonomous emergency braking and side airbags" but we rarely hear the one piece of safety advice which will halve your risk of death or serious injury in a car crash: "rejig your lifestyle so you halve your annual mileage".
So today I’ve missed the first Credit Card payment of my life. I’ve paid it as soon as I received the “missed payment” email. What repercussions is this likely to have?
You will have a "1" on the credit agency record for that particular monthly payment rather than a "0".
A black mark but only slightly and on it`s own I doubt this will have any significance when you apply for credit in the future.
Starmer plays politics well by refusing to back a Brexit extension so he can watch the Government hang itself.
We are awaiting for Starmer to come up with some constructive input rather than saying 'it's all bad'. Looks like LAB will be looking for another new leader when Starmer loses at next GE!
Oppositions are there to oppose and hold the government to account
At all times? So in war the Opposition should help our enemies because after all 'Oppositions are there to oppose'? Surely not.
There are exceptions to every axiom, and a once-in-a-century pandemic should definitely be one.
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
It's not concern, it's faux outrageux from people who would give Boris no credit if thins went right and jump on every perceived error as if its a catastrophe
And why should they do one or the other? They are phasing something out, it's entirely the right thing to do tread the middle path
They're not treading a middle path. Are they advising or not?
They don't want people to be as locked in as they were, nor go out like everything is ok. Cautious tiptoeing out is what they want, and looks like that's what they're getting.
I despair at the feebleness of people, they should be embarrassed not to have the nous to work out this for themselves.
I can report that the main road outside my station is a lot busier than it has been. Seeing lorries and vans from businesses that I haven't seen since this all began. My impression is that people will Interpret Johnson's message last night in the way that suits them most. My middle lad believes it means he can go and pick his girlfriend up from her university. My wife thinks nothing much has changed and she's going to Stay Frosty for the foreseeable. It was noticeably busier on my drive into work this morning. Haven't seen any Plod at all, so I can't say if they're enforcing Alertness or not.
The new guidelines are unenforceable in any practical sense - except glaring gangs of people having barbies in the park etc - so I envisage most forces are no longer bothering.
I suspect this is what the government want - let people get infected but by their own choice rather than by ordering them to do so. "You MUST risk your lives for my hedge fund friends" isn't much of a message. "We've given advice you should have followed it" gives them cover.
On schools, it's worth noting again that something like 20% of children are eligible still to go to school right now, but fewer than 1% actually do.
The government is going to need to create some demand again among parents for schooling. Just reopening the schools, even year by year, may not be enough.
My sister is working at one of the hubs and attendance is very poor but what they are offering is child care not education. There are no formal classes and a wide range of ages are looked after together.
From what my teacher grandson...... teaches in a primary school...... says, that's about right.
Starmer plays politics well by refusing to back a Brexit extension so he can watch the Government hang itself.
We are awaiting for Starmer to come up with some constructive input rather than saying 'it's all bad'. Looks like LAB will be looking for another new leader when Starmer loses at next GE!
Oppositions are there to oppose and hold the government to account
A lot of people think they should be invited into the government! At least we know where you stand, Mike.
Sean and his acolytes do not only post their bollox on here, but even by his standards this is absolute barking Little Englander claptrap. ...............
Englishmen are returning to work to do the jobs and pay the taxes that provide the money - for Scotsmen to stay at home. Which also means Englishmen will die so that Scotsmen may live. https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1259789580875726849
If Sturgeon wants to lock down Scotland for longer she should be free to do so. And if that isn't covered by Barnett consequentials then Sturgeon can raise taxes if need be.
Do you think Sunak should fund all the coronavirus measures from taxation?
He just thinks the uppity Scots should be taught a lesson , how dare they have an opinion other than that from the great leader in Westminster. Thinks we live off the largesse they give us for free and we do not grovel enough.
So who are the larger problem - uppity Scots or muppety Scots?
On schools, it's worth noting again that something like 20% of children are eligible still to go to school right now, but fewer than 1% actually do.
The government is going to need to create some demand again among parents for schooling. Just reopening the schools, even year by year, may not be enough.
My sister is working at one of the hubs and attendance is very poor but what they are offering is child care not education. There are no formal classes and a wide range of ages are looked after together.
From what my teacher grandson...... teaches in a primary school...... that's about right.
So today I’ve missed the first Credit Card payment of my life. I’ve paid it as soon as I received the “missed payment” email. What repercussions is this likely to have?
Ring them. Apologise. Point out how they have always had their cash on time. Ask them to waive the late payment fee. Then forget about it
I have a standing order to cover the minimum payment each month in order to guard against this sort of thing. Set one up and then simply knock off that £20 or £30 when you pay the bill as normal.
Starmer plays politics well by refusing to back a Brexit extension so he can watch the Government hang itself.
We are awaiting for Starmer to come up with some constructive input rather than saying 'it's all bad'. Looks like LAB will be looking for another new leader when Starmer loses at next GE!
Oppositions are there to oppose and hold the government to account
At all times? So in war the Opposition should help our enemies because after all 'Oppositions are there to oppose'? Surely not.
There are exceptions to every axiom, and a once-in-a-century pandemic should definitely be one.
It's not a war.
You know perfectly well that it's the closest possible equivalent - and in terms of casualties, economic damage, and social disruption much worse than any recent war.
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
It's not concern, it's faux outrageux from people who would give Boris no credit if thins went right and jump on every perceived error as if its a catastrophe
And why should they do one or the other? They are phasing something out, it's entirely the right thing to do tread the middle path
They're not treading a middle path. Are they advising or not?
They don't want people to be as locked in as they were, nor go out like everything is ok. Cautious tiptoeing out is what they want, and looks like that's what they're getting.
I despair at the feebleness of people, they should be embarrassed not to have the nous to work out this for themselves.
But you're substituting what you wish government would say for what they're actually saying. (I have quite a lot of sympathy with your wish, but it really isn't what's being said.)
They're still trying to give advice, and making a complete horlicks of it.
Re-reading Boris's speech in the cold light of day the words which are sticking with me are "actively encouraged". What does "actively encouraged" mean - is it as much as euphemism for me as "working at home" is for some others?
I'm no fan of anyone being forced against their will to go to work and risk their life and that of their family.
Those who aren't well but are told by their company if they don't work they will be sacked (with the unsubtle reminder there are plenty out there to take their place) represent the worst of capitalism and the worst of us.
The clients with whom I am working on office re-configuration are at most looking at one third of their capacity being available so working at home (no qualification needed and it's insulting to add one) and virtual meetings for the majority for the foreseeable.
It'll be interesting to see if there is evidence of increased vehicular activity today - anecdotally and having done my walk early today to get my prescription, I can report the Barking Road very quiet and the buses are almost empty.
So today I’ve missed the first Credit Card payment of my life. I’ve paid it as soon as I received the “missed payment” email. What repercussions is this likely to have?
If it's just one, not too much assuming you have an excellent (or perhaps good) rating. If your rating is already shot, then it probably won't make it much worse, either.
>Afternoon all
It's a bit early in the day to be calling it afternoon, judging by tasks I have completed so far.
Starmer plays politics well by refusing to back a Brexit extension so he can watch the Government hang itself.
We are awaiting for Starmer to come up with some constructive input rather than saying 'it's all bad'. Looks like LAB will be looking for another new leader when Starmer loses at next GE!
Oppositions are there to oppose and hold the government to account
At all times? So in war the Opposition should help our enemies because after all 'Oppositions are there to oppose'? Surely not.
There are exceptions to every axiom, and a once-in-a-century pandemic should definitely be one.
It's not a war.
You know perfectly well that it's the closest possible equivalent - and in terms of casualties, economic damage, and social disruption much worse than any recent war.
There are profound and important differences. Most importantly, the "enemy" isn't sentient and so cannot gain from having plans disclosed, queried or overturned by argument.
That sounds odd. Staying alert is an ALTERNATIVE to staying at home. You need to be alert when you are out. When you're in you can allow your level of alertness to fall back to what it normally is for most people - not particularly alert.
Sean and his acolytes do not only post their bollox on here, but even by his standards this is absolute barking Little Englander claptrap. ...............
Englishmen are returning to work to do the jobs and pay the taxes that provide the money - for Scotsmen to stay at home. Which also means Englishmen will die so that Scotsmen may live. https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1259789580875726849
If Sturgeon wants to lock down Scotland for longer she should be free to do so. And if that isn't covered by Barnett consequentials then Sturgeon can raise taxes if need be.
Pity she does not have any control over taxes as that is retained by Westminster. Try to engage your brain Philip. Your Little Englander threats are pretty childish, why not Bozo the clown just declare Scotland as independent.
That's an idea! If Scotland goes independent and cannot rely on English money to bail it out then Sturgeon will certainly have to put taxes up!
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
Yes, but if it shits the opposition/unions/media/keyboard warriers will say "you should have got off the pot" and if it gets off the pot the opposition/unions/media/keyboard warriers will say "you should have had a good ole shit".
So today I’ve missed the first Credit Card payment of my life. I’ve paid it as soon as I received the “missed payment” email. What repercussions is this likely to have?
Speak to the company, I work for a credit card company and we don't mark it as missed unless it's more than 14 days, but a lot of companies are giving extra leeway at the moment. Most definitely aren't charging late fees.
Imagine how confused these people would be if the government said
"You've had 8 weeks of information on this disease, and how to cope with it. Think for yourselves, use common sense"
It is an embarrassing national spectacle of fuckwittery at every turn.
"Am I allowed to sit on a bench with my sister if she has seen my Mum that morning"? "What if my cat brushed past me on the way out the door and next door's dog was watching"? "Can i drive to Tescos and then to the park, and what do i do with my shopping bags?"
FFS it's really not hard.
2 metres Wash your hands work from home if you can Follow the guidelines your employer will have put in place Use your common sense.
Seems the last one is beyond a depressingly large number of sheeple, and moreover they don't seem to think it is even acceptable as advice.
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
Yes, but if it shits the opposition/unions/media/keyboard warriers will say "you should have got off the pot" and if it gets off the pot the opposition/unions/media/keyboard warriers will say "you should have had a good ole shit".
Probably. Either would be better than the current horlicks.
So today I’ve missed the first Credit Card payment of my life. I’ve paid it as soon as I received the “missed payment” email. What repercussions is this likely to have?
I would imagine next to none, worst case it will show on your credit rating as one late payment but count for nothing. Given you have paid it quickly it is unlikely it will even ever get there as they work a few weeks behind at least.
So today I’ve missed the first Credit Card payment of my life. I’ve paid it as soon as I received the “missed payment” email. What repercussions is this likely to have?
Speak to the company, I work for a credit card company and we don't mark it as missed unless it's more than 14 days, but a lot of companies are giving extra leeway at the moment. Most definitely aren't charging late fees.
It’s American Express - I’ve sent them a message via their app asking for some leeway. Thank you all for your advice, I think I’ve panicked unnecessarily!
Starmer plays politics well by refusing to back a Brexit extension so he can watch the Government hang itself.
We are awaiting for Starmer to come up with some constructive input rather than saying 'it's all bad'. Looks like LAB will be looking for another new leader when Starmer loses at next GE!
Oppositions are there to oppose and hold the government to account
At all times? So in war the Opposition should help our enemies because after all 'Oppositions are there to oppose'? Surely not.
There are exceptions to every axiom, and a once-in-a-century pandemic should definitely be one.
During the First World War, we replaced the Prime Minister. During the Second World War we replaced the Prime Minister twice. There were also at least two votes of no confidence in the government. The idea we should suspend democracy to suit Boris is offensive and wrong, and one for which there is no wartime precedent.
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
It's not concern, it's faux outrageux from people who would give Boris no credit if thins went right and jump on every perceived error as if its a catastrophe
And why should they do one or the other? They are phasing something out, it's entirely the right thing to do tread the middle path
They're not treading a middle path. Are they advising or not?
They don't want people to be as locked in as they were, nor go out like everything is ok. Cautious tiptoeing out is what they want, and looks like that's what they're getting.
I despair at the feebleness of people, they should be embarrassed not to have the nous to work out this for themselves.
Exactly. We live in an age where supposedly educated people wear their obtuseness - real or assumed - as a badge of honour because it allows them to bash the government, which is apparently more important to them than life itself.
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
It's not concern, it's faux outrageux from people who would give Boris no credit if thins went right and jump on every perceived error as if its a catastrophe
And why should they do one or the other? They are phasing something out, it's entirely the right thing to do tread the middle path
They're not treading a middle path. Are they advising or not?
They don't want people to be as locked in as they were, nor go out like everything is ok. Cautious tiptoeing out is what they want, and looks like that's what they're getting.
I despair at the feebleness of people, they should be embarrassed not to have the nous to work out this for themselves.
But you're substituting what you wish government would say for what they're actually saying. (I have quite a lot of sympathy with your wish, but it really isn't what's being said.)
They're still trying to give advice, and making a complete horlicks of it.
I am not substituting it, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted the message to be slightly vague so people tiptoe out of lockdown. They probably credit the public with having more common sense than the media do.
What is the message everyone is getting? You're allowed to do more than last week but not much more. That's enough
Sean and his acolytes do not only post their bollox on here, but even by his standards this is absolute barking Little Englander claptrap. ...............
Englishmen are returning to work to do the jobs and pay the taxes that provide the money - for Scotsmen to stay at home. Which also means Englishmen will die so that Scotsmen may live. https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1259789580875726849
If Sturgeon wants to lock down Scotland for longer she should be free to do so. And if that isn't covered by Barnett consequentials then Sturgeon can raise taxes if need be.
Do you think Sunak should fund all the coronavirus measures from taxation?
He just thinks the uppity Scots should be taught a lesson , how dare they have an opinion other than that from the great leader in Westminster. Thinks we live off the largesse they give us for free and we do not grovel enough.
So who are the larger problem - uppity Scots or muppety Scots?
Someone has just posted on a F/b page I follow that '4 year olds can go to school but university students who have paid for the tuition they haven’t had and the accommodation they aren’t living in, can’t go to university."
Uni students are, of course, probably OK if they are reading Classics or similar, but not if they're reading STEM subjects.
In amongst all the confusion I've noticed the media seem to be confused what's actually happening in the real world. The Guardian posted the Tube was empty earlier this morning on their live feed except for a little uptick, but I had This Morning on ITV on in the background just now and they were claiming it was packed.
Starmer plays politics well by refusing to back a Brexit extension so he can watch the Government hang itself.
We are awaiting for Starmer to come up with some constructive input rather than saying 'it's all bad'. Looks like LAB will be looking for another new leader when Starmer loses at next GE!
Oppositions are there to oppose and hold the government to account
At all times? So in war the Opposition should help our enemies because after all 'Oppositions are there to oppose'? Surely not.
There are exceptions to every axiom, and a once-in-a-century pandemic should definitely be one.
That just obviously isn't what Mike was saying.
In a war, opposing plainly doesn't mean helping our enemies - it's entirely possible to oppose effectively by questioning the justification for having a war, and/or the effectiveness with which it is being fought without supporting the other side. Indeed, it is commonplace in wars for that to happen.
In a crisis it is, in many ways, MORE important to oppose, challenge and hold to account. There is more at stake and putting that kind of pressure on quite rightly makes the Government focus on areas where it is in fact weak and lacks robust answers (e.g. PPE in the care sector). Asking for them to go gently is, frankly, absurd.
In terms of being constructive, I think things like focusing on the care sector is constructive. I don't, however, expect an opposition which doesn't command a vast permanent civil service to come up with an incredibly detailed "shadow" plan in order to take it seriously. And indeed that has never been what has happened for oppositions of any complexion - even at elections, manifestos and policy documents are relatively thin and need some time to work up (oppositions don't produce vast bills and associated planning documents ready to be rolled out on day one).
There really is a lot of hysterical nonsense about this morning. It is absolutely impossible for the government to regulate or micro manage everything. There have been absurdities in the Stay at Home stage, such as preventing sunbathing in parks whilst maintaining social distancing. What on earth was ever wrong with that? In my neck of the woods the trustees of the woods had blocked off the carpark because they believed people should not drive there for their walk. Why on earth not? How do you catch CV in a car?
What Boris started yesterday was the unwinding of this nonsense. We need to take responsibility for our own safety. We need to ensure that our particular work place is safe with adequate social distancing, sterilisation, limits on numbers etc. Governments simply cannot work this out for us beyond some very general guidelines.
But we need to go to work. We need to pay for this somehow. We need to preserve what jobs we can. We just need to do so carefully.
Brilliant post. Absolutely spot on.
You don't think a bit of planning might be useful? Some guidance on how to tackle the change? Clarity on what's being asked for? Answers to some basic questions?
Even if the answer is: “decide for yourself, being sensible given the risks”.
That is not (yet) the government’s position, even if you think it should be.
Its not going to be the government's advice no.
The government's advice should be best practice relevant for the situation as whole for the country while people make their own decisions based upon that. I hope we're never in a position where we need the Prime Minister to do all our thinking for us.
The government is getting in a tangle on some very basic questions. It should have planned answers to these.
On some of them, the answer should be “decide for yourselves based on what you know”. But it isn’t.
They aborted and have changed tack at the last minute, and made the (pre scheduled) announcement while still trying to fill out the details.
I think that is probably correct but we need to see how coherent the 60 page regulation document is first.
If that answers most of the questions then it will look like it was a considered joined-up plan. If it riddled with ambiguity with one section contradicting another then it will confirm your view that it was cobbled together at the last minute.
Like DavidL I am growing increasingly concerned about the long-term economic impact of this and I have a genuine question for government supporters:-
Are the decisions to continue furlough and maintain much of the lockdown being taken in tandem with a clear plan as to how the public finances are going to be restored later or is that simply not a consideration right now? If it's the latter I find that very scary indeed.
Does it say they are following Public Health England and Public Health Wales Guidelines? Wow does that mean that guidelines on working practices for Covid 19 are available online for anyone to look at to enable them to re-open their business. Or should everyone just keep saying that they are confused and that advice is not available so just keep paying Furlough.
If it's just one, not too much assuming you have an excellent (or perhaps good) rating. If your rating is already shot, then it probably won't make it much worse, either.
>Afternoon all
It's a bit early in the day to be calling it afternoon, judging by tasks I have completed so far.
It can be that sometimes but if you can get it wrong, the PB temporal pedants are even worse than the PB grammar pedants.
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
It's not concern, it's faux outrageux from people who would give Boris no credit if thins went right and jump on every perceived error as if its a catastrophe
And why should they do one or the other? They are phasing something out, it's entirely the right thing to do tread the middle path
They're not treading a middle path. Are they advising or not?
They don't want people to be as locked in as they were, nor go out like everything is ok. Cautious tiptoeing out is what they want, and looks like that's what they're getting.
I despair at the feebleness of people, they should be embarrassed not to have the nous to work out this for themselves.
But you're substituting what you wish government would say for what they're actually saying. (I have quite a lot of sympathy with your wish, but it really isn't what's being said.)
They're still trying to give advice, and making a complete horlicks of it.
I am not substituting it, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted the message to be slightly vague so people tiptoe out of lockdown. They probably credit the public with having more common sense than the media do.
What is the message everyone is getting? You're allowed to do more than last week but not much more. That's enough
Studied vagueness would be fine with an appropriate message about making your own cautious assessment. Having a senior government minister unclear whether you can appropriately meet one parent or both simultaneously is just inept.
Sean and his acolytes do not only post their bollox on here, but even by his standards this is absolute barking Little Englander claptrap. ...............
Englishmen are returning to work to do the jobs and pay the taxes that provide the money - for Scotsmen to stay at home. Which also means Englishmen will die so that Scotsmen may live. https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1259789580875726849
If Sturgeon wants to lock down Scotland for longer she should be free to do so. And if that isn't covered by Barnett consequentials then Sturgeon can raise taxes if need be.
Pity she does not have any control over taxes as that is retained by Westminster. Try to engage your brain Philip. Your Little Englander threats are pretty childish, why not Bozo the clown just declare Scotland as independent.
Some taxes are retained in Westminster, many are in Scotland and Sturgeon has the power to change taxes.
No threats. Scotland should do what it wants to do and pay for it accordingly how it wants to do so. I do believe Scotland should be independent.
Almost all taxes are retained and they cannot affect them and are only allowed to borrow a very small amount , you know less than nothing of devolution , Barnett , tax powers, etc I see.
So today I’ve missed the first Credit Card payment of my life. I’ve paid it as soon as I received the “missed payment” email. What repercussions is this likely to have?
Speak to the company, I work for a credit card company and we don't mark it as missed unless it's more than 14 days, but a lot of companies are giving extra leeway at the moment. Most definitely aren't charging late fees.
It’s American Express - I’ve sent them a message via their app asking for some leeway. Thank you all for your advice, I think I’ve panicked unnecessarily!
I've missed a couple by a few days in the last few years. Still have a very high credit rating...
So today I’ve missed the first Credit Card payment of my life. I’ve paid it as soon as I received the “missed payment” email. What repercussions is this likely to have?
You will have a "1" on the credit agency record for that particular monthly payment rather than a "0".
A black mark but only slightly and on it`s own I doubt this will have any significance when you apply for credit in the future.
If he paid it quickly enough it may not even register, and as you say 1 late payment has no significance.
In amongst all the confusion I've noticed the media seem to be confused what's actually having. The Guardian posted the Tube was empty earlier this morning on their live feed and This Morning on ITV was on in the background just now and they were claiming it was packed.
The Guardian posted a picture of an empty train at Stratford, which is the end of the Jubilee line and often has empty trains at the platform because all the passengers are on the one at the other platform that is leaving first
On trains that are actually moving it seems different
Sean and his acolytes do not only post their bollox on here, but even by his standards this is absolute barking Little Englander claptrap. ...............
Englishmen are returning to work to do the jobs and pay the taxes that provide the money - for Scotsmen to stay at home. Which also means Englishmen will die so that Scotsmen may live. https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1259789580875726849
If Sturgeon wants to lock down Scotland for longer she should be free to do so. And if that isn't covered by Barnett consequentials then Sturgeon can raise taxes if need be.
Pity she does not have any control over taxes as that is retained by Westminster. Try to engage your brain Philip. Your Little Englander threats are pretty childish, why not Bozo the clown just declare Scotland as independent.
Some taxes are retained in Westminster, many are in Scotland and Sturgeon has the power to change taxes.
No threats. Scotland should do what it wants to do and pay for it accordingly how it wants to do so. I do believe Scotland should be independent.
Almost all taxes are retained and they cannot affect them and are only allowed to borrow a very small amount , you know less than nothing of devolution , Barnett , tax powers, etc I see.
More can be affected than you make out.
And I think the limits on borrowing should be removed. In fact I think you should have complete power over taxes and spending. Do you disagree?
Lots of focus on the public not thinking what is expected now is clear, but in fact only 10% answered "don't know" when asked whether the changes went too far. Which side by side make for curious reading.
Someone has just posted on a F/b page I follow that '4 year olds can go to school but university students who have paid for the tuition they haven’t had and the accommodation they aren’t living in, can’t go to university."
Uni students are, of course, probably OK if they are reading Classics or similar, but not if they're reading STEM subjects.
Well lets decompose this nonsense.
4 years old can't go to school at the moment (unless child of a key worker). Furthermore, 4 year olds are at basically zero risk from other 4 year olds and in a primary school the number of adults is very low and there is evidence that transmission from young kids to adults doesn't occur (see Nordic countries, only one "outbreak" in a primary school, and it was teacher to teacher).
Furthermore, how many kids does a normal primary school have 100? 200? Basically there aren't many, and you should be able to space them out.
In comparison, a university campus, is basically a mini city. They are extremely high population density locations, packed with adults from 18 to 80. There is also all the associated services, staffed by adults, lots of admin, catering, health, cleaning, etc etc etc. The students live in shared accommodation among many, so if one gets it, they will quickly spread it around. In many locations they are also forced to use public transport to get around, as most unis have a no car or restricted car policy.
Lectures for many subjects consist of 100s of people all crammed together for hours on end. They are far higher density learning environments than a typical school. And as you walk around, you will come into close contact with 1000s of other people.
Young adults appear to be the group that are most likely to get it without knowing and transmit it onwards e.g. German Carnival episode. So although they aren't at particularly high risk, they interact with a huge number of adults who are.
That sounds odd. Staying alert is an ALTERNATIVE to staying at home. You need to be alert when you are out. When you're in you can allow your level of alertness to fall back to what it normally is for most people - not particularly alert.
When you're in you can allow your level of alertness to fall back - but by being alert you can choose to spend more time in.
If the UK government had run the same schemes for PPE and testing from the beginning, we would have been on a far better position.
That along with the food box system have been two of the better ideas and successes by the government.
Problem was Johnson running the ventilator exercise as a design competition rather than a procurement. In the end it didn't matter because, thank Goodness, the infections ran slightly behind ventilator availability, unlike Italy. Pure luck, not judgment.
Which is verifable bollocks...there was several strands to the approach, procurement from existing UK suppliers, procurement from abroad, expanded capacity by copying existing design and the new designs.
The one thing this crisis has been good for is identifying the few posters who care to check what they post is accurate rather than posting the first bit of rubbish that enters their head.
I assume you are including me in your unsubstantiated "posting the first bit of rubbish that enters my head" category.
Anyway, as of 8th May well after the initial surge subsided, 449 "Ventilator Challenge" ventilators out of the 18 000 target had been delivered (possibly with the addition of 250 other bought in ventilators, depending on how you count it).
So new ventilators did come in, and your not counting the CPAP machines that came in before then which meant that the ventilators were no longer required in such numbers which is why they weren't proceeded with.
You are spinning this. The number delivered is what it is. Going back to my original points, ventilators were repurposed, eg ambulance ventilators moved to bedside, and we were lucky that the epidemic ran slightly behind our availability, unlike Italy, which I think has procured more ventilators. I am not particularly making a judgment on whether the government got as many as it should have done. My point is that the "ventilator challenge" was a nonsense, but in the end it didn't matter, through luck.
It wasn't a nonsense, it produced the Mercedes CPAP which has been a real revolution for non-invasive medical intervention for patients that needed oxygen but weren't good candidates for mechanical ventilation.
Your agenda is so transparent.
What's that got to do with "ventilator challenge" ? CPAP was used in Wuhan back in January.
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
It's not concern, it's faux outrageux from people who would give Boris no credit if thins went right and jump on every perceived error as if its a catastrophe
And why should they do one or the other? They are phasing something out, it's entirely the right thing to do tread the middle path
They're not treading a middle path. Are they advising or not?
They don't want people to be as locked in as they were, nor go out like everything is ok. Cautious tiptoeing out is what they want, and looks like that's what they're getting.
I despair at the feebleness of people, they should be embarrassed not to have the nous to work out this for themselves.
But you're substituting what you wish government would say for what they're actually saying. (I have quite a lot of sympathy with your wish, but it really isn't what's being said.)
They're still trying to give advice, and making a complete horlicks of it.
I am not substituting it, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted the message to be slightly vague so people tiptoe out of lockdown. They probably credit the public with having more common sense than the media do.
What is the message everyone is getting? You're allowed to do more than last week but not much more. That's enough
Studied vagueness would be fine with an appropriate message about making your own cautious assessment. Having a senior government minister unclear whether you can appropriately meet one parent or both simultaneously is just inept.
If I want to meet one of my parents or both, I would just do it. I have done it several times since lockdown, actually; I cycled to their house and we stood/sat at opposite ends of the garden and had a chinwag.
Grown ups should make their own choices and live with the consequences, not wait for/blame the government.
has any British government ever sent as clear and overt a signal that it does not trust or respect its citizens as lockdown?
Now it wants us to be the grown ups it has plainly and very powerfully indicated we are not?
While I rarely agree with you I do think, having read it twice, Boris's speech was that of a father talking to a 7-year-old child.
"You've been good so far. If you continue to be good, you can play with some of your toys outside. If not, you'll have to stay indoors with no toys".
That was the sense and tone I got from the text.
I'm to be convinced this is less some great act of selfless responsibility from a public desperate to save the economy and more desperation from those unable or unwilling or for whom Sunak's furlough largesse is insufficient.
I expect some will have been texted by their companies, told they have to report to work and informed if they don't they will be considered to have quit and there are plenty of others able and willing to take their place. I'm afraid for some that is the reality of work and capitalism.
Lots of focus on the public not thinking what is expected now is clear, but in fact only 10% answered "don't know" when asked whether the changes went too far. Which side by side make for curious reading.
Not really - when asked if lockdown measures should be relaxed in three weeks' time, only 34% said "don't know".
Basically, people feel compelled to give an answer. This sort of polling is useless.
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
It's not concern, it's faux outrageux from people who would give Boris no credit if thins went right and jump on every perceived error as if its a catastrophe
And why should they do one or the other? They are phasing something out, it's entirely the right thing to do tread the middle path
They're not treading a middle path. Are they advising or not?
They don't want people to be as locked in as they were, nor go out like everything is ok. Cautious tiptoeing out is what they want, and looks like that's what they're getting.
I despair at the feebleness of people, they should be embarrassed not to have the nous to work out this for themselves.
But you're substituting what you wish government would say for what they're actually saying. (I have quite a lot of sympathy with your wish, but it really isn't what's being said.)
They're still trying to give advice, and making a complete horlicks of it.
I am not substituting it, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted the message to be slightly vague so people tiptoe out of lockdown. They probably credit the public with having more common sense than the media do.
What is the message everyone is getting? You're allowed to do more than last week but not much more. That's enough
Studied vagueness would be fine with an appropriate message about making your own cautious assessment. Having a senior government minister unclear whether you can appropriately meet one parent or both simultaneously is just inept.
If I want to meet one of my parents or both, I would just do it. I have done it several times since lockdown, actually; I cycled to their house and we stood/sat at opposite ends of the garden and had a chinwag.
Grown ups should make their own choices and live with the consequences, not wait for/blame the government.
Remember that a lot of people start from wanting to blame the government, and work backwards from that point.
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
It's not concern, it's faux outrageux from people who would give Boris no credit if thins went right and jump on every perceived error as if its a catastrophe
And why should they do one or the other? They are phasing something out, it's entirely the right thing to do tread the middle path
They're not treading a middle path. Are they advising or not?
They don't want people to be as locked in as they were, nor go out like everything is ok. Cautious tiptoeing out is what they want, and looks like that's what they're getting.
I despair at the feebleness of people, they should be embarrassed not to have the nous to work out this for themselves.
But you're substituting what you wish government would say for what they're actually saying. (I have quite a lot of sympathy with your wish, but it really isn't what's being said.)
They're still trying to give advice, and making a complete horlicks of it.
I am not substituting it, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted the message to be slightly vague so people tiptoe out of lockdown. They probably credit the public with having more common sense than the media do.
What is the message everyone is getting? You're allowed to do more than last week but not much more. That's enough
Studied vagueness would be fine with an appropriate message about making your own cautious assessment. Having a senior government minister unclear whether you can appropriately meet one parent or both simultaneously is just inept.
If I want to meet one of my parents or both, I would just do it. I have done it several times since lockdown, actually; I cycled to their house and we stood/sat at opposite ends of the garden and had a chinwag.
Grown ups should make their own choices and live with the consequences, not wait for/blame the government.
Then the government should say "that's exactly the type of decision we expect you to be making for yourselves". But that's not what it's doing.
As it happens, I've already done exactly that, but that's because I take my own view how I'm going to apply all this stuff anyway and I have no great confidence that these clowns know what they are doing, so why would I take what they advise as gospel?
In amongst all the confusion I've noticed the media seem to be confused what's actually having. The Guardian posted the Tube was empty earlier this morning on their live feed and This Morning on ITV was on in the background just now and they were claiming it was packed.
The Guardian posted a picture of an empty train at Stratford, which is the end of the Jubilee line and often has empty trains at the platform because all the passengers are on the one at the other platform that is leaving first
On trains that are actually moving it seems different
So today I’ve missed the first Credit Card payment of my life. I’ve paid it as soon as I received the “missed payment” email. What repercussions is this likely to have?
Ring them. Apologise. Point out how they have always had their cash on time. Ask them to waive the late payment fee. Then forget about it
Agree. It has happened to me a few times. They always waive it if they see it is a genuine oversight from your track record.
That sounds odd. Staying alert is an ALTERNATIVE to staying at home. You need to be alert when you are out. When you're in you can allow your level of alertness to fall back to what it normally is for most people - not particularly alert.
Yes in plain natural English I think this is right. If the key slogan had been "take care" or "be cautious", then "take care by staying at home" or "be cautious by staying at home" would have fitted together rather better. Though they arguably lack the required sense of urgency when applied to out-of-home activities!
Having said that, as per my previous post, I think "stay alert" could eventually come to mean - as far as the average punter is concerned - whatever the government wants us to think that it means. Just like "stay at home" didn't end up meaning, literally, "stay at home". My issue with "stay alert" is similar to the one you've flagged up though - that if it doesn't seem congruent with "stay at home", despite being cunningly worded to recall that slogan, there's a risk of "stay at home when possible" being diluted as a message when it is still a key part of the current phase. We will have to see how this all pans out, but I think a lot will rest on the government's message discipline and whether the creative part of its comms team can craft the kind of public information films and internet adverts that capture the complexity and nuance of the current phase's advice and manage to communicate a clear, consistent core message.
Lots of focus on the public not thinking what is expected now is clear, but in fact only 10% answered "don't know" when asked whether the changes went too far. Which side by side make for curious reading.
Not really - when asked if lockdown measures should be relaxed in three weeks' time, only 34% said "don't know".
Basically, people feel compelled to give an answer. This sort of polling is useless.
70% think that the new guidance is unclear (only 7% said neither guidance was clear) but only 10% don't know if it goes too far relaxing things? Looks curious to me.
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
It's not concern, it's faux outrageux from people who would give Boris no credit if thins went right and jump on every perceived error as if its a catastrophe
And why should they do one or the other? They are phasing something out, it's entirely the right thing to do tread the middle path
They're not treading a middle path. Are they advising or not?
They don't want people to be as locked in as they were, nor go out like everything is ok. Cautious tiptoeing out is what they want, and looks like that's what they're getting.
I despair at the feebleness of people, they should be embarrassed not to have the nous to work out this for themselves.
But you're substituting what you wish government would say for what they're actually saying. (I have quite a lot of sympathy with your wish, but it really isn't what's being said.)
They're still trying to give advice, and making a complete horlicks of it.
I am not substituting it, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted the message to be slightly vague so people tiptoe out of lockdown. They probably credit the public with having more common sense than the media do.
What is the message everyone is getting? You're allowed to do more than last week but not much more. That's enough
Studied vagueness would be fine with an appropriate message about making your own cautious assessment. Having a senior government minister unclear whether you can appropriately meet one parent or both simultaneously is just inept.
If I want to meet one of my parents or both, I would just do it. I have done it several times since lockdown, actually; I cycled to their house and we stood/sat at opposite ends of the garden and had a chinwag.
Grown ups should make their own choices and live with the consequences, not wait for/blame the government.
Then the government should say "that's exactly the type of decision we expect you to be making for yourselves". But that's not what it's doing.
As it happens, I've already done exactly that, but that's because I take my own view how I'm going to apply all this stuff anyway and I have no great confidence that these clowns know what they are doing, so why would I take what they advise as gospel?
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
It's not concern, it's faux outrageux from people who would give Boris no credit if thins went right and jump on every perceived error as if its a catastrophe
And why should they do one or the other? They are phasing something out, it's entirely the right thing to do tread the middle path
They're not treading a middle path. Are they advising or not?
They don't want people to be as locked in as they were, nor go out like everything is ok. Cautious tiptoeing out is what they want, and looks like that's what they're getting.
I despair at the feebleness of people, they should be embarrassed not to have the nous to work out this for themselves.
But you're substituting what you wish government would say for what they're actually saying. (I have quite a lot of sympathy with your wish, but it really isn't what's being said.)
They're still trying to give advice, and making a complete horlicks of it.
I am not substituting it, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted the message to be slightly vague so people tiptoe out of lockdown. They probably credit the public with having more common sense than the media do.
What is the message everyone is getting? You're allowed to do more than last week but not much more. That's enough
Studied vagueness would be fine with an appropriate message about making your own cautious assessment. Having a senior government minister unclear whether you can appropriately meet one parent or both simultaneously is just inept.
If I want to meet one of my parents or both, I would just do it. I have done it several times since lockdown, actually; I cycled to their house and we stood/sat at opposite ends of the garden and had a chinwag.
Grown ups should make their own choices and live with the consequences, not wait for/blame the government.
Then the government should say "that's exactly the type of decision we expect you to be making for yourselves". But that's not what it's doing.
As it happens, I've already done exactly that, but that's because I take my own view how I'm going to apply all this stuff anyway and I have no great confidence that these clowns know what they are doing, so why would I take what they advise as gospel?
"that's exactly the type of decision we expect you to be making for yourselves"
Good Lord, can you imagine the reaction if they said that?! Have you seen The Life of Brian?
The reaction would be pretty positive, I'd say, if they coupled it with "obviously we'll be keeping a close eye on whether Covid-19 is taking off again, so proceed with caution for now - and remember, if you get this wrong, you'll be putting your loved ones at risk".
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
Yes, but if it shits the opposition/unions/media/keyboard warriers will say "you should have got off the pot" and if it gets off the pot the opposition/unions/media/keyboard warriers will say "you should have had a good ole shit".
Probably. Either would be better than the current horlicks.
My sense - re this helpful analogy - is that PM Johnson is in a genuine quandary. He does not have the confidence to shit. Neither does he feel able to get up and leave the cubicle. So there he squats, waiting for something to happen, hoping and praying that things do not get too messy.
IMO the root cause of this is (i) lack of knowledge about the virus - and (ii) suspicion verging on certainty that track & trace at scale is beyond us.
Are the decisions to continue furlough and maintain much of the lockdown being taken in tandem with a clear plan as to how the public finances are going to be restored later or is that simply not a consideration right now? If it's the latter I find that very scary indeed.
At this stage it won't be possible to have a clear plan as to how to restore the public finances because so many variables will be unknown. How long until a vaccine? Can we reopen the economy with contact tracing before a vaccine and avoid a second wave? Will people have the confidence to spend money? Will the economy be 5% smaller by the end of 2021, or 10%, or 15%, or 1%?
I would hope that the decisions on furlough are being made with a focus on two things. (1) Supporting the main policy of defeating the virus. (2) Reducing the long-term damage to the economy.
The public finances will be much easier to repair if the use of the furlough scheme manages to keep the economic damage closer to 1% by the end of 2021 than 15%.
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
Yes, but if it shits the opposition/unions/media/keyboard warriers will say "you should have got off the pot" and if it gets off the pot the opposition/unions/media/keyboard warriers will say "you should have had a good ole shit".
Probably. Either would be better than the current horlicks.
My sense - re this helpful analogy - is that PM Johnson is in a genuine quandry. He does not have the confidence to shit. Neither does he feel able to get up and leave the cubicle. So there he squats, waiting for something to happen, hoping and praying that things do not get too messy.
And the root cause of this is (i) lack of knowledge about the virus and (ii) suspicion verging on certainty that track & trace at scale is beyond us.
Just as interesting point on track and trace. South Korea, the gold standard, the big daddy, the state sponsored surveillance system that no Western government could ever get their population to buy into, in this outbreak in the nightclub, only tracked down 700 people out of the 6000-7000 at these venues after several days.
2 metres Wash your hands work from home if you can Follow the guidelines your employer will have put in place Use your common sense.
Seems the last one is beyond a depressingly large number of sheeple, and moreover they don't seem to think it is even acceptable as advice.
It's *not* acceptable for the Government to be unable to answer simple questions and to outsource it to people to "use their common sense" - it's one step short of saying "oh, whatever". Different people in identical circumstances (specifically: different employers) will come to different conclusions, creating an unfair mess.
Oh, and those guidelines? Employers are waiting for details about those too.
They're running out of things to talk about and itv are angry at not having ministers on
They have the same boss as Piers Morgan who co-ordinates a daily tone across daytime programming. So if its a political issue and GMB is broadly positive about it then it it will pass on down to This Morning with the same editorial positive take. Don't ask me how i know this.
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
Yes, but if it shits the opposition/unions/media/keyboard warriers will say "you should have got off the pot" and if it gets off the pot the opposition/unions/media/keyboard warriers will say "you should have had a good ole shit".
Probably. Either would be better than the current horlicks.
My sense - re this helpful analogy - is that PM Johnson is in a genuine quandry. He does not have the confidence to shit. Neither does he feel able to get up and leave the cubicle. So there he squats, waiting for something to happen, hoping and praying that things do not get too messy.
And the root cause of this is (i) lack of knowledge about the virus and (ii) suspicion verging on certainty that track & trace at scale is beyond us.
Just as interesting point on track and trace. South Korea, the gold standard, the big daddy, the state sponsored surveillance system that no Western government could ever get their population to buy into, in this outbreak in the nightclub, only tracked down 700 people out of the 6000-7000 at these venues after several days.
I always suspected that the alleged wondrousness of their response to the crisis was a bit overblown.
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
It's not concern, it's faux outrageux from people who would give Boris no credit if thins went right and jump on every perceived error as if its a catastrophe
And why should they do one or the other? They are phasing something out, it's entirely the right thing to do tread the middle path
They're not treading a middle path. Are they advising or not?
They don't want people to be as locked in as they were, nor go out like everything is ok. Cautious tiptoeing out is what they want, and looks like that's what they're getting.
I despair at the feebleness of people, they should be embarrassed not to have the nous to work out this for themselves.
But you're substituting what you wish government would say for what they're actually saying. (I have quite a lot of sympathy with your wish, but it really isn't what's being said.)
They're still trying to give advice, and making a complete horlicks of it.
I am not substituting it, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted the message to be slightly vague so people tiptoe out of lockdown. They probably credit the public with having more common sense than the media do.
What is the message everyone is getting? You're allowed to do more than last week but not much more. That's enough
Studied vagueness would be fine with an appropriate message about making your own cautious assessment. Having a senior government minister unclear whether you can appropriately meet one parent or both simultaneously is just inept.
If I want to meet one of my parents or both, I would just do it. I have done it several times since lockdown, actually; I cycled to their house and we stood/sat at opposite ends of the garden and had a chinwag.
Grown ups should make their own choices and live with the consequences, not wait for/blame the government.
Then the government should say "that's exactly the type of decision we expect you to be making for yourselves". But that's not what it's doing.
As it happens, I've already done exactly that, but that's because I take my own view how I'm going to apply all this stuff anyway and I have no great confidence that these clowns know what they are doing, so why would I take what they advise as gospel?
"that's exactly the type of decision we expect you to be making for yourselves"
Good Lord, can you imagine the reaction if they said that?! Have you seen The Life of Brian?
The reaction would be pretty positive, I'd say, if they coupled it with "obviously we'll be keeping a close eye on whether Covid-19 is taking off again, so proceed with caution for now - and remember, if you get this wrong, you'll be putting your loved ones at risk".
Have you ever been messed about by someone you fancy, in the manner of the song "Keep Me Hanging On"? They constantly send you mixed messages, so you don't come on too strong, but don't stop wanting them either.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is some leftfield Cummings idea to get the public doing just what they are - cautiously tiptoeing out of lockdown, without going too far.
I remember Portillo saying on the sadly departed This Week; the best way to get the public to do what you want them to do is to make them think it was their idea
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
Yes, but if it shits the opposition/unions/media/keyboard warriers will say "you should have got off the pot" and if it gets off the pot the opposition/unions/media/keyboard warriers will say "you should have had a good ole shit".
Probably. Either would be better than the current horlicks.
My sense - re this helpful analogy - is that PM Johnson is in a genuine quandry. He does not have the confidence to shit. Neither does he feel able to get up and leave the cubicle. So there he squats, waiting for something to happen, hoping and praying that things do not get too messy.
And the root cause of this is (i) lack of knowledge about the virus and (ii) suspicion verging on certainty that track & trace at scale is beyond us.
Just as interesting point on track and trace. South Korea, the gold standard, the big daddy, the state sponsored surveillance system that no Western government could ever get their population to buy into, in this outbreak in the nightclub, only tracked down 700 people out of the 6000-7000 at these venues after several days.
Wasn't there a problem that a large proportion were from the LBGT community and didn't wish to be tracked?
Also some very odd lagging where scrolling is impossible, once comments are opened. First maybe 5 seconds of the comments loading, then maybe seconds 10-15 too?
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
It's not concern, it's faux outrageux from people who would give Boris no credit if thins went right and jump on every perceived error as if its a catastrophe
And why should they do one or the other? They are phasing something out, it's entirely the right thing to do tread the middle path
They're not treading a middle path. Are they advising or not?
They don't want people to be as locked in as they were, nor go out like everything is ok. Cautious tiptoeing out is what they want, and looks like that's what they're getting.
I despair at the feebleness of people, they should be embarrassed not to have the nous to work out this for themselves.
But you're substituting what you wish government would say for what they're actually saying. (I have quite a lot of sympathy with your wish, but it really isn't what's being said.)
They're still trying to give advice, and making a complete horlicks of it.
I am not substituting it, I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted the message to be slightly vague so people tiptoe out of lockdown. They probably credit the public with having more common sense than the media do.
What is the message everyone is getting? You're allowed to do more than last week but not much more. That's enough
Studied vagueness would be fine with an appropriate message about making your own cautious assessment. Having a senior government minister unclear whether you can appropriately meet one parent or both simultaneously is just inept.
If I want to meet one of my parents or both, I would just do it. I have done it several times since lockdown, actually; I cycled to their house and we stood/sat at opposite ends of the garden and had a chinwag.
Grown ups should make their own choices and live with the consequences, not wait for/blame the government.
Then the government should say "that's exactly the type of decision we expect you to be making for yourselves". But that's not what it's doing.
As it happens, I've already done exactly that, but that's because I take my own view how I'm going to apply all this stuff anyway and I have no great confidence that these clowns know what they are doing, so why would I take what they advise as gospel?
"that's exactly the type of decision we expect you to be making for yourselves"
Good Lord, can you imagine the reaction if they said that?! Have you seen The Life of Brian?
The reaction would be pretty positive, I'd say, if they coupled it with "obviously we'll be keeping a close eye on whether Covid-19 is taking off again, so proceed with caution for now - and remember, if you get this wrong, you'll be putting your loved ones at risk".
Have you ever been messed about by someone you fancy, in the manner of the song "Keep Me Hanging On"? They constantly send you mixed messages, so you don't come on too strong, but don't stop wanting them either.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is some leftfield Cummings idea to get the public doing just what they are - cautiously tiptoeing out of lockdown, without going too far.
I remember Portillo saying on the sadly departed This Week; the best way to get the public to do what you want them to do is to make them think it was their idea
While simultaneously making Dominic Raab look like a prize plonker?
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
Yes, but if it shits the opposition/unions/media/keyboard warriers will say "you should have got off the pot" and if it gets off the pot the opposition/unions/media/keyboard warriers will say "you should have had a good ole shit".
Probably. Either would be better than the current horlicks.
My sense - re this helpful analogy - is that PM Johnson is in a genuine quandry. He does not have the confidence to shit. Neither does he feel able to get up and leave the cubicle. So there he squats, waiting for something to happen, hoping and praying that things do not get too messy.
And the root cause of this is (i) lack of knowledge about the virus and (ii) suspicion verging on certainty that track & trace at scale is beyond us.
Just as interesting point on track and trace. South Korea, the gold standard, the big daddy, the state sponsored surveillance system that no Western government could ever get their population to buy into, in this outbreak in the nightclub, only tracked down 700 people out of the 6000-7000 at these venues after several days.
I always suspected that the wondrousness of their response to the crisis was a bit overblown.
The big thing that they do have is this automatic prioritised testing system. So high risk cases get tested and they get results very quickly.
They're running out of things to talk about and itv are angry at not having ministers on
They have the same boss as Piers Morgan who co-ordinates a daily tone across daytime programming. So if its a political issue and GMB is broadly positive about it then it it will pass on down to This Morning with the same editorial positive take. Don't ask me how i know this.
Frankly, I think this government are more concerned with communicating directly with the public rather than through the intermediation of the press. Especially when most of the papers must be in serious trouble for both circs and ad revenues right now.
Someone has just posted on a F/b page I follow that '4 year olds can go to school but university students who have paid for the tuition they haven’t had and the accommodation they aren’t living in, can’t go to university."
Uni students are, of course, probably OK if they are reading Classics or similar, but not if they're reading STEM subjects.
Well lets decompose this nonsense.
4 years old can't go to school at the moment (unless child of a key worker). Furthermore, 4 year olds are at basically zero risk from other 4 year olds and in a primary school the number of adults is very low and there is evidence that transmission from young kids to adults doesn't occur (see Nordic countries, only one "outbreak" in a primary school, and it was teacher to teacher).
Furthermore, how many kids does a normal primary school have 100? 200? Basically there aren't many, and you should be able to space them out.
In comparison, a university campus, is basically a mini city. They are extremely high population density locations, packed with adults from 18 to 80. There is also all the associated services, staffed by adults, lots of admin, catering, health, cleaning, etc etc etc. The students live in shared accommodation among many, so if one gets it, they will quickly spread it around. In many locations they are also forced to use public transport to get around, as most unis have a no car or restricted car policy.
Lectures for many subjects consist of 100s of people all crammed together for hours on end. They are far higher density learning environments than a typical school. And as you walk around, you will come into close contact with 1000s of other people.
Young adults appear to be the group that are most likely to get it without knowing and transmit it onwards e.g. German Carnival episode. So although they aren't at particularly high risk, they interact with a huge number of adults who are.
On top of this, students are old enough to take onboard online teaching. Not all but most have access to their own computer and are onlien, have a microphone and many have a webcam. Online teaching to junior school children doesn't work. Basicially parents have to be teaching assistants, working to the material given to them by the teachers.
Actually what has been revealing amongst this crisis is how many people who, I would guess, consider themselves proud atheists, the type that mock organised religion and all that follow it, have really just replaced traditional religion and its leaders with politics. They cant think for themselves and wait on the PM/Govt every pronouncement in order to live their life in just the way people used to on Vicars/Churches in the old days, yet they genuinely believe they are above all that.
The people whose tweets Scott has chosen to post today would no doubt say "Tell us how to fuck off!" if Boris told them to
You're mischaracterising a lot of the concern. The government should shit or get off the pot. Currently it is doing neither.
Yes, but if it shits the opposition/unions/media/keyboard warriers will say "you should have got off the pot" and if it gets off the pot the opposition/unions/media/keyboard warriers will say "you should have had a good ole shit".
Probably. Either would be better than the current horlicks.
My sense - re this helpful analogy - is that PM Johnson is in a genuine quandry. He does not have the confidence to shit. Neither does he feel able to get up and leave the cubicle. So there he squats, waiting for something to happen, hoping and praying that things do not get too messy.
And the root cause of this is (i) lack of knowledge about the virus and (ii) suspicion verging on certainty that track & trace at scale is beyond us.
Just as interesting point on track and trace. South Korea, the gold standard, the big daddy, the state sponsored surveillance system that no Western government could ever get their population to buy into, in this outbreak in the nightclub, only tracked down 700 people out of the 6000-7000 at these venues after several days.
Wasn't there a problem that a large proportion were from the LBGT community and didn't wish to be tracked?
Lots of focus on the public not thinking what is expected now is clear, but in fact only 10% answered "don't know" when asked whether the changes went too far. Which side by side make for curious reading.
Not really - when asked if lockdown measures should be relaxed in three weeks' time, only 34% said "don't know".
Basically, people feel compelled to give an answer. This sort of polling is useless.
70% think that the new guidance is unclear (only 7% said neither guidance was clear) but only 10% don't know if it goes too far relaxing things? Looks curious to me.
The 2011 Census questionnaire had two places where you could say you worked from home. One was in the workplace address questionnaire (used for constructing flow data) and the other was in the method of travel to work question. There are two tables for method of travel to work:
Comments
I think you're big enough to look after yourselves. Am I wrong?
And why should they do one or the other? They are phasing something out, it's entirely the right thing to do tread the middle path. They dont want people to be as locked in as they were nor go out like everything is ok, so cautious tiptoeing out is what they want, and looks like what theyre getting
There are exceptions to every axiom, and a once-in-a-century pandemic should definitely be one.
No threats. Scotland should do what it wants to do and pay for it accordingly how it wants to do so. I do believe Scotland should be independent.
The hours of media coverage over what is/isn't allowed is an interesting point, because eventually words can mean what you want them to mean - so long as you've got a big comms team behind you and can place lots of public information films and ads and drive the media narrative somewhat, and especially if you pick a message and just keep drilling it home. Does HMG have the discipline and will the media play ball this time?
Once people are spending more time outside home, the messaging really needs to adapt to that and focus on just what those people should be doing when outside. Hopefully from HMG's point of view, "STAY ALERT" doesn't just emphasise that it's too early for complacency, but also provides a suitably omni-purpose skeleton onto which whatever meaning they wish to flesh it out with can be grafted via message repetition. Whether that's sticking to the 2m rule, no mingling with folk from other households, careful what you touch, follow all safety precautions at work, perhaps eventually in certain circumstances "don't forget your mask/gloves"... "stay at home where possible" will be part of that mix too, just now only one part of it.
In that respect "stay alert" may prove a decent slogan, it sounds pretty heavy stuff - something we need to take seriously - and to the extent it's vacuous or lacks substance and form, that also yields the plus point that it's flexible and free to be shaped and defined as the government require. My worry is that staying at home where possible, even eschewing your right to outdoor exercise, is the biggest single thing you can do to control your risk and the risk you pose to others. In another public health context it reminds me of car safety advice. We often hear messages like "don't drive while drunk, on the phone or texting", "always check your brakes, lights and tyre pressure before a long journey", "buy a car with safety kit like autonomous emergency braking and side airbags" but we rarely hear the one piece of safety advice which will halve your risk of death or serious injury in a car crash: "rejig your lifestyle so you halve your annual mileage".
(Apols for partial repost)
A black mark but only slightly and on it`s own I doubt this will have any significance when you apply for credit in the future.
I despair at the feebleness of people, they should be embarrassed not to have the nous to work out this for themselves.
No to GONU!
They're still trying to give advice, and making a complete horlicks of it.
Re-reading Boris's speech in the cold light of day the words which are sticking with me are "actively encouraged". What does "actively encouraged" mean - is it as much as euphemism for me as "working at home" is for some others?
I'm no fan of anyone being forced against their will to go to work and risk their life and that of their family.
Those who aren't well but are told by their company if they don't work they will be sacked (with the unsubtle reminder there are plenty out there to take their place) represent the worst of capitalism and the worst of us.
The clients with whom I am working on office re-configuration are at most looking at one third of their capacity being available so working at home (no qualification needed and it's insulting to add one) and virtual meetings for the majority for the foreseeable.
It'll be interesting to see if there is evidence of increased vehicular activity today - anecdotally and having done my walk early today to get my prescription, I can report the Barking Road very quiet and the buses are almost empty.
>Afternoon all
It's a bit early in the day to be calling it afternoon, judging by tasks I have completed so far.
"Am I allowed to sit on a bench with my sister if she has seen my Mum that morning"?
"What if my cat brushed past me on the way out the door and next door's dog was watching"?
"Can i drive to Tescos and then to the park, and what do i do with my shopping bags?"
FFS it's really not hard.
2 metres
Wash your hands
work from home if you can
Follow the guidelines your employer will have put in place
Use your common sense.
Seems the last one is beyond a depressingly large number of sheeple, and moreover they don't seem to think it is even acceptable as advice.
What is the message everyone is getting? You're allowed to do more than last week but not much more. That's enough
Uni students are, of course, probably OK if they are reading Classics or similar, but not if they're reading STEM subjects.
In a war, opposing plainly doesn't mean helping our enemies - it's entirely possible to oppose effectively by questioning the justification for having a war, and/or the effectiveness with which it is being fought without supporting the other side. Indeed, it is commonplace in wars for that to happen.
In a crisis it is, in many ways, MORE important to oppose, challenge and hold to account. There is more at stake and putting that kind of pressure on quite rightly makes the Government focus on areas where it is in fact weak and lacks robust answers (e.g. PPE in the care sector). Asking for them to go gently is, frankly, absurd.
In terms of being constructive, I think things like focusing on the care sector is constructive. I don't, however, expect an opposition which doesn't command a vast permanent civil service to come up with an incredibly detailed "shadow" plan in order to take it seriously. And indeed that has never been what has happened for oppositions of any complexion - even at elections, manifestos and policy documents are relatively thin and need some time to work up (oppositions don't produce vast bills and associated planning documents ready to be rolled out on day one).
If that answers most of the questions then it will look like it was a considered joined-up plan. If it riddled with ambiguity with one section contradicting another then it will confirm your view that it was cobbled together at the last minute.
Like DavidL I am growing increasingly concerned about the long-term economic impact of this and I have a genuine question for government supporters:-
Are the decisions to continue furlough and maintain much of the lockdown being taken in tandem with a clear plan as to how the public finances are going to be restored later or is that simply not a consideration right now?
If it's the latter I find that very scary indeed.
https://www.judiciary.uk/announcements/jury-trials-to-resume-this-month/
Does it say they are following Public Health England and Public Health Wales Guidelines? Wow does that mean that guidelines on working practices for Covid 19 are available online for anyone to look at to enable them to re-open their business. Or should everyone just keep saying that they are confused and that advice is not available so just keep paying Furlough.
On trains that are actually moving it seems different
https://twitter.com/PiEdmonds/status/1259803650161025026?s=20
Now it wants us to be the grown ups it has plainly and very powerfully indicated we are not?
And I think the limits on borrowing should be removed. In fact I think you should have complete power over taxes and spending. Do you disagree?
https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/h6nwhcsrrv/GMBResults_200511.pdf
Lots of focus on the public not thinking what is expected now is clear, but in fact only 10% answered "don't know" when asked whether the changes went too far. Which side by side make for curious reading.
4 years old can't go to school at the moment (unless child of a key worker). Furthermore, 4 year olds are at basically zero risk from other 4 year olds and in a primary school the number of adults is very low and there is evidence that transmission from young kids to adults doesn't occur (see Nordic countries, only one "outbreak" in a primary school, and it was teacher to teacher).
Furthermore, how many kids does a normal primary school have 100? 200? Basically there aren't many, and you should be able to space them out.
In comparison, a university campus, is basically a mini city. They are extremely high population density locations, packed with adults from 18 to 80. There is also all the associated services, staffed by adults, lots of admin, catering, health, cleaning, etc etc etc. The students live in shared accommodation among many, so if one gets it, they will quickly spread it around. In many locations they are also forced to use public transport to get around, as most unis have a no car or restricted car policy.
Lectures for many subjects consist of 100s of people all crammed together for hours on end. They are far higher density learning environments than a typical school. And as you walk around, you will come into close contact with 1000s of other people.
Young adults appear to be the group that are most likely to get it without knowing and transmit it onwards e.g. German Carnival episode. So although they aren't at particularly high risk, they interact with a huge number of adults who are.
https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1259786772386582528
Grown ups should make their own choices and live with the consequences, not wait for/blame the government.
"You've been good so far. If you continue to be good, you can play with some of your toys outside. If not, you'll have to stay indoors with no toys".
That was the sense and tone I got from the text.
I'm to be convinced this is less some great act of selfless responsibility from a public desperate to save the economy and more desperation from those unable or unwilling or for whom Sunak's furlough largesse is insufficient.
I expect some will have been texted by their companies, told they have to report to work and informed if they don't they will be considered to have quit and there are plenty of others able and willing to take their place. I'm afraid for some that is the reality of work and capitalism.
Basically, people feel compelled to give an answer. This sort of polling is useless.
As it happens, I've already done exactly that, but that's because I take my own view how I'm going to apply all this stuff anyway and I have no great confidence that these clowns know what they are doing, so why would I take what they advise as gospel?
I gave @SouthamObserver the same advice last night too.
Having said that, as per my previous post, I think "stay alert" could eventually come to mean - as far as the average punter is concerned - whatever the government wants us to think that it means. Just like "stay at home" didn't end up meaning, literally, "stay at home". My issue with "stay alert" is similar to the one you've flagged up though - that if it doesn't seem congruent with "stay at home", despite being cunningly worded to recall that slogan, there's a risk of "stay at home when possible" being diluted as a message when it is still a key part of the current phase. We will have to see how this all pans out, but I think a lot will rest on the government's message discipline and whether the creative part of its comms team can craft the kind of public information films and internet adverts that capture the complexity and nuance of the current phase's advice and manage to communicate a clear, consistent core message.
Good Lord, can you imagine the reaction if they said that?! Have you seen The Life of Brian?
Lib Dem-Labour alliance.
Odds on a Labour-Lib Dem coalition and having a reverse 2010, quite likely I would think
IMO the root cause of this is (i) lack of knowledge about the virus - and (ii) suspicion verging on certainty that track & trace at scale is beyond us.
I would hope that the decisions on furlough are being made with a focus on two things.
(1) Supporting the main policy of defeating the virus.
(2) Reducing the long-term damage to the economy.
The public finances will be much easier to repair if the use of the furlough scheme manages to keep the economic damage closer to 1% by the end of 2021 than 15%.
Oh, and those guidelines? Employers are waiting for details about those too.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is some leftfield Cummings idea to get the public doing just what they are - cautiously tiptoeing out of lockdown, without going too far.
I remember Portillo saying on the sadly departed This Week; the best way to get the public to do what you want them to do is to make them think it was their idea
Also some very odd lagging where scrolling is impossible, once comments are opened. First maybe 5 seconds of the comments loading, then maybe seconds 10-15 too?
2001 specification (ignoring workplace address responses):
https://www.nomisweb.co.uk/census/2011/QS701EW/view/2092957703?rows=cell&cols=rural_urban
2011 specification (working from home derived from workplace address):
https://www.nomisweb.co.uk/census/2011/QS703EW/view/2092957703?cols=measures
The latter is nearly double the former. You have to be really careful with expecting the public to give consistent responses.