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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The government needs to sort out the PPE issues or it will be

SystemSystem Posts: 12,169
edited April 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The government needs to sort out the PPE issues or it will be seen as wilfully incompetent, or worse

Coronavirus: Nurses should refuse to work if they aren't given PPE, new guidance says https://t.co/70HuL5cZIo

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    Not sure who is responsible for creating the Daily Mail bar charts....but they need sacking. Must be a Lib Dem.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    First. Thanks for the header, TSE.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    RobD said:

    First. Thanks for the header, TSE.

    Second first, I'll take it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    edited April 2020
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellthatsucks/comments/fzufea/french_nurses_show_off_their_high_quality_ppe/

    I would like Foxy to comment, if he is around...
  • ABZABZ Posts: 441
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Not sure who is responsible for creating the Daily Mail bar charts....but they need sacking. Must be a Lib Dem.

    It's also going to be the wrong number, since the UK-wide total uses the Scottish and Northern Irish numbers reported yesterday (at least if the last few days are anything to go by).
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Yes, completely agree. I don't understand why there hasn't been a public call to arms by the government like there was for ventilators and testing. There a loads of British companies who can manufacture PPE if properly incentivised or asked.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited April 2020
    Anyone who thinks this government isn’t wilfully incompetent hasn’t been paying attention. Prorogation and the Irish Backstop alone were conclusive. This is merely following a well established pattern.

    That’s slightly better than the Corbyn cultists, who are wilfully malign, stupid and incompetent, but not by a lot.
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    FPT
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Everyone feeling cheery?

    https://twitter.com/robinwigg/status/1249304690745126912?s=21

    Well, yes, it cheers me up that they appear to be taking it seriously, as opposed to the Panglossian ‘we must get back to normal soon’ bunch.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Not sure who is responsible for creating the Daily Mail bar charts....but they need sacking. Must be a Lib Dem.

    Misleading horse shit in the Daily Mail?

    I am shocked, shocked, I tell you....
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878
    I am curious to know where the fault for lack of PPE here lies, while certainly politicians should be doing a lot more to make it happen as far as I know the money is available. That therefore points to either procurement or distribution. I can imagine procurement being at fault because someone somewhere is sticking to non crisis procedures, or alternatively they keep getting outbid for masks.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Not sure who is responsible for creating the Daily Mail bar charts....but they need sacking. Must be a Lib Dem.

    Ignoring the poor bar chart, 710 looks positive but it is easter sunday so more than likely a big 'weekend' effect in there, more so than normal.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    MaxPB said:

    Yes, completely agree. I don't understand why there hasn't been a public call to arms by the government like there was for ventilators and testing. There a loads of British companies who can manufacture PPE if properly incentivised or asked.

    There was apparently, according to someone interviewed on R4 this morning, and a number of small firms responded without any reply from the Government.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Pagan2 said:

    I am curious to know where the fault for lack of PPE here lies, while certainly politicians should be doing a lot more to make it happen as far as I know the money is available. That therefore points to either procurement or distribution. I can imagine procurement being at fault because someone somewhere is sticking to non crisis procedures, or alternatively they keep getting outbid for masks.

    Doubt it is distribution. The Army have been running that iirc.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    ydoethur said:

    Anyone who thinks this government isn’t wilfully incompetent hasn’t been paying attention. Prorogation and the Irish Backstop alone were conclusive. This is merely following a well established pattern.

    That’s slightly better than the Corbyn cultists, who are wilfully malign, stupid and incompetent, but not by a lot.

    Wilfully incompetent when it comes to the lives of the people.

    Nobody was going to die because Boris Johnson's shameful prorogation.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    geoffw said:

    MaxPB said:

    Yes, completely agree. I don't understand why there hasn't been a public call to arms by the government like there was for ventilators and testing. There a loads of British companies who can manufacture PPE if properly incentivised or asked.

    There was apparently, according to someone interviewed on R4 this morning, and a number of small firms responded without any reply from the Government.
    My old school's technology department has been making face shields.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    "Why we shouldn’t censor Covid conspiracy theories
    David Icke must be free to air his nonsense about 5G.

    Tom Slater"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/04/10/why-we-shouldnt-censor-covid-conspiracy-theories/
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edited April 2020
    Much as I appreciate Tom Newton Dunn's call to transparency, I have to disagree on two levels:

    1. Though I know he doesn't mean this interpretation, saying 'Transparancy is all now' and 'Now is not the time [to be evasive]' rather suggests that normally the actions of government aren't important enough for honesty to be the best policy. Defence, Law and Order, NHS funding, and more are all life and death decisions in normal times too. The media should demand, and reward, transparency at all times. Calls for it now should avoid suggesting it is needed due to the current circumstances.

    2. It's all well and good to say 'The transparent prosper, the evasive don't' but Boris Johnson is PM and not because he is the most honest man in politics.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    rottenborough said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I am curious to know where the fault for lack of PPE here lies, while certainly politicians should be doing a lot more to make it happen as far as I know the money is available. That therefore points to either procurement or distribution. I can imagine procurement being at fault because someone somewhere is sticking to non crisis procedures, or alternatively they keep getting outbid for masks.

    Doubt it is distribution. The Army have been running that iirc.
    It depends on which level of distribution you are talking about?

    - manufacturer to main warehouse.
    - main warehouse to satellite store.
    - satellite store to hospital.
    - hospital store to ward.

    One thing is absolutely certain - it's not manufacturers Amazoning boxes of PPE to Wards.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1249044473411035141
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    Not just PPE but testing also.

    There should be sufficient manufacturing and scientific resources in this country for these problems to be solved.

    But the likes of Whitty and Vallance are proving to be incompetent.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    edited April 2020
    geoffw said:

    MaxPB said:

    Yes, completely agree. I don't understand why there hasn't been a public call to arms by the government like there was for ventilators and testing. There a loads of British companies who can manufacture PPE if properly incentivised or asked.

    There was apparently, according to someone interviewed on R4 this morning, and a number of small firms responded without any reply from the Government.
    That is good, but this isn't something large and complex like ventilators. Those manufacturers should be put in touch with the NHS trusts, who have the money for this stuff, and get some orders placed. The Government should not be in charge of masks - mainly because they wouldn't do a good job.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    Here is HMG's latest position on PPE, published 10/4 aka Good Friday.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-sets-out-plan-for-national-effort-on-ppe

    As you can see everything is in hand and there is a new website written by the army that will be launched in the next few weeks.

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Quincel said:

    Much as I appreciate Tom Newton Dunn's call to transparency, I have to disagree on two levels:

    1. Though I know he doesn't mean this interpretation, saying 'Transparancy is all now' and 'Now is not the time [to be evasive]' rather suggests that normally the actions of government aren't important enough for honesty to be the best policy. Defence, Law and Order, NHS funding, and more are all life and death decisions in normal times too. The media should demand, and reward, transparency at all times. Calls for it now should avoid suggesting it is needed due to the current circumstances.

    2. It's all well and good to say 'The transparent prosper, the evasive don't' but Boris Johnson is PM and not because he is the most honest man in politics.

    Only a dishonest person would say honesty is the best policy.
  • DensparkDenspark Posts: 68
    Pagan2 said:

    I am curious to know where the fault for lack of PPE here lies, while certainly politicians should be doing a lot more to make it happen as far as I know the money is available. That therefore points to either procurement or distribution. I can imagine procurement being at fault because someone somewhere is sticking to non crisis procedures, or alternatively they keep getting outbid for masks.

    Wouldnt be surprised if it's people sticking to 'normal' procedures.

    I was having a zoom drink the other night with a friend of mine who works for a university arts department. He's offered to use his departments 3d printers to make some PPE masks etc for non hospital health organisations (cancer charities etc).

    His management wont let him go on site until 'proper' risk assessments are performed even though he'd be the only person in the building.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    https://twitter.com/sdonnan/status/1249167057498845185
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    edited April 2020
    What's the evidence for asserting the UK may be the worst-affected country in Europe?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    Yes PPE is important but as far as I can see most countries are also struggling to get enough for healthcare staff.

    What really marks countries like Germany and South Korea out as having a relatively low level of Covid 19 cases and deaths per head is mass testing for it and that is what the Government needs to expand above all
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    Pulpstar said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Not sure who is responsible for creating the Daily Mail bar charts....but they need sacking. Must be a Lib Dem.

    Ignoring the poor bar chart, 710 looks positive but it is easter sunday so more than likely a big 'weekend' effect in there, more so than normal.
    How insulting, a lib dem would never work for the Daily Fail.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    edited April 2020
    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1249044473411035141

    Perhaps as with the Navy secretary and the sailors of the USS T. Roosevelt, Trump will dispatch some underling to rant at the US public on live tv.

    "I understand you love the guy. It's good that you love him. But you're not required to love him."
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Not sure who is responsible for creating the Daily Mail bar charts....but they need sacking. Must be a Lib Dem.

    spectacular.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1249044473411035141

    Being more popular than President Trump might be part of the problem, so dysfunctional is American and particularly GOP politics these days.

    It would never happen here. Just imagine the outcry if, say, Mo Mowlam were sacked for getting a longer standing ovation than Tony Blair!
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    HYUFD said:

    Yes PPE is important but as far as I can see most countries are also struggling to get enough for healthcare staff.

    What really marks countries like Germany and South Korea out as having a relatively low level of Covid 19 cases and deaths per head is mass testing for it and that is what the Government needs to expand above all

    The WHO have been saying "hunt the virus". I think they mean find who's had or has it, and contact trace.
    You need to test to do that.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    I see after this initial prediction fell apart on the first day their revised prediction then fell apart on the first day:

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    Andy_JS said:

    What's the evidence for asserting the UK may be the worst-affected country in Europe?

    I have come to the conclusion that its basically because we're the second or third most populous (tied to within a million with France). Genuinely retard-level use of statistics.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    edited April 2020
    Denspark said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I am curious to know where the fault for lack of PPE here lies, while certainly politicians should be doing a lot more to make it happen as far as I know the money is available. That therefore points to either procurement or distribution. I can imagine procurement being at fault because someone somewhere is sticking to non crisis procedures, or alternatively they keep getting outbid for masks.

    Wouldnt be surprised if it's people sticking to 'normal' procedures.

    I was having a zoom drink the other night with a friend of mine who works for a university arts department. He's offered to use his departments 3d printers to make some PPE masks etc for non hospital health organisations (cancer charities etc).

    His management wont let him go on site until 'proper' risk assessments are performed even though he'd be the only person in the building.
    Do you remember the occasion that the police physically prevented ambulance crews going to the aid of victims of a shooter in the UK, because a risk assessment hadn't been performed? At least one person bled to death as a result.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    https://twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1249327800743575553?s=21
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/1249044473411035141

    Being more popular than President Trump might be part of the problem, so dysfunctional is American and particularly GOP politics these days.

    It would never happen here. Just imagine the outcry if, say, Mo Mowlam were sacked for getting a longer standing ovation than Tony Blair!
    That's one of those hoary old myths, she was transferred out of the Northern Ireland Office because her relationships with the UUP had become non-existent.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Andy_JS said:

    What's the evidence for asserting the UK may be the worst-affected country in Europe?

    There is none. Spain, Italy, Belgium and others are far worse than UK (so far).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    edited April 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    What's the evidence for asserting the UK may be the worst-affected country in Europe?

    The lack of testing, Sir Jeremy Farrar advised the German government to test, test, test, and they listened to him.

    Now compare our stats to Germany's?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    another_richard said:

    I see after this initial prediction fell apart on the first day their revised prediction then fell apart on the first day:

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom

    There model is so broken. Not just the UK, but look at the US, the uncertainly range of deaths for tomorrow is absolutely enormous. There is no way predicting a day ahead should the range of possible deaths go from as little as 500 to over 5,500.

    It is actually the opposite way around to how a model should be, you should be more confident about your prediction for tomorrow than you are for week down the line.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    another_richard said:

    I see after this initial prediction fell apart on the first day their revised prediction then fell apart on the first day:

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom

    There model is so broken. Not just the UK, but look at the US, the uncertainly range of deaths for tomorrow is absolutely enormous. There is no way predicting a day ahead should the range of possible death go from as little as 500 to over 5,500.
    They have corrected the ICU count - a bit.

    They are still claiming that the NHS has 17K hospital beds available.....
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's the evidence for asserting the UK may be the worst-affected country in Europe?

    The lack of testing, Sir Jeremy Farrar advised the German government to test, test, test, and they listened to him.

    Now compare our stats to Germany's?
    ? That may evidence that we are worsely affected than Germany, but the question was refering to the whole of Europe..
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Funny how coincidences can occur sometimes. Watching the Boris video naming one of the nurses who treated him as Luis from Portugal, near Porto, whilst readin ga book containing a portuguese character named Luis from Porto.

    I suppose it is a fairly common name in fairness.
    BannedinnParis said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's the evidence for asserting the UK may be the worst-affected country in Europe?

    I have come to the conclusion that its basically because we're the second or third most populous (tied to within a million with France). Genuinely retard-level use of statistics.
    I hope that is all that it is, in terms of being near the worst.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    Pulpstar said:

    geoffw said:

    MaxPB said:

    Yes, completely agree. I don't understand why there hasn't been a public call to arms by the government like there was for ventilators and testing. There a loads of British companies who can manufacture PPE if properly incentivised or asked.

    There was apparently, according to someone interviewed on R4 this morning, and a number of small firms responded without any reply from the Government.
    My old school's technology department has been making face shields.
    Here is a 13-minute video from LTT showing the 3d-printing of 300 face shields a day, and how easily it was set up although, as Linus says, ideally you'd use injection moulding to knock out thousands an hour.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgPj6e3jtz0
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    Stocky said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's the evidence for asserting the UK may be the worst-affected country in Europe?

    The lack of testing, Sir Jeremy Farrar advised the German government to test, test, test, and they listened to him.

    Now compare our stats to Germany's?
    ? That may evidence that we are worsely affected than Germany, but the question was refering to the whole of Europe..
    If you click the link you'll see the interview where he says we will be one of the worst, if not the worst.

    So if our nurses refuse to deal with Covid-19 patients due to a lack of PPE you can see why we become Europe's worst.

    IIRC the Italians didn't down tools like that.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Churchill's incompetence helped turn Norway into a disaster, yet he went on to become Prime Minister.

    Re PPE what are the manufacturing times for the kit, where is it sourced from? What material is needed to make it? How much is made outside/inside the UK? Is it all one use only?

    Which trusts are short of PPE, which ones are not? Who is responsible for procurement and distribution?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's the evidence for asserting the UK may be the worst-affected country in Europe?

    There is none. Spain, Italy, Belgium and others are far worse than UK (so far).
    "Followed the Science and ended up with the worst or one of the worst outcomes in Europe"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52261859
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    If the Government's reputation continues to be damaged by news of PPE shortages then I doubt that will do for the lockdown. You'd have thought that, if anything, it would incentivize people to be more cautious, if they're afraid that medical staff might refuse treatment and leave them to die for want of the right equipment.

    The key threat to the lockdown continues to be the lack of either a published strategy or a timetable (even a very vague one) for easing it - not necessarily because people are recklessly impatient but because we all need hope that it won't drag on forever. The great mass of the population - especially young people, who are least at risk from the disease and also account for the greatest proportion of those made unemployed by this disaster - have shown great forbearance so far, but cannot and should not be expected to put up with perpetual incarceration.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's the evidence for asserting the UK may be the worst-affected country in Europe?

    The lack of testing, Sir Jeremy Farrar advised the German government to test, test, test, and they listened to him.

    Now compare our stats to Germany's?
    Has anybody ever seen me and TSE in the same room?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    "I agree with Nick"...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    That Boris video is very good.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    edited April 2020
    bigjohnowls said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's the evidence for asserting the UK may be the worst-affected country in Europe?

    The lack of testing, Sir Jeremy Farrar advised the German government to test, test, test, and they listened to him.

    Now compare our stats to Germany's?
    Has anybody ever seen me and TSE in the same room?
    Yes, several PBers did at a meet up in Yorkshire, or was it London?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    dr_spyn said:

    Churchill's incompetence helped turn Norway into a disaster, yet he went on to become Prime Minister.

    Re PPE what are the manufacturing times for the kit, where is it sourced from? What material is needed to make it? How much is made outside/inside the UK? Is it all one use only?

    Which trusts are short of PPE, which ones are not? Who is responsible for procurement and distribution?

    Piss poor on the part of both politicians and media that this has never been explained.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    https://twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    Very well done, a well-pitched speech, emotional. Thanking the nurses by name. He looks OK, but needs some smaller clothes. Jacket looks a tad baggy, face is drawn.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's the evidence for asserting the UK may be the worst-affected country in Europe?

    The lack of testing, Sir Jeremy Farrar advised the German government to test, test, test, and they listened to him.

    Now compare our stats to Germany's?
    Would it be better if they did not listen, or did but have been unable to do act so?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    dr_spyn said:

    Churchill's incompetence helped turn Norway into a disaster, yet he went on to become Prime Minister.

    Re PPE what are the manufacturing times for the kit, where is it sourced from? What material is needed to make it? How much is made outside/inside the UK? Is it all one use only?

    Which trusts are short of PPE, which ones are not? Who is responsible for procurement and distribution?

    Only one place on earth to get gowns - China

    PB Tory master strategists would have had us burn that bridge weeks ago.

    Just saying.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    edited April 2020
    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    https://twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    Lucky none was called old Nick.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    kle4 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's the evidence for asserting the UK may be the worst-affected country in Europe?

    The lack of testing, Sir Jeremy Farrar advised the German government to test, test, test, and they listened to him.

    Now compare our stats to Germany's?
    Would it be better if they did not listen, or did but have been unable to do act so?
    The inevitable inquiry in to this will be fascinating.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Stocky said:

    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    https://twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    Very well done, a well-pitched speech, emotional. Thanking the nurses by name. He looks OK, but needs some smaller clothes. Jacket looks a tad baggy, face is drawn.
    Not sure I would recommend ICU / pneumonia over weight watchers...I lost a stone in 10 days when I had it a couple of years ago.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    Nigelb said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Churchill's incompetence helped turn Norway into a disaster, yet he went on to become Prime Minister.

    Re PPE what are the manufacturing times for the kit, where is it sourced from? What material is needed to make it? How much is made outside/inside the UK? Is it all one use only?

    Which trusts are short of PPE, which ones are not? Who is responsible for procurement and distribution?

    Piss poor on the part of both politicians and media that this has never been explained.
    But we have been informed by political experts that detailed questions are bad.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Where did we go wrong?

    When WHO said test test test our Government thought that meant do 3 a day!!

    Cue BigG to say its all so easy BJO
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's the evidence for asserting the UK may be the worst-affected country in Europe?

    The lack of testing, Sir Jeremy Farrar advised the German government to test, test, test, and they listened to him.

    Now compare our stats to Germany's?
    Has anybody ever seen me and TSE in the same room?
    Yes, several PBers did at a meet up in Yorkshire, or was it London?
    Shh
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    Nigelb said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Churchill's incompetence helped turn Norway into a disaster, yet he went on to become Prime Minister.

    Re PPE what are the manufacturing times for the kit, where is it sourced from? What material is needed to make it? How much is made outside/inside the UK? Is it all one use only?

    Which trusts are short of PPE, which ones are not? Who is responsible for procurement and distribution?

    Piss poor on the part of both politicians and media that this has never been explained.
    Neither our politicians nor our media do attention to detail.

    They prefer posturing rather than sorting out the mundane.

    But its the mundane which is vital here.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Stocky said:

    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    https://twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    Very well done, a well-pitched speech, emotional. Thanking the nurses by name. He looks OK, but needs some smaller clothes. Jacket looks a tad baggy, face is drawn.
    Agreed right tone from Boris.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    FPT
    Charles said:

    » show previous quotes
    I guess you don’t like oppositions asking questions?

    They are not asking questions, he knows well that they are supporting everybody they can. He is grandstanding with a few disgruntled unionists who want a bigger slice of the pie, greedy gits. He should not be asking his questions via a newspaper , why did he not ask it at FM' questions on Thursday. He got his arse reamed there as well as he does every week. A clown devoid of any use or sense, his only cry is no referendum. Oh to actually have an opposition.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    kle4 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's the evidence for asserting the UK may be the worst-affected country in Europe?

    The lack of testing, Sir Jeremy Farrar advised the German government to test, test, test, and they listened to him.

    Now compare our stats to Germany's?
    Would it be better if they did not listen, or did but have been unable to do act so?
    The inevitable inquiry in to this will be fascinating.
    As will be the inquiry into the number of inquiries whose reports are locked in the Downing Street safe.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    FPT
    TOPPING said:

    » show previous quotes
    Malc first I hope you are all recovering.

    And secondly, I don't think anyone has yet managed to repeal the law of comparative advantage.

    Hello Topping, wife is not too bad considering , cannot get further treatment given the state of things at present but lucky to be home before it all went Pete Tong. Thanks for asking.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    another_richard said:

    Nigelb said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Churchill's incompetence helped turn Norway into a disaster, yet he went on to become Prime Minister.

    Re PPE what are the manufacturing times for the kit, where is it sourced from? What material is needed to make it? How much is made outside/inside the UK? Is it all one use only?

    Which trusts are short of PPE, which ones are not? Who is responsible for procurement and distribution?

    Piss poor on the part of both politicians and media that this has never been explained.
    Neither our politicians nor our media do attention to detail.

    They prefer posturing rather than sorting out the mundane.

    But its the mundane which is vital here.
    Exactly -

    1) How many hospitals are reporting shortage of PPE?
    2) Which PPE are they short of?
    3) How big are the shortfalls?
    4) What are the sources of PPE at the moment and in the future (planned) by category?
  • DensparkDenspark Posts: 68
    another_richard said:

    I see after this initial prediction fell apart on the first day their revised prediction then fell apart on the first day:

    https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom

    they're updating tomorrow apparently, so it'll be interesting to see what figure their random number generator spits out this time.

    last time they updated , with 3 days of extra data , they trebled the netherlands predicted deaths.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Malmesbury said:

    Nigelb said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Churchill's incompetence helped turn Norway into a disaster, yet he went on to become Prime Minister.

    Re PPE what are the manufacturing times for the kit, where is it sourced from? What material is needed to make it? How much is made outside/inside the UK? Is it all one use only?

    Which trusts are short of PPE, which ones are not? Who is responsible for procurement and distribution?

    Piss poor on the part of both politicians and media that this has never been explained.
    But we have been informed by political experts that detailed questions are bad.
    Include them in the piss poor category, then.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    https://twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    Yes of all the days to rise up again Easter Sunday was surely the day for him to do it
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    eadric said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Stocky said:

    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    https://twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    Very well done, a well-pitched speech, emotional. Thanking the nurses by name. He looks OK, but needs some smaller clothes. Jacket looks a tad baggy, face is drawn.
    Not sure I would recommend ICU / pneumonia over weight watchers...I lost a stone in 10 days when I had it a couple of years ago.
    He looks exactly as you would expect a man to look, who had a brush with death. He needs to go away and lie down for a fortnight. And very slowly go back to work’

    There are already nutters on twitter saying his reappearance means it was all a hoax
    Given the amount of weight he looks to have lost it’s pretty clear that he’s been put through the ringer in the last week.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    bigjohnowls said:

    Where did we go wrong?

    When WHO said test test test our Government thought that meant do 3 a day!!

    Cue BigG to say its all so easy BJO

    Do we actually know who is in charge of UK testing ?

    Or is it the usual case of vague responsibility and lack of leadership.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's the evidence for asserting the UK may be the worst-affected country in Europe?

    The lack of testing, Sir Jeremy Farrar advised the German government to test, test, test, and they listened to him.

    Now compare our stats to Germany's?
    Has anybody ever seen me and TSE in the same room?
    Yes, several PBers did at a meet up in Yorkshire, or was it London?
    We've done both.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Here is HMG's latest position on PPE, published 10/4 aka Good Friday.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-sets-out-plan-for-national-effort-on-ppe

    As you can see everything is in hand and there is a new website written by the army that will be launched in the next few weeks.

    That is great things will be better in a month or so, you have reassured us they are doing a great job
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    737 UK wide Covid related deaths.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    Stocky said:

    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    https://twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    Very well done, a well-pitched speech, emotional. Thanking the nurses by name. He looks OK, but needs some smaller clothes. Jacket looks a tad baggy, face is drawn.
    ‪He is unquestionably heartfelt and sincere. I hope it indicates some learning by experience. If so, the dedication, professionalism and sheer kindness of Jenny, Luís and all the other magnificent members of our multinational NHS might have saved more than a life. ‬

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    https://twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    Yes of all the days to rise up again Easter Sunday was surely the day for him to do it
    It is vomit inducing , he has two nurses round the clock yet the plebs are lucky if they get one for 6-8 patients. Was not much wrong with him if he only had a couple of days in hospital that is for sure.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's the evidence for asserting the UK may be the worst-affected country in Europe?

    There is none. Spain, Italy, Belgium and others are far worse than UK (so far).
    Belgium's deaths are genuinely sobering - 581 last announcement in a population of 11 million. Scale that to population of UK by multiplying by 6.

    If they're using that shitehawk model, or not scaling by population, then I think its safe to ignore them.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Being more popular than President Trump might be part of the problem, so dysfunctional is American and particularly GOP politics these days.

    It would never happen here. Just imagine the outcry if, say, Mo Mowlam were sacked for getting a longer standing ovation than Tony Blair!

    I think Fauci will be OK because he is short. Trump likes that.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    TOPPING said:

    » show previous quotes
    Malc first I hope you are all recovering.

    And secondly, I don't think anyone has yet managed to repeal the law of comparative advantage.

    Hello Topping, wife is not too bad considering , cannot get further treatment given the state of things at present but lucky to be home before it all went Pete Tong. Thanks for asking.

    Glad to hear.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    eadric said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Stocky said:

    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    https://twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    Very well done, a well-pitched speech, emotional. Thanking the nurses by name. He looks OK, but needs some smaller clothes. Jacket looks a tad baggy, face is drawn.
    Not sure I would recommend ICU / pneumonia over weight watchers...I lost a stone in 10 days when I had it a couple of years ago.
    He looks exactly as you would expect a man to look, who had a brush with death. He needs to go away and lie down for a fortnight. And very slowly go back to work’

    There are already nutters on twitter saying his reappearance means it was all a hoax
    I doubt they are nutters, how many are in and out in 2 days with this.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    The other thing about that Johnson video is that it makes very clear we were not being told the full truth about just how bad he was. If he hadn’t pulled through that may have become a very big problem.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1249328998208942080?s=20
    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1249346639296430082?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1249346641997504514?s=20
    https://twitter.com/IsraeliPM/status/1249324178689404929?s=20
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    https://twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    Yes of all the days to rise up again Easter Sunday was surely the day for him to do it
    It is vomit inducing , he has two nurses round the clock yet the plebs are lucky if they get one for 6-8 patients. Was not much wrong with him if he only had a couple of days in hospital that is for sure.
    I think the reality probably lies somewhere between the second resurrection hyperbole, and your rather more cynical take on things, malcolm.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    https://twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    Yes of all the days to rise up again Easter Sunday was surely the day for him to do it
    It is vomit inducing , he has two nurses round the clock yet the plebs are lucky if they get one for 6-8 patients. Was not much wrong with him if he only had a couple of days in hospital that is for sure.
    -1

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,878
    In a way I often feel sorry for politicians of any party. They get held to account sometimes for things beyond their control. Seen the same in private companies.

    It is one thing to make money available and issue the order to do something, getting it to actually happen though can be a frustrating experience when you are dealing with a beaurocracy that almost seems at times hellbent on not doing something. Certainly had that experience in firms for example when trying to order a laptop. Funding is agreed order is raised then its shunted back because it isn't like the laptops they give normal office staff and on and on it goes.

    Sometimes getting the funding in place and saying make it happen is simpler than it sounds. Not saying that is the case here necessarily which is why I wondered earlier whereabouts the holdup is.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    https://twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    Boris!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    737 UK wide Covid related deaths.

    200 down from yesterday, sad news for the relatives but UK curve starting to flatten which is good news
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    malcolmg said:

    eadric said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Stocky said:

    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    https://twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    Very well done, a well-pitched speech, emotional. Thanking the nurses by name. He looks OK, but needs some smaller clothes. Jacket looks a tad baggy, face is drawn.
    Not sure I would recommend ICU / pneumonia over weight watchers...I lost a stone in 10 days when I had it a couple of years ago.
    He looks exactly as you would expect a man to look, who had a brush with death. He needs to go away and lie down for a fortnight. And very slowly go back to work’

    There are already nutters on twitter saying his reappearance means it was all a hoax
    I doubt they are nutters, how many are in and out in 2 days with this.
    Malc, that's daft.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1249328998208942080?s=20
    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1249346639296430082?s=20

    Andrew Adonis is a prick.

    China is currently our only way of mitigating our PPE Gowns and testing crises and he agrees with PB Tory master strategists that we should be cutting lifelines
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    HYUFD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    737 UK wide Covid related deaths.

    200 down from yesterday, sad news for the relatives but UK curve starting to flatten which is good news
    Its the weekend

    Let us hope this is continued but it may not be.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    geoffw said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    https://twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    Yes of all the days to rise up again Easter Sunday was surely the day for him to do it
    It is vomit inducing , he has two nurses round the clock yet the plebs are lucky if they get one for 6-8 patients. Was not much wrong with him if he only had a couple of days in hospital that is for sure.
    -1

    Ffs Malcy
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    https://twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    Yes of all the days to rise up again Easter Sunday was surely the day for him to do it
    It is vomit inducing , he has two nurses round the clock yet the plebs are lucky if they get one for 6-8 patients. Was not much wrong with him if he only had a couple of days in hospital that is for sure.
    I think the reality probably lies somewhere between the second resurrection hyperbole, and your rather more cynical take on things, malcolm.
    Fat lad bucks the odds with the help of above average care?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    bigjohnowls said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1249328998208942080?s=20
    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1249346639296430082?s=20

    Andrew Adonis is a prick.

    China is currently our only way of mitigating our PPE Gowns and testing crises and he agrees with PB Tory master strategists that we should be cutting lifelines
    Needs must at the moment and we shouldn't refuse PPE from anywhere. At the same time we should develop a strategic national reserve to manufacture our own stuff.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    Pagan2 said:

    In a way I often feel sorry for politicians of any party. They get held to account sometimes for things beyond their control. Seen the same in private companies.

    It is one thing to make money available and issue the order to do something, getting it to actually happen though can be a frustrating experience when you are dealing with a beaurocracy that almost seems at times hellbent on not doing something. Certainly had that experience in firms for example when trying to order a laptop. Funding is agreed order is raised then its shunted back because it isn't like the laptops they give normal office staff and on and on it goes.

    Sometimes getting the funding in place and saying make it happen is simpler than it sounds. Not saying that is the case here necessarily which is why I wondered earlier whereabouts the holdup is.

    Indeed.

    And one thing bureaucracies don't like is change as it is a threat.

    In particular they don't like losing control of the process by going outside of the system.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Impressive from Johnson. Be interesting to see how near-death changes him.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    malcolmg said:

    eadric said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Stocky said:

    eadric said:

    Boris will be an absolute folk hero now. The totemic leader who beat the bug. The Easter king, returned from the tomb

    https://twitter.com/borisjohnson/status/1249336590482243585?s=21

    Very well done, a well-pitched speech, emotional. Thanking the nurses by name. He looks OK, but needs some smaller clothes. Jacket looks a tad baggy, face is drawn.
    Not sure I would recommend ICU / pneumonia over weight watchers...I lost a stone in 10 days when I had it a couple of years ago.
    He looks exactly as you would expect a man to look, who had a brush with death. He needs to go away and lie down for a fortnight. And very slowly go back to work’

    There are already nutters on twitter saying his reappearance means it was all a hoax
    I doubt they are nutters, how many are in and out in 2 days with this.
    Malc, that's daft.
    he is milking it
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    bigjohnowls said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1249328998208942080?s=20
    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1249346639296430082?s=20

    Andrew Adonis is a prick.

    China is currently our only way of mitigating our PPE Gowns and testing crises and he agrees with PB Tory master strategists that we should be cutting lifelines
    No it isn't. PPE is a textile/seamstress product. It can be made easily in the UK with the right patterns, and even more easily and cheaply in India if we want to go that route.
This discussion has been closed.